Skip to main content

Cover of
Hillary Clinton in the News: Gender and Authenticity in American Politics
By Shawn J. Parry-Giles
University of Illinois Press
Paperback, 288 pages
February 15, 2014
$27.00
Hillary Clinton, through her time in the political spotlight, has shown a tremendous amount of political agency, which routinely attracted heightened levels of animosity from political opponents, the news media, disapproving political watchers, and American voters. The “instability” of Hillary Clinton’s “television image,” Mary Ellen Brown maintains, was due to her “refusal to be silenced,” helping to ramp up the intrigue and contempt directed toward her political choices and messages.
She won't stand by her man, she won't bake cookies. She's a man-hating feminist.

She stands by her man, she shares a cookie recipe. She's a phony.

She's cold, aggressive, calculating. She's an opportunist.

Oh, wait. She's being emotional, warm and charming. She's a poseur.

Etc.

Welcome to the past—and most assuredly the near future—of the seesaw media framing of one Hillary Rodham Clinton, a framing in which no matter what she does or what she says, some talking head will spin it as either brutally and typically ambitious or patently pandering.

Shawn J. Parry-Giles, a professor of communication and director of the Center for Political Communication and Civic Leadership at the University of Maryland, has compiled decades of television news coverage of Clinton, from her first appearance on the national scene as a presidential candidate's wife through her tenure as Secretary of State.

Let's just put it out there—it's not a pretty picture, as you will see beneath the fold.

The baseline news frames that developed out of Clinton’s 1992 coverage as a campaign surrogate for her husband helped authenticate Clinton as a politically outspoken and out-front feminist who violated the traditions of authentic womanhood. Future coverage often returned to these baseline frames as a means of imagery juxtaposition and authenticity evaluation as Clinton’s national biography unfolded in the media spotlight.
Yes, Parry-Giles is a professor and uses jargon throughout (one of the drawbacks of this academic book for a layperson to read), but the evidence she compiles is damning and hard to interpret any other way: the media, for several decades, has had a Hillary Clinton problem.

Beginning with the famous January 1992 60 Minutes interview in which the Clintons discussed the Gennifer Flowers allegations, Parry-Giles says, the paradigm was set. Here's a reminder, for those of you who want to relive the moments:

The key phrase that the media seized upon and replayed in different contexts for decades was this:
Hillary Clinton: You know, I'm not sitting here—some little woman standing by my man like Tammy Wynette. I'm sitting here because I love him, and I respect him, and I honor what he's been through and what we've been through together. And you know, if that's not enough for people, then heck, don't vote for him.
Two months later, in a Nightline interview, she uttered an equally vivid proclamation about her view of herself and her role in her family:
HILLARY CLINTON: I suppose I could have stayed home and baked cookies and had teas, but what I decided to do was to fulfill my profession which I entered before my husband was in public life.
These two quotes are the foundation of what Parry-Giles calls the "baseline frame" of Hillary Clinton. Not traditional. Dedicated to career. No little woman standing by her man. In other words, a feminist.

From this frame, all actions, statements, facial expressions, career moves, clothes, hairstyles would be evaluated. When she was being plainspoken and unabashed—often interpreted by the press as typically cold, calculating and man-hating as a feminist—she was being authentic. If she declined to speak, softened her tone, chose "female" issues to address—the plight of women or children, for example—the media said she was either phony and/or politically calculating.

Nevermind that long before she hit the national scene, she'd been deeply involved in issues concerning women and children. Nevermind that she actually had a vibrant career that she was in a real sense sacrificing for the national political ambitions of her husband. Nevermind that she was, after all, a mother—not someone completely unfamiliar with the challenges of day-to-day child-rearing.

Interestingly enough, instances in which she was labeled "inauthentic" by the media (meaning she did not provide the scripted cold-hearted feminist stereotype reaction) led to speculation: Had the campaign silenced her? Had her husband dressed her down? Was she choosing the "softened" tone for politically expedient reasons of her own, with an eye on furthering her own career ambitions? Even as First Lady, there were endless talking heads insisting she was being "disciplined" by the president's team whenever she passed a few days out of the public eye. Thus sayeth the media, and thus America accepted the truth to be.

Much of this pundit chatter, unmoored from reality, was based on insisting on clinging to that simplistic, twisted baseline frame and its unspoken brutally ridiculous stereotype: feminists are cold, hard, ambitious charlatans who despise stay-at-home moms, men, children and even their fellow feminists.

When the stereotype or background didn't work for the narrative, Parry-Giles shows, it would be tweaked by the punditocracy. Often this mean "recontextualizing" video from a different event and running it for a current one. For example, when Whitewater heated up, TV news ran old unrelated, footage of Hillary Clinton testifying before Congress ... during her leadership of her husband's health care initiative. This footage implied she was in very serious trouble on this very serious matter, grilled by legislators.

Similarly, during the Lewinsky crisis, video of the First Couple—somber-faced, separated physically by a couple of feet, looking down at the ground, walking across a lawn—was run repeatedly to show the sadness and distance between the despairing duo. Too bad the video was old and unrelated to their personal crisis—and was culled from their attendance at an official memorial service, a setting in which such demeanor is, of course, entirely appropriate.

Games were played too when Hillary Clinton would travel the world as First Lady as an unofficial ambassador on women's and children's issues. Anchors (usually male) would talk over video of her speeches, paraphrasing what she said instead of letting listeners hear her say it. This backfired in a pretty spectacular way when she visited China for the Fourth World Conference on Women, where she made a very forceful statement that women's rights were the same as human rights. Appalled journalists (who just days before were criticizing Clinton for remaining silent about human rights at the forum), declared that she had brought a crisis upon the presidency by such a forceful and unexpected statement. Except … remember all those heads talking blah blah blah over the varied footage of Clinton in other countries? Yeah, funny thing: She'd been delivering the same message for years pretty much everywhere she visited. Sometimes it actually helps to listen to the content of what a woman says and not assume you know more than she does about what she's trying to say.

The author lays out all these examples—and many, many more throughout Clinton's long career—in painstaking detail, with rich documentation and analysis. Make no mistake, this is an academic book written by an academic and published by an academic press. The book's careful, sometimes ponderous prose, however, succeeds at what it sets out to do: to document and analyze thousands of television appearances and shallow interpretations of a complex woman.

What the reader comes away with is a trove of evidence pointing to what many have suspected all along: With the American media, no matter what she does, Hillary Clinton just can't win.

Or can she?

EMAIL TO A FRIEND X
Your Email has been sent.
You must add at least one tag to this diary before publishing it.

Add keywords that describe this diary. Separate multiple keywords with commas.
Tagging tips - Search For Tags - Browse For Tags

?

More Tagging tips:

A tag is a way to search for this diary. If someone is searching for "Barack Obama," is this a diary they'd be trying to find?

Use a person's full name, without any title. Senator Obama may become President Obama, and Michelle Obama might run for office.

If your diary covers an election or elected official, use election tags, which are generally the state abbreviation followed by the office. CA-01 is the first district House seat. CA-Sen covers both senate races. NY-GOV covers the New York governor's race.

Tags do not compound: that is, "education reform" is a completely different tag from "education". A tag like "reform" alone is probably not meaningful.

Consider if one or more of these tags fits your diary: Civil Rights, Community, Congress, Culture, Economy, Education, Elections, Energy, Environment, Health Care, International, Labor, Law, Media, Meta, National Security, Science, Transportation, or White House. If your diary is specific to a state, consider adding the state (California, Texas, etc). Keep in mind, though, that there are many wonderful and important diaries that don't fit in any of these tags. Don't worry if yours doesn't.

You can add a private note to this diary when hotlisting it:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from your hotlist?
Are you sure you want to remove your recommendation? You can only recommend a diary once, so you will not be able to re-recommend it afterwards.
Rescue this diary, and add a note:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from Rescue?
Choose where to republish this diary. The diary will be added to the queue for that group. Publish it from the queue to make it appear.

You must be a member of a group to use this feature.

Add a quick update to your diary without changing the diary itself:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary?
(The diary will be removed from the site and returned to your drafts for further editing.)
(The diary will be removed.)
Are you sure you want to save these changes to the published diary?

Comment Preferences

  •  Do I contradict myself? (46+ / 0-)

    Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes.

    Politics is like driving. To go backward put it in R. To go forward put it in D.
    DEMAND CREATES JOBS!!!
    Drop by The Grieving Room on Monday nights to talk about grief.

    by TrueBlueMajority on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 08:37:45 AM PST

  •  Our individuality (10+ / 0-)

    tops any of the circumscribed patterns society tries to label us with.

    Hillary has done an admirable job of proving this to some of the numb-numbs in the media.

    •  Hillary Clinton (7+ / 0-)

      is the most qualified person to run for president, other than George H.W. Bush, in 40 years, period.  However, I have two big concerns:

      1.  Regardless of whose fault it is, I fear her candidacy (and it has already happened) would result in a non-stop discussion about the Clinton "scandals" during a presidential race, and really remind voters that she is more about the past, rather than the future, and presidential races that are won are about the future.

      The good news is She is tough - and that is one of the things I admire her for, and wish Obama had more od that in his personality.  

      2. Hillary Clinton is certainly from a more moderate part of the Democratic Party; remember Al From and the Democratic Leadership Conference?  And maybe for Bill Clinton running for president in 1992, that was a good place for a Democratic Part's nominee to be in 1992.  But the party is not there anymore and neither is the electorate.  It's us versus them with a few swing voters in between.  So if Clinton is going to run as more of a moderate on issues in a Democratic Party, she could have some problems.  Does she have the ability to run a fall campaign in 2016 that excite Democratic base voters and turn them out?  And if we do, are we then all disapointed because she ends up governing as a moderate?  

      So, in the meantime, I am going to sit back and watch, and see if some other good progressives understand that there is some room to run in primaries and caucuses, and see who surfaces as a potential threat - and someone will.  But even if they do not beat Clinton ultimately, hopefully they can pin her down on issues so she can't govern as a DINO.

      "The quote on the Statue of Liberty doesn't say 'give me your english-speaking only, Christian-believing, heterosexual masses'

      by unapologeticliberal777 on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 09:32:05 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'm always disappointed that left candidates act (4+ / 0-)

        as "moderate" (conservative) incumbents.  That's corporate America for ya.

        Hard to have a government when one-third of your representatives are insane and the other two-thirds have been sold to the highest bidder.

        by Rikon Snow on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 09:40:10 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Politicians are products of their time. (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Rikon Snow, revsue, redwagon, indie17

        Both Clintons, Kerry, Obama, et. al made their bones during the nadir of progressive power. Like it or not, Traditional America rejected the New Deal Coalition if it came at the cost of letting the Rainbow Coalition to the table. So Democrats were forced to lick the corporate bootheel and engage in 'well, I'm not saying that I support gay marriage/affirmative action/flag burning BUT' groveling lest the Nixon-Reaganist alliance completely obliterated their gains.

        Of course, the problem is that if you've endorsed a tactic for long enough it becomes a part of your identity. There's no Inner Party immune to the effects of propaganda and prolefeed.

        The DLC/New Democrats deserve our understanding and appreciation, not our contempt. Nowadays they're in the way, but back then they were the last line of defense.

        •  Interesting thinking, but I don't agree. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          greenbell, wasatch, on the cusp

          Rubin & Greenspan were not a last line of defense, nor were NAFTA or the deregulation of Wall St or welfare or bankruptcy "reform".  

          Bottom line...if enable Wall St's expansion, you're not a progressive.  It's always been the haves vs the have-nots, and it still is.  

          Clinton did more for Wall St than either Bush, or even - arguably - Reagan.  We suffer as a direct result.  

          We should never forget this, and we should never repeat it.

          •  That's the problem with Sophie's Choice. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            indie17

            The choice was either 'enable Wall St.'s expansion, get enough money to have a fighting chance at protecting social gains' or 'fight them to the bitter end like Dukakis and Mondale and Carter, watch helplessly as the conservatives are sweeped in anyway'. Well, that or stick a knife in the back of the Rainbow Coalition and run the old playbook -- but after 12 years of conservative propaganda I don't think even that strategy would've worked. Second-guessing yourself after you've made the Devil's Deal is comforting, but it elides the reason why you made the deal in the first place.

            I mean, people snark and seethe at Clinton's presidency, remembering the innumerate sellouts and sadistic choices... but could you imagine what kind of shape the country would be in if we had another Bush Jr. or Reagan for 1992-2000?

        •  best summary ever (5+ / 0-)

          " Traditional America rejected the New Deal Coalition if it came at the cost of letting the Rainbow Coalition to the table."

  •  Hillary was the flint on which the Radical Right (11+ / 0-)

    sharpened their blades . . . where they learned how to behave without restraint.  

    Hard to have a government when one-third of your representatives are insane and the other two-thirds have been sold to the highest bidder.

    by Rikon Snow on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 08:39:23 AM PST

    •  And she hit them back, hard (24+ / 0-)

      Still does.

      Some of us like that about her. :)

      "This is a center-left country. Democrats can act that way and win. In fact, they must." -- Markos

      by cassandraX on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 09:12:27 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  David Brock got in trouble with the (7+ / 0-)

        "Movement Conservatives" when he was supposed to write a hit piece on her and it ended up to be rather fair and he ended up coming out of the closet as both a gay man and a liberal. He couldn't do it. Because it wasn't right.

        Hillary is about a year younger than my mother, who is also a career woman. Back in the 90's, it struck me as rather antedeluvian to criticize Clinton for being a feminist and career woman.

        Pope Francis: the Thumb of Christ in the eyes of the Pharisees.

        by commonmass on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 09:25:23 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  It's just about the only thing (22+ / 0-)

        I like about her.

        Otherwise she's just another "free trade agreement"-pushing, Wall Street-loving, warmongering, Walmart-directing, DLC-founding "neoliberal" Conservadem.  And that's why I don't like her.

        Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

        by corvo on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 09:27:33 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I don't like her politics either. (17+ / 0-)

          Then again, I don't much like the current President's politics, which could be described with many of the same words you used.

          I'm from the Elizabeth Warren wing of the Democratic Party.

          Pope Francis: the Thumb of Christ in the eyes of the Pharisees.

          by commonmass on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 09:35:25 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  believe me, I've described (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            commonmass, dfarrah, dclawyer06

            the current POTUS in more or less the same terms (with some variation, of course -- he's DLC in spirit if not in membership), and I have the war wounds to prove it. :-)

            Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

            by corvo on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 09:37:54 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I have also been highly critical, but also praised (10+ / 0-)

              where it was due.

              I am a socialist. When I'm on my purity high horse, even Bernie Sanders comes under scrutiny.

              But I've learned one thing: most people here are NOT social democrats.

              Pope Francis: the Thumb of Christ in the eyes of the Pharisees.

              by commonmass on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 09:40:04 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  You're right about Sanders, (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                commonmass, Citizenpower, dclawyer06

                who is barely a social democrat, and certainly no socialist in any meaningful sense of the word.  Which is okay in my book, except for the false nomenclature.  (Then too, European socialists and social democrats more or less transformed themselves into me-too corporatists during the 1980s and 1990s; there really are hardly any social democrats left anywhere, let alone socialists, with the notable exception of the fringes -- Syriza in Greece, Iceland, and some Latin American countries.  May their tribe increase).

                But right now the best thing I can say about the current POTUS is that every now and then he can be pushed to do the right thing.  But it takes a hell of a lot of pushing.

                Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

                by corvo on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 09:47:23 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  I'd love to see your praise of her (0+ / 0-)

                if this is indeed the case. You should like a progressive that loves Obama and hates Clinton, when there is no daylight between them.

                And when there is daylight, it is on health care and woman. The Clintons never threw women under the bus.

                Please, prove me wrong with your public comments praising her.

        •  it was her husband who co-founded the DLC (0+ / 0-)

          not her.

          ...better the occasional faults of a government that lives in a spirit of charity, than the consistent omissions of a government frozen in the ice of its own indifference. -FDR, 1936

          by James Allen on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 10:01:52 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  soooo . . . (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            dclawyer06

            was she ever a member? did she ever have a more-than-mere-membership role? from when to when?

            Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

            by corvo on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 12:14:44 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  "Mrs. Clinton, have you or have you not ever (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Radiowalla, Scandalous One, murrayewv

              been a member of the DLC?".  

              The GOP's only hope for 2016 is that Democrats tear each other apart like 1968, 1980, and 2000.

              Don't play into the GOP's hands.  Let's give Hillary a chance to move to the left before condemning her candidacy.  

              Remember that Elizabeth Warren was a Republican most of her of life; does anybody here doubt that Warren's transformation to a liberal stalwart is insincere?

              You are entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts. - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

              by Sam I Am on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 01:06:37 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  The kind of pragmatic talk that I love (0+ / 0-)

                You are a gem in these parts. Thank you.

              •  Was she really? (0+ / 0-)

                I never knew that Elizabeth Warren was once a Republican. How can any rational person be a Republican?

                "Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

                by Diana in NoVa on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 07:43:13 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Yes. (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Diana in NoVa

                  Elizabeth Warren was a Republican (a Rockefeller Republican - socially-progressive/moderate and economically centrist/conservative) until her mid-40s and became a Democrat around 1995.

                  Hillary Clinton was a Rockefeller Republican until her final year of college and had become enough of a Democrat by 1972 (age 25) that she campaigned for George McGovern in Texas, and in fact left the GOP in reaction to Nixon's Southern Strategy in 1968, at age 21.

                  To the extent that both were once Republicans and saw the light, Hillary saw it at a much, much younger age. One thing that's remained consistent about Hillary - whatever change she's advocating for (and it's usually a positive change she seeks, whether it's making Wal-Mart more environmentally friendly, aiding Arkansas school-reform efforts or attempting to pass universal healthcare through Congress), she will always seek it within the system. That could be a problem if, as I fear, the current system is too corrupt and broken to fix.

                  "Violence never requires translation, but it often causes deafness." - Bareesh the Hutt.

                  by Australian2 on Mon Feb 17, 2014 at 03:55:05 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Thank you, Australian2 (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Australian2

                    Are you an Aussie living in the USA or an American transplanted to one of my favorite countries in this world? You seem very well informed.

                    "Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

                    by Diana in NoVa on Mon Feb 17, 2014 at 06:11:19 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  An Australian. (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Diana in NoVa

                      I spend a lot of time reading about stuff. My perspective can be academic, without the grasp of local details that someone who lives there would have, but I like to think it's occasionally helpful.

                      "Violence never requires translation, but it often causes deafness." - Bareesh the Hutt.

                      by Australian2 on Mon Feb 17, 2014 at 08:50:10 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  I have always liked your comments (0+ / 0-)

                        and look forward to reading them. I have relatives in Melbourne but my favorite city is Sydney!  Got a friend there. Adored Cairns and Port Douglas and Adelaide was fun, with all the olive groves and wineries.

                        Have yet to visit Perth and Tasmania, but we did get to the Blue Mountains on one trip. We also visited a cousin who lives outside Brisbie. He took us on a tour of a mangrove swamp, the memory of which still gives me the occasional nightmare.

                        Perhaps you'll do a diary one day! That will be an enjoyable read. :)

                        "Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

                        by Diana in NoVa on Mon Feb 17, 2014 at 10:33:33 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

              •  Ah, but we know she was a leading member (0+ / 0-)

                for serveral years.  

                Let's give Hillary a chance to move to the left
                No, let's see her do something leftist.  Oh wait, she's had that opportunity, and . . . crickets.

                Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

                by corvo on Mon Feb 17, 2014 at 11:46:52 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

        •  A few things. (8+ / 0-)

          First, she voted against CAFTA in 2006 specifically on grounds of concern for workers (and in opposition to Bill, who supported CAFTA), and that was the only FTA that I recall coming to a vote during her time in the Senate. She wasn't particularly enthusiastic about NAFTA either, as I recall.

          Second, she didn't exactly push the Iraq/Afghanistan wars. That doesn't make her vote for Iraq any less of a mistake (and she'd win a lot of points simply by admitting that it was one), but she wasn't exactly "mongering" (selling) the war. She was a very junior Senator, from the State hit hardest by 9/11.

          Third, while her actions at Wal-Mart weren't particularly union-friendly, she also didn't join in the attacks on them. Also, she did achieve what she could - as one lone, junior board-member of fifteen - for progressive causes, particularly on the environmental side.

          Fourth, I wasn't aware that she was responsible for Bill's actions.

          Fifth, she was the first First Lady to march in an LGBT pride parade (2000, NYC), she publicly attacked the Chinese Government over their lack of womens' rights (on their own soil, no less!), her book (It Takes A Village) described free-market capitalism as the most radically-disruptive force in a generation, is moderately pro-gun control and her proposed solution to the subprime crisis was a moratorium on foreclosures.

          Please explain to me, again, how she's a "conservadem". And this time, try not to strawman her too outrageously. She's not as progressive as Elizabeth Warren, perhaps - but she's not "conservative", either.

          There's a reason that virtually every conservative group out there hated her - and it's not because she's one of them.

          "Violence never requires translation, but it often causes deafness." - Bareesh the Hutt.

          by Australian2 on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 11:24:30 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  oh, this is easy. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            dclawyer06

            2006.  That was just two years before 2008, wasn't it?

            Forget Iraq/Afghanistan; how about Libya?

            She's not responsible for her husband's actions . . . and yet when she supported them (as she did NAFTA), she supported them.

            I'm really much beyond caring what politicians "write" (or, usually, have ghostwritten) into their books.  

            Otherwise, what part of her support of Wall Street do you not understand?

            Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

            by corvo on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 12:13:38 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Ah, a purist's perspective. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Scandalous One

              If she did something good, then it was clearly just an attempt to bamboozle people to set up a political campaign. If she did something bad, then it's clearly all on her own head. And if her husband did something bad, it's also clearly all on her head.

              (By the way, she was at best unenthusiastic about NAFTA - her initial instinct was to oppose it, and such support as she eventually offered was given out of a desire not to rock Bill's boat. It's more or less required of a First Lady that she doesn't sabotage the President's agenda, after all.)

              And, of course, she nebulously supports "Wall Street". No specifics, of course - I take it that you believe none are needed. Don't bother pointing to her recent speech - if you don't care what she wrote in a book, you can hardly care what she said to a closed-room audience. Or is that different because it validates your negative view of her?

              People like you are, in large degree, the subject of the book the diary is written about - no matter what Hillary Clinton does or does not do, or her reasons for choosing as she does, you immediately assume the worst, twisting the facts as needed to justify it. Basically, when it comes to people like you, Clinton can't win.

              "Violence never requires translation, but it often causes deafness." - Bareesh the Hutt.

              by Australian2 on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 12:52:27 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  well (0+ / 0-)

                Do you want him to supply specifics?

                The internet is crazy. It is like people arguing about what kind of cheese to throw at a portrait, in order to destroy it completely

                by GideonAB on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 01:10:47 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  I don't think there's a point. (0+ / 0-)

                  He has, after all, already flat-out lied about HRC's "support" of NAFTA (she opposed it on both political and policymaking grounds, one of which was specifically the negative effect she feared it would have on US jobs), and I have neither the time nor the inclination to debunk more lies at this stage.

                  "Violence never requires translation, but it often causes deafness." - Bareesh the Hutt.

                  by Australian2 on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 08:24:19 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

          •  Junior Senator? Rather as connected as anyone (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            on the cusp, askew

            with Congress, intelligence, executive branch, foreign heads of government to have found out anything she needed to know about whether there were WMD in Iraq.

            She didn't want to know.  Her vote was entirely expedient in support of a war that killed tens of thousands needlessly and she doesn't even have the grace to admit it.

            The last thing I want is a President who will double down with the lives of our armed forces when she feels political pressure or when she doesn't want to admit she made a mistake.  

        •  Been having this fight (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          on the cusp, corvo, dclawyer06

          down-diary. Wee-hoo!

          What I really object to is being taken for a fool, as if, after years of being trained by the Democratic party and its allies to work on and run campaigns, I can't recognize the roll-out of a campaign narrative, and see at whose cost it's being deployed.

          I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

          by SouthernLiberalinMD on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 11:29:28 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  And if the media had called them on it then (0+ / 0-)

      there would have been no Swift Boat, or any of this other bullshit.

  •  I just watched that interview for the first time (6+ / 0-)

    in a very, very long time. I couldn't take my eyes off the screen. Just riveting.

  •  Having lived through it the first time, the (17+ / 0-)

    thought of having to have this argument for two more presidential terms makes me want to stick a fork in my forehead.

  •  A cut of the same cloth.... (12+ / 0-)
    the "baseline frame" of Hillary Clinton. Not traditional. Dedicated to career. No little woman standing by her man. In other words, a feminist.
     feminists are cold, hard, ambitious charlatans who despise stay-at-home moms, men, children and even their fellow feminists.
    brings to mind arguments from another era
    Serious concern about the impact of women getting the vote was quite widespread throughout the duration of the campaign.   This concern had complex roots bound up with Victorian views about women’s position in society.   On the one hand women were considered too precious and innocent to become embroiled in public life, on the other they were thought too irrational and emotional to make an intelligent contribution.   Whatever their abilities, their place was thought to be in the home.  Marij Van Helmond , Votes for Women: the events on Merseyside (1992)
             
    - “Women and men have ‘separate spheres’.”

    - “Most women do not want the vote.”

    - “Women’s role is in local affairs.”

    - “Women are already represented by their husbands.”

    - “It is dangerous to change a system that works.”

    - “Women do not fight to defend their country.”

    Colin Shephard and Rosemary Rees, British Society in Change 1906-1918 ( 2002

    If cats could blog, they wouldn't

    by crystal eyes on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 08:45:51 AM PST

  •  Thank you (35+ / 0-)

    As a woman of Hillary's age ( I am less than a year older), I totally identify with how Hillary's has been treated by the media, some portion of the public.

    As a feminist, I understand the power (both positive and negative) of that word.

    As a woman who came of age at a time when women were deemed appendages of their husband, I cringe when I hear the press (including the so called liberal pundits) consistently using "the Clintons" when referring to how Hillary might be if elected president.

    It drives me up a wall that even today, even the young pundits cannot see a woman as separate from "her man".  If Bill thinks this way, then Hillary must also believe that way, as if no woman dare not think differently than her husband.

    Yes, Hillary did have to give in and play the role of the woman giving up her choice to just be Hillary Rodham; being silent on issues with which she disagreed with Bill.
    Maybe she should not have done so but after 8 years of Reagan, 4 years of Bush I dems were begging the Clintons to win.   Centrist Bill was the best chance we had of getting back the presidency in a country where the growing power of the corporatists was so evident.  
    While the women's movement had started well over a decade before, if we are honest, it was a slow growth movement when it came to policy.  Still is. Just look at the disparity in representation STILL.

    The mostly white male media still has its own issues with women, with people of color.  We got Barack and that was good.  We, women, were not surprised that a man of color could get elected before a woman.  We know history.  We, women, are not surprised by the sexism in the media.  But we, women, especially women of Hillary's age, are tired of waiting, tired of the sexism that allows ageism to blend with sexism (it is so obvious, the same folks concerned about Hillary's age, had no problem with Regan's age, McCain's age and have no problem with Biden's age).    

    The media, including some young women and young men are still willing to play "the Clintons" game as if Hillary is not her own person.  

    Thanks for the diary.  Hope this wakes some people up.

    “We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both.” Louis D. Brandeis

    by Jjc2006 on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 08:47:10 AM PST

    •  I agree with you, however. . . (13+ / 0-)

      Obama and Clinton were running for president at the same time.

      If she had won the presidency, I assure you I'd be reading a post from someone who would say, "We were not surprised that a woman would get elected before a man of color."

      I know it's been debated here a lot and won't be resolved, but that was a good primary between two good candidates who each would have been historic firsts.

      I don't think it really came down to "do we want a man of color or a woman" for any but a small portion of voters.

      You may disagree, but at least acknowledge that it's not that simple.

      "You don't have to be smart to laugh at fart jokes, but you have to be stupid not to." - Louis CK

      by New Jersey Boy on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 09:31:38 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  And when Obama started pulling ahead with (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        hooper, askew, on the cusp

        the "change" meme??

        HILARIOUS: Hillary; "Hey, I'm for change, too!!"

        Errrrrrrrrr... no, you're not.

        "It is essential that there should be organization of Labor. Capital organizes & therefore Labor must organize" Theodore Roosevelt

        by Superpole on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 10:04:25 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  But it's disingenuous and, worse, naive (5+ / 0-)

          to pitch a slogan like that. All it ever was was just a word and not even a very good word. George Bush and Ronald Reagan brought change. Bad change. So just saying "change" is BS.I never liked the term. If I had been advising Hillary, I would have had her go straight at that slogan. Change has no particular quality. It can be good or bad. And the one thing that DC is almost impervious to is change.

          Voting is the means by which the public is distracted from the realities of power and its exercise.

          by Anne Elk on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 11:00:17 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  You're Too Intelligent for this now (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            on the cusp

            schoolyard sort of game.

            we saw fairly early on the "change" Obama was talking/campaigning about was simply a new front man; rearranging of the deck chairs.

            and that's what HRC will be. it's just a matter of how you sell yourself and if the people are going to be dumb enough to buy it one more time.

            "It is essential that there should be organization of Labor. Capital organizes & therefore Labor must organize" Theodore Roosevelt

            by Superpole on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 12:28:54 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  no not simple but lord was I shocked (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        atana, redwagon

        when I first heard 'bros before hos'

      •  The reason women were not surprised (0+ / 0-)

        was that it is an, familiar old pattern: men of color got the vote before women did.

        •  And you think the 2008 primary was decided (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          on the cusp, poco

          in favor of the man of color rather than the woman for the same reasons as the history of the right to vote, or it is just an interesting parallel?

          "You don't have to be smart to laugh at fart jokes, but you have to be stupid not to." - Louis CK

          by New Jersey Boy on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 11:54:32 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Men of color got the *theoretical* right to vote (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          on the cusp, Ana Thema

          before women, but women got the practical right to vote before men or women of color did.

          This is a very tired meme, folks. Racism and sexism are still potent toxins in our social and political environments. When Obama was in the process of dethroning Hillary from her presumptive position in '08, there were more than a few of her supporters whose racism came to the fore  (remember Ferraro?).  And I'm sure there were Dems in that primary who voted for Obama for sexist reasons.

          I will be fighting against Hillary's candidacy because she's a neoliberal corporatist. If I had understood just how much Obama would hew to that political pathology himself, I surely would not have worked like hell for his election, expecting him, as I did, to be a real alternative.

          "Well, yeah, the Constitution is worth it if you succeed." - Nancy Pelosi, 6/30/07 // "Succeed?" At what?

          by nailbender on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 01:32:22 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Not only that... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        redwagon, Ana Thema
        ...but that was a good primary between two good candidates who each would have been historic firsts.
        - and who were both treated as serious candidates, as opposed to head-shaking disbelief that a woman or a black man might actually become president, the conventional wisdom from a few decades back: (First time I've tried to embed pix in a comment; bear with me.)

        You can't stop progress (or is that "profit"?)

        by Miscweant on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 10:53:12 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  I was in line to vote in the Dem primary in 2008 & (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Elizabeth 44, OIL GUY, on the cusp

        still hadn't decided whether to vote for Obama or Clinton. Every other election (and there had been lots of them) I chose my candidate much earlier.  

        My daughter was voting for Obama and urged me to do likewise.  In line I thought about Bill's "Third Way" and, supposing that might be Hilary's approach also, I voted for Obama--hoping he would lean more left.

        President Obama has been too "Third Way" for me, but I appreciate how well he has played the very difficult hand he was dealt.

        The right of the women of this State to be secure in their persons against unreasonable searches shall not be violated by the State legislature.

        by Mayfly on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 11:12:17 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  WHAT?!?! You mean you weren't in line deciding (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Mayfly, on the cusp

          whether you were more of a racist or more of a misogynist?

          I've been led to believe that's how Democrats decided to cast their vote in the 2008 primary.

          Just kidding!

          "You don't have to be smart to laugh at fart jokes, but you have to be stupid not to." - Louis CK

          by New Jersey Boy on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 12:05:47 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Hillary will not enable the right as much (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Mayfly, Radiowalla, Ana Thema

          Nor will she ever in any situation use women's health care as a bargaining chip or symbol about her moderation.

          •  Hope you're right, redwagon. Maybe we'll have (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Ana Thema

            another candidate, but at present it looks like it will be HRC and certainly it is time for a good woman President.  I'm glad God was just kidding when He? She? told Michelle Bachman to run.

            The right of the women of this State to be secure in their persons against unreasonable searches shall not be violated by the State legislature.

            by Mayfly on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 12:31:19 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  She also couldn't have gotten healthcare reform (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            on the cusp, OIL GUY

            solved since she was an incompetent mess in the 1990s trying. She has a long history of talk. Very little history of getting anything done unlike Obama.

            President Obama at Madison Rally 9/28/2010 - "Change is not a spectator sport."

            by askew on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 12:36:57 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Did you really expect her to get healthcare passed (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Ana Thema, murrayewv

              when she was First Lady? Your comment is ridiculous. Obama could hardly get it passed as President with the Democratic Supermajorities in Congress. Then he allowed the Republicans to influence the bill heavily before they turned around and voted against it anyway.

              Since Hillary has not been President like Obama you have no idea of what she could or could not accomplish.

    •  For many years before 2008 (12+ / 0-)

      I said that this country would elect a black man before it elected a woman of any color.

      In 2008 I was ambivalent and liked both Dem candidates, either would have been okay with me.  This time I will work tirelessly for Hillary, because I think the time has come at last.  And because whoever the GOP throws up (in all possible meanings of that phrase) will be a disaster.

  •  OMG. The "from the web" section (10+ / 0-)

    just below your diary has a photo of Hillary with this caption:

    20 Celebrities Who Shockingly Used To Be Hot
    You'd think having been a Senator and Secretary of State would take a person out of the "celebrity" category.
  •  Sounds like an important book, thanks. (5+ / 0-)

    I'm well-attuned to ways accomplished women are silenced, when they do other than conform to gender-role stereotypes. I respect HRC's gifts as a policy-maker--I know she's gotten a lot done in Congress. A feminist, I assiduously police my own reactions to HRC, constantly asking, "Would I be demanding that of a man in her exact position?"

    And I know I still have very mixed feelings about HRC. I believe those mixed feelings are well-taken, and I won't lightly be talked out of them.

    But thanks to the author of this book for starting this discussion. And thanks to the diarist for the review.

    It's here they got the range/ and the machinery for change/ and it's here they got the spiritual thirst. --Leonard Cohen

    by karmsy on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 08:50:28 AM PST

  •  I've had problems with HRC (24+ / 0-)

    over the years on various issues but she certainly has had to put up with an inordinate amount of horseshit.

    •  I agree. She has been tagged by the media (9+ / 0-)

      and by many others as an "uppity woman", as if somehow she has no right to a career. That's disgusting.

      I don't see eye-to-eye with her politically all the time, but she doesn't deserve the treatment she's received.

      Pope Francis: the Thumb of Christ in the eyes of the Pharisees.

      by commonmass on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 09:08:46 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Is there any politician (13+ / 0-)

        any one of us can agree with on 100% of the policies, 100% of the time???  

        For me, the closest is Bernie Sanders and I am guessing at some point in time I might disagree with him on something.  As it is, I have no illusion that someone who proudly describes himself a "social democrat", registers "independent" and does not run from the "socialist" moniker would ever have a chance of winning a national election.

        From the time Hillary and I (being within a year of each other in age) came of age, we were inundated with a "fear of communism"; a brainwashing (attempt) at teaching us that Christianity was the only way to be (and in my case catholic).  We grew up hiding under desks, duck and cover, to shield us from the horrid bombs those atheistic commies were pointing at us.  The fact that many of us, in college and shortly after college, were able to grow, change, learn, open our minds, speaks volumes.

        I really think Hillary is much smarter, much more liberal on many issues, than many here at daily kos get.  Of course here in daily kos, there are many who claim to be progressive/liberal and all that and are silent when it comes to public education, labor issues and many more.

        Hillary is not perfect but she is hardly the right wing apologists some here would believe.  To this day, I say she would be less likely to give the benefit of the doubt to the right that Obama has given.  Hillary learned some hard lessons in 90s.  

        Anyway, my point is this.  Hillary is electable.  That matters in a country with a media owned by the corporations.

        “We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both.” Louis D. Brandeis

        by Jjc2006 on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 09:45:42 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Hillary is just about my mother's age. (8+ / 0-)

          I am 45 in April, and my mother just turned 69. My mother is infinitely more liberal than Hillary Clinton and her parents were Republicans. (My dad's parents were Democrats).

          I was raised with the values which dictate that one changes with the times, meaning in the progressive direction. I'll believe it when I see it when I see her run as a real Democrat. But I'd still vote for her to prevent the GOP from taking the White House.

          Pope Francis: the Thumb of Christ in the eyes of the Pharisees.

          by commonmass on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 09:51:48 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I am way more liberal (15+ / 0-)

            than Hillary also.  And I am way, way, way, way more liberal than Obama.  

            You missed my point.  It's about being electable NATIONALLY.  I am in the Northeast now but I spent several decades living in the southwest.  I worked there to get dems elected and I was so far to the left of those I worked for.  WHY??  Cause in the southwest, in the west, in so called purple CO, centrist dems are considered lefties.  Both senators from CO, Udall and Bennett are hardly liberal on many issues.  

            Hillary's public persona has to be somewhat centrist, center left.  We are living in a country where most republicans think Obama is a socialist.  How ridiculous is that?  Obama has been with the corporations on ed reform; his admin has deported more people than any; and while I am glad he got the ACA passed, it is hardly a liberal program.

            So I am not sure what your point is.  Do you honestly believe anyone as liberal as your mother or me, could actually get elected???  Sure E. Warren got elected in the MOST LIBERAL STATE in the union and even that was not that easy.   MA was willing to have M. Romney as a governor so Warren's victory was no easy deal.    
            States once known for their strong support of labor, WI, MI, PA now have three of the most conservative governors in the country.  And while PA will probably take down Corbett, Snyder is ahead in the polls in MI and Walker could not be recalled.

            I don't know what world you live in, but in my world, I have seen this country go really really far to the right since the election of Regan. UNIONS were duped by RR. And he successfully trashed them to a point where most young people do not support unions.   W won twice.  Seriously, a centrist like Al Gore could not beat a dufus like W?  And sadly the media LOVED the dufus.
            So in what world do the people here at Daily Kos think any actutal liberal would have a shot??
            PUBLICLY H. Clinton has to come off as centrist left....or she has no chance of getting in.  We need to hold the presidency and vote in a congress to help her.  
            Turning the ship of state around is no easy task....especially when three decades of corporations buying both the media and the congress and the state houses has made it harder and harder for the truth to get out.

            But Hillary with a strong dem Senate and an activist populist will lean left.......but without a strong congress and without activist, she and any dem president will struggle.  That's reality.

            “We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both.” Louis D. Brandeis

            by Jjc2006 on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 10:30:47 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  Now that, I can agree with. (0+ / 0-)

      I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

      by SouthernLiberalinMD on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 11:30:30 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  In 2008, the women writers at Slate poured bile (5+ / 0-)

    and venom over Hillary and up to the time I stopped reading them, not one so much as hinted why.  I took up reading male reporters because they were much more even handed.  I supported Hillary thru the primaries and voted obama in the general.

    I will never support Hillary, for anything, again.  Voted Stewart Alexander in 2012.  I vote positions, policy, and, above all, personal history.  Ami Bera is a perfect example:  ran as progressive, serves as a trojan horse DINO.  Thank god, and some luck, I didn't contribute.  You have no idea how picky I've gotten about lending support and I should thank ActBlue for that:  after sending quite a bit to support a bunch of campaign dissemblers, I've learned that talk is shamefully cheap, you are what you do.

    If you don't have a seat at the table, you're probably on the menu.

    by CarolinNJ on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 08:58:55 AM PST

  •  The media's an easy target. I get that. (10+ / 0-)

    And, of course, it bears its share of the blame concerning the perception of Hillary Clinton.

    But maybe Ms. Clinton is just kind of awful in front of a camera,  no? And maybe she's at the other end of the spectrum from her husband when it comes to innate political skills.

    I've watched Ms. Clinton for 20 years now on the national stage, and she's never gotten better.

    I hope Sen. Gillibrand runs. And I wish Jennifer Granholm had been born in the U.S.

    That said, if Ms. Clinton ends up being our nominee, I'd crawl through shards of broken glass to vote for her to prevent a Rubio or Paul or Ryan or Cruz presidency.

    Also, for what it's worth, the video I remember of the Clintons during the Lewinsky scandal was of Bill and Hillary walking on either side of their daughter and holding her hands. They both looked funereal, and it was fresh footage from the day after President Clinton admitted to the affair.

    How about I believe in the unlucky ones?

    by BenderRodriguez on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 09:00:55 AM PST

  •  Hillary Clinton remains one of the most (22+ / 0-)

    accomplished and effective women in public life to hold high office. I think Secretary of State and Senator qualify as "high office".

    She's not a progressive, but she's a solid Democrat--perhaps a bit hawkish for my taste but still.

    But I'll vote for her if she runs. I think Hillary Clinton has what it takes to be the first woman President, and it's about time we had one.

    Pope Francis: the Thumb of Christ in the eyes of the Pharisees.

    by commonmass on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 09:01:31 AM PST

    •  No thanks. (4+ / 0-)

      No more episodes of The Wall St Justice League for me.

      If I'm going to get behind a woman, I'd rather get behind this one.

      I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

      by SouthernLiberalinMD on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 09:31:03 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Another ShoutOut To Southern Lib (0+ / 0-)

        The Iraqis will not actually line up to thank you for being such an excellent purity troll. So many of them are pointlessly dead after all. But you remain SUPER PURE!

        Other people suffer and die, but PURITY FOR YOU!

        I so do not get politics that are supposed to be about progress and people that embrace misery for purity. I guess as long as the misery is for other people, right MD? Those nasty poors may pay the price for you being aloof but gosh that just makes you better than them.

        •  Huh? Dead Iraqis what? (0+ / 0-)

          I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

          by SouthernLiberalinMD on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 12:33:12 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  She's a Solid "New" Democrat (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      dfarrah, hooper, commonmass

      That is....

      "It is essential that there should be organization of Labor. Capital organizes & therefore Labor must organize" Theodore Roosevelt

      by Superpole on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 10:02:19 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  This is a new twist (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    commonmass, redwagon

    The way she's being described... AT WORST she sounds like a typical politician.  So, is this the new right wing attack plan?  Complain about politicians being duplicitous and calculating?  I admit, it's very meta.

    What's the difference between the Federal government and organized crime? One's legally sanctioned.

    by FrankenPC on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 09:04:54 AM PST

  •  Meh. (7+ / 0-)

    Judging her on such superficialities says more about the voter than it does her as a politician.  I do honestly believe she believes in women's rights and struggles.  I do honestly believe she'll be far better of social and societal issues than any Republican offered up.

    And I do honestly believe that she'll be damn weak tea on the issues that will define whether the American people languish in near poverty while the rich 'get richer', or whether the wealth disparities in the country are actually addressed and made smaller.

    If she gets elected, I hope she proves me dead wrong on that last one.

    •  She'll be worse than weak tea on the issues (9+ / 0-)

      that determine whether we sink into poverty or not. Also on the issues that determine whether we survive on this planet or not.

      It's not weak tea, it's a poisoned well.

      She's working for the rich, and in this age, unfortunately, most of them are according to one of their own, sociopaths.

      I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

      by SouthernLiberalinMD on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 09:35:41 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I was trying to be 'moderate' in my opinion. (5+ / 0-)

        Since I didn't feel any great urge to have the centrists who love her going off on a 'HRC-hater' rant.

        Unlike one of the people above, I have no intention of 'crawling through glass' for her if she's the candidate.  She'll be lucky if she gets my vote, and will get it only if I judge the opposition to have any real chance to beat her without every single last vote.

        •  I understand. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          on the cusp

          There are days when a person doesn't want to deal with the rant.

          Don't worry about the HRC-hater rant today (which in this case seems to be a "you terrible sexist, you!" rant). I've got it.
           :-) Nobody will be going after you unless you jump in and defend me.

          I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

          by SouthernLiberalinMD on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 10:40:55 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Maybe if people keep calling you sexist (0+ / 0-)

            over and over and avoer again, then you should look in a mirror?

            But I do not think you are sexist. I think you are a pathetic masturbatory purity troll who loves to see other people suffer, and uses your own claims of purity to deny them any help at all.  I am sure you are pathetic is so many domains beyond gender politics.

            •  Actually, no one ever has until today. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              on the cusp, DeadHead

              Funny ol' world, isn't it?

              I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

              by SouthernLiberalinMD on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 12:33:55 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

  •  As I read this piece (23+ / 0-)

    it is about the amazing resilience of sexism in the Media.

    Whatever you think of Hillary Clinton, I hope we can all condemn that.

    •  I certainly condemn it. n/t (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Armando, hooper, Chitown Kev, cpresley

      Pope Francis: the Thumb of Christ in the eyes of the Pharisees.

      by commonmass on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 09:18:51 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Sure, I condemn it. I've been a feminist since I (7+ / 0-)

      knew what the word meant.

      I'm just more concerned about whether we'll have enough water to support a civilization twenty years from now. And if we do, whether America is going to economically look like Haiti.

      As a feminist, I also find it pretty damned disgusting to watch feminism used as a convenient distraction.

      I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

      by SouthernLiberalinMD on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 09:44:05 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Incredible (11+ / 0-)

        "watch feminism used as a convenient distraction."

        With "condemners" like you, who needs supporters?

        Disgraceful.

        •  It's the truth. (7+ / 0-)

          We're talking about sexism so we don't have to talk about poverty or the fact that the climate is imploding around us or the fact that we now live in a country where women can get pulled over by cops and subjected to a cavity search by the side of the road for no damned reason at all. We're talking about sexism without talking about the intersection between sexism and poverty, just like we've been talking about racism for the last eight years without talking about the intersection between racism and poverty.

          Sexism--the kind of sexism that doesn't have to do with being economically fucked or abused by cops or the judicial system--is being used as a campaign talking point. It's being held out as a carrot for the people who want principles in their politics, and it's being used as a distraction so we don't face the moral issues that will determine whether we survive on this planet or not.

          I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

          by SouthernLiberalinMD on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 09:52:45 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  We are? (5+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Radiowalla, tomwatson, redwagon, OIL GUY, poco

            So, if I understand you, we can't talk about sexism because [FILL IN THE BLANK]

            I stand by my statement - DISGRACEFUL.

            •  You want to talk about sexism? (6+ / 0-)

              Let's talk about how poor women are doing in this economy. Let's talk about what it is to be a single mother. Let's talk about what it is to raise your kids in a homeless shelter while you work two jobs. Let's talk about trying to support yourself and kids on the crap wages most Americans get paid these days. Let's talk about what's going to happen to women when the TPP goes through. Let's talk about the disproportionate effect on women when Social Security cuts go through.

              Or let's talk about the impact on women when the polluted water they drink causes their babies to develop genetic defects or cancer in the womb.

              Or let's talk about how women in Spain and Japan are choosing not to have children because they see no hope in the future.

              Or, like I said earlier, we can talk about how women in Texas are being pulled over by cops for no damned reason and being subjected to cavity searches. Or how an Occupy protester is facing 7 years in prison for the crime of having a cop grab her breast.

              I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

              by SouthernLiberalinMD on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 10:18:36 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  So you only care about sexism (6+ / 0-)

                if it is discussed "the right way?"

                Sorry, you're full of it.

                •  Whose feminism? (5+ / 0-)

                  Is the question. Seems like this is feminism for rich upwardly-mobile women. More power to them in their attempts to outdo rich upwardly-mobile men, but don't ask me to appreciate it when they kick the rest of us women in the face with their crappy conservative economic policies. Or when they support policies that will destroy first, our largest Western water supply, and second, our ability to live on this planet.

                  I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

                  by SouthernLiberalinMD on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 10:31:36 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Decrying sexism (6+ / 0-)

                    should not require a special context, unless, you know, you actually don't care about sexism.

                    You've done triple backflips to avoid discussing or just saying, sexism is bad no matter the context.

                    •  Nope, no backflips. (3+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      hooper, on the cusp, dclawyer06

                      Sexism is bad. You just don't want to discuss the kinds of sexism that affect people without money. Instead, we're supposed to focus on the sexism that afflicts Hillary Clinton, and imagine her as a principled victim, when in fact the policies she supports in many cases hurt the hell out of women. Well, women, who don't have a lot of money. But "sexism" is being interestingly defined here as a very narrow set of issues that don't include economic oppression or ecological destruction and how those impact women. Badly. In many cases, disproportionately.

                      I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

                      by SouthernLiberalinMD on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 10:54:25 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  I don't? (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        redwagon

                        Of course I do.

                        But now you want to pretend that you want to.

                        Puhleeeze.

                        •  Pretend that I want to? (3+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          on the cusp, hooper, dclawyer06

                          It's 90% of what I've been talking about since this exchange began.

                          It would be nicer if Hillary wanted to talk about it. Better yet, it would be nicer if she wanted to fight for women on these issues.

                          But the real problem is that it's hard for anybody to become a viable Presidential candidate without getting in bed with the sociopaths who are running our financial sector and our energy industry. Nobody's going to take those gents' money and then fight for the rights of people who don't have much money. So, at the end of the day, Hillary's feminism is going to be a rallying cry for equal opportunity for upper-middle-class and upper-class women. And like I said, I'd be OK with that if she'd stop advocating horrible economic policies that kick the rest of the women in the country in the face.

                          You know, this exchange has done one thing:  I now think Liz Warren should run for President, if only to show what a feminism that embraces all women would look like.

                          I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

                          by SouthernLiberalinMD on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 11:07:24 AM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  HRC has a deep history with women and children (7+ / 0-)

                            And not upper-class ones. She was one of the leading advocates for S-CHIP. As First Lady, according to Wikipedia:

                            Together with Attorney General Janet Reno, Clinton helped create the Office on Violence Against Women at the Department of Justice. In 1997, she initiated and shepherded the Adoption and Safe Families Act, which she regarded as her greatest accomplishment as First Lady. In 1999, she was instrumental in the passage of the Foster Care Independence Act, which doubled federal monies for teenagers aging out of foster care As First Lady, Clinton hosted numerous White House conferences, including ones on Child Care (1997),[143] on Early Childhood Development and Learning (1997),[144] and on Children and Adolescents (2000).
                            Also (from same source):
                            • She was staff attorney for the Children's Defense Fund.
                            • She also took on cases of child abuse at Yale-New Haven Hospital and volunteered at New Haven Legal Services to provide free legal advice for the poor.
                            • She worked pro bono on child advocacy cases in Arkansas.
                            • Her stance at the UN Conference on Women was quite clear, and not at all about upper class women:
                              Even today, there are those who are trying to silence our words. But the voices of this conference and of the women at Huairou must be heard loudly and clearly:

                              It is a violation of human rights when babies are denied food, or drowned, or suffocated, or their spines broken, simply because they are born girls.

                              It is a violation of human rights when women and girls are sold into the slavery of prostitution for human greed -- and the kinds of reasons that are used to justify this practice should no longer be tolerated.

                              It is a violation of human rights when women are doused with gasoline, set on fire, and burned to death because their marriage dowries are deemed too small.

                              It is a violation of human rights when individual women are raped in their own communities and when thousands of women are subjected to rape as a tactic or prize of war.

                              It is a violation of human rights when a leading cause of death worldwide among women ages 14 to 44 is the violence they are subjected to in their own homes by their own relatives.

                              It is a violation of human rights when young girls are brutalized by the painful and degrading practice of genital mutilation.

                              It is a violation of human rights when women are denied the right to plan their own families, and that includes being forced to have abortions or being sterilized against their will.

                              If there is one message that echoes forth from this conference, let it be that human rights are women’s rights and women’s rights are human rights once and for all. Let us not forget that among those rights are the right to speak freely -- and the right to be heard.

                            Now do I, personally, have reservations about her? Yep. Mostly about her previous hawkishness and her relationship with Wall Street.

                            But about her being a feminist only concerned with upper-class professional women? Nope. Not for a moment. She has a long career of advocating for equality of women at every level of society, and as an advocate for health care and educational policies for women and children of all income levels.

                          •  You can't advocate for working-class women (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            on the cusp, dclawyer06

                            or middle-class women, AND have that kind of relationship with Wall St.

                            Unless you believe that somehow she can sweet talk Wall St into promoting policies that are good for women and children (who aren't rich?)?

                            I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

                            by SouthernLiberalinMD on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 12:55:39 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Sure you can (7+ / 0-)

                            She introduced legislation, for example, to raise the minimum wage—not exactly a favorite topic with Wall Street. She was a leading voice on S-CHIP, which if you aren't poor and don't have sick children, probably doesn't mean much to you. But to the parents of those children, it sure did.

                            Like I said, I'm leery of her Wall Street connections. But I also think it's part of our job as a movement separate from any single candidate to make such connections toxic. We need, as a progressive populist movement, to reach more and more people with the message that you simply can't put the 1 percent first anymore.

                            No one person can do that. As a movement, over time, we can.

                            I'm open to any other candidate who can win and who is more immediately and identifiably progressive than she is. So far, I don't see anyone; however, that doesn't mean one won't emerge. But if one doesn't, I hope we as a movement are prepared to push with all of whatever strength we have to influence her, to bring whatever power we have to bear.

                            And I don't want to trash her now before she even has had a chance to make her case.

                            I think though, that a lot of this discussion has strayed from the point—the very valid point—the book under review was making: Women simply face tougher scrutiny from the press on "authenticity" than men do, largely because there is such a muddled vision of what an "authentic" woman looks like as roles have changed.

                          •  I agree about the book. (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            on the cusp, dclawyer06

                            Would you like me to continue the Hillary fight in a different venue?

                            I'm sure there will be ample opportunities for doing so between now and Nov. 2016.

                            I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

                            by SouthernLiberalinMD on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 01:48:07 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I hope you can do so here... (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            SouthernLiberalinMD

                            I spend time in poor communities snd they're being crushed by Wall St. dems. Absolutely pulverized.

                            They need more advocates, not less.

                          •  Well, I just meant, not in this diary. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            dclawyer06

                            And they are being pulverized. As if Wall St itself weren't enough. They went through PG County like locusts through wheat.

                            I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

                            by SouthernLiberalinMD on Mon Feb 17, 2014 at 11:56:33 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  By the way, rec'ing because (0+ / 0-)

                            you're responding to me with facts.

                            I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

                            by SouthernLiberalinMD on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 12:56:24 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                        •  I did actually laugh at this one (0+ / 0-)

                          Although I question the wisdom of your troll-feeding, I admire your style while you do so.

                          Ah! Nothing like the purity of a hate-filled purity troll.

                  •  thanks for the link (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    SouthernLiberalinMD, hooper

                    I was all set to argue with you but see that the stakes are higher than I thought

                    •  You're welcome. :-) (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      i saw an old tree today, hooper

                      I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

                      by SouthernLiberalinMD on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 10:55:11 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  troll to stupid to see sarcasm (0+ / 0-)

                      Don't try. Seriously a woman who calls Senator Warren "Liz" is not a person with both hands on the wheel.

                      •  Actually, i saw an old tree went back and (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        on the cusp, DeadHead

                        rec'd some of my comments, so I don't think it was sarcasm.

                        Nice move, making it look like I just called her "Liz" instead of referring to her as "Liz Warren." Classic tempest-in-a-teapot nitpicking faux outrage.

                        As an aside, it's a little creepy how obsessed we are over rank and status on this board.

                        I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

                        by SouthernLiberalinMD on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 01:01:20 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                      •  Only (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        on the cusp, SouthernLiberalinMD

                        A petulant, anger-filled asshole would run around calling people stupid trolls and imply mental health issues simply because a public figure wasn't addressed to their liking.




                        Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ Garcia

                        by DeadHead on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 02:45:13 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Yeah. If I ever get a chance, I'll ask Sen. Warren (0+ / 0-)

                          if she minds being referred to as "Liz Warren" when discussed on blogs.

                          I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

                          by SouthernLiberalinMD on Mon Feb 17, 2014 at 12:52:32 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

          •  I agree. (3+ / 0-)

            The social side of issues has been way overemphasized to the detriment of life and death issues - like the economy and the earth.

            The banks have a stranglehold on the political process. Mike Whitney

            by dfarrah on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 10:19:37 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  The sad thing is, I don't mind fighting for (4+ / 0-)

              social rights. It's just that if the ecology collapses, no one will have any rights. And if the rule of law is corrupted to the point of collapse, no one but the rich will have any rights. Ditto if wealth continues to concentrate in the hands of 400 families.

              I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

              by SouthernLiberalinMD on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 10:22:44 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  As if forced birth were an economic issue! (0+ / 0-)

              What is WRONG with those stupid women who keep fighting for "social issues" like wage equity and force childbirth? My god how can they be so stupid not to see your wisdom!

              •  Fight for wage equity all you want. (0+ / 0-)

                Especially when there aren't any jobs, and what jobs are being created are low wage, and the powers that be are doing everything they can to steal workers' productivity to enrich themselves.

                Yeah, I'm losing sleep over the fact that there is a small wage gap.

                The banks have a stranglehold on the political process. Mike Whitney

                by dfarrah on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 01:21:57 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

      •  As a man, and a feminist, I agree. (4+ / 0-)

        (I learned in college that it is possible for a man to be a feminist.)

        Pope Francis: the Thumb of Christ in the eyes of the Pharisees.

        by commonmass on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 09:47:15 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I learned that in college too. :-) (4+ / 0-)

          I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

          by SouthernLiberalinMD on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 09:55:54 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Yeah, but I'm a gay man. I mean no snark by it. (5+ / 0-)

            But I really learned a lot from a couple of professors about feminism, and that was back in the 80's. As a LGBT rights activist from my teens, I get the struggle. I also get that we're all human, all the same, and these ridiculous constructs about gender, race and sexual/gender orientation are total BS.

            Pope Francis: the Thumb of Christ in the eyes of the Pharisees.

            by commonmass on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 10:02:34 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Sure thing. I didn't take it as snark. :-) (2+ / 0-)

              I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

              by SouthernLiberalinMD on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 10:05:35 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  My grandmother, who just died the other year, (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                SouthernLiberalinMD, hooper, redwagon

                was a "career woman" from the late 50's until her retirement in the 80's. She worked in tech startups and even had Federal security clearance at one point. She ran the secretarial pool. She WAS "Joan" from Mad Men.

                She was also a feminist, but a quiet one. But I'll never forget what she used to say to her "girls", the secretaries back in the dark 70's: "You don't break glass ceilings with your heels!"

                Pope Francis: the Thumb of Christ in the eyes of the Pharisees.

                by commonmass on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 10:12:16 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Awesome. (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  commonmass

                  I miss that generation, actually.

                  I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

                  by SouthernLiberalinMD on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 10:23:15 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  She was a big Hillary supporter, because (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    redwagon

                    she was born in the year that women got the national vote, and wanted to see a woman President.

                    However, she voted for Obama in the general because she thought it would be a good idea to have an African-American President.

                    In the spirit of full disclosure, our family is bi-racial by marriage on several different lines.

                    Pope Francis: the Thumb of Christ in the eyes of the Pharisees.

                    by commonmass on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 10:26:17 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  you shame them (0+ / 0-)

                    with your attacks on Hillary. They would not miss you.

                    •  Really? Tell that to my family. (3+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      DeadHead, on the cusp, poco

                      what a nasty thing to say.

                      Pope Francis: the Thumb of Christ in the eyes of the Pharisees.

                      by commonmass on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 01:34:22 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  You seem like a lovely person. (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      commonmass, on the cusp

                      Hillary is lucky to have you on her side.




                      Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ Garcia

                      by DeadHead on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 02:49:33 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  I don't know. My family and I lost my husband (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        on the cusp, DeadHead

                        and buried him a year ago yesterday, and I don't know what they would have thought it if were me instead.

                        They would not miss you.
                        What a horrible thing for someone to say. I can't imagine the hate that goes into such a comment.

                        Pope Francis: the Thumb of Christ in the eyes of the Pharisees.

                        by commonmass on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 02:54:14 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  My condolences, once again, commonmass (0+ / 0-)

                          I hope you're doing okay, all things considered. It goes without saying, these types of anniversaries SUCK.

                          And I agree, I can't fathom how a person can conjure up such a mean-spirited comment as the one above.

                          And over a person's views about a politician on a political blog, no less.

                          I'm rather taken aback by user "reddog's" other comments elsewhere in the diary, as well.

                          The kind of approach only pushes people further away.




                          Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ Garcia

                          by DeadHead on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 04:33:14 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                    •  I am going to say this one last time. (3+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      on the cusp, DeadHead, schumann
                      They would not miss you.
                      I have no idea what kind of a witch with a capital "b" would say something to that to someone here, but that was really hateful. Really, really hateful.

                      Pope Francis: the Thumb of Christ in the eyes of the Pharisees.

                      by commonmass on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 03:14:00 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

      •  A convenient distraction from what? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Armando

        That's a pretty serious charge.

        It's the Supreme Court, stupid!

        by Radiowalla on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 09:47:15 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  The same book could be written (10+ / 0-)

    about Gore and Kerry.  A media narrative was created on the millionaire pundit cocktail circuit (or in the Fox News Ailes pep talks), and video/audio clips were then selected to reenforce the narrative.

    HRC's media treatment makes a good case study, but I hope the authors were careful to point out that she is one of many examples of how the corporate media manipulate viewers.  

    "When I was an alien, cultures weren't opinions" ~ Kurt Cobain, Territorial Pissings

    by Subterranean on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 09:12:38 AM PST

    •  All one needs to do is take a walk over (8+ / 0-)

      to The Daily Howler and plug in "War on Gore" to their search.
      Bob Somerby documented the media's unrelenting, egregious war on Gore and how it contributed to the installation of the Idiot Dauphin into the White House.

      It's the Supreme Court, stupid!

      by Radiowalla on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 09:36:14 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  The same book about sexism? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      pamelabrown
      •  Sexism is the tactic (4+ / 0-)

        The media's HRC narrative is of course sexist, while the narratives for other candidates each have their own flavors.  The strategy remains the same:  construct a narrative amenable to oligarchic interests, and cull A/V clips to fit it.

        One could see the same dynamic at play with Howard Dean.  I remember reading his speeches, and then seeing what the corporate media tools chose as soundbytes, and thinking "Ahhh, so that's how they do it!".  The soundbytes were not even remotely represenative of Dean's speeches - even a 6th graden could have done a better report.  But the goal was not to faithfully represent Dean's speeches, it was to portray Dean as a loose cannon, a reckless iconoclast unfit to serve.

        "When I was an alien, cultures weren't opinions" ~ Kurt Cobain, Territorial Pissings

        by Subterranean on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 10:45:04 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  And, being corporations, they will not highlight (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          on the cusp

          the other more legitimate reasons to not want Hillary as Pres.  Because those would be the same reasons to criticize them as messengers.  

          Doing the bidding of the 1%.  Hurting the poor.  Siding with the banks.  Sacrificing the planet.  These can not be mentioned (see comment stream above) because...

  •  Who cares? Can't the Clintons just exit the stage (8+ / 0-)

    already? I am so sick of them and their melodrama.

    President Obama at Madison Rally 9/28/2010 - "Change is not a spectator sport."

    by askew on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 09:19:25 AM PST

  •  She's taking money from rich people (7+ / 0-)

    to advance their interests, she's pretty rich herself, she was a primary architect of moving the Democratic party to the right and transforming it into a party not of the people, but of the investors.

    That's all. The rest is inconsequential hooey.

    I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

    by SouthernLiberalinMD on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 09:27:47 AM PST

  •  Just wonderin'... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    commonmass, joesig, Portlaw, atana

    Is the new rule putting the last couple of decades under a microscope, crankin' up the magnification and demanding unmerciful, unforgiving and overdue accountability for every misstep?

    ... 'cause I'm kinda waiting for someone to connect the dots between PNAC, its decade-long campaign to invade Iraq, the sudden (one might say, 'miraculous') appearance of its charter members in George W's administration, that dumptruck full of lies following 9/11/01 and the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS DEAD in a fabricated invasion and occupation.

    ... or don't the HRC handwringers do war crimes?

  •  Depends on definition of bake (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    commonmass

    In my day, we creamed the flour and butter, put in whatever else we want, and then put it in the oven. This was baking.

    In the 90's, one bought cookie dough and cut it into shapes and put in the oven.  That was baking.

    More recently, one bought the cookie dough already cut on a an oven safe dish.  One put the whole thing in the oven.  That was baking

    Now you buy the cookies, they get warm on the way home, and viola you have fresh baked cookies

    This is not only snark,but also the fluid nature of how humans adapt to new realities.  If we need any evidence of why America is losing it's global competitiveness, all we have to look at is that people expect women of Hillary's intelligence to spend time baking cookies.  Not that she may not do so if she chooses, but so can Bill, but that the expectation is that this is the best use of her time.

  •  Is it too early to coin the acronym 'HDS'? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    commonmass, Chitown Kev

    Sheesh. HRC is not my first choice for a variety of reasons, but certainly not as bad as some here promote.

    While you dream of Utopia, we're here on Earth, getting things done.

    by GoGoGoEverton on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 09:38:17 AM PST

  •  HRC (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    commonmass, joesig, tb mare, hooper, askew

    Lifelong Dem, Liberal, votes every election, local, state, federal-- HRC strikes me as very cold and calculating. I totally am p-ed off about her vote for the Iraq War. Don't know whether I can support her. Now, would I vote for her over a Gobp slimeball? Of course.

    •  Errrr.. so again, there's ONLY Two choices? (0+ / 0-)

      ???

      "It is essential that there should be organization of Labor. Capital organizes & therefore Labor must organize" Theodore Roosevelt

      by Superpole on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 09:59:48 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  So far. Who else? (Besides the other corpo-Dems) (0+ / 0-)
      •  Other Choices (0+ / 0-)

        If ONLY there were other choices.  But, I choose not to waste my vote on a 3rd Party candidate right now unless and until they have something beneficial to say or add.  Rand Paul is a frightening individual, who, along with his father, would turn this nation into a smoldering, survival of the fittest Hell.  I am glad that people like Bill Maher actually put the reefer down and wised up about "libertarian" BS.  So, for now, yes, there are only two choices.  

        "This is our version of capitalism: a system of economic policies that benefit the extremely wealthy, and the rest survive as best they can."-- Chomsky

        by truthronin on Sat Feb 22, 2014 at 09:59:16 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Cold and calculating is a sexist meme (2+ / 0-)

      ...you basically fall into the frame suggested by the book.

      •  Cold and calculating (0+ / 0-)

        Dick Cheney is cold and calculating.  It is not gender related in any way.

        "This is our version of capitalism: a system of economic policies that benefit the extremely wealthy, and the rest survive as best they can."-- Chomsky

        by truthronin on Sat Feb 22, 2014 at 09:52:59 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  I opened this to see if my perception of HRC (8+ / 0-)

    might have been influenced by this media framing.

    I never particularly liked her. Maybe I was a sucker for media framing - although I haven't been on any other subject or with any other political figure.

    I've always found Daily Kos helps to translate the B.S. So, I figured this diary would help me identify the subtle reasons that I've been subliminally made to find HRC not that likable.

    It didn't.

    It's not because she's a woman or a feminist that she get's labeled "inauthentic."  She doesn't deliver herself with authenticity.

    I'm going to compare her to Bill because it's facile, but we could substitute many other politicians male or female.

    Bill seemed authentic when we knew he was lying. Hillary doesn't even seem authentic when she's telling the truth.

    And the media attacked them both quite thoroughly.

    "You don't have to be smart to laugh at fart jokes, but you have to be stupid not to." - Louis CK

    by New Jersey Boy on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 09:45:37 AM PST

  •  HRC - NOT a Progressive Leader (11+ / 0-)

    She sat on the Board of Walmart for six years.  She recently took $400,000 from Goldman Sachs.  Here is a report of what she said:

    But Clinton offered a message that the collected plutocrats found reassuring, according to accounts offered by several attendees, declaring that the banker-bashing so popular within both political parties was unproductive and indeed foolish.
    And, yes, she also voted for the Iraq war.

    Is there sexism in the attacks on her?  Absolutely, but that is not a reason to support her.

  •  OK, it REALLY smells like 2008 in here. (6+ / 0-)

    It's going to get ugly.

    Pope Francis: the Thumb of Christ in the eyes of the Pharisees.

    by commonmass on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 09:55:46 AM PST

    •  Of course it's going to get ugly (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Lying eyes, commonmass, redwagon, cpresley

      The closer we get to having a woman in the Oval Office, the more the Ugly is going to fly. And once we actually have a woman in the Oval Office, the Ugly is going to metastasize into all sorts of reactionary movements.

      Are racist rural "Preppers" prepping for invasions of blah people "zombies" from the cities as far as the Ugly can go? Just watch!

    •  Well, without a primary challenger (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      on the cusp, commonmass, Willinois

      what we're going to see is a 15-month-long bashing of progressives, liberals, and anybody who doesn't toe the party line.

      With a primary challenger, we'll get all that, with an additional focus on whatever politician is taking Hillary on. And the whole bash-fest will likely be cranked up to 11.

      I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

      by SouthernLiberalinMD on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 11:36:51 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Sometimes it does, yes, but is it really verboten (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      commonmass, askew, on the cusp

      to criticize HRC?  Seems like any objection is subject to the sexism charge.

      Hill sure is polarizing.  We don't hear anything like this about Warren, for example.  She'd be called shrill, of course, but nothing that rises to the level of the offensiveness and defensiveness that Clinton brings out.

    •  As long as Hillary supporters respond to anyone (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      on the cusp, commonmass

      who voices to criticism of Hillary with screams of sexism, it will be bad around here. Same thing happened in 2008. They could dish it out but had a complete meltdown if anyone criticized Hillary.

      President Obama at Madison Rally 9/28/2010 - "Change is not a spectator sport."

      by askew on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 12:51:42 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  I DON'T Care about the Cultural Aspects (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    hooper

    bullcrap nuancing and messaging by the hack talking bobbleheads. IRRELEVANT.

    the main question for HRC is she ANY sort of bold leader that can inspire/motivate congress to get off their dead asses?

    NO, she is not.

    if one wants to know how she will govern, simply look to conservative fence-sitter Obama. that is how she will govern.

    FAIL.

    "It is essential that there should be organization of Labor. Capital organizes & therefore Labor must organize" Theodore Roosevelt

    by Superpole on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 09:58:03 AM PST

    •  I think HRC will be (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Portlaw, hooper, redwagon, on the cusp

      much more effective that BO at getting what she wants.

      I just don't want what she wants.

      The banks have a stranglehold on the political process. Mike Whitney

      by dfarrah on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 10:27:32 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  And Just HOW is she going to be more (0+ / 0-)

        effective, I wonder?

        "It is essential that there should be organization of Labor. Capital organizes & therefore Labor must organize" Theodore Roosevelt

        by Superpole on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 12:25:14 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Can you cite any time in Hillary's past where (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        on the cusp

        she has been effective at getting something accomplished? She was a disaster in getting healthcare passed where Obama got healthcare passed. Hillary voted for the Iraq War and seemed baffled at how to end it. Obama ended it. Obama has a long history in his entire life of getting stuff accomplished. He got more done in his first term than any president since LBJ, but Hillary who did nothing in the Senate for 8 years and failed miserably trying to pass healthcare in the 1990s would have gotten more done? Really?

        President Obama at Madison Rally 9/28/2010 - "Change is not a spectator sport."

        by askew on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 12:55:16 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Well, BO has (0+ / 0-)

          continued wars and continues wars and immoral murders.

          BO passed the giveaway to insurance companies known as ACA [although some provisions are helpful].

          HRC was as sabotaged on health care as BO has been stymied, yet everyone whines, 'oh poor whittle BO, if only those nasty repubs would led him lead." Apparently, HRC gets no such concession.

          BO has been politically rolled repeatedly by the repubs.

          I just don't see HRC putting up with the crap that BO has in the name of some sort of kissy-feely attempt to be nice about the repubs.  I don't see her starting deep in red territory like BO has on numerous issues.  Even though she is as conservative as BO, if she happens to pick a progressive position, I think she will fight for it and not tell us that "I'm not a queen."

          BO has been a complete disaster economically; it is hard to tell if HRC would be better or worse.

          The banks have a stranglehold on the political process. Mike Whitney

          by dfarrah on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 01:16:18 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  So your entire argument boils down to you hating (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            poco

            Obama so you refuse to give him credit for passing healthcare reform and people were mean to Hillary so it's not fair to blame her for her epic failure at trying to pass healthcare reform.  That's pathetic.

            President Obama at Madison Rally 9/28/2010 - "Change is not a spectator sport."

            by askew on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 02:42:30 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

  •  HRC is a middle aged woman, a category of (12+ / 0-)

    person in American public life who is routinely insulted, ignored, dismissed, underestimated, and often reviled, on the left as well as on the right.  This has nothing to do with her policy positions, or even with public expectations of her role as a political spouse or Secretary of State.  The sad truth is that in our country, women who have aged beyond "hotness" are expected to have the good manners to disappear.  It's considered a sin to be female and in the public eye once you reach middle age.

    During the primary wars, here on DKos, the nauseating comments about Hillary's pantsuits and heavy legs nearly drove me away.  

    Here are two recent images that tell you everything you need to know about what people's view is of an strong older woman who refuses to hide:

    href="http://schuylerphotography.smugmug.com/... title="Photo & Video Sharing by SmugMug">Photo & Video Sharing by SmugMug

    "It ain't right, Atticus," said Jem. "No, son, it ain't right." --Harper Lee, To Kill a Mockingbird

    by SottoVoce on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 10:05:57 AM PST

    •  This is all true, SV, and it's disgusting. But (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      on the cusp, Portlaw, SottoVoce

      it's not a reason to select anyone as President.  It's a reason to get mad, but not to ignore all of the reasons we don't need another Wall St President.

      •  I'm not saying she should be our next (0+ / 0-)

        President, not at all.  I'd much rather have a more progressive President, of course.  I say that she should be judged on her policy positions and her record as Senator and Secy of State.  But it would be much easier to examine where she actually stands on issues, and what a Clinton Presidency would be like, if we weren't distracted, as the right wing is, by stupidities like her hairstyle, her clothes, her figure, and her housekeeping/man-keeping qualities.

        "It ain't right, Atticus," said Jem. "No, son, it ain't right." --Harper Lee, To Kill a Mockingbird

        by SottoVoce on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 04:24:16 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  As you put it, I'd agree. But in this case gender (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          SottoVoce

          is imo not the point.  The powers-that-rule are buying us off - for a symbol - once again.  And is she really stronger on women's issues than other Dems?

          There's no question that Hillary's allegiance has already been sold.  It wasn't just the $400,000 from Goldman Sachs, it was her similar speeches to actual pirates KKR and everyone's favorite arms dealers the Carlisle Group.

          You have nothing to fear from me.  Says Hillary, to Wall St's worst.

          Our hero.

          •  I'd agree with your characterization (0+ / 0-)

            And that kind of critique, especially of a presumptive Democratic Presidential candidate, is far more useful than the shallow nonsense I'm describing.

            "It ain't right, Atticus," said Jem. "No, son, it ain't right." --Harper Lee, To Kill a Mockingbird

            by SottoVoce on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 07:24:13 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  So we should ignore her record? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      askew, on the cusp
  •  She's a Democrat. (4+ / 0-)

    See Carter, Clinton W, Kerry, Dean, Gore, Obama....

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 10:15:01 AM PST

  •  oh yay, another round of Hillary bashing (10+ / 0-)

    Every time there's a Hillary post, just like clockwork there's an endless stream of Hillary sux/ Warren rox/ "I'm a real Democrat" self righteous bullshit.  I wouldn't blame her if she doesn't run, the moronic insults from her own party are bad enough.  

  •  She not only can win.. (8+ / 0-)

    She will win.

    (And -- as a supporter of Hillary from way back -- I am left to wonder how much of the vitriol from the left and the right, will come out this time too).

    I can dismiss the vitriol from the right, because that is expected...

    but from the left ..... ??

    "Proud to proclaim: I am a Bleeding Heart Liberal"

    by sara seattle on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 10:23:39 AM PST

  •  But if we're really going to have (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    on the cusp

    different "political agency" why not have some that really makes a difference?  

    It's not about her personality, it's about the substantive change she could bring to the world--if she only would make that commitment.  Changing minds, changing paradigms, but substantively not just by inclusion of another gender in the status quo.  

    "So listen, oh, Don't wait." Vampire Weekend.

    by Publius2008 on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 10:35:06 AM PST

  •  After reading the posts here (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Lying eyes, redwagon

    I am betting that rhe GOPers are laughing their asses of in anticipation of the left imploding over Hillary.

    Oh God -- this is pathetic.

    So get real, people -- who do you want instead.

    That can win?

    Biden, who?

    So for once get real here -- you are sounding like TeaHatters: ... I object, I object, I object.. because, because, because ... and I am going to take my votes and go home!!

    Oh good grief...

    "Proud to proclaim: I am a Bleeding Heart Liberal"

    by sara seattle on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 10:42:46 AM PST

    •  I want (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      on the cusp, tb mare, hooper

      a strong candidate, someone who will stand up to China, like in the Snowden affair.

      Does that make me a TeaHatter?

      The internet is crazy. It is like people arguing about what kind of cheese to throw at a portrait, in order to destroy it completely

      by GideonAB on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 11:16:33 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Hillary knows where I am. Where we are. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      on the cusp

      She can come by any time and try to make common cause with us.

      I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

      by SouthernLiberalinMD on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 11:37:54 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  This is exactly what Hillary supporters in 2007-08 (4+ / 0-)

      said. They tore down Obama and said only their candidate could win. Well, they were dead wrong then and they can be dead wrong now.

      She's a mediocre politician with no vision for the country and high name recognition. Another great politician with a vision for the country could easily beat her again. Plus, she is going to 69 years old in 2016. A younger candidate is going to run circles around her.

      She does have one hell of a PR team though.

      President Obama at Madison Rally 9/28/2010 - "Change is not a spectator sport."

      by askew on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 01:00:13 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  hi askew (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sara seattle, poco

        Can I ask which candidates you feel could "run circles around her" and potentially beat her in the 2016 Dem primary?

        My opinion has been if she runs, she would the nomination easily. I also think she would have the best chance to win nationally. Markos wrote a diary.

        Who else may run?  I think it is pretty safe to say Elizabeth Warren and Sherrod Brown won't. I don't know of any other strong progressive who is a likely candidate. That leaves us w/ Mark Warner, or Martin O'Malley and I don't think their politics is much different than Hillary Clinton's?  I definitely don't want an Andrew Cuomo.

        I understand people's concern about her. I also want to see the Democratic Party move back to its economic populist & working class roots and away from policy positions such as free trade, deregulation, welfare reform, and more.

        I think a sometimes overlooked point is the Clinton's were a product of the times. Bill Clinton governed as he did because he thought he had to in order to win. True, a significant part of the national party is still living in the past and things have changed. But I think whoever we nominate will govern as an establishment Democrat whatever that is at the time. I think one of our roles as progressives is to be out there advocating what policies a president should pass educating the electorate and moving public opinion. Presidents will begin to govern as progressives when what is progressive now is mainstream.

        That's already happening on some issues, but there's still a lot of work to do.

        •  Martin O'Malley, Deval Patrick would run circles (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          on the cusp

          around her. She is just completely mediocre as a politician and they are great politicians with a long list of accomplishments to run on. She has a great PR team.

          I am less interested in their politics than in their ability to get something done. Hillary's entire history is almost a blank slate of accomplishments. She served in the Senate for 8 years and got nothing done. Her SoS term was mediocre. She repaired relationships but Kerry is on-track to becoming one of our best SoS with the Iran deal, Syria admitting owning CW and letting the UN supervise the destruction of the CWs.

          Hillary just isn't a leader. I imagine her administration would be as dysfunctional as her presidential campaign and will show as few results as her 8 year Senate career did and it will be a huge waste of an opportunity.

          President Obama at Madison Rally 9/28/2010 - "Change is not a spectator sport."

          by askew on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 02:52:19 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  So again (0+ / 0-)

        who is your choice that realistically can win?

        "Proud to proclaim: I am a Bleeding Heart Liberal"

        by sara seattle on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 02:44:53 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  So what younger person (0+ / 0-)

        is going to be running circles around her??

        Does this person have a name -- or is it a figment of your imagination??

        And trust me -- I remember so well the 2007-2008 the misogyny ran so deep here then too.

        "Proud to proclaim: I am a Bleeding Heart Liberal"

        by sara seattle on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 02:49:22 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I remember the racism from the Hillary supporters (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          on the cusp

          here in 2007-2008 well is what you meant to type I am sure. And the constant mocking of Obama supporters and telling us Hillary was inevitable and to stop fighting. You were all dead wrong.  You'll be wrong again. Hillary is a mediocre politician with a great hype team. That's not enough to win unless she and her husband pressure everyone else out of primary.

          O'Malley and Patrick. I don't see Gillibrand running if Hillary does, but she could as well.

          President Obama at Madison Rally 9/28/2010 - "Change is not a spectator sport."

          by askew on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 03:22:27 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Really -- (0+ / 0-)

            well good luck with O'Malley and Patrick.

            The Republicans will love your choices.

            "Proud to proclaim: I am a Bleeding Heart Liberal"

            by sara seattle on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 03:27:33 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  tell us (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              on the cusp, askew

              what the Republicans will see in Patrick that will encourage them

              The internet is crazy. It is like people arguing about what kind of cheese to throw at a portrait, in order to destroy it completely

              by GideonAB on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 03:32:46 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  Exactly what you and other Hillary supporters (0+ / 0-)

              said in 2007-08 about Obama. We didn't fall for your scare tactics then and we won't now.

              President Obama at Madison Rally 9/28/2010 - "Change is not a spectator sport."

              by askew on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 05:02:36 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  The only reason why Obama won (0+ / 0-)

                was because most of us that were Hillary supporters voted for Obama,

                because in the end we would rather have a Democrat in the White House than a Republican.

                With many of you that have been Hillary haters for years, - I doubt you will have the same common sense.

                I invite it -- would love for you to be that magnanimous...

                "Proud to proclaim: I am a Bleeding Heart Liberal"

                by sara seattle on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 08:36:55 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

      •  I did want Hillary to win in 2008 (0+ / 0-)

        mainly because the problems I predicted we would have with Obama - are the exact problems we've had up till now.

        He has not been a strong leader - the GOP for the most part have run circles around him.

        He tried for the most part to be all things to all people -- but mostly it seems -- to try to appease the GOP - ACA should ring a bell with you there.

        I love Obama -- but I wanted Hillary.  She would have worked around the GOP.

        "Proud to proclaim: I am a Bleeding Heart Liberal"

        by sara seattle on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 03:36:51 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes, because she has such a strong history (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          on the cusp

          of getting stuff done despite the GOP. Oh, wait that isn't true. She did nothing at all in the Senate. Obama on the other hand accomplished more than any president since LBJ.

          President Obama at Madison Rally 9/28/2010 - "Change is not a spectator sport."

          by askew on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 05:04:22 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  It's ironic that the public/media demands (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    hooper, tardis10

    authenticity from politicians when they don't support those who are. What the public hates is not lies, but clumsy bad lies. We want our politicians to show real skill in ensuring that the picture quality is good and the sound syncs properly. TV has made "the public" a fake public in other words. It gives a new meaning to the phrase, "doing our part".

    Voting is the means by which the public is distracted from the realities of power and its exercise.

    by Anne Elk on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 10:54:42 AM PST

  •  Heck, not only will I vote for her, (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    atana, redwagon, sukeyna

    I will support her.   If you do not like Mrs. Clinton, it is because you are scared of the truth, that lady brings it.

  •  Somebody who said it better than me: (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    on the cusp, tb mare, tardis10
    Those of us who stand outside the circle of this society's definition of acceptable women; those of us who have been forged in the crucibles of difference; those of us who are poor, who are lesbians, who are black, who are older, know that survival is not an academic skill. It is learning how to stand alone, unpopular and sometimes reviled, and how to make common cause with those others identified as outside the structures, in order to define and seek a world where we all can flourish...what do you do with the fact that the women who clean your houses and tend your children while you attend conferences on feminist theory are, for the most part, poor and third world women?
    --Audre Lorde, "The Master's Tools Will Never Dismantle The Master's House"

    I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

    by SouthernLiberalinMD on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 11:28:10 AM PST

  •  If she was really concerned about women and (4+ / 0-)

    children, she wouldn't be a neoliberal hawk-- which negatively effects women, children and minorities.

    Obama: self-described Republican; backed up by right-wing policies

    by The Dead Man on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 11:38:40 AM PST

    •  Good, maybe when *you* say it, they'll listen. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      on the cusp, tb mare

      Here's hoping.

      I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

      by SouthernLiberalinMD on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 11:39:35 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Here, try this: (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    on the cusp

    I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

    by SouthernLiberalinMD on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 11:48:28 AM PST

  •  just can't win (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    on the cusp

    "What the reader comes away with is a trove of evidence pointing to what many have suspected all along: With the American media, no matter what she does, Hillary Clinton just can't win."

    No, what the reader should come away with is, this is a trove of 'evidence' that is filtered by a wholly owned 'media' that is owned by republicans.
    The fact is, every major media outlet is  owned by a corporation that has a republican bias.
    Mrs. Clinton has her problems from my point of view, because she is far too comfortable with wall street and the MOTU, and her neoconesque hawkishness.
    I bought that bill of goods in '08 and didn't repeat that mistake in '12.

    .....we just can't win.

  •  If we want to fight this sort of (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    on the cusp

    framing for real, we need to invest in political infrastructure. The best defense against this crap is, oddly enough, projects like this.

    If you don't want to invest in building political infrastructure, and, in this case, messaging infrastructure, these are the rewards you're going to reap. At least, these are the rewards you're going to reap post-Reagan Revolution. Once they deep-sixed integrity and professionalism in journalism and concentrated the power of the media into their own hands there was little hope of avoiding a media shitstorm if you offended any of the richest people in this country. And much like Obama, no matter how much Hillary hands to the wealthy, there's always going to be some billionaire extemists who hate her, either for partisan or sexist reasons. And it doesn't take many 1%-ers hating you before you get pilloried in the "press."

    While the Republicans were recruiting on a nationwide scale for their project of transforming the country's media and legal system, and launching more think tanks and radio shows than you can shake a stick at, as well as co-opting conservative pulpits across the nation to help with the grassroots side of the effort, the Clintons were at $500/plate luncheons with very rich people, including, disturbingly enough, the Koch brothers. And this is the result.

    I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

    by SouthernLiberalinMD on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 12:01:01 PM PST

  •  Much of the press love Clinton. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    on the cusp, askew

    This would be the same press that's crowning Clinton the inevitable nominee for the second time. That framing is very advantageous to her.
    The same press that floated articles every few months since Obama took office about how she was going to replace Biden on the ticket or challenge Obama for the nomination. The NYC and DC establishment press corps made up a core part of Clinton's base support in '07-'08. They gave her the most coverage of any candidate by far.

    The press is obsessed with her. Some of it is sexist. Some of it is fawning. So the claim that, "With the American media, no matter what she does, Hillary Clinton just can't win" seems out of touch with reality as I've seen it. Does the book acknowledge that some corners of the press enthusiastically promote Clinton on a regular basis?

    •  Yep, a lot of the media has spent Obama's (0+ / 0-)

      entire presidency trying to undermine him by talking up the great white hope of the Democratic Party, Hillary Clinton.

      President Obama at Madison Rally 9/28/2010 - "Change is not a spectator sport."

      by askew on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 07:34:09 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  I've said this before, and I'll say it again: (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Radiowalla, tardis10, poco

    This proves the truth of what Germaine Greer once said. "Most women have no idea how much men hate them."

    It's not just Mrs. Clinton. You and I and your next-door neighbor can't win. If you're a woman you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

    Only when we finally have equal representation in Congress, in the effing media, and in business will women get a break.

    "Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

    by Diana in NoVa on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 07:33:16 PM PST

  •  Thank you for this interesting book review (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tardis10, poco

    and a walk down memory lane.

    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.” — William Arthur Ward

    by LilithGardener on Sun Feb 16, 2014 at 08:27:20 PM PST

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site