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Andrew Cuomo delivers the State of the State address, January 6, 2012
If that surrender is really on the table, take it!
If the Working Families Party gets this, I would definitely take that for putting Andrew Cuomo on the WFP ballot line:
As for the contours of the deal, they would appear to include a shift by the governor that would include declaring a new progressive agenda, expressing a newfound devotion to key planks of the party’s platform such as public financing of elections, a DREAM Act and a minimum wage increase. To overcome the problem of much of the party not trusting the governor’s word, the agenda would be unveiled at a big public event with WFP allies, perhaps as soon as this weekend, in which the governor would stand with key players of the state’s institutional left (including de Blasio) — and declare his support for it [...]

First, the united groups — including unions like 1199 and the Hotel Trades Council, which backed a Republican state Senate in recent years — would declare the need for a Democratic state Senate. For WFP members to be interested, they’d like to see the governor say he will help fund primary challenges to the Independent Democratic Caucus — a band of breakaway Democrats now caucusing with Republicans — with millions of dollars if they don’t rejoin the party in earnest.

This is all "insider" sources and all, so take with appropriate grain of salt. But the report says that the deal would include:

- Cuomo having to kiss Bill de Blasio's butt in public, along that of the WFP. That base humiliation alone might be worth the price of admission.

- Cuomo pledges support for state DREAM Act and minimum wage increase, both of which would dramatically improve the lives of people in the state.

- But how does he get that through the Senate? Well, he gives up his tacit support for the turncoat Democrats who have given control of the chamber to minority Republicans. He either tells them "rejoin the Democrats, or I'll back the primaries against you." Of course, we still back those primary challenges, but regardless the outcome, the GOP is left in the cold. Advantage the good guys, again.

- Public financing of elections is a big deal. The governor promised it, then he decided to only apply it to one of his political Democratic enemies, and only this election. A recommitment to real public financing would be fantastic.

All in all, this would be a stunning surrender by the governor, and a stunning victory by the Working Families Party. If these reports are true and that's what's on the table, take the deal.

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Comment Preferences

  •  There's a divide within the WFP. (16+ / 0-)

    The people behind the party, the unions, want a deal with Cuomo. That's the board.

    The executives, the officials of the party, do not want a deal with Cuomo.

    So thats whats gotta be worked out here.

    •  Not entirely accurate. (8+ / 0-)

      The press here is painting the narrative that all unions want Cuomo.  However, not all of them behind the party do.  SEIU 1199, HTC, CWA, some of the NYC municipal unions, and a few other deep-pocketed ones.  Essentially, some private and public sector unions Cuomo has helped - or at least not harmed.

      Other unions that Cuomo has screwed over still want the WFP to tell him to go blow.  Essentially, he's fractured a labor coalition into pro and anti Cuomo subgroups.  A typically Republican ploy.  And he'll get rewarded for this?

      As for the party itself, the execs stand with the former.  The party activists that control the state committee and are the ones that will vote to determine who the party supports - largely don't like and don't trust Cuomo, and if they take the deal, they got railroaded or cowed into it but the Cuomo-allied unions that threatened to pull out of the party.

      "There was no such thing as a "wealthy" hunter-gatherer. It is the creation of human society that has allowed the wealthy to become wealthy. As such, they have an obligation to pay a bit more to sustain that society than the not-so-wealthy." - Me

      by Darth Stateworker on Sat May 31, 2014 at 06:23:42 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yeah, the ones with the money. nt (3+ / 0-)
        •  Mainly. (7+ / 0-)

          Our unions (the main state employee unions) have money, and AFAIK, our leadership isn't supporting this.  Also AFAIK some of the larger private sector unions who know better, like the Teamsters, aren't exactly on board either.

          At the end of the day, this fracture simply weakens organized labor in the state and bolsters Andrew Cuomo.  What we needed was labor to stay cohesive and Cuomo to be taken down a few notches so not only would he have to commit to a progressive agenda, he'd have to stick to it because he no longer looks unstoppable in the polls.  That polling is what has given him so much influence over the legislature to ram through whatever the fuck he wants.

          Sometimes it was to our benefit - like marriage equality - but generally, it was to our detriment and to the benefit of nobody by his campaign donors.

          This is so frustrating to me that some of these idiot union leaders can't see past their own narrow interests and see the bigger picture.

          "There was no such thing as a "wealthy" hunter-gatherer. It is the creation of human society that has allowed the wealthy to become wealthy. As such, they have an obligation to pay a bit more to sustain that society than the not-so-wealthy." - Me

          by Darth Stateworker on Sat May 31, 2014 at 06:40:36 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  You gotta have a leader. Without (6+ / 0-)

            a candidate,  its everyone for themselves. Like I keep saying, solve that leadership problem.

            •  True. (6+ / 0-)

              I don't think Teachout - a virtual unknown - was that candidate.

              Ravitch might have been.

              "There was no such thing as a "wealthy" hunter-gatherer. It is the creation of human society that has allowed the wealthy to become wealthy. As such, they have an obligation to pay a bit more to sustain that society than the not-so-wealthy." - Me

              by Darth Stateworker on Sat May 31, 2014 at 06:55:57 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  She wasn't. (0+ / 0-)

                And it's too damn bad they chose her and stuck with her. It remains to be seen what happens when the WFP chooses Cuomo and sticks with HIM.

                There are worse problems to have, I suppose.

                "I feel a lot safer already."--Emil Sitka

                by DaddyO on Sat May 31, 2014 at 07:47:54 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Yeah, but who's a real alternative? (0+ / 0-)

                  I know Kos was talking up Diane Ravitch, but she'd get the politics wonk vote and not much else. WFP needed someone who (a) had serious name recognition but (b) wasn't a clown. (Lookin' at you, Al Lewis!) No Dem politician (or ex-moderate GOPher -- they've been hunted out of existence in NY) out there is going to take that plunge. The closest non-politician I can think of would be either Mark Ruffalo or Melissa Leo, both of whom have been amazing & articulate activists against fracking, but that's not happening, either.

                  To my mind, there's not enough teeth in the "conditions" Cuomo would have to accept: He'll give them lip service (just like he did before with campaign finance reform), and then blow them off after he gets re-elected and starts planning to take on Hillary. But even though Cuomo may be weak from the left, the WFP has no good statewide alternatives. They're going to have to get what they get from Cuomo and hope he remembers where he left his dad's integrity.

                  "If you're going to go down with the ship, make it a submarine." - Wayne Shorter

                  by Oliver Tiger on Sat May 31, 2014 at 08:13:15 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Parents would support Ravitch (3+ / 0-)

                    Parents would support Ravitch

                  •  Ravitch would get more than just wonks (4+ / 0-)

                    right off the bat.

                    Parents with school-aged children for one.  Many of them are pissed off about charter schools and Common Core - especially Common Core.  Both of these things are items Ravitch has gained a following railing against.

                    Common Core is so unpopular, Cuomos Republican opponent is also using it against him in an effort to garner that parent vote.

                    Add that together with the massive amount of press that would be generated by a liberal insurrection against Cuomo, combine that with the fact that older voters will know Ravitch already (and recognize her last name) simply because she's Richard Ravitch's ex-wife, and I think she was their strongest choice, other than someone like a Mark Ruffalo with massive name recognition from outside the political arena.

                    They did kick around the idea of Cynthia Nixon (of Sex and the City fame), but she declined.

                    "There was no such thing as a "wealthy" hunter-gatherer. It is the creation of human society that has allowed the wealthy to become wealthy. As such, they have an obligation to pay a bit more to sustain that society than the not-so-wealthy." - Me

                    by Darth Stateworker on Sat May 31, 2014 at 10:04:05 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Not buying it (0+ / 0-)

                      Those parents will split between Ravitch and Astorino, and that just makes the race closer between Astorino and Cuomo. Plus you need more than just charter schools and Common Core. You can't just endorse the SAFE Act to differentiate yourself from Cuomo, and that's what we're looking for here: A REAL difference-maker.

                      And I'm sorry, folks, but you also need someone who can sell what you're selling, which means you need someone (male or female) with a big enough personality to overcome Prince Andrew's babblings, and nobody WFP has put up has that quality. Having the facts on your side isn't enough nowadays, particularly in a state that gets redder the farther west you go!

                      "If you're going to go down with the ship, make it a submarine." - Wayne Shorter

                      by Oliver Tiger on Sat May 31, 2014 at 11:11:28 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  You don't have to buy it. (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        charliehall2

                        But that's the reality.

                        "There was no such thing as a "wealthy" hunter-gatherer. It is the creation of human society that has allowed the wealthy to become wealthy. As such, they have an obligation to pay a bit more to sustain that society than the not-so-wealthy." - Me

                        by Darth Stateworker on Sat May 31, 2014 at 11:25:18 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                  •  Cuomo is delusional (0+ / 0-)

                    If he thinks he's going to be able to "piss in the tall grass with the big dogs" come 2016. Hillary will roll him. I'm not a huge fan of the Clintons. But that's reality.

                    "Because we are all connected...."

                    by Shawn87 on Sat May 31, 2014 at 02:21:39 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  What about Bertha Lewis? (0+ / 0-)
                  •  Ravich would have been a great candidate (0+ / 0-)

                    16 years ago. She is about to turn 76 years old.

              •  Teachout is running from what I can tell.. (0+ / 0-)

                http://zephyrteachout.com/
                http://www.cityandstateny.com/...
                http://www.nytimes.com/...

                I actually remember her, and have a great deal of respect for her. She contributed a great deal in the way of energy and organization to Howard Dean's presidential campaign, and I still remember her for that.

                But outside of a few political junkies, I think she's pretty much an unknown, and I don't think she stands a chance of beating Cuomo, and if she doesn't, I'd prefer to see her run for something else that she can win.  Running up a string of defeats is no way for an up and coming politician to make a name for themselves.

                So though I respect her, as per our conversation below, I'd still prefer Cuomo and WFP to iron out their differences, so we can concentrate on other races that need our help.

    •  QUESTION: "...why does anyone trust Cuomo...? (4+ / 0-)
      ...(snip...)...For WFP members to be interested, they’d like to see the governor say he will help fund primary challenges to the Independent Democratic Caucus — a band of breakaway Democrats now caucusing with Republicans — with millions of dollars if they don’t rejoin the party in earnest....(...snip)
      That ain't never gonna happen.

      New Yorkers need to stop listening to Cuomo and...(just) remember what he has done i.e.

      ...(snip...)...tacit support for the turncoat Democrats who have given control of the chamber to minority Republicans. He either tells them "rejoin the Democrats, or I'll back the primaries against you."
      New Yorkers need to stop listening to Cuomo and...(just) remember...
      Fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again. -- G.W. Bush

      My name is Gladiator...I am... (a) father of a murdered son, husband to a murdered wife and...I shall have my vengeance in this life or...the next.

      by 2questions on Sat May 31, 2014 at 09:03:04 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  As you say, this is only one "insider source", (6+ / 0-)

    and I want to see the details, but, this has possibilities.  That doesn't mean that I discount the possibility of a Cuomo doublecross.  But, this looks to be progress for the progressives in NYS.

    Dick Cheney was completely wrong about Iraq, and we are still struggling with the aftermath of what Dick Cheney and his crew thought was the right policy: To go in and start a war of choice for the wrong reasons. -- John Kerry

    by Its the Supreme Court Stupid on Sat May 31, 2014 at 06:10:05 AM PDT

  •  still don't, and never will, trust him. n/t (16+ / 0-)

    "You are what you write, not what you look like."

    by PHScott on Sat May 31, 2014 at 06:10:13 AM PDT

  •  "Stunning" (24+ / 0-)

    No.

    They're giving him the line because he agreed to be a Democrat.

    There's nothing "stunning" about that.  Rather, it's pathetic.  You shouldn't have to get a Democratic governor in a very blue state to pledge to actually govern like a Democrat.

    As a New Yorker, I'd rather they ran their own candidate.  This does deal does little to weaken Andrew Cuomo in the eyes of most state voters, so there's nothing to say this asshole won't simply go right back to his old bullshit as soon as the election is over.

    He needed to be taught a lesson.  A real lesson.  And the only lesson he's being taught here is that he can run roughshod over the base and still get their votes if he does a big "Kumbaya!  Everybody loves everybody!" meeting with a few prominent liberals in public.

    I am disgusted by this turn of events - not pleased.  I most certainly don't view it as a victory - and I live here.

    "There was no such thing as a "wealthy" hunter-gatherer. It is the creation of human society that has allowed the wealthy to become wealthy. As such, they have an obligation to pay a bit more to sustain that society than the not-so-wealthy." - Me

    by Darth Stateworker on Sat May 31, 2014 at 06:11:07 AM PDT

  •  Take the deal, but don't hold your breath while (6+ / 0-)

    you wait for Cuomo to follow through.  He's lower than a snake's milking stool.

    Putting the fun back in dysfunctional.

    by hawkseye on Sat May 31, 2014 at 06:11:20 AM PDT

  •  2 things missing (7+ / 0-)

    Sketchy in detail but missing seems to be

    1 a promise of big chunk of his campaign funds to fund making the senate Democratic

    2 moratorium on charter schools in NYC

    I imagine the first might be implied (if legal) but the WFP may not represent parents enough to get the second.  Still the heinous charter amendments may get reversed if the senate can be fixed.

  •  If we get better policy out of this (0+ / 0-)

    then by all means.  If Cuomo becomes a better Democrat then what we've got is a better Democrat.  Public campaign financing would be huge.  

    Life is good. Injustice? Not so much.

    by westyny on Sat May 31, 2014 at 06:20:03 AM PDT

  •  There's a lot to unpack here (12+ / 0-)

    But first, they've got to sell the state committee and that's a pretty tough sell because almost nobody trusts Cuomo. Why? Because he's lied to progressives too many times.

    The unions (who've really fucked over WFP here) have put them in a bad spot. They want a deal because Cuomo can fuck them if he chooses. He may fuck them anyway, but whatever. But if they endorse Cuomo, they risk losing a ton of credibility with the rank and file.

    And the rank and file fucking hates Cuomo and there's a lot more of them than the unions can probably whip. This isn't a done deal by any means. This doesn't mean that they won't ultimately take the deal, but I wouldn't be surprised if it narrowly lost either.

    And I totally understand why. Cuomo is a liar and everybody knows it. When news of this deal started to leak out last night, the instant opinion of journos here in NY was that he wasn't sincere. And why would anyone feel differently?

    Remember that time he ran for years saying he wouldn't sign off on ridiculously gerrymandered legislative districts? Or when his top priority was passing a 10 point women's equality agenda and then went to bat for exactly the legislators who would make sure those things would never actually happen?

    I could go on, but... yeah. The dude lies to progressives for fun.

    There's absolutely no reason to trust this asshole to actually deliver any of this stuff and precious little way of holding him to account when he does what Andrew Cuomo does what Andrew Cuomo always does, namely, fucking stab progs in the back while fucking over working people at the behest of the people he actually works for, the very wealthy few he hopes will finance a run for the big gig in DC.

    The fact that we have coerce a sitting Dem governor of NY into supporting an actual progressive agenda is just really, really fucking sad. What's worse is that there is really no reason at all to believe that he'll actually deliver.

    That's fucked up.

    "after the Rapture, we get all their shit"

    the albany project.

    by lipris on Sat May 31, 2014 at 06:23:08 AM PDT

  •  Andrew Cuomo would make a good Bond villain, (5+ / 0-)

    IMO.  

    I can't image him having a civil conversation with say, Barbara Jordan, or Robert F. Kennedy, or Birch Bayh.   All three of them would get up and leave, tired of trying to communicate with a brick wall.  

    When I saw Barbara Jordan on a news screen I could sense thousands and thousands of people around her, that she was one of many, that she aspired to serve those thousands, and did so with a sincere will and dedication.  

    Physically, Robert F. Kennedy was a thin reed of a person, yet a fiery will rose from that thin frame and anybody around him could sense it.  There are an extraordinary number of photographs of people in crowds whose arms are extended, reaching out to touch him.  That fiery individual human will was directed at improving the lives of other people.  

    I don't get any of that from Andrew Cuomo.  Liked his father quite a bit but am dumbfounded by Andrew's lurch toward the Right.  It feels like an abandonment to me.  And I resent it.  

    "How can we know the dancer from the dance?" (Yeats)

    by Remediator on Sat May 31, 2014 at 06:25:55 AM PDT

  •  Oh, and let's dispense (3+ / 0-)

    with the notion that Cuomo will have to kiss BdB's ass. That's just not Cuomo's style. BdB has been very valuable in helping Cuomo to (probably, though not certainly) what he wants. That's worth a chit. BdB, a man who ran on a explicitly progressive platform that won 3-1 just a few months ago, may find it easier to get this or that thing from a Dem governor who fancies himself a Dem POTUS.

    But there's no way Cuomo kisses his ass. That's just not happening.

    Oh, and one more thing. Can we all now point and laugh at all the folks who spent the last few days saying publicly that "Cuomo isn't sweating WFP?" These people were either full of a shit or obviously know fuck all about who Cuomo actually is.

    "after the Rapture, we get all their shit"

    the albany project.

    by lipris on Sat May 31, 2014 at 06:28:40 AM PDT

  •  Meh (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    quill, Rithmck

    He's already promised to go after the Indy-Dems if they don't pass public financing, and already expressed his support for Min wage, and the Dream act.
    The WFP gets next to nothing from this, but that's because they had apx. 0 leverage.

    •  Zero leverage? (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Odysseus, dksbook, quill

      Had they remained cohesive and ran a candidate that could have garnered the kinds of votes polling indicated, they had a shit-ton of leverage.

      More than anything Andrew Fucking Cuomo wants to win this re-election bid in a slam-dunk.  Preventing him from doing that substantially weakens him both in New York state and in national politics.

      That's not just leverage.  That's a shit-ton of leverage - especially with an asshole that has an ego as big as Cuomo does.

      "There was no such thing as a "wealthy" hunter-gatherer. It is the creation of human society that has allowed the wealthy to become wealthy. As such, they have an obligation to pay a bit more to sustain that society than the not-so-wealthy." - Me

      by Darth Stateworker on Sat May 31, 2014 at 06:52:04 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Too late to go after the Indy-Dems (0+ / 0-)

      Oliver Koppell's candidacy is facing opposition from people who should be supporters; this past week his own political club, the Benjamin Franklin Reform Democratic Club (whose office is 3 blocks from me) endorsed Klein by a 3 to 1 margin. Koppell helped to found that club 50 years ago! Apparently they have not forgiven Koppell for endorsing Mike Bloomberg over Bill Thompson. :(

      And the "progressive" challenger to Tony Avella is the ethically challenged John Liu. We don't need a third corruptocrat in the NY Senate.  

  •  What is Andrew Cuomo really (6+ / 0-)

    up to, anyway?  It appears that he sees himself as a contender for the presidency.

    Can't give you the future cuz it ain't happened yet, but from all indicators, this guy has zero chance at the nomination.  

    Is there some groundswell of enthusiasm for Andrew Cuomo out there I'm just not picking up?  

    Come primary season -- still quite aways away -- if there's somebody on my ballot who's a Democrat, I want that person to by god act like a Democrat.  And the deeper blue shade the better.  

    "How can we know the dancer from the dance?" (Yeats)

    by Remediator on Sat May 31, 2014 at 06:39:49 AM PDT

    •  groundswell of enthusiasm for Andy? (3+ / 0-)

      Probably not - maybe for his impeachment or resignation, but fairly unlikely as far as higher office goes.

      As for the governorship, I get the feeling that whatever grass-roots support Andrew Cuomo might have (and I also get the feeling that it's not a lot!) is basically as a "least-worst" alternative. And that mainly in-State.

      I, too think a Democrat ought to really ACT like one; and I find it incredible that it's taken a breakaway threat by the WFP to get Andrew Cuomo to do so, even if cynically and half-heartedly (and mainly involving getting his support for measures he probably would have supported anyway). Oh well, "Least-Worst" and all that.....

    •  Fathers and mothers get elected to Congress (4+ / 0-)

      on the strengths of their own characters, in pursuit of an ideal.  

      Sons and daughters get elected to Congress on the strengths of the pocketbooks and connections of their parents' friends, in pursuit of The Good Life for themselves.  They are nearly always worthless as public servants.

      Shirley Chisholm was right. Our Republic is in deep trouble.

      by Big River Bandido on Sat May 31, 2014 at 07:44:52 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Ok, but at the same time, I'd surely (4+ / 0-)

        vote for Jason Carter no matter who his father was in the current Georgia gubernatorial race.  

        And Jerry Brown, while not the perfect progressive, has certainly served the common good in a way a Republican choice on the same ballot would not have.  

        Both those guys had governor dads.  

        I'm not sure I'm complaining about Andrew's blood so much as his abandonment of the planks I hold dear to the bridge.  

        My god, Hugh Carey looks like a Kenyan socialist next to Andrew Cuomo.  

        "How can we know the dancer from the dance?" (Yeats)

        by Remediator on Sat May 31, 2014 at 07:47:39 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I don't deny that there are the occasional (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ellefarr

          children who actually honor their families' legacies...Sen. Kennedy, I would say, was far more progressive and influential than either of his older brothers.  But these types are rare.  I wish Mr. Carter the best, but I don't hold out any hope of him being a progressive...not even his grandfather qualifies for that label, in my view, though he was a decent man.

          Not even Jerry Brown, for all his basic sanity, is much of a progressive.  Never was...always more interested in austerity, even in his first go-around in Sacramento.  Certainly not anything like his father, a true visionary who practically built the U of C system.

          Shirley Chisholm was right. Our Republic is in deep trouble.

          by Big River Bandido on Sat May 31, 2014 at 10:07:55 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Carey was the best NY governor since Al Smith (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Remediator

          it is a minor miracle that he staved off bankruptcy for the state.

  •  What is Somebody's Wet Dream... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ellefarr

    Political fantasies for $500, Alex!

  •  I expect Cuomo will remain true to (6+ / 0-)

    his word just like he did when he promised independent and bipartisan redistricting and to veto any lines that didn't meet that criteria.  Oh, wait..

  •  Not good enough. He has to renounce (8+ / 0-)

    Eva Moskowitz and roll back the privatization of public education in NYC

    "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." --M. L. King "You can't fix stupid" --Ron White -6.00, -5.18

    by zenbassoon on Sat May 31, 2014 at 07:11:15 AM PDT

  •  the best scenario... (0+ / 0-)

    ...of all of the lousy options available to us New York progressives in my opinion would be for Cuomo to get the WFP nomination and then to have as many progressives vote for him on that line as possible, ideally the most third-party votes ever for a major party candidate in this state.

    That would tell Cuomo for once and for all that he is on serious probation with those who helped to "bring him to the dance" to begin with.

    All other scenarios are not productive in terms of advancing a progressive agenda (and are, in most cases, options that would actually hinder bringing about a more progressive agenda, in my opinion, by doing exactly what Republicans want: massive divisions among Democratic Party members.

    Massive divisions among Democratic Party members is the one and only way that Republicans ever get elected in New York. Unfortunately, too many naive progressives have allowed themselves to be used as part of the Republican agenda in the past.

    My number one concern, here in New York and throughout the country is to prevent the election of ANY Republican because the election of ANY Republican is always bad and always brings us further away from a progressive agenda.

    While there are Democrats that are worse than others, 99 percent of the time the worst Democrat is far better than the best Republican, especially in the reddest areas of the country (there are a few exceptions, i.e. Joe Lieberbman and Zell Miller).

    •  "That would tell Cuomo for once and for all..." (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      lipris, quill, GreatLakeSailor

      "...that you guys are the suckers I've always made you out to be. This was TOO easy!"

      There aren't any perfect messages or fixes in this political mess. This leaves it up to TRUSTING Cuomo, and yelling at him if he screws the WFP and Democrats and goes back to his Republican ways.

      AGAIN.

      "I feel a lot safer already."--Emil Sitka

      by DaddyO on Sat May 31, 2014 at 07:51:54 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Think about the size of Cuomos ego. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      dksbook

      Simply having a groundswell of votes for him coming in on the WFP line and not the Dem line would do nothing - he still got the votes, he'd still feel validated.

      No, the best way to tell Cuomo he's on probation would be for all votes that were going to go to a WFP challenger to instead coalesce behind another 3rd party challenger, like the Greens.

      Give him the WFP nod, have the base abandon him anyway after the kerfuffle, seriously impacting his margin of victory.  

      Taking votes away from him - period - was the only way to send him the message that his Demopublican/Republicrat way of governing doesn't fly and certainly isn't going to get him to the White House.

      "There was no such thing as a "wealthy" hunter-gatherer. It is the creation of human society that has allowed the wealthy to become wealthy. As such, they have an obligation to pay a bit more to sustain that society than the not-so-wealthy." - Me

      by Darth Stateworker on Sat May 31, 2014 at 08:20:52 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  dividing the progressive vote... (0+ / 0-)

        ...only increases the chances of electing a Republican, which is an unacceptable alternative to me.

        •  Read the Siena poll. (0+ / 0-)

          No chance of that occuring.

          He's +15 WITH a liberal challenger.

          "There was no such thing as a "wealthy" hunter-gatherer. It is the creation of human society that has allowed the wealthy to become wealthy. As such, they have an obligation to pay a bit more to sustain that society than the not-so-wealthy." - Me

          by Darth Stateworker on Sat May 31, 2014 at 05:44:19 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  it increases the chances... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            charliehall2

            ...and while it doesn't currently appear that the Republicans have much of a chance, if the narrative continues to be a focus on division among Democrats and progressives, a 15 percent lead is nothing that can't be overcome. Heck, Mario Cuomo led Pataki by double digits about this time in 1994, and Pataki ended up winning.

            Republicans will need a perfect storm to perform well in New York this November. However, one component of that perfect storm would be division among Democrats and unity among Republicans. Both of those are looking increasingly likely.

            And that could help Republicans down-ballot this year, as well as to lay the gorundworkd for the future.

            •  The idea that Republicans are dangerous (0+ / 0-)

              in New York and have any real chance of gaining serious control over the levers of power is completely off the wall.

              Firstly, they're not wingnuts.  They're mainly mainstream, because most New Yorkers - even GOPers - have no tolerance for Tea Party wingnuttiness.  Sure - you get a few here and there like Greg Ball and Steve McLaughlin, but they are outliers, and unlike in DC, they hold no sway over their conference.  This doesn't make them "good."  It just means we aren't dealing with Tea Party wingnuts.

              Secondly, even in the extremely remote chance that say, a liberal challenger was put up by the WFP (not happening now) and Astorino was somehow able to eek out a win, what does he do then?

              The chances of Astorino winning in even the "Cuomo has a liberal challenger" situation are between "slim" and "none", and far closer to "none" than "slim."  The chances that Republicans could end the supermajority of Democrats in the Assembly?  Well, maybe if an asteroid takes out most of NYC during and off week for the legislature while all the incumbents are home.  Outright winning the chamber?  That would take even more asteroids destroying every urban area in the state under the same circumstances.

              As such, Astorino poses about as much threat as Pataki did if he was, by some fluke, able to get into office.  He'd be a virtually powerless figurehead, because the Assembly would stop his agenda dead in its tracks.

              There was nothing to fear from a liberal challenger - even though the issue now is moot.

              "There was no such thing as a "wealthy" hunter-gatherer. It is the creation of human society that has allowed the wealthy to become wealthy. As such, they have an obligation to pay a bit more to sustain that society than the not-so-wealthy." - Me

              by Darth Stateworker on Sat May 31, 2014 at 11:18:20 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  The issue is indeed now moot... (0+ / 0-)

                A deal has been struck.

                http://www.nytimes.com/...

                I do think this is for the best... I know some in the WFP are disappointed, but now I can pay more attention to Federal House and Senate races, also State Senate and Assembly, and not worry so much about what's happening in the Governor's race.  

                I do think Zephyr Teachout could be a great candidate, but I'd rather see her run in some other race as a Democrat, against a Republican, instead of take up this 3rd party bid.

  •  What's to keep him from welshing? On all of it? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rexxnyc, raboof, zemongoose

    I've seen you grousing about this guy for months. He's bad news, but, yeah, we're stuck with him. I can't see TRUSTING him, though..

    "I feel a lot safer already."--Emil Sitka

    by DaddyO on Sat May 31, 2014 at 07:46:20 AM PDT

    •  Essentially nothing. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      rexxnyc

      Nothing whatsoever prevents him from not implementing any of this.

      In fact, the entire deal leaves him with a built-in excuse - the same excuse he has now when he doesn't accomplish something very popular and fiscally liberal - Senate Republicans.  

      Sure, he committed to working towards winning the Senate back for the Dems.  All he has to do is outwardly appear to be doing that, but behind the scenes, working to keep the GOP in charge.  BOOM!  Everything else he promised (mainly boilerplate liberal stuff - nothing all that major) can't happen and he now has the built-in excuse that he can't get it through the Senate - AGAIN.

      Like Lando Calrissian said:  "This deal is getting worse all the time!"

      "There was no such thing as a "wealthy" hunter-gatherer. It is the creation of human society that has allowed the wealthy to become wealthy. As such, they have an obligation to pay a bit more to sustain that society than the not-so-wealthy." - Me

      by Darth Stateworker on Sat May 31, 2014 at 08:26:19 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Guess I'll have to do a write-in (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Remediator, rexxnyc

    I'll vote Democrats otherwise I think, and I'd vote a WFP candidate if it's not Cuomo. But Cuomo's past behavior suggests public statements don't really matter when it comes time to help himself and he can't be trusted to follow through on progressive ideas.  I doubt these statements would do much at all to change his behavior now.

    At least he might get stuck with a Democrat-controlled senate. If that happens, he could get exposed when he vetoes progressive legislation he claims to support.

  •  i will remind you (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Darth Stateworker

    beware of greeks bearing gifts even if they are not greeks but conservatives in dem clothing.

  •  Deadlines? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    fisher1028

    I don't know about New York, but Texas just had its primary runoffs. First primaries were March 4. Filing deadlines were last December.
    Maybe New York has later deadlines, but it seems mighty late to get dissatisfied with Andrew Cuomo. I know that NY has had 3rd parties that keep the 2 major parties in line, but it still looks to me like a mess.
    I am getting ready to go to a Houston Area Kossacks meeting. I may throw out a question about who to run against Ted Cruz in 2018.

    Censorship is rogue government.

    by scott5js on Sat May 31, 2014 at 08:56:53 AM PDT

  •  If the WFP takes the deal. (3+ / 0-)

    We won't know if was a good one until after November, and, more likely, after 2016, when we've seen just how Cuomo lives up to it (or doesn't).

    That stinks, and that's the reality of it.

  •  Well, I don't live in NY...and pray he never (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    GreatLakeSailor

    desires to run for national office, because he will never get my vote.  I sick and tired of voting for these DINO ass hats!!!  As soon as they take office, they turn on into a freakin' small gummit Republican.....and start lashing and burning the middle class and everyone else...

  •  Whatever you do, don't hand victory to Astorino (0+ / 0-)

    I'd accept almost any deal between Cuomo and WFP, if it means keeping the GOP candidate Astorino from winning.

    A Dem-WFP split would not be a good idea from what I see. There's a lot of hate upstate against Cuomo, mainly over the NY Safe Act (gun control), and I expect a lot of energy and turnout upstate to defeat him over that. I expect Astorino to pick up a lot of those votes. Don't hand victory to him by splitting his opposition!

    See for example: http://www.rbj.net/...

    Granted, this is from a right-leaning part of the state, and the readership of this business journal is likely mainly Republican, so they're probably deluding themselves a.k.a. Fox viewers who deluded themselves into thinking Romney would win, but still, I don't want to take any chances.

    •  Those upstate votes (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      GreatLakeSailor

      against Cuomo due to the SAFE Act would have went to Astorino even without the SAFE Act.

      These are mainly red, rural upstate counties.  I know.  I'm originally from one of them, and have many family members that are all bent out of shape over the SAFE Act to the point where it looks like a case of Obama Derangement Syndrome, except it's Cuomo Derangement Syndrome.

      None of them would have voted for Cuomo anyway.

      They are deluding themselves if they think a split between Cuomo and the WFP would have let them eek out a win.  The polling from Siena doesn't show that.  Even with a liberal challenger peeling off a shit-ton of votes, Cuomos lead is still +15.

      What those idiots should have been more concerned about is that there was only a 2 point difference between the vote for Astorino and the unnamed WFP candidate - which shows how weak they actually are.  If they weren't so detached from reality, after reading that poll, they'd have been more concerned about the possibility of the WFP candidate eeking out a 2nd place finish over Astorino, relegating the GOP to minor party status.

      But if there is one thing we've learned, it's that GOPers don't know how to read and interpret polling.

      The RWNJs and Gundamentalists are no threat in this election, even with a WFP challenger.  At all.

      "There was no such thing as a "wealthy" hunter-gatherer. It is the creation of human society that has allowed the wealthy to become wealthy. As such, they have an obligation to pay a bit more to sustain that society than the not-so-wealthy." - Me

      by Darth Stateworker on Sat May 31, 2014 at 10:51:09 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I sure hope you're right about that... (0+ / 0-)

        Markos makes the point every so often that our biggest problem is turnout, our voters don't turn out especially in off-year elections.

        But the gun people are very energized. They will turn out. They turn out for rallies like this one, just a few days ago, and you can bank on every one of these people turning out to vote for Astorino.

        http://www.troyrecord.com/...

        I live in upstate. I see the yard signs. My neighbor has one, it's been out continuously since last summer.  I see a lot of them around.  These guys may be a minoroty state-wide, but I can tell you there's a lot of them, they're energized, and I'd count every one of them as a guaranteed Astorino vote.

        •  Two things (0+ / 0-)

          1.  The poll that worries is an unscientific online newspaper poll of ~700 people that you state has an audience of mostly Republicans.  It carries no weight.  I can point to a MoveOn poll of 500k people that think Cuomo should get a liberal challenger.  Still, no weight, because just like your poll, they're preaching to the choir - how many rightwingers are MoveOn members?

          2.  The poll was conducted by a paper with a Rochester area audience - an audience that Paladino overwhelmingly won last go round if I recall.  Cuomo trounced him anyway.

          Upstaters tend to ignore the sheer number of votes that come from downstate.  All of upstate above Westchester could go to Astorino, and Cuomo would still win handily.  That many votes come from downstate.

          The point Markos makes about turnout are in regards no national elections - where that is indeed a phenomenon.  However, this is a gubernatorial election, so this is not an off year in New York.  It may not be as heavy as in a presidential election, but it won't be as low as in a year where there is no gubernatorial or presidential election.  And even if it was - Cuomos polling still makes him virtually unstoppable for a weaksauce Republican like Astorino - even if he isn't as crazy as Paladino.

          Honestly, you give these gun nuts too much credit, because they don't have the power you ascribe to them in the slightest, because they don't have the numbers statewide.  Period.  Practically every other stinking house in rural New York has one of those signs.  This means nothing.  There are likely more people in a single apartment building in NYC then there are in that entire town  Like I said - I'm from upstate.  I know the lay of the land.  Just because voices are loud there doesn't mean they have all that much clout.  If they did, the SAFE Act would have never passed in the first place.  So let them squawk.

          "There was no such thing as a "wealthy" hunter-gatherer. It is the creation of human society that has allowed the wealthy to become wealthy. As such, they have an obligation to pay a bit more to sustain that society than the not-so-wealthy." - Me

          by Darth Stateworker on Sat May 31, 2014 at 11:23:45 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  You could still be right (0+ / 0-)

            but I feel more comfortable if we don't split the vote on the left. So I hope in the end Cuomo and the WFP can work out a deal.

            I agree that we're dealing with a very vocal minority, but still a minority. But I'm not quite sure I agree with one of your points that the Astorino votes would have been Astorino votes in any case. Cuomo has lost some upstate Dems and independents who are also gun owners over this.  That may not be enough to tip things, but still, he has lost support among some people upstate.

            New York has elected Republican governors in the past (it's not unusual at all), so I do worry any time I see a split happening on our side.

            •  One other point (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              charliehall2

              Even reliably Democratic New York City has elected Republican mayors.  I would never ascribe to the view that the Republicans can't win in New York.

              So far Astorino looks weak, but there's a lot of time between now and November, and I don't think it's a safe assumption that we can defeat him even if we split the Democratic and WFP vote.

              •  Can Republicans never win in New York? (0+ / 0-)

                No. And I don't think I suggested that.  Bloomberg, Giuliani, Pataki - sure they've won.

                Polls also reflected they could win.

                They don't this time.  Your fear is generated by ignoring the polling.  Stop doing that.

                "There was no such thing as a "wealthy" hunter-gatherer. It is the creation of human society that has allowed the wealthy to become wealthy. As such, they have an obligation to pay a bit more to sustain that society than the not-so-wealthy." - Me

                by Darth Stateworker on Sat May 31, 2014 at 11:43:58 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  Given that a deal has likely been struck (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              rexxnyc

              the vote likely won't get split.

              However, if it did get split, your concerns are unfounded.  Again - Cuomo wins by +15 with a liberal challenger in the mix.

              Any other governor (or any politician for that matter) would consider that a very comfortable lead.  It is only uncomfortable for Cuomo because he wants to demonstrate how strong he is to a national audience by winning the election in as large and loud a slam-dunk as he can, and this turns his showy slam dunk into an easy, routine, boring free throw.

              "There was no such thing as a "wealthy" hunter-gatherer. It is the creation of human society that has allowed the wealthy to become wealthy. As such, they have an obligation to pay a bit more to sustain that society than the not-so-wealthy." - Me

              by Darth Stateworker on Sat May 31, 2014 at 11:41:59 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Yes, it does appear a deal may be struck (0+ / 0-)

                my only point is 15% in a 3 way race may sound like a lot now, but 5 months out from the election, that could narrow.  I'd rather see a more comfortable lead (not just for Cuomo's sake, but so we can devote our energy to other races that are not as close).

                •  oops, need to proofread first (0+ / 0-)

                  I obviously didn't mean not as close, but not easy wins where our efforts can make a difference.

                •  +15 isn't eeking out a win. (0+ / 0-)

                  It's still a wide margin.

                  You're ignoring polling and reality to the point where I'm wondering if your simply doing pro Cuomo concern trolling.

                  STOP.

                  "There was no such thing as a "wealthy" hunter-gatherer. It is the creation of human society that has allowed the wealthy to become wealthy. As such, they have an obligation to pay a bit more to sustain that society than the not-so-wealthy." - Me

                  by Darth Stateworker on Sat May 31, 2014 at 01:26:17 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I still don't place as much confidence as you in (0+ / 0-)

                    that early poll.  This Quinnipiac poll places that at +13.  But this is against an unnamed WFP candidate.  I'm a bit surprised that 22% would commit themselves to an unnamed candidate, I expect that to shift once a candidate is named.  I also note from February to May, also in a Quinnnipiac poll, in a 2-way race Astorino has picked up 4% and Cuomo lost 1%.  I expect Cuomo won't pick up much more support than he has now (he's already well known), but as Astornio gets out on the campaign trail in coming months his numbers may shift.  It's harder to say where a named WFP candidate may end up, but I think it will be hard for a 3rd party to attract as much money as the major parties. With less money, I don't think a WFP candidate can be much more than a spoiler. I doubt if that candidate will top the 22% "unnamed" has now.

                    If it's Zephyr Teachout (as seems likely), I know she's a great organizer an strategist from Howard Dean's campaign.  But she's also an unknown name among most voters, and I wonder if she can attract enough support make an effective challenge against Cuomo and Astorino.

                    •  I guess I agree that Astorino isn't currently a (0+ / 0-)

                      concern no matter if WFP challenges Cuomo, as long as he stays at 24% (in the 3-way poll) or 28% (in the 2-way poll).  He would have to rise to 34% before we have to be concerned about a WFP-Dem split. (with 34% Astorino, 33% Cuomo, 33% WFP, Astorino takes it).  It's probably not likely that we see an even split between Dem-WFP, but Astornio has to pick up only about 10% from where he is today for that to start to be a concern.

    •  An Astorino agenda would be DOA (0+ / 0-)

      thanks to the 2:1 Democratic majority in the State Assembly and the tenacity of Speaker Sheldon Silver, who also owns his own Assembly seat (southern tip of Manhattan) for life.

  •  If the WFP endorses Cuomo (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    keestone, rexxnyc, Rithmck

    ...what is the point of it even existing.  

    It sounds like Cuomo will have to voice a few liberal platitudes, the WFP will endorse and Cuomo will revert to form immediately thereafter.

    As long as liberals continue to rubberstamp corporists, we will remain as politically irrelevant.

    I am an economic Keynesian, a social libertarian, a foreign policy internationalist, and militantly anti-authoritarian in every way shape and form.

    by zemongoose on Sat May 31, 2014 at 02:01:44 PM PDT

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