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U.S. House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-VA) (L) and House Speaker John Boehner (R-OH) (R) lead a news conference with fellow House Republicans at the U.S. Capitol in Washington, October 4, 2013. Washington headed into the fifth day of a partial governme
House Republicans renewed the kind of parliamentary trickery they used to shut down the government last month to kill the Democrats' alternative bill to allow consumers to keep their existing health insurance plans. Republicans declared the Democrats' proposed amendment to their bill "not germane" to the underlying bill (despite the fact that they are about exactly the same thing).

Democrats objected to the ruling from the chair that their amendment wouldn't be allowed, and lost a 229-191 vote.

The Republicans's plan, as Rep. Rob Andrews (D-NJ) called it on the floor is "The Insurance Company Bill of Rights." It allows insurance companies to sell substandard insurance plans not just to the people currently enrolled in them, but to anyone who wants one. It also allows insurance companies to cancel any policy they want to. The Democratic alternative would require insurers to offer renewal to existing customers, and to inform those customers that they could get much more robust plans on the exchanges.

The Democrats are taking a second chance to forward their bill as a motion to recommit. That vote will be held shortly, followed by the final vote on the Republican bill.

10:40 AM PT: Rep. Fred Upton's (R-MI) trojan horse "keep your plan" bill, or as Rep. Ron Andrews (D-NJ) calls it, "The Insurance Company Bill of Rights," just passed 261-157, with 39 Democrats defecting. This is basically the 47th repeal bill in the Republican House. Like all the others, it won't to come to a vote in the Senate.

That's because this bill would allow insurance companies to keep selling insurance that doesn't meet the standards of the law, doesn't provide real coverage, to new customers. Democrats pointed out, rightly, that this would make the market reforms meaningless, luring healthy people out of the state marketplaces and driving up costs for people shopping in the exchanges.

Originally posted to Joan McCarter on Fri Nov 15, 2013 at 10:11 AM PST.

Also republished by Daily Kos.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (34+ / 0-)

    "The NSA’s capability at any time could be turned around on the American people, and no American would have any privacy left, such is the capability to monitor everything. [...] There would be no place to hide."--Frank Church

    by Joan McCarter on Fri Nov 15, 2013 at 10:11:47 AM PST

  •  The Upton bill will be DOA in the Senate. (14+ / 0-)

    Guess the GOP will have to go back to the drawing board for repeal attempt number 48.

    Will be interesting to see if after January 1st, the worm turns and the GOP feels the heat from being the anti-Obamacare party.  

    I agree with President Obama, our country's journey is not yet complete. We must continue the work that our forebearers at Seneca Falls started, and put the Equal Rights Amendment into our Constitution.

    by pistolSO on Fri Nov 15, 2013 at 10:17:03 AM PST

  •  "The Insurance Company Bill of Rights" (10+ / 0-)

    After all, Insurance Companies are people, my friend, dont'cha know?  Just one more example in a long history of Republican legislative Orwellian doublespeak.

    •  Not Orwellian; Press Freedom is a Corporate (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Stude Dude, rebel ga, chuckvw

      freedom and it's not a human's right at all.

      We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

      by Gooserock on Fri Nov 15, 2013 at 10:52:09 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I have Medicare and Medicaid. (0+ / 0-)

        I got a letter from our Dept of Human Services about switching, but they told me when I called that I could opt out, and didn't have to switch.

        Brought To You By That Crazed Sociologist/Media Fanatic rebel ga Be The Change You Want To See In The World! Gandhi

        by rebel ga on Fri Nov 15, 2013 at 11:19:11 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  President Obama: Miracle Worker (14+ / 0-)

    He has gotten Republicans to care about people losing their health care.

    Amazing.

    “I believe all Southern liberals come from the same starting point--race. Once you figure out they are lying to you about race, you start to question everything.” ― Molly Ivins

    by RoIn on Fri Nov 15, 2013 at 10:26:25 AM PST

    •  No, they care about the insurance companies (14+ / 0-)

      losing their ability to con people.

      With the Decision Points Theater, the George W. Bush Presidential Library becomes the very first Presidential Library to feature a Fiction Section.

      by Its the Supreme Court Stupid on Fri Nov 15, 2013 at 10:29:31 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  His refusal to push the Public Option (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        chuckvw

        revealed that President Obama sympathizes with that concern.

        "I am confident that we're going to be able to leave the Gulf Coast in better shape than it was before." President Obama

        by quagmiremonkey on Fri Nov 15, 2013 at 11:19:57 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Oh, bullshit. The Public option (5+ / 0-)

          simply did not have the votes.  It would have brought about a successful filibuster and then we would have nothing.  If you want to say that Lieberman, Baucus et al sympathize with that concern, you would be correct.  But, spare us your Obama hatred.

          With the Decision Points Theater, the George W. Bush Presidential Library becomes the very first Presidential Library to feature a Fiction Section.

          by Its the Supreme Court Stupid on Fri Nov 15, 2013 at 11:28:12 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Hard to get votes for good policy that you despise (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Capt Crunch, chuckvw, DavidinWY, wsexson

            When you sell the PO out for chump change before negotiations begin, instead of staking out a position on single player that would make the very popular PO better than nothing for the hated insurance industry. When you try to avoid maximizing your power through reconciliation, because "bipartisanship" is more important than the public good. When you spend over a year making the legislation worse and worse, ostensibly to get Republican votes that everyone knew were impossible.

            "I am confident that we're going to be able to leave the Gulf Coast in better shape than it was before." President Obama

            by quagmiremonkey on Fri Nov 15, 2013 at 11:45:07 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  yes it did! yes it did! yes it did! (0+ / 0-)

            He just didn't push hard enough!

            Lieberman would have reasonable!  Snowe, Collins, Nelson!

            IT'S OBAMA'S FAULT!!!!

        •  Since the White House traded the Public Option (6+ / 0-)

          away in early private talks with the industry, they couldn't exactly push for it could they?

          And now all the chickens are coming home to roost, because without a public option there was no mechanism of non-profit competition to force policy prices down. The sticker shock for people without subsidies is a reflection of that.

          There is a diary up right now from a Kossack in NY who is fine with his insurance costs being $200 a month  higher than they were before the ACA and a total monthly premium costs without subsidy as he doesn't qualify for them of 1100 a month for a family of three. A family of 3 paying 1100 a month AFTER "reform" for premiums alone is crazy.

          By killing the public option, I think the Obama administration essentially killed any chance the ACA had for real long term success.

          There is only one fix for the ACA - restore the public option by making Medicare for all a choice on the exchanges.

          “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR

          by Phoebe Loosinhouse on Fri Nov 15, 2013 at 11:40:53 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Obamacare is quite dangerous (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            LanceBoyle, chuckvw, delver, wsexson

            If this brainchild of the Heritage Foundation fails to survive, it will be easier than ever for Washington to laugh off the need for universal health care.

            If it does survive, we might have this to look forward to:

            At some point in the future, the right will introduce a plan to replace Social Security with a system of individual mandates and fines to compel working-age Americans to invest in for-profit Wall Street mutual funds during one’s working years, and to compel them to buy annuities from for-profit money managers at retirement (which with the help of centrist Democrats will be postponed to 70 or beyond).  The genuine progressives will respond with a defense of Social Security.  Whereupon the faux-progressives, the neoliberal heirs of Carter, Clinton and Obama, will reject the option of preserving Social Security — why, that’s crazy left-wing radical talk! — but insist that the subsidies for the poorest of the elderly be slightly increased, as the price for their adoption of the conservative plan to destroy Social Security.  Throughout the process, the right-wing Republicans and neoliberal Democrats will ask, “How can progressives object to means-testing, privatization and 50 state programs, when those are the very features of the Obamacare system that our friends on the left celebrate as a great achievement?”

            http://www.salon.com/...

            "I am confident that we're going to be able to leave the Gulf Coast in better shape than it was before." President Obama

            by quagmiremonkey on Fri Nov 15, 2013 at 12:04:08 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  Remember the Medicare Catastrophic Care Act (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            quagmiremonkey

            of 1988? It also ended up pissing off most of those it was trying to help, and it was repealed after a year.

            I think ACA is doomed. If it isn't defunded this year, it will collapse next year when it falls far short of its enrollment target for healthier younger people.

            Soaring health care costs and inequitable access to quality health care are some of the biggest problems we face. Health care ought to be reformed. But this will NEVER happen as long as we depend on insurance companies to pah health care costs, and as long as Americans are governed by fear, resentment, and selfishness.

            And the political penalties for even trying to reform it are so harsh I don't think I'll see another attempt to address the issue in my lifetime.

            •  I completely disagree with you (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              quagmiremonkey, JBraden

              I think if anything the ACA has whetted the American appetite for real reform.

              The need for healthcare reform was a driving issue of the 2008 election, not because the candidates wanted it , they're always comfy in their insulated little cocoon worlds, but because the public demanded it. If anything, things have gotten worse since then and the public has grown a lot wiser.

              It would be really simple to show up at every candidate outreach with a Medicare For All sign and this time around everyone would know exactly what you are talking about.

              The 50 million uninsured aren't going to go away anytime soon. If anything they will become more militant and demanding.

              “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR

              by Phoebe Loosinhouse on Fri Nov 15, 2013 at 12:47:19 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  too optimistic... (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                LanceBoyle

                Despite Mr. Boehner's constant assurances that he is working "for the American people" (and despite the American people's desire for, among other things, gun control, job creation and infrastructure repairs), it matters not a fig what the public demands.  Most of our representatives, especially Republicans, are boxed in by their own narrow ideologies, the demands of their big campaign contributors and the money they receive, directly or indirectly, from the special interest groups.  That's why, for instance, there has not been any effort to come up with a new law to overturn Citizens United.  

            •  If you can, fix it! (0+ / 0-)

              If in the end, a timetable for bringing those "junk" policies up to ACA standards is effected (like at the end of 2014 as was suggested) comes, and insurers decide that the profit margins are too slim, they get out of the exchanges. Even that can be good, those insurers aren't going to be able to access all that cash that being in the exchanges did, sitting on the sideline are plenty of policies to choose from. If not, then there must be a way for people that aren't qualified for Medicare, aren't qualified for Medicaid and uninsured to buy insurance..... Say hello to my buddy, SINGLE PAYER!

        •  That was Senator Baucus (0+ / 0-)

          It was the greatest blunder of all I think, when he took the single payer, even a public option off the table from the word "go"! He left us without a chip to bargain with! From then on it was a race to the bottom. The insurers have been partying every since. We can fix all our problems when we take the profit off the table too!

  •  That's The Big Problem (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rabel, Subterranean, ferg, tardis10, chuckvw

    With private health insurance reform.  The political sphere and the people are at the mercy of the insurance companies whose only concern is profit.

    Reap.  Sow.

    If I was a communist, rich men would fear me...And the opposite applies. The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles.

    by stewarjt on Fri Nov 15, 2013 at 10:30:20 AM PST

  •  Corporations are the R's only real constituent. (0+ / 0-)

    In their minds that means the represent the people. We'll, since they've purchased the SCOTUS who in turned favored them with the ruling that corporations, they do represents the some "people."

    I guess we're lucky corporations can't vote. Wait, they do vote - with MONEY.

    Bastards.

    I think that Republicanism is revealing itself as a personality disorder, not so much an ideology." -- Naomi Klein

    by AllanTBG on Fri Nov 15, 2013 at 10:30:41 AM PST

  •  The government of the USA (5+ / 0-)

    is remarkably paralyzed. I wonder if there is a comparable time in our history and I wonder if this really marks a time of real devolution of power back to States as Federal power wanes. It's pretty arguable that the Constitution is really outmoded in its operational aspects at least. The entire structure of government needs overhaul but the very structure that needs overhaul is completely unable to even contemplate it and there is no simple mechanism, barring a Constitutional Convention called by a large majority of the States, to do so. That won't happen because too many people are afraid of what might come out of it. I think the most likely course is that States will become much more like provinces of Canada and the Federal government will become ever less relevant.  

    Voting is the means by which the public is distracted from the realities of power and its exercise.

    by Anne Elk on Fri Nov 15, 2013 at 10:33:44 AM PST

    •  Prior to 2010, I would have said that (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      tardis10, ColoTim, chuckvw

      was bunk. Now, I think you're totally on the money.  I just never thought things would get to this point. I think your thesis is especially true with regards to health care (and gun control).

      •  Me too. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        chuckvw

        But I have been impressed by the changes to marijuana laws in CO and WA, as well as the unending assault in southern states on abortion rights. It looks like the States are beginning to chart policies that continue to differentiate them further both from each other and from the central government. Interestingly, Europe is suffering from a similar centrifugal movement, and it's not hard to see why. The rationale for large nation-states is becoming weaker and weaker.

        Voting is the means by which the public is distracted from the realities of power and its exercise.

        by Anne Elk on Fri Nov 15, 2013 at 12:05:17 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  I have to agree (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      delver

      it looks like things are going in that direction.

      I wish a few states could just become really damn the torpedoes full steam ahead progressive and implement single payer, have publicly owned utilities,  provide solar panels to homeowners, have a high minimum wage, support innovative building techniques for climate change, build great mass transit systems, have some kind of supplement to Social Security, publicly subsidized daycare centers, free in-state university tuition, etc and try to demonstrate what it means to live liberally and care for social justice and the welfare of all your citizens. High taxes for sure, but with some great returns.

      And I hope some states go the other way and become just as insanely backwards and regressive as a Tea Partyers Tea Partiest daydream.  

      Some states will gain population and some will lose. My bet would be on the liberal states as the ones to prosper.  

      “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR

      by Phoebe Loosinhouse on Fri Nov 15, 2013 at 12:38:48 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  The western states are clearly (0+ / 0-)

        headed one their own path. I just wish Single Payer in CA could get back on the ballot in 2014 This could be exactly the right time to move forward. I volunteered for OneCalifornia, but haven't received any further communication from them.

        Voting is the means by which the public is distracted from the realities of power and its exercise.

        by Anne Elk on Fri Nov 15, 2013 at 01:19:20 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  1858-59 (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Anne Elk

      Unfortunately, the 1% and their minions would dominate a constitutional convention.

      The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.

      by chuckvw on Fri Nov 15, 2013 at 12:52:27 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Why are people afraid of (0+ / 0-)

      a Convention to propose amendments? They are not afraid of Congress proposing amendments.

      Such a Convention would need 2/3 of the States to call, and such amendments would still have to ratified by 3/4 of the States.

      Sounds like fun to me.

  •  Need to keep calling it this (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Subterranean, La Gitane
    to sell substandard insurance plans
    everyone must know that this is what is being 'defended'
  •  The scariest part (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Stude Dude, CoyoteMarti, ColoTim

    of this diary is that  the republicans with a straight face  did not allow  the Democrat's amendment to the floor on the basis  that it was not germane. Are you kidding me!!! The dysfunction of this Congress as a democratic body is mind boggling.

  •  I'm sorry - did I miss something? (15+ / 0-)

    I'm listening to MSNBC, and they're calling this "Obama's Katrina", and saying that this is the undoing of his presidency...

    Really?  Are you fucking kidding me??  2% of the American public is no longer allowed to pay hundreds of dollars for essentially NOTHING, insurance companies would not be allowed to sell things that are non-compliant with THE LAW, and this is being compared to hundreds of lives lost and weeks of being trapped in filth and misery in the Super Dome????

    Shut. The. FUCK. Up.

    "Mediocrity cannot know excellence." -- Sherlock Holmes

    by La Gitane on Fri Nov 15, 2013 at 10:36:40 AM PST

  •  If the media spent 1/2 as much time debunking... (8+ / 0-)

    ...GOP bullshit lies abojut Obamacare as they have Obama's statement about keeping your plan if you like it, it would be twice as popular.

    Hesiod on twitter

  •  axe of nature, Acts of FSM (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Matt Z, Stude Dude, Fury, La Gitane

    Warning - some snark may be above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 "I’m not the strapping young Muslim socialist that I used to be" - Barack Obama 04/27/2013

    by annieli on Fri Nov 15, 2013 at 10:39:49 AM PST

  •  I would like to see (0+ / 0-)

    More about this

    The Democratic alternative would require insurers to offer renewal to existing customers, and to inform those customers that they could get much more robust plans on the exchanges.
    Haven't the evil Insurance companies that recalculated all of their policies based on the "Settled Law" are now supposed to spin on a dime and just let it go?

    If there was some spine, I would've thought the President would've showed it?

    What does "robust' mean? Higher premiums, deductibles, Out of Pocket?

    This is a total mess, imho.

    "When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains, And the women come out to cut up what remains, Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains An' go to your Gawd like a soldier." Rudyard Kipling

    by EdMass on Fri Nov 15, 2013 at 10:40:21 AM PST

  •  Upton Bill Isn't Good for Most Insurers (5+ / 0-)

    because they have already made all the preparations to switch to Community Rating.  The biggest issue is it requires insurers to keep 2 risk pools for individuals and small businesses - a health experience one and community rated one.  That is hard from an administrative standpoint and it creates a lot of financial issues since all insurance is about spreading risk over large numbers of people.  Multiple risk pools makes this much dicier.  

    I am not saying they wouldn't have potentially supported it when the bill was originally passed but not at the 11th hour.  Going backwards, which is what this and the Landrieu bill do, is hard for them at this point.

    How do I know - I work for  regional hospital system that also owns a health plan so we have been running all the scenarios.  We'd prefer everything move forward as outlined in the ACA.

    •  You must be in a state where there are (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      chuckvw

      exchanges set up by the state.

      Where I live the health care systems are one of the biggest employers and the employees complain about Obama Care as if it is evil -- I suspect mostly because it's causing them to change some things -- they have already had to upgrade to new computer systems that they didn't really want I suspect, and now they have more change to deal with...

      Is that what you see from your perspective, or not?

      I can do everything but earn a living.

      by alabamaliberal on Fri Nov 15, 2013 at 10:50:30 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  People Don't Like Change In General (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        lina

        The main reason most insurers oppose these changes at this time is they invested time and money to get ready for the new rules.  Undoing years of work is expensive and time consuming as is maintaining dual systems which is what all these "fixes" require.  

        There is a practical, non ideological side to business operations if not always their leaders.  As far as most health plans are concerned the ACA ship has sailed.  

    •  I agree (5+ / 0-)

      As a retired allied professional in a hospital setting, it is not hard to visualize the burden lifted off this country's health insurance unequality.  Not only will the average citizen of this country  benefit, but when all the dust settles, the whole industry will benefit.

      There is absolutely no excuse for the United States of America to be bogged down with factions trying desperately to withhold basic health insurance from their citizenry.  And, it is utterly inexcusable that these "factions," have no other reason other than it is coming from Barack Obama.

      This was a Heritage Foundation solution to our health insurance crisis.  It was tried in Massachusetts, and after a bumpy start, is successful.  It is the model for the country.

      Interestingly, now it is an abomination.

  •  Sounds like (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    exreaganite

    the republicans are so crazy they are protecting the Democrats from themselves.

  •  Looks like 4 Republicans voted no (4+ / 0-)

    Probably because they don't want to vote for anything that implies that Obamacare exists.

    "When dealing with terrorism, civil and human rights are not applicable." Egyptian military spokesman.

    by Paleo on Fri Nov 15, 2013 at 10:42:41 AM PST

  •  now Senate Dems need to vote on Landrieu bill (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Fury, CoyoteMarti

    so vulnerable Senate Democrats can point to an actual Senate roll call vote on how they tried to keep the promise of  "if-you-like-your-current-plan-you will-be-able to-keep-it", as Congressional Dems stated repeatedly during the months of debate on the ACA.

    •  GOP will just filibuster it, won't they? (0+ / 0-)

      They can prevent it from coming to a vote.

      •  so they will at least have tried - doing nothing (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ColoTim, wsexson

        does not help vulnerable Senate Dems.

        Obama's "fix" is inadequate cover for the damage this has done to the reelection prospects of vulnerable Senate and House Dems.

        •  I think once the website is glitch-free (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Whirlaway

          and people can see for themselves on the exchanges that they can get a better plan for almost the same cost and the Republicans do more to shoot themselves in the foot with more anti-contraception and anti-abortion antics and possibly more shutdown nonsense, Dems will be OK.

          I think once we're past this, and the GOP is stuck as being the "anti-Obamacare" party, Senate and House Dems are going to be OK.  

          I agree with President Obama, our country's journey is not yet complete. We must continue the work that our forebearers at Seneca Falls started, and put the Equal Rights Amendment into our Constitution.

          by pistolSO on Fri Nov 15, 2013 at 11:10:15 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  I don't know how much they are rejoycing (0+ / 0-)

    Makes their life more complicated.

    "When dealing with terrorism, civil and human rights are not applicable." Egyptian military spokesman.

    by Paleo on Fri Nov 15, 2013 at 10:46:37 AM PST

  •  The Republican Right to Defraud InsuranceConsumers (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    a2nite

    Right-wing, privatized, for-profit, corporate death panels and junk, nothing's-covered health insurance help to make corporate Amerika great.

  •  Is there a Democrat with a spine left? (4+ / 0-)

    47 Democrats defect to a GOP plan. This done to try to keep their seats in congress. I hope they're voted out. Better to have your opponent in front of you rather than sniping at your back.

  •  As much as they were rejoicing over the (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Fury, Victor Ward, delver

    passage of the ACA?  

    No public competition.  Check.

    Millions of new customers.  Check.

    Ah . . . I don't think so.

    "When dealing with terrorism, civil and human rights are not applicable." Egyptian military spokesman.

    by Paleo on Fri Nov 15, 2013 at 10:48:57 AM PST

  •  Commision PPP On This (0+ / 0-)

    It's not my money (although it's sure is in my interest), but I'd sure like to see a PPP poll on whether or not the voters believe that health insurance companies need a "Bill of Rights."

    I believe that the results would be fairly negative, and might wake at least some conservaDEms up, real fast.

    Yonder stands your orphan with his gun... Crying like a fire in the sun ~Bob Dylan

    by paz3 on Fri Nov 15, 2013 at 10:51:27 AM PST

  •  Now the GOP continues to piss off voters (0+ / 0-)

    Keep it up guys!  You might even lose your seats too!

  •  Once Upon A Time, Long, Long Ago (0+ / 0-)

    Bills would actually pass both Houses of Congress and a President would sign it and it would become law.

  •  Anyone got the Roll Call of Shame? (0+ / 0-)

    I have a few shoulder-chips to nurse …

    Code Monkey like freedom / Code Monkey like peace and justice too
    Code Monkey very nerdy man / With big warm fuzzy bleeding heart
    Code Monkey like you!

    Formerly known as Jyrinx.

    by Code Monkey on Fri Nov 15, 2013 at 10:52:57 AM PST

  •  Good only, 39 House Democrats voted for this crap. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    PorridgeGun

    President Obama, January 9, 2012: "Change is hard, but it is possible. I've Seen it. I've Lived it."

    by Drdemocrat on Fri Nov 15, 2013 at 10:53:07 AM PST

  •  So, which 39 Democrats decided that they (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    PorridgeGun

    want a primary challenge? Because that's what a vote to repeal the ACA (which is what this is) amounts to.

    "Violence never requires translation, but it often causes deafness." - Bareesh the Hutt.

    by Australian2 on Fri Nov 15, 2013 at 10:54:27 AM PST

    •  Yeah, right (0+ / 0-)

      A primary challenge that will, and should, go nowhere unless there are other bad votes.  Like Maffei and Maloney.

      "When dealing with terrorism, civil and human rights are not applicable." Egyptian military spokesman.

      by Paleo on Fri Nov 15, 2013 at 11:06:58 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  GOP fights - let insurance co. continue to screw (0+ / 0-)

    This would be hilarious if it were not so tragic.  The GOP is fighting Obamacare on the grounds that people must be allowed to continued to be screwed by their insurance companies!  

    If they have crappy plans, not up to basic standards, they must be allowed to keep them!

    So, by their logic, we will be right back where we came from:  An unexpected serious illness, a horrific accident, lousy coverage = can't pay the bill.

    Here we go again.  The hospital transfers their loss to those who are insured, and your insurance company makes up their loss by raising your premiums.

    The poor soul who can't pay either loses their house, goes into bankruptcy, or finds themselves in debt over medical expenses the rest of their lives.

    Obamacare's very necessity is to level off premiums eventually, with decent coverage for everyone.  This will happen with everyone in the "pool," and most everyone insured.  

    The sabotaging of Obamacare is a tragic exercise in nothing more than a concerted effort to trash anything Obama.

  •  Well, here's the issue (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Stude Dude, Victor Ward, lina, wsexson, VClib

    How confident are the Democrats that, if we simply remain at the status quo (assuming the website is fixed at some point) they will be rewarded, rather than punished, for the ACA in November 2014?  

    Because if no legislation passes Congress at all, we are at the status quo -- the ACA is entirely a Democratic bill, and Democrats live with it, good or bad.  If the Democrats up for re-election in 2014 are very confident that, if we simply push through, the public will be happy with the ACA, and with the Democrats who supported it, in 2014, then they are pretty safe voting against anything the Republicans suggest.  If that is what happens, then the Republicans would need this vote (and would need to compromise) more than the Democrats, because if the ACA is going to be viewed as a big plus by next fall, Democrats don't need to have it changed in any way right now.

    On the other hand, if Democrats are worried that, by next fall (if we simply push through with no legislative fix) a lot of people are going to be unhappy with the ACA, then they are the ones who -- politically -- need to have some "fix" put in place, and they need it more than Republicans do, because (if that assumption is correct) the status quo benefits Republicans far more in 2014.  

    Right now, the news reports are that there is a "Democratic revolt" against the WH because Democrats think this is a political crisis, and that they will be punished for the ACA next fall come election time.  Supposedly, it was meetings with angry Democrats that caused the Presidents statements yesterday (which included an explicit statement that he was sorry he put Democrats in this position, IIRC).  We'll see if those reports are true or not.  

  •  My Congresscritter, who CLAIMS to be (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    CoyoteMarti, guyeda

    a Democrat, Sean Patrick Maloney, voted for the Insurance Companies.   Here is the Roll Call vote.

    With the Decision Points Theater, the George W. Bush Presidential Library becomes the very first Presidential Library to feature a Fiction Section.

    by Its the Supreme Court Stupid on Fri Nov 15, 2013 at 10:59:14 AM PST

  •  Time is running out on the right. (6+ / 0-)

    ACA is moving forward. The website will be fixed soon enough and the benefits of ACA (both existing and forthcoming) will be apparent to the country. This will be another fight Republicans will lose.

  •   What we've got here is failure to communicate (0+ / 0-)

    Some men you just can't reach, the GOP wants what's best for the Corporations and Americans can just fuck off.. or die off

  •  Well cr*p. (0+ / 0-)

    From IL, Foster and Duckworth both voted aye. I know this is 'defensive' but still. Sigh.

    When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.

    by CoyoteMarti on Fri Nov 15, 2013 at 11:24:47 AM PST

  •  All this to deny healthcare. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Gamblndan, JBraden

    The amount of obstruction alone is enough to feel frustrated, let alone what they are obstructing for.  All of this to deny healthcare to millions of people who have really never had access to it.

    I am really frustrated that website isn't working well, and the enrollment has been so low.  That being said, when is this LAW going to be given a chance to succeed.....by anyone!  The republicans have done nothing but obstruct, and now the democrats are starting to get cold feet.

    Obama should not have apologized, and the democrats should be united.  I am tired of this issue coming down to political expedience.  It's going to take time to see results, you cannot have your health care with a side order of fries and a coke.  No thank you drive through.

    The faux outrage is deafening.  If the Republicans had anything to offer in the way of an alternative, I am all ears, but they have nothing.  If they think the healthcare system was just fine before, than they are dumb beyond measure, and just greedy bastards waiting for the poor to die.

  •  100% obama's fault (1+ / 1-)
    Recommended by:
    Whirlaway
    Hidden by:
    badlands

    I keep saying this..he's not one of us. He's a corporate shill. A charlatan. Putin's eyes might say "K-G-B" but Obama's eyes spell out "B-I-T-C-H".

    Should've adamantly staked out his position as single payer and then compromised (maybe) at public option.

    I bet if M.O was prez she wouldn't have rolled over like B.O.

    BO got in bed with insurers from day 1 instead of backing progressives...so f' him.

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