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Rally, person holding sign.
Kevin Drum riffs on a theme that has truly interested me of late:
Over the last half century, various branches of government have also taken plenty of proactive steps to marginalize religion. Prayer in public school has been banned. Creches can no longer be set up in front of city hall. Parochial schools are forbidden from receiving public funds. The Ten Commandments can't be displayed in courtrooms. Catholic hospitals are required to cover contraceptives for their employees. Gay marriage is legal in more than a dozen states and the number is growing rapidly.
His point is that liberals have won the culture war, and we have. Conservatives are left trying to justify their cultural relevance by pathetically disassembling box office receipts like this. (Did you know that Tina Fey and Ricky Gervais are "two of the most divisive actors working today"?)

And it goes deeper than what Drum writes. Liberal social values are deeply embedded in our culture, from pretty much everything on TV outside the Christian channels at the fringe of the channel lineup, to any movie of note. In that Breitbart link above, Nick Nolte waxes about God's Not Dead, an indie Christian film that has grossed $41 million on a production budget of $2 million. Good job! Then again, it's a blip. Captain America has grossed nearly half a billion in 10 days, with its overtly civil-libertarian and anti-neocon message. I mean, Captain America is saying that a fear-based (read: Republican) foreign policy is not the "American Way."

For a crowd that flinches at any notion of sex, it's gotta be impossible to escape sexual imagery, from advertising to media to Miley Cyrus' latest whatever-the-hell she is doing. And seriously, don't listen to song lyrics. I flinched hearing my six-year-old daughter sing along with Flo Rida's "Whistle." She was too little to understand what that song was really about, but at some point, she will. I'm not the kind of parent overly concerned with "protecting" her from that sort of thing, but if you are, it's a tough world out there.

On economic matters, the pendulum is swinging hard against the financial elite. There's a reason we get regular installments of "billionaire calls economic populists Nazis." They were used to being paragons of society. Now they are the enemy. And with populism on the rise, and with talk of income inequality routine, Reaganesque "trickle down" theories are decidedly out of favor. Why do you think Republicans are afraid to roll out their "solutions" to our problems? It's because they know their views, whether on health care or immigration or pretty much anything else, are out of touch with public opinion. Sure, there is infighting in their caucus, but it's a fight between those who think conservatism is popular and being loud-and-proud will be politically advantageous (e.g. Ted Cruz), and those who know how to read the polls.

That's not to say that we've WON won. We certainly have won the battle of ideas. But power isn't just about ideas. It's about wrestling the institutional levers of government from the retrogrades. Those entrenched economic and conservative interests wield power via the Supreme Court, through gross gerrymandering, through voter suppression efforts. So we've got a lot of work ahead of us.

But if you wonder why conservatives seem to carry perpetual grievances, it's because they know they have lost. The entire world around them has left them behind. Heck, they've created an entire alternate media world in which to cocoon themselves. But they know they've lost. They may still alternate between the "denial" (Ted Cruz) and "anger" (Bill Donohue) phases of acceptance, but the only question left is how long will it be before our government truly represents the public will. And when that happens, we'll be truly able to ignore the perpetual tempter tantrum from the Right.

Originally posted to kos on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 11:24 AM PDT.

Also republished by Daily Kos.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (225+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Its the Supreme Court Stupid, side pocket, commonmass, justiceputnam, alguien, elwior, Syoho, ebbet, poco, Thinking Fella, Matt Z, NedSparks, Vatexia, Steveningen, phenry, doroma, hannah, Gowrie Gal, annieli, Sylv, CanadaGoose, Via Chicago, Susan from 29, cordgrass, Dave in Northridge, ferg, gmats, misshelly, edwardssl, millwood, Witgren, LibrErica, Joes Steven, MKinTN, Paragryne, CoolOnion, ZedMont, fayea, fugwb, SuzieQ4624, Smoh, joedemocrat, numble, chicating, DiesIrae, Bule Betawi, Odysseus, mjd in florida, eztempo, dewtx, Redfire, librarisingnsf, ichibon, Phillyfreedom, ceebee7, Lying eyes, Alice Venturi, SaintC, Gardener in PA, Jon Sitzman, wxorknot, kj in missouri, wayoutinthestix, ZappoDave, Mr MadAsHell, kerflooey, annominous, sprogga, implicate order, Laurel in CA, collardgreens, markdd, starduster, cotterperson, Dolphin99, Gary Norton, Cadillac64, Cuseology, eagleray, glitterscale, Siri, david78209, eeff, Bridge Master, Bluesee, gramofsam1, mookins, Debbie in ME, Hohenzollern, anodnhajo, camlbacker, Chun Yang, wishingwell, i saw an old tree today, Cali Scribe, Panbanisha, helpImdrowning, PatConnors, OLinda, GAKeynesian, Nebraska68847Dem, lilsky, Shotput8, Onomastic, suzq, a2nite, FDR in 08, whl, Bill in Portland Maine, Railfan, AnnieR, GreenPA, MHB, ColoTim, Mike RinRI, bear83, Bob Duck, Involuntary Exile, dawgflyer13, rat racer, offgrid, mlangenmayr, sea note, cybersaur, blueoregon, TheMeansAreTheEnd, smoothnmellow, Vicky, Zwenkau, Jollie Ollie Orange, FindingMyVoice, foresterbob, terremoto, gof, gammarock, dotdash2u, Curt Matlock, twigg, MyMy, jayden, leonard145b, Snarky McAngus, Take a Hard Left, myboo, Birdman, Elizaveta, virginislandsguy, skepticalcitizen, defluxion10, nadd2, rsmpdx, The Marti, bartcopfan, Vico, walkshills, here4tehbeer, Keep It Simple, vcmvo2, richardvjohnson, SpriteSuzi, Chrislove, bythesea, Linda1961, Clive all hat no horse Rodeo, duhban, Lencialoo, delbert, Galtisalie, RLF, kkkkate, shesaid, ChocolateChris, pixxer, GreyHawk, Noodles, aitchdee, thomask, pucklady, hbk, maybeeso in michigan, Liberal Thinking, exNYinTX, WakeUpNeo, yoduuuh do or do not, Idaho Guy, Angie in WA State, techiechick, Lordcaradoc, sb, dot farmer, democracy inaction, flumptytail, jrand, rapala, MagentaMN, Terri, MadEye, WSComn, bbctooman, groupw, mconvente, Penny GC, Teenygozer, ladywithafan, Andrew F Cockburn, reasonshouldrule, theskepticarena, raspberryberet, stvnjon, SilentBrook, War4Sale, Thal3s, kvnvk, zootscoot, doug r, Deeliberate, Aunt Pat, SherrieLudwig, Gwennedd, Jake Williams, sebastianguy99, skyounkin, dewolf99, dalef77, twocrows1023
    •  money out of the election process? (6+ / 0-)

      won't happen until we evolve.

      -You want to change the system, run for office.

      by Deep Texan on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 11:51:32 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Faster evolution = Backlash! (20+ / 0-)

        Noodling around in my brain lately is the idea that may be why the Kochs have been pulling out all the stops. They know the demographics are against them, too.

        Nah, I'll never give up ;)

        "Let each unique song be sung and the spell of differentiation be broken" - Winter Rabbit

        by cotterperson on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 12:47:06 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Evolution is just a theory (15+ / 0-)

          / snark

          "Reality has a well-known liberal bias." - Stephen Colbert

          by Rob Dapore on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 12:54:01 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  cotterperson. (11+ / 0-)

          Plus, they have the Supreme Court loaded to suit their objectives.

          They want footholds where they can establish them; Wisconsin and Kansas are examples of "Oligarchy Democracy".

          While those two states represent a tiny faction of population, electoral votes, and people, the laws they pass and get certified by Supreme Court decisions will take decades to contend with.


          I got kids in this world; I cannot give up!

          Suddenly, it dawns on me, Earnest T. Bass is the intellectual and philosophical inspiration of the TeaParty.

          by Nebraska68847Dem on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 01:11:25 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  This is temporary (20+ / 0-)
            they have the Supreme Court loaded to suit their objectives.
            as long as Dems win the White House in 2016.

            The 4 oldest Supremes are Ginsburg (81), Scalia (78), Kennedy (77), and Breyer (75). 2 Clinton appointees and 2 Reagan appointees on a 5-4 court.

            Nobody lives forever - we have to hold the White House to switch the court majority and turn the tide on things like money=speech and voter suppression.

            Election Day is Nov 4th, 2014 It's time for the Undo button on the 2010 Election.

            by bear83 on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 01:33:13 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I am agnostic (16+ / 0-)

              but I thank God for Ruth Bader Ginsburg every morning I wake to a new day.

              Suddenly, it dawns on me, Earnest T. Bass is the intellectual and philosophical inspiration of the TeaParty.

              by Nebraska68847Dem on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 01:39:56 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I wish she's retire with Obama in office though. (5+ / 0-)

                And Breyer too.  (And of course any of the rightwing 5, but they wouldn't voluntariily.) It's not cynical to want a Dem to replace you, it's realistic, and good, and (in today's climate) patriotic.  Thurgood Marshall wanted a Dem to replace him, and held out as long as he could; Byron White (himself no liberal but still a Dem) retired soon after Clinton took office.  Ginsburg and Breyer are gambling with the nation's future if they don't let Obama name their replacements.  I know it sucks, and I hate it, but it's true.

                "Happiness is the only good. The place to be happy is here. The time to be happy is now. The way to be happy is to make others so." - Robert Ingersoll

                by dackmont on Tue Apr 15, 2014 at 04:02:00 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  Replace the first three with solid liberals (6+ / 0-)

              And all of a sudden a lot of 5-4 decisions are 6-3 in our favor.  

              A desperate disease requires a dangerous remedy.

              by Guy Fawkes on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 05:33:06 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  doubtful (5+ / 0-)

              While it's too complex for a post: Bill Clinton targeted the poor, giving us 8 yrs of Bush, elected and re-elected by the middle class. The poor voted third party or withheld their votes. The poor did overwhelmingly vote for Obama; based on his prior work with poverty and the poor, it was hoped that he could launch a legitimate discussion about US poverty. That didn't happen, and lib media continued to wave the Middle Class Only banner. With the latest budget, 89 Democrats voted to cut food aid to the elderly, disabled and working poor.  Again. That's a lot of votes to throw away.  Again.

              •  It was not as simple (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:

                As you make it out to be.

                "We are all cut from the same cloth."

                by doug r on Tue Apr 15, 2014 at 07:56:35 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  Bush II (0+ / 0-)

                GWBush was not elected to his first term; though the news agencies tortured the data in their 'analysis' to be able to say we would have been stuck with him anyway, in 9 of the 12 scenarios they ran Gore won the election.  By that point the media (owned lock, stock, and barrel by the far right since sometime in the 1990's) did not dare show the decision of the Supreme Court in December of 2000 for what it was, an unconstitutional appointment by them of Bush.  Clinton had not truly 'targeted' the poor, he had simply signed some bills that he should have vetoed because he was assured by the Democrats then in Congress that it was the best they could get out of the Republicans (or that what the Republicans would follow them with would be even worse).  Even so, he was able to get a modest tax increase on the 1% enacted, which was the main impetus of the budget surplus he left that Bush deliberately squandered.

                As I've already noted, the media has not been liberal for many years (with some notable exceptions), and the right just keeps beating that dead horse because so many people are afraid to admit that truth.  The people are slowly (far too slowly) waking up to what the right is up to.  That is why the right is in such a hurry to cement Congressional majorities now; they know that if they cannot take both houses in this midterm, it lessens their chances to be able to take the White House in 2016, and also lessens their ability to fight off demands for amending the Constitution to restore corporations to their proper role as simple legal fictions and remove the massive influence of unlimited money from our elections.

            •  Impeach (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Gwennedd, cotterperson

              Why doesn't the powers that be start impeachment proceedings against the 5 Republican justices. It is a well know that one and  or more of them attend regular private meetings at the oil Koch brothers ranches to plan Republican political strategy and with other rich Republican donors for the same reason. Their actions show that they can not be impartial and actually base their decisions on their Republican party leanings not the Constitution. Also why aren't we hearing an outcry to replace the  Constitutional law that  gives them a lifetime job on the Supreme Court bench to one that sets how long a someone can be a Supreme Court Justice and one that makes it easier to replace when they make decisions like Citizens Untied and the McCuthinson decision. There are children as long as 10 that know those decisions cause corruption and they ask  why we adults aren't doing anything to stop it.

              VOTE NOVEMBER 2014

              •  Why not impeach the conservative justices? (0+ / 0-)

                Simple - impeachment proceedings must be initiated by the House, which is controlled by the Republicans. Impeaching their rubber-stampers on the Court is the last thing they'd do.

                Republicans - A pathology, not a party.

                by storeysound on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 10:52:42 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

          •  Wisconsin (8+ / 0-)

            Other states should learn from our (Wisconsin's) example.  The state took a rightward turn in the 1980s, electing and re-electing rt. wing extremist Tommy Thompson for governor. The state took a break with conservative Dem Doyle, and then chose rt. wing extremist Scott Walker.  Results: During this time, WI farms have fallen like dominoes, and our once-thriving manufacturing jobs have been shipped out.  The state has steadily grown poorer, and the impact has rippled through our once-outstanding education system, etc. The former dairy state, a former powerhouse of manufacturing, on a steady downhill slide.

          •  Desperate Need For SCOTUS Checks & Balances (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            The current situation in the SCOTUS has revealed a flaw, possibly a fatal flaw, in our Constitution. Everyone Left or Right knows the situation. The SCOTUS has gone completely off the reservation. They have declared themselves to be an independent legislature (UN ELECTED) with the power to re write all our laws thru idealism based "interpretations" of the laws. The soul of jurisprudence & Common Law is precedent. 100 years of reasonable efforts (precedents) to keep money out of politics & conserve the bedrock concept of our Republic tossed out the window at the behest of the Oligarchs. "Government of the people, by the people & for the people" is not just a catch phrase. It represents the deepest intent of the Founding Fathers. If this perversion of the court is allowed to stand the SCOTUS will become the instrument of doom for our entire government. No law can be considered safe from tampering by such a court. This must be addressed in a fair & permanent manner. Forget repealing 'Citizen's United'.  That is small potatoes. The entire authority of government is being subverted. The runaway court has assumed the powers of the other two branches. The Constitution needs desperately to be amended so that a runaway court can never endanger our Heritage again. I leave the form of that amendment to the Constitutional Law experts, there are several possible approaches. This is not about left or right. Surely even the most conservative  of opinion who love our country & who are the short term beneficiaries of the current power grab must realize that a higher goal than the current power squabble is at stake. This runaway court & any future runaway court must be stopped by revision of the Constitution they have chosen to trample on. There is precious little time to act before we lose all that we have achieved as a nation.

            •  SCOTUS (0+ / 0-)

              The far right noise machine is convinced that only by taking and keeping power in their hands will the country continue.  They have drunk their own Kool-Aide far too deeply, and now cannot see the way back to sanity.  If this were a liberal court making rulings of this sort, they would be screaming at full volume about how these 'activist judges' are distorting the law and legislating from the bench.  Isn't it interesting that when they are getting what they want it isn't so wrong?

        •  No backlash (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          It's not going to happen, and Occupy showed us why. What began as an extraordinary people's movement was quickly redefined (mainly by Dems/lib media) as a middle class movement alone. The rest of us walked away, and Occupy fizzled out. The US shipped out a huge chunk of our working class jobs, and then Clinton wiped out basic poverty relief. The middle class applauded. Dems and lib media promptly raised the Middle Class Only banner. Our situation today: What the rich are doing to the middle class is simply what the middle class already did to the poor. This time, the proverbial "masses" have been deeply divided. Who will push back, and against whom?

          •  Disagree entirely with this. (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            brainburst, cotterperson, londo10

            I was involved in Occupy Oakland in the early days.  I can tell you that in my area, Occupy fizzled out because it embraced "diversity of tactics" which included smashing up businesses and provoking OPD.  Many of the people involved weren't interested in winning concessions and reforms that might help poor people, but wanted to instigate riots and start a full-scale revolution.  Ultimately, they scared people away from the movement.  Despite our anger at the status quo, most people around here, including myself, did not want to see our city go up in flames.

            Feel trickled on yet?

            by War4Sale on Tue Apr 15, 2014 at 06:30:38 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  ????? (0+ / 0-)

            Why are you so intent on bashing Clinton?  He made the best he could of what turned into a bad situation, in large part because the far right saw him as an opportunity to paint the left as worse than the right.  Whitewater was supposed to be a slam-dunk that would allow them to 'prove' how bad Liberals were supposed to be.  When that turned out to be exactly what the Clintons had always said it was, a real estate idea gone bad where even they lost money, the far right was so deep into the cesspool of their own creation that they could not retreat without losing face totally with their dupes.  Starr was given the mandate to find anything to hang on Clinton, and various far right politicos did their best to beat the bushes for anyone who would be willing to come forward for the right amount of money with their tawdry little stories.  True, Clinton didn't do himself any favors getting some oral action from Monica, especially when she proved to have very loose lips afterwards, but that entire debacle actually hurt the far right more than it helped them.  That they were able to turn it around and, with some help from a SCOTUS willing to take a case that they had no Constitutional authority to take, and retake the White House in 2000 was nothing short of a miracle of media manipulation.  Maybe you should aim your anger in the correct direction?

        •  Faster evolution (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          The Devil is a defeated foe, Maya is an illusion, doesn't stop either from mouthing off, their divisive thoughts, our job is not to buy it, that's how we stay on the path. View them as an enlightenment tool, thank them(non-response can be seen that way, and that will really put them in a tail spin.

        •  They are also getting old and don't have as much (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          time to do whatever it is they want to accomplish before dementia sets in, if it already hasn't.

          "The economy and the environment are, in fact, permanently intertwined. A healthy economy depends on a healthy environment. Can't have one without the other." -- Meteor Blades

          by politically indigo on Tue Apr 15, 2014 at 10:33:37 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Maybe it will (0+ / 0-)

        if we can get all "our" money that Corporations have parked in overseas accounts and, if we get out the vote for Dems in State and local elections, we can change repressive voting laws.

        By the way,  for Midterms, well there is so little information about times and places for voting that people miss it  .

        Thank God that the Koch Brothers involvement in many states is creating more information than is  typical for Mid-terms. The money is just not there for basically State and local elections.

        The President should continue "campaigning" as though he were running during the midterm .

      •  I believe one of the Supreme Court Justices said (0+ / 0-)

        That in this internet age it should be easy to find out whose money is backing whom. But that seems to have fallen by the wayside.

        "We are all cut from the same cloth."

        by doug r on Tue Apr 15, 2014 at 07:41:11 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Exactly! Public funding of campaigns and strict... (12+ / 0-)

      lobbying regulations are the only way we will be represented again.

      I am trying to start that movement to get this to happen (as my sig shows) but I have found few allies thus far.

      Join the DeRevolution: We are not trying to take the country, we are trying to take the country back. Get the money out of politics with public financed campaigns so 'Of the People, By the People and For the People' rings true again.

      by fToRrEeEsSt on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 12:47:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  that and stop the propaganda from the (18+ / 0-)

      right owned media.  The way they twist the truth is stunning and destructive.

      Don't know if it's possible.  My right wing sister has bought into it hook, line and sinker.  She hates us.  And he hate keeps growing with each new lie she's told about us.  To see it is kind of scary.  To see her vote against her own interests because of that misinformation and her growing hate, with each election, is stunning.

      The GOP will destroy anything they can't own.

      by AnnieR on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 01:21:51 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  There has to be a way to enlighten those viewers (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        raspberryberet, londo10

        we just haven't found it yet.

        It's much easier to unite people around their fears and hates than it is around their opportunities.

        •  You don't have to enlighten anyone (0+ / 0-)

          Progressives don't get it. The whole idea that the left is enlightened and the right is not, smacks of elitism. People will vote against their self interests in shortsighted reaction to perceived insults. It is natural human behavior, not unique to the right. The only difference is that the lefts anger aligns with their self interests.

          •  The Best & Brightest (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            in Behavioral Psychology are probably working for Koches & Turd Blossom. The money shifted them from selling you toothpaste to selling you Corporate Political Rat Poison. Those people can & do know how to sell refrigerators to Eskimos. They know how to push your buttons that you don't even suspect you have. Dr Goebbels would be awestruck at what they can accomplish.

          •  Yes, we do have to enlighten many. (0+ / 0-)

            And we Progressives actually do 'get it,' as you say.  Those who fail to get it are the ones who will lose all when the time comes to rise against the oligarchs, for they will be on the wrong side of history.

    •  Even half way there would be giant steps (3+ / 0-)

      Make it morally, politically, socially repugnant to buy a seat for office. We need a push for a system where public financing outstrips private money by limiting expensive 'free' speech. And where none of it goes through the hands of the candidates or the parties. No money from lobbyists and strong, no nonsense laws that keep PACs and such from coordinating. No more politicians with PACs.

      Demand that starting with (more and certainly better) Democrats, all the time, to where it might become a primary issue one day. Where it becomes an issue the media has to cover. Anecdotally I know quite a few conservative friends, neighbors, and family who are also sick and tired of special interest money corrupting government. And Democrats will adapt quicker than Republicans will to that change if we start the ball rolling now.

      We will not eliminate all money, that's chasing unicorns, but we can demand strict annual limits that give billionaires no greater advantage over the average citizen. More money will always bring more influence, but we need to get it down to very little.

      •  Require all corporate political spending (0+ / 0-)

        To be in alignment with all shareholders wishes. Corporations leverage shareholder dollars against the political interests of shareholders. If they must insult corporations are people then the people's voices must be represented.

    • (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Sign their petition!

    •  And all religion is out of government. (0+ / 0-)

      The reality is that organized religion has marginalized itself by trying to insinuate itself into government.  True, it has always been there to an extent - until people became enlightened to the differences in cultures and belief systems, most of us were unaware that the "basic religious tenents" were actually the beliefs of the majority but not of everyone.  As such, when these tenents were expressed in governmental facilities, they constituted establishment of religion in violation of the first amendment.  As we became aware of these violations, generally by no-brainer Supreme Court decisions on cases brought by people who resented having someone else's beliefs forced on them, these expressions were removed from the public arena.  I don't know why these Tea-party fundamentalists find the establishment clause of the First Amendment so difficult to grasp.  This clause was so important to the drafters of the US Constitution that it is the first clause of the First Amendment:  "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion...", before the "free exercise" clause.

    •  Liberalism (0+ / 0-)

      The victor, I'll lend my support to Kevin, it sure can not hurt.

  •  Must suck living in a world that has left you (74+ / 0-)

    behind. A lot of the conservatives in my life are absolutely livid at the imaginary force that has taken their precious anglosaxon protestant male power "away" from them. What they don't realize is nothing was taken away from them. Just because one group of people become equal to you does not mean you have "lost" societal power or resources. To the conservative, where the game of society plays by zero-sum rules, it looks from their perspective as if they have lost something they were long entitled to.

    Its funny, because they call my generation the generation of entitlement. From my view, we are the generation of equality, and they are the generation of entitlement. What, you want power just because your skin is white, your ancestry is from the right places, and you have a dangly piece of meat between your legs?

  •  Want to make... (23+ / 0-)

    Listen to The After Show & The Justice Department on Netroots Radio. Join us on The Porch Tue & Fri at Black Kos, all are welcome!

    by justiceputnam on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 11:33:38 AM PDT

  •  The verdict's been in for a while just that some (13+ / 0-)

    Democrats have been running for the covers and hiding under Republican talking point. Like "Obamacare rollout was bad, it was bad bad bad!"

    7.5 million people just don't care!

    •  Well Ned, it WAS bad. Even a month after it (0+ / 0-)

      opened, my daughter and son in law could not get on the exchange, and had to buy more expensive insurance from their current insurer with no competition, or be without any health insurance.  Their hope - maybe next year the ACA exchange will be available in Freeport Maine.  
      Of course the fact that Maine has a governor who used full executive power to screw up the ACA did not help, but still, the federal government should be able to provide a workable signup within a month even in a red state.  

  •  It will never be final because the fear of (7+ / 0-)

    the Cons is endemic. They've got to be confrontational to hide their insecurities. They've got to demand more than they're going to get because they're afraid they'll get nothing. And, since all most of them have is the gift of gab, they've got a point. The gift of gab and good hair will only take one so far.
    Will we still love them when they're 64. Sometimes, all that agitation over Social Security just seems designed to get us to tell them, once more, that the answer is 'yes.'

    by hannah on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 11:36:16 AM PDT

  •  The war ain't nearly over (25+ / 0-)

    I agree with pretty much everything you say, Kos.  The pendulum always swings.  There are always differences in the way things shake out, though.  Time, place, and circumstance can alter the swing.  This time, it's the right's ownership of media and five-ninths of a Supreme Court.  Who will win in the end?  Stay tuned.

    Odds and ends about life in Japan:

    by Hatrax on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 11:36:49 AM PDT

    •  You should also (35+ / 0-)

      mention the truly dark side of conservatism that has the brown shirts waiting in the wings (witness what just happened in Nevada.) for the next economic collapse or for the next major social upheaval (think of how they might react in the event of a terrorist attack using nuclear devices or other WMD's).

      There are still manifold perils to liberal democracy out there, not the least of which is, as you mention, the rightward leaning of a Supreme Court which is only one appointment away from a NeoCon majority.

      We should also not lose sight of the fact that we face a radical and well heeled opposition that is willing to tank the economy in service of their ends, not to mention employing voter supression and tactics like the gerrymander to attack the electoral process and render it a distortion of the common will.

      This is not the time for "Mission Accomplished" banners. I doubt that liberalism will ever reach that elevated place. Eternal vigilance has always been the watchword.

      "PLEASE STOP EATING ANIMALS" Fourth Grader's Crayon Poster.

      by Pirogue on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 11:51:23 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Winning a war leads to many casualties. That... (8+ / 0-)

      ...alas, is my great fear: how many will suffer and die because the privileged don't want to lose their privileges?

      I'm not even talking metaphorically (though there is that aspect, too). A wounded predator will strike out with every tooth and claw. This past weekend's events in Kansas will, I fear, be repeated in even bloodier massacres before the haters concede. And the Feds backing down in Nevada will only encourage the crazies that craziness is an effective weapon.

      NEW PALINDROMIC METAPHOR MEANING TO MAKE A PREDICTION THAT IS ASTOUNDINGLY OFF TARGET: "Pull a Gallup!" As in: "The weatherman said yesterday would be sunny and mild, but we got a foot of snow! Boy, did he pull a Gallup!"

      by Obama Amabo on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 11:59:40 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  It mutates (6+ / 0-)

      And it's mostly about identity.  They lose on so many issues, but they manage to tie white ethnonationalist identity to their party, and that's what makes them so dangerous.

      And the numbers of people who deny climate change or evolution actually seem to be increasing.  I agree that this is a positive diary and much of it is true - but the right wing is based on manipulating fear, especially fear of minority status, to coalesce and keep themselves going.  That is very dangerous.

      “If the misery of the poor be caused not by the laws of nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin.” Charles Darwin

      by ivorybill on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 12:59:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  It won't be over until they're out of power (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      offgrid, ORswede

      They've lost a lot but they still rule too many states and the Federal government.  They have prevented economic recovery, and they've driven economic policy so far to right it will probably take decades to recover.  The Supreme Court decisions will likely stand for a generation or more and those will continue.  They haven't really lost everything until they lose across the board in the voting booth. And that may not happen anytime soon.

  •  I hope you're right (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Matt Z, whl, MHB, Ellid
  •  In the culture wars (27+ / 0-)

    liberalism has won.

    Except abortion. Christian conservatism is gaining ground on us.

    Economics? Conservatism is winning, and we're being crushed.

    Guns? Whackadoodle right-wingery has won.

    Foreign policy? There's a battleground where the victor isn't decided yet.

    But 'culture'... well, yay. We won.

    "Much of movement conservatism is a con and the base is the marks." -- Chris Hayes

    by raptavio on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 11:43:21 AM PDT

    •  Yep Youth Barely Support Abortion Rights, Low (6+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      raptavio, Matt Z, Adam B, whl, johanus, YucatanMan


      We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

      by Gooserock on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 11:53:54 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  But they support birth control (9+ / 0-)

        Support for abortion should be low.  Abortion should never happen.

        Unprotected sex, unless a married couple wants to get pregnant, should not happen.
        Rape and incest should not happen.

        The prerequisite for an abortion is an unplanned pregnancy.  Take that away, and there is no abortion.

        Is the youth support for banning birth control and having unplanned pregnancies also in the low 50's?

        Come on, looking at support for abortion as support for liberalism is like saying people don't support healthy living because they don't support open heart surgery.  There are better ways.

        •  Support for the *right* to choose the procedure. (10+ / 0-)

          C'mon, Norm, you're usually slightly more accurate than this.

          •  He makes a decent point though. (4+ / 0-)

            Pointing out that the Right insists they are opposed to abortion, yet they steadfastly refuse to support ANY of the measures that would reduce unwanted pregnancies starts with an understanding that both sides of the debate would prefer that the need for abortions was rare.

            I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
            but I fear we will remain Democrats.

            Who is twigg?

            by twigg on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 03:03:07 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  "Abortion should never happen." (10+ / 0-)

          that absolute statement is absolutely incorrect.

          "From single strands of light we build our webs." ~kj

          by kj in missouri on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 12:40:10 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  At least in the sexually liberal circles I run in (6+ / 0-)

          contraception is seen as being a given, and condoms for disease prevention unless the people are mono/polyfidelitous. No one likes abortion any more than having a root canal, but we're sure glad both are legal and relatively accessible if necessary.

          When you come to find how essential the comfort of a well-kept home is to the bodily strength and good conditions, to a sound mind and spirit, and useful days, you will reverence the good housekeeper as I do above artist or poet, beauty or genius.

          by Alexandra Lynch on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 12:52:28 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  In an ideal world, (12+ / 0-)

          of course such things should never happen.

          But they do.

          Birth control can fail.

          Women do get raped.

          We do have incest (and no, it's not consensual regardless of what asshole Republicans claim).

          And the woman's body doesn't automatically "shut that thing down". Heck, I'm 55 and I'm still having the occasional period, enough that I still pick up the random pack of condoms at the pharmacy just to be on the safe side.

          Bill Clinton said that abortion should be "safe, legal and rare." Note he put the "safe" and "legal" before "rare".

          There's only one rule that I know of, babies -- goddammit, you've got to be kind. -- Kurt Vonnegut

          by Cali Scribe on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 12:59:42 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  And not all babies are healthy (4+ / 0-)

            I once read a heartbreaking diary here on Kos (I think it was by William Harrison) about how every hospital used to a ward that housed children with horrible birth defects that would kill them by inches.  These wards don't exist because nowadays the worst birth defects are diagnosed by ultrasound and amniocentesis and the parents have the option to terminate.  

            This isn't freedom. This is fear - Captain America

            by Ellid on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 01:38:26 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I know a couple (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              FindingMyVoice, phoebesdatter

              who had to make that terrible choice due to one of those defects (in this case, spina bifida). It's terrible, but denying them the option is much worse.

              "Much of movement conservatism is a con and the base is the marks." -- Chris Hayes

              by raptavio on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 02:05:14 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  And 40% of children (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              do not develop a "secure" (trusting, constructive) attachment bond with their parents.

            •  ^^^^^^This^^^^^ (0+ / 0-)

              Abortion is NOT ALWAYS about unwanted, unplanned pregnancies and I had to have 2 because the babies would never have made it through the birthing process and even IF they did manage to be born alive, they would have been so deformed and needed so many procedures to last two minutes. And yes, we did get second opinions and yes, my first child was stillborn. So please STOP with absolutes until you have walked a minute in my shoes.
              I happen to have 2 beautiful, healthy children so all was not lost but there just happens to be a big hole in my heart for my children passed. Thanks for opening that wound and pouring some salt in for good measure with your opinion NinC...
              Peace and Blessings!

              “When you victim-blame, be aware that in all likelihood, at least one woman you know and love silently decides she cannot trust you.” ` Steph Guthrie

              by Penny GC on Tue Apr 15, 2014 at 11:07:02 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  In a perfect world people all use B.C. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Vicky, bananapouch1, rhauenstein

          But in this world, if abortions are not legal, they have them anyway, and that is just an inconvenient truth. The book Freakonomics emphasizes that the crime rate was going sky high until Roe V Wade kicked in and unwanted children were reduced and the "crime wave" was slowed way down. Unwanted children are rarely discussed in depth by pro-lifers. Sure, some adopt children, so great for them, but most don't. Liberals do not support abortion. They support a woman's right to choose to have one. Some people have to insert their viewpoints and beliefs into everybody else's lives. That would be the pro-lifers, creationists who want it taught in school, Christian Righters who want prayer instead of analysis. Rarely does anyone force anyone to have an abortion. I know of some men who have coerced and pressured their girlfriends or wives to have them. They happened to be Christian conservatives, but hypocrisy never stopped a Christian or a conservative before. Liberals are not pro-abortion and conservatives are not morally superior to liberals.

    •  Foreign Policy You're Kidding? (14+ / 0-)

      Republicans may not have won but Christ we're still paying for the ongoing Cold War a generation after our enemy collapsed. Everybody on the planet is now a terror suspect and the rules of war apply within our borders to US citizens. At least some do.

      Foreign policy and militarism is the greatest victory of conservatism of them all.

      We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

      by Gooserock on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 11:55:40 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I'm inclined to agree (13+ / 0-)

      America becomes more polarized by the day.  Progressives are winning some battles, but (at best) holding ground on exceptionally important issues like income inequality and economic issues in general.

      I see no will on either side of the aisle to change the status quo on issues that have the most significant long term impact and relevance.

      That's not to say that the battles won have been unimportant.  However, my take is that the culture wars over the past 20 to 30 years have been a very intended (and well executed) distraction from the core issue - neoliberal economics - that's at the root of all evil.

      •  In anything as complex (7+ / 0-)

        as American politics, I find any statement that there's one core issue at the root of it all to be, at best, a gross oversimplification.

        American economic policy of the last 30-35 years is a hugely important issue, however you want to label it, "neoliberal" or otherwise (I've come to loathe the term myself, as it's been fairly abused to the point where its meaning is diminished). Income inequality has grown to that unseen since the Roaring 20s, and that's crippling us in many ways.

        But there's a lot more going on. There's no one core.

        "Much of movement conservatism is a con and the base is the marks." -- Chris Hayes

        by raptavio on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 12:06:54 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I was very careful with my last sentence (10+ / 0-)
          the culture wars over the past 20 to 30 years have been a very intended (and well executed) distraction from the core issue - neoliberal economics - that's at the root of all evil.
          You may not like the term "neoliberal economics", but it's out there, and it's well understood in the battle between Keynesian adherents and Chicago School snake oil salesmen.

          Guess who's winning that particular battle?  The snake oil salesmen.

          The culture wars were purposefully fomented for a single reason: to sneak neoliberal economic policies past a low-information general public.  Ergo, the true root of everything that has sprung from the conservative agenda since at least Reagan, and to some degree, as far back as Nixon.

          •  And you lost me. (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Lying eyes, DiesIrae, vcmvo2

            You've veered into CT and I won't follow you there, even to rebut. Sorry.

            "Much of movement conservatism is a con and the base is the marks." -- Chris Hayes

            by raptavio on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 12:28:11 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  No CT there (12+ / 0-)

              Read up a bit on Lee Atwater and then move forward into Naomi Klein's "Shock Doctrine".

              I've been following this stuff for most of my adult years (I'm 60-ish), lived through the decade of raging Harvard Business School / Michael Hammer dissembling of a functional system of trade unions, and watched in awe as religious fundamentalism grew roots from the fringe and enabled the culture wars.

              No CT there.  None of it happened by accident.  It's been the result of a decades long Faustian bargain between the 1% and faith-based wingnuttery.

              •  Generic "read up on XYZ" (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:

                is not compelling to me.

                I know very well about Lee Atwater, thanks.

                "Much of movement conservatism is a con and the base is the marks." -- Chris Hayes

                by raptavio on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 12:54:40 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Some recommend reading "the Powell Manifesto" (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  ORswede, LiberalLoner

                  The Powell Memo (also known as the Powell Manifesto)

                  The Powell Memo was first published August 23, 1971

                  This was not an accident by far.  "Teh Gay, teh Guns, teh God" were ginned up to turn people out to the polls. Nothing more.

                  The goal of those doing the turning out was to advance their economic agenda.  And while the culture wars have had mixed successes one way or the other, the economic agenda of Neoliberals has advanced completely unchecked, even after the greatest recession since the Great Depression.

                  Prior to that memo, the Chamber of Commerce was more often about Main Street issues.  After that memo, the US Chamber of Commerce became engaged, along with ALEC and others, in national movement to establish an economic system benefitting the wealthy. And they have succeeded.

                  There's no CT to the Chamber of Commerce, the Kochs' funding, the Coors' funding, Aldelson's funding, ALEC, the Heritage Foundation, and all the rest.  Are they all the one and same thing? No.  But they are working toward the exact same goal.

                  That's not CT.  That's reality.  We ignore it at our own peril.

                  "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

                  by YucatanMan on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 05:43:04 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Your thesis (0+ / 0-)

                    is not supported by the Powell memo.  It is true the Powell memorandum may well have been the primary impetus which resulted in greater corporate lobbying and think-tanking, but Powell's zeal to wage the culture war seemed pretty darned genuine.

                    I really am not interested in playing this game. Both Hanlon's and Occam's razors suggest your claims need evidence which you aren't providing.

                    "Much of movement conservatism is a con and the base is the marks." -- Chris Hayes

                    by raptavio on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 06:21:17 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

        •  Actually,given how often 'following the money' (5+ / 0-)

          explicates both policy and politics in the US, I don't see all that much complexity.

          "George RR Martin is not your bitch" ~~ Neil Gaiman

          by tardis10 on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 12:28:24 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Then I would suggest (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Via Chicago, DiesIrae

            you're not looking hard enough.

            People looking for a Grand Unified Theory in the political realm are going to find it by simple self-selection of data points and confirmation bias.

            People looking critically and skeptically are going to find much more of a sausage factory.

            "Much of movement conservatism is a con and the base is the marks." -- Chris Hayes

            by raptavio on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 12:32:55 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  & I would suggest that you (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              aren't seeing enough.
               But then,I know how to make excellent sausage and while it isn't necessarily a pretty process it isn't particularly complex.

              "George RR Martin is not your bitch" ~~ Neil Gaiman

              by tardis10 on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 12:42:33 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Depends on the sausage, now innit? :D (0+ / 0-)

                Regardless, sausage with a single ingredient is pretty crappy sausage.

                But it's just a metaphor.

                I'd agree though -- one of us isn't seeing enough.

                "Much of movement conservatism is a con and the base is the marks." -- Chris Hayes

                by raptavio on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 12:47:43 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

    •  i think liberals are winning on economic policy (4+ / 0-)

      Far as public opinion goes but we need to translate that into votes. If we haven't won I don't think we are being crushed. I don't think many people buy into trickle down. They may not want middle class taxes raised but they know the republicans and corporations are not on their side.

    •  You are mistaking (31+ / 0-)

      tangible results with public opinion.

      We are the majority on choice. I know the polls show weakening support among young people, but the strongest pro-choice numbers in the 2012 exit polls were ... among young people. Go figure. And the strongest numbers of all? Among Latinos, the fastest growing demographic in the country.

      Foreign policy, a top Republican (Paul) is running on isolationism.

      Guns? Public opinion is firmly in favor of sensible controls.

      Economics? Again, public opinion is on our side.

      As I wrote (and perhaps you read), there are institutional roadblocks to translating that public opinion into tangible policy. But public opinion is the first step, and makes fighting for control of the levers of government much easier.

      We don't have to disenfranchise voters to win.

      •  I worry about events - what events could tilt (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        public opinion back toward conservatives? For example, a 9-11 style event - it's ripe for hysteria that the GOP is very good at whipping up and taking advantage of.

        What could "scramble the board"?

        "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

        by We Shall Overcome on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 12:18:57 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I hear you, Markos, (14+ / 0-)

        and having popular opinion on our side is important.

        But at the same time, those "institutional roadblocks" seem to be the controlling factor; with those in the way, "popular opinion" feels to me to be something akin to the "moral victory" that a losing candidate sometimes claims.

        With McCutcheon hot on the heels of Citizens' United, the power of popular opinion may carry less impact. With gerrymandering run amok, and nearly everywhere but Maryland it having run amok in support of the GOP, that impact is dissipated even further. And the corporate media are all too happy to inform the public that war is peace, ignorance is strength and freedom is slavery, making it harder for people who support our ideals to know which candidates also support those same ideals.

        As you put it, we won, but we haven't WON won. It's hard to say the pendulum is swinging hard against the financial elite when public opinion be damned, their power over our political sphere has never been greater.

        Basically, what I'm trying to get at -- and I think you hinted at this in your diary but presented it more optimistically, and of course said so more directly in your comment -- is that democracy itself is under assault now, by the same people who have functionally lost the war for public opinion. If you can't win the hearts and minds of the American people, render them irrelevant.

        And my counterpoint is this: We haven't won until we've WON won.

        Thanks for replying.

        "Much of movement conservatism is a con and the base is the marks." -- Chris Hayes

        by raptavio on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 12:26:49 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  The process of electing governments (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          raptavio, DLWinMI

          has sustained the GOP either in power, or with significant influence on policy, ever since the Republic was created.

          The very fact that they are reduced to attempts to engineer the process now, to retain any semblance of relevance, is telling.

          They can, and probably will do a great deal of damage over the next few years ... maybe even the next generation; but as a long-term proposition they are done.

          This country will move forward to a much more "European" style of social democracy, because it is inevitable. America will find its own way there, and Europe has had longer to manage it.

          Once we start down the path of expanding the idea that we are a society that should care for each other, and ObamaCare, Medicare, SS and Medicaid are examples of that, if imperfect, the people simply will not go back.

          So I tend to share Markos' optimism, even if today it sucks!

          I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
          but I fear we will remain Democrats.

          Who is twigg?

          by twigg on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 03:13:09 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I think our future (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            is much less certain, and definitely not as inevitable as you seem to believe.

            I hope history bears you out though.

            "Much of movement conservatism is a con and the base is the marks." -- Chris Hayes

            by raptavio on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 03:16:39 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Here is why I am confident (2+ / 0-)

              of the outcome, if not the time-scale.

              There are only two directions we can go from the monopoly capitalism we currently "enjoy".

              The current situation is breaking down, and the evidence is all around .... the economic downturns become more severe with each cycle, and the wealth inequality continues to grow exponentially.

              When it finally breaks, we will get either a social democracy, or fascism. This pattern has exhibited itself in most of the developed world ... Germany, Italy, Spain are good examples.

              If it breaks to Fascism (perish the thought), then that situation is, or at least always has been, temporary. South Africa, Nazi Germany, Italy in the 30s, General Pinochet, American Deep South with slavery .... etc.

              I don't think that America would allow the rule of law to be corrupted quite to that extent because the country is too vast, too diverse to unify in that manner.

              Which leaves a shift back to the center with younger generations that will push it further and faster than our fathers in the Labor Movement could.

              I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
              but I fear we will remain Democrats.

              Who is twigg?

              by twigg on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 03:25:08 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  Er, how and when do any of these preferences (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Ezekiel in Exile, Boogalord, dfarrah

        for progressive solutions translate into actual laws and policies?

        Other than passing and implementing the conservatives own healthcare ideas with, admittedly, some important citizen friendly tweaks, what economic victory has the left won in forty or fifty years?

        •  Such an ugly question. (4+ / 0-)

          Not one that people here like to consider.

          how and when do any of these preferences for progressive solutions translate into actual laws and policies?
          My answer would be "when Democrats actually propose and fight for such law and policies". I'm kind of confused why they haven't been doing it for a long time now, since, you know, we've "won" and the public is on our side. Sorta makes me wonder why we've been buying into deficit hysteria for the past six years when we could have been pulling for the minimum wage increase that whole time.

          Obstructionist Republicans are no excuse. It's called "controlling the discourse", even if you can't get the law passed. That's what many people here don't get.

          •  The answer is that power and wealth (0+ / 0-)

            are seductive.

            One day we will elect Democrats (call them anything you like), who understand that power and wealth are illusory.

            We would call them "better Democrats", but the reality is that they are simple people, who understand they are elected to represent the people.

            I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
            but I fear we will remain Democrats.

            Who is twigg?

            by twigg on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 03:15:27 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Climate change is going to run out the clock (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              ORswede, raspberryberet

              on us waiting for

              Democrats (call them anything you like), who understand that power and wealth are illusory.
              There are few years left in which to make solid impacts.

              Once panic and shortages kick in, the default will be toward "order and safety."  And which way will that go?

              We're already seeing viruses kill off millions of pigs, droughts limiting the supply of beef, fruits and vegetables. Parasites, new illnesses, and opportunistic territorial invaders (foreign insects, etc) are spreading.  Climatic zones are shifting; the most rapidly at the Arctic, but everywhere.

              Fresh water will be threatened by reduced snow packs.

              We're doing pretty much zero about this now. And now is when we must move confidently and stridently toward solutions.  However, there are pretty much zero politicians in sight who are willing to do so. There aren't even many who are willing to say we need to do so.

              "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

              by YucatanMan on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 05:49:40 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  There's less connection between opinion and (0+ / 0-)

        policy than either one of us would like.

        For example, an overwhelming percentage of Americans said that alcohol was far worse for a person's health than marijuana, yet a lot of them still want to keep marijuana illegal and alcohol legal.

        I'd love to see someone with those views explain that dichotomy.  (I've always wanted to see a talking pretzel.)

        Democrats have been winning on policy for years, yet many people vote against the candidates whose policies they favor, for reasons that make no sense to me.

        •  inertia (0+ / 0-)

          and fear of change are underrated influences on public policy. Marijuana is illegal and both of the above explain, to me, why so many don't want to make it legal even though they don't think it's particularly dangerous.

  •  not a Pyrrhic victory we will win the war if only (3+ / 0-)

    because we tell the truth (more)... Happy Dance!

    Warning - some snark may be above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 "I’m not the strapping young Muslim socialist that I used to be" - Barack Obama 04/27/2013 (@eState4Column5).

    by annieli on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 11:47:25 AM PDT

  •  We've won the war, and are losing the peace. (6+ / 0-)

    And it was exactly as expected.

    "There are many truths of which the full meaning cannot be realized until personal experience has brought it home." John Stuart Mill

    by kuvasz on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 11:47:45 AM PDT

  •  I wish you were right, but I am not sure. (10+ / 0-)

    On social issues we are winning, but the vitally important economic issues are not making progress.

    The problem is that on economic issues, conservatives do not have to do anything, just block any progressive measures.  If they do that, concentration of wealth and power will continue.

    I see no prospect that the conservatives will lose the House of Representatives in the near future.  Plus there are still way too many Democrats who think we need to placate the financial industry or the economy will implode (or they will lose their campaign money).  The average person does not follow this stuff the way we do, and ends up either not voting out of cynicism, or voting by gut instinct without much understanding of the consequences.

    The longer the concentration of wealth and power continue, the harder it will be reverse it.  I am afraid that eventually we will end up with some US version of Putin, who will preserve the oligarchy and use jingoistic foreign adventurism to distract the majority of the population.

    Maybe I'm just too pessimistic by nature.  The truth is that no one can really see the future that clearly.  But it took the Great Depression to put the New Deal into office.  I hope we don't have to go through something like that for change to happen.  Plus, we got lucky that the change that happened during the Depression was FDR.  We could have gotten something a lot worse.

    "The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." Bertrand Russell

    by Thutmose V on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 11:49:03 AM PDT

    •  Not only that - we're not only being blocked by (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      dfarrah, gulfgal98, chuckvw, aliasalias

      conservatives from seeking progressive solutions to economic issues:

      >  The Sequester, damaging to so many social programs and progressive/liberal causes, originated in this White House.

      >  Chained CPI, cuts to Social Security and Medicare for those who can least afford it and are least able to fight back, originated in this White House.

      >  Permanently enacting the majority of the Bush Tax Cuts, establishing a less progressive tax structure and entrenching trickle down theory, originated in this White House.

      >  Appointing "the Cat Food Commission," headed by two opponents of Social Security and a particularly harsh long-term opponent of the New Deal and liberal economic policies was originated by this White House.

      >  Negotiating the TransPacific Partnership, including 700 corporate representatives who work in secret setting up conditions that the US Congress is not even allowed to know, originated in this White House. US formally joined in 2011, in fact, well within Obama's presidency, well under his span of control to decide how best to participate.

      There's zero liberal agenda there.

      As others have noted, while having expanded insurance coverage for millions of people and definitely having several important citizen protections included, ACA is essentially the Nixon, Romney, Heritage Foundation "health care" plan.

      The economic list of losses to conservatives could go on, but the point is that this is not a liberal or progressive administration on economic issues by a long shot.  For those who doubt, Obama has stated in his own words, that he is a strong free trader. That's Reagonomics at work. Free trade and free markets are all a part of the Chicago School - the voodoo school of trickle down economics.

      "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

      by YucatanMan on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 06:11:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Okay, so let's just see if I follow correctly, (8+ / 0-)

    After their disastrous showing in 2012, they do an autopsy to figure out where they went wrong.  They don't like the results so they determine that they were right all along and they just need to do a better job of selling their message which is the right one.

    Also, because they do have the right message, it is necessary to keep people who don't understand that theirs is the right message from voting.

  •  agreed (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kj in missouri, flumptytail

    -You want to change the system, run for office.

    by Deep Texan on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 11:50:22 AM PDT

  •  I see a pattern in which the right (7+ / 0-)

    attempts to legislate its culture war only to have it shoved back into its face because it is unconsitutional.

    My guess is that if they would have left it all alone they wouldn't be where they are now. Karma - it sucks for them.

  •  I like good news too. (13+ / 0-)

    but until the New Deal Consensus is restored (truly progressive taxes; stimulus accepted; fair minimum wage; real regulation) it's hard to say we've "won."

    On the other hand, as Bill Kristol feared, the ACA has potential to turn the tide away from anti-government policies back to the New Deal Consensus.

    We'll know the tide is turning when the Governors and State Reps who refused Medicaid expansion are recognized as the monsters that they are.

  •  Any victory we've won can hardly be permanent (6+ / 0-)

    especially when our foe doesn't consider the war over until he's won. And especially when so many aspects of our "victory" resemble victories for the other side.

    How can we say we've won the battle of ideas when the punitive philosophy of austerity still holds sway? When our government's conduct drifts farther and farther away from fundamental standards of human rights and fair play? When the great lesson taught by the Voting Rights Act seems to have been, "Just wait it out -- this too shall pass"?

    "The great lie of democracy, its essential paradox, is that democracy is the first to be sacrificed when its security is at risk. Every state is totalitarian at heart; there are no ends to the cruelty it will go to to protect itself." -- Ian McDonald

    by Geenius at Wrok on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 11:58:42 AM PDT

  •  Absolutely (14+ / 0-)

    All you have to do is look at the increased level of vitriol coming out of the anti-LGBT right. In a classic case of projection, now anyone who even THINKS the word "bigot" is a bully to these people, who have done nothing but bully US for decades.

    That's why voter suppression, and refusal to expand Medicaid, and the Holly Hobby case, and everything else that's designed to roll back the clock. Because rolling back the clock is the only thing that will save them, and it's NOT going to happen.

    Seneca Falls, Selma, Stonewall

    by Dave in Northridge on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 12:00:07 PM PDT

  •  Scares 'em ta death (5+ / 0-)
    Liberalism has won
    don't it?
  •  I'm 56... (11+ / 0-)

    ...and the world of the New Deal, New Frontier, and Great Society came crashing down as I was growing up. I've spent a lifetime living in a world politically controlled by conservatives and their dreams for a life that is brutish and short.

    I need the world Kos envisions to become apparent soon before I'm gone...

    •  The pendulum is swinging back toward the center (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      lanshark, twigg

      Looking back, I think it started the day that Bush signed the Terri Schiavo law.  

      This isn't freedom. This is fear - Captain America

      by Ellid on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 12:21:59 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I feel your pain Bro. Not only does the stupid (0+ / 0-)

      hurt, it kills.

    •  Amen (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      offgrid, YucatanMan, ORswede

      My first Presidential vote was for Jimmy Carter against Ronald Reagan, and it feels that we've been fighting to hold our flank ever since then.

      I had hopes in 2008 that the disaster of the Bush Administration would finally break the dam and we would enter into a new era of progressive ascendancy. But I misread how deeply racism still matters on an emotional level in this country... I think in some ways, the President's identity and the irrational fear of the changing nature of the American electorate resulted in an uglier backlash than I would have thought possible.  That's why I think immigration reform is probably doomed for another 5 years at least.

      But how long do we wait?  Three and a half decades have gone by since Reagan.  I don't want to retire before conservatives are repudiated.  I have another ten or fifteen years of active work and political life, and it makes me impatient.

      “If the misery of the poor be caused not by the laws of nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin.” Charles Darwin

      by ivorybill on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 01:07:10 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Even Markos said (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ivorybill, YucatanMan

        it will "be decades." All 3 of us will likely be dead before the ship is righted, if it happens at all.

        "Lone catch of the moon, the roots of the sigh of an idea there will be the outcome may be why?"--from a spam diary entitled "The Vast World."

        by bryduck on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 02:08:33 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  And here's the thing that kicks this concept (5+ / 0-)

          in the behind:  Climate Change.  Decades to bring about a real liberal / progressive rule?  Really?  By then, the catastrophes of climate change will have cut that short.  The masses will chose security over liberal issues, safety and militarism over starvation, illnesses, water shortages, rising seas, intense storms, etc.

          "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

          by YucatanMan on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 06:18:11 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Which likely means a 100 year reign of (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          Reaganism and trickle-down.  If we are lucky, long after we are dead, capitalism will completely collapse, if all of civilization doesn't collapse first.  And that will finally be the end of Reaganism as voo-doo economics.  But fat help that will be to any of us.

          "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

          by YucatanMan on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 10:13:03 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  This is why I sometimes (0+ / 0-)

            would prefer (or at least don't fear) letting things blow up now. Losing the other 2 branches of the government? Oh, well, that will only hasten the destruction that I see happening in slow motion now. At least then the rebuilding process would start sooner, and with more people behind making the serious alterations we need. Climate change will require those any way, and the sooner we adjust, the less effect it will have on us.
            This is why I don't support incrementalism or compromise with the crazy right wing; the first doesn't take CC into account, and the second is counterproductive at best.

            "Lone catch of the moon, the roots of the sigh of an idea there will be the outcome may be why?"--from a spam diary entitled "The Vast World."

            by bryduck on Tue Apr 15, 2014 at 09:15:00 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  For now, it is simply a vision. There's nothing (0+ / 0-)

      in sight that brings that world about. One of the essentials being left out is the tendency for every demographic group to become more "conservative" (in the real sense of the word) as they age.  It is a very superficial projection.

      "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

      by YucatanMan on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 06:15:52 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  It's even bigger than that, (2+ / 0-)

    According to Jeremy Rifkin, whose new book is getting a lot of press over at HuffPo, the economic system of capitalism itself is nearing the end of its run, and its inevitable demise will be caused by the inexorable economic pressure of zero marginal cost rather than outside political pressure.  I wrote a recent diary reviewing the book

    So if cultural conservatism is dying and capitalism is dying, it's no wonder that conservatives are starting to feel paranoid, and coming up with outlandish CT like Agenda 21

    •  Not only that (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cordgrass, twigg

      They are well aware that their core audience, elderly white Christians, is dying off, year by year.  Right now they're desperately trying to codify as much of their agenda into law as possible because they know very well that in ten to fifteen years they'll have lost to time and demographics.

      This isn't freedom. This is fear - Captain America

      by Ellid on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 12:23:29 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I beg to differ on economic issues (11+ / 0-)

    Let's see the 'wins' for conservatives on economic issues:

    1.  NAFTA screwed over so many blue-collar workers it is frightening and there is NO chance of turning back that tide;

    2.  Effective corporate tax rates are their LOWEST pretty much in a long, long time;

    3.  THE MOST IMPORTANT for conservatives: THE BUSH TAX CUTS ARE NOT EVEN 'ON THE TABLE' all and they won't be in 2016 (an election year no less).  That is the GREATEST VICTORY FOR CONSERVATIVES and the one they cherish the most.

    4.  Citizens United, Citizens United, Citizens United.  End of story.

    What does this tell me: the blue collar, working class religious conservative is HOSED.  Hosed economically by his own party and losing the culture war.  That's why Breitbart is populated with seething nut jobs.... they ARE angry and they are desperate.  

    Culture wars?

    Yes, we have crushed them on gay marriage.  Game over, it's only a matter of time - and they know it.

    Abortion?  No chance have we 'won'.  That battle rages on and, to be honest, we are LOSING in this battle.

    Diversity?  Yeah, we have the momentum and will for some time.

  •  It doesn't feel like we're winning when (4+ / 0-)

    THE Sergeant Major of the Marines is spouting right wing memes to justify screwing over military families.

    •  Not quite (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ahumbleopinion, lanshark, DLWinMI

      First, he's the Sergeant Major of the MARINES, the smallest of the services.  The Sergeant Majors of the Army, Navy, and Air Force did not agree with him, and frankly, they all have more personnel to consider and more clout (especially the Sergeant Major of the Army).

      Second, he's getting creamed not only by a Marine spouse, but by his own service's publication.  That right there indicates that he's on the losing side.

      This isn't freedom. This is fear - Captain America

      by Ellid on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 12:26:30 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  When the war on drugs ends... (7+ / 0-)

    And when every single non-violent drug offender is released with an apology and reparations for their life that's been stolen from them, then I'll say that we've won the culture war.

    Still a very long way to go.  But we are making progress.

    •  they broke the law (0+ / 0-)

      reparations aren't necessary. Letting them go would do.

      •  I disagree (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        YucatanMan, Tonedevil

        The government had no legal right to ever ban drugs in the first place.  It's none of the government's damn business to tell consenting adults what they can and cannot do with their bodies.

        In a sane world, all drug laws would have been ruled unconstitutional decades ago.

        Not only that, I submit that all drug bans have only made the problem worse.  Caused an extremely violent black market to exist, caused even more harmful drugs like Meth to be cooked up.

        Not only would I give reparations to everyone jailed for drugs, I'd give reparations to everyone who had a parent or child killed by gang violence, which is near 100% fueled by the drug trade.

  •  Maybe this is why they're trying so hard (4+ / 0-)

    to prevent people from voting

  •  Liberalism won - Then it's time to act like it! (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ivorybill, offgrid, Vicky, YucatanMan

    democrats should stop spouting the canard that this is a right leaning country!

    Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell. --Edward Abbey

    by greenbastard on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 12:21:12 PM PDT

  •  And... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    just like that, flumptytail

    ...on top of it all Kos' claim that Nick Nolte  was writing at Big Hollywood actually sent me over there for the first time in several years.

    Then I found out it was just that Beautiful Loser, John Nolte.

    Thanks, Kos.

    •  Yep - John Nolte not Nick Nolte (0+ / 0-)
      In that Breitbart link above, Nick Nolte waxes about God's Not Dead, an indie Christian film that has grossed $41 million on a production budget of $2 million.
      Nick Nolte was actually in the movie Noah as the voice of Samyaza, the leader of the fallen angels.  Who better to give voice to a tarred rock ?!
  •  God, Guns, and Gays. (0+ / 0-)

    That segment of the population that is obsessed with those three things have blinders on and nothing, and I mean nothing is more important to them.

    I particularly note god, and guns because for some fucking odd reason those two go together like milk and cookies to the whackadoodles.

    Breaking it down further to just "god" and all bets are off folks. Whenever I hear fundies proclaiming god in a sentence I know any chance that a well meaningful conversation is over. When you have god on your side in a fight against "whatever" it disolves into 15th century thinking on their part.

    My greatest fear comes from the Christian right wing and their need to overcome at all costs. Because holy flying spagetti monster...We all have to be saved and everybody else is godless, except them. Dangerous crappola in spades.

    Thankfully we are seeing change for the good for our Gay bretheren, but don't think for a minute that we still don't have a long long way to go.

    "We can either have democracy in this country or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." Louis Brandeis

    by wxorknot on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 12:26:28 PM PDT

  •  Agree (9+ / 0-)

    i am privy to a lot of people's stories and i do my best to keep them private unless given permission to share... but today i am going to break that self-imposed rule and share what i heard this morning.

    a pastor, a man who makes no secret of his right-wing leanings, told a group of us today (each one in some way affected by the shooting in our community) that he choose to marry two gay men in the this past year.  he said he had expected to be voted down by his council, but he wasn't, and he hoped he would continue to break away from he has come to see as culture of hate.  he said he was full of gratitude for the Jewish community that welcomes and hosts our little group. he said on this day, he couldn't have been prouder, as a Protestent minister, to walk into a Temple and said he hoped he'd be taken to be a Jewish man.

    it's a small story.   it's one man.
    but to me, that's the whole point.  Rush and Glenn, you are dinosaurs.

    transformation happens and it will keep happening.

    "From single strands of light we build our webs." ~kj

    by kj in missouri on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 12:27:01 PM PDT

  •  Bundy ranch (0+ / 0-)

    I just want to know when the government will force that crazy guy at the Bundy ranch to pay his bills.  Seize his bank accounts?  Hire sharp shooters to kill all the cattle?  Put liens on his ranch?  Just do something!!!!

  •  someone should tell the corporations (10+ / 0-)

    about this.  Because they act like they've won.  

    Because they have.

    •  Did you know, for example, that the Supreme (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      dfarrah, aliasalias, raspberryberet

      Court has all but destroyed any chance of class action suits against major corporations even for intentional acts like violating contracts, overcharging or not providing what they've promised?  

      The remedies that the little person had in the past are long gone, and few realize it.

      "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

      by YucatanMan on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 06:21:44 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  We are only winning on social issues (10+ / 0-)

    ... and this is because a lot of the 1% aren't racists, have gay people in their families or are gay themselves, and don't want their kids busted for pot.  This is a good thing. The people with all the power can support us on those issues because it doesn't hurt their bottom line.

    But Democratic politicians have been happily going along with letting Wall Street take more and more of the economy, and have hardly lifted a finger to stop union-busting.

    •  Good point plus a lot of the 1 percent are for (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Ezekiel in Exile, YucatanMan

      easy access to birth control and while some of that 1 pct are religious, that is not a universal theme. I think they , like the Republicans, just use the Right wing religious people for their own purposes.  

      But on social issues, some of the richest people are liberal on social issues but downright radically right on economic issues and fair pay and so on.

      Keystone Liberals on Twitter @ KeystoneLibs , Join PA Liberals at

      by wishingwell on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 01:07:32 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The one percent, and especially the 0.1%, don't (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      dfarrah, gulfgal98, raspberryberet

      give a rats ass about social issues at all.

      They're after the money. And they've got the system locked down under their control.

      "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

      by YucatanMan on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 06:22:33 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  and neoliberals have won where it counts (6+ / 0-)

    holding the controls of all levels of government.

    Hillary does not have the benefit of a glib tongue.

    by The Dead Man on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 12:38:08 PM PDT

  •  ...and Sharia Law should not be allowed ... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    FDR in 08

    to invade America, and Islam is not a religion, blah, blah, blah, so says the persecuted Christians.

    Over the last half century, various branches of government have also taken plenty of proactive steps to marginalize religion. Prayer in public school has been banned. Creches can no longer be set up in front of city hall. Parochial schools are forbidden from receiving public funds. The Ten Commandments can't be displayed in courtrooms. Catholic hospitals are required to cover contraceptives for their employees. Gay marriage is legal in more than a dozen states and the number is growing rapidly.
    No religion should 'invade' our SECULAR government. Thank you, U.S. Constitution.

    Try explaining to your pet slug that you just had escargot for dinner.

    by glb3 on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 12:44:42 PM PDT

  •  Look at the IPCC report just out (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    FDR in 08

    The question here is special interests and the use of money to pull the wool over people's eyes versus science.

    The difference between a selfish parochialism and a universal identification with the human race on a planetary scale.  

    In that sense, liberalism is winning, because it is about the tradition of fact based assessment and inter-observer testing.

    Conservatives have decided to reject the scholastic tradition that allowed the Judeo Christian culture to rise out of the ignorance of the Medieval Dark Age and instead embrace the sort of thinking that was behind burning witches at the stake.

    It could probably have gone the other way.  

    But special interest money that has set about an organized effort to hold back progress in terms of regulating pollution has corrupted conservative preachers who love the money.  

    That was and is at odds with the Jesus that people think of as liberating and enlightening, and thus a figure that encourages freedom of thought and knowledge seeking.  

    The current conservative movement has doomed itself to irrelevance, and to attempting to get an electoral majority based on a coalition of the fearful and the neurotic.  

    Does anybody know anymore what a legitimate conservatism would actually be?

    hope that the idiots who have no constructive and creative solutions but only look to tear down will not win the day.

    by Stuart Heady on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 12:54:25 PM PDT

  •  Liberalism may have won (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    But I fear that the intelligence that goes with it is nowhere in site at times.

    If we do not have both, are we winning?

    •  I agree. (0+ / 0-)

      I strive to turn the conversation from the agenda of the "others" and promote "the rest of story".

      Keep talking it up... we have the right ideas.

      Suddenly, it dawns on me, Earnest T. Bass is the intellectual and philosophical inspiration of the TeaParty.

      by Nebraska68847Dem on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 01:05:09 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Fascinating (3+ / 0-)

    All his examples of "marginalizing religion" turn out to mean "no special privileges given to MY religion:"

    Prayer in public school has been banned. Creches can no longer be set up in front of city hall. Parochial schools are forbidden from receiving public funds. The Ten Commandments can't be displayed in courtrooms. Catholic hospitals are required to cover contraceptives for their employees. Gay marriage is legal in more than a dozen states and the number is growing rapidly.
    By the way, as a religious person, I find the notion of forced "prayer" in public schools to be utterly blasphemous. It's not really prayer when you're just having them recite the words.  Actual prayer happens in the heart, and if I can tell the difference, we can safely assume that God can.

    City halls and courtrooms should not privilege one religion over others.

    And my same-sex marriage was performed by a Christian minister.

    I shall die, but that is all that I shall do for Death; I am not on his payroll. - Edna St. Vincent Millay

    by Tara the Antisocial Social Worker on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 12:56:26 PM PDT

    •  most prayer is lip service anyway (0+ / 0-)

      my parents sent me to catholic school my whole education. I never gave a thought to the prayers.

    •  They're just too lazy to get their kids (2+ / 0-)

      up early for family prayer/Bible study.

      When I was in high school and going through my fundie phase I got myself up an hour early to do my daily Bible reading and to pray, before heading for the shower and breakfast in time to ride my bike or take the bus to school (depending on weather). My late father-in-law rose an hour early for centering prayer and meditation before getting my mother-in-law up and ready and heading for work; he didn't expect his bosses at HP to carve time out of the workday for corporate prayer.

      There's only one rule that I know of, babies -- goddammit, you've got to be kind. -- Kurt Vonnegut

      by Cali Scribe on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 01:22:17 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Exactly! It's about religious liberty (1+ / 0-)

      The prohibition against government establishment of religion isn't anti-religious. It's about freedom of religion. The people who wrote the Constitution didn't want to repeat the European experience where every state had an official religion and you could be persecuted for worshipping otherwise. That's why the puritans left England.

      And for good or ill, religion has flourished in the US, where we have a much higher rate of church going than in the European countries that are officially Christian.

      When school board meetings begin with a prayer that invokes the name of Jesus, when there's a crèche at city hall, religious Jews or Muslims or whatever are being excluded and disrespected just as much as atheists. Maybe more, because they are being asked to participate in what, to them, is blasphemy.

  •  Liberalism may have won in the court of... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Boogalord, YucatanMan, paytheline

    public opinion, but we still need an actual liberal party to represent us (and no I don't mean the Green).

    Yes I know in social issues we are truly represented, now if only we could be represented in the 80% of issue types.

    We need to sincerely and honestly admit and thank the Dems for their stands for gay rights and other social issues, while at the same time holding their feet to the fire for being repub light on economic, foreign affairs, general constitutional rights,etc...

    I always feel like I am being put in a position of "Hey they got this right, shut up about all the wrong".

    We will never get good government that way...

    Join the DeRevolution: We are not trying to take the country, we are trying to take the country back. Get the money out of politics with public financed campaigns so 'Of the People, By the People and For the People' rings true again.

    by fToRrEeEsSt on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 12:59:09 PM PDT

  •  It's feel-good time, Markos. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Ezekiel in Exile, YucatanMan

    When you whet your finger and hold it up, you can feel the direction of the wind. That you've done.

    But while you feel the wind on your finger, you're nearly being swept away by the river in which you're standing. And it's not flowing in the same direction as the wind is blowing.

    There a wide, deep river of cash that's flowing all around you, Markos, and it's flowing to the mouth of fascism where we'll all drown, no matter how strong the wind is blowing.

    Of course I'd like to see it differently, but as we now know from the Supreme Court, money talks loudest. Ideas? Not so much.

    We all need a lot of luck and tragedy to reverse the river. Yes, tragedy.

  •  Excellent piece, Markos! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Your ability to have your nose down hard on the grindstone and then to look up and see the entire mountain in an acute vision is remarkable.

    I agree.

    The American people agree with our side.

    Suddenly, it dawns on me, Earnest T. Bass is the intellectual and philosophical inspiration of the TeaParty.

    by Nebraska68847Dem on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 01:03:04 PM PDT

  •  it's so dumb that even liberals spout this (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    KJB Oregon
    Prayer in public school has been banned
    when it's not entirely true.

    kids want to organize prayer groups for before/after school or do some little quiet prayer thing to themselves? they are more than welcome to.

    Dawkins is to atheism as Rand is to personal responsibility. uid 52583 lol

    by terrypinder on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 01:04:49 PM PDT

    •  In theory, mandatory public prayer is no longer (0+ / 0-)

      conducted over the PA system, but in reality, it happens all the time at convocations and other speeches that are deemed to have ceremonial and non-denominational purposes. Religious coercion by teachers, and especially coaches, remains alive and well in the public school systems of many communities...and woe on the person who dares to challenge it.

      Just doing my part to piss off right wing nuts, one smart ass comment at a time.

      by tekno2600 on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 01:29:56 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  i firmly believe that all victories (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    in politics are temporary, chiefly because if you got everything you wanted then you're primarily on defense.  It's what happened to abortion. We won the whole thing in 1973. They tried for decades to outlaw it and failed.. but in the last decade or so they changed their strategy to chipping away at it from around the edges. A death by a thousand cuts. It's what they can do to the social safety net. It's what they can do to everything. Winning everything you wanted is the worst thing that can happen to a movement because the movement largely dies, the activists either go back to their lives or to a new movement and the hordes are more than willing to pound away at that wall looking for the smallest crack.

  •  How long, whither the planet's climate? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    CorpFlunky, YucatanMan

    I appreciate the upbeat observation on public opinion.

    ".. the only question left is how long will it be before our government truly represents the public will."

    Issue battles and political wars may go back and forth with the costs to the generations that fight them.  There is one physical process where the clock is ticking, like a world-wide bomb. Climate change will cost not only our generation but hundreds that follow.

    Delay is the strategy of the fossil fuel industry, funded by $100's of millions by the Kochs and their breed. Its a Lose-Lose.  Unless [DK] progressives (and science-embracing independents and conservatives) include transitioning to a renewable energy economy as an immediate and high priority, the window to keep climate change limited will be lost.  

    It will be a lot harder to advance progressive causes in a world full of droughts, floods, heatwaves, extreme storms, sea rise, dying oceans, wildfires, and struggling (and failing) to feed 9 billion.  

    “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” - William Butler Yeats

    by RandW on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 01:06:30 PM PDT

    •  Culture is not changing as fast as climate (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      If it takes a generation to change minds on a few self-evident cultural battles, and meanwhile the 1% destroy the planet for everyone else forever, then we have lost real war.  The scientists gave us a simple test about the greenhouse effect, and we failed.  Then they gave us the answers to the test, and we failed again.  Humanity is going to wait until it is far too late to act, because we're stupid locusts.  

  •  when, in the last 300 years... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    zemongoose, bryduck

    ...have conservatives, when they opposed anything liberal, ever been considered RIGHT a generation later?

    We have no desire to offend you -- unless you are a twit!

    by ScrewySquirrel on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 01:07:31 PM PDT

    •  A great question. (0+ / 0-)

      I would say that Republicans/conservatives being isolationists had it all over the Dems intervening in Southeast Asia, Latin America, and Cuba in the 1960s, but the political lines are pretty blurry there. Nixon ran on "ending the war", though, if you will remember . . .

      "Lone catch of the moon, the roots of the sigh of an idea there will be the outcome may be why?"--from a spam diary entitled "The Vast World."

      by bryduck on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 02:13:16 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Both social AND economic liberalism has won! (0+ / 0-)

    Thank you, Kos!

    On the latter front we have free trade and markets!

    On the former gay rights, women's rights, civil rights, etc.

    There is for sure mop-up work like the GOP's effort to disenfranchise minority votes.

    But we are winning and we need to PRESS FORWARD!

    "The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Thomas Paine

    by shrike on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 01:12:05 PM PDT

    •  And that economic "liberalism" is working so well. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      All is wonderful here in the land of free trade and markets, ain't it Pangloss?

    •  Whatever you say, Lanny... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      I am an economic Keynesian, a social libertarian, a foreign policy internationalist, and militantly anti-authoritarian in every way shape and form.

      by zemongoose on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 02:11:56 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Do you really understand what "free markets" (4+ / 0-)

      and "free trade" -- neoliberal economics -- represent?  Those are utterly conservative, if not libertarian concepts, not liberal or progressive at all.

      What they represent is the ending of the ability of governments to control trade, to establish fair regulations for safety, the environment, worker protections, rights and a whole other passel of things.  "Free" in that sense is "free for Ownership to do any damn thing they please."

      That is not a win in economics for liberals.

      "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

      by YucatanMan on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 06:27:25 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Kos... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    The absolute eternal optimist.

    “Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.” - John Steinbeck (Disputed)

    by RichM on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 01:12:06 PM PDT

  •  They started the culture war BECAUSE they knew (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    shrike, offgrid, Ellid

    they were losing out to liberal attitudes on sex, drugs, and rock 'n roll since the 60's...and they're still losing on that front. But, they maintain a substantial amount of government power and confuse much of the nation about "neo-liberal economics" (i.e. "conservative economics") and about the role of government in society.

    They have succeeded in planting many seeds of doubt. Even many liberals (including millennials) buy into the notion that government is too big and that it is inherently less efficient than the private sector (despite massive evidence to the contrary). Obamacare is still more unpopular than it is popular, and the ideas of cutting foodstamps and punishing "welfare queens" remains popular. These are largely cultural and racial issues. Also, over half of the governor's mansions and/or state legislatures are in Republican hands (many of them held by Tea Party culture warriors). Their marquee issue of abortion and attacks on contraception and womens' rights also is still going strong. So, I don't know that they are really losing the culture war, especially as the criminal activists on the Supreme Court rewrite laws from the bench based on whim and not on consistent precedent. I wouldn't be surprised to see a pointless impeachment vote in the House if the Republicans win the Senate (even though they'd never have the 2/3rds needed to convict there). And we all know what that is about: Losing to a Black president two times in a row.

    Just doing my part to piss off right wing nuts, one smart ass comment at a time.

    by tekno2600 on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 01:13:38 PM PDT

  •  I only want to add re: "L" and "C" words (0+ / 0-)

    I have a personal problem with "Liberalism" - not the pejorative partisan-rhetorical use of the term - but the actual origins and meaning of it applied to party politics.

    I also - while appreciating a large percentage of it as "liberalism" in modern political theory/philosophy - find the label also confusing for two reasons: one - most "Conservatives" (self-called) are actually relying on (often misreadings of) that "liberal" political theory.  And also because that set of theoretical works are too limiting to describe what ought to be a descriptor of most of our actual views.  This is why I do not engage in the game of "re-claiming" the "L-word" from the Republican and "Right-wing" of the country.  And prefer the term and concept of "Progressive."  [I find an excellent philosophical starting point for understanding what I mean by that term - in John Stuart Mill's book "On Liberty" (one of those works the right constantly misreads).  "Man is by nature a progressive being" is the start of the passage in that work which I think really brings to light something MORE THAN "liberal".

    After all - it was in his very own context - both place and time (mid-19th century Victorian England) that these two terms "L" and "C" became consciously adopted by the two competing political parties.  In a time  when the first attempts to legitimize party politics - which since the foundations of political theory from the Greeks (especially Aristotle's Ethics and related Politics) through the founding of this nation - we deemed ANATHEMA to "good government" and consciously sought to be prevented from having EFFECTS in and on the political process.  (This indeed is the central premise and aim - in the logic of the Constitution).

    "Liberal" party politics, in that historical context, was simply "the other" set of elites seeking to gain the political majority over the older "landed aristocracy."  This party tended to be the more recent "wealthy" - the merchant class and seeking their particular interests - who were only just gaining political rights and were now trying to translate them into political power.

    In that effort they often pretended - to the masses - that they were concerned with their issues, and supported VERY LIMITED "franchise" extension (the right to vote) for the purely STRATEGIC purpose (not on principle - and thus the extreme limits they wanted) of changing the electoral dynamic of parliamentary elections.

    Again we find in the 1930s and the 1960s again - criticisms of the term "Liberal" to define the so-called left of the spectrum - because of very much the same facts found in practice in the US.  The "old left" and the "new left" both rejected the term outright.  

    The most famous - and wonderful for understanding the animosity - articulation of this in music was "Love Me I'm a Liberal" by Phil Ochs - .  Take a listen - its eye-opening on this issue - which I know is not the main point in this diary but simply something that I think we need to continue to consider and reflect upon.

  •  Actually, it feels more like they're winning to me (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    YucatanMan, dfarrah

    with the Supreme court gutting voting rights and elevating corporation to godhood, with militia meanwhile sending federal agents skedattling into the woods.

  •  I'm not so sanguine (5+ / 0-)

    Liberalism has won many important and meaningful battles, but liberalism continues to lose the war.  Yes, there have been huge changes in a very positive direction on issues like gay marriage and pop culture, but the chart showing the increasing concentration of wealth in the hands of fewer and fewer people is the same chart that shows we are inescapably on the wrong side.  The moronic bleating by the 1%ers about populism being Nazism does not nullify the fact that they are still riding high on a 40-year winning streak.

    When I see a strong trend reversing 40 years of slide, I'll admit that- at least for the period covered by the novel trend- we're winning.  As of now, we continue to lose.

    •  Please don't confuse liberalism with socialism. (0+ / 0-)

      They are opposites.

      I am a liberal who respects private stock ownership and private profit.  I have no use for a Venezuela style socialist dictatorship like many here espouse.  

      "The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Thomas Paine

      by shrike on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 01:24:03 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  What about European democratic socialism? (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Vince CA, otto, joedemocrat, YucatanMan

        Is liberalism the opposite of that?

      •  Get real (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        joedemocrat, YucatanMan

        Only the most uncharitable reading of my remarks would lead one to conclude I advocate for socialism.  I don't even know how to respond to someone who thinks any curtailing the extreme concentration of economic power into a small number of hands is "socialism".  Really deeply clueless response.

      •  What?? (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        theoko, raspberryberet, SilentBrook
        I have no use for a Venezuela style socialist dictatorship like many here espouse
        I don't know where that comes from.

        I'm somebody who doesn't necessarily oppose private profit. I understand business has to make some profit. However, I think what we have is capitalism run wild where it serves the interests of the top few to the detriment of everyone else.

        I'm somebody who believes if you want to do business in this country you need to put back in this country what you take out of it. That means paying a living wage and creating jobs in this country and more.

        In recent decades, we've had a huge transfer of wealth from average people to both CEO's and investors and it is wrong and it has ruined our economy.

  •  Gay Marriage (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    shrike, cotterperson

    they spent 2 decades fighting that, and it's been
    making them crazy.

    add in medical marijuana/ marijuana decriminalization,

  •  Their anger tells the story (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    offgrid, cotterperson

    Here in the brightest red section of deep, deep red SC, they are angry about everything.  Constant bitching and moaning about "Obummer" and immigrants (even though they would not be able to eat out or have their lawns cared for without it) and health care and gays and anything else they can gripe about.
    They have most of the money and most of the power but their eternal scowl tells the story:  They know the time of their determining the narrative is slowly (too slow for me, though) coming to an end.

    Republicans are about ME. Democrats are about WE.

    by elstevens on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 01:32:23 PM PDT

  •  I have always found it odd (5+ / 0-)

    That conservatives idolize a period of US history that was basically an outgrowth of liberal, Democratic policies both during and after World War 2.  Jesus, the "happy times" they "fetishize" were completely supported by huge government programs and spending.

    I went into science for the money and the sex. Imagine my surprise.

    by Mote Dai on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 01:42:40 PM PDT

  •  Giving this a rec because Captain America is great (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cotterperson, DLWinMI

    Being a comic book nerd for my whole life is finally paying off.

    "The biggest lie told by people like me to people like you at election time is that, 'If you vote for me, I'm going to solve all your problems.' The truth is, the power to change this country is in your hands, not mine." - Howard Dean

    by Michael Langenmayr on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 01:47:21 PM PDT

  •  culturally, sure (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    you can count on the support by Libertarians with many issues relating cultural freedom, but social inequality is at an all-time-high, which endangers our democracy.

  •  I agree--we are winning the culture war, but... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    YucatanMan, dfarrah

    on economics, we've been getting our clocks cleaned relentlessly. Both parties (with the exception of Elizabeth Warren and a handful of others) and the MSM are doing their damnedest to return us to the gilded age.

    I am an economic Keynesian, a social libertarian, a foreign policy internationalist, and militantly anti-authoritarian in every way shape and form.

    by zemongoose on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 01:51:16 PM PDT

  •  Sure don't like to contradict Kos - but for me, (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    zemongoose, YucatanMan, dfarrah, ORswede

    the jury is still out on most all of the points made here, when taking reality into account.

    For example, there still exists 25% of the voting public who are the hard core "base" of the Koch.reich movement- the neocons, republicans, Tea Party fanatics, Klanners, Nazis, john Birchers and such. Then there are the 5-10% who are the Third Way, "blue dog" democrats. After that you've got another 10% that are solid DINOs. From there you have 30% of the public calling themselves "independent" which is a general euphamism for a "Do Not Disturb" sign hung over their brain while they play computer games and watch teevee 10 hours a day. That doen't leave much in the way of a plurality for progressive thought. And with over 90% of broadcast media owned by neocon corporations, getting the message out in a way that might even mimick a level playing field is a challenge, if not a crap shoot.

    Mind you, don't get me wrong: I would like nothing better than to see a really substantial uptick in this country's awareness of just how far down the rat hole the corporatists have dragged us. But between the fact that 25% of voting America is criminally insane and the greater remaining remnant considers politics to be a low-rent reality show on the teevee that needs a better producer, I'll have to beg off jumping on the "happy days are here again" hay ride for awhile.


  •  It's NOT Nick Nolte! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    It's John Nolte, and I'm sure Nick would be horrified at his name being linked to a Breibart site....C

  •  The RW only controls foreign policy, the economy (2+ / 0-)

    the healthcare system and the distribution of wealth.

    But we've got everything else!!

    Those who quote Santayana are condemned to repeat him. Me

    by Mark B on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 02:15:36 PM PDT

  •  Liberalism has won? (7+ / 0-)

    As much as liberalism has won, it sure is odd how all those legislatures around the nation are passing more and more draconian laws, defunding education, and restricting our rights.

    And, by the way: NSA?    I know. I know.  It's just white privilege to think of our civil rights and the Bill of Rights. It's way too important to default to such self-actualizing talk, while there are so many other problems in the nation which aren't being met.

    And that sort of debunks the concept that "liberalism has won," when whole sets of demographics are suffering undue economic, financial, employment, health, nourishment , and other deficiencies. If "liberalism has won," then why are all the statistics getting worse, rather than better?

    Which brings us lower on Maslow's hierarchy:  Food, clothing and shelter.  What are the poverty rates in this nation?  Especially for children? Which way are those rates heading?

    The tide has turned against the bankers?  Not if you measure it by money. There are no laws on the horizon -- none, zero, zilch -- which will do anything at all about their absolute death grip on financial superiority, nor about their ability to drain the pockets of the rest of the nation into their vast mansions of gold.

    "Liberalism has won?"   Maybe if you look at television show content as your measure, but that's irrelevant.  That's just The Circus.  It keeps commoners' minds off the thieving that is going on as Wall Street drains the public treasury into private hands.  Look at the statistics. The wealthy are getting wealthier and they own access to government.

    End of story.

    "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

    by YucatanMan on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 02:27:47 PM PDT

  •  Really? (3+ / 0-)

    I see on Politico a story that says 52% of American believe taxes are too high, with 42% saying they are about right.

    Only 3% of people believe they are too low.

    How are we ever going to get our citizens to be willing to pay for the services they want with numbers like that?

    If liberalism and its ideas were really winning we would not be seeing numbers like that in an era where taxes are about as low as they have been.

  •  If this is winning, why does it hurt so much? (4+ / 0-)

    "Winning" at the level of ideology, or even social issues like marriage equality, isn't much good if you don't have a job that pays a living wage, plus a habitable planet to live on. On both those issues, we are definitely not winning -- we are getting steam-rollered.

    My only consolation is that as a historian, I know that pendulums can only swing so far before they reverse themselves and swing back. So in another 40 or 50 years or so, maybe we'll be in better shape.

    •  A decade ago (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      states were amending their constitutions to prevent marriage equality. It's amazing how quickly things change when people determined not to be held down work together, build consensus, and create momentum.

      •  Few states have willingly repealed their (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        jayden, raspberryberet

        constitutional amendments via popular vote. Any progress in that area has come from court rulings.  So, while that is good progress, it certainly is not an indicator of public opinion.

        "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

        by YucatanMan on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 06:31:28 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  And climate change? In 40-50 years? n/t (0+ / 0-)

      "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

      by YucatanMan on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 06:30:29 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Marginalizing Religion (0+ / 0-)
    branches of government have also taken plenty of proactive steps to marginalize religion.

    Separating religion from the state doesn't marginalize it. In fact those places (some people's) religion used to get away with getting public endorsement and subsidy are not the center of society; churches, parades and family gatherings where they are freely practiced without limit aren't the margins.

    You want to believe something unprovable, that most other people don't believe (even the most popular sects don't have 150 million churchgoers or regular practitioners combined, and their subtotal doesn't all believe the same things within their narrow group), believe it. Just don't make the rest of us pay or get out of the way for it.

    "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

    by DocGonzo on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 03:14:34 PM PDT

  •  Horrible thing is they still can do LOTS of damage (0+ / 0-)

    In particular in states with big or super majorities of republicans - and in the House and Senate and Supreme Court.  There's every indication we may lose the Senate and lose ground in the House in 2014, and if we get a Republican president in 2016 we could very well be f**ked for yet another generation by these backwards neanderthals.

    Republican threats amount to destroying the present if we don't allow them to destroy the future too. -MinistryOfTruth, 1/1/2013

    by sleipner on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 03:15:54 PM PDT

  •  Dead Enders in Their Death Throes? (0+ / 0-)

    Cheney thought Iraq's counterinsurgents ("terrorists" vs USA) were just a few pockets of resistance, "dead enders", who were "in their death throes", because he read their violance and unreality as the kind of desperation the logic of this article reads the same way among Conservatives. Those two groups, Iraqi and American, have a lot more in common, as is often discussed on DKos.

    The Iraqis haven't lost. I don't think America's theofascists have lost either.

    "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

    by DocGonzo on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 03:17:53 PM PDT

  •  Strange definition of winning (3+ / 0-)

    When the Democratic president views having the lowest % of discretionary spending since Eisenhower as an accomplishment, has tried to cut Social Security numerous times, maintains an environmentally destructive "all-of-the-above" energy strategy that sounds like an Exxon commercial, and oversees the murder of innocent civilians abroad with impunity, I don't quite see how liberalism has "won."

  •  I agreed with everything you said (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Until you got to

    "But if you wonder why conservatives seem to carry perpetual grievances, it's because they know they have lost."

    I would have said "it's because they know they are outnumbered."  

    Until about 20 years ago, I was always able to have reasonable exchanges with conservatives, and they often made very good, logical and reasonable points, given our different points of view.  But it was during the Clinton administration that I started to notice that conservatives don't just view liberals as wrong, they view liberals as EVIL.  And as long as they believe they have Jesus and the Bible on their side, they will never concede that they have lost.  They have become so entrenched in their righteousness that they will fight to the last man to reverse the ungodly secular trends that they see everywhere.

    And of course Rush and Fox News now reinforce their worldview.

    The world has changed.  I miss those days.

    'Tis with our judgments as our watches, none go just alike, yet each believes his own. - Alexander Pope

    by liberaldad2 on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 03:58:40 PM PDT

  •  It's always so cute when con-bloggers like Nolte (0+ / 0-)

    attempt to quantify success and failure of feature films solely in terms of box office — it’s such a “Hollywood” thing to do.

    It's like using record sales to measure the popularity of a song or the DJIA to measure the health of the economy.

    Wingnut World: where "Noah" is treated as fact and "NOAA" makes stuff up.

    by here4tehbeer on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 04:46:54 PM PDT

  •  What we have to do to really WIN (0+ / 0-)

    Well said, especially at the end where you indicate that while we have won we have not WON won. We have a lot of work ahead to take over the institutional levers of government. Ignore the right-wing media machine and the conservatives who want to live in its cocoon; nothing we say or do will change their minds in the next few years. Focus instead on the centrist majority of Americans who have opted out of the political process because both parties are broken and it is way too hard to challenge any incumbents for national or state legislative positions. Help them rejoin the process to ensure that centrist candidates (of both parties) survive primary challengers and have reasonable chances in the general election. Choose one major issue such as gerrymandering and launch local efforts in all 50 states to put authority to redraw districts into non-partisan hands. Or voter registration, and again launch local efforts to ensure full access by otherwise-marginalized voters. Many people are waiting to be led in making such improvements, and it is unfortunate that our elected leaders and party leaders are not providing such leadership. Let’s do it here!

  •  We already won the culture wars by 1970, so what (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    'splains what happened since then?  Racism, pure and simple.  The Nixon Southern Strategy and beyond.  They get poor whites to vote against their own economic self-interest for like almost 50 years...and what is our progressive answer, even in 2016 with our first female President?  I don't doubt that will happen but I doubt the racists will be defeated in my lifetime.

    Armed! I feel like a savage! Barbarella

    by richardvjohnson on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 05:33:43 PM PDT

  •  Liberals Winning (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    YucatanMan, raspberryberet

    Maybe, BUT
    The battle is never won. Give an inch and they'll take a mile. Two steps forward, one step back--and sometimes one step forward, two steps back. Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty. And every similar cliche you can think of.
    My point is that there will always be conservatives fighting not to be dragged into the modern world. Liberals cannot rest, even though the arc of history seems to bend in our direction.  As one example, look at what has happened to economic rights while social rights have improved over the past fifty years.

  •  yeah but guys ... (0+ / 0-)

     You have people like Kell553 & Iceangelin over on this website spouting BS.....

       Then this guy writes that ,more or less, the GOP is actually more diverse then the Democrats in candidate selection.
    kell553 wrote:
    No..more like when Cunnigham got busted and we had a runoff for his seat. The Democrats put forth Busby...with all but one Dem dropping at that point. The remaining Dem dropped the dime of her Party's politics. She was told to sign an agreement that should she NOT be selected by the Party Central Comittee she was required to drop from the race or face censure by the Party. She refused and continued to run (and based on the demographics of the district she would have won over the eventual Republican who did win). Because of that she was constantly harrassed by her own party members...even threatened.
    And it just happened that the person selected by the Central Committee, Francine Busby, was a Committee insider.
    In the meantime the Republicans held an actual run-off election with 20-something candidates...this winner AS CHOSEN BY THE PEOPLE was the GOP nominee.
    National Politics are slightly different, but you no doubt noticed the Democrats had 3 candidates, 1 of which imploded and the other was aced out by a more ruthless organizational group; while the Republican stage was quite crowded with a much more diverse (both in ethnicity, economic standing, and viewpoints) group to choose from.
    (EDIT) Regarding the DNC Nomination, you are forgetting that the DNC uses the Caucus format quite a bit; where Party members decide who the States winner will be rather than the average voter. In the 2008 cycle "The Machine" was out maneuvered by "The Chicago Way" early and often...leaving them in the dust and on second page in the news cycle. Of course the mechanics of winning a caucus was pretty easy. Bus in out of State supporters, arrive hours early and fill the room, then when your opponents supporters arrive have the fire marshall inform them the rooms at capacity and they are not allowed in. Once you've taken 4 or 5 cauci in a row, The Inevitable One becomes a side story while The New One gets all the press.
    And through that entire process, the average Democrat voter has zero say in who he thinks his Party's Nominee should be.

  •  Oooooh, (0+ / 0-)

    You're gonna get the hate mail now!

  •  It's like those old "English-only" initiatives. (0+ / 0-)

    If you have to vote about that, you know "English-only" has already lost.

  •  We Just Need To Win the Other Half (0+ / 0-)

    The economic half.

  •  I wish this were true (0+ / 0-)

    There's still a lot to fix about policy so that even when we do win we have something to show for it.  

    I think Americans are teetering 50/50.  There could always be a reversal of fortune.

    "Hatred is never appeased by hatred in this world. By non-hatred alone is hatred appeased. This is a law eternal."

    by sujigu on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 09:30:10 PM PDT

  •  We need to focus on core structural issues... (0+ / 0-)

    ...NOT on social issues, which only stirs up unnecessary opposition from social conservatives, and isn't central to the question of political power anyway.

    That means:

    * pass Constitutional amendments to reverse the effect of Citizens United & McCutcheon

    * press Congress to amend the 1965 Voting Rights Act so as to restore the Justice Department's "prior permission" authority over any changes to the voting laws in states that are subject to the VRA

    * press the DOJ - hard - to continue to intercede in states that have flagrantly violated the VRA with new voter suppression laws

    * by all means, HOLD ONTO THE SENATE in the upcoming midterm election, so that Republicans can't do any additional damage to President Obama's agenda - and especially so the President will be able to get any future Supreme Court nominees confirmed without dramatic stalling tactics

    * pass meaningful public campaign finances laws to get the bottomless pit of dark special-interest money OUT of our elections - for good!

    * create a new, strictly nonpartisan federal agency to oversee all new Congressional redistricting - in order to abolish the practice of gerrymandering - once and for all

    * pass meaningful legislation - with real TEETH in it - to outlaw & abolish the "revolving door" of executives between federal agencies and corporations that those agencies regulate

    * re-institute the "talking filibuster" in the US Senate, so that Senators who oppose (or support) a particular bill by exercising the filibuster, must publicly go on the record - with spoken remarks, delivered in-session, and recorded in writing

    * and so on...

    Eyes on the ball, people.  Take care of the big stuff - such as the stuff I just outlined - and the little stuff will sort itself out...

    All that is necessary for the triumph of the Right is that progressives do nothing.

    by Mystic Michael on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 09:58:52 PM PDT

  •  Why am I no thrilled? (0+ / 0-)

    If so, it's a hollow victory since the GOP has gerrymandered themselves into power until the next decade at least and Democrats govern increasingly like corporatists.

    The Democorporate faction of the party uses the Far Right as its excuse for moving further right.

    by masswaster on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 10:17:31 PM PDT

  •  That's crazy (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    To try to put it in the proverbial nutshell: America looked at the policies that were in place from FDR to Reagan, which took the country to its height of wealth and productivity, and chose to reverse course.  This generation so strongly believes in the superiority of the corporate state that they decided that everyone is able to work, regardless of health or circumstances, and that there are jobs for all who need one, therefore no need for basic poverty relief. They embraced a socioeconomic agenda that is actually well to the right of such historic conservatives as Eisenhower and Nixon! This generation chose the anti-liberal economic agenda, working to dismantle some 80 years of progress.

  •  The future? It's #progressive. (0+ / 0-)

    There'll be no room there for the crazed, modern Republicans.

    "I like paying taxes...with them, I buy Civilization"

    by Angie in WA State on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 11:59:08 PM PDT

  •  We've won culture war yes, class war no (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    But admittedly the latter is a struggle as old as time (older than our species in a way... it's about power), and it's gonna take a long moral arc and a lot of pushing to win.  Which I hope is taken in a motivating not depressing way.

    "Happiness is the only good. The place to be happy is here. The time to be happy is now. The way to be happy is to make others so." - Robert Ingersoll

    by dackmont on Tue Apr 15, 2014 at 03:54:12 AM PDT

  •  Kos, please fix: (0+ / 0-)
    In that Breitbart link above, Nick Nolte waxes about ...
    Should be:
    In that Breitbart link above, John Nolte waxes about ...
  •  Liberalism has won! (0+ / 0-)

    Now I am just hoping to live long enough to witness a change in the control of Government.  We've won the Executive Branch & the Senate.  Now we need the House & Supreme Court.

    I don't think total single-party control is a good thing, but I do think the GOP needs to rid itself of the Christian-right & other wing nuts.  There really CAN be such a thing as a socially liberal, fiscally conservative Republican & I think that balance with Democrats is good for our Country.

  •  The LONG VIEW (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    When you measure successes towards individual freedoms for ourselves and our fellow citizens, by taking a Long View towards Liberal accomplishment I see not only has Liberalism won the battle so far, it will eventually win the 'war'.

    This war we did not start, and it is not real.  It is a war Conservatives conjured from nothing years ago, and have been stoking the fires of by telling lies about ever since.  Conservatives have been waging one sided 'war' against all they deem hateful for decades now.

    And it is a losing proposition for Conservatives, as this 'war' will exhaust them physically, mentally and financially.  And it should.  They started it and given enough time it will finish them.

    But false or not, because they insist on acting like children, refusing to take a seat with the adults, it is a 'war' that affects us all.  Which is why we must settle for taking the Long View when dealing with these obstructionists.  Without the Long View we might begin to take the inane but repetitive Conservative objections (i.e.: statement without fact) seriously!

    In the Long View, a hundred years from now mankind will look back on this time and not fathom why the world let Conservatives hold back progress in our country for so long.  They will not understand why forward thinkers, like Liberals, put up with it for as long as they did.  They will not get why the common citizen let it all happen by buying into the lies that are Conservative 'Values'.

    How the death of Conservative thought will come about is something I cannot predict.  No one knows how it will happen.  But it will.  I truly believe there will come a time when the Conservative meme will be relegated to ancient history, an interesting problem for a future civilization to examine and analyze, and then set aside for more pressing matters.  Set aside, for mankind of the future will, I'm sure, be dealing with their own unique problems.  I can't begin to image what they might be, and what they will be applying their own 'Long View' to in order to help get through them.

    Alien Gas-Bag Conservatives from Jupiter, LOL?!

    "It just kills me that we put that idiot in office… twice. But I guess there has never been a shortage of idiots in politics." Helen Philpot writing about GWB, April 25, 2013

    by WSComn on Tue Apr 15, 2014 at 09:47:38 AM PDT

  •  For the record ... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    reasonshouldrule, raspberryberet

    Sad, but most so called conservatives use that word, in and of itself, to align themselves with a political party - i.e.; Republicans - Tea Party or Libertarian. Yet, with even the slightest effort, it becomes clear that no political party has ever been further from the definition or values of that word.

    I consider myself a left-leaning independent or moderate. Yet, my values - moral - spiritual - and as an American are far more conservative and reserved than those who lay claim to the word.  

    Here's the word that best fits the so called conservatives - a definition supported by dictionaries:

    Reactionary Definition -

    adj. adjective 1.Characterized by reaction, especially opposition to progress or liberalism; extremely conservative.

    n. noun 1.An opponent of progress or liberalism; an extreme conservative.

    Or, my own and reasonable definition = any and all who subscribe themselves to a political party as if a team sport, and where the players can do no wrong - even when wrong. Further seen as those who stand with matters that will actually harm them ... see Stockholm Syndrome for more.

    Finally - the real RINO's are those who now hide behind the once honorable party name of Republican.

  •  agree (0+ / 0-)

    Though I pretty much agree with you--poll after poll indicates that so-called liberal ideas, postitions and policies are favored by the public, often by overwhelming percentages--but I am feeling terribly pessimistic that the levers of govt can be wrested back, because of the three things you mentioned, and more.

    What can we do about the Supreme Court? Nothing, it appears, except pass constitutional amendments to reverse their ignominy, and I think the odds of that happening are lower than stopping climate change.

    Same for gerrymandering. Who's going to change the laws about that, or otherwise overcome the damage?

    There seems to be some positive news about tackling voter suppression, but will it happen before Nov, and either way will enough Democrats vote, to overcome the rage and fear that brings so many old fart Republican bigots, haters and fools to the polls, so we at least don't lose the Senate?  I'm not hopeful overall, though putting Medical Marijuana on the ballet in FL may bring out enough young voters to make a difference there.

    I hate to say it, but it sure looks like Democracy, or representative govt as we knew it--flawed, corruptible and incomplete as it was--is over, and plutocracy has won.

    Can someone make me feel better about our chances? Please?

    Men who have no respect for human life or for freedom or justice have taken over this beautiful country of ours. It will be up to the American people to tak

    by liandro on Tue Apr 15, 2014 at 11:30:53 AM PDT

  •  Great diary (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    raspberryberet, IowaBiologist

    I love the premise of this diary and hope that it is true.  However, you only have to read history--or even current events in some parts of the world--to realize that when the predators of the world see their impending demise, they use to the very freedom that civilized countries provide to seize all power and resources.  Then they enslave everyone else.

    This is not a future possibility either.  Here in Michigan, our legislature is planning to sneak through a law that changes how votes are counted.  No longer would individual votes be counted up; votes would be counted by districts (Hunger Games anyone?) thereby assuring a republican victory in all national elections.

  •  You need to check in with another diarist (0+ / 0-)

    who claims that there is scientific proof that America is an oligarchy. You all need to get on the same page.

  •  Conservatives (0+ / 0-)

    are haters, racists and bigots and the majority of Americans are now aware of it.

  •  It can't come soon enough. (0+ / 0-)
  •  Freedom for Conservatives (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    means the freedom to run everyone else's lives and shove
     their religion down our throats.
    It means the idea that keeping kids ignorant about sex will stop them from
    trying it.
    It means making sure science and reality are kept out of schools.  
    It means living in the 19th century.
    It means I want nothing to do with it.

  •  Too reasonable. (0+ / 0-)

    The biggest problem professional liberals encounter when running for election is their own reasonableness.  Rationality is usually the best strategy for designing effective policies, but emotional appeals are more powerful when motivating people.  We often assume that "simplistic" emotional appeals are the sole province of our opponents, the Republicans, tea partiers, religious right, and the "nut jobs".  But all people are driven by emotion.  Rationality addresses the "what" and "how" questions of life, but not the "why?". Science, for example cannot and never will provide a reason everything exists when nothing has to.  These are the province of religion and other essentially non-rational elements of our culture.  Liberalism used to succeed by virtue of its populist appeal - the New Deal rhetoric of resentment towards the rich and the financial institutions, and our sympathies with the little guys, the Davids fighting the Goliaths.  Liberals are no longer the populists; that label now applies to Republicans and the types of conservatives that dominate the party.  Right now, professional conservatism has grown old; the ugliness and bitterness of its spokespersons is showing and a facelift is not forthcoming.  Increasingly, eople are growing tired of the rants and they see through the FoxNews chorus.  But liberalism cannot rely on the the ugliness of its opponents to maintain the advantage.

       Liberals must find a new communications strategy, one that leaves the old populism behind while advocating for an exciting future.  The Cassandras among the progressive faction have to modulate their tune.  A new key could sing the possibility of America leading the world again.  Redefine American exceptionalism.  Consider the possibility that a vanguard movement toward new energy strategies and the mitigation of global climate change could lead  the world.  We still have the skills and resources needed to reform our ways.  Right now,the nation lacks the will and spirit needed for political and social reform.  We must find and proclaim it.  Obama seemed to promise such a change six years ago.  Personally, I'm disappointed.  We have to do better than this.  

  •  Can't agree on this. (0+ / 0-)

    My concerns have already been stated by others numerous times above, but I feel they must be repeated:

    We may have "won" public opinion, and we may have been successful in passing many pieces of socially liberal legislation...

    ...but the Regressives are still creaming us on implementing economic issues - and that is largely due to having so many Third Wayers in the Democratic party.

    That does include our presumptive nominee for 2016 - who tends to get praised quite frequently here - while a guy who cut his teeth under her husbands DLC/ Third Way tutelage in DC - Andrew Cuomo - gets routinely (and rightly) torn to shreds here for doing much the same as she (and her husband) have or would.  I don't get it.

    So it isn't just the GOP.  It's Third Wayers allowing this incrementalism to take us backwards in the first place.

    So in my opinion, we aren't really winning anything, because the social issues are for nothing if we turn into just another historical oligarchy with little to no middle class left due to nonsense economic policies.

    I sure don't demand ideological purity.  I don't think we should have a litmus test per se, and hell, I'll even vote for Hillary if she's the nominee.  But that doesn't mean I'm going to like it, and it certainly doesn't mean I don't think that she's not going to bring us more of the same Kabuki Theater controlled by the corporate puppetmasters campaign contributors.

    "There was no such thing as a "wealthy" hunter-gatherer. It is the creation of human society that has allowed the wealthy to become wealthy. As such, they have an obligation to pay a bit more to sustain that society than the not-so-wealthy." - Me

    by Darth Stateworker on Tue Apr 15, 2014 at 08:08:21 PM PDT

  •  You're acting like Seattle fans at the Super Bowl (0+ / 0-)

    So why are you moaning about campaign financing? Didn't liberalism win that, too?

    Oh, wait...(takes cell call from John Roberts...something about Citizens United and McCutcheon...)

    Final score:
    Freedom of Speech - 2
    DailyKos/Markos Moulitsas - 0

  •  "Liberalism Has Won" Rings Hollow (0+ / 0-)

    If the Plutocrats, Oligarchs, Call them what you will seize our government permanently as they are making a serious attempt to do right now. Once in place they will move swiftly to secure the Palace Revolution & Re Write history. America will become, not a 'Mega Banana Republic' but a copy of what Russia was for the years between the Bolshevik takeover & the breakup of the Russian Empire. That is; A frozen government retaining the trappings of Democracy for propaganda purposes but ruled by a Capitalist Clique instead of a Communist Clique. The citizen in the street won't even know the difference & progressives, socialists & dissidents will find themselves in the American version of the Gulags. The NSA is surely tracking all of us on this very blog right now in anticipation of the hoped for new order & subsequent roundups.

  •  Repub solution for poverty? (0+ / 0-)

    "Don't be POOR!" - which makes a much sense as the Reagan-era solution for teenage sex, "Just say no!"
    They are totally lacking in any concept of social realities, human nature, and common sense which can be learned with a comprehensive educational system, against which Conservatives continuously battle against.  Great article!!

  •  Re: your daughter & Flo Rida - (0+ / 0-)

    My son's kindergarten teacher was somewhat upset when he started singing the Grateful Dead's "Casey Jones" at school.

    OF COURSE the New Right is wrong - but that doesn't make WRONG the new RIGHT!

    by mstaggerlee on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 10:17:31 AM PDT

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