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The Koch brothers' Americans for Prosperity has a goal of bringing down much more than just Obamacare, reports the New York Times. The real goal is the whole of the federal government, and all of the health and safety regulations that come with it. For the profit of the Kochs and other industry, of course. And they admit it.
As the group emerges as a dominant force in the 2014 midterm elections, spending up to 10 times as much as any major outside Democratic group so far, officials of the organization say their effort is not confined to hammering away at President Obama’s Affordable Care Act.

“We have a broader cautionary tale,” said Tim Phillips, the president of Americans for Prosperity. “The president’s out there touting billions of dollars on climate change. We want Americans to think about what they promised with the last social welfare boondoggle and look at what the actual result is.”

Leaders of the effort say it has great appeal to the businessmen and businesswomen who finance the operation and who believe that excess regulation and taxation are harming their enterprises and threatening the future of the country. The Kochs, with billions in holdings in energy, transportation and manufacturing, have a significant interest in seeing that future government regulation is limited.

Here's the Achilles heel of the Kochs: they imagine that because their effort appeals to the one percent, it's the silver bullet for appealing to everyone. That's an assumption that even House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-VA) has belatedly realized is a problem for his party.

Strong majorities of everyone but Republicans support the regulations that keep the food, water, and air we consume clean, our workplaces and cars and prescription drugs safe. At the same time, strong majorities of everyone but Republicans want the government to fight inequality and to impose higher taxes on corporations. All of this is antithetical to what the Kochs are fighting for.

All of which makes the Kochs the perfect villain for Democrats to run against, with the advantage that they truly are villainous. Democrats know it, running ads in Louisiana and Alaska showing the local effects of the Kochs' anti-government crusade. This election has to be about the Republicans vs. the economic interests of everyone else, and the Kochs are making that very easy.

Originally posted to Joan McCarter on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 09:01 AM PDT.

Also republished by Daily Kos.

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Comment Preferences

  •  God Bless Somolia! Because...Liberty! (9+ / 0-)

    Libertarian Paradise

    GOP - Shutdown Obamacare. Bad website? GOP - Why no access to Obamacare?

    by filby on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 09:11:08 AM PDT

    •  Actually yes, Somalia IS the only pure Capitalist (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      happymisanthropy, jbsoul, filby

      country on earth.

      All capitalism, and no regulation. Enjoy ;)

      •  The Jester - Somalia is anarchy (0+ / 0-)

        There is no functioning government. Capitalism needs enough government to enforce property rights and contracts. I don't think any student of economic systems would define Somalia as an example of capitalism. One of the favorites of the free market folks was Hong kong, before it was re-united with mainland China.  

        "let's talk about that"

        by VClib on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 02:22:35 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I heard Charles Koch speak around 1965... (8+ / 0-)

      Bethel College...Newton Kansas...spoke at chapel talking about the John Birch Society...of which he was a member.    Then he answered questions in the Student  Union.  I heard him say that he was in favor of no government.  None whatsoever.  I was shocked.

      •  He lied. (4+ / 0-)

        He wanted government, all right.  Government strictly by corporate officers and for business interests only.  An anarchist he ain't.

        He wanted, in short, Delta City.

      •  No federal government (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        devtob

        It doesn't mean they don't want state and municipal. Capitalism can't exist without government authority to protect the ruling class.

        "The political arena leaves one no alternative, one must either be a dunce or a rogue." Emma Goldman, Anarchism and Other Essays

        by ZhenRen on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 01:36:29 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Bryon - I think his views have moderated since '65 (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        devtob

        He now favors very limited government, but enough to enforce property rights and contracts. It's a more traditional libertarian view. Libertarians aren't anarchists.

        "let's talk about that"

        by VClib on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 02:24:09 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  The Kochs and their 1 percent (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Dave925

        brethren want taxes that fund government as low as politically possible.

        Back in 1965, the top income tax rate was 70 percent, now it's 39.6 percent. For hedge funders, it's the capital gains rate of 15 percent.

        The Kochs were successful in setting no government as the goal, and creating a libertarian movement to push for that, and then achieving "compromise" tax law changes that have substantially reduced the real taxes paid by billionaires.

        All this should piss off the 99 percent, who are paying relatively higher taxes (sales, property, FICA, etc.) on stagnant incomes, but it hasn't yet.

         

        A public option for health insurance is a national priority.

        by devtob on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 05:18:09 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Well Gee, I Guess ol' Chuck Is Actually a Comniss! (0+ / 0-)

        Since that's the goal of the "Dictatorship of the Proletariat"- no more government is necessary after people become, through the magic of (now discredited) Lamarckian Evolution, retrained to be altruistic, no longer greedy but compassionate and cooperative individuals by the dictatorship then those new traits become inheritable by the next generation.

        The Soviets fervently believed this stuff, they were actually the greatest idealists the world saw in the 20th century because they believed it possible to recreate humans to be generous and caring as the default behavioral traits so that government would no longer be necessary, at all. And there was Bircher Chuck preaching the "no government" mantra just as if he were Kruschev preaching the end goal of Communism.

        Of course, Chuck wants to do away with government so he could prey unmolested on the regular people, the very sort of societal arrangement the Communists were engaged in trying to destroy. They certainly put those types up against the wall when they came out on top in the Revolution and good for them that they did. Lastly, just to remind everyone, Koch Daddy Sr. was the consummate bull goose Bircher, co-founder and all that of the organization. How very curious then that he should have been busy making his fortune doing business with Uncle Joe Stalin. Without the assistance of greedy ass American Bidnessmen like Koch Sr. it's doubtful Stalin could have attained and preserved his power. This is true both prior to the war and directly thereafter.

        Further Reading on Fred Koch and Stalin

        "My one hobby is maintaining a Democracy. If you get these 500,000 soldiers advocating anything smelling of Fascism, I am going to get 500,000 more and lick the hell out of you and we'll have a real war right here at home. - General Smedley Butler, 1933

        by Dave925 on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 10:29:26 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  reality won't penetrate the AFP bubble (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TomP, Lily O Lady

    surely not - tho' they will do plenty of damage anyway

  •  Good Lord, Why Is This News 80 Years After (15+ / 0-)

    corporatists tried to overthrow the federal government?

    They're taking over the country. Can we please finally move on from weazle word terms like "bully" and "thug" and "asshole" with these forces?

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 09:13:42 AM PDT

  •  "strong majorities believe" (13+ / 0-)

    when in the hell are these strong majorities going to start voting!

  •  Kochs are villains, but will win if we don't GOTV (26+ / 0-)

    Making the Kochs look like villains ... that's easy.  

    Getting voters to the left of the Kochs to VOTE in non-presidential elections ... we haven't been doing so well at that one.

    And unless we have a far better GOTV in November 2014 than we had in the Florida congressional election a few weeks ago, or in the San Diego mayor's election about a month ago, or in the Colorado recall elections last year, the Kochs will be celebrating on election night.

    Can we stop them?  Only if we GOTV like November 2012.

    Please help to fight hunger in the U.S. by making a donation to Feeding America.

    by MJB on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 09:19:21 AM PDT

    •  Dems spent more than GOP in the Florida election (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      VClib

      last week.

      The problem with GOTV efforts is not so much money and advertising, it is motivation.

      The GOP and independent voters are pissed about the economy.. and ACA is going to be somewhat of a motivator as well.

      Making the Koch brothers villains is not a motivating factor.  There are reports the Kochs spent no money in FL-13, BTW.

      •  It's not just money, it's effective tactics (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bartcopfan, devtob

        The Dem candidates had enough money in the Florida congressional election and the San Diego mayor's race in March.  But the money wasn't spent effectively enough, given the Dem voter turnouts.  In San Diego, the Alvarez campaign bought a lot of TV airtime, but the Dem voter turnout was far lower than GOP voter turnout.  Better ground game and better direct outreach to voters (as in November 2012) is needed.  TV ads, even truckloads of TV ads, are not enough to get the more casual moderate and liberal voters in "off year elections".

        Please help to fight hunger in the U.S. by making a donation to Feeding America.

        by MJB on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 11:45:51 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Ford spent millions selling the Edsel (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Dave925

          it was still a crap product.

          You seem to believe all Dem voters like what is going on in Washington (and Dem policy initiatives) and all that is needed is a better nudging.  

          What if they simply don't like the product and will stay home and not vote for anyone?

          •  Your comment assumes only Dems are "disaffected" (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            JJ In Illinois, Dave925

            ... and that assumption is not correct.

            Conservative voters are cranky about GOP politicians, too. If you subtract the voters on both sides who are ticked off because they want "their" politicians to be more ideologically pure (or whatever), it's probably a wash.  

            In other words, it's no excuse for crappy Dem GOTV.

            Bottom line is that Democratic candidates have to do a better job of getting Dem-leaning voters to vote in non-presidential elections, or we're going to keep losing races that, by the numbers, we coulda/shoulda won.

            Please help to fight hunger in the U.S. by making a donation to Feeding America.

            by MJB on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 04:09:22 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  The essential ground game strategy (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          MJB, Dave925

          this year is to identify probable Democratic voters who only vote in presidential years and target them relentlessly into voting all the time.

          Easier said than done, but unless we get our base voting in every election, we are never going to get any progressive thing accomplished in Congress.  

          A public option for health insurance is a national priority.

          by devtob on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 05:36:05 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  They're anarchists - all you need is an AR-15 and (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mightymouse, buffie

    your posse and you're good to go.

    "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

    by We Shall Overcome on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 09:22:23 AM PDT

  •  They are waging war on the US government (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dewtx, Gentle Giant, buffie

    At what point can this be called treason? Because it seems to me like they're trying to buy the country.  

    •  They're just emulating their real heroes (5+ / 0-)

      John Rockefeller, JP Morgan, and Cornelius Vanderbilt.

      The REAL robber barons. Who had more money than the entire govt, and bailed it out at least once. And bought the WH when they got behind McKinley.

      Too bad for them that they had to put TR on the ticket to balance the blatant cronyism. Especially when McKinley got assassinated.

      •  Actually, when Bush was governor of Texas (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bartcopfan, walkshills

        the fine state in which I live, one of the young wonders brought in to help him seek the Presidency was at a social function which I attended. The young man was waxing eloquent about the great opportunity before him--to bring back the greatness of the McKinley administration. At the time, I thought "wow--not a Presidency famous for moral rectitude" but maybe there was something more there. Like a government owned by the captains of industry.

        Thanks!

  •  Is the Koch's end game strategy "THE END"? (7+ / 0-)

    Sometimes you gotta wonder. Two, elderly elitist sociopaths pursuing an agenda that constantly damages everyone and everything but themselves.

    Sure they'd like to take over the world. But they're a couple of old egomaniacs; maybe they'd settle for just taking all of us with them when they go.

    .

    .

    .

    SNARK... Kinda'

    "A popular government, without popular information, or the means of acquiring it, is but a prologue to a farce or tragedy"-- James Madison

    by Bad Cog on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 09:25:15 AM PDT

  •  This is some bonus (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dewtx, TomP, Radical Moderate
    with the advantage that they truly are villainous
  •  I doubt the Kochs imagine that (7+ / 0-)
    Here's the Achilles heel of the Kochs: they imagine that because their effort appeals to the one percent, it's the silver bullet for appealing to everyone.
    I doubt they spend any time at all thinking what will appeal to us. They believe they know what will be best for everyone, and like an authoritarian father have no need whatever to be "appealing".  Now, some of the Republicans they support may "imagine" the vision can be properly marketed. But I don't think the Kochs themselves are that delusional.

    “Texas is a so-called red state, but you’ve got 10 million Democrats here in Texas. And …, there are a whole lot of people here in Texas who need us, and who need us to fight for them.” President Obama

    by Catte Nappe on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 09:32:50 AM PDT

    •  Achilles heel? dream on (0+ / 0-)

      I doubt if there are very many people apart from those of us who read this kind of commentary who even know who the Koch brothers are. We are going to get creamed this fall. At the local and state level Koch lies repeated in saturation advertising work because it motivates the army of Obama-haters, but doesn't really resonate with our base. We will lose House seats, tie the Senate at best or lose it by one, and maybe get three governors, two if it is as big a wave as I fear. I vote and help others to vote, but I know it won't mean much this year. Just as the Republican base "forgets" the connection between Social Security/Medicare and the federal government, even the people who benefit from Obamacare will still turn out and vote against those who support it. That's the real world 2014. Things will have to get a lot more dismal before our message improves the House and Senate.

  •  and this is why the GOP can not be allowed to win (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dewtx, TomP, Gentle Giant, buffie

    It's also one of the reasons why after the primaries I almost always with vote for the democrat.

    Der Weg ist das Ziel

    by duhban on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 09:37:46 AM PDT

  •  Left unsaid... (7+ / 0-)

    ...is how greatly their businesses have prospered under the allegedly harmful regulations/agencies.  

    I'm not always political, but when I am I vote Democratic. Stay Democratic, my friends. -The Most Interesting Man in the World

    by boran2 on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 09:42:26 AM PDT

  •  Absolutely (5+ / 0-)

    Why would these creeps care about Obamacare, if not just to delegitimize the entire notion of government action?

    It's like the GOP itself: government doesn't work and we'll prove it.

    Then they and their benefactors can run rampant.

    •  Obamacare is the gateway drug (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      buffie, Ellid, walkshills

      to Single Payer, Socialized Medicine. Once the government would be seen to be the best choice to provide the means for healthcare, as in most every other modern nation on the planet, citizens will be a lot more reticent to see it as America's number 1 problem and would move to prevent its being drowned in a bathtub.
      With that kind of popularity, the government would have the power that it used to have to more closely regulate commerce and levy taxes. Used to, because for the last 30 years Conservatives and their billions of dollars have been hacking away at our government in order to enable themselves to do things that were once illegal for very good reasons.

      "Non-violence is a powerful and just weapon which cuts without wounding and ennobles the man who wields it. It is a sword that heals." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

      by Gentle Giant on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 10:38:22 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Yes Yes Yes (4+ / 0-)

    This election has to be about the Koch politicians versus America.

  •  Not a surprise. (7+ / 0-)

    It's what the Koch funded ALEC is doing in every state they can.

    Add in their attacks on voting rights and it is the perfect storm.

    The Koch Brothers, ALEC and the Savage Assault on Democracy

    Anyone who sits out this year's election is giving them exactly what they want.

    There is something in us that refuses to be regarded as less than human. We are created for freedom - Archbishop Desmond Tutu

    by Onomastic on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 09:45:38 AM PDT

  •  Good that the KXL pipeline will make them $$$ (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    xxdr zombiexx, Gentle Giant

    So while Reid rails against them, Obama and Kerry will hand them more cash.

    Obama: self-described Republican; backed up by right-wing policies

    by The Dead Man on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 09:46:51 AM PDT

    •  Too much profit in the KXL to be defeated (3+ / 0-)

      This is a capitalist country and that is going to be underlined with the coming approval of that horrible project.

      Politics is the art of accomplishing the incorrect and maintaining the needless.

      Legal means "good".
      [41984 | Feb 4, 2005]

      by xxdr zombiexx on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 10:02:56 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'm not ready to count those chickens. (0+ / 0-)

        I don't think it's quite too late yet to keep that pipeline from soiling our environments.

        "Non-violence is a powerful and just weapon which cuts without wounding and ennobles the man who wields it. It is a sword that heals." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

        by Gentle Giant on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 10:39:48 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I know we liberals are defined by that hopeful (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Gentle Giant, The Dead Man

          mentality.....however, we're talking many billions of dollars for the already wealthy.

          Barring actual physical confrontations of a sustained and intense variety, that pipeline is a done deal. Please and thank you will fail miserably have already been rendered useless.

          And yes, I know I am 'supposed to' go along with the prevailing sentiment but I can't.

           Politics is about ensuring the success of something that shouldn't even be considered.

          Legal means "good".
          [41984 | Feb 4, 2005]

          by xxdr zombiexx on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 11:31:57 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  You're a true Liberal, xxdr. (0+ / 0-)

            That means you aren't "supposed to go along" with anything.

            And I was considering the very tactics you expressed as the only chance to stop it.

            I don't think you're jaded at all. I think you're a realist.

            After the decades of Liberals laying down for Conservative Republicans, "Occupy Wall Street" brought me great hope. And the battles against fracking across the nation and in my own community also give me hope that Liberals are waking up to do more and more are waking up to become Liberals. (Or Progressives.)
            I tend to be more optimistic. My many bouts with depression have necessitated that.

            We can definitely be on the same side with differing outlooks. Liberals would rather do dance steps than lock steps.

            "Non-violence is a powerful and just weapon which cuts without wounding and ennobles the man who wields it. It is a sword that heals." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

            by Gentle Giant on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 01:02:44 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  And that's why we have the finest kabuki (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      The Dead Man, happymisanthropy

      our tax dollars can buy.

      Legal means "good".
      [41984 | Feb 4, 2005]

      by xxdr zombiexx on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 10:05:53 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  How is this not treasonous? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    The Jester, Gentle Giant, jbsoul

    Does treason, by law, have to involve violence? We have plenty of witnesses to RW speech inciting people to murder, if not "imminently". Does it not include concerted efforts to bring down our government? How diabolical does one have to be to be considered a criminal under law? Are our laws insufficient? How do we ban such behavior (RICO?) without forbidding freedom of speech, etc.? Should freedom of speech be adjusted to ban outright seditious words, incitements to murder, and the like?

    And, what would happen to us liberal types if we went on the MSM urging that Right Wingers be forced into re-education camps? In comparison, what has happened to wingers who spouted off about eliminating liberals?

    All just saying....

    •  It is not treason because REPUBLICANS are (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      happymisanthropy, jbsoul, marina

      pushing it.

      If Democrats did the same thing it would be treason.

      Legal means "good".
      [41984 | Feb 4, 2005]

      by xxdr zombiexx on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 10:06:42 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Mmm. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      VClib, marina

      We don't want to be the party that takes to arresting political dissidents for treason.

      "Non-violence is a powerful and just weapon which cuts without wounding and ennobles the man who wields it. It is a sword that heals." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

      by Gentle Giant on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 10:40:45 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  marina - treason by law has to meet the elements (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      marina

      of the crime, which is stated clearly in the Constitution.

      I don't know of anything the Koch brothers are doing politically that is criminal in nature. My guess is that they retain expert counsel to advise them on their political activities. Political speech is highly protected by the Constitution, and decades of rulings by the SCOTUS.

      "let's talk about that"

      by VClib on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 02:38:51 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I know the Constitutional (0+ / 0-)

        definition, but here I'll speak in the more general sense of treason, as betrayal.

        It seems to me that a consistent stream of actions used to steadily debilitate and destroy our institutions is a supreme form of betrayal.

        Yes, we do have to be cautious in protecting free expression. But not so cautious that we permit the downfall of the republic.

        Maybe the tide is turning. More people are waking up.

        •  The "more general sense" isn't a crime (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          marina

          These are political acts and the way to combat them is at the ballot box, not through the criminal court system. Criminalizing politics never works out well, in the long term, for progressives.

          "let's talk about that"

          by VClib on Sat Mar 22, 2014 at 08:58:25 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Unless of Course (0+ / 0-)

        It's political speech that goes against the sentiments of the powerful, then you get the death penalty.

        Just ask all the dead from the 50's and 60's, the Fred Hamptons, the Kent State students, the list goes on and on.

        And oh yeah, Eugene Debs, Socialist who garnered 5 million votes for President from a jail cell, put there for 10 years by Democrat Wilson for speaking out against the Great War.

        "My one hobby is maintaining a Democracy. If you get these 500,000 soldiers advocating anything smelling of Fascism, I am going to get 500,000 more and lick the hell out of you and we'll have a real war right here at home. - General Smedley Butler, 1933

        by Dave925 on Sat Mar 22, 2014 at 01:43:19 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Were any of them charged with Treason? (0+ / 0-)

          "let's talk about that"

          by VClib on Sat Mar 22, 2014 at 08:12:58 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Charged? (0+ / 0-)

            Hahah, surely you jest. No, they were just summarily executed in the case of the former and convicted of an Un-Constitutional "offense" in the case of the latter.
            '
            Yes we all know of the ludicrously low definition of Treason in the Constitution. Have you ever heard of hyperbole? Sometimes people just mis-use a word or two. You should give it a rest.

            "My one hobby is maintaining a Democracy. If you get these 500,000 soldiers advocating anything smelling of Fascism, I am going to get 500,000 more and lick the hell out of you and we'll have a real war right here at home. - General Smedley Butler, 1933

            by Dave925 on Sun Mar 23, 2014 at 12:23:55 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Accept that we have people use Treason (0+ / 0-)

              for political act a hundred times a day here at DKOS. It's the only crime that is in the Constitution, and stated there with great clarity. Less than 50 people in the entire history of the US have been formally charged with Treason, and most of them weren't convicted.

              Why don't people think a little harder and use more appropriate terms?

              "let's talk about that"

              by VClib on Sun Mar 23, 2014 at 06:47:35 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  You're right and Good question (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                VClib

                and I can see why that would be a pet peeve but you know, you're probably never going to get through to people with minds so disordered they don't "get it" in the first place.

                I prefer to use the word "traitors" because that these Pukes most surely are. And in their efforts to hamstring the US government when a Democrat sits in the WH could probably be construed as treason- if we were at war. Since no one bothers to declare wars any longer (is there any other way to define an "enemy" constitutionally? I don't think so) the whole crime of "Treason" becomes problematic doesn't it?

                I've often wondered why, in a time when there were many Tories still in America and we suffered harassment from the powers of the day that the founders chose to have such a precise and single definition of Treason. Though "Aid and comfort" can surely be broadly interpreted.

                Anyway, if I were you I'd simply avoid running sniping about it with those who've abused the term. Think of it as if they're simply calling them "traitors". You'll have less aggravation in your time here. :)

                "My one hobby is maintaining a Democracy. If you get these 500,000 soldiers advocating anything smelling of Fascism, I am going to get 500,000 more and lick the hell out of you and we'll have a real war right here at home. - General Smedley Butler, 1933

                by Dave925 on Sun Mar 23, 2014 at 12:22:17 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Dave - I think traitors is a much better term (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Dave925

                  because it has a very broad range of meanings, so it's a blanket you can throw over a lot of acts. Personally I don't believe that any legal political activities reach the level of traitor, but everyone can decide for themselves.

                  "let's talk about that"

                  by VClib on Sun Mar 23, 2014 at 01:40:05 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  "Legal" (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    VClib

                    Yeah funny how lying, passing laws that disenfranchise people and are unconstitutional on the face of them, on and on but I get your meaning and I agree. It's just I feel they are traitors to the stated values of this nation. After watching Pukes accuse me of everything from being a Communist and a traitor of every kind you can name by these asshats for my legal political activity (and as I stated earlier, others paid with their lives for their legal political activity), I tend to cut name calling a lot if slack. ;)

                    "My one hobby is maintaining a Democracy. If you get these 500,000 soldiers advocating anything smelling of Fascism, I am going to get 500,000 more and lick the hell out of you and we'll have a real war right here at home. - General Smedley Butler, 1933

                    by Dave925 on Sun Mar 23, 2014 at 06:45:34 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

  •  Making (3+ / 0-)

    "the Kochs the perfect villain for Democrats to run against" makes it seem like the Kochs are just interested in doing something differently than we do as opposed to the reality, which is that the Kochs and their GOP want to kill off thousand or millions of Americans.

    They are more than just rude: they want you and your family poor, sick, starving and dying.

    You SHOULD be wishing the same on them, even though many of you are 'too good' to wish ill upon those who want you dead.

    Legal means "good".
    [41984 | Feb 4, 2005]

    by xxdr zombiexx on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 10:00:57 AM PDT

    •  They don't value human life (0+ / 0-)

      unless it meets their particular criteria for being valuable.
      If a human being isn't producing something, it's better off dead and not consuming valuable resources.

      Seriously.

      "If they are going to die, let them get on with it then and decrease the surplus population."

      "Non-violence is a powerful and just weapon which cuts without wounding and ennobles the man who wields it. It is a sword that heals." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

      by Gentle Giant on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 10:43:24 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  They are Traitors and they gotta GO. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    happymisanthropy, Prognosticator

    This from people whose family fortune came from helping the Soviet Union build it's industrial strength. Their father grandfather should have been executed for treason decades ago, and the monies confiscated.

    Now they have come to haunt our nation and threaten the very underpinnings of our democracy. Think of it as the ultimate SLEEPER CELL.

    The time has come to land a giant RICO case on these fuckers heads and lock them up. Or save us the fuss and just special rendition their asses to a black site for "processing".

    •  The Jester - learn some facts (0+ / 0-)

      Fred Koch, an MIT graduate chemical engineer, invented a new and less expensive way to refine oil into gasoline. For a decade he was shut out of the US market by Big Oil who attacked his patents. While Koch was in patent ligation, fighting Big Oil, he looked for other markets where his invention could be utilized and found the USSR. Eventually Koch eventually won his patent fight and his technology became nearly universal used in the US.

      When Koch's technology was being adopted in the USSR we were not at war with the Soviets (and never have been) and it wouldn't be too long before we would be allies in WWII and we were very pleased that the Soviets had the refining capacity for their vehicles. What did any of the Koch's possible do that would have been treasonous?

      What RICO violations have the Koch's been guilty of regarding their political activity?

      "let's talk about that"

      by VClib on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 03:05:22 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Take a look at North Carolina (5+ / 0-)

    and the ongoing coal ash/Duke Energy fiasco which should be the beacon of how large powerful rich companies are INCAPABLE of self-regulation and doing the right thing voluntarily for the environment if it means they might have to divert dollars from profit. Don't like coal ash? Make your own damn river!

    Even Republicans in North Carolina who still like to drink water, boat and fish and enjoy some semblance of the natural surroundings they have enjoyed for centuries might take a closer look at the benefits of responsible governmental oversight.

    The demonization of the concept of government and the greater good has been the signal victory of the Republicans.
    Their platform should have an intro that says their goal is to make life short,nasty and brutish, just as nature intended it to be before a busybody government interfered .  

    “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR

    by Phoebe Loosinhouse on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 10:07:12 AM PDT

    •  And (0+ / 0-)

      clean up your mess by trucking it to a nearby majority minority-inhabited and impoverished town and dumping it there.
      They are poor, so they're probably too stupid to fight and are of little consequence to people who matter.

      "Non-violence is a powerful and just weapon which cuts without wounding and ennobles the man who wields it. It is a sword that heals." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

      by Gentle Giant on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 10:45:28 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Leave Snidely Whiplash out of this (3+ / 0-)

    He was an honorable criminal.  A lot of his targets seemed to be landowners, banks, and mining interests.  And when he tied Nell Fenwick to the tracks, they always agreed to a safe word in advance ("Dudley!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!").

    If they ever made a version of Dudley Do-Right in the Canada of oil-sands exploitation, Whiplash would be scheming to rip off the Koch brothers, and the Harper administration would be waterboarding both Do-Right and the Fenwicks for information on his whereabouts.

  •  The Only Problem For The Koch Boys Is..... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Gentle Giant, buffie

    discovery.  They operated underground for decades setting the stage for where we find ourselves today.  They're not anonymous anymore, their sham groups like AFP have been exposed.   Their location & "secret" meeting agenda is anticipated & discussed every year.  It's not such a secret anymore.  Their millionaire guest list is leaked.

    We know who they are.  Harry Reid is getting under the boys skin.  They don't like being called out, especially by Harry.

    We must do more of that.  More ads.  More calling out.  Much, much more.  

    The boys would hate that.  

  •  Yes, Kochs ARE the perfect villain for Dems... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Gentle Giant, buffie

    ...to run against. They're real, have names, faces, crystallized beliefs and agenda and they're unarguably villainous, unlike nebulous opponents like the rich, business, corporate CEOs, or some romantic War Against fill-in-the-blanks. bros.

    As Civil Wars go, there's  lot to be thankful for that there are only two Koch bros.

    Also, we don't have to waste emotional energy on the Kochs or even make them less profitable ultimately - they are what they are, they sell their own villainy, and money is not the bone of contention. All we need to do is  merely aim our sights on them and their ever morphing agents and defeat their infinitely funded strategy to over power & take over local, state, and the federal gov't to the cost & detriment of all other Americans. Should be a piece 'o cake. Whatever harm done to the Kochs by Taking Back America tey will quickly adapt and accommodate. We get America they get more time to keep making money, albeit with new plans.

  •  They really, really, really want us to (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    buffie, Ellid

    break out the guillotines. Don't they?

  •  We The People … (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    buffie

    … are the government.

    I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures. ~Earl Warren 14th Chief Justice of the United States (1953–1969)

    by Road to1 Escondido on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 10:16:46 AM PDT

  •  Why don't they just cut the crap (0+ / 0-)

    and have ALEC draft the legislation to restrict the vote for and any federal subsidies to "business men and business women" -- landowners, business owners and owners of equities.

    I mean, when you boil it down, that's what they want and I've zero doubt that could they achieve that end, they'd do it faster than a high frequency trade.

    I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires. - Susan B. Anthony

    by pajoly on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 10:17:09 AM PDT

  •  Aside from DKos denizens (0+ / 0-)

    No one knows who the Kochs are.  We can keep railing against them, but, at the end of the day this won't make a difference  in the broader electoralte when it comes to the vote in 2014.  Dems need a positive message for the future, despite the economy over the past 5 yeas, We need something.  Anything.  mho.

    "When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains, And the women come out to cut up what remains, Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains An' go to your Gawd like a soldier." Rudyard Kipling

    by EdMass on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 10:17:38 AM PDT

    •  I want to see an article on the cover of (0+ / 0-)

      Time, USA Today or some such widely seen rag with the banner headline,"We're All Suckers Now, Meet Your Owners -- Two Giant Kochs."

      I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires. - Susan B. Anthony

      by pajoly on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 10:25:12 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I'm not too sure about that. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      walkshills

      Information about the Kochs and their proclivities is starting to spill over into the media. No matter how partisan and Conservative-owned most of the media is, they can only hold back so long when the impetus of a story they don't want to cover gets too big to ignore.
      You can't maintain the illusion of fairness and dedication to the Truth while ignoring the bull in the china shop. People start to notice.

      "Non-violence is a powerful and just weapon which cuts without wounding and ennobles the man who wields it. It is a sword that heals." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

      by Gentle Giant on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 10:50:14 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Hey! I used that image! (0+ / 0-)

    a week or so ago.

    http://www.dailykos.com/...

    Did you grab it fro the same plce I did, or were you just inspired?

    We have no desire to offend you -- unless you are a twit!

    by ScrewySquirrel on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 10:17:42 AM PDT

  •  GOTV!!! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Gentle Giant

    And yeah people just love uber wealthy billionaires inserting their very selfish, destructive and just plain odd policies into local/state elections.  Hey Charley and David, love that you've ruined our rivers.

    GOTV and shine the light on them/sh

  •  Re: Russia & Crimea, I like the new sanctions... (0+ / 0-)

    ...being aimed at oligarchs. Wars fought oligarch to oligarch is a decent evolution from oligarchs sending young soldiers to fight their battles. We should expand this new warfare lite.

    Re: Koch's treason, what kind of grass roots sanctions can be imposed? Can we impede their trade, travel, short their holdings to drive prices down, stop their garbage collections?

  •  I really don't get why the right hates gay people (0+ / 0-)

    so vehemently. I mean, are there any bigger Koch suckers anywhere in the whole of the world than those to be found in the GOP?

    I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires. - Susan B. Anthony

    by pajoly on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 10:32:17 AM PDT

  •  Am I missing something here? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Gentle Giant

    Because the last time I checked, the term for the act of someone attempting to overthrow the government of the United States was called "treason" - a Federal crime punishable by imprisonment in times of peace and (if one accepts the currently accepted definition of the term) in time of war is punishable by death.

    That being said:

    Why.are.these.bastards. being.allowed.to.do.this?

    Yeah, I know the answer already: "oil".

    Got it.

    Any idea how incredibly stupid this makes us look as a nation?

    •  Well, (0+ / 0-)

      They've bought most of the people that would have to bring up the charges.
      Treason is easier to define and react to when it is coming from a perpetrator outside of the government. This treason is occurring from within, by people who aren't serving the voters, but the men who put up the money to get them where they are.

      Treason? Start with those inside who do the Kochs' bidding and work outward to the source.

      "Non-violence is a powerful and just weapon which cuts without wounding and ennobles the man who wields it. It is a sword that heals." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

      by Gentle Giant on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 10:53:44 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  explain to me (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Gentle Giant

    explain to me why these bastards aren't rotting in prison.  this is not free speech.  this is an overt attempt to overthrow the government.  subvert law. outright bribery and fraud. this has nothing to do with citizens united and everything to do with sedition.  

  •  The newest issue of the Economist (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Gentle Giant, Ellid, Prognosticator

    has an article on the nefarious activities of the Brothers Koch-first I have every seen in this publication. Yes, the NYT has come late to the party but articles  and editorials on the Kochs are appearing on a regular basis. The more light shining on these creeps the better.

    "Well Clarice, have the lambs stopped screaming?"

    by buffie on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 10:51:59 AM PDT

  •  Christ on a cracker (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Gentle Giant

    don't these fuc*ers have enough already??

    They are too old to spend a 10th of what they have - even if they got themselves a few dozen young wives.

    I picture them playing a Monopoly game with real money and titles -- just for fun.

    Get a life!!! Better yet, don't, Maybe they don't want the earth to exist after they move on .... hmmmmmmmmmmm

    Maybe they should invest in a ship like Prometheus and go searching for youth.

    Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. Frank Zappa

    by Da Rock on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 10:52:30 AM PDT

    •  Da Rock has something there. (0+ / 0-)

      Perhaps they're so completely egotistical they believe that the world does not exist without them. They are the reason for being.

      It would go a long way towards explaining their callous attitude toward the masses.

      "Non-violence is a powerful and just weapon which cuts without wounding and ennobles the man who wields it. It is a sword that heals." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

      by Gentle Giant on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 11:03:33 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  ... and, there, you have it. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Ellid

    "The Koch brothers' Americans for Prosperity has a goal of bringing down much more than just Obamacare, reports the New York Times. The real goal is the whole of the federal government, and all of the health and safety regulations that come with it."

    
    
    ... or, as it used to be called, before the GOP became a nature preserve for psychos, thieves and cases of arrested development, FUCKING TREASON!

  •  Govt of, by, and for the thirty or so people (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Egalitare

    who own everything.

    Skepticism of all the elite institutions, not trust, is what required for successful leadership in this era. Digby

    by coral on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 10:58:33 AM PDT

  •  John Birch Society (0+ / 0-)

    The only difference between the racist, sexist, hate the Birchers were pushing back then and the crap they push now is way better strategy and messaging. A principled conservative would run from these bastards as fast as a real libertarian, socialist, progressive, communist, humanist or any other person who engages their brain. This is a rule by the greediest bastard that can grab the most. Feudalism. Any government allowed will be to keep the lord of the manor safe and the serfs enslaved. It is the stupidity of any politician or portion of the electorate that allows these psychopaths to have any more influence than any other citizen.

  •  Adam Smith Quote rings true (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Algernons Labyrinth

    Adam Smith rightly saw the dangers of this more than 200 years ago:

    "The proposal of any new law or regulation which comes from [businessmen], ought always to be listened to with great precaution, and ought never to be adopted till after having been long and carefully examined, not only with the most scrupulous, but with the most suspicious attention. It comes from an order of men, whose interest is never exactly the same with that of the public, who have generally an interest to deceive and even to oppress the public, and who accordingly have, upon many occasions, both deceived and oppressed it."

    –Adam Smith, An Inquiry into the Nature and Cause of the Wealth of Nations, vol. 1, pt. xi, p.10 (at the conclusion of the chapter)(1776)

    You Don't Happen To Make It. You Make It Happen !

    by jeffrey789 on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 11:38:47 AM PDT

  •  Rec'd for Snidely Whiplash!! (0+ / 0-)

    "Push the button, Max!" Jack Lemmon as Professor Fate, The Great Race

    by bartcopfan on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 12:39:25 PM PDT

  •  If you yearn for a regulation-free world (0+ / 0-)

    Australia Network News, 3/20/14:  "Air pollution in China hurting recruitment of foreign executives."

    Wait...I thought this is what the business community wanted?  Thank god China doesn't have to worry about those business-crippling EPA regulations.  Let freedom ring!

    So there's a utopia waiting for you if that's truly how you feel....and if you own a gas mask.

  •  Real target for the 99.9% is Citizens United (0+ / 0-)

    Overturn this odious legislation

  •  Two smart, nasty guys, may they fall hard or (0+ / 0-)

    soft, but just fall.

  •  Where will it end? (0+ / 0-)

    The social fabric will only bend so much under the accumulated wealth/control of the 1% and then it will break. Aren't there better existences than Kochsworld? (What?)

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