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President Barack Obama holds a press conference in the James S. Brady Press Briefing Room of the White House, Dec. 20, 2013.
Do you approve of the way that President Barack Obama is doing his job?

Poll

Do you approve of the way that President Barack Obama is doing his job?

74%7017 votes
16%1563 votes
8%781 votes

| 9370 votes | Vote | Results

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Comment Preferences

  •  No "Rox", no "sux", no "pie" choices: (14+ / 0-)

    am I still on daily kos?

    Christie: "I'm going to find the real bullies!"

    by Inland on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 12:52:16 PM PST

  •  these polls aren't fair (9+ / 0-)

    certain people should be allowed to vote more than everyone else because they feel it more.

    •  I feel the same way about sock puppets, (0+ / 0-)

      but alas, there are verboten.

      Which reminds me,
      what's the deal with all of this modesty glorification?

      Some folks have so much more to be modest about,
      it most certainly must make attainment
      so much easier and less challenging.

      But, we are all judged by the same standard!
      I hate it when this happens.

      The means is the ends in the process of becoming. - Mahatma Gandhi

      by HoundDog on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 01:03:33 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Needs more poll options (22+ / 0-)

    I mostly approve but have reservations with the way he is handling the NSA spying and drone strikes as well as some other issues. I think he's head and shoulders above the GOP alternative, but would prefer a real progressive in the White House.

    Voting straight party D 'til there's no GOP...
    Oh and the name is Jim, not Tim, the user name is a typo

    by jusjtim35 on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 12:55:54 PM PST

    •  To be sure, the poll doesn't ask (4+ / 0-)

      about approval relative to the existing alternatives, it just asks about approval regarding Pres. Obama's leadership performance, period. So, I'd think the position you described would go in the "no" category.

      Government and laws are the agreement we all make to secure everyone's freedom.

      by Simplify on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 01:00:20 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •   did you vote? (6+ / 0-)

      I could have voted for any of the three responses
      depending on the context.

      Responding to Rush Limbaugh's
      highly politicize attempts
      to undermine all things progressive
      a resounding, "YES!"

      Privately having a beer
      with a bunch of fellow avant garde
      and more advanced progressives
      a wistful and sad, "No! but with remaining glimmers of hope for a more progressive transformation during the remainder of the term"

      With regard to centuries long historical averages,
      still "undecided."

      The means is the ends in the process of becoming. - Mahatma Gandhi

      by HoundDog on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 01:09:59 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I voted yes (8+ / 0-)

        Because I mostly approve. Even with the reservations I have about those issues I still think he's accomplished a fair amount in his time in office especially in light of the rampant obstruction he has faced. He could be better though.

        Voting straight party D 'til there's no GOP...
        Oh and the name is Jim, not Tim, the user name is a typo

        by jusjtim35 on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 01:14:12 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  So did I. This context is sufficiently signicant (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          reginahny

          that we need to vote against reggressivism,
          and recognize that without context
          such a vote can, and will be interpreted as really asking,
          "Do you prefer President Obama or former President Bush, or future potential President Ted Cruz, Chris Christie, or perhaps some might even be thinking PM Benjamin Netanyahu?

          The means is the ends in the process of becoming. - Mahatma Gandhi

          by HoundDog on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 01:24:20 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  If "the buck stops here" standard is to be applied (19+ / 0-)

    then I'm calling out the President for TPP and the rest of the crappy trade deals that harm the 99% (and the environment) his waffling on Keystone XL (just end the debate, Mr. President, you can do it!) and more. And let's not even go into the NSA. OK, lets, that's effed up and he should know better.

    Yes, he's not Mitt Romney and for Zeus, Ceiling Cat, and the Starchy One I'm thankful for that. But we deserve more, we need more than that. So "No" on this vote.

    There are lies, damn lies, and statistics but they all pale in comparison to conservative talking points.

    by ontheleftcoast on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 12:56:14 PM PST

    •  Additionally... (5+ / 0-)

      The crap about the Fed pulling back on regulating the commodity trading on the TBTJail Banks, the whole incestuous relationship with Wall Street, the DOJ cutting itself in for a small percentage of looted booty from the TBTJail Banks while grinding the bones of the guy who exposed the Stubinville Rape Cover-Up.

      Leadership?  When spineless Dems trade 'no additional hungry children' for defunding the SEC & FCTC, where is the Bully Pulpit outrage?  OK, maybe the only choice, and I don't believe this, but maybe the ONLY choice to not cutting SNAP even further is to cripple regulation enforcement to make it easier for Banks to loot the US economy, but at least the President and Congressional Dems could be pissed about it.  As it is, they look complicit which just feeds Dem voter apathy heading into the midterms.

    •  Me too same reasons (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ontheleftcoast, NonnyO, Mr Robert, jarbyus

      with a big huge sad that I cannot look at him in the same hopeful light that I did in 2008

      ALL of our institutions have been hollowed out by the greed ethos. There are none left with heart intact or souls for that matter. So the zombie is all around us - me

      by glitterscale on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 02:38:33 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  I think this current veto threat... (8+ / 0-)

    ...is a good sign he's doing something right.

    Let's pray that the House Repubs make it a little easier for a few more Dem senators to stand with the President on Iran.

    all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

    by 4kedtongue on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 12:57:12 PM PST

    •  I'll wait to see if the "cave factor" (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      NonnyO, Mr Robert

      rears it's ugly head as it almost always does at the end--I'm done having hope over "lines in the sand, the buck stops here, hold my feet to the fire and I will NOT compromise" until After the dust settles. I'm afraid we've seen This movie too many times already, imo.

      •  He's made his position clear. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Eyesbright

        It's up to Reid to whip up just enough Dems to maintain the veto.  It will be a test of leadership -- he's definitely going up a powerful lobby and some pretty influential legislators in his own party.

        all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

        by 4kedtongue on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 04:45:43 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  I am 100% behind the President on (9+ / 0-)

      the Iranian sanctions issues, and so should all good Democrats and Americans.

      America had a long tradition
      of a bi-partisan rallying-behind-the-president
      during foreign policy crises, or big issues,
      such has diplomatic efforts to avoid war.

      How near the edge of shameful betrayal
      is it to undermine our President
      in his constitutionally granted executor
      of foreign policy and national security.

      I intend to remember all those
      including Democrats
      who undermine our President
      in these issues.

      Especially, when a the most right-wing political faction of foreign power is intervening in our American democratic processt trying to superimpose
      their national security priorities over our own.

      The means is the ends in the process of becoming. - Mahatma Gandhi

      by HoundDog on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 01:18:50 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  And Democrats are leading this. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        4kedtongue, HoundDog

        Chuck Schumer is actively whipping Democratic senators to support this bill, and 59 have signed on it now. Before you know it he will have a veto-proof majority.

        •  What a shame. I wish he and others like him would (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          4kedtongue

          think more about the longer-term, bigger-picture harm to his own causes, many of which are worthwhile and support, that he and others severely damage with actions like this.  Sadly, the classic Fixes that Backfire systems thinking archetype.

          The means is the ends in the process of becoming. - Mahatma Gandhi

          by HoundDog on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 04:29:02 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  Poll does not offer enough options (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    MPociask, koosah, flevitan, Sylv, Eyesbright

    Essentially, I'm pleased with the president's job. But, on the other hand, there are some things that I'm not pleased about.

    So it's not a strict yes-or-no situation, and "undecided" doesn't quite fit the bill either.

    Consider me "mostly."

    As through this world I've wandered,
    I've seen lots of funny men;
    Some will rob you with a six-gun,
    Some with a fountain pen.
    -- Woody Guthrie

    by Senor Unoball on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 12:57:30 PM PST

    •  I see it as an employee evaluation, and, as (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Senor Unoball

      such, it needs categorization, you know, like:

      1.Meet and Deal skills
      2. Selling the Product
      3. Hiring & firing subordinates (& selecting them)
      4. Supervising subrodinates
      5. Communicating expectations
      6. Dealing with emergencies
      7. Honesty with the customers (but see #2)
        etc.

      Each category, of course, would get a score on some acale like 1 to 5 or 1 to 7, which could then also generate an overall score.

      That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

      by enhydra lutris on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 03:29:48 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  72% (6+ / 0-)

    for a right-wing President. Go figure.

    The Republicans are crazy, but why we follow them down the rabbit hole is beyond me.

    by Jazzenterprises on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 12:58:46 PM PST

  •  I voted yes (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    doroma, reginahny, fcvaguy, Eyesbright

    even though I have been quite critical of Obama on certain issues recently, specifically the NSA disclosures (and whistleblowers generally).

    I'm a liberal, I can't possibly agree with anybody 100% of the time....

    You WANT me on that server! You NEED me on that server!

    by nota bene on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 12:59:50 PM PST

  •  Okay, he's OUR panopticon master. (5+ / 0-)

    It pisses me off, the NSA business. If a Republican president pulled that shit we'd be in the streets.  He gets high marks from me on gay marriage, the judiciary, the Supreme Court (please dear god just one more appointment) and the economy, at least now that he seems to have recovered from his early bout of Austerity Fever. He stared down the bastards at the Default Pass, nailed Bin Laden, saved GM, and say what you like about the ACA, he has won a great victory.  And he seems to finally--finally!-- get the Rude Pundit's proposition concerning the GOP, that the thing about motherfuckers is, you shouldn't be shocked when they fuck their mothers.  

    The NSA thing drives me nuts, though.

    •  a Republican President did "pull that shit" (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      nickrud, reginahny

      Obama inherited and continued the programs conceived and initiated by the Bush administration.

      And yes, the person taking the action is actually crucial information in deciding what to do.

      Imagine, if you will, you see a strange person drive up and place a ladder against your neighbor's house from the street.

      Then you see that man climb up the ladder and smash in a window and go inside.

      Does it matter that the guy is wearing a fireman's uniform and drove up in a fire truck? Obviously.

      So we're not in the street because Obama is not George W Bush. We trust him. Maybe we should and maybe we shouldn't. Maybe that fireman's uniform is a fake and the truck is stolen...

  •  He lost me when he put Social Security cuts on (6+ / 0-)

    the table.  He's way too centrist on economic policy.  I give him more credit on foreign policy except for Afghanistan and making drone warfare normal.

    •  He needs to sound serious (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Eyesbright

      If his budget proposal consisted of tax hikes and spending increases, he would be laughed out. This at least allows him to claim the higher ground and have reason to say that he is willing to compromise. Of course, the GOP isn't interested in anything else than shredding safety nets in order to fund huge tax cuts for the rich. Even when Obama made a generous offer in the summer of 2011, Boehner refused to accept it because it had a couple of tax loopholes closed.

    •  Same here (0+ / 0-)

      Obama lost me. That's why I voted for Jill Stein in 2012.

      My invisible imaginary friend is the "true" creator

      by Mr Robert on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 03:28:04 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Yes. (8+ / 0-)

    Hell, yes.

    How about I believe in the unlucky ones?

    by BenderRodriguez on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 01:04:43 PM PST

  •  These choices are frustrating, but I've decided (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    reginahny, fcvaguy, Eyesbright

    that a "yes" vote means "more yes than no" while a "no" vote means unequivocally "no."  It'll be interesting to see the results if these polls are up long enough to get a fair sampling.  

    Are they constructed so that people can only vote once, I hope?

    "It ain't right, Atticus," said Jem. "No, son, it ain't right." --Harper Lee, To Kill a Mockingbird

    by SottoVoce on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 01:05:18 PM PST

  •  Obama (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    NonnyO

    afraid of heights


    I think clowns wear makeup just to get my attention. Actually, I’m more of the big shoe type.

    by glb3 on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 01:06:30 PM PST

  •  Kind or Unkind (7+ / 0-)

    I'm guessing that history will be kind to President Obama in years to come. But whether kind or unkind, it will be a ripping read. Whether the focus is on mistakes and missed opportunities or beneficial and unprecedented accomplishments, there will be plenty of material to work with.

    Given the unique political context in which President Obama has had to operate since the right wing backlash to his election happened in 2010, I find that my most frequent reaction is to wonder how President Obama manages to do as much good as he does as often as he does.

    Solid yes in poll.

    "The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." John Kenneth Galbraith

    by LeftOfYou on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 01:07:14 PM PST

  •  Yes, for his steadfast stance on Iran diplomacy, (9+ / 0-)

    date certain withdraw from Afghanistan, about 5 million (to date) getting much needed Medicaid health insurance and my daughter staying on my health plan for 7 more years (if she wishes). And making Republicans expose themselves in the most unprepossessing ways.

  •  I'm a NO (6+ / 0-)

    Trans-Pacific Partnership (and TTIP, its Euro cousin), defense of the surveillance state, the indefinite extension of the war in Afghanistan, the drone war (and the weaselly language used to justify it or evade responsibility), expanded oil and gas production (and the celebration of such as a positive, as an accomplishment), an education policy that has built on the failed policies of Bush, record levels of deportation

    By all means, I think he's better than Romney. I don't regret casting a vote for him in the swing state in which I lived then. But I'm not pleased with how he's done.

    •  I don't fully agree with you (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      doroma, Eyesbright

      He could be more forceful about defending the environment, but let's not forget that he is dealing with Republicans who reject basic climate science and have repeatedly voted to gut the most basic environmental regulations. Free trade deals create jobs and lower costs, and Obama hasn't pushed for them that strongly in any case. As to deportations, Obama has supported legalizing illegal immigrants, but he cannot stop enforcing the law. It is Boehner's/Cantor's/Steve King's fault that immigration isn't resolved, not Obama's.

  •  i support him, but (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    flevitan, Eyesbright, glitterscale

    i HATE this secrecy and spying on us, and i wish he would be more inclined to prosecute Wall Street thieves, and Bush war criminals.  oh yes, have we rejoined the international criminal court?  What about Gitmo.

    too bad his name is sullied in my mind. i really wanted to believe.

    that all said, i sleep better at night knowing he is POTUS.

  •  not enough choices (0+ / 0-)

    no simplistic poll response for me.

    break it down to components of the job.

  •  How's come all the polls add up to only 98% n/t (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    virginislandsguy, ontheleftcoast
    •  The polls are skewed (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      BenderRodriguez, poco

      My polls go to 111%.

      There was only one joker in L.A. sensitive enough to wear that scent...and I had to find out who he was!

      by virginislandsguy on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 01:58:47 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Rounding (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Eyesbright

      A long time ago pollsters (most of them) learned that always rounding down was better then the alternatives. The classic example is getting 495 votes for and 505 votes against. The standard rounding rules would tell you to show 50% Yes and 51% No. With a total of 101% a fair number of people start thinking something "didn't add up" and start yammering about "the fix is in!", etc. But if you round them both down to 49% Yes and 50% No almost nobody complains and assumes "Oh, yeah, some rounding occurred". People are weird that way. Go over by one and "Conspiracy! End of the World! ARGLE! BARGLE!" be below by one (or more) and "It's just rounding".

      There are lies, damn lies, and statistics but they all pale in comparison to conservative talking points.

      by ontheleftcoast on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 03:57:49 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  needs Rux / Sox option for the RINO/DINOs /nt (0+ / 0-)

    Warning - some snark may be above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 "I’m not the strapping young Muslim socialist that I used to be" - Barack Obama 04/27/2013

    by annieli on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 01:41:54 PM PST

  •  4 stars out of 5 if he'd just rein in the NSA (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    doroma, flevitan

    Goddammit.

    "Think. It ain't illegal yet." - George Clinton | http://ideaddicted.blogspot.com

    by jbeach on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 01:52:04 PM PST

  •  Interesting poll results. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    virginislandsguy, fcvaguy, doroma

    "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

    by Lawrence on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 01:57:39 PM PST

  •  Yes! (3+ / 0-)

    That's the answer I chose. ...:-)

    I love Burt Lancaster!

    by secret38b on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 02:01:10 PM PST

  •  I voted "Undecided" (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Avilyn, reginahny, doroma, 4kedtongue

    Have always been a strong Obama supporter. And, I'm very pleased with some of his accomplishments. However, I'm beginning to feel some disappointment that hasn't been able to accomplish more. But, I still see him as a man of integrity.

    KOS: "Mocking partisans focusing on elections? Even less reason to be on Daily Kos."

    by fcvaguy on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 02:03:19 PM PST

    •  I can understand, but remind myself (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      fcvaguy, doroma, Eyesbright

      that he still has years ahead of him and is already pushing harder than in his first term IMO. Today, before his cabinet meeting he made it clear that he would use the "pen and the phone" to push his agenda forward. Now, he needs us behind him more than ever and I'm frankly fine with some Executive "ordering" after five years of unbridled, unreasonable, unprecendented, unprincipled opposition.

    •  I also went with "Undecided" (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      fcvaguy, flevitan, reginahny

      I am happy with some of the things he's managed to get done (repeal of DADT, stance on Iran); some others are better than where we were, but not as far as I would like (ACA vs Single Payer); some things I'm disappointed in (NSA, Drone Attacks, lack of Wall St prosecution/accountability); some things I realize he tried but was blocked by Republicans (closing Guantanamo).

      So it's kind of a mixed bag.  I like President Obama generally, and he's far better than any Republican president would be, but leadership wise?  I dunno.  As the President he's got the bully pulpit, and I don't think he uses it enough.  I think he tries too much to build consensus between both parties, and that he should instead be making the case for Democratic policies and drawing a sharper contrast between the two parties.

      Shop Kos Katalogue
      I’m a feminist because the message is still "don’t get raped" not "don’t rape"

      by Avilyn on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 02:15:05 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  agree (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Avilyn, reginahny

        maybe he needs to be a bad guy sometimes instead of trying so hard to be the good guy all the time.

        I was disappointed we didn't end up with something better than ACA. But, I was even more disappointed in how long its taken. The slow implementation (over the past 4 years) has only allowed the GOP to continue the battle against it. It should have been implemented much quicker.

        In all honesty, I haven't followed the NSA thread much. I'm always overseas and have always assumed that the Government is tracking my phone. It doesn't bother me because I don't do anything on my phone that I would be afraid to see on a billboard. And, I think companies like Google track and spy on me a lot more than the Government could ever do.

        Drones? I'm not feeling that one either for a multitude of reasons. To me, the only difference between a drone and an F-16 is where the person at the joystick is at; behind a desk somewhere or in the cockpit. To me, the issue isn't "drones". Its war in general.

        Sometimes, I wish Obama had some Christie in him. He has the capacity and means to really punish some intransigent Republicans (legally) and he should have done so when appropriate. But, he's a very nice guy, and thats also a problem, he's a very nice guy.

        KOS: "Mocking partisans focusing on elections? Even less reason to be on Daily Kos."

        by fcvaguy on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 02:26:12 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  I like the poll (8+ / 0-)

    Forces you to go "straight poker ( card game ) " , no dilly dally

    I voted NO , but I knew I would not agree with how he governs going into 2012 when I voted for him , so I am not really disappointed or shocked

    If he would hammer the GOP relentlessly from here on out he would get a yes vote from me , light a freakin fire under every dem till Nov. , and make the GOP pull their hair out , maybe we can recruit VP Biden to do that?  

    Beer Drinkers & Hell Raisers

    by Patango on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 02:10:04 PM PST

  •  Need a fourth choice (0+ / 0-)

    "Mixed bag".

    I strongly approve on some things, strongly disapprove on others.

    Note how different that is from "undecided".  I am quite decided.  He's a mixed bag.

    I've lost my faith in nihilism

    by grumpynerd on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 02:17:44 PM PST

  •  Inadvertent comedy (0+ / 0-)

    "No" votes currently stand at 666.

    :)

    I am not religious, and did NOT say I enjoyed sects.

    by trumpeter on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 02:35:00 PM PST

  •  Nope. (7+ / 0-)

    Too much 1%, not enough 99%.

    Too much spying, not enough Constitution.

    I wouldn't worry about all of those other "no" votes in the poll, though. Probably just wingnuts messing with it.

    Besides, even though they're currently unavailable to vote, victims of drone strikes would surely vote "yes," which would help offset all of us pessimists.

    See? I can still maintain a positive outlook on things. They always work out, so long as you pretend the problems don't exist.




    Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ J. Garcia

    by DeadHead on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 02:59:38 PM PST

    •  Usual pearl clutching from you (6+ / 7-)

      Yes, I would of course expect to find you in this diary.

      Too much dialykos policing, not enough explaining why this is your full time job.

      NSA? Check.
      Drone Strikes? Check.

      That gives me a clue to your motivation. Yes, that's what people care about. Not.

      Women losing access to reproductive rights? Boring. NSA!
      Labor Issues? Boring. Drones!
      Poverty, hunger, minimum wage? Boring. NSA!
      Climate change, anti-science? Boring. Drones! NSA! Drones! NSA!
      Voting Rights rolled back? Voters disenfranchised? NSA! Drones!

      You're the BENGHAZZZIIIIII!!!!!!11!! of the left.

      Face it.

      •  Now this is a comment that just cries out to (7+ / 0-)

        be rescued from the DeadHead crew.  Good grief.

        I don't agree with all of this comment by reginahny.  But it's damn sure not an HRable comment.

        DeadHead is going to get banned sooner or later.  I've seen this pattern many times over more than 10 years.  And when a guy like that gets banned, it typically takes down several of his minions.

        I'll stop there, for now . . .

        •  After all, if anyone has experience with getting (10+ / 0-)

          banned from this site...

          "I read New republic and Nation/I've learned to take every view.." P. Ochs

          by JesseCW on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 05:03:12 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  you would know (8+ / 0-)

          Just saying.  

          I honestly don't know why you have fallen for this meme.  It started with trolls, then Christin repeated it, now a couple more.  I remember when you were "othered".    I would have thought you would be more aware of what's going on.  

          "It rubs the lotion on its skin" is not effective coalition building.

          by Nada Lemming on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 05:06:01 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  What's going on? (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            poligirl

            Please inform me.  I'm not quite as super sharp as I used to be, but I'm still in the game, and I read DKos every day.

            So you're saying I'm allied with "trolls" and also "Christin."  What a bunch of horse shit.

            What exactly are you saying?

            You're not exactly a master of condescension.

            •  Im saying (8+ / 0-)

              that some banned trolls started the meme that DH is a "bully" sans evidence.  Some.troll got banned, then accused DH and others of a witch hunt at the help desk.  Along came.Christin and others who wanted said troll unbanned, agreeing with banned.troll.  Since then, gogo, raptavio and now MBNYC have joined the DH Is A Bully bandwagon.  You of all people don't seem to belong in that group.  Unless.you have a personal grudge.  Nobody else on that list would I even believe if they told me the.correct time without checking my own sources
               

              "It rubs the lotion on its skin" is not effective coalition building.

              by Nada Lemming on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 06:35:50 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  I don't think I have a personal grudge against (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                emelyn, reginahny

                DH.  But I tend to be an old Scottish grudgeholder and I'm losing my memory as I get older.  So yeah, maybe I do have a bit of a grudge about some of his lame efforts to be insulting.

                But that's really not it.  A few non-troll and highly respected friends of mine have made a point to show me what DH has been doing.  And subsequently I've been watching.

                So I stand on what I said:  I think he is currently the most disruptive and divisive poster on this site.  Time will tell, but I've seen this pattern quite a few times.

                •  when cherry picked any one of us can be made to (10+ / 0-)

                  look like a troll, including you and i Timaeus. unless one is around for most of DH's convo's here, one is viewing what is being given and most likely, given how it was framed by the folks giving that info to you, those are folks who want to recruit you to the "DH is a troll" bandwagon.

                  he's been targeted and you've been around long enough to know how the game is played when that happens.

                  "Hope has two beautiful daughters. Their names are anger and courage; anger at the way things are, and courage to see that they do not remain the way they are." ~St Augustine "When it is dark enough, you can see the stars." ~Charles Beard

                  by poligirl on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 07:20:42 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                •  I would take that (7+ / 0-)

                  (someone you respect showed you DH) - as evidence of an "othering".  I am not on his crew.  I just started noticing the othering, which I noticed being done to you and defended you for the same reasons.  People on the rox side want him gone, probably because he doesn't back down.  Neither do you nor do I.  Folks like that shouldn't get run out of here.  They have a use even as your opponent. They test and sharpen your arguments.  I miss blueness and some others for that reason.  

                  "It rubs the lotion on its skin" is not effective coalition building.

                  by Nada Lemming on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 07:26:55 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                •  I remember when you were targeted. (8+ / 0-)

                  I guess I was one of your minions then.

                  Interesting to see you working with a team to get Deadhead banned.  I'll keep that in mind.

                •  Your problem with me started... (4+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  poligirl, triv33, TheMomCat, ek hornbeck

                  When I questioned the intensity of your objection to one of Ray Pensador's diaries.

                  I also questioned you, politely, wrt to another comment in a different diary shortly thereafter.

                  Prior to that, I actually rec'd a couple of your diaries, and had even  wished you goodwill in one of them.

                  After I started disagreeing with you, however, at some point you were advised by others privately to ignore me, as you indicated in a comment to me awhile back.

                  You haven't been able to do that, apparently.

                  As for me, for the most part nowadays, I reply to you when you cast aspersions on me, and when you join others when they are doing the same.




                  Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ J. Garcia

                  by DeadHead on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 08:05:29 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  That's not accurate, but I'm not going to (4+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    poligirl, DeadHead, ord avg guy, reginahny

                    dispute the details.  

                    I do wish you'd tone down the accusations that I'm acting as part of some conspiratorial group.  That's just nuts.  

                    I'm not a member of any group. I'm just me.

                    •  I'd be happy to. (3+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      TheMomCat, poligirl, ek hornbeck

                      You'll have to forgive me for getting that impression.

                      It's difficult for me not to draw that conclusion, given some of your appearances in recent threads I've been involved in.

                      It'd be one thing if you had found them via the hiddens, which may very well have been the case and is not an uncommon practice for many people here, but you've actively commented in support of those I'm arguing with, bolstering their side of the dispute while completely ignoring the prior context of the thread as it happened prior to your arrival, as well as the prior history between the myself and the others with whom I was engaging.

                      One time would be easier for me to write-off as coincidence. Three, perhaps four times, not so much.




                      Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ J. Garcia

                      by DeadHead on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 10:02:26 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

            •  I acknowledge coming in very late, (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              emelyn, reginahny, poco, Timaeus

              but I see some of my words and accusations being used by others as examples of how DH is the victim so I'm coming here to give context.

              If you really care about whether DeadHead is a victim of a small conspiracy of people who object to his political beliefs and are trying to ban him Or DeadHead is a trollish asshole who appears to target users for harassment (bully), try this:

              Go through DH's comment history, so there's no "cherry picking". Go back six weeks, eight weeks, more. Check every comment. Read every adversarial exchange in context, ignoring anything where you or I are involved because we are both biased (don't worry, there's plenty left). As you read  through those exchanges take note of...

              Who initiated the exchange?

              Did DH respond to the content of the comment or the diary, or was the response more directed to the commenter?

              How many times do you see words like: "stalking", "following", "harassing", "badgering", "baiting", "trolling" directed at DH. Make a mental note and see if DH initiates contact with that user even after being asked not to. How often does that happen?

              Keep a list of the user names that DH pie fights with. Is it a small group, or is it many names, older and newer, very active to occasional?

              Check how many times DH uses insults and ad homs. Take a look at who is reccing those. Compare that with the person DH is fighting with - ad homs, insults, recs. Who starts it? Who uses more? Whose get more recs?

              If any HRs are dropped who gets them, DH or his adversary? If DH is HRed, does the same comment get uprated? By who? If the adversary gets HRed is that comment uprated? By who? Who is doing the HRing in both cases? If you add up the numbers does DH get more HRs (like you would expect a target by a conspiracy for banning to do) or do his adversaries get more HRs?

              Then come back here and read the responses to you from the DH defenders. Do most of these names look familiar with regard to DH's pie fights? Does DH seem like a victim? A target of a conspiracy? Othered? A reformed asshole who is still being punished for past transgressions? Or do his actions seem like that of a bully? An instigator? A troll?

              I've already done this, so I know the answer. I've been as public as I can be about my conclusions. You've also been public on your assessment of DH, presumably without the comment trend analysis, and we are in agreement. You and I haven't agreed on very much in the past, yet here we agree.

              I'm being accused of wanting to get DeadHead banned. My goal is to get him to stop BAD, bullying and disrupting. If his enablers and upraters were honest they would be trying to do the same thing as well.

              If Liberals hated America, we'd vote Republican.

              by ord avg guy on Wed Jan 15, 2014 at 08:36:14 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  i would advise everyone to do this. definitely go (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                ek hornbeck, triv33, TheMomCat

                check out the comment history - the entirety of the past several months at this point.

                i would also suggest you go and look at org avg guy's history as well, especially his history and comments in relation to DeadHead.

                for the record, ord avg guy blamed DeadHead for other people's HRable comments just the other day. seems that DeadHead is responsible for not only DeadHead's behavior, but is also responsible for other people's bad behavior. go figure. it's the "you made me do it" excuse that 5 year olds tend to use.

                just sayin'.

                "Hope has two beautiful daughters. Their names are anger and courage; anger at the way things are, and courage to see that they do not remain the way they are." ~St Augustine "When it is dark enough, you can see the stars." ~Charles Beard

                by poligirl on Wed Jan 15, 2014 at 11:04:18 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  I'm sorry poligirl, (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  reginahny

                  but you have a recent history of misrepresenting what I say (a lie which, of course, poor poor "victim" DeadHead uprated):

                  DeadHead wasn't in the hiddens here at all. (3+ / 0-)
                  so you're lying. that does not surprise me in the least. ~poligirl's false accusation [emphasis added]
                  So I don't think you have any credibility to be telling anyone what I said somewhere else. You lied about me once and you are misrepresenting what I said here again. The fact that DeadHead needs dishonest players to defend him should be another data point for all to consider. BTW - You should be careful about making accusations without links because DeadHead seems to think that is the same as being dishonest(except, of course, when DeadHead does it).

                  just sayin'.

                  In fact, add that to the list of things to note when checking DH's comment history. How often does he ask for links to facts he doesn't want to acknowledge. Then check out his reaction when he gets the links he demands and how he reacts when he doesn't.

                  But by all means poligirl, check out the whole history between me and DeadHead (well, not so much you, but an honest person who wants honest insight). Here's a hint, it starts before he claims it does. And again, when you're looking at that history, pay close attention to who initiates contact with who. Who gets HRed and who gets recced up. Who shows up to act as blog nannies when I don't back down from DeadHead's lies and smears. It's a real fucking eye opener for anyone listening to the "DeadHead is being othered and targeted by a conspiracy!" crowd.

                  It's all right there for the viewing.

                  If Liberals hated America, we'd vote Republican.

                  by ord avg guy on Wed Jan 15, 2014 at 12:38:45 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Really? (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    TheMomCat, poligirl

                    I'd love to hear it.

                    Do tell.

                    With links of course since you're making the accusation.

                    •  Good gawd... (0+ / 1-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Hidden by:
                      4kedtongue

                      The integrity challenged are coming out of the woodwork all of a sudden. Somewhere (maybe FB, lol) you can almost the chanting rise up...

                      "Must defend the DeadHead" "Must deflect" "Must defend the DeadHead" "Must deflect" "Must defend the DeadHead" "Must deflect" "Must defend the DeadHead" "Must deflect" "Must defend the DeadHead" "Must deflect" ...

                      Two down. Does that mean 20 more to go?

                      /snark

                      If Liberals hated America, we'd vote Republican.

                      by ord avg guy on Wed Jan 15, 2014 at 01:36:29 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  He's just a guy. (3+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        TheMomCat, poligirl, 4kedtongue

                        I defend him because I agree with him (mostly).

                        Still no links I notice.  Lazy slacker?  Or just too ignorant?

                        •  No, just not (2+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          AnnetteK, poco

                          interested.

                          Bored now, bye.

                          [Here's the part where you ask a question and then answer it - giggling with delight knowing you slayed another enemy]

                          If Liberals hated America, we'd vote Republican.

                          by ord avg guy on Wed Jan 15, 2014 at 04:37:54 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Still picking at DfQ? (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            TheMomCat, 4kedtongue, poligirl

                            He outed people.

                            On my site.

                            Not acceptable.

                            I didn't hound him to death.

                          •  tell yourself whatever you need to, Ek. (0+ / 0-)

                            We both know how you talked about him at the time.

                            Internet never forgets.

                            Still bored.

                            If Liberals hated America, we'd vote Republican.

                            by ord avg guy on Wed Jan 15, 2014 at 05:14:17 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  And how was that? (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            TheMomCat, 4kedtongue, poligirl

                            Going to trot out the same old rank tripe I've already disposed of?

                            And I'll not pretend I liked him, but clearly defined rules equally enforced.

                            I did cornsyrupawareness too at about the same time for trying to edit history.

                            The difference between csa2 and DfQ2 is that DfQ came back and did it again.

                            Now, your links to examples of me hounding him here.

                            Oh, right.  I wasn't a part of that lynch mob.

                          •  I gotta admit... (0+ / 0-)

                            you moved me from bored to entertained.

                            I'd tell you to stop digging and something about "doth protest...", but in your head you'd see that as a challenge or something.

                            I'm not going to trot out anything. I have no interest in this discussion that you thought would be clever to bring up in this thread.

                            The fact that a certain "non-buddy" of yours is in this thread and hasn't popped up to say your comments should be hidden and you should be bannned for bringing up this topic only proves my assessment of his motives100% correct . For that I thank you.

                            I'm not responsible for whatever accusation you inferred from my comment. I didn't say anything about you "hounding" anyone, did I? Oh, right. I didn't.

                            I don't know why you want to bring this up and discuss it with me. That was a long time ago. I didn't like you then I don't like you now. I don't like you on this site and I never liked you on any other site I've seen you on. You have an almost sadistically mean side that comes out with the cover of internet anonymity. It's cowardly and pathetic and it disgusts me. Nothing you say about DfQ or anything here is going to change that. Sorry.

                            This insipid game that you friends of DeadHead keep playing where my comments are just used as fodder for your lies and straw men is getting tedious doesn't make the case for DeadHead that you all think it makes.

                            If your point in bringing up the topic that should never be brought up was to get me to reply after I said "bye", you win. I'm totally pwned, dude.

                            I'm bored again so I'm going to go enjoy some time with real people.

                            Goodnite.

                            If Liberals hated America, we'd vote Republican.

                            by ord avg guy on Wed Jan 15, 2014 at 06:48:31 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Have you tried looking in a mirror? (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            4kedtongue, poligirl, TheMomCat

                            Recently?

                            I have nothing to defend.  I'm a funny guy.

                            Let me understand this cause, ya know maybe it's me, I'm a little fucked up maybe, but I'm funny how, I mean funny like I'm a clown, I amuse you? I make you laugh, I'm here to fucking amuse you? What do you mean funny, funny how? How am I funny? You said I'm funny. How the fuck am I funny, what the fuck is so funny about me? Tell me, tell me what's funny!

                            I didn't like you then I don't like you now. I don't like you on this site and I never liked you on any other site I've seen you on. You have an almost sadistically mean side that comes out with the cover of internet anonymity. It's cowardly and pathetic and it disgusts me.
                            The fact that a certain "non-buddy" of yours is in this thread and hasn't popped up to say your comments should be hidden and you should be bannned for bringing up this topic only proves my assessment of his motives100% correct . For that I thank you.
                            So you're calling me 'hide on sight' and for my banishment.

                            Because you don't like me.

                            Good luck with that.

                          •  Ignore him... (4+ / 0-)

                            ...he's obsessed and he's conjured the worst of what he knows in order to smear someone who bested him in a thread a year ago.  And he doesn't CARE if he actually hurts those who GAVE A FUCK about what happened in that previous round of meta.  He has a CAUSE, ek.  He'll never back down.  FUCK HIM!  Walk away -- never acknowledge him again.  He isn't worth it.

                            all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

                            by 4kedtongue on Wed Jan 15, 2014 at 10:20:48 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Yawn... (0+ / 0-)
                            I have nothing to defend.
                            Begs the question why you get so defensive. But I really don't fucking care, Ek.

                            I enjoyed the rest of your comment because your adolescent attempt to mock me really mocked DeadHead, and you did it.

                            Thanks buddy.

                            If Liberals hated America, we'd vote Republican.

                            by ord avg guy on Thu Jan 16, 2014 at 05:20:55 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  "Talked about him"? (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            poligirl, ek hornbeck

                            Mr. Fucking Subtle Distinctions.

                            Mr. Check Out the Threads?

                            Blow it out your ass.

                            Again, with help from those who ACTUALLY want to revise history, you conveniently yawn when it was YOU who opened this door.  

                            I FUCKING TOLD YOU!  

                            Open that door, fall victim to it.

                            ENJOY!

                            all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

                            by 4kedtongue on Wed Jan 15, 2014 at 10:11:21 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  What the fuck are you ranting at me about? (0+ / 0-)

                            Your hypocritical bullshit in the last thread just got proven to be what I said it was. Sorry, you must be embarrassed.

                            If you want to be angry at anyone, be angry at Ek for bringing it into this thread. Or be mad at yourself for pretending I was saying something I clearly wasn't and pretending you cared about something you clearly don't.

                            Your insincerity and bad faith acting is not my fucking fault.

                            So take your dissembling bullshit, your thinly veiled threat, your chickenshit hit and run HR, and stay the fuck away from me, again.

                            You and the rest of your buddies keep popping up to push me with your distortions and lies and smears and then cry when I push back. Leave me alone and you won't keep having that problem. I sure as shit have nothing to say to this little pack of hypocritical bully enablers, including you.

                            Own your shit!

                            If Liberals hated America, we'd vote Republican.

                            by ord avg guy on Thu Jan 16, 2014 at 05:13:16 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  C'mon... (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            TheMomCat, poligirl

                            I link to it, even above.

                            Now you're just a garden variety no source pulling it out of your nether regions ordinary average liar.

                          •  ROFL (0+ / 0-)

                            Look 4ked, he brought it up again. With a link this time so all the ill effects from the last thread are now here in this one.

                            Get him. HAHAHAHAHA

                            Thanks Ek!!!!

                            You keep proving me right. Please proceed....

                            If Liberals hated America, we'd vote Republican.

                            by ord avg guy on Thu Jan 16, 2014 at 04:21:48 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  What it proves... (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            TheMomCat, poligirl, ord avg guy

                            is that you introduced the subject.

                            I'm not ashamed of my behavior at all.

                            Want me to repeat myself?  Dave was hounded to death by the incessant bullying by people from this site, behavior you apparently endorse with glee, while I on the other hand regret it and fact that Dave's response to it violated our rules on my site and forced me to ban him twice because we actually have rules that are not selectively enforced.

                            You're not just a troll, you're a ghoul.

                          •  There you go, EK. You're my boy. (0+ / 0-)

                            You really are the gift that keeps on giving. Thank you. Have a rec for doing exactly what was expected of you.

                            Are you getting all this, 4ked? If you can't remember why this comment above should mean something and be upsetting for you (lies can be hard to keep up with, I hear) all you have to do is go up to the link your non-buddy Ek provided dragging this shit from the other thread into this one. Then you can read what you wrote and you'll recall your sincere feelings of outrage. It's not too late to salvage some semblance of your credibility, 4ked (i'm just kidding. Your credibility is a ship that has long since sailed).

                            But Ek, don't sell yourself short, buddy. You proved, and are proving, so very much more than I introduced the subject in the other thread. Thanks for proving something I never disputed. Is there anything else that isn't in dispute you want to prove? For your next trick you can prove that we are on DailyKos. Or maybe you could prove water is wet. Whatever is easiest for you. Your call.

                            You banned the "subject" twice? He must have been a really bad actor on DD to get that treatment, yes?

                            Oh, and just a little reminder (cause I know how important this is to you). You forgot to link to your proof that your bullshit accusations about me are true, and not just some crap you invented to smear me. I know you're not lazy or ignorant. And certainly not a liar, heavens no. So yeah, just any link proving I 'endorse bullying with glee', that I am a "troll" and that I am a "ghoul". Those are the names you called me right? Oh, I almost forgot, and "liar" and where I was "calling me[you] 'hide on sight' and for my[your] banishment" from the earlier comment. I know you put a blockquote next to that last bullshit accusation, but the quote clearly doesn't support your claim. I assume you just made a simple editing mistake because I know you're honest and have better than a 3rd grade reading level. So yeah, those links would be super.

                            I know you're a man who stands by your principles, like when you were banning someone for breaking the rules, so I'd hate to see you drop the ball here.

                            As much as I appreciate you giving me two golden comments that provide so much proof, more than you seem to understand, of what you are and what your non-buddy 4ked is, but I still want more. Come on man, three in a row. You can do it. I know you've got that turkey in you. Just spew it out. Don't be afraid to give me some of that old school, internet tough guy ek hornbeck, like you were especially good at on FSZ. I'm can take it and I'm feeling nostalgic. Put one more smile on my face.

                            Please proceed...

                            If Liberals hated America, we'd vote Republican.

                            by ord avg guy on Thu Jan 16, 2014 at 10:39:02 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Proof of what exactly? (0+ / 0-)

                            That I'm entirely consistent?  That my memory is not faulty?

                            I've been singing this song now for twenty five minutes.  I could sing it for another twenty five minutes.  I'm not proud... or tired.

                            Dave was a bad actor on DocuDharma.  He broke the rules (what few we have) repeatedly.  He outed people and I personally banned him twice because he came back as a sock puppet and did it again.

                            These are facts I don't dispute.

                            I revel in them.

                            You see, I accept ownership of my actions and am not afraid to talk about it, even with a ghoul like you so that normal people can understand that I'll play fair with them.  What should I have done as an Administrator exactly?  DocuDharma is not Political Flesh Feast (peeder's failed experiment in "moderation") or the Free Speech Zone (Jack's Smirking Revenge's reincarnation, though he still posts with us on occasion extremely thoughtful pieces on the Occupy Movement with which he is deeply involved).

                            Is my reputation important to me?  Well, sure.  Since I publish pseudonymously and don't pretend to any special expertise, my 9 year record is all I have.

                            My quotes entirely support my claims.  4ked is somebody I hardy know and have had no off site interactions with until now when they've PMed me.  

                            I'd tell you all about it except it's private.

                            So what are you accusing me of?  Being too honest?  Too truthful?  Like Beck's locker I have no secrets.  I'm not even Canadian though I do know the national anthem-

                            Ô Canada!
                            Terre de nos aïeux,
                            Ton front est ceint de fleurons glorieux!
                            Car ton bras sait porter l'épée,
                            Il sait porter la croix!
                            Ton histoire est une épopée
                            Des plus brillants exploits.
                            Et ta valeur, de foi trempée,
                            Protégera nos foyers et nos droits.
                            Protégera nos foyers et nos droits.
                          •  Hmmm... (0+ / 0-)

                            Well, I think we should clear up the several accusations you made about me first. Let me remind you what they are (again):

                            So yeah, just any link proving I 'endorse bullying with glee', that I am a "troll" and that I am a "ghoul". Those are the names you called me right? Oh, I almost forgot, and "liar" and where I was "calling me[you] 'hide on sight' and for my[your] banishment" from the earlier comment.
                            To be honest, I'm not really concerned with the childish name calling. But these two gems; 'I endorse bullying' and 'I called 'hide on sight' and called for your banishment'.

                            See, we both know that there is not a shred of truth to either of those accusations. I think you made them knowing they aren't true. I think someone who does that is dishonest, a liar. ng>That is the accusation I am making about you.

                            I have to admit, Ek... I'm usually pretty good at this, but I can't tell if you are just 'playing dumb' about what this whole exchange is about since the moment you started it in the other thread, or if you're not playing.

                            If Liberals hated America, we'd vote Republican.

                            by ord avg guy on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 06:53:34 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  What _is_ this about? (0+ / 0-)

                            Of course I'm just playing with you.

                            To deny what you have said and I have quoted and linked is a mere distraction.

                            BTW you missed a quote around 'banishment.'

                            You need an argument clinic.

                            Ding!

                          •  Meh. (0+ / 0-)

                            Same as it ever was since this exchange started.

                            You lie about me. I push back and call you out on your dishonest bullshit. You respond with more dishonesty. Wash - rinse - repeat.

                            Bored again.

                            (Again, thanks for providing all that "proof")

                            Remember this:
                            It still fits you like a glove.

                            If Liberals hated America, we'd vote Republican.

                            by ord avg guy on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 10:31:00 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                    •  Not me... (5+ / 0-)

                      ...here's a list (by no means comprehensive) of things I would rather do than search the comment history of any DKos user -- and engage in the utterly fruitless exercise of Confirmation Bias:

                      Clean my cat's litter box
                      Eat glass
                      Clean your cat's litter box
                      Fight with my boyfriend
                      Have 'make-up' sex with my boyfriend
                      Have sex with someone else's boyfriend
                      Take a walk in the middle of I-80 during rush hour
                      Masturbate
                      Learn to speak Cantonese
                      Shove 12' knitting needles into my eyes
                      Actually read War and Peace in one sitting
                      Play Russian Roulette with more than one bullet in the chamber
                      Clean bed pans at a Nursing Home

                      Get the picture?

                      all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

                      by 4kedtongue on Wed Jan 15, 2014 at 01:44:36 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

            •  Yes, but I am. (0+ / 0-)

              "a master of condescension."

              Do you have no life outside this place?

              So sad.

              •  That comment says so much (4+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                reginahny, poco, ord avg guy, Timaeus

                more about you than it does about anyone else.

                So very sad.

                We should attack now when they'd least expect it #WarOnChristmas

                by AnnetteK on Wed Jan 15, 2014 at 11:59:16 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Really? (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  TheMomCat
                  From the moment Hornbeck arrives in Hillsboro, his air of superiority is obvious. He "sneers politely at everything," and his clothes are "those of a sophisticated city-dweller." He speaks haughtily, as though he is reciting poetry; in fact, Lawrence and Lee use verse for Hornbeck's lines. Hornbeck is a chorus character. His wisecracks are comments on the action in the play, as well as a representation of progressive ideas and beliefs held by people from the North. He mocks the people of Hillsboro for their fundamentalist beliefs and their narrow-minded views about evolution. He acknowledges that "a few ignorance bushes" exist in Hillsboro, but no "tree of knowledge." He sees a monkey and calls it "Grandpa" and buys a hot dog instead of a Bible because he chooses to feed his stomach rather than his soul.

                  Hornbeck ridicules Brady for his bigotry and backwardness. Because Brady was a politician and ran for the presidency of the United States three times before becoming a staunch defender of fundamentalism, Hornbeck calls him "a shouter," "an also-ran," "a might-have-been, an almost-was." He claims that Brady came to Hillsboro to find a stump to shout from, not to be the "champion of ordinary people." Hornbeck thinks Brady is a fraud and continues to denounce him even after Brady dies. Hornbeck also enjoys informing the citizens of Hillsboro that the agnostic, Henry Drummond, " . . . the most agile mind of the Twentieth Century," will be defending Cates.  In contrast to his feelings towards Brady and the people of Hillsboro, Hornbeck, who supports evolutionary theory, is supportive of Cates and his courage to stand up for his beliefs. Feeling smug, Hornbeck also pays Cates' bond of $500 at the conclusion of the trial.

                  Hornbeck's character is static. He is as opinionated and iconoclastic, attacking institutions and firmly held beliefs, and he does not change throughout the course of the play. His character is also shallow and one-dimensional. Because he is first and foremost a newspaper columnist, he is talkative and always in everyone else's business, asking questions and speaking his mind.

                  You're the stranger, ain'tcha?  Are you looking for a nice, clean place to stay?

                  Madam, I had a nice clean place to stay... and I left it, to come here.

                  Hello devil.  Welcome to Hell.

        •  Yes. (5+ / 0-)

          You've seen it play out first-hand, like, three times, haven't you, Timaeus?

          Thanks for confirming your grudge, by the way.

          Keep calling for my banning, dude. You're only making yourself look bad, not me.




          Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ J. Garcia

          by DeadHead on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 05:08:05 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  No. I think you're the number 1 most disruptive (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            yojimbo, ord avg guy, emelyn, reginahny

            and divisive poster on the site today. I will continue to comment when I see you doing the worst. I don't comment on most of it.

            Three times?  No, as I've written many times, over more than 10 years I've been banned twice, both wrongly, and twice reinstated.

            I'm grateful to Markos for the reinstatements. But I don't need to kowtow to a bad member like you.

            •  Then why didn't you? (7+ / 0-)

              I see no reply from you to my original comment above, which was a top-level comment.

              Just support of a shit-talking comment about me, with your added swipe about my banning.

              And now this comment of yours, with no evidence to back up your sweeping claims about this supposed "divisive and disruptive" behavior of mine. Do I go into your diaries? Do I go into diaries that are supportive of the president and start trouble?

              NO. I do NOT.

              You're just another of a small group of people who've made me their personal smear project, apparently.

              I don't consider your judgement as to what constitutes a "bad member" to be valid, in light of your less-than-stellar track record, a record to which I haven't even remotely come close.

              Have a nice evening.




              Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ J. Garcia

              by DeadHead on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 05:42:01 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  And I note, Timaeus... (6+ / 0-)

                Your lack of outrage about other comments that weren't "yes" votes.

                Mine was the only "divisive" one, apparently.




                Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ J. Garcia

                by DeadHead on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 05:45:52 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Without joining one team or the other in this pie- (8+ / 0-)

                  fight, I'll add a couple of observations.

                  On Timaeus: I don't know about one of his bannings (unless, perhaps, both his bannings were over The Nephew). But on the other one, he suffered the same fate as you are here - he upset a lot of people with what he said, and they HRed him until he was six feet under. Well, and some of them complained to admins.

                  But in that case, regarding The Nephew, he was not only right, he also saw through him about two months before almost anyone else (pico was similarly prescient). And he called The Nephew on his bullshit, repeatedly, and he suffered the torches and pitchforks that most Cassandras are met with. It doesn't make Timaeus more infallible than the Pope - but he was certainly banned once on utterly spurious grounds.

                  On you, DeadHead. My own opinion is that you serve a useful function here, as a necessary gadfly; and you also get pushy, and step on a lot of toes. You have gotten a lot better, I think, in the last year. You're more careful to rate comments by the rules than a couple of dozen pie-fighters. But you're still fending off a lot of people whose toes you stepped on when you were more of a bully.

                  I'm not sure how you could rehabilitate your reputation here, or whether you worry much about it. Writing some good diaries, I guess, and trying not to lay into people who make small forgivable errors - save your ire for those who are clearly being dicks. Especially the writing diaries. You get a bad reputation everywhere, when most people only remember you from pie-fights.

                  I'm not meaning to preach, just to ponder out loud.

                  "Every man has a right to utter what he thinks truth" Samuel Johnson

                  by Brecht on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 07:17:58 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Nice. There's much to be said for content (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Timaeus, Brecht, poligirl

                    and history, over white noise.
                    Timaeus is probably owed a drink to toast his/her justified prescience, as you say, about that TN case.
                    As for other things, pity that web anonymity reifies metaphors such as flies packing on to s***, or other dead things.

                    Zappa on Crossfire: / "Love it when you froth like that." / "Yes, Mister Zappa."

                    by yojimbo on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 08:47:10 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  The "necessary gadfly" metaphor is 2400 years old (6+ / 0-)

                      Socrates was accused of corrupting the youth of Athens with his unorthodox opinions; he claimed that Athens was a slumbering giant, and he was the gadfly needed to awaken the city.

                      It would be more balanced if Team Rox had an equally assiduous gadfly. Raptavio does pretty well: less ubiquitous, but readier to call out bullshit from his own team. I have many more thoughts on our pie-fights, but I don't see what possible good it could do to express them.

                      Except for missing my Socrates shout-out, I agree with your comment, yojimbo.

                      "Every man has a right to utter what he thinks truth" Samuel Johnson

                      by Brecht on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 09:10:23 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Thought it was latent/implied. (3+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Brecht, poligirl, Timaeus

                        And I thought Athens was a "simple-minded donkey"... but, I think the last time I really read Plato & Friends* was when GHWB occupied the Oval Office, so I might be mistaken.  cheerio

                        *wouldn't this be much better morning TV than that with which we're inflicted?

                        Zappa on Crossfire: / "Love it when you froth like that." / "Yes, Mister Zappa."

                        by yojimbo on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 09:24:32 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  "Afflicted." oops. (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          Brecht

                          Not to be confused with Ben Affleck as Batman... the proof is in the padding, as they say.
                          Anyway, cheers & good night.

                          Zappa on Crossfire: / "Love it when you froth like that." / "Yes, Mister Zappa."

                          by yojimbo on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 09:28:46 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                        •  Twenty years ago was exactly the last time I read (4+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          DeadHead, yojimbo, poligirl, Timaeus

                          any Plato, when I wrote a thesis comparing his and Freud's models of the psyche (Reason/Spirit/Appetite = Ego/Superego/Id; Justice/dike/uprightness = Sanity/balance, etc.). Also, Plato predicted TV, with his metaphor of people watching puppets in a cave, and mistaking that for Reality.

                          Sorry for missing your implication.

                          We face the same quandary that Socrates faced, and the Sufis after him: How the hell do you get human beings to wake up, and choose to think through the tangles of corrupt, dumbed-down society? Well, at least we're talking about Plato on Daily Kos, instead of watching Fox News and cheering along. There's always a sliver of hope.

                          "Every man has a right to utter what he thinks truth" Samuel Johnson

                          by Brecht on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 09:43:18 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                  •  A lengthy reply... (4+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Brecht, 4kedtongue, PhilJD, poligirl

                    I largely, but not completely, agree with you about me. Though I certainly didn't in one particular thread awhile back. ;-)

                    I do not contest any charges of my being an asshole sometimes. Some of the other charges, like being the most damaging person on DailyKos (implied by others, not you), I DO take issue with.

                    I get very strong words associated with me, like "stalking" and "abusive," yet when I ask for those making these particular claims in comment threads to support their assertions, it never seems to happen. I get blown-off with answers like "why should I bother? It's all in your comment history."

                    Yet these little meta kerfuffles flare up, and I find myself being put in the position of having to defend myself against these claims, which have lately been popping-up tangentially to a relatively mild comment I make to someone else.

                    I've even gotten blamed for others not originally involved in the thread saying things to me that caused them to get HR'd.

                    In the last few months, I've been equated with a tick, accused of being on cocaine because I post late at night, called a "lying CTer," a "lying shitbag," a "coward," a "functional teabagger," a "Naderite," and now, the "Benghazi of the left," or whatever the hell it was in the comment above, to name a few.

                    I've had people call for my banning, show up in dead threads to talk shit about me to others in that same dead thread, all the while being myself accused of being a dead thread denizen. Heck, I've even had my username updated to "DeadThread" for me.

                    And had the supposed "mistreatment" of duhban hung exclusively around my neck, as if I was the only one pointing out his behavior and questionable history.

                    I'm not trying to whine about it, just listing some of my experiences, all in one comment, because your comment inspired it and I'm certainly not going to write a diary about it, but having it on record, so to speak, is something I've been wanting to do.

                    What caused all of this?

                    Well, apparently people don't like sarcasm when used to point out the absurdity of their own comments. They also feel it's okay to disrupt and otherwise troll diaries they don't like, but when they're called on it, it's the fault of the person pointing it out, not theirs.

                    Disruptive behavior is okay if they agree with it, but persistent calling it out is somehow "bullying" and "harassing" or something.

                    I do not deny I've made unnecessary comments and ones that have exaggerated perhaps unfairly. Have I name-called? Yes, a few times, but usually after the first shot has been fired in some way or another. Have I told people to go fuck themselves? Yes. Happily and without remorse in those instances.

                    For the most part, I stick to diaries I'm already in, and don't go into diaries I dislike to start trouble.

                    As for my "reputation," well, I'm not interested in repairing damage that's largely resulted from manufactured outrage originating from people who don't like to be disagreeed with or given back a little of that which they have no problem giving out to others, which seems to be their justification for their little "mission" against me.

                    I suppose I could write a diary saying how awesome Obama is after all, how I've changed my mind about the NSA and Edward Snowden, and give a blanket apology to those whose feelings I hurt by daring to point out the idiocy of their comments. But that isn't how I feel. I'll take a tarnished reputation before a phony one based on popularilty, any day of the week.




                    Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ J. Garcia

                    by DeadHead on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 11:50:52 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Having a common enemy breeds unity in a team; (3+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      4kedtongue, poligirl, triv33

                      if a team are fighting together, that scapegoating is something that just happens. Often those boosting their team use a chosen enemy to do it - look at how hating Obama has galvanized the right. In the eyes of Rox, you are the biggest mole, and the ripest for whacking. You don't have to be "the most damaging person on DailyKos" - you are the Sux who appears to them most rogue (which may be based more on your behavior a couple of years ago, a label which stays stuck). So it's just as well that, though you can be dickish, you basically pay attention and play by the rules.

                      I of course wasn't proposing you write a paean to Obama. I was noting that you've only written one diary in the last six months. If you don't present kossacks with fresher labels, showing other sides of your personality, "serial pie-fighter" will be the only one they see.

                      Especially when you're being tag-teamed, with a couple dozen kossacks repeating the same charges. They don't have to produce evidence - they can just keep saying them, and more people will believe them. Yup, pretty sucky.

                      As for my "reputation," well, I'm not interested in repairing damage that's largely resulted from manufactured outrage . . .
                      I understand. But being in the right may not stop you from being driven from the site, one way or another, in time. I say may, not will. You might just stay lucky.

                      Again, all this is pondering out loud. I'm sure you'll just keep being DeadHead - hopefully with enough circumspection that you also keep being a kossack.

                      I'll share two observations from my own experiences being a bit of a troll-hunter. First, I think the No Insult rule stinks - it should be No Ad Hominem. I apply insults only after careful reading and thought, to those who have really earned them. If, for example, someone's really being a thin-skinned prig, someone else should call them out on it.

                      Take duhban. My biggest problem with duhban is, he'll stubbornly persist in arrogant argument when he is completely wrong. He just doesn't read that carefully. He projects his own strong feelings on an issue, instead of reading every word of what someone else says. It's infuriating, and it demolishes both meaning and civility.

                      You and I, in a thread like that, are inclined to jab him with true but very cutting critiques. We're right - but we look like bullies. It is wiser (strategically, optically) to make those same points with accurate but less insulting phrases.

                      Secondly, even when you get troll-hunting right, it earns you enemies. If you call people on their bullshit, and are right every single time, a quarter of the people you correct will be fuming. Especially when you are obviously right. And a twelfth of them will become permanent enemies of yours. You'll notice someone piling in to HR a comment of yours (that's already hidden) several months later. A lot of people are just little children.

                      Finally, again, I'm not saying that you need to change your ways. From what I've seen of you in recent months, it seems unlikely that you'll get banned in the near future. But it seems very likely that you'll continue to be harassed, without having any effective recourse - unless you can get out of this corner that you're halfway painted into.

                      "Every man has a right to utter what he thinks truth" Samuel Johnson

                      by Brecht on Wed Jan 15, 2014 at 01:21:39 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

              •  It's spelled "judgment." (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                yojimbo

                It's a long game, and you're losing.

                •  Thanks for the spelling correction. (5+ / 0-)

                  The response of choice for someone unable to address the substance of my comment.

                  What's a "long game," Timaeus?

                  Is that a veiled admission of your conspiring to get me banned?

                  You've appeared in more than a few threads to help those I'm arguing with.

                  Calling for my banning, in so many words, a few times now. Usually in threads where others got HRed for their behavior directed towards me, not the other way around.

                  But you think you're acting in a righteous manner, I suppose.

                  Meanwhile, I have yet to ever receive a time out, have never been NR'd, rarely get a comment hidden, have never been banned, and have only received one admin warning for a bad uprate, which I removed and explained.

                  So please, go pester someone else for a day or two.

                  Thanks.




                  Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ J. Garcia

                  by DeadHead on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 07:06:09 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I'm too busy to do "conspiring" on this site, (0+ / 0-)

                    he ha.  Although you obviously do.

                    But I do intend to steadily and ethically work toward you getting disciplined and banned.

                    That will make you about the 10th bad user who got into trouble after similar bad behavior.

            •  Please don't tell DeadHead he's number 1. (9+ / 0-)

              That shit goes straight to his head!

              Tyrion Lannister: "It's not easy being drunk all the time. Everyone would do it if it were easy."

              by psychodrew on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 06:45:40 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  I feel very hurt and neglected right now. (0+ / 0-)

              I thought it was just me and Armando and then this interloper  jumps right in.

              Fie on you!  Fie say I!

        •  I'm not DeadHead's minion. (8+ / 0-)

          I'm his bitch. Please use the correct terms when throwing pie.

          kthxbai

          Tyrion Lannister: "It's not easy being drunk all the time. Everyone would do it if it were easy."

          by psychodrew on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 06:46:39 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  I earned a well deserved time out (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          poco, ord avg guy, Timaeus

          for the "pearl clutching" part of my comment and agree that the whole comment was a spew. I'm not proud of it, and will continue to try to comment more judiciously. I appreciate the support from those who agreed with the "gist" while not the angry tone I presented it in. Thank you, truly.

      •  You're the one doing the "policing," not me. (6+ / 0-)

        You're "policing" my top-level comment, which was addressed to the diary, by essentially dismissing my opinion as invalid, condemning me as some kind of fringe purist, and assuming that I don't care about the things YOU find more important.

        Because I don't love Obama like you do.

        Also, in case you hadn't noticed, I'm not in the position to be "policing" the owner of the site, so your claim fails on that alone.

        So, the only thing I will "face," then, is the rather spectacular failure of your comment.

        Go write another call-out diary about me or something.




        Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ J. Garcia

        by DeadHead on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 05:00:56 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Argh. I've been biting my tongue (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    doroma, poco, Eyesbright, BenderRodriguez

    but really? Harry Reid gets better numbers than president Obama? Because he finally sort of kind of addressed the filibuster? While the president faced unprecedented obstruction and changed foreign policy, access to health, LGBT rights, etc., etc. Harry Reid gets better numbers?

  •  Yes But (0+ / 0-)

    He has put forward many issues that are troubling.  The first is supporting the NSA spy activities while asking for change.  The

    The second is him trying to cut Social Security.  Why after being screwed by Republicans is he offering up the most important program in America?  The Republicans will go for it and more.  And from past actions we know Obama will give the Republicans everything they want and more too!

  •  Generally, yes (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    poco, Eyesbright, doroma

    I have my issues with PBO (drones, the NSA, etc.)

    But I think that considering the circumstances (i.e. a split Congress) he's doing about as well as he can.

  •  I voted no (0+ / 0-)

    because I think his significant failures are greater than his significant achievements.

    Just waitin' around for the new Amy Winehouse album

    by jarbyus on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 04:10:20 PM PST

    •  I think it's sort of the other way round. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      poco, Eyesbright
      •  It MIGHT be the other way around... (0+ / 0-)

        ...but a 60-40 split is simply not even a passing grade, muc less GOOD ENOUGH. And I would never give him that much credit...it's not possible.

        What has he done? It's a simple question. What has he accomplished? Deceptively simple.

        Here's my answer: Almost nothing. He didn't drive the legislation for the ACA; he just sat back and watched the entire process, mentioning the words 'public option' maybe ONCE in passing, letting Pelosi and Reid do almost all the work. He did not pass the DADT repeal; he left that to Congress, again. He said he supports gay marriage, several years into his terms; but that's all. He has not DONE shit about it.

        He has done NOTHING that wasn't set up for him before he was President. He exited Iraq on GEORGE W. BUSH'S calendar, not his own--and plans to exit Afghanistan on Bush's timetable, too. George W. Bush's infamous, deficit-on-steroids tax cuts became Barack Obama's tax cuts in 2010.

        What has he done? Not a goddamned fucking thing. Nowere near 60-40 in accomplishments. Keep trying to convince all those Americans who, like me, do NOT LIKE WHAT THEY SEE FROM HIM and respond to polling appropriate to that.

        Everybody LIKES the guy...but not the job he's doing. It's nobody's fault but his.

        "I feel a lot safer already."--Emil Sitka

        by DaddyO on Wed Jan 15, 2014 at 06:21:59 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  I would probably have voted "yes" if (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DaddyO

    the president had not put Social Security on the table. Since Social Security is one of my litmus tests I have to wait until his term is over unless he takes a strong stand against hurting Social Security or he decides he supports raising the payroll cap.

    48forEastAfrica - Donate to Oxfam> "It is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness." Edna St.V. Millay

    by slouching on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 04:50:55 PM PST

  •  I approve but I am not quitting my job (0+ / 0-)

    as a citizen to work to improve the governance.

  •  Every once in a while he does something I agree (0+ / 0-)

    with or takes a position I like, which is much more than I can say about any Republican.  However, to define that as approval is to accept living in a dystopia. Which I guess we do, but I don't accept it.

    We agree...that "anything which dominates the life of the community should be owned by the community." That is the basis upon which we believe there should be government ownership of monopolistic enterprises. -Tommy Douglas

    by RabbleON on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 05:38:34 PM PST

  •  Two things (0+ / 0-)

    One: Since when is a poll on a website indicative of ANYTHING reality-based?

    Two: What TOOK YOU SO LONG TO ASK US?

    I voted NO. He is the worst Democratic President of my lifetime. I have made it plain in detail elsewhere, but strangely enough no one explains that dissatisfaction better than Atrios, Brad DeLong, and, yes, MARKOS.

    "I feel a lot safer already."--Emil Sitka

    by DaddyO on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 07:27:05 PM PST

  •  Only 75%? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    poligirl, TheMomCat, Nada Lemming

    On dK?!

    Hmm....

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