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Worth noting: Congress upset not told before Bergdahl swap. WH gives classified briefing. Congress immediately tells media briefing details
@WesleyLowery
Michael Madowitz on austerity:
There are three major lessons for policymakers from this research:

1. Direct government intervention during recessions, either through deficit-financed tax cuts or deficit-financed increases in government spending, is a more powerful tool for fighting recessions than we realized before the Great Recession.

2. In a slack economy, or one that is operating below its potential, austerity—taking money out of the economy to balance government budgets—is especially bad policy. Whether via tax hikes or cuts in government spending, contracting the government’s budget during a recession reduces gross domestic product, or GDP, by more than the size of the cuts—possibly as much as three times more.

3. The costs of doing nothing can be permanent and much higher than we previously thought: U.S. GDP is currently 10 percent below its prerecession 2014 projection, and many economists believe that we have reached a new normal. If this is true, austerity could cost the U.S. economy more than $1 trillion in economic activity every year, even after we have fully recovered from the Great Recession.

Dave Weigel:
Here’s How Quickly Conservatives Turned on Bowe Bergdahl
Superior thread of responses from Black Kos Re: reparations. First one on how to organize is exceptional. http://t.co/...
@tanehisicoates
Brad Plumer:
One of the most confusing aspects of the Environmental Protection Agency's big new proposal to cut carbon-dioxide emissions from US power plants is that it appears to treat every state in a wildly different fashion.

At first glance, for instance, it looks like Arizona and Washington have to cut their emissions far more deeply than, say, Kentucky or West Virginia by 2030. And it's not at all obvious why that would be.

So it's worth walking step-by-step through the process of how the EPA's power-plant rules will actually work — and why it's surprisingly difficult to figure out which states will get hit hardest or have to make the biggest changes:

More politics and policy below the fold.

Olivier Knox:

Retired Gen. Stanley McChrystal on Wednesday urged Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl’s critics not to “judge” him until all the facts are in and sharply defended the extensive and risky search efforts that claimed the lives of some of his fellow soldiers.
“We did a huge number of operations to try to stop the Taliban from being able to move him across the border into Pakistan,” McChrystal told Yahoo News in an exclusive interview. “And we made a great effort and put a lot of people at risk in doing that, but that’s what you should do. That’s what soldiers do for each other.”
AP:
The announcement that the U.S. government had secured the release of missing U.S. Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl and that it was freeing five senior Taliban figures from Guantanamo Bay has been portrayed first and foremost as a prisoner exchange. But the four-year history of secret dialogue that led to Saturday's release suggests that the main goal of each side may have been far more sweeping.

It was about setting the stage for larger discussions on a future peaceful Afghanistan.

Funny piece from Jeremy Shapiro about how think tanks work:
At the appointed hour, an officious staffer arrives to announce that “He” (the lead government official goes only by personal pronoun—names are unnecessary at this level) is unfortunately delayed at another meeting on the urgent international crisis of the day, but will arrive just as soon as he can get break away from the president in the Situation Room. He is, in fact, just reading email, but his long career has taught him the advantage of making people wait.
I have been to a handful of these, and this is how it goes down.

Claire McCarthy MD:

It got me thinking about the families I see who choose not to immunize their children. While I think that vaccines are a great idea and have immunized my children, I respect every family's right to make the medical decisions that they think best for their children. And while I think that the recommended vaccine schedule is safe, I am always willing to work with families if they really want to do something different. Better to have some vaccinations, or vaccinations on a different schedule, than none at all.

But when I read about the resurgence of vaccine-preventable diseases like measles, polio or pertussis, I worry -- and wish that there wasn't so much fear about vaccines. Here are the most common reasons I hear for refusing or delaying vaccines:

Maria Puente on why you should listen to doctors and not celebrities about science:
Gwyneth Paltrow says bad thoughts can alter water. Huh?
Maggie Fox:
A retired serviceman who lovingly tended his drippy-nosed camels was almost certainly infected with MERS by one of them, Saudi researchers say in a report that makes the first direct link between camels and the mysterious virus.

Genetic tests show the man, who died last November, was infected by a virus identical to the one affecting his small herd of camels.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Greg, you're killing me here. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    eeff, a2nite, gffish

    Are you trying to get yourself drummed out of the Democratic party?

    From one article, you highlight TWO references to the evils of raising taxes in a weak economy:

    1. Direct government intervention during recessions, either through deficit-financed tax cuts or deficit-financed increases in government spending, is a more powerful tool for fighting recessions than we realized before the Great Recession.
    2. In a slack economy, or one that is operating below its potential, austerity—taking money out of the economy to balance government budgets—is especially bad policy. Whether via tax hikes or cuts in government spending
    Worse, these suggest that Bush might have been on to something.  By going to war and cutting taxes, he may have kept the economy from committing suicide for a while.  Admittedly, his policies were kind of tough for the dead and injured...

    LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

    by dinotrac on Thu Jun 05, 2014 at 04:39:19 AM PDT

    •  during recessions (12+ / 0-)

      key term. Doesn't follow that it is for all situations.

      "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!" — Upton Sinclair

      by Greg Dworkin on Thu Jun 05, 2014 at 04:51:07 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Bush did more wealth transfer from us to the evil (7+ / 0-)

      .1%.  

      He didn't help "the economy".

      I voted Tuesday, May 6, 2014 because it is my right, my responsibility and because my parents moved from Alabama to Ohio to vote. Unfortunately, the republicons want to turn Ohio into Alabama.

      by a2nite on Thu Jun 05, 2014 at 04:54:45 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  upside down world (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Terrapin, Just Bob, glitterscale
      he may have kept the economy from committing suicide for a while
      Just like how he kept terrorists from destroying the WTC for a while. And how he kept New Orleans from being flooded for a while. And how he didn't lie our country into an unnecessary war of aggression for a while. The list of things Bush did for a while is long and depressing.

      But, more importantly, you've fallen into the mirror image trap of lazy thinking.

      You think that Democrats are mirror image Republicans. Republicans are ideologically opposed to raising taxes, so that must mean Democrats are ideologically opposed to lowering them.

      That's not how it works.

      •  One man's lazy thinking is another's considered (0+ / 0-)

        view.

        Democrats are not mirror image Republicans.  Wish they were.  They are more or less Republicans with different constituencies.  Either way, ordinary Americans get screwed.

        LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

        by dinotrac on Thu Jun 05, 2014 at 05:19:03 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  how does that apply to what you said? (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Hoghead99, I love OCD
          Democrats are not mirror image Republicans.  Wish they were.  They are more or less Republicans with different constituencies.  Either way, ordinary Americans get screwed.
          And it's all kabuki theater, I am sure. The only thing left to do is howl.

          But that's not what you said.

          You said that Democrats are ideologically opposed to tax cuts. Your considered opinion is plain wrong.

          One of the best parts of Obama's stimulus package was the payroll tax cut.

          And that was a tax cut that the Republicans were happy to let expire. Because in the face of the worst recession since the Great Depression, the Republicans were obsessed with balancing the budget.

          •  Democrats are ideologically opposed to tax cuts. (0+ / 0-)

            Doesn't mean they'll never do one for political purposes, even if they kick and scream along the way.

            So, yeah, we got 2% for two years as a "payroll tax holiday", which is what it was officially called.

            One of the drivers for the 2010 disaster was the Democrats' complete refusal to do anything about the expiring middle class tax cuts before the election.  Even a hamster could figure that one out, but Democrats were cocky and didn't think they had to stoop to such populist maneuvering.

            They did a little bit of "Ya sure, we'll do somethin' 'bout that. You betcha" talking, but never did actually did anything until after the disaster had already hit.  Considering that taxes were and are the most consistent Tea Party drumbeat, it's damned difficult for a reasonable person to believe that made no difference.

            LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

            by dinotrac on Thu Jun 05, 2014 at 06:38:23 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  evidence? Who needs evidence? (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              red rabbit
              Considering that taxes were and are the most consistent Tea Party drumbeat, it's damned difficult for a reasonable person to believe that made no difference.
              Considering that your premise is wrong it's hard to believe your conclusion. This is what happens when you think with your gut.

              The Tea Party was never about tax cuts. It wasn't about policy. It was always about limiting government power. Because FREEDUM! (Also because You-Know-Who in the White House is a You-Know-What)

              The Democrats lost in 2010 because they (like you) thought the Tea Party was about tax cuts.

              Democrats failed to articulate a strong defense of the positive role of government in all our lives and instead did the triangulation dance to try to figure out which policy would make voters happiest. But 2010 wasn't about policy, it was about vision.

              •  Of fine. Of course -- we know everybody likes to (0+ / 0-)

                see their taxes go up.

                Yeah, sure. Ask Walter Mondale about that. I'm sure he'll back you up.

                So, I was probably the only person in the entire  country who was not happy that Democrats were going to let my taxes increase significantly.

                Wouldn't be the first time I was an outlier.

                LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

                by dinotrac on Thu Jun 05, 2014 at 07:15:15 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  oh look dino says dems suck again (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              askew

              quoting lines from his book of "I say it so therefore it is so"

              It's been explained to you that Dems aren't ideologically opposed to tax cuts, and what do you predictably do?  Explain it away with some pathetic lame-ass version of "well that doesn't really count".  Oh, and actually trying some sort of defense of Bush's economic policies and wars?  Double pathetic.  
              You just can't bring your fat old attention-starved ass to ever hold Republicans responsible for anything, there's gotta be a way to spin it into some sort of attack against Dems.  Triple pathetic.  At least you've proven one thing.

              •  Oh look! We get little bunny turds. Glad to see (0+ / 0-)

                you could make it to the show.

                So, what is your reasonable explanation for why Democrats, with an election looming, did nothing to keep taxes from increasing for the vast majority of Americans prior to the 2010 elections?

                They WANTED to lose?

                LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

                by dinotrac on Thu Jun 05, 2014 at 07:16:45 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

        •  no it's just you being lazy (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          askew, glitterscale

          and entirely predictable by trying to shift blame from Republicans and spin everything as being Democrats' fault.  You've failed again, but I'm sure you'll continue to tell yourself that you're some sort of enlightened source of reason and intelligent debate.  
          You're nothing but a pathetic Republican apologist who only gets attention by trolling a Democratic website.  That's much closer to the truth than your bullshit about what Democrats supposedly do or don't believe.

      •  GWB also deserted his military (12+ / 0-)

        duty for a while.

        "Do the best you can until you know better. Then when you know better, do better.: Maya Angelou

        by PsychoSavannah on Thu Jun 05, 2014 at 05:27:30 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  The other key is WHO you are taxing. Tax the Ro... (7+ / 0-)

      The other key is WHO you are taxing. Tax the Romneys, not the J. Q. Public.

      •  Tax J.Q. Public. We all have a responsibility as (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        a2nite, skohayes, Sylv, Arfeeto, gffish

        citizens.  But make the rich folks pay like the rest of us.  It still grinds me that Romney was proud to have paid 13% of his income in taxes -- less than a minimum wage worker pays for Social Security and Medicare taxes when you include the so-called employer's share.

        LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

        by dinotrac on Thu Jun 05, 2014 at 05:30:18 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Dude, read the article (0+ / 0-)

      It's really good and is talking about stimulus vs austerity at a very high level.  Quibbling over what form the stimulus takes is not the point of the article.

      Clearly, what has happened is that the use of the word Gestapo has clouded my message.
      - Maine Gov. Paul LePage

      by clinging to hope on Thu Jun 05, 2014 at 10:48:58 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Ah grasshopper (0+ / 0-)
      Direct government intervention during recessions, either through deficit-financed tax cuts or deficit-financed increases in government spending, is a more powerful tool for fighting recessions than we realized before the Great Recession.
      is basically Keynesian theory verified.
      Direct government intervention during recessions, either through deficit-financed tax cuts or deficit-financed increases in government spending, is a more powerful tool for fighting recessions than we realized before the Great Recession.
      This is why the austerity measures for the European PIG group is counterproductive, but makes Germany happy cause they aint having any.

      ALL of our institutions have been hollowed out by the greed ethos. There are none left with heart intact or souls for that matter. So the zombie is all around us - me

      by glitterscale on Thu Jun 05, 2014 at 05:56:14 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Disgraced Lara Logan Goes Back To Work At CBS (14+ / 0-)

    I wonder if she will do a 60 Minutes "expose" on Sgt Bergdahl now?

  •  Making people wait to establish dominance (8+ / 0-)

    Re Jeremy Shapiro's piece:

    In the tech world where I work, if anyone is habitually late, the rest of us start looking for someone else to take over part of their work, since obviously they don't have time for it. If we thought someone was playing head games by deliberately making us wait, I think we'd all refuse to deal with them. It's not nearly as great a sin as falsifying data, but it's bad.

    So clearly I'm not suited to work in the worlds of business or politics, where (I gather) mental/emotional dominance games are required to get ahead. That's fine with me.

    I once heard a tech person explain that he NEVER wears a business suit when talking to businessmen. Instead he wears high end casual. He said they notice the quality & style of the clothing and react to him as someone of taste who is entirely outside their hierarchy & above the need to "dress for success".

  •  Ms. Paltrow is probably also a creationist! nt (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    gffish
    •  Reminds me of yesterday. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      gffish

      Some Facebook Liberarian who's far too hip and oh so too intellectual for both religion and Liberalism refered to Global Warming as "Greenpeace Creationism".

      Because he says he's done his own research. Probably reading op/eds at Reason and its poorer step-sisters....

      "If this Studebaker had anymore Atomic Space-Age Style, you'd have to be an astronaut with a geiger counter!"

      by Stude Dude on Thu Jun 05, 2014 at 06:24:34 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Do efforts to drive traffic to this website (0+ / 0-)

    owner's other (and more blatantly commercial) website(s) deserve a disclaimer?

    Just wondering how that works . .. .

    •  ? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Just Bob

      what are you referring to?

      "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!" — Upton Sinclair

      by Greg Dworkin on Thu Jun 05, 2014 at 04:52:45 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  out of context hard to answer (0+ / 0-)

        but links are part of the internet, so maybe not.

        "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!" — Upton Sinclair

        by Greg Dworkin on Thu Jun 05, 2014 at 04:58:04 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  The link to Vox Media (0+ / 0-)
        Vox Media Inc. (previously known as Sports Blogs, Inc and publicly known as Vox) is an American digital media company that currently has seven editorial brands: SB Nation, The Verge, Polygon, Curbed, Eater, and Racked. The latest of them is "Vox.com" (formerly codenamed "Project X"), launched on April 6, 2014. All Vox Media sites are built on Chorus, its proprietary digital publishing platform.[2]

        Vox is headquartered near DuPont Circle, Washington, D.C and across from Bryant Park, in New York City. Founded in 2003 as SportsBlogs, Inc., by political strategist Jerome Armstrong, freelance writer Tyler Bleszinski and Markos Moulitsas (creator of Daily Kos), the network now features over 300 sites with over 400 paid writers.[3][4]

        link

        To me it kinda gives the appearance of a COI linking to this w/o any acknowledge that it's a sister site of sorts, and that driving traffic there will financially benefit THIS site's owner.

        Not that there's anything wrong with that, I'm just thinking full disclosure is in order.

  •  Paltrow's thoughts about magic water . . . . . (11+ / 0-)

    are, sadly, no more silly than those held by "homeopathy" quacks and true believers.

    Alas, we live in a nation where medieval anti-science dumbassery like this doesn't even raise an eyebrow.

    (sigh)

    In the end, reality always wins.

    by Lenny Flank on Thu Jun 05, 2014 at 04:49:06 AM PDT

  •  Thanks for the AP link (14+ / 0-)

    Not surprising, President Obama looking at the long-term gains again.
    The Bowe Bergdahl story is so out of hand (how far out? his dad wouldn't even pass security to get into a state dinner and the President lets him in the Whitehouse!!! says Scarborough) - it's an amazing study of how quickly bullshit can fly in the age of the internet. It's the old game of telephone times infinity.

    •  Truly astounding (7+ / 0-)

      diatribes from nonmilitary people, made out of whole cloth speculation and hate dripping commentary.  My internet feeds are a buzz with the hate.  If they could step back and see the very stupidity they display the embarrassment would drive them to bed for a month.

      Everyone! Arms akimbo! 68351

      by tobendaro on Thu Jun 05, 2014 at 05:26:22 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Look at this comment to me yesterday: (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        tobendaro, Stude Dude, gffish, hulibow, askew
        Of course you would side with him.. (0+ / 0-)
        Whatever he did is ok with you as long as it is against his oath. FUBAR?  Good enough for you!

        Folks like you are unbelievable.  You will search and search for anything to excuse this POS.. FUBAR unit?  Good enough for you to betray his unit!

        by JJ In Illinois on Wed Jun 04, 2014 at 11:03:49 PM CDT

        http://www.dailykos.com/...

        JJ "heard" that Bergdahl had "sought out the Taliban". When I showed him evidence that he had been captured less than 48 hours after leaving his unit, this is the response I got.

        If trees gave off WIFi signals, we would probably plant so many trees, we would save the planet. Too bad they only produce the oxygen we breathe.

        by skohayes on Thu Jun 05, 2014 at 05:52:49 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Somehow (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          skohayes, gffish, hulibow, I love OCD

          all these people are in the know, they know everything! I got the stupid Allan West on my fb page with the commenters agreeing whole heartedly with that yahoo! One guy, who I am sure never stepped foot out of our state, knows that other countries hate Obama and call him weak!! He knows for sure what other nations think!!  All of them! People are just dumb and they are haters of America.  It is obvious to me.  I posted the AP article with a comment refuting the bs from yesterday.  Not that it will help but at least I got some info out there.

          Everyone! Arms akimbo! 68351

          by tobendaro on Thu Jun 05, 2014 at 06:00:27 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Thanks for posting the Ta-Nehisi Coates (12+ / 0-)

    tweet about the Black Kos forum

    "If you're in a coalition and you're comfortable, you know it's not a broad enough coalition." Dr. Bernice Johnson Reagon

    by Denise Oliver Velez on Thu Jun 05, 2014 at 04:53:52 AM PDT

  •  ... (10+ / 0-)
    On Sunday, John Oliver asked the internet's trolls to let the FCC know how they felt about Net Neutrality. They did. http://t.co/...
    @tldr

    "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!" — Upton Sinclair

    by Greg Dworkin on Thu Jun 05, 2014 at 04:57:07 AM PDT

  •  Gwyneth Paltrow needs to stop talking w/t a script (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    a2nite, Stude Dude, gffish, askew, ebohlman

    and one of her highly paid PR flacks needs to tell her that.
    She's what happens when you're basically uneducated and a complete airhead whose spent their whole life in a bubble of privilege and had zero interaction with regular people and ordinary life except for signing autographs and talking to the help.

  •  Gheist on Morning Joke inre Bergdahl....'Now that (6+ / 0-)

    we have all the facts on the table.'.......musta been a snark.

  •  Stupid famous people opening their big mouths are (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Stude Dude

    One of the reasons we can't have nice things.

    I'm tired of a stupid woman with big fake boobs slinging her misinformation. What the fuck does she know.

    Slut shaming yes & I am a slut.

    I voted Tuesday, May 6, 2014 because it is my right, my responsibility and because my parents moved from Alabama to Ohio to vote. Unfortunately, the republicons want to turn Ohio into Alabama.

    by a2nite on Thu Jun 05, 2014 at 05:11:39 AM PDT

    •  There are some people who believe (0+ / 0-)

      our thoughts influence our bodies, and we're not owners of fake boobs.  I believe the root cause of heart disease is self-rejection, not cholesterol or sugar or even smoking.  Why does that make me an air headed slut?  My sister is fully recovered from Stage IV breast cancer because she refused to believe cancer was more powerful than her body is.  Her doctors changed her treatment protocols 3 times as she defied their belief systems.  I'm not anti-science, I'm pro-holistic.  Ignoring the energy flow of our thoughts and beliefs and how they affect our reality is as closed-minded as ignoring the damages done to our bodies by fracking chemicals, DDT, pharmaceuticals.  It's important to see ourselves as complex systems .  

      I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

      by I love OCD on Thu Jun 05, 2014 at 10:28:11 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The problem with this line of reasoning (0+ / 0-)

        is that there's no way to escape the fact that it logically implies that the person who, say, develops Stage IV breast cancer and dies of it must not have tried hard enough, must not have thought the right thoughts, etc. Ultimately, it becomes a way for those who are merely lucky to build themselves up by putting down those who are merely unlucky. It's really taking the concept of personal responsibility into, and beyond, Ayn Rand territory. You make your sister sound like she's to health what John David Galt is to wealth.

        Unfortunately when smart and educated people get crazy ideas they can come up with plausibly truthy arguments. -- Andrew F Cockburn

        by ebohlman on Thu Jun 05, 2014 at 03:22:22 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  No, she worked her ass off, eating right, (0+ / 0-)

          meditating, walking, doing Yoga, and building her own immune system.  She took supplements specifically geared to bring her body's resources to bear.  She also refused to be scared of cancer.  I thought I mentioned a holistic approach, you may have missed that.  I also lost a sister to breast cancer, 20 years ago when treatments were more destructive and less targeted.  My point is that we are body, mind, and spirit completely intertwined, inseparable, and knowing that doesn't make anyone an air headed ditz.  YMMV.

          I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

          by I love OCD on Thu Jun 05, 2014 at 10:38:35 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Stay classy, Republicans (11+ / 0-)

    They spent a lot of time, money and effort on the campaign to denounce the return of POW Bergdahl.  They weren't going to let an opportunity to trash the President's effort go to waste even if it did hurt a soldier, his family and his hometown and left the rest of us bewildered over their reaction.  What used to be the 'country club' party is now the yokel party.

    Don't look back, something may be gaining on you. - L. "Satchel" Paige

    by arlene on Thu Jun 05, 2014 at 05:19:20 AM PDT

    •  I don't really think they're the "yokel" party (8+ / 0-)

      They just play yokels on tv.  They are, fundamentally, the billionaire's party, and, in their drive to discredit President Obama,they carefully cultivate racists, CT nuts, the ignorant, anti-science rubes, Christian fundamentalists and "regular guy" talking heads to get their dirty work done.

      What is particularly repulsive about this latest episode is that although they did

      hurt a soldier, his family and his hometown
      it still won't stop them from claiming the patriotic, pro-military mantle they wear.  Really, what they care about is having wars to fatten the MIC.  Soldiers?  Fuck 'em!  Like proclaiming freedom for white folks to carry (and use) guns is really about fattening the gun industry. Dead children? Fuck 'em! And encouraging "job creating" filthy energy sources is about fattening Big Energy.  Townspeople sickened by poisoned water? Fuck 'em.

      In the end, they are completely unconcerned for any human beings that might be trampled along the way to further enriching the already rich.  They are a cruel lot.

      "It ain't right, Atticus," said Jem. "No, son, it ain't right." --Harper Lee, To Kill a Mockingbird

      by SottoVoce on Thu Jun 05, 2014 at 05:33:32 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Isn't it equally plausible (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tb mare
    Genetic tests show the man, who died last November, was infected by a virus identical to the one affecting his small herd of camels.
    .
    that he gave the virus to his camels??

    As my father used to say,"We have the best government money can buy."

    by BPARTR on Thu Jun 05, 2014 at 06:40:46 AM PDT

  •  Vaccines should be mandatory... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ebohlman

    for anyone that is not allergic.  Vaccines are a public health issue and every parent that doesn't vaccinate their kids not only puts their own children at risk, but also put people with compromised immune systems or legitimate vaccine allergies at risk.  

    It is now very, very clear that vaccines DO NOT CAUSE AUTISM. The original study that stated that the did was a scam by someone that was trying to sell alternative vaccine ingredients.  

  •  Excellent post from Brad Plumer--thx for the link! (0+ / 0-)
    One of the most confusing aspects of the Environmental Protection Agency's big new proposal to cut carbon-dioxide emissions from US power plants is that it appears to treat every state in a wildly different fashion....
    It sure was confusing, until I read the article. Very nice treatment--and the EPA appears to made a very reasonable, justifiable proposal.

    We've just got to start tuning out conservative caterwauling (while still explaining why it's wrong to the general public). It's just what conservatives do to anything their opponents propose.

    "Push the button, Max!" Jack Lemmon as Professor Fate, The Great Race

    by bartcopfan on Thu Jun 05, 2014 at 08:23:31 AM PDT

  •  Response to Claire McCarthy (0+ / 0-)

    1. These illnesses are rare.

    There is an argument that many of these diseases would have dissipated on their own. We have seen that in the historical trend charts of just about every disease. Better diets and a stronger immune system could be the reason. This is likely one reason we see high death rates in India.

    I don't see McCarthy can claim that vaccines provide herd immunity when the effectiveness does not last and the booster shots have even a shorter lifespan.

    2. These illnesses aren't all that bad.

    It depends on what you are comparing them to. I would rather my son go through a case of the mumps, which is a very benign disease at a young age, then end up with a seizure or encephalitis that can be a side effect with the MMR vaccine. Plus, getting mumps later in life is much riskier than when you are young, and as we saw from Ohio State, the mumps vaccine is certainly not 100%. Having the mumps does provide you with lifetime immunity. The vaccine does not.

    3. Vaccines cause autism.

    We simply don't know regardless of what Greg and others state on this website. A connection has not been proven, but autism has reached an epidemic level and more analysis needs to be done.

    There might be other factors that cause autism, but I don't see how we can rule out a vaccine-autism connection, since we have no long term studies of 50 doses in children and the effects. Of all of the adjuvants in a vaccine, only a few were tested to see if they could cause autism. Plus, we need to see if multiple vaccines given at such a young age can create a cumulative effect.

    If the CDC were truly interested is seeing if there was not a link, then a study could be easily provided. There are many parents that would line up for the vaccine-free group.

    4. Vaccines have side effects.

    The big difference here from "other medical treatments" and vaccines is that we are taking an infant that is in perfect health and possibly introducing illnesses into him. That is a big difference and one that a parent (or a person) should have every right to exercise their freedom not to participate in.

    5. The preservatives in vaccines are dangerous.

    Well, they are. It is interesting that she used aluminum in feeding solutions as an example of why preservatives are not dangerous to a child. There is a big difference between ingesting aluminum and having it injected into your body.

    One analysis (1997) was done in a comparison of IV feeding solutions between preems in a hospital study. It was found that children that received 10 micrograms of aluminum in their IV feeding solutions displayed a higher level of impaired neurologic development.

    http://www.nejm.org/...

    To put this into comparison with vaccines, the feeding solution contained 10 micrograms of aluminum. One shot of Pediarix (DTaP, Hep B and Polio combo vaccine) contains 850 micrograms. That is a single shot. Just about every vaccine contains aluminum, so over the first few years of life, we are talking about injecting infants with close to 3,500 micrograms.

    From the AAP:

    The AAP found that people with kidney disease who build up levels of aluminum greater than 100 micrograms per liter in their bloodstream are at risk of toxicity.
    6. It's a conspiracy

    I would say that when we have CDC leaders that are allowed to go back and forth between industry and government, that our children are not being represented in a fair manner.

    7. I trust my family, friends and community more than my doctor.

    False equivalency. Doctors are very limited in what they know about vaccinations, other than the schedules and the diseases they treat. I would rather rely on the studies I read in conjunction with the doctor's advice.

    •  this is untrue stuff, mostly (0+ / 0-)

      1. there is no credible argument these illness would dissipate on their own. Please do us  favor and link to one. We are in fact seeing a resurgence of illnesses like measles precisely because folks are going unvaccinated. That is a hard fact.

      2.  These illnesses aren't bad at all. Unless, of course, you get it and you get sick from it. People can and do die from these illnesses. Tough to be trying to put a 'not so bad' label, though they don't all have the same severity.

      3. Vaccines do not cause autism. That argument is over. People who push it just discredit themselves.  

      4. Vaccines do have side effects, mostly minor. But you're right the ultimate decision is a parent's.

      5. The preservatives in vaccines are not dangerous. That's BS.

      6. This is one of the biggest BS pieces in all of anti-vax postings. There is no conspiracy other than CDC wanting kids vaccinated and companies preferring to make a profit. But there's nothing hidden about that.

      7.  "I trust my family, friends and community more than my doctor." YMMV. I don't know your family or your doctor, so maybe in your case it's wise.  But I doubt it.

      The thing I like about McCarthy's piece is that it hit all the bullshit. So did you, but in your defense you were just answering.

      The one issue I have with docs is no one should claim that the vaccines always work, they make you disease proof or that there can't be RARE side effects (when compared with these common diseases).

      But the days of just letting bullshit about vaccines slide is long gone.  new outbreaks of old diseases just drive home that point.

      "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!" — Upton Sinclair

      by Greg Dworkin on Thu Jun 05, 2014 at 03:35:57 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Aluminum study (0+ / 0-)
        5. The preservatives in vaccines are not dangerous. That's BS.
        If that is the best comment you have, then you have proven my point that pediatricians  generally do not research the vaccines closely enough to understand the dangers.

        I provided a 1) well-documented study on the effects of aluminum and 2) referenced the organization that you are part of showing the dangers of aluminum, and 3) I also provided specific amounts of aluminum that are found in the very vaccines that we give to children when compared to the study.

        Can you say you were honestly aware of all three data points?

        This connection between aluminum and  impaired neurologic development should be further researched. It can be easily done, but the question is why hasn't it. Show me a study that compares children taking over 3 milligrams of aluminum in a three year period with those that have not had vaccinations.

        There should be no acceptable reason that we aren't running every possible analysis we can to ensure that none of these adjuvants (especially over time) cause harm to our children, especially since they have no say in the decision to receive a vaccination.

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