Skip to main content

I just went to look something up in a diary I wrote Saturday for This Week in the War on Women - I wanted to share a link in a comment.

Now it isn't really very long between Saturday and Wednesday; though we do republish relevant diaries throughout the week, I didn't think it would take long. But I found myself scrolling through miles of text in what was not really a large number of diaries.

It took that long because several of these diaries were long and all written in the intro section of the diary.

With the advent of DK4 many of the restrictions on diaries were lifted. We can now write more than one diary a day, for one, and our into is not limited to three paragraphs. Now, I appreciate not having to pare down my intro sections, and I used to get very annoyed when I'd get a message saying that I had too many words. But it served a purpose.

Especially with groups.

I belong to a number of groups, and am administrator of two. As administrator, I check the queue regularly to see if some diaries are there to post to the group, and to go through the diaries on the group list. The intro section appears on lists, and this is where the problem arises.

I would like to ask diarists to consider this when writing. If you don't mind other Kossacks having to scroll through pages and pages of text when they check out your diary list, so that they give up after only one of two diaries, that's fine, but you are losing readers for more of your writing.

But it's inconsiderate for those of us who might want to republish your diaries to various groups, and to readers who look on group diary lists to see what's new on the relevant subject. That's one way you can attract new readers who might not otherwise see your work. Intro sections that go on for pages discourage browsers from looking further, and can keep them from discovering other writers as well.

So please, use reasonable thought deciding how much of your diaries belong above the orange squiggle so that readers want to continue, and if they decide to check out more of your writing, doesn't discourage them.

Thanks.

6:50 PM PT: Thanks to all of you who read this and made suggestions for quicker ways to find things - that will help in future. And for an interesting discussion of a subject I wasn't sure anyone would care about. Perhaps the solution lies in changing the larger section to "Body of Text" or some such.

6:59 PM PT: And changing the title is a good idea.

Originally posted to ramara on Wed May 28, 2014 at 11:41 AM PDT.

Also republished by New Diarists.

EMAIL TO A FRIEND X
Your Email has been sent.
You must add at least one tag to this diary before publishing it.

Add keywords that describe this diary. Separate multiple keywords with commas.
Tagging tips - Search For Tags - Browse For Tags

?

More Tagging tips:

A tag is a way to search for this diary. If someone is searching for "Barack Obama," is this a diary they'd be trying to find?

Use a person's full name, without any title. Senator Obama may become President Obama, and Michelle Obama might run for office.

If your diary covers an election or elected official, use election tags, which are generally the state abbreviation followed by the office. CA-01 is the first district House seat. CA-Sen covers both senate races. NY-GOV covers the New York governor's race.

Tags do not compound: that is, "education reform" is a completely different tag from "education". A tag like "reform" alone is probably not meaningful.

Consider if one or more of these tags fits your diary: Civil Rights, Community, Congress, Culture, Economy, Education, Elections, Energy, Environment, Health Care, International, Labor, Law, Media, Meta, National Security, Science, Transportation, or White House. If your diary is specific to a state, consider adding the state (California, Texas, etc). Keep in mind, though, that there are many wonderful and important diaries that don't fit in any of these tags. Don't worry if yours doesn't.

You can add a private note to this diary when hotlisting it:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from your hotlist?
Are you sure you want to remove your recommendation? You can only recommend a diary once, so you will not be able to re-recommend it afterwards.
Rescue this diary, and add a note:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from Rescue?
Choose where to republish this diary. The diary will be added to the queue for that group. Publish it from the queue to make it appear.

You must be a member of a group to use this feature.

Add a quick update to your diary without changing the diary itself:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary?
(The diary will be removed from the site and returned to your drafts for further editing.)
(The diary will be removed.)
Are you sure you want to save these changes to the published diary?

Comment Preferences

  •  Agreed (14+ / 0-)

    I think I've written exactly ONE of my over 400 diaries entirely above the squiggle, and that's because all I had to say about the subject was three sentences.

    Seneca Falls, Selma, Stonewall

    by Dave in Northridge on Wed May 28, 2014 at 11:46:02 AM PDT

  •  Would just looking at "Diaries (list)" help? (12+ / 0-)

    When I'm looking for one I remember, I sometimes go for that, in hopes the title will get me there.

    I live under the bridge to the 21st Century.

    by Crashing Vor on Wed May 28, 2014 at 11:47:50 AM PDT

    •  Yes, there's the "Diaries" link (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ramara, trkingmomoe

      that lists by title/link. There's also the "Comments" link right there on the right in your little "Welcome Back" box, that takes you right to all the comments you've made. Including tip jars in diaries you've written. And each of those also has a link to the diary in which those comments appeared.

      Lordy. This is a silly complaint.

      There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. - Will Rogers

      by Joieau on Wed May 28, 2014 at 02:10:49 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  No, it's not a silly complaint, ... (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Joieau, nomandates, ramara, trkingmomoe

        especially to readers who approach DK daily from this portal, then are forced to sometimes scroll down through miles of photographs, transcript texts, etc., before getting to the following diary.  A limit as to how much of a diary can appear above the fold would be a God-send to us.

        "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the universe." -- Albert Einstein

        by Neuroptimalian on Wed May 28, 2014 at 04:12:59 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Ah, so. That is doing things (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Joy of Fishes, blueoasis, ramara

          the hard way. This is the one you want. dailykos dot com slash diaries. I do election diary mining, sometimes have to pick up shifts from days ago. This gets me there much faster. This 'portal' is easier than the "section" one you cite (less to type), just a list of links by title, date and time.

          If I'm looking for a specific comment that I replied to, going to "Comments" in the profile box is the easiest way I've found. Then click "parent" if that's the one I want. But I'm on a desktop, not an iPhone or iPad...

          There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. - Will Rogers

          by Joieau on Wed May 28, 2014 at 05:06:08 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  How does that work in a group? (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ramara, Joieau, Simplify

            .................expect us......................... FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

            by Roger Fox on Wed May 28, 2014 at 06:01:52 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  I usually do (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Joieau, mettle fatigue

            go through my comments list, and don't know why I went to the group first this time. But the group list has bothered me for some time, and this time just inspired this rant.

            We need a world in which we ask "What's happened to you?" more and "What's wrong with you?" less. (From a comment by Kossack nerafinator)

            by ramara on Wed May 28, 2014 at 06:57:32 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Hmmm... (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              ramara, mettle fatigue

              I've never used the "Groups" links/lists. Do belong to some, but those posts are in the general "Diaries" list if I need to find them for some reason. It looks like the group list is the same as your own list (under "Diaries" in the right-side profile box just above "Comments." I do get a list with all the above the squiggle stuff like you've described. And yes, it's tedious to scroll through for a particular diary, but I comment too much to other people's diaries to have 'em neatly listed on the "Comments" page.

              If I really need to find a diary from months ago that somebody else wrote - and don't care to page-back on the list-list - I'll search for it. That takes some clicks to refine, but is faster than paging back if I know title keywords or author's handle.

              Maybe it would be worthwhile to suggest to Elfling or Markos that DK5 (coming soon to a computer near you!) include a plain link-list available from the main group list. Of course, not being a programmer genius type, I have no idea if that's easy or hard... §;o)

              There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. - Will Rogers

              by Joieau on Thu May 29, 2014 at 08:19:35 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  It would be easier (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Joieau, mettle fatigue

                just to change the heading on the larger field to read Body of text or something like that, and take away the optional.

                We need a world in which we ask "What's happened to you?" more and "What's wrong with you?" less. (From a comment by Kossack nerafinator)

                by ramara on Thu May 29, 2014 at 02:40:06 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  isn't the plain list already "Diaries(List)"? (0+ / 0-)

                That's what i use nearly all the time, hardly ever scroll down any group's mainpage.  

                In both of the DK group directories that I compiled, i used that link as the access link to each group, calling it "Diary List".  

                Of course, if you look at the url, it's called "posting history", but since the link is named {forgive the repetition}

                Diaries (List)
                at the top of every group's main page (i.e., the page you get when you click on a group in your own welcome back box, or when you click on a group's name alone most other places) and it's at the top of every individual kosak's diary pages ('tho not the profile page which you get when clicking on a person's name in, for example, a comment or just below the title of the person's diary, go figure) i'm not troubled by the length of anyone's introductory section, 'tho I certainly see that searching by scrolling down the main pages and diary pages makes a long intro section a considerable irritant.

                My thinking is that the fact that the initial section of edit mode is called "Introduction" should not force the writer to conform to the idea of a super-brief newspaper-like summary or, as in television, "a hook", if that approach is really not suitable for the specific diary. Many forms of nonfiction are written in DK, not newspaper-type articles alone, so I'm OK with a fair amount of latitude as to how each of the edit-mode sections are used.

  •  Above the scroll should work like twitter. (7+ / 0-)

    Figure out what you need to say in 50 words or you'll be cut off midsent (click)

  •  Above the orange should be one paragraph (19+ / 0-)

    and NOT repeated below the orange.

    "let's talk about that" uid 92953

    by VClib on Wed May 28, 2014 at 11:50:37 AM PDT

    •  can't stress the "and NOT repeated" part enough (17+ / 0-)

      talk about a pet peeve...like nails on a chalkboard, that is!

      Please don't dominate the rap, Jack, if you got nothin' new to say - Grateful Dead

      by Cedwyn on Wed May 28, 2014 at 12:10:17 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The material above the doodle (10+ / 0-)

      is best used either as a hook or as cliff notes.

      In the Firearms Law and Policy group we cover some material that is very dry and boring for most people. When we put cliff notes above the fold, we help those who merely glance to learn something about gun law and policy, even if they don't have time or interest to dig into the details.

      2thanks has taught me to never waste the rollover. That's the 2.5 lines that show when you hover the mouse before you click. Ideally the title and the rollover compliment each other, serving as the hook. They set up the intro to serve as the cliff notes.

      "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.” — William Arthur Ward

      by LilithGardener on Wed May 28, 2014 at 12:47:30 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I hate that. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ramara, VClib

      .................expect us......................... FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

      by Roger Fox on Wed May 28, 2014 at 06:02:23 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  "Should"? (0+ / 0-)

      All nonfiction writing "should" conform to the same layout regardless of the inherent nature of the writing?

      Conformity in Daily Kos...  I didn't expect that.

      •  It's not just abstract conformity (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mettle fatigue

        Writing has forms, and while each piece has a logic of its own, in general there comes a break in the narrative at some point about a third of the way through or less which is a logical place to move to the larger field.

        We need a world in which we ask "What's happened to you?" more and "What's wrong with you?" less. (From a comment by Kossack nerafinator)

        by ramara on Fri May 30, 2014 at 10:42:50 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Perhaps often true, but (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ramara

          there are more kinds of writing going on in the dk universe, horatio, than is suited by that generality.

          several months ago, in curiosity about draft capacity, i wrote a few chapters of a novellete all in one dk draft, roughly the equivalent of 35 pages, all in the top section, and it didn't bork the dailykos.  those chapters were considerably less than 1/3 of what the finished piece would have been, yet that 1/3 wouldn't meet the need you're citing.  I'd estimate that most of 1 chapter, or possibly the whole first chapter of most longform fiction is intro and that would still be more than you want.

          Should we advocate to decrease dk's potential for variety of writing in order to force a procrustean result that lops off the human potential of dk users writing here? I'm guessing you'd said no.  

          As examples of other material that actually puts a lot less than 1/3 in the top section yet that 1/3 is still more lines total than you seem to prefer,  would you see worthwhile utility to experienced users of the 2 DK directories I compiled, in those users being able to skip easily past the introductory and instructional paragraphs of the top section (which pretty much conform to 1970s conventions for prefatory material in my professional line of work, or at least did back then — everything changes eventually) in order to get straight to the listings to search for what they need?  How about the utility to the maintainer of those directories (which may not always be me) of being able to easily integrate new data into those directories? You can find WhereTheKogsAre at my sig link, of course, and the other is "Health-Medical&Related DK Groups" at the bottom of my blogroll.  Obviously not a lot of work of this kind is done in DK, at least not so far, but there are enough varieties of work that's not magazine-style writing that these directories might stand in for, just as an extreme example.

          Let me know if you decide these directories would be more utilitarian to the full potential range of users if only the first paragraph or two of the prose were in the top section and the rest in the extended/option, making necessary a second visual search for the beginning of the listings rather than just using the orangepeel as the sole break between prose and listings.

          or might you agree that, in these admittedly extreme examples, all the prefatory material really does belong in the top section so that experienced users can leap past what they've already learned, in order to reach the listings with little visual search strain.

          As KosA Admin and a Californian, as well as to answer questions of others, I use both the directories a lot, and before I finalized their layout I first experimented with various models to see what would seem to work most effectively, the models being drawn from my professional working life. I also experimented to see what would best facilitate integration of new data for the benefit of users without strain on the integrator.  That's how these directories ended up laid out as they are.

          I take your point about the majority of articles in DK. I'm not saying the point is invalid for most. Just that there is currently a fair amount of work in DK which, even if less extremely than these directories, still differs enough from the blogging conventions here that "hook"/ "teaser" intros — which have nothing to do with serious news journalism in which the initial paragraph supplies the bare-bones facts, NOT enticement - I certainly hope anyone serious about written news values facts far above seduction, even if the conventions of blogging are more akin to the critical first 3 minutes in Nielsen television ratings and movie trailers— don't exist at all in that material by its nature.

          thanks for your reply.  looking forward to another if your difficult schedule allows a look at the directories.

          •  Would that last qualify (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            mettle fatigue

            as cliff notes?

            There are exceptions to every rule, and you know I am not inflexible. But this happens far too often for your argument to hold.

            And if you missed it, I said I don't want the old strictures back; they were a pain and far too restricting.

            When I am publishing a diary that doesn't lend itself to the normal format, I'm more likely to write an introductory sentence or two in the intro, and the entire text in the main body.

            Now I'm going to check out your link.

            We need a world in which we ask "What's happened to you?" more and "What's wrong with you?" less. (From a comment by Kossack nerafinator)

            by ramara on Sat May 31, 2014 at 06:58:52 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Okay, checked out your link (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              mettle fatigue

              and found nothing outrageous. The intro section is a bit long, but not ridiculously so, and the format is logical.

              My complaint is with diaries that cover a news event or something like that, and use the intro section for description and photos of the event - in other words, the whole story.

              I wrote this diary sitting in a sandwich shop. I had been browsing and wanted to comment in a diary and give the diarist a link to something I thought would interest her. I'm asking for consideration, not a hard and fast rule.

              We need a world in which we ask "What's happened to you?" more and "What's wrong with you?" less. (From a comment by Kossack nerafinator)

              by ramara on Sat May 31, 2014 at 07:08:49 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Ah, you were talking about news writing! (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                ramara

                After I had finished writing that overly long question/comment, it occurred to me that even essay writing doesn't always fit the short-intro layout.

                Perhaps ironically, I too would like to see more of the topical diaries in DK strive to meet classic journalist or at least essay format because of the inherent self-critiquing. I'd also like to see clarity and factuality replace cleverness. And a 12-foot snowpack in the Sierra Nevadas.

                I don't think ego and a taste for audience 'ratings' is why the western states are in drought 2 decades now, but aside from that...

                Two comments up, your title began "would that last qualify as cliff notes?"  I can't answer because i'm not sure what you referred to ... unless you meant the whole comment I had just made!!  ;-)

                Thanks VERY much for the reply, the more considering all that's been happening lately. Greatly appreciated.

  •  I figured the intro (9+ / 0-)

    was a teaser to draw you into clicking on the diary. And as such, should be short and pungent, something that gives you enough to know what realm the diary comes from but leaves you curious about where it will go from there.
    As a copywriter for ads and signs, I have a twelve word rule. Any more than that, you lose 'em. So pick those twelve words carefully.

    If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

    by CwV on Wed May 28, 2014 at 11:52:13 AM PDT

    •  Certainly a teaser, if the diary is news or enter- (0+ / 0-)

      tainment. Many readers insist on being "drawn" in, teased, hooked, excited or stimulated into reading.  Others may be more engaged by clarity or other merits.

      In some circumstances, "punch it up" is appropriate to the material. In others, thoughtful prose is more suitable.

      •  But you can invite (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mettle fatigue

        someone in using thoughtful and elegant prose. This isn't a newspaper or an ad, but writing is usually better for some form of organization.

        We need a world in which we ask "What's happened to you?" more and "What's wrong with you?" less. (From a comment by Kossack nerafinator)

        by ramara on Fri May 30, 2014 at 10:45:25 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  "Some" form of organization, certainly, (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ramara

          just not the same form for all writing regardless of the nature of the writing itself.  S'all I'm saying. Suit the organization to the nature of the material, not the other way around.

          At this point, I'm wondering if the decades of decreased education funding have something to do with the problem... and of course I'd conclude "yes".

          •  I would have to agree there (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            mettle fatigue

            Kids just don't learn writing any more - neither the mechanics of writing, nor effective rhetoric, nor clear analytic and comparative writing.

            We need a world in which we ask "What's happened to you?" more and "What's wrong with you?" less. (From a comment by Kossack nerafinator)

            by ramara on Sat May 31, 2014 at 07:37:41 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Good writing seems to proceed from XLnt read- (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              ramara

              ing —and a lot of it&mdsah; more than from being taught the rules and required to do a bit of practice as homework.  

              My father wrote magnificently, and was a much-appreciated contributor to the journals of his profession and to certain heritage journals.  Being born in 1909, he was given an education far more resembling the "classical" that informed the thinking and writing of America's founders (for example), than current education currently seems (at least in Calif) to resemble HIS.  

              By some coincidence, i replied to a lay-rabbi friend's email about the interpetation of chinuch/education in this week's parsha saying his conception of it as pouring into children's heads the information and ideas we want them to have has been a proven failed strategy in American education postWW2, and that subject matter must serve the entraining of intellectual skills (reasoning, capacity to explore ideas in depth, capacity to stick self-disciplinedly to a tough investigation without losing energy simply struggling with the fact of how tough it is, etc).

              Otherwise you end up with minimally intellectual adults who are so subject to the phenomenon stated by Patton and famously quoted by LBJ — "if you gett'em by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow"&mdahs; which means that anyone who can exert leverage on that minimally intellectual adult can "change" their mind for them, and the next leverager can change it again, and the next again... Kids who get rewarded for parrotting their teachers' and parents' views learn to parrot, not to think.

              bit of a digression there, but perhaps relevent.

              •  I think we must learn (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                mettle fatigue

                how to read and think critically, and writing is a big help along the way. I do think basic writing mechanics should be there early, but the rest comes from being able to read and recognize good expository, comparative, and argumentative writing, and being able to discuss ideas. These days I'm not even sure kids are learning to recognize ideas as opposed to opinions.

                We need a world in which we ask "What's happened to you?" more and "What's wrong with you?" less. (From a comment by Kossack nerafinator)

                by ramara on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 01:06:43 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

  •  You're right, but mostly whistling in the wind, (10+ / 0-)

    because this diary won't have much impact on all the diarists at DKos. Though persuading even a few readers in the right direction may raise their thoughtfulness about style and readability.

    There are usually many ways to search for things, and choosing the fastest makes the search much simpler. In this case, it seems like you could have clicked on your name (leading to your profile page, and last 6 diaries), then clicked on Saturday's diary, and got there in two clicks.

    "Every man has a right to utter what he thinks truth" Samuel Johnson

    by Brecht on Wed May 28, 2014 at 11:56:54 AM PDT

  •  Very true. (8+ / 0-)

    And, while we're on the subject of intros, the other extreme bugs me, as well - when I want to see a bit of what's behind the title and when I hover over it, there's nothing there.  The intro is blank.

    "Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar." ~ Edward R. Murrow

    by CJB on Wed May 28, 2014 at 11:59:27 AM PDT

  •  That sounds like a fair idea to me. (5+ / 0-)

    Thanks for doing such good work, too. I'm an administrator for most of the groups I'm in but, to be honest, I don't do shit in them.

    Prettiness is not a rent you pay for occupying a space marked 'female'. -- Diana Vreeland

    by Colorado is the Shiznit on Wed May 28, 2014 at 12:04:58 PM PDT

  •  I had to have my pet peeve put to sleep. (8+ / 0-)

    The sun's not yellow, it's chicken. B. Dylan

    by bgblcklab1 on Wed May 28, 2014 at 12:08:51 PM PDT

  •  Normally (6+ / 0-)

    I try to equalize both sections in diaries I write, but you have changed my mind with your most excellent point.

    For fastest searching however I click on the diary "list" rather than the blog view.  It's helpful when there are many diaries.

    Thanks for the insight.

    There already is class warfare in America. Unfortunately, the rich are winning.

    by Puddytat on Wed May 28, 2014 at 12:08:56 PM PDT

  •  I may be missing something, but (9+ / 0-)

    why not go to your profile:
    http://www.dailykos.com/...

    and simply click on the diary:
    http://www.dailykos.com/...

    I don't understand why you had to use more than two clicks to find it. I'm kinda groggy at the moments, so forgive me if I'm missing something obvious.

    Dick Cheney 2/14/10: "I was a big supporter of waterboarding"

    by Bob Love on Wed May 28, 2014 at 12:10:19 PM PDT

  •  some diaries have templates (9+ / 0-)

    that make it more convenient to put certain things above the fold and others below

    otherwise, I am with Brecht--when looking for something I myself wrote, I go to my own page and my own diaries or my own comments.  

    or i search using google

    Politics is like driving. To go backward put it in R. To go forward put it in D.
    DEMAND CREATES JOBS!!!
    Drop by The Grieving Room on Monday nights to talk about grief.

    by TrueBlueMajority on Wed May 28, 2014 at 12:18:19 PM PDT

  •  Don't bury the lede. (6+ / 0-)

    Someone else's pet peeve is posting a good argument under a useless title.

    You make a good argument about using the intro as a hook or as an abstract. Too bad many people will skip your diary because the title makes it all about you, instead of about how to structure a useful diary intro.

    That said, I'm glad I bothered and will take your peeve to heart. ;)

    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.” — William Arthur Ward

    by LilithGardener on Wed May 28, 2014 at 12:41:55 PM PDT

    •  Point taken. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      LilithGardener, mettle fatigue

      Title changed. :)

      We need a world in which we ask "What's happened to you?" more and "What's wrong with you?" less. (From a comment by Kossack nerafinator)

      by ramara on Wed May 28, 2014 at 07:14:09 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The Diary title should be a hook (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      LilithGardener, ramara

      giving a reason to want to see what it's about, or alternatively allowing those looking for other topics so skip right on by. Pretty much like a newspaper headline.

      Then the rollover text gives you two lines for the lede. If you can summarize the point of the whole story there, please do. Otherwise give us the most important fact in the lede, and then use the rest of the intro to tell us what the body will be about, with a link if possible. Make sure the intro fits in less than a screen height.

      Back off, man. I'm a logician.—GOPBusters™

      by Mokurai on Wed May 28, 2014 at 11:44:45 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Which device? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ramara
        Make sure the intro fits in less than a screen height.

        "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.” — William Arthur Ward

        by LilithGardener on Thu May 29, 2014 at 06:05:36 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Start with your own (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          LilithGardener, ramara

          Look at the practice of others. You will be able to judge fairly enough which are out of line.

          Keep it to the Golden Ratio, or more simply a Fibonacci ratio, like a 3 x 5 file card (so 20th century, I know), not as high as it is wide. Or the default shape of the electronic notes that you get on various devices. I use Tomboy Notes on Linux.

          Fibonacci ratios, that is ratios of successive numbers in the Fibonacci series, converge to the Golden Ratio, approximately 1.618. Each term of the Fibonacci series after the first two is the sum of the two before it. Thus

          1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89…

          with ratios

          1 2 3/2 5/3 8/5 13/8…

          1 2 1.5 1.666… 1.6 1.625…

          Back off, man. I'm a logician.—GOPBusters™

          by Mokurai on Fri May 30, 2014 at 11:13:31 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  This is the clearest (0+ / 0-)

            explanation of this I have seen. I first learned about it in my high school art history course back in the dark ages when you learned things like that in art history.

            Thanks for enlightening me further.

            We need a world in which we ask "What's happened to you?" more and "What's wrong with you?" less. (From a comment by Kossack nerafinator)

            by ramara on Fri May 30, 2014 at 10:50:44 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  hmm. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    nomandates, The Marti, jayden, ramara

    this is worth a thought. i'm pretty sure I drop the bulk of the text below the fold but I'll make sure I keep doing it.

    Dawkins is to atheism as Rand is to personal responsibility. uid 52583 lol

    by terrypinder on Wed May 28, 2014 at 12:49:36 PM PDT

  •  If it's a diary that you wrote (6+ / 0-)

    simply go to your profile box in the upper right hand corner and access it there. If it's a diary you recommended you can find it the list of diaries that you recommended which is also on the right side of the page. Rarely should you have to scroll through pages of diaries to find one that you participated in whether it was by recommending the diary, posting a comment, or writing it yourself. All those clicks you make are recorded as part of your profile.

    It seems you're not taking advantage of some of the functions provided to you on DKos.

  •  Concur. (5+ / 0-)

    If people click on my diaries I want them to see a bunch of them.

  •  The diary editor labels the second box (4+ / 0-)

    as optional. I treat it that way.

    •  For a specific reason? Or just out of habit? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ramara

      It just seems like ramara has a reasoned argument, while I can't see yours.

      "Every man has a right to utter what he thinks truth" Samuel Johnson

      by Brecht on Wed May 28, 2014 at 01:44:15 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Nobody ever said I had to put anything in it. (3+ / 0-)

        The layout of the editor seems to indicate that the site administration doesn't care whether I do or not. I can't see why I have to present any argument beyond that. As other people have pointed out in the comments on this diary there are a number of different approaches to finding diaries and content. I have never run into any problems in looking for them.

        •  I was just trying to understand (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ramara

          but I bring different assumptions to diary-writing than you do. To me, one of the main points of writing diaries is learning how to write better diaries, which implies paying attention to the details in every direction, and making fuller, better use of them.

          I usually write longer diaries than you, so structuring them into sections for clarity and ease of reading is a higher priority. No doubt you're paying attention to details in other directions, and improving on those axes.

          "Every man has a right to utter what he thinks truth" Samuel Johnson

          by Brecht on Wed May 28, 2014 at 02:10:48 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  is a placeholder comment useful 2/use? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Metric Only, nomandates

    decent wages don't eliminate jobs. Republicans eliminate jobs; and workers, and prospects, and then excuse it all and call for more austerity. there is no end to their ignorant, arrogant avarice. only political dinosaurs support their treachery.

    by renzo capetti on Wed May 28, 2014 at 02:31:21 PM PDT

  •  Just a recommendation- retitle your diary. (3+ / 0-)

    Call it something like:
    "Just put a teaser above the orange squiggle, diarists!"

    because I had no idea what your diary was about until I read it all the way through. Good titles are as important as concise headers.

    And THANK you for this advice! I "share your pain"!

  •  Thanks. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ramara

    Used to be each word would scream at me whether it wanted to be on the top or bottom; wore me out.  A year of therapy helped too.

    Best Scientist Ever Predicts Bacon Will Be Element 119 On The Periodic Table

    by dov12348 on Wed May 28, 2014 at 03:49:04 PM PDT

  •  aw shucks, I was hoping/expecting a rant (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ramara, Metric Only

    about how fast the rec'ing period passes these days!

    I often skim, stockpile and go back the next day, because there's just too much to get through on the first pass... but it seems like there's a REALLY SHORT rec'ing window these days, esp. for comments, like, 12 hours or something??? not even 24 hrs! boo, hiss!

    and even author's tip jars go stale within a couple of days, much faster than they used to. at least you can still rec the main diary for, I think?, and unlimited period!

    what the heck is the big rush, anyway?

    "real" work : a job where you wash your hands BEFORE you use the bathroom...

    by chimene on Wed May 28, 2014 at 06:01:09 PM PDT

  •  Starting an intro with a link (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ramara, Metric Only

    fouls up the hover feature when at the recent diary list.

    I nearly always try to keep my intros brief.

    .................expect us......................... FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

    by Roger Fox on Wed May 28, 2014 at 06:09:43 PM PDT

  •  Text limit on the section above the squiggle. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ramara


    I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cow bell!

    by glb3 on Wed May 28, 2014 at 08:21:37 PM PDT

    •  It was very annoying (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Metric Only, mettle fatigue

      when we had it. If your intro was too long, you couldn't move on to the main section until you cut it sufficiently.

      I wouldn't want that feature back. Perhaps just a reminder of what "intro" means?

      We need a world in which we ask "What's happened to you?" more and "What's wrong with you?" less. (From a comment by Kossack nerafinator)

      by ramara on Wed May 28, 2014 at 08:47:37 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  One thing I found odd when ... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ramara, Metric Only

        writing a diary was the section below the squiggle being title 'Extended (Optional)'. Optional? I took this as meaning I could/should write the entire body of my diary above the squiggle, and it would be perfectly fine; having anything below the squiggle...meh.
        Why not 'Intro (short and sweet)' and 'Body (go for it)'?


        I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cow bell!

        by glb3 on Thu May 29, 2014 at 08:43:05 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site