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People rally in support of a $15 minimum wage at Seattle Central Community College in Washington March 15, 2014. Voters in SeaTac, Washington recently passed a ballot initiative for $15 minimum wage.  REUTERS/Jason Redmond
The filibuster is effectively dead. There's no reason Democrats couldn't kill it for legislation the way they killed it for judicial and executive nominations. But in this case, it's actually working in the Democrat's favor. How? Consider the current status of the minimum wage debate:
  • There won't be a minimum wage increase until Democrats retake the House.
  • A minimum wage increase is incredibly popular, garnering strong support even among Republicans.
  • Every time Republicans vote against increasing the minimum wage, Democrats have a new cudgel to use against them heading into November. It's free ammo!

So perversely, losing yesterday's minimum wage Senate vote was a good thing. This way, Senate Democrats can keep beating the shit out of Republicans over the issue, and they certainly plan on it.

“If we don’t succeed this time … we will bring this bill to the floor again and again and again,” Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-NY) said before the vote. “And just like unemployment insurance, sooner or later we will get it done.”
Remember, Senate Republicans could allow an up or down vote, vote against it, let Democrats pass it on a simple majority vote, then let the House do the dirty work of killing it. Instead, they feel compelled to use the filibuster to block even debate. Weird. And a godsend to Democrats.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Nice to know both parties are playing politics (14+ / 0-)

    with people's lives.  Too bad the Dems do it through passivity and gutlessness.

    The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. Bertrand Russell

    by accumbens on Thu May 01, 2014 at 07:37:29 AM PDT

  •  the filibuster doesn't look dead to me, (8+ / 0-)

    effectively or otherwise, and your third bullet point says it all: If the Democratic Leadership were really interested in a minimum wage increase, one might have expected activity to this effect back when Our Party occupied the WH and both houses of Congress.  

    But really, this is all about the cudgel, nothing more.

    Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

    by corvo on Thu May 01, 2014 at 07:38:00 AM PDT

  •  make them vote once a week. It'll be the (14+ / 0-)

    democratic answer to the 50 House Obamacare repeal votes.

    •  And just as meaningful? nt (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Aquarius40, Tool, TexasTom

      "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."........ "The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." (yeah, same guy.)

      by sidnora on Thu May 01, 2014 at 07:52:45 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I think it would be just as meaningful (7+ / 0-)

        as it would be red meat for the base. Republicans only vote to repeal the ACA because they believe it will motivate their base to donate and vote. If we proposed 15$ an hour and voted on it 50 times in the Senate (even if it was dead on arrival in the House) then we would have a major case to make to voters that they need to get out and vote. Our enthusiasm gap would shrink significantly.  

        “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it.” George Orwell

        by Tool on Thu May 01, 2014 at 08:14:28 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Certainly, (0+ / 0-)

          it's better for them to be holding symbolic votes on bills we support than not holding the votes because they know the GOP will block it anyway. It's good politics, yes.

          But it gets pretty old when what I'd really like to see is some actual governance taking place. And taking a realistic look at our prospects in the midterms, I don't see any hope for a more productive Congress in the foreseeable future. Just paralysis, as far as the eye can see.

          Sorry, I'm under the weather, so maybe my political outlook is, too.

          "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."........ "The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." (yeah, same guy.)

          by sidnora on Thu May 01, 2014 at 09:17:24 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  perhaps actually delivering (0+ / 0-)

          a minimum wage would but I find that peoples bs. meters are on full tilt these days. Letting the Bush tax cuts remain still sticks in peoples craws. Using the minimum wage as a incentive to voters when the senate still has this farce of a filibuster procedural rule in place for no damn good reason somehow seems to be cart before the horse politically. How many chips like extended unemployment benefits have the Dems used to sweeten the pot and then turned around and bartered them away? The senate has a big problem as their credibility is nil.

          The kabuki just doesn't move me no more. All that dry powder flying around gets in the way of seeing any movement forward. The time has come for the senate Dems to stand and deliver something that isn't a victory for compromise and to start obstructing the minority the Republicans. Cart before the horse unhinged from reality electoral politicking isn't going to get any one enthusiastic. If it does and we win will the poor get a wage hike that is liveable? Or will they just keep dangling this carrot election after election?          

      •  This is how you bring your voters to the polls (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Matt Z, DiesIrae

        If you can't win on policy, you leverage your political losses in order to stoke the anger of your base against the opposition, so that you can win on policy in the next Congress.  

        Shirley Chisholm was right. Our Republic is in deep trouble.

        by Big River Bandido on Thu May 01, 2014 at 09:23:12 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  more meaningful -- dems can keep the (0+ / 0-)

        Senate and take the House in 2014, and pass minimum wage legislation by Jan 2015.   Rs can't repeal Obamacare until at least 2017.

        •  If you believe (0+ / 0-)

          that we can take the House this fall, I've got bridge I'd like to sell you. I live in Brooklyn.

          Nothing would make me happier. I am making donations where I think they will have the most effect and have chosen the campaign I plan to volunteer for this fall. But if we accomplish more than hanging on to the Senate and picking up a very few seats in the House, I will happily buy you a cup of coffee and a nice piece of pie. Flavor of your choice.

          "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."........ "The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." (yeah, same guy.)

          by sidnora on Thu May 01, 2014 at 07:00:48 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  There is a law of diminishing returns. Doing (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mjd in florida, highacidity, TexasTom

      this weekly would only point out to the voters that it is a partisan sham.   Doing it, let us say, up to half a dozen times before the election is much less obvious.  People are not stupid.  They don't like to be treated as such.  The House GOP has done so by all the votes on Obamacare repeal.  We need to be more judicious in how we use this admittedly partisan tool.

      I’ve said before, I will always work with anyone who is willing to make this law work even better. But the debate over repealing this law is over. The Affordable Care Act is here to stay. -- President Barack Obama

      by Its the Supreme Court Stupid on Thu May 01, 2014 at 08:26:51 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Actually I think most are stupid in the sense (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        highacidity, No Exit

        that are not paying attention and even if they hear of it they quickly forget.

        They could alternate with a couple of other popular bills with wildly popular support.

        Show the public what they could be having if they voted for more Democrats...

        I've never left a blank space on a ballot... but I will not vote for someone [who vows] to spy on me. I will not do it. - dclawyer06

        Trust, but verify. - Reagan
        Vote, but Occupy. - commonmass

        by Words In Action on Thu May 01, 2014 at 08:53:22 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Disagree (0+ / 0-)

        Average voters don't really pay attention to inside baseball.  The reason voters clearly understand the Republican position is that Republicans are not afraid to make their political points.  

        Can't be subtle about these things, or the message really doesn't get across.  

        Shirley Chisholm was right. Our Republic is in deep trouble.

        by Big River Bandido on Thu May 01, 2014 at 09:24:45 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  don't agree. this election must be (0+ / 0-)

        about economic inequality and Republican defense of the rich.

  •  can't do anything (16+ / 0-)

    about the gop blocking good legislation. other than reminding voters that the gop blocks good legislation. again and again and again.

    and more importantly, democrats can make the case for democrats.

    The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

    by Laurence Lewis on Thu May 01, 2014 at 07:40:53 AM PDT

  •  Likely so, yes. But you have a major typo (18+ / 0-)

    in your first para: it's potentially working in the Dems' favor, not the GOP's.
    Let's hope the Dem leadership follows through.

    Support Small Business: Shop Kos Katalogue If you'd like to join the Motor City Kossacks, send me a Kosmail.

    by peregrine kate on Thu May 01, 2014 at 07:41:14 AM PDT

    •  Or… (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SisTwo, JayC, peregrine kate

      Insert "not" before "working in the GOP's favor."

      Either way. I had to go over it about three times to make sure I wasn't missing some hidden meaning, because Markos is smart. However (and I say this in the most respectful of interpretations), he's ESL. I'm married to an ESL, and although she's very, very smart—and her English is superb—every once in a while, she says something (in English) that has a decidedly Ukrainian construct and which renders her intended point mutilated.

      However, the result is always hilarious, once I grasp what she meant. For example, she once meant to articulate an aphorism (which, along with idioms, are very difficult to master in any language, because they don't have a literal translation), "variety is the spice of life". In her version, spice is the variety of life. What's funny, is her construct actually works, in a way.

      She coined another one recently, which was a mashup of a couple of aphorisms and sent me to the texting machine in convulsions—"if donkeys were horses, then pigs would fly". The kids have grown up exposed to many literal glitches like these and appreciate them as much as  I do.

      LRod—UID 238035
      ZJX, ORD, ZAU retired
      My ATC site
      My Norm's Tools site

      by exatc on Thu May 01, 2014 at 08:04:55 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Yea, that had me scratching my head, too (0+ / 0-)

      Perhaps it's a typo, but if so, I would have expected kos to have corrected it by now.

      "The smartest man in the room is not always right." -Richard Holbrooke

      by Demi Moaned on Thu May 01, 2014 at 08:59:32 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  People in the street (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    shaharazade, Tool, Words In Action

    There is no substitute for masses of people in the street, demanding change. Not tweeting, not texting, not petitioning. The people who would benefit from a wage hike need to be organized and they need to be in peoples faces, preventing business as usual until they get some relief. This is what an organized left wing would be doing. Labor could (and should) be providing that organization now. If labor could make itself relevant to the poorest, most powerless workers, they could become relevant again, real quick. Otherwise, they depend on winning in the millionaires debate club that is the senate.

  •  Hoist Meet Petard! (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    filby, anonevent, Zinman

    Not to mention reaping and sowing and other apposite metaphors.

    Minor query: Kos--In sentence 3, I think you may mean the opposite?

  •  I think you meant "working in the Dems' favor" (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    anonevent, Davidsfr, exatc, freakofsociety

    n/t

  •  yes. keep bringing it up. over and over. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    scott5js, METAL TREK, Words In Action

    the rethugs have been playing dirty for years.

    time for us to give them a taste of their own medicine.

    every adult is responsible for every child

    by ridemybike on Thu May 01, 2014 at 07:45:03 AM PDT

  •  Sounds like lemonade. (0+ / 0-)

    I've been waiting for the country to get tired of the blatant GOP bullshit for years.

    Our government is not yet small enough to drown in a bathtub. That doesn't mean it can't be waterboarded.

    by furrfu on Thu May 01, 2014 at 07:46:48 AM PDT

  •  Take the House? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Words In Action

    The Dems are looking over the abyss of losing the Senate.
    But it is a good thing that KXL opponents can claim a moral victory.

    KXL is so highly politicized and convoluted - but is it worth losing control of the Senate to the GOP? Nearly all of the Dem senators at risk signed a recent letter to Obama urging approval. It's not the only issue, but in GOP-leaning states that have significant energy industries, it is a major one. And, yes, a Republican Senate will have significant impacts beyond environmental issues - - like wages.

    I'll get back to you after Nov. 4th.

    •  PS - (0+ / 0-)

      Obama and Reid could craft a deal overnight which paired approval of KXL with an extension of unemployment benefits and increased minimum wage.

      Overnight.

      •  Tell me how you get to that vote count (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Aquarius40, DiesIrae, freakofsociety

        Who votes how.  Names.

        Both Houses.

        Which Republicans are going to vote to increase the minimum wage AND extend unemployment benefits in exchange for KXL?  

        This kind of hyperbole is best left to anonymous blogs and not to the actual process of negotiations.

        So, yes, I call your bluff, put your (named) cards on the table.  Overnight, you say?

        "Out of Many, One Nation." This is the great promise of these United States of America -9.75 -6.87

        by Uncle Moji on Thu May 01, 2014 at 08:08:06 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yeah, I Will - (0+ / 0-)

          But let me remind you that you don't have diddly-squat when it comes to what I will and won't do.

          Senate -

          2013 Vote - 62 to 37 in favor including 17 Dems.
          62 is more than enough for cloture.

          http://www.washingtonpost.com/...

          House -

          The House has voted many times in favor of Keystone.
          Most recently 241 to 175 on a partisan bill to circumvent presidential approval - - which is more partisan than any joint agreement would be. The House, by the way, does have a 233 to 199 GOP majority - in case you have forgotten.

          http://www.reuters.com/...

          <<<>>>

          Would such a compromise lose some GOp support - sure - but it would also gain significant Democratic support.  Bills such as this usually gain far more support than they lose because they provide positive campaign points while providing cover for any negatives - regardless of party or position.

          Thus, Republicans can claim they are jump-starting the economy while agreeing to unemployment and wage components which will not hurt them.  And Democrats can claim the unemployment and wage benefits without worrying about Keystone - which has majority support, anyhoo.

          •  You seem to think negotation is only about math (0+ / 0-)

            This is why you would be thrill to sit across a table from during a negotiation, we eat arrogant newbies like you up before breakfast.  

            You seem to fail to understand deal-making is in the detail.  You make claims based on generic broad assumptions without any actual specifics.  

            I asked for all the names for a reason.  And you won't give us all the names for a reason.  Because it would be ridiculously easy to pick apart your "overnight" deal based on your silly claims that YOU KNOW precisely how 535 individuals will vote on a proposal that does not exist.  So, I ask again, name names.  And I will pick them apart name by name.  And challenge your claim again.  "Overnight"? Did you say?  

            Again, it is clear you have never negotiated anything of serious import both representing and sitting across the table from a group with conflicting and competing interests.  It is actually a highly skilled profession.  It's why a lot of labor negotiators play poker to relax - because that sh*ts easier and the pot is never worth billions for you to lose if you make a mistake.

            I expected "diddly-squat" from you to prove your claim that a deal was there to be made "overnight" and you delivered.  Shakespeare says it best:

            ...a poor player that struts and frets his hour upon the stage. And then is heard no more: it is a tale. Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing.

            "Out of Many, One Nation." This is the great promise of these United States of America -9.75 -6.87

            by Uncle Moji on Thu May 01, 2014 at 10:59:50 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Do You Tell Everybody to "Fcuk Off"? (0+ / 0-)

              Or am I the focus of your affections?

              Did a quick scan of some of your comments -
              And I would surely question any negotiating skills you might have.

              Why don't you - in all your wisdom - tell me a better way to get the Republicans to agree to some sort of increase in the minimum wage and/or unemployment benefits?

              Maybe play old "Touched by an Angel" episodes until Boehner cries himself to death??

      •  which would lead to massive losses in the house (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        corvo, Zinman, Big River Bandido

        and senate if they approved keystone by demotivating the base. The climate and the drinking water for 5 million + united states citizens is not a bargaining chip. Especially for a min wage increase that is woefully inadequate and for a temporary extension of unemployment benefits that would expire and once again be used as a hostage chip.

        Extending the Bush (now Obama) tax cuts for 6 months of unemployment benefits netted the 1% billions upon billions and now the political class is unwilling to extend them further now that they have got what they wanted. Bad strategy.  

        “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it.” George Orwell

        by Tool on Thu May 01, 2014 at 08:08:23 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yeah - - (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          DiesIrae

          Because even among Dems, 49% support to 38% oppose.
          And Independents (It usually takes a few Ind voted to get elected.)
          61% support to 29% oppose.

          So, yeah, it would be devastating to Democrats to support Keystone.

          http://www.people-press.org/...

        •  Political tradeoffs (0+ / 0-)

          I think that the motivational value of passing the minimum wage increase would be far greater than the demotivational effect of approving KXL.  First, I suspect that more voters care strongly about the minimum wage than about the pipeline, but there's also the issue of where those voters are.  And I suspect that the voters who will be strongly motivated by KXL are mostly in heavily Democratic districts, anyway..

          So disregarding any arguments over the merits of the policies in question, I think that the political issue is that such a compromise would be more likely to lead to gains in the House than losses.

          If Democrats proclaim the the Earth is round and Republicans insist it is flat, we will shortly see a column in the Washington Post claiming the the earth is really a semi-circle.

          by TexasTom on Thu May 01, 2014 at 12:30:30 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Too much angst over losing the Senate. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      high uintas

      It could happen with the current economy.
      And -- Republicans are starting to realize thate "Repeal Obamacare" is a capital L Loser.

      But -- 5 seats is a lot to pick up and Republicans look pretty bad these days and the Senatorial math is no worse (or barely worse) than it was in 2012.

      LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

      by dinotrac on Thu May 01, 2014 at 08:04:21 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  And Harry Reid voted nay (6+ / 0-)

    It must be a procedural vote, to allow him to raise a motion in the future to reconsider.
    Corker (TN) is the only Republican I saw voting yea. Very much a party-line vote. See, there IS a difference between the 2 parties, no matter what Ralph Nader says.
    http://www.senate.gov/...

    Censorship is rogue government.

    by scott5js on Thu May 01, 2014 at 07:54:42 AM PDT

  •  Gosh! Some actual thinking going on! (5+ / 0-)

    Or maybe just perusing history.

    Absolutely.  It's what Democrats did to Republicans in the leadup to the 1934 midterms when Democrats won the Senate Supermajority needed to get cloture when it took 66 ayes.

    A jaded electorate doesn't want to hear promises.  They want to see action -- and losing efforts constitute action.

    It's a little bit like Thomas Edison's reply to  the question of whether he got discouraged after so many failures: No, I've learned 2,000 things that won't work.

    Go out and try to pass a bill.
    Go out and try to pass a bill.

    Instead of mouthing promises that many people won't believe, you are doing something that the other guys are blocking.

    The 1934 Democratic pitch?

    Get these guys out of our way so we can get all of this stuff through that we've been trying to do for you.

     

    LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

    by dinotrac on Thu May 01, 2014 at 07:57:50 AM PDT

  •  And this now is our issue to control (9+ / 0-)

    People who are bitching about "the weak Dems in the Senate" don't understand that we can ride this to the election.

    This will never pass in the House, we could let it be a flopping dead fish bill but we aren't and IMO that is a good thing.

    From now on it's "Republicans want you to be poor and want to give more breaks to the rich" Effective as an issue?I guess we will see come November.

    Minimum Wage
    ACA
    War on voting
    War on women
    War on people of color
    ect

    Some humans ain't human some people ain't kind. They lie through their teeth with their head up their behind. You open up their hearts and here's what you'll find - Some humans ain't human some people ain't kind. John Prine

    by high uintas on Thu May 01, 2014 at 07:58:17 AM PDT

  •  What would you say Kos to the dems deciding (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    corvo

    to go big and propose 15$ an hour instead of 10.10? If productivity had kept up with wages our min wage would be 22 an hour. 10.10 is a drop in the bucket and will soon not have the same buying power in a few years and it will be as if workers had no raise at all. If the republicans are going to be this extreme, all the time, what is the harm of asking for big bold ideas?

    If we really wanted to hammer this issue we would go for 15$ an hour and then compromise at 13.50 or something that would still keep people in poverty but at least they could feed themselves.

    We could possibly even take back the house if we give people a big enough reason to vote. Well that and rejecting the keystone pipeline..

    What do you think?

    “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it.” George Orwell

    by Tool on Thu May 01, 2014 at 08:02:55 AM PDT

    •  Hmm. (0+ / 0-)

      Not sure there would even be 50 votes in the Senate for an increase that big. Though I agree $15 an hour is better as a matter of policy, especially if phased in over multiple years and then indexed to a generous measure of inflation.

      •  15 an hour is 30k per year... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Words In Action

        That would be enough for people to start a life, pay down school loans, pay their mortgage, and generally start to reverse the widest gap in wealth and income inequality since the late 1880s.

        As a simple baseline calculation, you can assume 2 weeks of paid vacation per year. That leaves 50 working weeks, and if you work a typical 40 hours a week, then you have a total of 2,000 hours of work each year. In this case, you can quickly compute the hourly wage by dividing the annual salary by 2000. Your yearly salary of $30,000 is then equivalent to an average hourly wage of $15 per hour.
        Perhaps if it was phased in within 2 - 3 years and then indexed to inflation but I am very wary of incremental steps to address poverty. The reason we might not have 50 votes in the senate to pass 15$ an hour is because 100% of the senate are millionaires and have not in a long time or never been in poverty themselves and are so far removed from the plights of working Americans they have no idea what the circumstances are now.

        As well as they universally only respond to the desires of the wealthy. 10.10 an hour is a bandaid to fix a massive amputation. 15 an hour would be like finally getting that much needed medical procedure after putting it off right before it was to late and you were going to die.

        Since dems have no chance of this passing in the house the senate might as well go big and propose the most progressive thing possible and then the house could ride that to victory if we showed people that the united states government is not completely captured by the oligarchy class.  

        “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it.” George Orwell

        by Tool on Thu May 01, 2014 at 08:25:11 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Respectfully, (3+ / 0-)

          I think you're misreading the electorate on this:

          [T]he senate might as well go big and propose the most progressive thing possible and then the house could ride that to victory if we showed people that the united states government is not completely captured by the oligarchy class.
          This idea that there's a critical mass of people out there just waiting for someone to unapologetically articulate progressive ideals before they vote - I don't think that's true. There is no silent progressive majority. The mirror image fallacy on the Right is that there's a silent conservative majority, which isn't true either.

          As for $15 an hour - as we both know, there's not a ton of job loss when you increase the minimum wage by a little. There's some, but not half as much as the Republicans would have us fear. On the other hand, if the minimum wage were instantly doubled, that would have the potential to create an actual employment shock. That's why I suggest phasing it in slowly, say over six to eight years, a dollar a year - give companies time to adapt, and minimize any sudden shocks that could provoke a backlash. But I understand your position.

          •  The great depression teaches us (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            a2nite

            that there is a critical mass of people out there just waiting for someone to apologetically articulate progressive ideals before they vote. So did OWS. So did the election of a socialist in Seattle who campaigned expressly on 15$ an hour.  

            “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it.” George Orwell

            by Tool on Thu May 01, 2014 at 08:55:58 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  No, the states that have done it have had (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Tool

            reduced unemployment and increased businesses.

            There is no trickle-down, but there is trickle-up.

            I've never left a blank space on a ballot... but I will not vote for someone [who vows] to spy on me. I will not do it. - dclawyer06

            Trust, but verify. - Reagan
            Vote, but Occupy. - commonmass

            by Words In Action on Thu May 01, 2014 at 08:56:25 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Which states (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              freakofsociety, TexasTom

              have made a change of this magnitude - doubling the minimum wage - this quickly? I'm honestly curious.

              (To be clear, raising an already-superseded state minimum wage to match the federal one doesn't count. I'm looking for a doubling of the minimum amount that workers can be paid to comply with both state and federal law).

              •  That was to $10.10, (0+ / 0-)

                and people make the same argument about that - that it would kill jobs.

                If raised to $15 I'm confident the same would happen -- the minimum wage people would create more demand with their income, creating more jobs. Everyone now above minimum wage would also see increases, and this would lead to tremendous growth.

                Analyses have shown that price increases to support these wage increases would be minimal.

                I've never left a blank space on a ballot... but I will not vote for someone [who vows] to spy on me. I will not do it. - dclawyer06

                Trust, but verify. - Reagan
                Vote, but Occupy. - commonmass

                by Words In Action on Thu May 01, 2014 at 10:00:32 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I think we're not talking (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  freakofsociety, TexasTom

                  about the same thing. I'm for an instantaneous increase to $10.10. I agree that although this might create a small short-term negative impact, the long-term impact would be very positive.

                  What I'm saying is that I'm skeptical that an instantaneous increase to $15 would go quite as smoothly - although the long-term impact would be even better, the short-term negative impact would be a lot more noticeable, and that's a problem with a still-fragile economy. I haven't seen any states try this.

                  That's why I support raising the minimum wage to $15 over a period of six to eight years, to minimize the short-term shocks while still providing the long-term benefits.

                •  Analysis shows that... (0+ / 0-)

                  ...modest increases to the minimum wage have a minimal effect on prices and on the number of jobs.  Going from $7.25 to $10.10 is probably in the range where we can still assume that analysis of past minimum wage increases would be good for predicting the effect of this proposed increase.

                  But going to $15/hour is more than doubling the minimum wage -- and projecting data collected from modest increases to a doubling is just not legitimate.  We don't know what would happen if the minimum wage were to be doubled in a short period of time.

                  If Democrats proclaim the the Earth is round and Republicans insist it is flat, we will shortly see a column in the Washington Post claiming the the earth is really a semi-circle.

                  by TexasTom on Thu May 01, 2014 at 12:35:17 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

    •  I don't know what Kos would think... (0+ / 0-)

      ...but my opinion is that pushing a $15 minimum wage on a national level is a bad idea from both a policy and a political perspective unless it is phased in over many years.

      Starting with the policy side, we don't know what more than doubling the minimum wage would do, because all the past analysis is based on modest increases in the minimum wage, not doubling it.  So quickly doubling the minimum wage would be an economic experiment of unknown outcome conducted on a national scale.  Sorry, but that just doesn't seem wise.

      From a political viewpoint, it seems to be based on the assumption that if the public supports a modest increase, we'd see a similar level of support for a bigger increase.  I see no evidence to suggest this is true -- and I think it is likely that it would just make the Democratic party look reckless, thereby killing one of the advantages in perception that we have in comparison to the Republicans.

      If Democrats proclaim the the Earth is round and Republicans insist it is flat, we will shortly see a column in the Washington Post claiming the the earth is really a semi-circle.

      by TexasTom on Thu May 01, 2014 at 12:44:09 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  This is pretty cold comfort for the working poor (4+ / 0-)

    I'm not sure how many people in dire financial straits are going to get excited that the failure of Congress to address working poverty might help more Democrats get elected. It would not be likely to ease my suffering.

    •  Sorry that you're in bad shape. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      The Termite, freakofsociety

      Honest question - given the current composition of, e.g., the House, what could be done in Washington that would help you?

    •  Agree with you on this (0+ / 0-)

      In the diary, I found the following quote to be rather annoying:

      So perversely, losing yesterday's minimum wage Senate vote was a good thing.
      Since losing the vote means less money for a lot of people who really need the money, I see no way in which this loss should be considered a "good thing" and agree with you on it being cold comfort.

      Yes, I understand the politics that makes a real victory almost impossible on this issue.  But it's also important to remember that it's about more than strategy, but also how it affects real people.

      If Democrats proclaim the the Earth is round and Republicans insist it is flat, we will shortly see a column in the Washington Post claiming the the earth is really a semi-circle.

      by TexasTom on Thu May 01, 2014 at 12:37:48 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  it's about fucking time. this is what we SHOULD (5+ / 0-)

    have been doing on EVERY issue, from public-option health care to immigration reform, for the past six years.  Make the goppers vote against it again and again and again and again---then shove those votes down their throat till they choke on it.

    But I guess even an earthworm is capable of learning eventually--and even "late" is better than "never".

    (Assuming of course that the Dems don't eventually find yet another way to surrender half the farm for nothing. Again.)

    In the end, reality always wins.

    by Lenny Flank on Thu May 01, 2014 at 08:10:59 AM PDT

    •  Yes, instead we've gotten (0+ / 0-)

      we don't have the votes so instead we'll try austerity.

      I've never left a blank space on a ballot... but I will not vote for someone [who vows] to spy on me. I will not do it. - dclawyer06

      Trust, but verify. - Reagan
      Vote, but Occupy. - commonmass

      by Words In Action on Thu May 01, 2014 at 08:57:57 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Losing is not winning. I know what you're saying, (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Words In Action, TexasTom

    but honestly I really want to start winning by actually winning, you know? It'd be nice for a change.

  •  It is *not* a good thing. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Words In Action, Russycle, TexasTom

    Let's be clear.  It is a good thing for Democratic politics.  It is a bad thing for the people who would have been affected.  The latter are more important.

    Granted, this site focuses on Democratic politics.  And I think that the country will be better off in the long term if Democrats can bring a little sanity back to Congress.  But that will happen anyway, whether it's the long term or the slightly longer term.  To call this vote an unqualified "good thing" is forgetting what's important.

    Let us discard all this quibbling about this man or the other man, this race or that race... Let us unite as one people declaring that all men are created equal... A. Lincoln

    by ThatTallGuy on Thu May 01, 2014 at 08:16:12 AM PDT

    •  Sorry, but "bringing sanity back to (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      freakofsociety

      Congress" can ONLY occur if the GOP has been spanked by the voters.  This was not done by the Democrats to the detriment of the people who would be affected.  Any detriment falls to those who are blocking it -- and it is a good thing in the long run when that is manifestly the fault of the GOP.

      I’ve said before, I will always work with anyone who is willing to make this law work even better. But the debate over repealing this law is over. The Affordable Care Act is here to stay. -- President Barack Obama

      by Its the Supreme Court Stupid on Thu May 01, 2014 at 08:31:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The Democrats underplayed their hand (0+ / 0-)

        spectacularly in '09-'10, especially with regard to Wall St., foreclosures, college debt, jobs for young people, stimulus in general...

        Instead they protected Wall St., resuscitated the Right by giving it a seat at the table it did not deserve, adopted Bush militarism, failed to restore the Bill of Rights and the rule of law, neglected Climate Change, and ignored what would have been a more popular option with minimal implementation cost or risk: a public option.

        It waited years and years to change the filibuster rules and break through the obstructionism.

        And that is why they fell short in 2010.

        Don't blame the dogs for not liking the dog food.

        And remember, fear is not as effective for motivating the Left as the Right.

        I've never left a blank space on a ballot... but I will not vote for someone [who vows] to spy on me. I will not do it. - dclawyer06

        Trust, but verify. - Reagan
        Vote, but Occupy. - commonmass

        by Words In Action on Thu May 01, 2014 at 09:37:38 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Nobody said this was "done by Democrats". (0+ / 0-)

        What was "done by Democrats" was calling the failure of this bill a "good thing."  It's that supremely self-centric focus I'm objecting to.

        Sure, Democrats want this because it would be good for the people.  And there's nothing wrong with looking for a silver lining in a cloud.  But to ignore the cloud is dangerous and wrong.

        Let us discard all this quibbling about this man or the other man, this race or that race... Let us unite as one people declaring that all men are created equal... A. Lincoln

        by ThatTallGuy on Fri May 02, 2014 at 07:47:21 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Increasing minimum wage has broad appeal (7+ / 0-)

    not just to those who make $7.25 per hour, but everyone who makes anywhere from $7.25 to $10.10 per hour.  

    This increase can add $5,000 per year to a family's budget, in a time when wage stagnation is the norm.  

    If your boss won't give you a measly raise after you haven't had a raise for years, who will?  

    Alison Grimes will, Kay Hagen will, Mary Landrieu will, Jeanne Shaheen will, Natalie Tennant will,....DEMOCRATS want to give you the raise you deserve, but Mitch McConnell and the Republicans are too busy playing footsie with their rich friends the Koch Brothers to bother giving you what you deserve...

    The middle class deserves a fair shake.  It's time to throw the limousine Republicans out.  

    "Out of Many, One Nation." This is the great promise of these United States of America -9.75 -6.87

    by Uncle Moji on Thu May 01, 2014 at 08:18:37 AM PDT

    •  and often one spouse is earning minimum wage (3+ / 0-)

      while the other may have a more living wage.  As a family you may not be impoverished, but you will be happy if your husband/wife gets a significant raise.  So the number of people this helps is greater than just the number of minimum wage earners.  

      •  Only 7% of American families are deliberately (0+ / 0-)

        one wage earner.  We live in an economy of double or multiple wage earners, this is both a choice and a necessity, and many hourly workers find themselves in the "barely more than minimum wage but not a livable wage" class, in a stagnating wage economy.

        We are not your mice running in a endless wheel, we are human beings who deserve the dignity this raise represents.

        This raise is not just about money, it's about dignity and respect.  It's about decency and fairness.  

        American families deserve a raise.

        I agree 100% with you, this is a winner for Democrats.  

        "Out of Many, One Nation." This is the great promise of these United States of America -9.75 -6.87

        by Uncle Moji on Thu May 01, 2014 at 08:57:33 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Why must gridlock be balanced on the backs of the (4+ / 0-)

    poor?

    While we're at it, let's have vote after vote on raising tax rates on the wealthy, repealing carried interest, and imposing a financial transaction tax.

    Get Republicans to vote against the poor, and for the rich.

    “Hardworking men and women who are busting their tails in full-time jobs shouldn't be left in poverty.” -- Elizabeth Warren

    by Positronicus on Thu May 01, 2014 at 08:27:27 AM PDT

  •  Lather, Rinse, Repeat (0+ / 0-)

    Over and Over Again. As often as Possible.

    From now until November.

    Make the Rethuglycants Own the lack of a Wage Increase
    for all those folks at the Bottom.

    Do this long enough and Even the Poor folks living in
    RED States will be able to figure this out.

    The term "Long Enough", in this case, is a very elastic term.

    Don't hold your Breath.

    On Giving Advice: Smart People Don't Need It and Stupid People Don't Listen

    by Brian76239 on Thu May 01, 2014 at 09:16:53 AM PDT

  •  The GOP never ceases to amaze me (0+ / 0-)

    They don't want these people living on gov programs....but they also don't want them to have enough money to take care of themselves without government. So much for "compassionate" conservatism.

  •  * YES. * (0+ / 0-)

    let the free ammo do the blammo.
    no firearm even necessary.

    spiritual air mattress at home in the seas of the soul.

    TRAILHEAD of accountability for Bush-2 Crimes? -- Addington's Perpwalk.

    by greenbird on Thu May 01, 2014 at 12:22:41 PM PDT

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