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First, it's not about secrets.  It's that we're fools.  Treated like fools, act like fools.

The underlying theme of this is that it isn't about Snowden, it isn't about Drake or Binney or any of them.  It's not even about a secret.  Risen told you.  Comey told you.  Damn, Ashcroft told you.  And we simply wouldn't listen.  We simply trusted.  Surely it either didn't happen as reported or it had been fixed.

Well, it had been fixed.  Fixed so that even when some in the Office of Legal Counsel  said no, when the attorney general and two dozen top attorney generals said no and threatened mass resignation, it went ahead.  Hayden holds ex partes with the FISC judge (Kollar something--shouldn't be a judge or otherwise associated with the law in any way imho) on two Saturdays and she reimplements the very program some in the OLC and the attorney general found illegal.

Obama promises transparency and accountability and comporting with the law and fundamental rights  He then signs off on keeping the program.  He and Holder nearly harass Thomas Drake to death and then drop the charges just before the trial.  Holder should not be the AG.

Lessons:  never, ever trust politicians.  They lie to us much more readily than they tell the truth. We are to be used.  They don't care about protecting us.  They care about their power and their fear and manipulating ours.  

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Comment Preferences

  •  Bush Administration Was Chaotic Clusterfuck (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    elwior, Pluto

    .. and at least half the time it seems to have been teetering on the edge of collapse.

    Men are so necessarily mad, that not to be mad would amount to another form of madness. -Pascal

    by bernardpliers on Tue May 13, 2014 at 10:49:56 PM PDT

  •  At least we knew where we stood with Bush.... (15+ / 0-)

    He only spoke out of one side of his mouth.

    •  We know where we stand with Obama (17+ / 0-)

      And who he stands with and it isn't us or the Bill of Rights or the Constitution.
      I actually believed in his Hope and Change campaign in 08, but after his 1st sellout with the FISA bill he promised to filibuster, then his cabinet picks, then the rest of his betrayals, I never believe a word he says anymore.
      I really thought we had a chance to undo the damage Bush did to our country when we elected Obama.
      But except for a few minor social issues, it is just more of the same shit we got under Bush.
      Except Obama has expanded on US militarization around the world.
      And if the treasonous TPP passes, we can kiss what is left of the US goodbye.
      Now I will patiently wait for his defenders to come and tell me he is the best president ever.

      Nobel peace prize winner Barack Obama did not just pick up that 3:00 am phone call, but, as has been noted, he mostly stayed on the phone making war and sending out drones for his entire terms in office.

      by snoopydawg on Wed May 14, 2014 at 12:43:13 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Barack Obama may not be the best president (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        StrayCat, Black Mare

        But he certainly is by far the Better President when compared to his predecessor in any metric you care to apply.  Richard Bruce Cheney should have been arrested, tried, convicted, and shot for the damage he has done to the United States and the world.   Richard Bruce Cheney is the benchmark World Class perpetrator of crimes against humanity.

        •  Any metric? (4+ / 1-)

          What about prosecuting whistleblowers?  What about threatening to prosecute journalists?  What about killing American citizens without benefit of trial?

          I never thought any president could be worse than Bush, but I was wrong.

          The influence of the [executive] has increased, is increasing, and ought to be diminished.

          by lysias on Wed May 14, 2014 at 08:26:27 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  What about (versus Bush) (0+ / 0-)

            Women's rights

            Gay rights

            Equal pay

            Starting endless wars

            Torture policy (it was Republicans who blocked the closing of Guantanamo)

            There are other policies, but the results are the same.

            Bush (Cheney) was far worse.  And the police were militarized to a new high under BushCheney; it became normalized and I don't see much outrage by average people who should be complaining.

            But thank you for your concern.

            I think Israel (and/or AIPAC) has a large and problematic influence on our foreign policy and legislation as it relates to Iran and the Middle East. Since I've been hidden for saying this, I expect to be hidden every time I post with this sig.

            by Black Mare on Wed May 14, 2014 at 04:29:55 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  I do not necessarily agree with the sentiments (0+ / 0-)

            of the post, but the hr seems bogus, based on disagreement and not the basis for any true HR.

            I'll tell you what justice is. Justice is a knee in the gut from the floor on the chin at night sneaky with a knife brought up down on the magazine of a battleship sandbagged underhanded in the dark without a word of warning.

            by BFSkinner on Thu May 15, 2014 at 03:02:39 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  I guess... (3+ / 0-)

          ...I'd rather have the clap than Herpes.

          Um, you do know who gave Richard Bruce Cheney his "Get out of Jail Free" card, right?

          So endith the trick.

          by itsjim on Wed May 14, 2014 at 09:46:14 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  He promised to veto FISA. The bill passed the (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Claudius Bombarnac, Tortmaster

        Senate with 88 or 90 votes, making it veto proof. He did a signing agreement saying his administration would not detain americans without due process.  This is tea party shit. Irrational hyperbole. This is bat shit crazy.

      •  Minor social issues? (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Claudius Bombarnac, Tortmaster

        To some of us they aren't minor.

        I think Israel (and/or AIPAC) has a large and problematic influence on our foreign policy and legislation as it relates to Iran and the Middle East. Since I've been hidden for saying this, I expect to be hidden every time I post with this sig.

        by Black Mare on Wed May 14, 2014 at 04:32:15 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Was just wondering if there would be silence here (18+ / 0-)

    on this profoundly disturbing PBS documentary, because it is so inconvenient for the meme that Barack Obama is a Progressive Democrat who cares about Civil Liberties, and the American Constitution.

    He's not.

    And he obviously doesn't.  

    At least in comparison to his personal fear of bucking the Security State.

    This presidency will remain a black hole for the Progressive movement in the Democratic Party.  

    And with the apathy about the continuation of the illegal activities begun during the Bush/Cheney junta, by the Obama administration, even around here, where nominal "Progressives" would be presumed to congregate, it's not looking good for the future of Constitutionally protected freedom, and Civil Liberties in the USA.

    •  I don't think there are many liberals here... (20+ / 0-)

      still with any illusions about our federal government, and those running it.

      It's become obvious (at least to me) that our government has become a turnkey operation that demands of our titular heads of state -- at least where "national security" is concerned -- that he/she must defer to a shadow regime consisting of MIC corporatists and loyal technocrats in pursuit of their own agenda.

      Welcome to the 21st Century.

      "If one would give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest man, I would find something in them to have him hanged." - 17th-century French clergyman and statesman Cardinal Richelieu.

      by markthshark on Wed May 14, 2014 at 12:02:56 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The key word is 'liberals'. (10+ / 0-)

        There are still too many democrats here that would disagree with you.
        I am not one of them.
        And people really think Hillary will be a great president and change the turnkey operation.

        Nobel peace prize winner Barack Obama did not just pick up that 3:00 am phone call, but, as has been noted, he mostly stayed on the phone making war and sending out drones for his entire terms in office.

        by snoopydawg on Wed May 14, 2014 at 12:47:56 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Those would be well-intentioned people... (11+ / 0-)

          clearly looking at our politics through partisan eyes.

          And people really think Hillary will be a great president and change the turnkey operation.
          Whereas, after reconciling all that's happened to our political system over the past thirty-years... mine eyes are jaded.

          A Democrat in the White House cannot change the system. Only a grass/net-roots movement that includes Democrats can achieve that change.

          "If one would give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest man, I would find something in them to have him hanged." - 17th-century French clergyman and statesman Cardinal Richelieu.

          by markthshark on Wed May 14, 2014 at 01:11:06 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I am not disagreeing, but--Who else you got to run (0+ / 0-)

            That has a snowball's chance in hell of winning?

            Hillary's healthcare plan was a helluva lot better than Obama's stab at Romney Care. I see a lot of complaining and slamming Hillary, but it seemed to me that she ran on better planks than Obama. People sought to avoid what she represented by voting for him, and look what we got?

            So what's your plan?

            "It were a thousand times better for the land if all Witches, but especially the blessing Witch, might suffer death." qtd by Ehrenreich & English. For Her Own Good, Two Centuries of Expert's Advice to Women pp 40

            by GreenMother on Wed May 14, 2014 at 05:24:31 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Who else, indeed (5+ / 0-)

              I am so sick of this self-fulfilling prophecy. Too damned many Democrats continue to fall under its idiocy.

              Who else you got to run that has a snowball's chance in hell of winning
              It is time to start demanding that this party's "apparatus" or "leadership" start putting up more than one candidate. Otherwise, they are useless and shouldn't be given the power they have.

              "Inevitability" diminishes free will and replaces it with self-fulfilling prophecies."--Geenius At Wrok

              by lunachickie on Wed May 14, 2014 at 06:35:44 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  You people are fringe and no one in the party is (0+ / 0-)

                going to listen to you.  You hate the president, the party, and constantly preach about their evil . Democrats have seen the what  fringe ideologues cost the republicans. I don't think they will make the same mistake.

                •  What's this "you people" crap? (0+ / 0-)

                  Stop your lying. It's not "hate" to point out obvious problems. That the problems just never cease is not the fault of anyone pointing it out.

                  But don't let me stop you from wallowing in the idea that "you people" point these things out because they "hate".  That's just laughable, but you're entitled to a laughable opinion, too.

                  "Inevitability" diminishes free will and replaces it with self-fulfilling prophecies."--Geenius At Wrok

                  by lunachickie on Wed May 14, 2014 at 03:09:33 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  Falling for what again? WTH (0+ / 0-)

                we don't have to agree on everything but that doesn't make either of us idiots.

                "It were a thousand times better for the land if all Witches, but especially the blessing Witch, might suffer death." qtd by Ehrenreich & English. For Her Own Good, Two Centuries of Expert's Advice to Women pp 40

                by GreenMother on Wed May 14, 2014 at 02:09:14 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  For the idea that (0+ / 0-)

                  "There's just nobody better". NONSENSE. Our party needs to stop whining that "there's nobody better" any time someone complains. That is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

                  Which, btw, has nothing to do with "disagreement".

                  "Inevitability" diminishes free will and replaces it with self-fulfilling prophecies."--Geenius At Wrok

                  by lunachickie on Wed May 14, 2014 at 03:12:05 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Still talking down to me AND misconstruing (0+ / 0-)

                    what I wrote.

                    Step back from the keyboard, and look at something positive and life affirming and consider that I am not your enemy and not interested in undermining your personal political activism.

                    "It were a thousand times better for the land if all Witches, but especially the blessing Witch, might suffer death." qtd by Ehrenreich & English. For Her Own Good, Two Centuries of Expert's Advice to Women pp 40

                    by GreenMother on Thu May 15, 2014 at 04:49:47 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

            •  Elizabeth Warren. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              GreenMother

              Patriotism may be the last refuge of scoundrels, but religion is assuredly the first.

              by StrayCat on Wed May 14, 2014 at 09:00:01 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Only if she runs. If she does--great I will be (0+ / 0-)

                there with bells on.

                But if she doesn't--then who

                It's good to have at least a handful of candidates. One name is very short list indeed.

                And who would be her running mate out of curiosity?

                "It were a thousand times better for the land if all Witches, but especially the blessing Witch, might suffer death." qtd by Ehrenreich & English. For Her Own Good, Two Centuries of Expert's Advice to Women pp 40

                by GreenMother on Wed May 14, 2014 at 02:10:15 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

      •  The shadow government (4+ / 0-)

        has been running things since (at least) halfway through the last century. It's nothing new. It's just less secret these days. Which matters not at all, since they still get to run things their way, and temporary executive administrations must still do its bidding.

        There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. - Will Rogers

        by Joieau on Wed May 14, 2014 at 07:37:13 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I always find it curios that Americans (6+ / 0-)

      …think that their presidents have power over Our Overlords.

      That is sooo 1960.

      Who was the last president that ever bucked the trend? Or tried to? Jimmy Carter?

      I can't bring myself to criticize President Obama over matters where he clearly has no control.

      •  I can. (8+ / 0-)

        I have no trouble criticizing. That job is supposed to be the head of the people who consented to be governed. I sure as hell didn't consent to be a corporate wage slave or surveillance candy.

        "It were a thousand times better for the land if all Witches, but especially the blessing Witch, might suffer death." qtd by Ehrenreich & English. For Her Own Good, Two Centuries of Expert's Advice to Women pp 40

        by GreenMother on Wed May 14, 2014 at 05:25:55 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  As former President Johnson said (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        TracieLynn, CroneWit
        "Hell," Johnson replied, "What's the presidency for?"
      •  I think that last POTUS (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        StrayCat, Pluto

        who tried to buck the trend was John Kennedy. We all know what happened to him. And his brother, who represented a 'possible danger' to the Overlords in '68.

        Nowdays the 'possibly dangerous' candidates simply don't get the nomination in the first place, and that gets justified via manipulation of numbers (votes, polls) portrayed by the erstwhile Fourth Estate as forever 50-50 so less than a handful of 'swing' gets to defeat the popular will.

        There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. - Will Rogers

        by Joieau on Wed May 14, 2014 at 07:44:57 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  No control? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        StrayCat

        Just take a look at the Constitution.  The President has all the power in the world.  It's just that this president -- like his predecessors -- chooses, for whatever reason, not to exercise that power.

        The influence of the [executive] has increased, is increasing, and ought to be diminished.

        by lysias on Wed May 14, 2014 at 08:29:36 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  profoundly disturbing, chilling (14+ / 0-)

      documentary that should be a part of civics classes in this country starting now.

      I felt absolutely chilled last night watching it.

      That once upon a time there were those in government,  those strong voices willing to speak up, who were then threatened, silenced, harassed.

      And now there are fewer voices coming forward and those who do are still being vilified.

      After the documentary ended, I felt lost and sad, weary, disgusted with what this country has become.

      _______________The DOD/ War Department, which consumes 22% of the national budget, is the world's largest employer with 3.2 million employees.

      by allenjo on Wed May 14, 2014 at 04:07:58 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Under Hope and Change.... (11+ / 0-)

        it is now illegal for any current or former member of the intelligence community to even admit that Greenwald wrote a book.  America, fuck yeah.

        The most un-convincable man is the one whose paycheck depends on remaining unconvinced. -- H. L. Mencken

        by kharma on Wed May 14, 2014 at 06:13:50 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  "Hope and Change" (tm) never to be used without (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          stevemb, kharma, StrayCat

          the permission of the Obama administration, who might like to withhold permission to do so, less people actually start believing again that those words meant something.

          America, fuck yeah.

          _______________The DOD/ War Department, which consumes 22% of the national budget, is the world's largest employer with 3.2 million employees.

          by allenjo on Wed May 14, 2014 at 07:20:35 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  I haven't watched the show yet, but PBS (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Claudius Bombarnac, Garrett, artisan

        does a lot of mood-manipulation (imo) in any show about a serious subject, through their background music.

        'What?' you'll say, 'have you lost your mind?'  No.  I lived for more than a decade (starting Fall 2001) with only PBS, and would have the TV on all the time.  So I was exposed to the 'big' evening shows twice -- the evening, and the following afternoon (and sometimes a third time on Sunday).  Because I'm isolated and mostly housebound, I have to watch my mood carefully, and I've always paid attention to sound/music (from a musical family).

        One day I noticed the soundtrack of a 'serious' show as a distinct thing, not just as un-noticed background.  And I recognized the somber, minor-key, downward-sliding music was built to engineer emotion -- and that the particular combination of emotions that this music was designed to elicit was as you describe -- 'lost, sad, weary, disgusted', helpless and hopeless -- 'What's the use?  Big scary Others have all the power and I can do nothing.'  Helpless dread.

        Frontline uses this technique in a big way.  So, if you watch it again, try to listen consciously to the background music -- and be aware that the music is another message being delivered along with the words/pics.

  •  The poison beings,, as earliest we know, with (6+ / 0-)

    Nixon, and his attack on leakers, which lead to Watergate, and the effort to bribe the judge presiding over the Ellsberg trial.

    In that administration were:

    Rumsfeld.

    Cheney.

    When the Bushit criminal enterprise bullied and stole its way into office, and began its reign of torture, John Dean said that they were a cancer on the gov't foreign to our system of laws.

    It would be difficult to find a more person of greater hate for the US than Dick "Dick" Cheney.  I'd give that "credit" to Bushit were he not a half-wit of the first order.

    Under Bushit the "program" was illegal.  At the end of his second term, her persuaded the Congress to make it legal; and that is the "program" as President Obama inherited it: as "legal".  Is the Republican't-controlled Congress, which bases its politics -- its extremist politics -- on terrorizing the polity, going to repeal that law?  

    This is the country of those three great rights: freedom of conscience, freedom of speech, and the wisdom never to exercise either of them. -- Mark Twain.

    by JJustin on Wed May 14, 2014 at 01:02:49 AM PDT

    •  Senator Obama was one of those in Congress (10+ / 0-)

      "persuaded" to make the program legal. He is complicit.

      A proud member of the Professional Left since 1967.

      by slatsg on Wed May 14, 2014 at 02:46:38 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yes, he voted for it. And if he hadn't it (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Musial, StillAmused

        would have passed anyway.

        I'm not defending it.  But at least he is doing what that law makes "legal".  Under the Constitution, the more we learn about the program -- it was established by the unelected Bushit criminal enterprise -- the more we recognize that that law is unconstitutional, therefore null-and-void.  But it remains "legal" unless and until a court rules that it is unconstitutional.

        This is the country of those three great rights: freedom of conscience, freedom of speech, and the wisdom never to exercise either of them. -- Mark Twain.

        by JJustin on Wed May 14, 2014 at 02:59:06 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  not legal if Congress says so, can overrule (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          lunachickie

          Court, abrogate any decisions to the contrary. Citizen failure to understand the constitution is what invites illegality.

          •  Yes, the Congress can overturn the SC -- (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Musial

            a fact alleged Constittuion law professor Robert Bork didn't seem to know:

            While the Congress was overturning the Grove College line of cases, and poking the court in the eye with both the "Civil Rights Restoration Act" of 1985, and the ADA, he was bumming his book based upon his assertion that there's a need to amend the Constitution so that Congress can overturn the SC . . .

            This is the country of those three great rights: freedom of conscience, freedom of speech, and the wisdom never to exercise either of them. -- Mark Twain.

            by JJustin on Wed May 14, 2014 at 10:01:09 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  It IS unconstitutional right now and illegal (5+ / 0-)

          The Bush admin broke the law and the Obama admin is upholding their crime.

          •  It is presumptively Constitutional unless and (0+ / 0-)

            until a court rules otherwise.

            And you are praying to nonexistent angels if you believe that the Republican't-controlled Congress -- it's whole basis for governance being to terrorize the polity with constant extremist warnings about  -- is going to repeal the law, or the SC is going to subvert and negate a tool central to the right-wing politics of fear.

            This is the country of those three great rights: freedom of conscience, freedom of speech, and the wisdom never to exercise either of them. -- Mark Twain.

            by JJustin on Wed May 14, 2014 at 10:03:50 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Then what we need is a constitutional lawyer... (0+ / 0-)
    •  ? (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Agathena, lunachickie, unfangus
      Is the Republican't-controlled Congress, which bases its politics -- its extremist politics -- on terrorizing the polity, going to repeal that law?  

      _______________The DOD/ War Department, which consumes 22% of the national budget, is the world's largest employer with 3.2 million employees.

      by allenjo on Wed May 14, 2014 at 04:11:21 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  And the children of agents of J Edgar Hoover. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      J M F

      "It were a thousand times better for the land if all Witches, but especially the blessing Witch, might suffer death." qtd by Ehrenreich & English. For Her Own Good, Two Centuries of Expert's Advice to Women pp 40

      by GreenMother on Wed May 14, 2014 at 05:26:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Hooverville ring any bells? (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Agathena, Susipsych, snoopydawg

        Because our current financial mire, that we exist in, and the attack on the New Deal is pushing us all back to the Hoovervilles.

        I would find that ironic except that it's far more creepy and prophetic.

        "It were a thousand times better for the land if all Witches, but especially the blessing Witch, might suffer death." qtd by Ehrenreich & English. For Her Own Good, Two Centuries of Expert's Advice to Women pp 40

        by GreenMother on Wed May 14, 2014 at 05:27:28 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  As I've said here for Years... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kharma, unfangus, stevemb

    when it comes to certain major policies, it does not matter who occupies the White House, which political party.

    The policies simply continue on and on.

    "We are beyond law, which is not unusual for an empire; unfortunately, we are also beyond common sense." Gore Vidal

    by Superpole on Wed May 14, 2014 at 03:46:50 AM PDT

  •  We're so lucky here at Dk. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    stevemb

    To have all these people speaking for the "true" Democrats and the "true" Liberals.

    We're fools whether we dance or not, so we might as well dance.

    by PowWowPollock on Wed May 14, 2014 at 05:25:37 AM PDT

  •  A chilling, disturbing portrait (7+ / 0-)

    of an unabashedly criminal administration, its offenses so egregious that some dyed-in-the-wool 'conservatives' within the system became heroes in their ill-fated attempts to call out the criminals.

    ... and I found myself wondering how the 'carry-over' culprits — most notoriously, the alarmingly icy Michael Hayden — must have rushed in on Obama with their Dr. Strangelove 'data' and massaged him until they had him convinced, too.

    The fact that Holder finally, in the last frame, dropped the charges against Drake was the only glimmer of hope that the house lights are finally coming up in the current administration.

    More than an indictment of Obama, 'United States Of Secrets' is a frightening illumination of the intelligence monolith that, having been turned loose by the likes of Dick Cheney and David Addington, will fight — tooth and nail — for its own survival and suffocate any occupant of the White House in a fog of ominous 'threats' and manipulated 'data'.

    •  that was a glimmer of hope? (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TracieLynn, J M F, stevemb, snoopydawg

      For a case they could not win??

      The fact that Holder finally, in the last frame, dropped the charges against Drake was the only glimmer of hope that the house lights are finally coming up in the current administration.
      Who turned it loose is looking backward, not forward as we know this president chooses to do.

      So we have to hold this administration, this president accountable now -  for actions that are now more than ever a clear and present danger to our democracy -   that should still believe in our constitution.

      Making laws to circumvent it doesn't give us faith or trust in our government.

      _______________The DOD/ War Department, which consumes 22% of the national budget, is the world's largest employer with 3.2 million employees.

      by allenjo on Wed May 14, 2014 at 06:23:21 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  "Looking backward" is what (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        unfangus, stevemb

        criminal courts do — every day — in "our democracy".

        "Looking forward" is a political declaration.

        Am I disappointed in the Obama administration, to the extent it's been pulled into the institutional 'intelligence' vortex that awaited it? Surely.

        Do I see any equivalency between this administration's choppy efforts to extract itself from that vortex and the pedal-to-the-metal criminality of the administration that created it?

        Not hardly.

        •  Seems the financial crimes division of the DOJ (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          stevemb, quill, snoopydawg

          never got the memo.

          "Looking backward" is what criminal courts do — every day — in "our democracy".
          If a politician, say one President Obama, declares loudly enough, the mantra of looking forward becomes official DOJ policy.
          "Looking forward" is a political declaration.

          _______________The DOD/ War Department, which consumes 22% of the national budget, is the world's largest employer with 3.2 million employees.

          by allenjo on Wed May 14, 2014 at 07:26:23 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I'm sure you'd have (0+ / 0-)

            preferred that Obama open his first term by prosecuting the bankers (the trials and appeals would still be making great television on Court TV) while the world's economy slipped under the waves and, while he was at it, bring criminal charges against his predecessors in the White House.

            Think you saw right-wing hostility directed at the first Black president from Day One? There would've been open gunfire on Pennsylvania Avenue... all those Bundyville militia types, goaded on by a psychotic GOP.

            Political reality can be such a drag...

        •  Do you honestly believe (0+ / 0-)

          the shadow govenment/secrecy regime was created by Cheney and The Shrub? Really?

          There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. - Will Rogers

          by Joieau on Wed May 14, 2014 at 07:57:47 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  In its present, (0+ / 0-)

            over-the-top, digitally malignant state, most certainly.

            ... or didn't you catch the documentary, particularly its focus on Cheney and Addington?

            The monster they unleashed was enough to make John Ashcroft sit up in his sick bed. That's sayin' something!

            •  "Digitally malignant" is just (0+ / 0-)

              expansion of digital data. Which they were "on" from the beginning. Of course they take advantage of it - and our participation in it - as well as big data storage developments and stuff. Hell, they had a big hand in the development of computers in the first place, as well as automated switching back in Land Line days. I had a lineman come check our lines for taps back in '72 due to clicks and whistles, he couldn't find any. Told me that "taps these days," if they're legal, are done at the switching facilities and we aren't supposed to hear it. But, he said, no worries. They only do that if you're a notable criminal or a nuclear sub sailor or something...

              There were 5 nuclear sub sailors sharing the house at the time. Back in Apollo days my Dad (NIS before going corporate engineering) spent quite a lot of time in Dallas at TI on his way to and from Houston. Developed the ceramics for the heat shielding. And, at TI, the computers. All of a piece. Now they're developing quantum computing. That'll up their capabilities - for data storage and encryption breaking - exponentially.

              Then someday, when that tech is at least a decade old on your devices, regular people will begin to suspect the ebil gub'ment might be trying to use it against the people in some 4th amendment violating way... By then they'll be 20 years ahead on the next development.

              This crap's been going on for a long time. You're just hearing about it more because they've no reason to keep it secret anymore. Given that the POINT is to make you afraid of them and all. Toe the line, puny human, and we might not destroy your life just because we can...

              There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. - Will Rogers

              by Joieau on Wed May 14, 2014 at 11:37:32 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Oh... and no. (0+ / 0-)

              I didn't catch the documentary. We haven't had television in our home since 1976.

              There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. - Will Rogers

              by Joieau on Wed May 14, 2014 at 11:38:38 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  Disturbing (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    J M F, quill

       Isn't the question we are supposed to be asking is why would anyone vote for the folks who approved - after the fact and why would anyone support a politician who continues to say that NSA is there ONLY to keep us Safe.

         I would hope there would be lots of discussion on this topic,  here's hoping that the "it's early" is the reason, rather than folks just ignoring this process or merely shrugging their shoulders.

  •  Good summation (9+ / 0-)

    It sure made for fascinating tv with a great cast of characters. Hayden was the lead villain.

    What kind of Democracy calls in the editors of the NYTimes to get them to "spike" a story? for one year. In the end they defied the administration.

    James Risen is still paying for telling the truth.

    I thought DKos would have several stories on this explosive story. Thank you for posting this.

  •  When Snowden docs specifically mention... (7+ / 0-)

    the counter techniques used against Americans to keep them in line, how can anyone not see that all of our three branches (and the fourth estate) are being manipulated.  They can be squeaky clean but that doesn't matter.  Evidence is created to imply corruption and the dissenters are brought down.  Remember the crap that came out about the WMD inspection teams in Iraq?  They became smeared in so many ways, including accusations of child porn.  Not saying that the President is being manipulated, but it sure fits the bill.

    The most un-convincable man is the one whose paycheck depends on remaining unconvinced. -- H. L. Mencken

    by kharma on Wed May 14, 2014 at 06:12:05 AM PDT

  •  two for you, do them both: (0+ / 0-)

    link to (eventually) PBS vid for Part One.

    precisely what you said, and more.

    brother, i depend on you. sister, you can depend on me.

    TRAILHEAD of accountability for Bush-2 Crimes? -- Addington's Perpwalk.

    by greenbird on Wed May 14, 2014 at 09:38:05 AM PDT

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