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Republican Massachusetts Senator Scott Brown smiles after his ceremonial swearing-in at the U.S. Capitol in Washington February 4, 2010.  REUTERS/Kevin Lamarque   (UNITED STATES - Tags: POLITICS)
As former Sen. Scott Brown moves to New Hampshire in possible preparation for a Senate run in that state just two years after he lost in Massachusetts, he's encountering some vocal and armed opposition:
At least 200 gun rights activists, some with semi-automatic rifles slung over their shoulders, last night stood in the snow in near-freezing temperatures wearing bright orange hunting clothes to protest as Brown headlined a Republican party fundraiser in Nashua, New Hampshire.

“Down with Brown. Down with Brown. Down with Brown,” they chanted, at times so loudly their words echoed across the street.

See, Brown voted for an assault weapons ban as a Massachusetts state senator and then, in his final month as a United States senator, following the massacre of children and school staff at Sandy Hook Elementary School, said he would support a federal assault weapons ban. Despite Brown's support for various other gun-promoting legislation, his assault weapons ban support means that a certain type of New Hampshire Republican who would be just fine with getting leftovers from Massachusetts is instead hysterically opposed to him.

Various of the Some Dudes who are definitely in the New Hampshire Republican Senate primary took the opportunity to proclaim that they were totally pro-gun in all circumstances. If Brown does run, it's going to be fun watching him try to shift gears from the thinly veiled misogyny of his Massachusetts campaigns against women to deal with a crowd committed to out-machoing him at every opportunity.

Originally posted to Laura Clawson on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 09:04 AM PST.

Also republished by Take New Hampshire Forward!, Repeal or Amend the Second Amendment (RASA), Shut Down the NRA, Firearms Law and Policy, and Daily Kos.

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Comment Preferences

  •  They need to be arrested and prosecuted for... (17+ / 0-)

    ...terrorism, their homes searched carefully and thoroughly for any and all weapons, and all of their guns confiscated for life.

    some with semi-automatic rifles slung over their shoulders

    An HR from a member of the RKBA is like an F rating from the NRA
    ---We Shall Overcome (12/3/13)---

    by earlybird on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 09:10:45 AM PST

    •  Should probably make that a crime first (45+ / 0-)
      New Hampshire is a "shall-issue state" for a license to carry a concealed handgun. The act of open carrying of firearms by non-felons is generally permissible.[4]
      No license is required to openly carry a firearm while on foot,
      http://en.wikipedia.org/...

      You might want to get an activity made illegal first before calling for arrests and terrorism charges.

      •  earlybirds mistake was thinking NH is a sane state (15+ / 0-)

        just because it borders on MA. It isnt.

        •  NH is a great place to live (15+ / 0-)

          and recently turned a lovely shade of blue. Granted (Granite?) it has some quirks but on the whole I wouldn't want to live anywhere else except maybe in the winter.

          "You have no respect for excessive authority or obsolete traditions. You're dangerous and depraved, and you ought to be taken outside and shot!" - Catch 22 by Joseph Heller

          by rambler american on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 10:08:24 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  You've obviously never been to New Hampshire. (11+ / 0-)
          earlybirds mistake was thinking NH is a sane state just because it borders on MA. It isnt.
          In 2010, NH experienced 0.4 gun murders per hundred thousand inhabitants; Massachusetts, 1.8.  NH is the second safest state in the country after Vermont for murder-by-gun.

          Apology accepted.

          ----- GOP found drowned in Grover Norquist's bathtub.

          When it all goes wrong, hippies and engineers will save us. -- Reggie Watts

          by JimWilson on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 10:56:21 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Can you adjust that statistic... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            TKO333

            ...for equivalent conditions? Like, compare NH and MA regions with equivalent population density, economic conditions etc.?

            As stated, it's like Newt stating that all (it's really most) large cities run by Democrats have poverty problems and claiming that the correlation is causation. A very truthy statement.

            •  Deaths per hundred thousand is the metric (6+ / 0-)

              of comparison. Oranges to oranges. No adjustment required.

              You can try to control for whatever variables you like so long as you can defend your correlations from the truthiness charge that you so cutely level.

              I'll stick to the simple, countable numbers, thanks.

              ----- GOP found drowned in Grover Norquist's bathtub.

              When it all goes wrong, hippies and engineers will save us. -- Reggie Watts

              by JimWilson on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 11:12:31 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Oranges to Oranges Comparison? (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                LilithGardener

                I'll throw the NH-VT comparison back at you. Deaths per 100,000 rates in two states sharing a long border and similar settlement patterns. You seem to be happy to include gun regulation as an adjustment regarding MA.

                There has never been a protracted war from which a country has benefited. The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting. - Sun Tzu

                by OHeyeO on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 12:01:24 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Your border correlation fails badly; (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Wordsinthewind

                  Hawaii is 0.5/100,000 and Idaho is 0.8/100,000; very similar to NH.  Neither share a border with New Hampshire. One state doesn't even share a continent with NH.

                  And settlement pattern similarities? Need I say more?

                  I didn't mention anything of gun regulations in Massachusetts. You needn't put words in my mouth to further whatever point you're making.

                  ----- GOP found drowned in Grover Norquist's bathtub.

                  When it all goes wrong, hippies and engineers will save us. -- Reggie Watts

                  by JimWilson on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 12:26:11 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

              •  What he means is (0+ / 0-)

                what is the rate in Massachusetts if you take Charlestown and South Boston out of the picture?

                I've lost my faith in nihilism

                by grumpynerd on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 05:42:10 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

            •  The means - per hundred thousand (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              LilithGardener, FrankRose

              seems like a good metric to me.

              "let's talk about that"

              by VClib on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 03:38:58 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  It's what the CDC uses nt (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                VClib

                "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

                by LilithGardener on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 04:08:38 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Lies, damn lies & statistics (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  LilithGardener

                  Sure, deaths per 100K is the published statistic. To make VALID conclusions from it, one must eliminate other factors that influence the result.

                  People used to claim that whites were inherently smarter than blacks and I'm sure they had statistics to prove it. But it was bullshit unless you compared groups that had equal educational opportunities, including similar economic backgrounds, equivalent school quality and so forth -- to name just a few of the problems with making such a claim from raw statistics.

                  •  Yes, that's exactly right. (0+ / 0-)

                    The per 100,000 population is merely a neutral way to standardize the incidence across different populations. It can suggest areas for further study but can not be the sole basis for simple cause/effect conclusions.

                    I've been looking at maps of firearm fatalities, and firearm suicides. The risk of dying from a gunshot is not uniform across the country. Some may find it tempting to hang the differences on variations in gun ownership or gun laws that vary a lot from state to state, but it can't possibly be that simple. When I plot the risk of dying from a motor vehicle accident, that risk is not uniform across the country either, even though motor vehicle ownership rates and laws are more uniform across the country.

                    Richard Florida wrote two articles addressing the confounding variables:

                    The Geography of Gun Violence by Richard Florida, July 20, 2012
                    The Geography of Gun Deaths by Richard Florida, January 13, 2011

                    The map above charts firearm deaths for the 50 states plus the District of Columbia. Note that these figures include accidental shootings, suicides, even acts of self-defense, as well as crimes. As of 2007, 10.2 out of every 100,000 people were killed by firearms across the United States, but that rate varies dramatically from state to state. In Hawaii, at the low end, it was 2.6 per 100,000; in New York and New Jersey it was 5.0 and 5.2 respectively. At the high end, 21.7 out of every 100,000 residents of the District of Columbia were killed by guns, 20.2 in Louisiana, 18.5 in Mississippi, and 17.8 in Alaska. Arizona ranked eighth nationally, with 15.1 deaths per 100,000.

                    With these data in hand, I decided to look at the factors associated with gun deaths at the state level. With the help of my colleague Charlotta Mellander, we charted the statistical correlations between firearm deaths and a variety of psychological, economic, social, and political characteristics of states. As usual, I point out that correlation does not imply causation, but simply points to associations between variables.

                    "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

                    by LilithGardener on Mon Dec 23, 2013 at 09:25:24 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Correlations to gun violence (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      LilithGardener

                      Correlation isn't causation, but still, the list of things that are & aren't correlated to gun deaths is fascinating.

                      we found no association between gun violence and the proportion of neurotic personalities in any given state [or] higher levels of unemployment and higher levels of inequality... gun violence was higher in states with lower average incomes [and] less likely in states with more college graduates and stronger knowledge-based economies. Gun violence was also higher in states that tend to vote Republican... Firearm deaths are significantly lower in states with stricter gun control legislation.
                      The part about greater violence in a "'culture of honor' in which residents place an extraordinary value on personal reputation, family, and property" is also very interesting.
                      •  Yes, it is interesting. (0+ / 0-)

                        And that notion of honor/respect is part of gun culture in urban violence too. You might find Gary Slutkn's approach interesting, links in this comment thread or google The Interrupters and Chicago Ceasefire.

                        "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

                        by LilithGardener on Thu Dec 26, 2013 at 09:20:09 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

          •  And Vermont has basically no gun laws (4+ / 0-)

            except for these:

            No guns in schools.

            No guns in courthouses.

            That's it. Both concealed carry and open carry are legal without a permit almost anywhere in the state. And the Vermont gun nuts I've met are as crazy as any from Pennsylvania or Texas. The difference is, they aren't shooting each other!

          •  If you compare total firearms deaths (7+ / 0-)

            instead of just cherry picking out murder and neglecting all the other intents: suicides, accidents, undetermined and police shootings, New Hampshire is 8th in the nation, which is really quite good, almost 50% below the national average.

            N.H has 6.42 violence-related firearms fatalities/100,000.
            The national average is 10.16 firearm fatalities/100,000.

            But MA is number 2 in the nation, almost 1/3 of the national average.

            HI    2.81 fatalities/100,000 population
            MA    3.40
            RI    4.04
            NY    5.00
            CT    5.12
            NJ    5.21
            IA    6.40
            NH    6.42

            DATA - WISQARS CDC

            The goal of gun regulations is to make gun ownership, use and public carry safe for everyone. (h/t coquiero)

            "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

            by LilithGardener on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 12:04:15 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  The subject was 'terrorists' not 'gun accidents'. (3+ / 0-)

              Or suicides.

              Murders / 100,000 seemed more appropriate to the terrorism subject.

              ----- GOP found drowned in Grover Norquist's bathtub.

              When it all goes wrong, hippies and engineers will save us. -- Reggie Watts

              by JimWilson on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 12:29:00 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  gun terrorism = murder? (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Miggles

                Congratulations. You win the Master Reductionist Award for today!

                What do you call a gun bully sticking a gun in someone's face? Is that an invitation to chat?

                "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

                by LilithGardener on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 01:28:38 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  As soon as you find the terrorist death / 100,000 (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Wordsinthewind, FrankRose

                  inhabitants stats broken out by state, you'll be sure to let me know.

                  M'kay?

                  In the mean-time keep flogging your friends.

                  ----- GOP found drowned in Grover Norquist's bathtub.

                  When it all goes wrong, hippies and engineers will save us. -- Reggie Watts

                  by JimWilson on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 02:33:23 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  As I'm sure you know fatal terrorism is so rare (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Miggles

                    that it's not mapped, the rates don't inform policy in any way that relies on statistics.

                    You're reaction is understandable. Many people are uncomfortable confronting our ability to look away from the killings day in/day out, ~80 gun deaths per day.

                    Not my problem.
                    Not where I live.
                    Not my family.
                    Not me.

                    "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

                    by LilithGardener on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 03:20:40 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

            •  No reason to include suicides (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Neo Control

              If someone wants to kill themselves, that's their fundamental right to do so, and lack of a gun doesn't prevent suicide by other means.

              I'd take out police shootings as well, since we all know the police will never be disarmed.  If you're trying to judge the danger of armed citizens, it's not a factor.

              •  Seems reasonable (6+ / 0-)

                and a lot of people share your belief and that logic. Both are myths that appeal to preconceptions that rely on stereotypes and prejudice about mental illness.

                The facts are clear, firearm homicide and firearm suicides are both serious problems. Reducing your focus to murder only is just a way to minimize the toll of gun violence.

                Have you ever looked at homicide in context? Have you ever considered the big picture?

                Age Groups

                  10-14               15-24               25-34               35-44
                Cropped chart showing Top 5 leading causes of violenc-related death for ages 10-44, 2010. Full charts available for each year 2004 through 2010, 10LCID_Violence_Related_Injury_Deaths_2010-a.pdf, at http://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/LeadingCauses.html
                Figure II. Top 5 leading causes of violence-related death for ages 10-44, 2010
                The top five leading causes of violence-related death for ages 10-44. The chart for all ages is available at CDC-WASQARS for each year from 2004 through 2010.
                Ages 10-14  
                     Gun Homicides - 4th leading cause of death
                     Gun Suicides - 5th leading cause of death
                Ages 15-24
                     Gun Homicides - 2nd leading cause of death
                     Gun Suicides - 4th leading cause of death
                Ages 25-34
                     Gun Homicides - 3rd leading cause of death
                     Gun Suicides - 4th leading cause of death
                Ages 35-44
                     Gun Homicides - 5th leading cause of death
                     Gun Suicides - 3rd leading cause of death

                "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

                by LilithGardener on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 01:18:15 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Do you consider every suicide violent? (3+ / 0-)

                  If not, what form of suicide would you not consider violent?

                  "I'm a progressive man and I like progressive people" Peter Tosh

                  by Texas Lefty on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 02:09:33 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  No (0+ / 0-)

                    Their is a continuum of respect for the body.

                    At one extreme you have any manner of death that mutilates the corpse. I would consider all those to be violent deaths.

                    At the other end is Oregon's death with dignity law, where after screening and seeing 2 physicians you can get a prescription to self administer your own death surrounded by family/friends, at the time of your own choosing. Is that violent? No.

                    "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

                    by LilithGardener on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 04:06:50 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                •  You keep blaming the method, not the actor (3+ / 0-)

                  What leads you to believe that all those gun suicides wouldn't just become suffocation suicides?

                  And why do you think all those gun homicides wouldn't become knife homicides?  What, the urge to kill just vanishes without a gun?  Homicides occur for a reason.

                  But are you looking at the big picture? Go ban cars and poisons first.

                  •  Seems obvious and intuitive, doesn't it? (4+ / 0-)

                    Your ideas are widely shared. They seem intuitive, as if they are just common sense. But they are not true.

                    What leads you to believe that all those gun suicides wouldn't just become suffocation suicides?
                    Research.

                    I've learned to challenge my comfortable assumptions and look at the research. You may disagree, but I view firearm suicides as a public health matter.

                    The rate of gun suicide high and rising. A majority of gun deaths are suicides not homicides, accidents or police shootings. In some populations it is an epidemic; in veterans the rate has almost doubled in the past decade. Went they are temporarily relieved of their risk of shooting themselves, they don't choose a different method.

                    If you would like to challenge your assumptions, this diary series might interest you. In the Firearms Law and Policy group Hugh Jim Bissell and I have been reporting on firearms and suicide from a public health perspective.

                    Center for Disease Control Addresses Gun Violence
                    Guns and Suicide: Introduction
                    Guns and Suicide: Gun Suicides Rise and Fall with Gun Sales
                    Guns and Suicide: The Whos, Whats, and Whys of Guns and Suicide
                    Frank Talk About Risk - "I can't own a gun"
                    Weapons in Case of Confrontation - Youth and young adults at Risk
                    Guns and Suicide: Suicide Among Active-Duty Military and Veterans

                    "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

                    by LilithGardener on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 03:16:55 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Suicide is a right (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      FrankRose

                      It's not my place to torture someone by forcing them to go on living when they don't want to.

                      Now if you want to combat the root causes of suicide, do that. But gun ownership doesn't cause suicide.

                      •  But it makes it so much more attractive (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        LilithGardener, Oh Mary Oh
                        gun ownership doesn't cause suicide
                        Gun ownership does, however, facilitate suicide far better than other methods, and more efficiently. It allows temporary emotional upheaval and depression to efficiently conquer life with death. And allows the person to decide life and death for others (often family members) while accomplishing the suicide act.

                        Life's force is strong. The desire to not live is almost always temporary. Marketing more guns for more people just increases the likelihood a temporary feeling will result in a permanent solution when it otherwise would not have.

                        BTW - I find it strange you declare suicide a "right." I have not seen it written in any constitution. I also do not know of any religion that endorses it. What an odd way of  putting it. Living wills just state to withhold treatment and let nature take its course - with palliative care, of course. I haven't heard of any that specify a gun death.

                        There has never been a protracted war from which a country has benefited. The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting. - Sun Tzu

                        by OHeyeO on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 04:03:55 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  I can say the same thing about abortion (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          FrankRose

                          That's not in the constitution either, and can be defined as " It allows temporary emotional upheaval and depression to efficiently conquer life with death. And allows the person to decide life and death for others"

                          Are you pro-life?  Should we ban abortion and force mothers to give birth because you alone decide what's best for them?  So that "a temporary feeling doesn't result in a permanent solution"?

                          It's not my place to decide, it certainly isn't yours. And you most certainly don't get to drag superstitious religions into it. If someone wants to end their life with a gun, it is their choice to make.

                    •  Gun rights can be revoked for mental illness (0+ / 0-)

                      If you want to find all those suicidal people legally mentally ill through due process in court and take their guns away, fine, do that.  But you work at the individual level.

                    •  Gun ownership isn't mandatory (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      FrankRose
                      "I can't own a gun"
                      And an alcoholic can't own a bottle of whiskey. But I can. We don't take rights away from everyone because a few can't handle it.
                  •  Guns and Pillows (0+ / 0-)

                    Guns ARE more dangerous than pillows

                    What leads you to believe that all those gun suicides wouldn't just become suffocation suicides?

                    An HR from a member of the RKBA is like an F rating from the NRA
                    ---We Shall Overcome (12/3/13)---

                    by earlybird on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 04:53:47 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

              •  What a reprehensible thing to say. So if a gay (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Oh Mary Oh, LilithGardener

                or transgender teen takes his life with a gun, you say it doesn't matter because that's their right???  Try telling that to the families who have lost loved ones this way.  Firearms suicides are a huge part of the gun violence problem in this country, especially in the depopulated states with weak gun safety laws, and this type of gun violence most certainly should be counted and combatted.

            •  And considering that gun ownership (4+ / 0-)

              in MA is only 12.6% compared to NH at 30% we can safely say that while NH may have fewer murders/100,000 that success comes at considerable cost, more suicide, more accidents.

              Compared to New Hampshire:
              MA has 1/3 unintentional fatal shootings/100,000
              MA has 1/5 police fatal shootings/100,000
              MA has 1/3 gun suicides/100,000

              MA 1.6 fatal gun suicides/100,000
              NH 5.6 fatal gun suicides/100,000

              NH: Live free or die!

              MA: Live free and happy!

              WISQARS-CDC

              "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

              by LilithGardener on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 12:45:17 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Arguing that guns are dangerous is a straw-man (0+ / 0-)

                argument that is won by default. I get that you're against guns generally and generally I agree with you. You're safer if you don't own a gun, regardless of where you live.

                However. . . . .

                The fact remains that you are less likely to die by a murderous gun in NH than just about anywhere else in the nation including Massachusetts.

                Now if we could just find out how many terrorists died at the hand of their own guns in Massachusetts we'd have made a really full day of this.

                ----- GOP found drowned in Grover Norquist's bathtub.

                When it all goes wrong, hippies and engineers will save us. -- Reggie Watts

                by JimWilson on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 03:11:33 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  You're mistaken, but it's understandable (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Miggles

                  You're right that NH is one of the safest places to live in the country. But it's relatively safe neither because of the guns, nor in spite of the guns. Your comments are similar to a lot of people who become very, very defensive at the mention of gun violence, at the mention of any aspect of gun violence.

                  I'll repeat what I said earlier. Narrowing your focus to murder I&II is an easy way to minimize the problem. That doesn't mean it was intentional, and I don't mean to imply that. It's just common.

                  I'm not against guns generally. It's not the guns, it's certain habits and patterns of use. Miliions of people drink alcohol, some daily, and the vast majority don't become alcoholics and wreck their lives. I see guns the same way. Majority of problems are caused by a small number of gun owners.

                  "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

                  by LilithGardener on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 03:32:01 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  You're in a didactic rut. (0+ / 0-)

                    The gist of this thread is 'these people are terrorists because they display their guns at a political event'.  Unless they were planning on shooting themselves as a political protest, discussing suicide in this thread is really misplaced.

                    These folks need to be prosecuted under NH's criminal threatening laws which include threatening with guns.  

                    Please see my comment in the NH RSAs on this subject below.

                    ----- GOP found drowned in Grover Norquist's bathtub.

                    When it all goes wrong, hippies and engineers will save us. -- Reggie Watts

                    by JimWilson on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 03:47:29 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  That is an appropriate argument (3+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      JimWilson, Miggles, Oh Mary Oh

                      and is on point, instead of what you tried to do in this thread. If only you had opened your rebuttal with a good argument.

                      The defensiveness is understandable, the argument sucked.

                      Have a nice evening.

                      "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

                      by LilithGardener on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 03:59:10 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

            •  Suicide is irrelevant (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              FrankRose

              to the discussion of how dangerous such-and-such state is. As it can only be inflicted upon yourself, others have no reason to fear it.

          •  Very hard to kill someone (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            LilithGardener, Laconic Lib

            when nobody lives near you.  

            Alot easier when you're living on top of one another.  

            This is your world These are your people You can live for yourself today Or help build tomorrow for everyone -8.75, -8.00

            by DisNoir36 on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 12:29:56 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  And that's why diferent places have different laws (0+ / 0-)

              No reason to treat the entire nation like NYC.

              •  Shouldn't matter as far as laws (3+ / 0-)

                shooting someone dead should be illegal no matter where you live.  Owning something that you can use to shoot those people dead should be regulated the same way no matter where you live.  Otherwise someone from NH can go to NY and kill someone with a gun they obtained legally via some loophole with no background checks.  This patchwork of laws from state to state is utter bullshit.  The Federal gov't should at the very minimum be able to establish some national laws concerning guns and then if the states want to they can add onto those laws.    But that's not what we have.  Federal laws are weak as shit, we can't even pass a watered down background check law or close gaping loopholes.  

                This is your world These are your people You can live for yourself today Or help build tomorrow for everyone -8.75, -8.00

                by DisNoir36 on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 12:40:06 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Murder is illegal everywhere. (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Wordsinthewind, FrankRose

                  Stop focusing on the weapon, and focus on the murderer, if you want to change things.

                  How's the war on drugs going for you, with all those tough federal laws?  Has it stopped drug use by focusing on the supply?  No?  So why do you think that would work for guns?  A giant black market in guns will just magically fail to appear? The gangs and cartels won't take up a new avenue for profit?

                  We're better off with gun sales being legal.

          •  You have the lowest gun ownership and population. (0+ / 0-)

            This is the point where a state another fact, you are a god damn asshole. You have 30% gun ownership and small population. You are not safe because of gun laws.

          •  You have ~half the number of households w/ guns nt (0+ / 0-)
      •  I have no problem making terrorism a crime. (nt) (0+ / 0-)

        An HR from a member of the RKBA is like an F rating from the NRA
        ---We Shall Overcome (12/3/13)---

        by earlybird on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 04:45:14 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  I'm Pretty Sure (13+ / 0-)

      That only applies for political activists on the left.

      "I'll believe that corporations are people when I see Rick Perry execute one."

      by bink on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 09:39:49 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Good thing there is still a 4th amendment (7+ / 0-)

      Talk about an illegal search and seizure.  

      "I'm a progressive man and I like progressive people" Peter Tosh

      by Texas Lefty on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 10:28:29 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Use your guns to terrorize people, and you... (5+ / 0-)

        ...should lose those guns.

        I made no apologies for my position on this when those gun goons stalked and terrorized 4 mothers in that restaurant a while back with their guns

        Nor did I make any apologies when gun nuts terrorized innocient people and their families at OCCUPYPHEONIX  with their AK-15s.

        I make no apologies for it now.

        I see no reason to allow folks like this to keep their guns.

        If folks want to keep their guns, they need to stop using them for political bullying and terrorism.

         

        An HR from a member of the RKBA is like an F rating from the NRA
        ---We Shall Overcome (12/3/13)---

        by earlybird on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 03:15:51 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  In NH, this behavior might see you to a felony (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          LilithGardener, earlybird, FrankRose

          conviction. New Hampshire law makes threatening with a gun a criminal felony that is triggered [forgive the bad pun] by the reaction of the threatened, not the intent of the threaten-er.

          Herewith:

          631:4 Criminal Threatening. –
              I. A person is guilty of criminal threatening when:
                 (a) By physical conduct, the person purposely places or attempts to place another in fear of imminent bodily injury or physical contact; or
                 (b) The person places any object or graffiti on the property of another with a purpose to coerce or terrorize any person; or
                 (c) The person threatens to commit any crime against the property of another with a purpose to coerce or terrorize any person; or
                 (d) The person threatens to commit any crime against the person of another with a purpose to terrorize any person; or
                 (e) The person threatens to commit any crime of violence, or threatens the delivery or use of a biological or chemical substance, with a purpose to cause evacuation of a building, place of assembly, facility of public transportation or otherwise to cause serious public inconvenience, or in reckless disregard of causing such fear, terror or inconvenience; or
                 (f) The person delivers, threatens to deliver, or causes the delivery of any substance the actor knows could be perceived as a biological or chemical substance, to another person with the purpose of causing fear or terror, or in reckless disregard of causing such fear or terror.
              II. (a) Criminal threatening is a class B felony if the person:
                    (1) Violates the provisions of subparagraph I(e); or
                    (2) Uses a deadly weapon as defined in RSA 625:11, V in the violation of the provisions of subparagraph I(a), I(b), I(c), or I(d).
                 (b) All other criminal threatening is a misdemeanor.
              III. (a) As used in this section, "property'' has the same meaning as in RSA 637:2, I; "property of another'' has the same meaning as in RSA 637:2, IV.
                 (b) As used in this section, "terrorize'' means to cause alarm, fright, or dread; the state of mind induced by the apprehension of hurt from some hostile or threatening event or manifestation.
              IV. A person who responds to a threat which would be considered by a reasonable person as likely to cause serious bodily injury or death to the person or to another by displaying a firearm or other means of self-defense with the intent to warn away the person making the threat shall not have committed a criminal act under this section.
          and
          625:11 General Definitions. – The following definitions apply to this code.
              [ . . . . ]
              V. "Deadly weapon'' means any firearm, knife or other substance or thing which, in the manner it is used, intended to be used, or threatened to be used, is known to be capable of producing death or serious bodily injury.
              VI. "Serious bodily injury'' means any harm to the body which causes severe, permanent or protracted loss of or impairment to the health or of the function of any part of the body.

          ----- GOP found drowned in Grover Norquist's bathtub.

          When it all goes wrong, hippies and engineers will save us. -- Reggie Watts

          by JimWilson on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 03:34:58 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Except for use of that picture - they were (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          earlybird, Oh Mary Oh

          assembled for a photo and this is the side view. There is another photo from the front.

          But I share your outrage. There is no right under the 2A to create a menace with a gun. They were disturbing the peace. Ironically created a groundswell of newly awakened activists every time they stage these "events." If they repeat it against Texas Moms Demand Action, at some point they should be prosecuted for stalking.

          "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

          by LilithGardener on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 03:51:30 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  and a 5th and 14th amendment as well (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          FrankRose

          Sorry, you're just shitting all over the constitution.  

          "I'm a progressive man and I like progressive people" Peter Tosh

          by Texas Lefty on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 01:25:45 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  Come on, they're conservatives (0+ / 0-)

      Not like socialists that deserve to have their fish tanks smashed and the families made to sit and watch helplessly as their fish flop to death on the floor, and have personal papers including cash seized as "evidence".  That's the way a proper Holder Raid is conducted.

      “Washing one's hands of the conflict between the powerful and the powerless means to side with the powerful, not to be neutral. ” ― Paulo Freire

      by ActivistGuy on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 12:18:38 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  earlybird - I don't think it's a crime in NH (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      LilithGardener, FrankRose

      "let's talk about that"

      by VClib on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 03:37:18 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Aparently, terrorism isn't a crime in... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        LilithGardener

        ...Arizona, either, considering how those cops let JT Ready and his buddies terrorize OCCUPYPHEONIX with their AR-15s in that video above, and how they let him keep his AR-15 so that he could go on to engage in a massacre (including a 15 month old baby).

        Personally, I think that terrorism should indeed be made a crime.

        An HR from a member of the RKBA is like an F rating from the NRA
        ---We Shall Overcome (12/3/13)---

        by earlybird on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 05:24:42 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  While it is certainly regretable (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          LilithGardener, FrankRose

          that the 15 month old child was later killed, the police had no basis to arrest the man at the time of the video in the State of Nevada. It is not a crime to carry an AR15 on your shoulder. However, had he pointed the weapon at someone, in a threatening manner, that would be a crime. If he started shooting people, that could be a terrorist act. There are lots of cities, counties, and states where it's illegal to walk around with a gun in plain view, and if people do they can be arrested.

          "let's talk about that"

          by VClib on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 06:54:39 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  The cops had no basis to arrest him because... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            LilithGardener

            ...terrorism is perfectly legal in Arizona.

            So terrorists are allowed to use their guns to bully and intimidate people at political events and then allowed to keep their guns in order to facilitate future massacres.

            An HR from a member of the RKBA is like an F rating from the NRA
            ---We Shall Overcome (12/3/13)---

            by earlybird on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 09:05:49 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  my buddy's step-sister makes $81 an hour on the la (0+ / 0-)

      my buddy's step-sister makes $81 an hour on the laptop. She has been fired from work for five months but last month her check was $13290 just working on the laptop for a few hours. more information..........
      ======
      http://www.jobs76.com/
      ======

    •  what a thing to say. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      FrankRose

      They can carry their guns out in the open all they want.  Don't pee your pants when you see a gun for god's sake.

    •  Severe! Hypocritical!! (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      FrankRose

      You are suggesting that peaceful individuals not breaking any law be met with an aggressive & potentially deadly force simply for exercising their right to protest? Why, because it makes you uncomfortable? I'm sorry, but in this situation YOU are the one condoning violence, aggression, oppression, and potentially murder; not them! Their entire protest was peaceful.

      To further explain my argument: these protestors did not threaten anybody, nor indicate any motion to use their weapons to get their way. Meanwhile, this is exactly what you are doing, except instead of using 'your' weapons, you are using the 'state's' weapons to threaten people and get your way. Quite literally, you are promoting the use of firearms and violence in order to revoke a peaceful and law-abiding person's freedom. No laws were broken, and to label them a terrorist displays exactly how the vernacular of George W. Bush has poisoned the minds of even those who loathe him.

  •  Perhaps he and Liz Cheney could go hunting. (17+ / 0-)

    They could discuss dual-residency and shooting techniques.

    “For all you kids watching on C-Span, Boehner just is white.”

    by here4tehbeer on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 09:11:58 AM PST

  •  Tanks for Tots (23+ / 0-)
    The protest was organized by the New Hampshire Firearms Coalition, a Milford, New Hampshire-based group that calls itself the state’s “Only No Compromise Gun Rights Organization.” It labeled Brown a “liberal, anti-gun carpetbagger” in an e-mail to members urging them to attend the demonstration.

    The group displayed a black Colt Defense LLC-manufactured AR-15 rifle, two AR-15 grips and several high capacity magazines on a table in a park across the street from the fundraiser where donors gathered for the Brown event. The group also asked members to bring an unwrapped toy gun to donate to the Salvation Army for distribution to needy children for the holidays.

    “We need as many freedom-loving New Hampshire residents as we can get to show the Republican State Committee that they should not be supporting gun-banning candidates for U.S. Senate or any other office,” said one e-mail from the group.

    Warning - some snark may be above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 "I’m not the strapping young Muslim socialist that I used to be" - Barack Obama 04/27/2013

    by annieli on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 09:21:06 AM PST

    •  If politicians had ANY brains at all, (12+ / 0-)

      They'd be on board with some strict gun control, instead of encouraging yahoos with guns to show up at their political rallies and fundraisers.  This here is a vivid example of what happens when gun nuts are allowed out in public.  How long will it be before someone gets shot?  How long will it be before regular unarmed citizens will be afraid to turn up at political rallies, or town halls to speak to their representatives?
      Armed Brownshirts showing up at political events, intimidating politicians and citizens.  We already know where this story goes.  It's just a matter of time.

      •  People have already been shot by gun nuts who... (0+ / 0-)

        ...showed up at political events with their guns to intimidate and terrorize folks.

        JT Ready (the gun nut with the AR-15 in the video I posted above) went on to perpetrate a massacre (including a 15 month old baby) after the police let him keep his guns.

        An HR from a member of the RKBA is like an F rating from the NRA
        ---We Shall Overcome (12/3/13)---

        by earlybird on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 03:28:55 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  oh man. words fail me. (4+ / 0-)

      if a habitat is flooded, the improvement for target fishes increases by an infinite percentage...because a habitat suitability index that is even a tiny fraction of 1 is still infinitely higher than zero, which is the suitability of dry land to fishes.

      by mrsgoo on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 10:18:40 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  machoing from the Viliage Idiots (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    commonmass, annieli, JeffW, LilithGardener

    I want 1 less Tiny Coffin, Why Don't You? Support The President's Gun Violence Plan.

    by JML9999 on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 09:22:53 AM PST

  •  Guys like Brown talk a good game, but they have (16+ / 0-)

    absolutely no idea what things are like in Northern New England. Brown's finding out we don't take too kindly to Massachusetts carpetbaggers up here states like New Hampshire, Maine and Vermont.

    Up here in Maine, we don't have any use for the southern New England folks except between Memorial Day and Labor Day. ;)

    Pope Francis: the Thumb of Christ in the eyes of the Pharisees.

    by commonmass on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 09:36:56 AM PST

    •  Visited Maine once. (9+ / 0-)

      Heard the term 'Mass-holes' quite a few times.

      "The next time everyone will pay for it equally, and there won't be any more Chosen Nations, or any Others. Poor bastards all." ~The Boomer Bible

      by just another vet on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 09:41:02 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Me too (8+ / 0-)

        It was another world. Could hardly believe the concentration of seriously long beards. And people wearing suspenders. The "leave me alone" libertarian streak was palpable.

        Also there was a church with a giant billboard down the road from my friend's college (the reason for my visit) that proudly proclaimed, "IF EVOLUTION WERE REAL YOUR MOM WOULD BE A MONKEY"

        The natural scenery was beautiful and the lobster sushi was divine.

        I also lived in Massachusetts for a year and the difference between these two states was stark, even though I lived in  South Hadley (the more rural end of the state).

        I am highly amused to see any politician so horribly miscalculate local preferences.

        Is fheàrr fheuchainn na bhith san dùil

        by bull8807 on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 09:53:47 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Well, I'm a weird case: I was conceived in Maine (8+ / 0-)

          and born in Massachusetts so I'm considered "half from away" ("From Away" is what we call anyone who is not a native Mainer. ) Now, Maine does have that libertarian streak, though you'll notice that both of our congresscritters are Democrats (one of which is running for Governor and is openly gay), one Republican Senator, and an Independent Senator who is a former Democrat. We're not quite as backwater as what you describe, though, there is some of that to be sure.

          However, Maine, New Hampshire and Vermont are indeed very different animals compared to Massachusetts, RI and Connecticut. It starts with population: There are about 6.5 million Bay Staters, and about 1.3 million Mainers--nearly one-fifth of whom are Francophones. We're more rural in Maine, and we're more spread out.

          Now, that being said, what you might not know is this: Maine is the "whitest" state in the US and the least religious (both of these we tend to share with Vermont statistically). There is a little bible belt in Maine, which is where you may have seen that sign, but mostly, Mainers are fiercely independent, politically moderate, and highly in-bred. LOL.

          But we don't like outsiders, except between May and September, when we're delighted to take your money when you come on vacation.

          Pope Francis: the Thumb of Christ in the eyes of the Pharisees.

          by commonmass on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 10:11:52 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I found everyone quite friendly. (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            commonmass, LilithGardener, salmo

            And really enjoyed my visit to Starks. At least the parts I can remember. ; )

            "The next time everyone will pay for it equally, and there won't be any more Chosen Nations, or any Others. Poor bastards all." ~The Boomer Bible

            by just another vet on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 10:26:40 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Mainers can be quite friendly. (5+ / 0-)

              We call everyone--men to women, women to men, men to men, women to women--"Deah" ("Dear"). To strangers, everyone's "Deah". They mean it, too. We stick together.

              I will say this, however: if Scott Brown decided he'd rather run for office in, say, Kittery, which is just over the Piscataqua river from NH, instead of in NH, he'd be run out of this state on a rail. Besides, I don't believe Scott Brown has ever called anyone "Deah". However, folks in Eastern Mass, NH and Maine do have one part of dialect in common: "Wicked pissah". Which Scott Brown is most certainly not.

              Pope Francis: the Thumb of Christ in the eyes of the Pharisees.

              by commonmass on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 10:32:44 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  I must admit I had a hard time understanding (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                commonmass, LilithGardener

                some of the things people said to me. I thought Texas accents were crazy till I went to Maine.

                Here's hoping he doesn't try.

                "The next time everyone will pay for it equally, and there won't be any more Chosen Nations, or any Others. Poor bastards all." ~The Boomer Bible

                by just another vet on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 10:38:09 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  I lived in Texas for twenty years, by the way, (5+ / 0-)

                  and I agree with you. A real Coastal Maine or Down East accent is difficult to understand, though sadly, it's disappearing fast.

                  But there are still several distinctive regional accents here in Maine: Southern Maine, which sounds a lot like a "Boston" accent but with broader vowels and distinctive words like "cunnin' ", which means "cute", and "dooryard", which means the area outside the door you use most to enter your house, not necessarily your "front" door.

                  Another is "Down East". Like Texas, it's a linguistic "drawl".

                  The third is the "French" accent, the accent in English as spoken who grew up speaking French.

                  I've lived all over the world and didn't even have to be in the military to do it, and I have to say, Maine is the coolest place I've ever lived. Plus, I came from here. And I'm damned proud of it.

                  Pope Francis: the Thumb of Christ in the eyes of the Pharisees.

                  by commonmass on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 10:45:47 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  it's a continuum of dialect from boston north (4+ / 0-)

                    I grew up with a boston accent (which i shed when i went into theater). It is noticeably different than a Noath Shoah accent, which is more like a Boston accent than southwestern New Hamsheah, which in turn ain't nearly as Maine as Mainers. Going north, it trends toward the Quebeciose.
                    I've been in Vermont for over twenty years, and i hear a similar phenomenon here; the Northeast Kingdom maple farmers can barely communicate with the college crowd in Bennington.

                    what is REALLY weird is Canadians from Ottawa to Inuvik have virtually the same dialect and accent. The atlantic provinces have their own, and then there's Quebec of course, but the homogeneity of the speech patterns all across the bulk of Canada was striking to me.

                    Last full month in which the average daily temperature did not exceed twentieth-century norms: 2/1985 - Harper's Index, 2/2013

                    by kamarvt on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 11:20:56 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  The best job capturing the Maine accent (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      commonmass, LilithGardener

                      in a film was by Kathy Bates in Stephens King's  'Dolores Claiborne'.

                      There are a few great commercials that get it right-
                      the one for an indoor fleamarket and Renys, home of camos and Carhartt for the whole family.

                      I get these in NH thanks to Fox from Maine.
                      Don't judge me- i love Big Bang Theory.

                      'A scarlet tanager broke the silence with his song. She thought of the bird hidden in the leaves somewhere, unseen but nevertheless brilliant red. Nevertheless beautiful.' Barbara Kingsolver/ Prodigal Summer

                      by flowerfarmer on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 03:27:47 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  I most certainly won't judge anyone (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        flowerfarmer

                        who loves Big Bang Theory: Jim Parsons is a personal friend of mine from way back (the guy who plays Sheldon).

                        Renys is a wonderful little department store, and more than just Carhartts and and Woolrich.

                        If you get a Maine station, look for ads for Mardens. THERE you will hear some crazy Maine accent.

                        I disagree with the Cathy Bates thing. She got close, but the problem with all New England accents is that no one who is not from here can really do one. Even Matt Damon, who is from Cambridge, MA, can't even really do one.

                        Pope Francis: the Thumb of Christ in the eyes of the Pharisees.

                        by commonmass on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 03:51:03 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Forgot Mah-dens (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          commonmass

                          My dad grew up in Maine and, altho he lost whatever overriding accent he may have had, it did sneak in inn certain words.

                          I agree that a non- New Englander usually butchers the accent- the Affleck brothers do a better job, Casey in particular, than Matt.

                          I first noticed Jim Parsons in a commercial a few years before Big Bang- forget if it was for a bank- an interview scene anyway- and there was just that spark- it was obvious that he was quirky and talented.

                          'A scarlet tanager broke the silence with his song. She thought of the bird hidden in the leaves somewhere, unseen but nevertheless brilliant red. Nevertheless beautiful.' Barbara Kingsolver/ Prodigal Summer

                          by flowerfarmer on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 04:03:28 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

            •  True story (0+ / 0-)

              Ayuh, i swapped a broken down plow truck for a broken down snowmobile in Starks a couple of years ago.  Nice folk, didn't hold it against us when the plow truck came off the trailer and slid down their hill 'cause it didn't have no brakes neither.  

      •  Same in NH dialect (4+ / 0-)

        especially for drivers with MA plates (who generally deserve the epithet). The legal community had more polite ways of saying the same about Mass. attorneys who came across the border to practice in NH courts but brought their Mass. ethics with them.

        And the border is often referred to as the Mason-Dixon line, that's how strongly people feel about it -- and not just the rednecks.

        I'm curious which NH GOP politicians and political advisors are advising Brown -- or does he think he doesn't need any local advice?

        •  RI and MA drivers are the worst, followed, I'm (3+ / 0-)

          sad to say, by NH drivers. The best drivers in New England are Mainers, probably because all our cars are beaters and couldn't drive over 65 on the interstate if you really pushed them. Plus, we use signals and don't tailgate. ;)

          Seriously, I used to live in Massachusetts, in Boston in fact, and having lived in Maine for the last 6 years or so, I get nervous every time I cross the Piscataqua Bridge into NH and nearly had a heart attack last time I was on Storrow Drive in Boston.

          Pope Francis: the Thumb of Christ in the eyes of the Pharisees.

          by commonmass on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 10:18:57 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Why The Interstate Hate? (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          LilithGardener, Boston to Salem

          Can some of you northeasterners, New England specifically, speculate on what all this apparent hostility towards folks from neighboring states is about? Has some sort of familiarity-breeds-contempt syndrome broken out?

          I live in NW Oregon, 20 minutes from the Washington State border, been here since 1975 after leaving Cali, and folks here on either side of the border just don't those sort of issues, neither is there any hostility between those in southern Oregon and northern California that I've picked up on (spent a lot of time in s. Oregon too).

          Really, just wondering, it doesn't make any sense to me.

          You meet them halfway with love, peace, and persuasion ~ And expect them to rise for the occasion...

          by paz3 on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 12:15:37 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Me either (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            LilithGardener

            And I live in MA, and travel to NH, ME and VT regularly for work and pleasure. Spent last weekend in gorgeous, snowy NH and enjoyed myself immensely. I don't know what "hostility" these folks are talking about.  

            Lisa :)

            All Kossacks are my allies, but if you can't express your thoughts in a civil and kind manner, I won't be engaging in a conversation with you.

            by Boston to Salem on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 01:19:20 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  Being antiEastern Massachusetts has a long history (0+ / 0-)

            The ancient antipathy for some asshole from Boston with a briefcase is well earned.  We seceded from Massachusetts in 1820 to break as many of the mercantilist policies imposed from that Commonwealth as possible.  It was a good start.  But that would have disappeared into the mists of time had it not been reinforced within the last couple of decades.

            Prosperity is hard won, especially from the rocky soils of Northern New England farms and forests, and remote coast of Maine.  You can see signs of more prosperous times, though, in most of our towns and cities - when money circulated locally and global capital wasn't extracting most of the profits.  The purchase of local industries by national (and multi-national) corporations had devastating consequences for that relative wealth over time.  Bain Capital may be today's poster child for vulture capitalism, but the predatory and extractive nature of national corporations has been obvious for some time.  In the 19th and early 20th centuries around Northern New England, those predatory capitalists came from Boston.  A lot of those industries have been closed within memory.  The great de-industrialization has left scars in my town such as the closed furniture factory, the closed bakery, and the closed paper mill just over the Notch.  You don't have to know much about economics to know we were screwed.  And the residents may not understand the business details, but they do know it was always some asshole from Boston with a briefcase that did the deed.  

            I think what you are hearing in that anti-regional attitude is the echo of that reality.  Enter Scott Brown - an asshole from Massachusetts with a briefcase if there ever was one.  What is going to happen to him, if he keeps this up, couldn't happen to a more deserving guy.  Run Scott, run!

            •  That Explains A Lot (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              salmo

              Here in the (US) Pac. Northwest, there hasn't been a history of the sort of exploitation you describe (except for that of Indians), so that explains a lot!

              Thanks!

              You meet them halfway with love, peace, and persuasion ~ And expect them to rise for the occasion...

              by paz3 on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 05:40:57 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

        •  Scott is not one of those (0+ / 0-)

          Scott Brown is not one of those "Mass. attorneys who came across the border to practice in NH courts."  He cannot practice in a NH court (except on a limited basis) because he has never bothered to get himself admitted to the NH Bar.

          His current (ostensible) employer is the Boston-based law firm of Nixon Peabody, which has a large office in Manchester, NH.

  •  Imagine that occasion where NOT having a gun is OK (8+ / 0-)

    for these fellows.

    They'd go in with automatic rifles to the delivery of a baby, just in case it arrived packing heat.

    If someone advocated a ban on carrying a firearm while tightrope-walking the Grand Canyon, they'd be up in arms against that too.

    Going to pick up the kids at school would be a non-starter for this set. After all, there might be some crazy gun-toting person there.

    Other than themselves, that is.

  •  Don't get it (11+ / 0-)

    Those of us who walk through life fully secure and confident in our manhood just don't understand guys who have to resort to phallic enhancement in the form of a semi-automatic rifle to make themselves whole and compensate for an apparent inadequacy. Wonder what that's like...glad I'll never know. :)

    The Bush Family: 0 for 4 in Wisconsin

    by Korkenzieher on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 10:05:25 AM PST

  •  He can't go too macho/misogynist (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    PinHole, JeffW, LilithGardener

    Shaheen is quite popular, and even the Republicans voted for Sen. Ayotte the last time around, and with two women in Congress and the governor's office, and more in the court system, it's clear that super-macho and dismissing the little woman and all that no longer play very well, even in NH.

  •  Hahahahaha! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dirtandiron, JeffW

    Talk about schadenfreude!  

  •  Scott Brown,naked and unafraid! (0+ / 0-)

    Hard to decide who I favor in this ridiculous masquerade, the NRA profit minded baby killers who oppose Brown or he who will fly the Republibot flag as  lobbyist money and  multiple war bloodied stained as it is and always will be.

    Hard to imagine how protected school children will be when there are 30 or more of them on a bus driven by a retired grocery clerk with bad eyes keeping them on the road and the kids when the police are 20 miles away !

  •  Note to Brown: Kevlar lining for barn coat (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    commonmass, JeffW, jasan

    And is ballistic armor for a pickup truck a valid campaign expense?  

    Change does not roll in on the wheels of inevitability, but comes through continuous struggle. --Martin Luther King Jr.

    by Egalitare on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 10:27:56 AM PST

    •  Brown is having his campaign foot the bill for (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      FiredUpInCA

      the new gun rack to be installed in his pickup and fitted with three spanking new AK-47s that have been converted to full auto.  He is also considering the installation of a 50-caliber machine gun above each headlight.

      When all else fails, try thinking!

      by edtheengineer on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 11:23:12 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Looks like Orville Redenbacher.... (5+ / 0-)

    ...better send emergency shipments to New England pronto!

    "Ronald Reagan is DEAD! His policies live on but we're doing something about THAT!"

    by leftykook on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 10:36:17 AM PST

  •  hahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LilithGardener, ZappoDave

    hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

    [GASP]

    hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha


    "The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance, but to overcome it" - Dr. Lawrence Krauss

    by AlyoshaKaramazov on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 12:07:34 PM PST

  •  Brilliant diary by nominalize on the topic (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    zmom, Miggles

    "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

    by LilithGardener on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 12:08:16 PM PST

  •  "Cahn't get they-yah from Hey-yah." (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LilithGardener, ZappoDave, Oh Mary Oh

    Don't leave angry Mr Brown..... just leave.

  •  Poor Scotty. Rock and a hard place. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LilithGardener, ZappoDave, Miggles

    The GOP has made things difficult by catering to crazies.

    Ed FitzGerald for governor Of Ohio. Women's lives depend on it. http://www.edfitzgeraldforohio.com/

    by anastasia p on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 02:53:53 PM PST

  •  Scott Brown doesn't seem to have many actual (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LilithGardener, ZappoDave, Oh Mary Oh

    personal convictions.

    Hopefully in New Hampshire that will be viewed as a liability.

    Who do the Democrats have to offer?

  •  Imagine 200 BLACK gun owners doing that (4+ / 0-)

    In NH, or anywhere.

    Good thing they were just nermal, christian, law abiding, patriotic white folks. Threatening violence and murder if they don't get their way.

    How quaint.

    On the other hand. This is what we call karma, Snotty. You riled these assholes up. Now you can look down the barrel of their guns.

    Peace on Earth was all it said.

    by BobBlueMass on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 03:09:24 PM PST

  •  Hey Scott (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    earlybird

    nothing to worry about here - This is just an everyday mob of right wing gun toting wackos! Or in other words. The Republican base.

    I'm pretty sure that if you have persons showing up bringing guns -- it's no longer a "protest" or "demonstration" - when it's armed -- it's something else.

  •  Wait..I thought CARPETBAGGERS... (0+ / 0-)

    were run out on a rail, after being tarred and feathered.

    Proud to be part of the 21st Century Democratic Majority Party of the 3M's.. Multiracial,Multigender and MiddleClass

    by LOrion on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 06:37:57 PM PST

  •  Brandishing vs Holstered (0+ / 0-)

    Hey folks,
    This article about New Hampshire got my attention and even though I'm new around here, I wanted to say something about it. I see a few people are quite shocked that protestors would show up armed (I think one person even said they should be charged with terrorism?!?!!) In the State of New Hampshire it is perfectly legal to open carry or concealed carry without a permit in almost all public places. However, that does not permit individuals to brandish their weapon, or to use it as a tool of *intimidation. I find it extremely unlikely that anybody there was mishandling or brandishing their firearms; not only because it's illegal, but because they were surrounded by a hundred armed and safety conscience gun-wielding activists.

    If a hundred-some people are peacefully protesting, and happen to have pistol's strapped to their waist, than what does it matter? If nobody is pointing a loaded weapon at anybody, than there is no crime and the individuals are simply exercising their rights of assembly, and to armed self-defense. [Don't believe me? Answer me this: how many people were shot at this protest?]

    Make no mistake! If an armed MOB were to appear in the streets, with gun fire, aggression, shotguns and rifles being waved in the air, carried by a vicious & angry chant... than police force would certainly be expected (as would the following criminal charges), and such a mob would likely be met with an aggressive and deadly force. This is by no measure what was going on in New Hampshire!!

    The difference between an armed protest and an unarmed protest is that the unarmed protests are more commonly mistreated by police in riot gear. Also, the unarmed protestors more frequently have their first amendment right to peacefully assemble violated. A very recent example of this happening took place in Durham, NC, during a protest against the police for their alleged murder of a 17 year old boy.

    Anyway, I hope I was able to shed some light on this issue. I know some of you will have your conception of the 'gun-totin' NRA redneck' who's going to shoot his policy into law, and I really doubt my words will change that. I just wanted to explain the difference between a mob and a peacefully, armed protest.

    *Intimidation: Being intimidated by a gun is different than someone using a gun for intimidation. To see a person's holstered side arm and immediately wetting yourself does not make them a criminal, it makes you a coward. If, however, a person draws their side arm, points it at you, and starts yelling at you.. that is a misuse of a firearm.

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