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I really, totally am. Goddamnit.

I have a friend at work who is one of the sweetest people I've ever met. She broke her leg in 3 places over a month ago, which will most likely require surgery, and (of course) she's still on crutches. She went to the fabric store last weekend to get some thread and was knocked over (get this fucking shit) five times by five different people!

Who the hell knocks down a chick on crutches?! Assholes, that's who.

American assholes.

We got Phil Robertson shoving his Duck Dynasty homophobic and racist bullshit down our throats, we got that bully dickhead Chris Christie, we got Kimye, we got no more unemployment, we got our military families having to fend for themselves, we got Justin Bieber Miley Cyrus, we got no laws protecting the earth from global warming, we got craptastic "lawmakers" suggesting that poor kids work for lunch money, we got some dbag school principal (principal! PRINCIPAL!) calling a student "it" and a "dyke", we got teabaggers, we got overseas wars we can't seem to break away from, we got Mark Zuckerberg, we got no more jobs, we got a meningitis outbreak, we got a gridlocked and dumbass Congress, we got a political system that is patently FUBAR, and we got a society where more people vote weekly for fucking American Idol than they do for the President of the United States.

Oh, yeah. And we got guns. We have a metric fuckton of guns, and a broken healthcare system to boot that doesn't protect society from maniacs who desperately needed mental healthcare so that they wouldn't snap and shoot up a school, hospital, office building, church, movie theater, or any public place where people generally tend to congregate.

Which is, ya know, outside.

I live in Colorado. I have fucking had it up to here! with guns, and gun fanatics, and ammo, and shooting ranges, and 2nd amendment crap. I. have. fucking. had. it. I am done. Stick a fork in me.

I'm sick of reading about Arapahoe High School, and Columbine High School, and the Aurora movie theater shootings. My heart aches at what I have had to talk to my child about, just so Little Shiz is prepared in the event of a gun-wielding psychopath coming after her and her friends during math class.

This is just not right. Something is definitely askew with this country, and I'm looking for a quick exit because I am not sure that the United States can right itself again.

Can it?

I don't know the names of each and every Nobel laureate (except for Barack Obama), but I do know the names of a subculture of awful Americans. Do you want to know whose names I have more than a passing familiarity with, simply because they have been ingrained into the US psyche?

I will tell you. Yes, yes I will.

Jeffrey Dahmer. Ed Gein. Ted Kaczynski. Aileen Wuornos. Ted Bundy.

Adam Lanza.

James Holmes.

Dylan Klebold.

Eric Harris.

Karl Pierson.

I know these names only because I keep current with national events, but don't fool yourselves here:  every middle-aged American knows the exact same names, and for the exact same reasons.

We are not stupid.

It's sad, really. We are collectively worse for it, as a people.

I don't seek out fucked up specials on the Biography network, fer chrissakes. I want to be spared a Congressional hearing about the devastating carnage these sick people inflicted unto their communities. I want to feel some semblance of guilt from them, honestly. I want them to blossom into kickass people, with impeccable reputations and sad but necessary songs about oppression and alienation.

Simply put, I figured that flowers would do well in life, but, to be quite honest, their general well-being cannot encompass everything.

They do not know the whole truth. Nothing, ever, takes on the long view, no matter how hard it tries.

With that, I bid you adieu.

Not because I'm tired and shit (which I definitely am), but because I no longer know what to say.

Americans suck, man. That's all I know about it. Try to care for yourselves and your friends and your families here.


UPDATE: Sorry I wasn't around for the comments. I was exhausted, emotionally and physically.

I'll be writing another diary in the days to come about things I love about this country. I might be a short diary, but I figure it's good to be grateful on occasion. :)

Originally posted to I don't think you're ready for this jelly. on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 12:13 AM PST.

Also republished by Shut Down the NRA.

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    If I turn into another, dig me up from under what is covering the better part of me. -- Incubus

    by Colorado is the Shiznit on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 12:13:38 AM PST

  •  I have been thinking of Canada except dual (14+ / 0-)

    citizenship might screw up some clearances and such that I have since I have to periodically fill out forms asking such questions as if I have ever renounced my citizenship.

    I am not sure how dual citizenship might be viewed in answering such questions.  However Canada does look like a happier place and one of my cousins did relocate to Guatemala.  However the political situation there concerns me while any Euro country might be beyond my financial means

    •  I am a dual citizen.... (13+ / 0-)

      I am not sure about the legalities but Canada doesn't care what you do, you don't have to renounce anything. On the American end I don't know, however, they did not ask me to renounce my citizenship in Canada when I became American. You just had to swear allegiance. I became an American citizen for two reasons, I thought it would make my then husband happy and I wanted to vote. Now it seems like a waste of time because I want to try and find work in Canada near my mother so I can help her out. She is a young senior now but who knows in a few years...

      •  speaking as a 61 yo, don't be surprised if your (6+ / 0-)

        mother does not prove to be very tenacious in retaining her independence

        •  I have a vague plan.... (10+ / 0-)

          If I can find a full time job in the area then I am going to try and buy a house and just move her in. For financial reasons retirement is not going to be coming very soon and I don't want to be in the position of having to commute hours back and forth to help her out. She is 73 now, I am 49 and really I won't be surprised to still be working at 70. I am divorced with no kids so I am trying to arrange it to suit both of us. Of course that relies on several factors all coming together properly.

          •  my daughter wants to move me in with her (14+ / 0-)

            I have pointed out to her that I have my own home and intend to die here.  Granted I am alone and have had a couple of falls  but I have managed to cope and intend to continue to adapt to any changing conditions.

            •  My parents both lived in their homes and died (17+ / 0-)

              there or in Mom's case, at a local hospital without hours of admission. They both died of complications of cancer in their mid 70s.

              They were actually almost relieved to stay out of a nursing home and keep living in their homes considering all of my grandparents lived to be quite elderly and died in nursing homes..all of them , same with great aunts and uncles, all died in nursing homes.

              Mom retired from working as a nurse in a nursing home so she never wanted to be a patient there, fortunately she was not.

              When Dad was in home hospice, he mentioned he got what his parents and in laws never got..the chance to die in his home and not live to be senile, elderly and die in a nursing home.

              People found my parents weird to be relieved to be dying a little younger before the age of 80 if it meant dying in their homes and Not a Nursing Home.

              Keystone Liberals on Twitter @ KeystoneLibs , Join PA Liberals at

              by wishingwell on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 06:05:01 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  Entlord, you can always get one of those emergency (9+ / 0-)

     for advertised on TV.

              I have heard they are not cheap but they enable people to live in their homes longer and provide some peace of mind.

              My husband, with the arthritis in his feet, he would get one if something happened to me. My husband still works fulltime but there are times , especially in the morning,...when he cannot walk for a while and he could easily fall and he has almost fallen a few times.

              Keystone Liberals on Twitter @ KeystoneLibs , Join PA Liberals at

              by wishingwell on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 06:07:37 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  You need to do everything to avoid a fall in (9+ / 0-)

                the first place. Like stay put if you are unsteady. Etc. I have arthritis bad in other places, four joint replacements, but it must be hard to have it in your feet. Does he use a walker at home?

                I fell in a parking lot this summer and it was horrible. At least I didn't die or get a concussion though fell flat on my face hard and huge bruise on forehead, bump still there, scar tissue 5 mo. later. But badly bruised leg and broken radial bone. That's not the point of my comment though.

                It is very tough to recover, emotionally, when you get hurt suddenly like that. You feel so vulnerable and scared of repeating it! I've read that falls can be, for elderly, the "beginning of the end." This was my 5th and by far worse and I live alone and fairly isolated. You literally have to pick yourself and dust yourself off! Because if you don't just push through each day it gets you down. A nurse told me, 2 mo. on that I was an inspiration, showing you could recover, have a positive attitude. I was surprised but she said many people do not do that. Soft falls which I had before are not so bad but hard ones can be awful.

                Then there's the woman in the P.O.the other day, looking weak, feeling faint, had fallen and broken bones in both legs since OCTOBER!! And there she was, against Dr. orders walking without any assistance, on her own. She was probably 75-80. Sheesh.

                "extreme concentration of income is incompatible with real democracy.... the truth is that the whole nature of our society is at stake." Paul Krugman

                by Gorette on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 07:25:10 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  problem for me is I fell on my bad shoulder (6+ / 0-)

                  the one the bull broke in 2000.  I have a steel bar for a humerus and a plate in my shoulder and screws in tuberosities following the surgery

                •  I can relate to your comment, Gorette (8+ / 0-)

                  I fell on my walk 2 weeks ago and broke my ankle. I contacted the property owners who gave me the company who handles their insurance.
                  The person I spoke with told me to go to the ER to get checked out.
                  I asked her 3 times if this means that they will cover my medical bills. She said yes.
                  I saw the surgeon yesterday, and the billing person told me that the person handling my case hasn't decided if they will take my case.
                  The surgeon wanted to operate Monday, but I told him my situation, so we have to put it off for 2 weeks and hope that the break will heal on its own. If not, he will have to rebreak it and put in a plate.
                  I have been thru hell for so many years, and I am usually able to hold things together.
                  But I haven't cried as much in 5 years as I have in the last 2 weeks.
                  Just so overwhelmed and have no family that can really help out.
                  On top of that, I have 2 6 week old pups that need attention. And that is so hard. Hard to clean their room where they stay.
                  And it has snowed over a foot this week, and I got a citation from the city about the snow on the walk.
                  Today, I saw someone out shoveling and asked if they could help me out, since my drive is steep, and I need to go to the store.
                  Thankfully, this guy did my drive.
                  Looking for advice on this. If I fell at a business place that has given me permission to walk there, aren't they covered under their insurance?
                  Doesn't that insurance have to pay?
                  I will have to look in to getting a lawyer I guess.
                  But it is so hard holding things together when I don't get a break.

                  SORRY FOR THE TYPOS. Ziggy fingers on an Ipad :)

                  by snoopydawg on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 10:45:56 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Any advice? (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Colorado is the Shiznit


                    SORRY FOR THE TYPOS. Ziggy fingers on an Ipad :)

                    by snoopydawg on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 12:04:11 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  :/ (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:

                      I don't have any advice for you really, but I'm so sorry you're having to go through this.

                      Best to you, man. Sending you lots of love and good thoughts!

                      If I turn into another, dig me up from under what is covering the better part of me. -- Incubus

                      by Colorado is the Shiznit on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 01:11:08 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  What state are you in, first of all? Was your (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      snoopydawg, Gorette

                      fall caused due to any negligence on the part of the business?  If so, what kind and to what extent?

                      What percentage would you give the relation to their negligence as a business, who has invited you in and thus should take proper prudent care to insure your safety under reasonable circumstances, versus your own negligence, if any existed, (such as you had on 5 inch stilettos on a rainy day and said business was an outdoor venue...or you were running because you were late or whatever) or was the fall just a force of nature (basically simply a true accident).

                      I might can help you further, once I know these details.

                      I can tell you that you can not just fall at a business and get hurt and then it is automatic thing that they are required to pay even if they have the best insurance...unless there was some sort of negligence on their part.  Depends on the state, of course, but this is pretty universal.  However, even if their negligence was very minor you can still recover a percentage if some percentage was their fault but you must prove that.

                       If it was a true accident with no negligence on either party, of any kind, then generally you might have to cover yourself.  

                      •  Thanks for responding, Bailey. (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Bailey2001, Gorette

                        I am in UT and I walk at a cemetary with my dogs. For over 3 years.
                        I have asked the owner if it was ok that we walk there and he said yes.
                        I have spoken to him and his staff many times and they have always said we were welcomed there.
                        It was a snowy day and they were plowing the roads. But there was still a lot of ice on the roadss.
                        Since it felt icey, I moved over to where it was more packed.
                        My R foot slipped on some ice and my L foot turned under and I fell on top of it.
                        I called and spoke with the owner and he called their attorney, and gave me his number too.
                        He seemed very concerned.
                        When I called their insurance agency, the lady assigned me an agent and case number.
                        I asked her 3 times if I would be covered under their program and if I had the ok to go to the ER.
                        She told me yes.
                        3 times I confirmed that they would cover me and she said yes.
                        Accident was  12/7, ER was 12/14, and I saw the surgeon 12/20.
                        The billing lady told me the adjuster hadn't decided if they were taking my case yet.
                        The surgeon wanted to surgery this Monday, but I explained I might not have coverage, so we are waiting to see what they will do.
                        I have a witness who heard the owner give us permission to walk there.
                        The only thing I want is medical coverage. I am not interested is suing the cemetary.
                        There was a guy in the snow plow that may have seen me trying to get back to my car. He went by me 4 times.
                        Thanks again.

                        SORRY FOR THE TYPOS. Ziggy fingers on an Ipad :)

                        by snoopydawg on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 09:47:53 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  I would definitely talk to an attorney in your (2+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          snoopydawg, Gorette

                          area, if you think they were negligent at all.  Most would likely take the case with no upfront retainer (if they feel there is some reason to suggest that you would prevail) in a personal injury case.  If there was some negligence on the part of the business, most likely you will get a settlement offer without it ever going to trial.  

                          Now, with that said, and only going on what you have told me, and I am going on the very general of what you sounds as if it might be a hard one to collect on.  

                          Here's why:

                          1. They gave permission to walk there and for 3 years no incident.  (had you fell on the first trip...or in the first week or two, then perhaps something could have been said that they shouldn't have given permission, and were negligent in doing so, as it is a cemetery and not a nature trail.  However, as it was....3 years have lapsed and no prior injuries or dangerous situations, so they and you should have assumed it was safe and they had no need to make the area "safer" for your walks.  A cemetery is a place in which people walk around. Even if it is not a normal place to walk for pleasure in a general sense...still it is a place in which people exit their cars and walk to their loved one who has passed.  So as long as the cemetery considered the place a safe place in which a human being and a dog could walk around without injury and kept the place up to par for that activity....then giving you permission to stroll each day was not a negligent act.

                          2.  They were plowing the roads.  This is a big one.  They were taking prudent care to maintain the area and doing so to make the area safe for walking around and likely driving.  Had they not plowed or were asked to plow and chose not too...then you would likely have a case.  However, they were plowing and in the act of doing so.  Even if the snow was still falling or the road still icy, they were taking the care needed to prevent injury and doing so in a prudent manner.

                          3.  You chose to walk in the packed area.  Whether or not this would be considered "more safe" or "less safe" in the eyes of those judging the case, is a call that could be 50/50.  I really can't decide myself.

                          4. The insurance lady is not the cemetery, even if their policy is through them.  Almost every time you call or write an insurance company they have a disclaimer that states that any information given to you by an representative is based on what is known at the time of the call/letter or whatever.  This includes guarantees of coverage.  If she only knew you fell and knew nothing more, she had no way of knowing if indeed you would be covered.  They will likely only cover you in a fall in which the cemetery is obviously negligent, hence the reason for the delay in an answer. They are most certainly, as we speak, determining any fault and who's fault it was.

                           She can't guarantee coverage when she does not know the circumstances of the fall beyond your statement.  Now, was she negligent in telling you that you were indeed covered?  Yes, perhaps, maybe.  Would that be the insurance's fault and not the cemetery?....yes, absolutely.   Could you perhaps recover for the first trip and visit to the ER because she told you to go that day?  Yes, I would think so....if you can prove this, and likely there is a recording.  Beyond that first visit to the ER?...likely you were then told that coverage was not guaranteed.

                          This does not mean the cemetery can't use their own money to cover your fall, just for good relations with the community. It is possible they would and has been known to happen.  You might try there first, considering you have had a pleasant relationship with them in the past.  

                          •  Thanks again for responding (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:

                            If the insurance turned me down, I had planned to talk with the owner and see if he could help me.
                            I met him a few days after my fall and he was concerned about my foot and asked if I had gotten in touch with the attorney.
                             I agree with your assestment.
                            I am unemployed with no insurance, so if I don't get some help, i will just have to let it heal on its own.
                            The doc said that it is possible since the tendons are intact.
                            Plus I have a Scenar device that can help.
                            If you are interested about Scenar therapy, you can learn more at
                            I used this device the 1st day and the swelling went down over 75 percent.
                            I use it now twice a day.
                            Thanks again for your help.

                            SORRY FOR THE TYPOS. Ziggy fingers on an Ipad :)

                            by snoopydawg on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 11:22:27 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  You are very welcome and I wish you a speedy (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:

                            recovery and I really hope they help you in some way financially.  

                            Just use your best judgement, consider your good relationship with them in the past, and I hope that carries much weight with them and they do offer help.

                              If all else fails, perhaps contact an attorney if you feel you need legal advice for your area. This may be needed earlier rather than later should you not heal or you need much more extensive health care.

                            Whatever your decision, I wish you a fast recovery.  Get well soon!

                          •  I think you can guess how I slept last (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            wishingwell, Bailey2001

                            night.  Poorly.
                            I will call the adjuster and hope he decides to take my case.
                            If not, I will call the owner and see if he can help.
                            If not, I will contact an attorney and see if I can find one that thinks they can help.
                            I agree, this needs to be addressed now, not down the road.
                            Just waiting 2 weeks for the surgery, they will have to rebreak the bone and put in a plate.
                            But he did say that maybe it will heal on its own.
                            Then again, I may turn to this site for a fund raiser. It could happen.
                            Have a great holiday.

                            SORRY FOR THE TYPOS. Ziggy fingers on an Ipad :)

                            by snoopydawg on Sun Dec 22, 2013 at 09:49:27 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                  •  If you know some folks locally (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    wishingwell, PinHole

                    You could try setting up a Lotsa Helping Hands page:

                    To see if you can get folks scheduled to come help.

                    In the mean time, contact your health insurer, tell them what happened. They will probably want you to ask the property owner for the contact info for their insurance company to give to your health insurance co. If the property owner is recalcitrant then you'll need to ask a lawyer to write a letter.

                  •  No, they don't, if it's anything like my situation (0+ / 0-)

                    where I fell in a store parking lot, stumbled over a cement block thing at the end of the Handicapped parking space.

                    I was told by an acquaintance business owner that the parking lot mgt would have insurance and that company would have a certain amount they could automatically provide the person who has an accident. But though they eventually considered this incident, they decided to not pay anything, not even for the new glasses I broke. They said they had no liability. This was in Florida.

                    Anyhow. There's my experience. No attorney, and I contacted a few, would take this on either. I wanted the P.Lot people to remove the cement or at least paint them a bright color.

                    So you may well get something for medical expenses but you cannot count on it.

                    Sorry that I only just now saw your question.

                    I'm so sorry for your problems and hope you can get a good resolution. If I were you I would try some attorneys and see what they say, there is no cost for that. Best wishes to you.

                    "extreme concentration of income is incompatible with real democracy.... the truth is that the whole nature of our society is at stake." Paul Krugman

                    by Gorette on Sun Dec 22, 2013 at 06:50:35 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                •  Hubby may get a cane but the interesting thing is (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  PinHole, Metric Only

                  he works fulltime in retail and he must be on his feet all day. He has been with this retailer nearly 15 yrs and he is bidding on positions within the company where he does not have to be on his feet all of the time. But for now, he is on his feet but on his breaks and hour lunch..he is off his feet and once he gets home, I do nearly everything for him so he does not have to be on his feet.

                  Jobs are hard to come by one is their 50s so he stays there as he has seniority and good benefits. He said all the part timers have their hours cut back and he is lucky to be there fulltime. They want people to volunteer to cut hours and cut pay .but he will not..we cannot afford it...but he is determined to bid on another job there where he is not on his feet constantly as he is well liked and wins customer service awards. Unfortunately because of his strong people skills, they want him front and center waiting on customers and on his feet.

                  Keystone Liberals on Twitter @ KeystoneLibs , Join PA Liberals at

                  by wishingwell on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 04:00:43 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

              •  The father of my daughter's best friend died (8+ / 0-)

                last week from a fall, down his interior steps. Hit his head, never regained consciousness.
                If your husband is unsteady he needs to take precautions IMO.

                Support Small Business: Shop Kos Katalogue If you'd like to join the Motor City Kossacks, send me a Kosmail.

                by peregrine kate on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 07:33:30 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  I have advanced gout in both feet (5+ / 0-)

                along with arthritis and sciatica

            •  My Mom would like (5+ / 0-)

              to downsize, she has 65 acres that is too much to manage, her house is not that big maybe 1200 square feet. I guess I was thinking if I moved her in with me we could delay a nursing home for as long as possible. She is very individualistic and would not do well in that atmosphere. I think she would do better living with me than being forced to confrom to rules and structures that would create quite a bit of emotional disturbance. I am pretty tolerant and plus I am a nurse.

              I however am not living in the middle of nowhere on 65 acres because she lives too far a commute from any of the hospitals I could work at. I won't ever force her to do something she does not want to do, I floated the moving in with me as an idea not a demand. Our issue will be that I am more urban in lifestyle, she is more rural, so compromises on both sides would have to be made.

      •  my friend's mother was Canadian and has long (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Colorado is the Shiznit

        since passed away but my friend was hoping to find out if that would help her with moving to Canada. But she found out that when her mother moved here, she became a citizen and she gave up her Canadian citizenship. We think it happened during or shortly after WWII because we think her mother was working for the government for a short time before going into teaching.

        Keystone Liberals on Twitter @ KeystoneLibs , Join PA Liberals at

        by wishingwell on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 06:00:33 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  you have to be young, in good health (11+ / 0-)

        and offer a profession to get into Canada from the US. Irish can get in easier, but most tend to opt for Australia. I heard on NPR Irelands UE rate went down because young people are leaving. Funny, they mentioned Australia and Dubai, but not the US as favored destinations of young Irish professionals.

      •  Americans can become dual citizens in Canada (5+ / 0-)

        or Mexico or other places and still be "perfectly good" US citizens.  

        The oath of loyalty to another nation is not considered to be a renunciation of US citizenship unless you take overt actions specifically renouncing US citizenship and loyalty... like a letter to the local US Consulate or Embassy stating something like,

        "I, John Smith, hereby renounce my citizenship in the Evil Empire of the United States of America."  
        Once you deliver a letter like that, there's no going back, so be sure to have your ducks lined up beforehand.

        "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

        by YucatanMan on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 09:28:33 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  and if you do that, (5+ / 0-)

          your Uncle Sam still assesses you a percentage of your total wealth as a kind of exit penalty. Not only is there no free lunch, there is no free exit.

          Great Questions of Western Philosophy: How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?

          by Mnemosyne on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 09:44:54 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Most wealthy people who actually do renounce (3+ / 0-)

            their citizenship have already moved their wealth offshore for this and many other reasons.

            For the wealthy, there is always a way around the rules. They write the rules with tailored loopholes.

            But, yes, you are correct. The USA wishes to assess a part of your net value as an "exit tax."

            There arelarge exemptions to such a tax:

            Still, leaving America can have a special tax cost. To exit, you generally must prove 5 years of tax compliance in the U.S. Plus, if you have a net worth greater than $2 million or have average annual net income tax for the 5 previous years of $155,000 or more (that’s tax, not income), you pay an exit tax.

            The theory of the exit tax is that is the last chance the U.S. has of taxing you. It is a capital gain tax as if you sold your property when you left. At least there’s an exemption of $668,000.

            "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

            by YucatanMan on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 11:12:19 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  Unless you're entitled to Canadian citizenship (4+ / 0-)

      by birth (that is, you have a Canadian parent), I don't think you can become a dual citizen and maintain your US citizenship.

    •  O Canada (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Colorado is the Shiznit

      I really would not worry about how dual citizenship would look on forms. Here's why: I moved to Canada in 2005. Became a Permanent Resident (that's a legal status) in 2009. Applied for citizenship in mid-2011. Canada started processing the application in 2012, and I'm told they should be done with it sometime next year.

      So I expect to get dual citizenship about 9 years after I moved to Canada.

  •  Ig you're just talking about guns: (35+ / 0-)
    I am not sure that the United States can right itself again.

    Can it?

    The country is on its natural cultural path. There is nothing to "right."

    There was no such thing as America before the invention of the gun. Recent continent-wide genocide by Europeans would have been impossible, otherwise. That's how the indigenous people of Europe cleared this entire continent -- a half a world away -- of the indigenous American peoples who had occupied it for 60,000 years (and put the remaining survivors into concentration camps, where they remain to this day).

    USians have no history as a people or nation before guns. All other world cultures existed long before the gun (except Australia and a handful of post-firearm exceptions) and are still largely populated by their own racially indigenous peoples. Thus, most world cultures have racial and geographic foundations that reach back to the beginnings of human history.

    In the US, however, guns are the spiritual genesis of life. They represent the origins of wealth, "found" and privately-owned bounty, and the essential security to protect it. Guns are deeply engrained in the US psyche -- which feverishly fears that someone with bigger guns will do to them what they recently did to the original occupants of this continent.

    For this reason alone, guns are here to stay. (And will become more and more necessary to survive here.)

    You, on the other hand, have a choice.

  •  Hear Hear (14+ / 0-)

    I'm hoping to get my family out of this country within the next year. I hear what you're saying. This isn't a country I want to live in anymore. No place is perfect, but there are a hell of a lot of places in the world that are better than the good old USA to live in.

    •  I remember right before (15+ / 0-)

      the 2004 election, a lot of my fellow Dems said they were moving out of the country if Bush was re-elected. They are all still here. We have 2/3 of the federal government; four of nine Supreme Court seats; The Prez is about to remake the other levels the judiciary. We are in the drivers seat politically and demographically when it comes to Federal elections over the next decade. The states, towns and cities are more of a fight, which is where I think our focus should be.

      When the GOP loses a battle, they don't bitch and moan and "move" to Costa Rica. They go local and put pressure on their pols. We look to Washington, which is divided so it looks as if the ball isn't moving. If you look at where our issues are being addressed, it's state and local. Min wage, marriage equality etc...Obama, Reid and Pelosi will seemingly always break our hearts. But we let them off the hook on economic issues because of the GOP alternative on social issues. The GOP doesn't do that. They are willing to suffer short term losses to move the party and the country to the right.

      The Colorado gun bill cost us two seats so far. But it was worth it. If the GOP wins the gov and statehouse they will try to overturn it. But even if they do, they are just fighting for what they had. They make make us do that all time. But we changed the narrative in Colorado because we fought for it and stood by it. That bill would never have gotten through Congress. With those seats and one resignation, the narrative was changed. Short term loss.

      They are making red states redder. We have to make blue states and cities more blue by running progressives in safe Dem seats. We have to feel as if we are fighting to change the narrative. That means going local. The min wage in SF, Cleveland, NYC, DC, Seattle, Portland, LA, New Orleans, Atlanta etc...should be at least $11hr or more depending on the cost of living in that city. SF is close to $11 but should at $14 because of cost of living.

      We have no excuse for not making Schumer, Durbin and their ilk face primary challengers. We chose to do it in Arkansas. Come on!!!! Buck up and fight. Come back to earth as far as your expectations from the pols in DC. State and local is where we can see immediate progress. But if you still want to give up and move, get the fuck out. Your whining is not helpful.

      Go Warren!!! And if she doesn't run, go Hillary but hold her accountable, unlike what we do with Obama.

      •  Stay and try to fix things..... (7+ / 0-)

        instead of fleeing to a place where one can live as a rich ex-pat?

        Stop trying to expose the irony rampant in this diary, it's mean and hurtful.


        Your hate-mail will be graded.

        by PavePusher on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 07:11:12 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  After my pessimistic comment above, I read your (4+ / 0-)

        comment and think maybe there is a chance we can turn this around after all.

        I have to keep reminding myself that things have been really bad in this country before (Civil War; Great Depression - particularly 1932 - a terrible year) but they did get better, mainly because people did not give up.

        Uplifting words, for sure, Alex. Keep up the good fight.

        •  Thank you! (3+ / 0-)

          We have to win at the local level and start a wave from there. As we gain victories and confidence, we won't be stopped.

        •  Turn Left... we can turn it around (0+ / 0-)

          but not with/via/through political action.  The only way we can do it is to drop OUT and go find a mountain hideaway with a small group of people and learn to grow, ferment and raise animals for food.

          I'm fermenting everything now.  It's powerfully healthy, you don't need a refrigerator in the right weather, and you will either get or remain healthy if you do it.

          And if you think you're healthy and eat a typical American diet, you are NOT.

          And if you have a relationship with a doctor who gives you pills, shots and traditional treatment, you are NOT.

          The only way you can understand that is to stop doing it and learn a new style of life and then meditate and be aware of how powerful YOU without all the BS are.

          It's true.

      •  Agree (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

         I'd rather stay and fight. The majority of people agree with us, it's only that the vocal, shriveled up old white people have the access to the airwaves that makes it seem otherwise.

           But it's going to take a lot more than just getting frustrated by observing. We need to vote as much as them, and not be nice about what we believe. It's hard to do, probably because us on the left have brains, decency and respect for others (things that don't weigh down many righties), but I worry that we're at a point where waiting for niceness and "better angels" isn't going to get the job done.

          Look, I live in Wisconsin, I know what'll happen if we stay silent and let these b*stards run over us in the few years they have left to stay in power. And the prospect of being mean and unwavering isn't pretty, but as Tom Morello said here nearly 3 years ago "The struggle for justice isn't always rated PG-13."

           It does feel a lot like it did in 2004, 2005, where most of us can  feel things are wrong, but somehow the repressive minority is in control. It took a concentrated effort from 2006-08 to drive them out, but it happened. The mistake was that we didn't finish the job, and had a president and too many Vichy Dems be "post-partisan." NOT THIS TIME.

        •  RWNJ's in power (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          in states like Wisconsin and Michigan are prime examples of what i'm talking about. I'm 67 years old and  I've been fighting for a better country for over 45 years starting with civil rights and anti war activities in the 60's. I'm tired of pissing into the wind. I see this country regressing instead of progressing. I want to spend my final years someplace where people are sane. Not surrounded by right wing nut jobs and haters. I honestly don't have much hope for change. Except for some superficial changes this admin. made, it is no better than the ones that preceded it. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Sorry to be so negative, but I've pretty much given up on making this a better country. It ain't gonna happen in my lifetime.  

          •  Jake... get your little group and quietly move to (0+ / 0-)

            a warm place in the mountains where you can gather your food.  If you create a group of like-minded people, you can be in this jacked-up country and still be happy.  I'm sitting in the middle of a downtown area in a big city.  I'm longing to go somewhere with my dogs and my friends and just work the land.

            My friend and I have an urban farm.  We only have 2 chickens, bees and a small garden, but now that I can ferment, I can do a lot more.

            You just have to start somewhere.  Our chickens keep me in eggs... and my friend keeps the garden and chickens.  It started less than a year ago.  But it's still in the city.  

            You can do it even in the city, but you need a good neighborhood and the Urban Farm law.  We can even have 2 goats.  I don't think that will happen though.  

            •  I don't want to drop out (0+ / 0-)

              and I'm too old and busted up to do much farming. I just want to move someplace with a sane government. I will still work on a local level helping where I can and continue to support Int'l organizations like Doctors Without Borders, Oxfam and other NGO's. I can do those things wherever I end up. I've traveled in Europe, Asia, South and Central America and know this isn't the only place in the world to live. Americans seem to have this conceited idea that everywhere else is worse than here. Not so.

              I'm just mostly venting. Truth be told, I would probably be happy just moving out of Orange County, Ca..  

    •  reminds me of threads I saw at stormfront in 2008. (0+ / 0-)

      Seems that every year we have people on the far right and left talking about how much the US sucks for their respective reasons, and fantasizing about living in Canada, Iceland, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Germany (those are typically the nations of choice for wannabe expats on the far left and right).

      Canada, I guess, is picked because it's the most US-like.  It's for those that loathe living in the US but are too cowardly to make a full, clean break.  Like a vegetarian wolfing down veggie burgers every chance he gets.  By living in Canada, one can still live as an "American" (all American culture is readily available, such as movies, tv shows, sports, music, magazines, etc.).  You get all that, but also get single payer and much smaller MIC.  And you get Stephen Harper, someone that Americans on both the far left and far right can talk themselves into liking.  (But, having been in Canada plenty of times, I think it's a myth that Canadians are friendlier or more polite.  There are lots of Canadians that are as arrogant as lots of Americans, but the arrogance is for different reasons is all.)

      The Scandinavian countries, American wannabe expats fantasize about, because they are socialist (appeals to progressives) or because they are all-white (appeals to right-wingers).

      Lastly, Germany is kind of like a demilitarized "America" of Europe.  Largest economy, both right wing and left wing politics, has pretensions of egalitarianism among the brotherhood of nations, but bullies the continent, calling all the shots economically, shoving austerity down the throats of its less well off neighbors while reaping the benefits to itself.  It's naturally attractive to American expat wannabes that are brave enough to make a clean break (unlike those that fantasize Canada) but still want to live in a "bully" country (unlike those who fantasize about Scandinavia).

  •  Americans suck? (53+ / 0-)

    Clara Gantt remained loyal to her husband for decades and finally welcomed his remains home from the Korean War today.

    Also this afternoon, just two states away from her:

    U.S. District Judge Robert J. Shelby issued a 53-page ruling saying Utah's law passed by voters in 2004 violates gay and lesbian couples' rights to due process and equal protection under the 14th Amendment.

    Ms Gantt and Judge Shelby are courageous people, the best this country has to offer.

    But you're complaining about celebrities and Ted Kaczynski?

    There is much we need to work on in this country. But there are a myriad of great people here doing great, brave and noble things, whether you notice them, or not.

    I prefer to keep working here, with them. We care for veterans who need new purpose, feed the hungry, do other useful tasks.

    Go if you want. Stay if you wish. But don't malign many who you don't realize are doing good works when you haven't stopped to ask what they're up to.

    © grover

    So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not. -- Me.

    by grover on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 01:30:42 AM PST

  •  Hmmmmm (16+ / 0-)
    We got Phil Robertson shoving his Duck Dynasty homophobic and racist bullshit down our throats
    You're one of those people who are force-fed GQ magazine and A&E network are you?  Bad luck, that is. All those first world problems can tend to wear one down.

    Sorry to hear that...yeah, maybe it's time to move. I'm sure there must be better places to live with nicer people. Such a bad hand fate has dealt you, being born in America.  

    Dammit Jim, I'm a lawyer, not a grammarian. So sue me.

    by Pi Li on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 01:51:56 AM PST

  •  to be fair (10+ / 0-)

    bieber is canadian...

    The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

    by Laurence Lewis on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 02:15:31 AM PST

  •  The 24 hour news cycle (6+ / 0-)

    got you down?
    Hang in there, C is the S!

  •  Justin Bieber ... (9+ / 0-)

    Like Ted Cruz ... is Canadian.

    “Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” ... Voltaire

    by RUNDOWN on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 02:35:15 AM PST

  •  I understand where you're coming from. (21+ / 0-)

    The gun culture was one of the things that led to me moving away from the U.S. and I know a guy here in Germany who moved away from the U.S. specifically because guns being everywhere made him so uncomfortable.

    That being said, the U.S. has been moving forward of late, moving in the right direction in many areas whereas many industrialized nations seem to be stagnating, South America nations being the big exception.

    For example, there are very few nations in the world where marijuana is legal in some states and on its way to becoming legal in many other states.

    There are also few industrialized nations where taxes on the rich and very rich have been raised over the last couple of years.

    And while there is strong growth with renewable energy in the U.S. right now, it has been scaled back in many other industrial nations.

    There are also very few nations in the world that are as ethnically diverse as the U.S. and where the Millennial Generation is as diverse as in the U.S.

    So, I understand your frustration, but have to say that it ain't all bad.

    "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

    by Lawrence on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 02:53:20 AM PST

  •  If living in Colorado makes you this jaded (16+ / 0-)

    Try imagining living in Newark, NJ, or St Louis, or Detroit.

    The concrete is always grimier on the other side of the fence.

    Through early morning fog I see visions of the things to be the pains that are withheld for me I realize and I can see...

    by Keith930 on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 03:46:16 AM PST

  •  We have a dangerous and dysfunctional (16+ / 0-)

    Supreme Court among other problems.

    They stopped an election and appointed their man president in 2000 for one thing.

    The Second Amendment has been mis-interpreted beyond anything the writers of it could have possibly intended because ... freedom.

    What the  Second Amendment says is:

    A well trained and dsiciplined citizenry (gun safety training, certification, muster and drill every Saturday on the village green -- I don't care as long as it's "well regulated.") being necessary to the securityof a free state, the right to keep and bear muzzle loading firearms shall not be infringed.
    Somehow our right-wing Supreme Court interprets that to mean Walmarts full of 12 guage, .308, 9mm, .40 cal. semi-auto ammo, box after box after box.

    And you can buy yer guns in the same Walmart then go to any gun shop (but Shotgun News and hundreds of websites have better prices) and buy your 30 round banana magazines or 100 round drum magazines. Effing brilliant.

    How the fuck can they ignore the first three words of the goddamn amendment?

    A. Well. Regulated.

    Reaganomics noun pl: blind faith that unregulated capitalism can provide unlimited goods for unlimited people on a planet with finite resources. Synonyms: trickle-down; voodoo economics. Antonyms: common sense. Related Words: Laffer curve.

    by FrY10cK on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 04:00:20 AM PST

    •  I would add: (6+ / 0-)
      A well trained and disciplined citizenry (gun safety training, certification, muster and drill every Saturday on the village green -- I don't care as long as it's "well regulated.") being necessary to the security of a free state, the right to keep and bear muzzle loading firearms shall not be infringed... because we do not have a standing army and no military forces to ward off potential enemies, so local militia personnel (found in Able To Bear Arms lists) need to be ready to bring their own firearms if they have to go to war for us.
      Day-um.  I wish the Teahadist Repukes were educated enough to study early American history and actually understand how things were back then.

      My maternal ancestors who were in a militia from Marshfield, MA went to RI in 1675 where King Philip's War was being waged.  When my ancestor returned, he was said to "suffer bouts of temporary insanity" (presumably PTSD); it was probably a blessing he died relatively young (his widow went on to marry and have children with two more men; she had children by all three men and outlived all three).  That was on my maternal line.  In my paternal line, during the Great Swamp Fight in that same war, an ancestor out looking for his son who was married to an Indian woman and accused of firing at whites, and said father, John Tefft, was killed and beheaded by Indians and his body left unburied for a while before it was safe to retrieve it for burial.  Said second son was captured and then died a traitor's death.  (I descend from the other son, Samuel Tefft.)

      During the conflict known as King Phillip's War, the only incident of an individual being hanged, drawn and quartered for treason on American soil took place at Smith's Castle in 1676. Joshua Tefft, an English colonist accused of having fought on the side of the Narragansett during the Great Swamp Fight, was executed by this method.
      After the Revolutionary War ended - it was fought by real patriots who volunteered for service - the troops disbanded and there was no standing military force once the war was over and the patriots met to write the Constitution and Bill of Rights.  [The honorable discharge for one of my ancestors was signed at Newburgh by "G. Washington" - Newburgh was where they were waiting for the ship to come from France with the signed Treaty of Paris..., and the money to pay the troops.]

      Really, there is no better way to learn about early American history than to do genealogy research and find out what role one's own ancestors played in important events that happened when they were alive, and how it affected their lives.  It makes one have to bone up on historical events during the lifetime of one's ancestors.

      The US did not have a standing army until about the time of the War of 1812 or shortly thereafter.  Hence, the reason for the community militias where each man brought his own gun and ammo was ended, but in due time the National Guard units under the control of governors of each state came into being.  Before Dumbya and Dickie's illegal and unconstitutional wars, they were mostly only called out for such things as assistance after natural disasters and the like, even though they had/have monthly and yearly drills.

      It frustrates me no end that there is zero historical perspective from NRA & Teahadist Repukes about the Second Amendment and why it was worded the way it was.  The lack of education about American history is deplorable.

      I'm sick of attempts to steer this nation from principles evolved in The Age of Reason to hallucinations derived from illiterate herdsmen. ~ Crashing Vor

      by NonnyO on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 06:35:56 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Wicked cool (3+ / 0-)

        bit 'o history there.

        Reaganomics noun pl: blind faith that unregulated capitalism can provide unlimited goods for unlimited people on a planet with finite resources. Synonyms: trickle-down; voodoo economics. Antonyms: common sense. Related Words: Laffer curve.

        by FrY10cK on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 10:19:56 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  :-) Thanks! (0+ / 0-)

          Finding out about my colonial New England ancestors has been an eye-opening (if not eye-popping) experience, with the huge side benefit of knowing their roles in their local communities which influenced national history, or how huge events affected them.  Two of my ancestors signed the Portsmouth Compact, and others became in-laws by virtue of the fact they married siblings of my ancestors through the generations.

          I have documented ancestors from seven different countries.  Many English lines, one Irish line, and one Dutch line from the colonial period, yes, but others didn't get here until the 19th century.

          All in all, doing genealogy research is a remarkably good way to learn something about American history as well as world history.  I've been doing this since I got interested in high school (50+ years ago), but my most productive research has been done since I got my first computer in the fall of '01.  The internet has been the best thing that ever happened to me!

          I'm sick of attempts to steer this nation from principles evolved in The Age of Reason to hallucinations derived from illiterate herdsmen. ~ Crashing Vor

          by NonnyO on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 04:35:27 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I know nothing beyond the birtplaces of all four (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            gradparents who were all from towns in either MA or NH. What's the short answer to the question, "Where do I start genealogical research?"

            Reaganomics noun pl: blind faith that unregulated capitalism can provide unlimited goods for unlimited people on a planet with finite resources. Synonyms: trickle-down; voodoo economics. Antonyms: common sense. Related Words: Laffer curve.

            by FrY10cK on Sun Dec 22, 2013 at 03:58:53 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Start with yourself...! :-D (0+ / 0-)

              No, really.  That's what the genealogy how-to books say!

              Find a compatible genealogy program that you can use.  Many have free demo downloads, some are free.  I use Reunion, it only runs on Macs, and I'm stuck with my 2002 iBook and Reunion 7, so I haven't upgraded the program.  The program is super simple to use, it looks like my old family group sheets when printed out (that was a big selling point since I was new to computers then, had only had my Windows since three months earlier - I switch back and forth between two operating systems), and one can make an entire web site with two or three clicks on the menus.  Just edit the home page and upload it to your own web site.  Most other programs only allow you to upload a GEDCOM to only their web sites and you don't necessarily get a chance to correct and edit anything unless you have Ancestry's free pedigree section (flawed Notes sections, can't format anything - Ick!  I'm the editor for a few other people's genealogy so I'm familiar with it and loathe most of it).

              The entire reason I went with Reunion at first was that I could upload it to my own web site so I could edit changes and re-upload it with corrections.  It wasn't until I got it installed that I realized that how it looked while entering data was close to my family group sheets in my notebooks, and how easy it was to use.  I maintain two databases of my genealogy info.  One has descendant info which never, ever makes it online (it's super-unethical to put info on living relatives online).  The others are for maternal and paternal lineages, the people are all dead, so it's okay to put their info online (or, at least the names if things like obit info list names of living people, in which case, that's not included).

              Document everything (genealogy without documentation is mythology; there will be enough genuine errors to sort out without great-aunt-forget-me-not's faulty memory).  Do NOT copy someone else's work online if you run across a genealogy for someone in your family already online.  They may be the sixth one who copied original wrong data that came from a relative's fevered brain and it's not correct.  You can use it as a sort of guide; make a note of the info, but don't enter it in your genealogy program until you get your own documents.  You'd be amazed how many people copy others' data and never do a lick of actual research for documents!  [That's happened with my data which I researched and found documents for - before other people found actual documents, even - and it's really annoying.  Copiers cannot call themselves genealogy researchers, IMHO.]

              List all your vital stats, full name as it appears on your birth certificate (assuming you already have that in file, so that's your official documentation), spell everything out in full for your locations, smallest to largest.  Your "audience" will be your descendants two hundred years in the future, so don't use abbreviations because they may mean something else entirely by then.  Use the European style of dating (day, month, year), don't abbreviate the names of the months and NEVER use numbers for dates).

              Do the same thing for your parents, grandparents, gr-grandparents, and so on.  Never use a married name for a woman, but list her with her birth name as it appears on her birth certificate.  Get birth and/or death certificates for each (that part is expensive and after the Patriot Act it's a hassle to get PUBLIC documents at courthouses unless you know the clerks personally; they now make you fill out a document and give a picture ID before they sell you their PUBLIC documents).  Specify and ask for a photocopy of the original document.  Data from the original paper does not always get listed on certified copies (I went over 25 years not knowing how one gr-grandmother died; her info is in a ledger for pre-1900 death records, and one of my genie friends photographed the pages and that's when I found out she died of measles; there was no blank to fill in cause of death on the certified copy form, so while the other data was listed, cause of death was not).  Smart clerks of court who have worked with lots of genealogists actually notarize a photocopy of original documents so that avoids a lot of misspellings, wrong data, etc.  You can get a huge amount of info from US census data from about 1850 forward (except for 1890, which burned - the 1890 Veteran Schedules survived because they were kept at a different location).  Prior to 1850, not so much, but at least from 1790 to 1840 you can get the name of the head of household.  Microfilm images of census data is free on various web sites.

              MA has quite a lot of info online on various web sites (so does RI).  When you get closer to the colonial period, Internet Archive and/or Google Books have/has free downloads of vital stats for various MA locations from the earliest records forward.  I haven't done any research in NH, so I don't know what's online, or where to start to look.

              Get an email address from Yahoo or Gmail or whatever that you can consider a "throw-away" email address if spammers get it (Yahoo just changed their formats for incoming email and replies and it's the shits).  If you have a "good" email address from a private ISP, leave that one alone for family and friends, but have the "public" email for genealogy lists and web sites.

              Join email lists off of Rootsweb for some advice or assistance.  Email lists... NOT message boards.  I'm on several lists, but the ones that are most productive (and where I can actually help people now that I have the skill set and computer to do so) are for Norway, Sweden, and Denmark.  Norway and Denmark have their records online for free, thanks to the taxpayers in those countries.

              Hmmmm... I certainly wrote a lot about the basics, but the short answer is that first sentence:  Start with yourself...!


              I'm sick of attempts to steer this nation from principles evolved in The Age of Reason to hallucinations derived from illiterate herdsmen. ~ Crashing Vor

              by NonnyO on Sun Dec 22, 2013 at 11:35:00 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

    •  What Supreme Court decision says that (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      you can buy an unlimited amount of ammunition?  

      I'm interested, because I think you're going to have a very very hard time finding one.  

    •  The "militias" were references to slave-hunting (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Colorado is the Shiznit

      bounty hunters intended to continue the practice of slavery of the southern states and control runaways, guaranteeing the "property right" to own human beings.

      If not for that Amendment, some slave states may not have signed onto the Constitution.

      "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

      by YucatanMan on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 09:38:47 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I could not possibly agree with you (0+ / 0-)


      Good comment.

      If I turn into another, dig me up from under what is covering the better part of me. -- Incubus

      by Colorado is the Shiznit on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 01:23:54 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  "A well regulated" is a modifier for "militia" (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      "Shall not be infringed" is a modifier for "the right of the people"

      Nowhere does it say that one needs to be  a member of a militia in order to have "the right of the people".

      Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

      by FrankRose on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 01:56:56 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  What part of "necessary" don't you understand? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:


        Or is "the security of a free state" just another part of the amendment that only means what you want it to mean?

        Reaganomics noun pl: blind faith that unregulated capitalism can provide unlimited goods for unlimited people on a planet with finite resources. Synonyms: trickle-down; voodoo economics. Antonyms: common sense. Related Words: Laffer curve.

        by FrY10cK on Sun Dec 22, 2013 at 04:06:11 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  A well regulated militia BEING NECESSARY (0+ / 0-)

          to the security of a free state..."
          That doesn't mean a person needs to be a militia member in order to have the right of the people.

          There is a reason why numerous Supreme Court rulings & why the second Amendment & the right to keep and bear arms has stayed so consistent for the entirety of this nations existence.....
          Because the text isn't difficult to understand.

          Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

          by FrankRose on Sun Dec 22, 2013 at 07:41:09 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  I can't say I haven't thought the same thing (15+ / 0-)

    Because I have. For me it just boils down to saying, "It's a sick society." The fact is that it is sick. We have been fed a steady diet of the dog-eat-dog facts of life to the point where people walk around as insulated bubbles of "me", pushing and shoving their way through a thousand people on crutches.

    I don't know what my answer is but I understand where you're coming from.

    The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.

    by The Lone Apple on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 04:16:04 AM PST

  •  Good rant but living in southern states (14+ / 0-)

    with tea party governors like Scott or in Ga or NC will make you crazy daily.   Some as Rich said cannot leave for many reasons but I haven't said the pledge in so many years, I forget how long it has been.   I will not stand and say a pledge to a country that does it's fellow man with grave injustice.   It's a lie and I won't say it.  With liberty and justice for all.... Bullshit.   I might as well stand and quote Twas the Night before Christmas.

    We the People have to make a difference and the Change.....Just do it ! Be part of helping us build a veteran community online. United Veterans of America

    by Vetwife on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 04:26:56 AM PST

  •  Maybe it's where you live Shiz? (10+ / 0-)

    I'm just 25 miles N and it's all quiet here. Everyone is getting ready for Christmas and stuff. TV seems to always tell of the horrendous things going on, sells advertising. I don't know if you remember but I have a couple kids in school. Most stressful thing we discuss is doing their homework.

    I heard one car go by, first this morning.

    “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

    by ban nock on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 04:27:22 AM PST

    •  Yes it may depend on one's community, that says (4+ / 0-)

      a lot about each person may feel, based on their neighborhood, their workplace, the people they see and interact and observe daily.

      My nephew is stationed in the Denver area and they just recently bought a house in the suburbs. They have 2 very small children and they seem to live this area. Of course, as career military, they have few choices as to where they will be stationed and living. And my nephew wanted and requested Denver because he could see his daughter regularly from his first marriage. That was important to him and his be part of her life. So they like it there for that one reason alone plus his wife was able to get a job more easily than when they lived in the San Francisco region.  But then again, that was a few years when the economy was struggling more.  

      His wife is from the San Francisco area and they do miss it there but they do not miss the higher cost of living.

      Keystone Liberals on Twitter @ KeystoneLibs , Join PA Liberals at

      by wishingwell on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 06:30:20 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  I keep hearing Yeats (13+ / 0-)

    And that line from "The Second Coming" about how "The best lack all conviction, while the worst / Are full of passionate intensity," and I wonder how this can be reversed.

    And then I read a diary like this one, and I know that this is already happening. In other words, I find this kind of anger to be very encouraging and oh-so needed. It's time more of us got really fucking angry. It's time the "best of us" were filled with with the same passionate intensity displayed by the Tea Party fifth columnists.

    On the eve of the American Civil War, Sam Houston predicted Southern destruction:

    "Let me tell you what is coming. After the sacrifice of countless millions of treasure and hundreds of thousands of lives you may win Southern independence, but I doubt it. The North is determined to preserve this Union. They are not a fiery, impulsive people as you are, for they live in colder climates. But when they begin to move in a given direction, they move with the steady momentum and perseverance of a mighty avalanche."

    I think about this quote frequently. Houston was right. This is what inevitably happened to the 19th century version of the Tea Party. I think of today's liberals as being the same kind of reluctant warriors who fought to preserve the Union.

    We will win this time too, but only when and if enough of us become as righteously angry as Shiznit. I know I've been there (for decades), and I encourage all my fellow Kossacks to GET. PISSED. OFF!

    17th century poet John Dryden, borrowing from ancient Greek Publilius Syrus, said much the same thing:

    "Oh that my Pow'r to Saving were confin’d:
    Why am I forc’d, like Heav’n, against my mind,
    To make Examples of another Kind?
    Must I at length the Sword of Justice draw?
    Oh curst Effects of necessary Law!
    How ill my Fear they by my Mercy scan,
    Beware the Fury of a Patient Man."

    The time for patience is is over. It's time to embrace your fury.

    "I must create a system or be enslaved by another man's." - William Blake

    by Tod Westlake on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 05:41:42 AM PST

    •  Hmmm. (3+ / 0-)

      I think that most (all?)  of those who have passionate intensity aren't those who are willing to walk away.

      I get seething angry at times. I get so furious and frustrated, i just want to cry. And that makes me work harder. It never makes me say "eff it all. I'm leaving."

      You use the term "righteous anger." How righteous is it to just walk away?

      I understand if this were simply a rant. But honestly, I'm not so sure. I think if someone gave Shiz a plane ticket and a condo in a nice place, she'd take it. I respect the fact that she's frustrated and fed up. But let's call that what it is.


      © grover

      So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not. -- Me.

      by grover on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 08:12:11 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  No, I really wouldn't. (0+ / 0-)

        I have too much at stake in this country, but I do understand why you would think that.

        If I turn into another, dig me up from under what is covering the better part of me. -- Incubus

        by Colorado is the Shiznit on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 01:26:57 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Well Shiz. (0+ / 0-)

          There's this:

          This is just not right. Something is definitely askew with this country, and I'm looking for a quick exit because I am not sure that the United States can right itself again.

          © grover

          So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not. -- Me.

          by grover on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 04:59:21 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  Just remember for every person (19+ / 0-)

    who knocks down the girl on crutches there is another one who picks her up and helps her. America may have more than it share of idiots and fools but there are still good people here. People who every day put there life on the line to help other . People who stand up to ignorances and racisms ofter at great personal expense to themselves. Some-days it seem like the nuts are winning and some-days there are. The day will come when America says enough to the irresponsible gun owners and the haters I just hope that I live long enough to see it happen again. Since we had a good start and lost it!

    •  I see here and there that selfish and rude (3+ / 0-)

      behavior.  I just don't get it.  How could anyone knock down someone on crutches?  Unless they made a mistake, in which case, they should apologize and help her up again.  But 5?!  Atrocious.

      I think a lot of people in this country are caught up in the selfish pursuit of $.  This nation worships $, not decency.  People are in a hurry, and time is $, so they will knock down anyone and anything in their way.

      Information is the currency of democracy. ~Thomas Jefferson

      by CIndyCasella on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 06:34:59 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  There may be some people who pick up people (3+ / 0-)

      who have been knocked down, but you'd be hard put to find a lot of them in a lot of places these days.

      Most other shoppers would walk right by, stepping on her hands if needed to continue their important shopping. Because that's what matters. That's what Bush told us to do. Those are our American values: Go Shopping!

      "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

      by YucatanMan on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 09:41:06 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Completely agree... (6+ / 0-)

    I live in Tampa, because, well, I love the warmth.  (Today will be 88 degrees)

    But I hate the Tea Party and what its done to my country.  I too feel its somewhat hopeless because when you look at the polling, its plain to see that the vast majority of people are stupid.

    I forget who said that every people get the country they deserve, but we are proof of that.  As we become a nation of idiots, our government marches lockstep with us.

    As I near retirement we've been looking to see if we can make our escape to another country.  Its easier said than done, so most likely we'll just stay here.

    But I definitely don't have any good feelings about America anymore.  That is a shame, because 30 years ago we really were something.

    •  Some northeastern liberal friends move to Florida (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Colorado is the Shiznit

      to retire, for the weather only. Otherwise, they are not fond of Florida. I think they live in a very conservative, very red community.  So they may try to move to a more liberal part of Florida.

      However, I know some conservatives who moved to Florida and they just love everything about Florida.  

      It is interesting when we hear from each of these couples, one very liberal who moved to Florida from the northeast and the other couple who are religious right types.
      Both have very very different views of Florida and America.

      Keystone Liberals on Twitter @ KeystoneLibs , Join PA Liberals at

      by wishingwell on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 06:34:52 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Fortunately my neighbors are mostly liberal :-) (3+ / 0-)

        But I think that is because we filter out who we are friends with.  In the last few years I have never met a "conservative" who I could stand to be around for long.  I'm not close minded, but I find it hard to engage with people who don't use reason, science, and logic as their primary navigation tools.  For me it makes even talking to them unproductive.  We've even cut off most of our conservative relatives.

        Florida is a swing state and probably no worse than Pennsylvania.

        And even in ultra liberal Maryland where I hail from originally I find that the affluent white areas are full of bigots and far right neo-conservatives, so I really don't think Florida is any "worse" then the northeast when it comes to our idiot count.

        •  True we live in a red county in PA and you are (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Colorado is the Shiznit

          absolutely correct about that.  We encounter some crazy right wingers here in PA all of the time.

          Then there is my sister who lives in a very blue suburban Atlanta  area which is very diverse and Democrats easily win elections in her district.  So she is in a very blue district in Georgia while I live in a red district in a blue state.

          Keystone Liberals on Twitter @ KeystoneLibs , Join PA Liberals at

          by wishingwell on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 07:13:20 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  Much hugs, Shiz. And even though it seems like (6+ / 0-)

    you're that crazy person on the street corner shouting about "doom" that no one listens to, you have friends shouting the same thing with you.

    "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." --M. L. King "You can't fix stupid" --Ron White -6.00, -5.18

    by zenbassoon on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 05:56:37 AM PST

  •  I love this country, America the beautiful, and I (9+ / 0-)

    am here to stay and fight for its Constitution and values that we as a people are indeed created equal and do indeed have an inalienable right to the pursuit of happiness, peacefully, with a very strong weapon hiding in plain sight, the truth.

    Although, with the police state, affluenza justice system, and so many of my fellow citizens in a zombie trance drooling in front of the TV, repeating the latest MSM propaganda on cue, it isn't easy.

    Information is the currency of democracy. ~Thomas Jefferson

    by CIndyCasella on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 06:04:17 AM PST

    •  Have you compared (2+ / 0-)

      the size and scope of the executive branch to the other two, now reduced to less significance than vestigial dewclaws of a dog by comparison.

      For example the CIA is under the executive branch, although "answerable" (insert laugh track) to the legislative.  Ponder them.  An enormous federal agency whose budget, number hired, and constituency is not to be reported to the public.  Whose employees - officers answerable to the executive branch - it is illegal to "out."  All else aside, I'm just following money here.  The NSA also is an executive branch suckling.

      There are 535 legislators plus their assistants by comparison.

      The judicial branch is appointed by the executive branch.

      Now, about the Constitution...

      I appreciate your sentiment.  It is good-hearted of you.

      But the discrepancy between the nature of the beast and what we are "edumacated" to believe about it is so vast.  We are the most overpoliced society that has ever existed.

      Your weapon?  Do you know that all the movies you saw on TV - cowboys/Indians on - are total lies?  That usually no one ever immediately dies from anything but a shot in the head?  That people don't just slump over when that "magic wand" is fired at them, a minor oil stain seeping into the shirt "as seen on TV?"  That in war - I have this first hand from a husband who spent a year on the front lines in Nam - most shots are bad shots, even by intensively trained people armed with excellent equipment?  About 20% die right away.  The rest don't die quietly.  They scream and moan for hours if they even live, until the helicopters can penetrate to lift them out.  Noisier than women in labor.

      From movies, Americans get the idea that their "magic wands" can just kill anyone now.  Don't know that adrenalin will overpower you, even make a trained marksman unable to shoot well.  That intruders - frequently on drugs giving them unnatural resilience - often overpower someone anyway after being shot, and the game turns around.  

      Suppose you do shoot an intruder.  You have only just begun.  Now you'll spend time in the court system.  The trial might be about anything.  Your sex life, whatever.  Your life is no longer your own.

      Want to get rid of armed intruders?  Stock up on loud fireworks.  When the boogie man comes to the front door, toss a lit cherry bomb out the back window or anywhere he can't see the source.  He will assume 1) he's being fired upon - that you are armed, and 2) the cops are coming.  The cops will be coming.  Your neighbors will ALL call them.  Lots will respond to gunfire reports.  Cops want backup in those cases and plenty of it.  When the intruder runs, he will more likely attract attention to oncoming cops who are already looking for him.  There is a decent chance he will be apprehended.

      Guns are difficult enough to handle for highly trained people.  Forget them for self defense.  

      Thanks for posting my top two illusions.  I've been waiting for the opportunity to get this one off my chest.

  •  Seems that the problem is living in a world (6+ / 0-)

    where there are other people of all kinds -- good, bad, and indifferent.  

    And I don't know that there IS a solution to that -- I don't know that there is a place on this earth where everyone is good, where there aren't any evil people, and where you don't have to put up with hearing about things those bad/evil people do, or with seeing and dealing with simple jerks sometimes.  

    I don't think this country is perfect by ANY means.  I just think that as long as you have people involved, no place is going to be perfect.  All we can do is our part to make things as good as we can.  Certainly, more things are better for more people than they were 1000 or even 500 years ago, so we've made progress in the right direction.  But we aren't nearly perfect.  I just think that as long as we have humans involved -- humans who are always going to be flawed in any number of ways and to varying degrees -- we are not ever going to have the perfect society.  We will never be "finished" in the job of making our world better for more people.  

    And to some extent, the fact that we as a society have more freedom than most people did 500 or 1000 years ago plays into this.  Freedom for all of us (free speech, freedom from unreasonable search and seizure, freedom from the government just jailing us because they don't like what we are saying or because of what they think we might do) also means that some evil/bad people have more freedom to try to do bad things.  Our government could crack down on a lot of these bad things by intruding into all of our communications, by watching everything we do, by decreeing that we have no privacy, and that everything we say, do, or even think is subject to government control.  That way, government could tell ahead of time if they don't like what we are saying or thinking and jail us before we do anything that the government doesn't like, or could jail us just because those in power don't like us.  We don't allow that,  and that's a trade-off.  That trade-off also provides freedom to the bad guys.  But it's a trade-off that I'm willing to make.  

  •  My complaint is of a different variety (11+ / 0-)

    mostly economic. I don't understand why we are so collectively stupid as to allow the pathetic wages, the skewed tax system, a justice system that openly does not prosecute the wealthy and connected banksters for fear of "disruption", and why we overpay for everything we could possibly pay for, whether it is utilities or tuition or healthcare, or cell phones or any other damn thing - why we allow ourselves to be the golden geese who are forced to produce valuable eggs to be taken by the 1% with the collusion of our politicians. I really think other countries point and laugh at us for our combined ignorance and hubris, especially when we run around yelling we're number 1! when most likely we are actually number 14 or 37 or whatever if the metric is over something meaningful and only number 1 in areas like gun violence and percentage of the population in prison or cost of tuition or malfeasance in healthcare spending.

    If I were younger, I would definitely look into being an expat and living and working in some more modern and compassionate and economically progressive country until we got our collective shit together here.

    “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR

    by Phoebe Loosinhouse on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 06:08:49 AM PST

  •  My 16 year old aspires to emigrate (7+ / 0-)

    to Europe. He's a smart kid, and works hard. He'll be an asset.

    I won't tell him not to go. This country -- our country -- is made  up of immigrants from somewhere else, who came here, looking for a better life. How can I say no, you can't go somewhere else, and look for a better life? I can't.

    It's the American way.

    “Hardworking men and women who are busting their tails in full-time jobs shouldn't be left in poverty.” -- Elizabeth Warren

    by Positronicus on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 06:10:11 AM PST

  •  Where would you go? (5+ / 0-)

    There is no "exit strategy".  I know because I've looked.  

    Would you go to Mexico?  And hope you can stay out of the cross-fire between the Federales and the narcotraficantes?

    Would you find some idyllic tropical isle?  And hope that it's not in the path of the next Typhoon Haiyan?

    Would you find some backwater on the European continent?  And hope that the economy is good enough that the neo-Nazis can't draw a crowd?

    America has some stunning flaws, being #1 in incarceration and #last in health coverage as two of its worst flaws, but any place you go, you just trade one set of flaws for another.  

    I've been reading different speculations about the post-carbon future.  Most of them agree that when the unsustainable falls, we will have to go back to what worked long ago -- grow your own food, make your own clothes, engage with your neighbors for community, and make your own entertainment.  

    •  If I had money I'd move to a warm climate, (0+ / 0-)

      with rolling hills, mountains, good soil and nobody for miles.  I don't so I'm sitting in the middle of a construction zone, sick on the dirt, walking my dogs slowly so I don't fall, etc.  Doing the urban farm in the spring/summer.

      I'd go if I had the $.

      I'd also go live in India if I had the $ to get there and if I could take my dogs, my rock collection and my art.

      But I am still here.

  •  I'm too old to go... (6+ / 0-)

    ...but I would seriously consider leaving if I were younger.  I have had it, too.

    Thankfully, I never had children, so I can die comforted that I didn't leave any of my African american blood to suffer this rotting country, ruled by assholes who rose to power from even greater pools of assholes. And the factions are splintering and multiplying and getting ever louder.

    What the people want is very simple - they want an America as good as its promise. —Barbara Jordan

    by Bendra on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 06:39:39 AM PST

  •  Who would knock over chicks on crutches? (4+ / 0-)

    This is really a fundamental question of our society. Our priorities as a society. How we get corrupted and manipulated by the media.

    Really great rant to talk about the war on Christmas being waged by the retail giants. Turning it into a consumer feeding frenzy instead of a time of real giving.

    There's your Christmas, Megan Kelly, frantic shoppers knocking over chicks on crutches. Nice.

    A true craftsman will meticulously construct the apparatus of his own demise.

    by onionjim on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 06:49:27 AM PST

  •  "We are so far off track, that if we (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DawnN, Colorado is the Shiznit

    were to get on track, we would think that we were off track."

    Even if I knew that tomorrow the world would go to pieces, I would still plant my apple tree. -Martin Luther

    by the fan man on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 06:50:05 AM PST

  •  I'd be offended, except for the fact that I was... (4+ / 0-)

    ...recently informed by some right wing gunnut here
    that I'm not a true American.

    Because the Supreme Court said "Marriage is one of the basic civil rights of man" in a 1976 decision that legalized my marriage nationwide (Loving v Virginia), I'm not a true American.

    Because I want and need governmental recognition of my marriage in order to be allowed to cohabitate with my spouse here in this country, I'm not a true American.

    So I guess that this just doesn't apply to me.

    Americans suck, man.

    An HR from a member of the RKBA is like an F rating from the NRA
    ---We Shall Overcome (12/3/13)---

    by earlybird on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 06:53:45 AM PST

  •  I hear ya, sister (3+ / 0-)

    If I was a few decades younger - I'd seriously consider emigrating and trying to find a sane country in which to spend my remaining years.

    Please support The War on Christmas. Do it for the Reindeer Troops.

    by Anthony Page aka SecondComing on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 06:54:14 AM PST

  •  Five times in a fabric store? (3+ / 0-)

    I had no idea knitters were so militant these days.

  •  These things make the news... (5+ / 0-)

    ...and the human brain has a propensity to more strongly remember the negative (I believe that has been borne out by studies.), but every day plenty of Americans without fanfare or recognition also do things like donate their time or money, offer assistance to rather than knock down someone on crutches, and otherwise have very positive interactions with each other.

  •  Best diary on guns & gun culture I've seen. (6+ / 0-)

    Sorry you are done. Don't be, your voice needs to be heard, over and over again.

    When you talked about knowing all the names, and not the names of Nobel laureates. That really struck me. That is worth staying for and getting that concept out there.

    If I lived in Colorado I'm sure I'd be as fed up as you are. There are though plenty of crazy people into guns here in Florida too. I think I'd move to Canada or France if I could.

    "extreme concentration of income is incompatible with real democracy.... the truth is that the whole nature of our society is at stake." Paul Krugman

    by Gorette on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 07:05:25 AM PST

  •  Find a nice American coastal city to move to. (3+ / 0-)

    Not nearly as insular and insane as the middle of the country can be. We're insane in completely different ways, but on the whole, more open.

    Even if I knew that tomorrow the world would go to pieces, I would still plant my apple tree. -Martin Luther

    by the fan man on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 07:08:41 AM PST

    •  I don't think so... COASTAL CITY? (0+ / 0-)

      Are you serious?  The coasts are going under in some places in my lifetime.  Why? The reason why we speak poorly of our country..... insane people!

      I saw the Exec. Director of Greenpeace International in some Democracy Now! video after Putin gave them amnesty.  He was the sweetest guy, and he was trying to express the right message to the fossil fuel bozos that it would really help save the planet if they would stop the drilling and feel compassion for the Mother Earth and put the cash in green energy.  

      He wasn't angry, blaming them, screaming at them or anything like that.  What a sane guy... and of course he is NOT an American.

  •  Been there, done that, not coming back! (5+ / 0-)

    I left the shithole US in 19999, sailed away and hoped never to return. I did return 2004, stayed for 7 more horrible years and left again 3 years ago. I am not coming back this time. I'm too old to continue to fight the front line war. I'll continue to fight for our country, but I'll do it from abroad where I can at least live free and not worry about being shot by a fucked up redneck or steroid addled cop.

    I'm in the nice, friendly, predominately Muslim country of Malaysia right now. A truly first world country where I discovered that I couldn't purchase a spear gun for hunting fish. Anything with a trigger here, that could cause harm to a human being, can't be sold here. Imagine that!! Funny thing... In the 2 months I've been here, I've never heard one report of anyone being injured or killed by a firearm!

    There are better ways to live the rest of your life. Doing so in the US is not one of them!

    •  I disagree. (0+ / 0-)

      But I wish you the best where ever you choose to go.

      I choose to live in America & I don't share your experience of the USA being "horrible".

      I'll continue to fight for my country, while in my country.

      Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

      by FrankRose on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 02:06:58 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  what an awful diary! (6+ / 0-)

    I'm an American. Did I knock your friend over? (No)

    Did I shoot up a bunch of people? (No)

    Am I Justin Beiber? (NO)

    When has washing hands and walking away from something ever solved anything?

    Let's all recognize how great other countries all are, since they have NO assholes, and NO problems, and  festering injustices which are a strictly American thing.

    Go live somewhere else. Good luck with that. you will find some things better and depending where you go, maybe many many things more to your taste, but that's not really what you are saying with this diary, is it? you're saying that the mostly left wingers who read articles on this site are just as bad as the worst Americans (because we haven't stopped bad people doing bad things?) even though most here in so many ways are trying to improve things which is a totally thankless task most of the time, and sometimes a diary like this comes along and we're told that we are scum.

    Don't move to Europe though. They engaged in colonialism, slavery, world war, ethnic cleansing, continue to mistreat minorities, have mass shootings also, have poverty amidst great wealth. America didn't even exist when some of that started, btw.

    cheap shots and temper tantrums get us NO WHERE. Engage in a self indulgent rant if you must, but don't tell me that I'm a mass shooter or a crazed materialist. I'm neither. I am however, an American.

  •  Ecuador (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Colorado is the Shiznit

    We have certainly thought of it.

  •  Excuse me. (2+ / 0-)
    We have a metric fuckton of guns.
    We. Do. Not. Use. The. Metric. System.

    Please correct your diary (and change the title to something one of your commenters, not you, think is appropriate).

  •  Don't forget Megyn Kelly! (2+ / 0-)

    She and the Duck Dynasty con man would make a wonderful couple.

  •  One hell of a GBCW post! (0+ / 0-)

    Probably the best I've seen. And spot on.

    "Given the choice between a Republican and someone who acts like a Republican, people will vote for a real Republican every time." Harry Truman

    by MargaretPOA on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 08:12:55 AM PST

  •  Leaving on a jet plane... (11+ / 0-)

    I've had it as well. I'm done. I don't want to have to work until the day I die- and I would if I stayed. The Great Recession killed my retirement nest egg. My wife and I get our first social security checks in January. Already selling off a lifetime of possessions. Got rid of my guns. Will be moving to Cuenca Ecuador in the spring. I want to die living in a socialist country that spends its internal wealth on its people, its infrastructure and its future well being- just like we did here in America when I was growing up. I remember what it was like then and cannot bear to see it become just another corrupt banana republic.
    As a sociologist I know what it will take to turn this country around, and it's not the voting booth. It will not be a pretty nor safe place to live when that day comes as it inevitably will. Watch Italy, it could be the first country to explode.

  •  zimmerman, (2+ / 0-)


    "Show up. Pay attention. Tell the truth. And don't be attached to the results." -- Angeles Arrien

    by Sybil Liberty on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 08:26:05 AM PST

  •  Yes... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Colorado is the Shiznit
    This is just not right. Something is definitely askew with this country, and I'm looking for a quick exit because I am not sure that the United States can right itself again.

    Can it?

    But I'm afraid you are going to have to wait for my demographic (middle aged white male) to die off.

    -7.5 -7.28, A carrot is as close as a rabbit gets to a diamond.-Don Van Vliet

    by Blueslide on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 08:40:14 AM PST

  •  I hear Iraq is coming around. Maybe Yemen. (3+ / 0-)

    Or Pakistan, Syria, Libya, those places that Americans have been spreading democracy to.  
    Actually, I'm thinking of Finland.

    "It is easier to pass through the eye of a needle then it is to be an honest politician."

    by BigAlinWashSt on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 08:40:24 AM PST

  •  lol EPIC Shiz.... (2+ / 0-)

    I knooooooow the feelin'!! I just can never articulate it quite so well as you! Good to 'see' you!

    Rant away, woman. It helps. Not much, I know, but it does. Really.


    If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution. ~ Emma Goldman

    by Lady Libertine on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 08:46:16 AM PST

  •  Justin Beiber is Canadian. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Colorado is the Shiznit

    Jus sayin' And hey, you're in CO. Fire up a joint and relax!

    "Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat, but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires." - John Steinbeck

    by Bulldawg on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 08:59:21 AM PST

  •  There's a lot wrong with this country (3+ / 0-)

    and  a lot wrong with the rural south, but I just don't see five people knocking someone down in a store around here.  A single accident might happen, and way more than five people would offer to help, it wouldn't happen a second time.

  •  "Americans suck, man." Not cool. (9+ / 0-)

    Dismissing an entire group of people based on their nationality is completely uncool.

    Replace "Americans" in that sentence with another nationality. See how bad it sounds.

    There are 310,000,000 Americans. Your statement says they all suck.

    Progressives need to stop making statements like these. Hell, everyone needs to stop making statements like these.

    •  What? (4+ / 0-)

      Our economic and social policies say we are not a community.  We shouldn't have a system in place to ensure some system of economic or social justice, they're supposed to rely on the charity of their community - if they are deemed to be deserving.  And, Unfortunately. our economic system destroys any semblance of community.

      Do these things promote community?

      Stand Your Ground

      Citizens United


      Cutting UE benefits

      Promoting the idea poor children as janitors at their schools

      Gun laws that make schools unsafe for our children

      Unaffordable health insurance that is focused on preventing actual health care while the CEOs of these insurance companies make millions...

      All the austerity measures like Chained CPI

      We have a whole generation approaching retirement age who will not have the money to retire while their kids are unable to find good jobs but carry huge debt from college.

      What a country.

      What are the Democrats doing about these things?

      What are the Democrats doing about Climate Change?

    •  Telling people what they need to do (6+ / 0-)

      in response to a rant doesn't seem all that helpful, either.

      People are entitled to have thoughts in their heads, even if they are unpopular thoughts and thoughts derived from exhaustion and utter frustration. Try taking it a little less literally and try to understand the viewpoint of someone who is tired of being tired and tired of being frustrated.

      "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

      by YucatanMan on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 09:52:30 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  with all due respect, (3+ / 0-)

      Mr Bowers, I dont think you're quite in the spirit here.  It might help if you, and other naysayers here, understand that our Shiz is Teh Queen of Rant for starters, lol.

      Sure we don't all suck! But when we do, and in the ways that we do, I personally find the occasional rant about it to be rather refreshing. It reminds me that WE Americans do not in fact ALL suck and that, truly, a good number of us object to some of the more distasteful behaviors of others of us, especially those Americans of power and influence, those whose behaviors reflect badly on us all and give us a bad rep globally.

      There are times, and seasons, when it can all be very overwhelming and we just need to let off some steam. No harm no foul.

      If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution. ~ Emma Goldman

      by Lady Libertine on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 01:02:47 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  It was just a rant, Chris. (0+ / 0-)

      Calm down.

      If I turn into another, dig me up from under what is covering the better part of me. -- Incubus

      by Colorado is the Shiznit on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 01:36:02 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Ok, so people are nasty. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Instead of railing against the people who treated your friend badly, why didn't you go with your friend and protect her against the other assholes in the store? Or go and buy the items for your friend, while she stayed home to recover in safety?

    LBJ, Van Cliburn, Ike, Wendy Davis, Lady Bird, Ann Richards, Barbara Jordan, Molly Ivins, Sully Sullenburger, Drew Brees: Texas is NO Bush League!

    by BlackSheep1 on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 09:07:12 AM PST

    •  Because some people have to work long hours at (5+ / 0-)

      annoying, frustrating and dangerous jobs just to survive, most likely.

      If people who treat others badly don't deserve to be railed at, then who does?

      Do you think everyone's life is filled with free time to help all their friends?  Sometimes, we are all in the same SUCKY boat, barely afloat, you know?

      And then, people come along and kick us.

      "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

      by YucatanMan on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 09:54:39 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  CitS is not somebody who can't help others (0+ / 0-)

        Nor am I.

        Occurs to me that what we need is more people who are WILLING to take those extra steps for friends.

        LBJ, Van Cliburn, Ike, Wendy Davis, Lady Bird, Ann Richards, Barbara Jordan, Molly Ivins, Sully Sullenburger, Drew Brees: Texas is NO Bush League!

        by BlackSheep1 on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 05:14:01 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Many suggest.... (0+ / 0-)

    we should stop writing and saying the names of these murderers.  I think that has value.

    I realize this country is flawed, and we need to work hard to fix it.  As a parent, you can avoid owning a firearm and learn to ask if people safely lock their firearms before you send your child over to visit or play.  Schools and airplanes are safer places to be, and when there is a disaster, it is so horrific that one doesn't want to believe they are usually safer places.

    You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you mad. Aldous Huxley

    by murrayewv on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 09:07:51 AM PST

    •  There's a rational and caring response, both. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Thank you.

      I wish more people could be more compassionate for the things others are going through, instead of going all

      "I'm a PROUD MURICAN (liberal) and don't say bad things!"
      All those comments are not helpful. And come from not appreciating the entirety of others experiences.

      "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

      by YucatanMan on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 09:56:52 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  You need a good unplugging from media (7+ / 0-)

    and few weeks of rest with good books, great music, old friends. It's easy to feel overwhelmed by all the dreadful things that happen in the world, especially when they happen so close to home.  Sounds like you are ready for a "cure," a European-style time out for intense healing.  Only you do it at home by not watching the news, not going onto political blogs, not allowing acts of cruelty to enter into your mind.   Fill yourself up with beauty in the form of music, art, long walks, a quiet mind.  

    I bet that would help.  

    It's the Supreme Court, stupid!

    by Radiowalla on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 09:12:33 AM PST

    •  Unfortunately, the work hours that many people (3+ / 0-)

      must endure, along with enforced listening to 24/7 news while at work, doesn't allow "a few weeks of rest" for many of us.

      Fill yourself up with beauty in the form of music, art, long walks, a quiet mind.  

      I bet that would help.  

      Yes, it would help, if someone would just pay all the damn bills and help reduce the debts while underpaid and overworked people all took long walks and listened to lovely music.

      I don't mean this personally to you, Radiowalla, but reading all these comments (yours is the last one at this point in the day), it seems like there are many progressives or liberals or democrats in KOS who still don't understand that many of us progressives or liberals or democrats do not have any free time period.

      Many people's days are filled with the struggle to survive and pay the bills, period. And from that perspective, this country appears pretty mean.

      "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

      by YucatanMan on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 10:01:21 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  The diarist has 40,000 DailyKos comments. (2+ / 0-)

        I don't think this is a situation where the diarist has no free time, nor do I believe that it is for most people who get sucked into all the negativity.  I've felt alienated before, as I am sure most of us have at one time or another, and it certainly was not for lack of free time.

        •  "free time" while at work where you are required (3+ / 0-)

          to be, or at home with nothing in the world to do, are two different things.  Comments can be made on a bus on long commutes and while cooking dinner or many other "required" activities.  None of those equate into "free time," because you have to be at work, you have to be on the bus to get to work, you have to cook dinner for your kids, etc, etc.

          Deciding "free time" via comments is not a good measure, in my view.

          Do you know the diarist?  Last I was aware, she worked in a gas station. I'm sure there's all kinds of wonderful free time allowed there, while you're not getting shot or having people puke on the floor.

          "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

          by YucatanMan on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 11:04:31 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Well, (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Colorado is the Shiznit

            if the diarist has made 40,000 posts from the gas station, or while riding the bus-- which is not plausible but is possible, I guess-- then she is free to disregard our advice.  Otherwise, I think the advice is solid, for her and for a lot of folks.

            And with that, I am going to take my own advice and do something else.  Good day to all!

        •  I totally get why you would think that, (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          tardis10, DeadHead, Radiowalla

          but I don't have a ton of free time anymore.

          Most of the comments you are referring to are not recent. I'm not here too much anymore, but I do read the website on a daily basis.

          If I turn into another, dig me up from under what is covering the better part of me. -- Incubus

          by Colorado is the Shiznit on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 01:38:40 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Well, sure. Life is hard, but there is a (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Colorado is the Shiznit

        measure of control that we have, if only the control that we exercise over our own minds.  One bit of control that we have right here on this blog is to step away for a while.   This blog is full of negativity (i.e. comments like yours which point out the frightful situation of many Americans).   I'm not saying that you aren't completely right in your assessment, but merely suggesting that the diarist take a break and direct his mind elsewhere.  The day is just as long, the hours the same length whether we are thinking negatively or positively.  

        That's all.  

        (and I have a diary in the works that is about the very struggle you describe.  It will be depressing and I don't recommend it for those who need a break from the negativity)

        It's the Supreme Court, stupid!

        by Radiowalla on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 11:49:31 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  I was gonna say... (3+ / 0-)

      ... "step away from the computer, put down the remote control" etc. but your comment puts it in a much nicer way, and so I second your comment.  The only thing else I would say to someone who is feeling fed up like this is to go do something positive with the time away from the screen, don't just do passive activities like listening to music, if you are capable of doing active things.  Work out.  Give blood.  Do a home improvement project.  Gather all the broken/unnecessary stuff around the home and donate/recycle it.  Do something different with family/friends.  Positive activity = better frame of mind.  Doesn't have to be anything huge to be effective (but hey, if you get the inspiration to go big, do it!).  

    •  Yes, this helps me... (2+ / 0-)

      There is a lot of crap going on right now, and not just in the US. A lot of people appear oblivious, but I believe nearly everyone knows things are askew. Uninformed people still feel it, they just lay the blame on the closest scapegoat.
       I really need to get away from the bad news at least once a week otherwise I start going nuts and I am prone to depression, reading a good fiction book, listening to my old favorite music, and watching some seriously ridiculous comedy is my remedy.
       But I come back here, and one of the reasons I come here is it reminds that not all Americans are assholes, and not all Americans suck.

      Whoever controls the media, the images, controls the culture

      by nezzclay on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 12:53:34 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Yes. Yes yes yes. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      SO yes!

      Thanks for your comment.

      If I turn into another, dig me up from under what is covering the better part of me. -- Incubus

      by Colorado is the Shiznit on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 01:37:24 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  I have felt as you do for several years (6+ / 0-)

    I would advise anyone with the means (young enough, a little money, good health, etc.), to emigrate.  The United States is a cesspool of violence and right wing mania.  I live in Florida, I know.  I also am over sixty.  I moved to Florida in 1978 - it was a very different place.  There was an atmosphere of things getting better and more diverse and for a few years, things were falling into place for immigrants, gays, those with diverse views.  Then something caused an influx of right wing nutcases and the region changed.  It is almost unbearable now.

    I lived in Europe and regret not staying there after my service at NATO HDQT's in Belgium.  I love the French/Belgians and their cultures.  The south of France especially and most of France and a great part of Belgium, have beautiful, kind, intelligent and wonderful people.  I spent so many hours in great discussions around tables with the best food in the world.  They love their cultures and their countries (Belgium has its Flemish North - a Dutch culture beautiful in its own right).

    So many other aspects called me to return.  I waited too long as my health and age now must be considered.  Also, my only family, my son and his small family, live in the Tampa area close to me.  France has college free to all (my granddaughter is a senior, now hustling for financial aid and any available scholarships as her parents cannot pay for her college).  France has the best (bar none) health care in the world.  The specifics are unbelievable to Americans (in home post natal nurse/care help & in home Dr. visits), to name a couple.  A sense of solidarity with all other citizens, students, professionals, blue collar workers, university faculty, government employees - with strong pro family labor regulations and enforcement.  Everyone insists on generous leave and adequate pay for workers.  Pro family policies.  A wonderful sense of enjoying life and the beauty and good things in life.  Of course there are homeless and poor in cities like Paris.  But the social contract is strong and the people are generally less stressed and more able to focus on what is important - their families, their education, their fair wages, society as a whole, etc.

    I reget that I did not return to France or Belgium after military service and college.  

  •  Not to add woe to misery... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Colorado is the Shiznit

    but you forgot to add the NSA and an Orwellian-tilting society.

    Still, while I think most here share your frustration, I think they can also see there is still much good about this country, and few are ready to throw out the baby with the bathwater. Every nation has its own quirks and drawbacks. We're a long way from creating paradise anywhere here on Earth, and the answer isn't throwing up our hands in resignation, it's continuing to fight the good fight for our ideals. It can give us purpose, and it can bring us together as it does here at the dKos community. It's important to try and keep a positive outlook in the face of adversity, setbacks and obstacles, because this will help us overcome those things.

    I hope writing this diary had some cathartic value for you, providing a yin to your yang, so to speak. And publishing it here at dKos where we can all mull it over and discuss it is in itself a positive thing you've done. Best wishes on getting some sleep and getting a fresh perspective.

    •  Frustrated with this perspective (3+ / 0-)

      I've been to Europe many times: 27 different countries. The idea that every nation has its own drawbacks is frustrating to me because it ignores the range and type of drawbacks that the US has compared to other industrialized/developed countries (I dislike these terms, but that's what's commonly used). Read tommyfocus's comment again regarding France. Now, compare the situation in France to the situation in the US for their respective peoples. There is a gigantic difference between the quality of life that most Europeans' can experience and most Americans. I consider the positive outlook regarding the US to be a type of head in the sand perspective. Nothing is going to systemically change until people give up this positivity and look the cold, hard truths in the face: the US is a rogue nation, morally bankrupt, cruel, based on social darwinist principles and systemically still mired in violence, genocide and slavery as 'solutions' to 'problems'. Those are not just some "drawbacks".

      •  Certainly not ignoring the scope and extent (0+ / 0-)

        of our problems. You obviously haven't checked out my comments. If you're confusing me with some kind of apologist, you're definitely barking up the wrong tree. And you seem to be ignoring I had just added another problem the author neglected to mention to his list of complaints in the comment to which you are responding.

        I have two sister-in-laws that were born and raised European, and family members who visit there regularly with them. Consequently, I am also intimately aware that they have their own litany of complaints over there. Some are better than others. But none are perfect and they all have their own idiosyncrasies.

        Anyhow, I wasn't confining the comparison to just European nations. The comparison was against the average mean, and as far as that goes, we are far, far better off overall than the great majority of people in this world. And that is reason enough for us to be grateful for the advantages we do enjoy and not take them for granted. But that does not preclude the need for improvement, or the recognition thereof.

        Remaining positive doesn't mean putting your head in the sand. That's your own erroneous stereotype. It's like taking the view that people drinking coffee like to burn themselves. You want to take that view, fine--just don't expect others to subscribe to it. Negativity isn't so great for convincing people to support your causes, nor does it put one in a very productive frame of mind to create and work on solutions. It isn't good for an individual's physical and mental health. If you or others want to take that low road, I can advise against it, but I can't stop you. Whatever makes you happy (or unhappy).

        Personally, I choose not to jam myself up or get bogged down in all that negativity. Sure, I get frustrated, disappointed, angry and disgusted by things in our government and society, just like anyone else. But I also make a conscious decision to remain resilient and positive, and not let those things beat my spirits down. It doesn't prevent me from identifying problems, nor does it lessen my resolve to work to fix them, or keep me from striving for my ideals. As the great patriot Karl Schurz said, "'Tis not, my country, right or wrong; 'tis, my country, that which is right to be kept right, that which is wrong to be set right."

        The negativity is reminiscent of white-ringers who condemn government categorically and get themselves all worked up into a lather over the daily outrage, losing perspective. How is ranting and raving and condemning America categorically any different or better? Don't let it happen to you. I think the author of this diary is better than that, and I think you're better than that.

        •  Realistic Not Negative (0+ / 0-)

          I consider myself realistic, not negative. The way I see things, there have been good people doing good things, saying nice things, being positive and optimistic all along. However, it is a fact that we have lost ground, especially economic ground, in the past four decades with particularly egregious losses in the past almost decade. Or, I should say the lower economic strata has lost ground and that is what, to me, really defines a society, i.e. how that lower strata is faring.

          So, despite positive people staying optimistic and doing good things in their own small way, etc., there has been, for example:

          a) Citizen's United, which is the nail in the coffin for a political voice for those of us on the margins.

          b) Widening gap between rich and poor.

          c) Decimation of the power of workers at the point of production, to where this concept is even completely foreign to many progressives.

          d) Growing homelessness.


          Why, if there have been good people all along doing good things and being positive (and that is what we should pay attention to), are there more homeless children in New York City at any time besides the Great Depression?

          You know, I don't think my attitude is reminiscent of right wingers at all. I think it's reminiscent of a type of leftism that has faded exponentially in the US since the absolute ascendency of capitalism.

          •  There is a distinct difference between (0+ / 0-)

            trying to stay positive and being complacent, willfully ignorant, or apathetic.

            The problems we face can't be attributed to the former, but could to the latter things.

            ...if there have been good people all along doing good things and being positive (and that is what we should pay attention to)
            Straw man argument. You seem intelligent enough you should have realized this was disingenuous and a logical fallacy. It could easily be turned around against you: if doing good things and being negative (and that is what we should pay attention to), than how come we have all these problems getting worse?

            Another logical fallacy: Where is the proof or evidence that trying to retain a positive attitude is responsible for our problems? In fact, I've been around quite some time, and what I see is not more positivity, hope, and can do, it's less. Instead, I see more pessimism, more cynicism, more negativity, and less hope. And, no, I don't think Obama has been the force for change we hoped for. But I refuse to let that destroy my hope for a better future, keep me from working to make it happen, or let it turn me sour and bitter.

            It's also a logical fallacy because the presumption is that one can't retain an overall positive attitude and still be just as effective an implement for change. Both things can coexist. And, actually, I've laid out a couple of arguments for why it is better, which haven't been refuted.

            I also consider myself a realist (and an activist progressive). But you notably evade the question posed. How is blanket condemnation of America significantly different or better than blanket condemnation of government?

            My original post, which spoke to the diary, was intended to be supportive and helpful. It doesn't appear the author took it the wrong way. You were the only one who voiced a problem with it. And I think my point stands that we often remember the bad, but we forget the good, which can cloud our perspective.

            •  Yes, I had a problem with it (0+ / 0-)

              But, it wasn't a personal problem. I'm not the one who equated the views you expressed with the right wing.

              From my point of view, I see a lot of: 1) false hope, false because based on the premise that things are not fundamentally flawed with our system and that all we need is reform; 2) denial that the overarching data (I mentioned above) regarding poverty, powerlessness, etc. means anything fundamental, because of personal anecdote regarding positive action in one's own community; 3) denial that good intentions, attitudes don't do much to address power and wealth inequalities; 4) marginalization of anything other than 'positivity' and calling it out as a 'bad' attitude/not progressive; 5) an individualistic/classless/market based understanding of political/social issues, i.e. the personal is political; etc.

              I'm not the one who posited that negativity is beneficial. Again, I don't see myself as negative, but realistic. I think unrealistic appraisal of the situation causes an inability to address the problems of that situation.

              A condemnation of America is significantly different than a blanket condemnation of government itself in that it is specifically America, out of all of the so-called developed countries, that has the rate of inequality, lack of mobility, rate of incarceration, lack of universal health care, rate of student debt, rate of homelessness, emphasis on greed and selfishness to the detriment of the social contract, capital punishment etc. How are these facts about America not significant? How do they not show a significant and unique problem with the United States?

              As to the question of being better off than people in other countries, why is the rate of infant mortality lower in every Western European nation than the U.S.? Should we simply be grateful that we aren't at the rate of all of the countries that are below us, or realize that it is a huge problem that we aren't at least at the same rate as Sweden (one of the lowest in the world).

              With where the US is at in terms of level of wealth, history of widespread democratic ideals, history of social movements, access to technology, information, and education, etc. we should be way less satisfied, as a people, with the way things are, and a whole lot less sanguine about our collective situation.

              •  Is the glass half-full or half-empty? (0+ / 0-)

                Well, the diary seemed to be looking at as empty or nearly empty, and you chose to take issue with my pointing it out. At best, it could be said your replies indicate you view it as half-empty. I call that negativity. I see the glass as half-full, and I'm looking to top it off.

                Could we do better? Should we be doing better? Is there reason to be disappointed or dismayed at the rate of progress, or that in some areas we have actually regressed? I don't dispute the answer to all is yes. Are those sufficient cause to abandon ship or start looking for a quick exit? No. All they are is reasons to fight harder for our ideals.

                I didn't say you had a personal problem with me, but you definitely seem to have a problem with my viewpoint. And that's fine, I don't have any issues with that. However, you are failing to make any convincing arguments as to what is wrong with my viewpoint.

                I notice you don't apologize for--or even concede--your logical fallacies from the previous, despite being pointed out to you. Instead, you choose to employ another one. Being reminded of an attitude frequently displayed on the right-wing does not mean equating anyone's views to the right-wing. Again, there is a big distinction there. Such logical fallacies are often used to mask the lack of good argument, and are a disingenuous tactic.

                Which also reminds me that you haven't conceded or offered any counter-argument here to the difference between positivity and complacency, apathy, etc. pointed out previously. Furthermore, your argument was simplistic in that it neglects the impact of competing ideologies and changing attitudes on our society. Sure, big money, voter suppression and gerrymandering play large roles, but there has also been a shift among the population that affects policy. Swings to the left and back to the right occur on a regular basis in this country, and I suspect it is no different elsewhere. The pendulum has been swinging back our way for some time now, giving reason for hope. But even during FDR's time, change was slow coming.

                You can see what you want, but what I see next is an attempt by you to mischaracterize or attribute a number of positions to me that I simply don't have, which also constitutes another straw man. I don't think all those things are necessarily true, either.

                I don't see many people expressing much hope at all, much less false hope. Not only that, but hope--even false hope--is a powerful driving force, and not something to be discarded when the going gets tough.

                Who's denying those things don't mean anything fundamental? The implication is that people not sharing your overly pessimistic view or conclusion are wrong. Reasonable people can disagree on what that fundamental meaning might be or signify, though. Additionally, you could pick just about any point in time in our country's history, point out the problems prevalent in that period, and make the same claim. It would be foolish to think our nation hopelessly irredeemable, or that problems can't be remedied. That's a defeatist attitude. What anecdote?

                Good intentions and attitude can make a considerable difference--but it isn't that simple, and I never held that it was or that those things by themselves were all that was required.

                The characterization of "marginalization" is grossly inaccurate, as is the rest. This is just silly, given that the author and your views on the issues appear nearly identical to my own.

                The last one I'm not even sure what you're trying to get at, but it definitely doesn't seem to describe me or most people I know. And let's not forget, your response was to my viewpoint, not some nebulous "others." I can't speak for them; I can only speak for myself.

                No one stated you said negativity is beneficial, but, again, that could be inferred from what you have written. This is yet another false premise. I also think you're confusing things here. There is a difference between being opposed to what we find wrong and displaying an overall negativity, which I thought the diary did, and which I find you doing.

                You fail to see that a blanket condemnation of America is no different or better than a blanket condemnation of government because you fail to see that one could be substituted for the other--they can be used interchangeably. And it is the same type of thing heard all too often from right-wingers; "This country has gone to shit!"

                You point out everything that is wrong, but you fail to point out even one thing right. That's just negativity. No attempt is made here to look at all factors, weigh them, and then make a fair assessment of the balance. Furthermore, the comparisons you make are to those better in this area or that area, ignoring that you are cherry-picking the data and that overall we are still far above the mean average. The point isn't that we should be satisfied or complacent, the point is that this presents a skewed perspective.

  •  A counter example (10+ / 0-)

    I was on the train the other week when a day school full of little kids got on with two adults guiding them. There were no seats available.
       I took a quick look around and then stood and motioned to one of the adults, "Take my seat."

      Almost immediately everyone around me got up and offered their seats to the kids so they wouldn't fall down when the train jerked.

      The thing that struck me is the power of an example.
    No one got up until I did. But once I made an example, suddenly everyone wanted to follow a good example.

      People of America are good people. They are just out of touch with each other.

    None are so hopelessly enslaved, as those who falsely believe they are free. The truth has been kept from the depth of their minds by masters who rule them with lies. -Johann von Goethe

    by gjohnsit on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 09:45:49 AM PST

  •  I understand your (2+ / 0-)

    frustration. But, in many ways, this diary typifies the cognitive biases that accrue to even the best of us in our media-saturated environment.

    For easily understood reasons, the traditional media shine a spotlight on the worst of society (crime, incivility, etc.) while virtually ignoring the millions of good deeds and lives well lived every day. Then there's the liberal blogosphere and social media infrastructure -- yeah, I've been here for 9 years, it's like family -- but it's also a clearinghouse for everything stupid that any conservative has said or done anywhere in the nation. Someone uttered a racial slur in Pennsylvania? Someone fired someone for bad credit in Montana? Someone pushed a woman on crutches in Colorado? It's all here, in concentrated, unfiltered form with no larger perspective.

    Believe me, having devoted much of my life to fighting injustice, I'm not minimizing the importance of shedding sunlight on these things. But it can be hard to keep a balanced view of humanity amid the endless catalogue of wrongdoings racing through our news feeds. But there's a lot to love about our country and its people too, even for the most cynical (check) or depressed (check) among us -- there just isn't much incentive to tell their stories in the contemporary media environment.

    Hope you fall on your burger and fries.

    by cardinal on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 09:56:05 AM PST

  •  No, no, no. "We have a metric ... (9+ / 0-)

    ...fuckton of guns."

    No. Because we're too dumb, as a nation, to actually go on the metric system.

    Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

    by Meteor Blades on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 09:56:57 AM PST

  •  Could not agree more. (3+ / 0-)

    This country has gone off the rails. The crazies and fascists are winning, oh, and Jesus. I tell my young adult children to GTFO of here. The lunatics are running the asylum.

    William Golding was correct and the social structure in Lord of the Flies is coming to pass.  I can no longer find anything to be optimistic about.

  •  About a year ago, I posted my first diary (4+ / 0-)

    In the comment thread, a number of expats weighed in that what was happening in America was deeply disturbing but that those still in the States didn't seem to fully 'get it' yet. Readers pushed back saying 'hey, it isn't that bad'.

    The expats were right. America is operating in a bubble of misery and angst and hate. The rest of the world is dealing with its own issues, but America is really in a class of its own with its self-induced misery.

  •  So turns out the RW is right about something, (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TrebLoc, Rich in PA

    after all:

    The left really does hate America.

  •  This is your problem with America? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    greengemini, FrankRose, Texas Lefty

    Gun control? The US carries out 50,000 no-knock raids a year, I bet 95% are drug related, how many people get killed from that? How many people are serving 10 years to life for non-violent crimes? That has 1,000's of times as many victims as school shootings. More than 2% of the African American population is behind bars. How many innocent people have we killed in drone attacks in Afghanistan? How many Iraqis died just because? Not surprising that children think that violence is the answer to every problem and a way to blow off steam.
    How about the divergence of wealth and people living below the poverty level. 25% of Americans live in a Third World country.  How many of their children go to bed hungry? The most in the developed world. How many die because they can't afford medical care? Their infant mortality rates are on par with Nicaragua. Do you really think the US is about to disarm hundreds of millions of guns, when the population doesn't even agree with it? Time for you to get real about what the problems facing people every day are.

    "You can die for Freedom, you just can't exercise it"

    by shmuelman on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 11:32:16 AM PST

  •  Hi there... grrrrr (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Colorado is the Shiznit

    I came to DKos looking for a rap session.  What a title!  Up to here too.  NSA snooping in particular.  Nobody waste a keystroke telling me I'm immune.  Or my periodic connectivity lapses - when I can see my neighbors are connected all around me - have nothing to do with big brudder.

    This is what we loved about Mexico (villages, not cites.  Forget cities, one and all).  Went shopping on the other side last week for example.  Bag split, grapefruit falls out.  Before I can harrumph out loud, a young man dashes over to pick it up and hand it to me.  Took off, just what kids do in smaller places.

    Or the time I was blocking the street, double parked while bringing a bicycle to be repaired.  Car pulls up behind me.  Instead of honking, guy turns off engine, gets out, helps me unload bike, carries it for me to the shop door.

    Could cite hundreds of such examples.  The secret (not ciities, villages - did I mention that)?  Extended family.  Community still intact.  NOBODY anonymous there.

    Have always had a weakness for tribal societies, known plenty of friends among them, lived among them for years on and off.

    Trouble with industrialization is people dying of anonymity.  Among a billion other things.

    Muse constantly on this.  How even English, French, Germans etc. etc. are indigenous.  But not here.  It is a vast tidepool of strangers bumping into one another.  Not a healthy index.  Only a few such anonymous brews on earth - Canada, Australia and New Zealand for instance.  All cities are collections of strangers.  That is when you see abuse kick in.   Try shoving over a shopper with six of your extended family watching,  

    Any European villagers reading?  What's yourrudeness index?

    Kind of waylaid here in the US, mean to go live in a village somewhere again.

    Thanks for this diary and the chance to get that off my chest.  

    I know, I know, crime on the reservations.  That's another diary.  It's coming soon on the anniversary of Wounded Knee.  That is, if the NSA or "whatever" doesn't jam up my connectivity again for a half hour (ever noticed how the little wheelie icon (name?) for "waiting" goes counterclockwise when your connectivity is jammed, counterclockwise when connected?  Hi, NSA, is that you?).

  •  Right on, shiz... I'm with ya. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Colorado is the Shiznit

    When the masses finally realize that media has been co-opted into endlessly repeated distraction and obfuscation so we won't realize we're being conned, maybe we'll actually hit the streets, as are some of our brothers and sisters in some Euro countries, as their survival is threatened.  Except for the wretched poor in America, the increasing corporate presence in and control of our lives goes on apace, and a relative few of us may whine and complain, and even experience sympathetic voices... but until our very survival is threatened (read fighting over food and shelter), we'll stay mostly relatively comfortable and safe and dry and fed... hungrily watching TV and lapping up other media distractions and somehow believe we're experiencing reality.

    The more completly fed up folks like you who voice an opinion, the better.

    "There's always room for cello." Yo Yo Ma

    by ceebee7 on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 11:47:21 AM PST

  •  A word of advice (3+ / 0-)

    Kill your TV. It will do wonders for your intellect and your sanity.

  •  Don't let the door hit you on the way out. n/t (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
  •  I just had my Italian citizenship recognized -- (2+ / 0-)

    many ancestors of Italians don't realize that Italy has blood citizenship laws. In other words, you are an Italian citizen if your ancestor that emigrated to Italy had your next ancestor (birth) prior to naturalizing as an American (same is true, as well, if your emigrating ancestor never naturalized at all.) Of course, some exceptions, but it's a real good opportunity for those who want the option of living anywhere in the European Union.

  •  Oh well, America's not for everyone. n/t (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    It's not the side effects of the cocaine/I'm thinking that it must be love

    by Rich in PA on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 12:43:58 PM PST

  •  I'm sorry but with all due respect (5+ / 0-)

    this is beyond silly.

    Americans suck? Sure. They are humans.  Humans often suck.  Guess what, go anywhere on this planet and you will find a whole lot more humans that suck.  Russians that suck.  Germans that suck.  Zimbabweans that suck.

    It's one thing to say hey we have problems and we need to make them better.  I'm even down with, we aren't the best in the world nor super special...we are as flawed as everyone else.

    What I get tired of is this whole Americans are especially evil or bad.  It's "American Exceptionalism" in and of itself just with a minus sign in front of it.

    We ain't especially awesome nor are we especially horrible.

  •  Please excuse the lenght of this one but I'm (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Colorado is the Shiznit

    completely Friggin sick and tired of this crap in our country too. Here's the letter I just wrote to my Republican Representative regarding the unemployment extensions among "other things."

    To: Congressional Republican/Tea Party members.

    Good and Decent, Hard Working families in Nevada and throughout this nation are hurting because of a lack of integrity, intelligence, competence and a complete lack of common sense in THIS CONGRESS. The REALITY IS that the Republicans have the destructive grime of the recession, constant and damaging obstruction, shutdowns costing this country 24 BILLION dollars (would pay for unemployment for a year), wars and programs that were NEVER PAID FOR OR "OFFSET" and HUGE subsides to big oil and big Ag that they do NOT NEED and your party has the unmitigated gall to actually take food out of the mouths of people that YOU basically put out of work and have kicked while they're down every chance you get, calling them lazy. How about DOING YOUR JOB and putting the JOBS AND INFRASTRUCTURE BILLS on the table for a vote or are you all too cowardly and brow beat by an ignorant minority of extremists and corporate sugar daddy's to actually do the job you were sent there to do and SERVE ALL OF AMERICA. You're party had the heaviest hand in creating the mess we are still trying to pull out of and it's YOUR responsibility to HELP CORRECT THE DAMAGE. We are Independents in our household, always voted for who we believed was the best PERSON to represent our State and our Country but since President Obama was elected, your party has only added to the damage and shown how incredibly selfish, arrogant and ignorant you can be over and over. I will not be voting for Republicans/Tea Party ever again. You've shown your complete disregard and intolerance of the very people that are the backbone and economic engine of this country. The 2010 election of "good ole bait and switch" politics from the Republicans shows how easy it is for your party to lie and pander and then do nothing. The Republican/Tea Party has NOTHING viable or decent to offer America, ONLY hateful, negative obstruction. Even without the Republican's help, this administration has won MAJOR policy debates and we continue to move forward. Just think how much better our people and this nation would be at this point IF the Republican/Tea Party would have been interested in actually doing their jobs and providing a good and secure future that we could look to, to try to depend on. Hateful revenge, childish fit throwing, taking OUR country hostage every time you don't get YOUR way, greed and power driven agendas will not be acceptable to America and it's very clear as to just exactly WHY your party has elected to try to completely destroy this administration and OUR Democracy. It's certainly not because of an economic agenda fight. Your collusion to take this President down on his first day shows just exactly why your party, thank goodness, is slowing dissolving into the sunset. Today's major majority in America is tired of racism, bigotry, inequality both social and economical and the hypocritical bias that comes with that blinded mindset. The divide and conquer MO of the Republicans is disgustingly un-American and to cut the last hope from people that are simply trying to hang on until CONGRESS has people in it that will actually do THEIR JOBS and create the programs and opportunities for people to get jobs that will bring the unemployment figures down further will shoot just one more hole in the very lousy job your already doing.    

  •  Been there (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Metric Only

    I had to use a walker for a month due to third degree burns on my legs. Cars didn’t want to stop for me. Try getting out of the way of a car barreling down on you in a parking lot when you are shuffling along with a walker. Not possible. I pretty much lost faith in humanity during that time. And now you tell me things haven’t changed a bit. And I moved to Colorado from Florida three years ago and thought people were nicer here. :(

  •  if that diary is short, you're not looking hard (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    enough for the good stuff.

    I'll be writing another diary in the days to come about things I love about this country. It might be a short diary

    “Most people are willing to take the Sermon on the Mount as a flag to sail under, but few will use it as a rudder by which to steer.” ― Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.

    by SpamNunn on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 06:27:09 PM PST

  •  I hear you, but it's also true that I interacted (0+ / 0-)

    With about two dozen strangers in Alabama today, and they were helpful and kind in less than pleasant circumstances.

    “liberals are the people who think that cruelty is the worst thing that we do” --Richard Rorty Also, I moved from NYC, so my username is inaccurate.

    by jeff in nyc on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 08:05:31 PM PST

  •  If I could I would move.... (0+ / 0-)

    ...other than my elderly mother I have nothing holding me here really other than fear and a lack of money.

    We Glory in war, in the shedding of human blood. What fools we are.

    by delver rootnose on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 08:58:32 PM PST

    •  Uhhhh.. so we've gone from (0+ / 0-)

      electing MORE and "better" democrats to: Let's get the Hell out of the United States?


      "It is essential that there should be organization of Labor. Capital organizes & therefore Labor must organize" Theodore Roosevelt

      by Superpole on Sun Dec 22, 2013 at 04:56:15 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Yassis. I cannot believe the incredibly rude (0+ / 0-)

    push back you are getting for this diary. Apparently, you are either with US or again' US. Gee. Where have I heard that before?

    It is a big and fascinating world out there and if you want to go live in it, for whatever reason, more power to you.

    I'll tell you this, America is living in an incredibly angry bubble. Spend some time outside the country and you quickly start to realize just how bizarre and out of sync what is happening here really is.

  •  All would-be ex-pats, be careful what you wish for (4+ / 0-)

    I've spent a quarter of my life abroad, and when you gain one thing, you generally lose another.  I know what it's like to look to the horizon and dream of a better, saner place.  But what you find when you finally get to those places is that they are just places, not utopias, because they are populated and governed by people.  They have corrupt governments, and racists, and haters and assholes, too.  They have their problems, probably different problems, but problems nonetheless, and you have to deal with them.  

    Plus there's always culture shock and possibly new languages to learn.  Want to feel really lonely?  Move to a country where you know the language well enough to get by but not to talk deeply or meaningfully on any subject.  If you stand it long enough, and learn the language well enough to do so, then you'll find that those enlightened and gentle people really are just people after all and yak about the same stupid crap everyone else does.  

    I'm not trying to discourage anyone.  I'm just pointing out the reality- we are ALL humans, and until we solve our human problems and foibles, the only way you're going to escape from the crap you seek escape from would be to become a hermit and live off the land... and you can do that pretty much anywhere, and the USA is actually more conducive to that lifestyle than most places.  

    Odds and ends about life in Japan:

    by Hatrax on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 09:20:43 PM PST

  •  And Justine Sacco! nt (0+ / 0-)

    "The poor can never be made to suffer enough." Jimmy Breslin

    by merrywidow on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 10:02:49 PM PST

  •  Weeping with you, Schiznit. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Nisi Prius, alx9090

    Why is it that our country will collectively lose our shit if some foreigners kill a few Americans, but its ok with some citizens that 30,000 of us are shot to death every year by our fellow citizens?  How can it be that some people are so blinded by their gun rights that they cannot see the damage they allow?

  •  What everybody knows (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    left of center

    but they're afraid to admit: America sucks.  Got it?  Our country sucks.  Whatever we were bought up to believe was great about it, is gone.  It might be great again, but I suspect that ship done sailed.  So to all those rednecks and rich assholes who ran the USA into the ground: are you proud of yourselves?  It's yours.

    Col. Brandt: "What do you think we'll do when we lose the war?" Capt. Kiesel: "Prepare for the next one." --from "Cross of Iron"

    by ConservatismSuxx on Sun Dec 22, 2013 at 12:55:26 AM PST

  •  HAD ENOUGH YET?? (0+ / 0-)

    Still think the U.S. is THE greatest nation in world history?


    "It is essential that there should be organization of Labor. Capital organizes & therefore Labor must organize" Theodore Roosevelt

    by Superpole on Sun Dec 22, 2013 at 04:54:54 AM PST

  •  I love this country (0+ / 0-)

    For all its foibles and failures, its a great place.
    Just wanted to see that said on this page

    Happy just to be alive

    by exlrrp on Sun Dec 22, 2013 at 05:12:05 AM PST

  •  re: your update: (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    So glad to hear that your diary wasn't a GBCW after all. :-))))

    Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

    by corvo on Sun Dec 22, 2013 at 06:09:33 AM PST

  •  And all of America is responsible for this? (0+ / 0-)
    Who the hell knocks down a chick on crutches?! Assholes, that's who.
    Things like this and much, much worse happen in other countries too. Most people everwhere aren't nearly this bad.
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