Skip to main content

Rick Perry is the governor of a state that has the highest percentage of uninsured. After the full implementation of Obamacare in 2014, many will remain uninsured because Texas Gov. Rick Perry is not accepting the Medicaid expansion to the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare). Perry runs around Texas telling his constituents that it would bankrupt the state. He says this even though 100 percent of the cost of the expansion is paid for by the federal government for the first 3 years. Thereafter the states are responsible for only 10 percent.

Most of the states with the highest uninsured rates are the ones neither setting up exchanges nor accepting the Medicaid expansion to Obamacare. These states have chosen the status quo. Millions of American citizens that could qualify for healthcare insurance through the Medicaid expansion will be left in the cold.

Make no mistake, the governors of these states have choices. They could take the 3 year Medicaid expansion at 100 percent and then opt out in year 4 if they really thought their state would get bankrupted. Their citizens could have at least 3 years’ worth of preventative care, coverage for their children, and much more. They could make the poor and the working poor in their states healthier.

Opposition to Obamacare has characteristics of an addiction. One knows intrinsically when one is doing wrong or doing something detrimental. However, the cravings make one disregard reality and acquiesce to the drug. What is the drug? The drug is hate for all things Obama.

Politics is a blood sport. Politicians and parties attempt to get an advantage at every turn. That is okay as long as it does not materially or deliberately affect the overall well-being of the constituent.

There are many stories detailing the plight of the poor whose only recourse is the emergency room. They get to the emergency rooms only to be stabilized and not really diagnosed in detail. Generally, not until it is too late do they get care at a point when it is most expensive and deadly. One of the most gut-wrenching stories was detailed by a Galveston, Texas, medical student where she literally watched a patient die over a few months. The patient died not because they could not help his cancer, but because he was uninsured.

There are so many real stories out there that every politician opposing Obamacare has access to. They instead promote stories that are generally debunked soon after they are released to the public. They choose to continue promoting stories they know are debunked.

More on these Obamacare lies below the fold.

Lying about real life stories is not enough for those opposing Obamacare. The Kaiser Family Foundation stated that since the inception of Obamacare, national spending on health care experienced the lowest rate of growth ever since the federal government began taking these statistics. No one knows for sure how much of this can be attributed to Obamacare. One fact is that many specifics like reducing readmissions which is encouraged by Obamacare, has effected some quantifiable cost reductions. None of this matters to the politicians opposing Obamacare.

Americans are busy. For their own cultural reasons they may be predisposed to watch one channel over another. If Fox News and to some extent CNN is promoting the verifiable lies of these politicians by given them a platform where they spew the lies and misinformation mostly unchallenged, how can that American citizen help being confused. Is traditional media not the arbiter of truth? Don’t they work for every American citizen to ensure they are not misled by government? The answer is simple. The traditional media does not work for the American citizen. The traditional media cannot be trusted. Much of the traditional media is nothing but a conduit or the propaganda arm of the American plutocracy.

When does lying and misinforming make the leap from hard nose political blood sport to immoral and evil? When politicians and their supporters lie and misinforms at the detriment of one’s health or life.

It is immoral and evil to encourage young people to forego insurance when you have no intentions of being there if they get sick or get into an accident. It is immoral and evil to build websites that trick citizens into accessing them while providing them with misleading information that dissuades them from getting the health care they need. It is evil and immoral to create false stories mimicking real people’s circumstances in an attempt to curtail the number of enrollees to Obamacare.

The president in his most recent policy speech implies that his last three years will be focused on inequality and every citizen’s access to success. The pope has been more vocal in calling out the ills of trickle-down economics and unfettered capitalism. Obamacare is a piece of one of the legs on the stool that will lift all citizens. You cannot have access to success if you are sick and without insurance or bankrupted by getting sick. You cannot have access to success if those that purport to care are absent or promoting that which will cause your demise.

The state of Texas has the distinction of executing more citizens than any other state. Rick Perry has condemned many thousands of his fellow Texans to death by neglect. For these he did not need a trial. Not providing ones citizens with available healthcare is a death sentence. Many other governors in red states have done the same. What will the evangelical churches do for you if Obamacare fails? What will the Southern Baptist churches do for you if Obamacare fails? What will conservatives and Republicans do for you if Obamacare fails? It is time for all to take stock. When does lying and misinforming become immoral and evil? It is now.

EMAIL TO A FRIEND X
Your Email has been sent.
You must add at least one tag to this diary before publishing it.

Add keywords that describe this diary. Separate multiple keywords with commas.
Tagging tips - Search For Tags - Browse For Tags

?

More Tagging tips:

A tag is a way to search for this diary. If someone is searching for "Barack Obama," is this a diary they'd be trying to find?

Use a person's full name, without any title. Senator Obama may become President Obama, and Michelle Obama might run for office.

If your diary covers an election or elected official, use election tags, which are generally the state abbreviation followed by the office. CA-01 is the first district House seat. CA-Sen covers both senate races. NY-GOV covers the New York governor's race.

Tags do not compound: that is, "education reform" is a completely different tag from "education". A tag like "reform" alone is probably not meaningful.

Consider if one or more of these tags fits your diary: Civil Rights, Community, Congress, Culture, Economy, Education, Elections, Energy, Environment, Health Care, International, Labor, Law, Media, Meta, National Security, Science, Transportation, or White House. If your diary is specific to a state, consider adding the state (California, Texas, etc). Keep in mind, though, that there are many wonderful and important diaries that don't fit in any of these tags. Don't worry if yours doesn't.

You can add a private note to this diary when hotlisting it:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from your hotlist?
Are you sure you want to remove your recommendation? You can only recommend a diary once, so you will not be able to re-recommend it afterwards.
Rescue this diary, and add a note:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from Rescue?
Choose where to republish this diary. The diary will be added to the queue for that group. Publish it from the queue to make it appear.

You must be a member of a group to use this feature.

Add a quick update to your diary without changing the diary itself:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary?
(The diary will be removed from the site and returned to your drafts for further editing.)
(The diary will be removed.)
Are you sure you want to save these changes to the published diary?

Comment Preferences

  •  Rethugs lie without shame.It is their blood sport. (16+ / 0-)

    They are very good at it. ACA should be no different. Different issue, different day. Just another lie.

    •  Not exactly. Lying is their business. Similar to (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      a2nite, JG in MD, srfRantz

      advertising, where the game is getting people to buy what they don't need to impress other people who don't care.

      For Republicans, the game is getting people to go along. They want you either whining about the bad things Libruls do or spaced out with their out-and-out paranoid delusions.

      Anti-Communism, per se, was a perfect example. On its best days, Communism was able to beat Hitler and drive the corrupt Nationalists out of China. But as a competitive economic system, you gotta be kidding. The Russians had Ford come in and make their trucks for them. China went to mixed capitalism (actually, National Socialism) and never looked back.
      ---------

      The main hoax here: "Obamacare Sucks." You thought it was complicated ??? Here's the official line of shxt to support it:

      1. “Providing fairness to the American people, under Obamacare, is all we’re asking for."

      2. "Obama gave big businesses a waiver."

      3. "They give all these unions a waiver."

      4. "Obama is forcing the American people to buy an insurance product that they do not want.”

      5. "Obamacare coverage under the new rules is too expensive for people to afford."

      That's advertising copy. Zero for reality testing. They fail, which is irrelevant.

      1. False, they shut down the government to get repeal. 2. False, a range of delays related to technical issues. 3. False, a manufactured statement. 4. False, people who have seen what's available and qualify are overwhelmingly in favor of this open bidding insurance system. 5. False, it's cheaper and that's mostly because the profit margins are smaller.

      GOPers don't care when they're caught lying. They have another hoax at the ready: "They All Do It."

      That's also their Big Gun for arguments that elections don't matter. That an unelcted Decider such as George Bush is better than a weak elected Bill Clinton or Barack Obama.

      The more they lie, the stronger they get.

      Can you think of other products that get by on hoaxes and lies, going decade after decade ??? Well, O.K., there's coal and there's tobacco. Mortgage brokers offering "friendly appraisals." Crack cocaine, sorta. (They have hoaxes: "Most people don't get addicted." "Recreational use.") Medical quacks make the list. Goldman, Sachs raided pension funds with their bribery-driven "AAA" shxt-paper and complex betting games.

      They are all differentiated from honest businesses by having bad words for their honest "competition."

      They're crooks. So are the Republicans. They use similarly structured hoaxes to push their wares. They understand the Ad Biz.

      Understand why they don't have much affection for democracy ??? "GovernmentDemocracy is the problem," don'tcha know. And "they all do it" so don'tcha bother voting.

      •  Actually, they are getting weaker all the time (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        waterstreet2013, JG in MD, freerad

        as the older Angry White Guys die off in the usual manner and fail to be replaced. Their kids increasingly don't buy it. Then the remaining Angry White Guys try to make up for declining numbers by getting louder and nastier, and by inventing new election shenanigans.

        I like to think of it like Grant's siege of Richmond in the Civil War. Lee kept him out far longer than anybody in the South had a right to expect, but with ever-dwindling numbers of soldiers. When Lee's forces were stretched too thin to hold on, he took them all and fled West with Grant and Sheridan in hot pursuit. Lee surrendered nine days later.

        We are going to reach a tipping point, as the country continues to shift our way with no Robert E. Lee on the other side this time, where the Republican gerrymanders start to give way and then snap, and in the ensuing non-partisan redistricting we get an unassailable House majority to go with a filibuster-proof Senate, and at some point thereafter a 5-4 majority for sanity on the Supreme Court.

        To continue the comparison, that will be like Chief Justice Roger Taney dying in the later days of the Civil War (on the day when his home state of Maryland abolished slavery) and Lincoln naming his successor, while the rest of the Reconstruction Amendments were being developed.

        Ceterem censeo, gerrymandra delenda est

        by Mokurai on Sun Dec 08, 2013 at 07:06:34 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I share your dream, but (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          acornweb

          I don't think I'll live to see it come true, nationwide.  It HAS come true here in California, where Dems now have super-majorities in both the legislature and the state senate.  This, of course, does not guarantee progressive policies, because CA Dems are just as Third Way as those in DC.  But at least we have meaningful debate and compromise, within the Democrats' ranks.  Jerry Brown has gotten downright conservative in his old age, but he uses his veto judiciously, whereas before the Dems got those super-majorities the GOP could and did essentially veto everything that didn't conform to their ideology.
          BTW, I'm 72.  My 34-year-old son probably will live to see your dream come true in DC.

          •  According to a statistical model from 2009 (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            acornweb

            by Nate Silver, Mississippi will likely be the last state to tip on Marriage Equality, possibly in 2024. Not all issues can advance at the same rate, but by then there will not be enough of a remnant of the racists, the bigots, the misogynists, and so forth to continue obstruction in Congress, and we will hold most state Legislatures and Governorships.

            That's the funny thing about tipping points. Until you get to one, nothing at all seems to happen. Then everything starts to happen all at once. Right now, in spite of majority support, only a little bit can happen on gun safety laws, on shutting down coal-fired power plants and not building more, on economic justice, and much more. But we have ObamaDoesCare starting to work, and, as Republicans feared more than anything, bringing voters to the Democrats.

            Up to 2009, Marriage Equality lost out everywhere it was put up for a vote. In 2009, the Iowa Supreme Court said that the Iowa ban was unconstitutional. In the four years since, we have gotten up to 16 states plus DC, with more lining up for next year. We only need to win three more a year to finish that part of the job in all 50 states by 2024. We do not have to win a vote in Mississippi in its present state. We have to do it with a further 11-year cohort of the elderly gone, and a new 11-year cohort of the young coming in to replace them, and further evolution of those in between.

            As Nelson Mandela said of his 27 years in prison and the anti-Apartheid movement overall,

            It always seems impossible until it's done.

            Ceterem censeo, gerrymandra delenda est

            by Mokurai on Tue Dec 10, 2013 at 02:59:29 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  Their weakness is in their inconsistent lies. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      CA Nana, DMentalist

      When confronted with this lie:

      Perry runs around Texas telling his constituents that it would bankrupt the state.
      But Gov. Rick Perry also lies about the need to subsidize business profits. One of these is not true. We can make it obvious without much effort.

      From another diary:

      So many people are taking government healthcare that it is time to go back and ask the question, “What has made America so great?” I must admit that there is truth in conservative thinking. Everyone needs to learn the American Way is to maximize their profit in the free-market exactly like the biggest companies in this country, GM, Apple, Boeing, Wal-Mart, AT&T, etc. They maximize income and minimize expenditures. This one simple idea is the foundation of conservative truth.

      So, I've decided to pay more attention to profits and expenditures in my life. I went to Healthcare.gov and carefully weighed cost and benefits for my family. Obamacare maximizes the profits of my family, so I support it. Those who preach about freedoms and death panels ignore the conservative foundations. Anyone who demands that I sacrifice my profits for some abstract “freedom for everyone” is a socialist bent on destroying the free market. And if I submit to their demands then the socialists win. I don't want freedoms that I can't use; I want cold, hard cash just like all those too big to fail companies. You don't see them turning down government money! If anyone is too big to fail, then I am too big to fail too. What makes America so great is that I can follow the same logic as the biggest corporation in the country. Obamacare maximizes my profits. Period.

      So, all we have to do is take one lie and drive it into the other. It's just a Reductio ad absurdum

      If we abandon our allies and their issues, who will defend us and ours?

      by Bryce in Seattle on Sun Dec 08, 2013 at 04:46:53 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Adherence to Ideology = Socialism! (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Bryce in Seattle

        Ooooh.... I like that idea.  The concept that the Republicans keep pushing ideology as being more important than reality, that's basically their entire opposition to what they are now defining as socialism!  Since they have radically redefined socialism, without actually telling anybody what they mean, and that their hatred of socialism is based on false ideology.  Adherence to their false ideology instead of doing what's best for one's own benefit, is basically adopting their own form of socialism, albeit a warped interpretation, a direct contradiction to their own principles of personal responsibility.

        Free market capitalists do what's best for themselves, to a fault.  Socialists follow ideology and do what's best for society, which in this case means following the Republican lead.  The Republican platform is most definitely not directly beneficial to the individual's benefit.  It is harmful and detrimental to the personal health and economic well-being of individuals, all because of a lengthy series of concepts and theories, most of which have been disproven at length by history and reasoned analysis.  So, like most of their hypocritical actions, this is a moebius strip of contradictions and representative of institutional insanity.

        •  Reductio ad hitlerium (0+ / 0-)

          Hitler kept people from getting healthcare.

          Unacceptable Realities by Krugman:

          As I said, the other issue where I see this kind of enraged denial is monetary policy. There are a lot of people on the right who know, just know, that the Fed is debasing the dollar and creating runaway inflation. This belief doesn’t seem to have been dented at all by five years of failed predictions of inflation just around the corner.

          On both the healthcare and inflation fronts, what you have to conclude is that there are a large number of people who find reality — the reality that governments are actually pretty good at providing health insurance, that fiat money can be a useful tool of economic management rather than the road to socialist disaster — just unacceptable. I think that in both cases it has to do with the underlying desire to see market outcomes as moral imperatives.

          The morality only applies to the poor, weak, and sick. Noam Chomsky likes to say the Republican policies are highly socialist. Socialism for the rich and austerity for the rest. So if you meet a poor conservative, helpfully suggest that they either maximize their profit and vote democratic, or apply their "moral imperatives" to everyone equally and vote democratic.

          If we abandon our allies and their issues, who will defend us and ours?

          by Bryce in Seattle on Sun Dec 08, 2013 at 08:31:34 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  No, this one is an existential threat to them (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Bryce in Seattle, annan

      The sum of all GOP fears

         Passage of the...health care plan, in any form, would guarantee and likely make permanent...the largest federal entitlement program since Social Security. Its success would signal a rebirth of centralized welfare-state policy at the very moment we have begun rolling back that idea in other areas.

          But the...proposal is also a serious political threat to the Republican Party...It will revive the reputation of the party that spends and regulates, the Democrats, as the generous protector of middle-class interests. And it will at the same time strike a punishing blow against Republican claims to defend the middle class by restraining government.

      That is the stopped clock pundit Bill Kristol, later of the Neo-Cons, talking about HillaryCare in 1993. Of course, the claim is that they will defend the middle class by maintaining all of the evils of the uncontrolled for-profit health care system, such as medical bankruptcies, pre-existing conditions, lifetime caps, and dropping people who get sick.

      Ceterem censeo, gerrymandra delenda est

      by Mokurai on Sun Dec 08, 2013 at 06:43:00 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Read and heard a story yesterday. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        portlandzoo

        In Kentucky a man comes into the KY Health office. Earns $14K a year gross. Has 5 children. Gets medical insurance at no cost to him.
        Says to the person in the office (and later repeats it for a camera) "I've been a Republican all my life. Guess I'm gonna be a Democrat now."

        A government program that makes working people's lives better is what the Republicans fear most.

        "An egg is not poultry.” An old Blues tune's brilliant insight into the notion that a zygote can, in any sense, be "a person."

        by carbonman1950 on Tue Dec 10, 2013 at 11:10:00 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Examples of these lies on my radio show (0+ / 0-)

      "The War on Obamacare"
      http://lmmpodcast.blogspot.com/
      KFBM's Mike Slater confesses to total ignorance of bankruptcies due to medical bills during a debate with the host of Local Media Monitor; former good comedian and current bitter-angry man Dennis Miller tells the right wing bosses of America to fire employees who have Obama bumper stickers; Roger Hedgecock says Obamacare will "destroy the country...literally" and describes sci-fi scenarios where Obamacare will be used as political extortion: "Do what I say or your children will not get healthcare."

      Join the fight against right wing radio in your local area-- http://lmmpodcast.blogspot.com/

      by WCWatch on Mon Dec 09, 2013 at 10:22:39 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  From a Jewish theological point of view (29+ / 0-)

    There is much discussion in the Talmud of when it is permissible to lie.  Basically, lying is acceptable in the interests of peace.  If you think the bride is really ugly you lie and tell her she is beautiful.  If you are comforting a dying person for whom there is no hope, you don't tell the terminally ill patient he or she looks terrible.  If your host has served terrible food but has really tried to please you, you tell your host the meal was delicious.  You don't hurt people's feelings with the truth when there is nothing to be gained from the truth.   And, most of all, if lying can prevent war or violence, then you lie.

    Notwithstanding the above, Republican lies are hurting the poor and denying them health coverage that can save their lives.  Their lying may be close to murder if uninsured die as a result.

    "We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals, now we know that it is bad economics." Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Jan. 20, 1937

    by Navy Vet Terp on Sun Dec 08, 2013 at 03:23:51 PM PST

    •  I didn't know Samuel Clemens was Jewish.... (10+ / 0-)

      But seriously, what you outlined up there is very close to the attitude of the late Mark Twain in essays such as "On the decay of the art of lying."

      "They smash your face in, and say you were always ugly." (Solzhenitsyn)

      by sagesource on Sun Dec 08, 2013 at 03:47:42 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Rick Perry -- another member of ... (7+ / 0-)

      Sarah Palin's death squad.

      And you are absolutely right about the Jewish point of view.  

      And it is the Jewish point of view about social justice that makes both Sarah Palin and Rick Perry so despicable.

      •  Also on immigration (2+ / 0-)

        among other things.

        Plead for the stranger among you, for you were strangers in the Land of Egypt.
        That's what happened in the Civil Rights Movement, and will happen again.
        When Israel was in Egypt land,
        (Let my people go)
        Oppressed so hard they could not stand,
        (Let my people go)

        Go down, Moses,
        Way down in Egypt land.
        Tell Old Pharaoh
        To let my people go.

        Also the widow and the orphan. The Talmud requires the poor to give to those even poorer, until you get to those too sick to go looking for those worse off. They're excused.

        Ceterem censeo, gerrymandra delenda est

        by Mokurai on Sun Dec 08, 2013 at 07:16:52 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  how has the internet affected political lies? (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      foresterbob, Navy Vet Terp, JG in MD

      Interesting article and summary about moral lying in Jewish thought, thanks for sharing! (Quite a different view than taqiyya, which is basically lying out of self-preservation. :-) )

      Maybe I'm just getting older and more cynical, but it seems that in the early days of the internet (1993-2000?) there was a glimmer of hope that people would be held more accountable for their lies, as they could be more easily discovered and publicized? But more recently (2004-2013) it seems that lies have become more bald-faced, and even though held accountable by some people, in the Internet's tsunami of information people revert back to their favorite source of news, so the discovery of lies has less effect? That's a sweeping generalization based on very little, just a rough hypothesis-of-the-moment; a question not a statement. :-)

      •  The important thing is that (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        BvueDem, Navy Vet Terp, JG in MD

        young people increasingly see through the lies. So the most important question is how to get them out to the polls to vote in the midterms. Fortunately for us, the Republicans are giving them many ever-more-urgent reasons to do so. Unfortunately, the Republicans have been somewhat successful in trying to teach the young that their votes don't count for anything. Fortunately for us, they do that by openly refusing to count the votes or even allow them to be cast, and getting voters real ripe mad at them.

        Ceterem censeo, gerrymandra delenda est

        by Mokurai on Sun Dec 08, 2013 at 07:20:42 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  They don't give a runny, three day binge (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      nocynicism

      crap.

      That's the party of Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan.

      -- Nixon surrendered to the North Vietnamese with the Paris Peace Accords. We ran away; they got an open line to take the whole country. So Nixon murdered 10,000 people with the so-called Christmas Bombings so he and Kissinger could lie to American voters that they had hammered the North Vietnamese to take the deal.

      -- Reagan murdered 1,500 civilians in Lebanon with naval artillery (1982/1984) and Lord knows how many Iranians from giving material support to his great buddy, Saddam Hussein for the Iran-Iraq War. "Teach them a lesson" was all it took for him to murder Arabs; less than that to murder Persians.

      Nixon's deal did not match the State Dept. Small change, that. Jimmy Carter had the U.S. neutral in the Iran-Iraq War. Reagan just had to get in there and kill some people.

      Murdering wogs is a great way to impress the Orange County and Palm Springs country club crowds.

      •  Reagan's Iran-Iraq conduct was worse than that... (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        waterstreet2013, nocynicism, JG in MD

        He didn't just help good buddy Saddam, he also helped the Iranians (Iran-Contra) in the interest of keeping an extremely brutal war going, killing 100s of thousands.  They were were just Arabs and Persians who hated each other anyway, so if we could help them both kill more of each other, and keep OPEC in dissarray so the price of gas stayed cheap, all the better.  They don't even believe in God.

        •  The arms to Iran were bribes to arrange release (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          nocynicism

          for kidnap victims in Lebanon.

          Reagan and his intel pukes never figured out that the Iranians had taken "just revenge" for his Saddam adventure by providing the design, triggers, and electronics for the truck bombs that flattened Marine BLT Barracks, the French barracks, and an office building in Tyre.

          Thermobaric truck bombs changed everything.

          For one, that's why it would have been plug-xss stupid in 2012 to put troops into Libya for "protection." Troops have to be billeted. There would have been no way in that no-police, no-army environment to prevent repetition of the October 23rd Marine bombing -- 241 dead.

          Eventually, in 1985, Qod force moved 1,500 troops into Lebanon. That was the critical change to the balance that let Hizb Allah take over southern Lebanon, beginning with the Shia villages that had been Amal previously.

          Look to my diaries for a hands-on retelling of the early years of those struggles -- 1982-1985. Palestinians will always blame Reagan for the Sabra and Shatila massacres. He moved out his "Peacekeepers" and the Christian Felangists murdered 3,500 mostly women and children. A lot of that was with knives to throats after they surrendered.

          Help to Saddam came by the shipload. Profitably.

    •  simpler, pragmatic (0+ / 0-)

      When one is lying primarily for one's own self gain, that is bad.  As that is, if we are honestly, generally the case lying is most wrong.  It is like self defense in many religions.  If one has to take a life to save a life, in some religions, it is mandatory.  I have not had a case where taking a life was necessary, though by many people rules I would have been 'justified'.

      So the question is when is it OK to lie, when is OK to kill, and whose morality are you using to justify it.  I am reminded of a story of the conquistadors in the new world.  It is said they were in a race with the priests.  As long as the priests had not told the women about Christianity, it was ok to rape them because they were heathens.  But as soon as the priests began the conversion, it was not ok to rape them.  It like some in military.  To some women are there to be hookers, to others they are there to defend the country.

    •   Agreed (0+ / 0-)

      Old saying "An injurious truth has no merit over an injurious lie" .  

      The GOP is wrong on both sides of the equation.

      They lie about ACA and WMDs and that they are wholly owned by the Corporatocracy

      and

      they show their truth with how much they disdain and hate the President, and the poor, people of color, and the old, and children, and the sick, and women.

  •  As for lying and depriving people of their health, (14+ / 0-)

    this is the rightwing's subtle form of genocide of the poor.  So is reducing food assistance.  So is depriving many of their voting rights.  So is the incarceration rate for non-violent crimes.  And on and on.  Worst of all, some of the future victims have been convinced to be the current assailants because they've been sidetracked by wedge issues.

    Building a better America with activism, cooperation, ingenuity and snacks.

    by judyms9 on Sun Dec 08, 2013 at 03:26:46 PM PST

    •  Social Darwinism. (0+ / 0-)

      They call it "Christianity."

      Their goddess is hair-and-makeup specialist Ayn Rand. She followed a 20 year manual arts career in Hollywood by writing their sacred texts.

      Her heroes read like a barely literate half-rapist take on Errol Flynn, who also had that as a problem.

  •  Texas might be the most populous state (21+ / 0-)

    whose politicians are actively working to deny health care to citizens. But there is plenty of suffering to go around, all across the country.

    Here in Georgia, the congressman and two senators who claim to represent me brag about how hard they've worked to derail the ACA. The insurance commissioner was recently caught saying that preexisting conditions are your own fault.

    We have politicians who would gladly turn this country into a third world nation. And plenty of people are willing to vote for the scoundrels who would make it happen.

  •  Its always immoral and evil n/t (7+ / 0-)

    Patriotism is the last refuge to which a scoundrel clings. Steal a little and they throw you in jail. Steal a lot and they make you king.... Dylan

    by bywaterbob on Sun Dec 08, 2013 at 03:29:44 PM PST

  •  American Conservatism is Immoral and Evil (12+ / 0-)

    It's about removing all government supports and protections for the people. We have 8,000 years of history showing that's both evil and immoral.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Sun Dec 08, 2013 at 03:32:58 PM PST

  •  From the Bk of Proverbs- a description of Westboro (9+ / 0-)

    There are six things that the LORD strongly dislikes, seven that are an abomination to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers.
    —Proverbs 6:16–19

    I must be dreaming...

    by murphy on Sun Dec 08, 2013 at 03:33:34 PM PST

    •  There is a lot of that in various parts of Tanakh (0+ / 0-)

      I am partial to Amos 2.

      Thus saith the Lord;
      For three transgressions of Judah, and for four,
      I will not turn away the punishment thereof;
      because they have despised the law of the Lord,
      and have not kept his commandments,
      and their lies caused them to err,
      after the which their fathers have walked:
      but I will send a fire upon Judah,
      and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem.

      Thus saith the Lord;
      For three transgressions of Israel, and for four,
      I will not turn away the punishment thereof;
      because they sold the righteous for silver,
      and the poor for a pair of shoes;
      that pant after the dust of the earth on the head of the poor,
      and turn aside the way of the meek.

      I brought you up from the land of Egypt,
      and led you forty years through the wilderness,
      to possess the land of the Amorite.
      And I raised up of your sons for prophets,
      and of your young men for Nazarites.
      Is it not even thus, O ye children of Israel?
      saith the Lord.

      Therefore the flight shall perish from the swift,
      and the strong shall not strengthen his force,
      neither shall the mighty deliver himself:
      neither shall he stand that handleth the bow;
      and he that is swift of foot shall not deliver himself:
      neither shall he that rideth the horse deliver himself.
      And he that is courageous among the mighty
      shall flee away naked in that day,
      saith the Lord.

      Ceterem censeo, gerrymandra delenda est

      by Mokurai on Sun Dec 08, 2013 at 07:29:38 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Pretty clear to me (0+ / 0-)

        that the Westboro folks never read any of it. Or if they have, they don't believe it.

        Flagrant disregard for the commandments, no concept of the beatitudes.

        And they claim to be Christians ?

        I must be dreaming...

        by murphy on Sun Dec 08, 2013 at 08:19:13 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Only When the People are DUMB Enough to (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Bryce in Seattle

    actually listen to and believe the lies, which thankfully most people are not that dumb.

    If you're implying a large number of people in Texas are morans, you could be correct, but the implication is insulting regardless.

    "The 1% don't want SOLUTIONS; they've worked very hard the last four decades to get conditions the way they are now".

    by Superpole on Sun Dec 08, 2013 at 03:36:50 PM PST

    •  Some people have the disadvantage (4+ / 0-)

      to be poorly educated, to be living in a sea of Red, to feel defeated and not strong enough to fight against the lies.

      I wouldn't call them dumb. I'd call them really, really unfortunate.

      Now the ones who are perpetrating the lies ... well, they are scum.

      Being the single intellectual in a village of 1,100 souls ain't much fun, especially when 1,099 of those don't think you're all that smart.--Lucy Marsden

      by Miniaussiefan on Sun Dec 08, 2013 at 04:05:22 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  "Fight Against the Lies...." (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Bryce in Seattle

        soooo, it's your job to fight the good fight for them?

        Here's a novel thought: there are millions of Unregistered Hispanic voters in TX... why does the DNC not work to get these folks registered and voting for democrats?

        "The 1% don't want SOLUTIONS; they've worked very hard the last four decades to get conditions the way they are now".

        by Superpole on Sun Dec 08, 2013 at 04:21:27 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Because the DNC are inside the Beltway (0+ / 0-)

          See Battleground Texas instead. They have recruited thousands of volunteers in Texas to help get Hispanics here legally to become citizens if necessary, to register, and to get to the polls on the day.

          And not on the Wednesday or Thursday after, according to instructions mailed out by Republican dirty tricksters.

          Other Democrats, too, of course.

          Ceterem censeo, gerrymandra delenda est

          by Mokurai on Sun Dec 08, 2013 at 07:35:44 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  OK... let's see how many more WEAK (0+ / 0-)

            excuses you can come up with as to why the DNC doesn't care about Texas, doesn't have a plan to get Unregistered Hispanic voter registered.

            are you stating the DNC is not a national organization? they "only work in DC"?

            Really?

            "It is essential that there should be organization of Labor. Capital organizes & therefore Labor must organize" Theodore Roosevelt

            by Superpole on Mon Dec 09, 2013 at 04:13:48 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Go ahead, make my day (0+ / 0-)

              with links to DNC programs in Texas. I haven't found any.

              I showed you my link, you show me yours.

              Ceterem censeo, gerrymandra delenda est

              by Mokurai on Mon Dec 09, 2013 at 04:31:12 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  That's "Funny", I don't Recall the GOP (0+ / 0-)

                being all that worried about "the rules" when they put together and funded a plan which Unseated something like 10 hapless dem governors in the 2010 election; bringing in cretins like Walker in WI, Scott in FL and so on.

                being overly concerned with "the rules" is for LOSERS.

                http://trailblazersblog.dallasnews.com/...

                "It is essential that there should be organization of Labor. Capital organizes & therefore Labor must organize" Theodore Roosevelt

                by Superpole on Mon Dec 09, 2013 at 04:40:53 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

        •  Because it could very well be illegal to (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          freerad

          do so and they don't want to get shut down.  Many red states have passed laws making it anywhere from very difficult to practically impossible to organize voter drives.

          You have watched Faux News, now lose 2d10 SAN.

          by Throw The Bums Out on Sun Dec 08, 2013 at 11:08:10 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Maybe they're not dumb .... (0+ / 0-)

        and maybe they are unfortunate, but too many of them vote based only on their love of "god, guns and the girl next door" which usually runs against their own best interests. Crazy huh?  ... oh, and of course they hate the black guy currently in the White House and anything he proposes.

        •  Yeah, Except (0+ / 0-)

          Plenty of people Like the black guy in the white house.. in fact Obama crushed Rmoney in the last election... it wasn't even close.

          and this happened in spite of over three years of 24/7 anti Obama bullcrap propaganda. that's a rather large indicator people are NOT paying attention to the bullcrap.

          "It is essential that there should be organization of Labor. Capital organizes & therefore Labor must organize" Theodore Roosevelt

          by Superpole on Mon Dec 09, 2013 at 04:11:47 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Sorry, my reference (0+ / 0-)

            was intended to mean the group of people in primarily southern states (white, working poor) who DID vote for Romney.  (Regarding the inability of progressive ideas to compete in "red" states). Sorry for the confusion.

  •  As long as Texans vote Republican (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jds1978, spritegeezer

    there is a good argument to say they deserve the shabby treatment they're getting.  

    •  Deny them because they were out-voted? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      foresterbob

      No, they do not deserve it.  Your argument is badly flawed. While outnumbered (for now), Democrats still have considerable support even in red states.

    •  Which "they"? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      foresterbob, JG in MD

      Plenty of people voted against Rick Perry and his people -- but they are stll stuck with him. Just like the Georgia pol who wants to blame pre-existing conditions on the person who suffers from them, don't blame everyone in Texas just because they lost the elections.

    •  Nope. Texas is severely gerrymandered (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JG in MD

      Without that, Texas Republicans would have to be rather more circumspect. But gerrymander or no, the state is shifting, and will tip decisively one day—the day the gerrymander can be undone permanently.

      Ceterem censeo, gerrymandra delenda est

      by Mokurai on Sun Dec 08, 2013 at 07:38:09 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  He can't do this for a simple reason: (8+ / 0-)
    They could take the 3 year Medicaid expansion at 100 percent and then opt out in year 4 if they really thought their state would get bankrupted
    Because, as they no doubt know, if people saw the ACA in action in this way in their state for even three years, it would never be shut down in the fourth year, or any year.

    And they can't take that chance--the chance of actually having something Obama put in place be successful.

    "Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions." - Thomas Jefferson

    by rfall on Sun Dec 08, 2013 at 03:41:19 PM PST

  •  the anti-humanistic party (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Conium

    It's ironic that the party that considers itself the party of morality is in essence, the anti-humanistic party.

  •  sociopathology of GOP lying = feature, not bug /nt (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    hooper

    Warning - some snark may be above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 "I’m not the strapping young Muslim socialist that I used to be" - Barack Obama 04/27/2013

    by annieli on Sun Dec 08, 2013 at 03:42:58 PM PST

  •  Demonstrably not true. (5+ / 0-)
    Perry runs around Texas telling his constituents that it would bankrupt the state.
    Do his "calculations" take into account the cost savings to the state--even in years 4 and on, where 10% of the cost of the program falls to the state--by not having to cover emergency room visits that would no longer have to happen?

    No, they don't.

    Does he care?

    No, he doesn't.

    "Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions." - Thomas Jefferson

    by rfall on Sun Dec 08, 2013 at 03:43:10 PM PST

  •  Another Reason (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    hooper

    Governor Goodhair and the Texas GOP are hoping all those would-be Medicaid recipients move out of state.

    •  They have another problem (0+ / 0-)

      All the fuss about Medicaid expansion has alerted many of the poor in states without the expansion that they qualify for existing Medicaid programs, and enrollment is increasing sharply. Without all of those lovely extra free Federal dollars to help.

      Ceterem censeo, gerrymandra delenda est

      by Mokurai on Sun Dec 08, 2013 at 07:40:52 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  When does lying... (5+ / 0-)

    ... about Obamacare become immoral and evil?

    We passed that rubicon a few years ago.

    Listen to The After Show & The Justice Department on Netroots Radio. Join us on The Porch Tue & Fri at Black Kos, all are welcome!

    by justiceputnam on Sun Dec 08, 2013 at 03:47:31 PM PST

  •  Does the ACA have a Doughnut Hole? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dconrad, jds1978, worldlotus

    I read a diary the other day about an ACA success story of a person who got to sign up for insurance because he was entitled to a significant subsidy that made it affordable for him, but barely affordable.  He indicated that if his income dropped even a little bit, he would no longer be able to afford the premium payment, but would qualify for the medicaid expansion.  However, since he lives in one of those Republican States with no expansion of medicaid, he stated that he would not be eligible for medicaid if he found himself unable to pay his policy premium with the subsidy and would lose his insurance until and unless he had a low enough income to qualify for "conventional" medicaid.

    Is this possible?  Can someone fall into this income hole?

    "Some men see things as they are and ask, 'Why?' I dream of things that never were and ask, 'Why not?"

    by Doctor Who on Sun Dec 08, 2013 at 03:49:54 PM PST

    •  yes. That's what the Republican governors have (9+ / 0-)

      created with their refusal to expand Medicaid.

    •  Yes, until Congress amends the law (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      wordwraith, worldlotus

      to overcome the problem that the Supreme Court created, at the urging/insistence of the Republicans who challenged the Medicaid mandate.

      The law as written and enacted and signed by Obama does not have a donut hole.

      We need to keep repeating this. It's not an Obamacare donut hole. It's a Republican one, twice over -- once in their insistence on challenging the Medicaid mandate, and again in refusing the Medicaid expansion for their states.

    •  Poor people (0+ / 0-)

      who fall into this category need to create income.  Create a business and pay taxes on income they received - even if they have to trade services with a neighbor at $100 per hour.

      The SS/Medicare taxes paid will enable them to receive subsidies that more than compensate for their expenditures.  

      And as a side benefit SS and Medicare will get a boost.

      Republican tax policies have led to financial conditions which have caused Republicans to demand cuts to programs they have always opposed.

      by AppleP on Sun Dec 08, 2013 at 07:38:46 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  The GOP is going to REALLY regret... (6+ / 0-)

    ....tagging the ACA "Obamacare." Somewhere, the ghost of FDR is shaking his head and wondering why  his opponents hadn't called Social Security "Rooseveltcare," until he looks in the mirror and realizes that as a white guy, his name just didn't have enough scare factor in it.

    "They smash your face in, and say you were always ugly." (Solzhenitsyn)

    by sagesource on Sun Dec 08, 2013 at 03:55:39 PM PST

    •  Yeah, RosenfeldCare just doesn't have that (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sagesource

      je ne sais quoi. Anyway, it was mostly the Germans that tried that sort of thing with him. ThatManCare? Maybe not that either.

      Still, we did get the HillaryCare era, and may very well again if we can get to a public option within eleven years.

      Ceterem censeo, gerrymandra delenda est

      by Mokurai on Sun Dec 08, 2013 at 07:48:20 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  We will certainly get HillaryCare.... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        nocynicism

        ....if she is anywhere near any major improvement of the present ACA. Because to the Greedy Old Perverts, girl parts are just as icky as melanin in the skin.

        "They smash your face in, and say you were always ugly." (Solzhenitsyn)

        by sagesource on Sun Dec 08, 2013 at 08:14:58 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  If you didn't follow that link (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    foresterbob, nocynicism

    to the gut-wrenching storiesstories from the Galveston doctor who watched patients with treatable illnesses die, do yourself a favor and get a box of tissues and then click it and read it.

    Don't skip the first step. Trust me when I say you're going to need the tissues.

    We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly.

    by dconrad on Sun Dec 08, 2013 at 03:56:07 PM PST

  •  I think the question should be when does lying (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Texnance

    itself become evil. Because lying now is the name of the game.

    Force is the midwife of every old society pregnant with a new one. Marx

    by Marihilda on Sun Dec 08, 2013 at 04:17:45 PM PST

  •  I wonder if you can sue a Republican governor (3+ / 0-)

    for wrongful death. After all if a person dies who could have lived if he had Medicaid and it is provable, then the party who prevented the person from getting Medicaid is responsible for that person death. Now that is just an idea, however there should be some consequences  for Republicans who are causing the needless death of our fellow citizens.

    •  You are (0+ / 0-)

      definitely "out there".

      •  Who's got the MONEY to sue? (0+ / 0-)

        Because the only justice we have left is justice we can buy, and the amount we can buy is directly proportional to the amount of money we can pay.

        It would take a class action suit AND a huge bankroll behind it.

        If it's
        Not your body,
        Then it's
        Not your choice
        And it's
        None of your damn business!

        by TheOtherMaven on Sun Dec 08, 2013 at 04:58:58 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  The courts have been unyielding on the notion (0+ / 0-)

      that they are not there to write legislation, and that the public has to look to legislators for that, including voting in legislators who will do what they want. Yes, we all know that there are glaring exceptions where they make a big charade of not legislating from the bench while they do it, but unless it is a state killing off corporations that isn't going to happen with this Supreme Court.

      Ceterem censeo, gerrymandra delenda est

      by Mokurai on Sun Dec 08, 2013 at 07:52:25 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  And Texas will still get some new Medicaid... (4+ / 0-)

    ...enrollees. All the publicity has made some of those who were eligible pre-ACA aware that Medicaid is an option for them.

    How Perry and his Administration respond to that influx of (I'm guessing) easily more than 100k Texans is bound to be ugly.

    Change does not roll in on the wheels of inevitability, but comes through continuous struggle. --Martin Luther King Jr.

    by Egalitare on Sun Dec 08, 2013 at 04:29:54 PM PST

  •  When It Kills or Injures People (2+ / 0-)

    When does lying about Obamacare become immoral and evil? Well, when it kills or injures people. Stopping people from getting coverage through ACA or misdirecting them so that they don't get the coverage they are entitled to would qualify.

  •  Only when the anti-health care brigade (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    foresterbob

    is publicly embarrassed and humiliated for wishing to deny insurance to their fellow Americans, only then will they retreat.

    They need to be confronted every time they appear on TV mouthing anti-Obamacare slogans.  

    Democrats must seize the offense and play real hardball.  Now.

    It's the Supreme Court, stupid!

    by Radiowalla on Sun Dec 08, 2013 at 04:33:52 PM PST

  •  As if politicians (0+ / 0-)

    ever really concerned themselves about whether their conduct was immoral or evil. Sorry, 60+ years of sad experience speaking.

  •  they're not lies (0+ / 0-)

    not if they get to blow them all over the country from 1200 radio stations all day long, to 50 million a week, protected by call screeners and aided by paid callers.

    if they can repeat the lies all day that loudly and no one gets in their face in real time then it's okay for media and politicians to repeat it.

    it's the same way they stopped hillary care and made single payer politically impossible. their alternate reality creation would not be anywhere near the problem it is if thinking americans would stop giving those stations and their blowhards a free speech free ride.

    it is better now than it was a few years ago, but it's not getting better fast enough.

    This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

    by certainot on Sun Dec 08, 2013 at 04:39:17 PM PST

  •  Lying about Obamacare is always unethical (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    a2nite

    100% of the time.   So the answer to the question posed by the diary title is "always."

  •  Foul Mary Fallin of Oklahoma is no better. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Calamity Jean, freerad

    These repulsive RepUGLYcan governors always claim to be Christian but their actions say otherwise.

  •  Can we arrest state leaders... (0+ / 0-)

    ....not implementing a state law?  Put a stop to all this nullification business if arrests are made for sedition.

    •  Nope, Supreme Court said they had a right to (0+ / 0-)

      It's a federal law but the Court said states did not have to follow it -- they just forfeit the Federal money if they choose not to expand. So talk of nullification and sedition is not appropriate here.

      The refusals to allow navigators and some of the other rigamarole may give grounds for federal enforcement, but it's still not "nullification" or "sedition."

  •  Citation Please. Tk U (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Compost On The Weeds, worldlotus
    Make no mistake, the governors of these states have choices. They could take the 3 year Medicaid expansion at 100 percent and then opt out in year 4 if they really thought their state would get bankrupted.
    That's kinda important...

    "When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains, And the women come out to cut up what remains, Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains An' go to your Gawd like a soldier." Rudyard Kipling

    by EdMass on Sun Dec 08, 2013 at 05:01:15 PM PST

  •  The chance of bankruptcy is remote anyway (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LI Mike, Calamity Jean, freerad

    The risk of bankruptcy is remote under any circumstance, as virtually all analyses of expanding Medicaid conclude that expansion will benefit state economies. Those gains will easily surpass any costs incurred by expansion.

    So, Perry is not only denying health care access -- and that's what it amounts to -- to people who need it, he's deliberately imposing a drag on the Texas economy while subsidizing the economies of New Mexico, Arizona, and California.  In the meantime, the denial of preventive health care will add to Texas' costs. That he can get away with this and even be supported for doing so shows how deep and truly irrational the hatred of Obama is.

    Plus, what is the justification going to be five years from now when the states that expand don't go bankrupt? With that rationale gone, will Perry advocate expansion? Fat chance.

    "There is no room for injustice anywhere in the American mansion." Lyndon Johnson

    by pkgoode on Sun Dec 08, 2013 at 05:13:59 PM PST

    •  Depends on what you think Congress will do (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      worldlotus

      If the GOP takes the Senate in 2014 and the White House in 2016, most likely the Federal money for the expansion will disappear and Medicaid will be block-granted. I assume that's what all these Governors are nervous about. If their party wins those elections at the Federal level, then the state could indeed be in very deep trouble.

      The shutdown would tend to give credence to those who are very very nervous about whether the Federal money will actually be there to reimburse states for the extra expenses.

    •  In five years it will (0+ / 0-)

      Gov. Davis

      one must take a position that is neither safe, nor politic, nor popular, but he must do it because Conscience tells him it is right. MLK

      by Klick2con10ue on Sun Dec 08, 2013 at 06:12:02 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Always nt (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Bryce in Seattle

    nosotros no somos estúpidos

    by a2nite on Sun Dec 08, 2013 at 05:14:56 PM PST

  •  As a former hospital administrator (0+ / 0-)

    I'd like to know what you mean by "not really diagnosed in detail?" A technical term I haven't heard before, perhaps.

  •  According to Teabagger Ethics, (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    foresterbob

    Lying isn't really Lying until the Voters are smart enough
    to know that they have been Lied to.

    Until that happens, Everything is just referred to as
    "A Difference of Opinion".

    When the Village Idiots finally figure out that they have
    been Lied to, the people that told the Lies will claim
    "It's not our Fault. Nobody could have Known".

    On Giving Advice: Smart People Don't Need It and Stupid People Don't Listen

    by Brian76239 on Sun Dec 08, 2013 at 05:55:08 PM PST

  •  I find it ironic (0+ / 0-)

    that the republican party is doing something that will

    help even out the unreasonable subsidies to the south.

    http://taxfoundation.org/...

    I never supported Obamacare  because it forces republican controlled states to take care of their people better.

    I supported it because it allows us living in the civilized states to run our economies more efficiently.

    If the boondocks want to run their own communities into the ground, in a manner which has a a reduced effect on on responsible communities than by golly I dont give a shit. They can have at it.

    •  A question: have you ever voted (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      nocynicism, worldlotus

      For a lawmaker who lost?  Have you ever worked your tail off for a lawmaker who lost?  That's what happens to many people in what you call "the boondocks" and they have to live with the terrible results.  Just look at a place like Wisconsin, a divided state that got stuck with a right wing governor and a GOP led legislature, despite a highly motivated, educated and determined opposition.  Do you believe those people deserve the kind of policies that are being foisted on them, ruining their wonderful state? In your callous response, you relegate every person in the state, including the powerless poor, to lack of care, medical bankruptcies or premature death because of the policies of the majority.  

      "It ain't right, Atticus," said Jem. "No, son, it ain't right." --Harper Lee, To Kill a Mockingbird

      by SottoVoce on Sun Dec 08, 2013 at 07:59:06 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I have been lucky enough (0+ / 0-)

        to have been on the winning side of the elections I have participated in, and cared about.  I do not expect that luck for everyone. But there is a difference between living in Wisconsin and getting some bum luck, every now and than, and choosing to live in Oklahoma, Utah or Tennessee etc .

        There are some who are foisted into this situation by some cruel twist of fate,  Say because their skill set is only applicable to being an oil worker. I imagine you will disagree with the next bit. But for the most part the state you live in is a choice. Yes I include the poor in this voluntary part.

        So yes, if you are choosing to live in an area like that, I do not feel bad for you at all.  Short lives and medical bankruptcies and all.

        Even for children in the state. I do not blame the state, I blame the parents for choosing to raise their children in an uneducated black hole.

        •  wow (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          worldlotus

          You sure sound like Paul Ryan, and the rest of the you-have-no-one-to-blame-but-yourselves Ayn Randian Republican Scrooges.  You are certainly right in assuming I'd disagree with you.  Apparently, you are lucky enough not to have personally experienced real poverty or serious discrimination yourself, or you would not be so callous in writing off millions of people who don't have the kind of choices you suggest.  I purposely chose Wisconsin as an example, because your commentary suggested you could only envision things from the perspective of white, privileged, educated and mobile voting public.  You might want to examine your own prejudices.

          "It ain't right, Atticus," said Jem. "No, son, it ain't right." --Harper Lee, To Kill a Mockingbird

          by SottoVoce on Mon Dec 09, 2013 at 11:06:58 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  Fits right in (0+ / 0-)

    With the fake pregnancy services ads and referrals. And, for that matter, some groups' proselytization tactics.

  •  Good thing BHO didn't lie. (0+ / 1-)
    Recommended by:
    Hidden by:
    cville townie

    If you like you plan, you can keep your plan. Period.

    http://barackobamafile.com/...

  •  Help Please (0+ / 0-)

    Please help us put pressure on our Governor to expand Medicaid (Phone number) 334-242-7100 or fax 334-353-0004 governoralabama.gov/contact/

     Please support the citizens of Ala. (Medicaid expansion) please sign the petition http://www.crumpton2014.com/...

    Here's his facebook page also (let him have it) https://www.facebook.com/...

  •  One needs a soul to feel... (0+ / 0-)

    so Texas republicans and company will keep on until the public makes them stop.

    cheerleaders need not apply.

    by kravitz on Sun Dec 08, 2013 at 09:49:54 PM PST

  •  At what point (0+ / 0-)

    do we begin to call these people (conservatives) anti government insurgents bent on toppling our democracy.
     Seriously, they have professed to drown our government in the bathtub, shut down the government twice in recent memory, sabotaged our credit rating. and at every turn have tried to starve some or all the American people.
    When is enough ............enough?

    The Job Killing Republican Party is directly responsible for the Great Bush Recession.

    by earthling1 on Mon Dec 09, 2013 at 11:47:24 AM PST

  •  Isn't lying about anything... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dmcrane1

    IMMORAL and EVIL?

    Really. That's what I was taught in Sunday School.

    Small lies about Santa Claus? OK. Tiny lies to avoid hurting someone? Allowed.

    But any lie that attempts to change how people understand what is happening in the real world; any lie that attempts to distort people's perception of reality is definitely both immoral and evil.

    "An egg is not poultry.” An old Blues tune's brilliant insight into the notion that a zygote can, in any sense, be "a person."

    by carbonman1950 on Tue Dec 10, 2013 at 11:03:09 AM PST

  •  Lying (0+ / 0-)

    The Repugs thrive on deception and negativity. They are verbal terrorists, not Americans. They would kill their own mothers to get elected.

  •  Never (0+ / 0-)

    if you're a Republican.

  •  When Does Lying Become Immoral & Evil? (0+ / 0-)

    I think this is one of the best articles I have read on Daily Kos or almost anywhere else.  It is because you use strong words and you call a spade a spade.  Other news sources have started to spell it out in their own articles, calling the opposition to President Obama as being racist and bigoted.  

    It is time to stop being nice trying to use diplomatic terms when faced with racism, sexism, classism, bigotry, immoral politics, and dismissing the Poor as if they did not deserve to live and breathe and eat.

    I watched a movie in which a teacher deliberately abused a child who continued to use both Swedish and Finnish in the classroom.  The teacher was racist and despised the "ignorant" Finnish people immigrating to Sweden in the early 1950's. When the child continued to use Finnish in order to help another child who knew only Finnish, the teacher rebuked her and said, "You Are Nothing To Me."  And she turned and walked away.  Those words are very painful to one's ears and especially to the sensitive ears of a child.  It is a very quiet movie, and it pulls strongly on your emotions.  The title of the movie is ELINA.

    Thank you for your strong words.  What the Tea Partiers have become is indeed Immoral and Evil.  Let's call a spade a spade.  Let's call it what it is.

    I think I might recommend your article on my website.

    Ellen Henegar  

  •  Lying is only one Prong (0+ / 0-)

    Let's get this straight.

    1 - Republican politicians are lying to their constituents about how much the Medicaid extension to the ACA will cost the states; it will cost nothing in the first three years, then 10% thereafter.  Lying is, at best, immoral.

    2 - Republicans pointed hackers to a site from which they could download tools.  These tools were then used to perform a Distributed Denial of Service (DDoS) attack on the ACA's website, healthcare.gov. The Federal Trade Commission and Federal Communications Commission should jump in and investigate. Interstate hacking is illegal.

    3 - Republicans in California set up a fake ACA web site, with a similar name, then sent out postal mailings, which directed people to the fake web site, at which site the visitors were given false and inflammatory information about the ACA, so that they would not sign up for the ACA. This use of the US Postal System is a Federal Offense, which should be investigated by the Postal Police, an incredibly well-trained organization, the equal to most other federal law enforcement agencies.  This is at best, Mail Fraud, which carries extremely stiff penalties.

    To recap, the Republicans have lied, cheated, and burgled, to prevent people from signing up for the ACA.  And nobody, not a single law enforcement agency, local or federal, has done a thing to prosecute this.

    I can only ask:  WHY NOT?

    Sometimes, you need a sensa uma!

    by HashHoward on Wed Dec 11, 2013 at 07:26:52 AM PST

  •  Lying About the Affordable Care Act... (0+ / 0-)

    It is NOT "Obamacare"; it is the ACA.
    It was passed by a majority of CONGRESS.
    President Obama merely signed it.
    Sure, he was a proponent of the ACA; so are the vast majority of Americans.
    The likes of Rick Perry and all the other evil-pretend-to-be-holy jerks who obviously hate their fellow man should not have any say in whether or not people obtain affordable health care.
    The liars should have their tongues cut out, then have to seek medical care from an emergency room in a third world country.
    Hell is reserving a special place for good 'ol Ricky the hypocrite.

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site