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The Ukrainian Army has launched an offensive in the east to regain buildings seized by pro-Russian forces. Slovyansk and Mariupol are the two main targets of the fighting today.

The Ukrainian interim authorities said Thursday that “civilian activists” had regained control of City Hall in the southeastern city of Mariupol, forcing pro-Russian protesters to leave without bloodshed.

There was no independent corroboration of the account, published by the interior minister, Arsen Avakov, on Facebook. News reports offered a different version of the events, saying that the building had been stormed by masked men who used baseball bats to beat the occupiers.

Also on Thursday, Ukrainian troops backed by five light armored vehicles seized a checkpoint north of the eastern city of Slovyansk, a stronghold of pro-Russian militants in the east, after forces aligned with Moscow appeared to abandon it, Reuters said. There were also reports that Ukrainian forces were seeking to move against the occupied City Hall in Slovyansk.

The BBC reports that five people have been killed:

One roadblock near Sloviansk, in Donetsk region, could be seen on fire amid reports that separatists had abandoned it when Ukrainian soldiers approached.

As many as five separatists were killed, according to Ukraine's interior ministry. An aide to Sloviansk's self-appointed mayor said two people had died.

The centre of Sloviansk itself was relatively calm, BBC correspondent Steve Rosenberg reported. Several pro-Russian armed foot patrols were on the streets but people were out walking, he said.

But RT says that the operation reveals the depths to which the Ukrainian government is in disarray, with people within the General Staff leaking information to the Russian press.
A source in Ukraine’s Joint General Staff has told RIA Novosti that the operation against Slavyansk has been planned by the country’s Security Service, the SBU, and that Interior Minister Arsen Avakov is no longer responsible for the operation.

The groups storming Slavyansk consist of approximately 5,000 militants of the far-right nationalist Right Sector movement, either acting on their own as terror groups or operating as National Guards, the source said. These groups are being supplied with NATO intelligence and aerial photos of the region. The data is being delivered by couriers to avoid interception.

Kiev is not planning to deploy regular troops into the mutinous regions, as the soldiers have been refusing to fight against their own people. The SBU has also deployed up to 500 troops from special forces groups to the area, the source said.

If true, it shows signs of a power struggle within the Ukrainian government, which is seeking to regain control of the situation. Civilians in Slovyansk have been ordered to stay inside.
Police has announced the beginning of the crackdown via loudspeakers and a special vehicle is currently patrolling the streets warning local people about the crackdown.

The local citizens in the city are preparing for the Kiev crackdown. The majority of shops, kindergartens and schools have been closed in the city. Only the shops selling bread and water remain open.

“Around 40 minutes ago fighting started on the outskirts of Slavyansk,” one of the leaders of self-defense forces, Miroslav Rudenko, told Interfax, "We are checking reports of one dead and one injured. There are shootings at a number of checkpoints at some of Slavyansk exit-roads.”

Rudenko said it was impossible to reach self-defense leaders in Slavyansk by phone, suspecting that mobile phone connection could have been switched off.

An enraged Putin was quick to respond.
“If the Kiev regime started military actions against the country’s population, this is without doubt a very serious crime,” Putin said at All-Russia People's Front media forum.
“If current authorities in Kiev have done this [used force], then they are junta,” the president said. “For one thing, they don’t have nation-wide mandate. They might have some elements of legitimacy, but only within the framework of the parliament. The rest of the government bodies are for various reasons illegitimate.”
Vladimir Putin described the use of force in eastern Ukraine as a “reprisal raid” and said that it would have an impact on Russian-Ukrainian relations.
Many of the pro-Russian insurgents, including the Duck Dynasty character who was allegedly in Georgia in 2008 and Ukraine in 2014, have been identified. They are not Russian special forces, but Russian nationalists, Cossacks, and other foreign nationals. The Duck Dynasty character was interviewed by Time; he is actually wanted for crimes back home in Russia.

The website Ukrainian Policy:

From the identified militants, a few notes can be made from the following gunmen who appear to be connected to the raids in Sloviansk and Kramatorsk. For one, not all are from Russia. While some may be local radicals, others appear to come from Belorechensk in Russia, or have connections to related neo-Cossack groups. This does not necessarily exonerate Russian state involvement, however. While it’s been known that military veterans and Russian ‘tourists’ have been actively involved for some time, the presence of Registered Cossacks of the Russian Federation connects Russia officially to the ongoing crisis. Registered Cossack organizations enjoy financial and organizational support from the authorities, including monthly salary as police auxiliaries. This, of course, isn’t the first controversial deployment of Cossack forces, who made a name for themselves on the world stage enforcing the law in Sochi.
Time on the Duck Dynasty character:
Though he would have liked to have served in the Russian special forces, he says his service was in the regular Russian army, and it ended in the mid-1990s, when he attained the rank of staff sergeant. His reasons for coming to Ukraine in March had a bit to do with Russian nationalism, but more to do with adventurism, and even more to do with his apparently being a fugitive from Russian law. Earlier this year, Mozhaev said, just as a revolution was forcing Ukraine’s old regime from power, he was charged in Krasnodar with a violent crime — which he described as “threatening to kill someone with a knife.” When he failed to come up with the bribe money for the corrupt officials who he says fabricated the charges, Mozhaev was put on a national wanted list in Russia and went on the run, according to his account, which could not be verified.
But the Kyiv Post today reports on a Youtube video that says that Russian high-level operatives are behind the present chaos.
Ukraine’s Security Service (SBU) has released a YouTube video it says implicates high-ranking Russian Military Intelligence officers in the April 17 abduction and subsequent killing of Horlivka City Councilman Volodymyr Rybak.
The first part of the video allegedly shows a recording of Russian Military Intelligence Lieutenant Colonel Igor Bezlier ordering a subordinate to abduct Rybak, tie his hands and blindfold him while driving him away to a remote place so that he could rendezvous with the captors.

In the second part of the recording, Russian Military Intelligence Colonel Igor Strelkov – who the SBU says is coordinating the Kremlin-backed separatist movement in eastern Ukraine – calls Vyacheslav Ponomaryov, the self-proclaimed mayor of Sloviansk, “to come and pick up (Rybak’s) body because it is starting to stink.”

In response, Ponomaryov complies, and says he will come to take and “bury the punk.” – Mark Rachkevych

The train wreck in Ukraine continues. All sides continue to be happy with the chaos.
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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (10+ / 0-)

    "The cost of liberty is less than the price of repression." - W.E.B. Du Bois Be informed. Fight the Police State.

    by Eternal Hope on Thu Apr 24, 2014 at 05:01:13 AM PDT

  •  Why do you rebroadcast this obvious propaganda (9+ / 0-)

    trash from the Kremlin media?:

    The groups storming Slavyansk consist of approximately 5,000 militants of the far-right nationalist Right Sector movement, either acting on their own as terror groups or operating as National Guards, the source said. These groups are being supplied with NATO intelligence and aerial photos of the region. The data is being delivered by couriers to avoid interception.
    Russian Media, along with the self-proclaimed mayor of Slovyansk, has also been making the utterly absurd claim that Vice News' Simon Ostrovsky is Right Sector.  Right Sector is Russia's bogeyman for everything in Ukraine that it doesn't like....

    Anyone who sees the photos and videos from Ukraine today can see that very highly trained Ukrainian forces are conducting this operation and not Right Sector.

    "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

    by Lawrence on Thu Apr 24, 2014 at 05:13:02 AM PDT

    •  Because: (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mookins, Wreck Smurfy, Sandino

      I don't claim to be him, but Thucydides reported the Spartan side of the issue in his classic account of the war between Athens and Sparta even though he fought for Athens against Sparta. A responsible writer has to report on all sides of an issue.

      If people in Ukraine's Joint General Staff are leaking information to the Russian press, then that means that Ukraine is in serious disarray, especially when you combine that fact with soldiers reluctant or refusing to move against the separatists.

      "The cost of liberty is less than the price of repression." - W.E.B. Du Bois Be informed. Fight the Police State.

      by Eternal Hope on Thu Apr 24, 2014 at 05:24:39 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Have you even considered that RIA Novosti may just (5+ / 0-)

        be making up this source?

        It's patently obvious that they are just making up all kinds of shit.

        Russia Today's "journalism" in reporting on Ukraine is about on par with the "quality" of sites like Breitbart and Newsmax.

        "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

        by Lawrence on Thu Apr 24, 2014 at 05:31:22 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Fine. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mookins, Sandino

          Prove it. I'll be happy to write about it in a future diary.

          "The cost of liberty is less than the price of repression." - W.E.B. Du Bois Be informed. Fight the Police State.

          by Eternal Hope on Thu Apr 24, 2014 at 05:34:23 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Prove what? (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Timaeus, marsanges, mookins, sviscusi

            You want me to prove that Simon Ostrovsky is not Right Sector?

            Or that Russian troops never were in Crimea?

            Which of the gazillions of false claims made by the Kremlin propaganda outfits do you want me to disprove?  I really don't have time to go through all the lies pronounced by the Kremlin media day after tiring day, but you might want to check out stopfake.org for some insight into that:

            http://www.stopfake.org/...

            Nothing against you, E.H., it just frustrates me to see you falling into the "fair and balanced" trap that the MSM often falls into.  Being fair and balanced when one side is only interested in propaganda can lead to a distorted picture of events.

            "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

            by Lawrence on Thu Apr 24, 2014 at 05:45:58 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  That is factual: (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              mookins, wu ming, Sandino

              Ostorovsky is not a member of Right Sector and there were (as Putin admits) Russian troops in Crimea.

              I'm asking you to prove your claim that RIA is just making all this up. You made an assertion; you back it up. I'm not directing this at you, and this applies just as much to RIA, RT, and Tass and other Russian sources. But information of this nature needs to be examined and debunked. If we don't have a skeptical mindset, then that was the sort of thing that led the NY Times to believe that there was incontrovertible evidence for Iraqi chemical weapons and WMD's.  The problem with Judith Miller is that she didn't cultivate enough skeptical sources to provide fair and balanced reporting on Iraq. That's the mistake we have to avoid, hence my frequent use of RT and other sources that are contrary to the Western narrative.

              Like I say, if you can prove that RIA (and RT) made all this up about a mole in Ukraine's defense forces leaking information, I would be happy to write about it. It's too bad that StopFake doesn't update on a daily basis, because if RT and RIA are as bad as you say they are, there is a need for it.

              "The cost of liberty is less than the price of repression." - W.E.B. Du Bois Be informed. Fight the Police State.

              by Eternal Hope on Thu Apr 24, 2014 at 05:58:53 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Oh, I'm sure that there are plenty of moles in (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                OIL GUY, Justanothernyer

                the Ukrainian security services and military.  

                But expecting ordinary people to continually debunk lies put out at a speed that practically makes constant debunking impossible is a steep task.  At some point, after tons of lies, you just have to consider the source a propaganda outfit.  I'm a private citizen and don't have the time to match a huge Russian network of propagandists that spends hundreds of millions or more/year on propaganda.

                Media are supposed to prove their claims.  That's their job, not mine.  

                "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

                by Lawrence on Thu Apr 24, 2014 at 06:24:50 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  hold (6+ / 0-)

                the original assertion wasnt by Lawrence, it was by RIA Novosty. They are the ones who would have to show that they are not just sputing made up things.

                At the very least, you should treat such a blurb from such a disreputed source as "unconfirmed". Lawrence actually has already pointed you to an obvious discrepancy between this alleged leak info and the trained, well equipped and organized character of the troops involved that is plain to see.

                its similar to these claims that the original "activists" in Crimea were just citizen activists - given the lie by the simple organization and equipment that they displayed.

                The same holds otherwise round too of course, Kiev claims should also be taken with a grain of salt until confirmed. I guess people agree on that.

                --- in other things, I found it highly remarkable that Putin actually accredits a certain legitimacy to the Kiev government. that is something that some people here should pick up on.

              •  P.S. (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Timaeus, mookins, sviscusi

                Here is the latest whopper - and it is from the man who controls the Russian Media, Vladimir Putin himself:

                THU APR 24, 2014 AT 06:32 AM PDT

                Putin: Internet is a CIA Project

                http://www.dailykos.com/...

                "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

                by Lawrence on Thu Apr 24, 2014 at 06:45:15 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Wasn't the internet (0+ / 0-)

                  orginally developed by the federal government and one of the defense-related agencies?

                  Or do you think Bill Gates invented the internet?

                  And with the federal dragnet related to private information worldwide, why would you question that the CIA might very well have some sort of internet dragnet project going on?

                  You're the one who seems a little off here.

                  The banks have a stranglehold on the political process. Mike Whitney

                  by dfarrah on Thu Apr 24, 2014 at 10:59:37 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Not really (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Lawrence

                    ARPANET, which is the part that was developed by the DOD, was one of many pieces of tech that eventually became the Internet.  TCP/IP came from NASA, other communication protocols as well as Routing protocols came from other places.  CERN is as responsible for the modern implementation of the Internet as DARPA was for the initial.

                    All that is meaningless against the ludicrous claim that Putin made though which falls flat when one looks at the history of the Internet or looks at the organizational structure of the U.S. Executive Branch and realized that the CIA and the DOD are separate.

                  •  Everybody knows (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    sviscusi

                    Al Gore invented the Internet, along with Global Warming.

        •  I think their journalism (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Lawrence

          is beyond those sites and is approaching the partiality of the Iranian and the NK state newspapers. But they read like real "journalism".

          •  Agreed. I'll repeat a comment I made elsewhere: (7+ / 0-)
            Russia has set up an english language propaganda network of media that caters to the international left.

            They'll mix solid stories about issues that progressives care about with propaganda, and are now moving more strongly into the propaganda arena.

            To put it bluntly, they've caught people with honey and are now feeding them shit.

            And their propaganda is even worse in the Russian language arena...

            "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

            by Lawrence on Thu Apr 24, 2014 at 05:48:41 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Ukraine in serious disarray (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Timaeus, OIL GUY, Justanothernyer

        is all part of a Narrative that Russia is trying to feed to the world as part of the pretext for the possible invasion. Wonder how the pro-Russian propagandists here going to justify that if/when it happens.

        •  It's not just RT speculation. (5+ / 0-)

          Or propaganda. The piece last night about the Ukrainian soldiers not wanting to move against the protestors came from the New York Times. And Vice President Biden himself talked about Ukraine needing to get a handle on the rampant corruption that is going on. And Right Sector and the Interior Ministry don't get along, especially since special forces directed by the Interior Ministry killed one of their heroes.

          "The cost of liberty is less than the price of repression." - W.E.B. Du Bois Be informed. Fight the Police State.

          by Eternal Hope on Thu Apr 24, 2014 at 05:37:00 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  that alone (5+ / 0-)

            (the latter thing with the fallout between Right Sector and the new Kiev government) should give you pause when you hear such an outlandish thing as this Novosty alleged leak info.

            How likely is it that the Kiev government gives the action against Slavyansk on which the fate of the state might turn, to the very group with which they just had a violent fallout?

            apply simple common sense checks to such alleged news items to class them as more or less probable - that would already weed out the most atrocious propaganda.

            •  I imagine the Army doesn't want to risk more (0+ / 0-)

              mutinies, so the government gives the job to the Security Service, which would like to get the ultraright taking commands from them. Not saying that's a good idea on their part.

        •  i believe the talking points are (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Timaeus, killjoy

          "this has historically been a part of russia, ukrainian fascists are oppressing ethnic russians, the people want to be part of russia, and america invaded iraq so STFU."

    •  As opposed to the propaganda coming out (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Wreck Smurfy, Sandino

      of Kiev media?

      Fascists versus terrorists.

      "When dealing with terrorism, civil and human rights are not applicable." Egyptian military spokesman.

      by Paleo on Thu Apr 24, 2014 at 05:43:17 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  You are the expert? (0+ / 0-)

      How are you so familiar with training of rightwing paramilitary groups in the Ukraine?

  •  gonna repost a comment I just made (10+ / 0-)

    in your previous diary which applies in all of these diaries. And it's not about you EH because your diaries have mostly been OK.

    So many people who know nothing about Russia/Ukraine history and relations are simply extending their anti-American policies ideology into the conflict and knee-jerking pro-Russia.

    My father, who is Russian and lived most of his life there, was pretty pro-Russia when the whole thing started but now after seeing what has been going on with the provocation and aggression, even he's been silent. Very difficult to excuse Russian actions and just blame everything on Ukraine.

    But the same clueless characters on this blog and on all the Media comment sections are parroting the same tired Russian propaganda lines about the evil US and Fascist Ukrainians assaulting poor peace-loving Russian citizens.

  •  I usually don't have the time to (11+ / 0-)

    tip and recommend these days - I often just have the time to quickly read some posts and comments and occaisionally put in a comment - but there seems to be a 'shoot the messenger' bent recently, and especially in this post.

    So Eternal Host please accept my tip and recommend today for your efforts in this and your other recent posts.

    Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

    by InAntalya on Thu Apr 24, 2014 at 06:07:10 AM PDT

  •  You conclude: (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Jodster, Justanothernyer
    All sides continue to be happy with the chaos.
    Nothing could be further from the truth.
    •  It's completely factual. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mookins, Sandino

      You have:
      --Lavrov drawing chilling parallels between Ukraine and Georgia;
      --The US dictating to Russia instead of negotiating after having facilitated the coup;
      --Ukraine not doing enough to reach out to the East and dialoguing with their residents.

      "The cost of liberty is less than the price of repression." - W.E.B. Du Bois Be informed. Fight the Police State.

      by Eternal Hope on Thu Apr 24, 2014 at 06:16:57 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I spent two hours on the phone last night (7+ / 0-)

        with a Ukrainian who has been a law client of mine for eight years.  He and his family and friends, both inside and outside of Ukraine, are terrified by the chaos.  I think you're completely and offensively wrong to assert any kind of political and moral equivalence between the Kievan and Russian sides.

        •  I don't know about equivalence. (0+ / 0-)

          But it is clear that all sides want conflict, or this situation would not be deteriorating the way it is.

          "The cost of liberty is less than the price of repression." - W.E.B. Du Bois Be informed. Fight the Police State.

          by Eternal Hope on Thu Apr 24, 2014 at 06:44:18 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  It is NOT clear that "all sides want conflict"! (9+ / 0-)

            The government of Ukraine has an obligation to keep and restore basic civic order.  No government in the world would let foreign forces occupy central government buildings.  

            That doesn't mean the Kievan government "wants conflict."  It means they must act to oppose anarchy.

            If Putin invades on false premises, as I think is almost certain, the fault will be 100% on the Russian side.

            •  Yes it is clear. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Deward Hastings, mookins

              Every country, including Ukraine, has a right to keep basic civic order. They have a right to evict these people from their central government buildings. That's not my problem with them.

              My question is, why did this movement fail to include the Russian-speaking East? Why did the government try to make Ukrainian the only official language? And why hasn't the government made serious efforts to reach out to the East for the last two months? Why have they not made any serious efforts to crack down on the corruption that was at the heart of the original protests late last year?

              I'm not excusing Putin. If he does invade, it will be a monumental blunder of historic proportions.

              "The cost of liberty is less than the price of repression." - W.E.B. Du Bois Be informed. Fight the Police State.

              by Eternal Hope on Thu Apr 24, 2014 at 06:59:05 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  a monumental blunder of historic proportions (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Lepanto

                Right up there with Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, Yugoslavia, Libya, Syria and on and on.

                Following the "world leader's" good example is a bad idea ? ? ?

                Fake Left, Drive Right . . . not my idea of a Democrat . . .

                by Deward Hastings on Thu Apr 24, 2014 at 08:02:48 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  You're moving the goalposts again (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Tony Situ

                and being what seems deliberately obtuse on those issues.  

                Yanukovich and his buddies/oligarchs were the people doing the large scale theft of billions of Euros equivalent straight out of the Ukrainian treasury and running a Russian style protection racket outside the government.  That has now stopped.  True, the 'other side' isn't nice law-abiding citizens either, but the country is plundered out and we haven't heard of similar predations since their side's takeover (which, as you know, is very weak).

                Yes, to appease the far Right factions participating in the uprising, the parliament did consider revoking the status of Russian as an official language.   It didn't actually do it, but even formally contemplating it seems to be The Worst Crime Ever.  It's only such if you accept the validity of an extreme Russian nationalism.  It's only plausibly so "offensive" if you're ignorant that Russian was the official business language throughout the Soviet era and Ukrainian barred as such for 70+ years, treated as a regional farmer dialect.  The obnoxious and over-the-top Russian nationalist behavior on this matter even has a sociological term: "distress of privilege".  We see it on the Republican side in the U.S. all the time.

                As for why politicians with Ukrainian side appeal don't exert themselves very strongly for Russian side appeal, you might want to check out the politics of Ukraine during the past 15-20 years or so.  

                •  No, it has not stopped. (0+ / 0-)

                  Not according to Vice President Biden, who called out corruption and said that Ukraine had to do more to fight it.

                  You can put whatever spin you want on it, but the appeasement of the far right tells me everything I need to know. Don't get me wrong, something had to be done about Yanukovych given that he essentially declared war on his own people. But the fact of the matter is that the people who replaced him only represented half the people in Ukraine. Our revolution succeeded because we represented all of the people, not just the North or the South. If we had shut out the South from the process, for instance, it never would have succeeded.

                  There is never any excuse to stamp out a culture of another people like the Ukrainian government contemplated doing, no matter what the USSR did. By doing that, even though it was vetoed, it sent the message to the East that they were not welcome in the new government. And then they wonder why the Russian special forces and nationalists and agitators have so much grassroots support over there.

                  "The cost of liberty is less than the price of repression." - W.E.B. Du Bois Be informed. Fight the Police State.

                  by Eternal Hope on Thu Apr 24, 2014 at 02:35:25 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

            •  double standard? (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              mookins, InAntalya, protectspice, Lepanto
              The government . . . has an obligation to keep and restore basic civic order.  No government in the world would let foreign forces occupy central government buildings
              When Assad does it in Syria he's "killing his own people", when the fascists in Kiev do it they're just "restoring . . . order".

              Funny that . . .

              Fake Left, Drive Right . . . not my idea of a Democrat . . .

              by Deward Hastings on Thu Apr 24, 2014 at 07:58:55 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  By your above stated standard (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              protectspice, Lepanto

              it seems that you believe the following to be true:

              - the Mubarak government's fulfilling its 'obligation to keep and restore basic civic order' was simply an incumbent act of 'opposing anarchy',

              - the Morsi government's fulfilling its 'obligation to keep and restore basic civic order' was simply an incumbent act of 'opposing anarchy',

              - the current Egyptian government's fulfilling its 'obligation to keep and restore basic civic order' is simply an incumbent act of 'opposing anarchy',

              - the Israeli military's fulfilling its 'obligation to keep and restore basic civic order' in the West Bank is simply an incumbent act of 'opposing anarchy',

              - the Turkish government's fulfilling its 'obligation to keep and restore basic civic order' during the Gezi Park and related protests is simply an incumbent act of 'opposing anarchy', and

              - the ousted Ukranian government's fulfilling its 'obligation to keep and restore basic civic order' was simply an incumbent act of 'opposing anarchy'.

              Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

              by InAntalya on Thu Apr 24, 2014 at 09:19:49 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  "all sides want conflict" LOL (5+ / 0-)

            the ukrainian military has been absurdly restrained given that they have been invaded, provoked, and threatened in their own country by an invading military force. what the fuck do you think russia would have done to people occupying government buildings in russia proper? negotiated? gave them what they wanted and asked them to leave peacefully?

            this whole mess is exceptionally asymmetric. i understand your not wanting to get caught up in partisan flamewars, and i respect that a great deal (i actually really appreciate your effort in trying to cover the conflict, it is incredibly difficult to do), but assuming a false equivalence between the sides for coverage "balance" strikes me as unintentionally similar to what the mainstream media does with obama. why hasn't he made the GOP willing to cooperate with him?

            •  Yep, look at what the Russians keep doing in (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              sviscusi

              Chechnya.  If some "pro-Ukrainian protesters," led by Ukrainian secret police, took over a government building in Russia, they'd all be dead within a few hours.  And then the Russians would hunt down their family and friends.

            •  It could get interesting (0+ / 0-)

              if Ukrainian soldiers shot a couple of the "unidentified" infiltrating Russian special force folk and nab the corpses.  And then Yatseniuk invites Putin to identify who they are.  

              Putin is of course bully-blustering in order to intimidate Ukraine out of going through with that.  And he'll blow a gasket if they do.

            •  The Ukraine Military (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Lepanto

              Has not been "incredibly restrained".

              During the Crimea Crisis the Ukraine Defence Minister authorized the Ukraine Military Units, (Army, Navy and Airforce) to use full force to defend Ukraine Military Assets in Crimea.

              http://un.ua/...

              Wisely, the Commanders on the ground refused to do so.

              http://mobile.reuters.com/...

              Given that roughly 3/4's of the Ukraine Military in Crimea, have elected to stay in Crimea and become "Russians", you have to wonder, if it had devolved into shooting, what portion of the Ukraine Military would have shot at "The Little Green Men", and what portion would have shot at other Ukrainian Military Units.

              Like the Ukraine, the Ukraine Military is "broken", between pro-Kiev and anti-Kiev forces.

              To launch the "antiterrorist" campaign, the Kiev Government used the "western" based 25th Airborne, in the hopes it would be pro-Kiev. To further illustrate how "broken" the Ukraine Military is, "the CandyMan" had to pony up €2.5 million, for batteries to get the trucks, APC's, helicopters and jets started, for the fuel so they could fly and drive, and for food for the soldiers involved.

              When the 25th actually encountered the anti-Kiev forces, most of them just gave up, not willing to kill their countrymen for Kiev.

              http://www.president.gov.ua/...

              Now, the Ukraine Military has a well trained, well equipped, anti-terrorist unit, the Alpha's.

              http://news2night.com/...

              Apperently, the "Alpha's" have refused, claiming that the anti-Kiev protests are not terrorists or engaged in terrorism.

              Since the Kiev Coup, the Ukraine Government is on it's third Defence Minister, it's third Commander of the SSB, it's Third Commander of the Air Force, it's fourth Commander of the Army, and it's fifth Commander of the Navy.

              Which explains why the current "anti-terrorist" operations are being conducted by pro-Kiev SSB and Police forces, from western Ukraine, reinforced by the pro-Kiev, newly formed "National Guard" units, which are dominated by volenteers from Pravy Sector and Slobovda, most of whom have only a few weeks training.

  •  Thanks for this diary (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Eternal Hope

    It's good to have a real journalist posting on DK, Jesse.

    It's very telling to see the responses accusing you of posting propaganda. After how easily Americans were duped into invading Iraq and abandoning their civil liberties, it takes a special sort of unselfconsciousness (or shamelessness) for people to imagine that what we read in our papers must be true and what we read in foreign sources must be false. A better rule is to treat with especial skepticism any assertions made by an interested party, to always look at whether the facts we think we know serve to predict future events, and especially to make a point of admitting when we are wrong, so that we don't develop a bias toward falsehood.

    Again, thanks for the diary.

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