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Purple-eyes twin owls
At Role/Reboot, Soraya Chemaly writes 10 Simple Words Every Girl Should Learn:

I routinely find myself in mixed-gender environments (life) where men interrupt me. Now that I’ve decided to try and keep track, just out of curiosity, it’s quite amazing how often it happens. It’s particularly pronounced when other men are around.

This irksome reality goes along with another—men who make no eye contact. For example, a waiter who only directs information and questions to men at a table, or the man last week who simply pretended I wasn’t part of a circle of five people (I was the only woman). We’d never met before, and barely exchanged 10 words, so it couldn’t have been my not-so-shrinking-violet opinions.

These two ways of establishing dominance in conversation, frequently based on gender, go hand-in-hand with this last one: A woman, speaking clearly and out loud, can say something that no one appears to hear, only to have a man repeat it minutes, maybe seconds later, to accolades and group discussion.

After I wrote about the  gender confidence gap recently, of the 10 items on a list, the one that resonated the most was the issue of whose speech is considered important. In sympathetic response to what I wrote, a person on Twitter sent me a  cartoon in which one woman and five men sit around a conference table. The caption reads, “That’s an excellent suggestion, Miss Triggs. Perhaps one of the men here would like to make it.” I don’t think there is a woman alive who has not had this happen.

The cartoon may seem funny, until you realize exactly how often it  seriously happens. And—as in the cases of  Elizabeth Warren or say,  Brooksley Born—how broadly consequential the impact can be. When you add  race and class to the equation the incidence of this marginalization is even higher.

This suppressing of women’s voices, in case you are trying to figure out what Miss Triggs was wearing or drinking or might have said to provoke this response, is what sexism sounds like.

These behaviors, the interrupting and the over-talking, also happen as the result of difference in status, but gender  rules. For example, male doctors invariably  interrupt patients when they speak, especially female patients but patients rarely interrupt doctors in return. Unless the  doctor is a woman. When that is the case, she interrupts far less and is herself interrupted more. This is also true of senior managers in the workplace. Male bosses are not frequently talked over or stopped by those working for them, especially if they are women; however, female bosses are routinely interrupted by their male subordinates. [...]


Blast from the Past. At Daily Kos on this date in 2012Reward for Obama's college transcripts increases to $20,000, because people are dumb:

One of the wonderful things about Donald Trump is that he's an equal opportunity moron. He doesn't pick just one stupid thing to hitch his inappropriately gilded horse to, he's willing to branch out and opine on lots of stupid things. One of his previous hits was that he "heard" Barack Obama had bad grades in college (that would be in Occidental, not Columbia or Harvard. See, that's an important part of the plot). So how's that little side conspiracy going?

As it turns out, it's still going along just fine in certain circles, thank you very much. And now there's a $20,000 reward for Obama's college transcripts, which according to investibators might show that Obama got middling grades or something?



Tweet of the Day
If #Shinseki resigns then every #AZ Rept and all 41 Senators who voted against #Veterans bill should too! http://t.co/... @iava #VETS
@LOrion



On today's Kagro in the Morning show, Greg Dworkin rounds up today's news. More from Kinsley. Why he's wrong. EPA to regulate emissions by executive authority, and the likely fallout. Terry Lynn Land is terrible. McConnell fares no better. And could Andrew Cuomo be a test case for pulling Hillary left? Want to help Charles Gaba (aka Brainwrap) help MI? Gun news roundup: a public AR-15 whoopsie; WalMart #GunFAIL nearly took out a newborn infant; more bullets fly in Isla Vista. Conclusion of Andrew O'Hehir's "The empire strikes back," and the start of Eben Moglen's "Privacy under attack" set us up for some serious discussion of the national security state.



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Comment Preferences

  •  Joe the Dumber (9+ / 0-)

    ICYMI, here's my open letter response to Joe the Dumber's open letter to the grieving families of the victims of the UC at Santa Barbara massacre, which was linked at Crooks and Liars yesterday.

    JP
    http://www.welcomebacktopottersville.blogspot.com

    Defending bad taste and liberalism since 2005.

    by jurassicpork on Thu May 29, 2014 at 08:32:01 PM PDT

  •  1,027,315 registered users on dKos now. (16+ / 0-)

    Here are the 10 newest registered users on dKos.  Hope to see their comments and diaries here soon!  (If they're not spammers.)

    James8738baw1
    Moitoo
    rickywilson66
    Bradtjy1704 (user #1,027,309: already banned)
    Clairejbr (user #1,027,310: already banned)
    lathropc
    jeanno12 (user #1,027,312: already banned)
    David4161dbz5
    James8406tta6
    Joseph1479qcp8


    And since our society is obsessed with numbers that end in a lot of zeros as milestones, here's a special shoutout to users:
    #1,026,700: Steven1111b (already banned)
    #1,026,800: Fogawi (spammer)
    #1,026,900: johnniebrien (already banned)
    #1,027,000: Daniel7036ese5
    #1,027,100: DesignersInsuranceAgency (spammer)
    #1,027,200: Theodore Abbot
    #1,027,300: Drewrja60

    We've added 665 more users in the last two days.  There's definitely been a recent increase in spammers in the last couple weeks.


    And for your Diary Rescue music pleasure, here's Britney Spears' "I'm Not a Girl, Not Yet a Woman".

  •  I wonder what the Right Wing Noise Machine (12+ / 0-)

    would say if the Chicago Bears changed their name to the 'Chicago Crackers'?

    The Terrifying Domino Theory of Anti-Racism:

    This week, fifty U.S. senators signed a letter urging the Washington Redskins to change their name, because it is a "racial slur." Needless to say, conservatives are outraged. If you start doing away with racism, where does it end??

    Daniel Henninger—who, as the deputy editor of the Wall Street Journal's editorial page, is the official representative of America's Upper Class Republican White Guy demographic—today takes on the outrageous act of these elected leaders who asked an incredibly wealthy private citizen to consider voluntarily withdrawing an incredibly offensive slur from atop his franchise. By asking a sports team to not name itself after a racial slur, Henninger writes, Sen. Harry Reid "has become a one-man, First Amendment wrecking crew." (As you know, the First Amendment of the US Constitution prohibits senators from writing letters.)

    It's not just one racial slur; if these equality-mongering senators get their way, we could witness a Racism Domino Theory:

    Should Commissioner Goodell buckle beneath Harry Reid's gang tackle, make no mistake: That same Senate letter would go straight to Major League Baseball Commissioner Bud Selig, ordering him, under the Sterling Precedent, to kill the Cleveland Indians' logo, Chief Wahoo. Were Mr. Selig to do so, there of course would be riots in the streets of Cleveland, whose single most beloved citizen is . . . Chief Wahoo.

    http://gawker.com/...

    “I would like to get rid of the homophobes, sexists, and racists in our audience. I know they're out there and it really bothers me.” ― Kurt Cobain

    by Jeff Y on Thu May 29, 2014 at 08:37:35 PM PDT

    •  Most people like themselves more than other people (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      LinSea, Jeff Y

      They are perhaps selfish as regards their interests, their perspective on things. There may be exceptions to that as regards people we are big fans of, or who the media are big fans of but in general many of us expect other people want to hear the incredibly interesting things we have to say more than their own less well informed opinions even as they expect the same of us which can be a limiting factor in conversation where people are waiting for one another to stop talking and not listening at all until they "get a chance to get a word in edgewise".

      Bloggers may be selfish in obeying the pecking order of who or what has the most to offer me; bosses, doctors, people on tv or some other media I'm plugged into, what I'm doing right now; in real life, but generally here we can't tell by your handle whether or not you are any of the above.

      "la vida no vale nada un lugar solita" "The Limits of Control Jim Jarmusch

      by rktect on Fri May 30, 2014 at 03:15:06 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  MSNBC going extra slow now. (9+ / 0-)

    For some reason, MSNBC's site is suddenly EXTREMELY slow in loading videos.  Just look at how long it takes to load these on your computer.  They're taking forever on mine.  All this started yesterday.  Is it Edward Snowden fans flooding the bandwidth or something??  But once the picture appears, it should work normally.  As such, I've only included a few tonight.

    So Chris talked about the VA scandal with Rep. Jim Himes (D-CT) and Jon Soltz.  He then looked at the right-wing war against Michelle Obama's healthy school lunches program with Marion Nestle, Karen Finney, and Josh Barro.

    Rachel's opening monster segment about Texas and fracking isn't online.  So here she is talking with retired Gen. Russel Honoré about Louisiana becoming a wholly owned subsidiary of the oil industry under Gov. Bobby Jindal (R).

    Michael Eric Dyson filled in for Ed tonight, and talked about the disconnect Mitch McConnell has between Obamacare and Kynect with Rep. Jan Schakowsky (D-IL) Corey Hebert, and Wendell Potter.

    I can't even find the other clips because my computer keeps freezing just trying to load them.  Thanks, MSNBC.  It's like you DON'T want people to watch your stuff online.  Thanks a lot.

  •  One of most annoying things about the subject... (30+ / 0-)

    ...discussed by Chemaly in her piece excerpted here tonight is that women started publicly complaining about the matter half a century ago. Yet it continues. Not that the problem only started that long ago. But women began then to make a point of it. And still some people don't get it.

    Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

    by Meteor Blades on Thu May 29, 2014 at 08:42:55 PM PDT

    •  It's endemic. It's getting worse. (13+ / 0-)

      Our culture has done a truly Wierd thing, both sexualizing and infantalizing women.  I watched a woman walk into a meeting wearing the new, hot shoes: fuck-me heels on a shoe so bulked up she looked and walked like a toddler in mommy's pumps.  Pedophile Footwear, the latest fashion statement?  I wish we'd grow up and stop being good little consumers.

      I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

      by I love OCD on Thu May 29, 2014 at 09:07:08 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I guess ultimately you bind your feet (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        I love OCD

        When women are speaking these days, a lot of what they have to say does comes out red hot hostile as if it has been stifled, bottled up for half a century, as if it was the Pine Island Glacier melting releasing a polar ice cap like a cork coming out of a champagne bottle, but men in general are not entirely to blame for women's fashions being  designed to make those portions of their anatomies which nature has intended to be come hither signals work better.

        Woman who flaunt their fetishes may have an edge on other women who aren't consciously aware they even have fetishes in establishing their dominance and your envy as the basis of their body language, but its when women speak or write that the most seductive of their instruments of persuasion is made apparent, their intelligence and imagination.

        "la vida no vale nada un lugar solita" "The Limits of Control Jim Jarmusch

        by rktect on Fri May 30, 2014 at 03:33:14 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I AM red-hot hostile. The moron (5+ / 0-)

          who decided to kill cause he can't get laid WAS the last straw.  I'm hoping for a generation of women who are smart enough to dress comfortably and stop competing for male attention.  At this point "winning" appears to be losing, but my feelings are exacerbated by the posts from Misogynists Marching For The Right To Rape or whatever they call themselves.  Hope I chill soon.

          I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

          by I love OCD on Fri May 30, 2014 at 07:06:25 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Having been in a female dominated (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      LinSea

      profession and being the kind that keeps talking until I've made my point, this wasn't as much of a problem for me. I did find out about some ways to get around it in a seminar I took and rarely had to use them.  Proactive humor also helps. "I have ADD and 2 degrees in BS."  "Two of my dentists have confirmed I have a SMALL mouth - one uses pediatric tools."

      Just checking MB  "investibators " is a misspell?

      "People, even more than things, have to be restored, renewed, revived, reclaimed and redeemed; never throw out anyone. " Audrey Hepburn "A Beautiful Woman"

      by Ginny in CO on Thu May 29, 2014 at 10:00:16 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Unfortunately, (5+ / 0-)

      many women adopt this behavior toward each other in order to succeed or to establish some sort of pecking order to make themselves feel better. I found it difficult to look for support from female colleagues--especially senior colleagues because of this, even though they were well aware of the problems/challenges.

      Also, the progressive, environmental work world presents the same challenges for women, the same behavior from men. Maybe it's on the other end of the spectrum from more traditional workplaces, but it's on the spectrum.

    •  I went to a doctor recently to get a second (13+ / 0-)

      opinion. HE spoke to my husband the entire time. Even though the subject was about my parts. He made eye contact with me twice, throughout what had to been about a 45 minute lecture, the rest of which he noticeably focused on my spouse.

      It wasn't that what he had to say wasn't important or even informative, just that he didn't speak to me.

      Its more than annoying. It pissed me off. But I knew that if I interrupted him to  put his eyes on me as he spoke, that it would just disrupt him and might deprive me of information I needed.

      These are the choices that women are forced to make every day in some cases. You get to pick your battles, not based on whether you can win them, or even if they are worth winning, but how much you can afford to disrupt the status quo to establish your place of equality, vs, getting whatever it is that you need in that moment.

      "It were a thousand times better for the land if all Witches, but especially the blessing Witch, might suffer death." qtd by Ehrenreich & English. For Her Own Good, Two Centuries of Expert's Advice to Women pp 40

      by GreenMother on Thu May 29, 2014 at 11:24:16 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Unless he has a very good reputation (5+ / 0-)

        as being highly competent in his field, you might want to take his inattention to you as signifying an inattention to your parts. I've had doctors like that before.  

        "The 'Middle' is a crowded place - that is where the effective power is - the extreme right and left might annoy governments, but the middle terrifies them." Johnny Linehan

        by northsylvania on Fri May 30, 2014 at 04:49:57 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Out here in Red-State Woman Hater Land it (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          JeffW, northsylvania

          Just keeps getting better and better.

          "It were a thousand times better for the land if all Witches, but especially the blessing Witch, might suffer death." qtd by Ehrenreich & English. For Her Own Good, Two Centuries of Expert's Advice to Women pp 40

          by GreenMother on Fri May 30, 2014 at 07:21:20 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Fingers and toes crossed (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            JeffW, GreenMother

            that you're all right. If it makes you feel better, male doctors are just as clueless here in the home of the NHS.
            This is very minor, but last week I had a podiatrist tell me that I was imagining foot fungus when there was a picture of my toe on his wall about 2 feet from my toe, with the caption: foot fungus.
            Seriously, you are in my thoughts.

            "The 'Middle' is a crowded place - that is where the effective power is - the extreme right and left might annoy governments, but the middle terrifies them." Johnny Linehan

            by northsylvania on Fri May 30, 2014 at 02:01:35 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Get some pau de arco tea and soak your foot (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              northsylvania

              at night before bed for a while. And see if that doesn't help.

              "It were a thousand times better for the land if all Witches, but especially the blessing Witch, might suffer death." qtd by Ehrenreich & English. For Her Own Good, Two Centuries of Expert's Advice to Women pp 40

              by GreenMother on Sat May 31, 2014 at 03:53:51 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  Charlie Pierce... (15+ / 0-)

    had a great piece this weekend about this NRA sickness.  The bolded line is something that should be repeated often by us.  This is what it's come to.

    This is a country at war with itself because its ruling elite is too cowed, or too well-bribed, or too cowardly to recognize that there are people who are getting rich arming both sides, because the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun, so you make sure that it's easy for the bad guys to get guns in order to make millions selling the guns to the good guys. This is a dynamic not unfamiliar to the people in countries where brushfire conflicts and civil wars are kept alive because distant people are making a buck off them. In Africa, war is made over diamonds and rare earths. In South America, war is made over cocaine. Here, for any number of reasons - because Adam Lanza went crazy or because Elliot Rodger couldn't get laid - and the only constant in all those wars is the fact somebody gets rich arming both sides.

    That is what has come home to roost now. This is a country at war with itself because cynical people have told its citizens that their fellow citizens - all of them, because you can never tell, can you? -- are the enemy. This is a country in which citizens make war on each other because that's what they are being encouraged to do. Someone finds it more profitable to maintain the war than they do to stop it.

    ....

    Wayne LaPierre gets paid when his masters sell guns to the bad guys. Wayne LaPierre gets paid when his masters sell guns to the good guys because of the guns he's already arranged to sell to the bad guys. Wayne LaPierre is the strange white man in the Congo who knows where he can get you some AK's. He's the shadowy fellow in the coffee shop in Kabul who knows where RPG's can be had, cheap. He's the well-dressed, silken-voiced operator, sipping his tea on a cool and breezy veranda outside of Bogota, who smiles at you and shows you on the map where you can pick up your order, because it is time once again for you to make war and him to make money. His look is the smooth and shiny black of the vulture's feathers. He feasts on the carrion of nations.

    •  I know there have been a few diaries of late on (8+ / 0-)

      the NRA's history, but this WaPo article is a fairly succinct timeline starting with the 1977 Cincy convention that turned the outfit on it's collective head ass.

      Just more fundamentalist extremists taking over their religion.

      The NRA: "Never Responsible for Anything."

      by here4tehbeer on Thu May 29, 2014 at 09:19:50 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I just read an historical tidbit on the NRA (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mumtaznepal, laurnj, LinSea, dandy lion

      …that tells the story another way:

      No one knows exactly how much gun manufacturers contribute to the NRA — the group doesn't have to disclose donations…

      Still, the NRA and gun manufacturers often disagree on key issues. And, when they do, the NRA usually wins. Here's a fascinating anecdote from Jarrett Murphy:

      When Smith & Wesson struck a deal with the Clinton administration in 2000, agreeing to a long list of changes to its products and business practices—including limiting the size of magazines for its semi-automatic weapons and avoiding dealers who sold a disproportionate number of guns later used in crimes—the gun lobby howled. It led a boycott of Smith & Wesson that nearly killed the company; in a span of just two years, the number of guns manufactured by Smith & Wesson fell by 44 percent. “They just beat the crap out of Smith & Wesson for a while, then let them back in,” says Diaz. Colt Firearms and Sturm, Ruger have been similarly punished for crimes against the Second Amendment.
      Still, these spats are rare. By and large, the NRA has managed to fend off restrictions on guns for years — there hasn't been a gun-control bill pass Congress since 1999. And that's been good for business.
  •  The Soraya Chemaly commentary really was (24+ / 0-)

    an eye-opener!.  I used to take it personally when a man or group of men ignored what I was saying.  I thought it was something wrong with me!  I consider myself a feminist, but still have a lot to learn about gender bias.

  •  I have a challenge for my fellow kossacks (8+ / 0-)

    Read this piece of garbage from right wing hack, Ramesh Ponnuru, and take a guess at what he, like all right wingers, always conveniently leave out when they're bloviating about Hillary's age.

    Ramesh Ponnuru: Is Hillary Clinton too old to be president?

    Hillary Clinton’s age wouldn’t keep me from voting for her. She’ll be 69 on Election Day 2016. I voted for a 72-year-old by the name of John McCain in 2008.

    It’s a legitimate issue to raise about Clinton, too – and the evidence of recent elections suggests it may well undermine her in 2016.

    http://www.daily-chronicle.com/...

    “I would like to get rid of the homophobes, sexists, and racists in our audience. I know they're out there and it really bothers me.” ― Kurt Cobain

    by Jeff Y on Thu May 29, 2014 at 08:48:06 PM PDT

  •  ten excellent words and three great declarations (11+ / 0-)
    “Stop interrupting me,” “I just said that,” and “No explanation needed.”
    OTOH these 18 words might be useful:

    Warning - some snark may be above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 "If we appear to seek the unattainable, then let it be known that we do so to avoid the unimaginable." (@eState4Column5)

    by annieli on Thu May 29, 2014 at 09:05:02 PM PDT

  •  Kathleen Sebelius - Eric Shinseki (10+ / 0-)

    Everybody should resign.

    The Republicans expect President Obama to run the country with no staff.

    They block all appointments. And call for the remainder to resign.

    Don't send a teddy bear to the Martinez family, they don't want you to intrude on their grief - send a postcard to a politician Not One More

    by 88kathy on Thu May 29, 2014 at 09:09:50 PM PDT

  •  It's one of those foundational issues that... (5+ / 0-)

    undermines work on all the other issues.

    And we know it's not just an IRL problem. Persistent harassment of women online is well document and I'm sure we could collect plenty of anecdotal evidence among female users here.

    "The Democratic Party is not our friend: it is the only party we can negotiate with."

    by 2020adam on Thu May 29, 2014 at 09:17:26 PM PDT

  •  the attacks on Shinseki remind me of the attacks (8+ / 0-)

    on Max Cleland by Saxby Chambliss

    Warning - some snark may be above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 "If we appear to seek the unattainable, then let it be known that we do so to avoid the unimaginable." (@eState4Column5)

    by annieli on Thu May 29, 2014 at 09:19:11 PM PDT

  •  There's another possible reason for that (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jan4insight, Pluto
    This irksome reality goes along with another—men who make no eye contact.
    It may have nothing to do with respect (which the writer implies).
      As a tall, large male, I personally make a conscience effort not to look at women whenever possible because so many women feel threatened so easily. Even to the point of staring at my hands or objects across the room when I am speaking to them.

    "The oppressors most powerful weapon is the mind of the oppressed." - Stephen Biko

    by gjohnsit on Thu May 29, 2014 at 09:20:58 PM PDT

  •  Even that monument to ignorance Bill O'Reilly (9+ / 0-)

    has mentioned that the VA's problems have gone back decades, and suddenly Shinseki is fingered as the fall guy?

    Piss on you hypocrites. And stop having your fucking wars.

    "The soil under the grass is dreaming of a young forest, and under the pavement the soil is dreaming of grass."--Wendell Berry

    by Wildthumb on Thu May 29, 2014 at 09:24:20 PM PDT

  •  About the eye contact thing (10+ / 0-)

    Those of us somewhere on the autism spectrum find this very difficult - one either has no instinct for eye contact and has to remember to do it, up to it actually being painful to look people in the eyes.

    Be careful about judging people who make no eye contact. It isn't easy for everyone. I make every effort, and most people would never know. But it took a lot of training to get there.

    Rick Perry - the greatest scientist since Galileo!

    by Bobs Telecaster on Thu May 29, 2014 at 09:38:50 PM PDT

    •  There are cultural issues here too. It took me... (10+ / 0-)

      ...quite some time to persuade my stepdaughter and stepson (raised in Libya) that, in interviews and other professional situations, not making eye contact can be viewed as "shiftiness" and dishonesty. It was especially hard for them to change their behavior having come from a society in which both men and women avoid eye contact with non-family members who are not of their sex.

      Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

      by Meteor Blades on Thu May 29, 2014 at 10:26:23 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Now it makes sense. I didn't get a job I bid on.. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        LinSea

        ..awhile ago.  A small remodel designed by the wife, on a software program.
        She drew up the blue prints. The mother who dressed in middle eastern clothing (as best I could tell - that is - she has her head covered in a deep red scarf and wore a long robe) was in the room and looking severe as I was talking to the husband and wife.
        The wife and I gradually did most of the talking as she knew the plans. The husband seemed fine but the mother looked quite disapproving. Now it makes sense.

        I'm not sure that was why I didn't get the bid, but I feel pretty sure that there was some tradition (or rule or something) of not having a woman (the stepdaughter) talk to a strange man, and my being there with the wife talking to me directly was against the traditional role

        •  Not that I'm defending the marginalization.. (10+ / 0-)

          ..at all.
          Soraya Chemaly is so correct in her analysis on this topic - imo

          In the wake of Larry Summers’ “women can’t do math” controversy several years ago, scientist Ben Barres wrote publicly about his experiences, first as a woman and later in life, as a male. As a female student at MIT, Barbara Barres was told by a professor after solving a particularly difficult math problem, “Your boyfriend must have solved it for you.” When several years after, as Ben Barres, he gave a well-received scientific speech, he overhead a member of the audience say, “His work is much better than his sister’s.”
          tradition is one thing that is often unfair but then so is just plain old traditional American disrespectful rudeness
      •  In the UK, (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        LinSea

        especially outside the cities, making eye contact, even with friends, is considered rude. I have to remember to look people in the eye when I go back Stateside.

        "The 'Middle' is a crowded place - that is where the effective power is - the extreme right and left might annoy governments, but the middle terrifies them." Johnny Linehan

        by northsylvania on Fri May 30, 2014 at 04:54:34 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  There is a big difference between someone with (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      moviemeister76, laurnj, Calamity Jean

      autism and someone being a dismissive pig.

      Don't even put people with autism anywhere near that other spectrum.

      "It were a thousand times better for the land if all Witches, but especially the blessing Witch, might suffer death." qtd by Ehrenreich & English. For Her Own Good, Two Centuries of Expert's Advice to Women pp 40

      by GreenMother on Thu May 29, 2014 at 11:29:38 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  It can also be a sign of shyness (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      moviemeister76, mumtaznepal, LinSea

      I struggled with severe shyness for many years, and talking to women I didn't know well was the most difficult aspect of it.  I've overcome most of it but still have to consciously remind myself to make eye contact.

      It's probably just a coincidence, but my son is autistic.  I can empathize with how he struggles in social situations.

      "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win". Mohandas K. Gandhi

      by DaveinBremerton on Fri May 30, 2014 at 12:25:37 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  History Channel's WWII series is (0+ / 0-)

    full of facists deploring facists. Otherwise, it ain't bad.

    Is it treason for the American government to spy on it's own people with no prior justification? Isn't that called making war on them? Abraham Lincoln had an answer for that sort of behavior.

    by franklyn on Thu May 29, 2014 at 09:43:43 PM PDT

  •  Just heard a newsflash on local news here that (7+ / 0-)

    Donald Sterling has been declared "mentally incapacitated" and no longer has a say in the sale of his basketball team.

    Well, that's about the aptest description of his kind of bigotry as any.  

    "The soil under the grass is dreaming of a young forest, and under the pavement the soil is dreaming of grass."--Wendell Berry

    by Wildthumb on Thu May 29, 2014 at 09:53:32 PM PDT

  •  Hey...I'm a female... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Eric Nelson, LinSea

    ...nothing else needs be [sadly] said!

    "...a silent coup has taken place in Washington and rampant militarism now rules..." Daniel Ellsberg via John Pilger

    by dharmasyd on Thu May 29, 2014 at 10:01:00 PM PDT

  •  Just catching the Last Word replay... I knew that (6+ / 0-)

    Cheney was on Fox spewing bullshit; didn't realize he'd been relegated to the Hannity show to do it.

    Wow. That's like a former A-List actor playing out their final useful days on the backroads dinner theatre circuit.

    DI K CHAYNEY IS WILLIE LOMAN
    NIGHTIY @ 8PM
    "Try Our Veal!"

    The NRA: "Never Responsible for Anything."

    by here4tehbeer on Thu May 29, 2014 at 10:14:43 PM PDT

  •  investibators? (4+ / 0-)

    Ha! That was in 2012.

    How did such an irreplaceable word ever fall out of fashion?

  •  If I were Obama (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mumtaznepal, JeffW

    If I were Obama, I'd give them my transcripts...and then demand the $20,000.

  •  Whee! Gender Stereotypes Of Men Are Fun! (0+ / 0-)

    I've had good female bosses, and I've had a couple that were very very disturbed people.   If they were men, they would have gone down under a swarm of cops and truncheons instead of running amok as middle managers.

    Men are so necessarily mad, that not to be mad would amount to another form of madness. -Pascal

    by bernardpliers on Fri May 30, 2014 at 01:03:55 AM PDT

  •  I definitely noticed the interrupting issue (11+ / 0-)

    Going against gender norms, I have always been the type of person that interrupts people. Particularly when I'm manic, because my brain just seems to move so fast sometimes.

    One of the things I noticed in college is that the white male professors, regardless of age or overall temperament, would get seriously pissed off at me for interrupting them. While the female professors wouldn't blink an eye when I did it. The male professors of color would sometimes let it go, and sometimes be amused. It really opened my eyes to who was used to being interrupted.

    Two hundred fifty years of slavery. Ninety years of Jim Crow. Sixty years of separate but equal. Thirty-five years of racist housing policy. Until we reckon with our compounding moral debts, America will never be whole. - Ta-Nehisi Coates

    by moviemeister76 on Fri May 30, 2014 at 02:00:20 AM PDT

    •  "Manic" Needed To Be Said (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      moviemeister76
      Going against gender norms, I have always been the type of person that interrupts people. Particularly when I'm manic, because my brain just seems to move so fast sometimes.
      Yes, someone that constantly interrupts may be suffering from mania.  Thursday, my GF had to interrupt repeatedly because I said I was going to put an extra  piece of tape on a parcel she asked me mail.   I give her about four chances in these situations.

      Men are so necessarily mad, that not to be mad would amount to another form of madness. -Pascal

      by bernardpliers on Fri May 30, 2014 at 10:09:04 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  My husband has learned to compensate as well (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bernardpliers

        He can usually tell before me when I've become manic.

        Two hundred fifty years of slavery. Ninety years of Jim Crow. Sixty years of separate but equal. Thirty-five years of racist housing policy. Until we reckon with our compounding moral debts, America will never be whole. - Ta-Nehisi Coates

        by moviemeister76 on Fri May 30, 2014 at 10:17:04 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  She Got Looped By Antihistamines This Week (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          moviemeister76

          Zertec has given her powerful anxiety attacks and this will take a week to go away.

          It used to be when I was working in the yard she'd come out and start bombarding me with commands, like I was her personal earth mover.  Because everything I was doing was somehow wrong. Not that these tasks were anything she cared about, she just had an uncontrollable urge to micromanage my every movement I was outside

          I can easily see how that would get of control in an office setting, where a manager would always see the employee as always always doing the wrong thing.  Because the manic person may see others as always doing the wrong thing in the wrong order at the wrong time.

          Men are so necessarily mad, that not to be mad would amount to another form of madness. -Pascal

          by bernardpliers on Fri May 30, 2014 at 10:31:28 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I totally get that (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            bernardpliers, JeffW

            One of the first things I had to train myself to do when I made manager years ago was to stay away from my employees while they were doing what I told them to do. Because the urge to stand over their shoulder and correct every little thing was very strong.

            Two hundred fifty years of slavery. Ninety years of Jim Crow. Sixty years of separate but equal. Thirty-five years of racist housing policy. Until we reckon with our compounding moral debts, America will never be whole. - Ta-Nehisi Coates

            by moviemeister76 on Fri May 30, 2014 at 12:53:54 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Oh and (0+ / 0-)

            Is she sleeping all ok? I react the same way to antihistamines. Last time I was prescribed one, I couldn't sleep for days.

            Two hundred fifty years of slavery. Ninety years of Jim Crow. Sixty years of separate but equal. Thirty-five years of racist housing policy. Until we reckon with our compounding moral debts, America will never be whole. - Ta-Nehisi Coates

            by moviemeister76 on Fri May 30, 2014 at 04:07:15 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  She Had Some Nightmares (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              moviemeister76

              I've gotten a lot more strict about not letting her stay up because the last time got her sleep cycles were all messed up there was a cascade of problems involving important items getting lost, which set us back several thousand dollars.

              Men are so necessarily mad, that not to be mad would amount to another form of madness. -Pascal

              by bernardpliers on Fri May 30, 2014 at 04:24:55 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  It pains me that I actually understand that (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                bernardpliers

                Thankfully I never cost us thousands of dollars at one time, but over time, it's been pretty bad. I'm glad that your wife at least isn't alone and has someone who cares for her.

                Two hundred fifty years of slavery. Ninety years of Jim Crow. Sixty years of separate but equal. Thirty-five years of racist housing policy. Until we reckon with our compounding moral debts, America will never be whole. - Ta-Nehisi Coates

                by moviemeister76 on Fri May 30, 2014 at 04:35:21 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

  •  Good exercise: go on Twitter, and make up an (5+ / 0-)

    account using a woman's name and picture, then a man's name and picture.  Oh, yeah, you'll see the difference in how you are treated!

    "Privatize to Profitize" explains every single Republican economic, social and governing philosophy. Take every taxpayer dollar from defense, education, health care, public lands, retirement - privatize it, and profit from it.

    by mumtaznepal on Fri May 30, 2014 at 03:47:47 AM PDT

  •  Hmm during my time in upper management surround... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JeffW

    Hmm during my time in upper management surrounded by men 30+ years older than me I don't think I was ever interrupted while making a point. I don't think it had to do with gender though, I think it was because I was an asshole who was quite good at her job. Perhaps they were a little afraid of a young girl "keeping up" with all these old men. Or maybe they were old enough to realize gender doesn't matter. But on the flip side when it came to my direct subordinates, I was interrupted quite a bit by men my own age. Maybe its because a girl was thier boss, maybe because they were jealous they weren't in management. Or maybe its because I was kind to them. The latter, I think. Sometimes for a woman to get respect in a situation surrounded men that won't listen, she has to be a dick.

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