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Absolutely disgusting leaflet has surfaced in Donetsk, Ukraine.

The validity has been confirmed by a local reporter according to my second link.

 

A leaflet distributed in Donetsk, Ukraine calling for all Jews over 16 years old to register as Jews marred the Jewish community's Passover festivities Monday (Passover eve), replacing them with feelings of concern.

The leaflet demanded the city's Jews supply a detailed list of all the property they own, or else have their citizenship revoked, face deportion and see their assets confiscated.

https://news.pn/...

«To all citizens of the Jewish nationality 16 years, living in the territory of the sovereign Donetsk republic are more senior, it is necessary to be till May 3, 2014 to the acting commissioner for nationalities to the building Donetsk YEAH, an office 514, for registration. The cost of registration makes 50 US dollars.

At itself to have money in the sum of 50 US dollars for payment for registration, passports for a mark about religion, documents on family structure, and also documents of title on all real estate belonging to you and vehicles».

In case of evasion from registration the guilty will be deprived of nationality and sent forcibly out of borders of the republic with confiscation of property» , - it is specified in a leaflet.

According to the blogger «Radio Freedom» Mark Krutov, similar leaflets appeared and, actually, in Donetsk. Their existence was confirmed by the Donetsk journalist Alexey Matsuka.


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Comment Preferences

  •  Kiev disinformation (9+ / 0-)

    The only source for this so far is Ukrainian.

    "When dealing with terrorism, civil and human rights are not applicable." Egyptian military spokesman.

    by Paleo on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 05:02:14 PM PDT

  •  Pretty crude propaganda attempt (7+ / 0-)

    They should of stuck with "pro-Russian separatists demand tribute and vodka."

    •  You would say that, wouldn't you? (11+ / 0-)

      I guess the open letter from Ukrainian Jewish leaders to Putin, in which they basically called him a liar, also was "crude propaganda" in your eyes?

      "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

      by Lawrence on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 05:19:42 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Pretty crude propaganda by the Russians. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      whizdom, Richard Villiers, doroma, OIL GUY

      Hmmm, can we think of anyone involved in the Ukraine conflict who is attempting to frame their political opponents as Nazis?

      Art is the handmaid of human good.

      by joe from Lowell on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 05:51:57 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  So you're saying they're tying to frame their own (7+ / 0-)

        supporters?

        "When dealing with terrorism, civil and human rights are not applicable." Egyptian military spokesman.

        by Paleo on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 06:00:38 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  It's a double false flag operation to confuse and (6+ / 0-)

          disorient the masses.

          •  Weirdly, that may be true... (4+ / 0-)

            ...I think it's more likely the result of zealous idiots on the other side, though. One thing remains true, though, which is that Ukraine ought not be invaded and split, overtly or covertly, by Russia.

            it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses

            by Addison on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 06:28:12 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I don't think it will as long as the south-east (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              JesseCW, truong son traveler

              gets a say in their governance.

              It appears there is some movement by Turchynov

              http://online.wsj.com/...

              A day after threatening to mobilize the military if the separatists didn't stand down, Ukraine's acting president instead offered an apparent olive branch Monday, saying he wasn't opposed to a national referendum on granting greater autonomy to the regions.

              •  I truly dislike Russia's mandate... (0+ / 0-)

                ...of a Constitutional change in Ukraine, seemingly as a protection against invasion. It's kind of a thug move. That said, federalism seems to be Ukraine's natural mode anyway, and a way to diffuse tensions naturally instead of through revolution. So if Russia is being honest about it, instead of just masking its true intentions, fine. I have my doubts, given their actions.

                it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses

                by Addison on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 06:44:56 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Kiev doesn't want to do it because it would (9+ / 0-)

                  decrease their power in the region as well as nationally.

                  Putin can't hold a candle to the US when it comes to thug moves to force constitutional change in foreign countries.

                  Right now there are dozens of US/EU bean counters and career diplomats in Kiev reworking Ukraine's constitution and economic policies to get the country prepared for IMF financial aid and integration with the EU. There's also a pack of NATO brass reworking the Ukraine security services.

                  •  Don't pull whataboutism, please... (4+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Timaeus, chmood, OIL GUY, Noisy Democrat

                    ...Russia has essentially demanded federalism in Ukraine, and repeatedly indicated their "involvement" inside Ukraine if federalism doesn't happened and Russians are thus "threatened".

                    Is the USA also guilty of various crimes? Sure. Those crimes are a constant topic of conversation on this site and many others. Free speech in action, and it's great!

                    This particular thread is about Ukraine (albeit about likely propaganda), and Russia is the prime destablizing and negative mover there, at the moment. When you shift attention, you only focus attention on why you're shifting it.

                    it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses

                    by Addison on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 07:08:58 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  The US was the prime destabilizer that got the (7+ / 0-)

                      Ukraine to where it is today.

                      Note that the following article was linked from http://www.kyivpost.com/... so it is not anathema to Kiev.

                      Putin's Plan "F" for Ukraine

                      Pro-Russian activists in eastern Ukraine are demanding federalization. Moscow argues the move would unite Ukraine. The government in Kyiv fears the opposite would be the case.
                      ...
                      The demands include fundamental constitutional reforms, the likes of which Ukraine hasn't seen in recent history. Article 2 of the document defines Ukraine as a centralized state. The former Soviet state is subdivided into 24 regions, the oblasts, and the Autonomous Republic Crimea, which has in the meantime been annexed by Russia. The capital Kyiv is the center of power, and the president, the government and parliament decide on everything from taxes to language policies.
                      ...
                       Avert civil war

                      That is precisely what the armed activists aim to change. The demands are not new, but these past years, no one took them seriously. In late January, when violence began to overshadow the opposition's peaceful protests, the ruling Party of Regions brought up the idea of a federal Ukraine once again. The country is on the brink of a civil war, Ukraine's online newspaper Ukrainska Pravda quoted Vadim Kolesnichenko as saying. Russian-speaking Ukrainians in the east and south of the country viewed the protests on Kyiv's Maidan as a danger to their ethnic group, the lawmaker said. Federalization would help prevent the country from falling apart, Kolesnichenko said.
                      ...

                      •  Russian calls for Federalism are a mask... (6+ / 0-)

                        ...for their already-seen efforts to have secession of eastern provinces of Ukraine, to support pro-Russian paramilitary groups invading airbases and government offices, to have Moscow coordination of separatist activity, and to publicize Russian citizens raising Russian flags over various Ukrainian buildings. Federalism is likely a good idea, we don't have to all pretend, together in delusion, that it's actually what Putin is after. There have been too many Russian flags and separatist action to pretend a united Ukraine is something Russia wants. We've all seen the early days of this issue, and Russia was a bit more careless in those early days, and we saw their end game. It's not a federalized Ukraine.

                        it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses

                        by Addison on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 07:45:09 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Uprated for truth. (3+ / 1-)
                          Recommended by:
                          Lib Dem FoP, Dr Swig Mcjigger, OIL GUY
                          Hidden by:
                          kdnla

                          Which is not accepted by the amazingly large group of pro-Putin apologists on this supposedly "reality" site.

                          I'm REALLY disgusted at all the assholes here apologizing for Putin's naked aggression against Ukraine!

                          I think that's all based on hatred for the United States and hatred against Obama.  

                          I'm VERY critical of my home country and VERY critical of the president--I've called him a war criminal for the drone war, and I stand on that.

                          But in this situation I'm AGAINST PUTIN and FOR THE UKRAINIAN PEOPLE!

                        •  It's wider than that (3+ / 0-)

                          What Putin wants is effectively a "Danegelt" in eastern Ukraine consisting of those parts of the "Ukrainian Federation" he can manipulate. The overall effect would be to totally destabilize Ukraine and completely gridlock a federal government.

                          It's in those very oblasts and in the waters off Crimea that the majority of Ukraine's known reserves of oil, gas and coal are located. Entirely coincidental that the Russian economy is dependent on oil and gas income to pay the meagre old age pensions that the "Babuskas" have to struggle to starve on and the oligarchs to export the country's wealth with.

                          "Come to Sochi, visit the gay clubs and play with the bears" - NOT a Russian advertising slogan.

                          by Lib Dem FoP on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 08:13:21 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Whoops (2+ / 0-)

                            Sorry, got my early medieval terms confused. I should of course have written "Danelaw" rather than "Danegelt".

                            I must have been thinking of the economic pressures that Russia is putting on Ukraine and the likelihood that Putin is after the region's oil and gas production or at least complete control over it.

                            "Come to Sochi, visit the gay clubs and play with the bears" - NOT a Russian advertising slogan.

                            by Lib Dem FoP on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 09:07:56 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                        •  You've spent some time in eastern Ukraine? (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          truong son traveler
                        •  I simply do not understand a bunch of (2+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          cybrestrike, Johnny Q

                          Americans sitting around insisting that ethnic Russians who have lived in the same place for 350 years should not get to have any say about what country they're part of.

                          But think I'm the guy who think every county in the North of Ireland should get to vote on its own status individually, and everyone should shut the fuck up and abide by the democratic result.

                          Overheard a Frenchman trying to explain Thomas Freidman to a Brit "He's got shit for brains -- but that's his asset. That's why he appeals to the US bourgeoisie."

                          by JesseCW on Thu Apr 17, 2014 at 12:49:36 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

          •  Earlier Kyiv was saying the defected army units (4+ / 0-)

            were actually just conducting a super secret special infiltraion op to 'trick' the locals by placing Russian flags on their APC's.

            It was an official press release! They can't keep up!

        •  Nvm; I read the story wrong. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          AaronInSanDiego

          I didn't get that the alleged signatories were from the Russian-backed secessionist regime the first time I read it.

          Art is the handmaid of human good.

          by joe from Lowell on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 06:06:26 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Factions (0+ / 0-)

            There are certainly different voices in the Kyiv government putting their own spin on events. That's why I distrust any report or link that is along the lines "x is reporting that Y is saying that z thinks" which is one of the formulas members here are all too well aware is the way in which lies are given substance.

            There are a few news organizations that are generally considered reliable, notably the BBC (with the World Service version lacking the sometimes Anglocentric coverage in its domestic only bulletins) and Al Jazeera which is pretty impartial even if its coverage of the Persian Gulf area has to be treated with caution at times. The satellite channel Euronews is a good tool as it carries reports from national broadcasters throughout the continent which gives its own balance - it also broadcasts the "raw" footage without commentary.

            At the other end of the spectrum we have the North Korean eccentricities, CCTV and RT. (To be fair to the Chinese broadcaster, that is possibly not the correct order).

            "Come to Sochi, visit the gay clubs and play with the bears" - NOT a Russian advertising slogan.

            by Lib Dem FoP on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 08:36:09 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

              •  Proof? (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                joe from Lowell

                You really do not know about the situation do you? I will remind you that the phrase "dodgy dossier" to describe the Blair governments document to support the war originated by a reporter on the flagship BBC Radio 4's Today programme. Perhaps if you stopped trawling the Russian media for anti-American titbits you might actually watch RT.

                BTW, is it a peculiarly American trait to not understand English irregular verbs? The past tense of "lead" is "led".  Maybe our tame lexicographer can do a diary on that one weekend.

                "Come to Sochi, visit the gay clubs and play with the bears" - NOT a Russian advertising slogan.

                by Lib Dem FoP on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 09:46:55 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I'm not going to go back and give you a transcript (4+ / 0-)

                  of the daily news reports on BBC. I'm sure you've read Ian Sinclair and John Pilger as well as the studies by the Cardiff University’s School of Journalism and Media Tenor.

                  I will remind you that the phrase "dodgy dossier" to describe the Blair governments document to support the war originated by a reporter on the flagship BBC Radio 4's Today programme.
                  The term originally came from Spiked.
                  http://www.spiked-online.com/...
                  Blair's dodgy dossier
                  24 September 2002
                  Britain's evidence of an Iraqi threat is as weak as the opposition to war.
                  by Brendan O'Neill
                  ...
                  The dossier is full of speculation, rhetoric and rehashed allegations
                  Yet by the time the Bush administration published A Decade of Deception and Defiance (its allegations against Saddam) on 12 September 2002, all claims of a bin Laden/Saddam love-in had disappeared - and there was just one page on Iraq's alleged support for terrorism (8). It seems that some claims are just too insubstantial, even for Bush's and Blair's dodgy dossiers.
                  ...
                  BTW, is it a peculiarly American trait to not understand English irregular verbs? The past tense of "lead" is "led".  Maybe our tame lexicographer can do a diary on that one weekend.
                  Style over substance.....

                  I could take you to task for using "Tartar", as in tartar sauce or tartar buildup, instead of the common Tatar to describe the people.

                  •  Late night (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    joe from Lowell, sviscusi

                    The phrase I was misremembering was in fact the statement that the Government has "sexed up" the dossier in relation to Dr Kelly's assessment of it. My excuse is late the lateness of the hour (you will see that I also miswrote Danegelt for Danelaw)

                    As for your laughable claim that the BBC supported the Blair government: from Wiki

                    The controversy over the Iraq Dossier was mentioned frequently in the government's conflict with the BBC over the claim in the September Dossier that Iraq could deploy biological weapons within 45 minutes of an order to do so, and the controversy surrounding the death of Dr. David Kelly. Andrew Gilligan, the BBC journalist who wrote a report which claimed that the September Dossier had been deliberately exaggerated, stated before the Hutton Inquiry that recalling the February Dossier had led him to file his report based on his interview with Dr. Kelly without seeking confirmation from other sources. Whether or not the September Dossier was inconsistent with the original intelligence, it was altered in ways that made it inconsistent with itself
                    In fact the BBC's exposing of Blair's lies led directly to a conflict between his government and the BBC which was about the most sustained attack on the Corporation since the General Strike. The focus of it was the setting up of the Hutton Inquiry in advance of the renewal of the BBC's Charter.
                    The government was today (September 10, 3003) warned not to use the BBC's forthcoming charter renewal process as an opportunity to "pay back" the corporation in the wake of the Iraq dossier row or as "pay-off time" for its commercial rivals.

                    Broadcasting minister Lord McIntosh was today forced to again insist that its review of the BBC's royal charter, due for renewal in 2006, would not be affected by the ongoing Hutton inquiry after the row blew up again in the House of Lords today.

                    "Tartar" is one of two alternative spellings given by the definitive OED. The sauce is spelt "Tartare" which rather blows your jibe out of the water.

                    "Come to Sochi, visit the gay clubs and play with the bears" - NOT a Russian advertising slogan.

                    by Lib Dem FoP on Thu Apr 17, 2014 at 04:09:31 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  The problems with the BBC stem from it's (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Johnny Q

                      management NOT it's reporters. I'm not saying it never reported on the Iraq war. What it did was under-report and minimize. It called the Iraq War a "Peacekeeping Mission" under the rubric that this was the UK government's official name.

                      The BBC And Iraq: Myth and Reality
                      by John Pilger
                      December 5, 2003
                      Greg Dyke, the BBC’s director general, has attacked American television reporting of Iraq. "For any news organisation to act as a cheerleader for government is to undermine your credibility," he said. "They should be... balancing their coverage, not banging the drum for one side or the other." He said research showed that, of 840 experts interviewed on American news programmes during the invasion of Iraq, only four opposed the war. "If that were true in Britain, the BBC would have failed in its duty."

                      Did Dyke say all this with a straight face? Let’s look at what research shows about the BBC’s reporting of Iraq. Media Tenor, the non-partisan, Bonn-based media research organisation, has examined the Iraq war reporting of some of the world’s leading broadcasters, including the US networks and the BBC. It concentrated on the coverage of opposition to the war.

                      "Tartar" is one of two alternative spellings given by the definitive OED.
                      That form has mainly been used by some in the west to describe the Tatars as a hoard of Mongols raping and pillaging.

                      The people call themselves Tatars so you should also.

                      http://attasf.org/
                      http://crimeantatarlibrary.blogspot.ca/
                      http://www.iccrimea.org/...

                      The sauce is spelt "Tartare" which rather blows your jibe out of the water.
                      Reread your definition of "tartare"
                      adjective
                      [postpositive]

                          (Of fish) served raw, typically seasoned and shaped into small cakes: light dishes such as salmon tartare See also steak tartare.

                      •  Give up (0+ / 0-)

                        I intend to have no further truck with somebody who is so uncritical (I will not call you an apologist as some have for fear of hurting your feelings again) of somebody who claims "THE RIGHT" to invade another country at will as Putin did today.

                        "Come to Sochi, visit the gay clubs and play with the bears" - NOT a Russian advertising slogan.

                        by Lib Dem FoP on Thu Apr 17, 2014 at 09:08:42 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  I have never claimed that. All I do is report the (0+ / 0-)

                          actualities of what is occurring.

                          The hypocrisy of the Obama administration has been breathtaking when warning Putin to stop interfering in the Ukraine. There is no other country in the world that can even come close to the US when it comes to intervening in the politics and economies of sovereign nations. The NED has funded 65 Ukrainian NGO's just last year for amounts ranging from $20,000 to $271,000. The amount since 1991 is $50,000,000,000. That amounts to 500 4'x4'x4' pallets stacked with $100 bills. As you know, money buys influence. In this case, in a twist of fate, it effectively bought Crimea for Russia.

                          The Russians have vested interests in the Ukraine, historical, commercial and ethnic, some of which go back centuries.

                          The only interest the US has is expanding NATO into the region on the backbone of the EU. The Ukraine is their last substantial chess piece in the European theater. We are now seeing them expanding into Africa as well as increased interest in the Pacific region.

                          NATO is the police force for the protection and expansion of free market capitalism. It was conceived for this purpose and remains so today. The problem with unfettered capitalism is that it requires geometric expansion for it's viability.

                          If a corporation does not increase it's bottom line or a country it's GDP, then they are classed as failures. It's all powered with cheap energy. Carbon sourced energy would be cheap at triple the current price if you take into consideration the externalities.

                          Have a good day.

        •  ROFL (0+ / 0-)

          Confuzzled to the max!

    •  I dunno why it's even necessary... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      happymisanthropy, marsanges

      ...Russia isn't being coy about what it's doing in Eastern Ukraine. It's denying it officially, but not being coy aside from that. It honored its heroes in Crimea that didn't exist, and it is invading to protect Russians but also not invading -- makes sense on a certain level of manufactured and superimposed reality. Base propaganda isn't necessary at all.

      it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses

      by Addison on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 06:26:18 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Blatent (0+ / 0-)

        Sky News today has footage of one heavily armed man refusing to answering someone asking where he was from but his colleague chipping in with "Hi to all my relatives in Moscow"

        "Come to Sochi, visit the gay clubs and play with the bears" - NOT a Russian advertising slogan.

        by Lib Dem FoP on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 10:02:46 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Not too long after the fall of Paris (11+ / 0-)

    The Vichy fascists issued an edict like this.

    "Corporations exist not for themselves, but for the people." Ida Tarbell 1908.

    by Navy Vet Terp on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 05:06:11 PM PDT

  •  It's probably not propaganda. (11+ / 0-)

    The self-proclaimed leader of the "People's Republic of Donetsk", Gubarev, was(is?) a member of a Russian fascist/Neo-Nazi organization.

    "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

    by Lawrence on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 05:09:18 PM PDT

    •  P.S. I was going to post a diary about this (13+ / 0-)

      earlier, but was waiting on confirmation.

      More on the topic:

      Donetsk Pro-Russians Order Jews to 'Register or be Deported' for Supporting Kiev Rule

      By Gianluca Mezzofiore

      April 16, 2014 15:17 GMT

      snip

      It orders all Jews aged over 16 years old to register before the government building, which has been occupied by pro-Russian insurgents in defiance of Kiev rule.

      Jews would also have to pay a registration fee of $50 (£30) before 3 May and list all real estate and vehicles owned.

      http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/...

      It seems that the open letter that Jewish leaders of Ukraine wrote to Putin has angered some pro-Russians in the east...

      THU MAR 06, 2014 AT 05:27 PM PST
      Ukrainian Jewish Leaders to Putin: You Lie, Leave Ukraine in Peace.
      http://www.dailykos.com/...

      "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

      by Lawrence on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 05:16:13 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  .. Am I the only one that suddenly feels WW3 (5+ / 0-)

        Coming? Russia needs to back the hell off of Ukraine and quickly, but it's looking increasingly likely that the only thing that will stop them is a show of force, or at the very least U.S. and Nato guards posted on Ukraine's border. Sure, catching individuals along borders is rather difficult and costly, but deterring an entire army would ironically probably cost less.

        •  I've been getting the creeps since the neoUSSR (7+ / 0-)

          sent unmarked military into Crimea.

          One of the problems with the US using nukes in WWII is that the rest of the world knows we will use them.  

          So if there every is a serious military confrontation with a power that really can threaten the US or Europe, would that enemy wait and hold their nukes, or assume the US will unleash their's so why should that enemy wait?

          Also too let's remember that
          1) Duhbya went and played in Russia's back yard in two different countries that are far more in Russia's sphere of influence than in the US's.

          2) This country can't finance a serious war, largely thanks to Duhbya and his credit card financed wars.

          •  Forget the US. If this guy in Donetsk is serious (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            DEMonrat ankle biter

            and if Russia backs him up, ISRAEL has the nukes to attack Russia with.

            You don't want a paranoid Bibi thinking a second Shoah is coming in Russia.

            "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." --M. L. King "You can't fix stupid" --Ron White -6.00, -5.18

            by zenbassoon on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 06:44:27 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Bibi and Putin seem to be getting along just fine (4+ / 0-)
              Putin to Netanyahu: Ukraine to blame for escalation
              Apr. 16, 2014
              ...
              Russian President Vladimir Putin spoke by phone with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Tuesday night, to discuss a number of issues including Iran and the escalating crisis in Ukraine.
              ...
              During the conversation, which was initiated by Netanyahu, the leaders discussed "current issues in bilateral cooperation and on the international agenda, including progress in talks on the Iranian nuclear program," Putin's website reported.

              At Netanyahu's request, Putin provided an assessment of events in Ukraine. "The President of Russia pointed out that the sharp escalation of the crisis is the result of Kiev’s irresponsible policy, which disregards the lawful rights and interests of the country’s Russian-speaking citizens. He stressed the inadmissibility of the current regime’s use of armed forces to suppress public protests in southeastern Ukraine."

              The leaders agreed to continue regular exchanges of opinion on issues of mutual interest.
              ...

              •  So (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                DEMonrat ankle biter

                Putin spun his story to Bibi. What a surprise! What precisely do you purport to prove with that particular quote?

                Read it carefully and note in the middle "Putin's website reported". So Haaretz are merely reproducing Putin's version of the meeting almost verbatim and "topping and tailing" the quotes to provide a story.

                "Come to Sochi, visit the gay clubs and play with the bears" - NOT a Russian advertising slogan.

                by Lib Dem FoP on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 08:53:20 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  It's a response to zenbassoon's paranoia (0+ / 0-)

                  Reports from all the Israeli news sources do not mention Putin in a negative way. They arrange from neutral to affirmative.

                  Isi Leibler: "Thirty years ago, I would never have visualized myself supporting closer relations between Israel and Russia."

                  So Haaretz are merely reproducing Putin's version of the meeting almost verbatim and "topping and tailing" the quotes to provide a story.
                  Doesn't that tell you something?
                  •  Of course not (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Penny GC

                    Israel has a large number of Russian immigrants whose "welfare" no doubt Putin has expressed concerns about.

                    Zenbassoon may have been a bit hyperbolic but does not deserve the ad hominem attack on him as paranoid.

                    "Come to Sochi, visit the gay clubs and play with the bears" - NOT a Russian advertising slogan.

                    by Lib Dem FoP on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 10:06:32 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Haaretz has amplified Putin's message (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      cybrestrike

                      "Ukraine to blame for escalation"

                      as did some other Israeli news outlets.

                      http://www.ynetnews.com/...
                      Netanyahu discusses mutual interests with Russia's Putin

                      Putin tells Netanyahu that Kiev regime is to blame for escalations in eastern Ukraine; both agree to cooperation on issues of mutual interest.

                      http://www.jpost.com/...
                      Netanyahu calls Putin, takes neutral stance on Ukraine

                      According to the Kremlin statement, Putin provided an assessment of the processes occurring in Ukraine, and “pointed out that the sharp escalation of the crisis is the result of Kiev’s irresponsible policy, which disregards the lawful rights and interests of the country’s Russian-speaking citizens. He stressed the inadmissibility of the current regime’s use of armed forces to suppress public protests in southeastern Ukraine.”

                      This one's really interesting:
                      http://themadjewess.com/...
                      Netanyahu & Putin In Agreement Over Ukraine

                      Wow, did Netenyahu finally wake up? Don’t know..

                      Zenbassoon may have been a bit hyperbolic but does not deserve the ad hominem attack on him as paranoid.
                      He posted twice that if there were to be any ethnic cleansing by pro-Russian people, Bibi would nuke Russia. Once is hyperbolic....
        •  Yeah. A 'show of force' will definitely work. (4+ / 0-)

          We're way more ready for a protacted war in which we'll lose tens of thousands than Russia is.

          Don't try to bluff people more willing to bear the cost of the fight than you are.

          Overheard a Frenchman trying to explain Thomas Freidman to a Brit "He's got shit for brains -- but that's his asset. That's why he appeals to the US bourgeoisie."

          by JesseCW on Thu Apr 17, 2014 at 12:53:33 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Cites the same Novisti Danbassa source (6+ / 0-)

        The Kiev sympathetic website.

        "When dealing with terrorism, civil and human rights are not applicable." Egyptian military spokesman.

        by Paleo on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 05:52:20 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Update on your link (7+ / 0-)
        UPDATE: Pushilin has denied the Novosti Donbassa's report and assured reporters that the flyer is not from his organisation.
      •  Why would the person in question (4+ / 0-)

        put his signature on something that obviously would surface in the international media that is blatantly antisemetic?

        Cui bono, geniuses.

        http://www.jta.org/...

        The flyers were official-looking documents that carried what was presented as Pushilin’s signature, but the news site tvrain.ru on Wednesday quoted Pushilin as denying any connection to the flyers, calling them a provocation.

        On Tuesday, the news website novosti.dn.ua reported that the flyers were handed out that day by three unidentified men in balaclava masks carrying a flag of the Russian Federation. According to the report, the men distributed the flyers next to a local synagogue. The website quoted unnamed sources from the local Jewish community as saying that the flyers were an attempt to provoke a conflict and blame the attack on the separatists.

        •  This is the second time tonight (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          OIL GUY

          that somebody has quote jta, the Finnish news organization. This time it is jta quoting "unnamed sources" quoted by another news source (and referring to unsubstantiated claims made by a second).

          I suggest people look at the map and see where Finland is in relation to Russia. The media there is well aware that the country has a "delicate" relationship with Big Brother Russia and this is reflected in their coverage.

          Do they still sell maps at GUM Claudius?

          "Come to Sochi, visit the gay clubs and play with the bears" - NOT a Russian advertising slogan.

          by Lib Dem FoP on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 07:13:08 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  So let's assume that the guy hasn't denied it (4+ / 0-)

            No one would sign their name to this sht, it's pure provocation!

            Really doesn't even need to be 'debunked'. It's too obvious.

            •  Nevertheless (0+ / 0-)

              There are certain sources on the internet which one must consider highly dubious but which are widely quoted on here by some very sensitive pro-Putin posters.

              Two of these "sources" are simply Putin's mouthpieces - RT or "Russia Today", its international TV arm and "Voice of Russia" which is its radio arm and spookily similarly named to the Cold War "Voice of America".

              To this should be added JTA in Finland which looks like it is being used to place stories so that the other two can quote them or vice-versa to give the blatant Russian propaganda a veneer of credibility.

              "Come to Sochi, visit the gay clubs and play with the bears" - NOT a Russian advertising slogan.

              by Lib Dem FoP on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 07:25:33 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  What matters are the facts at hand (5+ / 0-)

                not who is reporting and what slant it's taking.

                Did the guy write it or not? If he didn't, it's fake. Why, in the current climate, woukd he? It would only justify any crackdown on his own affiliates.

                "Nevertheless, "; anything that's not MSM/Kiev regime info is 'dubious'.

                Since very basic logic and facts have become irrelevant to the point of derision on this site, I'll bid you chuckleheads goodnight.

                •  The "facts in hand" (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Lawrence, OIL GUY

                  tend to depend on who is reporting them. Your logic means Fox News is all right,  all the time.

                  I freely admit my bias toward the Maidan Revolution which I think was a total inspiration and shows up the antics of UKIP to be disgraceful bombastery and xenophobia that should be completely alien to politics.  

                  Do I trust the reporting in the Guardian more than Pravda? Yes! Do I trust the reporting in the Independent more than Isvestia? Yes. Do I trust the BBC more than Russia Today? Yes. Are there good reasons for these opinions - most emphatically yes!

                  "Come to Sochi, visit the gay clubs and play with the bears" - NOT a Russian advertising slogan.

                  by Lib Dem FoP on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 09:16:12 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

          •  Again, Cui Bono? (5+ / 0-)

            Certainly not the poor fool whose 'signature' is on the pamphlets.

            Good grief.

    •  Gubarev is a member of the Russian National Unity (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      aliasalias, cybrestrike, Johnny Q

      This neo-Nazi group has been banned by the Russian Supreme Court.

      City Nazi Ban Upheld

      MOSCOW -- Russia's Supreme Court on Friday upheld a lower court ruling that bans a neo-Nazi political group from holding its national congress in the capital.

      Moscow Mayor Yury Luzhkov, who has promised to crack down on extremism, banned Russian National Unity from staging its congress in December and said he wouldn't give it a permit to meet in the future.
       

  •  And until shit likes this stops happening (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    PatriciaVa

    I will forever defend a STRONG Jews first Israel!

    (Before the whiners say something, remember there is only ONE Jewish first country in the world Israel, and MANY for any other Abrahamic religion)

    Never underestimate stupid. Stupid is how reTHUGlicans win!

    by Mannie on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 05:13:18 PM PDT

  •  It's Interesting That They Have Such Confidence (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DEMonrat ankle biter, Johnny Q

    in the US Dollar.

    Since this doesn't seem to be being posted by government guards, it's probably not panic time yet, but if it gets a government or similarly powerful backing, I'd encourage opening the US this time wide and loudly for immigrants.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 05:30:24 PM PDT

  •  And here I though Putin wanted to restore the USSR (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DEMonrat ankle biter

    Turns out I was thinking of the wrong ultra-statist regime.

    "There are no atheists in foxholes" isn't an argument against atheism, it's an argument against foxholes. - James Morrow

    by kirrix on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 05:37:26 PM PDT

  •  Is it real ? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JesseCW

    Is it opportunistic ?
    Is it official policy ?
    Time will tell .

    "please love deeply...openly and genuinely." A. M. H.

    by indycam on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 05:59:03 PM PDT

  •  I think this is just propaganda... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Claudius Bombarnac, cybrestrike

    ...how deep the level goes, I dunno. Attempted anti-Russian, obvious anti-Russian meant to backlash to be pro-Russian, who knows. But this can't be true, right?

    it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses

    by Addison on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 06:01:56 PM PDT

  •  Why list fees in US dollars? (4+ / 0-)

    Are US dollars in routine circulation in Ukraine?

    I can't imagine that a pro-Russian breakaway/secessionist movement would name the US dollar, even as an interim currency.

    That makes this seem fishy to me...

    The word "parent" is supposed to be a VERB, people...

    by wesmorgan1 on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 06:07:44 PM PDT

  •  I'm only going to say this once. It will never be (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mannie, catlover40

    allowed again.

    I have no problem starting WWIII over it. Word to Putin, you better knock this shit off and control your dogs.

    If Russian ethnics rekindle the Nazi Jewish extermination machine again .... I give my permission to US nuclear forces to open fire. First Strike the Russian nuclear forces and prepare to obliterate the cities if any retaliation gets through. Very visibly prep the B2's and move them to undisclosed locations fully armed. Send the Tridents to sea. Break the tactical nukes out of storage and distribute them to the Navy.

    President Obama, it is time to not just install ABM systems into Poland, but to quadruple the program, make deals with Kazakhstan, Romania, Japan, and Turkey for Missile Defense system installations.

    Make a public declaration that any attempts by Russian stooges in Ukraine to ethnically cleanse anyone, especially "The Jews" will result in US and NATO direct intervention.

    Make the preparations very publicly. Begin buildup of conventional forces in Russian border states, start shipping the 3,000 M1 Tanks in storage to Europe. Lots of press coverage.

  •  Tartars (8+ / 0-)

    Tartars living in a number of Crimean villages have woken to find crosses marked on their doors and not on those of their Christian neighbours.

    They remember very well the treatment they got under Stalin when hundreds of thousands of Tartars were forcibly removed from their ancestoral homelands in Crimea to "Mother Russia". The number living in Crimea today is about the same as the number removed and killed. After Ukrainian independence they returned as far as they could but if you think about it the population should have at least doubled over the course of 50 years.

    Tartars happen to be Muslim and I hope those who invoke the "never again" meme will also apply the principle to them.

    "Come to Sochi, visit the gay clubs and play with the bears" - NOT a Russian advertising slogan.

    by Lib Dem FoP on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 06:59:04 PM PDT

    •  Deported Tatars numbered 193,865 according to (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JesseCW, cybrestrike, Johnny Q

      UN reports. The current population is 300,000.

      The marking of doors, destruction of property and physical violence has been going on sporadically since their return at the fall of the Soviet Union. There have been several reports by Human Rights Agencies about this problem for decades.

      Tartars happen to be Muslim and I hope those who invoke the "never again" meme will also apply the principle to them.
      There is a very large Muslim population in Russia and they have considerable power within the government.
      http://www.foreignaffairs.com/...
      Putin's Khanate
      How Moscow is Trying to Integrate Crimean Muslims

      Despite Tatars’ suspicions of Putin, his post-annexation speech rather dramatically promised to fulfill many long-standing Crimean Tatar nationalist demands. He declared that Tatar would be made an official language in Crimea on a par with Russian and Ukrainian. He also made a rare acknowledgement of the Soviet deportation of Tatars from Crimea, even if he added that "Russian people" had suffered more than others from the repressions of that era. The president promised to take "all necessary political and legislative decisions to complete the process of the rehabilitation of the Crimean Tatar people, which restore their rights and good name to the fullest extent." (In turn, on March 20, in a symbolic gesture rendered moot by the Kremlin's annexation of Crimea, Ukraine’s parliament, the Verkhovna Rada, finally recognized the Tatars as an "indigenous people" -- a gesture their leaders had long connected to the rights spelled out in the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples of 2007 -- and offered to recognize the Mejlis and another Tatar representative body, the Kurultai.)

      There are 6 million Crimean Tatars in Turkey (diaspora at fall of the Ottoman Empire). This country has been a major supporter of those who returned to Crimea.
      http://www.al-monitor.com/...
      Turkey also a loser in Crimea
      ...
      Russians gave what Turkey wanted

      Because of dearth of options, the focus has shifted from blocking the Russian designs for Crimea to protection of Tatars of Crimea. Russia, aware of the question of legitimacy that would arise unless there is the consent of Tatars, offered them guarantees far beyond Turkey’s expectations. Putin told Abduljamil, invited to Moscow, that he had issued directives for the protection of Tatars.

      Moreover, Russia prepared a package that encourages the Crimean Tatars to return to their homeland and assuring their participation in governing it. Turkey’s priority is the return to their homeland of the Crimean Tatars exiled to Central Asia in 1944. Davutoglu noted: “In last 12 years, TIKA and Turkey entered the picture. For our brethren, we built hundreds of tenements, even bought houses from them. Today, the Tatar population in Crimea is slightly above 300,000. This is all because of Turkey’s support.”

      The decisions of the Crimean Parliament also were promising. It decided: “Tatars exiled in 1944 will be encouraged to return. Legal, material and property problems of the returnees will be solved. They will be offered financial assistance for five years. Primary, second and higher schools in the Tatar language will be opened. Historical and cultural relics will be restored. Tatar publications will be encouraged.” This decree also gave official status to Tatar language. Crimean Tatar National Assembly was given legal recognition. They were offered 20% representation in the national parliament. These were all rights Tatars could not obtain from the Ukrainian government. The only anxiety Turkey or Crimeans might express would to be say, “These promises can remain on paper.” But autonomy practices of Russia since the end of the Soviet era shows that at least when it comes to preservation of people’s language and cultures they have not a bad record.
      ...

      •  So? (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        terrypinder, Timaeus

        And Eva Peron put up a big front of organizing charities for the poor from which she ripped off large amounts of money. Never heard of "carrot and stick"?

        As for Putin's promises - MRDA!!

        "Come to Sochi, visit the gay clubs and play with the bears" - NOT a Russian advertising slogan.

        by Lib Dem FoP on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 09:55:23 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I think the Chechens might see (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Timaeus

        things a little differently. I don't think they would trust Putin for an instant. They have seen his actions.

        Here's my take on it - the revolution will not be blogged, it has to be slogged. - Deoliver47

        by OIL GUY on Thu Apr 17, 2014 at 12:56:27 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Most likely (4+ / 0-)

    this is just some antisemitic nut hoping that he can make his fantasies a reality... this is how the unthinkable becomes thinkable.

  •  Unlikely, but here's a true one: (5+ / 0-)

    Russia is voting on whether to force people with HIV to register their fingerprints with the government in order to track them.  This is not propaganda: this is a bill currently in front of the Duma (I'll even quote RT on this).  It has the support of a number of government agencies, but it also has a few high-profile detractors, so it remains to be seen whether it'll go through. The LDPR has a mixed record on getting things through the legislature.

    It's a bold step up from a registry (Russia, like the US, does keep sporadic registries) to fingerprint victims like criminals, but that's exactly what the bill's author wants: "universal fingerprinting would make it easier to fight crime".  So, um... yikes?

    Seriously, it's fucking nuts that this is even a debatable issue.  Then again, Russia rejected UN recommendations for battling HIV on the basis that instead of preventative methods and public health strategizing victims needed psychological counseling because it's "a behavioral disease", so it's no surprise that their numbers are continuing to climb and they're panicking.  It seems the disease does not respond to threats that it's a decadent Western import and against Russian values.

    Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce

    by pico on Thu Apr 17, 2014 at 12:21:34 AM PDT

  •  Also, keep in mind that Denis Pushilin, (7+ / 0-)

    who very well may not be behind these flyers, is doing a helluva job spreading vile propaganda on his VK site without anyone's help.  Because he certainly loves sharing anti-Semitic shit, homophobic shit, AIDS denialism, defenses of Stalin, and rants against tolerance.

    All from the horse's mouth.  If these flyers are forged, it's no wonder they thought him an easy target.

    Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce

    by pico on Thu Apr 17, 2014 at 12:46:49 AM PDT

  •  It may or may not be a false flag operation. (0+ / 0-)

    But, reading the "analysis" the leftist versions of Alex Jones on Daily Kos isn't going to elucidate anything.

  •  My heart sank when I read this. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DEMonrat ankle biter

    I don't know a lot about the region, but I have heard from a number of acquaintances that there is a great deal of anti-Jewish sentiment in the area.  If someone could put together a diary about how and why that came about I think it would be extremely helpful especially if this article pans out to be accurate.

  •  Leaflets were in fact given out. That's been (3+ / 0-)

    confirmed. What is not clear is who's behind them.

  •  It is propaganda. Glad it was debunked. (0+ / 0-)

    I certainly did not believe it.

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