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Eric Parker from central Idaho stands watch on a bridge with his weapon as protesters gather by the Bureau of Land Management's base camp, where cattle that were seized from rancher Cliven Bundy are being held, near Bunkerville, Nevada April 12, 2014
As if that puny rifle could protect this asshat from a drone strike.
Atrios has been heaping scorn at the gun nuts over at his place.
They're mad that their little hobby of showing their external death penises to the world doesn't get quite the respect that it deserves, or more importantly they're mad that they don't get quite the respect that they of course deserve and are confused that their giant external death penis waving isn't giving them that respect.
A couple of stipulations—this doesn't refer to those who live in the country and need their guns for either genuine protection or to hunt their own food. Those guys are lugging around Winchesters, Remingtons and Rugers. Not AR-15s. This doesn't refer to those who collect guns out of genuine historical interest, as opposed to "collecting" themselves their own private arsenal (no one is going around shooting up schools with flintlocks).

Nah, we're talking about those fetishists who think their guns make them macho rebel defenders of freedoms, WOLVERINES! Yeah, those assholes. The ones who have bought a record number of guns and ammo and extra-capacity magazines because a black guy was elected president. Those.

Reality is that gun ownership is on the decline.

The gun ownership rate has fallen across a broad cross section of households since the early 1970s, according to data from the General Social Survey, a public opinion survey conducted every two years that asks a sample of American adults if they have guns at home, among other questions [...]

The household gun ownership rate has fallen from an average of 50 percent in the 1970s to 49 percent in the 1980s, 43 percent in the 1990s and 35 percent in the 2000s, according to the survey data, analyzed by The New York Times.

In 2012, the share of American households with guns was 34 percent, according to survey results released on Thursday.

Yes, Americans are wising up the idiocy of packing heat in this modern day and age. Just about a third of households have a gun now, and the trend is clear. Gun owners are shrinking themselves into a fringe. A well-armed fringe, sure, but still a fringe.

And what the heck for, really? To defend against the tryanny of black Obama and black UN helicopters? This is the era of drones. If the federal government was really as tyrannical as these morons think, it would've dropped a few hellfire missiles from above, and that asshat playing "commando" on that bridge in the photo above would've gone kaboom. Nothing that external metal penis of his could've done about that.

In other words, our government packs heavier heat than anything these doofuses can ever own.

They are idiots, plain and simple. They are very useful idiots, of course. They have made Colt and Smith & Wesson very wealthy in their business of dealing death, and their trade group, the NRA, couldn't exist without them. They are hilariously idiotic, and tragically idiotic, and scarily idiotic (as our never-ending parade of massacres now proves).

But they are idiots nonetheless.

Also, this:

‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Wed May 28, 2014 at 10:30 AM PDT.

Also republished by Shut Down the NRA and Firearms Law and Policy.

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Comment Preferences

  •  It is sad when it is The Onion that speaks the (37+ / 0-)

    truth.

    Rush — the quivering rage heap who is apparently desperately trying to extinguish any remaining molecule of humanity that might still reside in the Chernobyl-esque Superfund cleanup site that was his soul. -- Jon Stewart

    by Its the Supreme Court Stupid on Wed May 28, 2014 at 10:34:30 AM PDT

  •  Spot on rant. (21+ / 0-)

    The most un-convincable man is the one whose paycheck depends on remaining unconvinced. -- H. L. Mencken

    by kharma on Wed May 28, 2014 at 10:37:54 AM PDT

    •  Agreed. (10+ / 0-)

      I have no idea why these Stupid Gun Dorks think that they, or even a large group of them, would pose any substantial impediment should the US military opt to act against them.  These arent the days of the American Revolution when the weaponry was essentially equal on both sides and the logisitcal support was easier for the revolutionaries.  They can wave their Gadsden flags all they want, but they have little hope of being anything but pink mist if the shooting were to start.

      This rant is spot on.  I do not own a gun, nor care to for the present, but I do understand how firing a projectile at a distant target can be fun; so I don't begrudge the target shooters or hunters their hobby.  But Jesus Haploid Christ, when these SGDs go all wannabe commando and think they're a match for the authorities, that's just stupid.

      You can't spell CRAZY without R-AZ.

      by rb608 on Wed May 28, 2014 at 11:03:55 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I so agree with you! (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        rb608

        I've been trying to tell these people for a long time that THEY ARE NO MATCH FOR THE WEAPONS THE GOVERNMENT HAS!

        As you point out, if our government were truly tyrannical, as so many neocons (including GOP politicians) claim, these people would be deep in some prison right now being waterboarded.  

        What on earth is wrong with these people's brains?  (If they have any.)

  •  Anti-GMOs, Bundy Ranch, OKC Bombing Truthers (9+ / 0-)

    I notice a lot of folks here citing NaturalNews.com as a source of the anti-GMO stories.

    Here's a NaturalNews reporter giving lots of love to the Bundy Militia

    And he is an OKC Truther
    http://thegoldenagedaily.wordpress.com/...

    (NaturalNews) In the tragic aftermath of the Aurora, Colorado shooting which has all the earmarks of a staged “false flag” event, a follow-up false flag now appears imminent.....It is now well established that the Oklahoma City bombing was conducted for much the same purpose, as it explained in the outstanding documentary “A Noble Lie”

    Men are so necessarily mad, that not to be mad would amount to another form of madness. -Pascal

    by bernardpliers on Wed May 28, 2014 at 10:38:02 AM PDT

  •  If their guns are protecting our freedom (27+ / 0-)

    then how come I have a lot less freedom today than I had a few decades ago?

    "The oppressors most powerful weapon is the mind of the oppressed." - Stephen Biko

    by gjohnsit on Wed May 28, 2014 at 10:38:25 AM PDT

  •  Hmm. Sounds familiar. (21+ / 0-)

    Who else recently got mad that he wasn't getting quite the respect that he deserves and ultimately resorted to external death penis waving to get it?

    But I'm sure the rest of them will refrain from killing people.

    Until they don't.

  •  Meanwhile another toddler shoots and kills (19+ / 0-)

    baby brother and the state yawns. I think Atrios is onto something: shaming has had little to no effect so it's time for some serious mocking of these gun fetishists. Although probably not safe to do in person!

    Just another faggity fag socialist fuckstick homosinner!

    by Ian S on Wed May 28, 2014 at 10:41:00 AM PDT

  •  Gun fairy tales abound. (15+ / 0-)

    A gun is a 360 degree, 24/7 self defense tool best loaded and stored loosely.

    A gun is a happy friend to take for a happy meal.

    A gun in the wilderness decides public land use issues.

    A gun shouldn't be in the hands of the mentally ill, but never mind NRA Ted Nugent and Kessler

    •  The mentally ill point. (6+ / 0-)

      Very few people are born mentally ill.
      When people do become mentally ill, like physical ailments, it may be temporary.
      Like other physical ailments, it may not be temporary.
      There usually aren't signs that someone will become mentally ill.
      Many mentally ill people who have guns were not mentally ill when they got them.
      Mental illness can happen to anyone.
      A.n.y.o.n.e.
      NE1.

      Yes, we should definitely beef up, improve and implement measures to help mentally ill Americans.
      Yes, that's a piss poor method of gun control. (see the 5th sentence above.)

      Many bad guys with guns did not start out as bad guys with guns. They were good guys. Or at least regular people. As many guns used in crimes, especially the rampage type, were legally, privately owned guns as illegally obtained guns.
      Unreported gun theft is a problem that needs to have greater punishment- punishment commensurate with the responsibility innate to owning a gun.

      Fear is never a good reason to buy a gun.

      Lead with love. Forgive as a reflex.

      by Gentle Giant on Wed May 28, 2014 at 11:17:04 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  A number of our legislators from Arizona, as well (17+ / 0-)

    as Congressman Paul Gosar, visited the Bundy ranch when the old coot was on Fox several times a day, to get their pictures taken with him. Then they returned to the Capitol in Phoenix to blather about freedum or something in front of the cameras. Since Bundy told us what he knows about the Negro, we haven't seen them defending this turd. If I were running against one of them this election, I'd drag out those photos they were originally so proud of. I'm sure you could make a handy Venn diagram where these nuts, the men's rights dipshits, and bigots all meet.

    stay together / learn the flowers / go light - Gary Snyder

    by Mother Mags on Wed May 28, 2014 at 10:41:26 AM PDT

  •  decline in ownership (33+ / 0-)

    I know from my family in Texas that when someone shows signs of Alzheimer's, the FIRST thing done is to get rid of the guns. Now, this is common in my family, sadly, so I have seen it often. I suspect this is contributing to the decrease in ownership - the people of that hunting generation are dying off,slowly.

    While I grew up in the standard 'gun culture' of locked-in-a-case hunting rifles, this wildly irresponsible fetish for open carry just disgusts me. I have to make a point to ask anyone into whose home my teen son goes, if they have guns and are they properly stored - something that did not seem needed in my childhood.

    The words of House Republican: We do not care.

    by Chun Yang on Wed May 28, 2014 at 10:41:56 AM PDT

  •  Good to see you take a stand on this (14+ / 0-)

    I know you have in the past, but a refresher helps. Some of the very type of people you talk about are right here on your blog; people who disagreed with Scalia's opinion in Heller that there are limits to the Second Amendment to include restrictions on open carry and CCW. They don't agree with that.

    Imagine, Kossacks to the right of Scalia.

    KOS: "Mocking partisans focusing on elections? Even less reason to be on Daily Kos."

    by fcvaguy on Wed May 28, 2014 at 10:42:08 AM PDT

  •  They good for hunting, and some protection (4+ / 0-)

    Protection from wild animals, mostly.

    And no, black people do NOT fall under that umbrella.

    But really, if you yell at someone to get off your property or you'll call the police, most humans will back off.

    If you yell at a wolf or a bear to get off your property or you'll call the police, they'll just think, "I hear dinner..."

    "People should not be afraid of their government; governments should be afraid of their people." --V

    by MikeTheLiberal on Wed May 28, 2014 at 10:42:11 AM PDT

    •  A reasonable point, although (7+ / 0-)

      the reality is that neither wolves nor bears are particularly prone to dine on humans.  

      Mountain lions, on the other hand, do see us as normal prey ... but since they prefer a surprise attack on a solitary victim, gunfire might never get a chance to come into play.

      "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

      by lgmcp on Wed May 28, 2014 at 10:57:20 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I live around lions and have for decades. Attacks (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        lgmcp, MikeTheLiberal

        are statisically rare. I hike alone most of the time and frankly, I just don't worry about it. I'm a LOT more worried about humans.

        The only hawk I like is the kind that has feathers. My birding blog: http://thisskysings.wordpress.com/

        by cany on Wed May 28, 2014 at 12:48:35 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Agree it is rare (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          cany

          that a mountain lion will stalk humans, and of course the lions themselves are increasingly rare.

          But it did give me a certain frisson when I saw a safety poster on possible lion encounters displayed at the foot of the Aguirre Spring trail in the (newly monumented!) Organ Peaks.   The instruction "Try to appear larger than you are"  has become a catchphrase in my family ever since.

          "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

          by lgmcp on Thu May 29, 2014 at 10:10:09 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  No. Actually, they (the wolf or bear) won't. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      flevitan, MikeTheLiberal

      Thinking something doesn't make it true.

      The most curious thing to me is how humans enemize.

      Vote rape. Vote torture. Vote War Crimes. Vote with the American top 1%.

      by Yellow Canary on Wed May 28, 2014 at 11:16:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Europe seems to do quite well (13+ / 0-)

    with no guns.

    "Onward through the fog!" - Oat Willie

    by rocksout on Wed May 28, 2014 at 10:42:42 AM PDT

  •  it's also demographics (10+ / 0-)

    younger people and the two largest immigrant demographics are even less likely to own guns. much less likely. and then if you include all the people throughout the rest of the developed world, suddenly the gun fetishists become a tiny and diminishing percentage of the developed world's population. another demographic dead end.

    The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

    by Laurence Lewis on Wed May 28, 2014 at 10:43:51 AM PDT

  •  Oh, by the way.... (23+ / 0-)

    What could possibly go wrong with a dozen or more of these guys playing their cosplay games in a Chipotle near you?

    Among other things, this:

    EDGEWATER, Fla. —Edgewater police officers can no longer wear key chains on their police belts after an officer's AR 15 rifle fired because the trigger got caught on the key chain.
    Good thing the kinds of guys who tend to lug their AR-15s with them into fast food restaurants to make a point wouldn't also be the kinds of guys who maybe wear giant keychains (or wallet chains) that hang from their belts or pockets or whatever.

    But when it comes to responsible gun owning, it's the thought that counts.

  •  -eye roll- (5+ / 0-)
    external death penises
    Do we really have to use such childish language regarding guns and their owners?

     Why are guns the only topic that we do this about? I see similar terms like "gunhumper", "gun fetishist", etc. any time this topic comes up.

    This nonsense just diminishes the impact of otherwise very valid points. We are better than this.

    •  Because there really are guys who use them (27+ / 0-)

      as "male enhancement". Hell, the freaking gun industry actually uses that theme in their ads. I think the maker of the AR-15 actually boasts that "Getting one renews your 'man card'"

      GOP 2014 strategy -- Hire clowns, elephants, and a ringmaster and say "a media circus" has emerged and blame Democrats for lack of progress. Have pundits agree that "both sides are to blame" and hope the public will stay home on election day.

      by ontheleftcoast on Wed May 28, 2014 at 10:49:11 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Which "maker"? (0+ / 0-)

        Colt?
        Bushmaster?
        ArmaLite?
        Rock River?
        Stag?
        Panther?
        H&K?
        Sig?

        Too many to count.

        •  The ads I remember were from Bushmaster (5+ / 0-)

          Who actually will issue you a card that says,

          "The bearer of this card has avoid complete humiliation. Today he is a Man. Fully entitled to all the rights and privileges duly afforded. To leave the seat up. To belch without apologizing. The way is before you www.bushmaster.com"

          Yeah, because it takes an AR-15 and belching to avoid humiliation and make you a Man.

          GOP 2014 strategy -- Hire clowns, elephants, and a ringmaster and say "a media circus" has emerged and blame Democrats for lack of progress. Have pundits agree that "both sides are to blame" and hope the public will stay home on election day.

          by ontheleftcoast on Wed May 28, 2014 at 11:53:21 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Disagree. (12+ / 0-)

      I think ridicule is appropriate.  It indicates a complete lack of fear, and is an accepted form of group behavior that, in the case of dealing with childish behavior, is far more effective than reasoning.

      But your point is mis-stated.  The ridicule is not directed at guns and their owners.  The ridicule is directed at the immature gun owners who think it is appropriate to carry assault weapons into lunch joints, or think it appropriate to join an armed insurrection against our government.

      A gun is not always an external death penis.  An assault rifle carried by a guy in shorts at Chili's is an external death penis, and should be mocked by every dinner, employee, and mall-goers.

      Vote rape. Vote torture. Vote War Crimes. Vote with the American top 1%.

      by Yellow Canary on Wed May 28, 2014 at 10:59:08 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I kinda agree with you to a point, (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Tominator

        but when there are 150-300 million guns already in circulation, and still a full 1/3rd of American households contains a gun, we need to acknowledge that people like the idiots that brought rifles into Chipotle are still just a tiny minority of gun owners.

        We are turning off the very same people that we need to win over if we truly want to realize new gun control laws.

        Whether we like to admit it or not, most people that own guns are reasonable people that would hear our side of the argument if we didn't poison the discourse with schoolyard taunts and insults.

         We are the adults in this conversation and we should act like it.

        •  A-25 on the Gun Aficionado Jukebox™ (4+ / 0-)

          We are turning off the very same people that we need to win over if we truly want to realize new gun control laws.

          AKA "Gun control loses Democrats elections"...

          First of all, we're NEVER going to win over a large segment of that group solely by "lightening up" about guns... we'd also have to "lighten up" on abortion, same sex marriage, income inequality"... what other core principles of the Democratic platform should we abandon in hopes of skimming a few votes from the opposition?

          This notion that there's a huge motherlode of voters just dying to support Democrats if only we'd lighten up on guns (or speak in reverential tones about assholes waving their guns in everyones faces) is total bullshit... sorry...

          The "discourse" has been poisoned beyond recognition by the Gun Aficionados and ridicule is all they deserve...

          Baby, where I come from...

          by ThatSinger on Wed May 28, 2014 at 11:30:46 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Nah. Keep on ridiculing them. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          flevitan, ThatSinger

          It seems to bother some gun owners to have guns referred to as 'external death penises', therefore calling them 'external death penises' does have some influence on lowering the number of households with guns.

          I say, if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the group who needs "external death penises".

          Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed: everything else is public relations. - George Orwell

          by Wayward Son on Wed May 28, 2014 at 11:39:35 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  We could go round and round on this ... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          flevitan

          ... but I do have a question.  Why have we not heard loud derision of these armed lunchers from the majority of gun owners?

          O ... let's dance anyway.  Maybe I'll learn something.  What is "reasonable" (your word) about owning a gun in any urban or suburban neighborhood anywhere in the world?  I'm pretty sure the actuarial evidence indicates that owning a gun is, provably, unreasonable, unless your goal is either to die, have one of your family members die, or kill someone by mistake.  I think each of those is unreasonable.  What do you think?

          Vote rape. Vote torture. Vote War Crimes. Vote with the American top 1%.

          by Yellow Canary on Wed May 28, 2014 at 11:39:51 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I support repeal of the 2nd amendment (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Tominator

            I don't think that there is any reasonable justification for anyone to own any gun. Just for the record.

            I'm speaking strategically here, and we aren't getting any closer to realizing gun control by throwing around incredibly childish (and bizarrely sexual) insults.

          •  OK (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Yellow Canary, ChuckChuckerson

            But I don't live in an urban area, although it could be considered sub-urban since I am about 5 miles our from a small town in the Southeast. I own guns. I have some that are no longer made by their manufacturers and whose monetary value exceeds the price I paid for them. I guess that makes me a "collector". I have shot guns since I was 5-years-old and have done so competitively in the past. I take my daughter hunting with me---she likes unprocessed, non-anti-biotic-laden game.

            And I think that these SGDs are exactly that. No one should openly carry and AR-15 rifle in public at any time. In my opinion, I don't think openly carrying a sidearm in public is excusable either. I am not an NRA member either. They are incapable of clear-thinking about gun laws and policies.

            But none of that second paragraph matters to most here, because most here equate gun ownership with what these nutcases are doing at the ranch, in the restaurants, in the theaters, at schools, etc etc etc.

            •  Than how about this (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              ThatSinger, Yellow Canary, allensl

              Rather than spending time being sad about left-wing criticisms about guns owners...how about writing about and agitating for the banning of assault rifles and large clips.

              That is, be a model gun owner working for sensible gun control.  We need sensible gun owners to take back the gun debate.  If you do so, then perhaps non-gun owners will stop tarring every gun owner with the same brush.

              Until there is a loud, powerful sensible gun lobby by gun owners themselves, expect to be lumped in with the wackos.

              "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

              by Empty Vessel on Wed May 28, 2014 at 12:05:38 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Well (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                ChuckChuckerson

                "If you do so, then perhaps non-gun owners will stop tarring every gun owner with the same brush." Won't happen. Not here at least.

                "...expect to be lumped in with the wackos." I fully expect that here. My expectations get lower and lower all the time.

                "...how about writing about and agitating for the banning of assault rifles and large clips." I have done that, except for the "agitating", since it is usually received as demeaning and turns off otherwise reasonable people to the debate. More sensible, grown up language tends to go further than the "agitating" going on here. Now where have I heard that before...?

                •  I don't care about your feelings. At all. (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  CatFelyne, allensl, ThatSinger

                  If you choose to be a gun owner, you take responsabitlity for your ownership.  If people say bad things about you, suck it up and stop whining. There are a shitload of freaks who own guns and advocate for insane laws in support of them.  Stand up against them, stand up loudly.  It's not just the right thing to do, it's the minimum that a responsble gun owner should do.

                  As for agitating, that's all that the NRA does, and it works.  When was the last time polite quiet people got anything done?  If you want people to stop shitting on all gun owners, the majority must start AGITIATING against the freako minority.  Otherwise, take you lumps and stop whining.

                  You are choosing to own and advocate for weapons that can potentially kill people...that places a burden on you both personally and politically.

                  "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

                  by Empty Vessel on Wed May 28, 2014 at 12:40:40 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Whining? (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    ChuckChuckerson

                    Jeebus, Mr/Ms Vessel (I don't know your gender, nor do I care much), how has your agitating like the NRA does worked out for you so far? I will not stoop to NRA tactics, thank you.  A calmer, more grown up way will go much further, but admittedly not as fast or as far as you would like. Too bad. But any progress is still progress.

                    And damn right, I "choose...to own...weapons that can potentially kill people" and I take it very seriously. The point Kos makes, to me, is that these dolts in the desert do NOT take that responsibility seriously, a point with which I wholeheartedly agree. Your opinion notwithstanding.

                    •  But neither you nor Chuck are lecturing Kos... (0+ / 0-)

                      save for ONE comment by Chuck...

                      You're both standing here taking potshots at everyone else but neither of you apparently have the balls (oops, another genitalia reference) to directly address HIM with your "concerns"...

                      We all know why... it rhymes with "poultry manure"...

                      Baby, where I come from...

                      by ThatSinger on Wed May 28, 2014 at 01:40:06 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Kos (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        ChuckChuckerson

                        is not rambling on and on and on and on and on, repeating and repeating and repeating and repeating one snippet of text he used for emphasis and to good effect. You are just spewing the same old same old like a guy with only one joke under his belt.

                        And you knew that already? Wow, I guess I'm impressed now.

                        •  Ummm... Kos wrote a diary... (0+ / 0-)

                          I merely commented in the diary, then Chuck took it upon himself to lecture me personally... not really sure why you involved yourself, other than to cluck in agreement to Chuck's pearl clutch...

                          I said my piece in response to Chuck's initial post... "moderate" gun owners have already long since come over to the side of reasonable gun regulations... we're not "losing" anyone by mocking the dickless wonders of the Cliven Bundy Brigade and the Chipolte Chickenshits...

                          Do you honestly think any of that contingent is "teetering" between the NRA and us? Even one of them?

                          No, I don't think so... I think you're personally offended as a gunowner... that's what I think...

                          Baby, where I come from...

                          by ThatSinger on Wed May 28, 2014 at 02:31:45 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  And what you think is what counts. (0+ / 0-)
                          •  I got blamed by a guy who joined the NRA (0+ / 0-)

                            just last week. And he's very hard core, the leader of a group of internet pro-gunners.

                            But ThatSinger, you're still correct, IMO. There was a match there, but he had been classy enough to hesitate joining. He wasn't near any epiphany or compromise.

                            I pull no punches with some--gun bullies--because "kinder and gentler" is just what they want to shove around. They have shown that the needed gun changes must be imposed by others.

                            A year ago my buddy had said the NRA was a "poisoned chalice." Meanwhile, he was effectively spreading that same poison, so he might as well drink from the cup. Yep, it's a good match. But I did not create the chemistry for that match. He's gotta be embarrassed.

                            Would I use softer words? No way. He wants to believe the NRA narrative, JJustin's Big Lie. What it is.

                            _______________________________________________________________________________________ It seems to me that we humans take turns being dummies.

                            by reasonablegunsplz on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 12:43:26 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                •  "Otherwise reasonable" people have already... (0+ / 0-)

                  joined our side... the ones for whom dozens of mass slaughters haven't budged? Fuck 'em... they're not coming... we could make sandwiches and buy a keg of beer and tell them to come hang out and bring their guns because they're awesome, they're not budging...

                  The notion that just talking to them more nicely is all it'll take is preposterous...

                  Sorry...

                  Baby, where I come from...

                  by ThatSinger on Wed May 28, 2014 at 01:36:17 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

            •  Excellent reply. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              lgmcp

              I'd like to restrict my question above to "handguns and assault rifles", or whatever excludes guns that are old or used for killing wild animals for consumption.

              I'd even exclude guns for target shooting if I knew enough details about guns to create a set of guns that are not designed for and used for:
               . killing wild animals for food
               . competitive target shooting
               . collecting/historical purposes.

              I don't know, but since your second paragraph does matter to me, I think it likely matters to many here.  I think we are a reasonable bunch.  I appreciate the distinctions you have made.

              Vote rape. Vote torture. Vote War Crimes. Vote with the American top 1%.

              by Yellow Canary on Wed May 28, 2014 at 12:34:29 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I appreciate that (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Yellow Canary

                Handguns: they have their place, especially in rural settings like mine. I have also shot those competitively, but nowadays I want one for my family's protection first, then my own protection. My wife is only 5 feet tall and 90 lbs soaking wet, and she will not shoot a shotgun in self defense, I don't think. She has a Taurus 45/410, a pistol that shoots .45 Colt and .410 shells interchangeably, so it's much more practical for her.

                Open carry of handguns is legal in my state, but hardly anyone does it, and certainly not like the nuts in Texas recently did. As long as it stays in the holster, it's legal. But why do it? Brandishing handguns in public is stupid and illegal here, as it should be. I also have a CCW for when we travel by car in and out of state because we tend to avoid interstates as a general safety rule. (Think: Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi...) I usually carry a small caliber single action handgun when I squirrel and rabbit hunt. It's for quickly dispatching a wounded animal, not for penile enhancement or western movie fantasies.

                "Assault rifles": No need for them or their owners. They are the latest craze of gun that is barely affordable by those who purchase them, by and large. They buy them or convert them to .22 from .556, and it has caused a massive .22LR ammo shortage. No plinking much any more. I've seen AR-15s at the range but I have not seen nor heard of anyone around here hunting with them. They jam too easily for that. Not that there aren't hunters with them here, probably, but I haven't met them. Most prefer traditional bolt action or semi-auto rifles for game hunting.

                I would like to be as optimistic about the reasonableness of most here. One doesn't have to dig too deep in a gun thread, however, to see the vitriol and disrespect for gun owners. Perhaps we as a group and a society will see a change in the future and more grown up, progressive dialogue will be sustained. Thanks for the exchange.

        •  Good luck, Chuck (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ChuckChuckerson

          Convincing the usual sophomoric anti-gunners here. I think that most kossacks in FLAP are reasonable people, too, and they are well-informed. Others here simply are not.

          Sagan said it best: "You can't convince a believer of anything for their belief is not based on evidence but a deep-seated need to believe."

    •  John Hinckley (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      88kathy, Yellow Canary, lgmcp, flevitan
      Guns are Fun!
      See that living legend over there?
      With one little squeeze of this trigger
      I can put that person at my feet
      moaning and groaning and pleading with God.

      This gun gives me pornographic power.
      If I wish, the president will fall
      and the world will look at me in disbelief,
      all because I own an inexpensive gun.

      Guns are lovable, Guns are fun
      Are you lucky enough to own one?

      Almost everything you do will seem insignificant, but it is most important that you do it.

      by The Termite on Wed May 28, 2014 at 11:01:06 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  As well... (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        nellgwen, 88kathy, ThatSinger

        ...if you don't think that Elliot Rodger's guns were proxy penises the other day...

        Almost everything you do will seem insignificant, but it is most important that you do it.

        by The Termite on Wed May 28, 2014 at 11:02:21 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I hate being on "this side" of the argument, (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Gentle Giant, Tominator, KingBolete

        but do you really think that John Hinckley is representative of the average American gun owner? 1/3rd of American households contain a John Hinckley type of character?

        •  If you hate being on "this side" (3+ / 0-)

          Of the argument, there is a solution to that problem, Y'know.

          "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

          by Empty Vessel on Wed May 28, 2014 at 11:25:19 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  No (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          lgmcp, flevitan, ThatSinger

          Nor did I suggest that all gun owners are acting out in a phallic or Freudian fashion. People hunt, and people keep guns for protection. I get it; we shouldn't paint with the broadest imaginable brush here. Fair.

          But to pretend that there are not some male gun owners whose identity as males are not thickly entwined with guns would be equally silly.

          I've shot lots and lots of guns. It is a glandular experience. It releases chemicals in the body. This isn't hokum. It happens. All sorts of associations are made. Taking things apart from a great distance with a "projectile." "Shooting from the hip." Come on, don't be obtuse here.

          Almost everything you do will seem insignificant, but it is most important that you do it.

          by The Termite on Wed May 28, 2014 at 11:32:22 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  SOME is the key word. (0+ / 0-)

            SOME gun owners are creepy weirdos. Most are reasonable people that aren't that much different than you or I.

            We need to win them over if we want new gun control laws, and telling them that they are compensating for their small penises isn't going to help accomplish this.

            •  I agree (0+ / 0-)

              I'm not suggesting that's an endearing opening line.

              But I also think that anybody who has a fetish they don't understand or won't acknowledge is not likely to be a good faith negotiator.

              I don't see anybody on the gun rights side of things who is actively willing to engage. And I don't think it's because we called them names on Daily Kos.

              Almost everything you do will seem insignificant, but it is most important that you do it.

              by The Termite on Wed May 28, 2014 at 02:42:35 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I engage with thoughtful, decent people (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                reasonablegunsplz

                that happen to own guns on a daily basis.

                 My father-in-law is probably the most frequent "gun person" that I talk with regularly and I assure you that he does not have a fetish regarding guns despite owning several, including an assault rifle.

                 I saw him shed tears after Newtown. He was wounded in Vietnam and marched against the war when he got home. He's protested the Iraq and Afghanistan wars in person far more frequently than myself or anyone I know. He's liberal on almost any topic other than guns.  He's a good man with a different way of seeing things, and there are a LOT more people like him in this country than there are creeps like the Bundy Ranch thugs.

                We can win this debate because we are on the right side, we just have to make the argument the right way. That starts with respect and maturity.

                •  So how would you engage your FIL on... (0+ / 0-)

                  ...this topic if you were trying to persuade him that we need dialogue and compromise on gun control?

                  What would work with him, do you think?

                  Not a trap question. A sincere one.

                  Almost everything you do will seem insignificant, but it is most important that you do it.

                  by The Termite on Wed May 28, 2014 at 03:16:27 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I pretty much have (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Minnesota Deb

                    persuaded him on several aspects of gun control. For instance, he'd be OK with magazine capacity restrictions; it was actually kind of easy to convince him that this would reduce the potential negative consequences of the worst violent crimes like Newtown.  He's always been in favor of universal background checks.  We live in Florida, and he thinks "stand your ground" needs to be changed to only apply to armed attackers.  I'm still working on him on that one.  He was as appalled by the Trayvon Martin murder as any of us though.  

                    And not just my FIL; I am the "liberal guy" at my job and  the majority of my coworkers own multiple guns. We touch on the topic frequently, and I am saying with all honesty that almost every single one of these people has a good heart and can be reasoned with.

                     But like my FIL, if you start the gun control discussion with some insult (especially the lame "penis compensating" one) you are going to get aggressively rejected. That's why I oppose just throwing these negative connotations out there; someone that could be convinced is going to read "external death penis" and just get a little farther away from coming around to our way of seeing this topic.

                    We are on the right side of this issue, so unless someone is totally stubborn and full of cognitive dissonance you can make them see reason if given enough time. Most people are decent no matter what their position is on guns. It's too easy to "other-ise" them when we would get so much more traction engaging them with sincerity and good intentions.

                    •  Great comment (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      ChuckChuckerson

                      Thank you for being so thoughtful.

                      I wrote a diary this morning on empathy. I think when you put real people together in a room -- away from pols and operatives -- they can find things to agree on. They tend to speak to each other with respect, and listen more, and leave with understanding. When you introduce pols with agendas, it all turns to shit. Our discourse is in desperate need of an overhaul.

                      Almost everything you do will seem insignificant, but it is most important that you do it.

                      by The Termite on Wed May 28, 2014 at 03:55:23 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

    •  Acknowledging the playground flavor, and yet (7+ / 0-)

      the associaton between death and sex, between aggression and sexual excitement, between sexual potency and social power ... is a very deeply ingrained one, and somewhat inescapeable.  

      Why are guns the only topic we do this about?  Because guns are the only objects I know of that seem to compel the kind of passionate self-regard that our genitals do.  

      "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

      by lgmcp on Wed May 28, 2014 at 11:02:54 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Why yes, yes we do (7+ / 0-)

      At least until people stop carrying around external death penises.

      "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

      by Empty Vessel on Wed May 28, 2014 at 11:04:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Why? The gun nuts are not engaging in honest (9+ / 0-)

      debate.  They have pulled every dishonest stunt in the playbook from cherry picking of facts to outright lying to stalking supporters of sane gun laws.  They aren't interested in achieving a consensus on any issue -- even baby step gun regulations that are supported by 90% of the populace.  So they deserve to be ridiculed and reminded that they are a tiny fringe of a shrinking minority of gun owners.  The sooner they are made politically irrelevant, the better off we are as a country.  And if it takes constitutionally protected speech such as open ridicule to do it, then so be it.

      •  You are ridiculing a small percentage of (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Tominator

        gun owners (in a VERY childish way) and at the same time I think you are turning off the reasonable, moderate gun owners and making it much less likely that they would take your opinion seriously.

        We need to win over the reasonable gun owners if we want to enact new gun control legislation. Most people are reasonable, and a certain percentage of them puts in virtual earplugs as soon as you start implying things about their genitals.

    •  Gun aficionado "concern" noted... (6+ / 0-)

      hey man, it's not like Kos or any of the rest of us rolled out of bed with that attitude...

      NEWSFLASH... we're sick of this bullshit...

      Rather than lecturing us about our verbiage, how about lecturing your fellow gun aficionados about their fucking actions? Start with those assholes lugging their external death penises AR15's into fast food joints and aiming them at federal officers doing their duty then work your way up to Wayne LaPierre...

      Baby, where I come from...

      by ThatSinger on Wed May 28, 2014 at 11:22:54 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I don't own a gun. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Tominator, KingBolete, Neo Control

        In fact, I think that the second amendment should be repealed.

        How about you grow the fuck up if you want adults to take your political positions seriously?

        •  How about you stick your wagging finger elsewhere? (4+ / 0-)

          I have a few suggestions...

          Again, the notion that there are people out there who'd be willing to support sensible gun legislation if only we'd drop the "external death penis" insults is preposterous...

          Weekly mass slaughters haven't brought them around to our side, but just being a little more respectful of their bullshit, childish, dickless behaviour will?

          Give me a fucking break...

          Baby, where I come from...

          by ThatSinger on Wed May 28, 2014 at 11:34:24 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Do you want to enact new gun control or not? (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Tominator, Neo Control

            Is this about getting all whipped up in a righteous lather and really sticking it to those teabaggers with your super-cool insults,  or do you actually want to save lives?

            We have to win over moderate gun owners to enact gun control, or it would have happened after Newtown. You aren't helping this by acting like a child.

             Either shut up and let the adults handle this or grow the fuck up.

            •  Bullshit… (3+ / 0-)
              We have to win over moderate gun owners to enact gun control, or it would've happened after Newtown
              "Moderate" gun owners? Newtown didn't bring them around so we need to start speaking nicer to them?

              What a laughably simplistic, naïve point of view…

              That you've designated yourself the "grown-up" is laughable in and of itself… That you presume to lecture me about anything is an insult to my intelligence…

              I believe you know what you can do with your finger and your lecture…

              No, I will not shut up… I suggest if you're telling me to shut up, you should also tell Kos to shut up… Of course it is his fucking blog…

              Baby, where I come from...

              by ThatSinger on Wed May 28, 2014 at 12:07:23 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  You don't have to speak nicely to anyone (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Tominator

                but you should attempt to control yourself a little bit and present yourself as a reasonable, mature adult if you want to be taken seriously.  That means that you shouldn't talk about other people's penises in most contexts.

                And there isn't anything I could say that would call your intelligence into question more than the content of your own posts.

                 For you this issue may only be about making sick burns to gun owners, but some of us actually want to see gun control realized in our lifetimes.

                •  Are you speaking to me or Kos? (0+ / 0-)

                  Because last I checked, this was HIS fucking diary... as a matter of fact, I haven't personally used any of those terms you're finding so pearl-clutchingly offensive...

                  HE DID...

                  Again, you seem to believe the insults are why (despite UCSB, Newtown, Aurora, VA Tech, etc) "moderate" gun owners haven't "come around" to sensible gun regulations...

                  Here's a fucking clue... the truly "moderate" gun owners have already come around and they're just as fucking disgusted with the childish, reckless behaviour of their gun owning peers as we are...

                  Concern trolling over insults on a blog is not really a very effective way to enact gun control either, champ...

                  Give it a fucking rest or address Markos directly...

                  Baby, where I come from...

                  by ThatSinger on Wed May 28, 2014 at 01:21:15 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  He's talking to you, obviously n/t (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    ChuckChuckerson
                    •  Shouldn't he be addressing the diarist with (0+ / 0-)

                      his insults and finger wagging then? I mean, the diarist is the one who actually used the words that have given him the Stage 4 Vapours, not me...

                      Come on, Chuck... let that Kos guy have it with both barrels (pun intended)... he's fucking up gun control for all of us...

                      Not the intractable NRA/RKBA absolutists... it's us liberals who aren't asking nicely enough, right?

                      lol...

                      Baby, where I come from...

                      by ThatSinger on Wed May 28, 2014 at 01:30:38 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  From a comment above (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        ChuckChuckerson

                        Guess you didn't see my answer to this repeated question of yours. So here goes here:

                        Kos...

                        is not rambling on and on and on and on and on, repeating and repeating and repeating and repeating one snippet of text he used for emphasis and to good effect. You are just spewing the same old same old like a guy with only one joke under his belt.

                        And you knew that already? Wow, I guess I'm impressed now.

                        by Tominator on Wed May 28, 2014 at 02:02:33 PM PDT

            •  It wasn't moderate gun owners' hurt feelings (7+ / 0-)

              that stopped reform after Newtown-- it was chickenshit legislators who were too afraid of the NRA's bullshit "grades." If 90% of the population is in favor of reform, it'd be my bet that the moderate gun owners are already there. Where are the reforms????

        •  Interesting... (0+ / 0-)

          How exactly do you propose to appeal to "moderate" gun owners with this?

          I think that the second amendment should be repealed.
          "I seek to take your guns but I won't make it gun/penis jokes at your expense?"

          lol...

          Good luck w/that...

          Baby, where I come from...

          by ThatSinger on Wed May 28, 2014 at 07:07:30 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  I use the same terminology for (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      flevitan

      urban guys driving giant SUVs, especially HumVees.

      Lead with love. Forgive as a reflex.

      by Gentle Giant on Wed May 28, 2014 at 11:27:44 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Did you see the video from yesterday (0+ / 0-)

      Most of those guys had "do laps".  their stomachs done lapped over their penises making them too small to use effectively.

      Therefore, they have to have their large rifles hanging over their shoulders to make sure the women folk and everyone else still knows they have dicks.  Because their real ones are too small to see anymore.

    •  Bumper sticker politics (0+ / 0-)

      It's not a new thing. I read these type of posts and shrug pretty much like the counterparts of only criminals will have guns, etc.
      I wish I had better words and more convincing arguments, but I don't.
      I will say as a young man I hung out in some pretty ugly places, rowdy bars, dope houses and so on and never carried a gun. I'm still alive.
      My grandfather was as rowdy a character as they come, a WWI veteran and would till his dying days of a stroke in his 70s pick fights in the rowdyest (sp) bar in town. His weapon of choice was his linesman pliers. Like my grandfather I took a few beatings for my mouth, but never shot anyone over it.
      I hate to break the news folks, but a punch in the nose isn't really justification to shoot someone, but I'd be hard pressed to find many people now who agree with me.

      Jesus only performs miracles for people with enough time on their hands to make that crap up.

      by KneecapBuster on Wed May 28, 2014 at 12:35:57 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  My neice, much to my sister's chagrin, (14+ / 0-)

    walked passed a bunch of idiots in the park  with guns (several of whom she knew from high school) and quipped "it'd be much cheaper for you boys to buy one of those email penis pumps". When one squared up to her she just laughed at him. Don't know if she should really be doing that but I do like to see them ridiculed in person.

  •  A great term for these nuts : AMMOSEXUALS (16+ / 0-)

    I wish I knew who coined it. It works on so many levels.

  •  penis envy? are there any studies on whether (3+ / 0-)

    large size gun ownership by males correlates to smaller than average penis size?

  •  HAPPINESS IS A WARM 105MM HOWITZER KOS!! (3+ / 0-)
  •  They're also stupid. (20+ / 0-)

    Stupid enough to think that walking into a restaurant openly carrying an assault rifle will actually get people on their side, rather than scaring the crap out of them and making the people think "these guys should not be allowed to have a sharpened number 2 pencil, much less an AR-15."

    29, white male, TX-07 (current), TN-09 (born), TN-08 (where parents live now)

    by TDDVandy on Wed May 28, 2014 at 10:45:17 AM PDT

  •  It sometimes seems like ridicule (13+ / 0-)

    is all we have left to combat these clowns.

    Those idiot open-carry fools down in Texas?  Well, people in restaurants don't seem to like them very much:

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/...

    Anyone who feels the need to own assault weapon in this country is a stunted, insecure, pitiful man-child who lives in a world of fantasy because he's too much of a loser to deal with reality.

    “If the misery of the poor be caused not by the laws of nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin.” Charles Darwin

    by ivorybill on Wed May 28, 2014 at 10:46:45 AM PDT

  •  Saw "Captain Phillips" last night (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    nellgwen, Gentle Giant, Yonit

    Best scene was the start the kidnappers got when that Navy ship blasted them while cruising by.  Navy captain should have said, "Lay down your weapons and come out.  This is all over.  You can give up and live out the rest of your life, or die here and now.  There is no other option."

    There's a message there for all those "militia" types.

    Even Democrats can be asses. Look at Rahm Emanuel.

    by Helpless on Wed May 28, 2014 at 10:47:22 AM PDT

  •  I guess the only solution is to ... (4+ / 0-)

    find a way to make gun deaths less violent, since there is no way to prevent this.

    tens of millions of individuals who reside in a nation where over half of the world’s deadliest mass shootings have occurred in the past 50 years and whose citizens are 20 times more likely to die of gun violence than those of other developed nations.


    I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cow bell!

    by glb3 on Wed May 28, 2014 at 10:49:05 AM PDT

  •  Avenge of the Nerds (6+ / 0-)

    Bingo Card Cowbell

    NERDS
    I often use the term nerd even when "geek" is probably the more precise one, because I think geeks have to some degree retaken the term, while nerd includes the implicit insult which is required. If geeks run the world and geekstuff is cool, then the term no longer has much derision attached to it.

    But, anyway, dudes who show up to fast food restaurants open carrying automatic weapons (yes, gun nerds, they probably weren't technically automatic weapons or maybe they were but I don't care because big scary gun that can fire multiple rounds quickly is automatic enough for me, so stop being such a damn nerd about it) are nerds.

    Warning - some snark may be above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 "If we appear to seek the unattainable, then let it be known that we do so to avoid the unimaginable." (@eState4Column5)

    by annieli on Wed May 28, 2014 at 10:49:12 AM PDT

  •  If their fevered dreams had any reality, (0+ / 0-)

    they'd have been installed at Guantanamo about 5 years ago.

  •  Not sure that 100 million people can (4+ / 0-)

    be considered to be "a fringe" (?)

    •  Yes, if the trend continues, it might be a fringe, (3+ / 0-)

      but 35% of all households is still a lot of people.

      -7.25, -6.26

      We are men of action; lies do not become us.

      by ER Doc on Wed May 28, 2014 at 11:07:36 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Another way to look at this is that (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        nellgwen, ER Doc

        that statement in the diary that gun ownership is "in decline" is flat out wrong.

        The numbers:

        50% of 1970s population (215 million in 1975) = 107 million
        34% of 2014 population (317 million) = 108 million.

        IOW, gun ownership has been rock solid, it is not in decline.

        It's just that it has not kept pace with overall population growth (which is how Kos' link correctly phrases, things, too bad a front page diary at a "reality based" site couldn't take the care to be equally accurate . .. .)

        •  Umm, no, it's fewer people buying more guns (0+ / 0-)

          But that's a pattern of decline for one simple reason -- eventually those people die. Run the actuarial charts on those folks for another 45 years and see what the numbers will look like.

          GOP 2014 strategy -- Hire clowns, elephants, and a ringmaster and say "a media circus" has emerged and blame Democrats for lack of progress. Have pundits agree that "both sides are to blame" and hope the public will stay home on election day.

          by ontheleftcoast on Wed May 28, 2014 at 11:21:09 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  But still gun ownership is not in decline (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ER Doc

            anymore than the number of house or senate seats are in decline.  

            Or the number of professional sports teams over the past decade or two . . . .

            Even though neither of these things (and others!) have kept pace with population growth, still no one out there describes them as "being in decline"

            •  Well I'd argue that the usefulness of the House (0+ / 0-)

              has been in steady decline since 2011 but that isn't because of the number of seats... Well, actually... If we had 10,000 seats (about number we'd need to get back to the original ratio of voting citizens to House members) it would be almost impossible to gerrymander the makeup of the House and it would be in Democratic control. So, yeah, maybe we should talk about the House being in decline.

              GOP 2014 strategy -- Hire clowns, elephants, and a ringmaster and say "a media circus" has emerged and blame Democrats for lack of progress. Have pundits agree that "both sides are to blame" and hope the public will stay home on election day.

              by ontheleftcoast on Wed May 28, 2014 at 11:31:07 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  35% of households (0+ / 0-)

        does not equal 100,000,000 people. It's probably only one or two gun owners in each of those households with maybe an average of 4 inhabitants.
        And some houses have but one gun, and that could be grandpa's old shotgun or squirrel rifle.
        Other houses, Daddy has a couple dozen guns.

        Can't correlate 1/3 of homes with 1/3 of people.

        Lead with love. Forgive as a reflex.

        by Gentle Giant on Wed May 28, 2014 at 11:36:23 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  If the federal government was really (9+ / 0-)

    as tyrannical as these morons think, it would show their wives and moms all they porn they were downloading.

    I live under the bridge to the 21st Century.

    by Crashing Vor on Wed May 28, 2014 at 10:49:49 AM PDT

  •  You'd be surprised what a few million (1+ / 1-)
    Recommended by:
    Neo Control
    Hidden by:
    Via Chicago

    motivated men with rifles can do.

    Let's just say Iraq and Afghanistan would look like a walk in the park.

  •  What most of these gun nuts are either too stupid (8+ / 0-)

    or too ignorant to understand is that it doesn't take a Hellfire missile. It doesn't take a drone. It takes the click of a key on a keyboard from a droll office three thousand miles away and anyone's brain within a five thousand yard radius can be instantly turned into a gelatinous mass through sonic waves alone.  The military has technology that can turn even someone in a standard enclosed structure into a writhing mass of enervated pain within a few seconds while its operator sits munching a cheeseburger and surfing Facebook for old girlfriends.

    The idea that a gun could protect you from "the government" is so arcane and anachronistic as to be truly laughable.

  •  Thank you kos for the distinctions (10+ / 0-)

    Because the vast majority of gun owners are not these guys, they are an embarrassment, along with the craven NRA.

    I believe in RKBA but not in what these people believe in and it needs be told, they represent only their own dysfunctional fantasy world. I cringe when I see them.

    I do know a guy who really does believe this anti government bullshit. He's armed and humorless and totally without irony since he lives on his government pension and SS. facepalm

    Some humans ain't human some people ain't kind. They lie through their teeth with their head up their behind. You open up their hearts and here's what you'll find - Some humans ain't human some people ain't kind. John Prine

    by high uintas on Wed May 28, 2014 at 10:51:21 AM PDT

    •  I second that, Kos (4+ / 0-)

      The distinction you make between "those who live in the country and need their guns for either genuine protection or to hunt their own food. Those guys are lugging around Winchesters, Remingtons and Rugers. Not AR-15s. This doesn't refer to those who collect guns out of genuine historical interest, as opposed to "collecting" themselves their own private arsenal (no one is going around shooting up schools with flintlocks)."

      Sadly, most of the gun threads are replete with comments from those who make no such distinction. I live in the country and have had to dispatch my share of varmints that love to eat my livestock, vegetables and fruits. It is far enough out that personal protection has come into play in my neighborhood before as well. The deputies are never on time out here.

      Perhaps some of the rabid anti-gunners live well-protected in the city with neighbors at both of their elbows and cops on every corner. I can see that. But most of the anti-gunners can't seem to fathom someone who does not like to live in a city but enjoys the wide open spaces, clean air, star-filled nights and privacy.

      So, thank you, Kos.

      Oh, and rocksout, Europe still has plenty of guns, highly regulated, but they do exist. Look it up.

      •  I've lived in rural areas all my life. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        flevitan

        Never needed a gun.

        Deer aren't dangerous. Rabbits. Squirrels.

        Bear tend to avoid people unless you leave your garbage out. Same with raccoon.

        Had a big cat in the hedge row one night. Banging a baseball bat on the porch sent it away.
        If not, I'd call animal control.

        Lead with love. Forgive as a reflex.

        by Gentle Giant on Wed May 28, 2014 at 11:42:15 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  No bears (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Gentle Giant, high uintas

          But have you ever had an entire peach, pear and apple crop ruined by squirrels? They like to pull off the fruit, take two or three bites, then leave it on the ground for the ants while they go back for more. I have. That's when the wife suggested I buy a quality .22 rifle. Haven't looked back since.

          Have you ever had a raccoon kill half your chicken flock---inside the coop? I have. Raccoons are smarter than they look---he figured out the latch. Not sure how long it took, but he did. Speaking of raccoons, ever grown a crop of sweet corn only have it devastated the day before you planned to harvest? I have.

          Have you ever had a possum lurking and preparing to dine on chickens---inside the coop? I have.

          Have you ever caught on your critter cam photos of foxes, coyotes, stray dogs, etc? I have.

          I called Animal Control once. It was a Saturday, and the truck wasn't running. So with two unleashed, uncontrolled dogs locked in my garage after dragging them out of the chicken coop (where NO chickens survived), a Sherriff's deputy came out to see if he could find the owners. He couldn't so I drove them both 30 miles to the Humane Society. Funny thing, before giving up his search, the deputy said to my wife and me, "You do know that you have the right to shoot and kill a dog that is harming your livestock, right?" Animal control is usually not an option on a homestead.

          •  We don't have so large a population of (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Tominator

            squirrels, thankfully. And I have no fruit trees or a vegetable garden. No livestock.

            Neighbor's dog killed our kitten. My kids' fault for taking her outside directly against my orders, though I didn't tell them that. They felt horrible enough.
            A friend who is a deputy said I should by a chicken. If the dog comes in the yard, shoot it.
            Those same kids are the reason I would have no gun in the house.
            In your position, target practice. Then google for some wildlife recipes.

            Lead with love. Forgive as a reflex.

            by Gentle Giant on Wed May 28, 2014 at 01:53:49 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Not sure (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              high uintas, Gentle Giant

              I would want to bait a dog with a chicken only to shoot it. Chickens are just too handy to have around and I have sucked it up and installed electricity all around the coop so I hopefully I won't have to kill any predators; all of them hate electricity. As do I when I'm weeding the perimeter.

              We're having squirrel tonight, in fact. Probably grilled. The girl likes the backwoods ways of doing a lot of things.

              I respect your choice not to have guns around the house with your kids if you feel you do not need to. Gun safes are not inexpensive and there is the occasional OCD moment of "surely I locked the damn thing this morning...". The sheriff hands out trigger locks for free, so there's that. Anyway, nice chatting with you. Stay gentle.

      •  how are you getting (0+ / 0-)

        from Kos's paragraph to 'rabid anti-gunners'?
        Because that connection seems to be visible to only some of the people here.

        (Is it time for the pitchforks and torches yet?)

        by PJEvans on Wed May 28, 2014 at 11:50:04 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  It of course wasn't in kos' post (0+ / 0-)

          Which is why he was thanked. Simple.

          Some humans ain't human some people ain't kind. They lie through their teeth with their head up their behind. You open up their hearts and here's what you'll find - Some humans ain't human some people ain't kind. John Prine

          by high uintas on Wed May 28, 2014 at 03:05:49 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  two proposals (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tobendaro, Yonit
    A couple of stipulations—this doesn't refer to those who live in the country and need their guns for either genuine protection or to hunt their own food. Those guys are lugging around Winchesters, Remingtons and Rugers. Not AR-15s. This doesn't refer to those who collect guns out of genuine historical interest, as opposed to "collecting" themselves their own private arsenal (no one is going around shooting up schools with flintlocks).
    I agree with this, and there are two simple proposals that would largely allow the ownership of guns for recreation, give the wackos their guns, and protect everyone else from the nutjobs.

    First, do not regulate guns at all, regulate ammunition. All ammunition sold is put in a database at time of sale and associated with a person and serial numbers on the ammunition.  The federal governement can certainly do this with interstate businesses, but states can also do this.  Empty casing, shells, and powder is unregulated.  Therefore if someone is accumulating ammunition, this can be flagged.  It does not matter if they go to different stores, everything goes in the same database.

    Second, expand the Stand Your Ground Laws.  If someone is displaying a gun, and any other person feels threatened by that display, the other persons or person has the legal right to use deadly force to protect themselves.  The law should acknowledge that the display of weapon is more than 50% to the way to using the weapon, so if someone with a gun that can be used quickly is threatening, or make someone else be threatened, then the other person, under the legal theories currently used in this country, should be able to use whatever means to render the other person harmless.

    Again, this has no effect on the categories of people who under this diary have reasonable reasons to have and carry guns.  It only effects those that a reasonable person would determine would want to harm others.

    •  First, why not regulate both guns and ammo? (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      nellgwen, Gentle Giant, PJEvans, flevitan

      And Second, your expanded Stand Your Ground is the OK Corral writ large. Watch out, law enforcement, unarmed bystanders and kids in the park.

      Those cannot be serious proposals.

      2014 is HERE. Build up the Senate. Win back the House : 17 seats. Plus!

      by TRPChicago on Wed May 28, 2014 at 11:05:27 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  not at all (0+ / 0-)

        Under the myth of the OK Corral, it was assumed that both parties were similarly armed. Furthermore the culture, which we still live with today, but with less skill, was that a gun was a tool that one learned to use to solve problems.

        With SYG, those with guns are free to murder if they 'feel threatened' and those without guns are implicitly consenting to be murdered.  It can be argued that the biggest difference between the OK coral and now, the reason we have so many people killed, is because it is no longer necessary for a fight to be fair, just for one person to be a coward.f

        Of course, this implies that all problems are best solved with guns.  If one is in a starbucks, and some nut is waving his gun around, and one feels threatened, then maybe poisoning his coffee will be the best option, for instance, with no avocation of poising as way to solve problems.

  •  Only the share of people stupid enough to answer (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Neo Control, Gentle Giant

    that "public opinion" survey honestly has dropped, kos.

    In 2012, the share of American households with guns was 34 percent, according to survey results released on Thursday.
    The real survey is firearm and ammunition sales, the results of which tell me that more than people "afraid of a black president" are purchasing firearms.  

    PS:  The right of the people to keep and bear death penises shall not be infringed, until the Second Amendment is repealed.  

    If you get confused, listen to the music play - R. Hunter

    by SpamNunn on Wed May 28, 2014 at 10:53:20 AM PDT

    •  It can't just be NRA members buying guns. (0+ / 0-)

      More than 21 million applications were run through the National Instant Criminal Background Check System last year, marking nearly an 8 percent increase and the 11th straight year that the number has risen.  2013 was also the best year for firearm sales (commercial, domestic) in history.  

      And that's just the legal sales.

      If you get confused, listen to the music play - R. Hunter

      by SpamNunn on Wed May 28, 2014 at 10:57:43 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Dude (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ExpatGirl, PJEvans, a2nite

        You've been here long enough to demonstrate you are not this stupid.  A rise in applications in the background check system does not necessarily mean more people with guns.  It can also mean fewer people with more guns.

        All the rise in background checks says is that more guns are being sold, not to whom.

        "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

        by Empty Vessel on Wed May 28, 2014 at 11:09:14 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  And you are smart enough to know that more and (0+ / 0-)

          more guns and ammo are not being bought by fewer and fewer people each year.  Believe that if you want to, but it's not true.   All we know is that fewer households are reporting that there is a gun in the house.   I don't tell strangers what I keep in my house.  I suspect that most people do not, especially when there are laws being passed that provide for the confiscation of guns and magazines that are currently legal to possess.   I don't have jack in my house.  Get it?

          Also, be more considerate as to who you call stupid. I am smart enough to know an insult when I see one.  

          If you get confused, listen to the music play - R. Hunter

          by SpamNunn on Wed May 28, 2014 at 12:34:45 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  You say categorically (0+ / 0-)

            That more guns are NOT being bought by fewer people.  How do you now that, and what, specifically in the background check data demonstrates that?

            How can you determine from the background check data who is buying guns, and how many they already have?

            Your are spouting personal opinion and citing unrelated statistics to back it up.

            Ball in your court.  

            "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

            by Empty Vessel on Wed May 28, 2014 at 02:04:45 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Spout this. (0+ / 0-)

              According to the Illinois State Police (Illinois hardly being a bastion of Tea Party rednecks), 1.2 million unique Illinoisans held Firearm Owners Identification (FOID) cards in 2012.  According to Illinois State Police spokeswoman Monique Bond, that number jumped to 1.6 million in 2013, with a huge jump occurring in January of 2013, just after the Supreme Court ruled that Illinois couldn’t ban public carry anymore.   Ms. Bond reported that there were 61,000 FOID applications in January of 2013, nearly double the 31,000 in January 2012.

              400,000 Illinoisans who did not have FOID cards in 2012 applied for them in 2013.  This pattern is repeating itself across the country.   Gun sales are up.  Ammo sales are up.  

              Polls do show, however, that firearm ownership among registered Democrats is, in fact, down.  You really need to get out more.  

              Source (CBS News, Chicago):

              http://chicago.cbslocal.com/...

              If you get confused, listen to the music play - R. Hunter

              by SpamNunn on Wed May 28, 2014 at 02:56:37 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Only one example. I have more. (0+ / 0-)

                If you get confused, listen to the music play - R. Hunter

                by SpamNunn on Wed May 28, 2014 at 02:57:24 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Ah (0+ / 0-)

                  When asked about one claim, and spurious citation of one statistic, you switch to another.

                  Until and unless you explain your first claim, and how the background check database confirms it, I am done talking with you.  

                  Seriously, I'm done until you explain how more background checks necessarily means more people with guns rather than more guns for fewer people.

                  Not gonna play whack-a-mole with you.  Defend your first claim, or feel free to whistle in the dark.

                  "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

                  by Empty Vessel on Wed May 28, 2014 at 03:02:48 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  What don't you understand about the relationship (0+ / 0-)

                    between the number of persons applying for FOID's, an increase in gun sales and an increase in ammo purchases as being more indicative of an increase in gun ownership than the results of a poll that asks people if there is a gun in the house?   I will try to explain.

                    If you get confused, listen to the music play - R. Hunter

                    by SpamNunn on Thu May 29, 2014 at 05:02:58 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

  •  Hence the NRA (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Miggles, defluxion10

    OMG/Oh Noes marketing effort and their all around fear-mongering leader.

    Reality is that gun ownership is on the decline.
  •  Yep, the 2nd amendment... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    nellgwen, Gentle Giant

    does not include the word guns, it specifically says arms and we all know that these idiots are not allowed to own pretty much any arms more powerful than semi-automatic weapons.

    Also, when corporate America continues to decrease the wages of most Americans then who in the hell can afford guns and ammo anyway, which is one reason the largest customer base for guns and ammo is increasingly becoming the deluded and paranoid mentally ill folks like these idiots...

    Fox News, The triumph of stupidity over reason.

    by laughingriver on Wed May 28, 2014 at 10:55:32 AM PDT

  •  Every single one of those "gun fetisists" (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ER Doc, annieli, KingBolete

    is a working man who would benefit from economic policies enacted by Democrats.  They should vote for Democrats.

    They never will as long as highly credentialized, urban, snobs like Atrios continue to insult them and demean their culture.

    Gun control is a monumentally stupid project that divides working people and makes the political divide cultural, rather than economic.  Stop doing it.  

    Here's my message:  "Enjoy your guns, and vote for Democrats."  If you can split off just a few rural working class Republicans, you will save more lives through a stronger economy and access to healthcare than restricting gun magazines ever will.

    Remember, we had an assault weapons ban in place for Columbine.  

    •  So, gun owners of all kinds are one-issue voters? (4+ / 0-)

      What's preventing them from voting Democratic is the fact that a gun-diddled bipartisan Senate and a Republican-dominated House who couldn't pass Manchin-Toomey last year might regulate guns some day?

      And the rest of us - a strong majority - should leave gun owners alone so they'll all vote for Democrats?

      You gotta be kidding.

      2014 is HERE. Build up the Senate. Win back the House : 17 seats. Plus!

      by TRPChicago on Wed May 28, 2014 at 11:14:01 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  So, this is apparently a "culture"? (4+ / 0-)

      And, somehow, we don't respect it??

      Yes, let's stoke the fires of "urban" vs "suburban" - that will play out well, especially here.  (Was there a dogwhistle in there somewhere?)

      All us city dwellers are snobs and we demean a culture (I'm sorry, I have to laugh at that while I am typing here) that requires you to walk around with an AR-15 (or other such type of gun) to your back in armed defiance of the US government... And I have to respect that for some reason?  

      Let me define "monumentally stupid" for you: assuming that any one of these assholes would EVER vote Democratic because we have told them to "enjoy your guns"...  Progressive values extend FAR beyond gun control (unlike certain people on here who ONLY comment in diaries like this). We believe in things like equality, for all, something those types would NEVER get behind.  It would mean that people other than white, Christian (supposedly) males have power... and they will NEVER let that happen.

      It is better to light a candle than curse the darkness- Unknown -7.50, -5.03

      by dawgflyer13 on Wed May 28, 2014 at 11:26:48 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  dawg, I know several people who think like that. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        flevitan

        City Slickers is not just the name of a Billy Crystal movie.

        In this day of mass communication, the Rube and the Uppity Urban types are far less applicable than a half century ago. Yet they survive.
        Rural people can be highly sophisticated. And urban people can be bumpkins. With the access to information and, therefore, culture, anyone living anywhere is able, if having the requisite intellect, to become highly sophisticated.

        I agree with you.

        Lead with love. Forgive as a reflex.

        by Gentle Giant on Wed May 28, 2014 at 11:50:55 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Yes, it is a culture . . . (0+ / 0-)

        . . . and you very clearly don't respect it.

        I live in the south.  I was born here, grew up here, and have never lived anywhere but the South.  I personally know a fair number of people with racial, cultural, and political views that would curl your hair.  That isn't everybody by a long shot.  I vote for Democrats, because Democrats deliver the economic policies that work.

        A lot of my compatriots are southern progressives who think and vote the same way I do.  Many of them own guns.  Wait, let me clarify. When I say "own guns," I mean we like them.  WE think shooting is fun.  Some of us are hunters, and don't bother telling a hunter "you don't need an AR 15."  He won't appreciate you telling him what he "needs."  He'll tell you  that you need to buy a gun.

        But here's the thing.  None of your proposed regulations will accomplish anything at all.  You disagree?  Fair enough.  Prove it.  What's your data?  As I pointed out, we had an assault weapons ban in place, and we had mass shootings.  Help me sell it to the southerners I know who own AR 15's.  

        All of the gun control proposals are feel-good measures . . . for you.  They make you feel superior to "all those assholes" to use your language.  

        Meanwhile, I don't have to persuade "all those assholes."  I just have persuade a relatively small percentage of working class Republican voters . . . the kind of people who own guns.  Right now, you're not helping me do that.

    •  So Atrios is a snob? WTF. (0+ / 0-)
      They never will as long as highly credentialized, urban, snobs like Atrios continue to insult them and demean their culture.
      You lost me on that one.
  •  Righteous rant. (8+ / 0-)

    I have been sick and tired of these idiots for a long time, it seems that t he majority of the country has had it.  Now, about Congress... VOTE, PEOPLE, VOTE.

    The thing about democracy, beloveds, is that it is not neat, orderly, or quiet. It requires a certain relish for confusion. Molly Ivins

    by MufsMom on Wed May 28, 2014 at 10:58:04 AM PDT

  •  Please KOS, do explain (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Gentle Giant

    the difference of this:

    those guys are lugging around Winchesters, Remingtons and Rugers. Not AR-15s.
    Since most gun violence is the result of handguns, what is your point?

    "When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains, And the women come out to cut up what remains, Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains An' go to your Gawd like a soldier." Rudyard Kipling

    by EdMass on Wed May 28, 2014 at 10:59:13 AM PDT

    •  You make a coherent argument (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Miggles, MargaretPOA, PJEvans, flevitan

      Since most deaths in America are the result of heart attacks, we should have no speed limits next to elementary schools.

      Your argument is basically "squirrel"

      How about a simple, pragmatic approach to guns...start by banning the ones that have no practical purpose for any sane human.

      "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

      by Empty Vessel on Wed May 28, 2014 at 11:13:34 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  So you mean Handguns? n/t (0+ / 0-)

        "When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains, And the women come out to cut up what remains, Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains An' go to your Gawd like a soldier." Rudyard Kipling

        by EdMass on Wed May 28, 2014 at 11:28:51 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I mean (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Gentle Giant

          Assault rifles, clips over 10.  That would seem like a good start.we could then move on from there.

          Oh, and a registration and licensing system for all gun owners.

          "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

          by Empty Vessel on Wed May 28, 2014 at 11:33:00 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  You do know (0+ / 0-)

            that handguns may have large magazines.  It is statistically proven that most gun deaths are the result of handguns.  Why not start where the problem is and move on from there?  

            Umm how about what is happening in Chicago?  Not a lot of AR-15s happening there, is there?

            "When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains, And the women come out to cut up what remains, Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains An' go to your Gawd like a soldier." Rudyard Kipling

            by EdMass on Wed May 28, 2014 at 11:52:23 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Squirrel (0+ / 0-)

              I said start with the ones that have no sane purpose, like assault rifles.  There is a sane purpose for many handguns, home defense.  

              Why start with the hard stuff, go with the stuff that is easy, and work out to the next easiest, and so on.

              You may want to talk about handguns.  I'm not.  

              "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

              by Empty Vessel on Wed May 28, 2014 at 11:57:41 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Got it. (0+ / 0-)

                Let's go after legally owned rifles and ignore the real problem.  We'll all feel better.

                How about, Chicken!

                "When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains, And the women come out to cut up what remains, Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains An' go to your Gawd like a soldier." Rudyard Kipling

                by EdMass on Wed May 28, 2014 at 02:25:57 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Ah, (0+ / 0-)

                  You would prefer that I instead talk about taking legally owned handguns?  Obvious bait is obvious.

                  "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

                  by Empty Vessel on Wed May 28, 2014 at 02:36:15 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  C'mon (0+ / 0-)

                    I am not  attempting to"bait" you.  You just don't want to discuss/acknowledge the real issue.

                    Empty is about right.

                    Luv and kisses.

                    "When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains, And the women come out to cut up what remains, Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains An' go to your Gawd like a soldier." Rudyard Kipling

                    by EdMass on Wed May 28, 2014 at 03:24:07 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

    •  It seemed to me that the point was (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      PJEvans, Gentle Giant, Thinking Fella

      It seemed to me that the point was that Kos was making a distinction between types of gun owners, not types of guns. But if you took it like that, where would your outrage be then?

      "Given the choice between a Republican and someone who acts like a Republican, people will vote for a real Republican every time." Harry Truman

      by MargaretPOA on Wed May 28, 2014 at 11:43:59 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  35% is a fringe now? nt (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Elizaveta, Tom Seaview

    "I'm a progressive man and I like progressive people" Peter Tosh

    by Texas Lefty on Wed May 28, 2014 at 10:59:45 AM PDT

    •  That number now at 35% is clear (0+ / 0-)

      evidence that the gun nuts are the fringe of an ever shrinking minority.  The fringe are becoming more fringy by the day.

    •  The diary is focused on a slice of that 35% - and (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Glen The Plumber, Gentle Giant

      yes, that slice is the fringe. But it dominates the entire 35% pie of gun owners. So, perhaps, yes, a lot of 35% is the fringe - if they are going to look the other way and not actively stand up to that fringe that is dominating the pro-gun side and not help to pass sensible gun safety legislation, then perhaps they have wedded themselves to the fringe.

      "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

      by We Shall Overcome on Wed May 28, 2014 at 11:27:02 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  35% of households. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        We Shall Overcome

        Not 35% of people.

        Big difference. Major distinction.

        Lead with love. Forgive as a reflex.

        by Gentle Giant on Wed May 28, 2014 at 11:54:17 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Thanks, yes. So maybe 50% of the people in those (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Gentle Giant

          homes have guns ... so maybe we are talking about a gun owning population of 17.5% and of that population 10-20% (5 million - hey, about what the NRA claims as membership) are the fringe but that fringe is the most vocal and visible and so becomes the face of the entire gun owning community, if, the rest of the gun owning community does not stand up to the bullies.

          BTW, a good new and apropos read:

          The gun industry has a problem. Despite the United States having a reputation for being a “gun-loving” country, interest in gun ownership is actually declining, fairly dramatically in fact. Nearly half of American households had a gun in the '70s, but since then it’s sloped downward. Now only 34 percent of American households own a gun. Demographic changes are a huge factor, with younger Americans showing very little interest in gun ownership. Only 23 percent of people under 30 live in households with a gun, down from 47 percent in the 1970s. How does the gun industry keep selling guns and making money when the customer base for guns appears to be rapidly shrinking?

          It seems the industry has figured out an ingenious solution to the problem: Convince people who are interested in guns to buy more guns. Indeed, having a bunch of highly invested repeat customers might make for an even more profitable strategy than simply trying to get a gun into every household. Convincing the small number of gun lovers in the United States to create individual arsenals has kept gun sales numbers high. The result is that gun ownership is becoming a highly concentrated activity. Nearly half of gun owners own four or more guns. Twenty percent of gun owners—around 7 percent of Americans overall—own a whopping 65 percent of the guns in this country.

          http://www.alternet.org/...

          After reading that under 30s own fewer guns than their parents or grandparents, you'd think the gun lobby would do everything in it's power not to alienate them - ie, STOP SCHOOL SHOOTINGS. These 30 somethings came of age in the Columbine-era, no wonder they are turning away from guns.

          "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

          by We Shall Overcome on Wed May 28, 2014 at 12:34:29 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Has Anyone Else read "History of 2nd Amendment" (8+ / 0-)

    Waldman completely debunks the idea that the amendment was intended to give gun ownership rights to everyone.  In fact, it was intended to support the creation of a "well regulated"militia in place of a standing army which the founders did not want.  As with much of what is wrong in our nation today, the Supreme Court is largely responsible. When the gun nuts proclaim their constitutional rights they are proclaiming rights that do not exist except in the minds of the gun lobby and the likes of Scalia who is bought and paid for.  The founders in no way intended the proliferation of unregulated gun ownership.

    •  Apparently (0+ / 0-)

      There was also some pressure from the southern states to ensure that white posses could form in case of slave revolts or similar problems.

    •  So a SCOTUS that proclaims (0+ / 0-)

      gun people have rights un-written in the constitution, it is wonderful, upholds the constitution, freedums, etc.

      When a SCOTUS proclaims that women have the right to privacy, unwritten in the constitution, they are evil and women must be controlled by the states.

      What is wrong with this picture? How stupid is that kind of thinking?

      I reject your reality and substitute my own - Adam Savage

      by woolibaar on Wed May 28, 2014 at 11:55:44 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Giant external death penis (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    nellgwen, flevitan

    Call me confused, I thought that was a Tea Party Dude's truck....

  •  How about Gun Aficionado-Apalooza? (5+ / 0-)

    A weekly compendium of the stupid shit gun aficionados post here?

    The greatest hits off the Gun Aficionado Jukebox™...

    "It won't work because... freedom!"

    "Why punish innocent, law abiding citizens because of a whacko every other week a few bad apples?"

    "Gun owners are an oppressed minority, just like gays/transexuals/blacks/Latinos!"

    "The cops won't be there when I need them and besides, I'm just as capable as they are with all their fancy training and stuff!"

    "Because TYRANNICALL GUVERMINT!"

    And my personal favourite, uttered by more than a few gun aficionados around here:

    "You're an authoritarian!"

    Thank you, Kos for saying what so many of us believe to be true...

    Enough!

    Not. One. More...

    Baby, where I come from...

    by ThatSinger on Wed May 28, 2014 at 11:04:25 AM PDT

  •  Just received this from a local conservation group (8+ / 0-)
    ALL USERS OF GLACIAL HERITAGE!!
    This includes volunteers, seed collectors, partners, researchers, restoration folks- everyone!!!
    We continue to have incidents with the neighbor on the end of the road- always with the same complaint- driving too fast- along with degrading remarks about "hippies", nature and all things Glacial.  This person has shown himself to be unstable- potentially violent- and well armed- this means weapons folks!
    I added emphasis.

    All because nature-loving volunteers are engaged in the following horrible activities on land adjacent to his:

    Seed collectors- please try to look at other sites for the time being.  Researchers- if at all possible- monitor different sites or postpone your visits.  Partners- if you need to visit the preserve or have a scheduled tour- be sure I am notified and can take precautions.  Volunteers- we will be scheduling volunteer days at other places for the time being.  Restoration- you should be with me if we are working there.  Bird banding- MAPS station will operate in June- and we need to coordinate entry to limit difficulty.  Tours and classes- consider Glacial closed- large groups seem to ignite reaction.
    Fucking guns. Fucking NRA. Fucking Fox News. Fucking anyone like Clive Bundy.
  •  Wait, (5+ / 0-)

    how are we supposed to defend ourselves from (insert random boogieman) if we are not allowed to pack the rough equivalent of a Navy Seal Teams Firepower.

    Seriously though, I reserve the right to conceal or open carry an RPG into any establishment, because I might get a paper cut on the receipt, or a cockroach might try to jump me in the bathroom of my local Chili's, Applebee's, Sonic, etc...

    Of course it has nothing to do with being so fearful that I've invested my entire 401k in Depends undergarments.  What do I have to fear as long as I have my Mark XIX .50 AE Desert Eagle that shoots .50 caliber armor piercing rounds (stuffed into my waistband as any responsible gun owner would do).

    Finally, I am in no way responsible for any "accidental" discharges of said weapon(s), nor am I responsible should I leave it laying around so that my 10 year old can pick it up and blow my 4 year olds brains out. Nope careless people with guns don't kill people, only bad people with guns kill people, and I'm just not a bad person... now where did I put my Barret 50, have to take care of some varmints out in the north 40 (vegetable garden)...

  •  It's not just the gun makers who've grown rich (8+ / 0-)

    It's also Magpul, Trijicon, TAPCO, EoTech, Streamlight, Surefire, Troy, Blackhawk, 5.11, TangoDown, BravoCompanyUSA, etc.

    There's an entire industry making hundreds of millions of dollars accessorizing these so-called "black rifles" - money NOT made when Grandpa Hunter or Father Skeet Shooter buys a simple shotgun and passes it down to Little Timmy.

    Those companies are also part of the New NRA and are just as powerful and greedy as the gunmakers themselves.

  •  kos, we have the same mentality on exhibit here (7+ / 0-)

    ... on a regular basis.

    We can call the Bundy Ranch "militias" or the Chipotle gun toters jackasses or idiots or assholes, but the fundamental notions that these people use to support their idiocy get repeated here by a small subset of self-proclaimed "liberal" gun owners, particularly among those who are active proponents of concealed and/or open carry.

    In fact, I wrote a diary presenting examples from Daily Kos a couple of weeks ago:

    Yes, even liberals can internalize the NRA's paranoid rhetoric

    The examples I provide show just how deeply ingrained the 40 years of manipulative NRA and gun industry propaganda have become in this country.

    The very idea that one must be armed at all times in case the "shit hits the fan" (SHTF in macho, gun toter parlance) gets repeated here by any number of posters who support concealed and/or open carry. Any suggestions about reigning in this insanity in the slightest is met with immediate cries of "gun grabbers" or some facsimile.

    That is a complete regurgitation of NRA propaganda. And we see it here over and over.

    This country is, literally, awash in guns. We have from two to five times as many guns per capita as any other developed nation on the planet. As a consequence, we have more gun deaths per capita than any other developed nation in the world, as well.

    It's insanity.

    So we can call the Bundy "militia" members names and we can mock the Chipotle gun toters all we want, but digging ourselves out of the insanity of our gun policies is going to be a long, slow slog. The NRA has been very successful, obviously.

    "Bob Johnson doesn't have special privileges, because really, why would I entrust that guy with ANYTHING?" - kos, November 9, 2013

    by Bob Johnson on Wed May 28, 2014 at 11:09:41 AM PDT

  •  Heartily tipped & rec'd for this: (6+ / 0-)
    A couple of stipulations—this doesn't refer to those who live in the country and need their guns for either genuine protection or to hunt their own food. Those guys are lugging around Winchesters, Remingtons and Rugers. Not AR-15s. This doesn't refer to those who collect guns out of genuine historical interest, as opposed to "collecting" themselves their own private arsenal (no one is going around shooting up schools with flintlocks).
    I am hopeful to read that an acknowledgement is there that not every single person who owns a gun is hell bent on acquiring an arsenal or going on a homicidal spree. It gets flame-y around here for stating that some people might have a legitimate need or use for a weapon(that doesn't include strutting around town with a military grade weapon). There are many millions of people--from women being stalked to those living where 'wild animals' pose a realistic if rare threat--that have a reasonable, legitimate reason for owning a weapon. And by weapon, I mean something to protect one's self, not something to perch on an overpass with... Conversely, there are way, way too many unstable, murderous, revenge-seeking psychopaths out there with far too easy access to a gun or guns.

    I think a step to regaining at least a sense of sanity around violence & gun crimes is to acknowledge that millions of Americans are sane, non-dangerous gun owners. They are not to be confused with the true nut cases that bring their guns out for play or show & tell like the Bundy crowd or the Texans for Gun Insanity Everywhere crowd. Or definitely not the folks who are murderous, mass-killing psychopaths. If you want to leverage all those millions of votes those folks need to be teased out from the group of "all gun owners are nutcases".

    By lumping together ALL gun owners, we lose a large number of somewhat like-minded voters. If you hold some dude in a rural place responsible for something that occurred 1000 miles away & was perpetrated by an insane person, we'll never get past shit we need to get past to have a meaningful discussion followed by implementation of Laws to prevent gun violence.
    Luckily(for me, anyway), it was my local State Rep that I helped elect who authored Colorado's new-ish gun laws that caused such a kerfuffle. I'm working hard again to keep him in office. His Bill wasn't perfect for anyone--but at least SOMETHNG got done. That's more than most localities can say. And it wasn't accomplished by demeaning entire groups of people. You'll never convince my neighbors who hunt or are outfitters or live with mtn  lions & bears & coyotes or have a restraining order against an abusive ex-spouse to give up their guns. There is currently a diary on the rec list re: a new CA bill to have friends & family have a say in who is unfit for gun ownership. Without knowing the specifics of that Bill, it is that sort of forward, out-of-the-box thinking that will make us all safer.

    Thanks for reading, flame away.

    The better I know people, the more I like my dog.

    by Thinking Fella on Wed May 28, 2014 at 11:10:56 AM PDT

  •  Just maybe . . . (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    flevitan

    When guns are outlawed
    Only outlaws will have guns
    And cops can arrest them for
    Possession of a deadly weapon.

    Oh . . . wait . . .
    "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    So let us declare an "unregulated Militia" as absolutely unnecessary and prohibit them.

    Step right up, whacko bird, and get your free militia uniforms then step over there for your swearing in ceremony as you take the oath of enlistment:

    I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.
    Having sworn to obey the orders of the President, he says take your stupid thunderstick and get your dumbass back to the house and stay there until ordered to defend against either a foreign or domestic enemy.

    And . . . by the way . . . since only "the security of a free State" was the intent, then none of the slave states can keep or bear arms.

    Let's have some old fashioned "original intent" judicial decisions from now on, OK.

    We're all just working for Pharaoh.

    by whl on Wed May 28, 2014 at 11:10:57 AM PDT

    •  Judicial intent includes the (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      whl

      at that time current armament.

      So no-one can own anything but a musket. One shot, reload, one more shot, reload, repeat as necessary. Oh, and don't forget to clean things so it doesn't jam or get too hot. And don't lose the little pellets and gunpowder, etc.

      Isn't gunpowder regulated as a hazardous material?

      I reject your reality and substitute my own - Adam Savage

      by woolibaar on Wed May 28, 2014 at 12:00:44 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I thought gun sales went up (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    nellgwen

    after the Sandy shootings?  When they were sure Obama would be taking all the guns any minute.  This is when my previously sane mother who has been watching Fox for the last few years decided she'd better get a .38 special NOW.  She's 83.

  •  They like to use the term "Righteous Kill" (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    nellgwen

    As if there is such a thing...

    In loyalty to their kind, they cannot tolerate our minds. In loyalty to our kind, We cannot tolerate their obstruction.

    by mojave mike on Wed May 28, 2014 at 11:16:44 AM PDT

  •  Idiots in a very literal etymological sense - the (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Yonit

    origin of the word is Greek idios = self, ie those who are aware of nothing but themselves.  Must be boring, right?  

    'In a situation of infinity, whatever is possible exists in fact' Jack Vance

    by richardvjohnson on Wed May 28, 2014 at 11:18:59 AM PDT

  •  I wonder if the decrease in the percentage (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    nellgwen

    of households with a gun is due to increased paranoia (at least in part) rather than an actual decrease. An increase in people thinking that such a poll is a guberment operation to identify them and take their guns. Or maybe i'm just being paranoid.

  •  Delete my ... no, Delete THEIR F*cking external (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Gentle Giant, flevitan

    death penises, Kos!

    Sigh.  If you only could.

  •  Owning a gun (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Gentle Giant, a2nite

    I have a couple pistols and a shotgun so I could make a stand against a violent intruder at my home.  And there they stay.  I wouldn't have any trouble with the "wolverine" and militia types if they left theirs at home too.  

    Home defense seems like an unassailable right.  Carrying it loaded out in public?  Not so much.

    And those who have a concrete need to carry should have training and a permit.

    Is that so radical?

  •  Clearly their strategy (4+ / 0-)

    Is to ensure as much carnage as possible so that the public will "rise up" or whatever against the federal government. This is evidenced by their callous willingness to shield themselves with their own children at Bundy's Bunkhouse Bunker. What seems to be happening instead is that society may finally be waking up and recoiling from the gun fetishism, the reflexive and irrational hatred, the misogyny and the disconnect with reality that modern conservatism is. I'm astonished that it's taken this long but I hope the social backlash when it comes will be so forceful that none of these clowns will dare to so much as talk about conservative doctrine for fear of making themselves fringe.

    "Given the choice between a Republican and someone who acts like a Republican, people will vote for a real Republican every time." Harry Truman

    by MargaretPOA on Wed May 28, 2014 at 11:39:32 AM PDT

  •  Fuck these guys. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Gentle Giant, flevitan, avsp

    They're useful idiots for the merchants of death, full stop.

    "Much of movement conservatism is a con and the base is the marks." -- Chris Hayes

    by raptavio on Wed May 28, 2014 at 11:48:39 AM PDT

  •  You can't yell "FIRE" in a crowded NRA meeting... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Gentle Giant, defluxion10

    because they'll all draw their guns and wipe themselves out.

    Anyway enough with the NRA joke, I do have a serious question. I'm not an NRA member (or even own a gun though I am a veteran and certainly know how to use them), but at the big NRA convention each year, are the NRA attendees allowed to bring loaded handguns (preferably with extended magazines) onto the convention floor when Wayne LaPierre (or the other speakers) are giving their speeches? If yes, then fine. If not, then why not? Just trying to see if the NRA's "guns don't kill people..." hypocrisy meter goes up to 11.

    I am proud to be able to say that I got the chance to vote for Ann Richards for Governor of Texas, twice!

    by dewtx on Wed May 28, 2014 at 11:49:20 AM PDT

  •  HEY!! (0+ / 0-)

    Leave the Wolverines out of this!! ;-)

  •  That quote from the idiot plumber guy (5+ / 0-)

    really encapsulated, in one sentence, the utterly self-centered worldview of these idiots.  And their constant need to shove it in everyone's faces will be their downfall.

    I browse slickdeals.net on occasion.  There's a small cadre of gun nuts there who post gun and ammo deals and they vote these posts up so they'll appear on the front page.  

    On the day after Sandy Hook, they started posted AR-15 'deals' (which weren't deals at all; that wasn't the point) one after another and voted them all up.  Probably the last thing the tech-oriented users of that site wanted to see after a massacre of children were their fucked-up AR-15 and ammo posts.  But there they were and new ones came up day after day after day. Anyone who went into their AR posts to object were shouted down.  

    They really are the worst advocates for their own cause I've ever seen.  And at some point they're going to cause the masses to say enough and start seriously holding their political figures accountable for these massacres.  

    If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich." - John F. Kennedy

    by Dem Beans on Wed May 28, 2014 at 12:01:52 PM PDT

    •  Which is why I think more of them need to (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Dem Beans, jayden

      speak their idiot minds and do so frequently!

      Most of the US has a lot of eye-rolling and disgusted sighs going on in response to this.

      Great, imho.

      The only hawk I like is the kind that has feathers. My birding blog: http://thisskysings.wordpress.com/

      by cany on Wed May 28, 2014 at 01:03:25 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Let's hear it for the right to bear Stinger (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    defluxion10

    missiles!

    You can tell Monopoly is an old game because there's a luxury tax and rich people can go to jail.

    by Simian on Wed May 28, 2014 at 12:07:21 PM PDT

  •  Oh, so the Government used its firepower on Bundy? (3+ / 0-)

    Of course the government has drones and superior firepower and all that shit, but they didn't use it. They wouldn't use it. And at the end of the day, they punked out on enforcing a legitimate court order against people precisely because they were armed and the situation could have been ugly. Which is exactly as it should be. We don't need to have shootouts with lunatics over grazing fees.

    Had those Bundy supporters come armed only with pickets and bullhorns, that entire situation would have been played differently. So let's not pretend the guns didn't make a difference in how the government responded. And if they wouldn't use that superior fire power or hellfire missiles on a bunch of redneck militia men, would they have done it to break up Occupy camps had those people been armed? How about neighbors who armed themselves and stood in front of houses to prevent foreclosures?

    So while I am in favor of gun control (universal background checks, ban on high-capacity magazines), and far from one of those gross fetishists, the whole guns can't prevent acts of government "tyranny" line has taken a bit of a hit, no?

    •  Those guys are all going to jail (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SixSixSix

      Later, slowly and quietly.  At least the ones that are on video pointing guns at officials.

      They weren't arrested at the scene because commanders in charge wisely decided not to cause a blood bath.

      •  To be clear, the Feds did the right thing... (0+ / 0-)

        By not engaging them in a firefight or having some type of carnage on the news the way that wacko Sheriff suggested when talking about putting their women out front.

        But I do think it showed that the line of thinking that guns can never be used as a defense against government action to be a bit questionable. When the government gets the cattle or the grazing fees, or Bundy and all those folks are arrested and charged (I hope all this does happen eventually), we can talk about the futility of the entire thing. But as it stands right now, the Bundy folks won.

  •  Well, these guys have graduated from (0+ / 0-)

    monster pick-up trucks to guns... Not what I'd call progress.  Pick-up truck owners, please don't flame me, I'm not saying everyone, etc.

    Most men in the U.S. still grow up idolizing John Wayne, or the more recent equivalent... It's more about the spirit of than the guy.  Come to think of it, growing up idolizing an ACTOR who PLAYS hard-asses says much more about the American meme and susceptibility to fantasy and images than the actions of the supposed hero.

    Such folks are walking, talking examples of the authoritarian personality and could not even contemplate the extent to which living as such is a much more self-driven deprivation of "their freedoms" than anything the guv'mint (the people) have ever done or even advocated.  While I pity them, I rejoice when circumstances tend to deflate their "cause."

    I blame the media's incessant need for "stories" and patronage for the perpetuation of this sickness.  It'd be nice if a few thousand of the more sensible NRA members would stand up to the louder voices of their brethren.  That said, I imagine if I lived a life where my favorite activity was pretending I was a member of a militia, I too would live in fear of tree-huggers cutting off my penis.

    Small steps, one supposes... I was glad of the Prez's announcement yesterday re: troops back home from the insanity in Afghanistan, the country which in MY youth was known primarily for the quality of its hash.

    How children dance to the unlived lives of their parents. Rilke

    by ceebee7 on Wed May 28, 2014 at 12:15:25 PM PDT

  •  I've always said that (0+ / 0-)

    the "2nd amendment as protection from government crowd" is stuck with an 18th c. view of warfare.  Everybody lines up and you can tell the red coats from the scrappy colonists.

    If a government really were tyrannical, why wouldn't it either use drones or do a Darth Vader/Alderaan type thing?  

    That's pretty much the reason why Scalia's "using the technology of the day" analysis makes no sense.  If that's the case, I should have access to drones and nukes to deter my government and we would universally (except for some Tea People) reject that.

    I'll always be...King of Bain...I'll always be...King of Bain

    by AZphilosopher on Wed May 28, 2014 at 12:34:54 PM PDT

  •  Hell in less than ten years those drones will be (0+ / 0-)

    carrying Lasers powerful enough to burn a neat hole right between the eyes before they can even yell "Wolverines".

  •  they do need another hobby, but they're (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    a2nite

    good for the economy and the GOP while bad for essential public safety.... a net social cost rather than a benefit

    In other words, our government packs heavier heat than anything these doofuses can ever own.

    They are idiots, plain and simple. They are very useful idiots, of course. They have made Colt and Smith & Wesson very wealthy in their business of dealing death, and their trade group, the NRA, couldn't exist without them. They are hilariously idiotic, and tragically idiotic, and scarily idiotic (as our never-ending parade of massacres now proves).

    Warning - some snark may be above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 "If we appear to seek the unattainable, then let it be known that we do so to avoid the unimaginable." (@eState4Column5)

    by annieli on Wed May 28, 2014 at 02:13:27 PM PDT

  •  . (0+ / 0-)

    The rights of the insecure morons to wave their moronic insecurity in our faces shall not be infringed.

    Nor the right of gun makers to increase their profits.

  •  Awesome photo caption... (0+ / 0-)
    As if that puny rifle could protect this asshat from a drone strike.
    Wait, weren't we against the military flying armed drones over domestic soil?
    Weren't we against each federal department getting it's own militaristic armed force?
    Weren't we against the increasing militarization of state and local police forces?

    If we are against military gear being handed out to every tom dick and harry federal agency or gang of cops, then where are those drone strikes mentioned in the caption going to come from?

  •  Our government packs more heat (0+ / 0-)

    than al Qaeda and the Taliban as well.  Right wing extremists clearly lack the will and organization to sustain any sort of credible insurrection, but it would be a mistake to assume that they couldn't acquire the capacity to do so.  So laugh now, but keep watch.

  •  For that matter... (0+ / 0-)

    the author forgot to point out the government has plenty of toys they've developed to use against others who don't agree with them which are non-lethal. While it is true that our government packs heavier heat than anything these doofuses can ever own....it would be more funny to watch these geniuses soil or do other things to themselves than watching them attempt to run away from drones or other lethal methods. These lethal methods would draw non-followers to feel sorry for them. Watching them piss/crap/vomit all over themselves would be fodder for jokes as long as the Internet is available to show them doing this to themselves.

  •  There are very few more overt signs of (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    reasonablegunsplz

    cowardice and fear than to arm yourself. If ever there is to be a culture war, the gun nut--some who strap up in the morning and wear a gun all day--is to must be led to see that brandishing arms is the sign of a weakling. Secure people, even courageous ones don't carry guns.

    "Education Is Not the Filling of a Pail, But the Lighting of a Fire" W.B. Yeats

    by RareBird0 on Sat May 31, 2014 at 11:52:58 AM PDT

  •  Stupid Gun Dorks are Idiots (0+ / 0-)

    Going for maximum redundancy?

  •  Don't particularly see the value (0+ / 0-)

    of labeling gun advocates dorks and idiots, because then you start to sound like them, but you've got a ways to go before you sound as  irrational and scary as the conversation going on over the article on "The Hill", updating the actions taken in the House in the last several days on guns.

    The headline is merely "The House Takes Action on Guns", but it's brought out a whole load of pretty ugly trolls.

    Pretty certain that some of them are frothing at the mouth, and they're certainly not in the mood to discuss differences of opinion.

    Stop by,  take a look, offer them some of your insight.

    It's an education that serves to further convinces me that there are many undiagnosed people who should not have access to weapons of any sort.

  •  You might be a Red-Neck (0+ / 0-)

    You might be a Red-Neck

  •  One problem with your article (0+ / 0-)

    It has come out in recent months that gun owners are avoiding or lying about guns in their homes to avoid being labelled or having their houses flagged for when the gun-grabbers win.

  •  The extended "organ" (0+ / 0-)

    I have always believed along with many other women that any man who had purchased a weapon did so to make themselves feel more masculine. As far as we were concerned it demised their masculinity because they felt an object could make them so.

    Many of the men I have known who owned a weapon were either short, not as successful as some of the friends they had grown up with, failed in relationships because of the Napolianic Complex they were dealing with. With all of that going on in their PHYCHY its easy to see where anger would build up over time a any number of disasters would occur.

    The horrific of those is the deaths of their own children who happened upon their weapons and either hurt or killed themselves or their neighborhood friends because they played with those weapons. Some of these fathers thought it was funny to have their young son and even daughters hold the weapon and pretend they were shooting someone, one little three year old in a town next to ours was killed because the father did just that while pointing the gun at his wife. They woke up one morning with the three year old pointing the gun at her mother and laughing saying "Look Daddy! I"m pointing the gun at Mommy! Isn't it funny????

    A few days later the father left the gun on a table near the front door while he took a shower to get ready for work so he wouldn't forget. He was home alone with the little girl and her 18 month old son. She picked up the weapon and shot her head off. He was arrested for not securing the weapon and their lives are forever changed. This man was a white man who is 5'7" tall.

    This happens on an average of 10 times a week around the country, yet these short gun nuts never think this a me thing will happen to them....until it does.

    All I am trying to say is that a weapon does not make you appear to be more of a man. It makes you less than what ever image you are going for. Maybe if you were more sensitive to others feelings and took the focus off of yourself you would find a more understanding and positive reaction to you as a man then you ever thought you would have. ... And no more people would die from your purist to appear more masculine. What ever the reason is that caused you to purchase a weapon will not help your inner fears. It only seems to exacerbate them.

  •  Finally I see it somewhere else. I have been as... (0+ / 0-)

    Finally I see it somewhere else. I have been asking gun nuts for a long time now when they claim being prepared to defend themselves from the government. Government means tanks, drones, Seal Team 6 etc... what do you have at your house? They can never answer. Only stare blankly back at thier obviously lacking ability to actually do it.

  •  gun nuts (0+ / 0-)

    I agree.  I am not a psychologist but I have heard that most of these people are male, most do not have a woman companion in their lives, and they are not getting laid!
      Yes, the gun is their penis.  This is their way of temporarily getting rid of their sexual frustration.

  •  Small Point of Correction (0+ / 0-)

    Winchester, Remington, and Ruger are brands/companies. AR-15 is a particular model of weapon. All those companies make AR-15s in several different variants.

    It is entirely possible to carry an AR-15 and at the same time be carrying  a Winchester, Remington, or Ruger. In fact it's highly likely that some of the weapons those people are carrying were made by those companies. They're typically a lot cheaper than an Armalite or a Colt. Not as reliable though.

  •  "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar" -- Freud. (0+ / 0-)

    It isn't about penises.  It's about a real or perceived social powerlessness.

    The guns are a way of saying, "Listen to me -- or else!"

    When do we stop the ridicule of/attacks on maleness -- which attacks contribute to that sense of powerlessness?

    This is the country of those three great rights: freedom of conscience, freedom of speech, and the wisdom never to exercise either of them. -- Mark Twain.

    by JJustin on Sat May 31, 2014 at 11:05:10 PM PDT

    •  The Dark Side Defined (0+ / 0-)

      If what these people do is about trying to feel powerful, they might want to take a lesson or three from Star Wars, the stuff on the dark side of the Force might be particularly useful for them. Real power comes from within, what you do with a gun, or any other weapon for that matter, is a measure of one's understanding of the idea of power. These guys have more power than they know what to do with, and that's dangerous.

      •  How does making a clichéd Freudian link between (0+ / 0-)

        guns and penises -- which is a disparagement, a denigration, a dehumanization of maleness  -- accomplish any of that?

        "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar." -- Freud.

        What's dangerous is the dehumanization of others -- in this instance armed men -- by those who at the same time profess to be opposed to dehumanization.

        So we see those who object to being "objectified," and reduced to "body parts," doing precisely that to those they accuse of doing that.

        Contemptuous ridicule by the deaf is not discourse; but it is dangerous.  It alienates.  And it further alienates those who are already alienated.

        This is the country of those three great rights: freedom of conscience, freedom of speech, and the wisdom never to exercise either of them. -- Mark Twain.

        by JJustin on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 12:30:10 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  The Real Problem (0+ / 0-)

          I promise you, those people are only minimally influenced by the whole penis-gun thing. They either believe their own stuff, meaning what really pushes them away is talk of stuff like gun control, sensible or otherwise. Or they're the con artists and they're not the type to care what other people think of them.

          I do think that it's kind of silly to think that people typically carry weapons to make themselves feel better because they're unhappy about the size of their genitalia. I don't think saying it or spreading the idea does a whole lot of harm though.

          There's a lot that's been said about the similarity of imagery between something like a sword or a spear, and a phallus, but the fact is that those weapons are simply shaped in the most effective manner to kill a human being. The Freudian idea of a symbolic link of phallus to weapon is best applied to literature where some writers do indeed use things like weapons or towers as phallic imagery.

          But this meme isn't really affecting anyone. The people who have weapons for legitimate self defense purposes don't concern themselves with ideas like that, and neither do crazies or con artists. It might as well be incoherent babble to them.

          •  I'm not talking about "those people"; my criticism (0+ / 0-)

            is of those who engage in the ridicule, the dehumanization, while at the same time professing to be opposed to dehumanization.

            Beyond the hypocrisy it is unproductive and destructive.

            As for Freud: modern psychology has moved beyond those oversimplifying cliches.

            This is the country of those three great rights: freedom of conscience, freedom of speech, and the wisdom never to exercise either of them. -- Mark Twain.

            by JJustin on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 01:15:45 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Equivocation (0+ / 0-)

              Ridicule and dehumanization aren't the same thing. What I'm trying to say is that there is literally no one out there that is affected by that variety of insult in any meaningful way. If you want to talk dehumanization, that's not something that's done to the attacked group, that's something that's done to the minds of the people observing the attacked group. And this group may very well be dehumanized in the eyes of others. This is not necessarily a good or bad thing. It just is.

              •  Nonsense -- (0+ / 0-)

                "Ridicule and dehumanization aren't the same thing."

                The one can lead to the other, and that is what it does in this context, exactly as intended.  The gun-nuts aren't humans -- certainly aren't equal to "us" -- that need to be understood if one is to have any chance of persuading them.

                there is literally no one out there that is affected by that variety of insult in any meaningful way.
                "[T]that variety of insult"!?  Insult is insult; and it is not the prerogative of the insulter -- except as arrogant presumption -- to determine how those at whom the insults are aimed are or are not affected thereby.  Insulting others shuts down communication and alienates them.  Those doing the insulting are responsible for the insults, and have a share in the consequences.
                If you want to talk dehumanization, that's not something that's done to the attacked group, that's something that's done to the minds of the people observing the attacked group.
                Tell that the the Japanese-Americans who were interred during WW II.
                And this group may very well be dehumanized in the eyes of others. This is not necessarily a good or bad thing. It just is.
                Again, tell that to the Japanese-American internees.  Better, tell it to the African-American victims of lynching.

                This is the country of those three great rights: freedom of conscience, freedom of speech, and the wisdom never to exercise either of them. -- Mark Twain.

                by JJustin on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 02:14:23 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

  •  Gun NUTS (0+ / 0-)

        Here's just a word from an 65 years young Vietnam vet.  (Notice... I didn't say, "a word to the wise"!)  Why didn't you just pull your "real" guns" out of your pants and piss down on "the government" in Nevada?  Hard to find, huh?  As for you "don't mess with Texans" you picked a fight with a man who fought for your rights!!!  And your right is NOT to carry your enlarged "penises" around and scare the hell out of everyone!! And to both of you "gangs" in Texas and Nevada...... GROW UP!  Oh!  That's right ....... it was only piss hard-ons!  Do you honestly think you got away with something?  Do you actually think "real" "Americans" are all behind you?  We REAL Americans despise and feel sorry for you and your ignorance.  They have ALL YOUR FACES ON CAMERA!  One by one, they'll get you, try you, and lock you up!  Then you won't have those "penis extensions" you pointed at "the government"!  There will be big ones right behind you!  Just bend over, boys, and the hard-timers will do the rest!!!  Don't you lunatics know.....???  YOU ARE THE GOVERNMENT!!  Why don't you just mind your own business?  I take it you DO have families.  If you have a problem.... VOTE!!!  You are FREE!!  You were pointing those "John Wayne" guns at yourselves!  Tell me...... you do masturbate to his movies.  Come on....... you can tell me!  I won't tell a soul!!!  DUM-ASSES!!

  •  Who do you think he's getting ready to shoot? (0+ / 0-)

    That guy in the picture with the rifle looking over a crowd of people? The guy that righties like Slanthead and Fatso Limbaugh and other kooks would call a hero and a patriot? He is getting ready to fucking shoot and kill people, people who the righties think it's perfectly ok to shoot and kill. If we don't want to have a government where if you have enough guns then your above the law then that guy, and also the guy in that other picture (the one prone on the ground) need to be shoot and killed if they follow through on their original intentions, which is to shoot and kill federal agents. These are not patriots or heroes. The feds need to deal with these people and they need to deal with them the exact same way they'd deal with them if they were in the inner city

  •  I Have Nothing Against (0+ / 0-)

    responsible gun owners who want to protect their families at home and do some hunting and target practice. Otherwise, these pathetic Cowboys and Rambos are morons and buffoons. They are a danger to society. Hopefully, someone will feel threatened by them and take them out. Turnabout is fair play.

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