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Medical Marijuana store
Harry Reid:
Several Nevada municipalities are issuing moratoriums on medical marijuana dispensaries, but Harry Reid really thinks they should be moving in the opposite direction – toward making medicinal pot legal.

“If you’d asked me this question a dozen years ago, it would have been easy to answer – I would have said no, because (marijuana) leads to other stuff,” the Senate majority leader told the Sun today. “But I can’t say that anymore.”

“I think we need to take a real close look at this,” Reid went on. “I think that there’s some medical reasons for marijuana.”

Awesome! I mean, awesome if this was 10 years ago. This has about the same effect as people who think they're all open-minded and forward-thinking for supporting civil unions. It's better than nothing, to be sure, but the world has already passed them by.

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 08:00 AM PST.

Also republished by DKos Cannabis Law and Drug War Reform.

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Comment Preferences

  •  What's even worse is that they tell me (29+ / 0-)

    that medicinal marijuana is a gateway to civil unions (or maybe vice versa - I can't quite recall - but IMHO either way is quite a sobering prospect).

  •  Great analogy (32+ / 0-)

    Colorado is weed's Massachusetts! I hope the movement toward legalization proceeds even faster than the move to marriage equality. It would be great if both became national the same year.

    •  You stole my exact words!.....Great minds...n/t (7+ / 0-)

      "A weed is a plant whose virtues have not yet been discovered." Ralph Waldo Emerson

      by Yo Bubba on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 08:21:42 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Agreed. Both are unneeded half-measures (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Dave in Northridge, tb mare

      that aren't really palatable to anybody, just "uncontroversial" enough for a pol to get his 51% of the vote.  

      "I wish you luck on not hating your parents for mixing up such an unthinkable person." --The frickin´ HP--

      by McWaffle on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 08:21:56 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  It is time… (14+ / 0-)

      …to end the War on Drugs altogether. Legalize everything. Tax everything. Regulate everything. Make the crime not paying taxes. Treat addiction as a public health issue. Commute the sentences of people in jail simply for possession.

      •  I for one agree. NT. (0+ / 0-)

        When you come to find how essential the comfort of a well-kept home is to the bodily strength and good conditions, to a sound mind and spirit, and useful days, you will reverence the good housekeeper as I do above artist or poet, beauty or genius.

        by Alexandra Lynch on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 09:49:14 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  I think a lot of other states... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Dave in Northridge, patbahn, tb mare

      ... will be watching CO-WA very closely for the next year or two.  If the experiment is successful -i.e. there are no obvious negative societal conseqeunces - I expect that we'll see numerous other legislatures following suit:  legalized, regulated, and taxed out the yin-yang.

    •  I think it's an analogy that trivializes (5+ / 0-)

      the arguments for marriage equality.  Obviously, the war on drugs is discriminatory and not sustainable, but it's not facially discriminatory, and it's not depriving people of a fundamental right.   You don't need to know anything about how the laws re marriage equality are enforced to know they're bad, you do with marijuana laws.  

      What's more, the solution to ending marriage discrimination is simple.  Medical marijuana is somewhat easier to enforce, since there's somewhat of a more regulated supply associated with it.  Moving through decriminalization to legalization is trickier than I think a lot of people want to contemplate -- is it good policy to turn murderous cartels into big businesses?  Are we to believe that people who rose to the top of these enterprises by skill at killin' are going to stop and abide by antitrust laws?  Or willingly get pushed out by big tobacco executives?  On net, legalization is probably still worth doing, if for no other reason than to stop marijuana growers from using toxic pesticides, but this "behind the times" formulation assumes good policy simply requires flipping a switch.

      With medical marijuana, anyone who actually needs it can get it: that wasn't the case with civil unions, especially to the degree they didn't have federal recognition for estate planning purposes.  Not everything that's a good idea is, therefore, a moral imperative.

      Difficult, difficult, lemon difficult.

      by Loge on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 09:00:06 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  yeah. all those people with felony convictions (5+ / 0-)

        for possession will walk out of prison to totally go on to live happy, productive lives in the career field of their choosing.

        and there wouldn't BE murderous cartels if the drugs weren't illegal to begin with.  So we should've kept the '20's prohibition on alcohol because some of the violent bad guys making money off it would go legit or find some other venue to be violently bad in?  

         as far as weed goes, when people can grow a few plants in their backyard, their won't BE a demand the cartels can supply.

        i'm not trying to trivialize marriage equality, but if you're going to put forth the notion the govt's Terrorism on Drugs hasn't resulted in discrimination...

        elipsii: helping the masses express aposiopesis for...

        by bnasley on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 09:38:15 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I don't see what that has to do (0+ / 0-)

          with anything i said, except that I said the drug war has proven discriminatory in the first sentence.  Of course, it's also discriminatory with respect to drugs that should stay illegal, so I don't know how far that gets you.  It's not facially discriminatory, is what I said, and also that  on reflection, marijuana should be legalized.   What I don't support is shunning people who think otherwise or assuming away the existence of logistical concerns.

          I don't have a backyard, by the way, and while you're right about the origins of the cartels, I don't think it's so easy to assume they can be disbanded so easily, having previously made drugs illegal, without a plan for doing so, which is why it's not an argument like marriage equality.  

          And the other argument why it's not similar is that gay people can't stop being gay, smoking marijuana, however, is a choice.  Maybe not for addicts, but with the exception of certain cancer patients, people can be perfectly happy not smoking marijuana at all, which is not the case with marriage rights for people having found partners.  

          Difficult, difficult, lemon difficult.

          by Loge on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 09:52:58 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  What I got out of the post is that medical (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Lencialoo, DFWmom

        marijuana is to full legalization what civil unions are to marriage equality.

        I don't think kos was comparing medical marijuana to civil unions, but only pointing out how inadequate both were.

      •  The Cartels and other organized crime (0+ / 0-)

        aren't going to go rampaging all over town to dominate legal marijuana.

        They can only compete with their violence. The legal business is public rather than in the shadows. Their victims feel comfortable involving the police.

        That quote about GDP by Robert Kennedy

        by erichiro on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 02:35:16 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  maybe so, (0+ / 0-)

          but it's still a prediction about the future that has a certain risk of being wrong, whereas if we had gay marriage the worst that happens is gay people get married.  I agree on legalization, just not on the metaphor.  

          Difficult, difficult, lemon difficult.

          by Loge on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 03:08:36 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  Don't forget Washington. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Forest Deva

      Colorado may have opened their stores sooner, but Washington State legalized recreational pot on the same day. Unlike Colorado, we also became one of the first states to recognize Marriage Equality at the ballot box in the same election. Part of why recreational pot was approved was because everybody could see medical pot co-ops all over the place, and it had not caused any problems of note. Just as how our everything but the word marriage civil unions law did nothing but stoke the desire for full equality. Then again, we're a little different her in the Soviet of Washington.

      Workers of the world, unite! You have nothing to lose but your shackles. It is by the picket line and direct action that true freedom will be won, not by electing people who promise to screw us less than the other guy.

      by rhonan on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 09:16:09 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  It will progress quickly after a few more states. (2+ / 0-)

      It is a hybrid model of how equal marriage and casino gambling spread, as I discussed in an interview with the head of Marijuana Majority:
      http://www.drugpossessionlaws.com/...

      It is like equal marriage on the polling side, where younger people overwhelmingly support it.

      As far as state governments go, soon it will be a necessary revenue move. If residents can buy weed across the border, you don't get that tax revenues, which isn't going to make any sense financially. State governments will want their piece.

  •  Pre-existing condition for which I should be (7+ / 0-)

    prescribed pot:

    You can't make this stuff up.

    by David54 on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 08:05:06 AM PST

  •  It may seem like too little, (20+ / 0-)

    but it's never too late.

    The whole "it leads to other drugs" comment is NOT on the mark. Marijuana does not have some chemical in it that makes one's body crave other drugs.
    What habitual marijuana use MAY do is put the user in proximity with people who have chosen to use other drugs and that improves one's opportunity and exposure to it.

    Legalize it and sell it in smoke shops and that opportunity is greatly mitigated.

    Peace is not merely a distant goal that we seek, but a means by which we arrive at that goal. - Martin Luther King, Jr.

    by Gentle Giant on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 08:05:38 AM PST

    •  The "gateway drug" theory (6+ / 0-)

      I just heard from an addiction psychologist friend of mine that the idea of grass as a gateway drug was bunk. I hadn't really thought about the idea -- it was just conventional wisdom, I suppose.

      Not being a user, the only way I can imagine it leading to other drugs is if a dealer started to offer other things to a regular buyer. That won't happen with medical marijuana.

      I'm not 100% convinced that another fully legal recreational drug is a good thing for us, but it seems clear that grass can have medical benefits. It would be great if we could regulate it more like a regular medication, and also work out dosing -- because there's no way of knowing exactly how much patients are getting when they smoke.

      •  Legalize it (16+ / 0-)
        I'm not 100% convinced that another fully legal recreational drug is a good thing for us
        The laws against marijuana are far more harmful to people and society than marijuana itself.

        +++ The law is a weapon used to bludgeon us peasants into submission. It is not to be applied to the monied elite.

        by cybersaur on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 08:19:06 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Gateway drug is alcohol: (16+ / 0-)

        http://www.isciencetimes.com/...

        Whether or not booze or weed is good for us is a health issue.
        There's a lot of stuff that's not good for us, including crappy food and soda and probably more than a few of the "legal" drugs you see advertised constantly.
        Criminalizing choices that might not be good for us is idiotic and about as un-American as you can get.

        •  Yeah (11+ / 0-)

          When one tiny little pill rocks me harder than a night of smoking weed or chugging booze does, and that little pill is handed out like candy by doctors and dentists by the bottle, our priorities are really screwed up.

          Had to have oral surgery recently, was given a prescription for percoset, only used any the first night, haven't touched the rest of the bottle. I don't know why they gave me a whole bottle of the stuff, when they could have just handed me a couple of pills on my way out, and be done with it. Doctors giving out opioids like that is creating more addicts than people getting baked at parties ever could.

          First they came for the farm workers, and I said nothing.

          by Hannibal on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 08:46:39 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  And because they increase the pool of people (7+ / 0-)

            with addiction problems there is a big move to severely restrict perscriptions for pain meds which leaves millions of chronic pain sufferers to live in constant pain and agony.

            Life is just a bowl of Cherries, that stain your hands and clothes and have pits that break your teeth.

            by OHdog on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 08:51:22 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  in oklahoma they prescribe them like candy (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Eyesbright

            damnedest thing i ever saw.

            every doctor i had there would say
            "You are over 40 you need these"
            writing scripts for percocet and other pain killers.

            i'd shove those in the back of the medicine cabinet
            and let them get old.

          •  Visiting the Netherlands, I needed an opiate once. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Hannibal, BYw

            The "granularity" of prescriptions and packaging was one tablet. The doctor prescribed, and the pharmacist dispensed, exactly four tablets.

            Getting to be the same thing with antibiotics now. You only get exactly as many as you need for the prescribed time period, and not one more.

            The Dutch kids' chorus Kinderen voor Kinderen wishes all the world's children freedom from hunger, ignorance, and war. ♥ ♥ ♥ Forget Neo — The One is Minori Urakawa

            by lotlizard on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 08:56:53 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  3 times in my life, I lived on Vicodin for (5+ / 0-)

            3 months at a time due to ruptured disks in my lower spine.

            But for those 3 months, I mostly slept, ate and used the john. The pain was intense. After each surgery, I consumed maybe 3 doses while the incision was healing, but then let it age out. (I can do a toilet dump because I'm rural and not hitched up to sewer or municipal water. I have a well and septic.)
            I still have half a bottle of vicodin from last fall when I had a bulging disk pinching a nerve in a facet in my neck. I'm lucky that I've never done anything drug-wise, prescribed or not, that I couldn't just walk away from. Though there were a few things, like coke, that I liked too much to allow myself to do again.  

            I don't have addictive tendencies. I'm lucky. I smoked pot rather regularly from age 19 until my 1st child was born when I was 29. A decade of pretty regular (ab)use. After I quit officially, for quite a while my friends gave weed to me as in, "I bought something better, so you can have this." or they misunderstood my quitting as a financial symptom and gave it to me for all the times I'd kept them floating over the years.

            My point? I survived just fine. I do have friends who have smoked pot regularly since the 60s. And they are weird at times- unnecessarily paranoid, and a couple have some issues with short-term memory.
            All things in moderation.

            I'll tell you this, I'd rather negotiate driving on the expressway with the occasional stoned driver than the occasional drunk driver. I have had some hairy close calls with people d.w.i.. I lost a cousin in the 70s to a drunk driver in Denver.
            I don't believe I've ever been threatened by someone driving while a little too happy. (DWALTH)

            Back in the day, I'd miss an exit or two, but who cares? The journey's the thing.

            Peace is not merely a distant goal that we seek, but a means by which we arrive at that goal. - Martin Luther King, Jr.

            by Gentle Giant on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 09:23:58 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  Fear vs. science (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Gentle Giant, 714day, BYw, flevitan, Arfeeto

        The conventional wisdom on this is neither conventional nor wisdom. It has long been based on fear rather than solid science. There would never have been a prohibition of marijuana starting the late 1930's had fear and racism not been a factor.

        •  In the Navy in the late 70s, early 80s, (0+ / 0-)

          marijuana was classified as a narcotic. Knowing the military world, it probably still is.

          Peace is not merely a distant goal that we seek, but a means by which we arrive at that goal. - Martin Luther King, Jr.

          by Gentle Giant on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 09:26:51 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  I agree it isn't science (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Gentle Giant

          I don't agree that it isn't necessarily true -- as I said elsewhere, I've been around a while - and I have never seen anyone go to hard drugs without starting with pot.  It may not be a gateway, but then come up with another name -- don't ignore the fact that people do pot - and some of them then want a harder high and they go out and get it.

          I find it somewhat ironic that so many people who support gun control also support legalization of some (or as some writers of comments here prove - many) drugs.  It seems to me, based only on my life experience, that the two positions are mutually exclusive.

          •  Correlation (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Minnesota Deb, BYw

            It's basically a false correlation that attempts to link marijuana as a gateway to harder drug. You're not entirely wrong, that abusers of harder drugs did marijuana along the way. My guess is that they tried cigarettes and alcohol as well. Are those also gateways, and should we make their usage criminal acts as well?

            If 95% percent of marijuana users never use anything "harder" than that, and if most harder drug users  once used marijuana (along with cigarettes and alcohol) is this a fair statistical game to play?
             

          •  The reasoning is backwards (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Minnesota Deb, BYw, flevitan

            If you go back far enough in life, they also start out with milk!

            You need to know not whether hard drug users once used pot, but whether a side effect of pot is that it makes someone crave "hard" drugs more.

            I don't get why gun control advocacy is mutually exclusive of supporting legalization of some drugs.

            Guns can kill people, and marijuana can't.  Violent criminals or people who have a history of threatening to harm a spouse or other individual, or who have severe mental illness should not be given access to guns.  I don't see why wanting to pass laws controlling gun-sellers in this way has anything to do with not wanting to pass laws saying you can't buy or possess or smoke marijuana.

      •  it's pretty clear the effect on smooth muscle (5+ / 0-)

        tissue is a useful medical benefit for people with
        nausea or inflamatory conditions.

      •  Eh, it can be a gateway, in a backass way (8+ / 0-)

        My generation heard a lot of horror stories that lumped marijuana in with methamphetamine and heroin.

        We tried marijuana, and found out that the horror stories were, well, lies.

        So a lot of us figured that all of the negative things we had heard about other drugs were also untrue.

        Some of them were.

        But a direct causual relationship- not at all.

      •  That's mainly why I'm not using it now for fibro. (0+ / 0-)

        I need to know that X amount has Y effect; I can't say, "Oh, that batch was way more potent...sorry, can't cook dinner, can't clean house, can't help you get dressed and undressed, I gotta go sleep this off."  That's unacceptable to me.

        When you come to find how essential the comfort of a well-kept home is to the bodily strength and good conditions, to a sound mind and spirit, and useful days, you will reverence the good housekeeper as I do above artist or poet, beauty or genius.

        by Alexandra Lynch on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 09:51:55 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  "Gateway" was/is part of the Drug Warrior (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        SFLiberal, BYw, OldGrandet

        mythology ...

        The Drug War. going back to its roots in 1906  has been typified by bad science, bad math, --  and bad faith   It's not surprising you'd pick up some misinformation, if you weren't paying close attention to the issue.

        Let me recommend  David Musto's classic work on the subject  

        The American Disease, Origins of Drug Control

        Now,  about "working out dosing" ... yes ... that's a good idea  so that the taxation of marijuana more closely parallels the taxation of alcohol ... more active ingredient, more tax revenue.

        But medically?

        Much of the point of  of smoking cannabis rather than using one of the cannabinoid oral pharmaceuticals is that the patient controls their own dose according to their own body's  needs of the moment.  

        The idea is to "use less" ... The goal: "more relief, less "high".  A  puff or two or three from a pipe gives much better control than swallowing a fixed-dose pill.

        A good many patients report that oral canabinol medications are either ineffective for their symptoms, or involve their being more stoned than they want to be more of the time than they're willing to be stoned.

        But this  idea: letting the patient strike a balance between the "side effects" ( euphoria, disinhibition, diminished balance and coordination, and so forth)  ... and the therapeutic value  is utterly alien to too many "mainstream" physicians.  vide: the resistance to using Patient Controlled Analgesia  (the "Pain Pump") by non-surgical patients, and those LIKELY to recover.

        The authoritarian traditions of control and restriction that the medical profession inherited from their 19th century Professors is still with us --

        "Tracking the 'fifth symptom', pain, does not necessarily mean actually alleviating it"  -- my mother's anesthesiologist."

      •  In two major studies, one in Europe and the other (0+ / 0-)

        here in America. The top "gateway drug" that led to serious drug addiction problems was nicotine with alcohol a close second...THC was way down at the bottom of the list.

        Really don't mind if you sit this one out. My words but a whisper -- your deafness a SHOUT. I may make you feel but I can't make you think..Jethro Tull

        by RMForbes on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 05:56:02 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Last time I checked, alcohol can also put you in (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JayBat, oceanview, Gentle Giant, BYw

      proximity to users of other drugs.

    •  Illegal Pot is a gateway drug. (4+ / 0-)

      Illegal pot acts as a gateway to other drugs because the black market can put people looking for a little ganja in touch with people who want to sell them other, more profitable, substances. The legal mmj I can get at a co-op here in Seattle will be top shelf bud, and the bud tenders are not sketchy in the least.

      Workers of the world, unite! You have nothing to lose but your shackles. It is by the picket line and direct action that true freedom will be won, not by electing people who promise to screw us less than the other guy.

      by rhonan on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 09:21:59 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I have to say, on balance (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Gentle Giant

      I NEVER knew anyone that did take harder drugs that didn't start with pot.  Not one.  Some of them it was pot and beer - but - and I have always known skillions of people, there is a reason I was voted most popular male in my senior class in H/S despite being gay and NOT using drugs at all - I never knew one where it was ONLY beer.  People try to tell me that has changed and most young people who get involved in harder stuff now drink beer and jump to crack or meth or whatever -- I remain to be convinced of that.  So - does it MAKE people turn to harder stuff - no -- does it often lead to harder stuff?  I've seen it do so even recently when we tried to help one of my teenage son's friends who was booted out of his house.  He stayed with us -- Jason (my son) won't touch drugs including pot but his friend (who shall remain nameless) was a pothead, we all knew that and Jason talked to me about it because it really upset him).  Lo and behold, we knew something was going haywire when things suddenly started disappearing from the house.  We had to eject the friend -- something I have never in my life done to a kid in need -- and shortly thereafter found out he had moved on from pot to mushrooms and ecstasy - which had prompted the stealing.  Gateway drug?  Not exactly, but certainly a gaping hole in the wall that entices some people through.

      •  It's a matter of one's motivation. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Alexandra Lynch, Minnesota Deb

        Some personalities look for a higher high. Ever increasingly. In Keith Richard's bio, he addresses this saying that is how people o.d. and die.
        Some approach it as an adopted lifestyle- joining a social subgroup. They do it, at least partially, to belong.

        It's also a matter of one's interpretation of what "gateway" means.
        I contend once marijuana is fully decriminalized, much of what saddles it with the gateway drug label might/can/will be removed. Remove it from the criminal element and those who use won't be as apt to be exposed to illegal, more lethal substances.
        IOW, illegality is not the only reason marijuana is considered a gateway drug. But imo, it is probably the major reason it is.
        If it is decriminalized, and destigmatized, it would be much less so.

        Peace is not merely a distant goal that we seek, but a means by which we arrive at that goal. - Martin Luther King, Jr.

        by Gentle Giant on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 09:36:10 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  This is the same as why... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        davematson

        Most people learn to walk before they learn to drive.  You're more likely to encounter common drugs before uncommon ones.

        (Also, psilocibe mushrooms are cheaper than cannabis & difficult to use habitually.)

        Those who support banning cocaine are no better than those who support banning cheeseburgers

        by EthrDemon on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 11:20:41 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  OH NO! (6+ / 0-)

    The DEA is so afraid!  What will they do now that Reid is on board?  YIKES!  Run, hide your head in the sand!

    Nice to see establishment people finally getting a clue!

    Human dignity + compassion = Peace (Anonymous)

    by Raggedy Ann on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 08:07:03 AM PST

  •  I remember the 70's (12+ / 0-)

    I was a kid, but I remember all the liberalization and decriminalization of pot efforts then. We were pretty sure it would be legal for recreational use by 1985 or so...

    And then the Reagans happened. Just say no.

    I'm not getting my hopes up until it's sold in cartons next the the Kools and the Marlboros.

    "Don't be defeatist, dear. It's very middle class." - Violet Crawley

    by nightsweat on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 08:07:10 AM PST

  •  'Remember...only dopes...smoke dope.'...... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Hillbilly Dem

    Cheech and Chong.

  •  The public is in favor, so run with it (8+ / 0-)

    Medical marijuana has passed in many states, and tends to win referenda easily. Polls support it.  Recreational passed in two states but is a lot more controversial.  So Congress should at least be ready to move to legalize the "civil unions" stage. And so should the President.  He wins no points by playing "tough on crime" and sucking up to the Anslinger brigades.  

    I suggested in this diarylast week that the President could make this one of his bullet items in the State of the Union Address.  It is the kind of wedge issue that can benefit Democrats.  While wedge issues are a Republican invention and have been used against us, it's time we hoist them by their own petard and run with legalizing medical marijuana at the federal level, so that the feds can't bust state-licensed facilities or their customers, as they can now.  Even if President Obama doesn't choose to enforce those laws strictly, imagine what a President Christie or Rubio might do.  Once the medical issue is handled, the rest may follow in good time.

    •  There is a lot of talk about legalization in local (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Cali Scribe, suzq, K S LaVida, BYw

      papers in PA and a lot of discussion about it in Harrisburg.

      There is also a lot of talk and push for marriage equality. Both legalization and marriage equality are polling well in PA.  

      A friend said...

      I think marijuana legalization might actually be more possible in PA and happen sooner than marriage equality.

      He said this because more republicans in the legislature are for legalization of pot but not for marriage equality.

      Keystone Liberals on Twitter @ KeystoneLibs , Join PA Liberals at http://keystoneliberalsforum.aimoo.com/

      by wishingwell on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 08:17:00 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  While I want both, marriage equality is a civil (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Radical Moderate, suzq

        rights, equal rights issue that needs to happen sooner as we stand out here in the northeast , surrounded by states who have marriage equality.

        Keystone Liberals on Twitter @ KeystoneLibs , Join PA Liberals at http://keystoneliberalsforum.aimoo.com/

        by wishingwell on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 08:18:28 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Marriage equality has a great headstart (0+ / 0-)

        and now the courts seem to be on their side, with the recent decisions coming out of Utah and Oklahoma which is great news.

        It will be quite some time before courts are likely to rule on the civil rights of weed smokers.

        The next big milestone is when a State Legislature legalizes a state directly, instead of ballot initiatives which have been the way to get it done thus far.

        When politicians are taking the initiative, the dominoes will start to fall quickly.

  •  Happy to hear Reid on board with this! (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Vetwife, wishingwell, cybersaur

    Funny Stuff at http://www.funnyordie.com/oresmas

    by poopdogcomedy on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 08:10:03 AM PST

  •  Florida got their million signatures ! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wishingwell, CenFlaDem

    We the People have to make a difference and the Change.....Just do it ! Be part of helping us build a veteran community online. United Veterans of America

    by Vetwife on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 08:11:51 AM PST

  •  The analogy gets even stronger. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jck, davematson

    With gay marriage, it was impossible for years to get any state legislature to pass it, therefore the courts were the only option. With legal weed, it's impossible to get a legislature to pass it, so ballot initiatives seem like the only option for now. True to be said, NH's House just voted to legalize marijuana, but the vote was very close and the governor has promised to veto it. Once a few more states have legalized it post-2016, state legislatures will take a closer look, and at some point the federal government will have to remove it from the Schedule I list.

  •  It is time to go all out on recreational support! (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rocksout, skillet, flevitan

    Mix the blood and make new people!

    by Yonkers Boy on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 08:17:12 AM PST

  •  You have to start somewhere, I suppose. (0+ / 0-)

    This is better than the relentless "drugz r bad, mkay" crap we've heard for 50 years.

  •  Sorry no (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jgkojak, skymutt, greenbell

    equating a drug to choosing who you want to spend your life with is plain insane.  

    I am all for true medical uses for pot but come on.  We ALL know that a significant percentage of "medical" users are recreational.  Until this year you could get a "prescription" for MJ easier than a BJ.  $50 and you had a script.  

    And lets be more honest about it - if pot can be legalized than so can any other drug.  How can you say pot is legal but coke isn't?  Heroin has a longer history of medical use than pot so should it be legal?  Sometimes society has to protect us from ourselves.

    It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it. Robert E. Lee

    by ksuwildkat on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 08:24:33 AM PST

    •  Ehh...nt (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JayBat, TheLizardKing, BYw, flevitan

      “In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.” Terry Pratchett

      by 420 forever on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 08:26:33 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  There's so much garbage in your post that I don't (7+ / 0-)

      even know where to begin.

      “In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.” Terry Pratchett

      by 420 forever on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 08:28:06 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Please proceed... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        greenbell, al23

        Please justify keeping cocaine illegal.  Please justify keeping heroin illegal.  Like pot they are "natural" and like pot they have medical uses.  

        Please tell me that there are no "prescription pot" abusers.

        It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it. Robert E. Lee

        by ksuwildkat on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 08:35:49 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  LOL - cocaine and heroin "natural". You just (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Alexandra Lynch, Bonsai66, BYw

          raised teh stupid up a big notch.

          “In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.” Terry Pratchett

          by 420 forever on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 08:39:16 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Go smoke a bowl (0+ / 0-)

            I guess those were plastic poppy fields in Afghanistan.....

            It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it. Robert E. Lee

            by ksuwildkat on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 08:44:56 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Poppy is not heroin. Coca is not cocaine. Go do a (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              OHdog, Bonsai66, BYw, flevitan

              little basic research before making an ass out of yourself on the interwebz.

              “In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.” Terry Pratchett

              by 420 forever on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 08:46:37 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  And an old fashioned hemp plant (0+ / 0-)

                is not today's designer bud.

                I'll stop calling him Boner when he stops saying I belong to the Democrat Party.

                by al23 on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 08:50:59 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Hemp is used for rope. The stoner version has been (4+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Davidsfr, 420 forever, Bonsai66, BYw

                  cultivated for its physiological efects for 5000 years. Just because the USA is only now cultivating the more potent strains does not make them a new and dangerous entity.

                  Life is just a bowl of Cherries, that stain your hands and clothes and have pits that break your teeth.

                  by OHdog on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 08:56:25 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Splittng hairs (0+ / 0-)

                    The stuff I grew in my moms attic back in the 70's bears no resemblance to the high tech hydroponically grown bud they cultivate today.

                    Plenty of technology applied, just like with Heroin and Coke. (I think they've smoked opium for a long time too)

                    I'll stop calling him Boner when he stops saying I belong to the Democrat Party.

                    by al23 on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 09:19:11 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Splitting hairs is right (0+ / 0-)

                      Pot diaries tend to become like RKBA diaries .

                      Obama 2012 http://whatthefuckhasobamadonesofar.com/

                      by jiffypop on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 09:26:12 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  Except that if you plant a seed of this (3+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      OHdog, Bonsai66, BYw

                      "high tech" magic herb on the gound, it will turn into a plant. Just like the stuff you allegedly grew in your mom's basement back in the 70's (which I doubt you did).

                      “In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.” Terry Pratchett

                      by 420 forever on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 09:26:31 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  Sorry you were a poor pharma-farmer According to (3+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      420 forever, Bonsai66, BYw

                      reports

                      The European Monitoring Centre For Drugs and Drug Addiction (EMCDDA), in their July 2004 report titled "An Overview of Cannabis Potency in Europe" noted the following:
                      "The available data do not show any long-term marked upward trend in the potency of herbal cannabis or cannabis resin imported into Europe.
                      The effective potency in nearly all countries has remained quite stable for many years at around 6-8%. The only exception has been the Netherlands where, by 2001-2002, it had reached 16%....[I]t must be assumed that the quality of herbal cannabis consumed in the USA more than twenty years ago was unusually poor, but that in recent years it has risen to levels typical of Europe. So even the modest increase found by ElSohly et al. (2000) may be less significant than it seems.

                      Life is just a bowl of Cherries, that stain your hands and clothes and have pits that break your teeth.

                      by OHdog on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 09:31:07 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  It is this way because of the drug war (3+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      BYw, RMForbes, wishingwell

                      It became more powerful and more high tech because of the drug war. There's a prohibition mindset that created a stronger high. Had the drug war not been in place, it's less likely to have become as jacked up as it has.

                      There's a decent chance these "less powerful" strains will become more used rather than their more jacked up "relatives" the farther we move away from prohibition.

              •  Fine pothead (2+ / 3-)
                Recommended by:
                Remembering Jello, Brecht
                Hidden by:
                Davidsfr, Alexandra Lynch, Bonsai66

                Khat
                Shrooms
                peyote

                and of course you are dead wrong about poppies since the produce raw opium that is smoked all over the world in its "natural" state.

                Coca is used in its raw state also.

                You can pretend that the pot you smoke occurs naturally but it is the product of extensive genetic engineering to increase its effects...no different than refining opium into heroin.    

                But you keep smoking your pot......

                It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it. Robert E. Lee

                by ksuwildkat on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 09:21:00 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Hide rating for belligerence (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  420 forever, Bonsai66, flevitan

                  and also outright ignorance.

                  •  Dammit, ya made me uprate (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Brecht

                    Disagreeing with someone is not grounds for an HR.

                    Is "pothead" a derisive term? I see far too many people talking about their marijuana use to think that it is.

                    So, reluctantly uprated.

                  •  ksuwildkat is, I think, completely wrong in this (0+ / 0-)

                    argument - but still not HRable.

                    When you name yourself "420 forever", you're setting yourself up to be called "pothead".

                    Much more importantly, 420 forever started the insulting:

                    "There's so much garbage in your post that I don't even know where to begin."

                    ksuwildkat gave a perhaps erroneous, but certainly civil response - and got back:

                    "You just raised teh stupid up a big notch."

                    Ignorance is, alas, not HRable. 420 forever started the belligerence. Your HR is bogus.

                    "Every man has a right to utter what he thinks truth" Samuel Johnson

                    by Brecht on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 08:23:36 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                •  You said heroin was natural. Not me. (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  BYw
                  Please justify keeping heroin illegal.  Like pot they are "natural" and like pot they have medical uses.  
                  Unless you are unable to differentiate heroin from opium.

                  “In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.” Terry Pratchett

                  by 420 forever on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 09:28:42 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                •  Wow Davissfr (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Brecht

                  you HR and dont even present a counter argument?

                  Please tell me which of those other "natural" drugs should be just as legal as pot?  Please tell me how we dont slide down that slippery slope that results in legal recreational drugs for all?

                  And please dont tell me its for "pothead."  Anyone who calls themselves "420 Forever" is not going to deny any part of "pot head"

                  It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it. Robert E. Lee

                  by ksuwildkat on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 09:30:04 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  "Slippery Slope" is always BS (4+ / 0-)

                    first of all, I've been responding to you all over this thread, go look.

                    So if gay marriage is legalized are we on a "slippery slope" to animal-human marriage and all combinations of legal polygamy?

                    Heroin and cocaine are both far more dangerous than pot, they are highly physically addictive and a signifcant amount of crime can be attributed to their use. In other words, it is not just the harm one does to oneself but to others that differentiates these drugs and this is a very reasonable basis for legality.

                    Telling people who are putting up arguments against your stance against reefer legaliziation to "go smoke more" and such is clearly belligerent. Hence the hide rating.

                    •  Careful (0+ / 0-)

                      You are starting to sound like a ditto head.  But for the record, I believe the sudden and near total change by the LDS church in opposing same sex marriage is related to polygamy.  I cant think of a civil, legal argument to polygamy and I dont think it is right to impose the Christian version of things at the expense of the Muslim one.  

                      The animal stuff is pure TeaPublican BS.

                      I agree that heroin and cocaine are worse.  The synthetics are worse still.  But the basic arguments for pot - my body, its natural, etc - are all present for a whole host of bad things.  

                      Want to get stoned?  Come up with new reasons.  I suggest looking to beer commercials.

                      It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it. Robert E. Lee

                      by ksuwildkat on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 09:55:37 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  I'm using the polygany/beastiality examples (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Bonsai66

                        to show you how weak your arguments are in saying that legalizing pot would lead to legalizing other, more dangerous drugs. I think that is pretty clear.

                        If the only harm one does is to oneself by using a substance than it should not be illegal. If there is a high incidence of crimes against others when using a drug that is a very stron case against its legalization. There is no evidence at all pot use increases the likelihood of commiting crimes against others, there is plenty of evidence that use of cocaine, heroin, and several other drugs does.

        •  Heroin and cocaine are not like marijuana (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          BYw, flevitan, wishingwell

          Both heroin and cocaine are not plants from the ground, but incredibly processed. A better analogy would be to say marijuana is to coca leaves and poppies. Both the latter two have cultural contexts within which they are used (like marijuana). Heroin and cocaine do not.

    •  Yes, I think the pot legalizing community (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Alexandra Lynch

      Loses the voters it needs to push this thing mainstream because they refuse to admit that 1) a majority of medical mj users are doing it recreationally (nothing wrong w/that) and 2) that using mj daily does negatively impact your life in some ways, and that, like all drugs its possible to abuse mj.

      I'm for legalization, but I've known enough stoners in my day to know that the people who do it daily aren't actually all that much fun to be around.

      •  This old farm gal is getting old (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Alexandra Lynch

        More unemployment!
        More food stamps (but no farms)!
        More pot (whoops farm subsidizes for growing organic pot, totally awesome)!

        /snark

        Whoa, would that have worked with every young graduate I knew who just wasn't quite ready to you know, get a job (but who was too stoned to like vote). Well, that was 45 years ago but I have a feeling the Republicans can still work with this.  

      •  I don't know if I'd say a majority. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        flevitan, wishingwell

        I mean, the muscle relaxant I use currently raises natural endorphins and relaxes skeletal muscles. The fact that it also feels really good is a nice side effect, but I would say about half the time I'm thinking about getting my calves to relax, not the pleasure.

        Life with pain sucks. I'm not going to tell anyone not to get pleasure out of life, and not everyone is as driven or controlling as I am, and they don't have to be.

        When you come to find how essential the comfort of a well-kept home is to the bodily strength and good conditions, to a sound mind and spirit, and useful days, you will reverence the good housekeeper as I do above artist or poet, beauty or genius.

        by Alexandra Lynch on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 10:08:14 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Likely because that is not true at all (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        wishingwell

        The medicinal cannabis users primarily use strains of herbal cannabis that treat their specific ailments and don't really care about getting high. My 83 year old mother has been using a strain of cannabis that has a high concentration of the CBD cannabinoid and a much lower concentration of THC to treat her chronic pain from fibromyalgia and rheumatoid arthritis. The client of my brother with Stage IV cancer uses a concentrated cannabinoid oil product produced by my brother to treat the side effects of chemotherapy. A medicinal user that suffers from insomnia drinks a cup of herbal cannabis tea before bed...they don't get stoned. You are perpetuating the mythology of marijuana created decades ago to villianize the entire genus of cannabis plants.  

        Really don't mind if you sit this one out. My words but a whisper -- your deafness a SHOUT. I may make you feel but I can't make you think..Jethro Tull

        by RMForbes on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 06:46:54 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  CO resident (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      skymutt

      probably should have added I live in Colorado.

      drugz r bad....mkay

      It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it. Robert E. Lee

      by ksuwildkat on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 08:28:49 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Because cocaine is far more dangerous than pot? (7+ / 0-)

      Who do you know that has died from pot?  I know of no one.  However, I do know people who had died from cocaine use, heroin use, and liver cirrhosis from alcohol abuse.

      I'm all for true medical uses of pot, too.  But guess what?  It's illegal to find them in this country because pot is classified as a dangerous drug.

      And actually, if you want to go far enough back in history, pot probably has a longer history of medical use.

      •  Yup (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        greenbell

        no one has ever gotten stoned and done something stupid....oh wait

        Gosh that took me 2 seconds of brain activity.  Could I have done that stoned?

        It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it. Robert E. Lee

        by ksuwildkat on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 08:38:16 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  What does that link have to do with pot? (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          420 forever, Bonsai66, BYw

          I looked through many of the incidents listed in that post and couldn't find one that pertained to marijuane. Want  to be specific about the incident you are referring to?

          And yes, you could have found that info just as quickly if you were stoned.

          •  number 36 in the link (0+ / 0-)

            so looking at "many" is not the same as all.

          •  here (0+ / 0-)

            NAIRN, LA, 12/19/13: An 18-year-old man hog hunting with two close friends accidentally shot them when he mistook them for the hogs he sought, Plaquemines Parish Sheriff Lonnie Greco said. The shots from the shotgun of Willie Evans struck and killed 18-year-old Galen Scott and injured 17-year-old Cody Jones. The incident occurred Thursday around 5:45 p.m. in Nairn, just south of Port Sulphur. According to Greco, deputies received a call of two people shot in Nairn and those who arrived on the scene found Scott suffering from wounds to the head and leg, he was pronounced dead on the scene. Jones was shot in the legs and was taken to the hospital where he underwent surgery. He is expected to make a full recovery. Greco said that based on interviews with Evans, Jones and other witnesses, it appears that the three friends went hog hunting in a wooded area and that prior to the trip, they had smoked marijuana. After the sun had set, Greco said that Scott and Jones began walking towards Evans and that he observed two objects about 75 feet away and, thinking they were the hogs they sought, he fired back-to-back rounds of buckshot from his gun, striking both young men.

            It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it. Robert E. Lee

            by ksuwildkat on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 09:11:24 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  A classic example of causal fallacy (7+ / 0-)

              You must've been drinking when you thought that this would serve as a good example of the "dangers" of marijuana.

              “In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.” Terry Pratchett

              by 420 forever on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 09:14:51 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Thanks, no proof this was caused (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                420 forever, flevitan

                by pot, and how many hunting accidents have occurred because of alcohol?

                •  If anything, the issue was probably caused by (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  BYw, flevitan

                  poor visibility:

                  After the sun had set, Greco said that Scott and Jones began walking towards Evans and that he observed two objects about 75 feet away and, thinking they were the hogs they sought, he fired back-to-back rounds of buckshot from his gun, striking both young men.

                  “In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.” Terry Pratchett

                  by 420 forever on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 09:30:23 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                •  oh come on (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  lina

                  There is NO argument that drunk people do stupid things EVERY DAY.  Hell we have whole organizations that are dedicated to keeping people from making dumb decisions while drunk.

                  Want to know why people are so resistant to legal pot arguments?  because the pot lobby pretends that people dont do dumb things while stoned.  No everything is happiness and safe while stoned.  When the pot lobby grows up and ADMITS that some people do dumb things while stoned and ADMITS that being stoned is something not every employer wants they will continue to be disregarded as adolescents.

                  If people want to smoke pot its their choice.  I could care less if they do.  But pretending you can be a productive member of society and stoned every day is comical and NO DIFFERENT than saying you can be a productive member of society and DRUNK.

                  There is a time and place to be impaired.  Its not while driving, working, hunting or a bunch of other activities.  Until the pot community admits that their impairment of choice is no different than any other drugs, they will be dismissed.

                  It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it. Robert E. Lee

                  by ksuwildkat on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 09:41:44 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Where are we going? (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    420 forever, flevitan

                    Sorry to see I can apparently only HR you once.

                  •  Define "productive". (5+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    420 forever, Davidsfr, Bonsai66, BYw, flevitan
                    But pretending you can be a productive member of society and stoned every day is comical and NO DIFFERENT than saying you can be a productive member of society and DRUNK.
                    I was a housepainter for about twenty years. Just about everybody in that trade is stoned all day long.

                    During that period, I bought my home, raised my daughter, paid my taxes, didn't cause any problems for anybody.

                    Was I "not productive"?

                    Today my job involves a lot more interaction with the public and a lot more math, so i don't work stoned anymore. Am I "more productive" now that I'm running a retail business?

                    Serious question.

                    •  and a lot of media companies and museums (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Remembering Jello, flevitan

                      in NYC in the 80s and 90s (probably other decades too, this is just from my experience) were likewise staffed with people among whom you could find those who consumed marijuana along with their morning coffee.

                    •  Yikes (0+ / 0-)

                      As someone who is scared of heights I can't imagine painting while stoned.  I would guess that any workmans comp claim would be invalidated by the presence of drugs (or alcohol) in the system.  Im glad you had no adverse effects.

                      So I look at this as a parent.  Would you want your child (as an adult) to go to work stoned?  Would you want your child (as an adult) to drive stoned?  If the answer is no, it is probably because you recognize that the risks of doing so are great.  What is a productive member of society?  One who doent place their own safety and the safety of others below the desire to be in a chemically altered state.

                      It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it. Robert E. Lee

                      by ksuwildkat on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 10:15:54 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

    •  Well some people use prescription meds for (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      annieli, Bonsai66, flevitan, davematson

      recreational use, sadly I used to treat far too many who were addicted to legally prescribed medications as well as very legal alcohol. I never had a patient in those years I did addictions counseling who are addicted to marijuana...but many who were alcoholics or hooked on their pain meds.

      Keystone Liberals on Twitter @ KeystoneLibs , Join PA Liberals at http://keystoneliberalsforum.aimoo.com/

      by wishingwell on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 08:48:33 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Pot is less dangerous than alcohol, nicotine (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      420 forever, flevitan, RMForbes

      maybe even caffeine. They are all legal substances. Pot is only illegal because of Hearst's fear of hemp and the alcohol industry's fear of losing business. There is no good basis for illegalizing pot.

    •  Legalize it (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      420 forever, davematson, RMForbes

      I've heard this argument all my life, it's obfuscation. Because pot is called a drug then ALL drugs are lumped together. Then you are asked to defend legalizing coke and heroin. Marijuana is not cocaine or heroin. I smoke pot, I do not do heroin or coke. I do not want to legalize heroin or coke. Let heroin and coke users fight there own battles. Just like gays only want the right to marry, not have man on dog sex.

      •  and I will advertize it (0+ / 0-)

        sorry I can't link to Bob Marley on YouTube!

      •  Marijuana is not a drug (0+ / 0-)

        It's not even a variety of cannabis plants...it's a slang term created to villianize the entire genus of cannabis plants because after the invention of the hemp decorticator the cannabis hemp plant suddenly threatened the profitability of timber paper products and the newly developed synthetic nylon fiber products. Like the drug in coffee is called caffeine and the drug in tobacco is called nicotine, the drugs found in cannabis resins are called cannabinoids. Cannabinoids are arguably the most therapeutic and least toxic substances known.  

        Really don't mind if you sit this one out. My words but a whisper -- your deafness a SHOUT. I may make you feel but I can't make you think..Jethro Tull

        by RMForbes on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 06:56:53 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  "Society has to protect us from ourselves" (0+ / 0-)

      Is exactly the argument against marriage equality.

      How about no one tries to tell anyone else what to do with their bodies or in their bedrooms, ok?

      Those who support banning cocaine are no better than those who support banning cheeseburgers

      by EthrDemon on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 11:23:15 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  ....mmmm.... (0+ / 0-)

      And, that's what we call "authoritarianism".

      I don't want to be protected from myself.   I want factual information, and choices.   I might even want certifications and advisory warnings to guide me.   And then, I want to make my own choice.

      You are making an assumption that the government actually can protect you from yourself.   I am not convinced, and the evidence is shaky.   How long has the "Drug War" been going on?    Have you seen the news?  The gangs are more sophisticated now.  The urban drug centers are spreading to the suburbs.    Has our strategy of "protecting people from themselves" actually working?    I don't think we can call the Drug War, the strategy of attempting to restrict people's choose about what they put into their bodies, a success.   I've asked my kids, and they know the kids in school who do drugs, and know how to get some if they want it.    Just like thirty years ago.    So, what have we accomplished?  How much money did we spend?   How much money have we diverted from public coffers to criminal gangs because we are too moral to let it flow through the legitimate market?  

      Enabling people to make better choices, rather than attempting to constrain their choices, is a much more effective strategy.    If we can offer free education, we can offer free rehab.   It would be cheaper than all the prisons and the SWAT teams.

      •  Speed limits? Safety regulations? (0+ / 0-)

        So speed limits are out?  Seatbelt laws?  Helmet laws?

        We accept all manner of government restrictions on stupid.

        It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it. Robert E. Lee

        by ksuwildkat on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 03:00:14 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  There are some differences (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          SFLiberal

          Speed limits involve protecting people from other people.   I didn't say it's not a function of government to protect people from other people.  I belive that is a valid and necessary function.   It is only protecting people from themselves that I object to.  It is a fundamentally different proposition.      I agree that we should have a right that people shouldn't just run right over us, that we have to have some rules to make our transportation system work for everyone.    However, in the case of drug use, I don't necessarily agree that we have a right to demand that other people won't use drugs because we think it's immoral or we just don't like them doing that or even that it's a danger to them, no more than we have a right to tell them they can't skydive, or rappel, or downhill ski, or any of the other activities people do that are potentially dangerous, or tell them they have to go to church because we think that's healthier for them.        And, we have already recognized this, in allowing cigarettes and alcohol, which are both  scientifically proven to cause death.  How much more dangerous can something be?!!!!

          Seatbelt and helmet laws are regulations relating to a shared transportation system, and can be justified in reducing the disruption of our transportation system that impacts all of us. When someone dies due to improper use of a regulated transportation device -- i.e., a car or motorcycle --  it disrupts the flow of traffic to greater degree than a simple collision with no casualties, and we have to send paid public workers to go scrape their remains off our roadways.      Regulating use of vehicles on public roads in a way that keeps the roads operating efficiently for all is more of an argument for the use of seatbelts or helmets than protecting people from themselves.  

          I can justify restrictions on drugs to keep them away from kids.  And, to keep them out of public areas.   And, to keep them from being imposed on others who do not want to participate or be exposed to them.   But, I have a much harder time justifying interfering with privacy and freedom of individuals in their own homes.  And, I think that the history of various attempts at Prohibition backs that up.   A large chunk of our population, so large that it is unmanageable, do not consent to having this area of their lives governed, and they have demonstrated that fact, over and over and over again.

          One issue that does exist, however, is how crazy a person has to be, in order for his rights to be constrained, and for the government to move into a caretaking role, and what do we do when that happens.    While I support the right of people to use drugs, I recognize that drugs can render some of them incompetent, and then we have to have a plan for what to do with them.   However, I object to a "futurecrime" justice system, that takes away the freedoms of everyone, because some people misuse those freedoms.

          There are trade-offs.   We err on the side of constraining freedom in this country, and I think it's a mistake.   The Drug War, and Prohibition, demonstrate very effectively how this approach does not work.  

    •  You are grossly uninformed on the topic (0+ / 0-)

      Cannabis resins have been used medicinally for a wide range of ailments for at least 5,000 years. Most of what you are calling recreational use is actually medicinal use. The stress of modern life has well known links to serious medical problems while occasional cannabis use is a safe and effective treatment for stress. Also, cannabinoids like CBD promotes a healthy sleep cycle and there is nothing more important to overall health than getting a good nights sleep. There is no better cure for insomnia than the herbal cannabinoids found in cannabis resins.

      Really don't mind if you sit this one out. My words but a whisper -- your deafness a SHOUT. I may make you feel but I can't make you think..Jethro Tull

      by RMForbes on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 06:33:12 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  On the other hand (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Alexandra Lynch, flevitan

    I agree the world is passing you by if you are so bold as to be in favor of civil unions or medical marijuana.

    On the other hand when you look at progress or going backwards, who would think that concepts like the minimum wage or child labor or inspecting the food supply chain would still be subject to discussion? Or that somehow contraception and outlawing it can still be seriously discussed.

    Blue is blue and must be that. But yellow is none the worse for it - Edith Sidebottom

    by kenwards on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 08:37:46 AM PST

  •  medical marijuana is/isn't like medicinal whisky (0+ / 0-)

    during Prohibition. either move to make it a regulated supply-chain industry with government monopoly farms and hospital medical dispensaries, or make it an ATFE regulated industry like distillers, so we can buy it like beer/whisky with ID, not even like nasal decongestants (like we're all going to make crystal meth at home)

    Warning - some snark may be above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 "I’m not the strapping young Muslim socialist that I used to be" - Barack Obama 04/27/2013

    by annieli on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 08:38:05 AM PST

  •  I have serious (0+ / 0-)

    concerns about pot being legally sold for recreational use. Sure for most, like with alcohol, dependency will not be an issue. But what about that significant minority who will find that they can't get through the day without taking a hit or two?

    Plus its not unreasonable to expect that now legal herb will have an easier time finding  it's way down to underage kids?

    I could see decriminalizing, since no one should go to jail or be fined because they get high. But state sponsored promotion of drug use leaves me cold.  

    I hope it works out better than I think it will.

    I'll stop calling him Boner when he stops saying I belong to the Democrat Party.

    by al23 on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 08:39:12 AM PST

    •  well people are carded before being served drinks (0+ / 0-)

      or being served booze so the same can be done when buying pot.  

      Employers are now giving drug tests to test for tobacco , alcohol and all other drugs. That is because some are giving insurance discounts for non smokers and are testing or insurance companies are even testing for tobacco.
      So employers could always test for marijuana too if they desired considering they test for alcohol, prescription meds, tobacco now.

      Keystone Liberals on Twitter @ KeystoneLibs , Join PA Liberals at http://keystoneliberalsforum.aimoo.com/

      by wishingwell on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 08:54:05 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'm sure they will card (0+ / 0-)

        in CO and WA, but my point is that it will still be easier for (underage) kids to get high, just like it is with alcohol.

        I'll stop calling him Boner when he stops saying I belong to the Democrat Party.

        by al23 on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 08:58:56 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Teens all ready seem to be able to get it easily (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Davidsfr, RMForbes

          as does my 70 yr old friend who easily is able to get it via grandchildren or children as he is a regular user. He never has trouble getting any and neither do any teens I have ever met or known.

          It is easy to get even in states where it is illegal. It is not a difficult drug to find

          Keystone Liberals on Twitter @ KeystoneLibs , Join PA Liberals at http://keystoneliberalsforum.aimoo.com/

          by wishingwell on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 09:01:54 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  You're right (0+ / 0-)

            but I guess I just don't want to make drug abuse easier. I feel for the significant minority of users who will eventually have these drugs, including alcohol, mess up their lives.  

            I'll stop calling him Boner when he stops saying I belong to the Democrat Party.

            by al23 on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 09:07:09 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Cannabinoids do not affect the brain like alcohol (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              wishingwell, SFLiberal

              The herbal cannabinoids found in cannabis resins mimic the natural cannabinoids produced by our body's endocannabinoid system. There are over 80 herbal cannabinoids in cannabis resins and only about 6 of those are psychoactive. Most cannabinoids are not psychoactive and some like CBD actually kills the THC high. It is possible to use cannabinoids to treat significant ailments without producing a high at all. My mother has been using herbal cannabis to treat the chronic pain from fibromyalgia for the last four years and she hasn't gotten high once.

              Really don't mind if you sit this one out. My words but a whisper -- your deafness a SHOUT. I may make you feel but I can't make you think..Jethro Tull

              by RMForbes on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 07:11:03 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

    •  They can already get it (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      OHdog, Lencialoo, RMForbes

      We are fooling ourselves if we think the drug dealers aren't targeting addicts and underage kids, or that either demographic has trouble getting either at the moment. The irony on legalization is that society can easier restrict it than when it's illegal.

      •  How (0+ / 0-)

        does legalization make it easier to restrict drug use?

        I'll stop calling him Boner when he stops saying I belong to the Democrat Party.

        by al23 on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 09:10:06 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  The great lesson of Alcohol Prohibition (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Lencialoo

          In the '20s and '30s, if you didn't like the fact that your local speakeasy was open all hours of the night, too bad. If you didn't like the fact that it was too close to a residential area, too bad. Your only hope was that the police weren't bought off and might close it down. Of course another would spring up and stay open all night.

          You have recourse to petition your local town council, or otherwise have a say in where establishments can sell liquor, and how late at night, etc. This is only because it is legal.

          Marijuana is way easier for a teenager to obtain than alcohol or cigarettes because the latter substances are legal. A business owner whose livelihood/ ability to support his/her family would not risk meddling with that and forfeit a business license. The drug dealer has none of those concerns. Every day is a risk, you can't up the stakes on the drug dealer.

          We used to think this were possible, thus the drug war. It's abject failure to curb or restrict marijuana usage tells us otherwise.

          Another example: Cigarettes are legal for adults to use. But you can't smoke them in buildings, restaurants, within 10 feet of a door, etc. You sanction places where they can be used, you have an ability to restrict where you don't want them used. People agree with the system, have bought in/ participate fairly, and it seems to work out.

          I have a strong belief the same can happen with marijuana. It seems to be working in CO. We can trust people to do the right thing. In most cases, they do.

        •  Because legal means regulated (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          SFLiberal

          It is impossible to regulate the illicit markets which are created by criminalization.

          Really don't mind if you sit this one out. My words but a whisper -- your deafness a SHOUT. I may make you feel but I can't make you think..Jethro Tull

          by RMForbes on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 07:13:44 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  legalize all drugs (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    annieli, wishingwell

    since the most damaging drug alcohol is legal.

  •  Medical Marijuana cures closed mindedness. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    flevitan, RMForbes, Jeff Simpson

    The only known side effect is a slight elevation in forward thinking.


    I think clowns wear makeup just to get my attention. Actually, I’m more of the big shoe type.

    by glb3 on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 08:49:54 AM PST

  •  So WTF exactly changed? (0+ / 0-)
    “If you’d asked me this question a dozen years ago, it would have been easy to answer – I would have said no, because (marijuana) leads to other stuff,” the Senate majority leader told the Sun today. “But I can’t say that anymore.”
    The active ingredient in Marijuana was the same 10 years ago.....and people were getting cancer, glaucoma, HIV et al in 2004.

     

    This space for rent -- Cheap!

    by jds1978 on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 08:49:56 AM PST

  •  It is awesome to here this coming from (0+ / 0-)

    Congress. Yeah, we are way ahead of them but nothing changes if they don't move forward.

    And daddy won't you take me back to Muhlenberg County Down by the Green River where Paradise lay. Well, I'm sorry my son, but you're too late in asking Mister Peabody's coal train has hauled it away. John Prine

    by high uintas on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 08:51:08 AM PST

    •  Good gawd (0+ / 0-)

      I should finish my tea before I type.

      And daddy won't you take me back to Muhlenberg County Down by the Green River where Paradise lay. Well, I'm sorry my son, but you're too late in asking Mister Peabody's coal train has hauled it away. John Prine

      by high uintas on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 01:34:44 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Legalize everything. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Alexandra Lynch, MKinTN, davematson

    There, I said it.  You want coca leaves, go get 'em.  Chew 'em all you want.  Pot brownies (obey the smoking sections, please), build that back yard still, suck the juice out of poppy to your heart's content.

    HOWEVER--

    We can still choose to outlaw formulations, mixtures and distillations that are at dangerous levels.  Coca = ok.  Cocaine/crack = not ok.   Pot = ok.  Highly concentrated, distilled concoctions of THC = not ok.  Cold meds ok.  Meth = not ok.

    Get my drift?  We live in an age of sophisticated chemistry and back yard chemists who will try anything and come up with substances we haven't even thought of.  The drug laws need to change to respond with precision, not with a sweeping generalization that throws the baby out with the bathwater.

    The problem with keeping pot illegal is that you are preventing research into some of the useful things that can be done with the substances in that plant.  Pot is more than just THC.  There are 84 other cannabinoids and 400 other trace substances in the plant.  Various strains have varying combinations of them.

    If you read exactly what the US Food and Drug Administration says about pot for medicinal purposes, its major criticism is that  content, production, and supply are unregulated.  Ok.  Regulate it.  Allow drug companies to produce and experiment with properly calibrated and pure doses of some of these cannabinoids.  

    Currently, both of my sons take a class a controlled substance to treat their ADD.  This substance is not addictive, if properly dosed, but you do build up a tolerance.  You also lose appetite and over time, there's a risk of heart problems.  What if a better solution for their ADD was contained in the marijuana plant?  But we just let it sit there because...oooh...THC is dangerous and we don't know how much is in that leaf or bud!  

    Let's all grow up, become adults and learn some science.  Find out if there are effective and useful substances, remove them from the dangerous ones and create some effective medication.  Have we forgotten how to do this?  

  •  Bad analogy (0+ / 0-)

    There literally is no downside to legalizing gay marriage,  whereas legalizing marijuana will increase the use of a harmful intoxicant with the potential to create significant public health and public safety issues.

    Since pot legalization is about balancing personal freedoms vs. protecting people from harm, a better analogy is that pot legalization is akin to looser gun control.  Pot makes some people happy, guns make other people happy.

    •  Comparing legalizing mj (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Davidsfr, Bonsai66, flevitan

      With looser control of guns would only be apt if we had a war on guns, and were putting millions of people in jail for their guns while spend untold billions of dollars.

      As my father used to say,"We have the best government money can buy."

      by BPARTR on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 09:06:10 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Embracing the harmful (0+ / 0-)

      If classifying something as "harmful" was truly an excuse to outlaw it, then the inevitable conclusion is that we have no freedom at all, and almost everything is illegal.  

      We become a herd of cattle that have no choices of our own.

      If people have freedom and liberty and privacy, then they have the freedom and liberty and privacy to choose to embrace the harmful.  If we deprive ourselves of the freedom to embrace the harmful, then we consequently disengage ourselves from the embrace of freedom and liberty and privacy.

      Embrace the harmful.

  •  The reason that legalizing marijuana (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Davidsfr, OHdog, Natron, davematson

    And accepting gay marriage have gained acceptance at the same time can be found in Leviticus, where it says

    " if a man lies with a man they should be stoned!"

    As my father used to say,"We have the best government money can buy."

    by BPARTR on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 09:03:12 AM PST

  •  Intermediate civil union step IS important... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    davematson

    ...I'd bet mosthetero  folks who have evolved to support marriage equality have first gone throuigh a transitional phase where they accept civil unions, but not yet full marriage for non-hetero couples.  True, that stage is not fully enlightened thinking, but it's an essential catalyzing step for many folks, allowing them to begin letting go of their previous fundamental perspective on the matter enough for fuller enlightenment to occur.  Without enough of the general public having undergone that transformative process, you wouldn't have marriage equality proceeding nearly so far, so decisively toward acceptance as it is.

    Same way with marijuana acceptance, except that the fundamentals of the perspective against it aren't nearly as deeply rooted as were most hetero's original perspective on marriage - increasingly relaxed acceptance of medical marijuana is similarly an essential transitional phase for most people who formerly thought it should stay illegal.  Progress toward acceptance of marijuana legality isn't nearly so inevitably set yet as you seem to think it is - do you think the feds would be leaving Colorado alone if Romney had won?  At best, the feds would be severely tightening up on medical marijuana restrictions in the states that have allowed it, as if it was indeed dangerous if its availability was not severely restricted.  You might still win in the long run, but the MUCH longer run than the present course.

    Take the favor of Harry Reid's evolving opinion for the positive indication of fundamental broader change within the public that it is, and don't be so begrudging.

  •  Glad to see this issue taken up (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RMForbes

    There is huge correlation between legalizing marijuana, marriage equality and blue state/ post industrial economies. I plan to do a diary posting on this issue soon.

    Marijuana legalization has racial equality, worker relations, environmental and economic consequences. It's time to end the prohibition of marijuana and tax it.

  •  Legalization Is Unstoppable (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    davematson, RMForbes

    This is going to follow the same logarithmic trajectory that marriage equality has had.....if not an even stepper trajectory.  Public opinion has decidedly turned for these two issues and there's no going back.  

  •  All marijuana is NOT created equal. Most people (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SFLiberal, RMForbes

    talk about the "strength" of pot today vs some dirt weed they scored as HS students. But there are multiple isomers of cannibinoids and therefore multiple strains possible. All the names are not just marketing gimmicks (although some are and very clever too). The delta 9- tetrahydrocannaibinol  has one set of effects but these are modified or even diminished by some of the other cannabinoids present in variable amounts. And their interaction with your own endogenous cannabinoids makes this an area where you should know what you are buying and by commercialization there is a lot more possiblility for you to know. Ideally you may find "your" bud and grow it yourself under controlled indoor conditions since environmental vagaries during a grow season may change the proportions of the isomers.

    Life is just a bowl of Cherries, that stain your hands and clothes and have pits that break your teeth.

    by OHdog on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 09:16:41 AM PST

  •  You know what I love? (0+ / 0-)

    When people compare equal civil rights under the law to the ability to legally use a drug.

    Don't get me wrong.  I support legalizing recreational marijuana.  It's just that there's a big difference between the two things.

  •  not really confidence inspiring (0+ / 0-)
    “If you’d asked me this question a dozen years ago, it would have been easy to answer – I would have said no, because (marijuana) leads to other stuff,” the Senate majority leader told the Sun today. “But I can’t say that anymore.”
    the gateway drug bullshit was bullshit 10 years ago.  the data hasn't changed and its not like there's been a quantum leap in new findings.

    gotta wonder what other conclusions the Senate Majority Leader is ignoring the data on.  is his willful ignorance causing the same amount of harm on those issues as perpetuating the government's terrorism against marijuana users has caused?

    elipsii: helping the masses express aposiopesis for...

    by bnasley on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 09:20:30 AM PST

  •  Here in VT (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    davematson

    we talk about this all the time. The wedding industry got a big boost by being the first state to recognize civil unions. There is no denying the positive economic benefit and I hope it 'moved the window' as they say.

    At the same time, when the movement pushed on the 'separate but equal' category started to feel a bit embarrassing.

    Drug wars are stupid

    by Danny Boy on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 09:23:48 AM PST

    •  Vermont may be one of the first (0+ / 0-)

      to legalize via the legislative process.

      Vermont has always been a progressive leader, first with civil unions, and now with experiments with statewide single payer health insurance.

      Legalizing marijuana straight up would be a great move.

  •  One Big Difference. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    flevitan

    Living here in Washington State, I much prefer our current rules for Medical Marijuana than what our recreational pot laws allow. Not the least of the differences is that our medical laws allow you to grow your own, while the recreational laws do not allow home grows. Tied with that, our medical laws allow one to possess amounts consistent with supplying one's needs from crop to crop. Most seriously, due to the recreational law not being intended to replace the medical system, many of the concentrates that are used medicinally are not currently allowed under the recreational rules. Oh, and medical and recreational pot have different taxes and license fees. Keeping the two systems is what was intended when we legalized recreational pot, but there are now a number of groups, including recreational pot enterprises that are trying to get the WSLCB to merge medical users into the commercial pot system, and get rid of our communal gardens and home growers.

    Workers of the world, unite! You have nothing to lose but your shackles. It is by the picket line and direct action that true freedom will be won, not by electing people who promise to screw us less than the other guy.

    by rhonan on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 09:35:03 AM PST

  •  Medicinal Marijuana is a scam (0+ / 0-)

    There is no FDA-validated evidence that consumption of unprocessed marijuana has any medical benefit, and using the "medicinal" back door undermines legitimate evidence-based medicine.

    Marijuana should be legal because people like it and it poses no public health risk - not because of quack theories about medical benefit.

    Those who ignore the future are condemned to repeat it.

    by enigmamf on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 10:02:44 AM PST

  •  Well, how 'bout that? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    flevitan, davematson

    Harry Reid is unafraid to admit he changed his mind. Contrast that refreshing bit of honesty with the approach of Republicans who jeer at politicians who rethink their positions.  For them, anyone who changes his or her mind lacks proper conviction or is otherwise "weak."  On the contrary, Senator Reid's declaration smacks of political courage, a rare quality these days.  Indeed, it puts him in agreement with John Maynard Keynes.  When informed that a current opinion of his contradicted an earlier one, Keynes famously replied, “When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?”

  •  The "Overton Window" is shifting towards sanity. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    davematson, Arfeeto

    Harry Reid is evidence that perceptions on the issue of legalization are changing where it counts, Congress.

    This is really good news, because if this trend continues, Marijuana can be studied impartially and reclassified on the DEA drug schedule appropriately to its relative risk of harm.

    There is no doubt in my mind of the Medicinal benefit. There shouldn't be any real controversy on this point.

    All Congress has to do is stop blocking all movement.
    The tipping point in the states for medicinal use is already here.

    With legalization in Washington and Colorado, and probably California and New York within the next few years, the freeze out at the federal level is unsustainable.

    Out right legalization will take longer if indeed our society is ready.

    If you follow this topic then you know that Congress has created a catch 22 where the DEA will not reclassify without studies, but the FDA and other agencies are forbidden from doing the studies both by defunding any such activities and by specific mandate from Congress.

    Give Harry a pat on the back, not a kick in the pants because he is not perfect.

    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire

    by leftover on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 11:14:59 AM PST

  •  Once again, Markos shows why he is the head (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Arfeeto

    honcho on this site. Love ya, brother!

    You might very well think that; I couldn't possibly comment.

    by MikePhoenix on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 12:24:03 PM PST

  •  ...because marijuana leads to other stuff... (0+ / 0-)

    So, what gives the government the right to restrict the freedom of people to do "other stuff"?

  •  What (or who) leads? (0+ / 0-)

     

    I would have said no, because (marijuana) leads to other stuff,” the Senate majority leader told the Sun today. “But I can’t say that anymore.”
    Marijuana is a weed, that grows from the ground.  It doesn't "lead" anything or anyone, anywhere.    It sits where it's put, until someone picks it up and does something with it.

    What Reid is really saying is that people choose to use marijuana.  And, they sometimes choose to use other stuff.   And, Reid doesn't like the choices that some people make.  So, Reid wants to make laws that prevent people from having the freedom to make their own choices.

    But, Reid doesn't say that.   He doesn't say that he doesn't like the choices people make and he wants to stop people from making choices.  Because, telling people he wants to take away their freedom and their choices might sound kinda' bad.

    Instead, he suggests that people are powerless drones to be led, and marijuana is an animated entity that exerts control over the powerless drone humans, and he's just saving the helpless people from the evil animated weed.  

    The truth is that it is Reid who wants to exert his control over people  --  not marijuana or "other stuff".

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