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House Ways and Means Chairman Dave Camp with House Speaker John Boehner
House Ways and Means Chairman Dave Camp has decided to propose a draft tax reform bill, but don't hold your breath, because even before he's officially unveiled it, Republicans are declaring its death, from Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell to DC-insider Tony Fratto, who put it best on Twitter:
Camp's tax bill is dead before arrival.
@TonyFratto
Apparently, the issue is that Camp's bill would impose a small amount of taxes on big Wall Street banks. Politico describes Camp's move as "Republicans take on Wall Street," but given the horror with which many in the GOP view Camp's move, it might be better described as "Republicans reject attack on Wall Street."

Perhaps the most interesting thing to come out of the whole debate is this amusing admission from one House Republican aide about how Republicans usually handle tax reform discussions:

“Tax reform is hard,” one House Republican aide said. “This is why nobody likes to put these specifics on a piece of paper — you have to [screw] somebody. There’s a magical belief among some of our members that you can lower the rate to 25 percent by just eliminating unpopular deductions. The math doesn’t work. You have to end up [screwing] somebody.”
Given that the one thing most Republicans seem to agree on is that their own tax committee chairman's proposal is going nowhere, maybe the GOP's real problem is that they just haven't decided who they want to screw.

8:40 AM PT: House Speaker John Boehner waxes bizarre on Camp's bill:

"Blah, blah, blah, blah."

That was House Speaker John A. Boehner's response Wednesday to a question about the details of a proposed overhaul to the nation's tax code, a subject that he says he's happy to have Congress discuss even if he's steering clear of specifics.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Yes they have (16+ / 0-)

    They are perfectly happy to screw those they perceive as powerless.

  •  GOP 2014 Agenda......Nuthin. (7+ / 0-)

    Maybe if they make themselves really really small...and don't say a word.....people might forget they exist.

  •  So H&R Block pointed out that taxpayers leave (9+ / 0-)

    $1 billion on the table every year. I'm thinking those aren't your rich taxpayers. Rich taxpayers scream about every scrap. The rest of us are busy actually living life and are horrified by the vultures wanting to pick the USA bones clean.

    Now they have the 2nd (safety net for sloppy) Amendment, and can't be infringed to actually treat their gun like a gun and not a video game controller.

    by 88kathy on Wed Feb 26, 2014 at 08:24:24 AM PST

  •  File (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Amber6541

    This can be filed with that 2009 financial plan with the colored dots and lines, cant it?

    "help police" Catch-22 Joseph Heller 1961

    by rageagnstmach on Wed Feb 26, 2014 at 08:26:04 AM PST

  •  Who Should Congressional Rethugs Screw?! (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RichM, papercut, spritegeezer

    The filthy rich billionaires, millionaires, and Fortune 500 corporations who bribe influence-peddling Congrespeople to rig the tax system in their favor

                                   OR

    the dirty peons who can't afford to bribe influence-peddling Congresspeople to help them and protect them from predatory, psychopathic GREEDmongers.

    (History offers us valuable insights and clues to the answer.)

  •  Screw the poors (4+ / 0-)
    Given that the one thing most Republicans seem to agree on is that their own tax committee chairman's proposal is going nowhere, maybe the GOP's real problem is that they just haven't decided who they want to screw.
    They know exactly who they want to screw. The middle class, the poor, blacks, latinos, anyone who doesn't go to a megachurch ...

    ... and anyone who doesn't have essentially unlimited cash to buy them off.

    Republicans are simple creatures. They represent Wall St.

    “Hardworking men and women who are busting their tails in full-time jobs shouldn't be left in poverty.” -- Elizabeth Warren

    by Positronicus on Wed Feb 26, 2014 at 08:27:36 AM PST

  •  Magical belief (7+ / 0-)
    There’s a magical belief among some of our members that you can lower the rate to 25 percent by just eliminating unpopular deductions.
    And among other GOP members there's also a magical belief that lowering the tax rate to 25% (or 10% or whatever) will pay for itself by generating additional economic activity. That's why they can't consider eliminating any deductions that might hurt some rich taxpayers somewhere. It's because the party is divided between the people who pay lip service to Economics 101, and the other ones who've veered far off course and deep into the land of fantasy economics. And for this we can say thank you Ronald Reagan.

    You will not be punished for your anger. You will be punished by your anger.

    by mstep on Wed Feb 26, 2014 at 08:29:45 AM PST

  •  They know who they want to screw... (5+ / 0-)

    The problem is that there isn't any money there.

    “Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.” - John Steinbeck (Disputed)

    by RichM on Wed Feb 26, 2014 at 08:30:47 AM PST

    •  That's right. (0+ / 0-)

      The baseline is screw the poors. It always is. But once that's done (and it has been done for a couple decades) the only "fat" left to cut is the loopholes that only the rich and connected can take advantage of. So their dilemma is which of their benefactors will they screw?

      If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

      by CwV on Wed Feb 26, 2014 at 09:05:34 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  If it screwed the poor,... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    a2nite, JeffW

    ...they'd be in agreement.

    I'm not always political, but when I am I vote Democratic. Stay Democratic, my friends. -The Most Interesting Man in the World

    by boran2 on Wed Feb 26, 2014 at 08:34:24 AM PST

  •  The GOP is as bad as public opinion polls! Both... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    MPociask, JeffW

    ... want contradictory things. And, accordingly, vote for them all the time without seeing any conflict. Tra La!

    We are not going to get meaningful tax reform because the interests who put all those many and varied provisions in the Tax Code are going to fight for every one of them, tooth and nail, and threaten electoral Armageddon.

    About the only chance of success is something across the board (think sequester-like slashes) OR some new, invisible, evanescent tax that the industry it hits is willing to accept and the Republicans and complicit Democrats can be beaten back on it (think, a larger financial transactions tax).

    And the chances of either of those in the next few Congresses? None to Below Zero.

    There just is no way to be optimistic about tax reform in this environment.

    2014 is HERE. Build up the Senate. Win back the House : 17 seats. Plus!

    by TRPChicago on Wed Feb 26, 2014 at 08:34:30 AM PST

  •  They don't know how to be FOR anything. (nt) (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    a2nite, Amber6541, JeffW

    Hard to have a government when one-third of your representatives are insane and the other two-thirds have been sold to the highest bidder.

    by Rikon Snow on Wed Feb 26, 2014 at 08:40:13 AM PST

  •  gee... I wonder what [screw] was. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JeffW
  •  Media fail about tax brackets being complicated (7+ / 0-)

    The media has its head up its ass when it repeats the GOP talking point that more than two tax brackets is "complicated". Having two or ten tax brackets is transparent to the average taxpayer.  The bracket math is completely done in the tax tables.

    Having a progression of tax tables is just that, a progressive tax code where the more money you make indicates your better ability to pay taxes.  Having fewer tax brackets screws the lower income earners.

    In a mildly decent media someone like Chuck Todd would be all over this GOP misrepresentation.  Instead, this morning we had an airhead CBS reporter repeating the mantra that multiple tax brackets are complicated.

    •  Exactly. It's not the tax brackets that are (6+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TDDVandy, Amber6541, MPociask, JeffW, Inland, CwV

      complicated. And in fact have a graduated progressive tax code introduces the least amount of distortions.  Instead of having a huge jump from 10% to 25%. It would take a half a second to plug your income and calculate your taxes even if their were a hundred tax brackets. This is something really easy for a computer to do.

      The tax code is complicated because of all the random deductions and tax breaks that are baked on top of the tax brackets. Also we treat different types of incomes differently and treat different types of spending differently. Some of these tax treatments are totally reasonable, others are clearly give-aways for special interests.

      •  Absolutely this (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sulthernao

        You could fit the filing paperwork for a a tax code that had 16 brackets on one sheet of paper.  It is everything else that makes the tax code an ominous, multi-thousand page behemoth that forces Americans to spend valuable time and money to do what ought to be a simple civic obligation.

        The only other thing I'd point out about brackets is that I think very many (most?) Americans don't actually understand how marginal taxes work, and not knowing how they work, they're happy to see less of something they don't understand.  I would guess many people think that your entire income is taxed at whatever your top rate is - so not knowing how marginal taxes really work, they see the elimination of upper brackets as a matter of equity.  Those poor rich, we really must help them.

        •  In the old days of paper, finding the right tax (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          sulthernao

          bracket consisted of putting your finger on a column on the far left and dragging it till it landed on your AGI.

          It always was the easiest part of taxes.

          The dossier on my DKos activities during the Bush administration will be presented on February 3, 2014, with an appendix consisting an adjudication, dated "a long time ago", that I am Wrong.

          by Inland on Wed Feb 26, 2014 at 09:05:15 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  But... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      CwV

      Math is hard!

      29, white male, TX-07 (current), TN-09 (born), TN-08 (where parents live now)

      by TDDVandy on Wed Feb 26, 2014 at 08:51:09 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Maybe they should "screw" the 22,000 (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    a2nite, Amber6541, papercut, JeffW

    Americans with illegal bank accounts at Credit Suisse:

    Illegal Bank Accounts in Credit Suisse

    The most violent element in society is ignorance.

    by Mr MadAsHell on Wed Feb 26, 2014 at 08:41:53 AM PST

  •  John of Orange is hitting the sauce early (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JeffW

    today, I see.

    With the Decision Points Theater, the George W. Bush Presidential Library becomes the very first Presidential Library to feature a Fiction Section.

    by Its the Supreme Court Stupid on Wed Feb 26, 2014 at 08:46:50 AM PST

    •  Either that or his regression therapy has (1+ / 0-)

      left him in Kindergarten stage. "Blah, blah, blah, blah." So cogent, so mature!
      I can't believe this guy is third in line. If Obama and Biden are incapacitated, Agent Orange is in charge! That's maybe worse than Al Haig being in charge.

      If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

      by CwV on Wed Feb 26, 2014 at 09:10:54 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  we need MORE tax brackets (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    papercut, JeffW

    during the Depression, there was more than 24. every few thousands dollars more in income, pushed you into a new bracket. today, the top bracket hits once you get to 400k
     and 400k is too low . It should be at 1 million and up, as it was in Eisenhowers time. heck it should be 90% for anyone making more than 1 billion a year.

    •  How about 5 new tax brackets (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      MorrellWI1983

      More than one million,

      More that five million,

      At ten million capital gains and other unearned income is treated the same as earned income.

      Twenty million,

      More than one hundred million.

      And using corporate funds for personal gain is a criminal offence.

      The highest form of spiritual practice is self observation with compassion.

      by NCJim on Wed Feb 26, 2014 at 09:12:13 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Interesting proposals NCJim (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        NCJim

        I's have them be 1-10 million
         10-50, 50-100, 100-500, and 1 billion. I would also bring bag the graduated estate tax. with the first 2 million being exempt, but the top rate hitting at 77% for estates at over 10 million. since the number of estates that actually pay estate tax are fraction of 1 %, and the number of top end estates can fit inside a regular middle school classroom

        •  Thank you. (0+ / 0-)

          I'm not sure anyone actually makes 1 billion a year in income.

          Getting deeper into the weeds I would allow some income averaging for high dollar levels to cover lottery winners and one-time income earners maybe in the form of a rebate over subsequent years.

          I'm with you on the "rich kid tax" with some rules that protect family businesses until the income is actually distributed (Maybe Uncle Sam becomes a passive partner).

          I have always thought the "rich kid tax" would cover lifetime income gain of gifts from the living and the dead.

          Which brings up a lifetime caps, limits or tax brackets on income earned over a lifetime.

          The highest form of spiritual practice is self observation with compassion.

          by NCJim on Wed Feb 26, 2014 at 10:21:31 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  the thing is, there are many ways of avoiding the (0+ / 0-)

            estate tax. theres trust funds, cash gifts, selling of property while you are still alive. before Obamacare there was a lifetime insurance caps of 1 million, once your medical expenses over a lifetime reached one million, insurance didn't cover anything anymore. and all it takes is one serious accident or diagnosis of cancer and you're out hundreds of thousands. as for the rich kids, there is no reason why someone like paris Hilton or the kids of the waltons should get 100s of millions or 10s of billions just because they won the genetic lottery.

            •  That is why I said: (0+ / 0-)
              the "rich kid tax" would cover lifetime income gain of gifts from the living and the dead
              There are valuation games like the Romneys did where you say the value of something is $x when it is actually $y but those should be caught by the IRS.

              The highest form of spiritual practice is self observation with compassion.

              by NCJim on Wed Feb 26, 2014 at 10:52:19 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

  •  I would respectfully ask (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    papercut, JeffW

    that anybody on the left stop referring to what Republicans are trying to do as "tax reform."  This is playing into their hands.

    Instead, let's call it what it is: a massive fucking handout to the 1%.  How hard is that?

    29, white male, TX-07 (current), TN-09 (born), TN-08 (where parents live now)

    by TDDVandy on Wed Feb 26, 2014 at 08:50:42 AM PST

  •  Oh, I think they know who they want to screw. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Amber6541, papercut, JeffW

    They're just waiting for them to fall asleep.

    Ted Cruz president? Pardon my Vietnamese, but Ngo Pho King Way.

    by ZedMont on Wed Feb 26, 2014 at 08:52:28 AM PST

  •  spending cuts (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JeffW, a2nite

    They're not very good at spending cuts--especially for the military.  Ask Paul Ryan what happens when people put his ideas into actions.

    Actions speak louder than petitions.

    by melvynny on Wed Feb 26, 2014 at 08:57:00 AM PST

  •  Oh, they've decided (0+ / 0-)

    who they want to screw. They just don't want it to be obvious to us, the 99%. Who would be screwed.

  •  I can't find details on proposed tax. (0+ / 0-)

    Was it small?

    The dossier on my DKos activities during the Bush administration will be presented on February 3, 2014, with an appendix consisting an adjudication, dated "a long time ago", that I am Wrong.

    by Inland on Wed Feb 26, 2014 at 09:03:04 AM PST

    •  I don't think they have release it. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Inland

      It was going to be revenue neutral, of course.

      The problem is the taxes they want to raise effect too many middle class voters.

      The highest form of spiritual practice is self observation with compassion.

      by NCJim on Wed Feb 26, 2014 at 09:14:36 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  They decided who they want to screw. (0+ / 0-)

    Blacks and anyone who is poor, problem is Reagan and Clinton have squeezed those folks already -- so the math doesn't work.

  •  Is the Camp plan.... (0+ / 0-)

    Is this going to be officially released, in a way that we can use it against the GOP in Nov?

  •  Boehner isn't waxing bizarre at all (0+ / 0-)

    He's merely appealing to the best legal help he's heard of, Bob Loblaw's Law blog.

    I hope.

    Fake candidates nominated by the GOP for the recalls: 6 out of 7. Fake signatures on the recall petitions: 4 out of 1,860,283.

    by GeoffT on Wed Feb 26, 2014 at 09:43:43 AM PST

  •  Reducing # Of Brackets Is Not Tax Simplification (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    GeoffT

    This has always pissed me off. The toughest part of doing taxes (outside of writing out the check if you owe) is doing all the work of deductions and worksheets and form gathering before you come up with the final number that tells you how much you owe.  If you do it on paper and you go to the line for your level of income and find the appropriate column, it does not make it any easier if there is only one % bracket for every line or if it completely graduated and every line is in a different % bracket.  

  •  I do not think it means what you think it means... (0+ / 0-)
    "There’s a magical belief among some of our members that you can lower the rate to 25 percent by just eliminating unpopular deductions. The math doesn’t work. You have to end up [screwing] somebody.”
    Nobody is getting screwed here. Having to pay reasonable tax rates does not in any sense constitute being screwed.

    "You try to vote or participate in the government/ and the muh'fuckin' Democrats is actin' like Republicans" ~ Kweli -8.00, -6.56

    by joey c on Wed Feb 26, 2014 at 11:31:23 AM PST

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