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Noah's Ark
And I say the ark was painted blue, heretic.
I see modern America continues to make great strides in the field of not believing in things.
All the Republican candidates running for Texas lieutenant governor agree: Creationism needs to be taught in schools.

At a statewide televised debate Monday, the four Republican candidates said they would like to see the religious theory taught in the classroom, according to videos of the event.

That people can get elected to high office still believing that certain segments of science Do Not Exist is something we really need to address. You shouldn't have to be a genius, heaven knows, but it would be nice if we could count on our elected leaders to, say, remain calm during the appearance of the next comet and not immediately accuse one of their constituents of sky-destroying witchcraft. I hear there is some debate over the precise dimensions of Noah's Ark—perhaps the Texas of 20 years from now will be embroiled in a new controversy when some teacher is discovered to have taught the good Texas children the wrong version, thus shattering the poor children's religious roots and sending them down the path to sin and rampant drug abuse.
State Sen. Dan Patrick and Agriculture Commissioner Todd Staples indicated they think the absence of creationism in schools is an affront to Christianity.

“I don’t think we have to live in a state where we need to apologize for being a Christian. ... [Creationism] is something that most Texans believe in, and our children need to be exposed to this,” Staples said.

Well, if most Texans believe it, clearly the realities of the universe must bend to accommodate them. I suspect most Texas children of a certain age believe Pokemon are real—perhaps we should change the biology curriculum to reflect that, as well.

The reason I have so little patience for these people, at this point: There are many, many Christians who do not believe in creationism, at least not the ultra-literal interpretation favored by the more talibanesque elements of the base, who consider the teaching of supernatural explanations for scientific phenomenon to be an "affront" to them and their children. Not even those people are allowed to be heard, much less any of the Americans who subscribe to—shudder—something else. Once again, a set of dull-minded fundamentalists insists that their version of Christianity can be the only true one, and that all of America should naturally bow down before it, and that anyone with religious beliefs that differ in even the slightest fraction to their own should be driven from the public square so that their religion, their scientific ignorances, their moral decisions can be erected over the top of the nation like a gallows and noose.

Originally posted to Hunter on Wed Jan 29, 2014 at 10:24 AM PST.

Also republished by TexKos-Messing with Texas with Nothing but Love for Texans and Daily Kos.

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Comment Preferences

  •  in TX, all fossil records are 78s (29+ / 0-)

    Warning - some snark may be above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 "I’m not the strapping young Muslim socialist that I used to be" - Barack Obama 04/27/2013

    by annieli on Wed Jan 29, 2014 at 10:30:20 AM PST

  •  The problem is their ignorant base votes; we are (10+ / 0-)

    Held back by politicians catering to stupid. Stupid votes & stupid wins.

    nosotros no somos estúpidos

    by a2nite on Wed Jan 29, 2014 at 10:37:13 AM PST

  •  These same people scream bloody murder (14+ / 0-)

    when they hear that schools in Muslim countries use the Koran. This country would be far smaller if cognitive dissonance was fatal.

    Most of the people taking a hard line against us are firmly convinced that they are the last defenders of civilization... The last stronghold of mother, God, home and apple pie and they're full of shit! David Crosby, Journey Thru the Past.

    by Mike S on Wed Jan 29, 2014 at 10:37:45 AM PST

  •  After Dewhurst lost to Cruz in Senate primary (7+ / 0-)

    Any Republican in Texas going after a high profile seat realized that hard right was the way to go in a primary.  

    The NPR report the next day was clear to mention that all candidates thought both creationism and intelligent design should be taught alongside evolution.

    •  What's the difference between (7+ / 0-)

      creationism and intelligent design?  Will these people come up with enough variations of "God did it" that the time for teaching science will become filled with non-scientific explanations of the differences between the variations?

      If people want their children to "be exposed to this," maybe they should consider taking them to church to learn creationism in Sunday School.

      "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

      by SueDe on Fri Jan 31, 2014 at 07:35:01 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  The difference is subtle (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        SueDe, Dave in Northridge, dewtx

        As I understand, Creationism is belief in the truth of  the creation story (or stories) presented in the opening chapters of the book of Genesis.  Belief that the god of Abraham/Moses was the creative agent.  

        Intelligent Design just says the universe was created- but doesn't specify the creator.  In my opinion, ID proponents are generally dishonest creationists.


      •  Huge difference (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Dave in Northridge, mmacdDE, dewtx

        Creationism is generally based on a literal interpretation of Genesis, whereas intelligent design is just the idea that there was some sort of guiding force that brought us into existence.

        Neither should be taught in a science classroom, but intelligent design isn't the outright rejection of science that creationism is.  It is, for example, possible for a believer in intelligent design to believe that the Earth is 4 billion years old and that God used evolution as His tool to bring us into existence.  While that's essentially unprovable, it doesn't require the rejection of scientific consensus on evolution and the age of the planet.

        Political Compass: -6.75, -3.08

        by TexasTom on Fri Jan 31, 2014 at 09:02:01 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  There's no difference whatsoever (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          "Intelligent Design" textbooks were shown during the Kitzmiller v. Dover trial to have merely substituted the word "creationism" with "Intelligent Design". Both boil down to "God did it". There's no difference between the two at all. "Intelligent Design" is a political strategy to sound sciencey enough to shoehorn creationism into science class.

          +++ The law is a weapon used to bludgeon us peasants into submission. It is not to be applied to the monied elite.

          by cybersaur on Sat Feb 01, 2014 at 11:37:50 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  purposefully misleading and dumbing down (11+ / 0-)

    the children of Texas is their platform. Brilliant.

    Power to the Peaceful!

    by misterwade on Wed Jan 29, 2014 at 10:41:08 AM PST

    •  This has been going on a long time. My kids (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      pvasileff, misterwade

      entered HS in '01-'02, and even when they were still in middle school (our district is a medium sized rural one),
       I would ask them about how evolution was being covered and their response was always: 'Dad, you can't even mention that stuff, the teachers get mad'.
      W had some long coattails here (even as Guv), it reached all the way down to the local pols like school district commissioners. Our county was once Democratic, the talibangelicals and teabaggers dominate now.
      Massive GOTV is the only way to advance D's in this state now. It will be difficult, as the Rescummies make damned sure anyone who even leans their way votes (I've seen them transport geezers who probably hadn't left the ranch in years to the polls).

      "The church of life is not in a building, it is the open sky, the surrounding ocean, the beautiful soil"...George Helm, 1/1977

      by Bluefin on Wed Jan 29, 2014 at 02:51:36 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  I'm all snarked out (9+ / 0-)

    I just can't even anymore. Went to the movies last week and had to suffer through previews of  "Son of God" which looked oddly familiar (not just because of the Megyn Kelly version of Jesus) and subsequently found out was the extended version of a segment from"The Bible" mini-series by Mark Burnett and Roma Downey that had been on The History Channel of all places.  

    Almost can't bear to go to my Barnes and Noble because it shares a parking lot with Mars Hill Church and the Mars people are often milling about and creeping me out.

    Even Russell Crowe has a movie coming out about Noah's Ark and it's not a spoof.

    At least with these things , I can choose to avoid them. But kids in public  Believe what you want, send your kids to schools that teach what you believe, homeschool your kids...whatever.

    But there are boundaries and it just keeps getting harder and harder to enforce them.

    We view "The Handmaid's Tale" as cautionary. The GOP views it as an instruction book.

    by Vita Brevis on Wed Jan 29, 2014 at 10:50:45 AM PST

  •  ask the oil and gas (9+ / 0-)

    engineers in Texas if the earth is 6,000 years old

    My heroes have the heart to live the life I want to live.

    by JLFinch on Wed Jan 29, 2014 at 10:52:30 AM PST

  •  Creationism (6+ / 0-)

    Total garbage. Why don't we take their cell phones, cars, TV's and all other things that require science to operate since they don't believe in it????

    •  At least it'll keep them from annoying the rest of (0+ / 0-)

      us with their idiocy if they have to walk, write letters by hand (that none of them will be able to read) and sit and rot while the rest of the world moves on.

      We cannot call ourselves a civilised society if we refuse to protect the weakest among us.

      by The Marti on Wed Jan 29, 2014 at 01:50:38 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  No. This is public education we're talking about. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        What they're asserting is the necessity of imposing their superstitious literalism on other people's children.

        "Think of something to make the ridiculous look ridiculous." -- Molly Ivins

        by dumpster on Fri Jan 31, 2014 at 06:47:52 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  These totalitarian Christians are disgusting (6+ / 0-)

    They are no different than the Soviets teaching Lysenkoism;

    From 1934 to 1940, under Lysenko's admonitions and with Stalin's approval, many geneticists were executed (including Isaak Agol, Solomon Levit, Grigorii Levitskii, Georgii Karpechenko and Georgii Nadson) or sent to labor camps. The famous Soviet geneticist Nikolai Vavilov was arrested in 1940 and died in prison in 1943.[9] Hermann Muller (and his teachings about genetics) was criticized as a bourgeois, capitalist, imperialist, and promoting fascism so he left the USSR, to return to the USA via Republican Spain.
    In 1948, genetics was officially declared "a bourgeois pseudoscience";[10] all geneticists were fired from their jobs (some were also arrested), and all genetic research was discontinued. Nikita Khrushchev, who claimed to be an expert in agricultural science, also valued Lysenko as a great scientist, and the taboo on genetics continued (but all geneticists were released or rehabilitated posthumously). The ban was only waived in the mid-1960s.
    Thus, Lysenkoism caused serious, long-term harm to Soviet knowledge of biology. It represented a serious failure of the early Soviet leadership to find real solutions to agricultural problems, throwing their support behind a charlatan at the expense of many human lives.

    Daily Kos an oasis of truth. Truth that leads to action.

    by Shockwave on Wed Jan 29, 2014 at 10:59:30 AM PST

  •  Religion is the problem (10+ / 0-)

    Sorry, everyone, but the problem is ALL religion, not just fundamentalism. Liberal religion enables fundamentalists.

    Also, although there is religion without creationism, there is no creationism without religion behind it. Creationism will not go away until we loosen the grip that religion has on our country.

    •  I cannot blame all religion for this insanity. I (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      DO, however, blame our elected officials for not keeping the line between Church and State firmly in their sight.

      That line is there to protect us all.  

      We cannot call ourselves a civilised society if we refuse to protect the weakest among us.

      by The Marti on Wed Jan 29, 2014 at 01:52:43 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  No, religious liberalism enables secularism! (0+ / 0-)

      At least that's what the fundamentalists say about us liberal religious folk who embrace evolution, to say nothing of our support of the separation of church and state, abortion rights, same-sex marriage, etc.  In their opinion, we're an even bigger threat to their vision of America than the secular community because they see us as sell-outs.

      I tell you, it ain't easy occupying a moderate position between two ideological extremes!

      If you think that if religious liberalism (of any stripe) somehow disappeared from American public discourse, then religious fundamentalism would quickly follow in its wake, think again.  More likely the ranks of both extremist camps would swell, and the polarization of American society would become even more extreme.

      If anything, it's the more strident and outspoken secularists that enable the religious fundamentalists, and vice-versa, and I'd dare say the majority of secularists who embrace a live-and-let-live approach to religion would agree with me.  There's a symbiotic relationship between the opposing parties, with the rhetoric and behavior of each side confirming the worst suspicions of the other.

      That's the danger of reacting to an extreme position by adopting an extreme position of your own.  You end up becoming the mirror image of that which you oppose.  Just look at what happened with Ayn Rand and her acolytes in the Objectivist movement.

      Creationism is not going to be defeated by the pipedream of getting rid of religion.  The only way to beat it is to marginalize it, and in order to do that, it requires not more extremism but a vital center comprised of both religious liberals and tolerant secularists.

    •  perhaps you are unaware that nearly all the (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mmacdDE, JerryNA

      plaintiffs in nearly all the legal cases that were filed to have creationism thrown out of public schools, were filed by clergy and members of mainstream churches.

      You sound exactly like all the buffoons who insist on equating "Muslims" with "terrorists".

      In the end, reality always wins.

      by Lenny Flank on Fri Jan 31, 2014 at 07:12:12 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  This creationist myth (4+ / 0-)

    is fraught with problems, not the least of which being the number of abortions caused by God in order to float this boat.

  •  Everyone knows (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    elfling, happymisanthropy, The Marti

    that the ark was red.

    In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move. - Douglas Adams

    by warlock on Wed Jan 29, 2014 at 11:02:21 AM PST

  •  error in picture (6+ / 0-)

    Something is wrong with that picture. Those cylinders coming out of the hull dont look 3 times as round as their diameter to me.

  •  And that is why... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    The Marti

    my kid is going to private school.  

  •  What was that in the SOTU about staying ahead? (9+ / 0-)

    Won't happen with this crowd in charge. We'll continue to slip further and further behind as they pursue their pathetic attempts at constant validation from everyone else that their religion and beliefs are the only true ones. Or the only ones that are real and count anyway.
    And they wilt at any different beliefs or evidence being allowed.
    They will not be ignored!

    And of course they never get how insisting their religious beliefs be the law of the land or the basis for education, even scientific education, is anything like the Taliban or Sharia law.
    Because of course it's not the same, because their religion is true and the other religion is false.

    You could hit them between the eyes with a two by four and they wouldn't see it.

    It is comical...except that it really isn't. And everyone suffers from it - especially since so many textbooks are written so that they can be used in the Texas market.

    Blue is blue and must be that. But yellow is none the worse for it - Edith Sidebottom

    by kenwards on Wed Jan 29, 2014 at 11:26:40 AM PST

  •  Of course (5+ / 0-)

    And from a diary yesterday: All four GOP candidates for TX lieutenant governor would have kept brain-dead woman on life support  None of them dare to take any position that is not as far to the right as possible.

    The Republican lieutenant governor candidates seem less concerned about winning the primary than making the runoff.

    For an hour Monday, the candidates searched for areas of difference in a field where there wasn’t much.

    On the issues, they pretty much agree — from tough limits on abortion to enmity to all things Obama and allegiance to Christian values.

    “Texas is a so-called red state, but you’ve got 10 million Democrats here in Texas. And …, there are a whole lot of people here in Texas who need us, and who need us to fight for them.” President Obama

    by Catte Nappe on Wed Jan 29, 2014 at 11:35:56 AM PST

    •  I guess we can expect the next Lege (5+ / 0-)

      to clarify the law to replace the term "patient" with "brain-dead body" or some such.

      And add a mandatory pregnancy test for all recently deceased females between roughly 12 and 55.  

      I wish I was 100% kidding about that.

      The truth always matters.

      by texasmom on Wed Jan 29, 2014 at 12:37:49 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  That is just fuckin' macabre. And I have NO doubts (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        that any number of Reptaliban TX legislators are feverishly working up drafts of such bills in order to be the first ones submitted next year when the Lege opens a new session..

        And add a mandatory pregnancy test for all recently deceased females between roughly 12 and 55.  
        Gawdallfuckingmighty, will we ever see the end of this?

        "The church of life is not in a building, it is the open sky, the surrounding ocean, the beautiful soil"...George Helm, 1/1977

        by Bluefin on Wed Jan 29, 2014 at 03:08:39 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  At least they did not say creationism (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    should be part of the science curriculum.  Teaching religious theory is not the worst thing you can spend time on in school.  At the very least students will have some understanding of scriptures.  And one day students may even be able to quote a passage or two in rebuttal to the right wing nut jobs who quote biblical verses to support their campaign against women, the jobless, the homeless and the underemployed poor.

    'As our area of knowledge expands, so too does our perimeter of ignorance.' - Neil deGrasse Tyson

    by American Expat on Wed Jan 29, 2014 at 11:39:29 AM PST

    •  But they do want creationism taught as science! (4+ / 0-)

      Some just change the name and call it "Intelligent Design". Others, the more forthright fundamentalists, call it creationism, but it's the same thing.  The sneakiest just want to "teach the controversy" or "let the kids make up their own minds", even though there is NO controversy among scientists, and nobody lets kids make up their own mind about other topics like chemistry or algebra.
      If they wanted creationism taught in an elective comparative religion class, then teachers and scientists would have no problem.

    •  Creationism isn't legit theology. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      The evangelical version has "evolved" to suit their own goals.  In addition to scripture it includes all their BS made up "scientific" proof that it's true.  It also claims that evolution is not true and unprovable and even questions science itself.

      A simple comparative religion class is something that would be far more beneficial to student and the world for that matter.  A little enlightenment and barrier breaking is long overdue.

      America, where a rising tide lifts all boats! Unless you don't have a boat...uh...then it lifts all who can swim! Er, if you can't swim? SHAME ON YOU!

      by Back In Blue on Fri Jan 31, 2014 at 07:14:51 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Actually teaching the bible will enable (0+ / 0-)

      students to understand and relate to biblical references in literature, art and music, even though those subjects are no longer taught in K-12 public schools because of budget cuts.

      "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

      by SueDe on Fri Jan 31, 2014 at 07:56:32 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I wish they did teach comparative religion (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        Some kids never meet anybody who does believe what they do. It would be a real eye opener for a lot of them.

        And for those who actually have some faith, it would likely make it stronger.

        It's their parents who are so weak in their faith.

  •  Brainwashing the children. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Blood, JerryNA, The Marti, Bluefin

    That's how they survive. No grown person in their right mind could believe all that garbage. Like Santa Clause.

    Science and reason threaten the fairytale. Same for all religions. How about we start with zero, and teach kids what we KNOW. Follow the EVIDENCE. Believers can't do that.

    There is no believing in evolution or not believing. You either understand it or you don't.

    What is so unnerving about the candidacy of Sarah Palin is the degree to which she represents—and her supporters celebrate—the joyful marriage of confidence and ignorance. SAM HARRIS

    by Cpqemp on Wed Jan 29, 2014 at 11:57:00 AM PST

  •  Gotta be unconstitutional... n/t (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JerryNA, The Marti, Bluefin

    "Daddy, every time a bell rings, a Randian Libertaria­n picks up his Pan Am tickets for the Libertaria­n Paradise of West Dakota!"

    by unclebucky on Wed Jan 29, 2014 at 12:09:39 PM PST

  •  We are entering a new dark age (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    happymisanthropy, Cpqemp, Bluefin

    And I'm starting to feel that it is futile trying to fight it. Their numbers are huge, they are well funded, their propaganda is hysterical and paranoid, they are guided by conspiracy theories, and they certainly favor religious doctrine over all else especially science.

    You cannot argue with the creationists with facts. If they were persuaded by facts, they wouldn't be creationists.

    "I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. -- John Stuart Mill (March, 1866)

    by Blood on Wed Jan 29, 2014 at 12:10:00 PM PST

  •  How about a fair trade (5+ / 0-)

    If creationism has to be taught in public schools, how about evolution has to be taught in churches? Oh, I guess equal time isn't really on the agenda.

    Never mind.

    There's no such thing as a Free Information Kit. There is, however, advertising.

    by lotac on Wed Jan 29, 2014 at 12:10:52 PM PST

  •  The private unversities can end this (4+ / 0-)

    by refusing to accept students from schools where creationism is taught.  All it would take is a few Yales and MITs and I think we'd see a quick end to this bullshit.  

  •  So because *most* Texans believe in it (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    The Marti, Bluefin, pvasileff

    and presumably expose their own children to it at home, it follows that the schools should teach it...

    [Creationism] is something that most Texans believe in, and our children need to be exposed to this,” Staples said.
    ... just to make sure the heathens' children are exposed to it too.

    Politics means controlling the balance of economic and institutional power. Everything else is naming post offices.

    by happymisanthropy on Wed Jan 29, 2014 at 12:21:29 PM PST

  •  I grew up in a Roman Catholic family, and (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Bluefin, pvasileff

    was taught all the biblical stories, too.  But I was also taught a pretty fair grounding in science.  

    And when I got to  the grades where we started questioning things, it was explained to us that those were parables to help people understand how some things worked, to illustrate what The Almighty expected of us.

    I spent more time in science classes than in religion classes, too.  

    I want my separation of Church and State, and I want it now, in all fifty states.  kthnx.

    We cannot call ourselves a civilised society if we refuse to protect the weakest among us.

    by The Marti on Wed Jan 29, 2014 at 02:01:42 PM PST

    •  Me too, with a most rigorous classical, (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      The Marti, pvasileff

      scientific, logic-based, skeptical, critical thinking curriculum available in the '50's-'60's. The religious material was kept quite separate from the other subjects.
      Nowadays, the Talibangelicals are imposing their 'faith-based' bullshit on everything they can get their tentacles into.

      "The church of life is not in a building, it is the open sky, the surrounding ocean, the beautiful soil"...George Helm, 1/1977

      by Bluefin on Wed Jan 29, 2014 at 03:22:47 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  ^^^^THIS^^^^ This is the kind of education I had, (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        and the kind I want for all of our children, regardless of their individual faiths.

        I want them taught how to think, to reason, to question...and to demand answers, especially of those in elected office.

        We cannot call ourselves a civilised society if we refuse to protect the weakest among us.

        by The Marti on Wed Jan 29, 2014 at 03:29:29 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  So on the test, when a kid answers correctly that (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Creationism is junk science hogwash, will that Texas school system fail him and keep him from getting a High School diploma?

    And it feels like I'm livin'in the wasteland of the free ~ Iris DeMent, 1996

    by MrJersey on Wed Jan 29, 2014 at 02:16:45 PM PST

  •  "The reason I have so little patience... (0+ / 0-)

    ...for these people..."

    It's one of the main reasons I now have no patience with them.  I don't even bother to let loose at them, though that may happen should various unfortunate factors align someday.

    They are ignorant (proudly so) and stupid and essentially insane - unless they notice that it's going to cost them something dear immediately.

    You cannot be a good human being and still vote Republican, or hold 'Mer'kin/Xian views.  You are something that is impelled by the disease within you to do that which is against your own (and others) better interests.

  •  Well that's one more thing the fundies are (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    hopeless at, naval architecture.
    There's no way that bloated ark in the picture would float properly, let alone survive a Force 3 breeze without rolling over on its beam ends. It has a ridiculous amount of tophamper/freeboard. As is, it would require the lower one-third to be loaded with solid ballast just to float upright.
    I hope they put a Cat I EPIRB aboard, they'll need it a few hundred yards from the dock.

    "The church of life is not in a building, it is the open sky, the surrounding ocean, the beautiful soil"...George Helm, 1/1977

    by Bluefin on Wed Jan 29, 2014 at 03:47:55 PM PST

    •  Spoken like Bucky Fuller. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      That's a compliment!

      •  Gwarsh, thanks. I had to Wiki the name, wasn't (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        sure, I always use his full(er) one; rare company indeed.
        I'm a sailor/mariner, which has its own fairly precise lingo.
        Have to agree:

        Buckminster Fuller spoke and wrote in a unique style and said it was important to describe the world as accurately as possible.[50] Fuller often created long run-on sentences and used ...>
        Unless you're doing satire or snark...then anything goes, and the Repubtaliban world is a target-rich environment.

        "The church of life is not in a building, it is the open sky, the surrounding ocean, the beautiful soil"...George Helm, 1/1977

        by Bluefin on Thu Jan 30, 2014 at 06:24:03 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  I'm just wondering what happens when the dinosaurs (0+ / 0-)

      decide to take a leisurely walk.

      Probably capsize that thing.

      Fox News: Redistribution Of Ignorance.

      by here4tehbeer on Fri Jan 31, 2014 at 08:53:31 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  What are we afraid of??? (0+ / 0-)

    I still say kids -- and their parents -- will get a MUCH better lesson in science if we DO address creationism in science class than if we continue to give it power by trying to suppress / ignore / avoid it.

    It goes something like this:

    The scientific method -- "science" -- is our box of tools for exploring, measuring, modeling, and manipulating the physical universe. Science only works for physical processes that occur in a way that allows us to (1) characterize them well enough to distinguish them from other physical processes, (2) predict the circumstances under which they recur, and (3) test our predictions and characterizations and refine them if they are inaccurate.

    Acts of creation by a creator cannot be predicted; we have no basis for believing we can manipulate a creator into performing acts of creation; and there is no way to distinguish a life form created in its totality by a creator from one that has developed spontaneously from a simpler life form as a result of physical processes within the universe.

    Until humans can predict when a creator will perform acts of creation, observe those acts of creation, and learn how to distinguish the created organisms or objects from those the universe might spontaneously generate via physical processes we can predict and characterize, science is not the tool for investigating acts of creation, so science class is not the place to discuss creation at any more length.

    Handle this on the first day of class, work with students and their parents to help them understand this, and it's done.

    Fight them to the end, until the children of the poor eat better than the dogs of the rich.

    by raincrow on Wed Jan 29, 2014 at 04:59:08 PM PST

    •  They won't teach it that way. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      In fact, it will be just the opposite.  Science will be declared "only a theory" while creationism is what God has told us is true.  It's right there in the bible.

      They're just looking for the door to be opened.

      America, where a rising tide lifts all boats! Unless you don't have a boat...uh...then it lifts all who can swim! Er, if you can't swim? SHAME ON YOU!

      by Back In Blue on Fri Jan 31, 2014 at 07:22:14 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Texas tries for breaking the rules again (0+ / 0-)

    It's always good form to go against court decisions and waste time and money trying again and again to prove ignorance.  Reminds me of the (about) 40 votes in the House to repeal Health Care.  But what the hell, it's not their money they are wasting again.

    •  There really should be some penalty for wasting (0+ / 0-)

      taxpayer time and money trying repeatedly to pass the same, bogus legislation over and over again.

      America, where a rising tide lifts all boats! Unless you don't have a boat...uh...then it lifts all who can swim! Er, if you can't swim? SHAME ON YOU!

      by Back In Blue on Fri Jan 31, 2014 at 07:24:46 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  They have a serious pre-existing condition: stupid (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    The worst kind - they defend it as an inalienable right.

    Randy Newman got their number a long time ago.

    (Warning - repeated us of the "N" word.)

    "No special skill, no standard attitude, no technology, and no organization - no matter how valuable - can safely replace thought itself."

    by xaxnar on Fri Jan 31, 2014 at 06:39:35 PM PST

  •  From that inconvenient Constitution thingy: (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    "The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."

    Ever notice how there's always the letter of the law but that nasty spirit of the law gets in the way of conservative situational morality?

    •  It's one of those "inconvenient" things (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      in the constitution that they like to pretend doesn't exist.  Kind of like all the "inconvenient" things in their bibles they like to pretend don't exist either.

      America, where a rising tide lifts all boats! Unless you don't have a boat...uh...then it lifts all who can swim! Er, if you can't swim? SHAME ON YOU!

      by Back In Blue on Fri Jan 31, 2014 at 07:26:30 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  The least a Christian could do who wants to teach (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    BelgianBastard, Back In Blue, JerryNA

    "Creationism" as scientific fact to school children is prove their God exists, first.

  •  Aren't the kids already being taught creationism (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Back In Blue, JerryNA


    •  Exactly. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mmacdDE, JerryNA

      The only reason they want it in public schools is establish their beliefs, which is of course unconstitutional.  

      America, where a rising tide lifts all boats! Unless you don't have a boat...uh...then it lifts all who can swim! Er, if you can't swim? SHAME ON YOU!

      by Back In Blue on Fri Jan 31, 2014 at 07:28:43 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  It says a lot about the state of Texas politics (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Back In Blue, JerryNA

    that this actually isn't the most offensive thing said in that debate.  That distinction goes to them all saying Marlise Munoz should have stayed on life support--and at least two of them effectively think that desecration of a corpse should be legal in Texas.

    "Leave us alone!" -Mike Capuano

    by Christian Dem in NC on Fri Jan 31, 2014 at 07:04:29 PM PST

  •  fortunately, it doesn't matter a rat's ass what (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Back In Blue, JerryNA

    any of them think.

    Teaching creationism is illegal.  Period.  End of discussion.

    In the end, reality always wins.

    by Lenny Flank on Fri Jan 31, 2014 at 07:09:52 PM PST

    •  They can still win even if they lose (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      True, they might never be able to get full-blooded creationism taught in public school, but the next best thing is to effectively gut and destroy the public education system, primarily by starving it of funds. That's an eminently achievable goal, all they need to do is throw in with extreme Republicans at the state level.

      Make public schools so bad that desperate parents have no choice but to send them to US-style madrasses. Corporate charter schools probably won't care either way, but global warming - what's that?

      So to reiterate, it's not enough to keep creationism out, we have to build up the public school system everywhere.

      •  we already did that for them (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JerryNA, Berkeley Fred

        We've had the worst education system in the world for half a century now. Science, math, history--we've ranked near the bottom for decades now.

        That's why most Americans don't know what a "molecule" is, can't name the Supreme Court Chief Justice, and can't find Afghanistan on a world map. (Heck, one out of eight American adults can't even find the USA on a world map.)

        We are, alas, a nation of uneducated morans.

        In the end, reality always wins.

        by Lenny Flank on Fri Jan 31, 2014 at 08:41:31 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  I went to Sunday School regularly (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mmacdDE, JerryNA

    as a kid. Do they still have those little medals with bars hanging down for every year you go? I had seven years on mine at one point. This was in the 1950s.

    My best friend in 6th grade was the base chaplain's son, and I hung out with him and his dad quite a bit, and we talked about all kinds of things, including religious things. His dad's main interest, IIRC, was medieval Christian writings, and he showed me all these books with Latin and Old English in them, which was fascinating.

    I also remember during a Vacation Bible School one summer I got a big piece of that brown butcher's paper, and traced a giant genealogical tree through the entire Old Testament and some of the Gospels. Great fun.

    Of course, I was already an atheist, an avowed unbeliever from around age seven, and I even talked about that in Sunday School. No one seemed to mind, although most didn't agree. It was basically à chacun son goût. Furthermore, not once the whole time did I ever meet anyone who claimed to believe that the creation stories in the Bible were anything but inspired fantasies, perhaps in some cases with a bit of historical truth.

    Then public school integration came along, and the so-called Christian Schools/Academies (all white, naturally) started popping up all over the South. I think that's actually what provided the initial moment for the fundamentalists, because not long after that, the fundamentalists took over the Southern Baptist Convention, and things just went on from there, through the Moral Majority and so on, down to today's Tea Party.

    Today's kids are surely facing something completely different from what I and my friends faced back in the day. I hope they manage to avoid becoming completely brainwashed by it.

  •  Epic and well-deserved snark (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    speedyexpress48, JerryNA

    I wish I could rec this 100x. At the end of the day, it has nothing to do with education or "teaching both sides" or any of that. It is about power. It's about "I believe this, and by God (literally) everyone else should, too...or else."

    Science is science, and public schools have an obligation to give kids a thorough grounding in it. If a parent doesn't want his child to hear anything but his particular branch of whatever religion's take on creation, or what the sun is, or whatever, then he can put him in a private school or homeschool him. Public schools have no business walking into the quicksand of injecting a particular, narrow belief into what should be an objective, fact-based, and, yes, secular curriculum. (If a school system can afford a comparative religion elective, great! Teach all the creation stories, as well as the tenets of all major religions in their historical contexts). If a parent believes that creationism is literally true, she is free to tell her child that Mrs. Teacher is wrong and going to hell, but it boggles my mind that anyone would seriously suggest injecting religion into a science curriculum...unless of course he simply wanted to codify, legitimize, and evangelize his own narrow belief as widely and publicly as possible. Hmmmmm.  

  •  The problem is Judeo-Christian religions have way (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    too big a footprint on the planet considering their relative size and tenure on earth.

    Read this modern research on the bible for another take on some of these issues at the very basic level of biblical legends....

  •  Who are the Democratic candidates for Lt. Gov? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    texasmom, JerryNA, nomandates

    Everyone on this site probably knows that we have Wendy Davis running for Gov of Texas.  Can someone please blog about the situation with the rest of the ticket?   And this is not an invitation to assess their odds of winning.  It is more an invitation to focus positive attention on our side and to organize around the electoral challenge of turning Texas Blue - if not this cycle, then over time.

  •  Just more proof that the GOP is a theocratic party (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Major Kong, JerryNA

    controlled at the local, state, and national level by Evangelical Christianists who believe fervently that Adam and Eve had vegetarian dinosaurs for neighbors in the Garden of Eden 5,000 years ago.

    What this means is that the Republican Party is ideologically hostile to true education in general and real science in particular. It is a party that psychologically is at home in the 14th century.

  •  Ssshhhhhhh! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Major Kong


    Can you hear that clapping and cheering?

    That's several million little schoolkids all across Europe and developing industrial countries like India and China all cheering these guys on.

    See when your kids are so dim and uneducated, it means all those lovely university places and potential jobs in innovative science and industry will be going to the other kids instead.

    Yaaaay! Go CreoTards! Murikah Numba One! USA USA USA!

  •  I hate creationists. And I have one in my own (0+ / 0-)


    Evolution by natural selection is not just another "theory". It explains everything. When you really think about it, evolution is, in the original sense of the word, awesome.

    If I meet a person that hasn't thought about it and on some level said to themselves "Wow. Just wow." well, it kind of hard for me to respect that person. I'm sorry. It just is.

    Ceterum censeo Factionem Republicanam esse delendam.

    by journeyman on Sat Feb 01, 2014 at 06:26:15 AM PST

  •  Marketplace of Ideas (0+ / 0-)

    Hey, Creationists are FREE to compete in the Marketplace of Ideas that is the scientific and academic communities. If they can create a consensus there, then their explanations should be taught in schools.

  •  If you want to expose your kids to creationism... (0+ / 0-)

    ...just take them to church every weekend. Besides, the amount of time spent on specifically teaching evolution in the public school system isn't really that significant. Creationists make it sound like it has a daily or weekly emphasis, but that's hardly the case.

  •  Brought to you by (0+ / 0-)

    the state where the children pledge allegiance to the state.  I shit you not.

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