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Originally posted to Comics on Tue Apr 01, 2014 at 02:50 PM PDT.

Also republished by Daily Kos.

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Comment Preferences

  •  You call that safe, Clancy? n/t (6+ / 0-)

    Float like a manhole cover, sting like a sash weight! Clean Coal Is A Clinker!

    by JeffW on Tue Apr 01, 2014 at 02:55:02 PM PDT

  •  And of those 5000+, how many were . . . Er . . . (8+ / 0-)


    Think about the baby Jesus. Up in that tower, letting His hair down so that the three wise men could climb up and spin the dreddle and see if there's six more weeks of winter. -- Will and Grace

    by Rikon Snow on Tue Apr 01, 2014 at 03:20:51 PM PDT

    •  Puts a new perspective on.... (5+ / 0-)

      why the TV show Law and Order is a huge favorite among older white people.

       Not to veer onto another topic, but several episodes endorsed police committing torture to "find a child victim" or whatever, the old ticking clock rationale.  Who knows how many people have been morally swayed by these pro-torture (for "good" reasons) shows (like 24 and many others).

      •  Excellent Point (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        "Law And Order" and its various spin-offs routinely show police violating the civil rights of suspects, abusing people at will, and generally ignoring every law or policy they find convenient to at any given moment.  They never end up being challenged for their behavior, and they always end up "getting their man".  Occasionally they "get the wrong man" early in an episode and subject him/her to the standard abuse and violations, but that's forgotten by the end of the show.

        In real life, the victims do not forget.  At least, those who are still alive.  Though the abuse of power by police shown as "right" in "Law and Order" is, one must admit, a more or less realistic depiction of police behavior.

        Those of you who have seen "Law And Order" will be aware that they never seem to find a suspect in some upscale "association neighborhood" or the like.

        •  Well, that last sentence isn't *quite* true (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          But, the majority of the time it is.
          They get their token rich criminal to show up once in a blue moon.

          But, without such popular entertainment to miseducate the populace, how else could we have our scofflaw enforcement ignore the shit out of our Constitution?
          And of course, denounce any who object.

    •  Yes, good that you ask... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Rikon Snow, Azubia, raspberryberet

      and another question is...  how many of those 5,000 were rich ?

  •  Police are outta control using excessive force on (7+ / 0-)

    a regular basis.  Even when it doesn't result in death, they too often feel the need to really hurt people when they arrest them.  I don't know if its poor training or a power trip, but this needs to stop.

    The only thing we have to fear is fear itself - FDR. Obama Nation. -6.13 -6.15

    by ecostar on Tue Apr 01, 2014 at 03:21:10 PM PDT

  •  Who's watching the watchers? (5+ / 0-)

    "Onward through the fog!" - Oat Willie

    by rocksout on Tue Apr 01, 2014 at 03:21:52 PM PDT

  •  The only way to stop a bad man with a gun (4+ / 0-)

    Is with a good man with a gun.  Wayne LaPierre, NRA

    What a Stupid, non-sensical quote.  

    The only way to stop an unarmed kid is with a bad man with a bad law and a gun.  George Zimmerman.

    Voters should select people to represent them in their government. People in government should not select people who may vote!

    by NM Ray on Tue Apr 01, 2014 at 03:22:38 PM PDT

  •  Recently in Sonoma a man barricaded himself in (7+ / 0-)

    his house. The police used a tank to get him out. A tank.

    If police have weapons of war, they'll look for reasons to use them. That doesn't mean the police are especially prone to violence, this is human nature.

    The weaponization of America makes mass destruction possible for anybody with the inclination.

    •  I think that people prone to violence are (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      koseighty, Mannie, jck, raspberryberet

      attracted to jobs where they can act violently.

      Just from the people in my circle, I can tell you, the kindergarten teachers and nurses never are the ones that say "Oh well. Shit happens!" when someone is inadvertently killed in an exchange with the police.

      Just an observation.

      © grover

      So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not. -- Me.

      by grover on Tue Apr 01, 2014 at 03:43:33 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I want to write "oppressors always have their (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lgmcp, QuiteDragon, DebFrmHell

    Thugs" but that's really unfair.  I know some cops who are really good guys and gals who are trying to make their city safer.  Life is so fucking complicated.

    Think about the baby Jesus. Up in that tower, letting His hair down so that the three wise men could climb up and spin the dreddle and see if there's six more weeks of winter. -- Will and Grace

    by Rikon Snow on Tue Apr 01, 2014 at 03:32:28 PM PDT

    •  I guess I'm trying to say "look higher and (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      lgmcp, raspberryberet

      Follow the money."

      Think about the baby Jesus. Up in that tower, letting His hair down so that the three wise men could climb up and spin the dreddle and see if there's six more weeks of winter. -- Will and Grace

      by Rikon Snow on Tue Apr 01, 2014 at 03:34:06 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I think a fair number of folks go IN (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Rikon Snow, Mannie, raspberryberet

      with a sincere intention to "protect and serve".   But it would take superhuman ability to effectively shut out all influence from an always-authoritarian and too-often callous and corrupt organizational culture.  Certainly we know that soldiers come back with PTSD, and cops have got to be affected by constant exposure to the seam underside of society.  Nonetheless it's their duty, and their leadership's duty, to constantly rise above it.  We're quick to agree that teachers who are scarred enough to learn to hate kids, had better get the hell out of teaching.  Same goes for cops who learn to hate citizens.


      "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

      by lgmcp on Tue Apr 01, 2014 at 03:41:51 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Go along to get along? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        Family needs the paycheck maybe leads to a blurring of boundaries over time?

        Could it just be that simple for some of our good cops?

        •  For the top cops, sure, (0+ / 0-)

          but for the rookies, the pay is pretty minimal for what I'd consider unpleasant and dangerous work -- I think in our town they start around $13/hour and it takes a decade or more to bust $20/hr.  But I suspect the power is hard to give up, once you get used to having it, even for folks who might have been intending to use it for good.

          "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

          by lgmcp on Tue Apr 01, 2014 at 07:48:12 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  needs a link so here it is (5+ / 0-)

    The numbers are eye opening. The Justice Department, which keeps all kinds of statistics on violent crime, does not tally up individuals killed annually by police. But by combing public news reports and other sources, the Justice Policy Institute has estimated that police officers in the U.S. killed 587 people in 2012 alone. Over the course of a decade, they’ve tallied more than 5,000 people in the U.S. during that period—far more than the number of people who lost their lives in acts officially classified as terrorism in roughly the same span.
    But officer safety takes priority over "protect and serve." That isn't because the jobs has become more dangerous.
    The job of being a police officer has become safer too, as the number of police killed by gunfire plunged to 33 last year, down 50% from 2012, to its lowest level since, wait for it, 1887, a time when the population was 75% lower than it is today.

    I'm a Vietnam Era vet. I'm also an Erma Bombeck Era vet. When cussing me out and calling me names please indicate which vet you would like to respond to your world changing thoughts.

    by Just Bob on Tue Apr 01, 2014 at 03:38:39 PM PDT

  •  That video I saw on the Albuquerque incident (4+ / 0-)

    made me yell at the TV like a lunatic. My wife got upset with my upset, so noisy was I.

    And the cartoon does it right.  Cops are visibly pissed off when the public shows them no respect. They wonder why we don't like trigger-happy fascist authoritarians who, "fearing for their lives from a pocket-knife wielding non-complying dangerous suspect," pump a desperate, frightened homeless man full of slugs.

    And don't worry, cop defenders. They'll get off.  

    "The soil under the grass is dreaming of a young forest, and under the pavement the soil is dreaming of grass."--Wendell Berry

    by Wildthumb on Tue Apr 01, 2014 at 03:40:54 PM PDT


      My good friend who I grew up with had a son in 1979. His son Alex was a good student, volunteered with community service (Meals on wheels and renovating houses for old and poor), worked in the construction trades after school and summers, and had a bright path forward as an architect or engineer. He rebelled against his parents by not drinking or doing any drugs that we know of, he didn't even smoke weed. He was at Drexel and  had a girlfriend and was a good kid.

      Alex was shot dead while driving by the Philadelphia police in 1999.

       I taught him how to drive a stick shift, he was a good driver. We don't know what happened. They claimed he threatened an officer with his car.

      This was murder,no trial, no justice.


  •  How many thousands pepper sprayed (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    beaten and or shot with bean bags, tasered and terrorized in spite of their constitutional rights? (Or because they tried to assert those rights?)

  •  Too many cops (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Crime is down in the USA and yet there are more cops on the street than ever.  Too many cops with too little to keep them busy.   I sometimes consider law enforcement is a public works program for returning veterans....who are often suffering from PTSS and should be the last people in the world to serve as cops.   The Drug War makes work and creates profits and graft while old cases of rape and murder are never solved or worked.  Rape kits sit on shelves for years with no investigations while an anonymous tip about a possible drug violation mobilizes the whole department.   Profit drives law enforcement as well as graft and corruption.   Incompetence and brutality are covered up and the pubic is placed in serious danger by rogue cops with mental health problems.
    If the drug war  would end tomorrow, it would be a first major step at recovering the rule of law and eliminating the corruption in government....but it will take a very long time to fix all that damage.

    •  Of course the drug case gets first (0+ / 0-)

      dibbies: money, property or maybe vehicles can be confiscated during a drug bust.  What can cops confiscate during a re-exam of a rape or murder case?  Nada.

      I worked 26 years in police dispatch and every year got less and less enamored of the cops.  Not all, but some, lie, cheat, and perjure themselves to get someone convicted.  Some are pure pigs, and not in a nice way.

      On a planetary scale, habitat and life are interchangeable.

      by libbys mom on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 05:17:52 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Durham NC. (2+ / 0-)

    It is now very dangerous to be a latin in the custody of the Police in Durham NC. There have been 4 latin men that have cause a small case of the dead while in care of the Durham Police.

    The police have militarized not because of the danger of the public,  but to control us.

    "help police" Catch-22 Joseph Heller 1961

    by rageagnstmach on Tue Apr 01, 2014 at 11:23:58 PM PDT

  •  How many? (0+ / 0-)

    How many of those 5000 were innocent, and how many were killed after drawing a weapon on an officer?

  •  The LEOs had better be damn thankful... (0+ / 0-)

    they get this much thanks after the years of killing innocent bystanders by the dozens.  They seem to forget that the general population OUTnumbers them by a huge percentage!

  •  Police Killings (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Having spent a career in Federal Law Enforcement, some of that time investigating the police for civil rights violations and brutality, I can tell you that if I had a problem, the police would be the last people I would call.  First, we rarely cooperated with the police because a large number of them were corrupt.  Some of them were just criminals but many were untrustworthy because they would out our operations to their superiors who were corrupt, either monetarily or politically.  What compounded the problem was that the "honest" cops knew what was going on but wouldn't say anything, making them as guilty as their mates.  Second, many police officers now seem to be looking for opportunities to use their weapons against anyone, armed or unarmed.  Think about it, they practice monthly, year after year, and some of them are just dying to take their weapon out and use it.  In contrast, we often went an entire career without using deadly force.  Cops are scared people, and just like a scared dog, they are ready to bite at the first opportunity.  We knew the police mantra--that if involved in a shooting scrape the response was always, "I was in fear of my life."  Most police are undereducated, either failed athletes or from one or two failed careers before deciding to get into law enforcement.  For them, respect is everything--don't dis them, many can't take it.  Another thing you can count on is that police always lie.  A police investigation involves identifying the first logical suspect and then closing your mind to all other possibilities.  Police work is driven entirely by statistics--how many cases you close and how quickly, so as to keep the politicians happy.  You can count on police to lie the majority of the time, mostly to protect their corrupt and violent acts.  Cops plant evidence, give drugs to informants and do all kinds of nefarious things, many of which you see on TV every night.  Police are now a highly militarized group that thinks, its us or them.  How's that for community policing?

  •  NCIS (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Last week I watched half of the last episode of NCIS that I will ever watch.  Guest NCIS agent Scott Bakula violently dragged a person across the hood of a car because that person didn't show the proper respect.  Agent Gibs looked on with a smile.

    At that point, I turned off the TV and went back to my computer.

  •  That 5000+, (0+ / 0-)

     a big number, yes, but not all without a good reason, self defense.  You have to wonder how many fired first and most? You shoot at a cop, you are pretty apt to be shot back at, with full intent to stop the shooting, permanently.

  •  That comes to over (0+ / 0-)

    50 people a year. Isn't one person per year one too many?

    What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty? Isn't that a Constitutional concept or have the police forgotten that. This is the only country in the western world where walking away from the cops can be construed as being guilty of a crime.

  •  I used to work in government... (0+ / 0-)

    and for over 20 years, I had dealings with over 1,000 police officers on several different levels.

    The VAST majority of those police officers were good, decent human beings who cared about their fellow humans and wanted only to protect and serve them.

    Less than 1% of them, however, were psychotic individuals who were using their jobs as a means to make people in general very miserable, and a few of those psychos were infatuated/obsessed with the potential opportunity to shoot and kill someone.

    I'm not sure if these few officers started out with that intent, but over the years, they sure got that way...

    I do not know how/why these psychopaths are allowed to become police officers. Governments need to figure out how to properly screen applicants, and keep them out of otherwise benevolent police organizations. They also need to constantly monitor their officers to look for changes in attitude/disposition, and get them out of the force before they commit murder.

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