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At The Atlantic, Derek Thompson writes The Keeping-Up-With-the-Joneses Myth:

Behind the Great Recession, there was a credit crunch. Behind the credit crunch, there was a housing bust. And behind the housing bust, there was an explosion in debt in mid-2000s among low-income households.

So what was behind that?

One explanation begins with inequality. The idea is that the rich-poor gap leads to credit booms—as the poor try to close the gap with borrowed money— and this leads to defaults, financial busts, and recessions. This story would make the "keeping-up-with-the-Joneses principle" a key player in the great crash. It would also implicitly shift some of the blame to low-income people being, well, jealous and greedy for the lifestyle of their richer neighbors.

There are two problems with this story. First, there's no evidence that inequality actually leads to credit booms, in the first place. Second, a new paper finds that the parts of the country where poor families took on the most debt weren't the areas with the most inequality. They were the areas with the least inequality.

To examine whether big rich-poor gaps turn poor people into big borrowers, researchers looked at local levels of income inequality and debt-accumulation. They found that poor households didn't borrow more in high-inequality areas. Instead, poor households borrowed more in poorer areas (i.e.: areas with less overall inequality). In short, it's the opposite of what the keeping-up-with-the-Joneses effect would predict. Poor households borrowed more when they had poor neighbors, not rich neighbors.

How come?

One possible answer is that banks operating in richer counties were more likely to reject loans to poorer families. "Lower-income mortgage applicants in high-inequality regions are rejected more frequently and pay higher mortgage rates than similar applicants in low-inequality regions," they write.

Another plausible answer is that predatory lenders were preying on poor families in poor areas. Gail Burks, president and CEO of Nevada Fair Housing Inc in Las Vegas, told the Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission that she had witnessed a "metamorphosis" in the lending industry that had given birth to "predatory lending practices such as flipping loans or misinforming seniors about reverse mortgages." [...]


Blast from the Past. At Daily Kos on this date in 2007Obama vs. Fox Noise Channel:

Over at what Keith Olbermann now calls Fox Noise Channel, they just can't back away from their attempt to slime Barack Obama.  Not only did John Gibson repeat the lies long after they'd been debunked, he also repeated the bogus "it came from Hillary" assertion.

And since Fox follows the Bush administration's golden rule "when you're in a hole, dig faster," they've also gone after CNN's Anderson Cooper for calling them on their lies. Hilariously, Fox spokesperson Irena Briganti demeaned Cooper's reporting ability and called his correction of Fox's errors "a cry for help." Coming from a network whose sole purpose is whining, Cooper should take this as unvarnished praise.  

The Obama lies are a model for the off-key moaning of the right's media machine.  Fox ran the lies on two shows, and plastered it on Papa Murdoch's king of yellow journalism, the New York Post. From there it was picked up by right wingnut talk show hosts who pitched in to keep the swift boats sailing. This included Dan Caplis, who not only repeating Fox's false accusations about Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, but adding his own dash of nuttery by calling Obama's elementary school a "Muslim seminary."

As usual, no one on the right seems to be interested in facts when they've got a good character assassination underway, especially if they can sling mud at Obama and Hillary at the same time. Stopping now would be slander interruptus.


Tweet of the Day:

#ChrisChristie and the Subpoenas... http://t.co/...
@bennydiego



On today's Kagro in the Morning show, Mike Huckabee says women must control their libidos, and Dick Black says men can't, because "nighties." Greg Dworkin rounds up the Christie news, Ryan Cooper's "The tea party and the structure of American government," Beinert on Rand Paul, and two from Sarah Kliff tracking ACA news. We gave in to more Richard Sherman stories, again comparing his bravado to that of, say, "successful" businessmen and tech bros. Very Serious News interview interrupted for a Bieber update! "Take your tech start-up gospel and shove it." And "When companies break the law and people pay: The scary lesson of the Google Bus."


High Impact Posts. Top Comments.

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Comment Preferences

  •  In some movies, characters from the south (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JeffW, Pluto, JML9999, ontheleftcoast, Aunt Pat

    call them, "subpeenies."
    Not sure what that tells us, but there it is.

    After 65 years, the ONLY thing I know absolutely and positively about life is that the check is SUPPOSED to be in the mail. That's it. Nothing else. PERIOD.

    by franklyn on Fri Jan 24, 2014 at 08:37:13 PM PST

  •  Christie's Office "Declines to Release Personal.. (7+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Jeff Y, JeffW, Pluto, JML9999, Aunt Pat, Ender, 714day

    ...mails of top aides"

    ...Gov. Chris Christie's office has declined to release emails from the personal accounts of two top aides to the governor involved in the George Washington Bridge scandal, according to a liberal super PAC based in Washington...

    American Bridge, a pro-Democratic group...filed a request under New Jersey's Open Public Records Act for the emails. Christie's office denied it in a letter dated Thursday, the group said...

  •  I suspect that both are true... (12+ / 0-)

    ...banks in richer areas may have tended to reject bad loan applicants, and the banks in poorer areas were predatory, probably with an eye to acquire more properties. I wouldn't be surprised if it was branches of the same bank, either.

    Float like a manhole cover, sting like a sash weight! Clean Coal Is A Clinker!

    by JeffW on Fri Jan 24, 2014 at 08:38:14 PM PST

    •  Banks in richer areas would have more options (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Calamity Jean

      than banks in poorer areas.

      This whole "keeping up with the Joneses" thing is not out of the question, but it's not something I associate with poor people.  The "Joneses" in that scenario are people around you and with whom you associate.  Poor people tend to be around other poor people by virtue of where they live.  Those Joneses are not so hard to keep up with.  OTOH, go up the income scale a bit, and we come across the idea of "house poor" folks living among people with more discretionary income.

      LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

      by dinotrac on Sat Jan 25, 2014 at 04:29:52 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Diary Election Rescue is BACK! please support (16+ / 0-)

    on Monday evenings, posting around 7 pm pacific. Last Monday, there were only 3 comments....I know kossacks have tons to say on elections!

  •  Well The McDonnells were trying to keep up with (9+ / 0-)

    The Thurston Howells

    so who knows

    I want 1 less Tiny Coffin, Why Don't You? Support The President's Gun Violence Plan.

    by JML9999 on Fri Jan 24, 2014 at 08:43:28 PM PST

  •  Have a great weekend everyone! (6+ / 0-)

    “I would like to get rid of the homophobes, sexists, and racists in our audience. I know they're out there and it really bothers me.” ― Kurt Cobain

    by Jeff Y on Fri Jan 24, 2014 at 08:44:21 PM PST

  •  Fred Thompson touting reverse mortgages (11+ / 0-)

    as having been signed into law by President Reagan is enough to condemn them. It's just another way Wall Street guarantees that the middle class can't do what the 1% do--pass money on to the next generation.

    And just as bad, now AARP and others are selling term life insurance for "end of life expenses."

    "The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

    by Lily O Lady on Fri Jan 24, 2014 at 08:52:16 PM PST

  •  While that graphic is a hoot I sure as hell hope (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JeffW, Meteor Blades, Aunt Pat

    we don't have a 5th, 6th and 7th season of The Subpoenas. Cancel that show and get him as a cast member on the reality show version of Orange is the New Black as quickly as possible.

    There are lies, damn lies, and statistics but they all pale in comparison to conservative talking points.

    by ontheleftcoast on Fri Jan 24, 2014 at 08:52:34 PM PST

  •  Keeping up with the Joneses... (0+ / 0-)

    I'd suggest you try it.  It's risky, but otherwise you might end up where I am.  No way do you want that.   Well, maybe I'll be all right after all.  But all of it is always risky.

    I don't know.  Either way, you may find a way to say what need to be said to change, to save this profoundly sick society.

    See my state of the union message here:

    I may need multiple aliases...(0+ / 0-)

    ...for what I need to say now.  I just posted this to an e-mail query asking folks to make our own statements on the "State of the Union."  I wrote:

    "The state of this union is totally frogked. Thank goodness. The evil empire is going down because we refuse to learn respect, kindness, sharing, generosity -- the things the native Americans attempted to show us as we mowed them down in massacre after massacre. Since my waisichu brothers and sisters have refused to learn, we deserve death, extinction from all the evolutionary catastrophes we, in our ignorance, have created."

    The only thing needed for evil to succeed is for good people to do nothing." Hannah Arendt, German-Jewish holocaust survivor, philosopher, historian.

    by dharmasyd on Fri Jan 24, 2014 at 08:52:45 PM PST

  •  The worst thing about democracy (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dharmasyd, Jeff Y, Aunt Pat, Ender

    appears to be that nothing gets people to the polls more often than paranoia. It's made the Republicans and their ilk wonderfully wealthy.

    After 65 years, the ONLY thing I know absolutely and positively about life is that the check is SUPPOSED to be in the mail. That's it. Nothing else. PERIOD.

    by franklyn on Fri Jan 24, 2014 at 08:53:14 PM PST

    •  Paranoia of "the other" and anger (6+ / 0-)

      Republicans never run on what the have to offer America because 'fuck off and die, nasty peasants' doesn't poll test very well.

      The sad part isn't that they do it every election, it's that the same group of low IQ mental midgets (the Republican base) buy it hook, line and sinker every election.

      “I would like to get rid of the homophobes, sexists, and racists in our audience. I know they're out there and it really bothers me.” ― Kurt Cobain

      by Jeff Y on Fri Jan 24, 2014 at 09:05:05 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Full Stop Face Palm. (5+ / 0-)

      "Democracy" is a huge sweeping concept.

      USA failing is almost a negligibly small point on the data curve of democracies.

      To begin with no modern civilized democracy uses our system, and we preceded all of them except Britain's. They don't use our system either.

      The USA is in no way representative of the concept of "democracy."

      We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

      by Gooserock on Fri Jan 24, 2014 at 09:28:47 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Paranoia-- combined with Bigotry (0+ / 0-)

      "All those lazy black and brown skinned people are stealing our hard earned money!" (welfare).

      "It is essential that there should be organization of Labor. Capital organizes & therefore Labor must organize" Theodore Roosevelt

      by Superpole on Sat Jan 25, 2014 at 02:51:41 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Debt (7+ / 0-)

    The "keeping up with the Jones'" theory is that people borrow to pay for stuff, but as Doug Henwood at the excellent Left Business Observer showed, the only thing we're spending more on (as a percentage of GDP) is health care:

    Consumption binge?

    ... the consumption share of GDP and the long slide in our savings rate is telling us something. American consumers aren’t the profligates of legend, but that our health care system certainly is.

    When you look at the graph of personal savings rate the peak year is right about the time the usury laws were done in (by allowing banks to charge any interest rate that was allowed in the bank's home state, and states like South Dakota and Delaware had done away with caps).

    So I put the blame on a combination of the con game that is the credit card industry, and the soaring cost of health care...

  •  I'll second that (5+ / 0-)

    Have A great weekend!

    Ours is going to be awesome. Get to see some Kossacks in person!

    DKos Asheville Meet up!


    Libertarianism is something that most people grow out of, not unlike, say, hay fever or asthma. Bob Johnson

    by randallt on Fri Jan 24, 2014 at 08:58:40 PM PST

  •  The argument presented has a huge hole in it (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Aunt Pat

    I say it is more likely that a keeping up with the Joneses effect will occur when there is less inequality. Much easier to emulate your slightly better off neighbors that you can relate to and feel just out of reach than the guy who has a car for every member of the family with one to spare, a vacation home, and two boats.

    There is truth on all sides. The question is how much.

    by slothlax on Fri Jan 24, 2014 at 09:31:02 PM PST

  •  Tell me please, Meteor Blades (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RainyDay, Aunt Pat, Eric Nelson, OLinda, jbsoul

    how you stay sane and strong with the knowledge and sensitivity that you have of the state of the world and humanity.

    'A civilization flourishes when people plant trees under whose shade they will never sit' Greek Proverb

    by janis b on Fri Jan 24, 2014 at 09:33:56 PM PST

    •  Because I see, every day, good people... (12+ / 0-)

      ...helping others, supporting equality and other progressive value, living good lives and working to see that others can do the same.

      Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

      by Meteor Blades on Fri Jan 24, 2014 at 09:45:57 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I just received your response, (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        WakeUpNeo, jbsoul, Meteor Blades

        after having posed my question to you just minutes before my new neighbors arrived for dinner. Interestingly, my experience with them confirmed just what you said in your reply. We shared a mutual and genuine exchange of heartfelt responses to 'life' in general, and it felt very satisfying to meet from the heart, as these experiences, when we have them, always do. It affirms my trust and confidence in the potential of human relations, and by extension, all else. I guess we all need ongoing experiences/interactions of this nature to sustain our belief in the potential of what is good.

        'A civilization flourishes when people plant trees under whose shade they will never sit' Greek Proverb

        by janis b on Sat Jan 25, 2014 at 12:57:39 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Greatest kiss in film history? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Aunt Pat, noweasels, OLinda

    Rhett Butler and Scarlet O'Hara

    Captain Kirk and Lt. Uhuru

    Michael and Fredo

    After 65 years, the ONLY thing I know absolutely and positively about life is that the check is SUPPOSED to be in the mail. That's it. Nothing else. PERIOD.

    by franklyn on Fri Jan 24, 2014 at 09:46:26 PM PST

  •  "Predatory lending in poor areas" (8+ / 0-)

    ..Sell to people who have the least financial and political voice to fight back it sounds like to me.

    In 2009  of Matt Taibbi wrote about securities fraud. From page 4 of The Great American Bubble Machine

    Goldman, who created vehicles to package those shitty mortgages and sell them en masse to unsuspecting insurance companies and pension funds.

    Goldman used two methods to hide the mess they were selling. First, they bundled hundreds of different mortgages into instruments called Collateralized Debt Obligations.

    So it was not homeowners deliberately going out on a spending spree as the republicans accuse lower wage worker/homeowners of doing. These folks were targeted as the "marks" for a securities fraud scheme that was deliberate short term - in & out rip-off

    However, our risk bias in that market was to be short, and that net short position was profitable." In other words, the mortgages it was selling were for chumps. The real money was in betting against those same mortgages.

    "That's how audacious these assholes are," says one hedge fund manager. "At least with other banks, you could say that they were just dumb — they believed what they were selling, and it blew them up. Goldman knew what it was doing."

    I ask the manager how it could be that selling something to customers that you're actually betting against — particularly when you know more about the weaknesses of those products than the customer — doesn't amount to securities fraud.

    "It's exactly securities fraud," he says. "It's the heart of securities fraud."

     - emphasis added

    Thx MB
    •  The Banksters Simply Exploited Human Nature (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      WakeUpNeo, JeffW, Eric Nelson

      Look, a big part of the scam was the easing of the requirements to get huge loans by the banksters-- the zero money down, "ninja" loans, balloon rate loans to, eventually, anyone who could write their name on the loan app.

      "you don't have a job? or-- your income level is $35,000 per year? NO PROBLEM! you still qualify for a $600,000 mortgage for your dream home using our new loan rules!"

      just sign the app here...

      it's wayyy more about word getting around to people who could never in the past qualify for this type of loan, than it is "keeping up with the Joneses".

      the mortgage brokers like Countrywide were doing this to generate the paper for the big boys like Goldman Sucks who were bundling these "AAA rated loans" into the CDO's they then sold to unsuspecting investors.

      are the banksters making $500,000 loans to people with $35,000 per year income now? Of course not, and these loans should have never been made back in the early part of the 2,000's.

      Now, people who DO have income and collateral can't even get a small business loan to start/grow their business.

      FAIL.

      "It is essential that there should be organization of Labor. Capital organizes & therefore Labor must organize" Theodore Roosevelt

      by Superpole on Sat Jan 25, 2014 at 03:08:48 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  MB history lessons beckon.... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    NonnyO, WakeUpNeo

    Move Single Payer Forward? Join 18,000 Doctors of PNHP and 185,000 member National Nurses United

    by divineorder on Fri Jan 24, 2014 at 10:20:26 PM PST

  •  Penguin Process Server (7+ / 0-)

    FAR too busy . . .

    2014 photo busy_zps64bdf252.gif

    Praying tonight for all those abandoned in the cold, including our friends, the animals.

    Be sure you put your feet in the right place; then stand firm. ~ Abraham Lincoln

    by noweasels on Fri Jan 24, 2014 at 10:26:15 PM PST

  •  Is there anyway to have a soundtrack playing (0+ / 0-)

    over the top of our comments/diaries in real time?

    Imagine.

    After 65 years, the ONLY thing I know absolutely and positively about life is that the check is SUPPOSED to be in the mail. That's it. Nothing else. PERIOD.

    by franklyn on Fri Jan 24, 2014 at 10:27:57 PM PST

  •  Trickle down economics (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Calamity Jean

    You give more money to the rich business owners s that they can produce more products.

    The lower and middle class consumers will find money, somewhere.

    That is the theory in a nutshell.

    Where do they find the money?

    By going into debt.

    I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate.

    by Ender on Fri Jan 24, 2014 at 10:32:47 PM PST

    •  Sorry.The official name is "supply-side economics" (0+ / 0-)

      I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate.

      by Ender on Fri Jan 24, 2014 at 10:35:27 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Except Now, if you DON'T have a job (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Calamity Jean

      and have fallen behind on your CC payments, or totally stopped making payments-- you're obviously NOT going to be able to get additional credit cards to run debt up on.

      "It is essential that there should be organization of Labor. Capital organizes & therefore Labor must organize" Theodore Roosevelt

      by Superpole on Sat Jan 25, 2014 at 03:11:43 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Ya know (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    eeff, Arianna Editrix, NonnyO, JeffW

    There are BETTER things than keeping up with the Joneses . . . there are friends, community, joy, doing something important for the world, a glass of wine with friends, cuddling a new baby, dogs . . . all of this, always, is easier with no financial worries  . . . and NO ONE in this richest of countries should have to be worried about food or shelter or going to the doctor . . . but after we are able to meet these basic needs (and WE CAN, if we work together) then maybe everyone can more fully enjoy everything else.

    Be sure you put your feet in the right place; then stand firm. ~ Abraham Lincoln

    by noweasels on Fri Jan 24, 2014 at 10:39:46 PM PST

  •  water news..... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    714day, NonnyO, WakeUpNeo, jbsoul

    Perry Nuclear Plant has tritium leak

    http://www.power-eng.com/...

    EPA will miss deadline on fish protection rule for
    cooling water intake structures for power plants....
    ....a very pertinent issue in the Great Lakes basin:

    http://www.power-eng.com/...

  •  appendicitis (12+ / 0-)

    I woke up in the recovery room @  11:15 pm wondering where i was.
    i just managed to get out of bed to go to the bathroom
    I hope i can leave tomorrow morning.

  •  Well that was cool. (4+ / 0-)

    Got to attend a speakers event at UCLA featuring reddit co-founder Alexis Ohanian, along with special guest Ezra Klein, who just finished his last day working for the Washington Post today.

  •  Areas with high inequality... (0+ / 0-)

    ...don't necessarily have the rich and poor living near each other.  People compare themselves to their neighbors.  If their neighbors in the slum are all dirt poor, there's not much you have to do to keep up.

    If you're around middle class neighbors in places with lower inequality, then there's a lot more pressure.

    I'd say it is keeping up with the Joneses still.

    •  NOPE (0+ / 0-)

      you can't "keep up with the Joneses:" when your income level does not match, or grow as the Jones' does.

      this is in fact what the predatory mortgage brokers like Countrywide exploited so well.

      Look at the recent economic studies coming out which indicate if you are born poor, to poor parents or to a poor one parent household, the probability you are going to make it to a much higher level of income is small.

      offering lower level income, or NO income people $500,000 balloon mortgages was insane-- but that is exactly what happened.

      "It is essential that there should be organization of Labor. Capital organizes & therefore Labor must organize" Theodore Roosevelt

      by Superpole on Sat Jan 25, 2014 at 03:22:48 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Largest wind farm in the world viewed from (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    NonnyO, WakeUpNeo, JeffW

    space, courtesy of NASA Earth Observatory:

    http://www.power-eng.com/...

    •  What a magnificent and (0+ / 0-)
      Largest wind farm in the world....
      inspirational sight!  The text with the picture says that it's being expanded from its current 40 square miles to 95 square miles.  

      "My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." -- Sen Carl Schurz 1872

      by Calamity Jean on Sat Jan 25, 2014 at 07:30:05 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  The Joneses live next door. (4+ / 0-)

    They have this terrible habit of getting up at 6AM and going for a quick 5 mile run. I have no intention of trying to keep up with the Joneses.


    If my life was really that important someone would have made it into a musical by now.

    by glb3 on Fri Jan 24, 2014 at 11:47:16 PM PST

  •  The Only Joneses I know live in Dubai nj (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    NonnyO, WakeUpNeo, JeffW

    It's my niece and she makes more money than God!

    And I still laugh about the time some folks from the neighborhood where I do social justice work came over to my house.  

    "Wow (as they look at other houses on my street) your house must be huge!"  
    "This one?"
    "Seriously?"
    "Nice couch, where'd you get it?" "Thrift store?" "No shit?"
    "Nice TV"

    ME: Yes, we got that one 3 years ago when lightning hit the house.
    "How many other TV's you got?"
    ME: Just the one.
    "How many computers you got?"
    ME: Just one desktop, got that from the lightning too.  T has a laptop.  Got it from his gran for graduation 2yrs ago.
    "Where's your sound system?"
    ME: Kid got one at the thrift store, I don't have one.
    "And you only have the one car?"
    ME: Yep, can't drive two at the same time!
    WTF Ms. Ari........you're POOR!  We have more swag than you!
    ME: Yep, pretty much. But I have friends

    ~Arianna_Editrix-- I willingly accept Cassandra’s fate, To speak the truth, altho’ believ’d too late

    by Arianna Editrix on Fri Jan 24, 2014 at 11:55:51 PM PST

  •  A spoonful of good news for CA. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    WakeUpNeo, JeffW, Calamity Jean
    Gunmakers Smith & Wesson, Sturm Ruger refuse to sell their products in California

    Nuclear Reactor = Dirty Bomb

    by olo on Sat Jan 25, 2014 at 12:05:12 AM PST

  •  GW Bush: "Don't forget Poland!" (0+ / 0-)

    The depth of my disgust knowing politicians of both parties condone this knows no bounds.

    Inside the CIA's Secret Polish Torture Site
    By Danielle Wiener-Bronner, 24 January 2014
    [More at link, of course.]
    A new report by The Washington Post digs deep into one of the CIA's most important "black sites," a two-story villa in a Polish forest where alleged terrorists were detained and tortured in the years after September 11. The Post interviewed former officials who described how the secret prison facility was found and the types of things that went on there, including a mock execution, water-boarding and other extreme interrogation techniques that ultimately led to the firing of two top CIA officials.

    The CIA purchased the prison, code-named "Quartz," from the Polish intelligence service for $15 million in early 2003, after using the facility to question alleged al-Qaeda operatives for weeks. It was selected after prisons in Thailand and Cambodia proved to be unusable. The Cambodian site was full of snakes, and the Thai location was "just a chicken coop we remodeled," according to one former official.

    By 2002, the CIA had captured and detained Zayn al-Abidin Muhammed Hussein, also known as Abu Zubaida, and Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri, both suspected of close ties with al-Qaeda leadership. Not wanting to bring them back to the U.S. (and its pesky civil rights laws) the CIA reached out to foreign ministries, hoping that one would come through with a site that could accommodate more detainees, and was pleased to hear back from Poland.

    I'm sick of attempts to steer this nation from principles evolved in The Age of Reason to hallucinations derived from illiterate herdsmen. ~ Crashing Vor

    by NonnyO on Sat Jan 25, 2014 at 01:53:13 AM PST

  •  Maybe the 1 percenters and the baggers are hoping (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Arianna Editrix, jbsoul

    we have short memories.

    I recall the following during the various "Busts",

    1. Fraudulent mortgages where people were mislead and sold too much mortgage for their income, and later crushed by balloon rates. The word you are looking for is commissions.

    2. Exorbitant health care costs. Many Americans have discovered over the years that they were just one catastrophic injury or illness away from bankruptcy and the loss of everything they worked for in their entire lives.

    3. Looting of pensions, and retirements: See Enron, Detroit, now military retirements, other government workers who have had their contracts altered or just not honored. See also recent account of BP employees and their retirement woes.

    4. The rise of the college degree as the new High School Diploma as "job security." It really isn't that secure, but it's absolutely necessary in many cases to make one employable at places that pay slightly above min wage, except for internships, which one was expected to do for free.

    5. The rising cost of tuition for said college education, leaving the avg student with a debt at about 34,000 dollars, depending on the kind of degree they pursued, 3 times that in some cases.

    6. The Cost of Gasoline hovering at about 3.00 a gallon, sometimes up to 5 dollars a gallon.

    7. The cost of propane spiking every fall and winter.

    8. Super Storm Sandy, Tornado Outbreaks, Wildfires, injection well quakes, that eat whole neighborhoods and more, floods, etc., raising already high rates on home insurance.

    I know I will be flogged for paying attention, but I just had to share.

    Gentlemen, congratulations. You're everything we've come to expect from years of government training (Zed, MIB).

    by GreenMother on Sat Jan 25, 2014 at 04:13:12 AM PST

  •  Hey Brian.....it's dawn.......g'night all! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Ender

    ~Arianna_Editrix-- I willingly accept Cassandra’s fate, To speak the truth, altho’ believ’d too late

    by Arianna Editrix on Sat Jan 25, 2014 at 04:36:41 AM PST

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