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Christopher Martinez was one of the victims in this weekend's mass shooting in Isla Vista, California. His father has taken to the airwaves to make an emotional plea to politicians on behalf of grieving parents—DO SOMETHING! See his thought-provoking interview with CNN here:

Transcript below:
"We're all proud to be Americans. But, what kind of message does it send to the world that we have such a rudderless bunch of idiots in government? I can't tell you how angry I am! It's just awful! And no parent should have to go through this! No parent! To have a kid die? Because in this kind of a situation, what has changed? Have we learned nothing? These things are going to continue until somebody does something. So, where the hell is the leadership? Where the hell are these people we elect to Congress and spend so much money on? These people are getting rich sitting in Congress and and what do they do? They don't take care about our kids. My kid died because NOBODY responded to what occurred in Sandy Hook. Those parents lost little kids! It's bad enough that I lost my 20 year old, but I had 20 years with my son! That's all I'll ever have, but those people lost their children at 6 or 7 years old. How do you think they feel?! And who's talking to them now? Who's doing anything for them now? Who's standing up for those kids who died back then? In an elementary school! Why wasn't something done? It's outrageous!"

Richard Martinez, father of shooting victim Christopher Martinez, doing an interview with CNN

Originally posted to Scout Finch on Tue May 27, 2014 at 06:37 AM PDT.

Also republished by Shut Down the NRA, Repeal or Amend the Second Amendment (RASA), and Daily Kos.

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Comment Preferences

  •  I am glad he is saying (49+ / 0-)

    this loud and clear.  The media kowtows to the NRA and lets them bully us into silence.  Gun owners want their "rights' but what about the rest of us?  We have a right to walk down the street without some yahoo with a gun and a self absorbed vendetta shooting us down.

  •  Because the evening news (10+ / 0-)

    makes money from the ADT ads after announcing this week's tragedy.

    •  And the NRA (15+ / 0-)

      will spin Mr. Martinez's question, "Why wasn't something done?" into, "See, if everyone could carry guns everywhere, someone would have taken the shooter out". It's their answer for everything, and there are apparently enough delusional RWGNs out there who believe this with all their hearts to be true...because they're obviously not thinking with their brains.

      •  And "gun control" proponents (4+ / 0-)

        will spin this to deflect attention away from their support for half-measures and hollow defense of the "responsible gun owner" myth.  California has passed and implemented the national control agenda and more.  Everything worked precisely as it was intended to on paper.  And this is the result.

        In a state as overwhelmingly progressive and large as California, there is little excuse for tolerating a fifth of the population being armed.  

        •  wow, no (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          the assault weapons ban isn't enacted for one, something even in the party platform

          half measures? are state of the art and better than no measures, while the national and party platform is blocked

          your comment doesn't make any sense to me, it actually seems terribly disjointed

          I hope this isn't intentional, it probably is

          •  The new amendments (0+ / 0-)

            which would ban any semi-automatic centerfire rifle that could accept a detachable magazine, and only because Gov. Brown vetoed it.  But California's ban has been in place since 1989, and amended since.

          •  And yes, half measures (0+ / 0-)

            Leaky AWBs.  A background check system that places the burden on public agencies to show disqualifying cause rather than buyers to show fitness.  Gutless exemptions for manufacturers.  

            •  But you ridicule the efforts of those who've (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              mightynurse, Piren

              fought for even that much. That's reprehensible.

              •  No, it's reprehensible that (0+ / 0-)

                the largest impact of  the "efforts" of those who've fought before is the mass incarceration of young, Black men on felony weapons charges.

                So no, I don't give those who've fought before credit, because they've done enormous damage seeking punitive measures that stick the Black community for a bill run up by manufacturers and so-called "responsible gun owners."  All because they're too chickenshit to do what needs to be done.  And that includes not doing a grave injustice by locking up Black men in job lots.

                •  So if they (or we) are chickenshit (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Piren, Dvalkure, bryduck

                  what's your solution? That is a sincere, non-rhetorical question. If Wall Street runs amok with impunity, Walmart et al. get away with flouting 60+ years of labor organizing, Monsanto has their way with the FDA and can copyright frigging seeds...obviously we have a seriously corrupted legislative process. I don't disagree with your comments about young Black men, but that doesn't really add to the dialogue, IMHO. Yes, I would be curious to see what would happen in TX if a bunch of YBMs decided to exercise Open Carry in a fast food restaurant (The videos on the web recently from Chili's and Sonic seem to have been filmed by a black man- the crackers must have been peeing themselves in fear and awe). So what to do when moms are intimidated and threatened? Next they'll be shooting up apple pies...

                  •  This (0+ / 0-)

                    to start.  Also discussed here and even proposed some compromises with gun rights activists here.

                    Show me what we can accomplish in towns, cities and states that we dominate.  Show me that we can at least do what needs to be done to prevent Elliot Rodgers from getting his hand on a gun.  Show me that all of this worth the price my community continues to shoulder year after year with no payoff.  Show me that you actually care about getting something done more than you care about pissing off a bunch of open carry yahoos, Wayne Pierre, and RKBA.

          •  Horrible Violence (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            I have no way of knowing the hurt that this father is feeling over the loss of his child. Other mothers and fathers are also hurting over the loss of their children in this incident by guns and knives (or a machete).

            However, one gets the impression from the media that gun violence is becoming an epidemic that includes mass shootings.

            The statistics show clearly that murder and non-lethal violence using firearms has been on a strong negative trajectory since a peak in 1993. Why it has been going down I am not sure. I had speculated that murders by firearm had dropped because of much improved emergency room procedures and care.

            I looked today a Pew Research paper from 2013 (with data through 2010) and the FBI statistics (with data through 2011 or 2012). I don't think there is much question about the accuracy of these numbers.


            In 1993 there were 18253 murders in the US using some type of firearm. In 2011 there were 11101. The number of injuries dropped by a larger proportion.

            Since 1993 about 70 million guns have been produced and sold to civilians in the US or imported for civilian sales. There are far more guns in the hands of US residents now than in 1993, the number is uncertain. Polls show the percentage of homes with guns has gone down. That may be true, or it may reflect some paranoia about answering honestly on surveys.

            Another way of looking at these statistics with focus on murder by firearms, the changes since 1993 to 2011:

            The population increased by about 23%
            Firearms murders dropped by nearly 40%

            As an aside - a comment about the focus on "assault" rifles:  the murder rate using such firearms is so low that statistics are not available or reliable. The FBI does keep track of the count of murders using rifles. It was 323 in 2011. And in the same year murder by use of "hands, fists, feet etc" was 728. Murders by knives etc: 1694.

            This of course in not the least bit of consolation for a parent who has lost a child to firearm violence. But if I was a social planner trying to reduce this horrible violence I would think we are on a good trajectory. I wish it was a steeper curve. And I have no idea why there has been such a drop over the years.

            Most people "know" that gun violence rates are exploding in the US. I happen to live in Canada where the rates are considerably lower. I had to take a class in order to receive a license to purchase a rifle or shotgun or any form on ammunition in Canada. And there is a background check that can be somewhat intrusive. Like interviews with an ex-wife, or previous employers. To be able to purchase a handgun requires a different class and an even more intrusive background check. And handguns must be secured separate from ammunition when traveling - among other restrictions.

            What is surprising: in Canada one may purchase (without the Restricted Firearm permit that I have - just the basic license) a 50 or 100 round magazine! But only for rim fire cartridges such as the .22 caliber.

            I hope this presentation of facts at a time of grieving does not offend anyone.

      •  We gave them a chance to test their hypothesis (7+ / 0-)

        As idiotic as their hypothesis is, and it doesn't work.  Easy access to guns doesn't stop gun violence, it only means more gun violence.  

        "Corporations exist not for themselves, but for the people." Ida Tarbell 1908.

        by Navy Vet Terp on Tue May 27, 2014 at 05:46:30 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  What Navy Vet, Rduran and Mightynurse say is (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          True BUT one of the biggest issues with both this wackjob and the wackjob at Sandy Hook, was that the police cannot arrest, nor can doctors and hospitals lock up, someone for what they MIGHT do, only for what they HAVE done.  It's part of due process.  The issue with this guy (less than Sandy Hook) was he actually posted threatening videos before the event and the cops should have put him on a 72 hour hold. But I don't know what we can do that doesn't damage our (all of our) due process rights.  

          UGH, TEXAS. Please secede!

          by u028021 on Tue May 27, 2014 at 06:42:04 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Let's try damaging our "due process rights" (0+ / 0-)

            If it's that offensive, we have a court system that will take care of it.  However, I'd wager even under the strictest standard the state's interest in preserving life using something as unobtrusive and narrow as temporary confiscation would survive scrutiny.  In any case, it would be years before a case could muscle its way up the food chain.

      •  They ain't thinking with their hearts either. (0+ / 0-)

        They are just walking piles of fear and insecurity.

  •  The State of California did respond and (9+ / 0-)

    the Democratic State Legislature improved the gun control laws in California, post the Sandy Hook tragedy. California has all the laws proposed in Congress, but not passed at the federal level, and more.

    "let's talk about that" uid 92953

    by VClib on Tue May 27, 2014 at 07:19:27 AM PDT

    •  The NRA and their ilk... (8+ / 0-)

      will latch onto the fact that this occurred in California, which has stricter gun laws, and run with it, just as they did with the fact that Sandy Hook was in Connecticut.  Their entire argument will consist of 'Strict gun laws didn't prevent this, so therefore they are pointless and should be eliminated.'

      Ignoring again the warning signs which were evident about this person and the fact that current gun laws didn't allow law enforcement to do a thing about it (on top of the police not doing their full due diligence in the matter of the Isla Vista shooter having apparently not looked at the disturbing videos before confronting him).

  •  Started quoting it today (20+ / 0-)

    Right here, on this thread.  There will be heat and light.

    H/T to Hound Dog for posting it earlier, where I learned of this heart-wrenching interview that said everything I was trying to say by reasoning.

    Mr. Martinez speaks truth to power if ever anyone did. I really hope it shames some politicians into acting or at least stepping aside. His son, and the Sandy Hook kids should not have died totally in vain.

    Quote it often.

    No one is coming to save us, the future is in our hands.

    by koNko on Tue May 27, 2014 at 08:22:54 AM PDT

  •  California Mental Health Firearms Prohibition doc (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    nellgwen, historys mysteries

    One who is well enough to purchase weapons, plan an attack, and conceal his intentions from law enforcement and mental health professionals will likely get the chance to carry out that plan.  

    Correct me if wrong, but I'm not sure if a 5150 hold would have been sufficient to warrant searching the young man's residence and possessions.

    The NRA/gun manufacturers goal of arming everybody, of course, would not make anyone safer, but would demean and cheapen us all.

    •  In 1997 it was not (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      I had to 5150 my wife in SF.  We were living separately. The 5150 did not provide grounds for a warrant.

      •  I expect little has changed re search. (0+ / 0-)

        If the parents had lied to the police and mental health about the existence of weapons,would the police then have made a more thorough search?

        A profound decision for you to make.  

        •  Eh, by the time ya get to filing for involuntary (3+ / 0-)

          hold on a family member, you're way past that being a profound decision.

          Trust me on this one.

          •  So...just don't even try? (0+ / 0-)

            Is that what you're saying? That it isn't worth the effort to make it even more of a priority to make sure people with mental problems don't have access to guns?

            If so, I gotta disagree. We should at least TRY, and this horrible story puts a spotlight on it. And Sandy Hook has never really gone away, and won't, until they address it somehow.

            "I feel a lot safer already."--Emil Sitka

            by DaddyO on Tue May 27, 2014 at 06:11:58 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  OK, don't know how ya got that- (0+ / 0-)

              I was saying that, once you've gotten anywhere near placing the hold, you've already decided that it's worth whatever it costs to get them into a safe place. Very often, it costs you your relationship with the person you're trying to help.

              So, their knowing that you dropped the dime? Whatever. They've already seen your signature on the paperwork.


              to make sure people with mental problems don't have access to guns?
              I live with a mental illness, as do my wife and my father. My wife and i are the adoptive parents of a now-successful at-risk child. My dad has argued before SCOTUS on three separate issues. We're all highly functional people.

              I have no idea what you mean by

              people with mental problems
              ...but just phrasing it that way makes ya sound ignorant. Mental illness is a very broad spectrum that you seem to have reduced to a convenient boogeyman- ya might wanna think about why.
    •  Here's 3 examples of insane people with guns (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      OldDragon, 417els, john07801, old mule, judiadg

      which are overlooked

      NRA Ted Nugent ----- Moolisha ----- Kessler

      These people are not entirely sane.


      Open flinging in Texas

    •  i have no idea what's in the law (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      What SHOULD be in the law is the ability of a person's family to prohibit them from purchasing firearms legally. He had autism. They knew he was troubled. They tried to get law enforcement to intervene at least once in his life.

      Make it a little bit harder for people with mental problems to obtain guns--it's the least we should be able to ask for, and do.

      "I feel a lot safer already."--Emil Sitka

      by DaddyO on Tue May 27, 2014 at 05:56:47 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Well-checks should be conducted by (0+ / 0-)

      mental health professionals, not police, for one thing. You are correct that a 5150 does not give the right for a search.

      A well-check does in California. This literally just went to the ACLU here like three weeks ago; a well-check on someone wound up turning into a warrantless search of the home. That's not the answer either.

      The problem is finding a balance between correct intervention and a hand's off, isolationist attitude toward the severely mentally ill. Both have been problematic for various reasons. One thing that would help though is if the first point of contact for someone who seemed like they were acting "off" might be to have them contacted by a psychiatrist/psychologist instead of a police officer to determine the best course of action.

      This would have saved several peoples' lives who I know personally.

      Click the ♥ to join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news & views written from a black pov - everyone is welcome.

      by mahakali overdrive on Tue May 27, 2014 at 06:22:50 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Stabbed His Three Roommates To Death? (0+ / 0-)

    Did I understand that right?

    Men are so necessarily mad, that not to be mad would amount to another form of madness. -Pascal

    by bernardpliers on Tue May 27, 2014 at 09:15:52 AM PDT

  •  What EXACTLY should have been done? (0+ / 0-)

    Seriously, what exact steps would have prevented this tragedy?

  •  how much more heartbreak can we handle (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    judiadg, mjd in florida

    before we take to the streets and demand that our cowardly lawmakers do something?!?!

    honestly, I've no idea....
    but speaking as someone who has never lost anyone to senseless gun violence, I'm at wits end.

    every adult is responsible for every child

    by ridemybike on Tue May 27, 2014 at 05:47:59 PM PDT

  •  I'm starting to think that we don't just have (6+ / 0-)

    a serious gun availability, misuse and abuse problem in the US that we're not dealing with properly (although we do), but we also have a serious mental illness, anger, hate and violence problem in the US that we're not dealing with properly. The convergence of the two is what's likely causing this tragic spurt of rampage shootings, not just one or the other.

    This country is mass-producing a small army of extremely angry, hateful, crazy, disturbed, sociopathic psycho killers with no other goal than to murder as many people as possible, and the easy availability of guns is making it easy. Why is that? Is it the economy, a sense (for some) that things are falling apart? The pressure to succeed, make money, impress, be popular, etc., and the resulting pain when some are unable to live up to these standards? Is it because we've become cold, rude, mean, petty, insensitive, crass, detached, etc., and it makes some people just snap?

    "Reagan's dead, and he was a lousy president" -- Keith Olbermann 4/22/09

    by kovie on Tue May 27, 2014 at 05:49:00 PM PDT

    •  Eeeee-yup (0+ / 0-)

      "I feel a lot safer already."--Emil Sitka

      by DaddyO on Tue May 27, 2014 at 06:13:31 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Jinx... that was what I just posted (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kovie, memiller, moviemeister76, Dvalkure

      more or less.

      My current theory is that we're underdiagnosing people with serious mental illnesses in favor of giving them lighter diagnoses to avoid social stigma. Think about what diagnoses have cropped up recently in the DSM (not used by other countries in that it's published by the American Psychological Association, IIRC). They're splitting disorders more and more and adding new ones based on... what? Not science.

      So now, we have a lot of people with disorders that would have previously been labeled and treated differently, but instead, somehow magically, they all have some other disorder.

      Also, and this sounds crass, but it's not meant to, instead of calling the men in little white coats, you can only call the men in blue in an emergency.

      Does anyone in this thread even know anyone who has been committed to an institution involuntarily? I do, a relative, from a time long gone. And I'm glad because he got the help he needed and lead a happy life after that. But it's not very common these days because it's a sticky wicket. What if they get it wrong? Of course, that cuts both ways.

      So the problem is really big.

      And in all of this, I've become fairly "anti-gun" actually. But I continue to see what I see in terms of not treating the mentally ill appropriately. To me, that gets to the politics of mental illness and stigma conjoined with the DSM's ever-expanding illness categories.

      Click the ♥ to join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news & views written from a black pov - everyone is welcome.

      by mahakali overdrive on Tue May 27, 2014 at 06:33:29 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'm sure you're right (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mahakali overdrive

        But I'm focusing more on how it at least seems that more people actually are more mentally ill, angry, unhappy, unstable, etc., these days, whether or not they're getting the treatment they need for it. I think that the society and times we live in are make more people this way than used to be the case PLUS we're not dealing with it properly AND there are vastly more easily available guns out there than used to be the case. The combination is literally lethal.

        "Reagan's dead, and he was a lousy president" -- Keith Olbermann 4/22/09

        by kovie on Tue May 27, 2014 at 06:38:40 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I don't know about this (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          I don't think more people are mentally ill now than before, though I could be wrong. But it seems to me that we are so much more open about it than we used to be. People used to get hidden away in institutions and not talked about in the past. And people who weren't locked up were too frightened to even admit they had mental illness because the stigma used to be far worse, and that's saying something because it's pretty bad today.

          Two hundred fifty years of slavery. Ninety years of Jim Crow. Sixty years of separate but equal. Thirty-five years of racist housing policy. Until we reckon with our compounding moral debts, America will never be whole. - Ta-Nehisi Coates

          by moviemeister76 on Tue May 27, 2014 at 10:01:42 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I'm talking about a particular kind of mental (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            moviemeister76, enufenuf

            illness that seems more prevalent these days, an "Angry Male" syndrome that afflicts certain kinds of men with a massive and unwarranted sense of male entitlement that in their mind has been denied them. Or, perhaps, they don't sense a meaningful and useful role for themselves in today's world, and it makes them angry and spiteful. There seems to be more of this these days than in the past. And media outlets like Fox and shock jocks like Limbaugh are stirring it up and making it worse. Add guns and a culture of violence and I think this partly explains the surge in rampage killings.

            "Reagan's dead, and he was a lousy president" -- Keith Olbermann 4/22/09

            by kovie on Wed May 28, 2014 at 06:37:09 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  I read just (2+ / 0-)

        lately that there are 13 times more mentally ill people in prison in the USA, than in mental institutions.

        I buy and sell well trained riding mules and American Mammoth Jack Stock.

        by old mule on Tue May 27, 2014 at 06:50:01 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  With all respect to a father's justified grief (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    there is nothing "rudderless" about Congress. They steer the ship of state with eyes on the Shining Star of Big Bucks, by whom all election campaigns are funded.

  •  The real mystery is how many parents DON'T do this (5+ / 0-)

    There are so many parents and family members of gun violence who are just as aggrieved as this man. I have no idea how each and every one of them keeps from ranting to any camera pointed their way. I guess it takes someone who's not afraid to let the world know exactly how they feel.

    If my child had died this way, I would be doing exactly what this man is doing--only with worse language.

    God help us all.

    "I feel a lot safer already."--Emil Sitka

    by DaddyO on Tue May 27, 2014 at 05:50:28 PM PDT

  •  Raw heartbreaking emotion. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jbsoul, mjd in florida, memiller

    After viewing so many fake talking heads, pundits and politicians, it was startling to see such a powerful and heartfelt statement.  I hope that he can find some peace.  

    I'm not always political, but when I am I vote Democratic. Stay Democratic, my friends. -The Most Interesting Man in the World

    by boran2 on Tue May 27, 2014 at 05:57:31 PM PDT

  •  The NRA flaunts Ted Nugent. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mjd in florida, Paddy999

    Sean Hannity calls for moolisha to take over public land.
    Rogue police chiefs post insanity on the internet
    Guns are taken to restaurants like that isn't crazy.

    The will to stop this just isn't there. Let's hope this time, this voice, joining the voices of the parents --- let's hope this voice speaks loud enough to not be ignored.

    NRA Ted Nugent ----- Moolisha ----- Kessler

    Chipotle ----- Open flinging in Texas

  •  Post this video on your SM - show public support (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jbsoul, mjd in florida

    That's the least anyone can do. Send this grieving father's words out into the world and stand behind them publicly with your identity. Let the world know where you stand.

  •  Sorry, Mr. Martinez, it's just the price we pay. (0+ / 0-)

    With the fate of the country on a razor's edge, with the consequences being millions of disenfranchised minorities (voter ID laws and immigration reform), further erosion of the wages of the non-rich, revocation of universal health care, hundreds of thousands of lives of war victims, a tightened police state, and of course climate change we don't have much room for error. Sure, the politicians could do something, but I don't think it's worth the cost of the future of America.

    raditional America has spoken: they love their exploding dildos so much that they will sacrifice their children and the children of their neighbors in order to masturbate to their insane delusions and tribal totems. And I don't know about you, but I'd call a couple hundred thousand Americans prematurely murdered per generation is a goddamn bargain under these circumstances.

    If you want to blame someone, blame your neighbors and friends, not the politicians. They're the ones who have boxed our politicians into this cowardice.

  •  We Need A Huge Demonstration in DC! NOW! (0+ / 0-)

    I would love for Bloomberg to dig deep in to his fortune to sponsor a huge demonstration in Washington that would be A Million People March for Sensible Gun Control.   I'm so tired of the Gun Profiteers dictating the laws on Guns.  And notice the Deafening Silence of Wayne "Satan's Emissary" La Pierre thus far?  He'll out soon with the same tired slogans.  When will we who believe in Sane Gun Laws take to the streets to show our chickenshit politicians that it's imperative that something be done?  I'll bet there would be huge crowds and protest in every city in this country if it was well publicized and well funded.  

  •  so many guns out there now (0+ / 0-)

    closing the barn gate now seems of little effect.... Although I'd love to see much stricter limits on semi-automatics going forward.

    This father, if anyone, will get something done.

    Audit the Pentagon: 25% of funding -- $2.3 Trillion dollars -- unaccounted for.

    by roonie on Tue May 27, 2014 at 06:11:51 PM PDT

  •  It's going to take another war (0+ / 0-)

    within our borders where thousands at a time are gunned down,  perhaps even entire cities leveled to wake up these crazy bastards. I hope I'm wrong on that, but doubt that I am.

    Jesus only performs miracles for people with enough time on their hands to make that crap up.

    by KneecapBuster on Tue May 27, 2014 at 06:13:04 PM PDT

  •  Congress will never be held responsible (0+ / 0-)

    for failing to act on intelligent and reasonable gun legislation.  At least, not until the American people stand up to be counted again and again that we do not want a country dictated by the gun lobby/NRA.

    As to this tragedy and this tragic young man, his mental illness and the ability to foresee the consequences of his distorted thoughts is another problem altogether.  His YouTube diatribe was there, his parents notified police. There is a fine line between an active interference of the police, but we don't want a police state; how do we walkt this tightrope?  

    His parents evidently were cognizant of his mental illness; he was having ongoing treatment throughout his life.  At the age of 18, our laws are set up such that they have no control over his taking medication or not; that is up to him.

    The knee-jerk reaction of the Reagan Adminitration over closing institutions and/or keeping only those a danger to themselves or others was valid to a point.  However, it did weaken the ability to house and treat those who need it; just look at the homeless situation.

    There is a fine line between the locking up of mentally ill people against their will; this is often hard to arrive at.  No one wants a human being held against their will.  

    I don't pretend to have the answer.  However, we do know there are hundreds of thousands on the streets, in families, in the workplace, and in our universities who would benefit from 24/7 treatment on an in-patient basis, but the laws won't allow it if you are 18 and refuse help.  

    Add to the state of illness that manifests along with the ease of obtaining a gun and you have a society that has deep problems.

    This is the worst Congress in our history; we know they have passed fewer legislation of any other Congress.  They have also cut their days of work.  Vote the bums out.  We need to start fresh with lawmakers who really WANT to improve the lot of the American people and good standing of this nation.

  •  I agree with him, but this tragedy would have (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    still occurred in some form or another with the three roommates who were butchered. Plain and simple.

    This is not just a gun issue; it is a mental health treatment PLUS gun issue. It is also a mental health treatment issue. It is a mental health diagnosis issue too. It is also a mentally unstable people who are misdiagnosed able to gain access to guns issue. And finally, it is a gun issue.

    It is also an issue of misogyny and racism.

    I would also like the government to better handle ALL of these things. The parents of the roommates are equally coping with the loss of their dead children who were brutally butchered, and I think we cannot be politically expedient here. The common denominator between all of these killers was undiagnosed/wrongly diagnosed or unmedicated delusional thinking of some nature credited to nothing more than Asperger's or drug use or violent video games in all cases that I can think of. All of them. That's a serious issue then.

    I feel for this man beyond belief and cannot imagine what it would be like to lose a son, and moreover, I am two degrees of separation from the boy :/ The thought of losing my son is unbearable, especially in such a senseless way. For this reason, we need to be careful to think about what is really happening and why and fix it all, or try to, rather than fixating on one part of the issue, which is probably one of the classic stages of grieving, and which ought to be addressed, but not ONLY. Not as some sort of panacea for what ails our society since there's so much more to it than one thing alone causing these children to die in the United States.

    Click the ♥ to join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news & views written from a black pov - everyone is welcome.

    by mahakali overdrive on Tue May 27, 2014 at 06:16:48 PM PDT

    •  I'm not entirely sure about this, MO: (0+ / 0-)
      I agree with him, but this tragedy would have still occurred in some form or another with the three roommates who were butchered. Plain and simple.
      You're assuming that he didn't use his guns in any way in those attacks.  It's obvious he didn't shoot those three people, but he may well have coerced them using a gun and then chosen a different method of killing them.  He may have preferred a knife because it would be quieter.

      Anyway, all of this is speculation, but I wouldn't necessarily assume the other kids would have died even if no guns had been involved.

      "Ça c'est une chanson que j'aurais vraiment aimé ne pas avoir écrite." -- Barbara

      by FogCityJohn on Tue May 27, 2014 at 11:20:23 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I think that it's crucial to not (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        overlook the complexity of this case OR we may just keep continuing to see cases like this. My concern is that we create strong bans on guns -- which at this point, I have absolutely no stance on one way or another since it is obvious that guns make killing random people quicker and easier -- and that if we do that, and please read this whole sentence carefully because it's very nuanced, that if we do that, we will not solve this tragedy which has afflicted our society at all. We may minimize it. But even one murder of this nature is, in my mind, too many. I think we cannot look to countries like Australia or England and say, "Well see, they have no guns, problem solved," because they also have radically different health care systems AND social attitudes toward mental illness than Americans do. They also have a different set of classifications for mental illnesses entirely.

        Some countries have very high gun ownership, higher than we do, and no mass murders. Why? I'm not advocating for gun ownership, just pointing out an odd data point that tries to suggest that correlation does not equal causation, and that we have evidence, factual evidence, of this, globally.

        There are a whole slew of factors converging in the US that are common to all of these recent mass murders in the past ten or so years. They're very easy to list. Thus I contend that we must tackle all of them, or else we may just be cutting one head off what is basically a hydra.

        Click the ♥ to join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news & views written from a black pov - everyone is welcome.

        by mahakali overdrive on Wed May 28, 2014 at 11:22:27 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I understand your point ... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mahakali overdrive

          and I don't think that removing guns from the equation will solve everything.  But at the barest minimum, it would reduce any one individual's killing capacity.  Trying to carry out a mass murder with less deadly weapons is just harder from a practical standpoint.

          Yes, there are obviously psychological factors at work, too.  Some of these go beyond the individual, in my view, and have more to do with social cohesion and community support.

          I agree we have to tackle all of these issues.  I can't say I have any confidence that we will, however.

          "Ça c'est une chanson que j'aurais vraiment aimé ne pas avoir écrite." -- Barbara

          by FogCityJohn on Wed May 28, 2014 at 04:27:28 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  I have followed this story on various (7+ / 0-)

    places to today, including Facebook and the MSNBC site.  The comment threads are so deeply shocking that I had to step away.  People commenting to the various articles are almost universally against gun regulations of any kind, but they are also stupid and cruel.  Some laughed at how hilarious this heartbroken man looked in his grief, others just took the opportunity to call everyone who thought something should be done idiots, fools, socialists, liberals, commie, morons, etc.  Aside from the ever-increasing availability of guns and the greed and lack of courage or moral fiber in so many of our "representatives" I see something else as well.  Whether from hate radio, Fox News, or internet screamers and plotters, a large segment of our population has become morally and emotionally numb.  Many people have lost their connection to other human beings.  Joe the Plumber's comment that dead children didn't trump his rights; or that of the former SC GOP head--can't recall his name--who said his son wouldn't cower in fear in such a situation but would shoot back--are so vicious and despicable that I shudder in disgust and despair.

    "It ain't right, Atticus," said Jem. "No, son, it ain't right." --Harper Lee, To Kill a Mockingbird

    by SottoVoce on Tue May 27, 2014 at 06:20:28 PM PDT

  •  Joe the Plumber has an answer... (0+ / 0-)

    "Your dead kids don't trump my constitutional rights."

    Yes, Joe the plumber is an even more horrible person than we thought.

  •  Don't Stop, Mr. Martinez (0+ / 0-)

    Please don't stop expressing your rage.  Your passion will move people to finally, really, press legislators.    

    Not.  One.  More.

  •  Guns and brain damage go together (0+ / 0-)

    The most common igniters in modern ammunition are either lead or mercury compounds which, when burned in the firing of the cartridge, release the poisonous metals into the immediate area. In outdoor ranges this would be no real problem but indoor ranges are another case. I suspect that gun hobbyists carry a brain damaging load of toxic metals in their nervous system and nothing they say can be expected to be rational.

    You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means

    by shoeguy on Wed May 28, 2014 at 04:10:44 PM PDT

  •  In my opinion anyone who votes... (0+ / 0-)

    for the NRA backed surrogates, largely Republican, Tea Party and Libertarian they are complicit in the murder of innocents.

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