Skip to main content

Screenshot of President Obama's White House comments
In comments delivered at the White House early Monday afternoon, President Obama reiterated his view that Russia's actions in Ukraine represent a violation of law and said that his "interest is seeing the Ukrainian people determine their own destiny."

President Obama recognized the fact that there are many Russians in Ukraine, but pointed out that there also many Ukrainians in Russia. Those interests could be reconciled, he said, "but what cannot be done is for Russia, with impunity, to put its soldiers on the ground and violate basic principles are recognized around the world." Obama said "the strong condemnation" of Russia by the international community "indicates the degree to which Russia is on the wrong side of history on this."

Obama said that if Russia continues, the U.S. would lead a global push to "isolate" Russia and weaken its economy beyond steps already taken with respect to suspending plans for the G-8 summit planned for Sochi this summer. Obama tried to give Putin a way out by offering to support a mechanism to guarantee the safety of Russians in Ukraine, but said that if Russia presses forward with military action it would, over time, be "a costly proposition."

Obama, who reiterated America's support for the new Ukrainian government, also sent a message to Congress, calling on them to pass an aid package for Ukraine when they return from vacation. "I've heard a lot of talk from Congress about what should be done, what they want to do," he said.

"One thing they can do right away is to work with the administration to help provide a package of assistance the Ukranian people in that country. When they get back in, assuming the weather clears, I would hope that would be the first order of business, because at this stage there should be unanimity among Democrats and Republicans that when it comes to preserving the principle that no country has a right to send in troops to another country unprovoked, we should be able to come up with a unified position."

EMAIL TO A FRIEND X
Your Email has been sent.
You must add at least one tag to this diary before publishing it.

Add keywords that describe this diary. Separate multiple keywords with commas.
Tagging tips - Search For Tags - Browse For Tags

?

More Tagging tips:

A tag is a way to search for this diary. If someone is searching for "Barack Obama," is this a diary they'd be trying to find?

Use a person's full name, without any title. Senator Obama may become President Obama, and Michelle Obama might run for office.

If your diary covers an election or elected official, use election tags, which are generally the state abbreviation followed by the office. CA-01 is the first district House seat. CA-Sen covers both senate races. NY-GOV covers the New York governor's race.

Tags do not compound: that is, "education reform" is a completely different tag from "education". A tag like "reform" alone is probably not meaningful.

Consider if one or more of these tags fits your diary: Civil Rights, Community, Congress, Culture, Economy, Education, Elections, Energy, Environment, Health Care, International, Labor, Law, Media, Meta, National Security, Science, Transportation, or White House. If your diary is specific to a state, consider adding the state (California, Texas, etc). Keep in mind, though, that there are many wonderful and important diaries that don't fit in any of these tags. Don't worry if yours doesn't.

You can add a private note to this diary when hotlisting it:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from your hotlist?
Are you sure you want to remove your recommendation? You can only recommend a diary once, so you will not be able to re-recommend it afterwards.
Rescue this diary, and add a note:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from Rescue?
Choose where to republish this diary. The diary will be added to the queue for that group. Publish it from the queue to make it appear.

You must be a member of a group to use this feature.

Add a quick update to your diary without changing the diary itself:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary?
(The diary will be removed from the site and returned to your drafts for further editing.)
(The diary will be removed.)
Are you sure you want to save these changes to the published diary?

Comment Preferences

  •  "Obama wants Congress to [fill in the blank]" (6+ / 0-)

    Whatever is in the blank ain't gonna happen.

    "In 20 years, the GOP will be small enough to drown in a bathtub." - me

    by estamm on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 12:42:46 PM PST

    •  Fill In the Bank (0+ / 0-)

      Ukraine has a bunch of billionaires, whose $billions were extracted mostly through the past couple of corrupt presidents. The richest is worth $12.5 BILLION.

      Germany's got lots of $BILLIONS, and Poland, and other neighbors of Russia and Ukraine.

      This is like if the US bailed out Ukraine's banks because it was defaulting as a result of its richest people pulling their money out of those banks.

      They should pay for this. Not you and me. Why are we paying for it? We don't even have the money.

      "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

      by DocGonzo on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 07:46:45 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Where's that austerity now, Mr. President? (10+ / 0-)

    Maybe the Ukraine should live within its means.

    Sure once I was young and impulsive, I wore every conceivable pin. Even went to socialist meetings, learned all the old union hymns. Ah, but I've grown older and wiser. And that's why I'm turning you in. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u52Oz-54VYw

    by SouthernLiberalinMD on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 12:43:41 PM PST

    •  Maybe we should. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mwm341, Jo Bob

      If you don't have a seat at the table, you're probably on the menu.

      by CarolinNJ on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 12:55:11 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Who's "we?" (8+ / 0-)

        Most people I know are struggling like hell to even maintain a lower-middle class life, and lots more are struggling just to keep food on the table.

        Sure once I was young and impulsive, I wore every conceivable pin. Even went to socialist meetings, learned all the old union hymns. Ah, but I've grown older and wiser. And that's why I'm turning you in. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u52Oz-54VYw

        by SouthernLiberalinMD on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 01:08:16 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  The governing elite who behave as if Americans (4+ / 0-)

          can afford the empire they so recklessly throw around the globe--while cutting programs for Americans who foot the bills in so many ways for addictions of empire.

          I'm one of the struggling, btw, small SS and more month than money.  And you don't even know me.  Don't go sarcastic before you get an answer.

          If you don't have a seat at the table, you're probably on the menu.

          by CarolinNJ on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 01:28:32 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Sounds like you're in agreement with me. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Involuntary Exile

            And there was nothing in my comment that was a personal attack on you, by the way. You said we should learn to live within our means. I objected to the idea that most of us needed to do that--since we already have been doing it for years or decades at this point. That's what "who's we?" meant.

            Sure once I was young and impulsive, I wore every conceivable pin. Even went to socialist meetings, learned all the old union hymns. Ah, but I've grown older and wiser. And that's why I'm turning you in. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u52Oz-54VYw

            by SouthernLiberalinMD on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 01:35:14 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  Exactly (13+ / 0-)

      Congress cuts unemployment benefits and US residents' food stamps and President Obama signs the bill!

      Does anyone doubt that that vast majority of US residents would be safer and more secure with full employment, living wages, affordable health insurance (single payer), enough food, clean drinking water and air, higher quality education and infrastructure improvements than they are with over $1 Trillion in annual military/offense spending?

      It’s ironic that politicians are so concerned about keeping the “American people safe” that they are willing to let many atrophy from unemployment, suffer hunger and malnutrition and exposure from homelessness.

      The people need to redefine “safe and secure” for the politicians. Since it’s more likely I’ll win the lottery than die in a terrorist attack, I’ll take my chances with less offense spending and more human needs spending.

      If I was a communist, rich men would fear me...And the opposite applies. The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles.

      by stewarjt on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 01:00:17 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Oh my God. What a weird comment. (18+ / 0-)

      After a while here, the animus toward Barack Obama approaches Tea Party levels.  

      And I opposed President Obama's focus on deficits, but I also realize it was Republicans who caused much of the austerity.  Well, at least you did not praise Putin, as some might.

      All in all, your comment reeks.

      Join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news and views written from a black pov—everyone is welcome.

      by TomP on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 01:08:11 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  It's a legitimate point (14+ / 0-)

        If we can't afford food stamps to feed starving Americans, then why are we going to pour money into a country in which we have virtually zero interests?  

        I think the aid package is probably a wise move, but it highlights the hypocrisy of the austerity movement.

        "When I was an alien, cultures weren't opinions" ~ Kurt Cobain, Territorial Pissings

        by Subterranean on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 01:13:46 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yeah. That's basically all I was saying. (8+ / 0-)

          Seems to have hit a nerve. Must of been the hostility of my tone. Sorry, it just hits me that way sometimes, when I finish talking to my friends who are working at minimum wage and sinking slowly farther into debt even though they're perfectly competent workers. Or when I contemplate my partner continuing to work with type I Diabetes two years after her doctor told her she needed to stop, because we needed the money.

          Sure once I was young and impulsive, I wore every conceivable pin. Even went to socialist meetings, learned all the old union hymns. Ah, but I've grown older and wiser. And that's why I'm turning you in. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u52Oz-54VYw

          by SouthernLiberalinMD on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 01:22:37 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  The "Aid" Package: (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          stewarjt, SouthernLiberalinMD

          is nothing more than the typical Neoliberal bullshit carrot used to entangle a country further with its Western Bankster Predators.

          Any "aid" package will be nothing more than aimed at solidifying Western Power's control over Ukraine - to the extent possible, now that Russia appears unwilling to roll over and allow us to take all of Ukraine.

          It isn't about people.  It's not about helping the folks of Ukraine - it's about establishing power, pure and simple.

          The 1% are Purists: They only support Candidates that Deliver Results They Can Bank On. Don't they know they should compromise? /sarcasm

          by Johnathan Ivan on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 03:20:53 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Quite possibly, even probably (0+ / 0-)

            but that wasn't quite where I was going with the comment, which was really a quite simple guns vs butter critique.
            Anyway, rec'd because I think you're probably right.

            Sure once I was young and impulsive, I wore every conceivable pin. Even went to socialist meetings, learned all the old union hymns. Ah, but I've grown older and wiser. And that's why I'm turning you in. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u52Oz-54VYw

            by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Mar 04, 2014 at 07:01:31 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  This is actually rather an ordinary comment (6+ / 0-)

        of the Guns vs Butter variety, just rendered more vivid by the unflagging emphasis on austerity/cutting government spending/lowering deficits for three years.

        Republicans support crap, yes, obviously. But my characterization of the President can't "reek" when he himself and his allies are proud of cutting spending. This is an eric lewis diary, which reports on Jack Lew being really happy that the deficit is so low. And
          this is from whitehouse.gov:

        Lowering Discretionary Spending

        President Obama has led the way on forcing government to live within its means through a balanced approach that protects key priorities and ensures that everyone pays their fair share. In August, President Obama signed into law a bipartisan agreement that kept our nation from defaulting and achieved significant deficit reduction, including a down payment on reform of about $1 trillion, by reducing discretionary spending to its lowest level as a share of the economy since Dwight D. Eisenhower was President while protecting critical investments critical to our long-term competitiveness.

        And under this agreement, Congress must pass another $1.5 trillion in deficit reduction, or trigger massive cuts to domestic and defense spending, providing an incentive for both sides to come together.
        The agreement is consistent with the President’s values of achieving meaningful deficit reduction in a common-sense balanced manner, in which low-income and middle-class families do not bear the entire burden, in which the most fortunate Americans pay their fair share, and in which cuts are spread across both the security and non-security sides of government.

        Sure once I was young and impulsive, I wore every conceivable pin. Even went to socialist meetings, learned all the old union hymns. Ah, but I've grown older and wiser. And that's why I'm turning you in. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u52Oz-54VYw

        by SouthernLiberalinMD on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 01:20:15 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  "Forcing the government to live within its means" (0+ / 0-)

          is a Republican talking point, for those playing along at home, used by no less a personage than Eric Cantor:

          House Republican Leader Eric Cantor (R-VA): In a joint editorial with Rep. Bob Goodlatte (R-VA), wrote: “Just as any family or business has to do, Washington needs to learn to live within its means.” Reported three mortgages totaling at least $1 million.
          Here's some other awesome individuals using the same talking point:
          House Budget Committee Member Scott Rigell (R-VA): Boasted that he voted for a balanced budget amendment because: “I know that American families do what they have to do to live within their means; and so too should the government.” Reported $1.5 million in lines of credit, a $500,000-plus mortgage, and over $10,000 in credit card debt.
          House Budget Committee Member Bill Flores (R-TX): Wrote: “It’s time Washington was forced to finally live within its means and cut up the credit cards. Every American family and 49 out of 50 states currently abide by some form of a balanced-budget requirement. If they can make the hard choices to pay their bills and live within their means, then Washington should too,” and “American families and businesses must live by this principle every day, and they want Congress to abide by the same rule.” Reported  two mortgages on residences totaling over $1.5 million.
          (Note: apparently Flores doesn't believe so much in cutting up credit cards as he does in tearing up the bill and refusing to pay it.)
          House Budget Committee Member Alan Nunnelee (R-MS): “Families and businesses in my district have been sitting down, cutting spending, balancing their budgets and making tough decisions. It’s time for the federal government to do the same. A balanced budget amendment will legally force the federal government to only spend what it takes in and start living within its means – a practice Mississippi families and businesses are asked to do every day, yet a practice our own President refuses to participate in. Reported four mortgages on two properties, totaling more than $145,000.
          House Budget Committee Member James Lankford (R-OK): Said in a floor speech: “Nineteen years ago my wife and I married. I was still in school, I was working as much as I could, she was also working, but we were barely making it, but we made the decision, we were not going to run up credit card debt and live beyond our means. We paid our school loans, we tied to our church, we ate a lot of peanut butter, and we lived simply. As Dave Ramsey said, we determined to act our wage. It’s a biblical principal for myself and my family; Proverbs 22:7 states, ‘The borrower is a slave to the lender.’ Proverbs 22 applies to families, and Proverbs 22 applies to nations. If we were living within our means as a nation, almost all the debate in the last six months in this chamber would have been different.” Reported that he “is a slave” to Bank of America, with whom he has a mortgage of more than $100,000.

          Sure once I was young and impulsive, I wore every conceivable pin. Even went to socialist meetings, learned all the old union hymns. Ah, but I've grown older and wiser. And that's why I'm turning you in. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u52Oz-54VYw

          by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Mar 04, 2014 at 07:12:18 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  No need for the personal attack remark: (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        SouthernLiberalinMD

        "All in all, your comment reeks."

        And comparing the commenter to the Tea Party. Really???

        It shouldn't be weird that someone has a different viewpoint than yours. Reasonable minds differ.

        The Ukraine situation is emerging and will likely be fluid for some time.  A person's view about the situation may change, possibly even yours.

        Also (http://www.dailykos.com/...):

        "Any and all insults are HRable. Although users are never required to uprate any comment, it is considered a violation of site policy to uprate a comment with an insult in it."

        Failure to Publicize Acts of Hatred Only Allows Them to Fester and Metastasize.

        by BoxerDave on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 06:12:40 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Thanks, but no worries. :-) (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          BoxerDave

          What irritates me here is not so much the statement that my comment "reeks" as it is the assertion of "OMG, how weird that comment is" when, whether one agrees with me or not, it's actually a pretty simple and straightforward point. And, additionally, the apparent need to defend Barack Obama as a hapless victim who has had austerity imposed upon him by bad Republican congressmen, when he himself and his administration have repeatedly prided themselves on deficit reduction and spending reduction, often using the same exact language as those terrible Republican congressmen.

          It's the lack of logic that gets under my skin, not the personal attacks. But thank you for caring, nonetheless.

          Sure once I was young and impulsive, I wore every conceivable pin. Even went to socialist meetings, learned all the old union hymns. Ah, but I've grown older and wiser. And that's why I'm turning you in. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u52Oz-54VYw

          by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Mar 04, 2014 at 07:17:46 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  WTF? (6+ / 0-)

      There has been way too much ugliness at this site lately and this comment is right up there. I really wonder if all liberals are the decent people I thought they were.

      •  All kinds of outrage because someone got (6+ / 0-)

        angry at POTUS. Or is it the suggestion that perhaps if we don't have money for food stamps for our citizens, or for commissaries for the families of active duty troops, perhaps we shouldn't be sending money halfway around the world to the Ukraine?

        Sure once I was young and impulsive, I wore every conceivable pin. Even went to socialist meetings, learned all the old union hymns. Ah, but I've grown older and wiser. And that's why I'm turning you in. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u52Oz-54VYw

        by SouthernLiberalinMD on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 01:25:07 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  No, because you are being a dick (0+ / 1-)
          Recommended by:
          Hidden by:
          BoxerDave

          toward a country that was just invaded. Where is your empathy? Does it stop at this border?

          •  Ukraine was invaded long before the first (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            SouthernLiberalinMD

            Russian soldier physically showed up.

            To pretend otherwise is to live in a fantasy world.

            And I use the term "invaded" as a reference to outside influence which helped to support whipping up agitation in the furtherance of deposing an elected President.

            Not exactly as overtly as Chile's Allende, but still pretty damn obvious.

            The 1% are Purists: They only support Candidates that Deliver Results They Can Bank On. Don't they know they should compromise? /sarcasm

            by Johnathan Ivan on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 03:22:58 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  No, I am not. I don't have anything against (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            DocGonzo, Lady Libertine

            the citizens of the Ukraine. Why would I? I've never even met any of them.

            If I'm being a dick at all, it's toward the President and his willingness to spend money overseas while preaching to us here about how we should tighten our belts.

            It's really pretty simple. If you tell 1 million kids that they're going to have to be hungrier because that's the fiscally responsible thing for the government to do, you don't get to ask for a buttload of money to be spent on anything else short of a natural disaster or a hot war attack on our shores, for the rest of your Presidency. Telling the unemployed that they can forget having unemployment insurance and bringing the discretionary spending down to record lows at a time of a jobs depression are just icing on the cake.

            Don't take the milk money and go bowling with it.

            Sure once I was young and impulsive, I wore every conceivable pin. Even went to socialist meetings, learned all the old union hymns. Ah, but I've grown older and wiser. And that's why I'm turning you in. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u52Oz-54VYw

            by SouthernLiberalinMD on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 03:53:50 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  No They're Not (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            SouthernLiberalinMD

            It's not being a dick to be sympathetic but decline to pay when it's not your fault. And when others closer to the problem, who have the moeny, can pay.

            "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

            by DocGonzo on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 07:44:20 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Another good point, thanks. n/t (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              DocGonzo

              Sure once I was young and impulsive, I wore every conceivable pin. Even went to socialist meetings, learned all the old union hymns. Ah, but I've grown older and wiser. And that's why I'm turning you in. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u52Oz-54VYw

              by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Mar 04, 2014 at 07:19:24 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

    •  An American workers' aid package first! nt (6+ / 0-)

      The frog jumped/ into the old pond/ plop! (Basho)

      by Wolf10 on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 01:21:44 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Simple solutions from simple minds (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DocGonzo, BelgianBastard

      What about the corrupt leadership that stole the money and ran, leaving the country head over heels in debt?

      Putin wanted Ukraine, and he was willing to get them so far in debt the west would not want them. Now, he's got them where he wants them, and he will buy them back with their own money.

      Now, since that's off the table due to protests and unrest, he's just going to steal Crimea away, and dare the world to do anything about it.

      Obama is pitching in, to sweeten the deal for EU, and undercut Putin, as he should.

      •  Hey, I understand that, but you can't keep (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        greenbell

        an overarching policy (and moral philosophy) of austerity and also throw money around in these sorts of geopolitical games. Luckily, we really don't need to, because we aren't really facing a lack of money. We're facing an overabundance of assholes in the financial sector, and we really shouldn't allow them to control our money supply any longer, since all they seem able to do is to repeatedly wreck the global economy and come back to the world's governments with their hands out demanding money to clean up the mess, much like a teenager who regularly gets drunk and wraps his expensive sportscar around a flagpole. He never stops because he knows that dad will bail him out of jail and buy him another car.

        All I'm saying is that maybe dad needs to stop bailing him out, and stop creating moral narratives about how it was the flagpole that was to blame, and what we really need is to put less money into building flagpoles. In addition, dad should stop telling the younger kids that they need to skimp on school supplies so the eldest son can keep getting new sportscars. Finally, if dad is going to send a big donation to a political campaign somewhere far away, it's not really appropriate for him to tell the younger kids that they need to skip one meal a day so that he can afford to do so.

        Sure once I was young and impulsive, I wore every conceivable pin. Even went to socialist meetings, learned all the old union hymns. Ah, but I've grown older and wiser. And that's why I'm turning you in. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u52Oz-54VYw

        by SouthernLiberalinMD on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 01:43:47 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Really, you should read Ian Welsh once in awhile. (0+ / 0-)

          Widen your perspective.

          If you don't have a seat at the table, you're probably on the menu.

          by CarolinNJ on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 01:45:43 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Austerity was not Obama's policy (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          BelgianBastard

          Obama did not impose austerity on America.  The Republican Party and the wealthy imposed austerity on the unwashed masses.

          The elite are doing just fine. They have no problem with austerity.

          There is no hypocrisy in Obama's actions. There is hypocrisy in the right wing's actions.

          As for the bail outs; those have all been paid back, with interest, except the auto industry, that is still in process of paying America back.

          Putin = Bush  Putin is a cowboy with dreams of grandeur, intent on rebuilding the USSR and becoming the world superpower.

          Who do you want as a superpower? If your answer is not the USA, then there's no point in having this conversation. If you think the USA should remain the world's superpower, then we need to act like it, honor our commitment to protect Ukraine, maintain our role in the UN to stand with Europe and stand up to Putin.

          •  Have a look at my comments above (0+ / 0-)

            Where Obama is using the exact same talking points as the Republican congressmen you justly decry.

            Your point about austerity is just not factual. If you want, I can pull up the article that shows that Obama and Boehner together came up with using the threat of a debt ceiling crash as a tool to pressure Congress into across-the-board spending cuts and "reform," heh, of earned benefits programs. Now, that may not have gone exactly as POTUS wanted it too, but he clearly is pro-government spending reductions, pro-deficit reduction, and anti-New Deal-style approaches to the economic problems that are crippling most of us. And while the Tea Party may hate him, it's not based on ideological differences, but on, shall we say, something else. Further, I'd be really surprised if he hates them--he probably just thinks they're fools for not making the obvious ideological alliance with him that's right there for the taking, because they're such a bunch of racist idiots.

            Sure once I was young and impulsive, I wore every conceivable pin. Even went to socialist meetings, learned all the old union hymns. Ah, but I've grown older and wiser. And that's why I'm turning you in. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u52Oz-54VYw

            by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Mar 04, 2014 at 07:26:12 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I totally disagree with your mischaracterization (0+ / 0-)

              Obama is not pro-austerity.

              Remember ObamaCare?  The freebie, gazillion dollar give away that was going to break America? Yeah, that's paying off already for Americans, for insurance companies, for medical facilities, for taxpayers, for the government.

              How about that austere bail out program?  Yep, that's paid back with interest from everyone but GM, who's only paid back 85% as of now, but still paying.

              The GOP is demanding austerity and blaming Obama because he's given in via compromises, all the while calling him a big spender.

              You can pull any conclusion that suits your fantasy out of that nonsense, unless you include the whole picture.  That's when your argument falls apart.

      •  "...to get them so far in debt the west would not (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Involuntary Exile, native

        want them."  Details and links, please.

        If you don't have a seat at the table, you're probably on the menu.

        by CarolinNJ on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 01:46:58 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  This is not good news for John McCain. A sensible (15+ / 0-)

    response to Russian aggression. Now how would Pres. Romney have acted?

  •  Sounds like muscular diplomacy... (6+ / 0-)

    and that simply will not fly with the neo-cons.  What is the point of a massive defense budget if we don't use the weapons?  Yeah, I see Crash McCain, Graham, and Kristol Meth making the rounds of the Sunday shows pushing for military intervention to demonstrate America's moral superiority in the world.  

    Do I need a snark symbol?  Nah, you guys are smart.

  •  Putin may have the advantages of (12+ / 0-)

    the ability to project military power against a disorganized and weaker neighbor, and popular support at home, but the economic impact to Russia will be very real long-term. The markets and the west want to know that Russia is ready to be a modern nation, and not one that harkens back to its Cold War, nationalistic and militaristic past.  Russia will lose economic assets and opportunities. In addition, Ukrainians are more likely to vote for a pro-European party in the upcoming elections, further isolating Russia from the rest of the world. If Russia launches a more aggressive military campaign to take control of Kiev, the Russians will have no political legitimacy and it will end up being politically and economically costly. The Obama Administration should take the long view on this one.  They have the leverage over the long-term.  

    Global Shakedown - Alternative rock with something to say. Check out their latest release, "A Time to Recognize": Available on iTunes, Amazon, Google Play, Spotify and other major online music sites. Visit http://www.globalshakedown.com.

    by khyber900 on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 12:49:11 PM PST

    •  The longer this does go on (9+ / 0-)

      the more clear it is becoming that Putin screwed the pooch.

    •  And taking the long view.... (5+ / 0-)

      ...means, in my opinion, declaring that the situation is "fluid" (it is) and that because of this the United States will take "measured actions" only after "careful, prolonged deliberation." Otherwise, we'll grab the popcorn and watch from the sidelines (much like Russia watched us invade Iraq from the sidelines).

      Failure to Publicize Acts of Hatred Only Allows Them to Fester and Metastasize.

      by BoxerDave on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 12:53:33 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Oh, please. (0+ / 0-)

      All the talk of grave problems for the Russian economy are entirely overblown and fail to take into consideration the very real threat to EU economies as a result of the rising cost of gas, which is critical to its heavy industries. Merkel knows this, Obama knows this, and Putin knows this. Never forget that the energy markets are global. Russia may get temporarily hammered while they expand their pipeline to the EAST, but they're sitting on a shit-ton of Siberian gas which the Chinese will be all too happy to buy. Meanwhile, prices go up for everybody, including you, me, Obama and Merkel. Who here thinks that Obama and Merkel are willing to gamble world-wide recession for the sake of keeping Crimea within Ukraine, because I want to take the opposite position from you in all your trades.

  •  I thought we repealed that one (10+ / 0-)
    the principle that no country has a right to send in troops to another country unprovoked
    Why don't you check with Kerry and Clinton on that, Mr. President.  I believe that principle is no longer operative.  
  •  What is in the aid package? (7+ / 0-)

    That's kind of important.....

    P.S. I am not a crackpot.

    by BoiseBlue on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 12:51:13 PM PST

  •  Samantha Power (9+ / 0-)

    Speaking at UN now.  On CNN.  Pretty confrontational

  •  The charge of the light brigade (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TofG

    to bring aid to the people of Ukraine.  Yep, only this time, without firing a shot.  The Russians are gonna loose Crimea again if they do not change their ways.

  •  Some daylight (0+ / 0-)

    between EU and US on scope and timing of sanctions.  

  •  How about a $15 billion loan... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TofG

    and some discount fuel?

    If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

    by HairyTrueMan on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 12:55:25 PM PST

    •  Some reasons why not: (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      dumpster, native

      1. You're going to bail out the Ukraine and not, say, Detroit?
      2. I have seen little indication that the right-wing thugs who are now in control of the Ukraine are any less corrupt than the pro-Russian thugs who were in control up to last week, who apparently took billions of dollars (or rubles or whatever) with them when they left. I am not in favor of pouring money down a bottomless pit, especially when it isn't clear that the current government has any ability to generate funds to ever pay it back.
      3. How do you know the US hasn't already been pouring that kind of money into funding the opposition that is now in power? They wouldn't admit that Putin is right about this, of course, but I assume the opposition would not have been as quick to move if they didn't have some assurances from somewhere that the country would be kept afloat.
      4. It's a terrible, terrible precedent for every other country that needs bailing out.

      •  You should read this. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        BoxerDave
        The president had asked for 20 billion US in loans and aid from the EU. The EU was willing to offer 610 million euros (838 million US) in loans, however Russia was willing to offer 15 billion US in loans. Russia also offered the Ukraine cheaper gas prices. In addition to the money, the EU required major changes to the regulations and laws in the Ukraine, Russia however did not.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/...

        I didn't pull that $15 billion out of my ass. Aid was offered before the Euromaiden by the EU and Russia, and clearly Russia was offering a lot more. And I was talking about a loan, not a bailout. There's a difference.

        If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

        by HairyTrueMan on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 05:58:34 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  The massive amount of moral authority we gave up (7+ / 0-)

    so we could fight the GWOT would sure come in handy now.

    Rivers are horses and kayaks are their saddles

    by River Rover on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 12:56:10 PM PST

  •  When (9+ / 0-)
    they return from vacation.
     
    You mean these do nothing assholes are on vacation! Again! WTF is it Spring fucking Break!?

    6% of scientists are republican. Scientists have no explanation why that number is so high.

    by fugwb on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 12:57:04 PM PST

  •  I can't wait to see what Congress (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TofG, mwm341, wader, PorridgeGun

    does with this

    Actually I think its fucking stupid to address Congress with anything. I am surprised the President still meets with them.

    I mean he has to but is there a point anymore. They fucked up the entire country. I wouldn't be able to face any of them without wanting to choke them to death

     

  •  Where in the world (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mr Robert

    is Vicky Kagan Nuland?  Silence since she dropped the F-Bomb earlier this month

  •  Sorry Joy Reid, and President Obama, I'm not (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mr Robert

    willing to ignore facts for hype and fiction.  

    I've been in President Obama's corner because I voted for him.  That doesn't mean we must submit to the torture of defending lies told during an election cycle.

  •  He did that without mentioning Iraq... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Krush, greenbell

    Amazing.

    50 states, 210 media market, 435 Congressional Districts, 3080 counties, 192,480 precincts

    by TarheelDem on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 01:03:41 PM PST

  •  McCain Just Called John Kerry's Response..... (5+ / 0-)

    "laugh out loud ridiculous".  This from the guy who choose Sarah Palin as his running mate.  Sarah's now basking in glory because in 2008 she said Putin would invade the Ukraine.

    The woman's an oracle.  A long range vision expert.  A first class strategist.  She knew.  She sensed it.  If only, Sarah & John were running the country we wouldn't be in this fix.  If only.  If only pigs could fly.......  

  •  A split is coming (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TofG, Risen Tree, Mr Robert

    The Crimeans will leave and the rest of Ukraine will be propped up by the Western powers.  The best course of action is to pursue a East-West Germany type strategy where one side is unarguably the stronger economically.

    The east is where the industrial base is, and the Russians will pump money into their economy, but culturally speaking the West will be much more open, less close minded, less stuck in doing things the way they've always been done, and integrate faster.  Western advances can update their outdated farming techniques and jump start their economy if they can increase their output.  Diversification economically couldn't hurt either.  Argentina got its boost from soybeans, so we'll see with Ukraine.  

    I suspect the split was negotiated beforehand.  Putin didn't invade the West/East immediately while their military was not on alert and their reserves not in their barracks.  He invaded the easiest space where he would lose the least amount of lives, have the most local support, protect his military assets, and appear in the best light to his authoritarian constituents who are the reason he is in power and want bold action no matter how thoughtless or stupid.

    Tymoshenko is in Moscow and they're not attacking Kiev while Kerry is there, an election will probably be held at the end of the month so that Crimea enters into some sort of cozy political/economic arrangement with Russia while the West strikes out on its own . Honestly speaking, from having met Ukranians from the East, they're better off forging their own path.

    "Hatred is never appeased by hatred in this world. By non-hatred alone is hatred appeased. This is a law eternal."

    by sujigu on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 01:04:29 PM PST

    •  This is exactly what I think is the most sensible (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Mr Robert, TofG, native

      outcome. Just split Ukraine in half. Hell, the way a lot of Crimeans are acting, it's almost as if they WANTED Russia to come in.

    •  Is this all about Putin's paranoia? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TofG

      Russia's ties with eastern Ukraine and Crimea are really strong and nothing that happened in Kiev was going to change that.

      The shakeout of the new government was likely to be less friendly with Russia and more open to Europe relative to the previous regime. But that's still pretty damn friendly with Russia.

      So the outcome before the troops were sent in is the same as the outcome after the troops were sent in. What was the point of sending the troops?

    •  I don't think Putin wants to invade (0+ / 0-)

      anywhere. He wants to keep control of Sevastopol, and prevent a tactical alliance between Kiev and the Crimean Tatars. Period.

  •  Shades of George W. Bush! (0+ / 0-)

    Bush sent humanitarian aid on military transports -- and sent US navy ships to the area.

    The Russians backed down from attacking the Georgian capital, but Bush also shied away from using the military to do "military" things.

    LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

    by dinotrac on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 01:05:43 PM PST

  •  great diary, Jed (6+ / 0-)

    I'm glad we have President Obama at the helm right now, rather than John McCain or Mitt Romney.

    KOS: "Mocking partisans focusing on elections? Even less reason to be on Daily Kos."

    by fcvaguy on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 01:10:12 PM PST

  •  I'm sure Putin feels just terrible (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Jabarten, greenbell, Mr Robert, nextstep

    that he might be on the wrong side of history

    •  Ruble is tanking, Russian stock market in a dive. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mjd in florida, TofG, Risen Tree

      He'll never admit he's on the wrong side of history.  But right now he's on the wrong side of the financial markets.  Russian mafia/oligarchs who support Putin not going to be happy with this outcome.

      Dont Mourn, Organize !#konisurrender

      by cks175 on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 01:22:30 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Putin should feel terrible. This aggression may (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mjd in florida

      condemn Russia to be an economic and political backwater for quite some time, and solidify oppostion in Europe to reliance on Russia economically. With energy production growth in other areas of the world the sole significant Russian export could be endangered.

      •  You mean (0+ / 0-)

        a) Putin is concerned about eventual Russian economic dynamism more than present political muscle?
        and
        b) He worries that Europe will shut the valve on Russian gas pipelines?

        Maybe not.

  •  Ukraine is Russia's responsibility (5+ / 0-)

    The Ukrainian government, however corrupt it may have been, was the majority choice in an election.

    That president was overthrown by a mob in which neo-Nazis were prominent.

    The parliament, under threat from that same mob, immediately voted to deny equal language rights to the half or so of the population for whom standard Russian is their first language.

    Putin has authorized limited and thus far non-violent military action to keep the chaos seen in Kiev from spreading. This step resembles US interventions in Panama and Grenada, although it differs in being non-violent, at least for the present.

    Why does the above sequence of events constitute any kind of crisis for the US, the UK, or the EU?

    If my soldiers were to begin to think, not one would remain in the ranks. -Frederick the Great

    by Valatius on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 01:24:10 PM PST

    •  because soldiers (0+ / 0-)

      If Congress passes an "English only law" would Mexico be justified in sending troops into Southern California?

      The only reason it's nonviolent is that the Ukrainian army is a tenth the size of the Russian army. If Ukrainian troops were occupying territory in Russia, you can bet there would be violence.

      •  Only the neo-Nazis obsess over the language issue (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        native, PhilK

        In Ukraine since the difference between Russian and Ukrainian is quite small, perhaps only a little greater than British and American forms of English. The real issue, as in the US "English only" movement is that it signals that the right wing is targeting a segment of the population.

        The Svoboda and Right Sector groups are so violent that they took over the entire protest movement in Kiev and are now dominant. As I indicated above, it would be irresponsible for Putin to allow such extremists to gain power in Ukraine.

        If my soldiers were to begin to think, not one would remain in the ranks. -Frederick the Great

        by Valatius on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 02:32:51 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  That's not the only reason (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        PhilK

        this "invasion" has been non-violent. Another reason is that a majority of Crimeans are glad to have the soldiers there.

    •  Agreed, we've seen the rise of the far-right (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      native

      All over Europe over the past decade.  No we're seeing it in Ukraine.  I sure as heck don't want any of my tax dollars going to fund those far-right ultra nationalist elements in Ukraine.

  •  Slow down just a tad, please (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    limpidglass, Mr Robert, CarolinNJ, native

    Before Congress does anything, I hope there is a thorough hearing on whether (actually, to what extent) the US and its allies (UK, primarily) were involved in fomenting the "popular uprising" that resulted in chasing the duly elected leader (though vile and corrupt and all that) out and installing the opposition as the (alleged) government of the Ukraine.

    I am no fan of Putin. But I am deeply suspicious that this "popular uprising" had astroturf written all over it -- and that the people who have taken over in Ukraine include some pretty unsavory right-wing nationalist characters. Putin says they acted with US money and backing; I don't believe it just because he says it, far from it, but that doesn't mean it's false.

    If you tweak the Russian bear on the nose, it is predictable that he will rage and destroy. So it's only reasonable to find out whether the US/UK were involved, directly, or through the CIA etc., in the tweaking.

    •   U.S.-funded National Endowment for Democracy (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      native
      NED, a $100 million-a-year agency created by the Reagan administration in 1983 to promote political action and psychological warfare against targeted states, lists 65 projects that it supports financially inside Ukraine, including training activists, supporting “journalists” and promoting business groups, effectively creating a full-service structure primed and ready to destabilize a government in the name of promoting “democracy.”
      http://www.commondreams.org/...
    •  The Russian bear's nose has indeed been tweaked, (0+ / 0-)

      but so far this bear hasn't raged or destroyed anything. It has merely lumbered into what it considers its own domain, and growled loudly.

      Meanwhile Nuland and Kerry are gesticulating just out of reach, yelling insults at it. Terrific diplomacy, that.

  •  Aid to Ukraine much less expensive than war. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TofG

    Congress should step up to the plate.

  •  For all those who think they understand even the (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    native

    barest outline of Ukraine politics:  http://www.nybooks.com/...

    It's dizzying in it's complexity, just as American politics are if you have any affinity for nuance and detail--and understand how truly big this country is and the differences from region to region.  There is no one-size-fits-all in even the smallest countries and squashing down the narrative to fit a personal ideology doesn't make for sustainable, to use the current buzzword, approaches to programmatic planning.

    If you don't have a seat at the table, you're probably on the menu.

    by CarolinNJ on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 02:00:34 PM PST

  •  1994 Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances (0+ / 0-)

    Was signed by USA, UK, Ukraine and Russian Federation. In return for surrendering the nuclear weapons (3rd largest inventory in the world at that time) left in Ukraine following the breakup of the Soviet Union, the signatories pledged to respect Ukrainian territorial integrity.

    That fact alone gives the USA and the West all the "moral high ground" it needs, for whatever it's worth. Diplomatic and economic "weapons", e.g., freezing assets, cutting off investment and credit, rescinding visa rights and making travel to the US and EU difficult if not impossible, will bring Putin to the table.

    Yanukovych looted some $70B from the Ukrainian treasury. IMF needs to go easy on the austerity with them.

  •  this is not a one-time deal (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    native

    it will have to be long-term. A few billion dollars buys a few months. Is he willing to stump for the cash needed to rebuild Ukraine? We're talking about many, many billions per year over a period of years.

    This is the same Obama who insisted, with Democratic majorities in both houses, that we had to stuff the stimulus with tax cuts and trim it down. I don't expect very much given GOP control of the House.

    I doubt very much that Obama is willing to offer better terms than the IMF, let alone the Republicans in Congress; presumably this is only going to be enough to get Ukraine through election time and the formation of a stable government, at which point they will be handed off to the IMF.

    And what if a government unfriendly to European interests is formed (despite the best efforts of our "democracy manufacturers")? Will the loans continue or are we going to be punitive and cut them off? And wouldn't that drive them into the arms of Russia, anyhow?

    Obama is making encouraging noises, as he so often does. But the devil is in the details.

    "In America, the law is king." --Thomas Paine

    by limpidglass on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 02:04:12 PM PST

    •  I should add that if Obama wanted to throw money (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      native

      at the problem (which is not a bad idea), the time to do so was when Yanukovych was still considering the EU's offer. Now it will cost about ten times as much to persuade Ukrainians that the West is serious, and given the unstable state of the country, it will take a lot more commitment, both in time and money, to rebuild it.

      "In America, the law is king." --Thomas Paine

      by limpidglass on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 02:21:00 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  "Soldiers on the ground with impunity in a… (0+ / 0-)

    ...foreign country."

    Yeah, if a country did that, it would be really bad.

  •  US in Ukraine is a deadly threat to Russia (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    freelixir, The Dead Man, native, greenbell

    Their ICBM sites are too close to the border.   Our stealth fighters could knock out Russia's nuclear defenses with no warning in one surprise strike.  Leaving her cities open to destruction by us because Russia could no longer retaliate.

    Why does no one wonder how US forces in the Ukraine affect Russian defense?  If Putin paid for a coup in Mexico and showed up on our border, what would be our reaction?
    What was our reaction to the missiles in Cuba?

    Most of all, HOW is all this crap in the interest of the American People?  WHAT do we get by dumping $5 Billion --no, make that $40 billion --into a bankrupt  country 4500 miles away?

    Democracy?  BULLSHIT!  This is the land of Citizens United.  Our oligarchs spend $4 Billion every election to buy the Congress, grab 19% of the national income and smother democracy in the goddamm crib.

    Freedom?  We imprison our citizens at the highest rate on the planet.  Ask Occupy how long those Kiev protesters could show up on the National Mall and not have police infiltrators climbing up their ass.

    Human values?  This is the country that tried to stir up a revolt against Saddam by killing  600,000 Iraqi children with a cholera pandemic -- bombing Iraq's water plants
    and then blocking the import of purification materials under sanctions.   When Leslie Stahl complained to Secretary of State Madelaine Albright about it on 60 Minutes, Albright basically said "Meh".
    https://www.youtube.com/...

    How about our leaders cut the crap and tell us  what is really going on?

  •  plebescite anyone? (0+ / 0-)

    Obama should start saying the p-word. It worked with Czechoslovakia; it can work with the Ukraine which has effectively been two nations since maybe forever. It's time for a split, and it's rather obvious what the voters of the Ukraine would choose.

  •  What moral bankruptcy: (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    native, PhilK

    Criticizing Russia when the U.S. and it's puppets have been involved in fomenting a coup in Ukraine.

    Then acting Shocked, Shocked, I tell you - when Russia refuses to sit idly by as the Western Powers prepare to devour Ukraine via their well known Neo-liberal assault.

    The 1% are Purists: They only support Candidates that Deliver Results They Can Bank On. Don't they know they should compromise? /sarcasm

    by Johnathan Ivan on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 03:17:47 PM PST

  •  Waiter? Yes, I'll take the Reality Entree (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    native

    please.

    Thank you.

    From an excellent piece on CD:

    We know that thanks to neocon prima donna Victoria Nuland, now Assistant Secretary of State for European Affairs, who seemed intent on giving new dimension to the “cookie-pushing” role of U.S. diplomats. Recall the photo showing Nuland in a metaphor of over-reach, as she reached deep into a large plastic bag to give each anti-government demonstrator on the square a cookie before the putsch.

    More important, recall her amateurish, boorish use of an open telephone to plot regime change in Ukraine with a fellow neocon, U.S. Ambassador Geoffrey Pyatt. Crass U.S. interference in Ukrainian affairs can be seen (actually, better, heard) in an intercepted conversation posted on YouTube on Feb. 4.

    And...
    Nuland was recorded as saying: “Yats is the guy. He’s got the economic experience, the governing experience. He’s the guy you know. … Yats will need all the help he can get to stave off collapse in the ex-Soviet state. He has warned there is an urgent need for unpopular cutting of subsidies and social payments before Ukraine can improve.”

    And guess what. The stopgap government formed after the coup designated Nuland’s guy Yats, Arseniy Yatsenyuk, prime minister! What luck! Yats is 39 and has served as head of the central bank, foreign minister and economic minister. And, as designated pinch-hitter-prime-minister, he has already talked about the overriding need for “responsible government,” one willing to commit “political suicide,” as he put it, by taking unpopular social measures.

    Those poor Ukrainians in the western part really have no clue what Western sponsored Austerity is going to feel like.

    But they will soon.

    Thanks to the U.S. and its Western Puppets fomenting "revolution" against a democratically elected leader, in order to seize yes another country, impose "reform" (Austerity) and allow the Predator Elite to plunder it to their fill.

    And Russia is tarred and feathered as the bad guy for standing in the way of this U.S. led sweet, wonderful, humanitarian plan for Ukraine.  /sarcasm

    I'm glad Russia stepped up.  At least maybe the West won't get all of Ukraine for the Predator Elite.

    The 1% are Purists: They only support Candidates that Deliver Results They Can Bank On. Don't they know they should compromise? /sarcasm

    by Johnathan Ivan on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 03:32:41 PM PST

    •  Christ almighty, what a bizarre comment. (0+ / 0-)

      The vast majority of Ukrainian parliament voted for the ouster of Yanukovych.   Are they all puppets of the Western Predator Elite?

      Then Yanukovych decides, hey, I'm going to mass murder some protesters and then flee to my good buddy Putin who will give me safe harbor.

      But who cares about those protesters, right?  They were just fomented by the neocons anyway.    Free assembly?  For me, but not for thee.  Good thing Putin was nice enough to take in this poor, persecuted man and invade Ukranian territory, that will stick it to those Western Powers!  I'm glad Russia stepped up.

      •  I imagine you called for foreign intervention (0+ / 0-)

        when the U.S. government showed its true respect for Free Assembly during Occupy?

        I'm sorry, but the U.S. has no legitimate authority on the issue of Ukraine.  And unlike other recent examples (Venezuela, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya), it appears that Russia has no intent of allowing the U.S. and its Client states carte-blanc with respect to Ukraine.

        To think that the U.S. gives a damn about the people of Ukraine is to rely on a suspension of disbelief beyond imagination.

        It's about expanding our Global Empire and imposing neoliberal "Free Market" economic policies on yet another country.  Hell, the new powers-that-be in Ukraine are already talking about the need for Austerity.

        The 1% are Purists: They only support Candidates that Deliver Results They Can Bank On. Don't they know they should compromise? /sarcasm

        by Johnathan Ivan on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 04:24:40 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Protection Agreement (0+ / 0-)

          Actually, the US is obligated to defend Ukraine's territorial integrity and sovereignty under the 1994 Budapest Memorandum, in which Ukraine gave its thousands of nuke weapons to Russia in exchange for security guarantees. That Obama and Medvedev renewed in 2009. That is as legitimate an authority for defending Ukraine from this Russian invasion.

          "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

          by DocGonzo on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 08:02:02 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  Samantha Powers (0+ / 0-)

    gave a great speech today at the UN.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/...

    •  Ms. Power ignores the real issue in Ukraine (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      native

      Ms. Power fails to acknowledge the key role of neo-Nazis in the new regime put together in Kiev. The Svoboda and Right Sector groups openly model themselves on the Ukrainian collaborators with the Nazis and, as the most violent and heavily armed forces in Kiev, are pretty much calling the shots. As I argue elsewhere on this thread, I believe that Putin is acting prudently thus far. (And I emphasize " thus far."

      The new fascist movements are gaining strength in Hungary, Greece and elsewhere in Europe and cannot be allowed to gain power in Ukraine. Rather than attacking Putin, the USG should be offering support. Or at the very least, remaining silent.

      If my soldiers were to begin to think, not one would remain in the ranks. -Frederick the Great

      by Valatius on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 04:17:47 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I agree. USG should be collaborating with Putin (0+ / 0-)

        in efforts to de-escalate this tense situation. It would benefit both American and Russian strategic interests to resolve the conflict peacefully.

        Instead we get Kerry, Nuland, and even Obama throwing needless (and impotent) insults at Putin, to absolutely no effective purpose. And half of DKos cheering from the sidelines.

        •  Putin (0+ / 0-)

          refuses to speak to the Ukrainians.

          You seem to consider facts to be 'insults'.  Or have you not even read Powers's words?

          •  Which Ukrainians? Which facts? (0+ / 0-)

            You and Powers seem unaware that there are two competing sets of "facts" in play here. You simply assume that your facts are better than the other guy's facts, and therefore he must be an asshole, or an enemy.

            This is not posture conducive to dialogue and compromise. It is a posture conducive to fisticuffs. Nuclear-armed fisticuffs.

            •  No, (0+ / 0-)

              there are verifiable facts.  And I note that you gave none in your 'dispute'.

              •  Because I do not wish to trade facts with you. (0+ / 0-)

                I do wish to achieve a peaceful settlement of the crisis in Ukraine. Do you? Or would you rather that blood be spilt?

                •  I always (0+ / 0-)

                  think facts are important, and that they are the basis of a reality-based approach.

                  So, I disagree with you that there are 'two sets of facts'.

                  I share the goal of a peaceful settlement, of course.  The only reason we are talking about blood potentially being spilt is that Russia has brought in military, and he also denied that yesterday, BTW.  

      •  BTW, I love your sig. (0+ / 0-)
      •  The Ukraine (0+ / 0-)

        Parliament voted to depose Yanukovych.

        The Ukraine has attempted several times to speak with and negotiate with Putin.

        Putin is the one failing to negotiate.

        And you think deploying military force is preferable.  I see.

  •  Getting knickers in a twist over Ukraine silliness (0+ / 0-)

    is so last century.   Just let those people alone to sort their  problems.  

  •  Ukraine should count itself lucky: (0+ / 0-)

    Without Russia, they might already be reaping the benefits of U.S. style "Democracy", similar to Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, and Syria.

    Well, we're not finished with Syria yet.  But eventually.. we'll reduce them to a failed state like we have the other countries we've either overtly invaded or merely fomented "revolution" from the inside.

    The 1% are Purists: They only support Candidates that Deliver Results They Can Bank On. Don't they know they should compromise? /sarcasm

    by Johnathan Ivan on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 03:59:16 PM PST

  •  Russia vs. White Russia (0+ / 0-)

    One former Soviet state invaded another former Soviet state and it is only going to cost us a billion dollars. Wow.

  •  Ukrainians Should Pay (0+ / 0-)

    Ukraine has a bunch of billionaires, whose $billions were extracted mostly through the past couple of corrupt presidents. The richest is worth $12.5 BILLION.

    Germany's got lots of $BILLIONS, and Poland, and other neighbors of Russia and Ukraine.

    They should pay for this. Not you and me. Why are we paying for it? We don't even have the money.

    "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

    by DocGonzo on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 07:42:57 PM PST

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site