Skip to main content

What drives a young couple to embrace reactionary violence against innocents?

Tragedy does.

This piece from Mother Jones is a must read.

I have not seen a dentists in 14 years.  I take good care of my teeth.  The job market has been horrible.  The few temporary jobs i find havent been able to earn me enough money to go see a dentist.  Since I dont have insurance or medicaid the cost is around 500 to 1000 dollars.  So as I sit here in agony, taking the penasilin the ER perscribed me I contemplate the state of things here in the good old USA.  How the Gov. spends billions of dollars on the war on drugs and all these missles and bombs to kill people.  I think about all that money that could do to helping people instead.  Creating jobs, creating happy, healthy people.  I dont want a hand out.  I just need a foundation to stand on.  One that wont be pulled out from under me as soon as i step up on it.  I’m a 29 year old american who has never once had a good enough job to have health insurance……………. I dont know what else to say.

Humans,

we are all humans.

we humans in America have been raised with a sense of divine right.  We are proud of our country, our families and ourselves.  We know that we deserve all that is good in this life.

what happens when our economic base is stripped away from our communities and our families?

what happens when our education system is cut and distorted and classroom occupancies go past 30 children per teacher?

what happens when we cannot find a job and our health care system is simply a way to attack the middle class, and force the extraction of wealth from the parents of sick children?

what happens in the face of unsurmountable tragedy?

Yesterday is what happens.

A moving and human story is being told.  One of a young couple that was removed from the good things in this world by economic and societal forces.

An injustice of being convicted of a drug-war felony for a victimless crime.

The loss of the means to provide for yourself and your spouse.

The perceived loss of freedoms supposedly established by the U.S. Constitution.

The sense of tragedy that shows that there is nothing left to lose.

Do you think that it can't happen to you?  To your children?

this is the reality facing 40% of America today.  

this is the reality of our corporate-dominated class-warfare driven plutocratic government.

I cannot condone the murder of innocents.

Just like I cannot condone the situational violence that is spreading like a cancer throughout our entire society.

Sadly, I fear that this is just the beginning.

-

3:16 PM PT: Since many are quick to judge and won't bother reading the linked article I want to share a bit more from it:  

Things are never as simplistic as they seem:

Miller's last posted on Infowars on August 7, 2012, publishing a sci-fi-esque short story about a father and son contemplating fighting the government. In this tale, the father tells his son, "It is our respon[s]ibility to care for everything around us because its in our power to do so. They would seek to destroy and exterminate and abuse. They would taint the water as they did before. Son, I cant tell you how precious life is."

4:03 PM PT: beware the parasites among us.

EMAIL TO A FRIEND X
Your Email has been sent.
You must add at least one tag to this diary before publishing it.

Add keywords that describe this diary. Separate multiple keywords with commas.
Tagging tips - Search For Tags - Browse For Tags

?

More Tagging tips:

A tag is a way to search for this diary. If someone is searching for "Barack Obama," is this a diary they'd be trying to find?

Use a person's full name, without any title. Senator Obama may become President Obama, and Michelle Obama might run for office.

If your diary covers an election or elected official, use election tags, which are generally the state abbreviation followed by the office. CA-01 is the first district House seat. CA-Sen covers both senate races. NY-GOV covers the New York governor's race.

Tags do not compound: that is, "education reform" is a completely different tag from "education". A tag like "reform" alone is probably not meaningful.

Consider if one or more of these tags fits your diary: Civil Rights, Community, Congress, Culture, Economy, Education, Elections, Energy, Environment, Health Care, International, Labor, Law, Media, Meta, National Security, Science, Transportation, or White House. If your diary is specific to a state, consider adding the state (California, Texas, etc). Keep in mind, though, that there are many wonderful and important diaries that don't fit in any of these tags. Don't worry if yours doesn't.

You can add a private note to this diary when hotlisting it:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from your hotlist?
Are you sure you want to remove your recommendation? You can only recommend a diary once, so you will not be able to re-recommend it afterwards.
Rescue this diary, and add a note:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from Rescue?
Choose where to republish this diary. The diary will be added to the queue for that group. Publish it from the queue to make it appear.

You must be a member of a group to use this feature.

Add a quick update to your diary without changing the diary itself:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary?
(The diary will be removed from the site and returned to your drafts for further editing.)
(The diary will be removed.)
Are you sure you want to save these changes to the published diary?

Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mr Robert

    Be the change that you want to see in the world

    by New Minas on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 02:29:45 PM PDT

  •  Give us a break. (7+ / 0-)

    He blamed blacks and Jews for his lack of health care, and was a crazed right-wing Tea Party gun nut and murderer of innocents. He is not someone you should use as example in trying to make any point.

    •  once again (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mookins

      your personal hate-speech bleeds into one of my diaries.

      It is the situational violence that leads people to become heavily indoctrinated reactionaries.

      this is the lesson of post WW I Germany.

      Be the change that you want to see in the world

      by New Minas on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 03:02:01 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  This asshole was a Tea Partier (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        doroma

        who posted that Obama is a socialist tyrant. It is precisely because of people like him that we have no universal health care. He was no victim.

        •  what do you think (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mookins

          makes people be that way?

          do you suppose that the tea party "patriots" were "born bad"?

          It isn't the indoctrinated masses who believe that Obama is a muslim who are at fault.  It is the hundreds  of millions of dollars of fascist propaganda being pushed into complicit media outlets that are driving the reactionary agenda.

          do you really think the Bundy ranch would not have happened without Alex jones and Fox news?

          Be the change that you want to see in the world

          by New Minas on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 03:12:56 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  This is true (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        New Minas, mookins

        many of our anti government hate groups grew from the farm crisis in the mid west during the 90s.

        A fair amount of my neighbors belong to the tea party because they were plunged into poverty by the stroke of a government pen. They used to be democrats who believed in social responsibility to others. They still have the responsibility but they no longer trust the government to handle it. It did a poor job for them.

        It is the heart that makes a man rich. He is rich according to what he is not what he has -Henry Ward Beecher

        by PSWaterspirit on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 04:25:16 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Seeking One and Only One Cause, the Individual, (6+ / 0-)

      is a classic rightwing fallacy, well it would be a fallacy except that it's essential to their philosophy of privatizing the commons and liberating the rich.

      We have multiple needs however, so we can and must look at societal problems (contrary to Margaret Thatcher, many of believe there in fact is such a thing as society) from different angles.

      For the purposes of criminal justice and prosecution sure the individual is the actor and deserves the criminal penalties, absent legal mental illness.

      But for the purposes of society we look at the ways society is being run, and the forces within it. In this case the libertarian movement, religious fundamentalism, and weapons fanaticism are are all movements that have been historically small to tiny, that have been cultivated during decades of heavy organizing and financial investment by some among the super rich.

      One or a thousand violent armed couples, like a few thousand Islamic terrorists, are not a threat to the American nation state. That's a law enforcement problem. But a few dozen billionaires coordinating to make millions of armed fanatics irate, and legislatively repealing a century of progress all over the country, that's a threat to national security and an entire society.

      We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

      by Gooserock on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 03:21:33 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Exactly. --Just like they did with the brownshirts (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        LiberalLoner, mookins

        in WWI Germany.

        This is reactionary politics.  They are scared and know that the game is up.

        it is a VERY dangerous time to be an American.

        Be the change that you want to see in the world

        by New Minas on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 03:26:43 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  How much money was Dinesh D'souza (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        LiberalLoner, mookins

        paid by the "Charles Koch Foundation" (now called CATO)

        to publish a book and movie series about how Obama is a secret muslim terrorist born in Kenya and raised by Marxists as a "Manchurian Candidate".

        we laughed at those who would believe it, but they were so well financed, there were so many others in the rightwing/fascist media echo chamber to follow it up. . .

        more and more started to believe it.

        It is a sickness, a mass movement of hysteria and craziness and fear and violence.

        it is a reactionary movement.

        bred for only one purpose.

        the complete dismantling of the U.S. middle class into a proletariat ruled by plutocrats.

        Be the change that you want to see in the world

        by New Minas on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 03:30:18 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Lacked healthcare for many years (7+ / 0-)

    Have some major chronic health conditions that keep me from working. Still manage to raise two good kids well below poverty level and haven't killed anyone yet.

    I think thou doth protest too much. There's other stuff going on here, there nothing justified in murdering others.

    "Madness! Total and complete madness! This never would've happened if the humans hadn't started fighting one another!" Londo Mollari

    by FloridaSNMOM on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 02:58:30 PM PDT

    •  There's a reason we have no universal (0+ / 0-)

      health care. The reason is that there is a political brand very popular with many people that fights against anything they deem socialism. And this guy was part of that group. He's not some innocent victim of ruthless corporations. He and millions of Americans like him are WHY we have so few social services.

    •  If you are below poverty level (0+ / 0-)

      then you qualify for Medicaid.

      so you have health care, albeit not good health care.

      I agree that there is nothing that justifies it, I am not justifying it.  

      I am showing that it is the situational violence that is inherent in our system that is going to produce more and more extremism in the form of reactionary violence.

      This person is a product of our society.  This is why we are trying to make it a better society.

      it is the fascist forces of middle-class warfare that is trying to cause us to devolve into these heavily indoctrinated camps.

      without education, with no real way out, even good people can be converted to violence.  It has happened before and, sadly, it will happen again.

      Be the change that you want to see in the world

      by New Minas on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 03:05:03 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  So you're claiming that a toothache is (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        FloridaSNMOM

        a rational for situational violence?  Maybe so.  Maybe the individual is becoming more and more fragile and we do need a nanny state to keep the masses from eating each other.  

        "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubt." Bertrand Russell I'm very certain that is true. 10−122

        by thestructureguy on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 03:37:15 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  situational violence (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          LiberalLoner

          is societal violence, like poverty or lack of food shelter or safety.

          It breeds active violence.

          like the recent attack against a georga courthouse.

          http://www.cnn.com/...

          Be the change that you want to see in the world

          by New Minas on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 03:50:45 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I have to weigh in on this (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            FloridaSNMOM, New Minas

            My son has not seen a dentist in years and years... No checkup in over 15 and the most passive person you could meet,  He does not make enough for insurance and Scott will not extend medicaid,    ER if things go wrong...not if.. when....
            I myself have not seen a dentist in 3 years.
            My Champ VA does not cover it.
            Now .....some of us on here have seen the bottom and would have to climb to get to the bottom so even though economic distress causes discontent and anger,,not this kind of anger.   These people were doped up and full of hate from what I have read.  
            We have a dysfunctional government right now... and a lot of rhetoric of hate but being poor does not make this happen and I have a good example.. The Newtown killer... How well off was his Mother?  Very well off.  That killer probably had brand new crowns.  

            Economic and medical disconnect causes bank robberies and shoplifting and drug dealing but not this kind of rampage....but brainwashing does... The kind you get from Alex Jones and Fox and maybe the pulpit coupled with meth and hate speech and you get this.. Not for a tootache.

            Just how much Koch do Right Wingers want in their life? . United Veterans of America

            by Vetwife on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 04:55:40 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  I have medicaid NOW. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        jennyp, Vetwife

        I didn't have health insurance for about 8 years while I was working.. fast food and retail. And that's why my chronic illnesses are now disabling.

        "Madness! Total and complete madness! This never would've happened if the humans hadn't started fighting one another!" Londo Mollari

        by FloridaSNMOM on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 03:41:37 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Ok, now you've got Python stuck in my head. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        New Minas, jennyp

        And I don't believe for a moment these were 'good people' or that they were 'converted to violence'. I know a lot of good people in worse situations than they were... who never became murderers. You're just making excuses for them. Yes, our society needs some major reform. That doesn't mean we're all going to go out shooting people.

        "Madness! Total and complete madness! This never would've happened if the humans hadn't started fighting one another!" Londo Mollari

        by FloridaSNMOM on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 03:44:34 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  what you don't know (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          LiberalLoner

          is what drives people to choose violence.

          whether it is poverty laden violence in the poorest ghettos of the country or the collapse of the employment base and the offshoring of jobs.

          These force, combined with millions of dollars of fascist propaganda feed reactionary forces to extremist violence and paranoia.

          just like in Georgia a few days ago.

          http://www.cnn.com/...

          this is going to keep happening until we put a stop to the forces that are creating these reactionary movements.

          Be the change that you want to see in the world

          by New Minas on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 03:52:29 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  You're right, I don't know what drives people (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            New Minas, jennyp, Vetwife

            to choose violence, because I'm a care giver and pacifist by nature. I couldn't shoot the bunnies that were eating our garden when I was a kid.
            But I've been exposed to the same fascist propaganda. And you know what? I know how to think for myself and called bull shit on it. So maybe it's a weakness in the person who's going out and shooting at people. And that's something we need to address, as a society.

            For me, the only thing that may drive me to violence would be defense of my kids and family. Even when my ex was beating me on a regular basis I never pulled the trigger on the rifle I had aimed at him. Had it been my child... well then that probably would. These people don't have self defense or defense of their child as a reason. There's NO excuse for it.

            "Madness! Total and complete madness! This never would've happened if the humans hadn't started fighting one another!" Londo Mollari

            by FloridaSNMOM on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 03:56:13 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I know it is hard to understand (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              LiberalLoner

              but
              this:

              These people don't have self defense or defense of their child as a reason.
              is not a true statement.

              even those heavily indoctrinated WWII German families who bought into the propaganda of Aryan supremacy used the justification of "preserving society for their children" as their rationale.

              You simply did not fall into the trap that others have and will continue to fall into.

              Be the change that you want to see in the world

              by New Minas on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 04:18:25 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  So far as I understand, this couple (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                LiberalLoner

                didn't have children. I can't think of any recent mass shooting perpetrators who have had children. And in the case of several, they obviously didn't value OTHER people's children either, to the point of killing them.

                "Madness! Total and complete madness! This never would've happened if the humans hadn't started fighting one another!" Londo Mollari

                by FloridaSNMOM on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 04:23:25 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

      •  MCD is not so easy to come by; if you are a (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        FloridaSNMOM, New Minas, jennyp, Vetwife

        male adult for example, you have to show some sort of disability first of all; you have to show financial need second of all.  Just for giggles, it took me 4 years to qualify for SS Disability, 4 years I was not able to work but since I was not judged disable, I was expected to work.  That would disqualify me right there.

        As I remember the requirements for MCD some years ago, I would be allowed to own a car worth less than $3500 and a house worth less than $17000 and since I am not a child, am not preggers and am not a parent, according to the most recent income levels for MCD for myself would be $0 so if I had even $1 in income, I would not be eligible
        http://medicaid.gov/...

        I think MCD is as hard to qualify for in FL as it is in SC so FLSNMom may not have had access to MCD.  Don't be so fast to presume.

        You may argue this couple were not WP or were not Neo Nazis or Neo Confederates but then neither was the Unibomber.  That did not mean he was not an ideologue which this pair most certainly was.

        I am also not persuaded this guy was a good person converted to violence.  I would say he was another marginal person who liked the idea of violence as a shortcut to solving all of his grievances real and imagined

    •  were you convicted of a felony? (0+ / 0-)

      for a victimless crime?

      Be the change that you want to see in the world

      by New Minas on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 03:06:19 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  My health disintegrated to the point I can't work (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        New Minas, jennyp

        because of lack of health insurance because of 'pre-existing conditions' and because in order to qualify for medicaid in this state as an adult with children you have to be earning less than $300/month (and even when I wasn't working my child support disqualified me for it until my son hit 18). So the lack of being able to work because of a felony is a moot point.

        That was at least in part, his own fault for doing something he KNEW was illegal. Mine was being born to a family that is genetically asthmatic and my father chain smoking all during my child hood and damaging my lungs further. So who has more room to bitch, really between us?
        And again, I don't go out shooting people over it. It sucks, but it's the way life is. You suck up and deal and make the most of it.

        "Madness! Total and complete madness! This never would've happened if the humans hadn't started fighting one another!" Londo Mollari

        by FloridaSNMOM on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 03:51:48 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I understand (0+ / 0-)

          you response to situational violence, being placed under those circumstances and not falling into the trap of reactionary thought, of outward violence and racism means that you were able to maintain a stronger moral code.

          I get that.

          There are many who are not taught those things as children, they are taught a different set of values.  When placed under similar circumstances, they much more easily fall into heavy indoctrination by parasites like

          Alex Jones
          or
          Tim Phillips

          "I want to know who you are and I want America to know who you are. . .I personally thing that you and the folks who do what you do are a parasite and you get fat on people's fears.  You are being paid to do it."

          Be the change that you want to see in the world

          by New Minas on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 04:00:05 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  I also went without insurance for several years (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      FloridaSNMOM, New Minas

      and without healthcare during those years.  If not having healthcare was a cause to take a gun and start shooting LEOs, shouldn't there be something like 400,000 people out there shooting at people?

  •  These two clowns are nothing but (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jan4insight, FloridaSNMOM, doroma

    mickey and mallory wannabe's.  Trying to make them into some kind of folk hero's or something?

    "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubt." Bertrand Russell I'm very certain that is true. 10−122

    by thestructureguy on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 03:06:51 PM PDT

    •  what makes people (0+ / 0-)

      break?

      Be the change that you want to see in the world

      by New Minas on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 03:13:31 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  some people are born broken while others (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        FloridaSNMOM, jennyp

        seem to enjoy the process of breaking.  The problem arises when a broken person has no interest in healing but is more obsessed with blaming the larger society for his immediate situation

        •  what if they are manipulated (0+ / 0-)

          to believe that they are being subjugated by a ruthless Marxist/muslim conspiracy.

          If you work hard to destroy the foundations of society and then spend hundreds of millions of dollars over several decades feeding and breeding a reactionary movement with propaganda platforms. . .well, this is what you get.

          Be the change that you want to see in the world

          by New Minas on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 04:20:11 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  what if they are manipulated to believe that (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            IamGumby, FloridaSNMOM

            Obama is from Mars and is a forward mole for an invasion from Mars? (Orson Welles was right!!!!!) How about the belief that all members of Congress have been kidnapped and replaced with robots?

            The gullible have always been among us and will always be among us.  The fact that they are gullible does not exonerate them from blame for their actions

            •  so, since the population of people (0+ / 0-)

              represented by these extremist movements are growing significantly in the last 10 years, would that mean that there is some kind of sudden genetic imbalance that has taken over the u.s. population? why is this happening in varying degree in Europe as well?

              OMG it is the chemtrails!!!

              or, maybe it is really about long-term situational violence and the growing wealth inequality. the offshoring of jobs and the collapse of the middle class that is driving America to extremism.

              ???

              This is how fascists operate, through extremist propaganda.

              have you forgotten?

              Be the change that you want to see in the world

              by New Minas on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 07:29:14 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  if you are ready to eschew sarcasm (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                FloridaSNMOM, New Minas

                (and please trust me, I am accomplished in the medium but find it very much out of place here at Kos and out of place for the purposes of Kos as I understand them)
                To reiterate the gullible have always been among us and to wring our hands and grasp our pearls that they are about to take over is a bit silly.

                The only difference is that with media today, they are more noticeable, not more numerous.  To try to defend them as victims is folly as they choose to be victims.  To define them as broken is futile because they choose to be broken.  Imagine if there had been an internet on April 28, 1843.

                •  that is a good point (0+ / 0-)

                  but to say they "chose" to be broken is like telling an impoverished mother of 3 in Haiti that she "chose" to have cholera kill 2 of her children after the earthquake.

                  There are specific structural reasons that these things are happening.  It is a matter of social policy set by administrators.

                  Just like the current conditions in Haiti were a matter of U.S. foreign policy in the 1980s and 1990s.

                  I use sarcasm as a tool and it is a horrible blunt one.  I am sorry.

                  Be the change that you want to see in the world

                  by New Minas on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 06:16:55 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  your metaphor does not work since (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    FloridaSNMOM

                    cholera is a disease which hits everyone, high and low in a society which has yet to develop public health concepts or else where a disaster has destroyed or crippled such services. Since cholera is usually transmitted through water and food, esp. seafood, you will find many ancient cultures developed dietary rules around avoiding contamination.  Even the long list of dietary restrictions in the OT is a result of ancient observation of which food is safe and which is not.    

                    To compare people who decide to execute 2 cops due to their misguided ideology to people who die after, say a tsunami, due to contaminated water and food, does not work as a metaphor  

                    •  In a (0+ / 0-)

                      functional, vibrant modern society, with adequate social services, freedom from the fear of poverty, freedom from the fear of violence and a higher structure that allows for education, self expression and social cohesion. . .

                      In this society the threat of extremist rhetoric is basically non-existent.  However, in a society with a concerted attack on the middle class, a devolution of social programs and education systems

                      Chris Hedges said it best starting around time 6:00

                      "The fear that I have is that the legitimate rage, which is being expressed by our dispossessed, is being captured by proto-fascist movements.  Tea Party movements, Oathkeeper movments, militias. . .and the longer that liberals continue to speak in the bloodless, sterile language of policy and issues, the less credibility that they will have."

                      Chris Hedges, 2010

                      Be the change that you want to see in the world

                      by New Minas on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 07:44:15 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site