Skip to main content

A group of men hold signs at Hance Park as they protest against Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) in Phoenix, Arizona October 14, 2013. REUTERS/Joshua Lott
They wish Obama didn't enforce immigration laws!
Newsmax, conservative website:
Obama is facing mounting pressure from immigration advocates to halt deportations, which are on pace to soon top the 2 million mark during his tenure. That’s more than the George W. Bush administration deported in its entire eight years.
Commenter:
We already have laws for border security and illegal immigration. They are ignored. We don't need more laws. We need proof that they will be enforced.
What leads one to read a story which notes that Obama has deported more undocumented immigrants than even Bush during his entire term, and then respond with "the laws are being ignored!"? And this isn't a simple nutpick. That commenter reflects the mass of the conservative base and their tea party patrons in Congress. They say that they can't pass reform because Obama "ignores the law", even as millions of deportations take place in broad daylight.

So what is it? Blinders? Willful ignorance? Rank stupidity? Ideological dishonesty?

Originally posted to kos on Tue Jan 28, 2014 at 11:30 AM PST.

Also republished by Daily Kos.

EMAIL TO A FRIEND X
Your Email has been sent.
You must add at least one tag to this diary before publishing it.

Add keywords that describe this diary. Separate multiple keywords with commas.
Tagging tips - Search For Tags - Browse For Tags

?

More Tagging tips:

A tag is a way to search for this diary. If someone is searching for "Barack Obama," is this a diary they'd be trying to find?

Use a person's full name, without any title. Senator Obama may become President Obama, and Michelle Obama might run for office.

If your diary covers an election or elected official, use election tags, which are generally the state abbreviation followed by the office. CA-01 is the first district House seat. CA-Sen covers both senate races. NY-GOV covers the New York governor's race.

Tags do not compound: that is, "education reform" is a completely different tag from "education". A tag like "reform" alone is probably not meaningful.

Consider if one or more of these tags fits your diary: Civil Rights, Community, Congress, Culture, Economy, Education, Elections, Energy, Environment, Health Care, International, Labor, Law, Media, Meta, National Security, Science, Transportation, or White House. If your diary is specific to a state, consider adding the state (California, Texas, etc). Keep in mind, though, that there are many wonderful and important diaries that don't fit in any of these tags. Don't worry if yours doesn't.

You can add a private note to this diary when hotlisting it:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from your hotlist?
Are you sure you want to remove your recommendation? You can only recommend a diary once, so you will not be able to re-recommend it afterwards.
Rescue this diary, and add a note:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from Rescue?
Choose where to republish this diary. The diary will be added to the queue for that group. Publish it from the queue to make it appear.

You must be a member of a group to use this feature.

Add a quick update to your diary without changing the diary itself:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary?
(The diary will be removed from the site and returned to your drafts for further editing.)
(The diary will be removed.)
Are you sure you want to save these changes to the published diary?

Comment Preferences

  •  He's only deporting the ones who refused to (10+ / 0-)

    vote for him /RWNJ

    With our poor economy, the influx of illegal immigration has slowed to a trickle. NOW is the time to act if you're truly concerned about "rewarding" people for crossing just to get citizenship.

    And if you want a long term solution, it's
    1) High quality, hard to forge ID cards combined with
    2) Fines on those who hire people without (1) serious enough to matter

    No jobs, no one sneaks across the border.

    While I'm at it:
    3) Raise the penalties for enslaving someone to life in prison, no parole, 100% of assets confiscated including anything you may have contributed to a trust. Far too many illegal immigrants wind up as slaves.

    I'm on a mission! http://www.dailykos.com/comments/1233352/51142428#c520 Testing the new site rules.

    by blue aardvark on Tue Jan 28, 2014 at 11:37:40 AM PST

    •  Slavery isn't a sliding scale (3+ / 0-)

      It's knowingly and repeatedly committing a human rights violation. There's no "accidental" slavery. Agree that the penalty should be extreme.

      I'm living in America, and in America you're on your own. America's not a country. It's just a business.

      by CFAmick on Tue Jan 28, 2014 at 12:12:14 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Yes, but even better (3+ / 0-)

      would be to do everything that we can to raise up the stability and standard of living in Mexico.

      If people can make a good living there, they won't need to come here for it. Our wealth is like a vacuum that pulls people here.

      Mexico is rich in resources and there is no reason why it can be a reasonably rich country. Governmnt corruption is their biggest problem. Ending the crazy War on Drugs would help that a lot.

      "If you lose your sense of humor, it's just not funny anymore" Wavy Gravy

      by offgrid on Tue Jan 28, 2014 at 12:58:35 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Mexico is only the largest source of (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Mr MadAsHell, offgrid, chrismorgan

        undocumented workers.

        Were Mexicans not filling those jobs, you would likely see more Chinese (look up "snakeheads"), Haitians, Guatemalans, Irish, and what have you.

        That's not to say your goals are not laudable, but (1) They are outside our direct control (NAFTA was supposed to help this, remember?) and (2) more difficult than quality ID cards coupled with heavy fines on scofflaws.

        I'm on a mission! http://www.dailykos.com/comments/1233352/51142428#c520 Testing the new site rules.

        by blue aardvark on Tue Jan 28, 2014 at 01:06:51 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  NAFTA did the exact opposite, and is a major cause (4+ / 0-)

          of the huge wave of illegal immigration that followed the implementation of that horrible trade agreement.

          Not horrible for the huge agribusinesses of course. They did just fine, as they always do with "free trade" agreements.

          But Mexican campesinos -- family farmers? Not so much:

          ... Mexican farmers who grow corn, beans and wheat for food and some extra cash are among those hit hardest by NAFTA because they can't compete with large U.S. grain producers who are government-subsidized.

          NAFTA also has forced farming families to develop a survival strategy, which includes sending one or two family members to the city or to the United States...

          "We can either have democracy in this country or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few. But we can't have both." - Justice Louis Brandeis

          by flitedocnm on Tue Jan 28, 2014 at 01:58:23 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  There are lots of excellent resources documenting (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            offgrid, blue aardvark, hooper, smartalek

            the horrendous effects of NAFTA on Mexican workers. Here's another that goes into detail, and is really excellent:

            NAFTA Treaty: Death Trap for Mexico's Campesinos

            So, what's the best way to help fix illegal immigration? Fix NAFTA -- get rid of the reason that so many desperate Mexican men have left their homeland in order to feed their families.

            (Now, imagine what the effects of the TPP might be: NAFTA On Steroids)

            "We can either have democracy in this country or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few. But we can't have both." - Justice Louis Brandeis

            by flitedocnm on Tue Jan 28, 2014 at 02:06:53 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  not quite . . . . (0+ / 0-)

            NAFTA did create a thriving maquiladora sector in northern Mexico, giving thousands of people there jobs and lifting them out of poverty.

            Alas, once China opened as a low-wage haven, most of the owners of those maquiladora factories pulled them out of Mexico and moved them to China instead, leaving much of northern Mexico a ghost town with abandoned rusting factories dotting the landscape.

            In China, those factories in turn pulled hundreds of thousands of Chinese out of poverty.  And now those jobs are leaving China too--going to the new low-wage havens in Indonesia.

            In the end, reality always wins.

            by Lenny Flank on Tue Jan 28, 2014 at 02:14:48 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  The maquiladora zones were no picnics.... (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              offgrid, flitedocnm, smartalek

              guards with machine guns, female workers forced to take a birth control pill upon entrance, multi-day shifts, brutal union suppression, etc.

              Basically "no-rights zones" so American corporations could offer terrible jobs to impoverished Mexicans thrown off their farms by NAFTA's opening the gates to subsidized American corn exports.

              And the not-unexpected consequence was illegal immigration to the US, and a militarized border.

              •  China's not exactly a human rights paradise either (0+ / 0-)

                But people WITH jobs are better off than people WITHOUT them.

                If you doubt that, ask the people remaining in the maquiladora ghost towns which they'd prefer.

                In the end, reality always wins.

                by Lenny Flank on Tue Jan 28, 2014 at 04:19:43 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  They'd prefer to be back on their family farms, (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  smartalek, hooper

                  not working as what are essentially slaves, for foreign owners. Saying that the maquiladoras were a more than acceptable trade-off for the destruction of generations of Mexican family farms is utter b.s. -- I'd love to see you quote some good references, preferably from Mexico, and preferably not mouthpieces for the elite, to back up your apparent contention to the contrary.

                  If the question is maquiladoras versus even more abject poverty and starvation, then of course the people would rather be working in the maquiladoras. But that's not the question here, is it? In fact, it's a straw man. The issue is the harm caused to rural Mexicans by NAFTA, and the net effect for that entire country -- not just the wealthy multinationals. And, the downstream effect on illegal immigration.

                  BTW, I've visited small Mexican farming communities that were devastated by NAFTA, and spoken with the people there. Have you?

                  "We can either have democracy in this country or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few. But we can't have both." - Justice Louis Brandeis

                  by flitedocnm on Tue Jan 28, 2014 at 04:43:01 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  um, yes, that is EXACTLY the question (0+ / 0-)
                    If the question is maquiladoras versus even more abject poverty and starvation, then of course the people would rather be working in the maquiladoras. But that's not the question here, is it?
                    The reason people in the maquiladora have no jobs today is the same reason why we have no high-wage manufacturing jobs in the US today.  The jobs all went to China.

                    And the people who had those maquiladora jobs no more want to be back on their family farms than do the former GM and Bethlehem Steel workers in the US who lost all their high-wage jobs to China. Small farmers make shitty livings.  That's why in virtually every country, from Mexico to China, cities swell in population every year as people leave the countryside and move to cities for jobs.

                    Your Pancho Villa fantasies are touching and inspirational, but that world no longer exists.

                    In the end, reality always wins.

                    by Lenny Flank on Tue Jan 28, 2014 at 04:48:04 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Mexican farmers did not quit because they were (0+ / 0-)

                      making "shitty livings" before NAFTA, and the Indian farmers are not committing suicide because it's some great free trade opportunity.

                      •  why are Mexico City and New Delhi two of the (0+ / 0-)

                        largest cities in the world.

                        Mexican farmers DID make shitty livings before NAFTA, and they still do.  So do Indian farmers. That's why the Mexican and Indian countrysides were some of the most poverty-stricken areas in the world before NAFTA, and still are now. Which is why they are streaming to the cities.

                        Your ideological devotion to "the peasantry" is touching, even if it is 100 years out of date.

                        In the end, reality always wins.

                        by Lenny Flank on Wed Jan 29, 2014 at 07:30:24 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Ok, your disdain aside. Not sure where (0+ / 0-)

                          you're coming from.  NAFTA was great?  We need more free trade?

                          •  don't be silly (0+ / 0-)

                            I was fighting NAFTA back when the Democrats were passing it, way back in 1992.

                            I was also fighting WTO back when the Democrats were passing it, back in 1994.

                            But the brutal reality is that "free trade" benefits anyone where the wages are lowest. At first, that was Mexico--thousands of high-paying jobs from the US went to the maquiladora, lifting thousands of Mexicans out of poverty.  That is not a matter of "I like it" or "I don't like it"--it is a simple fact.

                            Then, just a few years later, NAFTA or no NAFTA, China became the new low-wage haven, the jobs left the maquiladora for China (just as they had previously left the US for Mexico), and the maquiladora became a ghost town of poverty again as all the jobs left. Now, it was millions of Chinese who were lifted out of poverty by all those jobs flooding in--millions of Chinese who left their poverty-ridden rural farmlands and flooded into the cities for those jobs.  Just like people did in Mexico. Again, that is not a matter of "I like it" or "I don't like it"--it is a simple matter of fact. That is what happened.

                            Today, Indonesia is becoming the new low-wage haven, and millions of Chinese jobs are now leaving for Indonesia. The Chinese factories, Chinese workers are losing their jobs, and Indonesians are being lifted out of poverty by flooding from the impoverished agricultural countryside into the cities for those jobs. And once more, that is not a matter of "I like it" or "I don't like it"--that is what is happening.

                            See a pattern here?

                            Whether the flow of jobs is "good" or "bad" depends on which end you are on.

                            That is simply the reality of it.

                            Those of us who have been in the labor movement for a long time know what this is---it's called "whipsawing".  We also know how to fight it--by equalizing the wages EVERYWHERE so the corporados no longer are able to chase the low wages.

                            But nobody in the US is interested in that. What we want is OUR good-paying jobs back--and fuck everyone else.

                            ANd as long as we keep thinking that, the corporados will continue to stomp all over us.

                            Solidarity, wins.  And in a global economy (and we have a global economy, whether we like it or not), GLOBAL solidarity wins.

                            Anything less than that, loses.

                            In the end, reality always wins.

                            by Lenny Flank on Wed Jan 29, 2014 at 09:23:23 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  ps--if you really want to see where Im coming from (0+ / 0-)

                            then I humbly recommend this diary series:

                            http://www.dailykos.com/...

                            particularly the last five chapters.

                            In the end, reality always wins.

                            by Lenny Flank on Wed Jan 29, 2014 at 09:26:32 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

        •  All true of course. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          blue aardvark, smartalek

          But I never see the issue of wealth equality between countries raised in any discussion of immigration "reform", and it should be.

          A world minimum wage, world-wide enviromnmental and labor laws, etc, are the only way to really address this issue.

          "You may call me a dreamer...but I'm not the only one".

          We at least need to raise these issues, and not just accept that they are impossible to obtain.

          "If you lose your sense of humor, it's just not funny anymore" Wavy Gravy

          by offgrid on Tue Jan 28, 2014 at 02:08:51 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  A global minimum wage? (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            wishingwell, offgrid

            Interesting ... but wow, the implementation details are giving me a headache.

            I'm on a mission! http://www.dailykos.com/comments/1233352/51142428#c520 Testing the new site rules.

            by blue aardvark on Tue Jan 28, 2014 at 02:12:36 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  impossible (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              blue aardvark

              Every country has different living standards. As a reminder, even in many developed OECD countries in Central Europe, when people there hear that American workers are protesting due to $8 wages, they think "WTF are these Americans protesting due to such great wages"?

              •  Not impossible (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                smartalek

                If you use the US as a model for world government, where you have separate States (countries) and a central federation (federal government, but more than the UN), you can see that we already have that model.

                While States can certainly set their own minimum wage, and they mostly do, they still can't be below the national minimum.

                $7.25/hour certainly goes a longer way in Alabama or the Midwest than it does in NYC or San Francisco, if you want to look at different living standards. But we still have a model for a broad-based minimum wage.

                "If you lose your sense of humor, it's just not funny anymore" Wavy Gravy

                by offgrid on Tue Jan 28, 2014 at 04:07:10 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  pretty extreme comparison (0+ / 0-)

                  In the U.S., states differ in their development, but all have universal literacy, paved roads, a common federal tax code, SS/Medicare, federal laws regulating the market. The same can't nearly be said of the world.

                  Even the EU, which has a common market (including free immigration), and extensive economic regulations doesn't have anything close to a common minimum wage. For instance Germany recently introduced a minimum wage around $11, while Poland's government is considering a minimum wage of close to $3.

              •  and yet we have a minimum wage law in the US (0+ / 0-)

                despite the sometimes immense differences in living standards from state to state and city to city (compare the cost of living in San Francisco with, say, Dayton, Ohio.

                In the end, reality always wins.

                by Lenny Flank on Tue Jan 28, 2014 at 04:23:08 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

            •  Not that hard. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              blue aardvark, offgrid

              Of course, it could only be enforced through tariffs, and that's a dirty word.

              Politics means controlling the balance of economic and institutional power. Everything else is naming post offices.

              by happymisanthropy on Tue Jan 28, 2014 at 02:41:56 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

          •  there is already a "fair trade" movement to do (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            benamery21, offgrid, smartalek

            precisely that.

            The reasoning is that since the WTO and global free trade is a fact of life and won't go away anytime soon (we lost that fight 20 years ago), the next best thing is to form a global movement to grab control of the WTO treaty and use it to impose a progressive agenda, by forcing it to include global regulations that every corporado in every country must follow--things like minimum wages, union organizing rights, environmental protections, workplace safety requirements, and product safety regulations.

            Candidate Obama supported those goals.  President Obama has not.

             

            In the end, reality always wins.

            by Lenny Flank on Tue Jan 28, 2014 at 02:18:52 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  How shocking! (0+ / 0-)

              Seriously, thank you for reminding me of this.
              I was just thinking today of how horrific it is to see so many fundamental betrayals from the same man who thrilled me by mentioning Stonewall along with Selma and Seneca Falls in his second inaugural, and who dares to address the issue of rising inequality, even as some of his team's choices have fostered it?
              Can one be radically ambivalent?
              Severely equivocal?

    •  Fines are insufficient; *jail time* for... (0+ / 0-)

      ...the individual "decisionmakers" involved.
      Let "corporate personhood" have some meaning here.
      I guarantee the problem would cease within months of the first Fortune 500 exec's perp-walk.
      And the beauty of it is, the teabeggars would go crazy trying to figure out how to be against it.

  •  they heard someone speaking spanish (15+ / 0-)

    clearly, the system is broken.

    The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

    by Laurence Lewis on Tue Jan 28, 2014 at 11:38:50 AM PST

  •  CogDis, to the max. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    avsp, KayCeSF, smartalek

    “Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.”

    If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

    by CwV on Tue Jan 28, 2014 at 11:40:49 AM PST

  •  The only constant in Gooperville is...'Obama Sux' (8+ / 0-)

    Everything else is fantasy.

  •  GOP false consciousness: denial is a river (8+ / 0-)
    They say that they can't pass reform because Obama "ignores the law", even as millions of deportations take place in broad daylight.
    So what is it? Blinders? Willful ignorance? Rank stupidity? Ideological dishonesty?

    Warning - some snark may be above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 "I’m not the strapping young Muslim socialist that I used to be" - Barack Obama 04/27/2013

    by annieli on Tue Jan 28, 2014 at 11:46:00 AM PST

  •  ideological incoherence (8+ / 0-)

    it's the last phase of a psychiatric illness.

    the GOP is showing the signs of group psychosis.

  •  It reflects the inescapable fact that (9+ / 0-)

    the 'conservative/teabag/republican' ideology is a mish-mash of contradictory delusional ideas, all coexisting side-by-side and recombined in various feel-good but delusional manners.

    To use Vonnegut, it is a Chronosynclastic Infidibulum" wherein they can hold two totally opposing views of something with BOTH divorced from actual reality.

    Their utter racism isn't helping, either.

    Legal means "good".
    [41984 | Feb 4, 2005]

    by xxdr zombiexx on Tue Jan 28, 2014 at 11:55:24 AM PST

    •  It's a combination of economic policies (0+ / 0-)

      that benefit eight figure capital structures and penalize people, and a few billionaires' personal opinions.

      I'm living in America, and in America you're on your own. America's not a country. It's just a business.

      by CFAmick on Tue Jan 28, 2014 at 12:15:08 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  yes yes yes, and yes. Oh, and they're dicks. (8+ / 0-)

    That's another reason.

    Please know I am not rude. I cannot rec anything from this browser. When I rec or post diaries I am a guest at some exotic locale's computer. Ayn is the bane!

    by Floyd Blue on Tue Jan 28, 2014 at 11:55:50 AM PST

  •  Deportation procedures are under way ... (0+ / 0-)

    to send undocumented descendants of the Founding Fathers back to their prospective European countries.
    Tea Party Republicans are up in arms, (includes 2nd amendment arms) insisting that the government provide a fast track to citizenship using a 'whites only' counter...now, get in line!


    I avoid slippery slopes and camel noses; the seemingly innocuous is a doorway to the undesirable.

    by glb3 on Tue Jan 28, 2014 at 11:58:16 AM PST

  •  The Rethugs are depraved (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wishingwell

    nosotros no somos estúpidos

    by a2nite on Tue Jan 28, 2014 at 12:15:11 PM PST

  •  We have a fair amount of incoherence on our side (5+ / 0-)

    too.  Witness the fact that we're deporting record numbers of non-criminal long-term residents of this country, many of whom are parents, siblings, or household members of citizens and visa holders, while claiming to support immigrant rights.

    Iron sharpens Iron. Normal is a dryer setting. STOP illegal immigration NOW! -- Make it LEGAL. If Corporations are People--Let's draft them.

    by benamery21 on Tue Jan 28, 2014 at 12:46:19 PM PST

    •  Ssshhhh (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SpecialKinFlag, TheMomCat

      must never point out where our side is dissonant.  This is a Yaybama zone.  The white zone is for loading and.unloading only.

      "It rubs the lotion on its skin" is not effective coalition building.

      by Nada Lemming on Tue Jan 28, 2014 at 01:48:57 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  fwiw, incoherence =/=nuance (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      indie17, smartalek

      As a party, i'll grant that a shorthand version comes across as 'yay', though we (as a party) acknowledge the increase in deportations. But as a member of that party, I have no sense of incoherence in deploring the increase, especially in tough economic times, while remembering and applauding the DREAM ACT move Obama recently made. I also applaud and welcome the tone with which Obama speaks about the undocumented when compared to the entirety of the Republican party.
      This is fundamentally different than the direct contradictions held by the gop on this and every other issue (like the Kenyan Muslim with the radical Christian preacher dichotomy).

      Last full month in which the average daily temperature did not exceed twentieth-century norms: 2/1985 - Harper's Index, 2/2013

      by kamarvt on Tue Jan 28, 2014 at 02:09:49 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Your positions are consistent (0+ / 0-)

        Obama's are not.  He has repeatedly made noises about not deporting non-criminals while continuing to set records for doing so, wreaking destruction on families and communities.

        Incidentally there are, unfortunately, lots of Democrats who are not as supportive of immigrants, even some in this thread.

        Iron sharpens Iron. Normal is a dryer setting. STOP illegal immigration NOW! -- Make it LEGAL. If Corporations are People--Let's draft them.

        by benamery21 on Tue Jan 28, 2014 at 02:15:38 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Many of us support immigration and immigrants... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          benamery21

          ...while recognizing that, even aside from the obscene exploitation of their illegal status, the influx of large numbers of low-skill and un-skilled workers does disrupt labor markets, lowering pay scales and opportunities, and imposing major costs on the host communities.
          If we really believe, as I do, that immigration is a net positive for the economy overall, it behooves us to mitigate the negative local effects, by, at the very least, visibly and generously federally subsidizing the healthcare, educational, social-service, and law-enforcement costs borne by the states, counties, and.municipalities involved.
          How to help.citizens whose earnings are hit by the labor competition is a tougher nut, but one we must figure out how to crack.
          That we -- meaning the Democratic Party in particular and progressives in general -- have so far failed to do so is political malpractice of the highest order.
          It also makes a mockery of our assertions that teabeggars "vote against their own interests."
          On this issue -- and it's a huge one -- neither party has had their backs, and they know it.
          But at least the Pubbies pretend to be on their side, and the rhetoric matters.

    •  There's a big drive to push Obama (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      smartalek

      on taking more administrative actions that don't require congressional approval.  But you are right; DHS deports far more than any previous administration, and despite the rhetoric about targeting "criminal aliens", most of those who are deported have clean records. Part of the problem is that the private prison industry has managed to get Congress to mandate that DHS fill 30,000 beds at any one time.  Many GOP stars are connected to the private prison lobby - particularly including governors Christie  in NJ and Brewer in AZ. But the prison industry controls Congress too.

      My disgust for the GOP on this issue knows no limits, but we need to recognize that we are losing both in terms of messaging and substantive accomplishment. The President's popularity among Latinos has dropped 20% since he started his second term. The deportations continue.  The rhetoric on immigration reform comes to nothing because the GOP will divide comprehensive immigration reform into many small bills, insert poison pills, and deny the democrats a victory on immigration unless it is a bill with no due process protections and horrible provisions that will actually hurt us, politically.

      No... We need to confront the GOP directly on this.  I wish Kos was a little more willing to point out where we are failing on our side, because this is too important of an issue just to turn it into the usual GOP bashing.  We need to get together as a party, and the President needs to start using executive action to ameliorate harm in a very public way.

      “If the misery of the poor be caused not by the laws of nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin.” Charles Darwin

      by ivorybill on Tue Jan 28, 2014 at 03:22:03 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  erm. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Nadnerb in NC, wishingwell
    So what is it? Blinders? Willful ignorance? Rank stupidity? Ideological dishonesty?
    e. All of the Above.

    English usage is sometimes more than mere taste, judgment and education - sometimes it's sheer luck, like getting across the street. E. B. White

    by Youffraita on Tue Jan 28, 2014 at 01:37:00 PM PST

  •  Let's begin a list of things to be proud of (3+ / 0-)

    I start...

    More drone strikes than Bush.

    Victim of the system~Bob Marley

    by LaEscapee on Tue Jan 28, 2014 at 01:42:15 PM PST

  •  I'm more interested in WHY Obama is (4+ / 0-)

    deporting more Latinos than Dubya did . . . . .

    And why we progressives are not screaming our lungs out in protest of it, instead of cheering for it.

    It's a stupid, unworkable policy, and it needs to end.

    (And it does NOT need to be replaced by an equally stupid policy that gives the legal fiction of "amnesty" while forcing everyone to jump through decades of legal and economic hoops before they can even APPLY for citizenship.)

    In the end, reality always wins.

    by Lenny Flank on Tue Jan 28, 2014 at 01:58:19 PM PST

    •  Isn't border control (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      happymisanthropy

      and enforcement thereof needed unless you want to merge the US with Mexico? If you aren't calling for merging the two countries, what would be your policy for controlling and enforcing our border?

      •  oh puh-leeeeeze (0+ / 0-)

        Why is "border control" with Mexico any more a difficulty than "border control" with Canada.  Or Brazil.  Or China.

        We're not an armed camp.

        The two countries have already merged.  That's what NAFTA was for.  When "jobs" are free to move across the border, then workers MUST be free to move to the jobs. There is simply no way to prevent that (short of becoming an armed camp).

        In the end, reality always wins.

        by Lenny Flank on Tue Jan 28, 2014 at 02:43:13 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Maybe government under Obama (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      wishingwell

      Is simply more efficient than government under Bush.

    •  he needs to enforce the law (0+ / 0-)

      Obama cannot simply ignore immigration laws. Last year deportation  numbers dropped sharply, and even the reduced numbers include many people who were apprehended at the border and kicked out immediately, which isn't what we usually think of as a "deportation".

      •  unjust laws should be opposed, not enforced (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        smartalek

        I don't recall anyone here cheering Dubya when HE "enforced the law" . . . .

        Nor do I recall any of us cheering when Bull Connor was "enforcing the law" . . . .

        Apparently, stupidly blind partisanship goes both ways.

        In the end, reality always wins.

        by Lenny Flank on Tue Jan 28, 2014 at 02:45:47 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Are all immigration laws unjust? (0+ / 0-)

          If someone enters the country without authorization, is it unjust to deport him?

          •  seems I've wandered into RedState . . . . (0+ / 0-)

            How in hell do you propose we deport 12 million people . . . ?

            They are here.  They're not leaving, and we are not going to deport them all.

            So we have no choice at all but to integrate them into our society. Or shoot them.

            Which do you prefer?

            In the end, reality always wins.

            by Lenny Flank on Tue Jan 28, 2014 at 04:17:52 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I support immigration reform. (0+ / 0-)

              With a pathway to earned citizenship for the 11 million. At the same time, I believe that only Congress can do this, and Obama has a responsibility to uphold all laws, whether he likes them or not. What if a Republican president decided to stop enforcing federal gun laws?

              •  Agreed, but that clearly does not have to mean... (0+ / 0-)

                ...ramping up enforcement actions to levels higher than previous norms;
                especially in an era of austerity budgeting;
                even more so when there will be not just zero political benefit.from the parties and.interests who should support such.actions, but significant.potential.political costs from parties and.interests who should be strong allies and supporters;
                and finally, it's completely inconsistent with Obama's own rhetoric on the issue.
                It's really not rational, from any external perspective.
                Which means there are data we're not being given on where the real incentives and goals.lie, and who the real.interests are that are being.served.

                •  He wanted to be serious on border security. (0+ / 0-)

                  His reasoning was that if he increased the number of deportations, Congress would see that he treats securing the border seriously, and would agree to pass comprehensive immigration reform.

      •  So the cop who let you go with a warning (0+ / 0-)

        should be fired?

        Iron sharpens Iron. Normal is a dryer setting. STOP illegal immigration NOW! -- Make it LEGAL. If Corporations are People--Let's draft them.

        by benamery21 on Tue Jan 28, 2014 at 02:49:23 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Racism (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    KayCeSF, wishingwell

    So what is it? Blinders? Willful ignorance? Rank stupidity? Ideological dishonesty?

    Ted Cruz (R-Tx) America's Prick

    by jackandjill on Tue Jan 28, 2014 at 02:00:55 PM PST

  •  I used to say to my boss,.... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bananapouch1

    "I cannot speak Moron, but I have learned to interpret."

    Alas, the language spoken by conservatives is not Moron.

    I vote, Willful Ignorance.

    Here's an example, I troll one of these folks on HuffingtonPost.  No matter how many times I prove him wrong, he continues to says that tax revenue increased after the so-called Bush & Reagan tax cuts.  His only argument is that the figures from the CBO must be wrong.

    Another example was witnessed last evening on Chris Matthews with the fella' from AZ who led the charge calling John McCain a liberal.  According to that idiot, the ACA was passed in the dark of night without any debate....and John McCain is liberal.

    I change my mind, Rank Stupidity.....clearly nothing like understanding Moron.

    •  WWITM... (0+ / 0-)

      whatever works in the moment....

      It's really all about whatever they can use at that moment, to rail against Obama and the scary socialists...

      I heard that interview, I was literally screaming at the radio, "are you F*&(&!!!!! kidding me?!" One of the few times Chris Matthews lets a guest get a word or two in and it had to be that whack job.

      The tyranny of a prince in an oligarchy is not so dangerous to the public welfare as the apathy of a citizen in a democracy. -Charles de Montesquieu

      by dawgflyer13 on Tue Jan 28, 2014 at 02:13:46 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Moon Landing Syndrome (5+ / 0-)

    If they didn't experience it, it didn't happen.

    Conversely, if they think they see one example of it happening, it happens all the time.

    I was getting my hair cut the other day and could barely contain myself because a couple chairs down a client and the hairdresser were talking about the hoax of Obama's reelection because they didn't know anybody who voted for him. As soon as my hair was finished, I walked over to them and told them that I voted for him, my wife did, my brother in law and his daughter did, my nieces did, and so on. "So now you know someone who voted for the President."

  •  They are truly depressed, so all of the above. (0+ / 0-)

    Many can't see the trends because they won't allow themselves to do so, yet they feel the heat rising on the periphery due to what they overhear as well as witness with their own eyes.

    Far too many just want to win at any cost, damn the lies, wink-wink, nudge-nudge...

    To me, it's just a case of mass depression as the world will NOT stop and turn back for them.  And they know it.  Deep down.

    Someone once asked me why do you always insist on taking the hard road? and I replied why do you assume I see two roads?

    by funluvn1 on Tue Jan 28, 2014 at 02:07:25 PM PST

  •  One address, 58 official GOP responses (0+ / 0-)

    The first of 58 tonight, for the GOP Extremely Patriotic Tea Party Don't Tread On Me Or I Will Use All These Guns Because That is How You Handle The Antichrist Caucus, Rep. Steve King...

  •  All of the above? (0+ / 0-)

    I'll take #5 for #200.

    "You with your big words, and your...small, difficult words!" -- Peter Griffin

    by Penny Century on Tue Jan 28, 2014 at 02:14:34 PM PST

  •  Teabaggers don't read past the headline (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wishingwell, happymisanthropy

    They scan headlines and then are off to the racetracks with their deluded anecdotal "expertise" on the topic.

    (-2.38, -3.28) Independent thinker

    by TrueBlueDem on Tue Jan 28, 2014 at 02:15:44 PM PST

  •  All of 'em (0+ / 0-)

    1) Blinders on to facts that are incompatible with the Conservative Worldview (TM) being infallible

    2) Willful ignorance because if it doesn't exist, then it's not real. Yes, this is different from point 1.

    3) Rank stupidity, because these people are conservatives.

    4) Ideological dishonesty because these people are conservatives.

    I hope my check is in the mail.

  •  Lying Propaganda. (0+ / 0-)

    The right wing is evil.

  •  I don't get it either, Markos. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wishingwell

    Pure spite?  Yeah, I think of all the things you offered, mostly it's about spite.

    ((((President Barack Obama))))

    I would rather spend my life searching for truth than live a single day within the comfort of a lie. ~ John Victor Ramses

    by KayCeSF on Tue Jan 28, 2014 at 02:22:35 PM PST

  •  Programming. (0+ / 0-)

    Like a See-'N'-Say.

  •  Some are even stupider. (0+ / 0-)

    Today Speaker Boehner expressed support for the SKILLS Act (a law dealing with job training) on his website and a commenter started ranting about increased immigration. When I called him out for it it turned out he had confused the SKILLS Act with the Skills Visa Act (a GOP bill increasing levels of some visas) and he didn't notice that Boehner's post dealt with something absolutely different.

  •  "Are still brown people in the country, right? (0+ / 0-)

    And all gawd-fearing t-liban murikans know the only brown people are illegals.  Why look at the so-call President, the damn black Kenyan."

    There in is the 'wisdom' of the Thuglican base and the explanation you requested for their continued insistence that reality just is not.

    The sad thing is the media and Very Serious Persons know these folks are raving lunatics and yet insist we must take them seriously... nay, they must drive the bus!

    But it beats actually doing their job and dealing with real things I guess.  So there's that.

  •  it's a heady mix (0+ / 0-)

    of Willful ignorance, Rank stupidity, and jus' plain ol' dishonesty...

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site