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Again we see that the people taking to the streets can accomplish change. Certainly doesn't bode well for the legions of armchair activists.

Today Ukrainians are strolling around the compound of the former president of Ukraine.. pondering the sold gold shower heads, solid gold toilet, and wine cellar stocked with bottles of wine with Mr. Yanukovych's face on them.

???

It appears the people determined this was no way to run a nation.

it's been both hilarious and disturbing to see some folks here claiming the Ukraine is being "taken over by fascists"... and now, "ironically" Putin is some sort of good guy in all of this.

FAIL.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/...

Poll

The Revolt in Ukraine Will Be Positive Development in the End

79%19 votes
20%5 votes
0%0 votes

| 24 votes | Vote | Results

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (10+ / 0-)

    "We are beyond law, which is not unusual for an empire; unfortunately, we are also beyond common sense." Gore Vidal

    by Superpole on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 05:25:34 AM PST

  •  People falling for Russian-inspired propaganda (9+ / 0-)

    that the demonstrators are fascist are failing to recognize that the danger of fascism/severe nationalism is far greater in Russia than in the Ukraine.

    An interesting, informative read:

    Fascism, Russia, and Ukraine
    Timothy Snyder
    This article will appear in the coming March 20, 2014 issue of The New York Review.

    snip

    The protesters represent every group of Ukrainian citizens: Russian speakers and Ukrainian speakers (although most Ukrainians are bilingual), people from the cities and the countryside, people from all regions of the country, members of all political parties, the young and the old, Christians, Muslims, and Jews. Every major Christian denomination is represented by believers and most of them by clergy. The Crimean Tatars march in impressive numbers, and Jewish leaders have made a point of supporting the movement. The diversity of the Maidan is impressive: the group that monitors hospitals so that the regime cannot kidnap the wounded is run by young feminists. An important hotline that protesters call when they need help is staffed by LGBT activists.

    snip

    The protests in the Maidan, we are told again and again by Russian propaganda and by the Kremlin’s friends in Ukraine, mean the return of National Socialism to Europe. The Russian foreign minister, in Munich, lectured the Germans about their support of people who salute Hitler. The Russian media continually make the claim that the Ukrainians who protest are Nazis. Naturally, it is important to be attentive to the far right in Ukrainian politics and history. It is still a serious presence today, although less important than the far right in France, Austria, or the Netherlands. Yet it is the Ukrainian regime rather than its opponents that resorts to anti-Semitism, instructing its riot police that the opposition is led by Jews. In other words, the Ukrainian government is telling itself that its opponents are Jews and us that its opponents are Nazis.

    snip

    The history of the Holocaust is part of our own public discourse, our agora, or maidan. The current Russian attempt to manipulate the memory of the Holocaust is so blatant and cynical that those who are so foolish to fall for it will one day have to ask themselves just how, and in the service of what, they have been taken in. If fascists take over the mantle of antifascism, the memory of the Holocaust will itself be altered. It will be more difficult in the future to refer to the Holocaust in the service of any good cause, be it the particular one of Jewish history or the general one of human rights.

    http://www.nybooks.com/...

    "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

    by Lawrence on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 05:37:06 AM PST

    •  Exactly. and this is why I'm wondering (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      shaharazade, fcvaguy, mookins

      if Putin is going to snap and "make an example" of the Ukraine.

      he's bad news. the recent 60 Mins segment regarding the American businessman who three of his Russian businesses stolen from him, and the perpetrators then finagling a $200 million tax break for themselves-- that fairly well confirmed for me Russia is truly messed up.

      "We are beyond law, which is not unusual for an empire; unfortunately, we are also beyond common sense." Gore Vidal

      by Superpole on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 05:40:51 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Tymoshenko wants to hitch her star... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    FG, shaharazade, fcvaguy, protectspice

    ...to the protests but she was part of the problem in the first place.  At least some of the protesters recognized that by walking away when she spoke.

    It's not the side effects of the cocaine/I'm thinking that it must be love

    by Rich in PA on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 05:43:51 AM PST

    •  Yeah, I don't know all of the details (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bear83, shaharazade, fcvaguy

      regarding her record, but I have to wonder if her being thrown into prison wasn't more political than anything else.

      I'm totally not interested in whatever Putin has to say about her- he has zero credibility.

      "We are beyond law, which is not unusual for an empire; unfortunately, we are also beyond common sense." Gore Vidal

      by Superpole on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 05:48:54 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Perhaps you should read some of them (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        shaharazade, mickT, protectspice, mookins

        She is an Oligarch. Was convicted of abuse of office while forcing a gas company to sign a deal with Russia. Has been charged with other crimes such as embezzlement and tax evasion. Had a business partner convicted in the US of money laundering, corruption and fraud.

        On the other hand, she wants in the EU and a free trade agreement with them also while having strong ties to Russia. Sounds like the perfect politician to me....

        •  I'm Shocked.. Shocked, I tell you! (0+ / 0-)

          there are corrupt politicians elsewhere in the world, not just the United States!!

          I would like to here her version of events, not just Putin's. what sort of kangaroo court trial did she have, I wonder?

          "We are beyond law, which is not unusual for an empire; unfortunately, we are also beyond common sense." Gore Vidal

          by Superpole on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 10:08:40 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Of course her version is she is not guilty (0+ / 0-)

            Putin actually liked her and worked with her on many occasions including the deal she was convicted of. So there goes your Putin theory.

            The West says it was a Kangaroo trial. The Ukrainian Supreme Court upheld the charges. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

            Look, she's as tainted as most of the politicians there. She also has a few mansions, was known for wearing designer dresses, lived in opulence. Was a favorite of John McCain and why he visited Ukraine in the last few years. I understand your hated of all things Putin but perhaps you might want to consider who you are backing and cheering. They might not be what you think they are, such as her.

        •  Ya she was definitely guilty (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mookins

          but there was also an obvious political angle to her imprisonment.

          KOS: "Mocking partisans focusing on elections? Even less reason to be on Daily Kos."

          by fcvaguy on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 10:09:55 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  She was indeed (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Rich in PA

      Relieved to hear today she's not interested in being Prime Minister or President.

      KOS: "Mocking partisans focusing on elections? Even less reason to be on Daily Kos."

      by fcvaguy on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 10:09:13 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  A fluid situation. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Superpole, PeterHug, mookins

    Seems to be a paucity of good guys in this mess.
    I just hope we didn't stir it up.

    If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

    by CwV on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 05:48:42 AM PST

    •  Sooo... ALL of the protestors are "bad guys"? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bear83, shaharazade

      what makes them bad, I wonder?

      "We are beyond law, which is not unusual for an empire; unfortunately, we are also beyond common sense." Gore Vidal

      by Superpole on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 05:51:51 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Well, from what I can gather, (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mickT

        the shooting from the public side of the barricades was from far right/neonazis that were opposed to Russian influence. The government side are pro-Putin and just as brutal...
        If there are good guys involved in this, they have been pushed to the back and don't seem to be getting much media.
        If my impression is wrong, I'd be happy to be enlightened.

        If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

        by CwV on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 06:04:28 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  "From what I can Gather"... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          bear83, mookins

          I don't doubt there are extremists involved and maybe they were armed... I'm not interested in the whole "who shot who first" debate.

          I'm more interested in why fascism or extremism takes root in any nation in the first place-- are people doing this just for fun?

          http://www.bbc.co.uk/...

          "We are beyond law, which is not unusual for an empire; unfortunately, we are also beyond common sense." Gore Vidal

          by Superpole on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 06:11:33 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  "..why fascism or extremism takes root.." (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            mickT

            I suspect that there is an underlying driver when this happens. That is: someone stands to gain money or power and they use peoples' inherent prejudices, whipped to a froth, to manipulate the masses for their ends.
            That's why I can believe it when I learn of our "democracy" promotion schemes that end up with a "color revolution" that just incidentally removes a head of state that we don't agree with.
            I haven't dug deeply enough into Ukraine's troubles to tell who is what is where, but so far, what I have seen is not pretty.

            If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

            by CwV on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 06:22:53 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Helloooooo, Germany? (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              FG, shaharazade
              someone stands to gain money or power and they use peoples' inherent prejudices, whipped to a froth, to manipulate the masses for their ends.
              You mean just like Germany for example?

              I think the formula/conditions that foment the growth of fascism are readily observable. in Germany's case it was an economy totally wrecked by WWI (Germany lost, to boot) and by the Depression, the lack of strong leadership, and the need to blame somebody else for their problems (the Jews).

              sound familiar?

              but the notion the revolt in the Ukraine is all about "fascists taking control of the nation" is insulting nonsense.

              "We are beyond law, which is not unusual for an empire; unfortunately, we are also beyond common sense." Gore Vidal

              by Superpole on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 06:40:08 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

  •  “Yanukovych, you’re next". (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    shaharazade

    "We are beyond law, which is not unusual for an empire; unfortunately, we are also beyond common sense." Gore Vidal

    by Superpole on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 06:02:55 AM PST

  •  I wouldn't take Tymoshenko's word for it since (0+ / 0-)

    she wants to be President (she already declared her candidacy) and the trigger for protests was the desire to free her from jail. But I think in this case she was right. Right now people who ran Ukraine from 2007 till 2010 are sort of in charge. While they were far from perfect back then, it surely beats having Yanukovich run things.

    •  Putting Tymoshenko in Prison (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      FG

      was an obvious mistake-- but it's better than outright murdering her, as is the sort of thing going on in Russia regarding the "opposition" to Putin.

      "We are beyond law, which is not unusual for an empire; unfortunately, we are also beyond common sense." Gore Vidal

      by Superpole on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 10:05:53 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Frankly (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    pdkesq, Superpole

    some of the diaries here on current events have been an embarrassment to this site.

    From lauding Yanukovych as a hero of the left to claiming the US and the CIA/NSA were behind a coup in Ukraine. Just ridiculous and outlandish claims.

    Yanukovych was a traitor to his own country and people. Aside from the gold toilet seats, he managed to acquire a $75M mansion on a salary of $2K a month. He re-wrote the constitution and stripped the parliament of its powers. Whats happened now? He's fled Kiev like a coward, leaving his golden toilet seat behind, and his own party has disowned him and voted for a new unity government.

    Just because a government is "left" doesn't make them pure or worthy. Leftist despots and tyrants have existed and will continue to exist.

    I hope the Ukraine finds its way and that the 58 heroes who died in this revolution didn't die in vain.

    KOS: "Mocking partisans focusing on elections? Even less reason to be on Daily Kos."

    by fcvaguy on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 10:08:32 AM PST

    •  Exactly. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      fcvaguy

      These sort of assholey "leaders" are not Leftists.

      they are statists; it's becoming apparent we have more than a few people here who are just fine with that.

      "We are beyond law, which is not unusual for an empire; unfortunately, we are also beyond common sense." Gore Vidal

      by Superpole on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 01:22:53 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Sorry Superpole (0+ / 0-)

    Often you and I are in agreement, but on this I've carefully avoided the spin in the MSM such as BBC.  It is not "Fail" to see the hand of fascism involved when you've read articles and seen pictures like these:  

    http://www.libcom.org/...

    "Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will." ~Frederick Douglass

    by ActivistGuy on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 12:33:15 PM PST

    •  Huh? So the "Fascists" In Kiev Have Already (0+ / 0-)

      "taken over" the Ukraine?

      WHO is their leader, I wonder? where is the cult of personality around this person? it takes time to do this-- where are the indicators this has been going on, prior to the revolt?

      positive changes are already being made in the government; I've heard or read nothing about "fascists" being appointed to government positions,

      Links, please.

      "We are beyond law, which is not unusual for an empire; unfortunately, we are also beyond common sense." Gore Vidal

      by Superpole on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 01:20:50 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Posted without comment (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Superpole

    Shaun Walker, The Guardian:

    [...]Tymoshenko lives for politics and, after more than two years behind bars, is back being the centre of attention. The problem is that not everyone wants her there.

    When she appeared on Independence Square on Saturday evening, she was received politely, but by no means rapturously.
    ...
    ... for many protesters, she is a tainted figure. A group of around 200 people gathered outside parliament on Sunday to protest at the appointment of a Tymoshenko ally, Oleksandr Turchinov, as acting president. They carried signs saying, "Freedom for Yulia, but not politics", and "We were not fighting for Yulia".

    "We need to check absolutely everyone who has been in power for corruption and crimes," said Serhiy Danilev, one of those protesting. "Tymoshenko had her chance, she is no better than the rest. We need new people in power."

    Internationally, opinion is similarly split. There are a group of European politicians who view Tymoshenko almost as a modern-day saint, while there are others who privately admit they find her just as unpalatable as Yanukovych.

    But whatever people think of her, there is no doubting she is a skilled political manipulator ....

    Ian Traynor and Shaun Walker:
    Western governments are scrambling to contain the fallout from Ukraine's weekend revolution, pledging money, support and possible EU membership, while anxiously eyeing the response of the Russian president, Vladimir Putin...
    ...
    Western leaders, while welcoming the unexpected turn of events in Kiev, are worried about the country fracturing into a pro-Russian and pro-western conflict.
    ...
    If the new  government also looks to end the lease of a Black Sea naval base by the Russian military, the response from Moscow could be more aggressive.

    "It will definitely depend on how the new government behaves," said Vladimir Zharikin, a Moscow-based analyst. "If they continue with these revolutionary excesses then certainly, that could push other parts of the country towards separatist feelings. Let's hope that doesn't happen."
    ...
    There was no clear central authority in Kiev on Sunday, with the city patrolled by a self-proclaimed "defence force", comprised of groups of men wearing helmets and carrying baseball bats...
    ...
    With the  likelihood of Russia's $15bn (£9bn) lifeline also dissolving, the EU was under pressure to come up with funding to shore up an economy on the brink of bankruptcy.

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