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Here's a fascinating and unique prospective well worth your time to read - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar: Welcome to the Finger-Wagging Olympics. Kareem is outraged by our outrage. Yes, he is disgusted and angered by Donald Sterling's vile remarks flooding the media this weekend, however, he is more troubled by two other aspects of this incident that he feels are more important but are receiving less attention.

First, Kareem is upset we are all acting as this is some big surprise because he says Donald Sterling's racist track record is long and well known. Second, while we are complaining about the NSA violating our personal privacy, why are we not outraged that his girlfriend has taped their private conversation in order to profit from it or seek revenge?  


What bothers me about this whole Donald Sterling affair isn’t just his racism. I’m bothered that everyone acts as if it’s a huge surprise. Now there’s all this dramatic and very public rending of clothing about whether they should keep their expensive Clippers season tickets. Really? All this other stuff I listed above has been going on for years and this ridiculous conversation with his girlfriend is what puts you over the edge? That’s the smoking gun?

He was discriminating against black and Hispanic families for years, preventing them from getting housing. It was public record. We did nothing. Suddenly he says he doesn’t want his girlfriend posing with Magic Johnson on Instagram and we bring out the torches and rope. Shouldn’t we have all called for his resignation back then?

Kareem goes on to list Donald Sterling's well documented history of racial incidents including when the "U.S. Dept. of Justice sued Sterling for housing discrimination, in 2006. Allegedly, he said, 'Black tenants smell and attract vermin.'"

In 2009, he is reported to have paid $2.73 million in a Justice Department case "alleging he discriminated against blacks, Hispanics, and families with children in his rentals."

In the same year, a Clippers executive sued him for race and age based employment discrimination.

Others have raised these points. The most unique part of Kareem Abdul-Jabber essay comes in the second half of his  vibrant essay when he raises the issue of the violation of Donald Sterling's privacy rights by his girlfriend secretly taping his conversation for either revenge, personal gain, fame, or all three.  

Shouldn’t we be equally angered by the fact that his private, intimate conversation was taped and then leaked to the media? Didn’t we just call to task the NSA for intruding into American citizen’s privacy in such an un-American way? Although the impact is similar to Mitt Romney’s comments that were secretly taped, the difference is that Romney was giving a public speech. The making and release of this tape is so sleazy that just listening to it makes me feel like an accomplice to the crime. We didn’t steal the cake but we’re all gorging ourselves on it.

So, if we’re all going to be outraged, let’s be outraged that we weren’t more outraged when his racism was first evident. Let’s be outraged that private conversations between people in an intimate relationship are recorded and publicly played. Let’s be outraged that whoever did the betraying will probably get a book deal, a sitcom, trade recipes with Hoda and Kathie Lee, and soon appear on Celebrity Apprentice and Dancing with the Stars.

Kareem hopes Sterling loses his franchise and that the Clippers players realize that their identities as individuals and a team are not defined by the "ramblings of a jealous 80-year-old man." A man, we might add is a vile racist, and would seem to have many other "unresolved ussues" too many to even list here, but also surprising others have not mentioned.  

Quoting “(e)ternal vigilance is the price of freedom,” Kareem closes by encouraging us to aggressively root out racism as soon as it appears, and not wait for dramatic moments like we have with Donald Sterling. Please take the time to read this excellent quick essay.

Originally posted to And Now for Something Completely Different on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 08:49 PM PDT.

Also republished by Black Kos community, White Privilege Working Group, and The Wide World of Sports.

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  •  Tip Jar (249+ / 0-)
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    "Seriously, Folks, WTH?" - ("What the Heck? "h/t Joan McCarter, Seriously, Florida. WTF?)

    by HoundDog on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 08:49:49 PM PDT

    •  There is precedent for the league to purchase... (20+ / 0-)

      ... the team and then sell it to another investor (or group of investors).  This was done by the NBA with the then New Orleans Hornets in 2010.

      "In the absence of any viable purchaser seeking to own the Hornets in New Orleans, I recommended to the NBA Board of Governors that the best way to assure stability and the adequate funding of the franchise would be for the league to step in, and complete the transaction and assume control...."
      A year or so later, Tom Benson (owner of the New Orleans Saints NFL franchise), purchased the team for $338 million.

      The profit by the NBA for the deal - $20 million in around 2 years - plus whatever profits they earned during the course of the seasons the league owned the team.

      Looking through the bent backed tulips, To see how the other half lives, Looking through a glass onion - John Lennon and Paul McCartney

      by Hey338Too on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 09:35:10 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  But That Purchase... (12+ / 0-)

        ...wasn't a punitive action. I think Sterling should lose his franchise, or at least give up any control and submit to a lifetime ban from the NBA, but I don't think the NBA should use too much legal force. Not only will it look terrible if Sterling fights and drags things out, but I agree with Mark Cuban's assessment: it would be starting down a slippery slope, if someone in the league can be stripped of his personal property because of personal repugnance. (Bear in mind that Sterling did at least settle the discrimination suits against him. He's not accused of a crime here, just proven graphically to be a very ugly bigot.)

        There's a big difference between being forced to give up control and forced from ownership. Sterling owns the Clippers outright, unlike Marge Schott, another racist who was forced to relinquish the Cincinnati Reds--but her fellow owners were also moving against her. Eddie DeBartolo was forced to give up the 49ers, but he also pled guilty to a felony. This situation is a little dicier. Perhaps the Clippers' sponsors fleeing will speak more loudly to Sterling than NBA commish Adam Silver ever could.

        I also agree with Kareem's point that Sterling's ex set him up. I'm glad she did, and she executed it perfectly. But she set a trap just like those "memorabilia collectors" in Vegas did for O.J. years ago. Just like O.J., Sterling was dumb enough to walk right into the trap. And again like O.J., Sterling deserves everything that happens to him. But the ex is no hero. Especially if she tries to cash in now.

        •  In all honesty, I am not against teaching... (27+ / 0-)

          ... a guy (and guys) like Sterling a lesson.  Sterling is a recidivist - he was caught more than once, did his penance each time, and then went back to his old ways.  If people didn't know it already,  we now clearly know that decisions he makes on the Clipper's and the league's behalf are colored by his world view.  He owns a franchise, and the licensor of that franchise needs to protect its brand.

          Looking through the bent backed tulips, To see how the other half lives, Looking through a glass onion - John Lennon and Paul McCartney

          by Hey338Too on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 10:31:53 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  fascinating. (4+ / 0-)

            especially this early in the morning.
            wee bitty thread, gigantic comments.
            THANK YOU.

            i wish i had a good imbed queued up for you ...

            TRAILHEAD of accountability for Bush-2 Crimes? -- Addington's Perpwalk.

            by greenbird on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 01:03:34 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  He is rotten to the core. (21+ / 0-)

            He will probably be hounded out of basketball, he's 80 and probably doesn't need the grief. He'll never be able to sit and watch a game in public again, so there's no status perk to having the team.

            Beyond prosecuting him for any particular crime he may have committed, I think he's much more of value as a poster boy of the 1%, of just how depraved and sociopathic they can be, how they can be deranged by greed.

            As bad as Romney was and is, his main value to entrenched wealth was to present a mask of respectability, "Ward Cleaver, " for the predator class.

            Sterling is Romney without the mask. Man, is he ugly!

            You can't make this stuff up.

            by David54 on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 06:03:54 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  As is his poor girlfriend. (7+ / 0-)

              Kareem makes an excellent point about the secret taping.  What was the "girlfriend's" motivation here?  And what was she doing with an 80 year old man, which resulted in over $500,000 in "gifts"?  His wife, too.  After years of horrible behavior, why is she still with him?  Let's not lose sight of the fact that all the players here are "ugly".  Even the poor, abused, beautiful young girlfriend.  

              •  You answered your own... (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                slowbutsure, raspberryberet, Fury

                question.  She was in it for the money (and visibility).

                "[I]n the absence of genuine leadership, they'll listen to anyone who steps up to the microphone...They're so thirsty for it they'll crawl through the desert toward a mirage, and when they discover there's no water, they'll drink the sand."

                by cardboardurinal on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 09:03:44 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  Whatever (14+ / 0-)

                I don't really have any interest in yelling at his girlfriend.  I don't see why any of her conduct matters to people who aren't dating her.  

                Sterling's the only player here, really.

                •  I think attacking the girlfriend is stupid, plain (13+ / 0-)

                  and simple.  Of course everyone who's having an affair wants to believe their consort will be the souls of discretion and keep everything private.

                  Welcome to the real world, Sterling.  He voluntarily made these statements.  You only have true privacy if you keep your vile thoughts to yourself.  Once you've shared them with another party, that other party can do with them as they please.

                  I don't care whether the girlfriend was in it for the money, whether she was angry because he was going to dump her or didn't get her an expensive enough car, or whether she was just fed up with his racist comments.  Her motivation has no relevance to what he's said.

                  If I make nasty comments to anyone - spouse included - I accept the risk that they might well be shared with third parties - even the world - someday.  

                  •  Getting Even (12+ / 0-)

                    I as amused by the Clipper's President statement that the woman is being sued for fraud for 1.8 million by the family and she vowed to "get even".

                    Guess what? She did. And then some.

                    Justice for an arrogant bigot living a messy life

                    "I can't believe that the noblest instinct of man - his compassion for another - can be completley dead here". Col. Dax - Paths of Glory.

                    by renewables on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 10:00:53 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  I agree completely. (14+ / 0-)

                    Whether Sterling was taped fairly, legally, vindictively--whatever--has nothing to do with what he said, with his own mouth, completely of his own volition.  His remarks are out there in the world now, where we, the listeners, are free to adjudicate them in the way we think appropriate.

                    Let the lawyers bicker over the woman's motives for making the tape, the legality and circumstances of it.  That has nothing to do with us, nor should it mitigate the consequences coming Sterling's way.  

                    No one forced Sterling to be a racist, and no one forced him to admit that he was. He has zero excuse for his racism, and it's completely fair for all to conclude that he is an entitled, overprivileged, pus bucket.

                    I hope I've made myself clear?

                    •  Where I live, only one party needs to know (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      pasadena beggar, raspberryberet

                      that they are being taped for it to be legal and admissible in court. So I really don't see that aspect as morally wrong. It's not like she secretly taped her neighbors or stalked a co-worker or someone she didn't know. It's NOT like she vaccumed up every phone call since freaking 1987. Pfft. Come on.

                      In some states, two parties have to be aware that they're being taped. No idea if CA is a two-party state or a one-party state.

                      But even if CA is a two-parties-must-be-informed state, that just means the recording is not admissible in court. I think Jabbar is way off base in comparing her to the NSA - so what? maybe he's worried about his own conversations being taped? If so, then don't say anything vile, offensive and stupid!

                      The most common way people give up their power is by thinking they don't have any. -Alice Walker

                      by LibrErica on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 10:58:47 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  California is a two party state (5+ / 0-)

                        and it is illegal to record people without their consent in CA. It is not just inadmissible in court, it is legally actionable and a crime.

                        I think Jabbar is way off base in comparing her to the NSA - so what? maybe he's worried about his own conversations being taped? If so, then don't say anything vile, offensive and stupid!
                        I think he's wrong in his comparison, but the idea that you would only oppose the NSA if you've got something to hide is just wrong.

                        No War but Class War

                        by AoT on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 11:28:11 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  That's not what I said (2+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          raspberryberet, AoT

                          I said you'd only worry about your friends recording you...

                          I think my friends and family vs. the NSA is a very stark difference.

                          My friends and family are around me all the time. They know if I'm saying terrible things.

                          The NSA doesn't know me and has no ostensible reason to try and record anything I've said. Not that that stops them, as far as I know.

                          If the recording is illegal in CA, then so be it. It wouldn't be illegal where I live. So I still don't see it as a moral issue the way Jabbar intends to portray it. But if she can be charged with a crime, then I don't know why she wouldn't be.

                          The most common way people give up their power is by thinking they don't have any. -Alice Walker

                          by LibrErica on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 12:27:05 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  I don't find it a moral issue either (0+ / 0-)

                            to be clear. I'm glad she released this.

                            No War but Class War

                            by AoT on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 04:25:03 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I'm not 100% sure she did. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            AoT

                            The recordings she's alleged were not released by her. I haven't heard an update to that as yet though so maybe she's backpedalled.

                            I hadn't heard about his past comments so Kareem is a bit off the mark, it might have been widely known but it wasn't universally known, my cousin is a fan of the NBA and played ball himself till he shattered his knee and hadn't heard about Sterling in the past beyond his ownership of the team.

                            I wish I had stocks in aluminium these days. All that foil would be a great investment opportunity.

                            by Ceri Cat on Wed Apr 30, 2014 at 01:12:23 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  So it is OK (0+ / 0-)

                            for someone to record personal conversations without the other persons knowledge or consent and release it to the world?

                            Maybe we can cut the deficit if the NSA starts selling the private conversations of celebs to the media.   Oh, I forgot, they just have the metadata, yeah right.

                        •  According to TMZ... (3+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          pasadena beggar, LibrErica, AoT

                          ... Sterling knew he was being recorded at the time he made the comments.

                          Looking through the bent backed tulips, To see how the other half lives, Looking through a glass onion - John Lennon and Paul McCartney

                          by Hey338Too on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 12:35:57 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                  •  "You only have true privacy if you keep your vile (6+ / 0-)

                    thoughts to yourself."

                    As a practical matter, maybe. But the fact of the matter is that people should have the right to not be surreptitiously recorded and then have their statements released to the public. I don't know if that's the case here, but in general we have a right to privacy and that's important to protect whether it's protecting it from the government violating it or if it's individuals violating it.

                    The fact that it's possible for that privacy to be violated is exactly why the right to privacy is a right. If it couldn't be violated then there'd be no point to having a right to it.

                    All that said, given that I don't know the specifics of this situation I can't make any sort of claims as to what the girlfriends may or may not have done wrong. And I think that blaming her is primarily done to distract from the real issue.

                    No War but Class War

                    by AoT on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 10:33:16 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  I met KA-J (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Exquisite, raspberryberet

                    years ago and he is one misogynistic bastard.  So that doesn't surprise me.  He hates women.

                    There was no reason to fear abuse of such mildness, because it sprang not from weakness, but from a higher clarity.

                    by Sally Foster on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 11:59:55 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  So I assume then (0+ / 0-)

                    that you are cool with the whole NSA thing, with private companies tracking everything you do on the web and selling it and all your private info to anyone with the interest and money, and you don't care if your friends and family expose everything from your personal bathroom habits to how you really feel about your acquaintances to everyone who has an internet connection.

                    Privacy is so 20th century.

                •  I think Kareem's got a point about the depravity (5+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Jay C, Matt Z, Fury, Hey338Too, Gwennedd

                  of our culture which validates her extortion/revenge, whatever you want to call it. But I agree that he's the real bad apple As Kareem points out, we've known this for a long time. He should  have been ashamed to show his face years ago.

                  You can't make this stuff up.

                  by David54 on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 11:19:16 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Didn't Know (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    novapsyche, Gwennedd

                    I,for one, knew nothing about this pig before Kos and TMZ.  We don't all live on the West Coast, and we're not all basketball fans.  I appreciate anyone who exposes a bigot and mobilizes a response. Privacy issues can be problematic. THAT I have to admit, but I don't think I'm going to torture myself over this one.

                •  Not that it really matters but (0+ / 0-)

                  Maybe she did it because I read she was half black I don't remember what the other half was. But it's even stranger for him to get upset his half black girlfriend was hanging out with blacks. But who said racist thought things through. So maybe she was on her way out the door and wanted to toss him a get even gift on her way out the door.

              •  Not that his girlfriend's motivations (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Lost and Found

                matter, at this point.  I'm not sure why we should care about that, unless you're going to allege the tape is faked.  And he admitted it was him on the tape, so...

            •  I wonder... (11+ / 0-)

              ...

              Its almost too horrible to contemplate, but...

              The question has come up: If he's this racist, why did he buy an NBA franchise in the first place, where 80% of the players are African-American?

              The horrid thought I had: Being an NBA owner lets him, for lack of a better term, buy and sell black people. (contracts, trades, etc)

              We have no desire to offend you -- unless you are a twit!

              by ScrewySquirrel on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 10:32:19 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I think you've articulated beautifully (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Exquisite, raspberryberet

                just what Sterlings motivation for buying a team in the first place.  Just like Kareem's piece says, we are only 'outraged' with these bigots let out their spew for all to hear - if we don't hear it, we don't really pay any attention to it.

                I agree with Kareem.  I do not feel sorry for the girlfriend - she too was an adulterer here, she was willing to date this idiot knowing pretty much full well what he is, and when things get ugly she gets him on tape.  I'm glad she did - he does indeed need to be exposed, as do all the other closeted bigots out there 'owning' these 'teams'.  And we're all outraged over our own NSA, but feel what she did is right?

                The racism is just under the surface, and other owners may very well feel the same way - they just haven't been taped by their mistresses spewing their toxin.  And with our sickness in Idiot America, one, or both of them, will probably end up with a book deal.  She may be able to do Dancing with the Stars, I don't see him managing that, but one never knows.

                •  I would disagree - I think it's about the MONEY (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  gffish

                  he could make, or possibly the prestige that team  ownership could bring, and probably LESS about the buying and selling or control over persons...

                  but that's just a guess, based on human nature

                  America's LAST HOPE: vote the GOP OUT in 2014 elections. MAKE them LOSE the House Majority and reduce their numbers in the Senate. Democrats move America forward - Republicans take us backward and are KILLING OUR NATION!

                  by dagnome on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 11:55:04 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  He wanted to hang with celebs (0+ / 0-)

                and be on the news.   Otherwise, as has been said, he is just another d-bag slumlord.   What good is money if you can't flaunt it in people's faces, to that way of thinking.

                But what you say does make sense as well, especially if the rumors are true that he didn't like having white players on the team.

        •  "He's not accused of a crime here" (13+ / 0-)

          That doesn't seem to be true.

          Practicing racial discrimination as a landlord or employer is a crime.  It's a crime with specific victims, and if the civil damages are settled, it isn't often prosecuted.

          You can say he wasn't convicted of a crime. But he certainly seems to stand accused of several.

          •  But this isn't about the housing discrimination (6+ / 0-)

            That was in the past. That's part of the problem here, when he committed an actual crime it wasn't a big issue, but when he says this suddenly he's the worst person in the world.

            No War but Class War

            by AoT on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 08:21:54 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  The difference... (7+ / 0-)

              between this and his past racism is that this is in the open.  The audience paying attention to it is far more broad.  Before, it was in capacity as a private citizen (not that that condoned his behavior in any way), but as the owner of one of the better teams in one of the largest media markets in a league that values appearances of reasonableness, it endangers the value of the NBA.  It puts into jeopardy the marketability of two of the most marked players in the NBA (Paul and Griffin) of course there is the idea that sponsors can still support Paul and Griffin without supporting the Clippers franchise, but I'd be willing to bet that some businesses will suspend their deals with them as well to further distance themselves from Sterling and his hateful remarks.  

              And personally, I have been one of the people that thought he should have lost this team years ago.  Not only is he a well documented racist, he was also one of the worst owners in the league for decades.  

              "[I]n the absence of genuine leadership, they'll listen to anyone who steps up to the microphone...They're so thirsty for it they'll crawl through the desert toward a mirage, and when they discover there's no water, they'll drink the sand."

              by cardboardurinal on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 09:09:00 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Housing discrimination is far, far worse (7+ / 0-)

                than saying some racist thing or another. Sure, the words are bad, but the idea that they're even remotely as bad as the actions he's taken is absurd.

                And personally, I have been one of the people that thought he should have lost this team years ago.  Not only is he a well documented racist, he was also one of the worst owners in the league for decades.
                I'm more critical of the media than any people here. The fact that the media considers this more of a story than his actions is absurd.

                No War but Class War

                by AoT on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 09:11:47 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I never said that it wasn't... (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  AoT, gustynpip, Hey338Too

                  worse, I am simply saying that this is more open.  That is why there is outrage here.  Everyday people screw other people, but until they do, or say, something that gets a wide audience, the outrage is muted.  

                  "[I]n the absence of genuine leadership, they'll listen to anyone who steps up to the microphone...They're so thirsty for it they'll crawl through the desert toward a mirage, and when they discover there's no water, they'll drink the sand."

                  by cardboardurinal on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 09:14:12 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  And I think that does us little good (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    lizzyh7

                    It means that the worst racists get a pass because they're quiet about it and say the right things. It means that the worst of the racism gets a pass.

                    No War but Class War

                    by AoT on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 09:19:57 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Unfortunately... (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      AoT, raspberryberet

                      that is the reality in which we live.  Remember, poor people don't have a soap box in which to speak about their grievances.  When you attack a rich person, it will get attention.  

                      "[I]n the absence of genuine leadership, they'll listen to anyone who steps up to the microphone...They're so thirsty for it they'll crawl through the desert toward a mirage, and when they discover there's no water, they'll drink the sand."

                      by cardboardurinal on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 09:43:28 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Focusing on language distracts us from the real (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        cardboardurinal, Hey338Too

                        task. Attacking rich people for what they say means that rich people will say the right things and keep doing the same racist stuff at the same time. We need to work on changing that and not just rushing from one racist outburst to the next. Especially here at dailykos. If any place should do better it's here.

                        No War but Class War

                        by AoT on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 10:27:32 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

            •  Times and attitudes change. (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              AoT, Hey338Too, gffish

              And you're forgetting that technology--social media--Facebook and Twitter MAKE ALL THE DIFFERENCE between how we elected to respond to Sterling then, and how we elect to respond to him now.  

              In this regard, both the points that Jabbar is making are both true and irrelevant.

            •  AoT, I look at it a little differently... (0+ / 0-)

              ... It is now impossible to determine whether Sterling's actions are being made in the best interest of the team and the league or to further his "world view".  If you're a team owner, like Michael Jordan, how can you sit across a table from this guy and think that he has your best interests at heart?  He apparently has ulterior motives - clearly expressed - that associating with minorities is something to be avoided.

              Looking through the bent backed tulips, To see how the other half lives, Looking through a glass onion - John Lennon and Paul McCartney

              by Hey338Too on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 11:21:35 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  "Best interests" is a highly subjective phrase (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Hey338Too

                I'm sure this asshole thinks that he's doing what's in the team's best interests. I certainly think he's a shitty dude and should get kicked out of owning a team, but he should have been kicked out well before now.

                No War but Class War

                by AoT on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 11:25:43 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

        •  I think we'd have to read both the NBA (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          caul, Hey338Too

          Constitution and the franchising agreements to know exactly what personal property Sterling owns.
          My guess would be that allowing (forcing) him to sell the franchise as opposed to simply dissolving it would be the most practical solution for all involved.

          Our government is not yet small enough to drown in a bathtub. That doesn't mean it can't be waterboarded.

          by furrfu on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 03:52:24 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  He should be forced to sell it at a distress sale (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            caul, gustynpip, sacrelicious

            to a minority-controlled buyer.

            Like what happens in an FCC distress sale.

            •  Quite the Opposite - NBA the Motivated Buyer (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Hey338Too

              The NBA is a motivated buyer, and is probably actively taking part in the formation of bidding groups.

              Sterling is a reluctant seller.  Forbes has the Clippers posting 85M a year in operating profit.  Let's assume that it will decrease to an operating loss of 20M a year, due to sponsorship losses.

              He's worth 2B.  He can certainly weather 20M a year in operating losses for the foreseeable future.

              The steady-state value of the Clippers, per Forbes, is 750M.  I'd argue that the NBA would have to offer him anywhere from 950M to 1B for him to part company.

              Learn about Centrist Economics, learn about Robert Rubin's Hamilton Project. www.hamiltonproject.org

              by PatriciaVa on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 09:59:43 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  Yeah, I don't care (9+ / 0-)

          The legal entanglements that turn 30 franchises into a league are no doubt complicated, but at the end of the day, the arrangement is basically a partnership between those 30 owners.  There's nothing novel or unprecedented about buying out a partner who has become a liability for the group.  Heck, it almost happened on Mad Men last weekend.

          And as far as the ex goes, I really don't begrudge her anything.  She busted a bad guy saying bad things that he meant.  It's not like she told him she needed help rehearsing a play and gave him a script.

        •  Keep it alive through the election (0+ / 0-)

          I'd love to see this dragged out long enough to impact the next election.  I'd love for every Republican campaigning to be asked what he (or she) thought about this suit.

          Warren/Grayson 2016! Yes We Can!

          by BenFranklin99 on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 02:35:33 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  The precedent was more due to the owner's (4+ / 0-)

        financial problems.  So it's not yet applicable in this case.  There is clearly a "sell option" in the owners' agreement in a case when one of their own has financial problems.  This is a different case.

        •  He is a franchise owner... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Hey338Too

          I am pretty sure that the NBA, and the other franchise owners, can force him to sell if he becomes a liability.

          "[I]n the absence of genuine leadership, they'll listen to anyone who steps up to the microphone...They're so thirsty for it they'll crawl through the desert toward a mirage, and when they discover there's no water, they'll drink the sand."

          by cardboardurinal on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 09:10:20 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  No Antitrust Exemption (0+ / 0-)

            They can in MLB.

            Last weekend I thought the same.

            But b/c the NBA does not have an antitrust exemption, they can't.

            And making all the Clipper players free-agents would be collusion.

            Learn about Centrist Economics, learn about Robert Rubin's Hamilton Project. www.hamiltonproject.org

            by PatriciaVa on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 10:01:15 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Apparently, the by laws (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Hey338Too

        specify with particularity that the league has the power to do this for financial losses or mismanagement, like the Cavaliers in the 1970s, or fixing games, but there is also a best interest of the league provision that seems to allow for indefinite suspension or other ways to make Sterling's ownership experience miserable.  In the New Orleans situation, they also had a willing seller.  

        Difficult, difficult, lemon difficult.

        by Loge on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 08:12:20 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  It is simple. Don't schedule games (0+ / 0-)

          until he sales.  No games gives an incentive to sale.

          •  there has to be something in the (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            AoT

            by-laws they can at least plausibly point to, or else it's arguably a violation of antitrust law.  Not scheduling games against the Clippers might look like a group boycott.  Sometimes sports leagues are 30 or so constituent members, other times they are single entities, and whether or not the owners have delegated power to the league is informative on whether they are a single entity, but not by itself conclusive.

            This raises one idea, which is what are the reps and warranties in the Clippers' lease with the staples center.  What happens if the Clippers don't have a place to play?  (I mean, besides Seattle.)  

            Fines and suspensions are pretty much the league's main options.  I see an argument that allows termination of ownership with a 3/4 vote, but it's not clear the other owners would agree this is a "contractual" violation or relates to the running of the franchise.  It all gets into a big, three way game of chicken between the league, commish, and Sterling.  My guess is the other owners would be wary of NOT voting to terminate Sterling, and since the immediate comments dealt with attendance at Clippers games, there's enough of a connection they can vote to terminate, but Silver would understandably rather suspend indefinitely pending sale, and Sterling might rather take that versus being forced out.  
             

            Difficult, difficult, lemon difficult.

            by Loge on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 10:30:46 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  The team could buy itself. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        AoT, Hey338Too, Words In Action

        The players form a co-op. Put in some of their own money, get a loan, and buy their own team. I would like to see that happen. These blue haired investors owning teams for their own egos is disgusting.

        A true craftsman will meticulously construct the apparatus of his own demise.

        by onionjim on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 09:26:19 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I don't know how the NBA... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          AoT, Hey338Too

          ...would handle this, but the NFL wrote into their bylaws an absolute ban on collective ownership. The Green Bay Packers are the only NFL team with a large number of owners, all other teams are capped at a pretty small number (I think fewer than a dozen).

          I suspect all the other pro sports leagues (in America) followed suit.

          "It's never too late to have a happy childhood." - Tom Robbins - Political Compass sez: -8.25, -7.90

          by ARS on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 09:43:50 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Players and fans. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          onionjim

          Works for the Packers. Very well.

          I've never left a blank space on a ballot... but I will not vote for someone [who vows] to spy on me. I will not do it. - dclawyer06

          Trust, but verify. - Reagan
          Vote, but Occupy. - commonmass

          by Words In Action on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 03:37:22 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  This is exactly what needs to happen here. n/t (0+ / 0-)

        The Stars and Bars and the red swastika banner are both offerings to the same barbaric god.

        by amyzex on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 01:47:38 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Kareem is right. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      churchylafemme

      Though I have lived in LA for years, I have not been a renter. That said, had I been an apartment renter I might have known more about Sterling than I did.

      Regardless, Kareem is right. Clearly Sterling's racist attitude has been known for decades. Which begs the question. Why has LA allowed this man to buy properties in Los Angeles? If that can't be prevented, why hasn't LA come down and come down hard, on a man who clearly feels that black and brown people are bad for his buildings? The law is clear in this town. Discrimination comes with penalties. Where were the penalties?

  •  really. we get it on 1200 radio stations and then (10+ / 0-)

    react when it gets noticed.  those radio stations are kkk lite.

    those think tanks sell their voter suppression and many other  with racism but the left dont listen to talk radio

    they've been pounding it for years from 1200 radio stations and many of them depending on their association with university sports!

    uni students who let their unis endorse rw radio are idiots. and they suck.

    This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

    by certainot on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 09:06:57 PM PDT

  •  He's right... (49+ / 0-)

    especially the final paragraph.

    Let’s use this tawdry incident to remind ourselves of the old saying: “Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom.” Instead of being content to punish Sterling and go back to sleep, we need to be inspired to vigilantly seek out, expose, and eliminate racism at its first signs.

    A learning experience is one of those things that says, 'You know that thing you just did? Don't do that.' Douglas Adams

    by dougymi on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 09:08:33 PM PDT

    •  yeah (12+ / 0-)

      He might be a little careless with his "we"; I'd expect that most -- if not even a vast majority -- of those expressing outrage now had no idea of these earlier things when they happened.  As far as NBA insiders go (the people who would know), he's quite correct.  He's correct also in the implication that Sterling's expression of personal disgust with the idea of black people around his girlfriend in public is the least of the problems with him.

      I don't agree about the taping, though.  I have no way of knowing anything about this woman in particular, but the position she is/was in, in was of no power with respect to Sterling.  Even with tape in hand, media coverage was all about the "allegedly" -- can you imagine the chance she'd have had of being heard without something so close to proof?  In general I'm in favor of "underhanded" means of acquiring proof when someone needs to present evidence of wrongdoing against someone vastly more powerful than they are.

      And she did manage to bring some light to Sterling's previous racial abuses, regardless of intent, and even if only indirectly.

      The point that should be taken from this is that racist ideas don't exist in a vaccuum.  People do act on them, in ways more widely significant than emotional abuse of a girlfriend, should they have the power to.

      •  The 24yo woman had the power not to sleep with (8+ / 0-)

        the octogenarian.  That's all the power she needed.  She's not a victim here.

        "Because I am a river to my people."

        by lordcopper on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 05:28:33 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Nor is she the wrongdoer. So she chose (6+ / 0-)

          to sleep with an octogenarian.  Let's stone her!!

          No one's saying she's a victim.  But neither is there anything evil with her having taped and published his statements.  I find the notion that we should more or less ignore what Sterling said and instead turn our outrage on his girlfriend to be about the most bizarre comment yet made by anyone.

          •  Yep, with you on this. (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            AoT, gustynpip, raspberryberet

            It's complete bullshit, to divert Sterling's racism into a discussion about whether it was wrong to tape him in the first place.  They're separate issues.

          •  I was responding to this statement from the (0+ / 0-)

            comment above

            I don't agree about the taping, though.  I have no way of knowing anything about this woman in particular, but the position she is/was in, in was of no power with respect to Sterling.  Even with tape in hand, media coverage was all about the "allegedly" -- can you imagine the chance she'd have had of being heard without something so close to proof?
            She was either recording the conversation with Sterlings knowledge or not.  I really don't give a damn.  But I disagree with the argument that she is somehow doing it due to the power differential between her and Sterling.  Despite the benefit of it exposing the truth about Sterling, if she released the tape it was a classless move.

            "Because I am a river to my people."

            by lordcopper on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 10:28:28 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Let's stick to what is truly classless about this (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Mikey, raspberryberet, soundchaser

              situation - and that's Sterling's statements.

              Do you think it's really classless of a woman to report a boyfriend who hits her, too?  Because the boyfriend certainly expected that to be kept quiet.

              •  No, but if you accept financial remuneration for (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                lizzyh7

                sleeping with an octogenarian (unless they're really in love) have the class to stay bought.  Neither Sterling's words/actions, or her release of the tape, reflect positively on the other party.  In other words, just because he's a bigoted ass%#@* doesn't make her a paragon of virtue.

                "Because I am a river to my people."

                by lordcopper on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 10:53:38 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Ah yes. The truth rears its ugly head. What (5+ / 0-)

                  your really pissed about is that a young beautiful woman made a financial profit off her looks.  And that's what has you so pissed off.  God, rich old white men can't even expect their whores to keep their secrets anymore.  What has the world come to???

                  I could care less whether she's a paragon of virtue or not.  She is irrelevant to Sterling's racism.

                  •  I must admit, your spirited defense has caught me (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    churchylafemme, izzitgd

                    off guard.  Can you be objective enough to acknowledge that the behavior of all parties here leaves much to be desired?

                    "Because I am a river to my people."

                    by lordcopper on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 12:16:26 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  The only thing I'm going to criticize the woman (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      raspberryberet, soundchaser

                      for is being involved with a married man.  But even then, she's not the one who promised fidelity.

                      I don't care if he's a year older than her, twenty years younger, or 50 years older.  And I don't care if he's rich as sin and ugly as hell while she's young and beautiful.  I don't care that she got a lot of really nice presents from him.  And I don't care that even after getting those really nice presents, she chose to disclose some very unsavory comments he made to her.  What did she owe him?  Nothing that I can see.  He got what he wanted; she got what she wanted.  They were even.  She doesn't owe him squat, including loyalty.

                      She wasn't his therapist.  He had no reason to assume she wouldn't repeat what he was saying to Magic Johnson or her best friend or anyone else she chose to talk about it to.  The only difference the recording of the conversation makes is that she has proof, so it's not a he said, she said scenario.

                      Sure, it's a scenario that no one wants to have happen to them - you say something to someone you trust and that person breaches that trust by repeating it.  But that's life.  I'd love it if everyone I ever told anything to never went on to repeat it to anyone else unless I asked them to.  But it ain't gonna' happen.  I, and everyone else in the universe, regularly discover that one of our friends or co workers or family passed on some comment we made when we'd rather they didn't.  But we don't get all pissed off about it - we recognize that we were the ones that did the wrong by making the comment.   I don't judge them harshly for doing that, and I'm not going to judge her harshly for doing it.  

                      He is the one that did wrong, and shiny objects of what a terrible girlfriend she was for outing him just isn't going to change that.

                      •  I think its you who is brandishing the "shiny (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        churchylafemme

                        objects". For some reason you're trying to cast the girlfriend in the role of protagonist.  I simply disagree, which in no way absolves Sterling of his responsibility in this incident.

                        "Because I am a river to my people."

                        by lordcopper on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 12:52:21 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  I'm not casting the girl as anything. I think (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          raspberryberet

                          she's totally irrelevant.

                          •  So as a general rule, you think its appropriate to (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            churchylafemme, izzitgd

                            record and distribute personal conversations with your husband/boyfriend/employer/friend etc?

                            "Because I am a river to my people."

                            by lordcopper on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 01:04:16 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Whether it's "appropriate" or not is also (0+ / 0-)

                            irrelevant.  I choose not to do that.  Partially because I see no purpose in it and partially because I would consider it a breach of trust that I want to retain with them.

                            However, that doesn't mean that I wouldn't choose to do it under the right circumstances.  And yes, I can quite definitely envision numerous circumstances that I would consider it appropriate.  Even right.

                            I'll throw out a real simple one.  Say I have a friend who is telling another friend that I'm saying some terrible things about her, and the second friend is terribly angry with me over it.  I would find it very appropriate to record a conversation with the first friend in which she acknowledges that she lied to the other friend about me, so I could prove to that other friend that I had not said it.  I would not have one iota of a qualm about that.

                            So I guess the answer is yes, I do think it's appropriate to record and distribute personal conversations under the right circumstances.

                          •  Your view may be at odds with laws in the State of (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            churchylafemme

                            California.  I stick to my original statement.  The girlfriend isn't a victim, and betraying the confidence of someone you're involved in a "relationship of trust", is not admirable.  That being said, Sterling is still a bigoted A-hole.

                            "Because I am a river to my people."

                            by lordcopper on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 01:23:01 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Well, I'm not in CA. And it's not at odds with (0+ / 0-)

                            the laws in my state - nor the majority of states.

                            Perhaps part of the reason we differ so much is that I don't see see his racist statements as a "confidence".  It's not as though he opened himself up to her about a difficult issue - he didn't come out to her as a homosexual or discuss having been sexually abused as a child or discuss how brokenhearted he was over the loss of his dog.  If it was something that he'd said only because of the level of trust they'd developed with one another, I might agree with you a bit more.  But he made some racist comments during a conversation with her, the same kind of comments I have little doubt he'd made to numerous people over the years.  There's no confidence involved in that.  He just wishes the number of people who knew about it was fewer right about now.

                          •  We both think Sterling's a jerk. The only (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            churchylafemme

                            difference is I think the girlfriend's actions are wrong (immoral, I'll let others discuss the legality), and you don't.  You seem to think that her actions were necessary to bring out the truth, but as I've stated in previous comments, this incident might not even make Sterling's "Top 10".  The guy has been a celebrity A-hole for near 30 years.  For the life of me I can't explain why this statement caught fire, and the others didn't.

                            "Because I am a river to my people."

                            by lordcopper on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 01:43:20 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                •  "have the class to stay bought." (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Mikey

                  What absolute unadulterated bullshit. No woman is required to stay with a man just because he's given her money. What you're talking about is slavery.

                  No War but Class War

                  by AoT on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 11:30:11 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  "Have the class to stay bought?" (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  gustynpip

                  What the fuck does that mean?  Why do you care?  

                  Exactly how much shit are sex workers (not that she is one) supposed to put up with to avoid your scorn for being "classless?"

                  •  Don't compare this behavior with someone who (0+ / 0-)

                    trades their body for survival.  I think you know its not the same thing.

                    "Because I am a river to my people."

                    by lordcopper on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 12:44:08 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  So where is your line for whores who can (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      raspberryberet, soundchaser

                      be understood and those who should be condemned?  I get that you think that it's okay to have sex for money or goods if you'll die otherwise.  But what if you don't have money for rent, is it okay to have sex for money to pay for that?  If so, can her rent only be for a studio apartment in a bad part of town or can she own a 3 bedroom house and be making mortgage payments on it?  If she reaches the point where she can not only pay for food, but also even rent, is it acceptable for her to buy a car and still be selling sex?  

                      Seems to me again that what you're really pissed about is that she got paid too damn much for having sex with this old wanker and now she's profiting from it some more, when she should somehow be punished.  You've judged her for one thing and are trying to justify it by claiming your judging her for something else.

          •  That is hardly what (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            lordcopper

            Jabbar is saying.  There IS more nuance to this discussion and his article than you are giving credit for here.  

            No one is saying 'stone the 24 year old' but she wasn't totally unaware of his feelings before this, come on.  She just managed to get him on tape.  That to me means she's heard the same spew before, and kinda had to know what she was setting out to tape.

            His point on that is where is the 'outrage' over her doing that, and where is the real outrage that his words are NOT new!?  How many of these owners out there feel the same way about their teams?  It really makes ME wonder.

            Yes Sterling's a misogynist and a bigot - big fucking surprise there?  Hardly.

        •  it's pretty obvious what she was looking for (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          lordcopper, raspberryberet

          I definitely don't see her as a victim, but I also think it's a mistake to turn the focus onto her illegally recording the conversation (which I do think was wrong, but ... not where the focus should be.)

    •  I was unaware that a private conversation (0+ / 0-)

      Between two parties being made public is the same as intrusive, warrantless searches by a government.

      His standard is a dangerous thing, for a conversation recorded of criminal conspiracy by a private citizen who was alarmed at what was being planned would be inadmissible for either a court or for an investigation.

    •  Thanks Timaeus. It's good to hear from you. How (9+ / 0-)

      are you doing? Do I remember correctly you were facing some pretty big health issues a few months ago, or am I confused?

      Sorry, if I am. I only got about 2 hours of sleep last night and I'm getting too old to do this. Whenever this happens it really screws up my short-term memory.

      Earlier someone was congratulating me for a post I wrote last week, and when I looked at the title I didn't even recognize the  for a moment.  I drew a complete blank. Granted I've written 30 posts since then but still.

      Whatever, I hope you are well. It is good to "see" you. Thanks for commenting.

      "Seriously, Folks, WTH?" - ("What the Heck? "h/t Joan McCarter, Seriously, Florida. WTF?)

      by HoundDog on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 09:31:03 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  doggie ... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        suspiciousmind, HoundDog

        it's hard, but you have to do it: that first step is in recognizing that you have a problem.

        no one DOESN'T have a problem.
        my problem is i'm surfing.
        but i'm also right here.
        how can that be ?
        i've NEVER surfed before, at all EVER.
        i don't really even like the BEACH.

        i feel like a creature from DUNE.

        i feel like i may next find that i'm preparing a cocoon or chrysalis -- just as i had been surfing, while going about my normal usual routine.

        so far, at least, the music has been ... astonishing.
        don't know. can't say. not worried. can take care of myself very well, it seems ... unless i'm a booby trap.

        the bomb squad is aware; it's a low-level notification status; if and when i begin making a certain regular sound, the status will be elevated.

        it almost feels like i understand, but i'm sure i don't, and never will. i just try not to wipe out. it's not too rough, sometimes it's fun, or dazzling. couple of times it's been Nancy Grace/Andrew Dice ? Clay fucking insane; but essentially a "oh there it is" acknowledgement from me, neither pain or pleasure, joy or fear: my focus is on MY intended task.

        it's been a busy, full week and i'm behind with MY task but i guess i had all this other stuff to learn - experience and understand - before i could continue. an OK deal; fine with me.

        i stopped expecting "sleep last night" and i stopped expecting to safely leave the house without developing a CORE checklist: am i wearing jeans ? are they zipped ? did i put my false teeth back in ? am i relaxed and loose so as not to carelessly cause myself to fall down the stairs ? having a blood test done tomorrow -- will joke with the phelebotomist to check for traces of self-stoning (or somewhere nearby is some superior bud floating my way).

        my habit now is to cleave to no former habit, free-flow living at its birth. it was exhausting; then i stopped resisting; then i stopped being bothered by it; then it was just another backdrop.

        you, on the other hand, need a sidekick.

        someone willing to proof-read your final drafts prior to publish. your important work is writing the diaries. your expendable energy tanks aren't big, and are getting smaller. typos and etc. cause your readers (picky foolish ones like me) to have a rough read; a sidekick can help smooth and polish your words so readers aren't puzzled, or so no point you make is buried by some strange "floater" (like those of our eyes), or a fattle-batigued-commander-like phrase.

        oh, well. baobabs. bulldogs. big storms in Arkansas, today is and tomorrow.
        today is and yesterday.

        i'm a scanner of dkos for now, but haven't left completely. i may bump into you in the cyclotron.

        i would rather get a kosmail, whenever you decide to ease up and learn to play even though all these things are going on ... than eventually get back in only to learn you've flamed out. i visualize tropics, but you could dream of antartica. go there, o! go wherever you dream ... and dream a new dream for you. it will be alright, we'll be alright and you'll be better. ♥

        TRAILHEAD of accountability for Bush-2 Crimes? -- Addington's Perpwalk.

        by greenbird on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 01:50:12 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  AHA !! (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          HoundDog

          i've been muttering BEAUTIFULLY to myself of late.
          it helps keep me on track, on the board, in the groove.

          maybe we both could consider this: either to begin (careful, now - brand new idea * highly volatile) a feedback loop ... (run with that one, doggie) ...

          or to

          what ... to what ? (not touching that one. recommend that nobody touch that one) but one sees Graham Chapman suppressing a howl of laughter. a howl.

          TRAILHEAD of accountability for Bush-2 Crimes? -- Addington's Perpwalk.

          by greenbird on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 01:57:34 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  I know exactly what you mean greenbird. (0+ / 0-)

          Surfing can be fun.
          Lot's of reasons
          pull us into the waves

          Some choose for play
          then go back to shore to rest.

          Some arrive in surprise
          and can't get back.
          except when falling
          only to surf again
          never coming to shore
          to rest and catch ones breath.

          Are some of us surfing forever more
          yearning in vain for a time
          when steady balance
          gives one assurance?

          Can we learn to balance
          land steer better than intermittent riders?
          To do impressive and fun tricks
          the land band dare not try
          for fear of falling?

          Reaching out to grasp the froth
          of the outer most and biggest waves
          may be a secret joy.
          God's consolation prize
          for a life well lived
          now dissolving.

          Your upbeat, and positive enery
          provides a helpful boost, greenbird.

          Yes, sidekicks are a wonderful help
          but hard to find and keep.
          Some so stubborn and not
          graceful surfers, the extra burden
          weighs down ones' board
          below the sea.
          The things we do for love.

          Practice makes perfect
          as long as we are living
          and breathing we can create
          new things and grow.

          Help, and kindness
          coming from unexpected strangers
          like a blessing from angles
          brightens our day
          and give hope
          of better and easier days to come.

          I still find my way to land
          most of my days.
          Part of me has always been able
          to see the future so I know
          completely what you mean.
          Oh, except that part about Baobabs,
          You either lost me
          or I totally disagree with.
          But, that OK greenbird

          For we will always be friends
          and fellow travelers bound
          by some common inexplicable
          common understanding  of
          ineffable mysteries
          so easily expressed.

          Cheers and keep on truckin'

          Blue Jess asked me to host Street Prophets tomorrow at 1:00 pm if you have the time and can drop by for moral support I'd be greatly appreciate. Having to consciously choose and plan a post challenges me in unfamiliar ways. My usual pattern here is totally spontaneous and random inspiration based on reading articles.

          I'm thinking of either "My 8 most favorite spiritual painting and images" based on my recent visit to the Boston Museum of Find Arts Religious section. or "A History of Stain Glass in Churches."  Or my favorite quotes from the Dalai Lama. I still have 24 hours so I'm not stressed out yet.

          Cheers.

          "Seriously, Folks, WTH?" - ("What the Heck? "h/t Joan McCarter, Seriously, Florida. WTF?)

          by HoundDog on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 10:47:54 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  He is wide of the mark on both counts (19+ / 0-)

      First, I'd never heard of Stirling before this, I suspect like most of America, especially those who don't have an interest in basketball and who don't live in LA.  Apparently it wasn't so obvious and open that the local NCAA didn't decide to honor Stirling twice  I think if the local NCAA didn't know, I'm on safe ground saying I had no notion.

      Second, there is a MASSIVE difference between the NSA spying on someone and someone's girlfriend doing it.  She doesn't have the full power of the state behind her.  His girlfriend is not answerable to an organization that has the power to arrest detain and harass those engaged in political organizing.  She doesn't communicate regularly with the FBI and the police.  She isn't listening in on every conversation in America essentially without cause.  The power she has is not the envy of every dictator in history.  The power the NSA has, is.

      The authority of the NSA is a massive danger to democracy, as anyone with any experience with an authoritarian state with a secret police can tell you.  I'd advise Mr. Abdul-Jabbar familiarize himself a little with how this works before deciding these are in any way equivalent.

      The fact that so many think that this point is well taken tells me that the larger danger is that so few AMericans have any real understanding of why the NSA's power is so dangerous.  It isn't about your private protection from prurient prying eyes.  It is about the ability of dissidents to organize and take action without disruption.   The NSA is a major chunk of a turnkey authoritarian state.  It is a loaded gun lying on the kitchen table.   THAT is why it matters.

    •  My take is only marginally different, Timaeus. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Timaeus, Penny GC, JayBat, Matt Z

      First, why are we surprised that there's this kind of racism in the US?  It's out there, everywhere.  

      Secondly, I agree with Kareem that he should have been given the gate as soon as his landlord behavior was known.

      But... thirdly... I'm not sure the girlfriend/mistress didn't release the tape for the sole purpose of finally revealing his insanity racism to all the world.  Maybe she'd just had enough of this crap.

      No, I don't generally endorse that kind of thing: I think it's creepy and a deep violation of their personal relationship (however fucked up that may be), but I'm not ready to condemn her for that.

      Just thinking out loud here.

      Where enough money calls the tune, the general public will not be heard. Inso­far as corruption cuts the link between political thought and political action, a free marketplace of political ideas loses its point. -- Justice Stephen Breyer

      by Yasuragi on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 07:49:13 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  He is indeed very intelligent, (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      terrybuck, pasadena beggar

      but Kareem also made some unfortunate comments saying the girlfriend basically entrapped Sterling.  

      Difficult, difficult, lemon difficult.

      by Loge on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 08:16:23 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I can understand why he thinks that............... (0+ / 0-)

        Listening to the tape I also had the feeling she was setting him up.  He's an evil bastard and I wish him as much punishment as the law and the NBA allows but methinks she was up to something other than an a little argument with her sugar daddy and it may have to do with the lawsuit against her.  

        Proud to be a Democrat

        by Lying eyes on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 08:45:13 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  if you look at the deadspin article, (5+ / 0-)

          he started the fight by bringing up her instagram account, and she was saying things like Matt Kemp is mixed race, and Magic Johnson is Magic freakin' Johnson.  The comments also say that he knew he was being recorded because he has trouble remembering things, including as sometimes happens, remembering not to be really racist.  

          I don't doubt that she gets some benefit out of this in defense of his embezzlement suit, and I think she's probably awful and nice guys like Matt Kemp and Magic Johnson shouldn't associate with HER, but he didn't seem to need much prodding.  The "bitch set me up" defense doesn't excuse activities in which the recordee willingly participates.  

          She's also not the government, and the NSA doesn't listen to the content of phone conversations without a warrant, so while Kareem has a point about earlier stories of his racism, he's bringing together a bunch of things that do not seem to have much to do with each other beneath very surface resemblances.

          Difficult, difficult, lemon difficult.

          by Loge on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 09:04:34 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Technically the NSA doesn't really listen (0+ / 0-)

            to much at all. They collect and correlate stuff and then give it to other agencies when it's requested. And other agencies almost certainly listen to phone calls without warrants. Or with token warrants they get after the fact from FISA.

            No War but Class War

            by AoT on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 09:22:34 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  No, I haven't read the article and (0+ / 0-)

            don't need to.  My comment was based on the tape.  I listened the it and like everyone I've talked with who listened to it, there's a consensus that she's leading him, slowly and purposefully.  I came away from listening feeling dirty just from hearing his racist words and from being a party to what amounts to eavesdropping so I'm going to take another shower and try to forgive myself.

            Proud to be a Democrat

            by Lying eyes on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 09:39:28 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  FWIW I paused four times, after rereads, (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Loge

            before rec'ing that.

            I don't endorse all of that.  But I strongly support the main point.

    •  I have followed Kareem/Lew Alcindor (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JayBat, Damnit Janet, ARS, Matt Z, Timaeus

      since he was a freshman at UCLA.

      He is by far one of the most thoughtful athletes out there.

      "The truest measure of compassion lies not in our service of those on the margins, but in our willingness to see ourselves in kinship with them." Father Gregory Boyle, Homeboy Industries

      by Mr MadAsHell on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 08:43:04 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Exactly... TMZ ain't the New York Times (20+ / 0-)
    He was discriminating against black and Hispanic families for years, preventing them from getting housing. It was public record. We did nothing. Suddenly he says he doesn’t want his girlfriend posing with Magic Johnson on Instagram and we bring out the torches and rope. Shouldn’t we have all called for his resignation back then?....

    Shouldn’t we be equally angered by the fact that his private, intimate conversation was taped and then leaked to the media? Didn’t we just call to task the NSA for intruding into American citizen’s privacy in such an un-American way? Although the impact is similar to Mitt Romney’s comments that were secretly taped, the difference is that Romney was giving a public speech. The making and release of this tape is so sleazy that just listening to it makes me feel like an accomplice to the crime. We didn’t steal the cake but we’re all gorging ourselves on it.

    Warning - some snark may be above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 "I’m not the strapping young Muslim socialist that I used to be" - Barack Obama 04/27/2013 (@eState4Column5).

    by annieli on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 09:20:29 PM PDT

  •  I've liked him since he was Lew Alcindor, (15+ / 0-)

    playing at UCLA with Mike Warren and Lucius Allen.

    the woman who is easily irritated

    by chicago minx on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 09:20:34 PM PDT

  •  A sky hook of context from the big man. (12+ / 0-)

    "And now we know that government by organized money is just as dangerous as government by organized mob." -- FDR

    by Mogolori on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 09:26:23 PM PDT

  •  Let me explain where I saw Kareem (21+ / 0-)

    the last time I saw him. Jim and I were at an art-glass auction, because this was the year we were writing for Maine Antique Digest. Midway through the auction he came into the auction room, sat right in front of us, bid on a tremendously tasteful Tiffany lamp which he bought for something like $11,000, and left. Yes, intelligent with a terrific eye for quality.

    Of course he's on target on this. Thanks, HoundDog.

    Seneca Falls, Selma, Stonewall

    by Dave in Northridge on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 09:28:07 PM PDT

  •  Coach John Wooden (6+ / 0-)

    would be proud of his star pupil.  

  •  Reports are saying that she taped... (12+ / 0-)

    the conversation with his consent because he forgets things frequently and wants a record of what he says.  

    "Really nice, but also very serious about his job." Jackie Evancho on President Obama 6/7/12

    by BarackStarObama on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 10:33:41 PM PDT

    •  Ok, but that's different from giving consent (0+ / 0-)

      as in being on record, which still means her use of it this manner, as Kareem says, is sleazy.

      So, as he says, the outcome was great but the means were sketchy.

      I've never left a blank space on a ballot... but I will not vote for someone [who vows] to spy on me. I will not do it. - dclawyer06

      Trust, but verify. - Reagan
      Vote, but Occupy. - commonmass

      by Words In Action on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 03:51:16 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  This tape really is just the tip of the iceberg . (10+ / 0-)

    Agree with Kareem that on some level this isn't really news, because it is entirely consistent with what has been known about Sterling for a long-time.  The guy is just an all-around terrible human being.

    Initially my reaction was that the guy needed to sell his team, but legally, the NBA may be able to make the guy pay a bigger price by keeping him in the league and then sanctioning the hell out of him and the franchise.  

    e.g. one idea was to allow his players to become free agents after the season; he could be suspended indefinitely as well.  Under league rules there is a minimum team salary that every team needs to maintain -- people would play for him, but he would have to overpay big time and none of the major stars would come to play for his franchise.  Basically his franchise would be given the equivalent of a death sentence so long as he remained the owner.   As long as he is in the league he can't sue fellow owners either, so they could make life difficult harder for him in the league than outside of it.  Add into the mix the squeeze play from sponsors who are jumping the ship, that fans would jump ship too -- in part because the team would stink -- and the local TV contracts would be less lucrative too in the short term, and financially the penalty ends up being much more severe than if he is forced to sell.

    Will the other owners go this route?  Think it's more likely than him being forced to sell the team.  However, if Sterling is just given a slap on the wrist, as a fan I think this would be an absolute outrage.  At that point the entire league becomes implicated in Sterling's actions.  Once again, this recording just brings into focus a long-standing issue with Sterling.

    As far as this secondary issue goes with respect to his girlfriend, if it's actually true that he knew about the recording and actually requested it, that's pretty hilarious.  That would be a perfect ending for his horrible career.  I find it hard to believe, but then again it is semi-plausible because the guy is a nut.  If it is actually true that the conversations were recorded illegally, that's obviously a serious problem.  In the end though, on the Sterling side, there aren't many sympathetic figures.  The players, coaches and fans didn't really ask for this either and this distraction is unfair to them.  The Clippers team right before this incident was poised to make a legitimate run at the NBA title.  

    •  If he is so far gone that he has to have his (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Norm in Chicago

      conversations taped, the piling on re his statements is a
      persecution of an elderly guy with dementia.
         The conversation was weird. The girlfriend's comments seemed to have been dubbed in or, alternatively, she was shaping the conversation in order to put him in the worst light.
          On the tape it's clear that he felt that he was being cuckolded by Magic Johnson and his comments about Instagram and bringing Magic to his games had to do with not being embarrassed by his girlfriend being seen in public with Magic Johnson specifically. The race thing was peripheral to the exchange and the girlfriend seemed to be the one making it a racial issue.
         While the guy's private comment re racism were despicable, this was a private conversation. I have to wonder why the girlfriend published the tape and who is behind the media campaign against him.
         I agree with Kareem Abdul Jabbar re the impropriety of the taping, as well as re Sterling's public actions, as opposed to private speech.
         There is more to this story and we aren't hearing it.

      •  I think it's obvious why the tape was published (8+ / 0-)

        The girlfriend is being sued by the wife to give back everything Sterling ever bought for her, including her condo.  I think she decided that if she has to give it all back, she's going to burn it all down.

        •  California Law (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Norm in Chicago

          I originally thought the wife's lawsuit was weak, then I googled California community property law.

          California Family Law Section 1100 (b) states that gifts of community property cannot be made by one without the written consent of the other.

          Looks like maybe she was buring down the house.

          Unless the girlfriend claims she gave him "fair value" in return.

          "I can't believe that the noblest instinct of man - his compassion for another - can be completley dead here". Col. Dax - Paths of Glory.

          by renewables on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 10:21:11 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Illegal unless married. (0+ / 0-)
            Unless the girlfriend claims she gave him "fair value" in return.
            Has there ever been a case in court where a girlfriend was awarded a cash value for sex?  That's prostitution.  Sex is for love or fun, not money.  Not legally without a ring.
            •  She'll Defend With Something (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              AoT

              True, and my "fair value" line was something of a snark.

              Still she could claim it was for "companionship" and the sex was not compenated.

              Afterall, he is a billionaire and she incurred a lot of costs to look nice at his parties and events.

              "I can't believe that the noblest instinct of man - his compassion for another - can be completley dead here". Col. Dax - Paths of Glory.

              by renewables on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 10:46:42 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  So she was an escort? (0+ / 0-)

                Well then I'd counter that she owes 35% of everything she got to the IRS. I hope she was paying Social Security and Medicare taxes on all those "earnings" as well.

                Did she get a 1099 from him?

                •  In any event (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Norm in Chicago

                  it appears she did not raise this defense in her response to the suit.

                  Her response claims it was a gift that that the wife knew about and that Section 1100 of the Family Code applies only to dissolution of marriage proceeding (but there is no citation to support this last latter claim and I don't see anything in the code that supports it).

                  "I can't believe that the noblest instinct of man - his compassion for another - can be completley dead here". Col. Dax - Paths of Glory.

                  by renewables on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 02:24:15 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

        •  Oh. (0+ / 0-)

          I didn't know.

          Then the sleaze factor that Kareem speaks of is even greater. And the defense that the tape might be doctored may have a basis...

          Now, since he has a clear history of being a racist makes the outcome vis a vis the league and the team justifiable, but it does complicate one's evaluation of the how and why we got this particular piece of evidence.

          I've never left a blank space on a ballot... but I will not vote for someone [who vows] to spy on me. I will not do it. - dclawyer06

          Trust, but verify. - Reagan
          Vote, but Occupy. - commonmass

          by Words In Action on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 03:55:07 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  I've only listened to a few minutes . . . (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Wednesday Bizzare, catwho

        but it does sound like she is leading the conversation -- trying to draw his racist views out.

        I have zero sympathy for the guy, however, because this is the bed that he made for himself.  He was involved in these purely transactional relationships -- which he actively sought out -- and he's finding out that there is also a downside to the arrangement.  He may have simply found someone who is as sleazy and conniving as he is.  

        If she broke the law, she should go to jail.  But it is impossible to lose sight of the fact that this guy really put himself in the compromised position that he's in.  This has been a big part of his history for years, it isn't an aberration.  

      •  Really? Not remembering things is dementia? (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        pasadena beggar, raspberryberet

        I find your defense of this asshole dispicable.  It's okay to be a racist asshole if you think your mistress might be involed with a Black man?  And it's okay to be a racist asshole in "private" conversations?  How exactly does the "motivation" of the girlfriend affect what he said in any way?  Does it make it less true that he said them?  Does it make the statements involuntary?  

        "Media campaign against him".  What an - erm - "interesting" description of current events.

        •  gustynpip - Really? Well I think that your "burn (0+ / 0-)

          the witch" mob mentality is contemptible.
             Is the guy suffering from dementia? Well, let's see: He's pretty much in the last days of his life and his girlfriend says that he is so far gone that he has her tape his conversations because HE CAN'T REMEMBER WHAT HE SAID.
             Gee, do you think it's possible that he might have a mental handicap?
             Should John Nash have been condemned for his anti-semitic statements when, while he was suffering from schizophrenia, he expressed paranoia about "the Jews?"
             If the girlfriend was telling the truth, the guy is not in his right mind. If she wasn't, she apparently has broken the law.
             You seem to think that it is okay to break the law and record and publicize a private conversation, as long as it outs a "racist asshole."
             Really? What else do you think is okay? Tapping his phone, maybe? How about installing a keyboard logger onto his computer? Slipping surveillance cameras into his bedroom?
             What other thought crimes do you think justify any means necessary to bring them to public attention?
             You reflect the mentality of the lynch mob, of the McCarthy years. Somebody holds out something said in private and you're all set to wreck his life. Why wait to see what else is going on? Who needs fricking context?

              The fact is, the guy wasn't talking to you. His arguments with his GF aren't the public's business. Racist asshole or not, he has a right to privacy, and a right to his private opinions and attitudes, even if they make him a hypocrite.
           

    •  I don't follow the NBA and don't know (0+ / 0-)

      what the Clippers' chances of reaching the title might be; but I was thinking this morning that if I were a player, I'd have a hard time giving it my best to put a championship trophy in that guy's hands.

      You can't spell CRAZY without R-AZ.

      by rb608 on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 06:56:26 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Well (17+ / 0-)

    Kareem's statement certainly doesn't make the NAACP look very good.  And if this were common knowledge, where was Kareem's voice?  It's a bit "off" to criticize the public's reaction to this brouhaha because everyone knew this already.  So, should he be given a pass?  And where was Kareem's voice in making this public beforehand?  Was it not a big deal to him?  Is that his point?

    As for the taping, surely he understands the law regarding recording people, no?  Does he really think those standards should be abolished?  His analogizing it to the NSA is so ridiculous that it doesn't require explaining.  It sounds to me that he is really responding out of self-interest as a celebrity susceptible to similar behavior.  

    All in all, a not very compelling argument from the legend.

  •  doggie, my doggie ... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Words In Action

    in one of your other recent diaries i posted a doggie vid you may have missed ... or you may have ignored because you hate the song ... but either way is OK.

    it was my way of saying hi, but i think i'll be back, despite feeling quite like ahab, with his flopping arm others interpreted to be a beckon ...

    my flopping arm would be something other than that.

    i'm taking active guesses as to the breed of dog recorded near the end, providing -- finally !! and with much celebration at its capture -- the EXACT and ONLY vocalization TFF would permit to be used in the recording.

    and they were really happy. "you can save it now, for your grandchildren!" ♥

    TRAILHEAD of accountability for Bush-2 Crimes? -- Addington's Perpwalk.

    by greenbird on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 12:54:37 AM PDT

  •  I have an Kareem story (14+ / 0-)

    His family and mine lived in the same housing complex in the Inwood section of Manhattan for a while in the early 50s. My mother says that she wondered why this one kid would be playing with other kids much younger than he was, but she found out he was just much taller than others his age. Years later, she realized who he was.

    I don't remember him at all, but I was very young then.

  •  Kareem's POV may be a bit different from the (10+ / 0-)

    rest of us as he has been a personality for decades now.  In our hero worshiping culture, celebrities frequently find their privacy and personal life intruded upon, not only for curiosity but also for profit.  Life in a fishbowl is exhausting as we have seen professional athlete after athlete have his personal and professional life compromised by revelations which would not raise an eyebrow were the person not famous.

    He does have a point but it remains  minor point from my POV compared to the other problems Sterling's behavior puts on display.

    BTW some celebs are pushing back
    Consider this case by Chuck Yeager
    http://www.callawyer.com/...  

  •  Antoine St. Exupery (3+ / 0-)

    and his lesson from the Little Prince regarding baobabs was clear, simple and beautifully illustrated to show the jeopardy -- root them out early, when they're small and manageable; regularly examine for new ones; because mature baobabs, allowed to grow on this small globe, will destroy it: they are scaled to the size of Earth, not to the size of the Prince's small globe.

    monstrous roots will crush the life out of it; the small globe will be destroyed, along with everything else on it.

    such as the Prince's fickle, finicky red red rose.

    TRAILHEAD of accountability for Bush-2 Crimes? -- Addington's Perpwalk.

    by greenbird on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 01:14:56 AM PDT

  •  Meh . . . (26+ / 0-)

    Don't get me wrong - I think very highly of Kareem as a writer, but he doesn't have my buy-in on either of his two major points this time.

    1 - Kareem is "bothered" by the fact that the Sterling situation is a "big surprise".

    I think Kareem is being parochial here.  Sure, he'll know all about Don Sterling - he's a former NBA player, and he lives near LA.  This whole thing is big news for most of America, however, who never heard of Sterling.  For them, it really is a big surprise.

    2 - Kareem is "equally angered by the fact that his private, intimate conversation was taped and then leaked to the media".

    Why is he so incensed?  Does Abdul-Jabbar protest too much at the choices two private individuals made?  What exactly is wrong with presenting newsworthy recordings to the media which excoriates a high-profile person? It's obviously big news - the story is everywhere.

    Abdul-Jabbar might complain that subterfuge was suspected in the process of obtaining those tapes, but even then, I would tell him caveat emptor.  Who's job is it to see to it that Don Sterling isn't duped by his girlfriend?  Not Kareem and not us, so what is there to provoke Kareem's "anger"?

    Finally, neither one of Kareem's points rises above the news about a horrendously racist NBA team owner, which remains - as it should be - the real story.

    Know that $20 I owe you? Well, since money equals speech, then speech, of course, must equal money. C'mere and I'll read you the Tao Te Ching.

    by thenekkidtruth on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 03:15:56 AM PDT

  •  The NBA is taking criticism... (6+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RF, doroma, AJayne, terrybuck, kingfishstew, caul

    ...for not having canned Sterling earlier, but I don't see how they could have canned him for completely non-basketball transgressions.  What's different now is that he's saying he doesn't want blacks at his games, which gets into NBA territory in a way that housing discrimination doesn't.

    It's not the side effects of the cocaine/I'm thinking that it must be love

    by Rich in PA on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 04:27:36 AM PDT

    •  Don't the franchise agreements have something (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      burlydee

      like a morals clause?  I would be surprised if they do not.

    •  Yeah (0+ / 0-)

      I mean, I don't know what the legal arrangements are.  But at some point, they'd be able to buy him out and make him go away.  At least, the other 29 owners could have banned him from their arenas, solicited other buyers, and otherwise made it very clear that he was a pariah.

      I don't really care whether or not his transgressions were basketball-related or not.  You don't have to partner with an asshole.  

  •  Basically, The media controls our thoughts. (8+ / 0-)

    That's what Kareem is saying. We are lemmings and we don't get outraged until the media says it's OK to be outraged. Why do you think global warming isn't number one priority? Because the media doesn't think it'll sell papers.

    "It's no measure of health being well adjusted to a profoundly sick society"

    by buckshot face on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 05:26:57 AM PDT

  •  The girlfriend claims he knew he was being taped (6+ / 0-)

    most people in the media keep saying she recorded a private phone conversation.  It was not a phone conversation.... they were both in the same room and she has over 100 hours of tapes.  He wanted her to record him because he would often forget their conversations.  He wanted a record of what he told her.

  •  This is perhapes one of the most (7+ / 0-)

    Inept , convoluted , pathetic pieces Jabber could have written.

    On the Rachel Maddow show , last night he even stated that because nothing had been done in the past, that now,"it is too late." This is absurd and puzzling.

    What is outrageous is that Jabbar and the other Black players continued to work for this man on his "Plantation" and did nothing.

    Now they are outraged???

    Why, because they fear that  they may no longer be seen as fierce he- men, conquering heroes but, as individuals involved in an "extension of childhood" multi-billion dollar industry where they are no more than high priced Plantation help( Stock)?

    Credit must be given to the Northwestern players who have  demonstrated more moral courage and manly guts than Kareem and all those like him in acknowledging how they are being crudely used..

    Oh yes, do not forget that Jabbar wants to have the girlfriend prosecuted, because she had more courage to expose Sterling than he and others do.  

    •  Kareem never worked for Sterling (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Norm in Chicago

      Northwestern voted down the union.  The girlfriend didn't show courage in my opinion.  You think this is the 1st time he said racist things to her? How else did she know to record? She is recording his messages and leaking them to TMZ of all places, for personal gain.

      He is 100% right. The NBA should have pushed Sterling out a long time ago.  He's a known racist.  And it's not just the players who were honoring him.  it was the fans, the NBA, ESPN and the NAACP.  

    •  Now this is an excellent point (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      caul, gustynpip, raspberryberet
      Oh yes, do not forget that Jabbar wants to have the girlfriend prosecuted, because she had more courage to expose Sterling than he and others do.  
      Kareem is a widely -read and -regarded writer who could have broken this story anytime.  He has credibility both as a long-time respected writer, as well as an LA native and a paramount player for many years in the NBA - a consummate insider who could have been the perfect-storm person to produce such an exposé.

      His anger (his words) at Sterling's girlfriend having made this story a media firestorm suggests the possibility that this could have been his story all along, but he was beaten to the punch.

      One could read remorse into Abdul-Jabbar's essay that it wasn't his buzzer three-pointer which lit up the wires, but it could have been.

      Know that $20 I owe you? Well, since money equals speech, then speech, of course, must equal money. C'mere and I'll read you the Tao Te Ching.

      by thenekkidtruth on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 06:44:55 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The only one that looks worse than Sterling is.... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      R30A

      the NAACP.  

      Lifetime Achievement award?  That kind of whoring out an organization makes the girlfriend look like a virgin.

      To avoid starting dumb wars, punish the dumb people who vote for them.

      by joesig on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 09:11:26 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  This is what we've come to here? (0+ / 0-)
      What is outrageous is that Jabbar and the other Black players continued to work for this man on his "Plantation" and did nothing.

      Now they are outraged???

      Why, because they fear that  they may no longer be seen as fierce he- men, conquering heroes but, as individuals involved in an "extension of childhood" multi-billion dollar industry where they are no more than high priced Plantation help( Stock)?

      It's now okay to call black men "no more than high priced Plantation help (stock)" and have that comment recommended?

      Geezus.

      Proud to be a Democrat

      by Lying eyes on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 09:17:37 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I was put off by that phrase, as well. However, (0+ / 0-)

        I assumed - perhaps foolishly - that the author is Black, since I assumed - definitely foolishly - that a white person wouldn't use such inflammatory language, but that a Black person would (much the same as Blacks feeling comfortable calling one another the n word, but considering it unacceptable from whites).  

        Nevertheless, the found the balance of the comment very on point and therefore rec'd it, irresponsive of my discomfort with that phrase.  The intent was clear - and it was not to somehow suggest those working for Sterling are still the equivilent of slaves.

    •  He wants her prosecuted (0+ / 0-)

      because she may have violated California state law, which makes it illegal to record a private conversation with another without their consent.

  •  Not correct about Romney (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Deep Texan, thenekkidtruth, caul, Joe Bob
    Romney was giving a public speech
    I understand his sentiment but I wish his comments were tighter and more accurate.  

    Romney  was not "giving a public speech." He was in a private residence at a closed fundraiser.   There have been discussions about whether the taping was illegal under Florida law.  

    Jabbar would have been better to simply mention how Romney was never publicly forthcoming with his personal views--actually lying about them--and it took a secret taping to reveal those views.  

  •  15, 10 years ago it took a lot of effort to record (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Norm in Chicago

    a telephone call.  Nowadays it's an app.  That point of the story disturbed me.  I tell all my friends and clients to always assume you are being recorded.  Well, by someone other than the NSA ;-) I'm not a married rich dude with a mistress, but if I was I would have my mistress sign the same confidentiality contact as most million/billionaires have their household staff sign.  Because believe me when I say this if you are uber rich and have a lover (especially one you are about to kick) someone somewhere is recording you.

  •  I'm glad this was said (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    WorkerInUSA, Words In Action

    The whole "taped phone conversation" thing to me is just wrong, regardless of what was said.  While it exposes the mans true character - it was never intended to be in the public domain - it was a private, illegally recorded conversation.  I don't think there are too many people who haven't said something in a private conversation that if it were out in the public, wouldn't get them in hot water. Not insinuating something racial but something that you wouldn't be too proud of.

    As far as Sterling - the fact that he's losing sponsors, fans and all his credibility will take care of his ownership situation - he'll have to sell.

    The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only legitimate object of good government. - Thomas Jefferson

    by ctexrep on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 06:11:12 AM PDT

    •  Taped or no (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      doroma, gustynpip, orestes1963

      Wouldn't that same argument apply if she just gave an account of their conversation?  If he's entitled to privacy, he's entitled to privacy of the contents, not the sound of his voice.

      I don't see it.  Your private conversations are owed privacy from the government, and eavesdroppers, but other participants can share when appropriate.

    •  Absolutely right (0+ / 0-)

      It is the USE of the tape which is wrong. I don't care who made the tape. Why are people defending the sale of this tape for massive money (and if you don't think money was involved in this process, you are clueless)?

      Let's say you take a naked selfie and send it to your girlfriend/boyfriend. After a time, you break up. The BBF/BGF sells the selfie to a revenge porn site.

      You cool with that? Or are you outraged?

      Those who support this must also, for consistency, support revenge porn. There is no difference.

      •  Really? You consider racist statements to be (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        pasadena beggar, AoT, Mikey

        the equivilent of a naked selfie?

        Sad.

        •  I don't see that there is a legal difference (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          churchylafemme

          Which is the point here.

          There is an obvious moral difference, but the law isn't terribly concerned with morality.

          I don't see how you can make surreptitiously recording a statement of any sort and then releasing that statement legal and make releasing a naked picture of someone that they sent to you illegal. Even if he knew he was being recorded there would almost certainly be an implicit expectation of privacy in both cases.

          No War but Class War

          by AoT on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 10:40:42 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  There's quite a legal difference. (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Mikey, soundchaser, orestes1963

            Seriptitiously taking pictures of people naked is illegal.  Recording conversations that you're a part of is not, in most states.

            While you (and he) might have some "implicit" expecatation of privacy when having a conversation with someone, that expectation is what is flawed.  Just as another party can go and repeat the conversation to others ( and I'm sure you've had the unpleasant experience of that having happened to you at some time), so can the recording be replayed, except in the very few states that prohibit the recording.

            When that wanker from New York who's name i can't remember sent pictures of his junk to a woman, that woman shared those pictures.  We weren't all outraged over the fact that she did that.  I rather expect he had an expectation of privacy there, too.

            In those who are outraged over the recording, I notice a common misunderstanding of the difference between a situation where one would hope there would be some privacy and a situation that actually provides assured privacy.  It seems you and others who think like you need to become more realistic in regarding when you can truly expect privacy and when your privacy is dependent solely upon those with whom you chose to share.

            •  We aren't talking about taking pictures (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              churchylafemme

              without someone's knowledge. Revenge porn is most often when someone takes naked pictures with the consent of both parties but with the expectation that they will remain private and then one party releases the picture.

              And in California, where most of the conversations probably took place, it is illegal to record a conversation without the consent of all involved. It appears that these recording were done with his consent though, so that's not a big issue. That's what makes it comparable to revenge porn.

              It seems you and others who think like you need to become more realistic in regarding when you can truly expect privacy and when your privacy is dependent solely upon those with whom you chose to share.
              There is a reason we have privacy laws and this is exactly it. Because violation of privacy are a real threat. Otherwise why bother with a  law? I fully understand the possibility that if I record myself and give it to someone they may well release that recording.
              When that wanker from New York who's name i can't remember sent pictures of his junk to a woman, that woman shared those pictures.  We weren't all outraged over the fact that she did that.  I rather expect he had an expectation of privacy there, too.
              He actually sent pictures over twitter, he did not send the privately. At least if it's the same thing I'm thinking of.

              And to be clear, I'm not outraged by the recording, I fully support her releasing this recording. I just think there are other important issues that are being glossed over in the rush to point out another rich asshole. I mean, how much does Warren Buffett make on private prisons in our racist justice system, and he gets a pass because he didnt get recorded saying something racist.

              I'm glad that she released this and I'm glad Sterling is finally going to get his. But that doesn't mean that privacy rights should go out the window.

              No War but Class War

              by AoT on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 11:14:10 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  What is the difference? (0+ / 0-)

              In both cases you assume you are not being recorded for public gratification, whether doin' it or having a conversation in your home or other place where privacy is usually assumed.

  •  15, 10 years ago it took a lot of effort to record (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Words In Action

    a telephone call.  Nowadays it's an app.  That point of the story disturbed me.  I tell all my friends and clients to always assume you are being recorded.  Well, by someone other than the NSA ;-) I'm not a married rich dude with a mistress, but if I was I would have my mistress sign the same confidentiality contact as most million/billionaires have their household staff sign.  Because believe me when I say this if you are uber rich and have a lover (especially one you are about to kick) someone somewhere is recording you.

  •  It's shocking in a "post-racial society"... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    a2nite, doroma, Words In Action

    to be reminded that just because important strides have been made doesn't mean that discrimination and oppression aren't ingrained into the very fiber of ourselves and our (usually - hopefully) unconscious behavior.

    Sterling's biggest sin - like Cliven Bundy's - was not leaving enough wiggle room in his statement to allow others to excuse it away as something other than racism. We're programmed to say "no, I'm sure racism is not why he did x," and merrily ignore the pattern of behavior. We don't want to believe it. We don't want to have to deal with it. Kareem is a smart, well informed man - he sees it.

  •  I am as disgusted by these comments as everyone (4+ / 0-)

    else but Kareem's comments have really made me think. The truth is that for most of us, especially white Americans like myself, our outrage only appears when we are confronted with an egregious and public example of the kind of racism that Mr. Sterling and Cliven Bundy have recently displayed.

    I'm certainly not an NBA insider but Kareem is right when he says that I was well aware of Donald Sterling's racism for years. Where has my outrage been for all those years? Why do we continually let people like this continue to thrive and get ahead only until they make a very public spectacle of themselves?

    I'm not quite sure yet how I feel about the NBA forcing Mr. Sterling to sell his team as a result of this, if that's even a possibility. But I know this: it's partly my fault that he owns the team in the first place. It's my fault that he has a multi-million dollar real estate empire and it's my fault that he gets to live in a nice house and never has to worry about money. Why? Because I looked the other way and so did most of you. We only came out when we saw a videotape of tv. We came out only after it became far to late to effectively punish an 80 year old man or more importantly, change the way he thinks.

    Our crime is worse than his.

    •  I've turned a corner since Cliven/Sterling as well (4+ / 0-)

      No more passive chiding in the face of horrendous and blatant racism for me.  Henceforth, that perpetrator can fully  expect my whole-hearted contempt and full-throated condemnation of that kind of BS.

      I've had it.  The reality-detached Supremes love to talk about the mythical post-racial America.  I'm here to do my part to make that a reality.

      Know that $20 I owe you? Well, since money equals speech, then speech, of course, must equal money. C'mere and I'll read you the Tao Te Ching.

      by thenekkidtruth on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 07:05:06 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I had never even heard of the dude (3+ / 0-)

      I don't follow or support professional, commercial sports.

      Without this tape, I never would have been aware of his racism. And I think that goes for lots of other people.

      How the NAACP had this vile person lined up for an award is beyond me - they certainly had a full awareness of his racism, but had overlooked it because of the $$$$$ element.

      That's where my disgust is being directed.

      And guess what..they are ALREADY talking "forgiveness" so they can "work with him".

      Barf.

  •  Uhm, no. (8+ / 0-)
    Shouldn’t we be equally angered by the fact that his private, intimate conversation was taped and then leaked to the media? Didn’t we just call to task the NSA for intruding into American citizen’s privacy in such an un-American way?
    Nope. His girlfriend or somebody else he knows secretly taping a conversation and then going public with it and the government spying on its citizens are two entirely different things. What a ridiculous comparison!

    The whole article seems kinda moronic to me. The first point is only barely less nonsensical than the second:

    He was discriminating against black and Hispanic families for years, preventing them from getting housing. It was public record. We did nothing.
    It may have been public record, but I didn't even know that there was a sports team called Clippers, let alone that their owner is a racist dick.

    Duh.  

    "I understand, Mr. Spock. The glory of creation is in its infinite diversity."

    by brainwave on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 06:35:53 AM PDT

    •  Well, he was talking about people who "know" (0+ / 0-)

      the NBA, which, though it does not include you or me, is not a small number of people.

      Among the comments here there is confirmation that it was widely known; again, among those who follow the NBA.

      So Kareem's point--that there was plenty of evidence to act on in the past, that this sleazily obtained recording need not and should not have been the mechanism for finally doing some--seems reasonable to me.

      btw, he implicates himself as well.

      I've never left a blank space on a ballot... but I will not vote for someone [who vows] to spy on me. I will not do it. - dclawyer06

      Trust, but verify. - Reagan
      Vote, but Occupy. - commonmass

      by Words In Action on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 04:26:59 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  kareem is a good guy (0+ / 0-)

    I read a book that he wrote a while back.  It was a good book.  A little self congratulatory, but nonetheless.  

    I only say that as someone who really likes him, and who has thought similarly about sports.  

    I don't remember what it was called, but it was about his experience coaching on a reservation.  

    A good double header would be "Lone Ranger and Tonto Fistfight in Heaven," by Alexie and "A Season on the Reservation: My Soujourn with the White Mountain Apache".

    Streichholzschächtelchen

    by otto on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 06:46:45 AM PDT

  •  It's kind of a mixed bag (6+ / 0-)

    He makes a few good points, but...

    The NSA comparison is ridiculous, for one, but the worst graf was this dreck:

    And now the poor guy’s girlfriend (undoubtedly ex-girlfriend now) is on tape cajoling him into revealing his racism. Man, what a winding road she led him down to get all of that out. She was like a sexy nanny playing “pin the fried chicken on the Sambo.” She blindfolded him and spun him around until he was just blathering all sorts of incoherent racist sound bites that had the news media peeing themselves with glee.
    Fuck that. The man revealed his racism. Really disappointing in Kareem for the weird sexism and ignorance in that statement.
  •  It doesn't surprise me in the least. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    fou

    I was initially surprised but when I found out about Mr. Sterling's history I was like well that fits.

  •  He knew he was on tape, it wasn't secret. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    doroma

    The girlfriend was constantly taping their conversations--which he approved--because he was always forgetting conversations and things he said. He also wanted to have documentary recordings "for posterity" when he planned to do memoirs or some such thing.

    So no, I'm not outraged at the recordings.

  •  I'll say this like I'd say it directly to the man: (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    doroma, Jeff Simpson, Coss

    "no, sir... I completely disagree with a part of what you're saying, specifically the "shouldn't we be outraged that he was taped" part.

    according to her, he knew he was being taped.  but even if he didn't:  this seems to have been the only reason he's being publicly dressed down now, so it seems to have been necessary.

    other than that I find your op-ed on target."

    This comment is dedicated to my mellow Adept2U and his Uncle Marcus

    by mallyroyal on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 07:33:21 AM PDT

    •  The issue is not the tape (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      churchylafemme

      The issue is the USE of the tapes. How much money was made by selling the tape? Why do we condone this dreadful violation of privacy?

      What is the difference between this and taking the naked selfie you have on your camera and posting it for revenge porn?

      Once the zone of privacy is breached, we are all at risk.

      •  Um (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        gustynpip

        Every difference in the world between this and revenge porn.

        •  Oh? What is the difference? (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          churchylafemme, Eric Stratton

          There is NO difference, except you disapprove of one and not the other. In both cases, a private record is sold for devious purposes.

          Do you collect pictures of naked Kate Middleton? If not, you probably approve of that, since it too is exactly the same.

          The issue here is privacy. Even rich fat republicans have a right to privacy.

          •  Oh, come on (0+ / 0-)

            Here's the difference.  One has no expectation of privacy in a conversation on has with another.  That person has every right to report the contents of the conversation to anyone s/he chooses.  The actual recording is merely the means of reporting what the paramour had every right to report in her own voice.  

            In the latter case, the picture is the content.  I have not researched this area of the law, but I would assume that if you, for example, give someone a naked photo of you as a gift, you have no right to privacy over that photo (unless there is a separate contract addressing its distribution).  The moral of the story is don't let anyone take naked pictures of you unless you are willing to have them shared with others, because in most instances, it will be.  

      •  dreadful violation of privacy? (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        doroma, CaliSista

        where was he?  where was this tape made?  were there other people around?  was it in a public space?  did he know he was being taped?

        do you know the answers to any of those questions?

        This comment is dedicated to my mellow Adept2U and his Uncle Marcus

        by mallyroyal on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 08:06:58 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You take a selfie without your pants (0+ / 0-)

          on.

          Your girlfrient/boyfriend gets mad, and posts it as revenge porn.

          Is this good or bad?

          I don't approve of revenge porn. THIS is revenge porn, porn of a verbal kind.

          •  you answered nothing I asked. (5+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            doroma, Mikey, CaliSista, gustynpip, Plox

            I'll take that as an "I don't know."

            This comment is dedicated to my mellow Adept2U and his Uncle Marcus

            by mallyroyal on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 08:15:26 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Similar with you (0+ / 0-)

              I take your unwillingness to have an opinion on revenge porn as a firm stance in favor.

              Gee, this is fun.

              •  you're making the "revenge porn" thing up from (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                gustynpip

                whole cloth.  I'm asking things pertinent to whether or not this was an invasion of privacy.

                I'm giving the benefit of doubt that you know the difference.

                This comment is dedicated to my mellow Adept2U and his Uncle Marcus

                by mallyroyal on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 08:22:44 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  It's a simple literary/argumentation device (0+ / 0-)

                  It's called an analogy.

                  Most people, excepting some (you??), do not approve of the revenge porn approach. Something private is taken and misused. Bad.

                  Here, we have something private that was taken and misused. How do I know that? The PRESUMPTION is that permission must be given. Was permission given? Did he sign something? If not, this is a violation of privacy?

                  I work in a medical area. Every time a famous person comes to our facility, someone violates their private data, and this often results in some consequence. Data, whether medical records, private conversations, or selfies, are private unless you have a signed statement. That is a firm societal belief.

                  Do you have evidence that this private conversation was meant to be released? I have not seen that. Thus, it does not exist. This is a violation of privacy.

                  •  surely this is snark. (0+ / 0-)
                    I have not seen that. Thus, it does not exist.

                    This comment is dedicated to my mellow Adept2U and his Uncle Marcus

                    by mallyroyal on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 08:32:37 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Snark? (0+ / 0-)

                      People go to jail when they violate confidentiality of records. They lose their jobs.

                      You are defending this process of violating privacy. Next, you'll be defending the placement of cameras in bathrooms.

                      I do not support violations of privacy. I am a card-carrying member of the ACLU.

                      •  you just said because you haven't seen something (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        doroma

                        then it doesn't exist.  wanna try again, or wanna say another thing that has nothing to do with my comment?

                        wait:  you're READING my comments, right?

                        This comment is dedicated to my mellow Adept2U and his Uncle Marcus

                        by mallyroyal on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 09:01:15 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                      •  Holy cow that was a leap (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        gustynpip
                        Next, you'll be defending the placement of cameras in bathrooms.
                        No I really don't think that this is a slippery slope that Mally will very soon be advocating unauthorized potty pics.  

                        not all those who wander are lost - J.R.R. Tolkien

                        by Lilith on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 09:08:41 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                      •  You seem to be amazingly invested in (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Mikey

                        your outrage over the taping.  First, people might lose their jobs if they violate the confidentiality of their jobs - they don't go to jail.  There is NO LAW providing that people can not report whatever knowledge they have, unless that knowledge was obtained illegally, and therefore no law is broken when confidentially is not maintained.

                        If you're going to be so outraged about something, at least try to maintain some semblance of facts when expressing your outrage.  You have a weak argument to begin with.  When you start making up a bunch of shit to try and support it, it really unravels fast.

                        No one has a right to privacy regarding what they chose to say to another person, unless they have a specific contract regarding that issue.  Your thoughts are private; your words are not.  

                        You might want to live in fantasyland where those you trust will never tell anyone else any of your secrets.  But if you've told one person - even if that person is your spouse - it's really not a secret anymore, and that person is within their legal right to pass that secret on.

                        Your support of the right to privacy is simply misplaced in this situation.

                        •  There's a Time correspondent on law (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          churchylafemme

                          Eric Goldman. I sent him a note, suggesting he write on this topic. Because, in CA, there are laws about this. But, thank Gawd, IANAL, so it's better to get an expert opinion.

                          •  I don't know what the laws are in California. (0+ / 0-)

                            However, the majority of states permit the recording of telephone calls as long as one of the parties is aware of the recording and a few more permit the recording of nontelephonic conversations.  

                            However, even in those states that prohibit the recording of conversations without all parties' consent, no party is prohibited from sharing whatever was said with third parties.  Therefore, there is not true right to privacy even then.  It's just a matter of whether it can be proved what was said if one party denies it.

                            Because there's no prohibition against sharing information gain in any conversation, I think the reason for making it illegal to record conversations has less to do with privacy than with fairness.  If one person knows it's being recorded and the other doesn't, it's much too easy for the one knowing to create a false and unfair result.  I know judges tend to discount any recorded conversation because of this fact.

  •  It is wrong to post private conversations (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    churchylafemme, swampyankee

    It is wrong to post such conversations. This is a violation of one of our most fundamental rights - the right to privacy.

    It is wrong to take pictures of Princess Kate's naked chest, and sell them for large money to dreadful publications. Why is this different than that?

    Why is it that people who are famous lose EVERY right for privacy? There is a PUBLIC sphere, and there is a PRIVATE sphere. We should NOT be breaching the walls of privacy, even for a dreadful person.

    It is said that even a horrible murderer deserves a vigorous, competent defense in court. It is also true that dreadful beliefs stated in private deserve privacy.

    Because if this guy has no privacy, no one has privacy.

    •  What? (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Lilith, terrybuck, doroma, gustynpip

      You honestly don't see the difference here?

      •  Nope (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        churchylafemme

        The right to privacy is a fundamental right. What you say in private is private. That is one of the most important rights.

        Every little break in that wall is important. Down the road, we have cameras in bathrooms, to make sure nothing bad goes on there.

        •  That's really not true (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          doroma, Lilith

          If you confess to a crime "in private," unless it's to your spouse, priest, or psychologist, that confession is usable against you.  

          The right to privacy is generally only applicable against intruders.  What you say to other people, you say with the expectation that they may relate that information to third parties without your consent.  

          As should be obvious, this is an extraordinarily different circumstance than a photographer with a telescope, hundreds of yards away, intruding.

        •  You do not know the law, that is apparent (0+ / 0-)

          but think through your position logically.  What constitutes a "private conversation" that you believe should not violated.  Isn't every conversation we have a private one (except if speaking to a government agent)?  Is it contingent upon the number of listeners?  The location of the discussion (eg, private home v. public sidewalk)?  May the speaker simply say, this is private, and that strips all listeners of repeating the speaker's words?  

          Think of the implications for the legal system.  If every private conversation is off-limits, what kind of testimony would be permitted?  

      •  From your comment above... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        churchylafemme

        You said above:

        Wouldn't that same argument apply if she just gave an account of their conversation?  If he's entitled to privacy, he's entitled to privacy of the contents, not the sound of his voice.

        I don't see it.  Your private conversations are owed privacy from the government, and eavesdroppers, but other participants can share when appropriate.

        Let's modify that second paragraph:

        I don't see it.  Your personal naked selfies are owed privacy from the government, and eavesdroppers, but other participants can share when appropriate.

        So, you good with that?

        •  "When Appropriate?" (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          doroma, catwho, gustynpip, soundchaser

          Sure.  When my personal naked selfies are a matter of legitimate public interest, they can be shared.  If they're needed to identify my dismembered body, say.  Maybe as evidence in my divorce proceedings.

          Maybe to reveal a swastika tattoo.

          Privacy, like virtually everything else, is balanced by other concerns.  It should not be violated for idle curiosity or raw cruelty.  But your privacy is not a shield for your appalling hatred.

  •  Contrary to what Kareem wrote... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    doroma, Coss

    …I had never heard of Sterling before this, whereas he had worked for Sterling. And, I believe the conversation was taped at Sterling's request. Thanks.

  •  The woman (0+ / 0-)

    What I heard was the typical racism of the people of my parents generation from an old man who was upset his "girlfriend", the age of a possible grand-daughter, was friendly with a black man.  His sexuality may have been a bigger part of the conversation than his racism.  For those of us raised with racism, it was every day stuff.  But usually old men with young girls were not given such a free ride.  Her taping him and then releasing it to the news was very younger generation.  Old men don't think of these things because they were not possible to do not that long ago.  The media would not have published it.
    Welcome to the world of our Grandparents generation.  
    I have great respect for Kareem Abdul-Jabbar who was brave to change his name in a time when that was radical.  Great player and man of intelligence.  In his day he was owned by men like Don Sterling who was a typical white wealthy man using his money and power over all around him both male and female.

    •  I'm not sure (0+ / 0-)

      Donald Sterling is older, but he wasn't even born when Walter Winchell began his career with the New York Evening Graphic, spreading whatever gossip about the rich and famous that it could get its hands on.  

      Private scandal was always public entertainment in the 19th century, too.  

  •  I've always liked Kareem. He usually tells it (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Words In Action

    like it is, although he can be a bit inconsistent, like we all can be.  I think it's a good contribution to the debate.  

    "Fragmented and confused, we have no plan to combat any of this, but are looking to be saved by the very architects of our ruination."

    by BigAlinWashSt on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 08:20:19 AM PDT

  •  I both agree and disagree with Kareem on this (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mikey, doroma

    Yes, Sterling's past racist actions were known, and he should have been drummed out of the league a long time ago.  So why only get upset now?  Actually, people were upset then too.  But the reason people got so upset this time is threefold, I think:

    1. Because it directly relates to basketball and so there is an imperative for the NBA to act.  And of course there are millions of NBA fans who will be listening to this story as well, and of the importance of blacks to the sport and to the league.  This wasn't a rant about some random black guy Sterling didn't like.  This was about Magic Johnson: one of the most well-known, beloved, and successful black men in the world.

    2. Release of private communications by the individual it was sent to is far, far different than the government spying on you.  It's pretty far-fetched to try to equate the two in any meaningful way, and thus expect us to get upset about one just because we don't like the other.

    3. We have gotten to the point where there is a strong, kneejerk reaction against racist views and actions.  Some see this as good, others as bad.  Regardless of which way you see it, it's there and stronger than ever.

  •  I disagree with him mostly. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    doroma

    Although I was pretty put off by the "solidarity" the Heat decided to pull last night.  Complete B.S.  Labron James can't handle someone else getting the spotlight during the playoffs so they had to be cute.

    The game tonight will be interesting.  Will they drape over the sponsors logos?  Will the Clippers players sharpie over the logo?  Will the fans show up?  Or will everything go back to normal?

  •  The Right to private, extremist views? (5+ / 0-)

    We know we have the right to hold any extremist or conventional prejudicial view we want:  Do we have the right to express our views in private, without being punished for them? Once these "views" are made public, can people vote with their money, or sponsorships to pull their support from us...of course. But, to "be punished" for privately expressing our views? I don't like that one little bit.  How many times have I told my friends, in private conversations, what I think of conservatives & what I would like to see happen to them? I have the right to hold those views and to express them in private...without punishment. IMHO

    This whole world's wild at heart and weird on top....Lula

    by anninla on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 08:26:21 AM PDT

    •  Absolutely (0+ / 0-)

      The right to privacy is one of the key rights under the constitution. This is wrong to release a private record, regardless of the contents, without permission.

      •  [citation needed] (4+ / 0-)

        There are many aspects of the Constitution that keep the government out of your private affairs.  I am not aware of any provisions protecting individuals from the gossip of their exes.

        •  OK, so you're on record as favoring revenge porn (0+ / 0-)

          Not a position I would take, but we all gotta do what we find important.

          You in the revenge porn industry by chance? Good money there I hear...

          •  You know, the fact that you have to resort (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            soundchaser, orestes1963

            to equating this with revenge porn is good evidence of how weak your argument is.

            Suppose a man hits his wife - in the privacy of their home.  Obviously he expects that this will be just his own business - after all, they have a relationship and she "owes" him his privacy.  Are you going to be all outraged that she violated his privacy when she calls the cops?

            There are limits to privacy. And one of those limits is when you share your private thoughts with another person.

            •  There is a fundamental difference between (3+ / 0-)

              releasing information that proves someone broke the law and releasing information that someone said something horrible. Legally, this is nearly identical to revenge porn. There was the exact same expectation of privacy as when someone sends a naked picture of themself to a lover.

              There are limits to privacy. And one of those limits is when you share your private thoughts with another person.
              So it's cool to go through your mail to see what you've said? Because what you're talking about is not that I can tell people if you've said something. What you're talking about is that I can record you or whatever and because of that release information on you. Or, if we were in a relationship I could get photos of you and release them without your consent.

              And let me be clear, I don't think the girlfriend did anything horrible, and I'm glad she did what she did, but you seem to be throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

              No War but Class War

              by AoT on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 10:56:42 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  So we're going to limit the right of a person (0+ / 0-)

                in a relationship to share information that involves illegal behavior?

                What if my boyfriend screams at his kids incessantly and calls them names?  It's not illegal.  Do I have an obligation to not tell anyone about it?  Would it violate his right to privacy if I call social services on him?

                What if I lean that my politician boyfriend is claiming to support some particular issue and will vote a certain way if elected, but he's told me that he plans to do the opposite?  Would it be outrageous for me to tell his constituents?

                No, it's not cool to go through my mail BECAUSE THAT'S ILLEGAL.  But if I chose to show you my mail, then you have the right to share what you saw in my mail with whomever you chose.  Once I share information with you, it's your information and you get to do with it what you want.  

                And no, you can't get naked photos of me without my consent if we're in a relationship  BECAUSE ThAT'S ILLEGAL.  

                The fact of the matter is - when you say something, you do not have any right to have that statement not be repeated by the person to whom you said it.  You just don't.  Whether you want them to not repeat it or not.  Once you've shared information, it's theirs.  They get to do what they want with it.

                •  I literally just said the opposite of that (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  churchylafemme, Words In Action

                  You are conflating not telling people about something and releasing a recording, which are two entirely different things. You can tell people anything you want. What we're talking about here is sharing a recording.

                  No, it's not cool to go through my mail BECAUSE THAT'S ILLEGAL.
                  Why make it illegal if, as you've said, there is no expectation of privacy when you communicate? Why not make everything legal if there's no expectation of privacy? It's only illegal to protect our privacy, not for any other reason.
                  And no, you can't get naked photos of me without my consent if we're in a relationship  BECAUSE ThAT'S ILLEGAL.
                  I said they would be released without your consent, not that they would be taken without your consent.

                  No War but Class War

                  by AoT on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 11:22:30 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  How does releasing a recording make a (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    raspberryberet

                    difference to anything, other than it's no longer a he said/she said?  Now, he can't accuse her of lying.  Otherwise - no difference to anything.

                    •  Do you really think this would be in the news (0+ / 0-)

                      at all if she had simply said that he was racist?

                      No way. No one would believe her.

                      That's one of the reasons why I'm glad she released the recording.

                      As far as I'm concerned there is a fundamental right to privacy and we need laws that protect people's privacy. And there are distinct negative implications in the legal sense.

                      No War but Class War

                      by AoT on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 04:49:35 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                  •  Let's see if I can explain this more clearly. (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    AoT

                    The reason it's illegal for you to go through my mail is because my mail is private - as long as I chose to keep it private.  However, once I make a decision to share that mail with you, the knowledge of what that mail contains belongs to you to do with as you please.  If I want it to be private, I have the responsibilty of keeping it private by not sharing it with you.  Once I've shared it, I've lost that right.

                    Once he chose to share his thoughts with his girlfriend, that knowledge belonged to her to do with as she pleased.  It was no longer a private matter to him.  

                    If he'd written those words in a letter to her, it would have been illegal for a third party to open that letter and read it (just as it would have been illegal for a third party to record the conversation).  However, when she opened the letter, she would have had the right to let anyone she wanted read it.  He would have no right to control what was done with it once she received it, right?  Why should his spoken word have any different right of being kept hidden than a written word would have?  

                    Seems to me the furor over the recording aspect of it all is simply a fear people have of being unable to deny something they've said after they realize they shouldn't have said it.  Maybe things are said easier than they're written, so people say more foolish things than they write.  But bottom line is, however it's said, once you've said it, it's no longer private unless it's to a doctor, a lawyer, or a therapist.

                  •  Why is this so difficult? (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    gustynpip

                    Opening someone's mail is a violation of privacy because it requires an invasion (ie, opening the envelope), in the same way that entering a person's home without invitation is a violation of privacy (among other things).  If I give you permission to open my mail and read it, I no longer have an expectation of privacy for the obvious reason.  There is no expectation of privacy in a conversation because you have shared the contents with another person.  

                    As for this nude pictures canard, if you consent to having the photo taken, you have relinquished your privacy rights.  (There may be legal protections prohibiting the other party from deriving commercial benefit from the photo, but not much else unless the laws are changed.)  We may condemn the morality of releasing the photos, but the legal system does not have the resources to litigate personal regrets.  Everyone knows that if they create an embarrassing picture that could eventually come back to haunt them.  C'est la guerre.

            •  Hitting someone is different (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              churchylafemme

              than having an opinion.  What an absolutely idiotic analogy.

              You apparently are firmly of the belief that a THOUGHT CRIME is the same thing as an ACTUAL CRIME. That thinking a bad thought is the same as doing an bad act.

              So thinking that you would like to burn a house down is the same as burning a house down? So writing "Lolita" is the same as raping a 12 year old?

              That is and has never been true. We are free to think whatever we wish.

              And, yes, revenge porn is the EXACT analogy. Just because you don't want to be on the side of the revenge porno perps (which you are, BTW), does not take away from the truth of the analogy. It's an uncomfortable place to be, but that's where you are - pro-revenge porn, anti-privacy.

              Privacy means that our PRIVATE actions, including the taping of our pictures of our naked selves or saying hateful things, remain private.

              Why you folks who hate the rights of others continue to say these hateful things about the most fundamental rights in our constitution amazes me. The right to privacy is not ended when we have a bad idea or thought.

              In 1978, the ACLU defended the rights of the American Nazi Party to march in Skokie, IL. You would have been stopping them, even though in America you have the right to a hateful and bad thought.

              There are many countries where the thoughts are criminalized. Should we do that here? I say not, but you are in favor.

              The right to privacy is the foundation of reproductive rights. End the right to privacy, end choice, end contraception. But you bluenosed anti-privacy folks are heading there, full throttle.

              •  The words "idiotic analogy" was just written (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                terrybuck

                by the guy who made an analogy between racist comments and naked photos.  Irony is alive and well.

                For all your trumpeted support of the right to privacy, you don't have a clue what it is, even.  

                We're not talking his thoughts here, so your silly arguments about making thoughts criminal are just that - silly.

                We're talking here with information that he voluntarily chose to share with another person.  Once he shared that information, that information was no longer private and instead belonged to the person to whom he gave it.  And she had the right to do what she wanted with it.

                •  You fulminate against my analogy (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  churchylafemme

                  but have not yet made a convincing argument as to why it is wrong. In CA, there are laws against revenge porn. You cannot steal an image or other personal information, including a voice, and do something that the originator did not want you to do.

                  Here is Time's version:

                  "California enacted a new law against “revenge” porn, sometimes called “involuntary” porn. The law says it is “disorderly conduct” for a defendant to take intimate and confidential recordings, such as photos or videos, and then distribute them to intentionally cause serious emotional distress to the victim."

                  So apparently you are totally confused and absolutely wrong about this. I'll take that apology immediately.

          •  OK, so you're on record as favoring straw men... (0+ / 0-)

            …and lying. Good job.

        •  The fact that the constitution only covers (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          WorkerInUSA, churchylafemme

          what the government is or is not to do is a result of the fact that it is a document specifically about the government. The fact that it only restricts the government's actions is because it only applies to the government. To say that we only have a right to privacy when it comes to the government is absurd, and would mean that we should throw out all the laws we have on the books regarding how corporations treat our private information. Let's just get rid of HIPAA, it doesn't cover just the government's control of information so it can't be about privacy, right?

          Taping someone without their consent is not just gossiping about an ex. And it certainly is illegal in a number of states. I don't know enough about this situation to say whether it was illegal, probably not or it would have been brought up already. Either way, whether or not it was a legal violation of his right to privacy it was definitely a violation of his privacy.

          This was not a case where his ex told people something he said or did, it's a case where his ex recorded him without his consent. Huge difference.

          No War but Class War

          by AoT on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 08:57:07 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  And even if the recording was made (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            churchylafemme

            with his consent, the consent is also required to RELEASE the recording.

            Privacy is a hugely important expectation. We do not expect to be tapes in the bathroom. Americans are shocked in England that even public spaces have cameras (which they should not be surprised at).

            What amazes me is that many here are vigorous proponents of OUTING this guy. This is the absolute worst position. Liberals should defend the privacy of even bad persons.  

            •  No, his consent is not required to (0+ / 0-)

              release the recording.

              Most states permit the recording of any conversation to which you're a party.  And once recorded, you get to do any damn thing you want with that recording - including using it in a court of law or selling it to a newspaper.

              You might not like that fact, but please try to stick at least somewhat close to real facts when expressing your outrage over the fact that voluntary statements made by a racist are now a matter of public knowledge.

  •  Y'know... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    WorkerInUSA, AoT

    Mr. Abdul-Jabbar has a point.

  •  Jabbar makes another point (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    duhban

    that is worth noting.  What drives this story, and many of the other racism stories, is not racism but cable news needs.  Cable needs another story so they grab it.  Why don't we go after the real bases of racism, the housing discrimination of Sterling or a thousand other tiny stories?  Because they don't play.  The story of racism in the US is not a simple story.  It's not good guy vs bad guy.  It's more complex.  

    Take the oft repeated charge of racism when a black man comes into a room and the women hold their purses closer.  This is hurtful to the black man, being classed with people he doesn't even know who may have committed crimes against these women.  The woman's action is wrong... but it may be understandable.  

    Take it from the woman's point of view, perhaps she has been a victim of black crime, had her purse snatched, or been robbed or worse.  Perhaps she has only heard from her friends about that.  Holding the purse close in that situation is, for her, an instinctual reaction.  Is that reaction a sign of racism, or simple instinctual concern for her safety?  

    How to change that?  She needs more positive interactions with young black men.  And the man who is upset needs more interactions with white women like her to understand why she does it.  In short we need to get out of our selves and understand the other.  Like Obama said in his race speech, we need to talk about race, white to black and black to white.

    But we don't and the news media, serving it's masters, its ratings, doesn't serve up that kind of story.  It serves up a story that increases anger.  Oh those horrible racists.  Oh, those horrible minorities.  We're people, damn it, not the horribles of horribles.  Even Donald Sterling.  To the extent we make people objects of hate for their shortcomings, we perpetuate the hate.  (Okay, maybe Sterling is a bridge to far, but still. )

  •  In case it already hasn't been mentioned.... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    doroma, Words In Action

    ....according to the bylaws of the NBA, 3/4 of the owners can vote to oust another owner from a team.  You can count Michael Jordan as being Owner #1.... :)

  •  Always a thoughtful and wise man (0+ / 0-)

    I've loved Kareem since he was Lew Alcindor.

    "Do you realize that fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous Communist plot we have ever had to face?" - General Jack D. Ripper

    by wilder5121 on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 09:50:25 AM PDT

  •  The actions of Donald Sterling have been known in (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    churchylafemme, raspberryberet

    LA for quite some time and the Clippers have, until very recently, been the worst franchise in the NBA, maybe in all of professional sport. I agree with Kareem - this is tantamount to announcing that the Republican Party is the Party of wealth and privilege. Only a shocking revelation to those not paying attention.

    The breach of personal ethics by his girlfriend is a betrayal. Sterling may have asked her to record their conversations; however, I'm pretty sure he didn't ask her to publish them...

    Kareem has nailed the real issue, the willingness of America to buy whatever media line is out this week, especially when we are celebrating the myth of a "post racial America." The talking point which is essentially a Republican dog whistle (about "you know who" in the White House) is used to justify rolling back every gain that the Civil Rights movement has ever made.

    This whole episode is just another tawdry reminder that we don't live in a society with any consciousness of its own culture or history... It is pathetic...

    "Intelligence is quickness in seeing things as they are..." George Santayana

    by KJG52 on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 09:53:28 AM PDT

  •  I'm not sure it's a fact (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Catte Nappe

    that these recordings were made in secret.

    Money doesn't talk it swears.

    by Coss on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 09:57:07 AM PDT

    •  regardless of that (0+ / 0-)

      he would still have to consent to the recording being released.

      Der Weg ist das Ziel

      by duhban on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 10:09:39 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Maybe legally. (0+ / 0-)

        But he isn't being charged with a crime. She claims to have hundreds of hours of these recordings. Anyone think there isn't much worse than what we've heard?

        The NBA has no choice but to go nuclear on this guy. The idea that they shouldn't do anything now because they didn't do something prior, is pretty ludicrous.

        Players, coaches, and fans aren't going to allow the NBA to do nothing and Silver can't possibly stand behind this sociopath now that everyone has heard his 18th century views on women and Black people.

        Money doesn't talk it swears.

        by Coss on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 10:21:25 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I'm mostly staying out of the matter (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          AoT

          because I am conflicted. I consider Kareem's point but I'm not sure how much it should matter. Than again I never was all that outraged by the NSA 'revelations' and am not even sure they constitute spying.

          I only wanted to point out that even if you're right there's no way he gave permission to release these recordings and as such Kareem's point still stands.

          Der Weg ist das Ziel

          by duhban on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 10:35:50 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  I'm not sure that's true (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        churchylafemme, duhban

        He would definitely have to consent if they were used in a movie or some commercial endeavor, but I'd bet that it varies from state to state as to whether you can release these tapes to the public without his consent. I am not a lawyer though ad I could be completely wrong on that. I wish more of the local lawyers were here to comment on this aspect of it.

        No War but Class War

        by AoT on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 10:46:17 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Kareem's take is right on the money. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    churchylafemme, Words In Action

    And I have no doubt that the woman will be a celebrity as a result of this whole sordid matter.

    If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

    by HairyTrueMan on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 10:23:03 AM PDT

  •  KAJ ftw! (0+ / 0-)

    I loved watching Kareem play, the age of epic bball - he was the KING of the Hook..  Kareem's activism during his playing years obviously continues off the court.   Glad he said what he did.  Really - why weren't we all outraged before now?  (Mostly because all of this didn't hit the fan in a 'national' way like this recording did).  

    It's just another 'Paula Dean' moment in my eyes, until people actually 'care' for one another and address their own inner nature, inner 'me'..  It's only 'outrage' when 'it' finally hits the public fan and you can't run away from it...    Shouldn't take a national public outing like this, to see the right thing done and poor actions dealt with in the appropriate manner..  I wonder if it really will once this all calms down with the 'next' major news story..  Likely all the tornados from yesterday and today's storm will drown it out on the news...

    Politics is like driving. To go backward put it in R. To go forward put it in D. - GMTA

    by JayyVee on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 10:36:02 AM PDT

  •  I think he is looking at it from a very mature (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    AoT, Words In Action

    point of view.

    1. Sterling has always been known to be a racist and given all the ways his racism has hurt people in the past, he finds this more salacious straw that broke the camels back, a little silly. Hes not saying it isn't bad, but that 'this is what made you finally decide this guy is a creep?' is what bothers him.

    2. Being a know racist and having a partially AA GF who then secretly record his racism left him with a bad taste in his mouth. He is not claim she is as bad as him, but that the whole thing is beyond his own ethical standards.

    The guy is a creep and the GF must of known it, so she doesn't come out of it looking all that clean.

    To me the fact he even had a problem with Magic, a class act all the way, shows his racism is not some off hand type but something in his core. Something so obvious Kareem was shocked this was the final straw.

     

    Join the DeRevolution: We are not trying to take the country, we are trying to take the country back. Get the money out of politics with public financed campaigns so 'Of the People, By the People and For the People' rings true again.

    by fToRrEeEsSt on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 10:58:40 AM PDT

  •  I think that the girlfriend (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Words In Action

    committed a felony.  She should go thru the criminal process for what she did.

    But I'm not sorry that she did it.

    However there are consequences for her actions as well.  Kareem is right about that part of it and so is Mark Cuban when he said that it's a slippery slope to strip an owner based on illegally obtained information.

    As least from a strictly legal perspective.

    From a societal and moral perspective, the man should lose the team.  His comments have struck the 3rd rail issue of race relations in this country, not to mention the fact that he has created a hostile work environment for the Clippers organization.

    Not to mention that he directly stated that one of the owners of the Dodgers organization, and implied that one of the owners of the Hornets organization as well as the President of the United States wasn't welcome to attend his team's games.

    Kareem is also right that it shouldn't have taken a golddigger (and I'm sorry, but that is what she is, let's be real about it) to illegally obtain a recording to confirm just how incredibly racist this guy is to have taken action against him years ago when it was evident that there were actionable items that demonstrated his discriminatory practices against African Americans and Hispanics.

    •  No felony if this is true (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      AoT, doroma
      Donald Sterling was AWARE he was being taped during the conversation that was posted on TMZ
      Sports, in which the L.A. Clippers owner went on a racial rant ... so claims the woman who taped him.

      A source connected with V. Stiviano tells TMZ Sports ... the full conversation lasted approximately 1 hour.  We're told Stiviano insists it was clear to Sterling at the beginning of the conversation he was being recorded.
      What's more ... our sources say Stiviano routinely recorded her conversations with Sterling as HIS "archivist."  And what's more ... she would regularly play the tapes back to him because he would often forget what he had said.

      http://www.tmz.com/...

      “Texas is a so-called red state, but you’ve got 10 million Democrats here in Texas. And …, there are a whole lot of people here in Texas who need us, and who need us to fight for them.” President Obama

      by Catte Nappe on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 11:09:31 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Doesn't matter, legally speaking, (0+ / 0-)

        that the conversations were being recorded for that personal reason and not for public consumption?

        No viable presumption of privacy in effect?

        I've never left a blank space on a ballot... but I will not vote for someone [who vows] to spy on me. I will not do it. - dclawyer06

        Trust, but verify. - Reagan
        Vote, but Occupy. - commonmass

        by Words In Action on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 04:39:20 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  So far as I understand the laws (0+ / 0-)

          Which admittedly is not much...

          The law typically outlines whether one party, or both, need to be aware of the recording activity. None of them seem to address who will ultimately use the recording for what purpose.

          “Texas is a so-called red state, but you’ve got 10 million Democrats here in Texas. And …, there are a whole lot of people here in Texas who need us, and who need us to fight for them.” President Obama

          by Catte Nappe on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 05:05:48 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Praise Be! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    churchylafemme, Words In Action

    I have to say Kareem is so right on every point.  I wasn't aware of Sterling's previous legal/discriminatory woes, but I can almost guarantee you that the NBA owners and commish knew!  And taping a private conversation and releasing it to the media sounds like someone has an ulterior motive.  

  •  By far (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Words In Action

    the deepest and most articulate assessment of this event.

  •  Prospective? (0+ / 0-)

    Really? C'mon.

  •  Why should this surprise anyone? (0+ / 0-)

    I, for one, am not surprised by the highly intelligent and thoughtful response by Kareem Abdul Jabbar.  He has always been one to go beyond the surface of any issue and bring forth more than just the obvious.  It should be disturbing that the "girl friend," who hasn't exactly covered herself in glory, should show herself as base and crass as Sterling.  The real victims of this piece are the employees of Sterling's vast corporate empire, including the players, coaches and staff of the LA Clippers as well as our society.

  •  people don't understand (3+ / 0-)

    or care about lawsuits, lawyers, liars, they are all the same, unless there is something titillating.  Fair Housing Act, not going to light up the local media let alone the national media and the average person will not hear about it.

    But an old man,hot girlfriends, and tapes, that gets media attention.  It gets it in a way the NBA can't ignore.

    It takes some serious effort to move mountains.  And this mountain finally moved. So yes we should all be more attuned to local bigots.

    Even this site, progressive oriented, liberal politics, and too many people don't think racism is serious and ongoing.   That it is affecting people in negative ways everyday.

    Wake up call.   Maybe someone will change their mind and this will do a world of good.

  •  I always wondered about the privacy angle (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    churchylafemme, Words In Action

    and why there was pretty much no reporting on it.  In some states it's illegal, I'm told, to record conversations without consent.  (Obviously a totally separate issue from the content of the conversation.)

  •  disingenuous (0+ / 0-)

    Most people expressing outrage did not know about all of the so called public information Kareem referenced. Information that is available with a bit of digging is not the same as info available via wide viral disbursement.

    •  Yeah, I think he was directing that (0+ / 0-)

      responsibility on all the people in and around "the game" that knew, not you or me.

      I've never left a blank space on a ballot... but I will not vote for someone [who vows] to spy on me. I will not do it. - dclawyer06

      Trust, but verify. - Reagan
      Vote, but Occupy. - commonmass

      by Words In Action on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 04:42:20 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Did we really call the NSA to task? (0+ / 0-)

    Has the NSA changed anything? Are there any new laws or Congressional investigations?

  •  KAJ was right about this part... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Words In Action
    "So, if we’re all going to be outraged, let’s be outraged that we weren’t more outraged when his racism was first evident.">

    That's right.  It got swept under the rug when it was more sweepable.  Now it's not and we're supposed to act surprised.  It doesn't let the bastard off the hook.  It just suggests a lot of his critics are johnny-come-lately's jumping on the bandwagon that they ignored the first time.

  •  Privacy (0+ / 0-)

    There is a HUGE difference between a government agency taping private citizens without their knowledge and private citizens doing the same thing.  That difference is that the government agency potentially has police power while the average private citizen does not.

    Conversations between Sterling and his girlfriend are NOT legally protected.  They do not enjoy the same legal protection as conversations between Sterling and his wife, or between Sterling and his lawyer.

    WHY this woman did what she did was sleazy and greedy... she was looking out for her own interests.  Am I outraged by that?  To a certain extent, sure... but not anywhere close to how mad I am that Sterling's racist and bigoted attitudes were officially tolerated for as long as they have been.

    WHAT this woman did is not illegal... and while I might think less of her because of her motivations, I cannot condemn her as a criminal.  Nor can I ignore her recordings or give Sterling a "pass" because I don't like why or how the recordings were made.

    •  Yeah, don't think he suggested giving (0+ / 0-)

      Stirling a pass -- he is, in fact, thrilled with the results. He was just saying he didn't like the recording as the mechanism, especially since it was no secret to everyone in and around the game, which, according to the fans in this thread, it was.

      I've never left a blank space on a ballot... but I will not vote for someone [who vows] to spy on me. I will not do it. - dclawyer06

      Trust, but verify. - Reagan
      Vote, but Occupy. - commonmass

      by Words In Action on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 04:45:55 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Why is someone with this kind of insight (0+ / 0-)

    not holding public office?  The Teabagger heads would not just explode, they'd achieve critical mass.

    I'll believe corporations are people when one comes home from Afghanistan in a body bag.

    by mojo11 on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 05:01:03 PM PDT

  •  But it's even something more than Kareem mentioned (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    churchylafemme

    As Frank Bruni in the times wrote today, “The Los Angeles chapter of the N.A.A.C.P. was about to bestow upon Sterling a lifetime achievement award, which would have been his third honor from the N.A.A.C.P. over recent years.”

    And why Sterling? Because he's paid for the complacency and silence of those around him - even the organizations who should be the most publicly vocal critics. Instead, they too have been bought off.

    So what we really have here is another example of our larger problem in America. The outright ownership, not just of our national treasure, but of our national consciousness and simple sense of decency and fairness. Donald Sterling, Woody Johnson, Dan Snyder and other billionaire sports franchise owners are the Koch brothers of entertainment and too few of us are willing to stop buying tickets and turn off our TVs.

  •  Here's the Problem (0+ / 0-)

    No matter how salient the points made here, the grammar, spelling, and word usage is so horrendous that no one trying to decide will ever agree with this author. Seriously, have somebody check your work before it is posted. If I had this associated with my name I would be humiliated.

  •  He had asked his girlfriend to record everything (0+ / 0-)

    He said. He wanted to have the tapes to look back on and remember what he had said. Seems to me that if you ask someone to record you,  you should act accordingly, and not be surprised when the stupid shit you say is released to the media.

    Tired of living in a "RED" state... Colorado here I come!!

    by deereigna on Wed Apr 30, 2014 at 12:38:11 PM PDT

  •  As far as I am concerned (0+ / 0-)

    if Sterling doesn't sell the team within two months then those not liking the situation should boycott all NBA games until the sale is complete. That should spur the rest of the owners to act in their financial benefit.

    No country can be both ignorant and free - Thomas Jefferson

    by fjb on Wed Apr 30, 2014 at 08:17:45 PM PDT

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