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It was time to upgrade my version of Photoshop last week, and as many a visual artist can tell you, Adobe is steering its users into the "Creative Cloud." This is a monthly subscription service, wherein the same programs that cost several hundred dollars in 2006 now cost... well, there's no telling really, since you keep paying into infinity. Apparently paying for software you can install on your computer and use as long as you like is passé. Not long after I purchased an old-fashioned non-cloud program, the Adobe server crashed, preventing people everywhere from signing into the cloud for a day or so. You could almost hear the screams of designers around the world.


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Originally posted to Comics on Tue May 20, 2014 at 06:50 AM PDT.

Also republished by Daily Kos.

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Comment Preferences

  •  The Cloud, it would seem to me (26+ / 0-)

    would also make it very convenient for anyone who wants to, to access your data. And what can you say? It's on their machines.
    The plunderbus part is true too, but secure? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA8181818181818181818181!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

    by CwV on Tue May 20, 2014 at 06:57:49 AM PDT

    •  "Cloud" was invented by IT, not Marketing (5+ / 0-)

      The original "Cloud" was(is?) the Internet.

      Its a generational leap in distributed computing, decoupling the hardware platform from the applications and user interface.

      It is a result of (and theoretically the only way to keep up with) Moore's Law.

      Красота спасет мир --F. Dostoevsky

      by Wisper on Tue May 20, 2014 at 07:35:46 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Platform as a Service, Software as a Service, etc. (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Bob Duck, BRog, Tamar, thanatokephaloides, kurt

        They've been around via other names for awhile, sure.

        Offering a popular software package as only a rentable offering and calling it "Cloud"-based is a Sales strategy on Adobe's part, though.

        "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

        by wader on Tue May 20, 2014 at 08:49:52 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes exactly. The only cloud-based feature most (5+ / 0-)

          Adobe users will need is the one that checks if they've paid their rent before they are allowed to open and work on their files. Sure Adobe offers some web space for sharing, etc. but Creative Cloud was clearly developed only as a way to increase revenue.
          Personally I'll be fine with CS6 for a long time and then will shift to other options. I'm sure CC subscription is a great option for some businesses but the loss of a permanent license option means that I won't be updating my Adobe software. I only hope Autodesk doesn't follow suit anytime soon.

          •  Autodesk just besmirched all of their Softimage (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            thanatokephaloides, kurt

            Customers and initially offered a time-limited capability to continue using their prior Softimage licenses on new installs.  After a big outcry, Autodesk stated that they will honor support for those purchased licenses for an indefinite period of time.

            Lots of "product" companies want to move us users into a system which guarantees steady, predictable payments, I feel.  That's the big part of maintenance contracts for software and/or larger I/T system bundles, of course.

            "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

            by wader on Tue May 20, 2014 at 01:24:09 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Sure about that? (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        thanatokephaloides, kurt

        Like other IT folks, I've drawn the Internet as a cloud on diagrams. But I've never called it "the cloud." Every IT person I know despises the term as vague and meaningless, a marketing term.

        It is in no way a result of Moore's Law, which isn't a "law" so much as a "vague rule of thumb that hasn't actually applied to anything in years." Moore's Law simply states that the number of transistors on a chip will double every 18-24 months.

        We've had multiprocessor computers and chips for decades now. While you can split some types of programs up to run on multiple cores pretty easily, many others can not be split easily at all. And "the cloud" doesn't refer to multiprocessing, quite the opposite. It refers to virtual machines where one powerful computer is virtually chopped up into a bunch of smaller ones.

        I've managed a large virtual system for New Mexico's CYFD Department. It was, in effect, a private cloud, but we techies never, ever used that term except in jest.

        •  You have to say "cloud" (0+ / 0-)

          Because everyone else is saying "cloud" to talk about everyday things that they just started calling "the cloud."

          I've seen some pretty stupid presentations about "the cloud."  Recently I took part in a lunch meeting where we discussed a bunch of security research, and one guy kept sniping everyone else's work.  "Oh, that's been done,"  "Oh, nobody cares about anonymity anymore,"  "oh, that's an easy problem."  Then he got up and gave his presentation about security "in the cloud."  How he's trying to figure out how to guarantee confidentiality and integrity in this new world of cloud computing.

          The whole time I was thinking, didn't they solve that problem in 1976?  Oh, but it wasn't "the cloud" yet.

          Taking jokes seriously is the exact mirror activity of laughing if someone says they have cancer. --jbou

          by Caj on Tue May 20, 2014 at 04:42:26 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I am old enough to remember... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            snwflk

            ...the days before the personal computer revolution, when all software, data, etc., resided on a mainframe, under the tight control of what Ted Nelson called the Computer Priesthood. Even if you were fortunate enough to have a terminal on your desk, that terminal couldn't do anything without the maintframe.

            Then came the PC, which allowed individuals to become self-sufficient, stand-alone manipulators of information. A huge variety of programs appeared as if from nowhere. People started using computers in ways the Priesthood had never imagined.

            Much of what's happened since then has been the Priesthood trying to stuff the genie back in the bottle. The internet (which started out as such a good thing) quickly became the means for removing stand-alone functionality from the hands of the user and transferring it to the "server" or "network computer" or most recently the "cloud." Different names, but the end result is the same: your device becomes less and less a stand-alone, independent information processing machine and more and more just a terminal, utterly dependent upon the "cloud." And guess who's still in charge of the cloud... yep, the same old Priesthood. And they are pretty much back in control, just as they were in the Bad Old Days.

  •  Free software (26+ / 0-)

    Free software is free in terms of being open, not necessarily in terms of being without cost.

    I highly suggest people consider using alternatives like the Gimp or Inkspace or others instead of Photoshop. Send those projects your money and help them get better in case there are things that don't work as you want.

    Then you won't have this issue of companies forcing you in directions you don't want to go.

  •  10 YEARS? (11+ / 0-)

    I mean Adobe CS for $600?  Yeah.. I liked the 1990's too, but still.....

    CS6 Master Collection retails at $2,600.  The bare bones "Design Standard" is still $1300.

    So $50/month is the same as using the software 26 months for the minimal package or 52 months for the full suite with all built in upgrades and maintenance.  

    And you don't think you'd have to buy a new version in 2+/4+ years?  For professional grade software?  

    I don't get this....

    Its called "leasing" and has been done in most industries for decades.  Why is it when it comes to Software that somehow this is now an Orwellian plot to dupe the dimwitted populace out of their money and security?

    Красота спасет мир --F. Dostoevsky

    by Wisper on Tue May 20, 2014 at 07:10:24 AM PDT

    •  Because of the lying, perhaps? (17+ / 0-)

      Perhaps it's because,
      1. We are accustomed to purchasing, and we can still purchase (e.g. Quark, if that's your thing),
      2. It isn't presented as leasing. It's presented as "the cloud, a new experience!"
      3. It is presented as a sale that isn't a sale.

      Viz. "crippleware."

      People do not like being deceived, and they do not like being deceived and having options removed so that corporate can make more money. If nothing else, a single sale point allows consumers to move on to a competitor.

      "man, proud man,/ Drest in a little brief authority,. . . Plays such fantastic tricks before high heaven/ As make the angels weep; who, with our spleens,/ Would all themselves laugh mortal." -- Shakespeare, Measure for Measure II ii, 117-23

      by The Geogre on Tue May 20, 2014 at 07:22:46 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Lying? LOL... really? (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        PSzymeczek, Zorge, hikergrrl

        Um.. did they tell you that you got to own it only to later snatch it back out from under you?  WTF?

        SaaS is an upfront business model.  Always has been.

        If you want to purchase and sink a fixed cost into a software that ages by the second, sure... go out and find one.  And see how much support it gets from its developer and for how long they will support it.  Or go OpenSource and navigate those to find your own options.  There are alternative routes for people that refuse to submit to the Oppressive Tyranny of the Cloud (OToC).

        You can move on to a competitor WHENEVER YOU WANT.  The Cloud costs are month to month, or you can lock in on a 1-year term at a discounted rate.  Feel free to drop it and move on to anything whenever it makes sense to do so.  Even when you are purchasing you have to factor in ROI points.  So if you buy new software you are pretty much committed to 12-18 months of use to justify the expense.

        "The Cloud" is not a "new experience" nor is it simply a new pricing model.  It a generational shift to expand the technology on which the Internet was built.  It allows the end user to eliminate the need to manage hardware requirements.  It allows mobility since the cloud has infinite entry points (like the Internet) and has self-contained compatibility requirements (leaving you to only manage a browser or thin-client).  It allows a longer life for end-point hardware by keeping the heavy computing on the server-side across a distributed platform and not relying on a single processor of questionable age and functionality on the user's side.

        If you want to "own your own because its YOURS", go ahead.  There are other models.  But as an IT Executive I can tell you that those of us in this industry have been pushing every major software maker for SaaS solutions for YEARS and YEARS.  This wasn't "forced on us" so they could make more money.  It was "demanded by us" so we could save more money.

        SaaS has long since been the norm.  HaaS (Hardware as a Service) is now entering its mature stage and being embraced even faster.  Now I am waiting to see some big leaps and bounds in the IaaS (Infrastructure as a Service) marketplace.

        Красота спасет мир --F. Dostoevsky

        by Wisper on Tue May 20, 2014 at 07:49:09 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Thank you. (16+ / 0-)

          I do, in fact, use Libre Office. I use GIMP. In fact, other than Windows XP, which was OEM, I go open source and, far from being a sad, pouty little Luddite, I appear to have all the functionality of the cloud dwellers of Elysium.

          Furthermore, while I'm out of the IT business, thank goodness (for me), whenever I do still have to make a decision on modular IT, I make the same recommendations as I do personally: get away from any product that will put a debit on the balance sheet that you cannot budget for and that will hold your office hostage to its own revenue statements.

          Long before Enterprise, educational software did the "pay for updates" model. Some of these were nothing more than DOS batch files that they would charge $5,000 for. Others were only dBase apps that were designed to stand alone but mysteriously cost $15,000 a year -- for "the latest version."

          I am glad that I have your permission to be a basement dwelling open source hippie. I'm gladder, though, if IT consultants continue to ignore my segment of the "market." Please don't take this personally, but I feel safer that way.

          "man, proud man,/ Drest in a little brief authority,. . . Plays such fantastic tricks before high heaven/ As make the angels weep; who, with our spleens,/ Would all themselves laugh mortal." -- Shakespeare, Measure for Measure II ii, 117-23

          by The Geogre on Tue May 20, 2014 at 08:29:45 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  our segment of the "market" (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            The Geogre
            I am glad that I have your permission to be a basement dwelling open source hippie. I'm gladder, though, if IT consultants continue to ignore my segment of the "market." Please don't take this personally, but I feel safer that way.
            I also use free and open-source software (FOSS) virtually exclusively. However, I would rather that FOSS be the ONLY "market".

            I don't trust either hardware or software as "a service", and, at least IMHO, no one else should either.

            I am reminded of my first Daily Kos tagline:

            Keep your powder dry and your data local!

            And I mean that. You need control over your data -- no matter who you are. And the first and most important ingredient in that control is to know where it is physically being stored.

            "It's high time (and then some) that we put an end to the exceptionalistic nonsense floating around in our culture and face the fact that either the economy works for all, or it doesn't work AT all." -- Sean McCullough (DailyKos user thanatokephaloides)

            by thanatokephaloides on Tue May 20, 2014 at 04:23:12 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  "Black Board" at schools (0+ / 0-)

              There is a bit of software called Black Board. In 1999, it would have cost a school I was buying for $10k, and it offered, at that point, essentially nothing but an intranet. The problem is that it had to be accessed by the Internet, and all the data -- class design, tests, grades, back office scheduling, etc. -- served on a dedicated local platter and then stayed with the Black Board servers.

              The school would by $10k and not really have its own data. Exporting data out of it was kludged when it was even possible.

              By 2008, Black Board was more sophisticated, but it still cost an enormous amount. Now, it stored on local servers entirely, but it kept its proprietary format. Exports were much better, but imports were kludged or impossible. It was still, though, what any one could have created as an intranet with Windows NT (OS/2 Warp would be even better, OS X better still) and XML.

              What always, always bothered me was, "Where is our data? Can we back it up? Can we export it? Can we migrate it?"

              Where I work now had had Black Board until it declared exigency ("bankruptcy" for colleges). It then tried to get faculty to use Google Drive. Guess how that has worked out? (Hint: I put stuff into HTML and carry it around.)

              "man, proud man,/ Drest in a little brief authority,. . . Plays such fantastic tricks before high heaven/ As make the angels weep; who, with our spleens,/ Would all themselves laugh mortal." -- Shakespeare, Measure for Measure II ii, 117-23

              by The Geogre on Tue May 20, 2014 at 06:01:52 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  Sure you can move on to a competitor assuming (8+ / 0-)

          you can get access to your data (at least in a format that anyone else can handle).  In fact, that is one of the "benefits" of cloud services, try to switch and you lose your data.

          You have watched Faux News, now lose 2d10 SAN.

          by Throw The Bums Out on Tue May 20, 2014 at 08:38:32 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Oh, and the cloud pretty much sucks for (3+ / 0-)

          many applications.  If you don't believe me, just try playing a game using OnLive or even Splashtop at high resolution on a standard cable/DSL internet connection.  Or even try using Photoshop over Rdesktop/TeamViewer/Splashtop.  Go ahead, I guarantee that you will get frustrated pretty quickly.

          You have watched Faux News, now lose 2d10 SAN.

          by Throw The Bums Out on Tue May 20, 2014 at 08:48:40 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  This is my #2 issue with "the Cloud" (7+ / 0-)

            The US has a 1970's internet infrastructure, designed to allow cable monopolies to gouge taxpayers after having their business basically given to them by those same taxpayers.

            Of course big business has its own T1+++ playground that is priced out of "consumer" markets.

            Until the US gets a genuinely 21st century internet, and an actual CAPITALIST internet rather than the monopoly corporate socialist dystopia we now have, the "Cloud" is a pipe dream. As long as we are at the mercy of the monopolists and cartels, the Cloud is nothing more than a way to become even MORE of a victim.

            And until corporations begin to take responsibility for internet security hosted on their servers, passing through their nets, run by their software, instead of telling the consumer that every data breach is their fault not ours, the Cloud is a suckers' game.

            Tell us your every little secret, GIVE us all your ideas and innovations, we promise not to look, steal it, or use it against you. TRUST us. Haven't we EARNED your trust, yet?

            And don't expect US to protect your data. It's YOUR data, YOU protect it (on OUR "Cloud" servers).

            •  Well it can be done though you have to be (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              thanatokephaloides

              on Linux (or possibly *BSD) as there are FUSE drivers that allow you to treat a cloud storage provider as if it were a local/network drive and some do include encryption (and those that don't can be combined with cryptoloop or similar).  So Samba+dropboxfs+encfs=encrypted cloud storage that even the NSA would have a hard time with.  Sadly that still doesn't solve being able to fall back to local storage on the server but that could be fixed with some scripting and a few crontab entries.

              You have watched Faux News, now lose 2d10 SAN.

              by Throw The Bums Out on Tue May 20, 2014 at 09:21:52 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  cheaper and easier (0+ / 0-)
                So Samba+dropboxfs+encfs=encrypted cloud storage that even the NSA would have a hard time with.  Sadly that still doesn't solve being able to fall back to local storage on the server but that could be fixed with some scripting and a few crontab entries.
                Keeping your data local is still cheaper and easier, especially for most consumers who need their computers to "just work".

                And it's still safer, even for those of us who are in the "tinkering class". Encryption may keep everybody else from getting at your data, but any one of several easily imaginable fails on either the server or client ends will lock you out of it as well, forever. (Been there, done that, DO. NOT. recommend it)

                "It's high time (and then some) that we put an end to the exceptionalistic nonsense floating around in our culture and face the fact that either the economy works for all, or it doesn't work AT all." -- Sean McCullough (DailyKos user thanatokephaloides)

                by thanatokephaloides on Tue May 20, 2014 at 04:34:11 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  Note to self: Download "Red Hat User's Guide" n/t (0+ / 0-)

                "man, proud man,/ Drest in a little brief authority,. . . Plays such fantastic tricks before high heaven/ As make the angels weep; who, with our spleens,/ Would all themselves laugh mortal." -- Shakespeare, Measure for Measure II ii, 117-23

                by The Geogre on Tue May 20, 2014 at 06:04:01 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  What YOU said..... (0+ / 0-)
              And until corporations begin to take responsibility for internet security hosted on their servers, passing through their nets, run by their software, instead of telling the consumer that every data breach is their fault not ours, the Cloud is a suckers' game.
              And it will ever so remain, even in nations whose consumers do have fiber-to-the-home and uninterrupted 4G nationwide wireless available at reasonable prices to consumers.

              The "Cloud" is a suckers' game. Everywhere. And it will always remain such.

              My first Daily Kos tagline remains in force (and, I suspect, always will):

              Keep your powder dry and your data local!

              "It's high time (and then some) that we put an end to the exceptionalistic nonsense floating around in our culture and face the fact that either the economy works for all, or it doesn't work AT all." -- Sean McCullough (DailyKos user thanatokephaloides)

              by thanatokephaloides on Tue May 20, 2014 at 04:28:14 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  Agreed. Not to mention the fact that for (0+ / 0-)

          those working in teams scattered across the globe, it's a god send. In the video/film production world this is a great thing. We can use the screenwriting software, integrate it with short list development, editing, animation, after effects, photoshop, music plugins etc etc and everyone can work as a team in real time no matter where there are on the planet.

          Plus as you say, no need to worry about upgrades and compatibility and local system capabilities...

          IDK. I guess its value depends on how many programs you need and what they're doing.

      •  and my understanding is that if you stop paying, (4+ / 0-)

        you can't access your own work. That's a major problem.
        I was looking into this for my daughter who's very interested in photography and uses a very old version of photoshop. Thought it might be worth seeing about upgrading. But the current upgrade is that monthly deal/
        The virtue of programs you own is that you can continue to use them to get access to the things you've created and saved. With the monthly program, you're SOL if you run into money problems and still want to get hold of your own creative work.

        While Democrats work to get more people to vote, Republicans work to ensure those votes won't count.

        by Tamar on Tue May 20, 2014 at 01:48:56 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I still have my Microsoft Word 6.0 (12+ / 0-)

      Bought it in 1994. The dictionary is a bit out of date, but English is still English, and paragraphs are still paragraphs.

      Of course, you need a computer that will allow you to install from floppy disks . . .

      And God said, "Let there be light"; and with a Big Bang, there was light. And God said "Ow! Ow My eyes!" and in a flash God separated light from darkness. "Whew! Now that's better. Now where was I. Oh yea . . ."

      by Pale Jenova on Tue May 20, 2014 at 07:25:19 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  And remember (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sweatyb, Zorge, ksheahan, hikergrrl

      you get EVERYTHING. Every piece of software Adobe makes. Whether you use it or not, you have access to it, can download it any time you want.

      You get some fonts as well.

      This is what I tell my students (there's educational pricing, which is a lot cheaper) - you used to spend $900 for the educational version of the full master suite, $500 for the design premium (no A/V tools). Now you spend $xx ($30/mo as of 6/1), and you get EVERYTHING.

      The software upgrades every 18-24 mos. Sometimes more than that. So over that same 24 mos you spend $720, in smaller chunks (coming up with that $500-900 can be a bear), and get MORE software than you would have before.

      If you're doing a design course, you'll probably want the software for at least a year, or while you're in school. And you'll need to keep it updated. $30/mo is MUCH easier to manage than $500 or $900. If you don't want to keep it when you're done, DON'T. Nobody forces you.  

      If you don't want to keep your software updated, you really should go to the open source versions. They'll do what you need, and you don't have to keep them updated if you don't want to.

      But if you're doing design work for a living, and especially if you're just starting out, I suspect CC is a godsend.

      •  No. (23+ / 0-)

        I do design work for a living... and only update every few versions. Many print houses only work with earlier versions and not the very latest. Like many designers (on the design forums and blogs) I hate the whole idea of the cloud... and will be weaning myself off of Adobe over the next couple of years if they do not go back to the old model, at least offering it as an option.

        Having the software constantly change is NOT helpful to long-term ongoing projects. Maybe for some folks it is, but for most of us it isn't. Needing to rent the software to open old projects is not helpful either.

        curious portal - to a world of paintings, lyric-poems, art writing, and graphic and web design • Drawing Out the Muses now available in e-book

        by asterkitty on Tue May 20, 2014 at 07:31:47 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Yup. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mmacdDE, mdmslle

        Got Creative Cloud, thought I'd hate it, found out I love it instead.

        I'm a photographer, and have a small (tiny, really) publishing business with my partner.  So, I use Lightroom, Photoshop, Acrobat Pro, and am learning how to use InDesign and Dreamweaver.  I recently downloaded Audition just so I can make ringtones.

        And there are about 20 OTHER applications I have full access to as well.

        For $50/month, plus tax.

        The subscription format made it possible for me to have it at all--there is NO WAY IN HELL I could have afforded CS6 as a bundle; I'm not eligible for educational pricing so I would have had to pay the full price.

        And hey, that $50/month?  Is tax deductible.

        Magic is the fine art of getting off your ass and doing something.

        by Damiana on Tue May 20, 2014 at 01:18:09 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Dependencies SUCK (20+ / 0-)

      The primary difference between leasing hardware (a car, a home, etc.) and software is that my Toyota Corolla doesn't have an operating dependency upon Toyota Motor Corporation for its every use. There could be a mishap at Toyota's Japan headquarters, their Kentucky factory, my local dealership, or the bank that holds the lease, and none of those events could affect my ability to start the car, to drive to the store, or to fill the gas tank. The car doesn't need to "phone home" to anyone despite the fact that I'm but a temporary user instead of an "owner."

      Every time I fire up Photoshop, though, I have to cross my fingers that Adobe's got their act together so I can get my work promptly done.

      I've got nothing against leasing as a concept; my Creative Cloud membership has still saved me money over the old, overpriced boxed copies. "Leasing" productized software tends to come with a dependency upon the publisher's ability to execute on services that can prove disastrous.

      •  Yep. Quickbooks online depends on (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        thanatokephaloides

        access.  During the first week of every quarter, when small businesses are doing their quarter-end financials, Quickbooks Online is veeeerrrrryyyyy slllloooowww because everyone is working on it at the same time.  It was worse in January when EVERYONE was doing their yearly close.  I had to work in the middle of the night to get anything done.

        Quickbooks desktop, no problem ever.  Except now they are trying to force you to buy a new version every 3 years.  And the newer versions pretty much suck.

        "The next time I tell you someone from Texas should not be president of the United States, please, pay attention." Molly Ivins

        by janmtairy on Tue May 20, 2014 at 09:31:28 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Truth be told... (0+ / 0-)

        I'd have more faith in Toyota Motor Corporation to execute on services than I do for nearly every software corporation.

        Thanks for joining the dk conversation

        Welcome to Daily Kos. If you have any questions about how to participate here, you can learn more at the Community Guidelines, the Knowledge Base, and the Site Resource Diaries. Diaries labeled "Open Thread" are also great places to ask. We look forward to your contributions.
        ~~ from the DK Partners & Mentors Team.

        Words can sometimes, in moments of grace, attain the quality of deeds. --Elie Wiesel

        by a gilas girl on Wed May 21, 2014 at 06:37:45 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I'm with Wisper..... (0+ / 0-)

      Your key phrase was:

      It was time to upgrade my version of Photoshop last week
      I don't know where you are getting upgrades for "hundreds."   Adobe Creative Suite, pro level, is HIGH.

      This model enables you to

      1. make a la carte selections of the parts of the package that you use;

      2. always have the most up to date version;

      3. pick it up and drop it on a monthly basis depending on your needs;

      4. at roughly the accumulated cost of several-year, $thousand-plus upgrades.

      Baz

      We are the principled ones, remember? We don't get to use the black hats' tricks even when it would benefit us. Political Compass: -6.88, -6.41

      by bmcphail on Tue May 20, 2014 at 07:28:15 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Business's are better off buying and then (5+ / 0-)

      depreciate it on your taxes. You end up with a better deal than leasing and expensing the fee.

      •  Im glad you are not my CFO (0+ / 0-)

        Or perhaps you work for a mom-and-pop shop that might only need a single copy of this.

        I've never been in a business where the TCO calculations ever came close to showing buying enterprise-wide commodity-level IT assets as the better cost.

        Красота спасет мир --F. Dostoevsky

        by Wisper on Tue May 20, 2014 at 08:16:39 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Mixed feelings on this... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      hikergrrl, thanatokephaloides

      The pros of being a designer and using Adobe's cloud is that I can budget a fairly reasonable fee each month and have the very latest updates seems easier than putting that same amount aside to purchase a big update every two years (and really, I wouldn't want to go longer than that anyway).

      The cons are that I don't really feel I own the software and am held hostage to rate increases. If I let my cloud membership expire.... then what??? Also of course there is the whole privacy issue.

      It does seem a bit of a racket, but then again, it is nice to always be up-to-date if you earn your living as a designer.

    •  I'm (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cybersaur, Tamar, thanatokephaloides, kurt

      currently using Adobe CS 4.  It is very common for people to skip one or two versions, sometimes more if the new features are not sexy enough.

      I will NOT by into that cloud crap.  I don't want a monthly bill for software.

      I am buying the installable version of CS 6 soon only because it is said to be the last of it's kind because Adobe will insist everyone use their cloud.  Otherwise, I would still use CS 4.

      •  It's up to you (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ksheahan

        Obviously, you get to make your own decision about this.

        However, there are some pretty nifty features they keep adding, which you just don't get if you keep using an older version.  If you want to upgrade to the newest version, you just do it, without having to cough up the price of an upgrade.

        Plus, if you're using it professionally, that $50/month (or $20/month if you're just getting Lightroom and Photoshop) is a nice consistent tax deduction.

        Magic is the fine art of getting off your ass and doing something.

        by Damiana on Tue May 20, 2014 at 01:30:46 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  "permanent rental" has of course long been a (19+ / 0-)

    standard method through which unscrupulous businesses have ripped off poor people for many many years.

    Rent-a Center built an entire chain empire on the practice, by renting out everything from computers to couches, to people who end up paying way more in rent than the actual purchase price.

    In the end, reality always wins.

    by Lenny Flank on Tue May 20, 2014 at 07:12:11 AM PDT

    •  Those same people (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Champurrado

      likely either only need it for a few months, and don't want to have to deal with getting rid of or moving it after that, or don't have the money or credit worthiness to buy something new.

      Do you pay more if you're actually buying it from them? Of course. Why? Because you're paying WEEKLY, they don't check credit, and if you don't have good credit or cash upfront, how the hell else are you supposed to get these things?

      They fill a need. They make a profit doing it, and you can argue (rightfully) that they charge too much, but they DO fill a need for those who have no other options.

      •  well, loan sharks fill a need too (9+ / 0-)

        for those who have no other options.

        ;)

        In the end, reality always wins.

        by Lenny Flank on Tue May 20, 2014 at 07:42:03 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I have lots of options (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mmacdDE, hikergrrl

          and I lease both my cars.  I'm going back down to one car at the end of this year.  I will be turning mine back in and walking away and then next year we will return my wife's car and lease another one for her.

          What is the "Mine!Mine!Mine!" obsession with owning?  Im not interested in being some automobile aficionado curating over a priceless addition to my collection.  I need transportation.  I expect that to cost me a certain amount of money per month.  I don't want to get into owning, maintenance, rehabbing, selling, upgrading, or whatever with a big piece of metal that is worth less every day.

          I pay.  I drive.  I pay.  I drive.  Simple.

          Its a long way off from loan-sharking.

          Why is software any different?  WTF would I do today with a copy of Office2000?  I dont want this crap.  I just want to be able to use software to do what i need done today.

          Красота спасет мир --F. Dostoevsky

          by Wisper on Tue May 20, 2014 at 07:58:47 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I think you miss the point . . . (8+ / 0-)

            It's not the "owning" that is the problem. It's the "paying forever for it until you've paid several times what the actual purchase price is and are now just handing free money to the rental company" part--especially from poverty-level people who CANNOT own.

            Ya know, the way loan sharks get $2,000 in interest for a $100 loan.

            In the end, reality always wins.

            by Lenny Flank on Tue May 20, 2014 at 08:03:57 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  That is interest because the borrower (0+ / 0-)

              never benefited from more then the original $100.

              This is indefinite, infinite, use of a product that you will need perpetually without having to pay for infrastructure to maintain it or time/money to upgrade it.

              It just converts the spikes and lags of purchasing, using, lagging, re-purchasing, re-installing, using, lagging, re-purchasing, etc.  cycle into a flat TCO spread out over only the time you need to use the software.

              Stop needing it and you stop paying for it.  No sunk costs.  No capital expenditure.  No need to upgrade your own hardware to keep pace.  No need to re-purchase or plan a large re-purchase expense into a budget cycle.

              Adobe CS costs thousands with regular significant (and expensive) upgrades.  And you'd have to plan ahead to anticipate which modules and features you might need.  With SaaS, you can just pay for what you need, adding or removing pieces month to month.

              The ROI calculations tilt SO HEAVILY toward cloud-computing particularly if you are looking at a user-base of any size.  Imagine running a company where you had to buy (and keep buying) 12 or 20 or 100 copies of this thing plus all the computing power to run them locally.  

              Just for a fundamental tool your employees would need to even attempt their job.  

              Красота спасет мир --F. Dostoevsky

              by Wisper on Tue May 20, 2014 at 08:14:07 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Except in the case of software. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              mmacdDE, hikergrrl

              Unlike physical goods, after you finish "paying for the actual purchase price", you'll have access to their newest software.

              Basically, you're essentially the price to "upgrade" your software from one version to the next in monthly (or yearly) installments.

              Of course, Adobe should keep an option for people who don't need the latest versions to just purchase a copy of the software at a specific version.

              •  I think they do (0+ / 0-)

                They don't promote it much though.

                And to be realistic, you DO need to upgrade your software on a regular basis.

                Want me to send you a copy of a WordPerfect 6.0 document just to demonstrate? Or a Lotus 1-2-3 file?

            •  except (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              mmacdDE

              you don't actually wind up "paying forever for it" because you can end the agreement whenever you like.  this is not the time-share condo version of software ownership.  you are not obligated to stay on the train just because you got on it.

            •  But in the case of Rent-a-Center (0+ / 0-)

              you won't be paying forever. Either you're renting the stuff short term because you don't want to or can't buy it outright with cash or credit, or you're on a lease to own deal where you WILL own it, it's just going to cost more.

              And again, for some people this is a valid option. It's quite possibly the only one they have.

              That is worth something. Whether you think it's worth it isn't the point. Whether you think they charge too much is a valid discussion.

              When we lived in England we rented our TV. We could have bought one - but then we'd have to deal with selling it when we got sent somewhere else. It wasn't going to do us any good in the states, or ANYWHERE else we might go. It was an expensive purchase, and we didn't have the upfront money.

              So we rented it. It was the best option at the time. We didn't have to worry about trying to sell it when we left, we didn't have to come up with a big chunk of change to buy one, and we had a tv.

              If we were going to be somewhere for a few months, you better believe I'd hit Rent-a-Center for furniture. And maybe a TV. The convenience of not having to sell it, not having to move it, and not having to worry about whether some used furniture was harboring bugs or disease would be worth it.

          •  Well you are fortunate that pretty much (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            thanatokephaloides

            everything is close by as leasing is often quite a bit more expensive than buying and trading in if you take mileage into account as the penalties for going over are VERY expensive.

            You have watched Faux News, now lose 2d10 SAN.

            by Throw The Bums Out on Tue May 20, 2014 at 08:41:20 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  On the other hand, I generally keep my cars (3+ / 0-)

            (and trucks) until they are thoroughly dead. I buy them cheap, fix them, and drive them without paying every month (except for gas and maintenance) for years and years.

            If I get tired of one, I sell it - usually for close to whatever I paid for it in the first place, or sometimes more.

            As an extra bonus, there is less waste in manufacturing.

            You obviously have other priorities. More power to you. But you are spending a hell of a lot more than I am, for the same essential functions.

            •  Maybe (0+ / 0-)

              but you gain something when you lease a car - security.

              You know how much you're going to spend every month for the car payment. You know you WILL NEVER have any major maintenance. You'll probably never need tires, or brakes, or a major tune up - and if you do, it will likely be covered under some or another warranty.

              There's a benefit in that.

              YOU can fix cars. I can't. Buying an older car that I can't truly depend on is a NIGHTMARE for me.

              I do buy used cars. I'm religious about maintenance. And when the car breaks down, or when I'm going to have major maintenance (other than routine replacement items), I SELL IT.

              If I didn't put the mileage I do on a car, I'd lease it too.

          •  I like not having car payments (4+ / 0-)

            I buy new cars and keep them for 15 years or so. Pay them off after 3 or 4 years, then drive them until they start falling apart, then get a new one. Do maintenance once or twice a year, and I have saved a bundle.
            If i "had" to have a new car all the time, leasing would be the way to go.  But I haven't made a car payment since 2010, which saves me a bundle.

            Be bold. Be courageous. Americans are counting on you. Gabby Giffords.

            by Leftleaner on Tue May 20, 2014 at 11:25:09 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  If YOU aren't paying for it... (5+ / 0-)

    then YOU are the product.

    "For him who has conquered the mind, the mind is the best of friends; but for one who has failed to do so, his mind will remain the greatest enemy." -Bhagavad Gita

    by joegoldstein on Tue May 20, 2014 at 07:15:02 AM PDT

    •  You pay for Cloud-based Apps (SaaS) (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jessical, joegoldstein

      They are the product.  

      You are thinking more of Google Apps and other consumer grade "Free Apps".

      You'd get fresh AB Negative blood from a fossil before you ever got anything free from Adobe.  ...except of course the utterly featureless "reader" that merely gives you permission to use their product.  ...and hell, it took them until 2008 to even allow anyone to use the PDF format without paying them.

      Красота спасет мир --F. Dostoevsky

      by Wisper on Tue May 20, 2014 at 07:32:26 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  No, I'm quite aware of what I'm saying, thanks. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        thanatokephaloides

        Some cloud services you pay for, and some you don't.

        It's not just Google, BTW.

        Most of ALL business models are going to extract monthly payments from people, cyber-based or not. Or they are selling and reselling our information and demographics to other businesses as a service.

        The "money boys" don't like the idea of just getting one lump payment from you. They want you to pay through the nose...in perpetuity.

        But I appreciate your thoughts, thank you.

        "For him who has conquered the mind, the mind is the best of friends; but for one who has failed to do so, his mind will remain the greatest enemy." -Bhagavad Gita

        by joegoldstein on Tue May 20, 2014 at 11:39:04 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  You can decide how much (0+ / 0-)

      of a product you're willing to be.

      I keep all my work on an external hard drive, with a backup.  I don't put anything on the cloud (well, except posts like this, and things like my photo portfolio) because I don't trust Cloud security.

      And honestly, unless your real name is not Joe Goldstein, there's already more information about you out on the Cloud than Adobe will want.

      Magic is the fine art of getting off your ass and doing something.

      by Damiana on Tue May 20, 2014 at 01:34:39 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It really doesn't matter if my real name... (0+ / 0-)

        is Joe Goldstein or "Turnera diffusa". They don't use your real name as a key. You should know that ;)

        "For him who has conquered the mind, the mind is the best of friends; but for one who has failed to do so, his mind will remain the greatest enemy." -Bhagavad Gita

        by joegoldstein on Wed May 21, 2014 at 05:18:30 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Thank you! Yes! (6+ / 0-)

    Microsoft tried "Enterprise" software, and no one wanted to rent Office. Games are now all server-side, so no one "owns" a game anymore -- they rent it forever (I mean "join" it). The "cloud computing" was simply another way of saying, "Server-side."

    Where the Next Cube was supposed to be server side and RISC and free (I think), everyone else saw "rent for life = reliable revenue stream = profit statements every quarter = $$."

    Vampirism as a business model.

    "man, proud man,/ Drest in a little brief authority,. . . Plays such fantastic tricks before high heaven/ As make the angels weep; who, with our spleens,/ Would all themselves laugh mortal." -- Shakespeare, Measure for Measure II ii, 117-23

    by The Geogre on Tue May 20, 2014 at 07:17:49 AM PDT

    •  No one wanted to rent Office? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      xanjabu

      What country or planet are we talking about here?

      Every business I've worked for or consulted with pushed for YEARS and YEARS to be able to rent Office and Windows.

      I've negotiated Enterprise Agreements going back to 2001.  It is BY FAR the best way to manage software costs for any sizable business.

      And now Office365 makes it entirely cloud-based alleviating the sunk-costs of putting over-built PC's on every desk for very task-specific functions.  

      Why would you ever want to buy hundreds of copies of an expensive product that will be obsolete in a few years?  Just lease the usage rights, transfer the costs from CapEx to OpEx and never have to worry about disruptive keep-current enterprise-wise upgrades involving a trmendous amount of labor on top of a fresh lump-sum cost of new software?

      Odd that the people pushing for cloud-based SaaS solutions are not the evil vampiric software companies; it is the IT Execs that are sick of flushing our money down the drain of buying rapidly depreciating, yet business critical, software over and over and over again.

      Красота спасет мир --F. Dostoevsky

      by Wisper on Tue May 20, 2014 at 07:28:33 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Perhaps people like having access to their (7+ / 0-)

        software and data even if there isn't a wifi hotspot with decent speed nearby.  Not to mention that NOBODY could use Photoshop or any other such Adobe product or access their data for a couple of days due to some misconfiguration on Adobe's part that took down their cloud server.

        You have watched Faux News, now lose 2d10 SAN.

        by Throw The Bums Out on Tue May 20, 2014 at 07:51:35 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Office 365 is that (0+ / 0-)

          Data and programs available offline at any time and will sync once it finds a network connection.

          For those who seek perfection there can be no rest on this side of the grave.

          by Zero Serenity on Tue May 20, 2014 at 08:05:39 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Not on Windows 8. By default everything will (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            shaharazade, thanatokephaloides

            save to your cloud drive (SkyDrive) and only to the cloud.  Yes, you can turn that off but then it is local storage only.  There is no sync.

            You have watched Faux News, now lose 2d10 SAN.

            by Throw The Bums Out on Tue May 20, 2014 at 08:06:29 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I'm running Windows 8 (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              thanatokephaloides

              And have no idea what you're talking about. All my files say "available offline" and sync perfectly with my phone.

              For those who seek perfection there can be no rest on this side of the grave.

              by Zero Serenity on Tue May 20, 2014 at 08:09:01 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Well that is what it said during setup. In fact, (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                shaharazade, thanatokephaloides

                here is a screenshot for you.  Notice where it says that "and new documents you create will be saved to OneDrive by default"?  That means they will not be stored locally unless you manually save a copy outside of your my documents folder and good luck doing that if you are not an administrator.

                You have watched Faux News, now lose 2d10 SAN.

                by Throw The Bums Out on Tue May 20, 2014 at 08:21:04 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  It's right... (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  thanatokephaloides

                  but they're saved on your computer as well. When you're done look for users/Username/OneDrive.

                  For those who seek perfection there can be no rest on this side of the grave.

                  by Zero Serenity on Tue May 20, 2014 at 08:28:48 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  That's assuming that Windows 8 apps* like (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    thanatokephaloides

                    Office will let you access that folder rather than locking you to My Documents and any external drives you have attached.  Though I guess you could just use a junction in that case.

                    *I mean apps actually written for Windows 8 rather than those running in the legacy likely "desktop" mode (which most likely won't exist in Windows 9, instead backwards compatibility with win32 apps will most likely be provided either by either a Virtual Windows 7 mode or possibly API translation).

                    You have watched Faux News, now lose 2d10 SAN.

                    by Throw The Bums Out on Tue May 20, 2014 at 08:33:56 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

            •  Thats because Windows8 was designed (0+ / 0-)

              primarily as a Tablet OS and the whole idea of Tablets, according to the founding gospel of Steven P. Jobs, is NO LOCAL STORAGE. (See: Pad, i.)

              But as a Desktop OS, Windows8 absolutely can store everything locally and automate whatever type of synchronization you would like.

              (its one of their main selling/marketing points of OneDrive (which is MS's new name for SkyDrive)).

              Красота спасет мир --F. Dostoevsky

              by Wisper on Tue May 20, 2014 at 08:21:01 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  You're right (0+ / 0-)

          And with Adobe installed locally on a single consumer-grade computer that is an absolute guarantee of 99.9999999999% up-time.  And even if your home PC crashes (which we both know never happens, ever, but for the sake of argument...)  you can always just reinstall your trusty wholly-owned copy on your spare computer with equal computing power.  I mean, its not like its some complex piece of software with dozens, if not hundreds, of customizable settings that each user sets up over time to adapt to how they uniquely use the product or anytyhing, amirite?

          And your data is stored on a separate drive (with a separate spare) so there is no single point of local failure, naturally.

          ((And, btw, you can work off-line with SaaS.  It resync's when you are back in civilization (or off the plane).))

          Красота спасет мир --F. Dostoevsky

          by Wisper on Tue May 20, 2014 at 08:05:56 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  That's.... (0+ / 0-)

          not how it works.

          With both Adobe and Microsoft (and most game engines, from what I understand) it doesn't matter if you go offline, unless it's for more than a month at a time.

          You have to be online once per month.  That's it.  And since you're paying for one month at a time, really, that's fair.

          My partner works on an offline computer, which goes online only as needed.  Seriously, it's not an issue.

          Magic is the fine art of getting off your ass and doing something.

          by Damiana on Tue May 20, 2014 at 01:38:37 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Right: obsolete (3+ / 0-)

        I forgot. It's all obsolete.

        You do sound like an IT consultant.

        My experiences have all been the guy being told to manage without a budget. Being encumbered forever makes no sense. Saying, "Our budget will always be negative whatever rent our vendors wish to charge on the software that we must use to get our work done" is about as suicidal for an operating entity as anything I can imagine.

        Now, if you're an IT consultant, of course, it's all a matter of installing the new OS and the new patches and the new thing that will give new functionality to the new opportunities for extensibility, etc. Meanwhile, encumbering the budget for eternity is Not Your Problem. It makes sense as a way of solving the problem of obsolescence.

        For a lot of us, "obsolescence" only occurs when actual productivity is harmed to the point where the losses incurred by an added expenditure are less than those of continuing with the "outdated" product. Those dates are far, far, far later than the release dates set by corporate.

        "man, proud man,/ Drest in a little brief authority,. . . Plays such fantastic tricks before high heaven/ As make the angels weep; who, with our spleens,/ Would all themselves laugh mortal." -- Shakespeare, Measure for Measure II ii, 117-23

        by The Geogre on Tue May 20, 2014 at 08:21:18 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I was a Management Consultant (0+ / 0-)

          I didn't make money off upgrades or slinging software licenses on a commission.

          And if you think your business is better positioned by keeping your employees on obsolete software because its "good enough" then, to be more specific, I was probably a Management Consultant for your competitor.

          Красота спасет мир --F. Dostoevsky

          by Wisper on Tue May 20, 2014 at 08:24:05 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Consider cases (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Jen Sorensen, thanatokephaloides

            Does Jen Sorensen need to migrate to a cloud?

            Does a very small business, with no more than PoS software?

            Does a back office in a small school need to?

            Indeed, in these cases, their work is being done, and they are not losing time or revenue on inefficiency. Technology has reached its vanishing point (the point where the tool is minimally present in the accomplishment of the task).

            If the back office has continual crashes, then there is a problem. Are those made better or worse by a migration? Well, software crashes are ostensibly eliminated. Hooray! Server crashes are supposed to be. We know, though, that connectivity crashes increase. We know that network congestion issues increase. We know that software crashes still occur, but now are even more mysterious because they are remote and cannot be diagnosed or repaired locally. Thus, has the "my system crashes" been improved, or has the office now incurred an added expense for increased bandwidth, increased network traffic monitoring, and constant upgrades of local software? Has the local office not also necessitated a further need for a contract for "gold level" service to get online help to diagnose and fix issues that might occur?

            So, the small office with an outdated stand-alone Access database, an outdated set of word processors, an outdated set of presentation software, and outdated photo software is improved, financially, how by migrating? They expend for the licenses, and then for the better licenses, and then for the connections, and for the network engineer to be on staff, and then their actual at-desk productivity is higher in what respect?

            At corporate offices, it's easy to advise the latest. At a cash starved site, it's not.

            "man, proud man,/ Drest in a little brief authority,. . . Plays such fantastic tricks before high heaven/ As make the angels weep; who, with our spleens,/ Would all themselves laugh mortal." -- Shakespeare, Measure for Measure II ii, 117-23

            by The Geogre on Tue May 20, 2014 at 08:43:09 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I think you two are talking about two completely (4+ / 0-)

              different needs.
              The Management Consultant Wisper works with are very likely large enough (or established enough) that their customer are not:
              A. An individual.
              B. A very small business with just PoS software.
              C. A back office in a small school.

              For the latter three cases, a retail software would work. At the same time, in the latter three cases, they likely don't have the resource or need to hire a management consultant.

  •  The Cloud bin berry berrry good to me... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    nextstep, bmcphail, Zorge

    So, I get a shit-tonne of software with constant upgrades for $50/month?  Versus shelling out thousands every couple years for a very few upgrades?

    Help!  I'm being oppressed!

    You didn't include that the server outage didn't stop the software from working, only limited updates and sharing.

    People bitching about the CC can go over to GIMP or whatever, good luck with that.  Nobody's shackling you to Adobe.

    •  Oh really? How are you supposed to access (3+ / 0-)

      your data when the cloud server is down?

      You have watched Faux News, now lose 2d10 SAN.

      by Throw The Bums Out on Tue May 20, 2014 at 07:52:06 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  You don't work in Cloud. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        thanatokephaloides

        I'm not sure what's it like with Adobe Creative Cloud, but my experience with MSDN is that the "Cloud" is just where you get your software. Once you have a license, you get unlimited access to a set of softwares. You generally keep your data locally. If the cloud is down, you can keep on working. The only thing that impact you if the cloud is down is.
        A. You cannot update your software (which is not exactly a problem over the short term).
        B. You cannot download/install new software (which may be   a problem if you need said software immediately).

      •  Simple (0+ / 0-)

        You save it to your own computer.  Or an external hard drive, like I do.

        Voila!  You have ready access to all your work, even if you're not connected to the internet.

        Really.

        I have Lightroom, Photoshop, and Acrobat Pro installed on the laptop I'm currently posting from.  I periodically take the laptop to a coffee shop and work there, and don't get on the internet... and guess what?

        My apps work just fine.

        Magic is the fine art of getting off your ass and doing something.

        by Damiana on Tue May 20, 2014 at 01:42:34 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Answer to Cloud Crashes (3+ / 0-)

    Do not use the cloud to store your work; maybe for a backup copy but nothing else. Adobe subscription allows local storage. Bit Torrents Sync is a great way to simultaneously store work on both your desktop and laptop. I use it to send art and communications to 3 different computers for backup.

  •  And "Cloud" sounds so "secure" (4+ / 0-)

    No way the NSA or enterprising ID thief could ever penetrate "the Cloud."

    And God said, "Let there be light"; and with a Big Bang, there was light. And God said "Ow! Ow My eyes!" and in a flash God separated light from darkness. "Whew! Now that's better. Now where was I. Oh yea . . ."

    by Pale Jenova on Tue May 20, 2014 at 07:26:11 AM PDT

  •  I see a few upsides. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kurt

    Somebody I know needed Photoshop for just one image. It would be crazy to pay full price, so he just got it from The Pirate Bay. Adobe could charge $5 for a one-shot use like that, so everybody wins except The Pirate Bay.

    When I was starting a tax business, I couldn't afford a $600 software package - but I found a website with a pay-as-you-go plan for, I dunno, ten bucks a return. If I was doing a thousand returns that would be robbery; but I only did twelve that first year.

    Also, there's a few plus points to leasing a car.  If it's a business car it makes the accounting really simple. Also, getting a newer model is easy - just return the old one, pick up the new one, maybe sign a new contract - done.

    That said, not too many people lease their cars.

    Early to rise and early to bed Makes a man healthy, wealthy, and dead. --Not Benjamin Franklin

    by Boundegar on Tue May 20, 2014 at 07:27:51 AM PDT

  •  I can see using subscription software, but storing (4+ / 0-)

    all your stuff on somebody else's computer is crazy. Disk space is dirt cheap. Work locally, use the cloud for backup.

    •  Disk space is only dirt cheap (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      xanjabu

      when you only see the disk.  The sunk costs around care and feeding that stuff is far from cheap, dirt or otherwise.

      What large corporation with massive global IT needs can you think of that is moving AWAY from the cloud?

      Even the really big ones, like mine, are just building their own private cloud.  It NEVER makes sense to work locally.

      Im personally working RIGHT NOW (as in, on my other monitor that is not showing Daily Kos) on two more data center consolidations to get all this infrastructure out of these small offices around the country left over from different departments or companies we bought or whatever that were more concerned about building their own little fiefdom that they keep locally.  All of that is being reduced to ZERO and the cost savings is massive.  Its one of the biggest priorities of my division to get all these costs down.

      Красота спасет мир --F. Dostoevsky

      by Wisper on Tue May 20, 2014 at 08:31:09 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  zip 'n encrypt! too.. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jck, thanatokephaloides
  •  Cloud anything is a security disaster waiting to (5+ / 0-)

    happen.

    The only way to stop the rental movement is to not partake. Just stick to companies and products for sale.

    I have never even seen a software program worthy of "renting".

  •  For $300 you can get (6+ / 0-)

    Xara Designer Pro 9

    Opens any PS or AI file.

    Xara Designer Pro X9 is our flagship all-in-one creative title. In one completely integrated and consistent interface it provides all the tools for a range of graphic design tasks that would normally require three or more separate ‘suite’ programs: illustration, photo editing, advanced page layout, web graphics, websites and more.

    By combining all the photo, graphic design, illustration, page layout and web design tools in one program, Xara Designer Pro X9 achieves a smaller memory footprint, faster performance, no program switching and reduced hardware requirements. This also has the advantage of an easier learning curve, high productivity and excellent value for money!

    I've been using Xara since ver 1.1 and upgrades are very inexpensive.

    Tons of clip art, fonts, fills etc come with it. And its vector not raster.

    Free 30 day trial version too.

    I have no affiliation with Xara.

    "The good Earth — we could have saved it, but we were too damn cheap and lazy." Kurt Vonnegut - "A Man Without a Country", 2005.

    by BOHICA on Tue May 20, 2014 at 08:16:34 AM PDT

  •  the trouble is (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    shaharazade, Zorge, kurt

    the idea of "buy once and use forever" was predicated on your hardware and OS also being usable forever which has been a false assumption ever since the internet gave us the first worm.

    the question then becomes whether you prefer to pay large lump sums to upgrade every couple years or do you prefer to pay monthly installments over the same time period and just seamlessly migrate between versions as they release updates?

    the "data in the cloud" problem definitely needs addressing because we've already had at least one example of customer data being held hostage, another example of customer data simply disappearing into the aether when the cloud provider went bankrupt and additional examples of cloud data being not as private as the customers would have liked.

    software as a service, though, is really not so different from what we had at the beginning of the computer era where we had to rent time on mainframes and connect via terminal emulators over dial-up.

    •  Actually, it is more true than it used to be (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      thanatokephaloides

      thanks to all sorts of solutions that weren't available or usable back then.  Hell, I have Windows for Workgroups 3.11 running on my cell phone which doesn't even have a Windows compatible CPU.  Not to mention half a dozen XP virtual machines for various purposes (which are all using nonpersistant disks and can only write files to a single locked down directory on the host) and yes, I plan on sticking with XP for them since it runs nicely in 192MB of RAM.

      You have watched Faux News, now lose 2d10 SAN.

      by Throw The Bums Out on Tue May 20, 2014 at 09:00:12 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Heh (5+ / 0-)

    With the George on the "this is not new" part.  Computing has gone back and forth between server and client side, over and over.  Ever since client side got powerful enough to run your stuff.  The current trend toward everything on a web site and everything subscribed is partly motivated by the same view of the user that led Jobs to take out replaceable batteries...you're too dumb to set up your own software or read a guide, so we'll just manage the configuration for you, for a fee.  We've voted for this model with our dollars for awhile now. in many ways.

    But there are tools which I think I definitely want on my computer if I lose my job and every penny to my name, because that's where more pennies come from.  Office is like that, which is why I buy it (the idea of having to renew a subscription to send a CV is viscerally revolting).  I don't do web design but I imagine Adobe users may feel a bit that way about their tools.  In which case this is another bright MBA idea that won't serve them well, and someday all those nice Lake Union offices may belong to artists.  Or collection agencies.

    ...j'ai découvert que tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos dans une chambre.

    by jessical on Tue May 20, 2014 at 08:26:57 AM PDT

  •  Jen, What do you need Photoshop CC for? (6+ / 0-)

    You're an artist -- do you need Camera Shake Reduction?

    Tell me what new features you "gotta have?"

    Unless you've got CS2 or something ancient like that, I strongly recommend you get one of the vanishing boxed copies of CS6 (last one that took a serial number) and buy yourself some time.

    Maybe competition to Adobe will appear in the next three years.  There is a powerful interest in undercutting them.  They've run out of new features to "entice" people to upgrade.

    Happy little moron, Lucky little man.
    I wish I was a moron, MY GOD, Perhaps I am!
    —Spike Milligan

    by polecat on Tue May 20, 2014 at 08:32:17 AM PDT

  •  Lots of folks upset with Adobe over this move (4+ / 0-)

    They tried to sell Lightroom as all most non-professionals require as an alternative to Photoshop.  It's baloney: they simply want to maximize revenues via a neverending pay-to-play model and cynically figure that most creative houses and even many independents would feel no option exists due to lack of true competition to Photoshop.

    So, I'm holding onto my precious copy of CS6 until real competition does arrive.

    "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

    by wader on Tue May 20, 2014 at 08:47:28 AM PDT

  •  Love it, Jen! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    thanatokephaloides

    I've just sent in my app for HaaS. Hope it gets through the cloud survey filters of flag so I can be a human of service again.

    Remember back in the day when you setup your first local network? That trusty FTP server. Yeah, that was a "cloud" service. Soon, HTTP was hosted on your local LAN -> WAN. Then came the firewalls. Well, Proxies first? I'm on the train but getting off the next stop. Now I'm even renting a service to post this comment. SMaaS? Or, BaaS? Someone actually posted there was an app for the later? Too funny. ;( Wait! It was CaaS? Commenting... "some" MBAaaS?

    I briefly tried explaining the history of this cloud thingy to a bunch of classmates awhile ago that were given and undergrad(?) if they passed this IT class we were in. Things started movin, I could sense it, when I said that you could create your own private cloud(s) right now... whoa, sunlight.

    Love the Rent explainations as well in the thread. This comment was provided mostly free of charge... I'm not only a client but a service in the client/service modal.

  •  I like Creative Cloud (0+ / 0-)

    I paid for the Adobe software once in my life and I had to take out a damn loan to do it. The way I look at it is, it costs me $900 to get a software suit that used to update every 18 months or so and would cost about $2,400 and that I was going to wind up having to buy anyway.

    The service could be better, admittedly. It would be nice if you were eventually given a choice to own a version of the software, but it was no longer eligible for upgrades vs. keep on paying in the CC until the next option to own comes up.
    Or if they had better ala cart pricing. I'm never going to use Premier, for example. It'd be nice if I could cut that out and save a few bucks.

    I don't think its a bad service at all. I make enough money freelancing to cover its costs within the first few months of the year, easily. And I don't even do much freelancing these days. I just got tired of trying to pirate and crack everything because the software was previously mind bogglingly expensive.

    My style is impetuous.
    My defense is impregnable.
    YOU'RE NOT ALEXANDER!

    by samfish on Tue May 20, 2014 at 09:54:20 AM PDT

  •  CHOICE (7+ / 0-)

    It all comes down to choice, and the way corporations take it away to suit themselves... and line their pockets.

    Here's an analogy:

    A pouch of tuna is flat and lightweight compared to a can of tuna, only 3oz, it's convenient because you can tear it open with just your hands, but it's more than twice as expensive as a can of tuna.  A can can be bulky to carry to work for lunch, you get 6 oz or more of tuna which is more than I care to eat for lunch, which means smelly leftovers or wasted tuna, and you need a special implement to cut open the can.  But it's way cheaper than the pouch of tuna fish, plus you get more tuna.

    If I'm at home, making sandwiches for a lot of people, I would resent being forced to buy twice as many pouches of twice as expensive tuna rather than being allowed to buy fewer, less expensive cans.  But at work, I prefer the easy-open, just-the-right-size pouch of tuna for lunch despite the cost.

    So when I see people defend the Cloud in the comment section, I want to say that I think it's great that it's a system that works for you despite the higher long-term cost... but you have to understand, it is not a system that works for many others, including me.  I resent Adobe deciding what's best for me, because it's funny how what's supposedly best for me seems to work out to a lot of extra money out of my pocket and into theirs.

    •  I have to agree with Teenygozer (7+ / 0-)

      As a retired IT professional that moved from client server to server client for years as the trends flowed through  - the real issue is choice.

      A small office with three computers - who only do correspondence needs to purchase some software and own it.  They don't need a continuous bill for one function.  A production graphics art company with a lot of computers probably needs the lease model.  The time alone not needing to upgrade would be cost effective.

      The cloud solution is not of interest in my husbands photography business.   He is concerned about loss of his work - via the internet not being available, the cloud server  being offline or being shut out for no reason - we had this happen with gmail once.   Suddenly all gone.   Trust in cloud disappeared with it.  With virtually no support from these companies except what you can find out searching,

       I was in charge of finding cloud storage for backup for a government agency a few years back and none of the vendors wanted to talk about security - we were expected just to stick tax data out here with no guarantee of who could see or take it or any idea where it was located or who had another copy.   No thanks.  Hopefully that has improved.   I would not pay through the nose for leased space with no security.  Like having a warehouse with no locks on the doors.

      For us a copy of CS6 and waiting for more choices and competition to come on the market.   We are small and have multiple computers so if one is down the next one is fired up work continues - internet cloud server or whatever down - doesn't affect us.   we know how to back up and restore.

      We just want choices NOT to participate in the cloud if the model doesn't work for us.    The one size fits all removing all other choices and the poor record of customer service will down Adobe eventually.

      •  downing Adobe (0+ / 0-)
        We just want choices NOT to participate in the cloud if the model doesn't work for us.    The one size fits all removing all other choices and the poor record of customer service will down Adobe eventually.
        And their abandonment of Linux/BSD will eventually kill Flash/Shockwave dead as doornails.

        "It's high time (and then some) that we put an end to the exceptionalistic nonsense floating around in our culture and face the fact that either the economy works for all, or it doesn't work AT all." -- Sean McCullough (DailyKos user thanatokephaloides)

        by thanatokephaloides on Tue May 20, 2014 at 04:54:02 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  It's a scam. And I don't blame anyone who (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    meinoregon, thanatokephaloides

    gets it and "unlocks it" from the cloud from doing so.

    Hillary does not have the benefit of a glib tongue.

    by The Dead Man on Tue May 20, 2014 at 12:37:25 PM PDT

  •  Cloud business model. There's nothing there there. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    meinoregon, thanatokephaloides

    The Internet has no clothes.

  •  Deja Vue (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    thanatokephaloides

    First - remember that ivy covered bastion of Computer mediocrity - Microsoft? Yeah they have been working for YEARS to figure out how to make software they never had to sell. That way, if it stank, who you gonna call? In fact - yeah FACT! Microsoft was not a good maker of software - EVER. THink? Windoze, NT, Server, Office version I dunno? Entourage, Mail, Movies for windows, Explorer... etc. Hell - all by themselves Word and Excel created the way to have viruses pass from person to person in the brilliance of "Macros", making a document into an application! No - What Microsoft actually did was to create the contract by which they never sold software to anyone. If IBM had read the contract before they bought someone else's DOS from Bill G and Paul A who didn't write it, they would have noticed that there was a radical clause requiring IBM to never alter a single thing in the code or else IBM would revert to a licensed user and Microsoft would retain all future rights to DOS. Hence the idea of renting to rent. The cloud has been tried under various monikers for a decade and the same thing applies - once you do not HAVE the software you never ever will GET the software without getting screwed. So get your DVD's now and hunker down.

  •  Use the GIMP instead (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    thanatokephaloides

    It's free and open-source.

    Linux forever!

  •  Tell me about it (0+ / 0-)

    Adobe FrameMaker is one of, ahem,

    SEVERAL

    pricey-both-to-buy-and-to-train-yourself-on programs that are essential for tech writers to learn. Purchasing it outright is crazily expensive, and thus... voila, you can always rent through the cloud. Yecch.

  •  I experienced this years ago. (0+ / 0-)

    I bought a game through Comcast, and rather than download it (knowing that I would replace my computer eventually, and not be able to transfer the game to a new one) I bought it on disk to make sure I owned it, like a boardgame. After a couple years, the program didn't work anymore because the authorization had expired. I'm still trying to figure out some way to get it working again.

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