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Intensifying storms are one of the scores of impacts that human-caused
climate change is already having on the world.
It was an epic British understatement. "The picture it paints with respect to the consequences of continued climate change is rather bleak," wrote The Guardian's Dana Nuccitelli of the latest report from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. The panel's summary and full report were released Sunday in Yokohoma, Japan, after five days of final discussions and final tweaks of their contents. It is the second of four reports in the fifth assessment by the IPCC. This one is Working Group II's look at “Impacts, Adaptation, and Vulnerability.” More than 300 authors contributed.

The bleakness:

Heat waves, droughts, floods, wildfires, more intense storms and other extreme weather, rising seas, saltwater intrusion, whole islands made uninhabitable, ocean acidification, reduced fish populations, crop yield declines, food shortages, species extinctions, severe health effects from spreading disease, massive displacement of human populations and violent conflicts will be or already are the lethal products of climate change that will all worsen even if action is taken immediately. And get much, much worse if it is not.

As the report puts it: “Increasing magnitudes of warming increase the likelihood of severe, pervasive, and irreversible impacts." And, “Throughout the 21st century, climate-change impacts are projected to slow down economic growth, make poverty reduction more difficult, further erode food security, and prolong existing and create new poverty traps, the latter particularly in urban areas and emerging hotspots of hunger."

But as Greg Readfern of The Guardian noted, the first IPCC report, which was begun in 1988 and published nearly a quarter of a century ago in 1990, concluded that climate change was "potentially the greatest global environmental challenge facing humankind."

Since that report was issued just two years after NASA scientist James Hansen testified on the problem before Congress, greenhouse gas emissions have risen 60 percent.

Why should anyone pay attention to this fifth report from the panel? Because, IPCC Chairman Rajendra K Pachauri said Sunday, "Nobody on this planet is going to be untouched by the impacts of climate change." As with so many other issues, the poor will catch it worst. They are the most vulnerable, already living on the edge, already burdened by malnutrition and living in marginal areas where climate change will make staying untenable.

More about this and the rest of the report can be found below the fold.

As to who will be affected most, a co-author of the report, Gary Yohe, who teaches economics and environmental studies at Wesleyan University said: “I teach my students that the answer to every economic question is ‘It depends.’ You don’t want to be poor, you don’t want to be young, you don’t want to be old, and you don’t want to live along the coast.”

The response to this crisis, the report states, must include adaptation, mitigation and cutting back greenhouse-gas emissions. The first two will not, as some have claimed, be enough. All three are required. Not to stop climate change, which is well under way, but to reduce the ferocity of its impacts.

A positive note in this otherwise grim report: Some nations and some cities have started taking action, but not nearly enough has been even planned in this regard, much less begun.

Naturally, the deniers—sometimes with lame attempts at humor like this smirking commentary—are shrieking that it's all just alarmist propaganda.

On the contrary, wrote Joe Romm at Climate Progress: The report is indeed alarming, but it's simultaneously "overly cautious."

Romm explained:

As grim as the Working Group 2 report on impacts is, it explicitly has very little to say about the catastrophic impacts and vulnerability in the business as usual case where the Earth warms 4°C to 5°C [7°F-9°F]—and it has nothing to say about even higher warming, which the latest science suggests we are headed toward.

The report states:

“Relatively few studies have considered impacts on cropping systems for scenarios where global mean temperatures increase by 4°C [7°F] or more.

“… few quantitative estimates [of global annual economic losses] have been completed for additional warming around 3°C [5.4°F] or above.”

D’oh! You may wonder why hundreds of the world leading climate experts spend years and years doing climate science and climate projections, but don’t bother actually looking at the impacts of merely staying on our current carbon pollution emissions path—let alone looking at the plausible worst-case scenario (which is typically the basis for risk-reducing public policy, such as military spending).

Partly it’s because, until recently, climate scientists had naively expected the world to act with a modicum of sanity and avoid at all costs catastrophic warming of 7°F let alone the unimaginable 10°F (or higher) warming we are headed toward. Partly it’s because, as a recent paper explained, “climate scientists are biased toward overly cautious estimates, erring on the side of less rather than more alarming predictions.”

The sneering deniers have focused on a couple of elements in the report they say proves that human-caused climate change—which they claim, out of ignorance or malice, isn't happening—wouldn't have much economic impact even if it were happening. Their grasping at straws to prove their denial is based on what Romm labels a confusing part of the IPCC report, which states:
“… the incomplete estimates of global annual economic losses for additional temperature increases of ~2°C are between 0.2 and 2.0% of income. Losses are more likely than not to be greater, rather than smaller, than this range. ... Losses accelerate with greater warming, but few quantitative estimates have been completed for additional warming around 3°C or above.”
Not only do critics miss the point that keeping the temperature at the ~2°C level going to take prodigious efforts, they fail on another level as well, says Romm. Here's Climate Science Watch:
With respect to global GDP, the WG2 report offers cost estimates only up to 2.5ºC of warming. These impacts are negative, estimated to cost up to 2% of global income, which is acknowledged to be only a partial estimate. In fact, the costs of 2.5ºC of warming laid out in WG2 are something of a best-case scenario (or at least a reasonably good scenario), showing what will happen IF we take strong action to reduce carbon emissions. If we do not take action on climate mitigation, we could be experiencing around 4ºC of warming by 2100 according to the business as usual (RCP 8.5) scenario (WGI Annex II Table 7.5). That’s uncharted territory and possible even within the lifetimes of some who are alive today.

Other estimates suggest the high impacts on global GDP with warming of 4ºC (For example the Stern Review found impacts of 5-20% of global GDP). GDP also does not fully account for humanitarian disasters to poorer countries. Extreme impacts in poor, tropical areas (which are expected to be the first to experience the most severe disasters) may not significantly affect global GDP because of the low standard of living—but they still matter.

In Paris, Secretary of State John Kerry made remarks about the IPCC report that were fairly typical of what he has been saying about climate change since taking over the post:
“Read this report and you can’t deny the reality: Unless we act dramatically and quickly, science tells us our climate and our way of life are literally in jeopardy,” Kerry said, adding, ”Denial of the science is malpractice.”

His statement included an implicit indictment of those in the government who refuse to embrace mitigation efforts. “There are those who say we can’t afford to act. But waiting is truly unaffordable. The costs of inaction are catastrophic,” he said. At the same time, he emphasized global responsibility for the problems we’re facing. ”No single country causes climate change,” he said, “and no one country can stop it.”

Yes, indeed. Denial is malpractice and a good deal worse. Action now is essential to lessen the effects of climate change.

But delay is also denial. And the administration's "all of the above" energy policy is delay. Policy and action trump words every time.

Originally posted to Meteor Blades on Mon Mar 31, 2014 at 10:38 AM PDT.

Also republished by Climate Change SOS and Daily Kos.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (122+ / 0-)

    Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

    by Meteor Blades on Mon Mar 31, 2014 at 10:38:50 AM PDT

  •  Zombie Breitbart as Yoda (13+ / 0-)

    Warning - some snark may be above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 "I’m not the strapping young Muslim socialist that I used to be" - Barack Obama 04/27/2013 (@eState4Column5).

    by annieli on Mon Mar 31, 2014 at 10:42:09 AM PDT

  •  We poor's console ourselves (5+ / 0-)

    With the knowledge that the 1% will become prisoners in their own homes, at best. And that it is more likely their security will kill them off and take their stuff. Military Coups without nations so to speak.

  •  Climate Damage is Mostly Profit and Opportunity (8+ / 0-)

    to our economic and political systems.

    The climate damaging economy is at the foundation of our power structures; they gain the most at this immediate time from delay or permanent refusal to act, and they have the most voice and in making that decision.

    Construction, infrastructure, finance, and of course military and security, all will be brought centuries of job security by the deteriorating climate and the political & military responses of humanity.

    To change course now requires diverting vast income potential from our leading economic forces to give to enterprises that are minute to non existent at the present time.

    I don't see where humanity has ever done this before; maybe particular societies facing particular challenges have in the past.

    But war doesn't count, our economies have evolved intertwined with war since we were pulling fellow apes out of trees for victory meals.

    It seems to me there are countless plans for Raising Awareness™ of the present situation, and then there are quite a few extensive plans for actions a hypothetical rational society in our place would and could take if it had the power and authority to respond responsibly.

    Does anybody have anything practical for the immense gulf between awareness and an entirely different civilization having the problem well in hand?

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Mon Mar 31, 2014 at 10:57:45 AM PDT

  •  And the poor will never ever even care (6+ / 0-)

    about warming.  Until the economy is fixed first anyway.

    Maslow's hierarchy - when you don't have your basic needs met, nothing else means shit.

    Best Scientist Ever Predicts Bacon Will Be Element 119 On The Periodic Table

    by dov12348 on Mon Mar 31, 2014 at 10:58:34 AM PDT

    •  The idea that the economy and the... (28+ / 0-)

      ...environment are two separate entities may not be something many poor people recognize at the theoretical level as being permanently entangled, but they understand in practical terms. When you have no fresh water because you're stuck in long-term drought, or your crops are ruined by saltwater intrusion, or you can't work outdoors because of heat waves, or disease hits five times as many of your neighbors as in years past, it definitely makes a difference. Focusing on climate change may be a low priority for many people, particularly politicians and the plutocrats for whom they work as marionettes, but its impacts on everyone—especially the poor—cannot be ignored without grim consequences.

      Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

      by Meteor Blades on Mon Mar 31, 2014 at 11:14:00 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  They may see and experience that difference (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        soarbird, Desert Scientist

        But by and large they won't make the connection.  Even if they did sense a possible connection they see it as so long-term and so far out of their control and so amorphous that they'd much rather spend their time providing for their families day-to-day than becoming an activist.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        

        Best Scientist Ever Predicts Bacon Will Be Element 119 On The Periodic Table

        by dov12348 on Mon Mar 31, 2014 at 12:02:28 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  My little girl is 9 and we are (5+ / 0-)

          poor in money but she is and has been very involved in climate change.  She started her webpage the weekend she turned nine.. Yesterday was her birthday.  she gets it.
          She is very concerned.  Maybe being born the year of Katrina will affect many youngsters but then again she is around a lot of activists on many fronts.

          The rose at the top was grown by Lorikeet.   She used that rose as her little logo/

          Thanks MB... she looks at your posts ref Indians and Climate change.  Her Passion.

          We the People have to make a difference and the Change.....Just do it ! Be part of helping us build a veteran community online. United Veterans of America

          by Vetwife on Mon Mar 31, 2014 at 01:47:32 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  I think you misunderstand the poor. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          Being poor doesn't mean being ignorant of your immediate environment, and sometimes that can get obviously unpleasant.
          Having worked with underserved and marginalised (to use the bourgeois terms for them) demographics, one of the things the middle classes don't realise is that many of them don't put the blame on the infamous 1%. They know that 1% of the overall population don't screw up things this badly all on their own. They really resent those who are somewhat better off than themselves, especially academics and petit bourgeois, who they consider elitist and patronising. Almost all successful revolutions in the past have seen the heads of those folks on pikes while the truly rich scuttle off to their country homes only to resurface later when things die down a little.
          The majority of us on this board are relentlessly middle class, and need to find some solution through existing political systems, as boring as that might seem. We do need to make those systems serve us, and those less fortunate, rather than let the 1% plunder the whole planet and everything on it.

          "The 'Middle' is a crowded place - that is where the effective power is - the extreme right and left might annoy governments, but the middle terrifies them." Johnny Linehan

          by northsylvania on Mon Mar 31, 2014 at 02:17:41 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  People in conditions as rough as we are going to (0+ / 0-)

          experience don't become activists--

          --they become revolutionaries.

          "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." -Jiddu Krishnamurti

          by Panacea Paola on Mon Mar 31, 2014 at 04:53:16 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  The economy and the environment. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Meteor Blades

        Two sides of the same coin, not separate coins.

        Not a lesson easy to teach to the profit-obsessed.

        The most violent element in society is ignorance.

        by Mr MadAsHell on Mon Mar 31, 2014 at 01:42:28 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Superb diary MB (as always). (15+ / 0-)

    Amazing photo of the storm, too.

    Thank you so much for this. It truly is the most important issue of our lives. It needs all of the attention it can get.

    Let's all tweet and post this on your favorite social media sites. This diary deserves wide distribution. (And of course, Rec it here.)

    "We can either have democracy in this country or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few. But we can't have both." - Justice Louis Brandeis

    by flitedocnm on Mon Mar 31, 2014 at 10:59:11 AM PDT

  •  I do want to think that there is still (10+ / 0-)

    time to do something before we're forever stuck in mitigation land with people suffering all over the world. We really are at a turning point, though.

    Not sure why this reminded me of an article at Humanosphere some time ago (which also implies something about the limited usefulness of celebrity "cause ambassadors," but that's another conversation.)

    Bono says Yes We Can end extreme poverty while UN reports Why We Might Not goes straight to the reason why we might not ever be able to eradicate poverty -- climate inaction.

    There is a link to the UNP's 2013 Humanitarian Development Report in the article.

    "Broccoli could take down a government. Broccoli is revolutionary." --Kris Carr

    by rb137 on Mon Mar 31, 2014 at 11:00:00 AM PDT

  •  Great post MB (3+ / 0-)

    "Seriously, Folks, WTH?" - ("What the Heck? "h/t Joan McCarter, Seriously, Florida. WTF?)

    by HoundDog on Mon Mar 31, 2014 at 11:17:33 AM PDT

  •  I've stopped listening to politicians I now (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    citisven, GreenPA

    concentrate on what the have done, a lot of bad and little good is my opinion so far.

  •  $100 billion a year to help mitigate effect but... (7+ / 0-)

    don't talk about that:

    (from the NY Times):

    The poorest people in the world, who have had virtually nothing to do with causing global warming, will be high on the list of victims as climatic disruptions intensify, the report said. It cited a World Bank estimate that poor countries need as much as $100 billion a year to try to offset the effects of climate change; they are now getting, at best, a few billion dollars a year in such aid from rich countries.

    The $100 billion figure, though included in the 2,500-page main report, was removed from a 48-page executive summary to be read by the world’s top political leaders. It was among the most significant changes made as the summary underwent final review during a dayslong editing session in Yokohama.

    The edit came after several rich countries, including the United States, raised questions about the language, according to several people who were in the room at the time but did not wish to be identified because the negotiations are private.

    The language is contentious because poor countries are expected to renew their demand for aid this September in New York at a summit meeting of world leaders, who will attempt to make headway on a new treaty to limit greenhouse gases.

    Many rich countries argue that $100 billion a year is an unrealistic demand; it would essentially require them to double their budgets for foreign aid, at a time of economic distress at home. That argument has fed a rising sense of outrage among the leaders of poor countries, who feel their people are paying the price for decades of profligate Western consumption.

    Kind of ironic considering how much money we shower on the military, and the military expenses of protecting fossil fuel sources and distribution.

    Resist much, obey little. ~~Edward Abbey, via Walt Whitman

    by willyr on Mon Mar 31, 2014 at 11:25:41 AM PDT

    •  That $300b covered by U.S. increase in military $ (0+ / 0-)

      from the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute graph in MB's Overnight diary:

      Since the end of the Cold War, the lowest military spending by the U.S. (in 2014 dollars) was in 1998: $392 billion. In the last year for which figures are given, 2012, it was $692 billion.
      Coincidentally, the difference is exactly the amount cited in the Report.

      Resist much, obey little. ~~Edward Abbey, via Walt Whitman

      by willyr on Mon Mar 31, 2014 at 12:49:38 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The only way to profit off (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Calamity Jean

      of poor people is by keeping them poor.  I forget who said that, but there it is.  If you were asking a business to spend 100 billion dollars to start a bunch of payday loan mills with optional regulation, you'd have to beat them off with a stick.

      If water becomes undrinkable, the winners will be the guys who own the fresh water reserves.  They can demand any price for it.  They can make laws which prohibit people from collecting rainwater.  

      We will solve the problem of climate change if we can figure out how to work around the assholes in charge.  We can't change them, and we'll never get rid of them.  So, we'll have to do it in spite of them.

      "YOPP!" --Horton Hears a Who

      by Reepicheep on Mon Mar 31, 2014 at 02:22:40 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Isn't that the 'Murkin way? Always? The poor (0+ / 0-)

    always take it on the chin (or up certain other anatomical features) for the fat cat parasites when disaster strikes, as well as before disaster strikes and after disaster strikes.

    As the WalMart motto goes, Always!

    And, not satisfied to screw only the 'Murkin poor, 'Murka's rich likes to make sure as much of the world's poor as possible gets screwed too.

    U - S - A! U - S - A! U - S - A! 'Murka, FUCK yeah!

    "Bernie Madoff's mistake was stealing from the rich. If he'd stolen from the poor he'd have a cabinet position." -OPOL

    by blue in NC on Mon Mar 31, 2014 at 11:35:51 AM PDT

  •  ...and while you're at it, ... (0+ / 0-)

    you might want to send a thank you note to your sewage treatment plant for taking care of all of your shit. It doesn't end when you pull the lever.

    The next house I build will be a military industrial complex. It seems to be the only structure that is impervious to anything man, or nature, can throw at it.

    by glb3 on Mon Mar 31, 2014 at 11:36:17 AM PDT

  •  Going to read the full report right now. It's (6+ / 0-)

    the least I can do.

    If we really want to straighten out all this crap we really need to think about shit - Holy Shit.

    by John Crapper on Mon Mar 31, 2014 at 11:42:39 AM PDT

  •  remember those great Enviromental ads (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    BMScott, Vetwife

    from the 60's and 70's?

    Well picture this one:

    Climate Denial and Procrastination  (voice-over)

    It's like were stuck on the tracks,

    facing an on-coming Train,

    unconcerned, unflinching, unphased.

    We got time, time to jump out of the way.

    That Train is still a quarter mile away.

    But what this unconcerned public dare-devil,

    really fails to perceive is this:

    Right before that "last-minute" act to jump off tracks,

    That on-coming "Train" is slated to Derail.

    (It's those Heat-buckling tracks, they'll get you everytime.)

    AND that will be all she wrote,

    for the public that chose the ignore the simple Science

    hurtling "dangerously" towards them, undetered by their Denials.

    (RIP modern way of life.  
    Your Climate follows its own internal rules.
    And it's going to be a one, long, bumpy ride, from here on out.)

    Needs some poignant and tactful images of course,

    But all it took for me as a child to care about Littering and Pollution,
    was a single tear of a soulful Native American.

    and thus I was hooked.

    Sooner or later were going to have to: Trade in those Carbon Footprints ...

    by jamess on Mon Mar 31, 2014 at 11:49:12 AM PDT

    •  Bingo (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      and parents telling kids now... You can't go outside today honey..  Too Hot or too cold !!!! .and I can't let you swim in the gulf.. the oil and poison is still there.  In West Virginia's case.. Don't drink the water.. sweetie.

      We the People have to make a difference and the Change.....Just do it ! Be part of helping us build a veteran community online. United Veterans of America

      by Vetwife on Mon Mar 31, 2014 at 02:12:28 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The poor always get the brunt of enviro harm (7+ / 0-)

    but this is going to be the Environmental Justice Issue of modern history. Humane governments will take this into account in future planning/legislation…which means the U.S. will most certainly kick the poor to the curb.

    "You are not even aware of what is possible. The extent of their capabilities is horrifying."Edward Snowden -6.62, -6.92

    by CanyonWren on Mon Mar 31, 2014 at 11:54:59 AM PDT

  •  Excellent Diary (4+ / 0-)

    thank you

    Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell. --Edward Abbey

    by greenbastard on Mon Mar 31, 2014 at 11:58:33 AM PDT

  •  Thanks MB (8+ / 0-)

    This is what I wrote on my Facebook wall this morning regarding the report:

    I try to keep my climate change posts as rare and well-selected as possible, because I don't think anyone in my feed needs any convincing that this is happening. No doubt, there's a certain "apocalypse fatigue" that sets in when you read this stuff one too many times. However, this most recent IPCC report is worth reading, as scientists are putting the problem into human terms, and not in some distant grandchildreny future, but within most of our lifetimes, and really, right here and right now. The challenging part is that no matter how aware we are of the problem, for most of us there is not that much more we feel we can do personally. No matter how lightly we're trying to tread, we are part of an industrial infrastructure that was built on the assumption of unlimited supplies of fossil fuels. Americans, for example, have an ecological footprint that would take 5 planet Earths to sustain, and it's mostly because of structural things like poorly insulated buildings and urban designs that force most people to use their cars for even the most mundane daily chores. The way I see it, for anyone who cares about continued human existence on this beautiful planet and is willing to step out of their personal comfort zones, there are 3 things worthwhile engaging in to shift course of this Titanic we're on:

    1. Do as many things as possible to lower your personal footprint (insulate your house, walk whenever possible, etc)
    2. Lobby lawmakers and get involved with local and national campaigns to create more sustainable infrastructure, better energy policy, etc.
    3. Fight the fossil fuel companies whose modus operandi is to extract, sell, and burn as many fossil fuels as quickly as possible.

    Any other ideas?

    Ecology is the new Economy => Kosonomy

    by citisven on Mon Mar 31, 2014 at 12:04:22 PM PDT

    •  buy local nt (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      "a lie that can no longer be challenged becomes a form of madness" -Debord

      by grollen on Mon Mar 31, 2014 at 02:30:13 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I admire your optimism, (0+ / 0-)

      but if this is the Titanic, your suggestions may amount to asking the passengers to proceed in an orderly fashion to the promenade to buy high-priced thimbles for bailing out the lower decks.

      There is one effective remedial action that we could be taking immediately -- it is to start building nuclear reactors that use thorium as fuel.

      Now I'm not talking about your granddaddy's nuclear reactors, which comprise nearly the entire 'fleet' of designs in operation today. There are modern reactor designs that solve or greatly mitigate most of the operational risks and failures we have come to know and dread. And some of these new designs -- based on the use of thorium as the fuel -- offer a multitude of advantages and safety features that accrue throughout the entire process from mining to power generation to decommissioning to waste storage.

      And the US is among the top three countries worldwide for known thorium deposits, with enough to provide non-atmospheric-carbon electricity production for hundreds if not thousands of years.

      But... but... but... NUCLEAR!!! Chernobyl!!! Fukushima!!!

      I refer you to the above-mentioned report for a comparative study of related downsides.

      My δόγμα ate my Σ

      by jubal8 on Mon Mar 31, 2014 at 03:28:13 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Sec.Kerry, what does "act dramatically" mean 2KXL? (0+ / 0-)

    Are you killing it or not?

    Or trying to stall till after the election - because you're afraid of what the media would say?

    What if you're (i.e., Pres. Obama and you) forced to decide before the election?

  •  OK, this post motived me to act. (5+ / 0-)

    I've just submitted the following email, to our current leading Climate Action Advocate;  Under the routing Categories of:

    -- US Foreign Polices
       -- Global Issues
          -- Climate Change

    I whole-heartedly agree with Sec Kerry's sober warning on Climate Change. Refusing to take strong pro-active actions on this front, are in a word, short-sighted and fool-hearty.

    I've done some rough calculations, on what it would take to follow the EU's lead in its Desertec project, to leverage scrub deserts into productive Concentrated Solar Farms, using HVDC transmission lines to move the carbon-free-energy resource. Here are some rough rules of thumb for such a wholesale transformation away form America's traditional Fossil Fuel energy sources:

    -- 1719.5 miles² of Solar Area (41.5 miles x 41.5 miles) would provide for the Total US annual Oil Consumption (circa 2011), which is approximately the size of Hamilton County, New York.

     -- 658.8 miles² of hot desert (25.6 miles x 25.6 miles) would provide for that US annual Electricity consumption (circa 2010), which is approximately the size of Weber County, Utah.

     -- This works out to 995.7 ft² per home  (31.6 feet x 31.6 feet of desert solar) to continually provide for 1 home's average Electricity consumption (circa 2014).  

     -- According to the Desertec Project:  114,090 km² of desert (about 338 km × 338 km  [210 miles × 210 miles] ) covered with concentrating solar power plants, would provide as much electricity as the world is now currently using.

     -- In the USA, our DOI and BLM Depts have already designated 450 square miles of public desert lands, for such fast-track "Solar Energy Zones."  So only 208.8 miles² to go, for the USA to become Electricity-Carbon-Free via Desert Solar, assuming the current 17 SEZ tracks actually get effective developed, with national support.

    FYI, I've consolidated and explained these rough calculations in an illustrated post named:

    1 Square Mile = 4 Million Barrels

    It is this citizen's opinion that we need a rapid Apollo-style Desert Solar Farm effort if we are to indeed avoid the very costly and humanity impactful effects of Climate Change for our nation, and the world, in the long run.

    Thank you for your consideration of these "meager Energy facts,"


    {my real name}
    {my real city}

    Programmer Analyst, at {my real employer}

    ====  ====  ====

    Your Question has been Submitted

    Thank you for contacting the U.S. Department of State.

    EZ as Pie.  Hope he gets it.

    Sooner or later were going to have to: Trade in those Carbon Footprints ...

    by jamess on Mon Mar 31, 2014 at 12:53:07 PM PDT

  •  More on this (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Eric Nelson, Meteor Blades, BMScott

    "If Wall Street paid a tax on every “game” they run, we would get enough revenue to run the government on." ~ Will Rogers

    by Lefty Coaster on Mon Mar 31, 2014 at 12:53:32 PM PDT

  •  Where's the MSM spin line about IPCC report... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    ....from a few weeks back?

    Remember, how, apparently egged on by professional deniers, all the MSM already predicted the report to be "focused on the [imaginary] lull in warming"?


    Even if the report is still moderate vs. where we're still headed, it's still a good dose of reality injected into the morally-compromised spin.

    Try to spin that now as a "lull in warming", CNN/ABC/NBC/CBS

    (Fox will of course spin it, but that's a given).

    •  IPCC report co-chair Chris Field said of the... (5+ / 0-)

      so-called lull in response to a question at the press conference Sunday: “There is no pause.”

      And WMO chief Michel Jarraud noted that 13 of the last 14 years were the warmest years on record. “I really refuse to accept that we can talk about a pause.”

      Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

      by Meteor Blades on Mon Mar 31, 2014 at 01:38:08 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  MB, you are so wise. I do not agree that only the (0+ / 0-)

    poor will pay the price for the destruction of all things necessary for our social, environmental and species survival.

    Those with financial resources will also reap the whirlwind of fate as we pollute the resources necessary to sustain life as we know it.

  •  This report is very thorough and very disturbing.. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    BMScott, Meteor Blades

    ..just got through the summary..and the least affluent get hit first and hardest. Towards the end of the report on the statistics on wildlife it gets very real for every living thing.
    large scale extinctions:

    A large fraction of both terrestrial and freshwater species faces increased extinction risk under projected climate change during and beyond the 21st century, especially as climate change interacts with other stressors, such as habitat modification, over-exploitation, pollution, and invasive species (high confidence).
    ..that is one of the most alarming aspects to this report beyond the effects of water depletion, high heat zones, food production challenges and all the many other consequences.  
    And the charts showing the breadth of global impact. Nothing is left unaffected in bad ways. From the top polar caps to the farthest ocean. Everything/one is vulnerable over time.
    Climate-related hazards exacerbate other stressors, often with negative outcomes for livelihoods, especially for people living in poverty (high confidence).
    Just wish I could reverse the order of who is impacted on this though

    Thx MB  

    •  And wars (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Calamity Jean
      Violent conflict increases vulnerability to climate change (medium evidence, high agreement). Large-scale violent conflict harms assets that facilitate adaptation, including
      infrastructure, institutions, natural resources, social capital, and livelihood opportunities.16
      Too bad the neo-con contingent may not view this danger/vulnerabilty as an unwanted challenge
    •  The poor is paying a huge price right now (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Eric Nelson, Calamity Jean

      and I speak from experience.. My light bill average is 400 dollars.  I turn off lights, keep the AC at 77 and heat at 68
      But......Duke energy and it's affiliates are building a nuke plant and we are getting squeezed in Florida.  The heat is sweltering and the flooding is bad.  Same for Ga only they have huge gas due to the cold.
      I got flooded in Ga ..not Florida.. more than once from saturation from rainfall.  I ended up in the hospital.  I also had a toxic house that got stole so Fema decalred the darn thing flooded and we had mold.  So.... between sickness, high utility bills and cost of food... the poor is paying RIGHT now.

      We the People have to make a difference and the Change.....Just do it ! Be part of helping us build a veteran community online. United Veterans of America

      by Vetwife on Mon Mar 31, 2014 at 03:29:41 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  the comments at Breitbart are so depressing (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Calamity Jean

    I don't know if they are paid hacks or genuine believers but depressing either way.

  •  lets see how much the media talks about this, if (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Desert Scientist

    at all. I will be checking my local news later, to see if they even bother.

  •  One interesting aspect that I had not appreciated (7+ / 0-)

    is that rising sea levels can cause massive damage to low-lying areas just due to salination of soil. So the archipelagic nation of Kiribati has purchased farmland in Fiji to mitigate this effect. It isn't necessary for land to be submerged for it to become uninhabitable.

    Voting is the means by which the public is distracted from the realities of power and its exercise.

    by Anne Elk on Mon Mar 31, 2014 at 01:37:20 PM PDT

    •  Right. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Meteor Blades, Eric Nelson

      the higher sea level pushes the brine in from the edges and from below.

      This report is driving the hydrocarbon industry nuts. This means more money into the congress and more phoney experts trying to introduce doubt, and a full court media assault on any possible change of course on energy. They will stop at NOTHING to destroy the world for quick profit.

      I don't understand it, myself, as these guys are already so rich they don't have to drill any more. there's just no need of it. Go ahead, shut off the oil, we won't die.

      A true craftsman will meticulously construct the apparatus of his own demise.

      by onionjim on Mon Mar 31, 2014 at 01:49:51 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  If the oil was shut off right now, we would die. (0+ / 0-)

        But that's why it's so imperative that we use what oil we can fit into the ever-shrinking carbon budget and the infrastructure we have in place to transition away from it, and as rapidly as possible. If collapse occurs as the much-remarked-upon recent NASA report indicated was likely (or really, validated those of us saying that collapse was on the horizon for years now) before we are able to transition to renewables and a carbon-negative economy (as, for instance, outlined in digby's 12-step platform), we will be totally disorganized and focused on our own individual day-to-day survival rather than on our collective survival, capable in whatever feeble way we are now of working together to solve the biggest crisis humanity and the ecosphere has faced in Earth's history.

        "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." -Jiddu Krishnamurti

        by Panacea Paola on Mon Mar 31, 2014 at 05:30:32 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Why do I have a feeling that somewhere deep in (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Calamity Jean

    some corporate boardroom or high in some corporate jet, there's a conversation going that starts with, "Well, we just need to  . . . cull the flock, as it were. . . ."

    Think about the baby Jesus. Up in that tower, letting His hair down so that the three wise men could climb up and spin the dreddle and see if there's six more weeks of winter. -- Will and Grace

    by Rikon Snow on Mon Mar 31, 2014 at 01:41:51 PM PDT

  •  I know we're not supposed to advocate violence (0+ / 0-)

    but this is getting ridiculous. Do we just keep waiting and watch this slow-moving trainwreck screw us all because of these morons? And not lift a finger? We are at the point of no return. Politicians and world leaders have failed us and sold out to corporate interests. I don't really care what they claim to be concerned about in their cute little reports, they won't do enough in time to protect us. They've already proven this with their past decade of inaction.

    When do we start dismantling the CO2-emitting factories and blasting through anyone who stands in the way? We're running out of time.

    Is fheàrr fheuchainn na bhith san dùil

    by bull8807 on Mon Mar 31, 2014 at 01:45:17 PM PDT

  •  I already saw the reaction in the posts.... (6+ / 0-)

    on our former Gov. Bill Richardson's editorial on this subject.

    1. It ain't happening.
    2. Them scientists are making a bundle on this chicken little scare.
    3. It is happening and it will mean better crops.
    4. Al Gore is making a bundle off this.
    5. It's a socialist power grab by the U.N.
    6. It is happening and it is a natural change - nothing to worry about!
    7. Them scientists are just educated fools - anybody can tell you that humans can't change the climate.
    8. There's still ice at the poles, so much for that!
    9. A new ice age is coming on- it was predicted in the 1970s.
    10. Libruls are just idiots and anything they say is foolishness. Scientists are libruls - 'nuff said.  

    With that kind of mentality we are all doomed! You can't argue with stupid.

  •  This is the type of problem (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Desert Scientist

    that human beings are the WORST at solving.  

    As a species, nobody does it better than people in the face of an immediate, known danger.  We run into burning building to save kittens.  We are the species that runs towards the sirens and the screaming.

    But give us a problem of this magnitude, one that has variables and complexities, one that requires action without immediate reward, and we SUCK.  Try to get the entire planet to stick to a nutritious diet.  Hell, try to get everybody to shut off the tap water when they brush their teeth.  


    "YOPP!" --Horton Hears a Who

    by Reepicheep on Mon Mar 31, 2014 at 02:04:06 PM PDT

  •  Yay Winthrop! (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Meteor Blades, dharmasyd, Eric Nelson

    Don't know where the diarist got the photo, but that's right at the corner of Sea Foam and Winthrop Shore Drive, in Winthrop, Massachusetts.

    Grew up just a few feet from there.

    Winthrop is one of Boston Harbor's "front teeth" and is open to the east to the full Atlantic ocean.

    Winthrop beach has always had very large waves breaking on the beach walls. The old Wold Book Encyclopedia used to have a similar picture, and every time there's a storm local papers are full of waves breaking on the wall.

    When I was living there in 1978 for the Blizzard of '78, parts of Winthrop Shore Drive by the Highlands was totally washed out to sea.

    FWIW, the beach is currently going a massive restoration, with rip rap being added to help break the waves before they hit the beach, and tons of new sand being added.

    If you're in the area and want to stop by, the beach also serves as a bird sanctuary for Least Terns and Piping Plovers. It's a cool place to watch the birds.

    What separates us, divides us, and diminishes the human spirit.

    by equern on Mon Mar 31, 2014 at 02:11:51 PM PDT

  •  The Koch Brothers (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Meteor Blades, Eric Nelson

    The climate change debate is over. It is here, and it is going to get much worse.  I am old enough to remember the decades long debate about the health effects from smoking. The cigarette industry was very successful with denial, dragging out a few well-paid "experts" to dispute the science and spending millions to lobby certain congressmen.  Finally, after decades, and hundreds of thousands of additional cancer victims, the argument slowly (and quietly) went away. the evidence was so convincing that it became impossible to deny. We never heard an apology from the tobacco industry, or an acknowledgement that they were wrong.

    It seems the Koch Brothers have hired the same group of mind manipulators to convince the world that climate change is phony, and once again, the argument has now been going on too long. Only this time there is a big difference: Smokers cannot kill the planet. Climate change can.  The Koch Brothers are wealthy enough to survive all the climate ravages. It's too bad that the rest of humanity doesn't have that option.

    May science and reason prevail.

    by gkingster8 on Mon Mar 31, 2014 at 02:20:13 PM PDT

  •  2013 - lowest # of tornadoes and hurricanes (0+ / 0-)

    in years.

    Following the coldest US winter in over 100 years, we have stats showing hurricanes and tornado occurrences well below average.  2011 was high for both.

    Is it any wonder, it strains credulity for the average person when they see a title like the pic above describing "Intensifying storms "?

    I know counts don't always tell the tale of intensity, but in the case of hurricanes "none" were considered major.

    2013 had lowest hurricane count since 1982

    The 2013 Atlantic storm season has proved one of the quietest in decades with the lowest number of hurricanes since 1982 and none of them considered 'major', according to insurance broker Willis Re.
    Tornadoes - Annual 2013
    Similar to 2012, tornado activity across the U.S. during 2013 was below average. During 2013, there were 742 confirmed tornadoes during the January–September period, with 149 preliminary tornado reports still pending for October–December according to NOAA's Storm Prediction Center. This gives 2013 a preliminary tornado count of 891. Depending on the final confirmation rate, this could be the slowest tornado year since 1989 when 856 tornados were confirmed. The 1991-2010 annual tornado average is 1,253. Despite the below-average number of annual tornadoes, there were several large and destructive tornadoes and tornado outbreaks that led to significant damage and loss of life. There were 54 tornado-related fatalities and five severe weather and tornado outbreaks that resulted in at least one billion U.S. dollars in damage each.
    Granted, the tornado count is USA only, but that's where they hit most.  And, the hurricane count is the whole Atlantic hurricane season.

    Please don't label me a denier.. I know man has contributed in part at least to global climate shifts..  But models and predictions have not panned out, and put a bad light to reports such as these in light of the above facts.

    •  Look at the Tornado graphic; if today was based on (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Calamity Jean

      1960 activity last year would have had a very high number of tornados. The long term trend is rising with significant
      variability. Does this prove that in 30 years the number of tornados will double? No, we have to wait for confirmation but it should even worry you.
      Yes 2013 was calmer but what about 2012 Superstorm Sandy or Typhoon Hayian? Or the 2013-14 Polar Vortex?

      If this were the stock market which is proven to be quite random you'd be gobbling up whatever crap Rick Santelli
      or Jim Cramer was predicting for the next wave, but climate scientist predicting anything must be bunk.

    •  Looking only at tornadoes and hurricanes... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JJ In Illinois too narrow. Nobody ever said the extremes would be linear.

      Take a look at this World Meteorological Organization list from my diaryUN: Extreme weather soars, Australia's record heat was 'virtually impossible' without human impacts:

      • Atmospheric carbon dioxide reached record levels in May 2013. Methane reached a record high in 2012. (No compilation of figures for all of 2013 is yet available.)

      • The oceans reached the highest levels ever recorded.

      • Japan and Korea had their warmest summers on record.

      • A place in South Africa had the hottest temperature ever recorded anywhere in Africa for March (117°F).

      • Most of Siberia had an extra cold winter, 3.6°-5°F below average.

      • The European part of the Russian Federation had its warmest November on record

      • Greenland had the highest air temperature ever recorded there: 78.6°F.

      • Argentina had the hottest December on record.

      •Very hot temperatures combined with strong winds and drought led to the largest wildfire in Colorado history.

      • The eastern inland part of Iceland recorded its coldest May ever, -6°F.

      • Austria set a new high temperature for August (104.9°F), The same day in Bratislava, Slovakia, the temperature hit 102.6°F, the hottest since records started being kept in 1850.

      • The monsoon was early this year and contributed to flooding that killed thousands in India.

      • California saw its driest year since records started being kept 119 years ago.

      • Northeastern Brazil had its worst drought in half a century while in the south of the country, seven cities recorded their most precipitation ever in December with one city, Aimores, receiving four times its average precipitation for the month.

      • During flooding throughout central Europe, the Passau River in Germany rose to its highest level since 1501.

      • 17 inches of snow fell in 24 hours in North Dakota, a one-day record. Duluth, Minnesota, and Rapid City, South Dakota, had their snowiest Aprils on record (51 inches and 43 inches respectively).

      • Snow fell in Cairo for the first time since 1901. Jordan, Syria and Israel all received record amounts of snow, and the temperature fell to -3°F in Shoubak, Jordan, on Dec. 15, the coldest day ever recorded in the country.

      • Typhoon Phailin forced 1.1 million people to evacuate in the Indian states of Odisha and Andrha Pradesh, one of the largest evacuations in the nation's history.

      •In El Reno, Oklahoma, witnesses saw the widest tornado ever recorded: 2.7 miles.

      Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

      by Meteor Blades on Mon Mar 31, 2014 at 04:09:32 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Weather.. (0+ / 0-)

        Someone keeps telling me weather is not climate..

        Yet, all of those datum are weather..  discreet single day/week phenomena mostly.

        Climate scientists have been predicting warmer and warmer winters in North America..  yet we have the coldest interequinoctial period in 100 years.  Is that weather?  Hell if I know, but, to me, it sure as hell weighs more heavily than daily weather phenomena/records.

        Records are broken daily.

        I guess what I am trying to say is that I have yet to see a pattern that conclusively points to climate change besides a very slow rise in temperature.  All of the items you pointed out are within normal variability.

        So is the 100 year cold spell we have just experienced.

        The problem with looking for definitive data, is that when you find it, it's probably too late.

        That is why I have always been in favor of a judicious approach to carbon output.. i.e. do what we can as fast as we can..  nuclear is my choice as a stop-gap while we build renewables.

        But the U.S., while a big producer of greenhouse gasses, is not the biggest problem.  We have no control over China and other emerging nations.  They are the biggest polluters.  And, our economy should not be  destroyed by regulations made to make up for their pollution.

        •  Per capita, only 11 nations surpass... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          JJ In Illinois, Radiowalla

          ...the U.S. on emissions. While China and India are still adding more emissions each year and the U.S. less, per person it's different: 7.7 tons of carbon gas each from China and the EU in 2012; America emitted 17 tons per person.

          As for records being broken every day, yes, but there are a lot more of them happening now. To say that we have a new record hottest day or hottest month by definition puts that day or month outside the range of "normal variability" for that day or month.

          Alaska is in North America. It had a very warm winter for the very same reason Canada had a very cold, snowy one: the skewed jet stream.

          We agree about one thing. We've should get away from burning carbon quickly.

          Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

          by Meteor Blades on Tue Apr 01, 2014 at 04:20:16 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  I'm poor. I'm old. I live on the coast. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Pakalolo, Meteor Blades

    That's 3 strikes...
    But I'm not out.  
    I intend to phone Republican Congress Critters and attempt to engage a conversation on this issue.  It will be a test of my patience and civility as I attempt to bring a modicum of correctness to their god-smacked brains.

    If anyone wants to join me, here's the toll free Congressional switchboard:

    I'll look for more toll free numbers and post them here if/when found.  

    "The only thing needed for evil to succeed is for good people to do nothing." Hannah Arendt

    by dharmasyd on Mon Mar 31, 2014 at 02:55:34 PM PDT

    •  Toll Free Congressional Switchboard... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Calamity Jean
      Thanks to Thom Hartmann for providing these on his website.

      And BIG Thanks to MB.  I knew, when I read about this IPCC yesterday, that you would promptly pounce upon it.
      Big Thanks!

      "The only thing needed for evil to succeed is for good people to do nothing." Hannah Arendt

      by dharmasyd on Mon Mar 31, 2014 at 03:17:19 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Delay is also denial. YOU bet. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dharmasyd, Eric Nelson, Meteor Blades

    And as I mentioned yesterday, better late than never as Showtime April 13 launches SEASON 1 of Years of Living Dangerouslyaimed to wake up Americans to the realities of climate change.

    This report is on the scale of terrifying which a thousands of meteors enroute to crash through Earth's atmosphere and yet STILL people sleep.

    At this point I believe the magnitude of the crisis is capable of generating mass hysteria at least among those young parents whose kids are going to be of age in 2036.

    And whats missing is local education to engage them in action now.  

    No better place to put Hansen's Why I must speak about Climate Change TED talk

    and for a shout out to Richard Heinberg's Post Carbon Institute Resilience as well as Earth Island's Bay Localize Community Resilience Toolkit

    Perhaps Transition Towns were ahead of the curve in attempting to gain foothold here in the US. We tried to begin one in MV but the interest just wasn't there.

    RIP Nelson Mandela

    by boatsie on Mon Mar 31, 2014 at 02:57:56 PM PDT

  •  Humans are going to go extinct (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Calamity Jean

    And we're gonna bring it on our own heads

    We have no desire to offend you -- unless you are a twit!

    by ScrewySquirrel on Mon Mar 31, 2014 at 02:58:42 PM PDT

  •  I predict blaming the poor for global warming (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Meteor Blades, Calamity Jean

    will become a new right wing talking point in about 10 years.
    We simply can't afford a social safety because of global warming!

  •  Illinois carbon dioxide injection sequestration (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dharmasyd, Vetwife, Calamity Jean


    MEDIA CONTACT: Peter Cassell, 312-886-6234,



    U.S. EPA Seeks Public Comment on Proposed Carbon Sequestration Permits in Southern Illinois

    CHICAGO (March 31, 2014) - The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency is accepting public comment on proposed permits that would allow the FutureGen Industrial Alliance Inc. to inject carbon dioxide deep underground near Jacksonville, Illinois. This process – known as “carbon sequestration” – is a means of storing carbon dioxide, a greenhouse gas that contributes to climate change. The proposed permits are the nation’s first Class VI underground injection permits for carbon sequestration.  EPA’s public comment period opens today and closes May 15, 2014; a public hearing will be held on May 7, 2014.

    FutureGen plans to capture carbon dioxide produced by a coal-fueled power plant formerly operated by Ameren Energy Resources in Meredosia, Illinois. The captured carbon dioxide would then be transported and injected deep underground via the proposed wells, which would be constructed in Morgan County. FutureGen’s goal is to capture and inject 1.1 million metric tons of carbon dioxide each year for 20 years. Sequestering 1.1 million metric tons of carbon dioxide each year is the equivalent of eliminating carbon emissions from 232,000 cars.

    EPA’s hearing will begin at 7 p.m. on May 7 at MacMurray College, 447 E. College Ave, Jacksonville. Oral and written comments will be accepted at the hearing.  Two question-and-answer sessions will be held at MacMurray College before the public hearing: from 11 a.m. to 1 p.m. and from 5 p.m. to 7 p.m.

    Draft documents and information about the public hearing are available at the Jacksonville Public Library, 201 W. College Ave., or on EPA’s website at  Comments can be made online at or mailed to Jeffrey McDonald, U.S. EPA (WU-16J), 77 W. Jackson Blvd., Chicago, IL 60604-3590. For questions or additional information contact EPA’s toll-free line at 800-621-8431, 8:30 a.m. to 4:30 p.m. (weekdays).  

    •  With the current problems... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Calamity Jean

      ...we are having with the undergroudn (nuclear waste) storage at WIPP in New Mexico, I would like to hear more on possible dangerous consequences.   WIPP was supposed to be invulnerable for 10s of thousands of years.  But it only lasted a little over 25 years.  OOPS!

      "The only thing needed for evil to succeed is for good people to do nothing." Hannah Arendt

      by dharmasyd on Mon Mar 31, 2014 at 03:28:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  We could easily be 100% carbon (0+ / 0-)

    free within 10 years if we'd simply decide together to spend the necessary money ($1 trillion over 10 years should just about do it). But We, progressives included, are too afraid that we are going to run out of digital fiat dollar measurements.

    Oh well, better to demonize the Cons and pretend that if only those mean republicans would let us tax rich people more, then we'd be able to afford saving our way of life. As if US dollars came from rich people, what a laugher!

    "Sorry kids we gave up to the Japanese and Germans because we ran out of the fiat currency that we invented out of nothing and that only we can create"

    How embarrassing if our Grandparents said this to us right?

    Well, We are currently doing this exact same thing right now, the only difference being that the enemy is not our German brothers and sisters, its carbon dioxide.

    "The Earth is my country and Science my religion" Christiaan Huygens. The gold standard ended on August 15, 1971, its time we start acting like it. If we can afford full employment killing Germans, we can afford full employment during peace-time.

    by Auburn Parks on Mon Mar 31, 2014 at 03:31:08 PM PDT

    •  If you're saying $1 trillion ANNUALLY... (0+ / 0-)

      ...I agree. But if you're saying $1 trillion over a decade, nuh-uh.

      Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

      by Meteor Blades on Mon Mar 31, 2014 at 03:59:19 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Now we're talking. You may be right, I may be righ (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Calamity Jean

        but we cant know until we try. And we can't try until We talk about the possibility. And the possibility is never brought up because of the reasons I mentioned.

        With all that said....

        I wonder which of our guesses would be more accurate?

        Let me lay out a few points for my side:

        1) Govt spending is always be just a part of the overall spending a given program will generate. For example, If the Govt announced a $100 billion per year investment into solar and wind power, that amount of money will be multiplied by all the private sector investment needed to make a profit servicing that increased demand. And make no mistake, $100 B is ALOT of demand. Last year we spent just over $4B, so that would be 25X more spending.

        Keep in mind that with $4B in Govt spending on renewables last year, this was leveraged up additional $30 B in private sector investment.

        So a 25X increase in Govt spending to $100B would most likely be followed by even more private sector profit seekers.

        2) The classic economic example that as demand and production increase, prices due to manufacturing efficiencies generally come down. Solar and wind are already competitive in some areas and with this much increased investment, its only a matter of time until its cheaper than gas everywhere and at that point the market will do alot of the heavy lifting.

        "The Earth is my country and Science my religion" Christiaan Huygens. The gold standard ended on August 15, 1971, its time we start acting like it. If we can afford full employment killing Germans, we can afford full employment during peace-time.

        by Auburn Parks on Mon Mar 31, 2014 at 05:00:23 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Renewables need an upgraded transmission... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Calamity Jean

          ...grid, we need an infrastructure that will electrify all the nation's railroads, getting more electric cars on the road via tax incentives, a mass of charging stations at public facilities for electric vehicles, massive expansion of intracity and intercity public transit (buses, light rail, heavy rail and high-speed rail). At the very least, hundreds of billions each year for the first few years.

          Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

          by Meteor Blades on Mon Mar 31, 2014 at 05:51:09 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •   You are absolutely right blades. So much would (0+ / 0-)

            go into becoming 100% renewable. I was just trying to point out that public investment spending naturally gets leveraged up by the private sector as private dollars look to invest in that growth area and try and capture this growth as profit.

            So what if its $1 trillion over 5 years instead of 10? Inflation from too much spending in the economy is so far away $200 B a year in new deficit spending would barely even budget the needle seeing as median household income is basically 50% of where it would be had it continued to follow its historical path in accordaance with increasing productivity levels.

            And not to mention that we can save our current way of life for future generations, so theres that too.

            "The Earth is my country and Science my religion" Christiaan Huygens. The gold standard ended on August 15, 1971, its time we start acting like it. If we can afford full employment killing Germans, we can afford full employment during peace-time.

            by Auburn Parks on Mon Mar 31, 2014 at 06:49:46 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  Income inequality trumps the weather (0+ / 0-)

    The main issue for the average American is not climate change, but stagnant wages and income inequality. Expensive climate change regulations dictated by jet-setting alarmist UN/EU bureaucrats will make life even harder for the little guy (higher gas prices, higher light bills) and will not win elections.

    I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered.

    by spoolermooler on Mon Mar 31, 2014 at 03:48:04 PM PDT

    •  Income inequality and job-related issues... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Back In Blue, Calamity Jean

      ...are a big deal. But you're way off the mark if you believe the 309 scientists who wrote the IPCC report, and the thousands who have published peer-reviewed papers on climate change, are alarmists. This is a conservative report.

      If you think regulating carbon emissions is expensive, wait until you see how costly NOT regulating them turns out to be.

      Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

      by Meteor Blades on Mon Mar 31, 2014 at 04:06:37 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Who are the poor in this report? (0+ / 0-)

    Assuming that this is from a global perspective, people in the US need to realize that none of us is truly poor compared to the poorest of the world.  That's not too minimize the plight of poor Americans and the poor of the West in general for certainly they will face a much more difficult future than the wealthy.  However, just as the poor in the undeveloped world already suffer unthinkably compared to us, imagine what the future holds for them.

    America, where a rising tide lifts all boats! Unless you don't have a boat...uh...then it lifts all who can swim! Er, if you can't swim? SHAME ON YOU!

    by Back In Blue on Mon Mar 31, 2014 at 05:20:31 PM PDT

  •  Great summary (0+ / 0-)

    This is one of the best synopsis efforts out there, in any media.  Really great.  I am sharing the link to this diary.  

    hope that the idiots who have no constructive and creative solutions but only look to tear down will not win the day.

    by Stuart Heady on Mon Mar 31, 2014 at 06:52:48 PM PDT

  •  So what effect would (0+ / 0-)

    evaluating costs at 7°F or 10°F have on or for Joe Citizen that evaluating them at 2°F hasn't?  What additional information or impetus would such an analysis provide people they don't already have?  What hasn't been said in 25 years of reports that would make everybody drop every other concern they have and focus solely on climate change?   Activists already consistently say climate change will end civilization.  What's left? Or maybe those questions come from the wrong foundation.

    Americans are experiencing insecure affluence - yes we're wealthy relative to the rest of the world, but stagnating wages and job insecurity generate more concern than big problems that will occur on a longer timespan than housing and feeding our families.  The climate legislation of 2009 couldn't have been introduced at a worse time in the previous 30 years coming at the height of the Great Recession.  The same basic rule applies to developing countries: increase their perceived well-being and they'll have resources to devote to extraneous, abstract topics like climate change.

    Now Obama administration folks are deniers?  Really?  How is climate-shaming them working?

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