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#CVII of My Stupid State

My state is weird.

A 35-year old rightwing conservative, Jacob A. Rush, is running for Congress in FL-3.  He is your typical tea party guy... claims he's all about family values (implying his opponents aren't), intolerant, a "practicing" Christian, loves guns, hates abortion, preaches his love of the Constitution, and says he's a "straight shooter".

In announcing his candidacy, he wrote:

"Voters in North Central Florida are tired of being disappointed and embarrassed by their congressman.”

Amen.

So anyhoo....here's a forcible sodomy/cocaine fantasy he wrote as a Vampire and founding member of the Kindred of Gainesville:

At first I thought you were just stupid and I wanted to stick my dick in your mouth to shut you up while I snorted a line off my new machete that was blessed by Rui (sic) but then I remembered that you were typing so my dick would really have to be in your hands to keep you from typing but since you are walking in Omaha that’s not really realistic right now.

I’m sorry, I tried.

Rae tells me that you are a Maiden, and it’s your job to be kind of stupid and that I’m not supposed to have intercourse with Maidens.

You shouldn’t believe everything that people tell you or you’re going to end up naked and sore, tied to the floor of a van marked “Free Candy.”

And stop letting people torpor (sic) you.

I guess I should back up.

Jacob Rush, until late last year, was a member of Mind's Eye and a founding member of the Kindred of Gainesville, which:

takes on the personas of vampires and other supernatural beings (known as Kindred), dealing with night-to-night struggles “against their own bestial natures, hunters, and each other"

Members seem to take this group with varying degrees of seriousness.  Some seem to be really into the occult, others seem to be just role-playing (which is what Jacob said its really all about since it was just discovered).  

If that is the case, he was sure in a frenzy to delete photos from his account on the group's wiki page.  He apparently didn't get to all of them in time.  The St. Petersblog posted them, which included:  

  • Burning books
  • Aiming shotguns at dogs
  • Dressed as a vampire
  • Dressed as a demon
  • Satanic symbolism
  • Being chained and gagged
  • Bloody angel wings  

One photo uploaded in 2009 and taken down recently was titled "Put on my Rape Face".

Here's the thing.  Except for that last one, which is downright wrong, I'm not going to knock him for his nocturnal activities.  Its America.  People are free to engage in any stupid, bizarre crap they want.  You think satanic symbolism is "cool"?  Fine.  Your lifestyle.  Your freedom.  I'm not your mom. (Although I'm sure I share her disappointment in your choices.)

And in this state, we elect criminals to high office-- people who literally steal from sick people and proactively pursue policies and laws that kill their citizenry. So dressing up like a devil-worshipper is insignificant to me considering our elected leaders actually worship the devil.  Once you get elected, (and who are we kidding, this is Florida), I 'd like the opportunity to throw the picture of you in your black robes/black contacts in the face of one of my condescending "Christian" critics who is dumb enough to think he is doing God's work.  (Voting for kids to starve and die from lack of healthcare?  Hey, why not just elect a satan worshipper?  Oh right....ya did..)  

In other words, go nuts Jacob.

But if you are running for Congress on  a platform for denying civil rights to fellow Americans because of their supposed "immoral" lifestyle... you better be damn well-prepared to be called on your BS.

You got that, Jacob?  (I'm sorry, the Forsaken "Archbishop Kettering")

 photo jeckyll-and-hyde-russ-300x311_zps942d3d79.jpg


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6:14 PM PT: Here's his campaign video from his website.  Quite a different picture:

7:33 PM PT: Some (well 2 people) are accusing me of hating on LARPing (live action role play). Most LARPing doesn't use occult themes, but whatever. Even if that's all this is, that's not my issue with the guy.  As I replied, he decided to run a hypocritical campaign that says he should be in a position to make moral judgments on people's lives (i.e., deny women's access to birth control, deny people's access to health care, marriage equality, etc.) because he claims the religious and moral high ground.  If you do that knowing you wrote about cocaine and rape fantasies, posted "putting on my rape face", and dressed up like an occult member, you're damn right I'm going to throw that back in your face.

7:33 PM PT: Dark Lord Jacob is running to the right of birther Ted Yoho.  Yoho is the GOP incumbent who claimed that defaulting on our debt brings stability to world markets. The district is gerrymandered R+12, but he is a complete idiot on the Gohmert scale.  The Florida Dems need to put up a candidate for every damn seat and make a real effort to not give the GOP any easy victory.  Marihelen Wheeler ran a scrappy campaign last time and I hope she tries again.  Our biggest enemy here, as always, is apathy.


Originally posted to SemDem on Sat Apr 05, 2014 at 02:16 PM PDT.

Also republished by North & Central Florida Kossacks and DKos Florida.

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  •  Tip Jar (295+ / 0-)
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    The Seminole Democrat
    Confronting the criminally insane who rule our state; as well as the apathy of the vast majority who let them.

    by SemDem on Sat Apr 05, 2014 at 02:16:48 PM PDT

  •  we all need to get torpored(sic) /nt (15+ / 0-)

    Warning - some snark may be above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 "I’m not the strapping young Muslim socialist that I used to be" - Barack Obama 04/27/2013 (@eState4Column5).

    by annieli on Sat Apr 05, 2014 at 02:31:50 PM PDT

  •  reads like something a 13 year old would write (21+ / 0-)

    about or maybe a 14-15 year old with some social problems.  I have seen dom-oriented stuff like this before and the joke is the writers in real life are really quite ordinary with an elaborated fantasy life to make up for the lack and scorn encountered in real life.

    OTOH, while I have a complete collection of De Sade on my bookshelf, I would hardly compose the platform he espouses as his public face.  I tend to think that the public face of a pol should reflect his private face.  This guy is an epic fail at that

  •  For more information on the background (9+ / 0-)

    see the Wikipedia articles on the role-playing games Vampire: The Masquerade and its successor Vampire: The Requiem; the latter explains some of the esoteric terminology in this in-game description of the Gainesville group.

    •  It's a game, folks. (24+ / 0-)

      I bought a copy of the original Vampire: The Masquerade book as soon as it hit the shelf, about 23 years ago. I worked staff at the convention White Wolf ran in Atlanta in 1994, where they were playtesting their live-action Wraith rules. I have participated in and helped run non-Camarilla-affiliated MET games.

      Live-action roleplaying games are about taking on a persona that is not your own, getting together with others who are doing likewise, and combining social interaction with playing a game. That's it. Some people play villains, some play heroes, but the focus of most of the World of Darkness games is that the (fictional) characters have to do (imaginary) bad things to survive (in the game).

      Yes, there are some freaks who get into such games, take it seriously, and make the whole community look bad by association. Several years ago, when such a freak made national news, the local newspaper called a friend of mine, who was running the local group. That made about as much sense as it would to contact a local comic shop because they sell Batman comics and someone in another state dressed up like Batman to kill some people - specifically, almost none. After all, everyone playing here was behaving pretty well, aside from the usual level of political infighting that seems endemic to such groups.

      Now, this guy may indeed be twisted. I don't know. All I'm saying is that judging his real personality based on in-character activity is a Really Bad Idea. Playing a twisted character could be the result of being genuinely twisted, but it could also just be a way to do something very unlike your real life - and unless you know the guy, you don't know which.

      Heck, I once played a guy who was out to enslave the homeless and turn them into his own personal army. It's a game, and that's all it is.

      Former libertarian...who grew up.

      by RevBobMIB on Sat Apr 05, 2014 at 04:04:06 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Sorry RevBob. People who are drawn to (20+ / 0-)

        this kind of "game" and use it to allow them to write things about non-consensually sticking their stuff around is not the kind of person that I want representing me in Congress.

        •  So you wouldn't vote for me, then? (9+ / 0-)

          On the one hand, I'm a staunch advocate of equality for everyone. I believe religion has no place in the law, gays should have the same rights everyone else does (including the right to marry and protection from discrimination), we have a big problem with income inequality, we seriously need big Wall Street reform, and corporations have too much power. I've never done drugs, I rarely drink, and I've never cheated on the spouse I don't have. In fact, all of my romantic and/or sexual relationships have been strictly monogamous.

          And on the other hand, I used to play bad guys in a live-action game. I used to carry slips of paper that represented guns and bombs, and I used to play rock-paper-scissors to resolve pretend fistfights. That's been a good decade or so back, but I don't deny it.

          For that matter, I've spent the last 4.5 years working for the game company that makes the Illuminati card game; I telecommute to maintain their website. This is the same company that was raided by the Secret Service, an incident that helped create the EFF. (Perhaps you've heard of them?) That was before my time, but we're still very big on online freedom.

          Oh, and I also read (and write) urban fantasy novels, along with SF and even horror. I even played a hallucination of Richard Nixon in a local indie film, although I refused to do the scene nude. (It beats me why they wanted me to, but they did.)

          So, which of those aspects of my personality are important in the voting booth? Do you care about my fantasy life or what I'd actually do in office?

          Former libertarian...who grew up.

          by RevBobMIB on Sat Apr 05, 2014 at 04:42:42 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  if you wrote about stories about rape (27+ / 0-)

            and advocated for making laws against women,  then NO, I would not vote for you

            The Seminole Democrat
            Confronting the criminally insane who rule our state; as well as the apathy of the vast majority who let them.

            by SemDem on Sat Apr 05, 2014 at 04:56:15 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Funny thing... (6+ / 0-)

              I don't recall ever seeing anyone promote any variety of real-world politics in a LARP, but maybe he's the exception.

              However, in the novel I'm writing, there are two "impaired consent" sex scenes. One's the result of extortion - along the lines of a policeman saying he won't write a ticket if the driver consents to sex, and the driver feeling that they have no choice. The other involves magical influence, where the villain of the piece uses a spell to get revenge. (It's contemporary fantasy; magic happens.) Imagine, say, Lex Luthor kidnapping Lois Lane and slipping her a super-aphrodisiac; she agrees to the act, but she's not in her right mind.

              In both cases, the bad actor is clearly depicted as a Bad Person doing a Bad Thing, and punishment doesn't happen right away. I guess that makes it a "story about rape"...or, at least, a story where rape is a significant plot point.

              Does writing that novel make me a Bad Person who couldn't be trusted with public office?

              Former libertarian...who grew up.

              by RevBobMIB on Sat Apr 05, 2014 at 05:20:30 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Depends. (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                mamamedusa, Gowrie Gal, Ismay
                Does writing that novel make me a Bad Person who couldn't be trusted with public office?
                That would depend on how good a writer you are. If you were able to offer some genuine insight into the human condition, then I don't think that would disqualify you from high office. Twain, for example, was a brilliant writer whose consideration of slavery and other aspects of the human condition is still resonant today.

                However, your description here sounds as if you're paying to indulge a rape fantasy by conspicuously identifying the perpetrator as a bad person. That's a crude, simplistic and frankly infantile ploy.

                You would not get my vote, that's for sure.

              •   "impaired consent" sex scenes - WTF? (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                fou, Ismay

                Scenario one is rape by means of extortion.

                Scenario two is rape by means of inability to consent, you know, like roofies, those things that will get you thrown in jail and charged with rape.

                That you couch rape in some sort of fantasy game playing that will be distributed to the public makes it no less repulsive.  Hell, NAMBLA thinks they are following the natural order of things as they were meant to be. I'm thinking not so much, but that would just be a form of "impaired consent" by extension of your definition.

                This douchebag certainly has the right to do whatever he wishes with his personal time, but should he then choose to claim he believes in family values, his own values are important for the voting public to know about. Call it fiction, call it role playing, call it whatever you want, but keep it in your bedroom or within the walls of your own home. Or, suffer the consequences when your idea of fun and games is exposed to the voting public.

                And, no, I probably wouldn't vote for you. BTK had most of the same characteristics you espouse as your own and we all know where that went.

                Have you ever had a sexual encounter under  "impaired consent?" I mean, a real brick and mortar encounter with a real human being. Do you know anyone who has that you actually care about? It might give you a different perspective.

                "Impaired consent?" Are you kidding me?

                "When injustice becomes law, defiance becomes duty." Bill Moyers

                by Ninepatch on Sun Apr 06, 2014 at 07:39:33 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Correction (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  fou

                  Should read:

                  With what I now know about you, no, I probably wouldn't vote for you.

                  "When injustice becomes law, defiance becomes duty." Bill Moyers

                  by Ninepatch on Sun Apr 06, 2014 at 08:02:58 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  Wow. The cheese has really slid off your cracker. (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  RevBobMIB

                  Seriously. He writes a piece of fiction. Makes it clear it's fiction. Nasty things happen in that fiction, including non-consensual sex (aka rape).

                  And he completely distinguishes it from how he behaves in real life, and how he promotes liberal causes in real life.

                  But you conclude he's unfit for public office because of a thing he wrote in a piece of fiction, for recreation.

                  That's a bridge too far.

                •  how is "impaired consent" not "rape" (0+ / 0-)

                  you are entitled to any fantasies, but you are not entitled to my vote

                •  Specific terminology. (0+ / 0-)

                  I wasn't saying that either one was not-rape, but generally speaking, if you just say "rape" and don't get more specific, people think of the violent kicking-and-screaming forced-compliance sort. If "consent" is gained through blackmail, extortion, roofies, alcohol, or some other such mechanism, it's still bad - but it's bad in different ways, and the victims may respond to their actions differently. Thus, I opted to describe the scenes with the more specific "impaired consent" term instead of the vaguer "rape" one.

                  Second, I don't "couch rape in some sort of fantasy game playing that will be distributed to the public" - I'm writing a novel, in which some bad people do bad things to good people. Those bad things have effects on the plot and character development, as do the good things that happen, and the bad guys get punished later in the book. While I don't claim to write at that level, criticizing me for daring to write those scenes is akin to criticizing Harper Lee for To Kill A Mockingbird on the grounds that it contains depictions of racism. Well, of course it does! It's hard to write an anti-X story without depicting X in some way!

                  Finally, no, I have not and would not have sex with someone whose consent was impaired. The very idea that you equate writing a scene in a book with doing something in real life is appalling. Do you think Raymond Chandler and Dashiell Hammett wanted to kill people, because they used murder as a plot device?

                  I do think one person in this conversation has a shaky grasp on reality - but it's not me.

                  Former libertarian...who grew up.

                  by RevBobMIB on Mon Apr 07, 2014 at 11:20:20 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

            •  Even if a politician has all the right policy (7+ / 0-)

              positions, I still would not vote for them if they had rape fantasies. I'm tired of this notion that all the badness is only on the right, or that only Republicans are really bad people if they jack off to crap like this, but it's fine if the guy or gal doing it is raising taxes on the 1%.

              It's not fine.

              At all.

              (I know you weren't saying that, but I feel it needs to be said.)

              There are plenty of other candidates who aren't twisted like that.

          •  I wouldn't vote for you (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            fou, delver rootnose, BYw

            because you've never done drugs. Everything else I can live with, but that is just weird... ;-)

            On the other hand, I guess I might make an exception based on your employment by the iconic Steve Jackson Games. Illuminatus, Car Wars - hell, I once had a subscription to Autoduel Quarterly - reprazent!!

        •  RevBob is right, though (11+ / 0-)

          we'd flip our shit if their side was going on and on about one of our candidates who play D&D in their spare time, which was and remains a frequent target of cultural conservatives.

          Dawkins is to atheism as Rand is to personal responsibility. uid 52583 lol

          by terrypinder on Sat Apr 05, 2014 at 05:39:19 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Exactly my point. (7+ / 0-)

            I wouldn't vote for this guy because he's a Republican, not because he's played LARPs. If he were a Democrat or an independent, this information would make me dig deeper, but I recognize the difference between fantasy and reality. That's exactly why I'd dig deeper instead of saying "oh, he's a LARPer, so he must be a twisted freak."

            I mean, Malcolm McDowell's played a lot of villains on camera, but in person he's a very nice guy. Fantasy vs. reality.

            Former libertarian...who grew up.

            by RevBobMIB on Sat Apr 05, 2014 at 05:54:25 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  my only nit is the constant use (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Alexandra Lynch

              of satanic imagery to equal evil.

              I know satanists and luciferians. they're not evil.

              Dawkins is to atheism as Rand is to personal responsibility. uid 52583 lol

              by terrypinder on Sat Apr 05, 2014 at 06:25:22 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I'm not taking a side on that... (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                terrypinder, Alexandra Lynch

                ...because I don't know any and haven't brushed up on their dogma. Closest I'm gonna get to a comment is that if they didn't want to be perceived as evil, they shouldn't have named their religion (or belief system, or whatever) after the Bad Guy in their country's predominant religious faith. I mean, if I wanted to start a civic organization to do good works, I wouldn't name it after Charles Manson.

                But then, I'm looking forward to playing a board game based on H.P. Lovecraft's Cthulhu Mythos, in which the players are playing Elder Gods who want to destroy the world. There's another card game I'm fond of, called Burn In Hell, where the players represent princes of Hell who are trying to collect souls based on how many things those souls have in common - including which of the Seven Deadly Sins they're guilty of. BIH is a bit mathy for some people, because there are numbers and multiplication involved, but otherwise it's a neat way to learn about 168 historical figures.

                I don't feel a bit bad about playing either game, even with kids - because they're games. They're not real, and they're not "games" with scare-quotes to imply that although they're being called games, they're just an excuse for real-life mayhem. They're cardboard and plastic and paper on a table; it's not a religious ceremony.

                I'm starting to wonder if SemDem understands the difference between attending a murder mystery party and wanting to go out and kill someone. I would be very concerned about electing anyone who can't understand such a distinction.

                Former libertarian...who grew up.

                by RevBobMIB on Sat Apr 05, 2014 at 06:46:33 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

          •  This type of thing is only unfair... (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            delver rootnose, RevBobMIB

            when Republicans do it to a Democrat.  When we do it to a Republican, it's totally cool!

            •  Democrats are live and let live (0+ / 0-)

              republicans want to control our sex lives....  if you say you have that right because you are holier than thou, you better not be writing misogynistic rape fantasies

          •  I played D&D before... never raped an elf (0+ / 0-)

            or jacked off sexually assaulting another character...

            I get that its all "fantasy" (sorry, its still sick), but this guy is running on a platform of being superchristian. that's the issue.  the pure hypocrisy of it all.

            for what its worth, I'd still rather have him than rick scott  

        •  I have invaded Kamchatka,... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          tardis10, RevBobMIB

          ....Indonesia, and Madagascar dozens of times and killed off hundreds of troops over the years does that make me ineligible to hold office.  Not to mention the numerous times I drove my fellow Atlantic City property owners into bankruptcy, intentionally.

          Boy I am quite the shit no aren't I.

          We Glory in war, in the shedding of human blood. What fools we are.

          by delver rootnose on Sat Apr 05, 2014 at 09:22:36 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Well, I didn't figure you wanted to vote for me, (0+ / 0-)

          either.

          Sometimes people write things that have no relationship to what they would actually do.

          When you come to find how essential the comfort of a well-kept home is to the bodily strength and good conditions, to a sound mind and spirit, and useful days, you will reverence the good housekeeper as I do above artist or poet, beauty or genius.

          by Alexandra Lynch on Sun Apr 06, 2014 at 11:29:27 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  the GOP already has a "rape" problem (0+ / 0-)

          note to anyone thinking of running for office--  don't ever, ever, ever mention rape in any context except to say its bad...  

          consultant fee: $100,000

      •  if you are going to be in a position to judge (35+ / 0-)

        other's lifestyles... and claim you have a moral high ground to judge other's (women's access to birth control, gay marriage, etc.)... then you better be damn well squeaky clean.  

        Those cocaine and rape fantasies, "putting on my rape face", dressing up like occult members...  you damn skippy I'm going to throw that back in his face...

        The Seminole Democrat
        Confronting the criminally insane who rule our state; as well as the apathy of the vast majority who let them.

        by SemDem on Sat Apr 05, 2014 at 04:23:52 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  A quibble (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          delver rootnose, Alexandra Lynch

          Throwing his hypocrisy in his face is fine.  But it seems to me you'd disapprove of his lifestyle choices even if he weren't a complete hypocrite.  There is nothing wrong with having rape fantasies.  There is nothing wrong with LARPing a vampire.

          There is something wrong with being a holier than thou, I'm a character out of a 1950's TV show, teabagger.  But I just get the impression that this is secondary in your disdain for this guy.

          "It was believed afterward that the man was a lunatic, because there was no sense in what he said." "The War Prayer" by Mark Twain

          by Quanta on Sun Apr 06, 2014 at 10:06:56 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Playing these games warps your mind (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        fou, Ninepatch, cablecargal

        including making players think rape and murder are normal. I forget which set of teenage mass killers were into this type of fantasy game.

        Sorry, it isn't "just a game." If you're spending a lot of time doing this, when you go to vote on things like CIA black ops, you're hallucinating the game. That's why the Bush/Cheney torture policy could be based on what happened on a TV show.

        •  Hogwash. (15+ / 0-)

          Complete, absolute, total, grade-A nonsense.

          Yes, some sick people are attracted to LARPs. They usually stand out as being freaks and are not welcomed back. They're not sick because they're gamers; they were sick long before they ever heard of the game.

          Do you also think snow causes cold weather? Should we blame the Beach Boys for the Manson Family, because Charles Manson liked their music?

          Former libertarian...who grew up.

          by RevBobMIB on Sat Apr 05, 2014 at 06:51:15 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I endorse your comment (4+ / 0-)

            I have a kid that plays several role playing games and him and the crowd he plays with are not creepy like the Tea Bagger who is running for office.

            Republicans: Taking the country back ... to the 19th century

            by yet another liberal on Sat Apr 05, 2014 at 06:58:48 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Some thoughts. (4+ / 0-)

            I've been a gamer most of my life.  Started with D&D in middle school.  I've played Call of Cthulhu, Vampyre, Shadowrun, and others.  I've never been into LARP myself, but I can see the attraction.

            The point of this article, I believe, is not that the candidate might engage in LARP.  It's that the asshat belongs the party of the same self-righteous assholes who in the 80's were screaming that D&D was satanic and leading teens to drugs, the occult, and murder and suicide.  And although not as vocal about it these days, many of them still feel the same way.  These are the same people who want to ban Harry Potter from school libraries today.

            The problem is that this idiot is yet another one of those Republican jerks that engages in behavior many of his own party abhors or attacks, while at the same time spouting that he intends to restrict or ban other behavior that his party abhors or attacks.  In short, he's a hypocrite.

            And the whole "putting on his rape face" thing...well, at best it's in poor taste and at worst it's outright offensive and worrying.

            Personally, I'd love for him to stand up and defend himself and his hobbies.  It'd be a refreshing change for a politician.  Instead, he's going to run into the closet and try to pretend it never happened.  Again, typical hypocritical Republican behavior by the alleged "party of personal responsibility".

        •  And violent video games (4+ / 0-)

          make mass murders right? sigh....

        •  Oh bullshit.... (7+ / 0-)

          ...complete and utter bullshit.  I have played these games for years and have gone to conventions as well.  I have killed hordes and hordes of creatures both sentient and not IN THE FUCKING GAME.  In real life I am quite the anti war anti gun anti military spending type person.  You can be warped and play these games but the games don't cause the warping.  

          That you can't see the difference is very troubling.

          We Glory in war, in the shedding of human blood. What fools we are.

          by delver rootnose on Sat Apr 05, 2014 at 09:36:43 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  You really don't know what you're talking about. (9+ / 0-)

          I will take my words back if you have played roleplaying games more than a time or two, but from your comments you appear to rely upon second-hand information rather than direct experience.

          I have been involved in more role-playing campaigns than I can remember, dating back 35 years or so.  Some were fantasy like D&D, some White Wolf (Vampire, Werewolf, Mixed), some horror (Call of Cthulhu), some science fiction / space odyssey (Mechwarrior), Steampunk (Castle Falkenstein) and a few others at times.  Some were live action, but most were table-top.  I've attended plenty of conventions, spending solid weekends without sleep playing and running games.  I have made many, many friends from coast to coast in this hobby.  In all those years, I have never, ever, run across a single person who was practicing evil or had confused the line between the real world and the world of gaming.  I do know people who were dishonorable and mean to their fellows, and there were disagreements and the kind of bickering like "the in-crowd" but while it might color out-of-game personal interactions, it never extended to non-players.

          There are warped individuals in society and whether or not they play role-playing games, or were in a Christian youth group or something else - role-playing games are not going to twist and corrupt minds that are not twistable from another influence.

        •  That is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. (6+ / 0-)

          This guy is an asshole because he's a right-wing teabagger, not because he's a gamer.

          FEAR! FEAR GAMING! FEAR LARPS AND ROLE-PLAYING.

          I really hate these brain-damaged moral panics.

          Are we going to start distributing Dark Dungeons now?

          http://www.chick.com/...

          Hell, I've been playing role-playing games for 25 years, and nobody's offered to teach me real spellss.

      •  You think it's a game? (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mamamedusa, Ninepatch

        I don't understand that kind of game. I mean really.

        What is the object of a game in which someone says: "I want to rape you. JK!"

        I don't understand that bullshit.

        Perhaps you can enlighten me.

        Seriously, what is the obstensible object of this game? Is this how certain people play at being "men"? Is that it?

        I mean, it's one thing to be a sadomasochist, but then don't run on taking people's rights away because your some paragon of moral virtue.

        He can get fucked with that bullshit.

        •  So how do you... (0+ / 0-)

          ...feel about civil war reinactors.

          We Glory in war, in the shedding of human blood. What fools we are.

          by delver rootnose on Sat Apr 05, 2014 at 10:01:36 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  The depends upon the definition of (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            mamamedusa, Punditus Maximus

            'civil war re-inactors'.

            I once went to a Civil War re-enactment. I'd thought that it was just going to be a bunch of guys in blue shooting fake muskets at a bunch of guys in grey; but when I wandered into the Confederate section, I saw a man with a large iron cross tattoo stare at me for quite a long time.

            I'm African American, and this Civil War re-enactment took place in Huntington Beach, CA which has one of the largest concentration of skinheads in the country. That's not a mere co-incidence.

            How about you? Would you be okay with people playing ante-bellum slave and master?

            •  Well perfect example .... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Witgren

              ...of my argument.  The guy you saw was twisted regardless of the re-enactment.  The re-enactment might have attracted him but to damn all of the re-enactors because of him is wrong.  Same thing in this case.

              Oh to your other question.  It depends on how stacked she was.  

              We Glory in war, in the shedding of human blood. What fools we are.

              by delver rootnose on Sat Apr 05, 2014 at 10:31:47 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  You need to get over yourself. (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                LeighAnn, mamamedusa, Ninepatch

                I don't give a shit about people who play these stupid games. It's kind of weird that adults put on costume and run around like children, but in most cases it's benign.  Not in all cases, however.

                Some guy who likes to play rapist? I would not let that person around my children. Now, that might make you cry ... you know ... that somehow I'm being mean to you and other role players because I don't like some freak who likes to play rapist or child molester; but I really don't understand why you would identify with a guy like that such that you think my condemnation of him is somehow a reflection on you. Only you can answer that.

                Oh to your other question.  It depends on how stacked she was.
                That's not really an answer. You're saying you would be willing to play master or slave? With a woman with small or large breasts?

                Which is it?

                •  Not that I owe you an answer..... (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  RevBobMIB, Heiuan

                  ...one whit but probably not, and certainly not without a willing partner.  Judge me for that if you want, but if you do that then do not be surprised if someone judges you for what you seem to accept, for example a bunch of guys re-enacting one of the bloodiest American wars, some fighting to keep slavery.  Rape is wrong but so is murder and war.

                  So what movies do you watch,  did you watch kill bill and enjoy it?  What about unforgiven or any Bruce lee movies.  Bond flicks, do you like those.  What about people who go to Star Trek conventions dressed as Borg or Q.  Are they evil or amoral.

                  That you cannot acknowledge that someone can play a game role that is vile without necessarily being vile themselves showes you are lacking the acknowledgement of the subtleties of life that I though you understood.

                  This candidate may be vile, but not necessarily so because of his LARPing.

                  The real problem with this guy is that he is a republican that supports the republican platform, and wants it to be even more to the right than it is now.  And that platform is vile and evil and more important NOT A FANTASY.

                  We Glory in war, in the shedding of human blood. What fools we are.

                  by delver rootnose on Sat Apr 05, 2014 at 11:30:26 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Oh wow. (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Ninepatch, Prognosticator
                    The real problem with this guy is that he is a republican that supports the republican platform, and wants it to be even more to the right than it is now.
                    Hmm. So you think that it isn't as much of a problem for a pro-choice Democrat to have rape fantasies? Is that right?

                    You think that if someone with the "right politics" fantasizes about rape ... then whatever? So long as a candidate tells you that he or she wants to raise taxes on the 1% for example, then who cares who they fantasize about raping?

                    I just don't see the world that way. I think what a person fantasizes about offers greater insight into their character then what they would have me believe their policy positions are. If I know that someone fantasizes about doing something that sick, I know that in reality they derive pleasure from that fantasy, and that in reality they like to flirt with the idea of doing something even if they would never actually do it. That tells me that that person derives pleasure from others pain, and I don't find it credible that a person like that could have empathy with people.

                    The fact that this guy is a Republican is intimately related to the fact that he fantasizes about raping people.  I don't play pretend like you do, and I'm not so naive as to pretend that his political affiliation has nothing to do with his kink.

                    Is has everything to do with it.

                    It seems that you really believe that who you "play" has nothing to do with who you really are. That's bullshit.

                    •  Yea I do believe .... (0+ / 0-)

                      ....

                      It seems that you really believe that who you "play" has nothing to do with who you really are.
                      ...this.

                      Or do you think Robert Downy JR think he is Iron man. Or Harrison ford is really an anthropology professor looting ancient ruins.  Etc etc etc.

                      you must be a really boring person if you have no fantasy life.  and everyone has evil thoughts, hell they thought of original sin hundreds of years ago.  It doesn't matter what you think about it matters what you DO.  And I find your judgmentalism and your certainty that you can delve a person's character by the games they play simplistic and reeks of the attitudes of the religious right.

                      Oh and the measure of a man's strength of character is measured by what desires he doesn't act on.

                      We Glory in war, in the shedding of human blood. What fools we are.

                      by delver rootnose on Sun Apr 06, 2014 at 12:34:37 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Oh no, who you "play" has everything to do (3+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        84thProblem, mamamedusa, Ninepatch

                        with who you really are. By definition. Plenty of us don't run around in rape costume. Know why? Because we're not that guy.

                        Who you are determines which fantasies you do and don't indulge. By definition. You can't divorce a person's fantasy life from their character. They're intimately connected.

                        Oh and the measure of a man's strength of character is measured by what desires he doesn't act on.
                        You know what, I'm not going to give someone a gold star because they didn't actually rape someone. I don't think that refraining from violating another person when he wishes to makes a man a good person at all. I think a good person is one who does not wish to do that. There are plenty of people who don't wish to do that at all. Do you feel judged by them too?

                        I have every right to judge this freak. He's running for public office. That's what happens when you run for public office. People judge you. To me, there's a difference between having bad thoughts, and ritualizing them by acting out elaborate fantasies in costume. Some guy who does what this guy does is not fit for office. I don't care if he's a Democrat or a Republican.

                        •  I'm sorry (2+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          delver rootnose, RevBobMIB

                          You are obviously coming from a really good place on this. But you do NOT know what you're talking about, or you would not say such things in the face of the thousands or millions of women who take great enjoyment in rape fantasies (fantasies of BEING raped) yet would never want it to happen in real life.

                          I am not a roleplayer in real life; it's never been my thing.  But my hobbies take me around people who are; many of my friends over the years have done it.  You likely know people who enjoy it as well -- it's "closeted" to a large extent for reasons amply demonstrated in this thread, but it's not rare.  You're likely making judgments here on people you know personally who you have every (other) reason to respect highly.

                          As for rape fantasies specifically, I distrust when people take the role of the perpetrator.  I can't help that.  But intellectually I have to accept that it's most often harmless and not something the person playing the role would have any interest in or attraction to in real life, because I've known too many people who enjoy taking victim roles to believe that's not the case for the villains as well.

                          As for what this particular person wrote, it made me giggle.  I've seen so much "worse", and better written too.  I think it's unlikely to be at all threatening, though this person is a self-evident turd for plenty of other reasons -- thinking he could get away with occult roleplay as a self-proclaimed conservative Christian being just one of them.  Among that crowd I bet the rape aspect is the least problematic issue, though I may be being uncharitable.

                          •  I've known many ... shall we say ... eccentric (0+ / 0-)

                            people. Why would you assume I haven't?

                            Just as it's true that a person isn't necessarily bad because of the fantasies they have, so too is it true that they aren't necessarily good. As I said, I've known many different kinds of people in my life, and based on my experiences, I've concluded that certain people who ritualize and indulge these fantasies in a controlled environment do so because they want to indulge some fucked up or monstrous part of their real world psyche that they could never get away with without some sort of nominal consent.

                            Now, whatever people do is their business, but some guy who asks for my vote when he dresses up in rape costume or ante-bellum slave master costume like this asshole who was recently appointed university president in South Carolina? No fucking way.

                            I don't care if you're a man or woman who wants to rape or be raped. I'd have a hard time voting for that person if I knew that about them. The bar for me to consider voting for such a person would be extremely high. For example, if they had won a Nobel Prize I might reconsider. Their life's work would have to demonstrate they are a complicated yet extraordinary person.

                            Some yahoo in Florida? Please.

                          •  So did... (0+ / 0-)

                            ..you vote for Clinton then?  Or even Gore?

                            We Glory in war, in the shedding of human blood. What fools we are.

                            by delver rootnose on Sun Apr 06, 2014 at 12:33:19 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Stop being so childish. (0+ / 0-)

                            I mean really, you're being ridiculous.

                            You think I have a problem with an affair between two consenting adults because I'm repulsed by people who have rape fantasies?

                            Those two things are not even in the same universe.

                            What the hell is your problem?

                •  Oh and to add. (0+ / 0-)

                  I don't identify with this guy for several reasons.  He is a republican primarily  and I don't get into the vampire or goth scene.  The small amount of LARPing I have done is D&D or Sci Fi stuff but I have friends who do get into it and some are into ren. fair stuff and when they take the costumes off they are by and large quite normal and more well adjusted than the people I know who consider them weird.

                  And I don't know when 'child molesting' came into this diary as I have seen no mention of it before.

                  Oh and 'I have to get over myself'. Why because I have hustpa to disagree with you.  HAH.

                  But of course my opinion doesn't matter because role players to you are freaks and play stupid games.  But hey who am I to criticize, I think people who get wound up about various ball games weird. And I know most people consider me weird because I get wound up about politics.

                  We Glory in war, in the shedding of human blood. What fools we are.

                  by delver rootnose on Sat Apr 05, 2014 at 11:56:00 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  Oh and to add even more.... (0+ / 0-)

                  ...here at DKos we have to show respect to people of religion because they have sincerely held beliefs but can disrespect people who know what they are playing at is fantasy.

                  We Glory in war, in the shedding of human blood. What fools we are.

                  by delver rootnose on Sat Apr 05, 2014 at 11:58:51 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  You're actually upset that I called a man (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    mamamedusa

                    who likes to play at raping women a freak? Really? Why is that upsetting to you?

                    •  Because judgmental assholes... (4+ / 0-)

                      ...have been doing this type of shit ever since I started playing D&D and other role playing games in JR high.  Saying I am evil and going to hell and imperiling my soul etc etc.

                      Usually it was rightwing religious freaks.  Now I find this attitude is not just limited to the rightwing but is espoused by well know member of what is purportedly a left leaning site.

                      And your slant wise suggestions that because I can support someone having a fantasy life that does not comport to what YOU see as normal means I support rape is just fucking disgusting.

                      We Glory in war, in the shedding of human blood. What fools we are.

                      by delver rootnose on Sun Apr 06, 2014 at 12:43:38 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Again, why do you think I'm talking about (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Matt Z, Ismay

                        you?

                        Because judgmental assholes... (0+ / 0-)
                        ...have been doing this type of shit ever since I started playing D&D and other role playing games in JR high.
                        (Good Lord.)

                        What does D&D have to do with rape fantasies? I know nothing about this bullshit, and even I know that D&D is just some harmless, nerdly bullshit.

                        Jesus, why do you get so bent out of shape about it? I'm guessing that junior high was probably several years ago for you, yes?

                        People made fun of me for all kinds of crap in junior high. I don't cry about it decades later. And I don't apologize for calling some guy who fantasizes about raping women a freak ... because ... that's what he is.

                        Maybe if you didn't play pretend so much, and you understood what the implications of a fantasy like that are in the real world, you'd understand where I'm coming from.

                        •  The condescension just rolls... (0+ / 0-)

                          ...off of you in waves.  My god you are not even worth talking to.  But you so fucking wrong about what I do and don't know about life and how many of my relatives have been raped and one raped and murdered.  And I am probably as old or older than you are.

                          And the people you have to worry about are the ones who deny they have an evil side and bottle it up.

                          Either way I am done with you as you are acting the fool.

                          We Glory in war, in the shedding of human blood. What fools we are.

                          by delver rootnose on Sun Apr 06, 2014 at 01:02:45 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Okay ... well ... (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            mamamedusa, Matt Z, Ismay
                            But you so fucking wrong about what I do and don't know about life and how many of my relatives have been raped and one raped and murdered.  And I am probably as old or older than you are.
                            Then I don't really understand what you're upset about. Seriously dude. The assholes who made fun of you for playing D&D, I bet some of them got off on the same sick shit this guy does. I'd call them freaks too.

                            I mean, one minute you're saying that the real problem with this guy isn't with his fantasies, it's that he's a Republican, and that you'd play ante-bellum master/slave with a woman with big/small tits; and the next minute you're saying that I don't know you, and that some of your relatives have been raped?

                            What the fuck?

                            It didn't even occur to me that be "sensitive" to Mr. Rape Fantasy because he's wearing a goddamned costume. I called him a freak because he gets off on the idea of forcing his way on people. I don't do this role play bullshit, so I don't think I'm saying something bad about people in costume. That's what you think I'm doing, which is absurd.

                            Be mad at that guy, not me.

                        •  writing about (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          fou

                          and fantasizing about rape or child molestation is sick...

                          Yes, it is just writing.

                          Yes, it might be legal, but it is not moral.  It is sick.  sorry to judge your "lifestyle"

                          I'm offended that you put LARPers in this category and are pretending this is an attack on geeks.

                          Yes, hiding behind the Christian thing makes it 4 times worse. but I do not want someone like that in congress

                          •  I agree. I don't understand what any of this (0+ / 0-)

                            has to do with LARPers. Unfortunately, people from all walks of life are animated by these kinds of fantasies. Many of them role play, and many don't.

                            They're all fucked up. I don't really give a fuck whether they put a costume on or not.

                •  Does it matter... (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  delver rootnose

                  ...what two consenting adults care to do in their spare time?  What other immoralities should we be "protected" against?

                  Everyday Magic

                  Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
                  -- Clarke's Third Law

                  by The Technomancer on Sun Apr 06, 2014 at 11:34:37 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  What are you talking about? (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Ismay

                    I don't give a shit what people do in their own time; but when someone asks for the public trust, then who he or she is matters.

                    I didn't think this was controversial.

                    I also don't understand people who feel judged. Honestly. I don't understand: "I have fantasies about raping and wanting to hurt you, but don't judge me because that's hurtful." What kind of weak shit is that?

                    A real libertine wouldn't care one wit what I or anyone else thinks of their kink.

                    •  You asked in the parent post of mine... (1+ / 1-)
                      Recommended by:
                      delver rootnose
                      Hidden by:
                      Ismay

                      ...if someone would have a problem with roleplaying an antebellum slave and master.  I asked why it mattered what two consenting adults did in their spare time.  You apparently do give a shit, because that's what this guy is doing in his spare time with other consenting adults.

                      People feel judged because you're being a judgmental asshole in this thread.

                      You can save the "No True Scotsman" argument/fallacy for someone who can't see through your bullshit, too.

                      All this shows is that you're one of those sorts that has an inability to separate fantasy from reality.

                      Everyday Magic

                      Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
                      -- Clarke's Third Law

                      by The Technomancer on Sun Apr 06, 2014 at 11:45:44 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  You need to get over yourself too. (0+ / 0-)

                        Again, I don't care what people do in their spare time. I don't think two consenting adults should be prevented from doing whatever is it they find gratifying; but I have every right to think it's disgusting.

                        You want to judge me for being judgmental? Whatever. I don't give a shit. Right back atcha.

                        If you have to make up the fact that that somehow means I'm against consenting adults doing what they want, then your argument is as weak as your crying about my purported judgements.

                        People who want to play ante-bellum slave and master? Those people ain't coming to my house for dinner. I don't give a shit how much you or anyone else cries about it.

                        •  I suspect... (0+ / 0-)

                          ...dinner with gamers would be more fun than the dreary ass dinners you must host anyway.  

                          We Glory in war, in the shedding of human blood. What fools we are.

                          by delver rootnose on Sun Apr 06, 2014 at 12:38:35 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Stop crying man, it's embarrassing. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Ismay

                            And you never answered my question: would you be the master or slave, and would your partner have to have small or large breasts?

                            Put your money where your mouth is.

                          •  I just think it's hilarious... (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            delver rootnose

                            ...that you have the inability to separate fantasy from reality, and that you think that people who offer an opposing viewpoint from yours are "crying", and now you're aggressively asking about other people's fantasies!

                            If you're going to keep digging, at least use a shovel and save yourself some work, boss.

                            Everyday Magic

                            Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
                            -- Clarke's Third Law

                            by The Technomancer on Sun Apr 06, 2014 at 01:25:43 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  No, you have that inability. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Ismay
                            I just think it's hilarious... (0+ / 0-)
                            ...that you have the inability to separate fantasy from reality
                            You think that if I judge a person's fantasy, that somehow that means I think they would really do what they fantasize about doing. That's just dog shit stupid, and anyone who believes that doesn't understand the difference between fantasy and reality.

                            I've encountered many kinds of people, and the people that I've known who were affluent enough to play these kind of, shall we say, "reindeer games" were all very skilled players; and all of them, to a person, believed that the fantasy you indulge is a reflection of who you are. Whether or not you carry out that fantasy is irrelevant.

                            None of the people I knew would trust or associate with anyone who didn't know that. They considered people who didn't understand that children who had no business playing with fire, and they were right.

                            And you are crying. You're sitting here whining that you feel judged. You have such a "handle on reality" that you think I'm some kind of Christian fundamentalist?! LOL! What a joke.

                            This isn't child's play, m'kay? We're not talking about children who play pretend here. We're talking about fully formed adults who are ritualizing fantasies about non-consensual acts. That's problematic at the very least, and if you don't know that then it's you who doesn't have the ability to separate fantasy from reality.

                          •  You're contradicting yourself... (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            RevBobMIB

                            ...and outright making shit up as well.

                            You think that if I judge a person's fantasy, that somehow that means I think they would really do what they fantasize about doing.
                            So, let me get this straight.  You're stating that you recognize that fantasy is fantasy,  Awesome!  Except, then you go ahead and contradict it completely with the following:
                            I've encountered many kinds of people, and the people that I've known who were affluent enough to play these kind of, shall we say, "reindeer games" were all very skilled players; and all of them, to a person, believed that the fantasy you indulge is a reflection of who you are. Whether or not you carry out that fantasy is irrelevant.

                            None of the people I knew would trust or associate with anyone who didn't know that. They considered people who didn't understand that children who had no business playing with fire, and they were right.

                            So now it's a reflection of who you are, not fantasy.  Your two statements are in direct opposition of each other.

                            So let's clear up some of your misconceptions:

                            -- Roleplaying can be an affluent person's game, but it generally isn't.  Rules are found online in PDF format for cheap or free, along with used bookstores and libraries.  You need a pencil/pen, paper, and under $5 in dice for the whole group to play.  Shit, the reason many of us got into pen and paper roleplaying was that it is a cheap way to creatively spend an afternoon with friends.  Even the ones who dress up in the fancy costumes -- the vast majority of those they make themselves or are gifted them by friends who sew or metalwork.  The people who go out and drop a few bills on a costume are the ones that get laughed at.

                            -- "Skill" in roleplaying is the same skill that writers and actors use when putting themselves in a role to write about it or play it out.  Again, we're back to the Jim Webb argument -- because someone things about something abhorrent or taboo during a creative process, they're suddenly bad and they should feel bad.  Frankly, if your friends are going all "this is srs bizness, people who don't think so are children!", I'd hope that they're pulling a gag on you, because otherwise, it either means they're unimaginative and can't put themselves in a role without it having been something they already feel or have experienced, they're the type of social reject that actually -does- have issues separating fact from fiction and reality from fantasy, all previous rhetoric aside, or you're friends with the goth kids from South Park.

                            And you are crying. You're sitting here whining that you feel judged.
                            Quote it.
                            You have such a "handle on reality" that you think I'm some kind of Christian fundamentalist?! LOL! What a joke.
                            I understand that making shit up to argue against makes it easier to argue against something, but again, quote it.  You spewed out the same logic as the old anti-D&D Chick tract.  Nobody accused you of being a fundie -- in fact, the point of showing someone something like that is because one is making the assumption that you, in fact, are not a fundamentalist and probably don't want to do things that make for easy comparisons between what you're saying and what they're saying.

                            This is a discussion, boss.  Everyone's not out to get you.  We think you're wrong.  We're saying way.  Providing an opposing viewpoint isn't crying.  Fleshing out your arguments isn't "protesting too much".  Do I think you're a terrible person?  Nope.  I think you're wrong, and from your posts, it looks like a lot of it comes from ignorance or misinformation, not because you're a terrible person or something like that.

                            This isn't child's play, m'kay? We're not talking about children who play pretend here. We're talking about fully formed adults who are ritualizing fantasies about non-consensual acts. That's problematic at the very least, and if you don't know that then it's you who doesn't have the ability to separate fantasy from reality.
                            I'm aware we're talking about what adults are doing on a consensual basis with one another.  Roleplaying, acting, and writing isn't "ritualizing" anything,  Playing Super Mario Brothers isn't "ritualizing" the act of jumping on mushrooms and warping through pipes.  Playing Grand Theft Auto isn't "ritualizing" the acts of pistol-whipping hookers and committing other major crimes -- it's intentionally over the top.  And yes, these are all very good analogies for what the guy who wants to be Rep. Lestat (R-FL) does in his spare time.

                            Like I said earlier in this comment, you fully admit that fantasy is fantasy and that it doesn't mean that it will translate to reality.  Then you post two paragraphs stating that the act of exploring those thoughts by itself makes someone an unsavory individual.  Those two statements don't jive -- if you believe that fantasy is fantasy and won't be acted upon, there's nothing to worry about.

                            Plus, I guarantee you've had people with those fantasies and worse at your dinner table or other social events already.

                            Everyday Magic

                            Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
                            -- Clarke's Third Law

                            by The Technomancer on Sun Apr 06, 2014 at 03:57:14 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Please. (0+ / 0-)
                            Again, we're back to the Jim Webb argument -- because someone things about something abhorrent or taboo during a creative process, they're suddenly bad and they should feel bad.
                            First of all, "bad" is in the eye of the beholder. Because you don't understand the difference between reality and fantasy, you think that there is such a thing as an objective measure of a person's character.

                            That's not true. There's no good or bad really. What we as a society choose to think of as good or bad is completely arbitrary.

                            I think this man is an execrable person because he has rape fantasies. Whether or not he acts on them is irrelevant. You're free to think that he's not a bad person, and you're free to believe that his fantasies have absolutely nothing to do with who he really is, but I firmly believe your opinion - that such fantasies have nothing to do with a person's character - is a delusion.

                            I firmly believe that his fantasies are an indication of a flaw in his character. Now, are the other aspects of his character that might mitigate that flaw? Perhaps, but none that I've seen so far. To me, this man is a wannabe rapist Republican asshole who wishes to condemn others morally while he runs around pretend violating people. I think that such a person is a disgusting creep, and I'm far from the only one who thinks that. There are a lot of people who, for example, would not let their daughters around that guy; and it's not because they don't understand the difference between reality and fantasy. It's because they know he doesn't.

                            If he didn't want people to judge him, then he shouldn't have asked for the public trust.

                            This is really not rocket science.

                          •  Hi, I'm over here. (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            RevBobMIB, delver rootnose
                            First of all, "bad" is in the eye of the beholder. Because you don't understand the difference between reality and fantasy, you think that there is such a thing as an objective measure of a person's character.
                            I'd appreciate it if you actually addressed my arguments rather than the ones in your own imagination.  Thanks!
                            There's no good or bad really. What we as a society choose to think of as good or bad is completely arbitrary.
                            We're in agreement here.
                            I think this man is an execrable person because he has rape fantasies. Whether or not he acts on them is irrelevant. You're free to think that he's not a bad person, and you're free to believe that his fantasies have absolutely nothing to do with who he really is, but I firmly believe your opinion - that such fantasies have nothing to do with a person's character - is a delusion.
                            You take your beliefs, and I'll take facts.

                            People who explore fantasies with other consenting individuals are far less likely to commit those acts they fantasize about than the rate of such occurrences in the general public.  It actually helps make them better people, and that is something that's objectively measurable.  This is why role play is such an effective therapeutic and training technique.  This isn't opinion, or delusion, it's stone cold fact.

                            Now, here's what I'm seeing, and I invite you to correct me where you feel I'm wrong:

                            You seem to believe that you have a handle on what sort of person someone is from an out of context quote, and I marvel at your ability to know a person that well without ever meeting or interacting with them.  I'd think you in particular, given your life experience and heritage, would be exceptionally wary of judging people on some quality you've seen or read about them without getting to know them first.  Do unto others, and all.

                            You seem to think that the ability to explore a taboo topic in the imagination, or in writing, acting, or roleplay makes someone a sick individual.  Art and roleplayers may have their share of freaks like everyone else, but it's a statistical certainty that you have, at some point, thought about something abhorrent to you.  It's called being human.

                            I firmly believe that his fantasies are an indication of a flaw in his character. Now, are the other aspects of his character that might mitigate that flaw? Perhaps, but none that I've seen so far. To me, this man is a wannabe rapist Republican asshole who wishes to condemn others morally while he runs around pretend violating people. I think that such a person is a disgusting creep, and I'm far from the only one who thinks that.
                            "Wannabe rapist" is something you can actually gather evidence for, and a dude roleplaying a villain character is no more a wannabe rapist than playing a wizard or druid makes you a wannabe Wiccan.  An appeal to majority/authority/feelings isn't evidence.
                            There are a lot of people who, for example, would not let their daughters around that guy; and it's not because they don't understand the difference between reality and fantasy. It's because they know he doesn't.
                            Present the evidence that he doesn't, then.  There are people who won't let their daughters around people that share your skin color, because they know "your type" are bad news -- and we call them things like bigoted, ignorant, and racist.  This is not a strong argument for your position, my friend.  It's stereotyping and nothing more.
                            If he didn't want people to judge him, then he shouldn't have asked for the public trust.

                            This is really not rocket science.

                            What he does in his spare time has no bearing on how good of a job he'd do.  We agree that he'd be a terrible representative because of his stated beliefs, and it is highly amusing that he's trying to out-Jebus his opponent when he pretends to be a vampire in his spare time.

                            In closing, you can have all the opinions you want, but logic's logic.  You'll still need to connect the logical dots to show how playing a villain character makes someone a creepy villain themselves, otherwise, you're simply discriminating out of ignorance and "knowledge" about "those people" and wanting such ignorance to be respected in a legitimate point of view, and I believe we've been pillorying laws that try to do exactly that

                            Everyday Magic

                            Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
                            -- Clarke's Third Law

                            by The Technomancer on Sun Apr 06, 2014 at 05:35:36 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  There's a difference ... (0+ / 0-)
                            Present the evidence that he doesn't, then.  There are people who won't let their daughters around people that share your skin color, because they know "your type" are bad news -- and we call them things like bigoted, ignorant, and racist.  This is not a strong argument for your position, my friend.  It's stereotyping and nothing more.
                            Between color of skin and content of character. You clearly believe they're the same thing, when they're nothing of the sort. Judging a person by their actions is not remotely the same as judging them merely by the color of their skin.

                            I judge people by their actions. I'm not talking about this guy's "heritage," I'm talking about things he does. I'm not prejudicially assuming that he will do the things he does because he actually does them. He actually does play pretend rapist, and I find that disgusting. I think a person who does that is fucked up. That doesn't mean that I think he would commit a crime, but it does mean that he fantasizes about disrespecting women in this way; and anyone with any sense knows that men who fantasize about disrespecting women like in fact do in reality.

                            And in fact, reality bears me out. He's a Republican asshole who doesn't think women should have the right to choose, doesn't think women deserve equal pay for equal work. That completely affirms that the asshole he is in his fantasy world is the asshole he is in reality. Obviously you're invested in believing that he's a not a bad guy despite his desires to pretend rape women, but his political positions are intimately related to the fact that he's a misogynist. You can't separate that.

                            And since you mentioned my race, I'd venture to say that it's because I'm African American that I'm highly suspicious of men like these. While you and all the other (I'm assuming) white guys are allowed the privilege of pretending that he's not a bad guy, the rest of us aren't. After all, he's not pretend raping you. He's not fantasizing about pretend enslaving you, and he's counting on white men like you to give him the benefit of the doubt, which you're clearly willing to do.

                            But when you're actually the object of someone's sadistic fantasy, that changes how you think of them. I don't apologize for thinking this this man is a sick, sadistic fuck. Because he is.

                          •  You aren't the object. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            RevBobMIB
                            Between color of skin and content of character. You clearly believe they're the same thing, when they're nothing of the sort. Judging a person by their actions is not remotely the same as judging them merely by the color of their skin.
                            While those are wildly different topics, that's not what you're discussing here.  You're considering a fact, out of context, and correlating it without evidence to a larger picture...the same as if I or someone else assumed something about you because you're an African-American, or a woman (which I didn't realize -- I'm sorry for making the assumption otherwise).
                            I judge people by their actions. I'm not talking about this guy's "heritage," I'm talking about things he does. I'm not prejudicially assuming that he will do the things he does because he actually does them. He actually does play pretend rapist, and I find that disgusting. I think a person who does that is fucked up. That doesn't mean that I think he would commit a crime, but it does mean that he fantasizes about disrespecting women in this way; and anyone with any sense knows that men who fantasize about disrespecting women like in fact do in reality.
                            You're still mischaracterizing role play terribly.  Calling what this guy does "rape fantasy" and "pretend rape" is the same thing as applying such labels to Robert De Niro, who has played multiple rapists across his career, or to the screenwriters that came up with the character.  The point of playing of a role is to adopt a persona different than your everyday one.

                            I'd also argue that there's not disrespect when playing out a fantasy like that with another consenting adult -- by its very nature it's a sign of respect and trust between all parties involved.  If you're playing the role of the victim in such a fantasy, you trust that the other individual is going to respect the safeword or the limits of the role (and if they don't, they are a rapist, plain and simple).

                            I've fantasized about wanting to smack some people I've gone to to school or worked with upside the head.  I don't, because I'm not a violent person, and even if I don't find them personally worthy of respect, I respect that as a human being, they should be free of people smacking them upside the head, deservedly or not.  According to the logic you've been using, because I'd really like to smack people upside the head sometimes, I'm a terrible, violent person.

                            And in fact, reality bears me out. He's a Republican asshole who doesn't think women should have the right to choose, doesn't think women deserve equal pay for equal work. That completely affirms that the asshole he is in his fantasy world is the asshole he is in reality. Obviously you're invested in believing that he's a not a bad guy despite his desires to pretend rape women, but his political positions are intimately related to the fact that he's a misogynist. You can't separate that.
                            We have proof he's a misogynist asshole.  No disagreement there.  The problem is that you're asserting a causal relationship between his roleplay and the rest of his beliefs, which is not backed by evidence, either in the article or in the population as a whole.  It's not a matter of not thinking he's an ass and a misogynist (the other stances he takes confirm it), it's a matter that in the process of trying to prove such, you're using something that he does and smearing multiple communities.  98% of criminals drank milk as children, but that's not a causal relationship between milk-drinking and crime.
                            And since you mentioned my race, I'd venture to say that it's because I'm African American that I'm highly suspicious of men like these. While you and all the other (I'm assuming) white guys are allowed the privilege of pretending that he's not a bad guy, the rest of us aren't. After all, he's not pretend raping you. He's not fantasizing about pretend enslaving you, and he's counting on white men like you to give him the benefit of the doubt, which you're clearly willing to do.
                            I figured your race/heritage was fair game because it's been brought up in the comments here by you already.  If I'm out of line bringing it up, I sincerely apologize.  Tell me not to and it won't happen again.  Your assumption about my gender and heritage is correct, although Jews weren't "white" until relatively recently.

                            But at the end of the day, he's not pretend-raping you either (and your assumption is correct, if it matters, although Jews weren't considered "white" until relatively recently).  He's not fantasizing about pretend-enslaving you either.  The logic you're using is taking an event happening within the confines of a game and fits with the setting of said game and trying to generalize it to the idea that he wants to pretend rape women, rather than the fact that he's playing a specific role, or that all people that play such roles are misogynists because this guy is, any more than him roleplaying a vampire means he fantasizes about sucking people's blood outside of the context of the game.

                            I see where you're coming from.  I really do, even if I have no way of truly understanding what your personal experience is like as an African-American woman in this country.  And you're obviously squicked out by the idea of consensual sexual fantasy like that (and if it's not consensual, it's rape).  As you've said, that's your opinion and you've every right to feel that way.

                            However, assuming that what happens within the context of playing a role with others automatically extends to what people think outside of that context is something that can be objectively proven, and is not true.  My wife and I enjoy kinks every now and then -- just because she wants me to cause her pain in the bedroom on occasion to spice things up doesn't mean she has a desire for such outside it -- nor would I ever think of causing her or any other woman pain without it being in the context of a consensual sexual encounter, or find such an idea exciting -- and I don't have a desire to dominate her entire life (or even the majority of our "snuggle time") despite the fact that I'll order her around in the bedroom from time to time because we like playing those roles with each other.  That's true for the vast majority of kinks, which again, can be objectively proven.

                            But when you're actually the object of someone's sadistic fantasy, that changes how you think of them. I don't apologize for thinking this this man is a sick, sadistic fuck. Because he is.
                            But you aren't the object of his fantasy.  The person he's roleplaying with is...within the context of the role play.  Again, this is playing a role.  Yes, we can reasonable infer that the guy is a misogynist and probably not someone who you'd care to have over to your dinner table based on his political positions.  But you're trying to extend the fact that this guy who actually does appear to be a misogynist enjoys something in a certain context to him fantasizing about it outside of that context, and that everyone who does wants to do it to you, despite the fact that you show no interest in playing that role (or even care for the context at all).  If that's not what you're intending to do, that's how it's coming across, and if I've misunderstood your argument and feelings, I apologize.

                            But you've pretty much spend this thread smearing everyone with a certain kink and judging them before getting to know them, and as I've said earlier, it's a statistical guarantee you've already had someone with a similar kink over if you've hosted more than 15-20 people in your life and the data says that he or she probably didn't fantasize about doing it to/with you.

                            I just don't feel it's right, and it's why I'm discussing this with you rather than simply blowing you off as just some closed-minded asshole -- because you probably aren't a closed-minded asshole, despite the fact you've spent this thread showing all the classic symptoms of such a condition, so to speak.  It's not fair to you if I did that.

                            I hope that clears up where I'm coming from now.  Thank you for the discussion thus far.

                            Everyday Magic

                            Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
                            -- Clarke's Third Law

                            by The Technomancer on Sun Apr 06, 2014 at 09:27:44 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Boy, you really have no idea who you're talking (0+ / 0-)

                            to.

                            I appreciate the kind words, but you really don't understand where I'm coming from at all.

                            I've known all kinds of kinky people. Black, white, gay, straight, male, female and intersex. All kinds.

                            I don't know why you would assume that my disgust with this politician means I'm some morally righteous, naive African American woman whose sensibilities are offended by BDSM, or that I must not understand the kind of role playing that you and your wife and millions of other consenting adults enjoy in the privacy of their bedrooms.

                            That's ridiculous. Like I said, I've known all kinds of people: dominants, submissives and switches. From all walks of life. All of them had very complex inner lives, and they were all very interesting and difficult people. The one's that I respected understood that their fantasies are a part of who they are. Your fantasies are not all of who you are, but they are certainly a part of who you are; and IMHO, the only way to ethically engage with your demons is by acknowledging that they are every bit a part of you as your angels.

                            People who understand that are the only kind of people I trust, quite frankly. But people who want to pretend that "he's just playing a role" ... please. You complain that I'm judgmental when you insult everyone's intelligence with that bullshit? The reason this guy disgusts me is that he doesn't own his demons. He'd rather make everyone else pay the price of his darkness by taking people's rights away. And I'm sorry, when I see a bunch of dudes swallow his bullshit and then say that his rape fantasies are merely a "hobby" for which he shouldn't be judged? Get fucked. I'll judge him all I want. I don't care how many of you cross your legs.

                            I really don't understand that PC bullshit. Lots of the kinky folks I used to know were very open about what disgusted them. It's called being honest about who you are, what you like and what you don't. I mean, if you're going to play with fire, you'd damned well better be honest about what you like and what you don't, or people could get hurt or worse.

                            And as for being the object of his fantasies, I am. All women are. He doesn't just hate a particular woman, he hates us all. That's why he wants to make sure we can't vote or choose. That's why he fantasies about committing rape. Seriously dude, I really don't understand why you have a hard time doing that math. It's pretty fucking basic.

                            What you describe between you and your wife is really ubiquitous. It's like amateur, casual play. You're probably from some flyover state, right? You probably think your kink means you're "not repressed," am I right? That's why you believe this bullshit that putting on a costume means that none of what you do in costume has any bearing on who you are.

                            I mean bless your heart. Obviously you're the king in your bedroom, but outside of that, you really don't understand fuck all.

                          •  That's awesome. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            RevBobMIB

                            No proof, no evidence, no arguments, just bitterness and bullshit.  Sorry for interrupting your fantasy world where you're the object of every man's desire and where adults discuss things without logic and reason, backed by evidence.  I'll stay right over here in reality.

                            I'll let you figure out just exactly how many ways you're wrong.  Or not...you don't seem to care as long as you have a fight to "win".

                            Thanks for the chat.

                            Everyday Magic

                            Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
                            -- Clarke's Third Law

                            by The Technomancer on Mon Apr 07, 2014 at 04:34:20 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Everyman's desire? (0+ / 0-)

                            You think a man with a rape fantasy "desires" women?

                            No wonder you felt judged by my disgust.

                            That's all the evidence I need.

                            Thanks for reminding me of why I try to avoid this place. It's a cesspool.

                          •  In addition to a... (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            RevBobMIB

                            ....judgmental jerk you have a reading comprehension problem.  I said I probably wouldn't do anything like what you suggest.  I answered your initial loaded question with sarcasm, that you obviously did not get. But to be more clear I probably would not do that type of thing.  It has no excitement for me, however if I was fortunate enough to get a partner and she was into it and wanted to do it I probably could be convicted to play the role for her enjoyment.  But it would only be the role.  It would not be me.  And it probably wouldn't be her, even if she got enjoyment from it.

                            That you ask that question shows you are trying to damn me with your ideas of what is normal. Also you are arguing disengenusly by equating my nuanced argument that this politician that enjoys vampire play may not be twisted and if he is it is not BECAUSE of his hobby with me supporting rape or rape fantasies should be HRable here.

                            You are being a dick.  And I have problems with people who act like dicks.

                            We Glory in war, in the shedding of human blood. What fools we are.

                            by delver rootnose on Sun Apr 06, 2014 at 01:53:55 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  When I asked you if you would play ante-bellum (0+ / 0-)

                            slave/master, you said it would depend on how stacked she is, right?

                            You said that in reality, right? Remember?

                            So, I'm asking you to put your money where your mouth is. You're sitting here insisting that your fantasy has nothing to do with who you really are, and yet you won't even tell us what it is when you're writing under a pseudonym?!

                            Why not?

                            Why not, homie? If you're saying that folks who play these kinds of games shouldn't be judged, then ... shouldn't you be able to tell us what role you'd play in the slave domination/submission fantasy?

                          •  Reading comprehension is your ... (0+ / 0-)

                            ..friend.  I answered your question fully and explained how you missed my initial sarcasm.

                            Unless of course you seem so interested in my reply because you are offering your services.   Which of course the answer would be NO.

                            We Glory in war, in the shedding of human blood. What fools we are.

                            by delver rootnose on Sun Apr 06, 2014 at 02:12:05 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I got that you were trying to be sarcastic. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Ismay

                            But as they say: half in jest, all in earnest. You're running about here upset that I think a man who has rape fantasies is a freak. Why wouldn't I think that part of you was really earnest, then?

                            I think your sarcasm is a fig leaf. I think you'd entertain that kind of role playing, but you're too afraid to put your money where your mouth is. So you cry about being judged because you feel you're not allowed to say what you'd do in mixed company.

                            The only thing worse than complaining about feeling judged by a condemnation of someone else's rape fantasy is running away from your own goddamned words.

                            Weak as fuck.

                          •  Believe what you want.... (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            RevBobMIB

                            ....but you are so far from wrong you just don't know.  You are just being a provocateur in this conversation and a dick.

                            We Glory in war, in the shedding of human blood. What fools we are.

                            by delver rootnose on Sun Apr 06, 2014 at 02:30:57 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Yup. I am far from wrong. (0+ / 0-)

                            On that we agree.

                      •  HR'd for calling him an a-hole (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        fou

                        no ad hominem attacks please

                        •  I cannot be the only person... (0+ / 0-)

                          ...who is seriously enjoying the irony of getting HR'ed by someone posting in a diary that is the very definition of ad hominem attack on someone, while said HRer is making ad hominem attacks about the subject of the diary elsewhere in the comments, and doing it for something I didn't even do.

                          Telling someone that they're being an asshole, or acting like an asshole, is not the same as calling them an asshole, nor am I implying that fou's argument is invalid because he's being an asshole, which is what an argument ad hominem would be.

                          Everyday Magic

                          Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
                          -- Clarke's Third Law

                          by The Technomancer on Sun Apr 06, 2014 at 04:08:50 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

      •  Thanks for the background (6+ / 0-)

        I would never run for office for many reasons (one of which is that much of what goes on at city council is over my head). I have taken positions in discussions on the internet that are contrary to many mainstream ways of thinking (delete my fucking account, kos!).

        The tea party candidate simply needs to come out with an ad that states that he is in fact, not a vampire.


        Every time my iPhone battery gets down to 47%, I think of Mitt Romney.

        by bobinson on Sun Apr 06, 2014 at 01:32:40 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  All but pointing a gun at dogs is none of my (8+ / 0-)

    business as long as it was consensual between all parties.

    I'd like to point out that a democratic candidate in Maine (?) was a Warcraft player and the Republicans tried to smear her for it. (She won)

    Instead of posting this here, you should notify to local tea party of this candidate as a "god fearing person." -- if you want to stir things up and play dirty -- since republicans live for getting in other people's business.

    Hillary does not have the benefit of a glib tongue.

    by The Dead Man on Sat Apr 05, 2014 at 03:10:01 PM PDT

    •  the big diff (20+ / 0-)

      The gamer in Vt. who was running wasn't trying to be "holier than thou" and take anyone's rights away

      The Seminole Democrat
      Confronting the criminally insane who rule our state; as well as the apathy of the vast majority who let them.

      by SemDem on Sat Apr 05, 2014 at 04:32:35 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Not even the rights of the 1%? (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        delver rootnose, ApostleOfCarlin

        Step back for a minute.

        Both sides - ours and theirs - think they have the superior moral claim and that They are trying to take Our rights away.

        Republicans think Democrats want to take away their rights to leave their kids a big inheritance, to bring their religious values with them into the workplace, and to own as many firearms as they want, because the Democrats think they're "holier than thou."

        Democrats...hell, this is Daily Kos. Do I need to spell out what Democrats think of Republicans?

        Emotional appeals are cheap. Can't we rise above that, and defend our positions with logic and reason? Feeding a "games are evil" moral panic does nothing to help our cause, and the logical problems with it make us vulnerable. Attack this guy on his platform and record, not because he's got a hobby you don't like.

        If we eliminated everyone from running for office based on whether they'd ever played a game where they took on a role that is socially unacceptable and/or depicted criminal activity, we couldn't elect anyone. After all, who here hasn't played Clue or Monopoly?

        Former libertarian...who grew up.

        by RevBobMIB on Sat Apr 05, 2014 at 07:23:13 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  R U really comparing this group with playing Clue (7+ / 0-)

          I don't remember Colonel Mustard orchestrating a gang rape of  a maiden while he snorts cocaine off his candlestick....

          •  Yes, I really am. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            delver rootnose, Heiuan

            Because they're both GAMES. Fantasies. Not-real events where bad stuff is depicted, but it's all imaginary. After all, if you want to have a game about good vs. evil, you need someone to take the "evil" side.

            Try this on for size. Suppose this guy and his wife like to roleplay in their sex lives. Maybe one night she's the Good Girl and he's the Gang Member, and they play out a "rape scene" that's fully consensual. Perhaps the next week he's a prisoner and she's the guard, and it's his turn to be tied down and "taken advantage of." Heck, maybe they play "dirty priest" and "naughty nun."

            Would any of us have a problem with that? I hope not; it's their sex life and adults should be free to do as they please in their bedroom.

            Let's go a step further. Suppose someone peeked into their window one night, saw this happening, and sent lurid photos to the local newspaper. Is that a valid attack, or did the photographer cross the line?

            So far, I haven't seen any evidence that this guy has done anything in the live-action game that was actually improper - you know, in real life. Has anyone accused him of actually using drugs, threatening to rape someone, or doing anything that anyone has objected to? Has he, in short, done anything worse while playing in the LARP than what Leonardo DiCaprio did while filming The Wolf of Wall Street?

            If so, that's the story, and the LARP is irrelevant. If not, there is no story, and the game is still irrelevant!

            We need to focus on things that are actually important, like his policies. Painting him as a bad guy because he participates in a LARP can backfire, especially if it gets other LARPers in the area to defend him as one of their own.

            Former libertarian...who grew up.

            by RevBobMIB on Sat Apr 05, 2014 at 08:49:00 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  seriously, I don't think there's a danger (0+ / 0-)

              the Christians are pissed that he's being a phony

              the LARPers are pissed that he's a coward

              the rest of us are pissed because he's a self-righteous hypocrite

              I don't think he's going to win his primary

          •  But in monopoly.... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            RevBobMIB

            ....you are driving your fellow businessmen into destitution and don't get me started with Risk let alone Axis and Allies or Africa Corps.  I don't think you want to know the numbers of pawns I've  'queened', bishops I've Financhettoed, or kings I've 'jumped'

            PETA had better no hear of what happened when I lose HORSE.

            We Glory in war, in the shedding of human blood. What fools we are.

            by delver rootnose on Sat Apr 05, 2014 at 09:44:21 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  I dont' understand (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            RevBobMIB, Matt Z

            why reading books with these themes (as well as far worse) is innocuous -- even praiseworthy -- but creating the story yourself in collaboration with others is not.

          •  um . . . there was no gang rape of a maiden (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            RevBobMIB

            None. At all. It never happened. Ever.

            Let's try to keep that in mind.

            (sigh)

            In the end, reality always wins.

            by Lenny Flank on Sun Apr 06, 2014 at 07:12:38 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  No, he just murdered a man... (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Matt Z, delver rootnose

            ...in the Conservatory, with the candlestick.

        •  this reminds me of the big to-do a while ago when (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Matt Z

          some Gopper was "exposed" as playing a Nazi SS officer for a military history re-enactment group. Apparently some of our folks here thought that made him a "Nazi apologist".

          When I pointed out that Confederate Civil War re-enactors do not actually own slaves or defend slavery, that got ME labeled as a "Nazi apologist" too.

          (sigh)

          Some of us, alas, have grape jelly for brains.

          In the end, reality always wins.

          by Lenny Flank on Sun Apr 06, 2014 at 07:11:08 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Well to be fair that... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Matt Z

            ...dude had the symbols tattooed into his skin so it was more than just a costume to him in my opinion.  But to some degree you are correct.

            We Glory in war, in the shedding of human blood. What fools we are.

            by delver rootnose on Sun Apr 06, 2014 at 10:23:30 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I don't recall this . . . . . . . (0+ / 0-)
              dude had the symbols tattooed into his skin
              I don't think we are talking about the same person . . . . .

              In the end, reality always wins.

              by Lenny Flank on Sun Apr 06, 2014 at 03:23:29 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I was talking about... (0+ / 0-)

                ...the dudes who had a nazi part at a Minneapolis restaurant.  The one guy who dressed up as an SS officer was a c rate actor but he also had iron cross and SS tattoos.  So I this there might have been more there.

                We Glory in war, in the shedding of human blood. What fools we are.

                by delver rootnose on Mon Apr 07, 2014 at 01:29:29 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

          •  if you pursue Nazi policies (0+ / 0-)

            like keeping minorities from voting, and then decide to dress up as a Nazi...  it might mean more than roleplay.

            same as if you pursue policies that control women and their healthcare choices, and then write rape fantasies....  

        •  emotional appeals work (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          delver rootnose
          Emotional appeals are cheap. Can't we rise above that, and defend our positions with logic and reason?
          We ourselves are going back and forth on this issue with all the logic and reason and anecdotal evidence we can bring to bear and nobody's mind's getting changed.

          Scare people, cry at them, and anyone who's heart isn't made of stone will mirror your own emotions ... except for a handful who'll reject you because of how bad you make them feel.  Then when they're all riled up and unthinking, you lead them to the polls, into the streets, onto the battlefield, etc.

          Domestic politics is the continuation of civil war by other means.

          by Visceral on Sun Apr 06, 2014 at 08:58:54 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Don't seem to matter with the zanies (10+ / 0-)

    Aqua Buddha didn't even phase their love of Senator Monotone aka Rand Paul. Though in terms of far out this guy takes the cake.

    Never promote men who seek after a state-established religion; it is spiritual tyranny--the worst of despotism. It is turnpiking the way to heaven by human law, in order to establish ministerial gates to collect toll. John Leland

    by J Edward on Sat Apr 05, 2014 at 03:14:01 PM PDT

  •  He'll fit right in, if the current political (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    peacestpete, kurt, Ismay

    climate in Florida is any indication. And probably do well. It's how they do. It would still be a treat to see the fires of hell toasting his satanic ass.

    bring your own petard.

  •  he fits right in (7+ / 0-)

    With all the rest of the republican vampires embracing the beast within.  They do it during the day.  There is no struggle.  Embrace the beast within, vote GOP.

    Republicans: Taking the country back ... to the 19th century

    by yet another liberal on Sat Apr 05, 2014 at 03:55:04 PM PDT

  •  Surely the Democratic Party in this district can (8+ / 0-)

    find a reasonable, presentable candidate to run against this weirdo.  With some publicity it should be a walk-in.

    Feminism--the radical belief that women are human beings.

    by Mayfly on Sat Apr 05, 2014 at 04:01:38 PM PDT

  •  Can we not hate on the LARPers? (19+ / 0-)

    Nobody, or nearly nobody, into LARPing takes the occult seriously. That's Pat Pulling-level bullshittery. (Those who do take it seriously are generally pretty swiftly shunned and removed.)

    Hate on him for his politics, not his gaming. The latter just makes him a nerd.

    "Much of movement conservatism is a con and the base is the marks." -- Chris Hayes

    by raptavio on Sat Apr 05, 2014 at 04:02:58 PM PDT

  •  In other words, he's just a normal GOP candidate (9+ / 0-)

    I am pretty sure being nuts is a prerequisite for running for office as a Republican. The crazier you are, the more touched by god you must be.

    I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires. - Susan B. Anthony

    by pajoly on Sat Apr 05, 2014 at 04:24:25 PM PDT

  •  "Free candy," indeed. (13+ / 0-)

    Honestly, they shouldn't worry so much about what goes on in other peoples' bedrooms. They should focus more on their own tortured and depraved lives.

    It's here they got the range/ and the machinery for change/ and it's here they got the spiritual thirst. --Leonard Cohen

    by karmsy on Sat Apr 05, 2014 at 04:29:24 PM PDT

  •  EL OH EL (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    secret38b, Radiowalla, fou, Matt Z

    While you dream of Utopia, we're here on Earth, getting things done.

    by GoGoGoEverton on Sat Apr 05, 2014 at 04:31:11 PM PDT

  •  so many associate "satanism" with (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    fou, white blitz

    being awful. a lot on that list seems awful.

    the religion satanism (well a few of them, since there are several) doesn't really condone awfulness.

    Dawkins is to atheism as Rand is to personal responsibility. uid 52583 lol

    by terrypinder on Sat Apr 05, 2014 at 05:37:47 PM PDT

  •  Again with the rape bullshit. (17+ / 0-)

    Jesus Christ.  So how does it work, are you not allowed to be a GOP candidate unless you're a rape-obsessed asshole?  Is that a job requirement?  

  •  On the one hand I think this line (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wader, delver rootnose, fou

    of attack is kind of underhanded. The Goopers tried a similar thing with Jim Webb and some inappropriate passages from his novel and we rightly pointed out it is bs. It's kind of hypocritical for us to go after this guy for the same reason, even if his activities are far less socially acceptable than writing a passage about a bad character doing a bad thing in a novel.

    On the other hand, this tactic would work. Seeing this mofo dressed up in vampire regalia would keep value voters away in droves. Yeah, it wouldn't be cool, but I kind of think it might be worth it to keep this nut out of office.

    Why do I have the feeling George W. Bush joined the Stonecutters, ate a mess of ribs, and used the Constitution as a napkin?

    by Matt Z on Sat Apr 05, 2014 at 05:50:37 PM PDT

  •  Hahah Lol! (7+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    BeninSC, Matt Z, ColoTim, eyo, sidnora, mamamedusa, Ismay

    As a fellow Floridian, this diary post made my day :-) I am literally still laughing... even though I too went through a "vampire" phase during my outrageous youth.

    Thanks so much for post this story!

  •  We need this guy in the general election (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cosette, Matt Z, Ismay

    Either he makes it easier for the D candidate to win, or he becomes the weird uncle of the GOP/bagger caucus.

  •  Vampire LARPS can get seriously weird (6+ / 0-)

    Most of 'em are harmless, but that stuff you quoted is plain strange.

    This isn't freedom. This is fear - Captain America

    by Ellid on Sat Apr 05, 2014 at 06:32:10 PM PDT

  •  WTF? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SemDem, Matt Z, eyo

    JayCee. Turn and face the strange. Twitted.
    We can't continue along in this fashion.

    "He went to Harvard, not Hogwarts." ~Wanda Sykes
    Teh Twitterz, I'z awn dem.
    Blessinz of teh Ceiling Cat be apwn yu, srsly.

    by OleHippieChick on Sat Apr 05, 2014 at 07:43:31 PM PDT

  •  Don't care about his in-game fantasies (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jan4insight, SemDem, eyo, Matt Z, Ismay

    But, he's obviously not a "straight shooter" and sounds like a complete idiot when it comes to government and its proper role.

    "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

    by wader on Sat Apr 05, 2014 at 07:47:27 PM PDT

  •  Wow. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SemDem, Matt Z, Ismay

    And I thought Sharron Angle was nuts.

  •  Sounds like you have a #FlipADistrict incumbent (6+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SemDem, fou, Matt Z, eyo, white blitz, Ismay

    there in Ted Yoho. The primary line-up you've described is rich in comedic possibilities -- you really should get this race onto Bill Maher's #FlipADistrict radar.

  •  I think only adults should be allowed to run for (13+ / 0-)

    office.  This is a middle school brat masquerading in an adult body. How ugly!

  •  The problem isn't the LARP, it's the hypocrisy (14+ / 0-)

    Between consenting adults role playing and fantasy is fine. He writes like a frustrated teenager but hey, it's his life. The problem is the hypocrisy of him running as though he is some holier than thou, god fearing, straight shooter, conservative.

    If LARP is part of who he is, then he shoudl own it. Be proud of it. But no, he did his best to try and sanitize his online identity. Also, he claims to be morally superior and wants to dictate how others should live their lives? With freedom comes responsibility. You don't get to pick and choose who gets what freedom.

    He was obviously very public about his LARP identity before, why scrub it all now?

  •  Daaaaayum! What a FREAK! (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    blueoregon, Matt Z, vicki

    I bet that his constituents are still so racist they'll vote for him anyway.

    Let's take bets.

    If this freak wins the primary, he'll get elected. You heard it here first.

  •  Well at least.... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    fou, Matt Z, Alexandra Lynch

    ...he isn't a furry or wear assless leather pants in a pride parade. /sarcasm

    We Glory in war, in the shedding of human blood. What fools we are.

    by delver rootnose on Sat Apr 05, 2014 at 09:52:33 PM PDT

  •  I am just a typical values Republican... (9+ / 0-)

    I stand for the same things you all stand for. Traditional marriage, anti-abortion, abstinence-only education, fighting the homosexual agenda, snorting coke off of cutlery.

  •  i know people who know this guy in real life (8+ / 0-)

    and by all accounts he is a pretty awful and obnoxious human being, whether LARPing or not. admittedly secondhand information, but they were pretty vehement about it.

  •  The diarist nailed it (8+ / 0-)

    Meanwhile there's way too much pearl clutching for what's usually a liberal site. It's like some weird mix of 80s devil panic, tired anti-gamer cliches, and sexual prudishness all rolled up into one cluster of republican style freak out.

    http://jasonluthor.jelabeaux.com/

    by DAISHI on Sun Apr 06, 2014 at 01:20:54 AM PDT

  •  I've noticed.... (5+ / 0-)

    ....that among LARPing and tabletop gaming nerds, most people are pretty liberal, but there's certainly a significant segment who are right-wing libertarians or outright conservatives. My theory for that is basically your response to getting picked on, as so many nerds are. If you think that it's wrong for anyone to be bullied and treated badly, you'll probably grow up to be a liberal. But, if you take that resentment and turn it against women or minorities or LGBT people and become bitter and want to be LIKE the bullies, than conservatism or libertarianism will be attractive to you.

    •  no conservative sees himself as a bully (0+ / 0-)
      My theory for that is basically your response to getting picked on, as so many nerds are. If you think that it's wrong for anyone to be bullied and treated badly, you'll probably grow up to be a liberal. But, if you take that resentment and turn it against women or minorities or LGBT people and become bitter and want to be LIKE the bullies, than conservatism or libertarianism will be attractive to you.
      More like you sincerely believe that turning the other cheek or sitting down and talking your bully's problems through with him either won't work or more likely is wrong by legitimizing his behavior.  You resent the implication that your bully is the one who needs and deserves help, not you.  You resent the people that dispense that message, especially if you see them as trying to make this all about him or worse, turn you into the bully: "You know he can't control himself!  You know he has problems at home!  He's trying to get respect the only way he knows!  He comes from a different culture and you need to accommodate that!  Why don't you be the bigger boy and help him to be a better person?!"

      You turn into - or fantasize about - becoming some kind of righteous warrior: powerful, unflinchingly violent, and beyond all appeal, but dedicated to challenging and destroying "evil" as you define it.  This mentality of judgment and correction or destruction informs a lot of conservative positions - "Why are we rewarding the people who fuck up with more money, more programs, more sympathy, etc.?!"

      Domestic politics is the continuation of civil war by other means.

      by Visceral on Sun Apr 06, 2014 at 09:37:45 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  You know it is rather..... (6+ / 0-)

    ...comforting to know that there are commenters here that have never been to a gaming convention, never played D&D or similar games, never done any role playing fantasy games, never even researched gaming subculture or even shown any interest in a fantasy life yet can speak with absolute moral certitude that people who do this are middle school brats in adult bodies, or freaks, children running around in costumes playing silly games or are evil or into occult or devil worshipers or can't distinguish fantasy from reality are creepy or nuts etc. etc. etc..  I thought jumping to conclusions about people was only a republican or fundamentalist Christian thing.  I am glad to see we as democrats are not falling behind the indignation gap.  It is a handy skill to have when running campaigns based on tropes and straw men.

    We Glory in war, in the shedding of human blood. What fools we are.

    by delver rootnose on Sun Apr 06, 2014 at 05:09:48 AM PDT

  •  Tipped & recced if for nothing more than this (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Matt Z, Ismay
    Dems need to put up a candidate for every damn seat and make a real effort to not give the GOP any easy victory.
    Yes, yes, yes.  And not just for state and federal offices; we need candidates in school board, city and county council offeces, dog-catcher even. This is how we start dragging the Overton Window back toward our side.

    The past 50 years we: -Ended Jim Crow. -Enacted the Voting Rights Act. -Attained reproductive rights (contraceptive & abortion). -Moved toward pay equity. Republicans want to take our country back. I WON'T GO BACK!

    by petesmom on Sun Apr 06, 2014 at 06:50:37 AM PDT

  •  meh, I played D&D in high school, and knew people (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    delver rootnose, Alexandra Lynch

    who hung out at The Castle in Ybor and played "Vampire: The Masquerade". And I still know plenty of cosplayers.

    I'd be more worried if the guy were another of the "Christian patriot militia" kookers who infest Florida.

    In the end, reality always wins.

    by Lenny Flank on Sun Apr 06, 2014 at 06:59:53 AM PDT

  •  Americans are a strange, strange people. (4+ / 0-)

    But I dont see this as any different than the civil war reenactors, or the slavery plantation reenactors. Weird activities for weird people, but oh well.

    Im a big fan of Weird Al Yankovic.

    •  i recall a candidate who dressed up like a Nazi (0+ / 0-)

      for a WWII reenactment.

      The issue here is when you support Nazi policies, like the anti-brown people law in AZ (which, coincidentally, was introduced by an elected official with real ties to white supremacy) then you probably need to stay away from that symbolism

      •  Yeah I didnt make a big deal of it. (0+ / 0-)

        I know these things offend our sensibilities, but I didnt see the big deal. White boys do what white boys do.They like costumes for some reason. I dont get it but who cares.

        Im a lot more offended by the things they do out of costume.

  •  This just puts a highlight (4+ / 0-)

    on a fundamental problem in American politics. If Dems can't run a common sense candidate and beat these nutjobs and felons, then its not because the Republicans are good, its the Democrats' fault.

    The guy walks around shaking hands talking about families and babies. That's not a platform, that's a charade.

    A real candidate would get after jobs, schools, real problems in the hood, whatever they may be. These carpet baggers could never stand up to a person with ideas and a desire to help the community. We need the 50 state strategy right now.

    A true craftsman will meticulously construct the apparatus of his own demise.

    by onionjim on Sun Apr 06, 2014 at 07:32:18 AM PDT

  •  Amen, Amen, Amen (4+ / 0-)
    So dressing up like a devil-worshipper is insignificant to me considering our elected leaders actually worship the devil.
    I think they are serving the devil more than worshiping the devil. They are worshiping $$$
  •  Hey, I used to be a LARPer.... (4+ / 0-)

    ...but then I took an arrow to the knee.

    The word "parent" is supposed to be a VERB, people...

    by wesmorgan1 on Sun Apr 06, 2014 at 08:02:22 AM PDT

  •  Those who think the diarist is "dissing" (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    deep h20, Matt Z, Ismay

    role-playing need to think for a second. Playing games is one thing, using violent, misogynistic references and getting joy from them is simply the sign of a sick mind.
    I can't believe how far our nation has fallen when a guy like this can have even a prayer of winning a seat in the US congress.
    Sad.
    Sadder still will be how many Democrats stay home playing games instead of getting off the couch to VOTE!

    Isn’t it ironic to think that man might determine his own future by something so seemingly trivial as the choice of an insect spray. ~ Rachel Carson, Silent Spring ~

    by MA Liberal on Sun Apr 06, 2014 at 08:13:46 AM PDT

  •  SemDem, you're a LARP hater (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    delver rootnose

    And as bad as Schorsch for pulling out-of-context quotes and pictures to justify your opposition to him, reminding all of us who enjoy LARPing that we don't dare enter into any kind of public arena or have ignorant people like yourself throw our hobby in our face.

    There are no temporary workarounds.

    by Mr Teem on Sun Apr 06, 2014 at 08:41:03 AM PDT

  •  The thing to remember (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    white blitz

    Is things like rape fantasies by those that would want to do it is in line with the other attitudes toward women that the right wingers express. In fact, what they want to do enables rapists to rape, and to reproduce by raping, keeping the genetics in the gene pool.

    It's about domination of others, especially girls and women.



    Women create the entire labor force.
    ---------------------------------------------
    Sympathy is the strongest instinct in human nature. - Charles Darwin

    by splashy on Sun Apr 06, 2014 at 08:48:33 AM PDT

  •  I do not agree with the guy's politics but (5+ / 0-)

    I'm a gamer and this attack is revolting! How dare anyone on this site attack this man for his hobby! This is beyond small minded and pathetic. This just as bad as the right wing Christian nuts who went after me and my friends for playing D&D because it was "satanic."

    Sure it is easy to take a few pictures and quotes out of context and go to town attacking this man but it is wrong and you should be ashamed of yourselves for it. That this diary is on the reclist is a terrible stain on this site.

    •  Agree completely (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      KBS666, ApostleOfCarlin, Matt Z

      Some comments here read like that famous Jack Chick tract against D&D, but they seem utterly serious. We defended Colleen Lachowicz when she was attacked for playing WoW, we shouldn't indulge in the same mud flinging.

    •  It's not about his hobby. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Ismay

      It's about his violent fantasies and how he spoke to women -- and remember, when given access to those with less power (dogs), he acted.

      •  It's clearly been about attacking his hobby! (0+ / 0-)

        The diary barely mention the photo of pointing a gun at a dog or the story involving a rape fantasy, which BTW is still a fantasy and not by all accounts an uncommon one or one not shared by many other men and women.

        The fact is the diarist spent most of the diary going after the candidate for being a gamer. Which is just as vile as it was when the Christian right went after kids for playing D&D.

        •  I'm amused that on a Progressive blog... (0+ / 0-)

          ...we're pretending this is just a fantasy and not harassment of some young woman.

          We have a long, long, long, long way to go.

          •  Was the writing (0+ / 0-)

            directed at a real person or was it something done in character? Do you have so much trouble understanding that people have fantasies they will never act on?

            •  I've been in a LARP. (0+ / 0-)

              People are really careful to distinguish between the person and the character when they want to distinguish between the two.

              People are also really careful not to distinguish when they want to muddy the waters.  This guy's a garden-variety sexually harassing creep.  He just uses the words and concepts created in the world to continue his behavior in the Real World.

              Yes, I know the difference.  But so many here are pretending not to in order to justify unjustifiable behavior.

  •  This attack is just lame (3+ / 0-)

    Look, attacking this guy for his bad LARPing character is just a terrible idea. And hypocritical. Suppose Jack Gleeson decided to run for office sometime, and his opponent said something like "well, anyone who could play such an asshole as King Joffrey on Game of Thrones has revealed that there are parts of his personality that disqualify him from being elected."

    If we really do value freedom of expression, we really shouldn't take his LARPing seriously. Sure, we can mock his bad writing, his terrible taste, but these are utter non-issues. He shouldn't be elected because his ideas and policies are terrible; we shouldn't resort to this kind of geek shaming.

  •  So, a politician is "pretending" to be (3+ / 0-)

    a bloodsucking leech? This confuses fiction with reality.

  •  Cashing in on the Tea Party gravy train. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Militarytracy

    The Supreme Court just made being a "Tea Party Candidate" the most lucrative job in America.

    One election cycle could set you up for life.

    Doesn't Florida allow the candidates to keep donations?

    -7.75,-6.41 Time keeps on ticking, ticking, ticking...

    by owlbear1 on Sun Apr 06, 2014 at 10:35:00 AM PDT

  •  This diary reminds... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    protectspice, Matt Z

    ...me of Rudy Juliani in drag.  The odd things that come to my mind.  I must be sick in the head.

    Eegads, you are right gaming does corrupt your mind.

    We Glory in war, in the shedding of human blood. What fools we are.

    by delver rootnose on Sun Apr 06, 2014 at 10:42:42 AM PDT

  •  I've been a gamer for 25 years... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Matt Z, KBS666

    ...and nobody's ever taught me real spells.

    Excuse my shameless diary-pimp...

    http://www.dailykos.com/...

    And can we stop the ridiculous LARP-bashing? The problem is not with LARPs, it is with Jacob Rush.

  •  Sometimes I don't know what to say (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Matt Z, Ismay

    Because I would never have believed some things were possible.  I think I'll just sigh right now.

  •  *eyeroll* (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    belinda ridgewood

    I've played in and run Mind's Eye Theater games for far longer than I care to admit.

    I usually advocate for LARPing and the fact that it can be a safe space for some weird sh!t.

    At it's best, it's a great hobby. It's make-believe for grown-ups and a lot of fun.

    That said, I never had any time for the Sabbat vampire variant of Mind's Eye Theater - which Dark Lord Wannabe Congressman was playing - because it was, in truth, too much of a magnet for folks who seemed to be interested in playing little Alex's gang from "A Clockwork Orange"

    And I definitely can't believe that this nitwit didn't think to memory hole anything with even a whiff of controversy about it before deciding to run for office. sigh

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