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Eric Parker from central Idaho aims his weapon from a bridge as protesters gather by the Bureau of Land Management's base camp, where cattle that were seized from rancher Cliven Bundy are being held, near Bunkerville, Nevada April 12, 2014. The U.S. Bureau of Land Management on Saturday said it had called off an effort to round up Bundy's herd of cattle that it had said were being illegally grazed in southern Nevada, citing concerns about safety. The conflict between Bundy and U.S. land managers had brought a team of armed federal rangers to Nevada to seize the 1,000 head of cattle. REUTERS/Jim Urquhart (UNITED STATES - Tags: ANIMALS CIVIL UNREST AGRICULTURE CRIME LAW) - RTR3L0EB
Eric Parker from Idaho aims his weapon from a bridge as protesters gather by BLM's base camp
Over the weekend, the Bureau of Land Management abandoned an operation to round up cattle owned by Cliven Bundy, the Nevada rancher who for 20 years has refused to pay federal grazing fees because he denies the U.S. government has authority over the land it owns. Virtually nobody agrees with Bundy's flagrant disregard for the law—even the Nevada Cattlemen's Association refused to back him, saying Bundy's refusal to play by the same rules as everyone else tarnished the industry's reputation.

Nonetheless, BLM backed off its enforcement action because Bundy managed to attract support from armed militia (aided in part by scenes like this), turning a boring grazing fee dispute into a situation fraught with the potential for violence. These militia members don't appear to have been the brightest individuals, at least based on this:

The militiamen posted a sign: MILITA SIGHN IN (sic).
But while they might not be so good at that whole spelling thing, they did have guns—and as you can see in the picture at the top of this post, they appeared eager to use them. So even though the BLM was unambiguously on the correct side of the law, it decided to return the cattle it had rounded up. Although the BLM has largely remained mum on the situation, the dispute is not over. According to the BLM statement announcing the return of the cattle, the agency will "work to resolve the matter administratively and judicially," a position backed by Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid who said the dispute is "not over."

With BLM having abandoned its cattle roundup, we're pretty much back to a relatively boring grazing dispute between a deadbeat cattle rancher with crackpot political ideas and a federal agency which isn't known for being terribly popular with anybody on the political spectrum. If you're a member of the right-wing media, that's terrible news, however, because boring doesn't sell, so as you'll see below the fold, last night Sean Hannity did what he always tries to do: Create conflict by imagining a set of facts that aren't exactly grounded in reality.

Hannity began his show on Fox last night by promoting a claim from a former Arizona sheriff that federal authorities were planning a midnight raid on Bundy's ranch. Hannity misidentified the sheriff as being from Nevada, didn't mention that the sheriff had been out of office for more than a decade, and overlooked the fact that the previous day the sheriff had said he would use his wife and daughters as human shields if to protect himself from the federal government, but Hannity's goal was to entertain his audience by promoting the possibility of an armed conflict between a rancher and the federal government, so he didn't bother worrying about the details. Instead:

Sean Hannity suggested Tuesday night that federal authorities are plotting a sneak attack on Cliven Bundy’s ranch after they appeared to back away from a standoff.

The recalcitrant rancher threatened violence against federal agents if they dared try to arrest him on the orders of Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV).

“First I’ve got to say, Harry, get your army out of Nevada, get your army away from my ranch and off Clark County public land – and keep it out!” Bundy said. “And if they come, we’ll deal with them tonight. That’s what we’ve got to do, we’ll just deal with you. Whether you got guts enough to do it, come on.”

Alas, there was no raid on Bundy's ranch last night, so in the slim chance that Hannity actually believed there was any chance of such a raid, he woke up this morning disappointed. Far more likely, he's just going to move on to his next right-wing fantasy, because as every right-wing jock knows, you've got to keep your audience on edge to keep them dialed in. It was a pathetic display from Hannity, but I'll concede this point: Until his stunt last night, I'd actually forgotten he was still on the air.
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Comment Preferences

  •  Caving in to armed mobs of batshit crazy (44+ / 0-)

    fascists?

    What could go wrong?

    Overheard a Frenchman trying to explain Thomas Freidman to a Brit "He's got shit for brains -- but that's his asset. That's why he appeals to the US bourgeoisie."

    by JesseCW on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 10:44:05 AM PDT

    •  How about not turning them into martyrs? (32+ / 0-)

      Work better for you?

      We don't need another Ruby Ridge.  If you take them on, they'll find a way to make more.

      I'd rather see them humiliated in court than go down in a blaze of glory.

      •  Bundy has already lost in court (25+ / 0-)

        more than once.

        He's a thief and should be treated like one.

        Election Day is Nov 4th, 2014 It's time for the Undo button on the 2010 Election.

        by bear83 on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 10:55:23 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Better martyrs than patriots and heroes (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        commonmass, JesseCW, Patango, YouKnowMe

        for the effing crazies.
        BLM should have killed the confiscated cattle rather than give them back.

      •  This needs to be handled sensitively (22+ / 0-)

        First, don't spark a fight and give the other side a chance to turn this into some big political issue.

        Second, get a media strategy together before the guy gets arrested. The media strategy should concentrate on responsible stewardship of public resources and combat the idea that this idiot has any natural title to the land.

        Third, start using the language of terrorism when referring to the militias who show up at events like this.

        Fourth, be patient and arrest him in a few months when he's done spiking the ball in the end zone.

        “If the misery of the poor be caused not by the laws of nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin.” Charles Darwin

        by ivorybill on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 11:07:03 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Riiiiiight. It's got nothing to do with a wealthy (7+ / 0-)

          rancher connected to the Koch brothers being treated differently than 99% of Americans would be if they thought they could pull a gun and tell Federal Agents to get the fuck off Federal Land.

          Overheard a Frenchman trying to explain Thomas Freidman to a Brit "He's got shit for brains -- but that's his asset. That's why he appeals to the US bourgeoisie."

          by JesseCW on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 11:23:42 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Can you provide a source for your claim (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Sherri in TX, Matt Z, rduran

            that Bundy is connected to the Koch brothers?

            Tell Warner Brothers Pictures that Rooney Mara is #NotYourTigerLily.

            by ExpatGirl on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 11:27:35 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Look, the guy belongs in prison (11+ / 0-)

            But why be stupid about it?  Why turn this into an election issue?  

            As Napoleon once said, "never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake".

            You have newspapers in St. George Utah coming down on Bundy for being an idiot.  Let that continue a while.  Let the militias look like ineffectual fanatics instead of victims in the eyes of most of the people in the West.

            The militia idiots want the feds to kill people and stage a Ruby Ridge / Waco type intervention.  That's what they feed off of.  We need not to give them that.  

            “If the misery of the poor be caused not by the laws of nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin.” Charles Darwin

            by ivorybill on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 11:35:19 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  No, he doesn't belong in prison (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              OrganicChemist

              That's an irrational reaction to his quite blatant defiance of a civil action.  And regardless of how terrible it looks to have BLM "capitulating" to armed protestors, in under federal and Nevada law protesting while armed is entirely legal.  You'd have a hard time even making a case for incitement, especially since no violence broke out. You'd have an even harder time making a criminal ESA case against him, and even then it would be only a misdemeanor charge.

              This case from the beginning should have been treated as the civil matter it is.  There are various intelligent ways of going about it.  Bundy has customers.  Shut down his access to them.  Bundy has bank accounts.  Go after them.   But get this "get even" nonsense out of your system.  When we give into those urges, they win.

              •  Yeah... you're wrong (0+ / 0-)

                There was RESISTANCE.  They stormed federal land and robbed the agents of federal property (the cattle which had been awarded to the government by the court) at gunpoint.

                Armed robbery is definitely a felony.  You can also go to jail for tax evasion and other CIVIL crimes.  Simply contempt of court can even carry jail time.

                Sedition is definitely a federal offense.  That one is punishable by death.

                http://www.law.cornell.edu/...

                So you're right, they shouldn't be in jail, they should be in a bunch of nooses.

              •  Contempt (0+ / 0-)

                Federal Agents were trying to execute a valid Federal Court Order.  Knowingly interfering with them constitutes contempt and you can certianly be jailed for that.  There are probably other federal statutes violated.

                However the Feds, unlike your neighborhood Police Department, are never in a hurry.  The FBI prizes collecting mountains of evidence, which they carefully organize.

                They probably recognize this as a fantastic opportunity to gain a window into the right wing militia movement, which they'll exploit through their considerable power and resources for a while before they issue indictments.

                The FBI can be very accommodating.  I've seen them hand an attorney and indexed three ring binder of evidence in a case, perfectly organized without being asked to.  Photographs, wire taps, internet and long, detailed statements from informants.  Then they lay a federal sentencing guideline calculation right on top of it which states exactly how long the Defendant will be spending in Federal Prison.  They walk out of the room and say stay as long as you like.  Let us know if this isn't enough.  It is over before it starts.

                For people who hunt drug cartels run by people who don't have real things, locking up people who say stupid things on You Tube is probably a day at the beach.

                William Hamilton practices Law and is a writer and community activist in the Charleston, SC area. He can reached through www.wjhamilton.com

                by wjhamilton29464 on Thu Apr 17, 2014 at 10:07:05 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  I support the feds in Ruby Ridge and Waco (0+ / 0-)

              Sedition should be met with force.  Force sometimes means death.

              I don't get why Ruby Ridge or Waco are controversies.

              Yes, I realize some women and children died, however the women and "children" at Ruby Ridge were firing at federal agents and managed to kill at least one.

              The women and children at Waco were sacrificed by their evil cult leader, just like Jones back in the 1970's.  Crazy people threatening to use their kids as hostages should not be allowed to roam the streets and continue violating the law (including killing 4 federal agents at Waco).

              The loss of government agents is unfortunate, though the agents at Waco were lost prior to the siege.  The loss of the lives of the cult children was unfortunate, but cults kill their own, and that isn't the government's fault.

              •  Waco Children (0+ / 0-)

                The children at Waco could have been put in an underground shelter and survived.  They were deliberately sacrificed.  Some were being held in the compound in defiance of custody court orders.

                I'm amazed that David Koresh has become a right wing hero.

                William Hamilton practices Law and is a writer and community activist in the Charleston, SC area. He can reached through www.wjhamilton.com

                by wjhamilton29464 on Thu Apr 17, 2014 at 10:09:23 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  You're amazed because you're expecting (0+ / 0-)

                  consistency and coherence from a humanist perspective.

                  The only thing consistent about the extreme right is their hatred of liberal humanist values and their hunger for an excuse to throw lead.

                  Nothing human is alien to me.

                  by WB Reeves on Thu Apr 17, 2014 at 12:25:42 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

        •  No militia, just thugs. (7+ / 0-)

          Stop calling this band of thugs a militia; they are just ignorant people organized by a RWN political group to foment an issue to grab headlines in another attempt to belittle the present administration. Hopefully pictures were taken and they all will be arrested for an attempt to riot or at least for being a public nuisance.
          Bundy is just like any other freeloader he owes money and is trying to avoid paying.

          No country can be both ignorant and free - Thomas Jefferson

          by fjb on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 11:41:50 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Don't even bother with the arrest (0+ / 0-)

          What matters is ending the trespass and monetary restitution.  Arrest simply plays into Bundy's hands.

          And if you start using the language of terrorism after all we've been through over the past decade, then you've learned very little from the experience.

      •  NH Federal marshalls managed to avoid this (20+ / 0-)

        Some years ago (2007) Edward and Elaine Brown got convicted of federal tax fraud (they basically denied that the Federal government had any authority over them) and their property was declared forfeited to the government. They refused to surrender to Federal authorities, and attracted the right-wing militia crowd (including Randy Weaver) with threats to use violence to prevent the couple's arrest. After a stand-off that ran many months, NH's US Marshall, Stephen Monier (long-time Republican) managed to trick the Browns into inviting in some of his plain-clothed people, who then arrested them. Both the Browns and some of their more active supporters were subsequently convicted on crimes including weapons and explosives charges from the stand-off.

        Bottom line: There are often ways for the government to prevail, without the kind of high-fire-power confrontation that makes martyrs.

        •  Closer to home is a Nevada case.. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          apissedant, Ahianne

          ..that according to this reporting is nearly indentical to Bundy's case, written up here:
          Nevada Rancher Confusing Liberty With Anarchy

          Here are the findings of facts and conclusions of law from a case exactly like Bundy’s case – the Gardner decision here. It’s everything you need to know about Bundy’s case from a legal/constitutional law standpoint.
          the Nevada Constitution is also against Mr. Bundy’s claims to the land:
          “Third. That the people inhabiting said territory do agree and declare, that they forever disclaim all right and title to the unappropriated public lands lying within said territory, and that the same shall be and remain at the sole and entire disposition of the United States; and that lands belonging to citizens of the United States, residing without the said state, shall never be taxed higher than the land belonging to the residents thereof; and that no taxes shall be imposed by said state on lands or property therein belonging to, or which may hereafter be purchased by, the United States, unless otherwise provided by the congress of the United States.”
          IANAL but it sounds solid to me

          Also I'd bet there are many other ranchers that do pay their bills that aren't too happy with Bundy right now

        •  Fair enough (0+ / 0-)

          But the fact no one knows about that case actually goes against it being all that effective.

          They love to talk about our founding fathers.

          Our founding fathers liked to strike down sedition in a much more violent and public way.  Shay's Rebellion and the Whiskey Rebellion ended with the death of several traitors, and several more prosecuted for sedition.

          Sometimes people need to be reminded what patriotism and law and order really means.

          It means not pointing a gun at government authorities.  It means not using your children as human shields.  It means using elections and courts to workout your issues with the government.

          And when you fail to be a true patriot and instead choose to be a traitor, it means the rest of us support our federal authorities when they're forced to shoot a traitor or two in the face.

      •  Oh.... I forgot. We're all supposed to take (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Patango

        false dichotomies like that seriously.

        Obviously, it was either cave in our launch an all out assault.

        How could anyone not see that?

        Overheard a Frenchman trying to explain Thomas Freidman to a Brit "He's got shit for brains -- but that's his asset. That's why he appeals to the US bourgeoisie."

        by JesseCW on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 11:21:19 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Absolutely... (0+ / 0-)

        and have these shitheads drown out all of the good news from the ACA and the traction that raising the minimum wage is generating prior to the midterms... no thanks. That picture of the dude on the bridge is priceless. What a great field of fire he has given himself - dumbshit.

        "We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." - Louis D. Brandeis

        by VA6thDem on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 11:50:11 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  This isn't new (0+ / 0-)

        Look up the Whiskey Rebellion and Shay's Rebellion.

        Sedition is a serious federal crime.  It can legally be punished by death.  I'm completely in support of a no knock raid on their house and seizure of all of their assets.

        Did we worry about Hitler, Osama, or McVeigh becoming martyrs?  No, we sent in the damn troops and enforced the law.

      •  Humiliated in Court (0+ / 0-)

        Crazy people are not humiliated by court orders.  I'm a lawyer and I've been in court with plenty of nuts.  They judge reads it, explains it and tells them they're going to jail.  Nothing makes the slightest impression until the handcuffs go on.  For some it takes the leg manacles before they wake up.  Some can sit in a jail cell for months still full on nuts without learning a thing.

        What you can do is seize their property and lock up anyone who actively helps them subvert the court's orders for contempt.  However that sometimes takes force too.

        William Hamilton practices Law and is a writer and community activist in the Charleston, SC area. He can reached through www.wjhamilton.com

        by wjhamilton29464 on Thu Apr 17, 2014 at 09:49:55 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I'd be curious to read (17+ / 0-)

      your comment had this turned into a gun battle wherein the front line women got blasted by the BLM and other federal agents.

      I could probably write it myself.

      I always find it amazing here that the same people who are appalled by enforcement agencies real or supposed "excessive force" are seen as capitulators when they don't use excessive force.

      " My faith in the Constitution is whole; it is complete; it is total." Barbara Jordan, 1974

      by gchaucer2 on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 11:01:49 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I think it's more a matter of ... (13+ / 0-)

        ... what I noted in another thread.  It's not that they didn't use excessive force.  It's that they arrest and use excessive force against peaceful protesters, but these yokels are facing no consequences whatsoever.

        Peaceful protestors of police violence here in Albuquerque are tear-gassed and confronted with armoured vehicles and hordes of armoured officers.

        Peaceful Occupy protesters are arrested by the hundreds even though they're in public areas.

        But there in Nevada a bunch of angry thugs can trespass on federal land and confront and threaten law enforcement officers with high-powered heavy weaponry ... they can call for armed insurrection against the government ... they can violate all the laws and court orders they want ... and ... ?

        As far as I know, nothing.  No consequences.  

        I hope there are some.  Will there be later arrests for this blatant law-breaking?  Did they video all those guys with guns, to be able to identify them?

        •  Valid point but how do they arrest them (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          gchaucer2, ExpatGirl, ChuckChuckerson

          without violence?  So because police departments around the country (and as far as the evidence goes completely on their own) went overboard against protestors, we should be upset when the federal government decides that a situation would turn violent and looks for other answers?  

          This is a class example of a false equivalency.  The BLM had zero to do with the Occupy protests and the unreasonable force used there.  

          We should be applauding that the administration kept a level head and didn't act out of emotion or fear.

          All that said, we must keep the pressure on local law enforcement to stop the use of violence and lethal force to deal with their problems.  But let's keep the issues focused.

          •  I'm personally ok with violence. (0+ / 0-)

            Do we refuse to use force against drug dealers, bank robbers, or Muslim terrorists?

            I personally was appalled at the outrage by Ruby Ridge and Waco, not the federal actions in either case.

            People refused to comply with federal laws, then killed federal agents when they attempted to enforce the law.  Federal agents returned fire.  In Waco, the crazy cult killed themselves rather than go into custody, as cults often do.

            Using violence against peaceful, unarmed protesters is a violation of the law.  Using violence against armed, violent people carrying out the act of sedition and literally planning on how to kill federal agents- that's enforcing the law (and stealing federal property).

            There should be no applauding federal agents that don't enforce the law when they're threatened.

      •  You just argued that ever enviornmental (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Patango, HCKAD

        activist trying to stop Keystone ought to start packing heat, so that cops will back off to "avoid an incident" instead of arresting them.

        Oh...wait.  That's almost certainly not what we'd here from the Resident Right were these leftists being told it's ok to front of the Feds by force.

        Overheard a Frenchman trying to explain Thomas Freidman to a Brit "He's got shit for brains -- but that's his asset. That's why he appeals to the US bourgeoisie."

        by JesseCW on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 11:25:52 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  What? (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ExpatGirl, Mikey

          Your fantasy life is amazing.  You promote violence and then make up shite.  

          " My faith in the Constitution is whole; it is complete; it is total." Barbara Jordan, 1974

          by gchaucer2 on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 11:37:50 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Because none of your advocacy for empowering (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Patango, reflectionsv37

            right wing nuts with guns threatening Federal Agents would extend to left wing nuts with guns threatening Federal Agents?

            You argued that when kooks mass firepower and threaten to kill a bunch of people....the Feds should back down "to save lives".

            Or...does that only work for some causes?

            Overheard a Frenchman trying to explain Thomas Freidman to a Brit "He's got shit for brains -- but that's his asset. That's why he appeals to the US bourgeoisie."

            by JesseCW on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 11:41:28 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  It's not equivalent. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Patango, reflectionsv37

              Anti-KXL or Occupy protesters that displayed weapons would be immediately put down with violence, and then every media outlet would unanimously condemn them and defend the actions of the police. Any protests for these causes after that point would be met with a drastically increased level of hostility from police, and the media would make sure that the public felt the same way.

              So yes, using thuggery only works for some causes. We aren't on an even playing field here at all.

          •  gchaucer2 complains about "fantasy life" (0+ / 0-)

            After posting this?

            I'd be curious to read (14+ / 0-)

            your comment had this turned into a gun battle wherein the front line women got blasted by the BLM and other federal agents.

            I could probably write it myself.

            I always find it amazing here that the same people who are appalled by enforcement agencies real or supposed "excessive force" are seen as capitulators when they don't use excessive force.

            Give us a break

            Beer Drinkers & Hell Raisers

            by Patango on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 02:25:39 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  avoiding another waco over cows. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      commonmass

      the feds can quietly move in and grab the cows
      another time.

      Or if they need to show up with crowd control vehicles,
      and lots of CS gas to disperse them.

      And have some counter-snipers deployed.

      I've heard these federal Snipers are the best in the world.

      But if you are going to have whackos sniping out of
      traps, you need to have some high spotters to take them
      out.

      Frankly if an FBI sniper had seen that eric parker zeroing
      in on a BLM ranger, it would have been legal to shoot him.

      •  Insuring another Waco, over something. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        patbahn

        Most people don't stop using tactics that get rewarded.

        Overheard a Frenchman trying to explain Thomas Freidman to a Brit "He's got shit for brains -- but that's his asset. That's why he appeals to the US bourgeoisie."

        by JesseCW on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 11:26:56 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I am sick of hearing this. (9+ / 0-)

      Can any of those taking this stance please clarify for me how many lives you think deserved to be lost over this? One, five, 20, 100? More?

      What, in your mind, would be an acceptable loss in terms of BLM employees? How about the contractors trying to round up and move the cattle? Or were those people somehow bullet proof?

      There was absolutely nothing to be gained by having a blood bath this weekend. Nothing but lots of dead people and a fired up reactionary wing ready to step up and martyr itself across the country.

      Tell Warner Brothers Pictures that Rooney Mara is #NotYourTigerLily.

      by ExpatGirl on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 11:10:56 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  WTF (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Patango

        Where do people get off think the only alternative to caving is launching an assault.

        Think for chrissake.

        Disagreeing with a total cave is not the same as advocating an all-out assault.

        "What could BPossibly go wrong??" -RLMiller "God is just pretend." - eru

        by nosleep4u on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 11:30:18 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  What fantasy land are you living in that you think (0+ / 0-)

          the situation this weekend wouldn't have spun out of control the second the first shot was fired, by either side?

          My thinking is just fine. You need to get out of whatever video game of superhero movie is guiding yours on this subject, however, and join us in the real world.

          Tell Warner Brothers Pictures that Rooney Mara is #NotYourTigerLily.

          by ExpatGirl on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 11:33:38 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  I'm sick people defending every cave to the (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Patango

        extreme right while desperately trying to convince me they don't sympathize with the causes of the extreme right.

        So, everyone is sick of something.

        I don't take seriously any of the people who are pretending to be so thick that they actually believe there was a choice between an immediate bloodbath and a victory for the guys who decided they had the right to tell the Feds what to do at gunpoint.

        I don't thank anyone capable of writing in complete sentences is genuinely that limited.

        It's easy to get all worked up and shout that you're "sick" of hearing that caving to the right empowers the right, but you haven't offered a counter argument.

        You haven't even tried to disagree.

        Overheard a Frenchman trying to explain Thomas Freidman to a Brit "He's got shit for brains -- but that's his asset. That's why he appeals to the US bourgeoisie."

        by JesseCW on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 11:31:25 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yeah. I didn't think you had an answer (0+ / 0-)

          to my question.

          Aren't you one of the people who loves to run around calling others "blood thirsty war mongers" when situations like chemical weapons in Syria come up?

          Tell Warner Brothers Pictures that Rooney Mara is #NotYourTigerLily.

          by ExpatGirl on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 11:35:29 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Simple answer ... They didn't "cave" (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ExpatGirl, wasatch, liberte, etherealfire

          This issue will be resolved. It might take a week, it might take a month, it might take longer, but it will be resolved, and not in Bundy's favor.

          The first court ruling against Bundy was issued in 1998. The Clinton administration had already been through Waco and Oklahoma City, and at that point, he had not yet racked up $1 million in fines, so they were probably still trying to solve the issue administratively. Two years later, GW Bush was elected, and appointed Kathleen Clarke as Director of the BLM. Clarke, who ran the bureau until 2006, holds a law degree from Brigham Young University and is a practicing Mormon. She also became known for cozying up to resource extraction industries. So, probably not hard to figure out why nothing happened during that 5-year stretch.

          I haven't found much information on the 2 subsequent directors, but the current acting director, Mike Pool, took over in 2012. My guess is it is he who brought this case back to BLM's front burner.

          The government has options. They can freeze Bundy's assets, arrest him at some point when he's off his property, or simply wait until things settle down and most of the militia wingnuts get bored and go home, then try again, perhaps with a stronger show of force. Federal law enforcement officials need to sit the governor of Nevada (who publicly supported Bundy) down and have a long and serious chat with him, and secure the assistance of the Nevada National Guard to keep things in check, if necessary.

          What's important to remember here is that Bundy has no allies outside the militia movement, some Tea Party politicians in Nevada and right-wing media agitators like Hannity. The Nevada Cattlemen's Association and his neighbors and fellow ranchers are opposing him. None of them have much love for the BLM, but they all say Bundy has no legitimate grievance.

          I vote we run Rick Scott out of Florida on a high-speed rail.

          by ObamOcala on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 12:08:06 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Freeze his assets (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            HCKAD

            all of them.  No need to take those cattle, no need to kill them either.  Just freeze his bank accounts, find a way to garnish him, and for God's sake, if he is collecting any Federal money take it away.  Why these people think they get to live off the rest of us just boggles the mind.

            I do think it is a small problem that BLM gave up though.  Not sure what the solution there would be, but the fact that armed nutters can accomplish this kind of thing is NOT good.

            I hope his heirs get nothing but a big fat bill from the Feds that they cannot escape paying.  

            As for that governor, I would think impeachment might be possible there if enough of his "constituents" could be so persuaded.  Who in hell does he think he is?  Federal money to his state should be stopped too.  If these people think they can live without gubmint, let them REALLY try it.

      •  How many lives is sedition worth? (0+ / 0-)

        Well 150 years ago we decided treason and sedition was worth 2.5 million lives.  1.5 million were from the law abiding northern states.

        They are fired up right now.  They think they won.  They now think they can refuse to follow our laws and simply threaten mob violence, and then get away with it.

        Anarchy isn't ok.  Sedition isn't ok.  Treason isn't ok.

        Shay's Rebellion, Whiskey Rebellion:
        Both rebels and American (militia) forces died.  But we established a precedent of what happens when you decide you're above the federal government.  That saved way more lives than it cost.

        •  They thought they were above (0+ / 0-)

          the federal government before they decided to aim guns at federal employees and civilian contractors onsite to transport the cattle.

          I don't like the situation any more than you do but there was zero guarantee that the 'good' guys would have won a shoot out over the weekend. And just how bold would the traitors feel then?

          Some seem to think a gun battle would have solved the problem we have in this country with armed wingnuts. I think it would have lit the powder keg fuse.

          The explosion is most assuredly coming though and I have no doubt it will be the bloodbath.

          Tell Warner Brothers Pictures that Rooney Mara is #NotYourTigerLily.

          by ExpatGirl on Thu Apr 17, 2014 at 05:28:07 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  alas, this will end as it always does anytime the (0+ / 0-)

      nutters gather, wave their AR-15s,  and yell "WOLVERINES !!!!"

      It ends with a bunch of dead nutters.

      :(

      In the end, reality always wins.

      by Lenny Flank on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 12:04:19 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  This pretty much sums up Hannity's greatest (20+ / 0-)

    fear:

    It was a pathetic display from Hannity, but I'll concede this point: Until his stunt last night, I'd actually forgotten he was still on the air.

    "Speak the TRUTH, even if your voice shakes."

    by stellaluna on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 10:44:53 AM PDT

  •  so in Hannityworld......... (23+ / 0-)

    the Senate Majority Leader gives orders to arrest people?

    Good to know.

    Meanwhile, in reality............

  •  Bundy's neighbors and the Nevada Media are all (49+ / 0-)

    pissed off.  Especially at Right Wing Hate Media. They all agree Bundy's breaking the law.

    In St. George, UT., the closest city with its own daily media, the online St. George News weighed in with a critical piece Sunday that also took aim at the national press supporting Bundy, stating: "The Bundy Range War was perpetuated by an irresponsible media vying for nothing more than ratings and an ill-informed and willfully ignorant public who, much like a NASCAR fan, come to the race simply in hopes of seeing a crash."

    "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." --M. L. King "You can't fix stupid" --Ron White -6.00, -5.18

    by zenbassoon on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 10:46:53 AM PDT

  •  Sehmiotics: the science of Meh (29+ / 0-)

    Hannity's confusing Bundy Ranch with Bunny Ranch


    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

    Warning - some snark may be above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 "I’m not the strapping young Muslim socialist that I used to be" - Barack Obama 04/27/2013 (@eState4Column5).

    by annieli on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 10:47:35 AM PDT

  •  Corsi (WND Birther), Infowars, Chinese Solar Farm (12+ / 0-)

    It was Inforwars and Birther king who started this flap about Harry Reid trying to grab the Bundy ranch for a "Chinese solar farm"

    http://www.wnd.com/...

    ....along withe conspiracy site (beware the FEMA camps!) Infowars

    http://www.infowars.com/...

    Men are so necessarily mad, that not to be mad would amount to another form of madness. -Pascal

    by bernardpliers on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 10:47:44 AM PDT

    •  There is even a video (9+ / 0-)

      with "proof" of the solar farm connection. My brother said on Facebook that if you take ten minutes to watch it you will be informed about what is really happening.

      I linked the snopes false rating and for good measure the breitbart article debunking it since only wingnut sites are valid for these people. Not sure why since I Know no one ever follows links on Facebook unless it is to find out what color your aura is or what punk rocker you are most like.

      Most of the people taking a hard line against us are firmly convinced that they are the last defenders of civilization... The last stronghold of mother, God, home and apple pie and they're full of shit! David Crosby, Journey Thru the Past.

      by Mike S on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 11:02:58 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Canceled Project Almost 200 Miles From Bundy (7+ / 0-)

        Bundy is near Bunkerville NV and the proposed project (canceled in 2013) was in Laughlin NV nearly 200 miles away on the other side of Las Vegas and Lake Mead.

        You can see how this disinformation is generated here.  I have also seen this done by Creationists and AGW deniers.

        http://appalachianareanews.com/...

        The article uses standard conspiracy theory technique of quotes from different sources as if they were related. First there is a quote about Bundy's land and there is a quote about the proposed Chinese project in Laughlin, without mentioning that they are 180 miles apart and that the Chinese project never got past the talking stage.

        Men are so necessarily mad, that not to be mad would amount to another form of madness. -Pascal

        by bernardpliers on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 11:28:31 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  On (14+ / 0-)

    What looks like a Government built bridge with Government installed safety guards, using as a shield at least he isn't using the old lady sitting next to him, and pointing at Law Enforcement personal, at the ready to pull that trigger!!

    You can bet, just like pro-peace unarmed rallies, pics were taken, names retrieved, auto plate number collected and probably a few infiltrators within, all to be used and watched for in the communities they live in or reports from places they'll travel to next!!

    "If military action is worth our troops' blood, it should be worth our treasure, too; not just in the abstract, but in the form of a specific ante by every American." -Andrew Rosenthal 10 Feb. 2013

    by jimstaro on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 10:49:28 AM PDT

    •  It cheers me up a bit (10+ / 0-)

      to think that maybe there were infiltrators collected audio and license plate numbers.  Tracking these violence-craving yahoos is quite necessary and I hope the feds are all over it.  

      "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

      by lgmcp on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 11:12:01 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  OK (5+ / 0-)

      Now imagine if someone had showed up at an Occupy site the government was getting ready to bust up and trained a rifle on the police. I wonder how that would have ended. Jesus, so much for equal protection of the law.

    •  Pleeze! (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      PsychoSavannah, jimstaro, wasatch

      What's the point of servicing your weapon, driving out there, staying on the gummint paid for overpass with the gummint paid for Jersey Barrier,  standing up to Ebil Gummint with firearms, and such if nobody knows you did it and spells your name right?

    •  Brandishing (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cybersaur, HCKAD

      It's odd to me that since that guy is brandishing a firearm at government officials, they have it on film and even know who it is that he was not charged with anything.

      I mean, I can totally understand why they let the cattle go and avoided a gunfight, but it is interesting that some of the people who were actually violating the law by brandishing firearms at law enforcement or who illegally transported firearms across state lines were not fined or charged.

      Also at any gun show I've ever attended there are always a few LEO's checking serial numbers to make sure that people aren't selling stolen firearms and checking id's to make sure no felons are selling firearms.

      Given so many people were carrying guns and were from out of state it would seem a quick check to make sure they had legal guns would have been in order.

    •  From your keyboard to Eric Holder's eyes ... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      HCKAD

      But ... frankly ... I think that (as usual) (and say it with me)

      The political will JUST isn't THERE !

      Looking forward ... never back ... PROGRESSive White House.

      •  I would agree (0+ / 0-)

        the political will is not there.  Bundy has local law enforement buddies who would probably intervene if one of the nutters was charged.  This IS a problem though - I mean my God, how will this kind of thing ever stop if these people keep getting away with it?  Lets hope license plates are tracked and that these people end up on a watch list, somewhere...

  •  If he want to be a sovereign citizen (10+ / 0-)

    Then treat him like one. Put up border patrols around his 'property', make him sign a treaty to be able to enter the US with passports, put tariffs on anything he tries to sell here, basically give him the land and ruin his life for as long as he advocates this nonsense.

    Do Pavlov's dogs chase Schroedinger's cat?

    by corwin on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 10:51:32 AM PDT

  •  I'm not much of a hunter (7+ / 0-)

    But it seems to me that any cattle grazing for free on BLM land ought to be fair game.

    Pay your fees, and your cows get microchipped and an orange blaze and some official protection.

    Don't pay your fees?  No markings on your cattle, and any gun nut with an assault weapon can get himself a freezer full of steaks for the winter.

    I'm half joking, of course.  Truth is, the feds need to wait three months or so and then arrest this idiot when he's not armed and doesn't expect it.

    “If the misery of the poor be caused not by the laws of nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin.” Charles Darwin

    by ivorybill on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 10:52:14 AM PDT

  •  asdf (15+ / 0-)

    Cliven Bundy owes the Federal government for land use fees, and the courts have said he does, why hasn't the Federal government just attached his bank accounts and started the legal process to take his property unless he pays?    

    Why start this publicity-fraught kerfuffle over seizing his cattle?

    "The diffusion of knowledge is the only guardian of true liberty." James Madison

    by mslat27 on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 10:52:14 AM PDT

    •  Yes, bank liens seem prudent and practical (5+ / 0-)

      if in fact Bundy actually utilizes the vast banking conspiracy run by the you-know-who's .... no, wait, that was a different guy -- but maybe not THAT different.  

      "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

      by lgmcp on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 11:15:19 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Because seizing his cattle IS taking his (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      PsychoSavannah, wasatch, mslat27

      property.  They've completed the legal process, they just needed to complete the physical process.  Or do you think he'll go quietly if they try to kick him off his land in order to seize that rather than his cattle?

      I'm sure he's got his money in some trust or someone else's name to make sure the government can't seize it.  Wouldn't be surprised if he has his real property set up the same way.

      I do have to admit, I've been wondering whether he, like most large ranchers and farmers, doesn't get significant government subsidies they could stop paying him or something.

    •  Obviously (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Lilith, mslat27

      I am not privy to how our government goes about these sort of things, but golly gee whiz the last damn thing that is needed is a freaking shootout.

      Why start this publicity-fraught kerfuffle over seizing his cattle?
      The media is treating this like it was some Hollywood film and they and the whackos that showed up with their guns are all salivating for some huge confrontation with guns a blazing.

      No, fuck that shit. Be smart, or perhaps one should say "smarter." Really now, we are not dealing with mensa material out in the Nevada desert or in the Fox studios, so I say just outsmart these people and DO NOT give them what they so desperately want.

      I guarantee we the people will piss these players off far more by being smart and NOT giving them what they want. And really now, isn't that what we would just love to do? Outsmart them and then play them down as the redneck right wing whackos that they are. The media wants the ratings that a shootout would bring and that is the last thing we should serve up to them.

      Fuck these fuckers and work smart. After all, do we not consider ourselves just a wee bit brighter than the Republican Taliban?

       

      "We can either have democracy in this country or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." Louis Brandeis

      by wxorknot on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 12:10:31 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Grab a rifle and take your sorry ass out there (6+ / 0-)

    Hannity....Fight for your conservative principles....schmuck.

  •  Eric Parker appears to be aiming at I-15 traffic (8+ / 0-)

    Or in NRA-speak, merely asserting his Second Amendment rights.

  •  I did learn one thing from this that I did not (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    commonmass, The Termite, wasatch

    know before.  The Federal government owns a shitload of land in the Western part of this country.   Is there a good reason why this much of the country is owned by the government?

     

     Nevada           84.5%
        Alaska            69.1%
        Utah               57.4%
        Oregon           53.1%
        Idaho              50.2%
        Arizona           48.1%
        California        45.3%
        Wyoming         42.3%
        New Mexico     41.8%
        Colorado          36.6%
    Source: BLM

    If you get confused, listen to the music play - R. Hunter

    by SpamNunn on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 10:52:58 AM PDT

    •  Because they stole it fair and square from (17+ / 0-)

      Native Americans.

      Pope Francis: the Thumb of Christ in the eyes of the Pharisees.

      by commonmass on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 10:54:39 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Does that include National Parks &...? (12+ / 0-)

      protected lands?

      If so, I think that's a very good reason... The "Yosemite-Big Dome Ritz Carlton" doesn't sound very appealing to me..

      Baby, where I come from...

      by ThatSinger on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 10:57:30 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Yes (13+ / 0-)

      As I understand it, most BLM land falls into one of a few categories.

      It may not be appropriate for human settlement because it lacks infrastructure like potable water and electricity, so there is little or no demand to own and use the land, but the land must still be managed and protected.

      Or it may be primarily or solely purposed for the delivery of infrastructure and resources like water and electricity to areas that are already settled, and those kinds of lands require management in partnership with other entities.

      This is off the top of my head. I'm sure more detailed and reliable answers lie out there on the tubes.

    •  because the states got a certain chunk (8+ / 0-)

      of land upon becoming states, and the feds got the rest.  much of the fed holdings are parks, monuments , forests, preserves etc,  nevada for instance , took the best land in the state for itself  to manage, and let the feds have the rest, which turned out to be 80%. alaska got 100 million acres to build a tax base from, the other 275 million is owned by the feds, and again much of that land is protected in one form or another. there really is no such thing as too much protected land, frankly, and the blm has possession of several areas, like la bajada mesa in Nm, that should be monuments, in my view.

    •  Don't know where you got the numbers from but (7+ / 0-)

      I'd guess you also have a whole lot of Indian Reservation land in those numbers.   The Four Corners numbers just popped out at me.  

      Nevada is different, no one else wanted the land in 1863, just the gold.  

      BTW: All the BLM needs to do in this situation is to evict the cattle from the federal land (I think they did that already), then hire some cowpokes to keep this guy's cattle out (they're branded).  He'll have to sell out soon enough when the cattle start starving or he figures out how much he'll have to shell out for feed in drought years.  

      Then, the IRS is gonna go after him for the back taxes for the fees (in excess of one million dollars) he DIDN'T pay and consider it income.  

      It will be a few years, but by getting all his friends with guns involved, he really screwed himself in the long run.  Now, this guy is on all kinds of Federal radar (and investigations).  He's going broke and to jail.

      ... the watchword of true patriotism: "Our country - when right to be kept right; when wrong to be put right." - Carl Schurz; Oct. 17, 1899

      by NevDem on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 11:12:46 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  right - a new Homestead Act? (5+ / 0-)

      why does the government own so much property?  because no one else does.

      I guess you would propose a new Homestead Act where anyone could go into federal lands - set up a homestead and after enough time it becomes theirs?

      Or maybe return to the native tribes?

      or maybe just sell of all the mineral rights to corporations for a pittance and then never bother to collect?  -  oh right, that is pretty much what has been done already.

    •  A bigger question. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      PsychoSavannah, lgmcp, fenway49, Ahianne

      Since the Federal government, which is our representative, allows ranchers to use our property for very low cost compared to what they would pay private owners, is there a good reason why we taxpayers are getting ripped off?

      If you don't watch news, you're un-informed. If you watch Fox news, you're mis-informed. (paraphrasing Mark Twain)

      by edg on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 11:14:54 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  That's right (0+ / 0-)

        Time for some "deficit reduction."

        “Republicans...think American standard of living is a fine thing--so long as it doesn't spread to all the people... And they admire of Government of the United States so much that they would like to buy it.” Harry S. Truman

        by fenway49 on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 12:31:37 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  You need to read a history book. (0+ / 0-)

        Before the English Parliament passed the Enclosure Acts, open lands and farms lands were held, in common, by the people, and were used for farming and pasturage.  

        It was only when the Government took control of the lands and gave those rights to the nobility, or to rich landholders, that the common farmer got screwed out of his right to graze his livestock.

        You've got things backwards.  We get ripped off when we can't use the land for the common good, the way it was used before government grabbed it all.  

        If you get confused, listen to the music play - R. Hunter

        by SpamNunn on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 01:57:19 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Sorry, Spam, it's you who has it backwards. n/t (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          gustynpip

          If you don't watch news, you're un-informed. If you watch Fox news, you're mis-informed. (paraphrasing Mark Twain)

          by edg on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 02:54:23 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  History lesson for you Spamm = or perhaps (0+ / 0-)

          a political lesson.

          When people come together and make decisions, it's called government.  You know that English Parliament that passed the Enclosure Acts - that was a government.  And the people then deciding how that land would be managed?  That was government, too.

          I swear right wingers are incapable of ever think before spouting,  I was reading the opening paragraph in the National Review about Obamacare and it said "People hate it, they don't want it, but they don't want it to go away either.  Ummm.  If they don't want it to go away, then They Want It.  Dumbasses.

    •  It is true but there are multiple reasons (10+ / 0-)

      First, the land is held in trust for the people of the United States, not anyone who thinks they can grab a part of it.

      Second, most of the land is not inhabitable - nor should it be.

      Third, the land is intensively used already - no sense in privatizing resources that should belong to all of us.  In fact, the Mining Act gives way too much power to mineral extractors in most federal land .  National forests are logged, and BLM land is intensively (excessively) grazed.  This is supposed to generate fees for all citizens, but in fact we don't charge near enough for private extraction on public land.

      Fourth, are we supposed to open this for homesteading? What possible justification could there be for simply handing over this land to Bundy?  Because his family was there for a few generations?  My family was in the Big Bend region of Texas and then in Arizona right from the start - do I get the right to claim federal land too?  Do I get the right to claim whatever the hell I want, and if Bundy does, why not me?

      And with respect to the special issues in Nevada, there is a huge amount of military land there.  And most of the basin and range is not exactly habitable.  

      “If the misery of the poor be caused not by the laws of nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin.” Charles Darwin

      by ivorybill on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 11:15:26 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  You mean owned by the taxpayers? (5+ / 0-)

      It's because the government gave less of it away for free back a century or so ago.  Plus it was part of the agreements the states signed in order to become a part of the US.  

      And if you've spent anytime in the west, you know there are massive swaths of land in many of those states that is essentially useless as far as farming or ranching go.  Drive through the vast miles of nothingness in, for example, the Winslow, Arizona area, where I believe you can buy about 10,000 acres for a few hundred dollars.  But what you'd ever do with it once you bought it, I have on idea.

      And then, of course, are those incredible wonderful and valuable (to all citizens) Federal Parks that are providing us all with an opportunity to see the wonders of our country - and that opportunity will hopefully be provided to our grandchildren as well, since they are owned by the EBIL GOBERMENT!

    •  Have you SEEN what's in Nevada? (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      PsychoSavannah, wasatch, Ahianne

      and the other Western states?  A WHOLE lot of nuthin' that goes on forever.  Now don't get me wrong, I love the wide, wide open spaces of the American West, but at the time when the government annexed so very much of it,  tribal rights were pretty much the only competition.

      Ewan MacColl wrote in a song lyric, "No man has the right to all mountains / Any more than the deep ocean bed".   Other uninhabitable zones, such as parched desert, fall under the same logic.  

      As for the idea that government is equivalent to private landowners, I reject it.  That's OUR land, all of us, collectively.  

      "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

      by lgmcp on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 11:21:34 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  What good is that, if we can't use it? (0+ / 0-)

        See my comment, above, about the Enclosure Acts.  

        Does no one read a history book anymore?

        If you get confused, listen to the music play - R. Hunter

        by SpamNunn on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 01:58:57 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  We can use it (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          gustynpip, Ahianne

          I hike and camp on BLM lands all the time, without restriction.  And I WANT abusive practices like over-grazing to be curtailed.

          "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

          by lgmcp on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 02:07:47 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Overgrazing? I agree. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Patango

            Just grazing?  No.   I don't agree.  

            Plenty of herbivores were grazing the West before yuppies in compression shorts on a mountain bikes made it their personal park.  It's for all of the people, not just those with GoCams on their heads.

            If you get confused, listen to the music play - R. Hunter

            by SpamNunn on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 02:15:54 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Just how do you propose (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              gustynpip, Ahianne

              to prevent over-grazing and streambed degradation without a permitting system?  

              And do you really think bicyclists are the core problem with western lands?  Class-based animus seems to be getting you carried away.  The BLM and Forest Service cater extensively to extractive industries so I don't know where you get the idea that recreational users are running the show.

              "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

              by lgmcp on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 02:23:28 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  And who's to decide whether it's overgrazing? (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Ahianne

              And who has the ability to prevent overgrazing?  And how will that be done?

              It's done by the BLM and by charging fees to those  using and benefiting from it.  

  •  Does that count as sedition? (8+ / 0-)

    He certainly seems eager to incite violence.

  •  Obama (6+ / 0-)

    should just send in the National Guard and arrest every last one of them. The government just looks ridiculous in all this for putting up with any of it for even one moment. I just don't get it.

    •  Sit and wait. These guys aren't gonna go that (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      commonmass, a2nite

      long w/o McGriddles.

      Overheard a Frenchman trying to explain Thomas Freidman to a Brit "He's got shit for brains -- but that's his asset. That's why he appeals to the US bourgeoisie."

      by JesseCW on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 11:10:49 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Aye, Aye (0+ / 0-)

      and it emboldens them for the next time, because they are really spoiling for a fight. Perhaps an example should have been made so other armchair warriors don't get the same idea.

    •  Then again, do we really need any real life (0+ / 0-)

      martyrs on their side?  We know they'd be happy to put their women and children on the front lines, so they wouldn't be at risk themselves.

      Plus, you don't arrest people for debt in this country.  Nor do you arrest them for threatening to break a law.  You have to wait until they've actually broken a law.

      I admit, I was disappointed when the BLM just walked away.  But the situation is not an easy one to find a satisfactory solution to, and I realize that leaving a very tense situation in which nearly anything could happen is the wise choice.  Hopefully, BLM won't be giving up, but will be approaching the situation from a new angle soon.

      •  You arrest them for threatening federal agents (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        HCKAD

        who are performing their official duties. I was a civil investigator for the feds once, decades ago, and knowing that Bundy is getting away with this sort of conduct infuriates me. When a federal employee is threatened with violence, I want the whole world to come down on the ones doing the threatening.

        This doesn't mean that they should have opened fire on the spot. But here's what I want to see: I want the FBI to investigate every dumb son of a bitch who aimed a rifle, arrest them, and charge them. I want the US Attorney to try them, and if they are convicted, I want the judge to send them to prison.

        It's the rule of law, people.

  •  I can't believe they gave the cows back (8+ / 0-)

    For realz people?

    I understand backing off to keep from having a bloody gun battle, but giving back the cows you had already rounded up?

    It is better to light a candle than curse the darkness- Unknown -7.50, -5.03

    by dawgflyer13 on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 10:55:31 AM PDT

  •  It's a tough nut to crack. BLM appears to be (10+ / 0-)

    giving in to what are essentially domestic terrorists, which makes them look cowed, no pun intended. On the other hand, clearly, there was potential for a great deal of danger. Had there been a gunfight of massive proportions, every gun nut in the country would be screaming "Avenge David Koresh!".

    There has got to be a way to put a lien on any property he owns, including his cattle. I suspect that's how they'll settle it.

    Pope Francis: the Thumb of Christ in the eyes of the Pharisees.

    by commonmass on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 10:57:02 AM PDT

    •  Had they simply surrounded them and (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      commonmass, cybersaur, HCKAD

      waited him out, it would have been over in a week or two.

      Now, every gun nut in the country thinks they can win a standoff with Teh Gubmint if they have a posse and Fox News gets interested.

      Overheard a Frenchman trying to explain Thomas Freidman to a Brit "He's got shit for brains -- but that's his asset. That's why he appeals to the US bourgeoisie."

      by JesseCW on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 11:13:21 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Brandishing (10+ / 0-)

    Not sure about Nevada but where I live brandishing a weapon and pointing a gun a folks are both crimes, why hasn't Eric Parker been arrested?

  •  The Koch Brothers Gestapo And Beerhall Putsch? (9+ / 0-)

    (comment from yesterday)

    Notice that Harry Reid criticizes the Kochs and ta-da! Suddenly the right wing Koch controlled groups like Americans For Prosperity are making Bundy a martyr for freedom. And the usual flabby jackhole conspiracy nuts start running around with AKs.

    These land use cases often follow the same pattern - someone ignores years of warnings from local or federal agencies and is making a nice profit (never running an orphanage or Girl Scout camp) through the illegal use of public land.

    In this case the guy has been grazing cattle on public BLM land without paying grazing fees for 20 years. This BLM land he's been using illegally gets lumped in with "the Bundy Ranch" by the conspiracy people.

    And he's been overgrazing the land with  hundreds more cattle than he can legally support on that land, which is essentially a desert. This becomes the "desert tortoise" argument, and as we all know, the Endangered Species Act equals UN Agenda 21. The point is that rules like this exist exactly so parasites like Bundy don't reduce federal land to a new Dust Bowl.

    Also, the Bundy Ranch where his family has lived since the 1890s is almost certainly a land grant from the federal government, who thoughtfully went in and killed the Indians before giving the Bundys their land in the first place.

    There's the typical scenario where the "hero" has been a parasite on the system. Oh and no doubt it will turn out he's been grubbing every agricultural subsidy he can get while flipping off the government.

    Then the milita clown car show up with lots and lots of people who don't have jobs, but plenty of money for weapons and travel from out of state. Want to bet how many of them are drawing federal pensions and disability? I bet 1/3 of them claim they are too disabled to drive. You'd better wear ski masks guys!

    And then there is this business about the solar energy farms. This all about the militias organizing to get the tyrannical iron heel of solar energy off necks of Americans. Did you just spew coffee onto you computer screen?

    What you have are the Kochs who are the nations biggest petrochemical and pipeline tycoons who have no interest in seeing local people getting clean power and profit from desert sunshine. The local people need to be bludgeoned to allow their land to be fracked and have Koch pipelines run across their property. Let them get a taste of clean energy and watch that tide turn. And now we are seeing the curtain pulled back on the Koch's private heavily armed Gestapo, which is still only loosely organized but operational.

    It would take only a minor investment to have them acting like Russians in Crimea......oh wait, they are behaving like the Russians - outsiders showing up with AKs hoping for a confrontation with the government.

    And where were these clowns when Canadian company Transcanada was trying to seize land in Nebraska for the Keystone pipeline? Gee, need I even point out that the Kochs build pipelines and they are biggest non-Canadian holders of tar sands leases.

    Finally, the proposed Chinese solar energy project in Laughlin is supposedly the root of the conspiracy.  But they don't mention that Laughlin is nearly 200 miles away from the Bundy ranch on the other side of Lake Mead and Las Vegas.   The web pages about the project were taken down in 2013 when the project never got past the talking stages. This  has the CT crowd screaming "Coverup!"

    Ruby Ridge was more than 20 years ago - their movement needs fresh martyrs and a Blutfahne.
    (wikiperia)

     The Blutfahne (pronounced [bluːtˈfaːnə], "Blood-flag") was an individual Nazi German Swastika flag used in the failed Beer Hall Putsch in Munich, Germany on 9 November 1923. It subsequently became one of the most revered objects of the Nazi Party. The flag was that of the 5th SA Sturm that was covered in blood from members of the Nazi Party who had been shot by the Munich police (primarily from party member Andreas Bauriedl, who fell on top of the flag when he was shot and killed)...

        The flag was thereafter treated as a sacred object by the Nazi Party and carried by SS-Sturmbannführer Jakob Grimminger at various Nazi party ceremonies. One of the most visible uses of the flag was by Adolf Hitler, who, at the Party's annual Nuremberg rallies, touched other Nazi banners with the Blutfahne, thereby "sanctifying" them.

    Men are so necessarily mad, that not to be mad would amount to another form of madness. -Pascal

    by bernardpliers on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 10:59:19 AM PDT

  •  That "militiaman" who posted the sign (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    commonmass, Aquarius40

    must be lovestruck.  Otherwise, why would he be sighing over Milita.

  •  Hannity should go out there and report live (10+ / 0-)

    ... while strapping on a piece or toting an AR-15.

    You know, just to prove he's a real patriot, too.

    What a friggin' coward. Just like so many of these gun-totin', fake cowboys.

    The feds ought to roll in a few armored vehicles and lay down a line of fire in the dirt, right in front of these jackasses. They'd all run and shit their drawers like the cowards they are.

    The fucking stupid gun culture in this country is simply inane. Look what it has created. A bunch of yahoos.

    And, boy, we don't hear much from our local RKBA contingent about these assholes walking around with their guns.

    Oh, sure, a few of the gun toters here mocked the clown with his gun in the crack, but you don't hear jack shit from our "liberal gun crowd" on what our fucked up gun policies have wrought.

    "Conceal carry!"

    "Open carry!"

    Yeah, look what we're left with...

    "Bob Johnson doesn't have special privileges, because really, why would I entrust that guy with ANYTHING?" - kos, November 9, 2013

    by Bob Johnson on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 11:03:10 AM PDT

    •  one said 'nothing to see here then, move on' (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mikejay611, commonmass

      iirc, that we were making too much of it

    •  If you're opposed to "gun culture" (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ChuckChuckerson

      then I'm surprised you think armed response for the sake of one-ups-manship is a prudent and logical solution.  

      "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

      by lgmcp on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 11:27:21 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Right. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cybersaur, biloxiblues

        These ignorant gun fucks are awfully tough when walking around with their rifles. I imagine they'd crap their pants if the feds laid down a line of fire at their feet.

        "Bob Johnson doesn't have special privileges, because really, why would I entrust that guy with ANYTHING?" - kos, November 9, 2013

        by Bob Johnson on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 11:31:37 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Scratch a bully, find a coward, every time (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ChuckChuckerson, Bob Johnson, Ahianne

          but that still doesn't mean that fighting fire with fire is the best solution.   Looking tough, saving face, fearing humiliation:  these are the concerns of macho fools.  Public policy should be guided by something a little smarter than dick-measuring contest.

          "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

          by lgmcp on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 11:36:17 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Probably. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            lgmcp

            But these needledicks may need to be drilled into the pavement a little bit to get the point across. I'm not saying to shoot them, but I'm guessing just the mere threat would make all of these tough guys turn tail and head for the hills.

            "Bob Johnson doesn't have special privileges, because really, why would I entrust that guy with ANYTHING?" - kos, November 9, 2013

            by Bob Johnson on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 11:55:45 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Have to say I agree Bob (0+ / 0-)

              the problem is these idiots are getting away with something here and they'll use that.  These people will take a mile if you give one inch, and we ALL know that here.

              That said, there wouldn't need to be any actual shooting, just bring in the tanks, lower and aim the guns, and watch the crapping begin.  Add in a few helo's making lotsa noise flying overhead, maybe add a few drones for show, and enforce a no-fly zone for media and voila - we'll all see just how tough these nutters REALLY are, now won't we?

              Its all good to threaten someone who isn't armed, and all good to threaten an entire state with your idiocy, but when you get called on that, not so good...

            •  Sure, 99. 9% of them are blowhards, but (0+ / 0-)

              ANY accidental martyrs would be a much huger pain in the ass than a little crowing from banty roosters.

              I'm not saying there couldn't be some ugly copy-cat actions to result from letting them go unchallenged.  There may well be.  But.  I AM saying that insane vendetta and recruiting in the cause of imagined martyrs, would be uglier still.  

              "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

              by lgmcp on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 09:36:39 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  So who exactly is the Jersey Barrier Sniper (9+ / 0-)

    planning to shoot?

    Just anyone in the crowd? The picture from the other angle shows no scope and no tripod for stability.

    Shoot the entire magazine and hope for the best?

  •  They're slavering for another Ruby Ridge (8+ / 0-)

    and will do their best to create it.  There is a huge segment of these crazies who are eager to see federal agents murdered and don't care if some fellow-crazies die in the attempt.  They are delusional enough to WANT a "range war".

    Meanwhile, who thinks the BLM reports to a senator?  

    I suppose I'm glad the feds chose to de-escalate.  I think it was probably the smarter choice in a bad situation. But it rankles, all the same.

    "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

    by lgmcp on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 11:05:42 AM PDT

    •  I think it was quite clever (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      commonmass, lgmcp

      rather than rankling, they got the moral upper hand, and the rest look like clowns, but I'll confess, I don't see much MSM

    •  It is guaranteed to lead to more such situations. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      commonmass

      No, that's not an argument that the Feds should have staged a midnight raid and killed a dozen people.  

      But siege lines were the right move here, with a 48 hour amnesty for anyone who dropped their arms and walked out (absolutely no charges).

      Overheard a Frenchman trying to explain Thomas Freidman to a Brit "He's got shit for brains -- but that's his asset. That's why he appeals to the US bourgeoisie."

      by JesseCW on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 11:18:22 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Hell, they're crazy enough to be happy if their (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      lgmcp

      own wives and daughters die in the attempt - just as long as it's not them.  

      Assholes.

    •  The NRA and gun manufacturers (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      lgmcp, travelerxxx, cybersaur

      Have switched from hunting and target shooting as marketing strategy to fear of gov't take over and resisting the govt. Hence the excuse to make and sell more so called assault weapons.

      It's really a cynical ploy on their part to increase sales and memberships, but they have created some true believers that thing we need something like this to set the spark.

  •  Imagine the bloodbath if Occupy had used this (5+ / 0-)

    tactic.  Why are these right-wingers allowed to do this?  Are we that scared of them?  

    I'm sorry but I find it hard to take a positive lesson from this.  

    For some the message will really be "Go armed, and you won't get maced."

    The tent got so big it now stands for nothing.

    by Beelzebud on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 11:06:01 AM PDT

  •  I am embarrassed by my government for backing off (6+ / 0-)

    All this does is give these idiots the idea that they are "winning" and soon this will be standing operating procedure for all those militias out looking for situations like this to get involved with.  Now with Hannity as the lead cheerleader, don't you think he has his staffers going thru the papers looking for any other nut job like this to show that the federal government is "out of control"?

    What do YOU think would happen if this was a group of African-Americans or Hispanics lined up on overpasses with AR-15's aimed at law enforcement?  Be honest.  Do you think the cops would have returned the cattle, shook hands and walked away?

  •  Hannity (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    commonmass, cybersaur

    What do you expect form an abject idiot? He wouldn't know the truth if it hit him in the jewels.....

  •  It would push the conservative agenda forward! (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    commonmass, artmartin, travelerxxx

    And just in time for the Nov mid-terms! This is Hannity's nivarna!

  •  I hope BLM is in court already (5+ / 0-)

    Sending in the National Guard would be a little overkill and most likely counterproductive.

    However, the BLM should be in court getting a judgement on Bundy for fees and penalties.  Maybe to the extent of freezing his bank account, and asset forfiture.

    It seems like there should be plenty of legal, administrative ways to penalize this type of crime short of sending in the military.

    No need to escalate to violence against a civil fees scofflaw.

    The guy owes fees and penalties and there are laws to deal with that.  Enforce them in the banks and businesses.

    As far as the militia kooks, there needs to be a more vigorous investigation of that whole situation -  Rachel Maddow did a good segment yesterday.

    •  My understanding is they already have a court orde (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Ahianne

      The problem is enforcing it.

      And these folks often don't have anything to do with banks and all (banks are controlled by Jews and the UN, didn't you know that?), so it's difficult to get access to their money that way.

      •  Other possibilities (0+ / 0-)

        An economic sanction against individual is one, albeit extreme, possibility.
        Basically, instead of targeting, the government target his business connection. Depending on the severity of the sanction, the government can require that any business that deals with him to cease dealing with him or face penalties themselves (lost of business license, heavy fines, getting sanctioned themselves, etc).

      •  well, he can't be doing all cash transactions (0+ / 0-)

        after all he is in the beef business.  The court order needs to address his fines and penalties - rounding up the cattle seems a last resort.

        if the fines are high enough - what about forfiture?  Stopping or getting in the way of the buyers of his cattle - garnishing proceeds, etc.?

        I am just figuring there are plenty of other ways to deal with him.

        Maybe wait until he goes into town and arrest him?

        or - as suggested - send in the military and round up all the wannabe revolutionaries.

        WWPD?   (What would Putin do?)

  •  What about very high fences between this (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mikejay611, commonmass

    alleged person's land and the federal land?  They always want that to keep out illegal immigrants, how about keeping out illegal cattle?

    Armed! I feel like a savage! Barbarella

    by richardvjohnson on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 11:10:04 AM PDT

  •  What's with the woman (3+ / 0-)

    In the fore right of the picture in the white shorts? Idiot!

    Blessed are the hearts that can bend; for they can never be broken Albert Camus

    by vcmvo2 on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 11:11:08 AM PDT

  •  silence on this (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    foreignthinker, PsychoSavannah

    matter is the correct way to proceed which is not good news for the law breaker taker rancher who is stealing from the tax payers across america.

    its interesting how those that hate the govt out west take pride in sucking off of the govt teat every chance they get.

    •  Uh, what? (0+ / 0-)

      Only people in the west take pride in sucking off the govt?  REALLY?  How about your average Bagger, living off his/her Social Security and Medicare while telling the rest of us to take a voucher?  What about all those farm subsidies down in Florida and a few other Bagistan states, you know the ones, where they use Biblical references to denigrate the poor and take away their food but at the same time take their own checks from gubmint?

      This is hardly a only West Coast phenomenon.

  •  I hate to ask an obvious question. How is it that (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sneakers563

    Mr. Bundy has paid no taxes for 20 years and why is this now such a red hot issue.   This is not worth blood shed.  Let the parties get together and come to an agreement.
    More will be revealed.

    •  One of the reasons it's an issue now (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      foreignthinker, PsychoSavannah, HCKAD

      is that the land in question is closed to all grazing because it is habitat for the endangered desert tortoise. The Center for Biological Diversity has been on the BLM for a few years now to do something about Bundy's cattle, and they have recently threatened to sue the BLM unless it rectified the situation.

      To believe that markets determine value is to believe that milk comes from plastic bottles. Bromley (1985)

      by sneakers563 on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 11:25:55 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Let's hope someone's recording him (0+ / 0-)

    And he forgets that detail. Because if this sitch ever did blow up, it would be pretty clear that a whole pack of talking heads have been fanning this fire and are in many ways responsible for it.

    And so they should go to trial and then hopefully prison for inciting insurrection.

    Hell, treason means we can line 'em up against a wall and shoot 'em.

    Let's do that one first!

    THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN CONTROL PEOPLE IS TO LIE TO THEM. You can write that down in your book in great big letters. -- L. Ron Hubbard Technique 88

    by xenubarb on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 11:23:31 AM PDT

  •  One of the signs they (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    PsychoSavannah

    were waving around last week referred to "marshal law".

  •  "It depends" (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ChuckChuckerson, HCKAD

    The answer to the question "What does the United States do when one of its citizens is breaking the law" is unfortunately "it depends."

    It depends whether you have money.

    It depends on whether you are connected.

    It depends on what the color of your skin is.

    It depends on whether you are armed, and a little nuts, or not.

    It depends on whether arresting you and/or brutalizing you is otherwise easy or hard.

    This is just another "it depends."

  •  Time for the Capone Income Tax evasion charge. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    showthetaxreturn

    So, Bundy doesn't "recognize" the Federal government, eh? What do you want to bet that he hasn't been recognizing Federal income taxes, either?

    He won't have much support from any but the most insane "sovereignty" types if folks find that they have to pay income taxes, but somehow Bundy does not.

    Give it a couple of months. After all, the militia boys will eventually have to go home to cash their disability and/or Social Security checks. Indict him, wait for him to go into town, and arrest him then.

  •  Lunatic Right Was Over The Top With Schaivo (0+ / 0-)

    Mainstream of the population looked at the issue and sided with sanity. One of the issues in 2005 that led the way to big midterm wins in 2006. Think the mainstream of voters will look at this and think the lunatic right is over the top nuts again. This time even more so. We have many crazy uncles at the family gathering that is the US population.

  •  Got to admit, I'm flummoxed. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    schumann

    I know some gun fetishists, so I'm among the first to laugh when they talk about defending themselves from our 21st-century military with some assault rifles and some "tactical wear" they got from a shop in a strip mall. But here, because they're white good 'ol boys who are in touch with the local authorities, they can aim guns at federal agents and get their way (at least for now).

    I want this to be resolved without bloodshed, but if the gun nuts find out that their fantasy of standing up to Obama's ebil guvmint has a chance of working, more will try.

    But I'm not sure... Am I making the "Let's make an example of them!" argument? I'm honestly not sure what should be done here.

    •  There are much less lethal way to resolve this. (0+ / 0-)

      They're, after all, in the United States, doing business in United States with companies in United States.
      A harsh measure would be to put an economic sanction on them. In short, instead of targeting them directly, it targets the people that indirectly enable them to do this by making it a crime to deal with them economically with threats of license lose, heavy fees, and/or jail time.

  •  He will need to be brought in at some point. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sven Boogie, cybersaur

    Or his assets seized. You can't have a demonstration of legal impotence or it will lead to more imitators and probably to confrontations where lived WILL be lost on both sides.

    "Emancipate yourself from mental slavery. None but us can free our minds." - Bob Marley

    by nightsweat on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 11:52:00 AM PDT

  •  If these guys weren't white... (5+ / 0-)

    ...they'd be called a gang.

  •  They're not Freemen... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    travelerxxx, Sven Boogie, cybersaur

    ...they're nothing but thieves, common thieves mooching off the public teat.

    You can't spell "Dianne Feinstein" without "NSA".

    by varro on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 11:56:31 AM PDT

  •  Freedom! (0+ / 0-)

    So the guy now has his freedom as long as he doesn't leave the ranch and none of his new friends find other things to do. Seems fair.
    I wish I lived close enough to buzz the ranch with some model planes.

    Well, I’ve been to one world fair, a picnic and a rodeo and that’s the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.  -Major T. J. "King" Kong

  •  To all those upset there wasn't a confrontation (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Ahianne

    I understand wanting Bundy and his teahaddist militia supporters to be held accountable for their actions. I understand not wanting to set the example that a group of idiots with guns can cause the government to simply walk away.

    I'd just ask that you consider a few practical things against those concerns. How many armed, trained agents were on site at the time, versus how many armed nuts who were intermingled with unarmed women and children? What do you actually think the result would have been if the agents on site at the time simply took all of them head on and demanded surrender? Are you aware that the supporters were planning on putting women and children out front, to be shot first should violence break out, for maximum public sympathy?

    Yes, Bundy and his armed nutcase buddies should be held accountable. A gun battle between BLM/etc agents and the assembled crazies would have been a horrible way to accomplish this.

  •  Martyrdom (0+ / 0-)

    Has the exsheriffs' wife who was offered up for martyrdom been interviewed yet?  Would have loved to have been a fly on their wall last night to see what she thought about herself and her children being offered up for the cause.

    •  Oh, she was probably all over the "cause" (0+ / 0-)

      as they all are.  And she most likely sees nothing wrong with being put in front of her man as a shield.  She's brainwashed, there IS no logical thought there, and she doesn't think her hubby WILL lose.  

      These are nutters for a reason - they don't need to think they just act and do what they are told to do.  Never mind the consequences of their actions, they could care less until after - and then if the consequences go bad for them and theirs, why that's Obama's fault, don't you know and they will indeed scream and cry then.  Like I used to say to my niece and nephew - you only cry when you get caught, don't you?

    •  If she's stupid enough to (0+ / 0-)

      be married to this idiot she's probably stupid enough to be all for it.

      ~War is Peace~Freedom is Slavery~Ignorance is Strength~ George Orwell "1984"

      by Kristina40 on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 03:08:57 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  1. "Militia" sign update: (0+ / 0-)

    MILITA SIGHN IN -- MORANS WELCOME.

    One assumes Bundy (where have I heard that name before?) family members shut better than they spel...

    2. Could Hannity be charged with inciting a riot?  Worth checking out...

    This story has given numerous NRA members hard-ons... not too sure about the wives, though...

    How children dance to the unlived lives of their parents. Rilke

    by ceebee7 on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 02:11:51 PM PDT

  •  This asshole pointing a rifle at the crowd (0+ / 0-)

    Really?

    This is what we let gun nuts do now?

    Take his gun and tell him he an have it back when he learns to not point it at innocent people.

  •  This guy is a selfish prick (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    smileycreek

    who has been mooching off federal land for decades (let's not even get into the irony of that for the right-wingers). However, these militia nutjobs want nothing more than to provoke a confrontation with federal authorities. The right-wing bubble is ravenous for bloodshed here.

    And you know what?? Fuck 'em....let Bundy think he's running his own private cattle country in the middle of Nevada, and work on seizing his assets or arresting him. Everyone outside the conservative message machine who hears this guy speak for 20 seconds is going to know he is a complete lunatic, this story has not play outside Free Republic, talk radio, and FOX News. No one is rallying to this guys cause except the black helicopter crowd. Not engaging is not only the only moral thing to do (not one BLM employee should die because of these assholes) but also the smart move politically. Deprive these bastards of what they want the most, which is attention.

    •  I was glad when the Feds backed down. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Ahianne

      That was a wise decision. I just thought to myself, Al Capone. This guy's not going anywhere and they'll catch up with him for fraud when he doesn't have a crowd of wingnuts at the ready.

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      ~~ from the DK Partners & Mentors Team.

      The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.
      ---> Bertrand Russell

      by smileycreek on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 05:18:27 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Good old Richard Mack (0+ / 0-)

    Still causing trouble.

  •  In this instance, the BLM did the right thing. (0+ / 0-)

    From the way things sound, it appears that other ranchers who pay their legitimate taxes will take care of Bundy (Why are some of the most egregious offenders always named Bundy?) through that particular brotherhood. Meanwhile, why hasn't Hannity put his money where his mouth is? It's been weeks since he publicly announced that he was leaving NYC because the political climate there had become unbearable for him. What's more, somewhere between ten and twenty THOUSAND good-hearted, selfless New Yorkers eagerly offered to give their valuable time and help him pack!! But he's still there, even after receiving a personal invite from the illustrious Rick Scott to go on down to FL and join him! Which way's it gonna be, Sean?!

  •  IDIOT (0+ / 0-)

    If everyone else has to pay then so should he, if he refuses to pay for his cattle grazing on land owned by the people, then he is cheating all the taxpayers out of money he owes!!! He should lose those cattle, and lose his freedom, especially if he is stupid enough to threaten violence against federal agents. Lock his a%^ up where he belongs in prison. Then he will get a nice taste of what the real world is like, and not his little fantasy world!!! Karma karma karma come unto him!

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