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What do you do when you're the chairman of the Republican National Committee and you can't rebrand your own party? You try to rebrand the other guys:

Dems may be looking for another, fresh brand to support over @HillaryClinton http://t.co/...
@Reince
If you follow the Reince's link (which I really wouldn't encourage you to do), you'll find out that Republicans think Clinton is trying to "quiet another rebellion on the left." Reince doesn't provide any evidence for that, but he does provide a ton of research proving that Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton had a hard-fought primary battle in 2008 ... which is news to exactly zero people. Coincidentally, zero is also the percentage chance that Reince's lame trolling will have its intended effect. But I hope he keeps on trying, because a desperate Reince Priebus is a fun thing to watch.

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Comment Preferences

  •  I think the GOP is killing TV comedy writers. (15+ / 0-)

    They are just so entertaining without added content.

    But that gave me an idea for a new reality show...

    ...GOP candidate debates.

    Hey you could just throw anyone on screen with some fun questions.

    No one would know the difference.

    The highest form of spiritual practice is self observation with compassion.

    by NCJim on Thu May 01, 2014 at 10:18:45 AM PDT

  •  I think he means GOP is looking for a fresh brand (10+ / 0-)

    and if they can't find one, Hillary will win by double digits.

    Take the fight to them. Don't let them bring it to you. - Harry S Truman

    by jgoodfri on Thu May 01, 2014 at 10:19:03 AM PDT

  •  PreiBUS. (9+ / 0-)

    That's the name. I kept thinking "Prius", and his name being synonymous with a car wash.

    "Non-violence is a powerful and just weapon which cuts without wounding and ennobles the man who wields it. It is a sword that heals." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

    by Gentle Giant on Thu May 01, 2014 at 10:20:19 AM PDT

  •  He's dim, Jed! (7+ / 0-)

    But, we all knew that...

    Float like a manhole cover, sting like a sash weight! Clean Coal Is A Clinker!

    by JeffW on Thu May 01, 2014 at 10:21:01 AM PDT

  •  Reince: wedge or wedgie (6+ / 0-)
    WITH AN EYE ON 2016, DEMOCRATS MAY BE ALREADY LOOKING FOR ANOTHER FRESH BRAND TO SUPPORT OVER CLINTON
    As Obama Built Momentum In The 2008 Primaries, Democratic Superdelegates Began “To Jump Ship” From Clinton’s Campaign, “Abandoning Her For Obama.” “The Democratic superdelegates are starting to follow the voters — straight to Barack Obama. In just the past two weeks, more than two dozen of them have climbed aboard his presidential campaign, according to a survey by The Associated Press. At the same time, Hillary Rodham Clinton’s are beginning to jump ship, abandoning her for Obama or deciding they now are undecided. … As Obama has reeled off 11 straight primary victories, some of the superdelegates are having second — or third — thoughts about their public commitments.” (Stephen Ohlemacher, “Superdelegates Are Flocking To Obama,” The Associated Press, 2/23/08)

    Warning - some snark may be above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 "I’m not the strapping young Muslim socialist that I used to be" - Barack Obama 04/27/2013 (@eState4Column5).

    by annieli on Thu May 01, 2014 at 10:22:55 AM PDT

  •  Hillary is the electable one ... (16+ / 0-)

    ... so we hear, but there is indeed a "left-wing" movement to prefer Warren, me included. Even if Warren doesn't get the nom, I hope she can pull that Overton Window (good term?) in a more populist direction.

    •  Me included too. (11+ / 0-)

      And I suspect most folks around these parts.

        And I see Senator Warren as the more electable one, as she's a real Populist, without Hillary's corporatism or her baggage.

      "We the People of the United States...." -U.S. Constitution

      by elwior on Thu May 01, 2014 at 10:36:33 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Warren has said she's not interested in POTUS. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      nickrud, Pam from Calif, mmacdDE, Matt Z

      Not interested. yet.

      I don't think it's her time, but we have more than two years before the 2016 election. A lot can happen between now and then.

      But there's also a chance of having the right person at the wrong time. Elizabeth Warren is definitely to the left of Hillary Clinton. Is the mood of the nation ready for a leader who stands on the spectrum where Warren does? Will we be that prone to progressivism by 2016?

      It may be that Clinton will be the leader we need by the time November 2016 rolls around. It may not. We'll have to ride it out 'til then and see who can be the most effective when the time comes.

      "Non-violence is a powerful and just weapon which cuts without wounding and ennobles the man who wields it. It is a sword that heals." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

      by Gentle Giant on Thu May 01, 2014 at 10:39:38 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  she's not just "electable" (0+ / 0-)
      Clinton trounces her potential primary rivals with 73 percent of Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents, reinforcing a narrative of inevitability around her nomination if she runs. Vice President Biden is second with 12 percent, and Sen. Elizabeth Warren (Mass.) is third with 8 percent.
      from here
    •  Sen. Warren (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Pam from Calif, glitterscale, Matt Z

      Has much fundraising prowess.  On the other hand, she doesn't need to worry about the Clinton machine or the Republicans, she needs to worry about the DC pundits and media, who hate her a lot worse than the conservatives do.

      I suspect she hasn't ruled the veepstakes out.  We've seen that she got the last laugh on Larry The Misogynist Summers (he's trying to scarf up crumbs from Wall Street and is discredited, she's in the Senate and has a loyal fan base screaming at the top of their lungs).  If that were to happen, you'd need to start cutting new holes over in the next room on the left for the relocation of the Overton Window.

    •  ANYONE we have is more "electable" (0+ / 0-)

      than anyone the seething rebellion to Rinsey's right is going to cough up. ANYONE. Even the cats sitting on my desk, who I assure you are a lot cuter than Rand Paul.

      Ed FitzGerald for governor Of Ohio. Women's lives depend on it. http://www.edfitzgeraldforohio.com/

      by anastasia p on Thu May 01, 2014 at 11:51:02 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Warren has endorsed Clinton (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      hbk, Jakeston, cassandraX

      so why do you keep thinking she's running?

      She's not. She didn't even want to run for Senate. She had to be dragged into that race kicking and screaming. And now she's quite happy where she's at.

      •  And she may end up in a Clinton cabinet (0+ / 0-)

        I'd be thrilled if she stayed in the Senate but I'd be delirious to see her as Treasury Secretary.

        I love Elizabeth Warren. But she does not have the experience at the national level that Hillary has.

        Obama didn't have it either, and that is perhaps why his administration was not particularly adept at fighting the GOP--until recently. He'd been elected in part on the hope that he would unite the country and lead us into a post-partisan, post-racist promised land.

        It's easy to project wonderfulness onto someone we haven't known for long. Obama benefited from that in 08 and Warren is benefiting from it now.

        Hillary has tons of baggage and we know her weaknesses. But her strengths by far outweigh them. The very fact that after 20+ years of being smeared by the right she's able to poll so positively says a lot about those strengths.

        I'd like Warren in a cabinet position, getting more executive experience, and then Warren in 2024.

        "This is a center-left country. Democrats can act that way and win. In fact, they must." -- Markos

        by cassandraX on Fri May 02, 2014 at 03:43:53 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  This is the only RP tweet I've ever (21+ / 0-)

    agreed with.

    Hillary's both a hawk and a corporatist, and deeply wedded to Wall Street. Why any Democrat wants to cheer that and clear the path for her is lost on me, unless of course they aren't Democrats in any way that has meaning to anyone who works for a living.

    I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires. - Susan B. Anthony Everything good a man can be, a dog already is. - pajoly

    by pajoly on Thu May 01, 2014 at 10:24:58 AM PDT

    •  I pretty much agree with your entire comment (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Choco8, glitterscale

      But I cannot bring myself to say, out loud, that I agree with Priebus on anything, even if it were only the color of the sky or that gravity works.

      And I know this is somewhat nit picky in light of the larger issues like HRC's ties to corporate America, but I really hate when the "fresh" meme gets used against a female politician. If Preibus has said something like Democrats are tired of the same old policies or retread candidates, it wouldn't bother me, but as a woman, 'fresh' sounds like a code word people use when they want to subtly remind people that a woman is too old. I hate that.  I could even see legitimate queries about her age being made, much like those with Biden. But then have the guts to say what you mean; people use dogwhistles when they know they are saying something wrong.

      Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves. -Thoreau

      by CenPhx on Thu May 01, 2014 at 10:38:37 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I agree, but there's no way in hell (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      hbk, Incredulousinusa

      I'd ever support anyone that reince preibus  told me to support. If it comes down to it, Hillary is about 1000x better than anyone on their side.  All the objections you noted are magnified in the publican party by a factor of 1000.  If someone else emerges before the primary season who has as credible a chance to win and is more progressive, then we'll talk.  Right now there isn't anyone.

      A learning experience is one of those things that says, 'You know that thing you just did? Don't do that.' Douglas Adams

      by dougymi on Thu May 01, 2014 at 10:52:07 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  True. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        dougymi, ChuckChuckerson

        But if the choice comes down to batshit crazy and republican lite I DO have an alternative to voting for either.

        •  notice I said credible chance to win. (0+ / 0-)

          Alternatives do not have that possibility in this country. Shame, but there ya go.  I don't like it any better than anyone else.

          A learning experience is one of those things that says, 'You know that thing you just did? Don't do that.' Douglas Adams

          by dougymi on Thu May 01, 2014 at 11:25:27 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  It is a shame (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            dougymi, greenbell, greenbastard

            but I'm only responsible for my vote not the votes of others. I can't imagine that the Republican party will have a candidate I can vote for. If the Democratic party does the same I'll write in the name of someone I can vote for and my conscience will be clear.

            •  Would your conscience be clear (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              hbk, Incredulousinusa, Australian2

              If the Republicans had a 7-2 Supreme Court majority that wasn't even fixable for DECADES because of Dems sitting out this election because Hillary isn't far enough to the left for us? Because that's what's at stake here. Not necessarily trying to attack you, you can do what you want, but the stakes are higher than just the presidency.

              •  Sounds an awful lot like extortion (2+ / 0-)

                How about the corporatists crawl back into their Wall Street offices and return the Democratic Party back to the democrats?

                Hillary has done nothing to earn the nomination. Nothing. If anything, she's proven to be a rank opportunist, enduring spousal emotional abuse for the sake of power; moving to New York because she'd never win in Arkansas; advancing finance interests at every turn to gain access to their contributions. Exiting public service to cash in with the cabal.

                She offers NOTHING for most Americans, save for her being a woman and that is NOT a reason to support her.

                I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires. - Susan B. Anthony Everything good a man can be, a dog already is. - pajoly

                by pajoly on Thu May 01, 2014 at 01:27:14 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Extortion? (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Richard Villiers

                  I pointed out the spoils that will come with the next presidency. How in the hell is that extortion?

                  I don't disagree that she's not the best on a lot of issues, but she's certainly better than the Republicans. And she'd perform extremely well on a national level to boost our performances in an already good year for senate elections and house elections, and have the ability to appoint probably a MINIMUM of 3 supreme court justices.

                  If you can show me a candidate that can perform like Clinton can, and who has a decent shot at winning nationally at this time, I'll start listening. I'm not even 100% solid on Clinton, I'm not suggesting I'll vote for her in the primary. I'm simply saying that stamping your feet because your candidate doesn't win a primary and refusing to vote in the general election does nothing but harm.

                  •  I get all that, but in the end, what's the point? (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Richard Villiers

                    In electing a Democrat only to find ourselves closer to war with Russia, probably in war with Iran? What's the point of "victory" if it means income inequality gets worse (Hillary seems to be studiously avoiding the conversation completely)? What's the point of unifying nationally if it only furthers the police state? Wonderful! She electable, and then uses her political capital to pass the TPP. Yay for America, right?

                    All the Hillary supporters seem to be pointing to one thing: she can win. Yeah, well, the rest of us are asking the question, what good does it do the People?

                    God knows Hillary is being awfully quiet on key topics even as they become widely discussed.

                    I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires. - Susan B. Anthony Everything good a man can be, a dog already is. - pajoly

                    by pajoly on Thu May 01, 2014 at 02:12:43 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

              •  Yes the stakes are very high (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                pajoly

                I hope the Democratic party will nominate an acceptable candidate. If it doesn't it won't be my fault nor my responsibility. I refuse to be held hostage, I will only vote for someone I believe is deserving of my vote. Perhaps when the time comes Ms. Clinton will have convinced me that she deserves my vote.

                The short answer to your question is Yes. Btw, I see your question as a reasonable one not an attack of any kind.

                •  So in other words... (0+ / 0-)

                  Unless the people who vote within Democratic Primaries do what you want, you won't support or vote for the person that the majority of people that voted in the Democratic Primaries voted for.  

                  A person's character is measured by how they treat everyone. Not just your pet group.

                  by Tempus Figits on Thu May 01, 2014 at 03:24:40 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  That's your spin not mine (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    pajoly

                    I don't know how to make it any clearer: I will only vote for someone that deserves my vote. I have the right to decide who deserves my vote and who does not. Other people have the same right. Personally, I think it's downright stupid to expect me to vote for someone that doesn't deserve my vote just because a majority of other voters in an election vote differently. I guess you and I have very different ideas about voting.

                    •  No that is yours. (0+ / 0-)

                      You are the one that is refusing to support Clinton.  No matter what.

                      A person's character is measured by how they treat everyone. Not just your pet group.

                      by Tempus Figits on Thu May 01, 2014 at 04:18:20 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  With all due respect you don't know what you're (0+ / 0-)

                        talking about. There is another comment in this thread where I say explicitly that come 2016 Ms. Clinton may have earned my vote. I have serious doubts about her but the election is a long way off. But she's like every other candidate for office that I can vote for, she has to earn my vote.

      •  He's only saying this (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        dougymi, Richard Villiers

        because he knows damn well he can't do anything about the rebellion to his right and he's probably shitting his pants about it right now.

        Ed FitzGerald for governor Of Ohio. Women's lives depend on it. http://www.edfitzgeraldforohio.com/

        by anastasia p on Thu May 01, 2014 at 11:52:11 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Agree (4+ / 0-)

      It is disappointing that so many moderates, the US has no truly liberal party, fail to see what you are pointing out.  Hillary is far to the right of center, lacks any spark of concern for a more just, less Oligarchic, more middle class orientated social, political, or least of all economic agenda.  When Obama first ran he at least talked a good game.  Hillary simply avoids any discussion of any issue or topic that might elucidate her stand on anything of substance. From her recent facelift to her media presence she is tightly packaged and fabricated by the economic "elite".

      •  Oh she discusses it alright... (3+ / 0-)

        ...such as when she stands before the oligarchs in speeches and tells Wall Street how public criticism for them is unwarranted and goes too far.

        Poor beleaguered Wall Streeters. Hillary is there to salve their wounds and protect their exploding wealth with every fiber in her being.

        I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires. - Susan B. Anthony Everything good a man can be, a dog already is. - pajoly

        by pajoly on Thu May 01, 2014 at 11:31:03 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Priebus is wrong (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      hbk, Jakeston

      and you agree with him.

      Ergo, you are wrong. Objectively.

      With over 70 percent support among Democrats in primary matchups, Hillary has unified the party better than anyone else in memory.

      Democrats like her. And you saying they're not Democrats is not just asinine, it's counterproductive.

      It is Hillary's detractors who are in the minority, and it's a pretty tiny minority.

      •  It's the informed minority Kos (2+ / 0-)

        As the Right shows, there's a great deal of hands-off-my-Medicare flippin' morons among the electorate in terms of being low information and the Right has no corner on it.

        Polls are not policy. You can cheer her on and her ability to "unify" people. Don't expect to get a pass though when as President more our fellow vets walk the streets hungry, more young men and women die for wars of empire, more wanna-be fascists firm up the police state, more blacks are sent to prison in an expanded drug war, etc.

        Just tell me you are prepared to be complicit in all that. Own it when it happens.

        I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires. - Susan B. Anthony Everything good a man can be, a dog already is. - pajoly

        by pajoly on Thu May 01, 2014 at 01:34:44 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  As a 'Hillary detractor' (0+ / 0-)

        am I a Democrat? I believe that Hillary detractors have legitimate concerns. What's the proper response, just be quiet?

  •  As far as I can tell... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Aunt Pat, a2nite, Gentle Giant, JeffW

    Reince Priebus talking has all the value and positive impact as a gnat buzzing around one's ear.

    Or, to paraphrase my favorite author, Priebus is like a bad case of herpes: he's inconvenient, embarassing, no real threat, and simply will not go away.

    Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves. -Thoreau

    by CenPhx on Thu May 01, 2014 at 10:28:37 AM PDT

  •  We ARE looking but (12+ / 0-)

    Our knights in shining armor are not willing to step forth, and I'd rather win with Hillary than lose with anyone else at this point.

    The Cake is a lie. In Pie there is Truth. ~ Fordmandalay

    by catwho on Thu May 01, 2014 at 10:28:49 AM PDT

  •  Please please please (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Aunt Pat, elwior, CenPhx, JeffW

    Let the GOP elect Mitt again so this tweet can be archived for even more hilarity.

    •  The White Horse('s Ass) Candidate! n/t (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Richard Villiers

      Float like a manhole cover, sting like a sash weight! Clean Coal Is A Clinker!

      by JeffW on Thu May 01, 2014 at 10:42:29 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  An object with 3 sides is called a “Triangle” (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      T J Lewis, Richard Villiers, JeffW

      An object with 4 sides is called a “Rectangle”
      An object with 5 sides is called a "Pentagon"
      An object with 6 sides is called a “Hexagon”
      An object with 12 sides is called a “Dodecahedron”
      An object with an infinite number of sides is called a “Romney gone”

      •  Mistakes in the post... (0+ / 0-)

        A Rectangle is a 4 sided object with right angles for corners, the general term is a Quadrilateral.

        Also, a Dodecahedron is a solid object generally refering to an object made of 12 regular Pentagons. A 12 sided polygon (staying with the previous 3 entries) would be a dodecagon.

        (And yes, my bachelor's degree is in Mathematics. :) )

  •  Count me in for the rebellion!! (16+ / 0-)

    I need to know if she stands with those Third Way jackasses who keep trying to bury Warren over her support for Social Security.

    Is Hillary for Social Security or against it?  Does Hillary stand with Warren on Social Security?  Or does she stand with the may they burn in hell Third Way?  

    Is Hillary going to con tens of millions of old women into voting for her and then sell them out to the may they burn in hell till tell freezes over Third Way?  

    Warren stands for WOMEN on the most important WOMEN'S issues there are Social Security and Medicare.  If you are a 63 year old woman like me doing her best to care for a 93 year old mother you know what I mean.  Caregiving is central to women.  Pay attention when you drop by the grocery or the drug store or the doctor's office and you'll see women in their 60's taking their mothers in their '80s and '90s to buy food, prescriptions, and to doctor's appointments.  

    The Third Way doesn't get it.  Does Hillary?

    I need to know.  

    •  It's one of the first questions Hillary would need (7+ / 0-)

      to answer.
         Although her answer will likely be avoidance as her sentiment lies with the Third way, but she can't come out and say it.

      "We the People of the United States...." -U.S. Constitution

      by elwior on Thu May 01, 2014 at 10:39:53 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Will asking help? (4+ / 0-)

      I don't know that asking the questions of candidates matters anymore. The Democratic candidates took positions and said things during the last primary that they did not uphold once in office. Even if HRC answered every question you raised, which were good questions, btw, I would not believe her. Her actions, in office and in the private sphere, and her statements, make her a person for whom I would not want to cast my vote.

      Even if she made every appropriate campaign promise under the sun, I do not think her presidency would keep those promises.

      Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves. -Thoreau

      by CenPhx on Thu May 01, 2014 at 10:45:47 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It helps to get them on the record (4+ / 0-)

        And I do not mean spin.  I do not mean weasel words.  I do not mean "strengthen".  I do not mean "reform".  

        It's not complicated at all.  Will she VETO any bill that cuts benefits or raises the retirement age?  That's all we need to know.  We don't need bullshit.  We need to know if she will VETO the THIRD WAY.  With all her experience and competence does Hillary have the capacity to make a simple declarative sentence?  

        If you don't hear one, you've heard all you need to know.  And I pick Social Security and Medicare because they are beacons.  They are bottom lines.  When you can't get a commitment on them you know you have a commitment on nothing that matters to the middle class.  And a party that won't defend the middle class will do nothing on poverty because without a middle class the poor can aspire to nothing.

      •  Whose presidency does? Whose ever has? (0+ / 0-)

        All of our presidents have been human and therefore fallible. And even if their intention is to keep promises, the reality and myriad extenuating circumstances may make it improbable.

        I'd love Hillary, Obama, name a leader, to be perfect- to be able to accomplish every act they would like and I would like. That's not realistic.

        I understand that some things are not negotiable, like adherence to a Third Way philosophy. Fine. Maybe we can disabuse any of our leaders who want to run of that connection. If not, vote for someone else or abstain.

        "Non-violence is a powerful and just weapon which cuts without wounding and ennobles the man who wields it. It is a sword that heals." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

        by Gentle Giant on Thu May 01, 2014 at 11:13:59 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Consider what THIRD Way means (4+ / 0-)

          Third Way is code for rejection of the New Deal, Fair Deal, Great Society, i.e., the Democratic Party.  

          How can you call yourself a Democrat and support candidates with so much contempt for the legacy of their own party?

          I mean I just have to hoot when people pull diaries because they discuss the Green Party platform which mostly is traditional Democratic stuff but support folks who brag about how THIRD they are.  They brag about how they want to cut Social Security and Medicare as if that was a positive goal, like there is some greater good in old seniors having less.  They value the old and sick having less. They brag about it!  

          •  I haven't seen anyone on this site, (0+ / 0-)

            apart from a few trolls, say we should cut the safety net at all, and especially not the regulars and front-pagers.

            It's a rare kossack that thinks that way.

            "Non-violence is a powerful and just weapon which cuts without wounding and ennobles the man who wields it. It is a sword that heals." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

            by Gentle Giant on Thu May 01, 2014 at 01:58:04 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Agreed. So this question urgently needs to be (4+ / 0-)

          asked of HRC, since as you say:

          I understand that some things are not negotiable, like adherence to a Third Way philosophy.
          It is Former President Clinton who is pictured with Tony Blair in the Wikipedia entry for "The Third Way."

          So I agree with GB about getting "details" on her stance regarding Social Security reform.  

          But, it shouldn't stop there--include her foreign policy stances, and ask if she agrees with the Senate Democrats (DLC/Blue Dog) and Independent Senator King on their "solutions" to fixing the ACA.  

          THIS is a most important issue, because some of the fixes that these Senators proposed in March (2014), would make the ACA more, not less, conservative in nature.

          Such as including even skimpier catastrophic insurance plans, amending the "employer mandate" so that it extends to only a small percentage of HUGE employers/corporations, etc.

          For that matter, ALL Presidential candidates should be required to answer these questions!

          ;-)

          Mollie

          "Only he who can see the invisible, can do the impossible."-- Frank L. Gaines


          hiddennplainsight--Relaunched 2014!

          by musiccitymollie on Thu May 01, 2014 at 12:09:31 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  also her involvement with the TPP and KXL (3+ / 0-)
            She’s also taken a leading part in drafting the Trans-Pacific Partnership, the free-trade pact that would give U.S. companies a leg up on their Chinese competitors.
            http://www.businessweek.com/...

            the first troublesome reports coming out of the State Department regarding the KXL was on her watch.

            I'd like to know where she stands on that.

            But then, it's her ties to Wall Street that bug me as well:

            She had many Wall Street rainmakers as advisers and friends...she’s been out on the financial services speaking circuit, giving talks to Goldman Sachs and fireside-style chats with the heads of the Carlyle Group and the investment firm KKR.
            The darkest secret in the big money world of the Republican coastal elite is that the most palatable alternative to a nominee such as Sen. Ted Cruz of Texas or Sen. Rand Paul of Kentucky would be Clinton, a familiar face on Wall Street following her tenure as a New York senator with relatively moderate views on taxation and financial regulation.
            “If it turns out to be Jeb versus Hillary we would love that and either outcome would be fine,” one top Republican-leaning Wall Street lawyer said over lunch in midtown Manhattan last week. “We could live with either one
            http://www.politico.com/...

            Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell. --Edward Abbey

            by greenbastard on Thu May 01, 2014 at 12:17:40 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  link for KXL links to HRC (3+ / 0-)

              I meant to include this in my above comment

              http://www.desmogblog.com/...

              The web of tar sands lobbyist cronies with ties to Hillary Clinton pressuring the State Department to approve Keystone XL shows that President Obama must take personal responsibility for the transparency and objectivity of this permit decision. It appears that Secretary Clinton is too compromised by this web of polluter influence peddlers from her past to say no to Keystone XL.

              Saying no to this filthy tar sands pipeline is the only viable option for President Obama, who campaigned not only on a platform of strong climate action and ending our oil addiction, but also for transparency and minimizing the role of corporate lobbyists in policy decisions.  

              Right now, the State Department’s capitulation to lobbyists – and secrecy about Secretary Clinton’s contacts with lobbyists  – stinks to high heaven, as the recently released emails demonstrate. Hopefully this amended FOIA request will compel the State Department to reveal all the facts about lobbyist influence over Hillary Clinton’s position on Keystone XL.

              Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell. --Edward Abbey

              by greenbastard on Thu May 01, 2014 at 12:22:13 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  I can agree to those questions and concerns. I (2+ / 0-)

            share them. But I'm reading a lot of suppositions here. And sometimes, in the give and take of bartering for passage, appearances may not be completely accurate.

            And I'm not a fan of TPP and didn't know she supported KXL in any way.
            As far as her Wall Street connections, unfortunately nearly ALL of our congress persons have those connections.

            "Non-violence is a powerful and just weapon which cuts without wounding and ennobles the man who wields it. It is a sword that heals." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

            by Gentle Giant on Thu May 01, 2014 at 02:02:10 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  Who in their right mind is anti-Social Security? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mmacdDE, Free Jazz at High Noon

      Especially with the greying of us Boomers? Political suicide.

      I do notice the women my age and older with their elderly parents wherever I go. I understand the stresses and strains that act, usually a long term kindness, can bring. I also understand what it means to the parent to be cared for by her/his own. The value on that can not be overestimated, even if the parent doesn't or can't show it.

      My mother cared for her mother for a while and then her elder sister, who just passed last year. Now she is in a facility caring for her Alzheimer's. My dad lives there with her. Fortunately, two of my siblings could afford to do that for them.
      It was still a struggle to have them give up first her car, then the house, then his car. They told us years ago to do it. And they fought us for each and every thing they've lost.

      My turn is just around the corner.

      Politics matters. This is why it matters. Quality of life is directly impacted by everything the jackasses we elect do.
      Hillary was huge on healthcare reform, helping thousands of people while First Lady of Arkansas. She knows those issues well, probably deeper than anyone around her. She truly is an expert.
      Let's not sell her too short. She isn't heartless, and she's by no means stupid.

      "Non-violence is a powerful and just weapon which cuts without wounding and ennobles the man who wields it. It is a sword that heals." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

      by Gentle Giant on Thu May 01, 2014 at 11:02:34 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Seems to be a lot of people anti-SS (4+ / 0-)

        and they seem to think they are in their "right minds" ... um, Paul Ryan, anyone?

        I don't think our widespread problem is "selling her short." It's the opposite. Our problem is trying to assure ourselves she will be a fountain of wonderful progressive ideas she doesn't possess, so desperate are we to convince ourselves that the candidate we have told we have no choice about will actually turn out to be a our heroine. The reality is that because of the situation a president is put in, no matter what their intent, they will turn out to be more cautious and achieve less than we hoped. You don't start out middle-of-the-road and become a flaming champion of the people once you're in the White House.

        What you see is what you get. Hillary will remain as she is – and probably be pushed more to the right if elected. It's just the nature of the office.

        Ed FitzGerald for governor Of Ohio. Women's lives depend on it. http://www.edfitzgeraldforohio.com/

        by anastasia p on Thu May 01, 2014 at 12:04:02 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Let's hear from her then (3+ / 0-)

        Does she agree with her old pal Ed Rendell who has been running around selling Social Security cuts for Fix the Debt?  

        If she didn't have such close ties to these wretches in the Third Way, I'd cut her some slack, but I don't know where she is.  

        You tell me she did great stuff in Arkansas.  Well how do you keep them down on the farm after they've seen DC and Manhattan not to mention Paris.  She abandoned Arkansas and healthcare and became a New York supporter of Wall Street and a hawk.

        So who will she be in 2016?  I do not doubt her competence.  But she needs to take a break from the fat cat dinners long enough to tell us where she stands or maybe we need to find a member of the waitstaff to bring in a web cam so we can hear what she is telling them and not telling us.

        •  You nailed it, GB. It's not a matter of (3+ / 0-)

          competence--it's a matter of "ideology."

          This nation is hungry for a populist candidate.  

          Recently, I've seen polls that reflect that many young people are disenchanted (think "mounting tuition costs, etc.) with the entire political system.

          And some pollsters are predicting lower "youth turnout" this November.

          We need a true fighter for Low and Middle Class Americans.  Not someone with major ties and loyalty to the One Percent (Pete Peterson) and Wall Street.

          Mollie

          "Only he who can see the invisible, can do the impossible."-- Frank L. Gaines


          hiddennplainsight--Relaunched 2014!

          by musiccitymollie on Thu May 01, 2014 at 12:21:36 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Ideology + the power to enact it (2+ / 0-)

            No one as power hungry as she is -- and let's face it you don't spend years as First Lady of Arkansas,  8 years in the White House as First Lady, only to NEED to get yourself elected Senator from NY and NEED to run for President and NEED to be Secretary of State and apparently NEED to run again for President even though you'd be about the oldest President ever unless you have an enormous over the top zeal to have the biggest legacy ever --- so what deals is she going to cut to achieve that?  

            And for that matter WHAT is the legacy she wants?  She's been running forever.  What does she want to do?  Does she want to do it for herself or does she want to do it for the American people and if she does WHY isn't she telling us what she wants to accomplish?  

            What's it all about Hillary and to what lengths are you willing to go to get it whatever it is?

            •  Well put! We have decades of proof that the (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Richard Villiers

              Clintons are voracious fighters for their own political careers.

              However, [often] when it came to policies that affected the lives of "the American People," FP Clinton also "triangulated with the best of 'em."

              Many accounts say that MonicaGate "saved us from" an Erskine Bowles/Gingrich/Clinton Social Security "reform deal."

              (I've already posted a link to, and excerpt from Jane Hamsher's FDL diary on same, if anyone would like to read her analysis of this.  It's in my comments--somewhere, LOL!)

              Bottom Line:  Former Secretary Clinton should have to state and defend her stances (in detail) on every issue.  No exceptions!

              Mollie

              "Only he who can see the invisible, can do the impossible."-- Frank L. Gaines


              hiddennplainsight--Relaunched 2014!

              by musiccitymollie on Thu May 01, 2014 at 12:48:30 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  Hey, GG--did you miss the many diaries generated (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        greenbell, Richard Villiers

        by the Grand Bargain Group?

        Please check them out.  IIRC, not only has our safety net been threatened, but this Administration has repeatedly put cuts on-the-table in "bargaining sessions."

        See my comment about conservadem "solutions" or "fixes" to ObamaCare.  We can't "assume" anything.

        All candidates need to be demanded to state their stances, on all the issues.  (Although I have to agree, to some extent, with the commenter who questioned "what good it does.")   ;-)

        Mollie

        "Only he who can see the invisible, can do the impossible."-- Frank L. Gaines


        hiddennplainsight--Relaunched 2014!

        by musiccitymollie on Thu May 01, 2014 at 12:17:01 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Stopped Clocks and All (5+ / 0-)
    Dems may be looking for another, fresh brand to support over @HillaryClinton
  •  Dear Reince, it really sucks for you (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    a2nite, JeffW, deh

    that you aren't Debbie Wasserman Schultz, head of the DNC.  

    Dude!  Sorry.

    "Out of Many, One Nation." This is the great promise of these United States of America -9.75 -6.87

    by Uncle Moji on Thu May 01, 2014 at 10:34:52 AM PDT

  •  Somebody email Rancid and tell him the branding (8+ / 0-)

    iron Hillary killed Vince Foster with, is wrapped in a copy of Obama's Kenyan birth certificate and buried in Benghazi. And that a  shovel has been found in a trash bin in Tripoli with Susan Rice's fingerprints on it.

    I'm working on a map. X marks the spot.

  •  There are only four reasons to vote for Hillary (6+ / 0-)

    1.  Because she is a woman (not a legitimate reason, unless voring for Obama just because he's black is a legit reason - which it isn't)

    2.  Nostalgia for the 1990's (or at least the 1990's growth/bubble economy).  Really?  (not a legitimate liberal reason)

    3.  You think anybody else Dems nominate will lose the GE. (this won't even be readily apparent until after the nomination is concluded)

    4.  You're just convinced that she is different from Bill and herself from the 1990's.  That the dog has learned new tricks.  That the leopard has changed it's spots.  That the scorpion will act against it's nature,....etc.  Good luck with that one.

    Otherwise, pick any other legitimate Dem candidate (they'll all be to the Left of Hillary), and vote for them.  If she still wins because the less enlightened buy into one of the above reasons,...then the coming disaster is on them.

    •  BTW, regarding number 4 above... (5+ / 0-)

      Most people become more conservative as they age, not more liberal.  Hillary and Bill will be 16 years older than they were when they left office.  Both will be senior citizens, infinitely richer, and much closer to the 0.1%.  Most of them vote GOP.

      And, the only thing that kept those people honest (and I use that term VERY loosely) for 8 years in the 90's, was the belief that their careers in the Dem party were not over in 2000.  What's to keep them accountable to Dems this time around?

      Oh, wait,...a belief that they've "changed".

      •  Finally, a lesson from History... (2+ / 0-)

        In 1988, large parts of the GOP coalition were very wary of George HW Bush.  They didn't trust him.  They didn't think he was one of them.  They didn't think he really believed in the dogma of trickle-down.  They never bought his "New England Texan" act.  Even Nancy Reagan questioned "...kinder and gentler than who?"

        Despite these apprehensions, they held their noses and voted for him, partially because Ronald Reagan asked them to; partially because they wanted to give Reagan a third term; and partially because they were afraid he was the only republican that could win.

        He didn't disappoint them.  He helped the Dems raise taxes.  He stopped short of Bagdad.  He presided over slow growth and recession, and he wasn't nearly as overtly "Christian" as they thought he should be (which is really weird, since Reagan wasn't overtly Christian, either).

        After his first term they abandoned him for Ross Perot, or sat home on election day.  That election let the Dems out of the box Reagan locked them in, and set the table for Obama and a national Dem majority.  After 4 years, GHWB couldn't hold his own coalition, let alone hold the Reagan Dems.

        If we elect Hillary and she disappoints the same way (and why wouldn't she, even her tepid supporters agree she will), the Dem coalition could splinter in 2020, and independents could flee.  Minorities and young voters could stay home.  Suitably chastened like the Dems in 1992, a reformed "Third Way" GOP could get off the mat, and be right back in control all over the country, just in time for redistricting in the states.

        Just sayin'....

        •  Hillary is to the right of GHW Bush (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Richard Villiers, greenbell

          In fact, I'd like someone to make a case she's any more liberal in terms of policy than Bush the Lesser. People forget some of the things he did that would be unimaginable today for a Republican president, like his massive increase in AIDS spending for Africa, increased funding for Headstart, his vocal immigration support, ended federal racial profiling, appointed Supremes widely regarded as moderate at the time (or they claimed to be) and not nearly as conservative as Scalia, and several other things. He even extended federal bebenfits to same sex couples.

          History will not give him a pass for these things in light of the horrendous things he did as well, but his natsec embrace in hindsight pales to its obscene growth and use under Obama.

          I'm not sure anyone can make an honest case that Hillary and any more liberal than Bush II when you objectively view some of the things he did do on race and gender, especially as it is only civil rights where Hillary is seen as being "liberal."

          I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires. - Susan B. Anthony Everything good a man can be, a dog already is. - pajoly

          by pajoly on Thu May 01, 2014 at 11:55:49 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  If you seriously believe that (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Jakeston, anshmishra

            there's just no hope.

            •  Well, make the case (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Richard Villiers

              Ridicule is easy, as the Right makes clear; persuasion takes effort and intellectual honesty. People forget what Bush II did on behalf of LGBT issues. What's Hillary bringing to the table for liberals? She has not even offered policy prescriptions.

              I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires. - Susan B. Anthony Everything good a man can be, a dog already is. - pajoly

              by pajoly on Thu May 01, 2014 at 01:44:04 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  Hmm. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ChuckChuckerson

        My relatives ALL became more liberal in their elder years except one uncle, but then, he is a partner on a local conservative radio talk show. He gets $$ to be like that.

        It depends on the person. I don't know that there is a trend toward conservatism in later life. I mean, with the boomers moving full blown into geezerhood, we better hope that's not the case.

        "Non-violence is a powerful and just weapon which cuts without wounding and ennobles the man who wields it. It is a sword that heals." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

        by Gentle Giant on Thu May 01, 2014 at 11:18:32 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Bingo, regarding number 4, Hillary is MORE (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Richard Villiers, chuck utzman

        conservative than Bill and MUCH more militaristic. Bill's the charming, disarming and empathetic one in that marital set.

        There's not an elected federal Democrat in existence to the right of Hillary. Maybe on a state level Cuomo. People like Lindsey Graham are so close to her right there's nary any daylight.

        From a policy perspective, Hillary is miles closer to McCain and Graham than Warren and Sanders.

        I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires. - Susan B. Anthony Everything good a man can be, a dog already is. - pajoly

        by pajoly on Thu May 01, 2014 at 11:42:59 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Also, people become more conservative (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Richard Villiers

        in the White House because they confront the reality of political deal-making. Hillary is not going to become a progressive. If you're fine with that, great. But I see some people here feeding themselves the fantasy that Hillary will rip off her centrist suit and become a progressive superwoman once elected. Look: even Elizabeth Warren would not be able to do half of what she wants and what you want her to do.

        Ed FitzGerald for governor Of Ohio. Women's lives depend on it. http://www.edfitzgeraldforohio.com/

        by anastasia p on Thu May 01, 2014 at 12:07:50 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Nope, that's just an excuse by regressives (0+ / 0-)

        to justify their regressiveness, like "You'll know better when you're older" and that fabricated Churchill "quote".

  •  "Fresh brand?" (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    CenPhx, JeffW, Gentle Giant, doroma

    In other words Hillary is an old lady.  I'm sick of the disrespect for women.  Seriously.

    The GOP will destroy anything they can't own.

    by AnnieR on Thu May 01, 2014 at 10:40:11 AM PDT

  •  LOL, like anybody on 'the left' gives a flying.... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    elwior, CenPhx, JeffW, dougymi

    ....flaming f** about what the RepubliKKKan party thinks about anybody or anything.

  •  oh, I remember the primary... (10+ / 0-)

    I supported Obama over Hillary and things got so nasty I lost friends over it (but not 'til they behaved like such crazy control-freak assholes I was glad to be unburdened of their co-dependent mental illnesses, which, it turned out in retrospect, had been poisoning my life for a long time anyway).  Yeah, things got nasty, all right.  Really nasty.  It brought out the worst in everybody, me included, even if it did end up working out for the best, definitely for me, and hopefully for them as well.

    But, what the GOP isn't counting on is, the half-life of bitterness is way shorter than 8 years.  And I'll gladly support anybody who'll keep a Republican out of office.  That's the main goal.  It always has been.  I've never been super-duper-crazy-in-love with Democrats... I just know Republicans are an idiot plague who are ruining the country.  I oughtta know - I live in one of their states.  If anybody's still unclear on the results electing Republicans will do for you, just run Mississippi's stats sometime, see where decades of Republican rule have placed us.

    And Hillary seems the most likely to keep Republicans out of power, so, yeah, I have no problem at all with supporting Hillary, all past sandbox-quarrels aside.  I'll vote for her and I'll support her as president - just as I have Obama, who I generally like but has sometimes pissed me off - because I know what the alternative is.   You don't have to love somebody to know when they're the better of the choices that are put before you.  And while Hillary's never been my BFF, she's so much better than any Republican you can name it's silly.  I've got no problem voting for that, with enthusiasm.

    So, sorry, "Reince," if that is indeed your real name (and fuck your cruel parents if it is because, jeez, dude, wasn't "Priebus" bad enough?), you're going to have to find something else to cling to in hopes of saving the GOP's worthless ass.

    "Glenn Beck ends up looking like a fat, stupid child. His face should be wearing a chef's hat on the side of a box of eclairs. " - Doug Stanhope

    by Front Toward Enemy on Thu May 01, 2014 at 10:41:37 AM PDT

  •  Dear Riinse: While you are busy rebranding... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JeffW

    ... you should change your name to something that doesn't sound like the words "Riinse Peenus."

  •  Think about it. (5+ / 0-)

    I suspect that the Republicans may be doing us and the country a favor, possible the first one in a long time, and certainly not intentionally.

    I believe we can do far better than Hillary.  The goal is not simply to put a Dem in the WH. It is to put someone who will guide the country out of the morass it has languished in for the past many years, and dismantle the oligarchy that Obama has helped to ensconce itself at the expense of the middle class.  Picking a retread such as Hillary with a daunting load of political and ethical baggage, no major accomplishments to sustain her through the inevitably punishing examination of her record, which will also likely strain her energy and limited vitality, and an agenda that differs only semantically from that of the slightly less conservative segment of the GOP, is a compromise that could end in disaster.  

    •  Are we talking about the same Hillary Clinton? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Tempus Figits, anshmishra

      "no major accomplishments to sustain her through the inevitably punishing examination of her record"?

      First Lady, healthcare reformer, senator, Secretary of State... that Hillary?

      "Non-violence is a powerful and just weapon which cuts without wounding and ennobles the man who wields it. It is a sword that heals." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

      by Gentle Giant on Thu May 01, 2014 at 11:27:46 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Do you equate positions held with (4+ / 0-)

        accomplishments? What legislation did she accomplish as a senator? What was the outcome of her stint as a healthcare reformer? These are the things you should be touting. I'm not saying she has no accomplishments but you're promoting her as a candidate not me. If you're trying to convince me she's not a wall street tool you'll have to do more than list her positions.

        •  She may be a Wall Street tool. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          anshmishra

          She still put thousands of Arkansans onto healthcare for the first time in their lives and, without time to research and pick specifics, she was highly regarded as Sec of State.

          I get that everyone has their own ideas of who the best candidate would be and their own reasons behind those ideas. I'll count myself among those in this thread that have said the most likely person to beat the republican nominee is the person I want, because with the current state of the GOP, and it's only getting worse, we cannot afford to have a republican president in 2016.

          Right now, that's Hillary, like it/her or not. If Elizabeth Warren hones her chops, decides to run, and we've swung a lot more Americans to Progressivism by 2016, maybe that will change. But if the temperament of this country hasn't moved much by 2016 and barring any actual scandals rather than the pseudo-mud the Right has been slinging at her for nearly a quarter century, Hillary is the best choice and may remain so.

          You know she's tough enough to take anything that's thrown at her. And we should have a pretty good idea that she could serve as POTUS well.
          Quibble over the policies. Write her about what you disagree with, work to move the country in a better direction so the momentum will be improved in 2016.

          Disparaging our current best shot at retaining the White House into 2020 doesn't help much.

          "Non-violence is a powerful and just weapon which cuts without wounding and ennobles the man who wields it. It is a sword that heals." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

          by Gentle Giant on Thu May 01, 2014 at 01:52:07 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Those are "titles"--not accomplishments. N/T (3+ / 0-)

        Mollie

        "Only he who can see the invisible, can do the impossible."-- Frank L. Gaines


        hiddennplainsight--Relaunched 2014!

        by musiccitymollie on Thu May 01, 2014 at 12:56:30 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes, they're titles. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          musiccitymollie

          That doesn't mean there are no accomplishments behind them.

          "Non-violence is a powerful and just weapon which cuts without wounding and ennobles the man who wields it. It is a sword that heals." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

          by Gentle Giant on Thu May 01, 2014 at 01:52:56 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  It was your argument--not mine. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Richard Villiers

            BTW, when did expressing serious concerns over specific policies (which I did in my comments about the conservadem Senators and King, regarding the ACA) get classified as "quibbling?"

            I guess I didn't get that memo . . .

            ;-D

            Mollie

            "Only he who can see the invisible, can do the impossible."-- Frank L. Gaines


            hiddennplainsight--Relaunched 2014!

            by musiccitymollie on Thu May 01, 2014 at 02:00:55 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I lost the thread & train of thought. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              musiccitymollie

              Did I call something quibbling?

              "Non-violence is a powerful and just weapon which cuts without wounding and ennobles the man who wields it. It is a sword that heals." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

              by Gentle Giant on Fri May 02, 2014 at 08:52:16 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Ah, found it. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              musiccitymollie

              I wasn't referring to anything anyone said as "quibbling". I meant that we should quibble about the policies of our candidates, but in the meantime, support the best person who can beat the GOP.

              Some have said they won't vote for Hillary no matter what. Fantastic. I've had to hold my nose when voting many times, just to ensure the worse person doesn't get in.

              Abstaining from voting, IMO, is tantamount to abstaining from citizenship.

              "Non-violence is a powerful and just weapon which cuts without wounding and ennobles the man who wields it. It is a sword that heals." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

              by Gentle Giant on Fri May 02, 2014 at 08:57:37 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  What part (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Tempus Figits, anshmishra

      of raising the capital gains tax rate by 50% and top tax brackets to 40%  is the Presidents plan to help the oligarchy?

      Yes, I know that some on the left wanted the President to nationalize the banks and emprison the wealthy, but that kind of revolution comes with mass violence only

      But yes, lets just get Liz Warren in there and the banks will be nationalized and Wall St will be headed to prison in handcuffs, even without any trials.

      Preibus might be right....the Left might just be dumb enough to match the teapartyers in helping to lose elections and turn the SCOTUS into 9 Scalia clones...now that would be special.

  •  I know when I'm looking for news about Democrats (4+ / 0-)

    I always go to the chair of the publican party.  But I'm weird like that.  When looking for news about the Detroit Tigers I always look at the White Sox website too!

    A learning experience is one of those things that says, 'You know that thing you just did? Don't do that.' Douglas Adams

    by dougymi on Thu May 01, 2014 at 10:46:14 AM PDT

  •  I am looking for another, fresh brand to support (3+ / 0-)

    over @Hillary

    Congratulations Rinse on being right for once in your pasty life.

    Hillary does not have the benefit of a glib tongue.

    by The Dead Man on Thu May 01, 2014 at 11:00:58 AM PDT

  •  Wisconsin Hat Trick (2+ / 0-)

    Priebus, Walker, and Ryan: three hockey pucks made of hard shit. I live in WI and love hockey, but this is getting hard to take being associated with these goofballs.

  •  Well, it worked for us (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Gentle Giant, JeffW, Richard Villiers

    branding Romney in 2012.  Why shouldn't they give it a go?

    BTW, 2016 is 2 years away.  This is all about positioning.  I'd be more worried about 2014 quite frankly.

    "When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains, And the women come out to cut up what remains, Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains An' go to your Gawd like a soldier." Rudyard Kipling

    by EdMass on Thu May 01, 2014 at 11:11:40 AM PDT

  •  to say that the gop (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Gentle Giant

    are concerned if not afraid of hillary would be stating the obvious so i won't.

    save america defeat all republicans and conservatives

    •  No, they're not afraid of Hillary (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Richard Villiers

      They're afraid of the mess their own party is in. They are afraid of the teabaggers and the crazies they let in the door who took over the party.

      Ed FitzGerald for governor Of Ohio. Women's lives depend on it. http://www.edfitzgeraldforohio.com/

      by anastasia p on Thu May 01, 2014 at 12:13:32 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  are they trying to say she is not Status Quo? (0+ / 0-)

    more of the same, neo-liberal type leadership?

    What are they trying to say, she is an outsider?

    Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell. --Edward Abbey

    by greenbastard on Thu May 01, 2014 at 11:27:54 AM PDT

  •  Reince got his ammo here at the Kos (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Hawkjt

    Christ, counting up the Hillary-sucks diaries takes forever, let alone the comments.

    The Kossack Purity Brigades will give Mr. RNC-PR-BS and the Beltway press their Dems-in-disarray applause lines for the next two-and-a-half years.

  •  In terms of Rebranding... (0+ / 0-)

    In at least one way Hillary is an outsider...

    In the last Century, for every president who became president by being elected...

    Every Democrat has been younger than 53 at their first inauguration.
    Every Republican has been younger than 53 at their first inauguration...

    Last elected president who didn't fit this was Woodrow Wilson.

    (The "by being elected" excludes Coolidge, Truman, LBJ and Ford)

  •  One note to folks: give his damned name a rest (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Richard Villiers, anshmishra

    Give his name a rest. It's not like he had any say in the matter and it lowers the discourse. I'm pretty sure you'd respond aggressively to people attacking folks for foreign-sounding names....Barack Obama, for example....

    The idiot gives ample reasons to reject, slam and otherwise detest him, so stop acting like Red Staters if you please.

    I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires. - Susan B. Anthony Everything good a man can be, a dog already is. - pajoly

    by pajoly on Thu May 01, 2014 at 12:13:01 PM PDT

  •  I've been asking my friends (0+ / 0-)

    who are long time Democrats, who love Obama, what they think of Clinton or Warren. Most are not enthused about Hillary, and like Warren but think Warren can not win because she is too liberal.

    I'd rather keep Warren in the Senate, where she can do more.

    HIllary is a blue dog, and can get indpdndent votes but If the republicans come up with a decent candidate, say Jeb Bush, he could pull all  those independents & moderate republican votes fomr Hillary.

    Democrats have a majority but the left wing Democrats are so unpredictable when it comes to voting.

    •  If you could do more in the Senate I guarantee (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Richard Villiers

      you Senator Clinton would never have left it and Bill would have shoved Schumer out of the way so he could be there too.

    •  Maybe they should consider changing parties, if (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Richard Villiers, pajoly

      they are "conservadems."

      If anything, the Democratic Party needs to rid itself of conservative politicians and voters.

      That's how we got where we are today, for Pete's Sake!

      (i.e., how the Democratic Party became more and more a "corporatist neoliberal Party," instead of the Party of FDR and LBJ.)

      Most complaints that I see in the progressive blogging community are that the Dem Party has "moved too far to the right--not too far to the left."

      ;-D

      Mollie

      "Only he who can see the invisible, can do the impossible."-- Frank L. Gaines


      hiddennplainsight--Relaunched 2014!

      by musiccitymollie on Thu May 01, 2014 at 12:54:42 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Perhaps if the Democratic party would (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Free Jazz at High Noon

      show consistency in putting forth progressive candidates 'left wing Democrats' would be more predictable in voting. Personally, I'm tired of being told to vote for the bucket of warm spit because the Republicans have put forth a bucket of steaming shit.

      •  Then don't. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        anshmishra

        It is obvious that you desire a far left party.  If you can't bring yourself to support what the majority of people within the United States does, than go ahead and stop supporting Democrats because they are not sufficiently "liberal" enough for you.  Also, don't let the door hit you on the way out.  I, for one, am getting tired of explaining what your options are and why Democrats are the best party to vote for if you want progress with liberal policies.

        But please, wallow in your purity.  My wife has Canadian citizenship and when the Republicans turn this country into their every man for themselves state (which I might add you are openly espousing yourself, after all why should you vote for Democrats...)  My family will be up in Canada and if the U.S. has gone too far, immigrate from there into a saner portion of the British Commonwealth.

        However, I have decided to stop coddling idiots like you.  We tried it your way with letting Republicans win and the Bush years showed that the price was too high.  The fact that you are too thick headed to realize that doubling down on a bad bet is throwing good money after bad tells me that I don't want to put any more effort in you.

        A person's character is measured by how they treat everyone. Not just your pet group.

        by Tempus Figits on Thu May 01, 2014 at 03:58:43 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Here we go again. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Richard Villiers

    Reince is right that there is a internal party debate on Clinton.  Why is that supposedly a bad thing?  It's not like the Republican clown car isn't also going to have another go where they try to outdo each other on how socially Darwinian they can be for their tin foil hat wearing base.

    That being said - Nothing irks me more than the "Everyone must line up behind Clinton now!" patricians - 2 plus years out from the primary.

    Let's face it - the Overton window within the Democratic party itself has changed.  Todays "centrists" like Hillary and todays "liberals" like Elizabeth Warren don't match up where the party was a few decades ago, before the Turd Wayers, before the DLC, before the Reagan Dems.  The party itself has moved rightward.

    Some of us simply remember where the party used to stand on the issues, and consider that position to be a "centrist" Dem.  That means Democrats like Hillary are not going to be our preferred candidate.

    Take a look at the Political Compass and see where Obama or Hillary fall.  They're no longer on the left side of the dividing line, much less being "center left."  Even somebody like Warren isn't going to plot all that far on the left side of the dividing line.

    As a traditional liberal, my opinions don't move with the Overton window.  I'm squarely in the camp that still believes in the New Deal, in unions, in redistributionary progressive taxation schemes, in government as the solution to many of our problems, in well-funded public schools, in Social Security, in a minimum wage that provides for at least an entry level middle class lifestyle for anyone willing to work 40 hours a week....

    That puts me dead center on the left hand side of the Political Compass.  That also means I'm not going to be a fan of Hillary.

    Many people feel this way.  And we are far enough out from the 2016 election that we can have a discussion about the direction of the party - and vicariously, who our candidate should be - without handing the election to whoever wins the Republican clown car race.

    As such, who gives a shit what the flagman of the Republican clown car race has to say at this point?  Let's let him worry about his own racers.  His opinion should mean nothing to us right now.  When it boils right down to it, he's simply trying to give those in his party hope where there likely is none by trying to paint our internal discussion as a massive battle amongst Democrats, when that really isn't the case.  Some of the pro-Hillary, "get in line right NOW" patricians might view it that way, but the rest of us let out a collective yawn.

    This is a nothingburger.

    "There was no such thing as a "wealthy" hunter-gatherer. It is the creation of human society that has allowed the wealthy to become wealthy. As such, they have an obligation to pay a bit more to sustain that society than the not-so-wealthy." - Me

    by Darth Stateworker on Thu May 01, 2014 at 04:34:51 PM PDT

      •  Thank you. (2+ / 0-)

        At the end of the day, we're all on the same team.

        There's no reason to figuratively beat the living shit out of each other because we have varied ideas on the direction we'd like the party to take, as so many of the rox/sux threads seem to end up like.

        We don't need a "centrist" purity police, and we don't need a "lefty" purity police.  Doing so makes us no different than those on the right constantly calling each other RINOs and such.

        I'd like to think we, as Democrats, can rise above such nonsense and simply have an intelligent discussion on the direction of our party in general - especially this far out from a presidential election.  We can certainly do it without the vitriol I see above.

        "There was no such thing as a "wealthy" hunter-gatherer. It is the creation of human society that has allowed the wealthy to become wealthy. As such, they have an obligation to pay a bit more to sustain that society than the not-so-wealthy." - Me

        by Darth Stateworker on Thu May 01, 2014 at 05:07:40 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  GOP politicians play off Democrats because (0+ / 0-)

    they have nothing new to say, nothing to offer, such as increasing minimum wage, trying to change our f'd up healthcare system, climate change discussion, improving life for gays, equal pay for women, etc. Their pundits are laughable. Fox, Glenn Beck et al start these serious conversations as if they had a point, and wind up discussing Democrats. They can't mention their last President, GWB.  Palin is an embarrassment and they ran her for VP of the country. They don't even like their own candidates. How do you come on strong behind a Mike Huckabee, for example? The GOP is kept afloat by rural Red State and Evangelical voters, and little else. They managed to own the Supreme Court for years, doing a lot of damage. If Hillary can beat them for President, more power to her, because those fools are going to keep the House and the Senate has enough of them to keep us from making progress, even if they don't get a majority. Too many people are so ignorant, politically, it is pathetic. It is imperative, to me that Democrats win the Presidency and the Supreme Court.

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