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I am getting nervous. Is there a holdout? Are they trying to go with reduced charges? These people actually find this guy credible just because he kept repeating one blatant lie without blinking?  12 hours and counting? Not a single witness corroborated what he said.

There are 8 whites(4 men, women), 2 black women, 1 latino, 1 Asian female(I hope she is Asian American and not Asian). Not one black man? But 4 white men are more acceptable to both sides? How many vetoes does the defense get in jury selection?

How is this case even ambiguous? Even Jodi Arias had less evidence against her. Or maybe she should have killed her boyfriend in FL and just said she shot him in self defense instead of hiding the murder and then later claiming she felt scared.

And why did they even want to review the surveillance video again? Even if he charged out of the car, that is not reason to shoot someone, otherwise, you would have a shooting every hour in FL. Just go to any bar and every single barfight could end in a shooting by this standard. But we have to assume no such evidence exists that Davis charged after Dunn because the prosecutors would have noticed it in the tape before shooting down such a claim.

Now there is a new witness , Charles Hendrix, who has some damaging character reference related to Dunn where he asked Hendrix , "can you have someone take care of this guy for me" in terms of some past issue. The prosecutors had this guy on their witness list, but never call him on the stand. Though, seriously, with what they already had , there was no need for Hendrix on the stand. Hendrix has also said that Dunn expressed anger that the country was being taken over by minorities. But then again, this is not surprising just looking at him on the stand. I have seen people like this in my life.  A lot of whites tend to relax their guard around me maybe because they feel that as an Indian American , I will tolerate that since they are talking about blacks? In some cases, I am not exempt and I notice their glare if I talk to a white woman at a bar. This anger is real and a bigger threat to a minority than Al Quaeda in this country.

I don't care how racist this jury may or may not be. I don't care if some magical tape shows Jordan getting out of his car. These prosecutors are a bunch of dumbasses not to have this guy nailed clearly for murder even to  a racist jury considering all the events surrounding this incident.

And adding to my anger is some stupid white woman who is whining to CNN that there are racist protestors outside the court. There was a measly small crowd of people hoping it wouldn't be a Zimmerman 2 and this bothers the lady? They were quietly protesting the murder and this bothers her?

Oh and why didn't the prosecutor debunk the defense claim that this guy was never in trouble for any violent incidents with a "well, assuming we take the defense at their word for it since we haven't explored every inch of his past, so what? Aren't there people who have repressed anger issues who explode at some point at a trigger like music they don't like? This is hardly the first case where a person committed his first  and only crime". Or while it may have been prejudicial to use Hendrix as a witness right off the bat, didn't the defense give the prosecution that opportunity once they produced their own witnesses contradicting what Hendrix would have claimed?

Of all the people, Ann Coulter, had the best comment on CNN HLN "There is really nothing to analyze so deep about this case. He shot the kids over nothing more than music." (ignore Coulter's other nonsense she mentioned on the show).

Originally posted to pravin on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 03:15 PM PST.

Also republished by Trial Watch.

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Comment Preferences

  •  My fervent hope (8+ / 0-)

    is that they are choosing between guilty of 1st or 2nd degree murder. But this is Florida, and I fear that Dunn may walk.

    "Well Clarice, have the lambs stopped screaming?"

    by buffie on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 03:23:06 PM PST

  •  One concern I have (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    peacestpete, Tortmaster, JoanMar, Mannie, FG

    The Stand Your Ground instructions were included in the Jury Instructions. While some here insisted Dunn's defense was not a Stand Your Ground defense because he never asked for a pre-trial hearing, I always believed he would mount an SYG defense, and he has:

    "Stand Your Ground" laws have historically been used to support claims of self-defense without requiring defendants to attempt to retreat or flee when lethal danger is present. There was a significant amount of talk surrounding "Stand Your Ground" in Florida during the Zimmerman case, but a pretrial "Stand Your Ground" hearing was dropped as a defense strategy.

    Although Dunn also did not ask for a "Stand Your Hearing" to receive immunity from prosecution, he was still allowed to raise the law's principles during trial or in jury instructions.

    KOS: "Mocking partisans focusing on elections? Even less reason to be on Daily Kos."

    by fcvaguy on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 03:30:17 PM PST

    •  Why wouldnt everyone win on a Stand your ground (6+ / 0-)

      Wouldn't any murderer get away with this law as long as they were not stupid enough to say beforehand that they wanted to murder that person. They can just say they saw a weapon?

    •  It seems that SYG instructions are included in... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      fcvaguy, Tortmaster, a2nite

      most cases like this.
      I'm surprised & concerned that it's taking so long to come to a verdict.
      I watched CNN's Headline News? (it might have a new name). They were on Verdict Watch all afternoon. I never watch that channel, but did watch quite a bit today because the station kept implying that a verdict could come "at any moment".
      CNN was on Snow Watch most of the day & MSNBC had Olympics. I really hoped a verdict would happen today.
      I did learn that the jury had more women than men, but most of the women didn't have kids. Women with kids might have made them more sympathetic to the dead teenager.
      Two of the jurors were in the software development field, which could make them more sympathetic to the killer, who was in that line of work. One was a white male & one an Asian woman, from what I remember hearing this afternoon.

      I share a birthday with John Lennon and Bo Obama.

      by peacestpete on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 03:58:22 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Oxymorons (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Tortmaster, bleeding blue, Mannie, JoanMar

       Jumbo shrimp
        Deafening silence
        Dry drunk
        Forward retreat
        Irregular pattern
        Quiet riot
        Serious joke
        Sweet sorrow


     Stand Your Ground Principles

    If cats could blog, they wouldn't

    by crystal eyes on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 03:50:22 PM PST

  •  Do the FL prosecutors even care? (7+ / 0-)

    While the case presented is good enough to convict this guy, I just don't see the preparation required to make the case a slam dunk even for a racist jury. Closing arguments meandered which tells me the prosecutors didn't do enough practice runs finetuning the speech.

    I think Angela Corey is just doing this for show. Does she fucking care? I highly doubt it. She showed more passion in prosecuting the black lady who shot a warning shot in self defense.

  •  Ah, the title question. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mannie, JoanMar

    One I've tried to answer many times to nervous clients, but only with speculation. Then, there's that question's sister: "Why is the jury coming back so quickly?" I like to think that most juries are thorough and conscientious. News reports suggest that this jury has asked to view three items of evidence, so that means they aren't playing paper football back there. My guess for this one? There's a holdout or two between first and second degree murder, and the other jurors are putting on their "best case" for the holdouts.


    Rand Paul is to civil liberties as the Disney Channel is to subtle and nuanced acting. Ron Paul thinks he's a wit, but he's only half right.

    by Tortmaster on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 04:28:07 PM PST

    •  7 females , 2 blacks. (0+ / 0-)

      Zimmerman had an all female jury. People think about the angry white man. But I have met my share of the angry white Palineque females in increasing numbers lately.

      FL probably has more racist areas than GA even if they are a swing state. FL is fucked up. It is the bunghole of America.

    •  If that's the case, TM, then the murderer (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      shanikka, Tortmaster, rubyr

      walks. He himself predicted this:

      "My fear is that if I get black on my jury it will be a mistrial, as I am convinced they will be racially biased," he writes.
      From his jailhouse letters...coming soon to theater near you.

      Maya Angelou: "Without courage, we cannot practice any other virtue with consistency. We can't be kind, true, merciful, generous, or honest."

      by JoanMar on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 05:26:23 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yeah, Joan, there's always that ... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JoanMar, YaNevaNo

        ... possibility. I would think that a Jury would first determine if any affirmative defense was viable before getting to the issue of First or Second Degree Murder. That could take some time. This is total speculation on my part.

        The Jury asking for evidence that shows the last three bullets' trajectory into a SUV trying to leave seems to me a question dealing with the difference between First and Second Degree Murder and not the affirmative defense. This is also speculation on my part, but it seems more likely.

        Here's hoping. Take care, JM.  

        Rand Paul is to civil liberties as the Disney Channel is to subtle and nuanced acting. Ron Paul thinks he's a wit, but he's only half right.

        by Tortmaster on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 07:28:42 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Sad to say... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mannie, JoanMar, Tortmaster

    given the dynamics of this, what with Florida, stand your ground and a black kid with--gasp--"thumping music," I keep thinking this. "What if the holdout is holding out for a guilty verdict against the rest of the jury who have found some way to find a 'reasonable doubt?'"

    It could be one person holding out for justice, not the other way around. If that juror were to bow to pressure, he walks.

    But rationally, I have to conclude that the hang-up is on the which guilty verdict to apply.

    The jury apparently asked the judge to "see the dummy with the sticks" today. That was prosecution evidence in the form of a mannequin the showed the paths of the bullets that killed Davis.

    Despite the fact the request was denied because it wasn't actual evidence, it shows the jury was focused on a key aspect of the prosecution's case. I'd like to think that's a good thing.

  •  I would like to think Florida gave (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JoanMar, never forget 2000

    a shit about the blacks in this state but they don't.
    Angela Corey ?  Look where those two little boys and Alexander is sitting.

    We the People have to make a difference and the Change.....Just do it ! Be part of helping us build a veteran community online. United Veterans of America

    by Vetwife on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 05:37:17 PM PST

  •  He ordered pizza (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Tortmaster, JoanMar

    After returning to his motel room, and it took him 12 days to say that Jordan had a rifle. His girlfriend's testimony should be enough to convict him and I really don't understand what's taking so long either.

    Never be afraid to voice your opinion and fight for it . Corporations aren't people, they're Republicans (Rev Al Sharpton 10/7/2011) Voting is a louder voice than a bullhorn but sometimes you need that bullhorn to retain your vote.

    by Rosalie907 on Thu Feb 13, 2014 at 05:48:32 PM PST

  •  Probably the 1st degree murder charge. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    That was a real reach.  2nd degree murder seems to fit the established facts well.

  •  Michael Dunn's fiancee's facebook page (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Tortmaster, JoanMar

    She has a link to the supporters page for Dunn. And looking at her links, she is definitely condones that guy's views even if she may not entertain all of them. Thank heaven for small mercies that she is a weak woman who couldn't flat out lie on the stand about her fiancĂ© not telling her anything about a gun and thankfully she crumbled enough to tell us that he was angry the moment he drove into the lot.  His daughter has no shame and is talking about how everyone is twisting facts. I know he is her dad, but damn, at least show quiet support. Don't act like some victim. have the decency to apologize to the victim's family.

  •  This lady Anahita whatever on CNN HLN is idiotic (0+ / 0-)

    Stupid airhead is saying race has no bearing in this case or on the jury. She tried cases? Someone take away her law license.

  •  I seriousy fear that there is (0+ / 0-)

    a holdout.  What else can it be.  The sound of that pin dropping, came from the black community

  •  First degree murder requires (0+ / 0-)

    premeditation; that is some planning. That doesn't seem the case here. Second degree should hold.

    The trouble is how this stand your ground defense has been altered from its historic role. There had been a "reasonable man" standard which meant you had to ask "would a reasonable man faced with these circumstances" done this thing.

    Florida lets in "I thought I saw"  which muddies the waters because would you look to a reasonable man seeing a gun or just the underlying situation.

    Of course the situation is racial. Either he thought all black kids have guns AND are willing to shoot someone who yells at them or he thought he could shoot Black kids and get away with it.

    I won't ever go to Florida again.  This is insanity.

    I'm asking you to believe. Not in my ability to bring about real change in Washington ... *I'm asking you to believe in yours.* Barack Obama

    by samddobermann on Fri Feb 14, 2014 at 02:43:26 AM PST

    •  The second wave of bullets qualify as first degree (0+ / 0-)

      On CNN, someone was saying that premeditated can be interpreted as spur of the moment right before the act. It does not have to planned before you come to the area. But if you intend on killing just because you felt disrespected, and you have total contempt for the value of human life of you rvictims, then first degree ison the table. Regardless, while one can say it will be very tough to get him on first degree on the first 3 bullets, there can be a case for the second wave of bullets when no bullets were fired back and they were clearly retreating and there is no way he could have reasonably been sure he saw a gun.

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