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Do you remember the big freak out over oil wells being flooded in Colorado? I just unlinked to the most egregious post on the subject because I didn't want to get distracted by specific posts or people.

I remember it because there were propaganda types posts and people who should know better were reccing them. By propaganda I mean framing an accusation as a question or accusations of a cover up because no one was reporting on the non event. Let me give you an example of how to put forth a totally unsourced bogus idea by framing it as a question.  

Breaking! Has Elizabeth Warren chosen Sarah Pallin as her VP choice????? Just asking a question he he. or Did Warren Buffet father an illegitimate child with a space alien??? Why is the media silent on this????? Quality environmental writing.

I also remember the bogus story because the other day a Kossack was smack talking the people of my county about it.

During the flooding in September the water that sept downstream damaged a lot of tracking wells in Weld county, I'm not sure how that got cleaned up or if it did. Let's just say that folks in Weld are often low info humanoids.
You know it's true, we do have some low info folks here of the teahadist persuasion, but to be perfectly f***g honest we on the left have our fair share too.


Wiki Hippy

Recent water samples from flood-affected rivers and streams in Colorado show no evidence of oil and gas contamination, but several rivers do show high levels of E. coli, the Water Quality Control Division of the Colorado Department of Public Health and Environment announced Tuesday.
Huffpo

And who the heck are the "Water Quality Control Division of the Colorado Department of Public Health and Environment" (when they're at home) I hear you ask? Koch brothers front group? Bernie Sanders' right wing unkle that no one talks about? No, actually they are the people who test water in our state to see if it's polluted.

Altogether they figure about 43,000 gallons of oil and 18,000 gallons of fracking fluid got into the water, in other words too small an amount to be detectible. For comparison just under 300,000,000 gallons of raw and partially treated sewage was spilled into our water. Someone is obviously full of shit.

"Although much attention was focused on spills from oil and gas operations, it is reassuring the sampling shows no evidence of oil and gas pollutants," Colorado Department of Public Health and Environment chief medical officer Dr. Larry Wolk said.
Denver Post

I guess what is most galling is that in the immediate aftermath of the flood a lot of people donated and pulled together to help neighbors save the junk in their cellars or clear roads, find lost kittens, or whatever. At the same time some misguided jerks were attempting to make a media shitstorm over something that obviously didn't happen. What a bunch of losers. They could have been out with a shovel instead of taking photos of some farmers fuel tank afloat with a sheen.

The next time you read a title to a news story phrased as a question sprinkle on some healthy skepticism. If it's anything to do with fracking, plain out don't believe it. Wait until you hear from a reputable source and even then wait for the scientific community to weigh in.

Beyond the pain in the butt of dishonest stories, this type of lying does harm to all other aspects of environmentalism. What is John Q public to think the next time he is told there are issues to do with coal power generation or our use of gas guzzling cars to sit in traffic jams? He might well believe it is just more BS from environmentalists.

As sorry as these home grown fractivists are their big brothers and sisters in the donations community were similarly feeding at the poutrage trough. In Googling I came on similar articles from Grist, NRDC, Earthfirst, etc. Some of the more traditional dead tree media printed the follow up, others had moved on, story over.

This all leads me to question how damaging fracking is. For a place that is in the midst of massive fracking our town sure has suffered no ill effects. Tests at the local elementary showed increased air pollution at 9 and 3:30 when the drive up area to get kids is backed up with super sized SUVs. A derrick was set up less than 400 yards away, you could see people tripping pipe.

Biggest fracking pollution comes from the mouths of fractivists in the form of hot air.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (16+ / 0-)

    “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

    by ban nock on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 04:41:20 AM PST

  •  Good diary (4+ / 0-)

    But at the end you are guilty of the same rhetoric you identified earlier in the article.

    This all leads me to question how damaging fracking is.
    Earlier:
    By propaganda I mean framing an accusation as a question or accusations of a cover up because no one was reporting on the non event.
    We should be calling for the EPA to release its study so that data can be published and conclusions be drawn.

    Still a good diary.

    •  except that I really don't know the answer (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      flowerfarmer, 43north, IndieGuy, 6412093

      A couple weeks ago I went to wiki, my trusted source ;-)

      There was a ton of technical fluff to wade through, but my take away was that almost all wells drilled in the US are fracked now. There were incidents in PA of water well contaminations.

      It's hard for the lay person to find good sources. Big newspapers are often not so great on controversial issues. Similarly online sources.

      “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

      by ban nock on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 05:15:14 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Raw sewage is not full of carcinogens. Every year (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    FishOutofWater, tle

    home mechanics are reminded to properly dispose of used motor oil since a single quart would pollute an enormous amount of potable water supply. Unrefined oil and fracking fluids are worse and more toxic than used motor oil.

    Altogether they figure about 43,000 gallons of oil and 18,000 gallons of fracking fluid got into the water, in other words too small an amount to be detectible. For comparison just under 300,000,000 gallons of raw and partially treated sewage was spilled into our water. Someone is obviously full of shit.
    I agree. Someone is full of shit.

    Life is just a bowl of Cherries, that stain your hands and clothes and have pits that break your teeth.

    by OHdog on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 05:08:17 AM PST

    •  It's ok that I used the photo from the meatup (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      watercarrier4diogenes

      right?

      “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

      by ban nock on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 05:27:49 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Actually, all sewerage is full of contaminants. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      IndieGuy, ban nock, Mother Shipper

      Household chemicals, disposed-of and excreted pharmaceuticals, rinsed byproducts of laundering, residue of paint, heavy metals including mercury and lead.

      Check out OMRI and the NOP, and see if any municipal sewerage products can be applied to food crops for human consumption.
      The answer is no, as the contaminants are excessive, and can not be removed easily.

  •  Fracking involves huge numbers of wells (9+ / 0-)

    Even if only 1% of the wells have cement failure problems, there's a large risk of water contamination if there are 10,000 wells. Old style gas wells that tapped reservoirs had fewer wells and more volume of gas extracted over the lifetime of the well.

    I'm glad you and your family are doing well living near gas production wells, but don't assume everyone who is having problems is making up stories.

    I agree that the gazillion tons of feedlot shit that got into Colorado's water was probably a lot more dangerous than the relatively small volume of contaminants from the fracking wells, based on the report you cite.

    Drink up.

    look for my eSci diary series Thursday evening.

    by FishOutofWater on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 05:09:45 AM PST

    •  You might want to read the links (0+ / 0-)
      The water quality division also looked at feed lots and dairies in the flood zone. "Remarkably, those fared pretty well," Gunderson said
      I know people hate feedlot raised beef, well, except all those people that love to eat it, but the most dangerous pollution really was sewage out of Boulder. (deleted nasty joke about boulder people)

      Our water comes by pipe from far up in the mountains and the source is protected even from hiking. I'm among the 1% who have a water well but we use it for irrigation only. Living on top of a 100 year old coal mine doesn't make for great drinking water.

      I'm not at all sure how many people are adversely affected by fracking. It mostly does seem to affect the affluent a lot more. The kinds of folks into organic banana mush baby food and what not.

      “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

      by ban nock on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 05:44:05 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Brave. (3+ / 0-)

    Rec'd for the last line.

  •  Fracking, when everything goes (10+ / 0-)

    perfectly right, produces natural gas, which is both bad (it is a hydrocarbon) and good (it has half the CO2 than coal). But when fracking goes bad, you can have well water contamination (permanent), or leakage of methane into the atmosphere (temporary), or myriad other problems. So if you frack 1,000 towns, some are going to be left badly damaged, most will be just fine, and hydrocarbon emissions overall will be lower than if you didn't do it.

    Thus there is no right answer on fracking, even for the most environmentally conscious of us.

  •  I read that the wells were closed (9+ / 0-)

    or capped or whatever they call it, before the floods, and that most of the chemical pollution came form toppled storage tanks and the like.

    But I live in Pennsylvania where there have been hundreds of violations, confirmed pollution, and the bountiful forested mountains are being cut into checkerboards and pretty much the whole idea of "Penn's Woods" is being disrespected, undoing decades of hunting, fishing, and tourism promotion, major forestry management awards, restoration of mining and clearcut areas, and Susquehanna/Chesapeake Bay cleanup efforts.

    When you treat all "fracktivists" as ridiculous over-reactionaries, you do a disservice to serious science because you've automatically dismissed any evidence that opponents of fracking could possibly be right. There are real risks involved, and even if you close your eyes to them, they will still exist.

    "Fracktivists" are trying to save for your children and theirs the opportunity to live the kind of life that you yourself claim to cherish.

    Here, favorite hunting grounds and hiking trails are being disrupted by fracking operations and pipelines. It is still a beautiful state, but it will remain so only if we are vigilant.

    •  I've been googling and can't find any reference (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      marina, 6412093

      to "checkerboards" and fracking in Pennsylvania. Logging maybe?

      I wouldn't mind fractivists being over reactionaries. I just don't like it when they totally make stuff up. If people want to be taken seriously they have to start out by not lying.

      I'm certainly open to the idea that fracking could cause harm, but I'd want to see that in clear eyed scientific unemotional fact based evidence. Lumping it in with clear cutting and mining does nothing to further my understanding.

      Isn't most of PA private land?

      “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

      by ban nock on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 06:07:59 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Isn't that a bullshit distraction? (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        phoebesdatter, OHdog, marina
        Isn't most of PA private land?
        That might be a reasonable question if the effects of fracking stayed on the oil company land.  They don't.

        I have a problem with the worship of "private property".  It's being interpreted as "I can totally ravage the land, poison the air, dump poisons into the waterways and aquifers, and because it originated on my land, it's all OK".  And that doesn't even take into consideration that the destruction people choose to visit upon their property often lasts much longer than the people do.

        I am become Man, the destroyer of worlds

        by tle on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 06:46:23 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  it's a realistic consideration when deciding what (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          marina, buddabelly, 6412093

          can or can't be done on land.

          My state is half public land, we have much more power over what gets done on our land than we do on someone else's.

          “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

          by ban nock on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 07:50:17 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Popular use of the word fracking refers to the (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        marina

        process of horizontal drilling into mainly coal or shale formations and fracturing the rock so the methane can be extracted. And whether you query Google for "hydraulic fracturing in Pennsylvania"  or for "fracking in Pennsylvania" there are numerous pages. Maybe you were using the "other" Google. A lot of the toxic frack fluid disposed of in Youngstown Ohio wells that caused the earth quakes came from fracking operations in Pennsylvania. It is easy to find out about these operations in PA and the Republican State shenanigans protecting the polluters. As you say'

        If people want to be taken seriously they have to start out by not lying.

        Life is just a bowl of Cherries, that stain your hands and clothes and have pits that break your teeth.

        by OHdog on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 06:57:57 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  you're still sore over the photo, I can tell (0+ / 0-)

          I googled Pennsylvania Fracking Checkerboard

          “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

          by ban nock on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 07:51:49 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  You said: (0+ / 0-)
          Popular use of the word fracking refers to the process of horizontal drilling into mainly coal or shale formations and fracturing the rock so the methane can be extracted.
          Your "popular use of the word 'fracking'" is an erroneous definition of what hydraulic fracturing is.   Hydraulic fracturing is not a "process of horizontal drilling."   Hydraulic fracturing operations have nothing at all to do with drilling operations.  
      •  Checkerboard is my description (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ban nock, terrypinder

        for the fragmenting of forests when the trees are clearcut for well pads, pipelines, roads, and other infrastructure. Here's some info and a few photos: http://www.marcellus-shale.us/...

        Pennsylvania has already endured the double whammy of coal mining and vast clearcutting of the late 19th-early 20th centuries, which enabled floods to later wash away topsoils. The forests are just now recovering, after a long bout of acid rain as well. The mine areas that are no longer active were in the process of being reclaimed, but budget cuts, etc.

        So underfunding of enviro agencies, attempts to turn their missions to economic engines for drillers, and Governor Corbett's wimpy impact fee instead of an actual resource tax; in addition to his and Ed Rendell's virtual giveaway of leases on state lands, and both of them heavily indebted to drillers...all mean that Penn's Woods are in trouble.

        Much land is privately owned, as you say. Some people are doing very well from leasing their land; friends of mine have secured their retirement and then some from leasing.

        I believe about 300,000 acres of state lands have been leased. The ownership of gas, oil, and mineral rights varies within state lands, and also within Allegheny National Forest in western PA.

        I do think that drillers as an industry try to be safe and responsible. But I have a big problem with government officials being in cahoots with them. The effects near where I live are not devastating, yet, but they have definitely made their mark.

        Thank you for your polite response. Btw, I think you are a gifted writer and should be writing for Field & Stream magazine.
         :)

        •  thank you for your detailed reply, I follow woodsy (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          marina, BachFan

          type issues in PA very peripherally because I get press releases from the Elk People who have a reintroduction going on. I know it's a huge state with a lot of countryside. The checkerboarding from roads would indeed by horrid. It turns the land square. I've seen it on the panhandle in Texas.

          “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

          by ban nock on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 07:55:41 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  To be fair, (0+ / 0-)

            I guess the land, after gas wells, doesn't really look like a checkerboard. Maybe more like a circuit board, but not so square. But there's no missing the scars on the land where once stood trees.

    •  I agree with a lot of your comment (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      marina, BachFan

      but almost all the damage to the Chesepeake via the Susquehanna originates in York and Lancaster counties, which are farming counties that are rapidly suburbanizing. There's no gas underneath them.

      Dawkins is to atheism as Rand is to personal responsibility (not an original but rather apt)

      by terrypinder on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 08:04:33 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  It's good to see a dose of reality... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ban nock, Joy of Fishes

    ...at this "reality-based site."

    There is plenty to complain about where it comes to modern oil and gas production methods, I never have seen the point in attacking over things that just aren't true.  

    That sort of thing just hurts those trying to make a real impact.

    "No amount of belief makes something a fact." --James Randi

    by theatre goon on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 06:45:00 AM PST

  •  Not all wing nuts have right hand threads n/t (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ban nock

    Rivers are horses and kayaks are their saddles

    by River Rover on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 07:28:07 AM PST

  •  Off to work 9 AM (0+ / 0-)

    “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

    by ban nock on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 07:56:38 AM PST

  •  so there wasn't a fracking catastrophe (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ban nock

    after the floods. that's really great and I'm glad people's initial reports were very wrong.

    but it seems you quite easily decide to toss away all the other available evidence, done by scientists, a great deal of it actually indirectly funded by the gas companies themselves, that describe the harm hydralic fracking actually does geologically and enivironmentally.

    I'm all for a healthy skepticism, more or less being sliced out of the womb that way, but your last paragraph is a bit silly.

    Dawkins is to atheism as Rand is to personal responsibility (not an original but rather apt)

    by terrypinder on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 07:59:29 AM PST

  •  Well you went after the hippies. (0+ / 0-)

    so you must be credible.  

    The tent got so big it now stands for nothing.

    by Beelzebud on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 08:57:56 AM PST

  •  I think you're a little... strident. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ban nock

    I'm not sure they were "lying" per se, but there was certainly a great deal of scaremongering and unsubstantiated accusations of a cover-up.

    •  It was what's called a rant (0+ / 0-)

      a writing style popular here at the GOS.

      “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

      by ban nock on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 03:19:08 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

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