Skip to main content

This week's White House visit by French President Francois Hollande has prompted Beltway talk of a new love affair between the United States and France. While McClatchy announced "Obama, Hollande declare U.S. and France bosom buddies again," the Washington Post reported "Obama and Hollande stress common ground." The Post's Dana Milbank went further in describing "Obama's dalliance with the French." Writing in Milbank's paper, the two presidents co-authored a joint op-ed highlighting the nations' close cooperation on Libya, Syria and the Iranian nuclear program, declaring:

A decade ago, few would have imagined our two countries working so closely together in so many ways. But in recent years our alliance has transformed. Since France's return to NATO's military command four years ago and consistent with our continuing commitment to strengthen the NATO- European Union partnership, we have expanded our cooperation across the board. We are sovereign and independent nations that make our decisions based on our respective national interests. Yet we have been able to take our alliance to a new level because our interests and values are so closely aligned.
To be sure, America's relations with France began to improve the moment George W. Bush left the Oval Office and took his "Freedom Fries" with him. But the Franco-American alliance also in part owes its renewed strength to our good fortune that neither John McCain nor Mitt Romney succeeded Bush as our France-bashing Commander-in-Chief.

As President Bush prepared to pull the trigger on the Iraq war in February 2003, John McCain was at the forefront of those browbeating France for its refusal to back the U.S. at the United Nations. On February 10, 2003, McCain declared on MSNBC's Hardball:

"Look, I don't mean to try to be snide, but the Lord said the poor will always be with us. The French will always be with us, too."
Please read below the fold for more on this article.

McCain's venom toward the French was on full display two days later during a speech at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. On February 13, 2003, McCain warned of "new threats to civilization [which] again defy our imagination in scale and potency" portrayed Iraq as "threat of the first order." He proclaimed that "the United States does not have reliable allies to implement a policy to contain Iraq" and pointed the finger squarely at France:

"Compare our great power allies in the Cold War with those with whom we act today in dealing with Iraq.

France has unashamedly pursued a concerted policy to dismantle the UN sanctions regime, placing its commercial interests above international law, world peace and the political ideals of Western civilization. Remember them? Liberte, egalite, fraternite."

Then on the 18th, the Australian Broadcasting Corporation's Lateline program highlighted McCain's antipathy toward France:
Here's how influential Senator John McCain sees the French.

JOHN MCCAIN, REPUBLICAN SENATOR: They remind me of an aging movie actress in the 1940s who is still trying to dine out on her looks but doesn't have the face for it.

NORMAN HERMANT: Many in Washington are now saying relations with France have been a problem going all the way back to the end of World War II.

SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN: Perhaps Churchill and Roosevelt made a very serious mistake when they decided to give France a veto in the Security Council when the United Nations was organized.

As for Mitt Romney, who spent his Vietnam War years as a missionary in Paris instead of the rice paddies of Southeast Asia, France is a symbol of everything the United States should never be. And during his 2008 and 2012 presidential campaign, "France" was the reason he claimed neither Hillary Clinton nor Barack Obama should be in the White House.

Throughout 2012, Governor Romney assailed President Obama for supposedly wanting to create "an entitlement society" in which "government should create equal outcomes." As he put it in Iowa, "I think he believes America should become a European-style welfare state." Then after his victory in New Hampshire, Romney repeated that Obama "wants to turn America into a European-style entitlement society" and "takes his inspiration from the capitals of Europe."

And during his failed 2008 effort to secure the GOP nomination, Romney made no secret of which European capital he meant. In February 2007, the Boston Globe obtained a 77-slide Powerpoint presentation laying out the Romney campaign's approach for the challenges and competitors he would face in 2008. The document detailed strategies for overcoming his reputation as a "flip-flopper," addressing his Mormon faith, defeating John McCain and, most of all, beating Hillary Clinton in the general election. If the language drafted by his consultant Alex Castellanos sounded familiar (the same Alex Castellanos who then as now serves as a CNN regular despite calling Hillary Clinton a "bitch" on the air), it should:

The plan, for instance, indicates that Romney will define himself in part by focusing on and highlighting enemies and adversaries, such common political targets as "jihadism," the "Washington establishment," and taxes, but also Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton, "European-style socialism," and, specifically, France. Even Massachusetts, where Romney has lived for almost 40 years, is listed as one of those "bogeymen," alongside liberalism and Hollywood values...

Enmity toward France, where Romney did his Mormon mission during college, is a recurring theme of the document. The European Union, it says at one point, wants to "drag America down to Europe's standards," adding: "That's where Hillary and Dems would take us. Hillary = France." The plan even envisions "First, not France" bumper stickers.

Luckily for citizens on both sides of the Atlantic, neither John McCain nor Mitt Romney finished first. Which helps explain why the relationship between the United States and France is now first-rate.

Originally posted to Jon Perr on Wed Feb 12, 2014 at 01:42 PM PST.

Also republished by Daily Kos.

Your Email has been sent.
You must add at least one tag to this diary before publishing it.

Add keywords that describe this diary. Separate multiple keywords with commas.
Tagging tips - Search For Tags - Browse For Tags


More Tagging tips:

A tag is a way to search for this diary. If someone is searching for "Barack Obama," is this a diary they'd be trying to find?

Use a person's full name, without any title. Senator Obama may become President Obama, and Michelle Obama might run for office.

If your diary covers an election or elected official, use election tags, which are generally the state abbreviation followed by the office. CA-01 is the first district House seat. CA-Sen covers both senate races. NY-GOV covers the New York governor's race.

Tags do not compound: that is, "education reform" is a completely different tag from "education". A tag like "reform" alone is probably not meaningful.

Consider if one or more of these tags fits your diary: Civil Rights, Community, Congress, Culture, Economy, Education, Elections, Energy, Environment, Health Care, International, Labor, Law, Media, Meta, National Security, Science, Transportation, or White House. If your diary is specific to a state, consider adding the state (California, Texas, etc). Keep in mind, though, that there are many wonderful and important diaries that don't fit in any of these tags. Don't worry if yours doesn't.

You can add a private note to this diary when hotlisting it:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from your hotlist?
Are you sure you want to remove your recommendation? You can only recommend a diary once, so you will not be able to re-recommend it afterwards.
Rescue this diary, and add a note:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from Rescue?
Choose where to republish this diary. The diary will be added to the queue for that group. Publish it from the queue to make it appear.

You must be a member of a group to use this feature.

Add a quick update to your diary without changing the diary itself:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary?
(The diary will be removed from the site and returned to your drafts for further editing.)
(The diary will be removed.)
Are you sure you want to save these changes to the published diary?

Comment Preferences

  •  This is what money with absolutely (14+ / 0-)

    NO class nets you, pompous ignorant blowhards.

  •  Without the French in the 1770s (12+ / 0-)

    We would be watching Australia / South Africa in cricket this week with the rest of the erstwhile colonies.

    •  No (0+ / 0-)

      You would likely be watching the Six Nations Rugby (which includes France and Italy as well as the nations of the British Isles)

      "Come to Sochi, visit the gay clubs and play with the bears" - NOT a Russian advertising slogan.

      by Lib Dem FoP on Wed Feb 12, 2014 at 02:35:25 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Just imagine! (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      exlrrp, Smoh

      Real football would never have been invented  Oh, the humanity!

      Here's my take on it - the revolution will not be blogged, it has to be slogged. - Deoliver47

      by OIL GUY on Wed Feb 12, 2014 at 03:04:36 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I love seeing TeaParty heads explode (0+ / 0-)

      when you tell them that one of the main reasons that the US won their independence was the support of France.

      (Also, that Thomas Jefferson was a Francophile, and that both John Adams and Benjamin Franklin worked on the Treaty of Alliance with France that was signed in 1778)

      It's been estimated that France supplied the US forces with 90% of the gunpowder that was used in the war, along with several hundred thousand uniforms, guns that were superior to those of the British forces, ships, military advice, etc.


  •  The French love Obama (17+ / 0-)

    and the Rethugs can't stand that fact.  

    French bashing is such a cheap, shallow trick and it's one that, malheureusement, passes for amusing in many quarters.

    McCain and Romney are both ignorant snots.

    It's the Supreme Court, stupid!

    by Radiowalla on Wed Feb 12, 2014 at 02:04:04 PM PST

    •  I wish that I had more than one rec to give (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TXdem, GAS, Radiowalla

      your post.

      The Republican motto: "There's been a lot of progress in this country over the last 75 years, and we've been against all of it."

      by Hillbilly Dem on Wed Feb 12, 2014 at 02:06:29 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  The French love Obama (0+ / 0-)

      Who, or indeed what, is a Rethug? is it a sub-species of bedbug? Do not really care one iota to know your politicians as I am English and not obsessed with hype but substance (sorry my sad, colonialist, far removed and media-lobotomised cousins vous etres TRES gullible). It really is of no consequence how, or if ,we frog-bash - we ARE English and (apparently!!??) European.  (They LIE - we are Anglo Saxon). WE have earned the right - we have fought the ratbags for quite a few centuries and anyway, they are OUR continent - NOT yours!!  Please bear with the 1000 year plus history of punch-ups between us and the smelly. soap dodging, garlic-whiffing four-legged jumpy, pond-mud dwelling creatures that we lovingly call froggies. Aren't hyphenated words glorious fun?  You, unfortunately for you, are not of our world but merely American.. Please do not attempt to understand centuries of European relationships just because you can spell the word malheuresemt (Whoops, did I spell that correctly? Do I care?" Tongue in cheek - savvy?). That  - my Dear Johnny Yank is IRONY - do they teach that in American schools along with Creationism and the well known scientific fact that Darwin was a Satanist? One final note of particular annoyance in these Anglo quarters is simply as follows; PLEASE, PLEASE stop this incessant exportation of "can I get?" (various potential answers - probably, maybe, come back next Tuesday and I will think about it, only if you are wearing red knickers, give me a kiss and we will see, only if your dog sings the Aria from Mme Butterfly, (but please do not be presumptuous enough to expect Tomato Sauce in this instance unless it is performed in the style of Dame Kiri te Kanawa!!) instead of "I would like a ...." One is a question - the other a request. The English version is customarily finalised with a "please" as a politeness rather than a question. Loves ya babe.... To conclude, I find French bashing highly amusing personally but sadly lacking in any formidable retort - they (Les Frogs) are all far too busy contemplating and admiring their own belly-buttons (navels to you!) and therefore are obviously a waste of mental exercise and oh so easy as targets. x watch a French film and tell me I lie. have a nice day y'all (I learnt that from American films - c'est tres simple non?) Blimey, glad to get that off my chest!

    •  I remember how Fox trashed France when they (7+ / 0-)

      wouldn't join Bush's war. I remember that sniggering prick Brit Hume in particular putting France down.

      And for years Leno made jokes about France being chicken.
      Screw them both.

      "The soil under the grass is dreaming of a young forest, and under the pavement the soil is dreaming of grass."--Wendell Berry

      by Wildthumb on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 08:33:18 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  The French are not without critisism (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Wildthumb, buffie, METAL TREK

        But the whole "French are cowards" really bugs me. French foreign policy, even before there was a France, was to keep Germany from becoming a unified country. It worked for centuries. As soon as Germany unified they invaded France three times and took Paris twice. The first world war when Paris was held wasn't exactly a French victory either. Not really an indictment of French courage, more a validation of their foreign policy chops.

        There is truth on all sides. The question is how much.

        by slothlax on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 09:12:34 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Who? n/t required (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    “He talks a lot and he's not very bright. And that's a combination I like in Republicans.” James Carville

    by Mokislab on Wed Feb 12, 2014 at 02:09:27 PM PST

  •  they're jealous of not having official mistresses (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    La Gitane

    and having to either have multiple marriages or wives

    Warning - some snark may be above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 "I’m not the strapping young Muslim socialist that I used to be" - Barack Obama 04/27/2013 (@eState4Column5).

    by annieli on Wed Feb 12, 2014 at 02:11:39 PM PST

    •  Hasn't John McCain had at least two wives, and (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Brown Thrasher

      with Mitt, should he cleave to the historical roots of his religious preference, another wife or two may not be out of the question.

      And it feels like I'm livin'in the wasteland of the free ~ Iris DeMent, 1996

      by MrJersey on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 09:27:22 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  the ultra rich and their servant class (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TXdem, La Gitane, GAS

    which of course includes bought off politicians...

    still have not forgiven the French for that pesky revolution they had. Such events are never to be forgotten by those whose heads would be eligible for the baskets in modern times. It's in all their textbooks..

    and the nerve of the modern day bunch over there raising taxes on the rich by more than a pittance without a total all-out political class war.

    •  I think you nailed it (4+ / 0-)

      that's exactly the problem.  They cannot afford letting our poor people know how much better off French poor people have it.  And you know, our poor people have refrigerators, phones and microwaves and stuff.  Their poor people only have housing, food and healthcare... oh yeah - and they have that other stuff too.

      (I realize France still has many income inequality problems, especially in Paris, but for the most part it is definitely much easier to live there than here on an equivalent income)

      Money should be treated like any other controlled substance; if you can't use it responsibly then you don't get to use it.

      by La Gitane on Wed Feb 12, 2014 at 02:37:05 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  It's like those French have a different word (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    La Gitane, tampaedski, markdd, GAS, Radiowalla

    ... for everything!

    "I was in Paris about two months ago. And let me give you a warning if you're going over there; here's an example: chapo means hat. Ooof means egg. It's like those French have a different word for everything. You never appreciate your language until you go to a foreign country that doesn't have the courtesy to speak English. "  

    - Steve Martin

    Il est dangereux d’avoir raison dans des choses où des hommes accrédités ont tort. - Voltaire
    Don't trust anyone over 84414 - BentLiberal

    by BentLiberal on Wed Feb 12, 2014 at 02:26:02 PM PST

  •  They got nuthin'. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Why do I have the feeling George W. Bush joined the Stonecutters, ate a mess of ribs, and used the Constitution as a napkin?

    by Matt Z on Wed Feb 12, 2014 at 02:46:13 PM PST

  •  I love having to put myself in the position of (0+ / 0-)

    correcting les deux présidents.  

    A decade ago, few would have imagined our two countries working so closely together in so many ways. But in recent years our alliance has transformed.
    After 9-11 was the one and only time that Article 5 of the
    North Atlantic Treaty (that's the N, the A, and the T in NATO) was invoked. That's the part that obligates members to protect and defend each other. And France sent troops to Afghanistan in 2002.

    They remained there about a decade until about a year ago.  Hollande should remember because withdrawing them ahead of schedule was a campaign promise he made when he ran for president in 2012. It was after the solemn ceremony with 4 caskets on display and the entire nation in mourning exactly 2 years ago when public opinion turned against the war.

    There were about 4,000 troops there which is a decent amount considering for the relative size of our two countries.

    These two clown Presidents aren't doing themselves any favors in France with this trip. Hollande's favorable rating is at 19%. The picture of them together was dubbed "Laurel and Hardy" which fits.

    Hollande brought along the head of MEDEF which is a kind of union for employers, not labor. The 'boss of bosses' took the opportunity to call a mini-press conference of his own right in the middle of the trip to bash Hollande while demanding (tax) breaks for business and job creators.

    People who think that Obama is a stooge for corporate interests, multiply that by 1000 for the opinion of the French about the leader of their Socialist Party. It takes effort to reach 19% approval.

    Obama's not doing himself any favors either.  What would an ordinary French citizen think when he reads about "a transformed alliance?" Agreed that it is transformed and despite the NSA the US is still a lot nicer to France than the Soviet Union ever was to Hungary or Czechoslovakia.  (It's a joke.)

    There is no existence without doubt.

    by Mark Lippman on Wed Feb 12, 2014 at 02:50:12 PM PST

    •  I don't get the joke (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      The US is certainly a lot better to France than the USSR was to Hungry or Czechoslovakia.

      There is truth on all sides. The question is how much.

      by slothlax on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 09:23:08 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  It's ridicules the US for turning into another (0+ / 0-)

        version of the USSR and it ridicules France for its diminished status in the world comparable to the eastern European countries during the Cold War.  Hungary was invaded by the Soviet Union in 1956 and Czechoslovakia was invaded in 1968.  The USSR was known for exerting tight control of eastern Europe with systematic spying and propaganda. The secret activities of the NSA would be expected of the Soviet Union, but not the US.

        Humor has many formulas. Putting two things that are incongruous together as if they were similar is one form.
        The French know that the US is not similar to the USSR.
        They don't see their own country in a class with Hungary or Czecholovakia either. This part may be obscure to Americans, but the French consider their country to be 'exceptional.' It's a nuclear power, its culture is influential around the world, it's a highly developed democracy, and it has one of the highest standards of living. It also sees itself as the true mother country of the US and partners in revolution from 1776 to 1789. The Statue of Liberty in New York Harbor is a symbol of this bond.

        Considering the sentimental attachment a lot of French feel toward America, their fondness and admiration, the humor comes from comparing their relationship to the relationship of two other countries.  There was little love for the Soviet Union in Hungary or Czechoslovakia.

        At the same time, it's an expression of anxiety. The French watch events in the US very closely. It's not unusual to read a newspaper article about the free-trade agreement quoting Elizabeth Warren. They are much more familiar with what happens here than vice versa. They have a lot of the same problems.

        There is no existence without doubt.

        by Mark Lippman on Fri Feb 14, 2014 at 04:12:50 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Romney had to bad mouth France (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Radiowalla, Smoh

    His proper conservative bona fides were suspect because he had lived there and spoke the language.

    “Texas is a so-called red state, but you’ve got 10 million Democrats here in Texas. And …, there are a whole lot of people here in Texas who need us, and who need us to fight for them.” President Obama

    by Catte Nappe on Wed Feb 12, 2014 at 04:05:27 PM PST

    •  Considering Romney's criminal history (0+ / 0-)

      in France, no wonder.

      Google [ leola anderson romney ]

      The year was 1968. Romney had six passengers in a five-passenger Citroen and mistook a three lane roadway for two lanes. He drove head-on into an on-coming left turn lane, hitting a Mercedes driven by Bishop Vilnet, a Catholic priest.

      A year later Ted Kennedy went out to Chappaquiddick and went off the little bridge with Mary Jo Kopechne. Kennedy was out front at 11 AM the next morning with an up front statement.

      Equivalent tragedies, opposite approaches to honesty and reality.

      Republicans lie about everything they think they can possibly get away with. It's nothing but sad to watch. Then they go off into their alternate universe and insist that lies ARE the reality.

      Consider Obamacare, immigration, American deaths from terrorism since 2009, and global warming for broader examples. They're at their best when incoherent in the style of Ted Nugent.

      "I hesitate to agree with Ted Nugent...."

      by waterstreet2013 on Fri Feb 14, 2014 at 06:51:12 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  God forbid that (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Smoh, MyLifeInKenya

    our president have a cordial relationship with one of our allies.

  •  My Gawd. Will we ever live down the shame (7+ / 0-)

    …,that those two sicknesses were Presidential candidates?

  •  And yet (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    gffish, Radiowalla

    It was Congressional Republicans who rolled over like cheese-eating surrender monkeys and supplied enough votes to pass a clean debt ceiling bill.

  •  "Don't throw me in that briar patch" (9+ / 0-)

    The same France that dominated Europe militarily for 2 centuries, saved the fledgling American ass and that has 2 hour lunches and 30 days paid vacation, free day care and education?

    sounds better than 'right to work' and 60 hour weeks at $8.00 an hour.

    Joy shared is doubled. Pain shared is halved. Spider Robinson

    by nolagrl on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 08:28:15 PM PST

  •  Let's see. McCain or Voltaire? Whom do I choose? (7+ / 0-)

    Sacre bleu, how difficult a choice!!!

    "The soil under the grass is dreaming of a young forest, and under the pavement the soil is dreaming of grass."--Wendell Berry

    by Wildthumb on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 08:28:30 PM PST

  •  I strangely (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    slothlax, Radiowalla

    did not see Sarkozy's name mentioned anywhere in this piece, even though he was extremely important to repairing US-France relations. Oh well.

  •  Good news for Jean McCain !! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    buffie, waterstreet2013

    KOS: "Mocking partisans focusing on elections? Even less reason to be on Daily Kos."

    by fcvaguy on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 08:37:03 PM PST

  •  Meh (0+ / 0-)

    McCain was right, France has played a cynically self interested foreign policy that is rife with anti-Americanism (and he didn't even touch on their nuclear proliferation). For all the socialist policies in France, the fact remains that the French fought wars in Algeria and Vietnam to deny the people in those places any rights of self determination and had to get smacked down by Eisenhower to stop their power grab in Suez. This wasn't 19th century colonialism, it was post WWII colonialism. The holier than thou rhetoric from France will always ring hollow one my ears. Since McCain suffered torture to defend a French colonial outpost, who saw French hypocrisy first hand, I have no problem with McCain hating France. Liberte, fraterite, equalite my ass.

    Romney was trying to use France as a way of saying "Hey, I may be from Taxechussetts, but at least its not France!" Not an unreasonable political position to take in a GOP primary.

    There is truth on all sides. The question is how much.

    by slothlax on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 09:01:48 PM PST

    •  If you want to hate France, (4+ / 0-)

      fine.  All the more cheese for me.  

      The anti-Americanism you mention was largely due to the dreadful relationship of DeGaulle and Roosevelt.  Roosevelt did everything he could to see that DeGaulle would not take over the French gov't after the liberation of Paris.  He did not prevail due to pressure from Churchill and his generals, but the animosity and bad feelings poisoned relations for decades to come.  

      A self-interested foreign policy?  How unusual for a country to act in its own self-interest.  

      It's the Supreme Court, stupid!

      by Radiowalla on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 09:46:43 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  LOL (0+ / 0-)

      and that makes them worse than U.S. policies in Latin America?

      Or the U.S. supporting mass-murdering corporations on multiple continents?

      If you're going to go down that road, you better be consistent and announce your hatred of the U.S. too.

      But no, you'll just stick with your double-standard.

      "What could BPossibly go wrong??" -RLMiller "God is just pretend." - eru

      by nosleep4u on Fri Feb 14, 2014 at 06:28:20 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Nicaragua was no Algeria (0+ / 0-)

        I don't hate France, but the idea that they are above criticism is ridiculous.  I have no problem with McCain's contempt.

        I have no idea what double standard you refer to, I never said we were any better.

        There is truth on all sides. The question is how much.

        by slothlax on Fri Feb 14, 2014 at 09:00:06 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  The French are awesome and wonderful. (5+ / 0-)

    McCain and Romney are suck ass losers who'd be complete unknowns but for their advantages of birth.

    You show a little grit and you lands in jail.

    by cal2010 on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 09:02:06 PM PST

  •  Lazy kneejerk France bashing (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Radiowalla, gffish, METAL TREK

    is just another way a wingnut tells you that he or she still thinks that the American electorate of 1988 is where your talking points should be and that that is what will get you in to the White House or a permanent governing majority.

    It's living life choosing delusion and denial over reality.

    I don't care for it, I think its lazy, and ugly, and about as funny as a Bob Hope special in the 1980's, but I do like what it tells me about the GOP and where it is at.

    Delusiontown and Denialville.

    Remember, this is the party that dealt with having zero appeal with people of color by doubling down on trying to deny people of color their right to vote and then going out and paying a lot of money to Ben Carson to come and tell them that it's really the people of color who have problems, not them.

    That's what losers do.

    Pay somebody to tell them what they want to hear.

    France could have a government like a 21rst century version of Franco's Spain and they would still be slinging around "cheese eating surrender blah-blah-blahs" one-liners.

    They will be bashing France long past the fateful moment that conservative enough to be the go-to choice for a survivalist compound in rural Utah is where you have to be to win a GOP primary.  

    “Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action.” — Auric Goldfinger

    by LeftHandedMan on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 09:36:16 PM PST

  •  going back to our founding Democrats (0+ / 0-)

    like Thomas Jefferson have always aligned ourselves more with France, while Whigs/Federalists/Republicans have always aligned themselves more with the British.

    ...better the occasional faults of a government that lives in a spirit of charity, than the consistent omissions of a government frozen in the ice of its own indifference. -FDR, 1936

    by James Allen on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 09:44:53 PM PST

  •  They're mad because France wasnt stupid; the (5+ / 0-)

    Iraq war was stupid & a waste.

    nosotros no somos estúpidos

    by a2nite on Fri Feb 14, 2014 at 03:53:08 AM PST

  •  France was right! (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RightHeaded, nosleep4u, Radiowalla

    Iraq was no fucking threat & the French KNEW it. Hell, if we had listened to them, maybe we wouldn't be in the financial hole we're in now & there would be a lot less killed & wounded American soldiers. Not to mention a lot less dead Iraqis, who had nothing to do with 9/11 in the first place. PLUS, France helped us out big time in the American Revolution.

    A village can not reorganize village life to suit the village idiot.

    by METAL TREK on Fri Feb 14, 2014 at 04:28:12 AM PST

    •  Chirac had a serious plan to deal with (0+ / 0-)

      finding any weapons of mass destruction.   He proposed intensifying the inspections and if there was any lack of cooperation on the part of the Iraqis, the coalition forces would immediately bomb that particular target.  

      Bush was hell-bent on his grand adventure so he ignored the French proposal and took us to war.  

      It's the Supreme Court, stupid!

      by Radiowalla on Fri Feb 14, 2014 at 07:39:45 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  The 2003 anti-French hysteria (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    waterstreet2013, Radiowalla

    whipped up by the Republicans and their sops in the media was the most juvenile and pathetic charade I think I have seen in my lifetime. It just illustrated to me what I already knew -that the Bush mis-administration had not a leg to stand on in its case for war in Iraq.

     It was necessary for the Bush Administration to discredit the French because they were exposing the flimsiness of the pretext for military action. But they knew they couldn't counter the French argument in terms of logic so they had to resort to cheap, tawdry and borderline racist jingoism to make sure that the French point of view never got a fair hearing with the American public. The fact that Bob Ney - the driving force behind the renaming of French fries as "freedom fries" in the House cafeteria - later served a prison term for corruption charges to me provides an ironic symbolism for whole dishonest and morally bankrupt the whole anti-French campaign was.

    Not surprised that McCain and Romney wanted to keep the charade up. They had too much invested in it to want that particular stack of cards to fall

    •  Republicans couldn't accept the Air France 8969 (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      outcome from Christmas weekend of 1994.

      "Afghansi" veterans out of service with Usama bin Laden came back to Algeria and hijacked an Airbus 320. They aimed to fly it into the Eiffel Tower.

      France was able to defeat their plan.

      You can see France's GIGN retake the plane:

      There were several Lessons Learned projects that focused on that incident. America's FAA then failed to protect our airliners, despite that cost would have been less than $500 a plane.


      "I hesitate to agree with Ted Nugent...."

      by waterstreet2013 on Fri Feb 14, 2014 at 07:03:39 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Grammar Nazi Alert (0+ / 0-)

    François and not Francois

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site