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A woman kneels at the memorial for victims of the movie theater shooting in Aurora July 25, 2012. REUTERS/Rick Wilking
NRA lackey: It was "a good thing" that Aurora shooter had 100-round magazine.
Wuh?
Republican state Sen. Bernie Herpin raised the ire of an Aurora theater shooting victim’s father when he claimed that it might have been “a good thing” that gunman James Holmes had a 100-round magazine when he opened fire and, ultimately, killed 12 people.

Herpin, who was elected last September to replace former Senate President John Morse in a recall election over the Democratic gun control measures, made the comments during a hearing for legislation that would overturn the new ban on magazines of 15-rounds or more.

This is the guy we fought against last year, only to lose because of base Democratic voter apathy. The NRA got their guy. And their guy does them proud.
“As it turned out, that was maybe a good thing that he had a 100-round magazine, because it jammed. If he had four, five, six 15-round magazines, there’s no telling how much damage he could have done until a good guy with a gun showed up.”
NRA logic, my friends. For the record, that 100-round drum magazine jammed after firing 45 rounds. Forty-five is more than fifteen. And he still had a Glock he could turn to, because thanks to the NRA, he had all the killing tools he needed. That's how 12 were killed and another 70 injured. Still, totally good. Awesome, in fact, if you are a murderer, or an NRA apologist.

While a family member of one of the Aurora victims exploded in anger to assembled press, a Democratic staffer put the comments in perspective: "Thanks for giving us back your seat."

But amidst this ridiculousness, there is good news:

But Herpin’s gaffe, not to mention the increasingly paltry turnout at the Capitol from aggrieved gun owners — on Tuesday, three times more gun control advocates than gun owners showed up to testify on a proposal to allow concealed carry in schools — seems to illustrate that the strategy of highlighting gun-related issues may be backfiring for Republicans.
Guns will increasingly be a loser issue for the Right. Not only is gun ownership down and still dropping, but with 44 school shootings since Sandy Hook, the issue will have continued resonance, particularly in urban and suburban districts.

Originally posted to kos on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 08:45 AM PST.

Also republished by Daily Kos, Repeal or Amend the Second Amendment (RASA), Colorado COmmunity, Shut Down the NRA, and Firearms Law and Policy.

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Comment Preferences

  •  I saw an ad in last months gun and ammo (22+ / 0-)

    for a very large capacity magazine .
    "The fastest reload is the one you never have to do"

    "please love deeply...openly and genuinely." A. M. H.

    by indycam on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 08:55:50 AM PST

  •  By that "logic," limit him to one round. (26+ / 0-)
    "If he had four, five, six 15-round magazines, there’s no telling how much damage he could have done until a good guy with a gun showed up.”

    stay together / learn the flowers / go light - Gary Snyder

    by Mother Mags on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 08:56:00 AM PST

  •  Another gun bill (27+ / 0-)

    And a couple of days ago, a Republican backed bill in the Colorado statehouse to arm teachers in schools lost in a party line vote as well.

    The Colorado State House and Senate are controlled by Dems. Though it's only a slight majority in the Senate after the recall elections. I know it's my constant mantra, but elections really do matter.

    Netroots Nation July 17-20, 2014, Detroit, MI. Register Now!

    by BCO gal on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 08:56:52 AM PST

  •  Bigger magazines, less death (27+ / 0-)

    Duh.  

    The NRA is brilliant.  Up is down, black is white, big is small, hot is cold.

    NRA logic should be patented.

    I blog about my daughter with autism at her website

    by coquiero on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 08:57:53 AM PST

  •  "If you are a murderer, or an NRA apologist. " (12+ / 0-)

    but you repeat yourself.

    "What could BPossibly go wrong??" -RLMiller "God is just pretend." - eru

    by nosleep4u on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 09:00:33 AM PST

  •  And here I thought firearm ownership was on (8+ / 0-)

    the rise.

    For example: Illinois.

    The Illinois State Police (ISP), Firearms Services Bureau, (FSB) has received a record number of FOID card applications since May 2012. For example, in January 2013, the ISP FSB, received 61,172 FOID applications. As a comparison, in January 2012, the ISP FSB, received 31,655, which had been the highest number of FOID applications received during the month of January in years prior to 2012.
    Not quite double, going from one year to the next. Still, a rise. In one of the more Democratic states in the union, right?

    Then there's the link in the diary:

    In 2012, the share of American households with guns was 34 percent, according to survey results released on Thursday. Researchers said the difference compared with 2010, when the rate was 32 percent, was not statistically significant.
    It'll be interesting to see the numbers this year. Would an increase to 36% be statistically insignificant?
    •  Also, there's no global warming. (23+ / 0-)

      Remember to cherry-pick your starting point for data considered! That is important! You can "prove" any trend you want if you use the right "methodology"!

      The Kochs know this, and so do you!

      There's no gun data before 2010! And no gun data outside Illinois! NO. STOP. DON'T LOOK AT THAT OTHER DATA IT WON'T SUPPORT THE PRECONCEIVED IDEA STAAAHHPP!

      "What could BPossibly go wrong??" -RLMiller "God is just pretend." - eru

      by nosleep4u on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 09:12:36 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Oh, and also, vaccines cause autism (15+ / 0-)

      look!

      A thoroughly-researched report recently published by Arjun Walia over at Activist Post reveals that there are at least 22 published scientific studies that show a link between vaccines and autism and that there are many more out there with similar findings.

      Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/...

      Evidence! Numbers! It must be true, because it's on the internets.

      I blog about my daughter with autism at her website

      by coquiero on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 09:19:56 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  The drop (30+ / 0-)

      from half to a third is statistically significant. Very.

      And the number of firearm applications is irrelevant without a corresponding look at 1) longer-term trends, and 2) the overall rate of growth of the population of Illinois. Not to mention, that's a one-month data point, not overall annual rates. Maybe those support your point, maybe not. All that link states is that the State Police is telling people to be patient since THAT MONTH, applications are up. For all we know, Wal-Mart had a sale on rifles.

      Seriously, if you want to argue that gun ownership is UP, then find data that proves that gun ownership is up. If it's true, that shouldn't be a problem for you.

      •  Not arguing on the previous year trends. (6+ / 0-)

        Population growth for Illinois (estimates; link) shows growth of less than 20k people, going from 2012 to 2013.

        When does the next GSS survey come out? This year? I'll look forward to it.

        I'd also be curious to see what the impact of false negatives on this are. There's no way to measure it but how many gun owners would lie to a survey company to say that there aren't any firearms in the house?

        •  Lot of regional distortians (5+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ER Doc, FrankRose, Miggles, gerrilea, CarlosJ

          In any nationwide gun survey also. You have a huge city like New York (or Chicago) where it has become virtually impossible to (legally) own a firearm skewing the results. In my own state I would guess the ownership rate is probably over 50%. New York City has 2 million more people than my entire state.

          •  I am travelling to another city on the East Coast (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            chrisculpepper

            soon to train all women's intro to firearms at an in-city range.  It's the largest class we've held and the first all women class because the demand has been so huge from women.

            From my experience the demographics of inner city firearm ownership are changing dramatically.  I've seen an increase in age range, race, and sex in whom is interested in carrying.  The last class had a 58 year old black grandmom who was planning on carrying openly in the city.  Good for you grams!

    •  Hunting is rebounding as well (6+ / 0-)

      It looks like the mid 2000's were the low water mark and now it's trending back up.

      Hunting and Fishing rebound

    •  NRA-hysteria induced buying, no doubt. (12+ / 0-)

      "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

      by We Shall Overcome on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 09:43:42 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I wouldn't doubt that. (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ER Doc, FrankRose, gerrilea, CarlosJ

        Of course, idiotic legislation like what was passed in CT, Colorado and NY actually puts teeth into their "Democrats are anti-2A" meme.

        •  And that's a bad thing? .... (8+ / 0-)
          He’s also a primary, if almost unrecognized, reason why Democrats, in a little less than a decade, have turned this once-red state a deepening shade of blue. While Colorado has changed, Brown—Colorado politicos know him as just plain “Dudley”—has not. Nor does he intend to. The RMGO’s demand of “no compromises” on gun rights is an indirect shot at the National Rifle Association, which Brown sees as too willing to cut gun control deals. (The disdain is mutual; the NRA once called Brown the “Al Sharpton of the gun movement,” too extreme for America’s most notorious firearm lobby."

          Brown’s hostage-holding of any center- or left-tilting Colorado Republican has crippled the GOP’s ability to regain a political foothold, making Colorado a swing-state microcosm of the national GOP’s biggest problem: breaking free of its base and becoming more “inclusive,” an imperative Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus outlined in March. Indeed, Brown doesn’t give much thought to the Republican team. “If you’re not feared in politics, you’re not respected,” he told me one day in his office. “And I don’t really care anymore about trying to play nice.”

          http://www.5280.com/...

          Seems to me guns are a wedge issue - between the GOP moderates and the Tea Party.

          "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

          by We Shall Overcome on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 10:01:08 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  That would explain why 20-30% of (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            gerrilea

            registered Republicans voted to recall Republicans in Colorado.

            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

            by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 10:26:34 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  No, that would explain why Dems control Colorado (5+ / 0-)

              and why it voted for Obama twice and has two Dem U.S. Senators and why Dems chose to hold their convention in Denver in 2008, and why marriage equality passed, renewable energy standards/incentives passed and so on.

              You should read that article:

              Colorado’s Democratic takeover would not have happened so quickly if the party hadn’t won three seemingly safe GOP seats. Republican Rob Witwer later co-authored The Blueprint, concluding the GOP lost Colorado as much as Democrats won it. “Our own scorched-earth primaries provided the perfect opening for Democratic funders like Tim Gill and Pat Stryker”—who, with Jared Polis and Rutt Bridges, comprise the so-called “Gang of Four” that’s often credited with solidifying Colorado’s Democratic stronghold—“to finish off weakened GOP candidates,” Witwer says.

              As it turned out, 2004’s results were no aberration. In 2006, Democrat Bill Ritter was elected as governor in a 17-point romp. In 2008, national Democrats planted their flag in Denver and nominated Barack Obama for president. He carried Colorado easily, Democratic Congressman Mark Udall won a U.S. Senate seat that had been in GOP hands, the state House remained in Democratic control, and Democrats suddenly held five of the state’s seven congressional districts.”

              http://www.5280.com/...

              Read the whole thing - it will open your eyes to what's really going on.

              "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

              by We Shall Overcome on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 11:04:17 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  They did vote for Obama twice. (0+ / 0-)

                And one district that voted for Obama by 19 points recalled their Democratic Senator less than a year latter.
                And another district recalled their Senator too.
                And another in another district a Senator chose to resign than face her constituents.

                It's almost as if something specific turned Colorado more red.

                Weird, huh?

                Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 11:32:07 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Not really - that was 2 districts out of probably (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  coquiero, Glen The Plumber, allensl

                  more than 100. Those recalls probably change the hue from Amethyst to Dark Lavender.

                  You're grasping at straws, understandably, because you don't know Colorado.

                  Read that article, it would bring you up to speed:

                  These recent developments suggest Colorado Republicans may finally be ready to go to war against Dudley Brown. After two decades of seeing him run roughshod over the state party, they’ve got nothing else to lose. “You can’t let a few bullies continue to hurt the party,” says Call, the Colorado GOP chair. “At some point, you have to fight back.”
                  http://www.5280.com/...

                  "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                  by We Shall Overcome on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 11:38:58 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  It was 3 districts. Out of 35. And those were (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    CarlosJ

                    recalls.
                    The first 3 recalls in state history.

                    "You're grasping at straws"
                    Oh sure. All I have to prove the actual political consequences is to point to....ya know....the actual political consequences.
                    If only I had a blog.
                    Drat.

                    Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                    by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 12:02:54 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Right, but the third district was held by Dems, (0+ / 0-)

                      so that would not "turn Colorado more red". The gun lobby didn't win a seat in the third district - it wasn't a recall, it was a resignation, so again, you don't know Colorado very well.

                      If you would read that article, you would learn that the political consequences are that the Dems control Colorado up and down the state and in DC thanks to the Colorado gun lobby:

                      He’s also a primary, if almost unrecognized, reason why Democrats, in a little less than a decade, have turned this once-red state a deepening shade of blue. While Colorado has changed, Brown—Colorado politicos know him as just plain “Dudley”—has not. Nor does he intend to. The RMGO’s demand of “no compromises” on gun rights is an indirect shot at the National Rifle Association, which Brown sees as too willing to cut gun control deals. (The disdain is mutual; the NRA once called Brown the “Al Sharpton of the gun movement,” too extreme for America’s most notorious firearm lobby.) True to form, last July, two days after James Holmes shot 70 moviegoers in Aurora, killing 12, I asked him about proposals to limit ammunition purchases. When I mentioned Holmes had 6,000 rounds with him that night, Brown said, “I call 6,000 rounds running low.”

                      Brown’s hostage-holding of any center- or left-tilting Colorado Republican has crippled the GOP’s ability to regain a political foothold, making Colorado a swing-state microcosm of the national GOP’s biggest problem: breaking free of its base and becoming more “inclusive,” an imperative Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus outlined in March. Indeed, Brown doesn’t give much thought to the Republican team.

                      "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                      by We Shall Overcome on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 12:14:19 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

        •  is that why (0+ / 0-)

          Mark Udall is in trouble in the polls?

          The internet is crazy. It is like people arguing about what kind of cheese to throw at a portrait, in order to destroy it completely

          by GideonAB on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 10:02:03 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Get a pro-gun Rights Democrat. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ER Doc, gerrilea

          Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

          by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 09:45:03 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Sure. Just not a purist who holds extreme (8+ / 0-)

            positions on the issue like you apparently do.

            •  What is my 'extreme' position, exactly? (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              gerrilea, CarlosJ

              Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

              by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 10:16:33 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Register ALL guns and the transfer of ownership. (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Miggles, coquiero, Sharon Wraight

                If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

                by CwV on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 10:59:22 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  That is extreme. (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  gerrilea, CarlosJ

                  But I don't hold that extremest view.

                  Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                  by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 11:02:13 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  It's not at all extreme, but your absolute refusal (8+ / 0-)

                    to consider it, the fact that you translate that to mean CONFISCATION! show how extreme and out of step with everyone but the NRA your views are.

                    If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

                    by CwV on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 11:04:17 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  The absence of such a law & the utter political (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      gerrilea

                      impossibility of passing such a law, and three recently unemployed Senators suggest otherwise.

                      Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                      by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 11:05:47 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Thanks for the NRA talkingpoints! (6+ / 0-)

                        It's only a political impossibility because a loud minority, of which you seem to be one, keep repeating this NRA mantra. You show yourself with every comment.

                        If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

                        by CwV on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 11:11:34 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  That and the 20-30% of (2+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          gerrilea, savvyspy

                          Registered Democrats that voted for the recall of Democrats.

                          That's one helluva political winner you got there.

                          Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                          by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 11:15:35 AM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Agree (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            FrankRose, CarlosJ

                            Guns are a losing issue for Democrats and in Colorado especially. The NRA will only back off when democrats actually beat NRA candidates and recalls at the polls. That hasn't happened. I fact in CO the NRA has put the state senate and governor's mansion in play in a year the dems should be kicking the GOP's ass.

                            We hear a lot about demographic trends and plenty of stats but the one thing the GOP has going for them is they win elections and at the end of the day that's all that counts.

                          •  that comment is far off the mark ... quite the (4+ / 0-)

                            contrary, in fact:

                            He’s also a primary, if almost unrecognized, reason why Democrats, in a little less than a decade, have turned this once-red state a deepening shade of blue. While Colorado has changed, Brown—Colorado politicos know him as just plain “Dudley”—has not. Nor does he intend to. The RMGO’s demand of “no compromises” on gun rights is an indirect shot at the National Rifle Association, which Brown sees as too willing to cut gun control deals. (The disdain is mutual; the NRA once called Brown the “Al Sharpton of the gun movement,” too extreme for America’s most notorious firearm lobby.) True to form, last July, two days after James Holmes shot 70 moviegoers in Aurora, killing 12, I asked him about proposals to limit ammunition purchases. When I mentioned Holmes had 6,000 rounds with him that night, Brown said, “I call 6,000 rounds running low.”

                            Brown’s hostage-holding of any center- or left-tilting Colorado Republican has crippled the GOP’s ability to regain a political foothold, making Colorado a swing-state microcosm of the national GOP’s biggest problem: breaking free of its base and becoming more “inclusive,” an imperative Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus outlined in March. Indeed, Brown doesn’t give much thought to the Republican team. “If you’re not feared in politics, you’re not respected,” he told me one day in his office. “And I don’t really care anymore about trying to play nice.” As he spoke, hanging on the wall behind him were photos of his wife and two children—affixed to the front of a case that stores a loaded combat shotgun.

                            http://www.5280.com/...

                            "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                            by We Shall Overcome on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 11:53:34 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                        •  Claiming something is "talking points" (0+ / 0-)

                          is an evasion of discussion not participating in one.  If something is just "talking points" then itshould be  easy to show as false so why don't you do that instead of evade and dismiss?

                •  Register all speeches and create (0+ / 0-)

                  a central database of athiests and those who get abortions.

                  Not extreme at all right?

                  •  when was the last time... (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Miggles

                    ...some asshole marched into a classroom full of kindergarteners and massacred them all by talking to them about atheism?

                    "Against the assault of laughter, nothing can stand." - Mark Twain

                    by GrimReefa on Fri Feb 14, 2014 at 05:10:39 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  When was the last time someone's free speech (0+ / 0-)

                      formed an oppressive government and slaughtered millions of people by using that speech to follow them?

                      Ohh I can think of several examples.

                      Rights are still rights despite the horrors some tiny minority might create by undertaking those rights.

                      We don't ban free speech because the KKK uses it to spread their message even though we find the message repugnant because the rights of all people to speak freely is more important than restricting the KKK.

                      You need to ingrain this high respect for the rights of all people to engage in the exercise of their rights in ways you would not or that you dislike.

                      Remember an injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.

                      Nameste.

          •  Nope. (16+ / 0-)

            It's time to drive the gunloons out of the public space.
            The tide is turning and H-5 doesn't hold any more. We're sick of the carnage.
            And the promoters of that carnage.

            If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

            by CwV on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 10:00:23 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Some did get driven out of the public square. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              gerrilea, CarlosJ

              Just ask Giron, Morse & Hudak.

              "the tide is turning"
              It started turning a long time ago.
              Support for gun rights have been going up for the past twenty years.
              Support for gun control has declined for the past twenty years.

              Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

              by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 10:18:40 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  In an off year election with tons of NRA money (4+ / 0-)

                and media propaganda, they narrowly defeated a couple of legislators that were on their way out anyway and the gunloon stooges they installed will be gone after the next election.

                If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

                by CwV on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 11:01:54 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Gun controllers had a better than (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  gerrilea, CarlosJ

                  FIVE-to-ONE spending advantage in those recalls.

                  You need to find a better excuse for these election failures.

                  Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                  by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 11:04:02 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  The Gunloons had the support of the major (5+ / 0-)

                    media in the state that more than made up for the spending disparity and Bloomberg's money (the bulk of the gun control support) was branded by that in-state media. The NRA got media ops that dwarfed what the gun controllers could buy.

                    If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

                    by CwV on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 11:08:31 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  So 'tons of money' is no longer pertinent (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      CarlosJ

                      because "CONSPIRACY!!1!"?

                      Can't argue with that logic.

                      Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                      by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 11:13:25 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  You can't argue with the fact that the gun lobby (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        coquiero, Glen The Plumber

                        in Colorado gave the state to the Dems:

                        He’s also a primary, if almost unrecognized, reason why Democrats, in a little less than a decade, have turned this once-red state a deepening shade of blue. While Colorado has changed, Brown—Colorado politicos know him as just plain “Dudley”—has not. Nor does he intend to. The RMGO’s demand of “no compromises” on gun rights is an indirect shot at the National Rifle Association, which Brown sees as too willing to cut gun control deals. (The disdain is mutual; the NRA once called Brown the “Al Sharpton of the gun movement,” too extreme for America’s most notorious firearm lobby.) True to form, last July, two days after James Holmes shot 70 moviegoers in Aurora, killing 12, I asked him about proposals to limit ammunition purchases. When I mentioned Holmes had 6,000 rounds with him that night, Brown said, “I call 6,000 rounds running low.”

                        Brown’s hostage-holding of any center- or left-tilting Colorado Republican has crippled the GOP’s ability to regain a political foothold, making Colorado a swing-state microcosm of the national GOP’s biggest problem: breaking free of its base and becoming more “inclusive,” an imperative Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus outlined in March. Indeed, Brown doesn’t give much thought to the Republican team. “If you’re not feared in politics, you’re not respected,” he told me one day in his office. “And I don’t really care anymore about trying to play nice.” As he spoke, hanging on the wall behind him were photos of his wife and two children—affixed to the front of a case that stores a loaded combat shotgun.

                        http://www.5280.com/...

                        "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                        by We Shall Overcome on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 11:58:23 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                      •  Frank, (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        FrankRose

                        Reality-based went out of the window as soon as reality disagrees with their cognitive bias.  No reason to think humans on this site are any different from humans anywhere else.

                  •  That's not true, the Sunlight Foundation (3+ / 0-)

                    concluded that the amount spent can't be known because the Koch Bros/ dark money spending that goes unreported.

                    Americans for Prosperity (AFP) spent in the recalls - how much is no one but they know:

                    http://www.washingtonpost.com/...

                    The Kochs and the NRA have a history of manipulating elections with dark money and phony groups:

                    One morning last month, Rhode Islanders woke up to the news that the National Rifle Association had been charged with the second-largest campaign finance ethics violation in state history. In a settlement reached by the Rhode Island Board of Elections, the NRA admitted that it improperly funneled money from its national Political Action Committee (or “PAC”) to the Rhode Island-specific PAC, illegal under state law. The PAC was fined a historic $63,000.

                    What the stories didn’t reveal? That the NRA’s wrongdoing, the record fine, and the shuttering of the NRA’s Rhode Island PAC was the result of the initial hunch of one person: Brown University student Sam Bell.

                    http://www.brownpoliticalreview.org/...

                    and:

                    On Saturday we posted an article detailing the similarities, and apparent coordination, in misleading "Absentee Ballot Application" mailers sent out to Democratic voters by both the David Koch-founded Americans for Prosperity - Wisconsin and a mysterious group calling themselves United Sportsmen of Wisconsin.

                    The Americans for Prosperity mailer, sent out in Wisconsin last week in advance of tomorrow's state Senate recall election of six Republican state Senators, included instructions that absentee ballots must be submitted by August 11th --- even though the election in question is actually tomorrow, August 9th.

                    The PO Box described as the "Absentee Ballot Application Processing Center" on those mailers belonged to a Rightwing family group tied to the anti-abortion movement. A spokesperson for the group, as we reported, said that while they were part of a "coalition" with AFP, they claimed to have had no idea AFP was using their PO Box on the mailers until they started receiving them, and that they hadn't seen the mailer before it went out. For their part, AFP claimed the incorrect date was simply a "typo" in two districts where they had sent the mailings, and that "liberals" were making a "mountain out of a molehill" about it all. Late last week, however, in a followup mailing, the group admitted that it had gone out to "everyone" in all of the state Senate districts, rather than just the two where Democrats will face recall elections next week (as opposed to tomorrow's GOP recalls) and blamed the incorrect date on their printer.

                    http://www.bradblog.com/...

                    "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                    by We Shall Overcome on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 12:06:53 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  From the Sunlight foundation: (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      CarlosJ

                      "In an unusual political twist, the anti-recall forces appear to have vastly outspent the gun rights advocates."--Sunlight foundation.

                      There is absolutely no credible source that doesn't conclude that the gun controllers significantly outspent the gun-rights side.

                      Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                      by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 12:13:09 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  You forgot to read their conclusion, which is, (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Silvia Nightshade, FogCityJohn

                        you can't make sweeping conclusions about how much was spent:

                        Because the public records are incomplete, it is difficult to draw sweeping conclusions about how much money was spent overall.
                        https://sunlightfoundation.com/...

                        You can say that what is publicly known shows that the pro gun side spent more.

                        But, if you are supportive of the Koch Brothers and their agenda, than you will overlook the fact that they spent in the recalls and they don't report how much they spent, and disregard this fact.

                        It seems you are more interested in supporting the Koch Bros. than Colorado Democrats.

                        "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                        by We Shall Overcome on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 12:20:05 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Yet, like every other credible source: (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          CarlosJ

                          The Sunlight Foundation concludes that: "the anti-recall forces appear to have vastly outspent the gun rights advocates."

                          Proponents of the recall have raised about $540,000, while opponents have collected nearly $3 million--Denver Post.

                          There is no credible source that doesn't conclude that the gun controllers significantly outspent the gun rights side.
                          Not. A. Single. One.

                          As exciting as this CONSPIRACY theory implying that there must have been somewhere in the neighborhood of $2,500,000 spent with nobody noticing, I'm going to stick with the factual numbers.

                          It seems you are more interested in supporting the Koch Bros. than Colorado Democrats.
                          You are the one that got Colorado Democrats recalled.
                          You are the best asset the GOP has had for 20 years.

                          Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                          by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 12:32:55 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Do you count the Koch Brother's contribution (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            cal2010, coquiero, FogCityJohn

                            to the recall efforts as part of the money spent on those recalls?

                            And, if so, do you know how much they spent?

                            The Sunlight Foundation has been unable to determine how much the Koch's Americans for Prosperity spent because they don't have to report it, and therefor they conclude that:

                            Because the public records are incomplete, it is difficult to draw sweeping conclusions about how much money was spent overall.
                            This is a pattern for the Kochs and AFP:

                            http://www.washingtonpost.com/...

                            On Saturday we posted an article detailing the similarities, and apparent coordination, in misleading "Absentee Ballot Application" mailers sent out to Democratic voters by both the David Koch-founded Americans for Prosperity - Wisconsin and a mysterious group calling themselves United Sportsmen of Wisconsin.

                            The Americans for Prosperity mailer, sent out in Wisconsin last week in advance of tomorrow's state Senate recall election of six Republican state Senators, included instructions that absentee ballots must be submitted by August 11th --- even though the election in question is actually tomorrow, August 9th.

                            The PO Box described as the "Absentee Ballot Application Processing Center" on those mailers belonged to a Rightwing family group tied to the anti-abortion movement. A spokesperson for the group, as we reported, said that while they were part of a "coalition" with AFP, they claimed to have had no idea AFP was using their PO Box on the mailers until they started receiving them, and that they hadn't seen the mailer before it went out. For their part, AFP claimed the incorrect date was simply a "typo" in two districts where they had sent the mailings, and that "liberals" were making a "mountain out of a molehill" about it all. Late last week, however, in a followup mailing, the group admitted that it had gone out to "everyone" in all of the state Senate districts, rather than just the two where Democrats will face recall elections next week (as opposed to tomorrow's GOP recalls) and blamed the incorrect date on their printer.

                            The United Sportsmen of Wisconsin (USW) mailers, almost identical in form, font, content, and type-setting, as we showed, had no information about who had paid for the mailings on them, and instructed voters that they needed to return their absentee ballots to the elections clerk by August 4th --- even though ballots may be delivered to the Wisconsin election clerks as late as the close of polls on August 9th.

                            Since we ran our article over the weekend, which suggested, among other things, previously-undocumented coordination between AFP and USW, and since there was little information to be found about USW on the web, a number of readers have been digging in to try and figure out exactly who the so-called United Sporstmen of Wisconsin actually are, as have we.

                            http://www.bradblog.com/...

                            "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                            by We Shall Overcome on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 12:41:58 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  They also conclude.. (0+ / 0-)

                            "the anti-recall forces appear to have vastly outspent the gun rights advocates."--Sunlight Foundation

                            The Denver Post concurs: "Proponents of the recall have raised about $540,000, while opponents have collected nearly $3 million"

                            Even Kos concurs: "Democrats dramatically outspent Republicans. Combined, Democratic-aligned groups spent $2.3 million, while GOP-aligned groups spent just $482K"-Daily Kos

                            Every single credible source concludes that the gun controllers vastly outspent the gun rights side.

                            But don't take my word for it, don't take the Sunlight Foundations word for it, don't take the Denver Post's word on it, don't take The Daily Kos word on it, don't the the word of every single credible source:

                            Show us where this $2,500,000 was spent without anyone noticing.

                            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                            by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 12:54:21 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Actually, that's not the conclusion that matters (0+ / 0-)

                            to your argument - I already said I agreed with that point. Yes, the public data show the pro gun safety side spent more, but the issue is the dark money - ie, Americans for Prosperity/Kochs. That money is not reported and not known

                            Do you think the money AFP spent on the recalls should be included in the tally of the total amount spent?

                            Do you know how much the Kochs spent?

                            "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                            by We Shall Overcome on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 01:00:53 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Dark money is there for both sides. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            CarlosJ

                            Every single credible source concludes that the gun controllers significantly outspent the gun rights side.

                            Every. Single. One.

                            In order for your contention to have any merit, you have to find where $2,500,000 of 'dark money' was spent without anyone noticing.

                            Your excuses for these humiliating political failures are lacking.

                            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                            by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 01:06:23 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Where is the dark money on the other side? (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            coquiero

                            What orgs? Because my understanding is that AFP and the Koch's dark money funding network is unique and that most of the funding on "the other side" was done on the books.

                            What dark money orgs funded the anti-recall efforts in Colorado and why didn't the Sunlight Foundation make mention of this?

                            "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                            by We Shall Overcome on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 01:20:11 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Every single credible source concludes that (0+ / 0-)

                            the gun controllers significantly outspent the gun rights side.
                            Every. Single. One.

                            If you are unable to use simple, basic & proven fact then your political predictions will continue to be as humiliatingly terrible as they were for Colorado.

                            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                            by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 01:25:46 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Right - we agree on that point, the public data (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            coquiero, FogCityJohn

                            show the gun safety crowd spent more.

                            There hasn't been a tally on the dark money. The Sunlight Foundation found that the Kochs spent in those recalls, but how much is not known.

                            And you can't seem to name an org on the pro gun safety side that spent dark money in those recalls.

                            Combined, the Kochs are the richest "person" in the world, so there's a lot to go around.

                            100, 60 second ads could cost $150K to $175K - you could use that up in a few days. Repeat those 100, 60 second ads another 10 times over a period of 6 months (during the sig gathering and in the run up to the vote) and you're at $1.8 million or so very quickly.

                            So, it's more than conceivable that the Kochs dumped money directly or through am arms-length group.

                            Finally, some groups worked in Colorado but are not detected either in Colorado state records or the broadcast records. Press reports revealed that Americans for Prosperity, the Koch-backed advocacy group that spent more than $33 million at the federal level on the 2012 elections and is not required to disclose its donors, was working on the races. The group, for example, distributed this door hanger, which criticizes Morse not about his stance on guns but on his support for the Obama health care law.

                            "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                            by We Shall Overcome on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 01:49:46 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  So nobody was able to notice the money spent (0+ / 0-)

                            on ads?

                            Way to break the case, gumshoe.

                            Be sure to tell the Sunlight Foundation, Kos, the Denver Post and every other credible organization that concluded that gun controllers vastly outspent the gun rights side.

                            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                            by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 02:12:35 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  That's the point of dark money - it isn't reported (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            FogCityJohn

                            If you read the Sunlight block quote I posted, you would see they say "not detected" - in other words, they aren't mind readers, nor will they or any other news org devote resources to try to read minds.

                            The only way to track that kind of spending (ie, dark money that is not reported) is to listen to all radio and watch all TV 24/7 for the 6 months leading up to the recall elections - maybe you would like to volunteer travel back in time and do that for us?

                            If not, then the jury is still out on exactly how much was spent on those recalls.

                            "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                            by We Shall Overcome on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 02:27:27 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  You don't have to be a mind-reader if money is (0+ / 0-)

                            spent on ads.
                            You just need addition.

                            Your conspiracy theory isn't supported by anyone, including the Sunlight Foundation, which is why they say "the anti-recall forces appear to have vastly outspent the gun rights advocates."
                            Kos concurs.
                            Denver Post concurs.
                            Every credible organization concurs.

                            The jury isn't out on who spent vastly more.
                            It is settled fact, despite your desperate attempts to make excuses for the humiliating losses you created.

                            You lost these seats.
                            You lost despite these seats being in Democratic Districts.
                            You lost despite having far more financial resources.
                            You lost painfully, humiliatingly & totally.
                            Now you have to deal with it.

                            Although you haven't yet managed to get past the first stage of grief (denial), I can assure you--the party has already moved on to acceptance.

                            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                            by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 05:43:16 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                •  And more money everytime a D talks about (0+ / 0-)

                  gun control.

                  Obama and Pelosi increased NRA membership by what 50% in 3 months?

            •  the light (0+ / 0-)

              at the end of the tunnel?

              I must confess I have seen no clear evidence that this time it will be different

              The internet is crazy. It is like people arguing about what kind of cheese to throw at a portrait, in order to destroy it completely

              by GideonAB on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 10:21:14 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

          •  No, just let a "pro gun rights Republican"... (13+ / 0-)

            Keep talking… See: This diary…

            Prediction:  This seat will be Democratic again by the next election…the next Full collection…

            No need to adopt the Republican position on guns… If you want a Republican position on guns, vote for a fucking Republican…

            Baby, where I come from...

            by ThatSinger on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 10:15:32 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  A pro-gun rights Democrat. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              gerrilea, CarlosJ

              Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

              by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 10:19:04 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  The people of Colorado took your last sentence (0+ / 0-)

              to heart.

              Good job with that.

              Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

              by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 10:27:47 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Just think, when the next election turns... (9+ / 0-)

                The seat back to the Democrats, you'll literally have no argument… Counting the days…

                If you want a candidate with a Republican position on guns, vote for a Republican… It's really quite simple…

                We'lltake the seat back in the next full election, I guarantee it… And it won't be with a candidate sporting a Republican position on guns… Would you like to place a wager?

                Baby, where I come from...

                by ThatSinger on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 10:35:18 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  how much (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  FrankRose

                  are you prepared to bet on your prediction?

                  Loads of psychics make predictions but few place significant money on them.  They cannot afford the publicity of a failure

                  The internet is crazy. It is like people arguing about what kind of cheese to throw at a portrait, in order to destroy it completely

                  by GideonAB on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 12:18:43 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  You don't need a psychic to see what's coming (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    ThatSinger, coquiero, cal2010

                    for the GOP in Colorado:

                    He’s also a primary, if almost unrecognized, reason why Democrats, in a little less than a decade, have turned this once-red state a deepening shade of blue. While Colorado has changed, Brown—Colorado politicos know him as just plain “Dudley”—has not. Nor does he intend to. The RMGO’s demand of “no compromises” on gun rights is an indirect shot at the National Rifle Association, which Brown sees as too willing to cut gun control deals. (The disdain is mutual; the NRA once called Brown the “Al Sharpton of the gun movement,” too extreme for America’s most notorious firearm lobby.) True to form, last July, two days after James Holmes shot 70 moviegoers in Aurora, killing 12, I asked him about proposals to limit ammunition purchases. When I mentioned Holmes had 6,000 rounds with him that night, Brown said, “I call 6,000 rounds running low.”

                    Brown’s hostage-holding of any center- or left-tilting Colorado Republican has crippled the GOP’s ability to regain a political foothold, making Colorado a swing-state microcosm of the national GOP’s biggest problem: breaking free of its base and becoming more “inclusive,” an imperative Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus outlined in March. Indeed, Brown doesn’t give much thought to the Republican team. “If you’re not feared in politics, you’re not respected,” he told me one day in his office. “And I don’t really care anymore about trying to play nice.”

                    http://www.5280.com/...

                    "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                    by We Shall Overcome on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 12:30:51 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  That article was written in August (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      CarlosJ

                      What happened in Colorado in September?

                      Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                      by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 01:43:11 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Funny how these go together… (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        We Shall Overcome, FogCityJohn
                        Brown’s pro-gun, anti-abortion, anti-gay agenda
                        Please proceed…

                        Baby, where I come from...

                        by ThatSinger on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 02:28:17 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Good point - FrankRose is all about protecting (3+ / 0-)

                          "innocent American's rights" ... except when he's not - which seems to be just about always.

                          "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                          by We Shall Overcome on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 02:55:51 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  He uses the plural "rights" yet only ever talks (3+ / 0-)

                            about a singular right...

                            Right?

                            Baby, where I come from...

                            by ThatSinger on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 04:30:00 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Oh? (0+ / 0-)

                            What right have I been pushing to take away?

                            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                            by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 05:34:27 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  You are sympathetic to Koch brothers, NRA (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            coquiero, ThatSinger

                            backed recall elections of Democrats - you were basically cheering them on in the run up to the elections.

                            85% of Colorado voters support background checks and 50 to 55% support gun mag limits - the majority of those are Dems.

                            You are more aligned with the right than the left.

                            Why don't you write more diaries and expound on your comments - it would be interesting to examine the "logic".

                            "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                            by We Shall Overcome on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 05:47:04 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I'm not sympathetic to the Koch brothers at all. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            CarlosJ

                            You, on the other hand, gave them a huge opportunity.
                            You are the best asset they have.

                            85% of Colorado voters support background checks and 50 to 55% support gun mag limits - the majority of those are Dems.
                            Where are the recalls of those that voted against the background checks?
                            Where were they while Giron, Morse & Hudak lost their jobs?
                            You are more aligned with the right than the left.
                            Not at all. That's why I'm not the one insisting on a policy that does nothing but lose seats for Dems.
                            But good job trying to convince someone to vote GOP.
                            As shown by the results in Colorado; it is something you are extremely good at.

                            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                            by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 05:58:50 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Why don't you try to convince the Dkos community (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            coquiero, ThatSinger

                            of that - write a diary laying out your logic for opposing gun safety in Colorado.

                            That would be really interesting.

                            "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                            by We Shall Overcome on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 06:02:04 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                        •  You didn't answer. (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          CarlosJ

                          What happened in September, bud?

                          You should know.
                          You caused it.

                          Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                          by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 05:35:07 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  You keep saying that... (3+ / 0-)

                            I live in California, bud... I guess you're saying that I can then take credit for ALL the other elections won by politicians who share my viewpoint on guns, including the current POTUS, given the fact that he was faced with an unprecedented fear campaign launched by your brothers in arms, the NRA? Fine, you take Colorado, I'll take the rest...

                            Your game of greased pig wrestling wherein any election other than the Colorado special election doesn't count because it wasn't specifically about guns is over... you've lost...

                            Don't believe me? Re-read Kos' (you know, the guy who.. uhh... fucking OWNS this site?) diary...

                            Try badgering him with this bullshit...

                            Baby, where I come from...

                            by ThatSinger on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 05:44:22 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  If you want the Democratic party to be a regional (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            CarlosJ

                            party, then you are doing an excellent job of doing so.
                            Fortunately I trust the party will act more wisely going forward.

                            Fine, you take Colorado, I'll take the rest...
                            Damn straight you will.
                            You can own the results of 2014.
                            I look forward to hearing your excuses in the aftermath of those elections as well.
                            Re-read Kos' (you know, the guy who.. uhh... fucking OWNS this site?) diary...
                            What relevance is that? I am talking about elections, liberties and this nation.
                            You are talking about.....a blog.

                            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                            by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 05:52:56 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  You apparently didn't read the diary... (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            coquiero, FogCityJohn

                            which is not surprising, because you write the same shit regardless of the diary, but in the diary, it specifically refers to one of the people who share your extremist viewpoint on guns and how articulating his extremist viewpoint on guns just caused him to shoot himself in the foot (something you're all too familiar with) making himself look like an asshole (again.. well, you get the idea) with likely electoral consequences...

                            See, here's the "greased pig" part of attempting to reason with you...

                            Unless the Democrats base their ENTIRE 2014 election strategy about gun control and nothing but gun control, even if they hold the Senate and take back the House you'll claim it's because "guns weren't an issue", even if they maintain their EXACT platform position on guns as they hold now... you'll claim that they "shied away" from guns no matter what... and any loss you'll blame on gun control, even if it's not the primary issue... because at the end of the day, you're nothing but a Gun Concern Troll and you're using your faux concern for elections to mask your true concern which is guns... it's what you do and it's who you are... there's no reasoning with you and there's no point in trying... which only leaves mocking you when I'm in the mood and ignoring you when I'm not... expect both...

                            Baby, where I come from...

                            by ThatSinger on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 06:04:19 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Why wouldn't they base their election strategy (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            CarlosJ

                            around gun control?
                            I thought it was such a big winner.....well other than the 'winning' part.

                            Weird......

                            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                            by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 06:07:13 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  See what I mean? Classic concern trolling... (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            coquiero, FogCityJohn

                            Very few Democrats have gun control at the top of their mastheads, not because they don't share the party's OFFICIAL position on gun control, but because they're focused on other, more pressing issues... they're not "shying away" from it, it's just that GUNS aren't their primary concern (unlike you)...

                            But most REPUBLICANS have "gun control" and their NRA ratings at the VERY top of theirs... and their positions match yours... identically...

                            Therefore, I guess it's reasonable for me to take EVERY loss by a Republican as a repudiation of your viewpoint on guns because THEY make every election about guns and in the past 8 years they've lost the presidency twice, the Senate twice and took back the House, NOT on guns but on Obamacare and "JOBS, JOBS, JOBS"... so you cling to those 3 races in that one Colorado SPECIAL election and pretend it supports your frothing "viewpoint"...

                            Now I'm bored... no more attention for you...

                            Baby, where I come from...

                            by ThatSinger on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 06:23:06 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Very few Democrats have gun control (0+ / 0-)

                            eight issues down from the top.
                            If it was a winning issue you'd think they could find room in a scroll-down on their website to mention it.

                            But most REPUBLICANS have "gun control" and their NRA ratings at the VERY top of theirs
                            That's what you do when you have an 'election winner'.
                            You notice that they don't have Mitt's 47% quote at the top of their stated issues.

                            Just stick with singing a few tunes, bud.
                            Politics seem to be a bit difficult for you to grasp.

                            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                            by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 06:30:26 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  For a vey long time I thought I had a right (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            reasonablegunsplz, coquiero

                            To live in a peaceable society, without weaponry, assault, bigotry, and threat

                            That if faced with these, I could engender legal protection rather than vigilantism

                            That it may not always be easy, and the struggle may be long, but it is the right thing to do

                            That Dr King, Jr, was, and is, right, that pursuit of non-violence is the very best we can do and it is all we can do, if we are to call ourselves humane

                            But he was shot, in the neck, by a legally owned Remington Gamemaster 760 .30-06-caliber rifle from the Aeromarine Supply Company with a Redfield 2x7 scope

                            His teacher in non-violence, Mahatma Gandhi, was fatally shot three times with a Beretta 9mm

                            Mao Tse Tung said "Power comes from the barrel of a gun;" he did not mean that that power is right or wrong, he meant that the gun will end any discourse, any humanity, that life is weak in its raw power

                            That, Frank Rose, is the right you try to take from me, with your single-minded advocacy of the instruments of violence, and saturating discourse with flippancy, one-liners and obstruction to dialogue (it's not just you, but the behavior is over the top)

                            Of my entitlement to a philosophy of peace and social justice

                            But that's okay, I want to be part of a legacy for our childrens' hearts and minds, of Dr King's, Gandhi's teachings of pacifism and non-violence, not of weak and selfish brutality, and that is just it, you cannot take that from anyone, even with a gun

                            It is becomes hard to have discourse on dailykos amid the bullying words, but that's why we're hear so we carry on

                            And this is the definition of 'right' that I am using before you go off on it link

                  •  I'm not claiming clairvoyance... (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    coquiero, cal2010

                    I'm basing it on the neanderthalish blather of people like the Republican from Colorado Kos alluded to in this diary... given enough rope they'll shoot themselves in the foot every time... just like Frank did...

                    How's that for mixed metaphors?

                    Baby, where I come from...

                    by ThatSinger on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 12:31:31 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

              •  The people of Colorado thank the gun lobby for (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                ThatSinger, coquiero

                handing the state to Democrats:

                He’s also a primary, if almost unrecognized, reason why Democrats, in a little less than a decade, have turned this once-red state a deepening shade of blue. While Colorado has changed, Brown—Colorado politicos know him as just plain “Dudley”—has not. Nor does he intend to. The RMGO’s demand of “no compromises” on gun rights is an indirect shot at the National Rifle Association, which Brown sees as too willing to cut gun control deals. (The disdain is mutual; the NRA once called Brown the “Al Sharpton of the gun movement,” too extreme for America’s most notorious firearm lobby.) True to form, last July, two days after James Holmes shot 70 moviegoers in Aurora, killing 12, I asked him about proposals to limit ammunition purchases. When I mentioned Holmes had 6,000 rounds with him that night, Brown said, “I call 6,000 rounds running low.”

                Brown’s hostage-holding of any center- or left-tilting Colorado Republican has crippled the GOP’s ability to regain a political foothold, making Colorado a swing-state microcosm of the national GOP’s biggest problem: breaking free of its base and becoming more “inclusive,” an imperative Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus outlined in March. Indeed, Brown doesn’t give much thought to the Republican team. “If you’re not feared in politics, you’re not respected,” he told me one day in his office. “And I don’t really care anymore about trying to play nice.”

                http://www.5280.com/...

                "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                by We Shall Overcome on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 12:29:43 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

          •  Better cover all the bases (6+ / 0-)

            Make it a pro-fetus, pro-traditional marriage, anti-minimum wage, anti-union, anti-Obamacare, pro-secessionist, pro-gun Democrat.  

      •  Yep (8+ / 0-)

        They targeted Senators who were up in 2010 because the signature threshold is calculated as a percentage of turnout and the turnout was way lower in 2010 than 2012.

  •  Hey, they need their anthrax for duck huntin' (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    annieli, coquiero, lyvwyr101

    Come and take my doomsday device!!!

    "See? I'm not a racist! I have a black friend!"

    by TheHalfrican on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 09:18:54 AM PST

  •  Let's have six-year olds carry guns to school! (10+ / 0-)

    If only teachers have guns, children won't get protected. Every 1st grader needs a gun!

  •  And this embarassed Coloradan... (18+ / 0-)

    ...would think it even more awesome if we'd just skip the arguments about magazine sizes, let alone the gun-fetishist minutiae over semi-automatic vs. fully-automatic weapons.

    Instead, focus on the real issue: Any firearm that can fire more than one shot without reloading is a "rapid-fire" weapon and has no business among the general public.

    "If you are still playing for Team Republican and want to have any honor whatsoever, you need to leave the Republican Party now, apologize to America, and work to remove it from our political system." - Brad DeLong

    by radabush on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 09:25:27 AM PST

    •  Good luck with that. There is this thing (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      KVoimakas, DavidMS, ER Doc, FrankRose, gerrilea

      called the Second Amendment.

      Any firearm that can fire more than one shot without reloading is a "rapid-fire" weapon and has no business among the general public.
      You will never ever see the day when this is the law.

      “Most people are willing to take the Sermon on the Mount as a flag to sail under, but few will use it as a rudder by which to steer.” ― Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.

      by SpamNunn on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 09:57:06 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Times change. So can the Constitution (16+ / 0-)
        You will never ever see the day when this is the law.
        As was once said about slavery, women's suffrage, etc...

        "If you are still playing for Team Republican and want to have any honor whatsoever, you need to leave the Republican Party now, apologize to America, and work to remove it from our political system." - Brad DeLong

        by radabush on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 10:01:46 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Civil "rights" are "only suggestions," mostly ... (6+ / 0-)

          When the Legislature fears sedition and insurrection ...
          we get "Alien and Sedition" acts, the Smith Act, the Walters McCaren act ... and the heavyweight champion of "head down, mouth shut and papers in order"...  the Patriot Act, under which people can be tried in absentia and sentenced to death.  Even the notorious Star Chamber could not do THAT !

          But those 1st 4th and 5th Amendment rights being trampled,  are not "repealed" exactly, they are just being  "limited as to time, place, and method" with the full approval of the SCOTUS ...

          Contrast that to the semi-sacred nature of the word "infringed" in the 2nd Amendment.  It's the ONLY right that CANNOT be modified, ameliorated, changed or transduced in any way shape or form ... EVERYONE (in the NRA)  SAYS SO !!!  So there !

          Only the 2nd Amendment is, unlike all other Amendments,  ABSOLUTE and inviolate.

          That is because Government itself  (as created by the Consititution) is nodamgood, and nottobeetrusted.

          Therefore, there cannot even be  meaningful REGISTRATION of weapons -- beyond recording initial retail purchases, by hand  in a "bound book" -- to which Government inspectors are allowed access only ONCE a year.  

          That's because
          Don't Touch My Junk, Dude.
          WE WANTS IT PRECIOUS !!!
          And you're not going to take it away.
          MINE !!!!

          FREEEEEE-dumb !

        •  The elimination of slavery & the creation of (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          CarlosJ

          women's suffrage were expansions of liberty.

          Infringing on the 2nd Amendment is a contraction of liberty.

          Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

          by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 01:52:01 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  What about supporting recall electinos backed (3+ / 0-)

            by anti-gay, anti-abortion groups such as the Kochs and the Rocky Mountain Gun Owners.

            You seem to be perfectly fine with those groups taking away "innocent American's rights" but when it comes to common sense regulation of the 2A, that's where you draw the line?

            So, you're God and get to pick which rights can be infringed and which cannot? And to boot, it seems you are a closet right winger.

            "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

            by We Shall Overcome on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 02:58:53 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  What are you babbling about? (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              CarlosJ

              I didn't support the recall elections.
              The people of Colorado did.

              So, you're God and get to pick which rights can be infringed and which cannot?
              No. That's why I'm not pushing to infringe on anybody's rights.
              I leave such nonsense to the GOP and you.

              Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

              by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 05:33:28 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Your presense on this blog is supportive of the (1+ / 1-)
                Recommended by:
                coquiero
                Hidden by:
                CarlosJ

                Koch bros agenda - period, end of story.

                You are more aligned with anti-abortion, anti-equality minded people, than most Dems.

                That's clear from reading a year's worth of your comments.

                Where is this significant bloc of Dems you think support your views? I don't think one exists.

                "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                by We Shall Overcome on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 05:39:13 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  I'm not the one that gave the Koch bros their (0+ / 0-)

                  opportunity.
                  You did.
                  You are the best asset they have.

                  Where is this significant bloc of Dems you think support your views?
                  They were at the recall elections where 20-30% of registered Democrats voted for the recall.

                  Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                  by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 05:46:15 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  You didn't open the door, but you sure did (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    coquiero

                    swing it wide open and encourage people to run through it.

                    The people who opened it did so for a principled reason.

                    You're continued precense on this blog can only be to discourage Dems in teh run up to the November elections.

                    What's done is done - why else would you be here bashing Dems prior to an election?

                    That's been your M.O. at DKos.

                    Please, write a diary about what your doing here, make your points so we can all know more about exactly what that is.

                    "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                    by We Shall Overcome on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 05:54:18 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  That's right. I didn't open the door. (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      CarlosJ

                      You did.

                      Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                      by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 05:59:36 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  What's you're point here? Are you trying to (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        coquiero

                        persuade people to see things your way, or are you only here to harass people?

                        Honest question.

                        Because, your commenting is a lousy way to try to persuade people to see things your way.

                        Why not write a diary and share your thoughts - long form.

                        That's a much more effective way to try persuade people to see things your way.

                        Make your case, because I don't see you winning over a lot of people in the comments.

                        "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                        by We Shall Overcome on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 06:07:03 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

      •  The whole RKBA position has been created by (4+ / 0-)

        Supreme Court interpretations that are different from the plain language of the 2nd Amendment. Other interpretations are possible with different judges.

        •  How do you explain the 43 State Constitutions (5+ / 0-)

          that protect the individual ownership of firearms?

          These things don't/didn't occur in a vacuum.

          -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

          by gerrilea on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 11:31:08 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  great point (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            gerrilea, FrankRose, CarlosJ

            People with experience often talk about things in a quite different way to those without experience.

            For me, society is made up of individuals and each individual decides to spend his time in a way that suits his personal goals

            The internet is crazy. It is like people arguing about what kind of cheese to throw at a portrait, in order to destroy it completely

            by GideonAB on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 11:48:43 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  LOL! That cuts against your argument. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            coquiero

            If there are 43 state constitutions that explicitly protect the individual ownership of firearms, then it would have been a simple thing to write that into the U.S. Constitution.  So since that language isn't in the federal constitution, we can therefore infer that those who wrote it didn't intend any such thing.

            So be a bit more careful about your arguments.  Their legal effects may surprise you.

            "Ça c'est une chanson que j'aurais vraiment aimé ne pas avoir écrite." -- Barbara

            by FogCityJohn on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 11:19:53 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  My guess is that within 25 years we'll see the (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          coquiero

          Supreme Court reverse some of the decisions made by Roberts, Scalia, Alito, Thomas and Kennedy in Heller (5-4), McDonald (5-4), etc. (If not, I suspect we'll see a sharp increase in serious gun incidents and tensions over them.) It would hardly be the first time that SCOTUS has done an about-face, even against a much bigger majority of opinion. Viz. the 7-1 ruling in Plessey v. Ferguson (that upheld mandatory racial segregation in public facilities), the 7-2 ruling in Dred Scott (that held African-Americans could not be American citizens and therefore had no standing to sue), etc.

          Former Supreme Court Chief Justice Warren Burger agrees with you about the plain language of 2A, as diaried by Navy Vet Terp last year:

          The Gun Lobby's interpretation of the Second Amendment is one of the greatest pieces of fraud, I repeat the word fraud, on the American People by special interest groups that I have ever seen in my lifetime.  The real purpose of the Second Amendment was to ensure that state armies - the militia - would be maintained for the defense of the state.  The very language of the Second Amendment refutes any argument that it was intended to guarantee every citizen an unfettered right to any kind of weapon he or she desires. -- Retired Chief Justice Warren Burger, "The Right to Bear Arms," Parade Magazine, January 14, 1990.
          The current Supreme Court is the most right-wing in 100 years, as even conservative judges like Judge Richard Posner agree. For those not familiar with him, Posner is often described as the most influential conservative judge outside the Supreme Court.
          Posner doesn’t think the Second Amendment has anything to do with an individual’s right to bear arms, a basis of the decision for which Scalia wrote the majority opinion. “That didn’t slow down Scalia,” Posner [said], "He loves guns."
          This is part of the story that most of us over 40 are familiar with. The US reactionary conservative movement has packed the courts with right-wing judges, trained (brain-washed?) in right-wing ideology at Koch-funded places like George Mason University's "law and economics" boot-camps and drawing on right-wing think-tanks funded by the usual suspects (Coors, Koch, Scaife, Bradley, Olin, Castle Rock, etc.).

          My worry is that the younger generation is not aware of the root sources of the right-wing rulings, junk science and sound-bites they draw on and regurgitate.

      •  SpamNunn says (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Glen The Plumber
        You will never ever see the day when this is the law.
        Such a law would not deny a persons right to bear arms , so your comment is bull shit

        Beer Drinkers & Hell Raisers

        by Patango on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 11:53:53 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Read the Court cases on what the word "infringe" (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          FrankRose

          means.

          Your reasoning and knowledge of the applicable law is what is bovine scat.  

          “Most people are willing to take the Sermon on the Mount as a flag to sail under, but few will use it as a rudder by which to steer.” ― Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.

          by SpamNunn on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 11:59:51 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Especially when existing precedent (0+ / 0-)

          Specifically, the 1934 National Firearms Act and the Gun Control Act of 1968 already introduce significant restrictions on types of firearms available.

          "If you are still playing for Team Republican and want to have any honor whatsoever, you need to leave the Republican Party now, apologize to America, and work to remove it from our political system." - Brad DeLong

          by radabush on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 01:29:27 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  The NFA is no longer the law and the GCA of 68 (0+ / 0-)

            reasonably restricts ownership by certain persons, i.e convicted felons.  It does not limit how many bullets you can buy.  

            Neither does what you say they do.

            “Most people are willing to take the Sermon on the Mount as a flag to sail under, but few will use it as a rudder by which to steer.” ― Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.

            by SpamNunn on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 07:28:58 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  No it isn't "rapid-fire". (0+ / 0-)

      If you want to redefine words and phrases for yourself thats fine but those definition exist only within your skull.

      You're attempting to engage in solopsisms which is an irrational view and not at all reality-based.

  •  Almost.... (32+ / 0-)

    I was almost as outraged by the "good guy with a gun" comment.  Do you have a thought in your head that hasn't been fed to you by the NRA?  Yes, because an amateur shooting wildly in a dark theater couldn't have done anything but make the situation better.

  •  We need to change the frame (7+ / 0-)

    It's time that this stopped being about 'good guys' vs 'bad guys", and face the reality that it's about responsible gun owners vs irresponsible gun owners. Than you make people understand that the only way to truly be a responsible gun owner is by having the ability to monitor your firearms 24/7 or to secure them to the point where they would be useless for self or home defense. This would eliminate 99% of gun owners.

    I'm no philosopher, I am no poet, I'm just trying to help you out - Gomez (from the song Hamoa Beach)

    by jhecht on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 09:31:19 AM PST

    •  Be responsible for what happens with your firearm (3+ / 0-)

      Carry insurance on it, so if it ever discharges and harms another, you are responsible. If it gets "stolen" then you are responsible. If it shoots a six year old, you are responsible. If it gets taken by your crazy, angry teenager, YOU are responsible.

      Problem is, too many people assume "responsible" is equal to "skilled and trained," and that "owner" equals "expert marksman."

      How does the Republican Congress sit down with all the butthurt over taxing the wealthy?

      by athenap on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 12:39:42 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Congratulations to CeaseFire Colorado (19+ / 0-)

    and Million Moms March and Moms Demand Action who organized the testimony to oppose these bills.  
    The gun lobby was able to get its lemmings to vote out 2 CO in a recall, low turnout election.  We will get those seats back in November.  Gun owners:  start speaking out against the radicals in your midst.  It is past time to call them out.  The NRA leadership has drastically changed this organization since Wayne LaPierre took over.  The Board is full of radicals.  Take back control of this organization that once was a gun safety first group!  PS:  The NRA just had to pay a $63,000 fine in RI for violating campaign finance laws.  This was uncovered by a student at Brown University who doggedly studied campaign finance filings.  We need everyone in every state to do this, because the NRA now is run by a bunch of sociopaths.

    •  The insanity began before Wayne LaPierre (0+ / 0-)

      It began with Harlon Carter, a teenage shotgun murderer (who had his court record expunged and later tried to deny the killing).

      Carter manipulated himself into executive control of the NRA in 1977, in a group which included Charlton Heston. It was "The Cincinnati Revolution," which strove explicitly to roll back the Gun Control Act of 1968. The irresponsibility started there, with a change in NRA focus to lobbying for guns for the sake of guns themselves.

      I am a gun owner. I would need a bag over my head to show up at a gun range due to the obvious ramifications of the post-'77 NRA.

      You guys (you know who you are) want guns in society?  Then manage them. The NRA must be stopped by others, and I propose that gunowners do the heavy lifting.

      What we are seeing right now, with gun violence rates 19.5 times worse than other high-income nations, is a travesty.

      _______________________________________________________________________________________ It seems to me that we humans take turns being dummies.

      by reasonablegunsplz on Fri Feb 14, 2014 at 05:45:37 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  They recalled Morse in favor of this moron? (n/t) (6+ / 0-)

    "Valerie, why am I getting all these emails calling me a classless boor?"

    by TLS66 on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 09:31:30 AM PST

  •  Thanks, Kos! (11+ / 0-)

    "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

    by We Shall Overcome on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 09:32:18 AM PST

  •  Gun fetishism (12+ / 0-)

    How many hundreds of thousands of children must be needlessly slaughtered before the gun fetishists are defeated? Sadly, I believe it truly will have to be hundreds of thousands because we live in a sick society that values guns more than human beings. It disgusts me.

    +++ The law is a weapon used to bludgeon us peasants into submission. It is not to be applied to the monied elite.

    by cybersaur on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 09:33:13 AM PST

  •  I am a gun enthusiast (7+ / 0-)

    First of all the guy is an insensitive dick. High capacity magazine pose no more threat then others, unless you are crazy. That's the problem, People are crazy. Bearing in mind people are crazy we should limit the availability of high capacity magazines. My friends and I were discussing things after a great day of target shooting and my friend said jokingly"Guns don't kill people, I kill people"
    Dark humor to say the least, but it illustrates something. Inanimate objects don't kill people. People do. If the existence and availability of high capacity magazines lead to mass shootings, something needs to be done.

    “He talks a lot and he's not very bright. And that's a combination I like in Republicans.” James Carville

    by Mokislab on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 09:34:47 AM PST

    •  I think a more fitting phrase is... (8+ / 0-)

      "Guns don't kill people, but they sure help!"
      Yes, its from a movie, and spoken by a sociopath, but I think its a very valid phrase.

      We can eve go back the the freedom of speech, how most gun-nuts keep yelling that their rights are protected just as the rights to speech are (not going to go into specific argument as to whether 2nd amendment guarantee individual rights to bear arm). But let's humor them and compare gun right to speech.
      1. I'm not allowed to stand outside my house and shout/yell/scream constantly, with or without amplifier. Noise ordinances trumped my rights of free speech.
      2. I'm not allowed to setup a 1 kW transmitter to flood the AM band with 24-7 rick-rolling, FCC will have my ass for that. FCC regulation trumped my free speech.
      3. I'm allowed to setup a sub-100W transmitter if I have a HAM radio license and follow all regulation.

      I'm sure you can find a LOT of cases where your free speech is constrained, and note that in all cases, your full right to free speech ends the moment it can force their way into someone else's ear. And if you're going to use a tool to augment your speech, you've to be licensed to prove that you're responsible to use those tool.

      We can apply the same reason 2nd amendment. Your right to gun ownership ends the moment you can force a bullet into someone else. By that definition... that's pretty much all the guns. That means mandatory gun licenses.

    •  Straw man (9+ / 0-)
      If the existence and availability of high capacity magazines lead to mass shootings, something needs to be done.
      I don't believe anyone is saying that the existence of any firearm or accessory LEADS to any kind of killing, but certain things, like high capacity magazines, make killing faster and easier.

      The basis to NYSAFE and the recent CT ruling upholding the constitutionality of the magazine ban is that it can be in the public interest, since people on killing sprees are often stopped as they reload.  High capacity magazines mean less reloading, unless we add the caveat, which has been suggested, of mandatory jamming after one bullet.

      I blog about my daughter with autism at her website

      by coquiero on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 09:57:44 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Don't misunderstand me (5+ / 0-)

        I am for banning these magazines. His argument is ridiculous. He is correct that most high capacity magazines suck, but that subject should be discussed on the NRA blog. I am for universal licensing also. Gun violence is way out of control. As lazy as most people are the simplest deterrents  would be very effective. Waiting periods would save lives. More extensive background checks would save lives. His assertion that a shitty magazine saved lives is like saying that a murderer was a good guy because he didn't cut his victim up into pieces. He is just preaching to his choir.

        “He talks a lot and he's not very bright. And that's a combination I like in Republicans.” James Carville

        by Mokislab on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 10:16:42 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Maybe he suggest that (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        coquiero, Silvia Nightshade

        At his next legislative session. Mandatory jamming of all high capacity magazines after one shot. LOL.

        “He talks a lot and he's not very bright. And that's a combination I like in Republicans.” James Carville

        by Mokislab on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 11:20:46 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  How about we address these social issues (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Mokislab, CarlosJ

      by providing universal health care, not "health insurance" and include universal mental health care as well?

      How about we address our failure as a society because we never helped those that actually need/needed it?

      If we don't address the person in this equation, then we'll be chasing our tails like the British are doing today.  They've been pushing for years now to ban knives, because the people, when denied arms, found another tool to use.

      -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

      by gerrilea on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 11:34:53 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  The (5+ / 0-)

        "we must fix XY and Z first!!!" argument gets. so. old.

        "I don't want a unicorn. I want a fucking pegasus. And I want it to carry a flaming sword." -mahakali overdrive

        by Silvia Nightshade on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 12:40:33 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  You're running out of options... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          CarlosJ

          Until we actually do the things I've suggested, it's not "old" at all...but untested.

          I do believe you don't want to embark on that path because it would help millions all across this nation.

          Why would you deny helping millions, especially those that truly need it?

          Is it the money?

          Is it because you want the "easy fix"?

          Is it because you truly don't care about them?

          We could have done so many things to address the violence in this nation but it's been wasted fighting each other over an inanimate object that if and when it's every banned, will never stop the mass murderers.

          That was the intent, correct?

          To save people's lives, right?

          Then why aren't we doing it?

          -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

          by gerrilea on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 10:50:03 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  You're right. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            coquiero

            I don't care about anyone or anything and I'm only on DKos to concern troll people.

            I do believe you don't want to embark on that path because it would help millions all across this nation.
            You're so right, I'm just an asshole who wants people to continue to suffer.

            "I don't want a unicorn. I want a fucking pegasus. And I want it to carry a flaming sword." -mahakali overdrive

            by Silvia Nightshade on Fri Feb 14, 2014 at 05:09:30 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Hon, I've been here a bit longer than you, (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              CarlosJ

              fighting for many things.  Hoping against hope to get "better" Democrats elected.

              When you attempt to push an agenda that will do nothing but ensure failure, as you did in your first reply to me.

              "It's so old"...then I will ask questions to find out what your true motives are.  You really can't want to help people if that's your answer.

              The zealotry and pure hatred this issue pushes many on this side of the isle to makes me wonder if anything but electoral loss is the intent.

              Your precious "gun control" lost us, here in Erie County (Buffalo NY), control of our legislature this past election.

              Have we since 2008 restored funding to mental health, you know, since we elected more democrats?  Have we stopped the destruction the Republicans have wrought? Nope...in fact, our party has become an accessory to their crimes...it's time we got "better" Democrats.

              Drop this crusade you're on before we lose everything I've fought the majority of my life to attain.

              Your dismissive arrogant position tells me all I need to know.

              It's disgusting.

              -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

              by gerrilea on Fri Feb 14, 2014 at 05:48:01 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Yep, (0+ / 0-)

                I'm arrogant and disgusting and whatever else you want to add.  I really don't care what names you want to call me or how you do it by proxy of characterizing "my positions" as if you know all of them on every issue.  

                I said your argument was old because it is.  It's the same thing I see from you everywhere.  I hate the argument that we must fix XYZ first because it obfuscates from the issue at hand.  It is possible for us to work on multiple issues at one time.  As Dems, are we supposed to go through your list, in your order, first before we can tackle other issues?  Are we supposed to only dog one issue (say, restoring funding for mental health to appropriate levels) and leave the others alone until we finish that one?  And if there are serious problems in another realm, say immigration, we just leave that to the side until we finish with mental health?  And who sets the benchmarks?  How do we know we have accomplished "enough" on one issue to move on to the next?  The same argument you present brings up so many other issues that it's a total derail from the topic.  It's like if I went into a diary on the Rs refusing to pass a sensible budget and start saying "But we can't fix this problem until we fix education!"  YES education needs some fixing but that's not the issue we are talking about in this thread.

                I made one comment, not even about the content of this diary and suddenly I'm a zealot who is actively trying to make Democrats lose?  Why are you making such huge leaps in your conclusions about me and my motives?  I disagree with you vehemently on this issue BUT I don't think you are here to destroy the Dem party simply because we disagree on this one thing, I don't characterize your positions on all issues as arrogant or disgusting.  Yes my UID is nearly ten times higher than yours, but why is my opinion garbage because you've been here longer?  I'm sure you're older than me too, so since I had the unfortunate fate of being born after you my opinion is therefore worth less too, right?

                "I don't want a unicorn. I want a fucking pegasus. And I want it to carry a flaming sword." -mahakali overdrive

                by Silvia Nightshade on Fri Feb 14, 2014 at 06:14:20 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Whether or not we "tackle" other issues (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  CarlosJ

                  isn't the point.

                  Focusing on the object used will not change the violence some people cannot control.  This isn't about any other topic.  Americans have been so compartmentalized in their thinking they can't see the whole picture.  The facts are people need help...let's help them!

                  Banning objects and creating more criminals will not solve this problem.   Have you ever suggested to your RW co-workers, friends, etc anything I've been pushing for, like universal mental health services AS one option to reducing violence?  I have, you know what?  They're less defensive and we start actually communicating.  The don't feel like their being pushed into a corner.

                  Our party has wasted an entire freaking year arguing over gun control while people are still dying.  Have we pushed nationally to end the racist drug war?  You know the biggest CAUSE of gun violence in our urban war zones!

                  Nope...  Tell me again how banning the accessories a gun may have is going to reduce the killings in our cities?  It ain't!!!!!!!!

                  How's UBC's going to do that?????
                  Or a national registration?????

                  All these things will do is ensure the profits of the Prison Industrial Complex...it won't help either one of us.  When you pass laws the majority do not agree with, they're gonna ignore them.  We've spent over a trillion dollars on the war on drugs and we're worse off today than 30 yrs ago.  We have the highest incarceration rates in the world because you know what?  People like to get stoned...Who cares?  Let them have their fun, it's not hurting me or you!

                  Put those resources where they can do the most good.   Pass legislation that won't take a constitutional amendment or endless court cases to settle.  Wasting the lives even more Americans while they're being adjudicated.

                  Accept that this truly isn't about you personally but the damn one dimensional "solution" you keep pushing!

                  Your snotty replies tells me you don't want to think this out or don't care to as long as "the solution" is to restrict a constitutionally protected preexisting right.  

                  We have to move this conversation forward.  Gun control is dead in the waters until we get a super majority in the Senate and retake the House...  

                  Well, what can we do in the mean time?  Nothing???

                  -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                  by gerrilea on Fri Feb 14, 2014 at 06:43:44 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

      •  I agree with Hunter... (0+ / 0-)

        those who don't value their nation should be exiled from same. They do not deserve citizenship.

        Democracy, if done properly, is rude, messy, and loud

        by allensl on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 07:47:55 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Guns will increasingly be a loser issue (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lyvwyr101, TofG

    I sincerely hope you're right.

    God used to be my co-pilot, but then we crashed in the mountains and I had to eat him.

    by Eagles92 on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 09:39:51 AM PST

  •  Herpin is one sick puppy, but logical if you (5+ / 0-)

    follow the NRA "philosophy". More guns and ammo is ALWAYS good, ergo a bigger magazine is just super.

  •  I thought this was a reality based community. (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SpamNunn, DavidMS, ER Doc, gerrilea, CarlosJ
    Guns will increasingly be a loser issue for the Right
    The party just received the most humiliating loses in history thanks to the political loser of gun control.
    Three Democrats lost in Democratic Districts in elections during a non-election year, with 20-30% of Democrats voting for the recall....all while the gun controllers had a significant spending advantage.

    Society increasingly supports individual rights and liberties, which is why support for gun rights is up & support for gun control has dropped for the past twenty years.

    Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

    by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 09:42:33 AM PST

    •  It may well be a loser (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SpamNunn, ER Doc, FrankRose, gerrilea, CarlosJ

      in some large metro areas (New York, Chicago, LA, etc...). However, thankfully, the constitution was designed with protections for the smaller and more rural areas that prevent the large metro areas from steam rollering us on this (or any issue).

      •  The filibuster and gerrymandering aren't (10+ / 0-)

        in the Constitution, bub.

      •  Simple question: (6+ / 0-)

        There's a Full Second Amendment Republican running against a Reasonable Regulations Democrat ...

        The outcome of that election decides if there is a Tea Party dominated House or not.

        Assuming RTKBA is currently voting Democratic ... a large assumption in my opinion .. does the Sacred Second trump all other considerations ... like "Right to Life" ?

        •  It's case by case (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          gerrilea, FrankRose

          "Reasonable regulations" as in some not overly intrusive form of universal background check, vote for the democrat. "reasonable regulations" as in magazine bans, registration or licensing of firearms, etc... I would not vote in that race.

          •  When you abstain from voting you HAVE voted (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Glen The Plumber

            -- for the Winner.  And you have chosen to surrender ONE constitutional right, yourself, rather than elect a legislator who might try to limit the scope of another right.

            Now, practically speaking -- I'd go along with your aversion to big magazine bans ... they are pointless and futile -- I wouldn't trade a pro-healthcare Democrat for a corporation enabling  Republican over whether the next mass murderer has to perfect  reloading skills or not.

            But "no registration", "no licensing" ?

            When SCOTUS discovered, for the first time, an INDIVIDUAL right to bear arms in he District of Columbia v. Heller decision they also stated pretty explicitly  that requireing registration and licensing of firearms is NOT "Unconsititutional" ... nor are the  near-bans on automatic weapons and centerfire arms of more than .50 cal. "Unconstitutional" --

            So, it's not so much a question of "Law" as it is one of "desire."  "We WANTS it, Precious, and We votes, we do !"

            And in service of that ... better the Republicans win the Senate and keep the House ...  So, goodbye longterm unemployment insurance ... farewell "banking reform" ... forget "universal health care ... and who needs a Voting Rights Act whenwe have the Means of Redress  in our private arsenals ?

            Now ... let's turn the question around.

            Do you think any Redstaters would vote for a Hardshell, Whole Gospel  Pro-Gun, Democrat with  Tax and Spend voting record,  in the unlikely event such a candidate was opposed by  a Fiscally Conservative Republican who advocated also  "firearms regulated like automobiles?"

            •  I think they would do the same thing I just said (0+ / 0-)

              Not vote.

              My usual analogy is this, would you vote for democrat who was hard core, life begins at conception, no abortion any time for any reason even to save the life of the mother pro-life?

        •  You'll never get a straight answer. (4+ / 0-)

          These guys are usually very careful not to cross the line into actually advocating defeat of Democratic candidates.  (There have been exceptions, and a couple of users were given time outs recently for that very reason.)

          But sometimes they admit they're sitting out elections over the issue of gun control.  So it clearly trumps all other things, like voting rights, civil liberties, the right to choose, labor legislation, inequality, and the right to choose.  

          "Ça c'est une chanson que j'aurais vraiment aimé ne pas avoir écrite." -- Barbara

          by FogCityJohn on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 01:15:57 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  People are sitting out elections because of a (0+ / 0-)

            viewpoint you are pushing.
            In fact, in Colorado 20-30% of registered Democrats went a step further and voted to recall a Democrat because of your issue.

            So this issue clearly trumps all other things, like voting rights, civil liberties, the right to choose, labor legislation, inequality, and the right to choose for you.

            You are a single-issue voter of the worst kind because your single issue costs more voters & hence, elections than any other single-issue.

            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

            by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 01:22:44 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Well, that's certainly clear enough ... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Glen The Plumber

              Everything  remotely "Democrat"  is "held hostage" ... and Arms Anarchy is the "ransom."

              If you-all  can have your guns, and we-all can have voting rights, voting rights, civil liberties, the right to choose and labor legislation.    The" inequality, and the right to choose for you" -- maybe you-all can KEEP those.

              But that's the Deal, right?  Unregulated firearms or Unregulated Corporatism.

              (And here I thought that "Ban Abortion"  was the most important single issue voting demographic.)

              •  Liberals stand for individual rights. (0+ / 0-)

                You do not.

                And here I thought that "Ban Abortion"  was the most important single issue voting demographic.
                You thought wrong. Pro-choice is a demographic every bit as large (larger) than the "ban abortion" demographic.
                The "ban guns" demographic is essentially non-existent. What possible demographic will switch parties or not vote in order to support having their liberties taken from them?

                Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 05:23:49 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Actually, I thought the 2010 electoral defeats (0+ / 0-)

                  were attributable primarily to President Obama's ... how to put this ...  uninspired leadership and less-than-adequate "successes".

                  And you're right:  the Ban Guns ... "Gun Grabber" demographic exists primarily in the fevered fantasies of the NRA's Politbureau.

                  What's more,  the enthusiasm  anything more than token regulation ... "Universal Background Checks"  ... is #11 on everyone but Carolyn McCarthy's 10 Point Action Agenda.

                  Gunners,and the Right Wing apparats that enable them do indeed hold the whip hand, are Top Dog, swing big dicks, and are certainly having everything entirely their own way .... for now

                  And yet still they whine about "Tyranny" and "Loss of Personal Liberty". -- at the suggestion that firearms carry some of the regulatory burden now endured by automobiles and power boats.

                  But, Itellyahwhat ... I never would have imagined how quickly the scales tipped  on the Marriage Equality and Medical Marijuana issues.

                  Here's the situation:  from time to time, previously "lawabiding and responsible" gunners shoot up schools and movie theatres.  Why the Ay-rab Terrrahists have not yet figured out how to buy tools-of-trade at gun shows utterly escapes me   (maybe we just don't HAVE that kind of committed Terrorist in the US, )

                  Still,  the professional criminal community certainly HAS figured out how to move handguns and AR-Types from lax-regulation states to strict regulation states, (not to mention sales to foreign drug cartels)  ... and there's no way in hell to trace the illegal weapon backward from the crime scene to the Straw Buyer, to the moneyman who hired the straw buyer.

                  So ... one day ... probably quite soon,  the need for REAL regulation will become apparent.

                  Then "they" ARE gonna "come for your guns."

                  And you know what ?   I hope you RESIST !

                  •  Marriage Equality & Marijuana are expansions (0+ / 0-)

                    of liberty.
                    Your proposals are contractions of liberty.
                    Society has increasingly supported increasing of liberty & freedoms whether it is pro-choice, marijuana, same-sex marriage or gun rights.

                    Adam, you don't have to be scared of life in the US.
                    Guns aren't 'scary'.
                    Get out more.
                    Educate yourself.

                    Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                    by FrankRose on Fri Feb 14, 2014 at 11:01:42 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  "Guns aren't scary ... " (0+ / 0-)

                      Well,  I guess you've never been robbed at gunpoint ...

                      Or or worked an all-nighter in a "convenience store" in a rough neighborhood.

                      For sure, you've never been raped at gunpoint.  

                      Frank ... if guns AREN'T scary ... then what's the point of them in the first place ?   Sporting Goods? Fashion Statement ?  BigBoyToy?

                      And if only sporting goods, fashion statement, or objet d'arte   object  why the unbending resistance to the only measure I've ever advocated here:   simple registration of ownership ?  

                      Y'know ... like automobiles, powerboats, and marine radio transmitters.

                      Are you feeling that having your home address listed in the phone book is an "infringement" on your Liberty? Don't feel you should have to have Government-issued ID ... much less show it only to board an air plane ?

                      Then how must you feel about the Patriot act ... the NSA surveillance ... and y'know: "birth certificates and marriage licenses?"

                      I mean I get it.   I've been an NRA member, myself, -- long long ago.   I've been 'blooded' in a deer camp.  I know what the inside of a shooting range looks like, sounds like, and I've heard the elevated (and not in the least racist) discourse of  Range Rats.

                      Back in the day,  I was a great supporter of the Berkley Free Love and Filthy Speech movement.  Absolute rights ... extended BEYOND absurdum are the special provence of the young and the purile -- which I WAS, well into my 20s.   (And oh yeah, "all property is theft," "never trust anyone over 30", and TANSTAAFL! -- ie; don't TAX Air ... sell it at a profit."

                      Factoid for your consideration:  as you ought to well know ... rights and liberties are NOT absolute ... vide: Smith Act, McCaren Act, Alien and Sedition Acts..  But more that that, the Roberts/Scalia Court addressed this very point in District of Columbia v. Heller -- which is the only place outside the NRAs Agitprop Department that an INDIVIDUAL Right to Bear (also buy, sell and trade) Arms can be found.

                      And even Scalia didn't feel ANY of those "rights" were free, gratis and unlimited.

                      All  DC v Heller concluded was:  because 2nd Amendment rights are individual, municipalities cannot COMPLETELY BAN ownership The general run of civilian weapons -- as long as the weapons are kept "in the home."  

                      But, from that decision came the entire Cult of Concealed Carry -- with enormous profits to gunsmiths and holster makers alike.  (Too bad about the crime victims, though.)

                      All the Gun Grabbing Democrats proposed THIS time around, is that the impotent "background checks" applied to firearms purchases in licensed retail establishments also be applied to the casual sales that take place in back yards and parking lots.

                      And even THAT's  "too much."

                      •  "Robbed at gun point" The problem is the robber. (0+ / 0-)

                        Or are you arguing that being robbed at knife point is a relaxing endeavor?

                        Then how must you feel about the Patriot act ... the NSA surveillance
                        I am against them.
                        I can only assume that you are not.
                        rights and liberties are NOT absolute
                        Nor is the Second currently. There are a myriad of laws for the usage & handling of firearms.
                        Strange that you still aren't satisfied with them.
                        Cult of Concealed Carry -- with enormous profits to gunsmiths and holster makers alike.  (Too bad about the crime victims, though.)
                        CCW holders have lower incidences of crime than the general public & even LEOs.

                        If you want more gun laws, all you have to do is convince the electorate that they should lose their liberties because of the crimes of murderers & for your piece of mind.
                        What do you have to worry about?
                        You've been doing such a bang-up job of it thus far.

                        Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                        by FrankRose on Fri Feb 14, 2014 at 04:06:57 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  you can run away (0+ / 0-)

                          from a guy with a knife.

                          also, hard to murder a classroom full of kids with a knife.

                          "Against the assault of laughter, nothing can stand." - Mark Twain

                          by GrimReefa on Fri Feb 14, 2014 at 05:36:27 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Not if the guy with a knife is faster. (0+ / 0-)

                            Knives are used in over six times the number of murders than all rifles combined are.

                            Looks like there is a lot of banning that needs to be done.

                            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                            by FrankRose on Fri Feb 14, 2014 at 05:47:50 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  "All Rifles combined" ... Disengenuous much ? (0+ / 0-)

                            Figures don't lie, but liars can figure ... and if you leave handguns out of the equation ... discount the suicides as irrelevant  ... and you don't bother to count  --  indeed you pass laws against counting -- homocides other than "murders."  

                            And on top of it you redefine self-defense to cover the George Zimmerman's (and his copycats) of the world.

                            Then sure .;..  

                            It's no lie ...

                            "More murders are committed with knives than with rifles."

                            And once again ...do try to understand... no one is saying "ban" except the NRA's Agitprop division.

                            Register -- like cars, power boats, and marine radio transmitters.

                            (I guess y'justgotta keep repeating yourself with some people.)

                          •  FFS (0+ / 0-)

                            The statement I responded to was referring to 'Assault Weapons'.
                            'Assault Weapons' are a subset of rifles.

                            no one is saying "ban" except the NRA's Agitprop division.
                            Say it with me: "Assault Weapons BAN". You know, the Bill proposed by President Obama & introduced to the Senate by DiFi?
                            FFS, they even put the word 'ban' in the bill to clear up any confusion.

                            "Register"
                            Registration leads to confiscation, just like it did in Australia, Great Britain, was attempted in California with SKSs & is currently happening in New York.

                            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                            by FrankRose on Fri Feb 14, 2014 at 08:46:28 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Hell, I've known 120lb women, confident that they (0+ / 0-)

                            can take the knife away shattering  the hand that held it .  More importantly,  their martial arts instructors AGREE.

                            A handgun at more than arm's length, and a couple of zip ties ... not so easy to defeat. And MY Sensei taught that no one (regardless of rank) never try.

                    •  a quibble (0+ / 0-)

                      Guns aren't 'scary'.

                      A classroom full of kindergarteners would like to disagree with you. But they're all dead.

                      "Against the assault of laughter, nothing can stand." - Mark Twain

                      by GrimReefa on Fri Feb 14, 2014 at 05:35:03 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  The person that killed them is what was scary. (0+ / 0-)

                        And that is the reason they are dead.

                        The largest mass murder in US history was perpetrated  with a gallon of gasoline.
                        Does that make gasoline 'scary' to you as well?

                        Over twice as many murders are perpetrated with bare hands than by all rifles combined.
                        Does that make bare hands scary to you?

                        Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                        by FrankRose on Fri Feb 14, 2014 at 05:53:07 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

            •  I vote Democratic. Do you? (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Glen The Plumber, coquiero

              More to the point, I've voted Democratic for decades, even when Democrats haven't been supportive of issues that concern me much more directly than the Second Amendment concerns you.

              As a gay man, I voted Democratic way back when Democrats refused to support equality for gay people.  I voted for them despite that stance because I cared about other things they did support, like reproductive rights, voting rights, labor rights, and the environment.  (Eventually, through a lot of hard work and activism, we changed the party's views on gay rights and related issues.)

              Of course, I was in a somewhat different position than you are.  I knew that even if the Democratic Party wasn't supporting my rights, at least they weren't as bad as the Republicans.  You, on the other hand, are confronted by the fact that on this issue, you prefer the Republican position.  

              So unlike me, you have to choose between your pet issue (guns) and the other stuff you claim to care about.  Will you support Democrats who want to protect things like Social Security and the environment but who support regulating guns over Republicans who want to destroy things like Social Security and the environment but who oppose regulating guns?

              "Ça c'est une chanson que j'aurais vraiment aimé ne pas avoir écrite." -- Barbara

              by FogCityJohn on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 03:57:24 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Yes. I vote Democratic. (0+ / 0-)

                I too have voted Democratic for decades (except for Nader in 2000).

                But you are wrong; I have a third choice. Unless there is a Democrat that strongly comes out against gun bans, I will take the wife out on a lovely politics free Tuesday evening.
                I have faith that the party will learn the errors of trying to take liberties away from innocent people, as they did in the aftermath of the last disaster the gun controllers created in 1994.

                Now you have a choice. Continue to try to take liberties away from constituents & lose voters & elections, or decide that reproductive rights, voting rights, labor rights, and the environment are more important.

                I hope you choose wisely.
                But even if you don't; the party will.

                Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 05:30:38 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  We know you have this choice: (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  AdamSelene
                  But you are wrong; I have a third choice. Unless there is a Democrat that strongly comes out against gun bans, I will take the wife out on a lovely politics free Tuesday evening.
                  As so many of you RKBA folks never tire of telling us, you're sitting out elections because you don't like the Democratic Party's position on gun control.  So you'll sit idly by if Republicans win elections.  We've heard your message, loud and clear.

                  But please don't tell me you give a shit about anything other than guns.  If you can't get your ass to the voting booth because you disagree with the party on one issue, then I can't take very seriously your claim that you're a Democrat.  I pulled the Democratic lever for years, even during the height of the AIDS crisis when most Democrats were afraid to say the word "gay."

                  So take your ridiculous whining and bellyaching about imagined oppressions like magazine limits to somebody else.  I've stuck with this party despite its shortcomings on things that actually matter.  If you don't like it, do what we did.  Engage in some activism and change it.  It should be a lot easier for you than it was for us.  We didn't have anything like the money the gun folks have.

                  "Ça c'est une chanson que j'aurais vraiment aimé ne pas avoir écrite." -- Barbara

                  by FogCityJohn on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 10:55:47 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Look in the mirror. (0+ / 0-)

                    You know that this costs the party voters.
                    You want the Democratic party to win.
                    Therefore you either
                    a) Care about gun control more than the Democrats winning elections.
                    or
                    b) Don't realize that 'less voters' is 'bad'.

                    I can't take very seriously your claim that you're a Democrat.
                    I am registered as a Democrat.
                    I have voted Democratic (minus Nader 2000)
                    I have given money to the Party.
                    I have convinced others to vote Dem.
                    Whether or not you consider me a 'Democrat' is irrelevant. I have always been a Democratic voter & contributor.

                     

                    Engage in some activism and change it.
                    I am. I expect a significant change starting on November 5.

                    Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                    by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 11:16:10 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  "I'm a Democrat" ... As was Strom Thurman (0+ / 0-)

                      Just as Marshal Philippe Pétain was undoubtedly a patriotic native-born Frenchman ... and a war hero to boot.

                      But they both had very disagreeable partners-in-crime.

                    •  hmmmm... (0+ / 0-)

                      Therefore you either
                       a) Care about gun control more than the Democrats winning elections.

                      you say that like it's a bad thing.

                      We elect Democrats so they can do what they need to do in order to make the country better. If you elect people and they don't do anything, what is the point?

                      you have to have principles you are willing to fight for. and being anti-child murder is a principle that is worth fighting for.

                      "Against the assault of laughter, nothing can stand." - Mark Twain

                      by GrimReefa on Fri Feb 14, 2014 at 05:33:40 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Protecting Rights is what makes this country (0+ / 0-)

                        better.

                        A liberal's principles is protecting the rights of innocent people.

                        Your irrational & ignorant fears don't supplant the rights of innocent Americans.

                        Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                        by FrankRose on Fri Feb 14, 2014 at 05:58:20 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

    •  Terry McAuliffe did alright (16+ / 0-)

      Also, gay couples aren't deadly to their fellow citizens. Gun reform is about public safety, a proper concern for people to have.

      Support for common-sense gun control measures like background checks and limiting magazine sizes is robust, as evidenced in all the recent polling.

    •  The Colorado gun lobby has handed the state of (8+ / 0-)

      Colorado to the Dems. Don't believe it? Read this:

      He’s also a primary, if almost unrecognized, reason why Democrats, in a little less than a decade, have turned this once-red state a deepening shade of blue. While Colorado has changed, Brown—Colorado politicos know him as just plain “Dudley”—has not. Nor does he intend to. The RMGO’s demand of “no compromises” on gun rights is an indirect shot at the National Rifle Association, which Brown sees as too willing to cut gun control deals. (The disdain is mutual; the NRA once called Brown the “Al Sharpton of the gun movement,” too extreme for America’s most notorious firearm lobby.) True to form, last July, two days after James Holmes shot 70 moviegoers in Aurora, killing 12, I asked him about proposals to limit ammunition purchases. When I mentioned Holmes had 6,000 rounds with him that night, Brown said, “I call 6,000 rounds running low.”
      http://www.5280.com/...

      And, take a look at what is going on in conservative Castle Rock, Colorado (60% GOPer and voted for Romney by nearly 63%) - citizens are gathering signatures to stop the repeal of a ban on open carry. In other words, they want the ban on open carry to remain in place:

      http://norepealcastlerock.com/

      "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

      by We Shall Overcome on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 09:54:40 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  There was a few successful (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        gerrilea

        'gatherings of signatures' in Colorado.....but your example isn't one of them.

        But if you think that the recall of two Democrats and the resignation of one is a good thing, then by all means, you should support mag bans.
        I expect the party to have a significantly different opinion of how 'good' the recalls were.

        Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

        by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 10:12:15 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  You should read that article, it's a good, fast (5+ / 0-)

          read and you would learn that Colorado Dems LOVE the Colorado gun lobby - the gun lobby helped them get elected.

          You also weren't at the state capital yesterday to see the overwhelming numbers of gun safety advocates that showed up to tell the gun lobby they don't want guns in schools. It's the opposite of what happened when legislation was being passed last year - in other words, the gun lobby looks defeated.

          You have a casual interest in some of the more sensational headlines to come out of the state, but you are not really in tune with what's really going on.

          "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

          by We Shall Overcome on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 10:18:17 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Yet they didn't show up to protect the (0+ / 0-)

            senators in a recall election.

            Registered Democrats did show up to those elections: and 20-30% of them did so specifically to recall Democrats.

            Registered Democrats did sign petitions: Three of them gathered enough signatures, your example is not one of them.

            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

            by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 10:22:41 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  One step up, two steps back for the gun lobby .... (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              TXdem, Glen The Plumber, cal2010

              did they really do themselves a favor by putting Bernie Helprin in office? Remember, he's the guy that just said he was glad the Aurora shooter had a 100-round drum. Doh!

              And, you still haven't read that article - check it out. It would bring you up to speed on the reality of gun politics in Colorado, that is, the gun lobby gave Colorado to the Dems.

              There is much to thank the gun lobby for - marriage equality, renewable energy standards, gun safety legislation and so on.

               

              "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

              by We Shall Overcome on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 10:49:27 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  I saw the reality. (0+ / 0-)

                So did the three Senators that lost their jobs thanks to your viewpoint.

                Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                by FrankRose on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 11:00:43 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Here, I'll make it a little easier for you .... (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  coquiero, Glen The Plumber, cal2010
                  Not many have chosen to engage Brown, if only because, as Ament says, “No one likes to fight with a skunk.” There are recent indications that investigating his finances could prove fruitful for his opponents: his furtive coordination with groups like Public Advocate; the federal elections probe surrounding his longtime partner and former Michele Bachmann political director, Guy Short, whose consulting firm, according to a sworn affidavit, allegedly received at least $40,000 in payments from Bachmann’s political action committee, MichelePAC, in violation of federal campaign finance law; and the RMGO’s temporary loss of its tax-exempt status in 2011 because Brown didn’t file an informational return for the nonprofit for three years, an oversight he blamed on a computer glitch. Such carelessness and disregard for campaign finance law could haunt him if he starts to pick national fights.
                  http://www.5280.com/...

                  "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                  by We Shall Overcome on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 11:08:18 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

        •  Here in NY the magazine ban was ruled (0+ / 0-)

          unconstitutional and unenforceable.

          -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

          by gerrilea on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 11:40:32 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Nice try, but (3+ / 0-)

            wrong.

            He said that one phrase was written badly and needed to be clarified.  He upheld most of the law.

            I blog about my daughter with autism at her website

            by coquiero on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 11:50:18 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Wishful thinking. (0+ / 0-)
              Judge Skretny sided with the gun owners, writing that the restriction could wind up “pitting the criminal with a fully-loaded magazine against the law-abiding citizen limited to seven rounds.”
              http://www.newsday.com/...
              Sketny said the provision was "largely an arbitrary restriction that impermissibly infringes on the rights guaranteed by the Second Amendment."

              He said the state's argument for the need for a seven-bullet limit is "tenuous, strained, and unsupported in the record," according to Tuesday's decision.

              -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

              by gerrilea on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 12:01:44 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Newsday. Nice source. (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Patango, i saw an old tree today

                NY Judge Uphold Majority of New York Gun Law

                But, saying that “whether regulating firearms is wise or warranted is not a judicial question; it is a political one,” he found that Mr. Cuomo and lawmakers had acted within their bounds when they drafted the gun laws, and specifically cited the Bushmaster rifle and 30-round magazine used in the Newtown shooting.

                “Of course, this is only one incident,” Judge Skretny wrote. “But it is nonetheless illustrative. Studies and data support New York’s view that assault weapons are often used to devastating effect in mass shootings.”

                He said that the gun law “applies only to a subset of firearms with characteristics New York State has determined to be particularly dangerous and unnecessary for self-defense; it does not totally disarm New York’s citizens; and it does not meaningfully jeopardize their right to self-defense.”

                I blog about my daughter with autism at her website

                by coquiero on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 12:05:21 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  Maybe if there were some sort of (3+ / 0-)

                licensing that proved a gun owner could shoot what he was aiming at, all he'd need was seven rounds. Call me crazy, but having a whole bunch of "good guys with guns" flinging them around in untrained panic doesn't seem like much of an advantage in dealing with armed criminals.

                How does the Republican Congress sit down with all the butthurt over taxing the wealthy?

                by athenap on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 12:49:15 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

    •  We've had far more humiliating losses... (5+ / 0-)

      Bush v Gore comes to mind... in the SCOTUS...

      I guess for a single issue, one note samba like yourself it may have been the most humiliating... for those of us who don't have "Guns" at the very top of our one-item list, we've had far more humiliating losses...

      Just think how "humiliated" you'll be when a sane Democrat re-takes the seat next election...

      Baby, where I come from...

      by ThatSinger on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 10:48:27 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  And if only he had had... (8+ / 0-)

    a shoulder-launched, personalized nuclear weapon, that would have been even better...right?

    Unbelievable.

    And by that, I mean totally believable.

    How about I believe in the unlucky ones?

    by BenderRodriguez on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 09:48:35 AM PST

  •  It's a good thing that the murderer (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lyvwyr101, Glen The Plumber

    expressed his 2nd Amendment rights in public, because there's no telling what would happen to our ability for owning all sorts of effective killing machines if more legal gun owners decided to shut up concerning our rights.  The more firepower, the bigger the statement - and, the better deterrent for all those black helicopter teams just dying to get a crack on an unprepared populace.

    "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

    by wader on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 09:51:28 AM PST

  •  It doesn't really matter. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    gerrilea

    Someone using a perfectly legal Remington Tactical Magnum shotgun with a 9 round tube loaded with OO buck could take out 30 people in a single room in about ten seconds.  

    “Most people are willing to take the Sermon on the Mount as a flag to sail under, but few will use it as a rudder by which to steer.” ― Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.

    by SpamNunn on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 09:53:26 AM PST

  •  So what? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    gerrilea

    Gun control advocates showed up for the hearing. But not for the vote.

    http://callatimeout.blogspot.com/

    by DAISHI on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 09:54:16 AM PST

  •  When it comes to preserving rights of psychopaths (12+ / 0-)

    to kill children with automatic weapons, a 100 round clip is TWICE as good as a 50 round clip.

    Fiat justitia ruat caelum "Let justice be done though the heavens fall."

    by bobdevo on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 09:55:03 AM PST

  •  Obviously, Aurora was God's will. (4+ / 0-)

    God have us 2nd amendment rights. Biblical math says 100 rounds is better than 10 rounds. God protects the rights of killers.


    I’m not a big fan of vegetable gardens. Like my chickens, I prefer my salads to be cage free.

    by glb3 on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 10:03:59 AM PST

  •  A good guy with a gun in a dark crowded theatre? (8+ / 0-)

    I hope the good guy with a gun would remember to bring his night vision goggles.

    Enough is enough! I have had it with these motherfu*king snows on this motherfu*king plain!

    by shoeless on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 10:10:52 AM PST

  •  He seems to be confusing Second Amendment Rights (10+ / 0-)

    with Second Amendment Rites.

    Then again, perhaps not.

    Exception: [undefined object]

    by here4tehbeer on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 10:15:22 AM PST

  •  Yeah, Bonehead never strained any braincells (3+ / 0-)

    to help craft a public commons in which "No Guy" shows up with a gun...What a puppet. What a useless, infantile piece of arrested development.

  •  I hope Kos reads all the comments… (9+ / 0-)

    Particularly the ones from the RKBA faction…

    At least none of them HR'ed his tip jar… yet...

    Baby, where I come from...

    by ThatSinger on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 10:23:01 AM PST

  •  Loser issue? When? (0+ / 0-)

    2020? 2032?

    I say never. Laws GOT WORSE after Newtown, and as you said, unless there's a Presidential election, Democrats stay home.

    I don't say stop fighting but I have close to zero hope on the gun issue.  

  •  A very stupid thing to say (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dconrad

    ...but much like the broken clock (it's correct once/day) he accidentally hits upon a good point.    Those 100-round drum magazines suck ass - they really only appeal to the posers and losers who see them in the movies.   A true killer who knows anything about firearms knows that they are more likely to jam (because all the weight pulling down on the magazine) - much like these wannabes who will tape a couple of 30-round magazines together.   It looks great in the movies, and you might get away with it, but you don't want to be in a situation where your life depends upon it.
    All that said, I'd still ban the damn things as they serve no purpose whatsoever.   In a really twisted way, some lives may have been saved by Holmes' stupidity (in other ways, too, as I'll get to)

    As for  Herpin - he's no doubt just another paid subsidiary of the NRA, but he didn't say it was "totally awesome" or "great" that the murderer had a 100-round magazine - he was pointing out the accidental irony of the situation, I think, basically "as bad as it was it could've been worse".   Pretty stupid to say it before an audience of family members of the victims, but not the horrific comment some are making it out to be.

    This twisting-of-words happened to me on another board's political forum after the Aurora murders.   Remember, the early reports were that  Holmes threw a couple of tear gas cannisters into the theater before he started shooting.   I commented that it might have saved a few lives because it also obstructed Holmes' line-of-sight.    Gas mask or not, all the confusion and panic that tear gas caused probably allowed a few people to get away.   What if he'd worn night-vision-goggles?   You can get those for a couple hundred bucks at any gunshow or out of a magazine, too.  It definitely could've been much worse.   I wasn't endorsing mass killings or cheering-on James Holmes.  I never said "it was totally awesome that Holmes had tear gas!" or "it was great that he had tear gas!" - but that's how the kneejerk reactionaries characterized it, because they were more interested in scoring political points than examining the actual incident.  

    •  it was stupid ..and.. horrific (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ridemybike

      the callousness and glibness, just to have an opinion and blather on, maybe act like a know it all

      it seems some people can talk about slaughter and mutilation more easily than others

      after hearing this individual this is what the father said (from the link in the diary)

      “I’ve had a lot of thoughts since July 20, 2012, but never once did I think anyone was better off because the shooter brought a hundred round drum into that theater,” Sullivan said.
  •  "Good guys" with guns in theaters (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    coquiero, cal2010, Glen The Plumber

    will only pull out their weapons when threatened with popcorn.  Proven fact.

    We desperately need gun sanity in this country.  And that means mandatory training, licensure that includes a mental health screen, sales only to licensed individuals, universal registration, re-licensure, and forfeiture.  Hard time if you're caught buying and transferring to an unlicensed user.  It's a goddamn lethal weapon, not a toy.

    "Education is the key to unlock the golden door of freedom." -- G.W.Carver

    by northbronx on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 12:08:19 PM PST

  •  The NRA are terrorists. n/t (4+ / 0-)

    You show a little grit and you lands in jail.

    by cal2010 on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 12:11:07 PM PST

  •  Gun ownership down? That's no surprise. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Glen The Plumber

    After the panicky gun binge of a year or so ago, I'm sure the new gun sales are still depressed. After all, the gun nuts either bought every gun that resembled an AR-16 in sight.
    I'm positive that half of they buyers believed they would cash in big later when the ban happened, too. Not all were completely fear driven; greed played a part.

    So, to me it would be no surprise that factory fresh new gun sales, sold by registered dealers, are still  slow. But I'm not at all sure sales at gun shows, where there is much less regulation, aren't doing just as good as they were at the height of the frenzy.

    I'm also sure a lot of gun nuts are selling at a loss now, as they couldn't afford that 4th or 5th gun in the first place. In the end, we still have enough around to arm every adult in the country, I think, between the new and old guns.

    Ammunition sales were even worse during the panic. Gun nuts were buying boxes of 1,000 rounds, as many as they could lay hands on, stuffing their garages with barrels of ammunition. The assault calibers couldn't be found in gun stores for months, and supplies are still short compared to demand.

    And they've been bitching about the prices of new ammo ever since, but they still fork over the cash.

    It's all nuts. I was a shooter for years when I was young, and never went through 1,000 rounds in my life. I quit hunting and target shooting decades ago, and never had the need for more than a box or two at a time, ever. It is as if we have an entire generation who are hooked on guns like junkies are hooked on heroin.

    Right many are called, and damn few are chosen.

    by Idaho07 on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 03:37:45 PM PST

  •  What a ridiculous diary. (0+ / 0-)

    Would you want someone comitting harm to have good reliable equipment or wnat them to have equipment prone to malfunction?

    Obviously you would wish them to have equipment prone to malfunction.  

    Furthermore if they use equipment more prone to malfunction you would want them to malfunction.

    So yes it was a "good thing" that he used less than optimal equipment.  The fact that he was prepared with a backup weapon has no bearing on if it is good that the equipment failed.

    To what great lows must one sink to try to attack someone for stating that it is good that someone doing something bad chooses bad tools?  Lets toss out rational thinking and just spray partisan poison all over so we can seem extrodinarily petty.  Surely being so obviously petty won't disuade voters from listening to us on issues where we are factual if we are ever factual again in this vitriolic environment?

    This isn't a reality-based diary in this supposed "reality-based" community.

    •  Carlos, you and your buddies miss the point. (0+ / 0-)

      Neither weapon was good in the situation.
      Neither magazine would be good in the situation.

      The presence of these consumer products is what has caused the U.S. gun violence incidents to spike compared to other civilized nations.  These items are not civilized, and disenfranchised individuals act out with them.

      It's the guns (and your gun mentality, Carlos) that are contributing to the problem.

      What is ridiculous is your mindset.

      _______________________________________________________________________________________ It seems to me that we humans take turns being dummies.

      by reasonablegunsplz on Sat Feb 15, 2014 at 07:56:18 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Untrue. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        KVoimakas

        There are nations with have tougher gun laws and higher per capita issues of violence, murder, and gun use.  

        The only way you could justify your statement is you engage in the circular argument of defining civilized nations as ones with lots of gun control thereby excluding counter examples.

        The CDC and several others studies have shon not even corelation let alone causation between gun control laws and rates of firearm ownership and crime, violence, murder, and the like.

        Its a popular myth that goes around that is unsupported by facts.   Blaming my thoughts or inanimate objects on the actions of people who are not me is absurd and unsupported by reason and the scientific evidence.

  •  nra fool (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    reasonablegunsplz

    I'd love to see Holmes stick an AR 15 up this fool's arse .

    •  Bingo. Holmes vs. Carlos, get it on! (0+ / 0-)

      Carlos has a gun for male "plumage", he says on another thread. And it's carried openly (thus enhancing his quick-draw).
      So Holmes better be good...

      You can't make this crap up. But it's clearly pathetic behavior.

      _______________________________________________________________________________________ It seems to me that we humans take turns being dummies.

      by reasonablegunsplz on Fri Feb 14, 2014 at 06:51:09 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  NRA...Multi Round Magazines. (0+ / 0-)

    "NRA...National Rifle Association=Not Responsible Americans."

  •  100 round magazines... (0+ / 0-)

    "NRA...National Rifle Association = Not Responsible Americans..."

  •  Guns in Colorado (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    reasonablegunsplz

    Those like this knuckleheaded legislator who say these kinds of things and shill for the gunmakers need to be charged with accessory to murder. No matter what propaganda these people parrot from the overflowing coffers of the gun manufacturers as funneled through groups like the NRA who back the passing of these murderous laws are in fact partners in crime. No matter what distorted ignorance about the 2nd amendment bull shit they concot, the fact is, in no other country is this type of accessory to murder allowed. To say it was good that he had a 100 round magazine might have been a good thing in the Aurora shooting isn't only ignorant of facts it's simply irresponsible, it aids and abets murder. You far right gun types know you are on the losing end of history. The ground swell is already moving against you and as long as you have idiots like this CO legislator mouthing the craziest of ideas, well, you can see where this is thankfully going.

  •  Gun Laws (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    reasonablegunsplz

    If you're tired of asking for sane, sensible gun laws you might want to check out and Join the National Gun Victims Advocacy Council and take our Pledge. We have a winning strategy. We organized a boycott of Starbucks when they announced they would welcome customers carrying guns in stores in those states where the law allowed such nonsense. We organized along with others a boycott of going into their stores and buying their products elsewhere. It didn't take long for the economic impact to be felt and for Starbucks to do the moral thing: They've banned all firearms in all their stores across the country.

    Join us, we're planning and executing more actions. It's time we stopped asking for sane gun laws from these far right gun nutters, now we can make them and their supporters pay. & paying is what they understand. Join us and take the Pledge.

  •  I wish... (0+ / 0-)

    Republican state Senator Bernie Herpin doesn't have a clue, much less any sense of propriety or feelings of compassion. It's just too bad that this Second Amendment zealot wasn't in the audience at the Aurora movie theater on the massacre's fateful, tragic night, seated directly in front of the gunman who had the rifle with that awesome 100-round magazine clutched in his filthy, murderous hands, with Herpin subsequently taking a kill shot straight to the back of his pointy head. Yeah, that would've been righteous.

    Bernie Herpin should be the Poster Child for Democratic voter apathy. He and dumbasses like him are what we get when people don't care enough to head to their local polls and cast ballots for their candidates on election day. And not only is this what we GET when we don't vote, even in special elections, it's what we richly DESERVE for failing to do so. Through their complacency, the good voters of Colorado have made this messy bed, and now they must lie in it.

  •  Well, consider the source... (0+ / 0-)

    The conservative gun nut rationale that because the Aurora theater shooter was wielding a rifle with a totally awesome 100-round magazine, it actually SAVED lives is proof positive that these morons have gone completely 'round the bend. Really, this type of thinking just batshit crazy. Tell me again, HOW IN THE NAME OF ALL THAT IS HOLY did this asshole get elected?

  •  Bernie, go to the movies, please... (0+ / 0-)

    Go to the mall; get out there and stroll around in public as much as possible!

    Eventually, maybe you'll get caught up in some public shooting, and if you survive, you can give us some more of your priceless wisdom.

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