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House Budget Chairman Paul Ryan speaks at the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) at National Harbor, Maryland March 15, 2013.  REUTERS/Kevin Lamarque  (UNITED STATES - Tags: POLITICS) - RTR3F1C1
Not always a liar.
Now this is a switch, and from the guy who made a vice presidential candidate career (unsuccessfully) out of lying about Medicare and Obamacare.
House Budget Chair Paul Ryan (R-WI) explained in a Wednesday hearing with CBO director Steven Elmendorf that the health care reform law wouldn't cost the U.S. economy more than 2 million jobs, as many of his colleagues alleged, but that Americans would choose to work less. [...]

"Just to understand, it is not that employers are laying people off," Ryan said.

"That is right," Elmendorf said. [...]

To be clear, Ryan wasn't thrilled with the CBO's finding. He said he was "troubled" by the report because it suggested that Obamacare was encouraging Americans "not to get on the ladder of life, to begin working, getting the dignity of work, getting more opportunities, rising the income, joining the middle class."

"This means fewer people will do that," he said.

Actually, he should be thrilled. In those 2 million people leaving their jobs, there will most surely be a significant chunk of "job creators," the anti-moochers who are such a fetish of the GOP. He's a Republican, though, so he can ignore that inconvenient fact and focus on all the people who are rejecting the "dignity of work." But maybe Ryan's momentary brush with truthfulness means that "2 million jobs lost" won't be the GOP mantra between now and November.

Probably not, but maybe.

Originally posted to Joan McCarter on Wed Feb 05, 2014 at 08:49 AM PST.

Also republished by Daily Kos.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Scarborough: This will make great 30 second ads (6+ / 0-)

    for the GOP.......Don't think so Joe.

    •  annnnnd......the other dorks.... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      shoeless, ericlewis0
      •  Just because the fool from redstate doesn't like (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ericlewis0, TofG

        what the CBO report says, doesn't mean the NYT article, which explains what the CBO report says, is spin.

        It's funny (in a sad sort of way) that this dimwit then goes on to put his spin on the CBO report.

        ''Over the last 30 odd years, Democrats have moved to the right and the right has moved into the mental hospital."-Bill Maher

        by shoeless on Wed Feb 05, 2014 at 10:24:18 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Scarborough is right...that's all the GOP will (3+ / 0-)

      run from now...till 2016. That's all they are great at. Bumper sticker arguments. The nuances or reality or facts  are for commies...
      -Whether it sways things their way is another question.

      "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis, 1935 --Talk of foresight--

      by tuma on Wed Feb 05, 2014 at 10:52:51 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Repug Bumper Stickers (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        TofG, VPofKarma, OleHippieChick

        Obamacare cost 2.5 million jobs

        Trickle down works

        Immigration sucks

        47% Moochers

        BENGHAZI!!!!!!

        Let them live in their bubble. My republican friends, who are mostly well educated people, are all in. Meanwhile, reality will shock them.

        The same "2.5 million jobs" that the CBO report discussed, opens up more job opportunities.

        The Catholic Pope will help Obama redefine the failure of trickle down.

        Good immigration policy will be embraced as good economics, as many European nations have realized... but after Latinos and others miffed by the Repug non-policy have help vote many of them out.

        The "moochers" put much more back into the economy than the top 0.1%, and a minimum wage hike will reinforce that.

        Benghazi.... well let them run with that one.

        Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' ― Isaac Asimov

        by GoodGod on Wed Feb 05, 2014 at 12:26:57 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  2.5 million people able to work less (0+ / 0-)

          while adequately supporting their families means 2.5 million openings for other people with the skills that want to work available to cover the hours. 2.5 million is what about 0.8% of the population in the USA? That's going to leave a mark on unemployment figures for the better.

          •  Right! The same as CREATING new jobs! (0+ / 0-)

            That was part of the reason for creating Social Security during the Depression: old men hanging onto their jobs because their retirement savings "disappeared" (into the pockets of a few VERY rich men) COULD, after Social Security began, finally RETIRE and leave an open job for a younger man to take (the only jobs for women were teachers, nurses, telephone operators, etc. in the corporate world, and DOMESTIC as free lance labor).  Plus, the retired men (and women) on SSA pensions would spend SOME money in the economy and create more jobs.

            Of course, part of the motivation was compassion, for both SS and welfare, as well as WPA and CCC and the other public works projects.  But along with the compassion, people with paychecks spend more than people without paychecks, making jobs for others.

            Another fact about the ACA, though, is that people who COULD, and would PREFER, to open their own business, ultimately adding jobs for others, are stuck in their old salaried jobs because they could not replace the health plans of those jobs on their own.  Now that they can, they can tell the corporate boss goodbye and go into competition with their old company.  Oh wait, their old company may not like that!  That's why they tried to stop the ACA!

            •  Yeah not a whole lot of downsides to this (0+ / 0-)

              People dying on the job shouldn't be necessary just to survive, though that said my great uncle (construction engineer) worked up until he died by choice, he just wasn't equipped to deal with not working after 60 years of travelling the world consulting on jobs.

              But as we've seen here they're focusing on those 2.5M jobs as losses instead of labour reallocation that actually decrease unemployment, and which for employers can be a good thing too since as I recall they're not mandated to provide health insurance for people working less than 30 hours (so a cost deduction), and the ACA makes it affordable (and possible) for those people to get insurance anyway.

              Takes a really bad case of situational myopia not to see this as a good thing for everyone involved in the long term, hell competition for companies is vital in my experience as monopolies don't adjust to changed conditions very well for instance and having competitors can reduce their own bottom line as suppliers get pushed to be more competitive as well. And competition can drive innovation.

        •  Benghazi (0+ / 0-)

          Why is it that the pubs keep picking on that sore to keep it open while simultaneously ignoring the TWENTY-FIVE Benghazis that occurred during W's watch?

          It's disgusting that the pubs are getting away with lying through their teeth.

          Grrr..

          •  They do it because we let them. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            tubaguy, Arkenstark

            Yes, the Republicans are getting away with lying through their teeth.  

            The problem with Democrats is that they're too tolerant.  They tolerate the lying, they tolerate the cheating, the defrauding, the gerrymandering, the purchasing of elections, and all the rest of it.

            One day, in the not too far distant future, Democrats will grow a backbone.  They used to have one - they formed unions and MADE the corporations do the right thing by their workers.  But the unions are dying out because the workers no longer make enough money to pay union dues and still support their families.  

            Without the unions, there can be no middle class, because it's certain that the corporations don't want one - and without unions, the corporations get what the corporations want.

            •  Taking the high road (0+ / 0-)

              You are correct!  Taking the HIGH ROAD has done NOTHING for the Democrats when it comes to these outrageous, lying, slanderous TRAITORS to our nation, holding us ALL hostage while spreading their POISON to the minds of gullible folks that NEED REAL HELP....NOT JUST THE TALKING POINTS OF THEIR FALSE PROMISES OF HOPE....THERE WAY OR NO WAY AT ALL!

            •  I question whether it is the high road (0+ / 0-)

              Or just that so many Dem politicians have the same paymasters as many Repubs.  It's taken far too long for Democrats in elected office to challenge the idiocy.  They've caved too many times for it not to appear suspicious.  Are they really horribly incompetent, of just happy to let their paymasters' agenda items through and let the Repubs take the blame?  I've gotten thoroughly frustrated with them.

          •  Because They Are Hoping For The Next Attack (0+ / 0-)

            And the fact that there has not been one is driving them to new heights of insanity. They are sure there will be another attack, & they may be wondering why their rabid billionaire class is not MAKING one happen...you can buy anything anywhere if you got billions of dollars...after all.

            If corporations are people, can we shoot them in self defense?

  •  They will still run the ads though and.. (7+ / 0-)

    people will still believe them and the republicans will do well in 2014 elections.

  •  Dems should get proactive about coopting the GOP (19+ / 0-)

    message  of "choice" and should be aggressively pointing out that this is about giving Americans more choice in their careers and work decisions.

    That's one more thing to add to my long list of small problems. --my son, age 10

    by concernedamerican on Wed Feb 05, 2014 at 08:57:38 AM PST

  •  He still acted like there are NO long-term (7+ / 0-)

    unemployed and under-employed people. Maybe those folks would like the hours and available positions. And I'm getting off the ladder at 55, so fuck him.

  •  Boomers Are Retiring. (15+ / 0-)

    Much of this will be more of them getting out and making opportunity for younger workers.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Wed Feb 05, 2014 at 09:15:39 AM PST

    •  I Agree - It Opens Up Jobs for Young People (9+ / 0-)

      Many of the people who decide either to work less or stop working are probably older people who were holding on and working until 65 because they couldn't retire without  healthcare. What insurance company would have given a bunch of 55+ people affordable policies? Not to mention, by that time of life, who doesn't have an existing condition?

      Others who are leaving the workforce or cutting back on hours are probably working parents who have 2 workers in the family.  Back in the 90s I continued to work with small children because I had fantastic healthcare with my state university job (although the pay stunk). We were paying close to 14k a year in childcare for an infant and toddler, so after taxes I didn't really make much.  Financially we probably would have been better off if I stayed home cutting coupons and economizing. There are a lot of men and women in that position who would rather stay home with their kids if they could afford to instead of basically working for benefits.

      "The Trouble with the rat race is that even if you win, you're still a rat." attributed to Lily Tomlin

      by uniqity on Wed Feb 05, 2014 at 10:11:44 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  YES! (7+ / 0-)

      This really is a key point.  This won't simply be a case of people deciding to stay on Medicaid by not working.  It also means that a lot of people who are deferring retirement until Medicare kicks in will be able to take their retirement when they want to - and free up positions for younger workers.  We still have a significant unemployment problem, and it's particularly glaring for kids coming out of college.  Giving the sixtyish hangers-on the opportunity to retire without losing affordable medical coverage for five years could be very helpful.

      Yes, the work force will be smaller than it would have been. But if a larger percentage of the work force actually has jobs, the impact on the economy could be pretty minimal.

    •  I know one of those boomers who will now retire. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TKO333, VPofKarma

      She works as a nursing assistant at the biggest hospital in our area and will turn 65 this June. Her husband won't be 65 until August, 2015. She started drawing her Social Security retirement benefits at age 62 and would have stopped working then, but her husband has always been self-employed and the two of them have always relied on her health insurance because he had several pre-existing conditions. She thought she'd have to work an extra year just to keep her husband insured until Medicare kicks in. I'm sure there are many tens of thousands of couples across the country who were in the exact same situation.

      These two educated people had no idea that thanks to the ACA she can retire as soon as she pleases. I had to explain multiple times that not only will they be able to buy the husband good insurance for no more than they pay now, they may be able to get it even cheaper because their income will be reduced as soon as she stops working, qualifying them for a subsidy. At my urging the two of them have an appointment with an insurance specialist at our local Council on Aging to help them select a policy for him and commence the paperwork to get her onto Medicare as soon as her birthday rolls 'round. She will soon become one of those people that the CBO reported will voluntarily leave the labor force this year thanks to the ACA, and she can hardly wait.

      "Some folks rob you with a six-gun, some rob you with a fountain pen." - Woody Guthrie

      by Involuntary Exile on Wed Feb 05, 2014 at 11:30:20 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Of course they will run lying ads (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    VClib, Zeta Retuculi, jck

    And they will work. Voters are gullible fools and the media is a sad joke.

    The GOP will most likely take 5-6 Senate seats and another 5-10 in the House. After 73 in 2010 they don't have a lot of targets left.

    Our hope is 2016 and a better Senate map and HRC coat tails. But given the already-started purity trashing of Hillary by our own side here, we'll manage to self-inflict some wounds.

    The GOP seems pretty solid for being 'dead.'

    •  The entire economic debate for the last 35 years (3+ / 0-)

      has been played on GOP turf. No Democratic politician has been able to change that. Bill Clinton was smart enough to win the presidency twice after Reagan years but could not do much. Barack Obama has tried to help the little guy some but most of it has been done sneakily. He dare not speak out the truth loudly. He cannot say Obamacare redistributes wealth and that is a good thing. He cannot say Obamacare raises taxes on the rich. Many good things were done in Stimulus but were never given the public airing.

      The terms of the debate will have to change. The recent focus on inequality gives me some hope that the tide may be turning.

    •  This is not going to work out for them like they (6+ / 0-)

      imagine.  Any working American understands they sometimes remain in crappy jobs just because of the insurance.  And Washington Post has already given the claim (by their own paper) of job losses a rating of 3 Pinnochio's.

      Democrats should already have the "Pinnochio" ad in the can.  

  •  I expect (9+ / 0-)

    that the opposite is true:

    to begin working
    The ACA allows people who are 62 to retiure- knowing they can get insurance until they turn 65.

    As my father used to say,"We have the best government money can buy."

    by BPARTR on Wed Feb 05, 2014 at 09:33:41 AM PST

    •  It also helps people with younger spouses (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TKO333, VPofKarma

      It's super common for a spouse to be 10 years younger... if the older spouse is 65 and ready to retire, the couple is in trouble if that's the spouse that had employer-paid health insurance.

      Especially if the younger spouse has a preexisting condition... and it's hard to get to your 50's without one. In that case, the person might not have been insurable at any cost.

      If that younger spouse is actively ill, what a gift for the couple to be able to spend time together caring for each other, instead of working just to keep health insurance available.

      Fry, don't be a hero! It's not covered by our health plan!

      by elfling on Wed Feb 05, 2014 at 11:25:32 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Just saw a GOP operative on MSNBC ask: (18+ / 0-)

    Why do we want to encourage people to retire early?

    I. Could.  Not.  Believe.  It.  The other panelists mouths all gaped open and stared at him.  Could it be that the GOP really expects average Americans to work until they die?!?

    The operative asked this in response to one of the other pundits pointing out that a good portion of those leaving the work force would be older Americans retiring early because they no longer had to work just to keep their medical insurance.  

    •  The A-hole you reference (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Norm in Chicago, TKO333, VPofKarma

      is Matt Schlapp.

      His parents had a sense of humor.

      Good haircut, firm demeanor and — as we've come to expect from Republicans — a respectable parroting of low-information talking points but not a clue to the facts.

    •  Because people over 62 (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      BlueDragon

      just need health care. Groceries, gas, mortgage or rent, heat, water -- those things don't matter, so live it up! Retire early now that you have Obamacare.

      Lots of folks over 62 don't have the means to retire early--quite a few retire and take on part-time jobs to help make ends meet.

      People should be able to retire comfortably and have quite a few years left to enjoy, but in this country you shouldn't dare to feel so entitled.

    •  Because they want to own you (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      a2nite, Eagles92, TKO333, VPofKarma

      Maybe people will begin to realize that what the GOP and their masters want is obedient, docile workers who are afraid of losing everything they have and therefore are will to work for less and less each year with no real options.  Welcome to the new serfdom.  

      What is sad is that the Democrats do not seem to either realize what an opportunity this whole argument is or don't know how to make the argument.  The ACA is liberating in so many ways because it frees people from having to worry they will get sick, go bankrupt and die because they can't afford healthcare.   It is time we had a real discussion of what freedom is instead of just hearing the word thrown out by corporate shills who really want anything but.

      The difficulty lies not so much in developing new ideas as in escaping from old ones! - John Maynard Keynes

      by Do Something on Wed Feb 05, 2014 at 10:53:19 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Not to mention the fact that if 2 million people (8+ / 0-)

    decide they can afford to leave their job now because they can get health insurance anther way they will be replaced by others and unemployment should go down.

    •  Well, that doesn't fit the GOP timeline. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      catwho

      They don't want employment to go down until Chris Christie is in the White house in 2017.  (I think that theory is quickly waning, however, LOL)

      I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.

      by beemerr90s on Wed Feb 05, 2014 at 10:28:21 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  "Not to get on the ladder of life...." Huh? (17+ / 0-)

    Does he think they're a bunch of kids who would quit so they can smoke weed all day? It's about people who have spent 40 years on the ladder of life and would like to make room for the people who need to work.

    What a smug, entitled douchebag.

  •  Also, each of those people who voluntarily leave (5+ / 0-)

    the workforce opens up an opportunity for someone unemployed.

    "Nothing happens unless first a dream. " ~ Carl Sandburg

    by davewill on Wed Feb 05, 2014 at 09:54:14 AM PST

  •  A paradox - more jobs available (7+ / 0-)

    If people don't have to hold onto a job they don't want just for the health insurance, that opens up 2 million jobs for those who do want a job and don't have one.
    I think it bodes well for those under 30 in 2017.
    Thats also a good thing.

  •  It shows what he thinks of his constituents (7+ / 0-)

    that he automatically assumes that they'll be lazy, shiftless layabouts if given the slightest chance.

    No matter that some people, freed from corporate insurance plans, can now start a small business without paying through the nose for health insurance.  Or those who have worked for decades who might decide to retire at 62 and have Obamacare to bridge to Medicare.

    No, to him they're just slobs who aren't 'rising the income' (how incoherent is that, anyway?).  I'm so tired of this constant bashing of people without having a clue about their real lives.

    If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich." - John F. Kennedy

    by Dem Beans on Wed Feb 05, 2014 at 10:03:29 AM PST

  •  More accurately, (6+ / 0-)

    Ryan lapsed momentarily into "truthiness" but, predictably, drew all the wrong conclusions.

    It wasn't that long ago that Ryan was falling on his face — repeatedly — during the presidential campaign, pulling numbers out of his exhaust port that never added up.

    ... and yet, with the docile compliance of the MSM, the dullard is touted by the GOP as their 'budget expert'.  

  •  I read it also has to do with subsidies (0+ / 0-)

    There was a portion of the CBO though that is troubling.  That many people would forgo higher paying jobs so that they keep qualifying for subsidies and Medicare.

    But those subsidies don't come from nowhere, they come from working taxpayers.  So if more people are not working and taking subsidies, then the system is not sustainable.  If everyone did that, there'd be no one left to provide the subsidies.

    I still think we need to be focused on truly reducing the cost of healthcare, not just passing the bill down the line.

    •  That thought needs some number crunching, (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Norm in Chicago, TKO333

      I think.  At first blush, it seems to me that if someone gets a job that pays enough to reduce their subsidy it means that their total income has increased by more than the decrease in the subsidy.  

      We must, indeed, all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately. B. Franklin

      by Observerinvancouver on Wed Feb 05, 2014 at 10:47:52 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  but... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Norm in Chicago

      this only applies if the value of the subsidy (plus free time) is greater than the incremental income a person could gain.  People don't just take jobs so they can get health care - they also seek income to pay for things like food, clothing, shelter, and various discretionary things.  People aren't going to forego opportunities to improve their situation overall just to avoid a marginal increase in healthcare costs.  Yes, people might decline to take on just a bit more scut work, if that's all that's available to them.  But in general, if there's any real opportunity for them to benefit from taking a better job, they'll take it.

      Your point about reducing the costs, though, is dead on.  Only way to do that is to get the parasites out of the equation - the various people who don't actually provide healthcare, but who profit from being in the transactions - insurers, lawyers, etc.  That, and recognize that spending four years in medical school and a couple of years in a residency in a speciality doesn't entitle anybody to become a millionaire.

    •  On the other hand (0+ / 0-)

      in some cases it may be offsetting other costs.

      The parent who can stay home with the kids - that person may now no longer qualify for the childcare tax credit and may spend time volunteering in the community.

      Some of the elderly workers that retire will be from taxpayer supported jobs, and they'll be replaced by younger and less expensive workers.

      Fry, don't be a hero! It's not covered by our health plan!

      by elfling on Wed Feb 05, 2014 at 11:28:52 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Is "everyone" going to do that? (0+ / 0-)

      No.

  •  The thing that stopped me for 20 years (6+ / 0-)

    from creating my own consultancy was being a family man with a pre-existing, with a wife and kids that had to have health care.  

    I may have been one of the famed job creators had ACA been in place.  It always made more sense and I would have made considerably more loot.

    Sorry to tell them, I still wouldn't have joined their ranks, but just sayin.

    Wendy Davis, please.

    by tinfoilhat on Wed Feb 05, 2014 at 10:07:24 AM PST

  •  I am sure that he won't make this a habit (0+ / 0-)

    truthfulness is not something he will stick with - he's a politician!

  •  "ACA Will Cost Jobs" Promininent On Google News (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    FiredUpInCA, Do Something

    Sill as of this morning and it has been a few days since the CBO report. Of course the media outlets are FOX News, Forbes, etc. If the Republicans were dealing with this the talking points debunking would be coming from pundits and politicians far and wide. It would be mocked with edited clips on "The Daily Show". I long for the day when the Democrats respond with a coordinated debunking communication strategy that could be mocked on FOX News with edited clips.

  •  The liars are still liars (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    FiredUpInCA, shoeless, TKO333

    Regarding having to back off the "two million jobs lost" mantra - I am not sure that will put the brakes on Republicans' plans to use that. (I can see it now - "CBO proves Obamacare = JOBKILLER.")

    The easily verifiable facts regarding "Bette of Spokane's" false claim that her health insurance cost went up $700 didn't stop it from being paraded around. The IRS "scandal" has been demonstrated to be phony, but that didn't stop Fox from treating it, in the pre-Super Bowl interview with President Obama, as if it were a real event  that needed accounting for. The right wing has no scruples against flat-out making things up and lying.

    Ginny Mayer, Ph.D. Democrat CA State Senate Candidate - SD-35 (Orange County)

    by Ginny Mayer on Wed Feb 05, 2014 at 10:14:15 AM PST

  •  A stated goal of ACA is to contain costs (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    shoeless, elfling

    which inevitably means that to contain these costs, there will be fewer jobs than otherwise in the HCIC.

    So in that sense, yes the ACA will cost jobs.

    But presumably they will be made up elsewhere in the economy. In multiples.

  •  I lived in a country (3+ / 0-)

    that had universal health care, and my husband grew up in another.  Health care wasn't an employment issue, and I really don't think having single payer contributed to employment problems. If anything, paying for health care or finding an employer who would wasn't part of the stresses-of-life equation.

    We never had to consider benefits when we looked for work or eventually started our own business, and our family was always looked after--including for the few months that we were unemployed.

    People will continue to look for work and make the effort to remain employed because--Mr. Ryan--they like still need money to buy groceries and pay the rent. Having the government assist with insurance doesn't cover those bills.

  •  Rebublican House should try working some time (6+ / 0-)

    They could certainly use some dignity.

  •  Words of Art: "Job Creationism" nt (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Nance

    "Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will." ~Frederick Douglass

    by ActivistGuy on Wed Feb 05, 2014 at 10:15:44 AM PST

  •  Headline: ACA creates 2.5 million job openings (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    catwho, FiredUpInCA, ericlewis0, Nance

    Basically good news all around.  People who would retire if they could but haven't because of health insurance will now have the FREEDOM to do so and when they do a new job opening will appear.  So in effect the jobless rate will go down, people who need a job will have one and people who want to pursue other options in life will be able to.

    Explain again why this is a bad thing.....

    The difficulty lies not so much in developing new ideas as in escaping from old ones! - John Maynard Keynes

    by Do Something on Wed Feb 05, 2014 at 10:20:10 AM PST

  •  Paul Ryan doesn't believe motherhood is dignified (7+ / 0-)

    A lot of the people leaving the workforce are mothers who had to hold a job for the health insurance but would have rather been raising their children instead of farming that out to a stranger.

    So therefore... Paul Ryan must regard those women as undignified slackers for becoming fodder for his rich friends' labor supply.

    •  Dual income households are the norm (0+ / 0-)

      Wage stagnation and income disparity require both parents to work.

      This land is your land and this land is my land, sure, but the world is run by those that never listen to music anyway. ~ Bob Dylan ~

      by NCTim on Wed Feb 05, 2014 at 10:39:29 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Perhaps we should ask the headline writers (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        NCTim

        Really it would be nice if the media would do its job and analyze things instead of just repeating false talking points.

        The difficulty lies not so much in developing new ideas as in escaping from old ones! - John Maynard Keynes

        by Do Something on Wed Feb 05, 2014 at 10:44:54 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Change that to "parents" (0+ / 0-)

      Staying home with the kids isn't gender specific. :-)

      Fry, don't be a hero! It's not covered by our health plan!

      by elfling on Wed Feb 05, 2014 at 11:32:16 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  It isn't always (0+ / 0-)

        but it usually is. And in a better economy, the Dads are going to still get paid more. But that doesn't mean it's a bad thing if the Mom wanted to stay home all along and is now able to.

        •  Even though the majority of engineers are men (0+ / 0-)

          I'll still get annoyed when people don't acknowledge alternate possibilities.

          More families are situated so that a man is the one with a flexible kid-friendly employment situation in lieu of top salary. It's good to respect that.

          Fry, don't be a hero! It's not covered by our health plan!

          by elfling on Wed Feb 05, 2014 at 12:03:13 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  There are all kinds of possibilities. (0+ / 0-)

            What I respect is families adjusting their lives to fit their own needs and wishes. And now they can more easily.

            More families may be in the situation you describe. But that doesn't mean most. As annoying as that may be.

  •  Two things they will hate (3+ / 0-)

    First, there will be more competition with the big corporations that these workers have been giving their innovative ideas to by working there, and wages will have to go up because there will be fewer workers willing to put up with the low wages to get health care.

    Health care has been a huge club they have held over the heads of workers for a very long time now. The sooner all health care is separated from jobs, the better.



    Women create the entire labor force.
    ---------------------------------------------
    Sympathy is the strongest instinct in human nature. - Charles Darwin

    by splashy on Wed Feb 05, 2014 at 10:24:55 AM PST

    •  This is a nightmare for some bosses (4+ / 0-)
      Wages will have to go up because there will be fewer workers willing to put up with the low wages to get health care.

      Health care has been a huge club they have held over the heads of workers for a very long time now. The sooner all health care is separated from jobs, the better.

      They fear losing their best people, who may start a small consultancy of their own, allowing each party flex hours and time spent with their families, a livable wage and health insurance.

      The horrors.

      "I am not interested in picking up crumbs of compassion thrown from the table of someone who considers himself my master. I want the full menu of rights." (From "You Said a Mouthful" by Bishop Desmond Tutu - South African bishop & activist, b.1931)

      by FiredUpInCA on Wed Feb 05, 2014 at 10:42:10 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Doesnt this really "Create" 2 Million Jobs? (3+ / 0-)

    not having read all the gory details, from the top level it seems to me that the report says that maybe 2M people will stop working because they don't have to worry about health insurance/care.

    Methinks, that would translate to late career people who are only staying at work for health coverage.

    If they can retire/stop working, then it should open positions for younger people starting out, needing jobs.

    A win-win in that case.

    As John Kay sang -

    Yesterday's glory
    Won't help us today
    You wanna retire?
    Get out of the way

     http://www.youtube.com/...

    •  They may also leave to start new businesses (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      a2nite

      they otherwise couldn't afford to do.  And become job creators.  Imagine that.

      •  maybe, but not likely (0+ / 0-)

        I think people who are motivated to start a business are doing it for a lot of different reasons.

        Health care coverage is only one of the many challenges and risks to an person starting up a business.  Probably way down the list from capital, location, competition, customers, cash flow, etc. etc.

        This is why 90%+ of workers have little/no interest in starting/running a business.

        I do know, however, a number of people who continue to work only because of concerns about health coverage.  

        If we had true national health service, medicare for all, single payer, then I think a lot of people would stop working and jobs would open up for younger people.

        ACA only hints at what a real system might look like.

  •  Please spare me (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Observerinvancouver

    My stomach turns over every time I see tight, lipless smile on his smug face.

  •  Why is the GOP whining? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    a2nite, FiredUpInCA

    That was one of the most hideous aspects of the pre-ACA structure: the fact that your boss had your health and often your very life in his or her hands, or worse, the life and health of your spouse or child. So now your boss no longer has that power? Good. get a better job; open your own shop; all that good Republican stuff.

    Not only that, it should make Republicans smile to think that a softhearted boss , who is keeping incompetents on because s/he can't stand throwing their healthcare to the wolves, might now feel free to streamline.  Republicans like that. As Mitt Romney said, "I enjoy firing people."

    •  You answered your question (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Observerinvancouver, Nance

      "the fact that your boss had your health and often your very life in his or her hands, or worse, the life and health of your spouse or child" is the answer.  

      The GOP and their corporate sponsors really only want "freedom" to mean nothing left to loose.  Otherwise they want you working for diminishing wages with few options.  Better for profits that way.

      The difficulty lies not so much in developing new ideas as in escaping from old ones! - John Maynard Keynes

      by Do Something on Wed Feb 05, 2014 at 10:47:33 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  That made me think of the heyday of the (0+ / 0-)

        railways when they set freight rates that gouged almost every last penny out of farmers wanting to send their crops to market.  

        Worked splendidly for the railways for a few decades but spurred desperate searches for alternatives.  

        We must, indeed, all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately. B. Franklin

        by Observerinvancouver on Wed Feb 05, 2014 at 10:58:49 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Ryan lied about why he doesn't like this. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Do Something, FiredUpInCA

    This is another reason for Republicans to hate it. The last thing they want is a tight labor market. That might hurt the bottom line for the 1%, even though it would be a boon for the overall economy.

    ''Over the last 30 odd years, Democrats have moved to the right and the right has moved into the mental hospital."-Bill Maher

    by shoeless on Wed Feb 05, 2014 at 10:47:06 AM PST

  •  I love this photo of Ryan's smarmy face. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Observerinvancouver

    It personifies the very definition of smarmy.

    "For we, the people, understand that our country cannot succeed when a shrinking few do very well and a growing many barely make it." - President Barack Obama, Second Inaugural Address, January 21, 2013.

    by surfermom on Wed Feb 05, 2014 at 10:52:22 AM PST

  •  a realization (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Observerinvancouver

    I've come to the conclusion that the real reason people like him don't like the idea of someone not working is that it means someone is no longer making Ryan's friends rich.

  •  The fact is that many full time workers in two (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Nance, elfling, FiredUpInCA

    full time worker families would prefer to have 1.5 jobs at times because of parental and or child issues.

    Because this country forces the care of our parents onto us with little or no help, often helping to bankrupt or severely tax the finances of a family, the stress in families to meet both roles... full time worker and part to full time parental caretaker is a near impossibility.

    I've been through the parental issue and it forced me to quit my job. I couldn't do both as a sole income provider and thus, I lived in pretty destitute financial situations for a long time. I burned through my savings. At one point, and I worked as the only office person in a small business, I had to be gone from my job three days a week for four hours/day.  My boss was furious with me. I had no other alternative as I had no other family to share the burden.

    The entire system remains screwed up, but at least this is a bit better.  

    202-224-3121 to Congress in D.C. USE it! You can tell how big a person is by what it takes to discourage them. "We're not perfect, but they're nuts."--Barney Frank 01/02/2012

    by cany on Wed Feb 05, 2014 at 10:59:48 AM PST

    •  You nailed it. (0+ / 0-)

      I would like to see some support for part-time workers:  encourage employers to provide support for healthcare, child care.  
      It's a quality of life issue--the society is becoming ever more unequal with work:  we have the overemployed, ever fewer, and the underemployed.

      It's the microeconomy, stupid!

      by chinshihtang on Thu Feb 06, 2014 at 01:22:58 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  When Paul Ryan got his college tuition paid for (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Nance, a2nite, elfling, FiredUpInCA

    by the government as part of his deceased father's disability payments, young Ryan was rejecting the dignity of work by his failure to immediately enter the work force.  Paul Ryan was one of them moochers, he talks so much about.

    To write a Republican Party talking point on a policy issue, any policy issue, all you need is: a noun, a verb, and 'Obamacare'.

    by MARTinNJ on Wed Feb 05, 2014 at 11:03:22 AM PST

  •  Yeah, nothing quite like the incentive (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    FiredUpInCA

    of needing more than one minimum wage job in order to live and have health insurance.

    Sometimes it's almost too much to wrap my brain around the penultimate douchebaggery of Ryan. The man is so devoid of empathy that his picture is under the definition of sociopath.

    He would truly be dangerous with real, unchecked power. He would do great harm.

  •  "The dignity of work???" (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Nance, FiredUpInCA

    What the hell do these jack-asses know about work? They haven't done a damn thing since they've been there. Not to mention the fact that Paul Ryan INHERITED his money.

    "Onward through the fog!" - Oat Willie

    by rocksout on Wed Feb 05, 2014 at 11:15:41 AM PST

  •  What if all these (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    FiredUpInCA

    people leaving their jobs can now be stay-at-home Moms? Shouldn't the Rs think that is just ducky?

  •  What I would like to ask Paul Ryan (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    FiredUpInCA

    and all Republicans who will go on about moochers once they understand what the CBO report actually said:  What is so bad about the following (hypothetical) scenario?  

    Mary and John Smith are married with three young children, one of whom has special needs. John Smith is working hard, trying to start a business (he wants to be a maker not a taker). His business is promising but so far isn't bringing in much money.  Because the family needs health insurance, Mary Smith has been working full time, although she would have preferred to work part time.  Now, however, because of ACA Mary is able to work part time, spend more time caring for her children [yes, I know I am using traditional gender roles in this hypothetical but I am talking to conservatives] and also, perhaps, help John build his business.  

    So, someone please tell me why the new situation the Smith family finds itself in (with implementation of ACA) is so appalling to Republicans?  

    I know this is a hypothetical but I feel confident that many, many individuals or families would recognize some of the circumstances of the Smith family.

  •  Crisis in wageslavery (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    FiredUpInCA

    Breaking nuz
    People too sick to work voluntarily working less.

    Next up
    Wage slaves rebelling. Demanding a living wage.

  •  what (0+ / 0-)

    man bites gog, the sun sets in the east, apple pie sucks, will the miracles never end!

    save america defeat all republicans and conservatives

  •  No. Not truth. Positioning himself to-- (0+ / 0-)

    -- pickup soon-to-be-ex-Christie-for-President-donors.

    And Ryan doesn't care if he wins the nomination-- as long as he accumulates the ensuant war chest.

    Positioning with the (R) donor whales is the real ticket!

    It's all about the g(R)ift!

    jw1

    “If you realized how powerful your thoughts are, you would never think a negative thought.” --Peace Pilgrim

    by jw1 on Wed Feb 05, 2014 at 12:25:34 PM PST

  •  republic for which it stands (0+ / 0-)

    In a republic a nation deserves its gov. this has been lost on the American people.

    Empires have one thing in common. the ability to self destruct from their own arrogance and ignorance and imperialism.

    An example of ignorance: after 9/11 Americans wanted revenge which cost them two illegal wars, trillions of dollars, wars with two Muslim nations and an  expanded      intelligence complex that now spy's on all Americans.

    The good news no empire in history has survived its own arrogance and ignorance. universal principle of cause and effect.

  •  Nothing this stunod says is surprising. (0+ / 0-)

    The creepy assface speaks of "getting" the "dignity of work"? fn nerve.
    115 days out of 365? Gym? Platinum healthcare? Being thought wonky when that's at least a planet or three away?

    "He went to Harvard, not Hogwarts." ~Wanda Sykes
    Teh Twitterz, I'z awn dem.
    Blessinz of teh Ceiling Cat be apwn yu, srsly.

    by OleHippieChick on Wed Feb 05, 2014 at 04:57:11 PM PST

  •  For Cryan out loud (0+ / 0-)

    Maybe some,not all of those 2 million people leaving the work force were forced to continue to work ( people on SS, the infirm, etc)  for meager health care or RX benefits. So now, with ACA they may be able to enjoy some degree of their retirement. I realize it is the Republiclowns wish that we all work for pennies and drop dead on the job. But, hopefully some young people will get to fill those jobs. Now all we have to do is raise the minimum wage to a livable level and maybe the economy will slowly improve.

  •  Paul Ryan & GOTP not creating any legislation that (0+ / 0-)

    When Mr. Ryan will your party do any thing to pass job creating legislators?
    Shutting down the Government and repeatedly costing Americans money by voting to repeal the ACA when the GOTP knew it would not pass the House.

    No Immigration Bill. No Infrastructure Bill and it goes on and on. You are a disappointment to Me, Ohioans, and the Country.

    Almost whenever your lips move, you are lying. Embarrassing your Mother in your failed bid as a Vice Presidential Candidate now that the ACA is working even with the obstructionist policies and road blocks your party throws out there. Now all her friends know what a joke you are.....bc  

  •  Even a psychopath may find the truth to be useful (0+ / 0-)

    Who keeps electing Paul Ryan to office? Don't they notice that he's a CAREER POLITICIAN who LIES whenever it's useful in order to HURT OTHER PEOPLE? I often find myself believing this is the sickest guy in Washington. Then I think about the Neo-Conservatives in general, how severely they've damaged my country and I wonder if Ryan isn't just a pussy psycho.

  •  Held Hostage By Medical Insurance (0+ / 0-)

    Think of the people who are in the wrong job, but cannot leave because they depend on the medical insurance that job pays for.

    Now think of those people suddenly released to do the right job, the job they love, the job that they will be really good at, the job of starting up a company that will eventually employ thousands.

    Republicans thing that people are only motivated by money.  They have a pretty dismal view of human nature.

  •  Chances are ... (0+ / 0-)

    ... if the only reason you are remaining employed is to keep your health insurance, then you are very likely an older American - i. e., you are closer to 60 than to 30.  It seems to me that if a significant number of employed Americans over the age of, say, 55, were to leave their jobs - for WHATEVER reason - then there will be a significant number of jobs becoming available for younger Americans.  (If it seems that I somehow only give a crap about American workers, that's because I AM one, as are pretty much all of my friends and family, thank you very much.)

    Sounds like a win-win to me ... of course, I'm NOT a Republican, so what do I know?

    OF COURSE the New Right is wrong - but that doesn't make WRONG the new RIGHT!

    by mstaggerlee on Thu Feb 06, 2014 at 01:52:38 PM PST

  •  Ryan still misleading re the 2 Million FTE's (0+ / 0-)

    "...Obamacare ... encouraging Americans "not to get on the ladder of life, to begin working, getting the dignity of work.
    Samo samo - either he's really stupid or really cynical. It's painfully obvious that the people who will opt out of full time jobs (or their current ones) are those who've been in workforce for a good while, have a partner who has income, probably has paid off their home, etc.

    What the hell good would it do a 20-year-old who decides not to work, to have subsidized healthcare but no income to pay the premiums, no less to pay for food, clothing, shelter etc.? None. That's why his argument is as bad as all his cronies' in the House, Senate, and on Fox et al.

  •  What GopT is NOT saying (0+ / 0-)

    is that GopT argues they want to make America strong again, and that means that American workers be competitive in the job marketplace. And Boehner and GOPT legislators of all levels are the first to tell you that they are continually introducing legislation to end unions, get rid of all these middle class government jobs, get rid of EPA air, ground and water job-killing rules and laws. They are striving to make American Workers more competitive in the world ... first with China, next with India and then with Bangladesh.

  •  I don't know (0+ / 0-)

    Honestly, I don't know how I feel about this.  I don't want people to suffer because they don't have insurance.  I don't want the elderly to suffer without it.  I don't want people with disabilities to be in positions where they have to perform some taxing activity that is bad for them, all in order to have insurance.

    But what this says is: if you need insurance, some one else will give it to you.  You know what, we shouldn't pretend that human nature is something that it isn't.  People who can't provide for themselves in some way, shouldn't have to.  But I'll be honest, I don't know how I feel about people who just decide that they don't want to...  Of course, this frees up a job for someone who does want it.  But that person then basically has to 'produce' enough for their own insurance as well as the person who isn't working.

    Now, the person who isn't "working" is then free to do something that will provide some value in some other way (be an artist, volunteer, start a small business, etc.).  But just pretending like it will all work out, without some analysis or something.  Again, this isn't like providing some help to people who need it.  We're talking about people who just don't want to work anymore...

  •  Oh Mr. Ryan - your reality check has bounced (0+ / 0-)

    How exactly will Americans get on the ladder of life, begin working and get the dignity of work when so many are not working because their jobs were outsourced from underneath them and the jobs created pay minimum wage? How will things like this improve while you push FastTrack and TPP, measures that will expedite further outsourcing of jobs?

  •  Lies about Obamacare (0+ / 0-)

    "Americans for Prosperity" is running a negative ad that features a woman who has Lupus.  It is a horrible disease, one nobody would want.  However, the Lupus patient is lying about Obamacare is costing her $6,000 more because her old policy was canceled.

    B-A-L-O-N-E-Y-!  If her policy was substandard, which it had to be, she was not getting top-notch care.  Now, she complains, she is having to pay more than $6,000 more than before.

    Uh huh.  Yeah.  Whatever.  The real message is "Obama, you lied to me."

    If you don't already know, "American for Prosperity" is owned lock, stock and barrel by the damned KOCH BROTHERS!

    Their goal is to BUY THE GOVERNMENT.  They are plutocrats who are dying to get all of their candidates (Teapublicans all) into office so they can tell them what to do.  That is called an Oligarchy.  They are so right wing that they are almost to the right of Hitler.  Their bottom line desire is to bring Fascism to the United States.

    Fascism is always a right wing "religious" bigots.  Don't take my word for it, take a look at the fascist states in the past 100 years or so.  STOP THE LYING!

  •  TODD STAPLES IS A LIAR RUNNING FOR TX LT GOV. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tubaguy

    According to Todd Staples, he sued the president for his "job killing regulations."

    The president cannot be sued!  And he does not write regulations.

    Another loser in the Lieutenant Governor's race is saying that he will fight against Obama's attacks on Texas.  What the hell is he talking about?

  •  *** (0+ / 0-)

    I wish you would have also mentioned that those two million vacated jobs will be filled by two million others. I know it's implied, but some things must be said!

  •  Lyin' Ryan keeps his foot on the neck of the 99% (0+ / 0-)

    I think that Lyin' Ryan just doesn't want the rest of Americans to be working as little as he and our other congressmen do…all the while hauling in the big bucks.

    These guys work maybe three days a week (and not every week either), take outrageous "out of session" breaks, and when they are "in session" they are not legislating for their constituents (or even reading the legislation they will be voting on), but rather "representing" their "pay to play" lobbyists and corporate 1%.

    Talk about a cushy job!

    I'd like to see Congress put in an honest 40 hrs per week. And no part of those hours would be spent campaigning, traveling or sucking cash out of the many orifices where they always seem to find cash these days.

    Lyin' Ryan and his congressional buddies don't want any other folks to get the idea that they can survive without working 40 hours a week. That benefit is only for Congress.

  •  Getting the Terms Right... (0+ / 0-)

    Can we stop calling it "The ACA" or "Obamacare" and, instead, getting it right with "Insurance Industry Windfall Act"?

    Isn't that utterly valid and potentially widely informative?

    Considering that for-profit insurers invest many billions into Wall Street investments (including billions alone just into cigarette manufacturing), how about "Wall Street Windfall Act" ?
     Isn't the IIWA (Insurance Industry Windfall Act) even a bigger gift to Wall Street than the earlier "bail out"?  

    It is ominous that "the left" continues to use Corporate rhetoric so easily and mindlessly.   Those terms are from the Corporatocracy, including commercial media, without a shred of useful meaning.  

  •  Jobs (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tubaguy

    A lot of people will be quitting 2nd or 3rd jobs, and some will be quitting bad jobs they only kept for the insurance.

    More time with families, less involuntary servitude.  

    Thank you Obamacare.

  •  Probably not but maybe! (0+ / 0-)

    DON'T COUNT ON THAT!

  •  Ryan the Moocher (0+ / 0-)

    WTF would he know about the dignity of work when he's been at the public trough all his life as a "career politician"???   The biggest liars and hypcrites ever and when he Boner, McConnell et.al die they are gonna get the work they truly deserve, shoveling fuel into the white hot furnaces of HELL!   For their indignities and egregious stinginess even SCROOGE can't compete with them!   As a true Christian not a religious fool or a churchianity advocate I can honestly say that Jesus is, in my humble opine, gonna look at them and say, "AWAY FROM ME, I NEVER KNEW YOU!"  

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