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  One day after radical jihadists overran the Iraqi city of Mosul, with a population of 1.8 million, White House spokesman Josh Earnest said Tuesday that President Barack Obama and former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton can be proud of their success in “ending the war in Iraq.”

 Huh?

  Today the same islamic fundamentalists seized Saddam's hometown of Tikrit. I could not find any comment about it from the Obama Administration.

  We are looking at the possible collapse of the entire Iraqi Army to a group so radical that even al-Qaeda disowned them, and no one, not even Republicans, want to talk about it.

 If it was just Mosul and Tikrit, that would be one thing. However, Mosul is just the latest city to fall to al-Qaeda.
 In Mosul, along with the cities of Samarra and Ramadi, the militants have stormed police stations, government offices and even a university.
... Security officials have framed the attacks as an attempt by militants to distract the army from its ongoing battle in the western province of Anbar, where militants have managed to hold territory, including the city of Falluja and parts of neighboring Ramadi, for six months. With the fighting on Tuesday, the government faced the possibility of losing another major Iraqi city to extremists whose stated goals include establishing an Islamic state.
 Despite every effort by the Iraqi army, including dropping barrel bombs in middle of residential areas, they were unable to retake Fallujah.
  The university of Ramadi was taken by militants just Saturday.
 A member of the security and defense committee in parliament said the insurgency could not be quelled by force alone because the root cause was political.
 To give you an idea of what has become of Iraq, consider the NY Times headline from last year: Iraq: Where Terrorists Go to School.
 The Fall of Mosul has compounded the problem. The ISIL has now become the most well-funded terrorist organization in the world.
     The Islamic State of Iraq and al-Shams (Isis) has become the richest terror group ever after looting 500 billion Iraqi dinars - the equivalent of $429m (£256m) - from Mosul's central bank, according to the regional governor.
  Nineveh governor Atheel al-Nujaifi confirmed Kurdish televison reports that Isis militants had stolen millions from numerous banks across Mosul. A large quantity of gold bullion is also believed to have been stolen.
 Following the siege of the country's second city, the bounty collected by the group has left it richer than al-Qaeda itself and as wealthy as small nations such as Tonga, Kiribati, the Marshall Islands and the Falkland Islands.
 The financial assets that Isis now possess are likely to worsen the Iraqi governement's struggle to defeat the insurgency, which is aimed at creating an Islamic state across the Syrian-Iraqi border.
 Besides the enormous bundle of cash, ISIL also seized an enormous cache of U.S-made weapons, such as Blackhawk helicoptors and armored humvees. They can now match the Iraqi army in a straight-up battle.
 ISIS later said its forces were continuing to advance south and east from Mosul, overrunning several smaller towns that would enable its fighters to link up with their counterparts across the border in Syria. There, the organization controls what amounts to an unofficial state across swaths of the north and east from which government forces have been ejected.
   [Iraq’s speaker of parliament, Osama al-Nujaifi] “Everything is fallen. It’s a crisis,” he added, appealing for international and government help to retake the city. “Having these terrorist groups control a city in the heart of Iraq threatens not only Iraq but the entire region.”
 No one wants to talk about Iraq because no one wants to do anything about it. There is absolutely no political will for going back into Iraq, yet the idea of ISIL conquering Iraq is too horrific to imagine.
   Just to give you an idea, consider that this group likes to publicly crucify people. I would post pictures, but they are pretty horrifying. Click on the link if you want to see them.

  Now imagine this group taking over a major nation in the most important oil-producing region in the world. Consider that this group doesn't respect national borders, so Kuwait, Iran, and Saudi Arabia would be in immediate danger. Saddam Hussein doesn't sound so bad in comparison, does he?
   If nothing is done, if we continue to ignore the situation, this might be exactly what we are looking at.
  I don't know what the solution is, but I do know that the crazy relative in the attic isn't going to get better if we just ignore him.

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Comment Preferences

  •  al-Quagmire in the Levant returns /nt (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    gjohnsit, pvasileff, schumann, YucatanMan

    Warning - some snark may be above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 "If we appear to seek the unattainable, then let it be known that we do so to avoid the unimaginable." (@eState4Column5)

    by annieli on Wed Jun 11, 2014 at 10:28:31 AM PDT

    •  Will DKos keep ignoring the situation? (10+ / 0-)

      We don't have are talking points from the White House, so what is the correct thing to say? Just ignore it until the White House spin has been created?

      "The oppressors most powerful weapon is the mind of the oppressed." - Stephen Biko

      by gjohnsit on Wed Jun 11, 2014 at 10:35:17 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Beats going to war (directly or by proxy) again (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Jim P, schumann, chuckvw

        . . . which is, I imagine, the only other option a Very Serious Person would advocate.

        Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

        by corvo on Wed Jun 11, 2014 at 10:38:01 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You do realize (5+ / 0-)

          that if Iraq falls, besides the horrific fate that will befall the Iraqi people:

          1) there will be an enormous political backlash here
          2) the entire middle east will be destabilized
          3) the war will spread
          4) oil prices will double or triple, which will crush the economy

            And that's just off the top of my head.

          "The oppressors most powerful weapon is the mind of the oppressed." - Stephen Biko

          by gjohnsit on Wed Jun 11, 2014 at 10:45:12 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  not to mention (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            gjohnsit, Jim P, Don midwest, YucatanMan

            Harboring Al_Qaeda like terrorists bent on a re-do of 9/11

          •  Hey, you want a war, (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            maryabein

            you fight it yourself.

            Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

            by corvo on Wed Jun 11, 2014 at 11:38:42 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I was at every anti-war protest (8+ / 0-)

              I could get to in 2002 and 2003. I kept protesting after the invasion.
                I got many of my friends to come to the protests. I'm as anti-war as they come.

               But that doesn't mean we should just ignore the situation. It doesn't mean that at all.

              "The oppressors most powerful weapon is the mind of the oppressed." - Stephen Biko

              by gjohnsit on Wed Jun 11, 2014 at 11:55:33 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Then tell us what you mean. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                schumann

                Don't be shy.  And for god's sake don't be coy.

                Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

                by corvo on Wed Jun 11, 2014 at 12:09:01 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I'm honestly not sure (6+ / 0-)

                  what to do about the situation. I don't pretend to have those answers.
                     But I also think that this is not a situation that you can ignore and not react to.

                    So something must be done. Whether it is picking sides, finding new allies, whatever.
                    But you can't figure out what to do if you don't talk about it.

                   This is where DKos is supposed to be valuable: offering and weighing ideas.
                    In this sort of situation, no idea should be considered beyond the Pale.

                    The problem is that DKos is no longer functioning that way. If it doesn't fit into a recognized context then people don't want to talk about it.
                    In that case DKos is no better than Washington, which is a place that is broken.

                  "The oppressors most powerful weapon is the mind of the oppressed." - Stephen Biko

                  by gjohnsit on Wed Jun 11, 2014 at 12:41:15 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  It's precisely because Washington is broken (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    schumann, chuckvw, Jim P

                    that we're more or less powerless to do anything but pick up a punkah and wave it . . . for warmongering Hillary Clinton, of all people.

                    And it's precisely the manner in which Washington is broken that equates any call of "we must do something" with "Yay! Another multibillion-dollar series of destruction and reconstruction contracts! And yeah, some collateral damage, but today's orphans are tomorrow's enemies too!"

                    Don't give them quarter.  Don't give them anything; they'll just spin it into a war that will create more mayhem and carnage.

                    Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

                    by corvo on Wed Jun 11, 2014 at 12:53:20 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I grant you (4+ / 0-)

                      that America has gotten accustom of to being a mechanic with only one tool - a sledgehammer in the form of a B-2 bomber.
                        So it views everything as a nail that needs to be hammered down.

                       But this is a real crisis, not like the fake crisis of 2003. There needs to be some sort of plan, even a plan that doesn't involve bombers and Marines.

                      "The oppressors most powerful weapon is the mind of the oppressed." - Stephen Biko

                      by gjohnsit on Wed Jun 11, 2014 at 01:05:28 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Then for god's sake let's hear it. (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        schumann, chuckvw

                        Until then we do NOTHING.

                        Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

                        by corvo on Wed Jun 11, 2014 at 01:19:46 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                •  #1: Don't attack Assad (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  gjohnsit, Lepanto

                  He's the closest thing we have to an ally in confronting ISIS.

                  Pay no attention to the upward redistribution of wealth!

                  by ActivistGuy on Wed Jun 11, 2014 at 05:53:44 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

          •  In other words, PNAC (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            WattleBreakfast

            If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about answers. - Thomas Pynchon

            by chuckvw on Wed Jun 11, 2014 at 03:36:25 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  should wait a few days since (0+ / 0-)

        the Cantor defeat seems to have cause some bizarre I/P backlash

        Warning - some snark may be above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 "If we appear to seek the unattainable, then let it be known that we do so to avoid the unimaginable." (@eState4Column5)

        by annieli on Wed Jun 11, 2014 at 10:39:15 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  What productive action can we take? (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        maryabein, corvo, Jim P, Superpole, schumann

        What can anyone in the world do? Humpty is broken and the king has left the building. What international force or body has the combination of insanity and arrogance it would take believe that they can retake and pacify Iraq? How would the world respond if Iran tried it?  Maybe ignoring the uncle is better than treating him with leeches and electroshock.

        •  Then we better be prepared for the consequences (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Sandino, Jim P, 3goldens, WattleBreakfast

          If Iraq falls then oil prices will double or triple within weeks. The stock market will crash and the economy will dump into recession immediately.

            And that's not even accounting for all the countries around Iraq destabilizing.

            And in a related note, this is a perfect time to piss off Russia so they can cut off their gas exports.

          "The oppressors most powerful weapon is the mind of the oppressed." - Stephen Biko

          by gjohnsit on Wed Jun 11, 2014 at 10:57:15 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Indeed (8+ / 0-)

            but can this be prevented? It sounds like any response needs to happen in days or weeks.   I'm all for you blogging the living fuck out of this thing, but it seems like the end is basically written.

            •  Re: (7+ / 0-)
               I'm all for you blogging the living fuck out of this thing, but it seems like the end is basically written.
              Personally I would like to see DKos give a f*ck. I'm not sure how to do that.
                It seems like we have no problem spending endless amounts of time on pie wars and meta wars, but when it comes to an issue that the White House hasn't spun yet, well, that's not important.

                Reality-based community my ass.

              "The oppressors most powerful weapon is the mind of the oppressed." - Stephen Biko

              by gjohnsit on Wed Jun 11, 2014 at 11:10:27 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  that is (4+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                gjohnsit, corvo, schumann, ActivistGuy

                the end result of a long series of meta struggles, in which the party-line faction has removed the reality based indie faction one person at a time. Now the site is where it is. Just take stock of it and move on. Things change.

              •  A few of us gave a fuck (5+ / 0-)

                when we opposed interference in places like Libya and Syria, actions that greased the skids for precisely the bloody disintegration we are seeing now. (We were pretty much branded dupes and ignoramuses, as I recall...)

                ISIS effloresced in the petri dish of the Syrian clusterfuck. When the outside powers decided to be arsonists instead of firefighters, the die was cast. Cynical, incompetent, just plain stupid policy from all sides...

                What do we do now? I'm fucked if I know. That's not the same thing as not giving a fuck.

                If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about answers. - Thomas Pynchon

                by chuckvw on Wed Jun 11, 2014 at 03:32:01 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

          •  Iraq is not going to "fall", (3+ / 0-)

            ISIS will not take the Kurdish North or the Shia South, the most they can hope for is some foothold in the outskirts of Baghdad.

            After a long stalemated war, Iraq breaks up into three entities. A oil rich Shia south, an oil rich Kurdish north, a central Syria portion, Sunni Crescent constantly trying to seize and hold the oil around Kirkuk, but with no means of development or export.

            That's the ISIS best case.

            In reality, ISIS are guerilla's, not Governors, and ISIS occupation of an area, very quickly builds a local violent backlash against their rule and their presence.

            •  There is no way they just stop at (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Sandino, Jim P, 3goldens, YucatanMan

              the suburbs of Baghdad. If they make it that far then Baghdad will fall.
                And if Baghdad falls then I don't know what will happen in the south.

               Kurdish north will probably stand alone, but that's bad news for Turkey and their PKK problem.

                And who know how that will effect Iran and Syria?

              "The oppressors most powerful weapon is the mind of the oppressed." - Stephen Biko

              by gjohnsit on Wed Jun 11, 2014 at 11:34:52 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  "Saddam City", now Sadr City (3+ / 0-)

                Will not fall to ISIS, nor will most of Baghdad.

                Under the US Occupation, Baghdad was ethnically cleansed and ghetto-ized, and those ghetto's were fortified and made no go areas for other ethnic groups. The Sunni wound up in control of less than 20% of these enclaves.

                The key to the recent ISIS "victories" in Iraq, has not been the ISIS actions. While the ISIS mobile strike forces took out the Iraqi Army roadblocks and fortified outposts on the outskirts of Sunni majority cities, the actual cities for the most part were taken by quickly formed and mobilized Sunni "Self Defence" militia's.

                Basically the same guys who were The Insurgency back in the early 2000's, then the guys the US paid during the Surge to go after Al-Quida in Iraq, in exchange for defacto self Government.

                In the next few weeks, if the US continues to not significantly support the Iraqi Government, then Iran will arrange to send in the Guard to stabilize the situation.

            •  A stalemated war can go on for decades. (7+ / 0-)

              And you underestimate the will and purposes of jihadists. As things stalemate in Iraq, then they'll just push more in Syria, Libya, Mali, Niger, Yemen, Egypt, etc. Guerillas shift resources and efforts according to opportunity. And our policies and interference have made MENA rich with opportunities.


              A government is a body of people usually notably ungoverned. -- Firefly

              by Jim P on Wed Jun 11, 2014 at 12:35:22 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  And you don't understand how to defeat them, (0+ / 0-)

                Let them win locally. Allah and the Quran say nothing about fixing the potholes or administering International Development Contracts.

                War tends to kill off moderates first, leaving extremists.

                Dealing with potholes, property lines, zoning commissions, City Hall meetings and all the petty compromise of administering even a low level society seems to breed moderation.

                •  ??? You worry about all that after the war is over (0+ / 0-)

                  You're not fixing potholes while being shelled. And you really think jihadists have moderates? They are going all out to claim the Levant, and nothing is going to deter them unless they die or have a vision on the way to Damascus.


                  A government is a body of people usually notably ungoverned. -- Firefly

                  by Jim P on Thu Jun 12, 2014 at 12:00:30 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  You let them "win" locally, (0+ / 0-)

                    Stalemate them at the margins, and let their lust for the 7th century and an inability to fix potholes, destroy their popularity,

                    Or, they moderate over time like Hamas and Hizbuallah, from the daily drudgery of supporting a society and economy.

                    It takes time.

                    War and conflict quickly breed extremists, because they are the ones that survive, they are the ones who bring victory through death, they are the ones who's doctrine explains the suffering,

                    While the moderates get murdered by the OpFor every time they pop their heads up for so called "negotiations".

            •  Do you prefer (0+ / 0-)

              "splinter into dysfunctional pieces"?

              I mean, OK, the Kurdish north and the Shia south stand, separately, but they stand. Is that a functional situation?

              It's bound to become quite unmanageable, and in any case, "Iraq" no longer would exist as an entity, right?  "Iraq falls" is an accurate statement. It literally falls apart as your own comment describes.

              I just don't understand the objection to that term.

              "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

              by YucatanMan on Wed Jun 11, 2014 at 10:37:00 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Iraq has been broken (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                YucatanMan

                Since the CIA/MI6 Nasserite Coup killed off the first real Nationalist Government and the Socialist Left. Since then it has been elected Dictators, some more honestly elected than others, except for a couple years of Garner and Bremer.

                Poppy Bush broke Iraq as a nation with his sanctions and call for revolt, and until Dubya Dubya Me Too, it was three defacto nations, an Associated Kurdistan, Sunni Iraq, and Occupied Shia Iraq.

                During Dubya Dubya Me Too, and during the occupation, the US deliberately broke every vestige the Iraqi's has in the way of a Government and Civil Society, except for the oil ministry . During the Reconstruction, the US built nothing, except massive corporate profits.

                Iraq has long ago ceased to be a country, and until the locals are allowed to solve their problems themselves, has no chance of ever being a country.

          •  The object of the game is destabilization and it's (13+ / 0-)

            working. The neo-Con/Liberal goal, stated in plain English in that "Project for a New American Century" document was to conquer and/or destabilize. Conquering Iraq was assumed as a given, but that failed. So, Plan B is in effect.

            Remember that Russia and China are our targets: the rest of Africa/Eurasia are about preparing the battleground to our advantage. (At the time of PNAC's writing, China had not yet been making deals and alliances in sub-Saharan Africa. That's why we've created AFRICOM and now have helpful advisors with weapons in, iirc, all but 3 (5?) sub-Saharan nations.)

            The entire purpose of messing with MENA (Middle East North Africa) was/is to deprive Russia (and somewhat, China) of potential allies/bases in the region. Nations in civil war won't make strong allies.

            That's not really working either, though, as we see the Saudis & Gulf States are eager to accommodate both Russia and China as the US is being seen more and more as a lunatic, and incompetent, agent.

            The reason mass concentrations of jihadists are not being bombed is either because: a) we're okay with them, or b) they don't hold enough weddings/funerals to warrant strikes.

             


            A government is a body of people usually notably ungoverned. -- Firefly

            by Jim P on Wed Jun 11, 2014 at 12:30:20 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  The only halfway palatable solution at this point (9+ / 0-)

          is containment . . . although we are diametrically opposed to that.  It would mean, at the very least, ceasing to destabilize countries like Iran and Syria.  Can't do that!  

          Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

          by corvo on Wed Jun 11, 2014 at 11:45:13 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  The planners and deciders clearly want (11+ / 0-)

            destabilization to a point.  That's their M.O.  They clearly wanted to start a sectarian war in the Middle East as well, that can be seen in Sy Hersh's reporting, "The Redirection".  They've used Al Qaeda and other Islamist groups to fight their proxy wars in Libya and Syria and continue to do so.  
            So this may be a problem for the Iraqi's and the Middle East, as well as with those of us against such violence, but not necessarily a problem for the deciders.  They appeared to have wanted this, at least to an extent.
            I'm not sure at what point it's out of their control.  Maybe it already is. This could be a 30 year war.

            "Fragmented and confused, we have no plan to combat any of this, but are looking to be saved by the very architects of our ruination."

            by BigAlinWashSt on Wed Jun 11, 2014 at 12:19:46 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  I guess when Obama boasted that the USA was (14+ / 0-)

    leaving behind (after all that wonderful bombing) a "stable and secure Country" that the Iraqi people weren't listening.

    Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya are just a few of the many examples of what the USA has to offer the world. Chaos and rubble.

    without the ants the rainforest dies

    by aliasalias on Wed Jun 11, 2014 at 10:45:48 AM PDT

    •  Well, (10+ / 0-)

      at least the terrorists weren't listening.  

      The thought of the US going back into this black hole is terrifying and something I really cannot support.  But we should own up to the fact that we have created this mess.  I am not sure more war is the solution.  God, I hate war!

      "I don't want to run the empire, I want to bring it down!" ~ Dr. Cornel West "...isn't the problem here that the government takes on, arbitrarily and without justification, an adversarial attitude towards its citizenry?" ~ SouthernLiberalinMD

      by gulfgal98 on Wed Jun 11, 2014 at 11:20:38 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I imagine most didn't have electricity thanks to (6+ / 0-)

        us and if anything Obama's bombast was for certain Allies and the political world back home, the Iraqi people certainly don't need to catch a media event to know the truth about what the USA was leaving behind.
        I also feel more Iraqis than Americans are aware of Obama's efforts to keep the troops in Iraq and that it was GW Bush's administration's SOFA that stopped it.
         The death and destruction the US  rained down on those people will never be forgotten and they will live with constant reminders of it by not just the chaos left behind but the results of depleted uranium we leave behind for generations to come.

        I can only imagine if someone did have electricity, a tv, and the time to watch it, the television might not survive a hail of shoes.

        without the ants the rainforest dies

        by aliasalias on Wed Jun 11, 2014 at 02:12:48 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  But, I thought (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    gjohnsit, 3goldens

    al-Qaeda was on the run?  Oh well, not our problem anymore. Ignore those that talk about a destabilized Middle East or the horror that will beset the people of Iraq, the they're just Wingers itching for another war.

    Good thing we're almost done with Afghanistan too. At least we know there won't be any problems now that we've set the exit date. The world will finally love us again.

    You best believe it does

    by HangsLeft on Wed Jun 11, 2014 at 10:55:35 AM PDT

  •  Given results, it's obvious US military planning (14+ / 0-)

    is done by al-qaeda moles. There's no place on earth where we've projected our awesome military power which hasn't seen entrenchment and spread of jihadist elements. All we've managed to do is destabilize nations and help poverty, starvation, sectarian violence, and drug-profits grow.

    Remembering news stories from last year about the Syrian jihadis, their goal is to form a state consisting of Syria, Iraq, Israel, Lebanon, and Jordan. "The Levant."

    Odd, isn't it, that Israel and the US keep going back to what a potential trouble Iran is if they ever get around to developing that nuke capability they are going to have any day now for 30 years...

    ...yet has anybody heard of an Israeli or US or NATO airstrike against Syrian/Iraqi jihadist camps? Just once, even?  

    I mean, these guys band together in specific locations. What? Our satellites can't locate them? Our carriers in the Mediterranean and the Persian Gulf don't have planes with enough fuel to reach them? They are too far from Israel?

    It's a strange war on terror where avowed terrorists get a free ride.

    Oh, all those silly questions I just asked! When the answer to 'why nothing done' is obvious: Putin!!


    A government is a body of people usually notably ungoverned. -- Firefly

    by Jim P on Wed Jun 11, 2014 at 11:04:57 AM PDT

  •  I guess we will start to sell arms to both sides (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    gjohnsit, corvo, chuckvw

    now until we get all that bullion, fuck the dinars, the military industrial complex wants the good stuff.  In the old days, Iraq and Iran slugged it out and then quit, that is what is going to happen there and the ones who will suffer as always, are the innocent.   We want no more to do with this and we better stay the hell out of it until they get tired.

  •  going back in an option? (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    gjohnsit, schumann, 3goldens, chuckvw

    I don't think a returned US military would improve things.

    But I rec'd your diary because it's important.

    •  It reminds me (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      3goldens, Jim P, YucatanMan

      of Rome's border troubles with ther Germanic tribes and Parthian.
        There was no real solution for Rome, but that doesn't mean they could ignore the situation once they committed to an empire.

      "The oppressors most powerful weapon is the mind of the oppressed." - Stephen Biko

      by gjohnsit on Wed Jun 11, 2014 at 11:39:37 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  This is the worse thing (6+ / 0-)

        it is not the specifics of the conflict that should get people wooried as much as it is the generalities: for quite a while now, the abiliuty of modern states to actually govern and impose order seems to be retreating. Somalia was only the beginning - since then state after state has collapsed into factional warring: without any one faction being able to win decisicely and found or reinstate a new state that is able to guarantee a new order for its people.

        in the 1970s with the west-east proxy guerilla wars, the functional state still was a viable thing to fight over: one side of the other won, and then molded the state to their wishes, but it was a state, guaranteeing a defined order.

        now, Egypt has substantially lost actual control over parts of the Sinai. Would that have been thinkable in Nasser´s or Sadat´s time? It is not good for Egypt, not good for Israel, not good for anyone else: in the voids growing there, horrors are let loose that would put Attila to shame.

        Governance has imploded in many regions and ever more areas seem to share that fate.

        that is what is more comparable to Rome. It is terrifying. Why is it so? Where does this apparent worldwide decrease in the ability of societies to keep up structured governance come from?  

  •  no sniveling (7+ / 0-)

    the wicked authoritarian who was mean to some of his people is gone and the Iraqi People are now Free to determine their own destinies.  This is the Glorious Result of a Glorious BiPartisan effort led by the Great Heroes Bush and Obama and the Other Great Heroes who authorized this Great and Glorious Expedition to "Free" Iraq.

    Oh, and our Great and Glorious Heroes, too.

    Sure am glad we are not making the same Great and Glorious mistakes in Afghanistan, too.

    don't always believe what you think

    by claude on Wed Jun 11, 2014 at 02:12:13 PM PDT

  •  I found an interesting take on (4+ / 0-)

    this situation at Col. Pat Lang's website, Sic Semper Tyrannus. Here's the link. Lang finds it concerning.

    Another article I found was at The New Yorker by Dexter Filkins.  And here's the link for that one.

    Thanks, Garrett, for the heads-up regarding this situation in Iraq. The silence of the Obama administration on this is concerning. If the Middle East really blows up in the next year or so, Democrats can kiss the 2016 election good-bye. People will go back to the Republicans, who never saw a war they didn't love. We sure have a bunch of screw-ups when it comes to foreign policy, and it's all due to the willingness of our politicians to meddle where they have no business doing so and in their allegiance to the MIC. We need an influx of people who are into peace-making rather than war-making. Yeah, I know---dream on.

    "A voice is heard in Ramah, weeping and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children and refusing to be comforted, because they are no more." - from the prophet Jeremiah

    by 3goldens on Wed Jun 11, 2014 at 03:21:46 PM PDT

    •  The Middle East has been blowing up... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      3goldens, BigAlinWashSt, gjohnsit

      perhaps irretrievably this time... for the past three years. Policy stupid enough to rival that of the Europeans in 1914, some of it engineered by our putative monarch in waiting... Just really, really stupid, really bloody stupid...

      If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about answers. - Thomas Pynchon

      by chuckvw on Wed Jun 11, 2014 at 03:46:56 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  gj, I think this is an important story, (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    chuckvw, 3goldens, Jim P, gjohnsit

    but didn't everybody predict this when we got into the war?  Except we added in the prophecy of an embassy rooftop evacuation.  Hell, even Republicans predicted this if we didn't fight to the last man in Iraq, the way Dick Cheney fought to the last man in Vietnam.

    •  Embassy rooftop evacuation here we come (0+ / 0-)

      The difference is that in 1975 the Vietnamese forces waited outside of Saigon for three days so we could get out.

       These guys might just rush in because there are infidel heads to be sawed off.

      "The oppressors most powerful weapon is the mind of the oppressed." - Stephen Biko

      by gjohnsit on Wed Jun 11, 2014 at 06:46:45 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The second biggest reason (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    gjohnsit, BigAlinWashSt, Lepanto

    I totally opposed US plans to attack Assad and degrade his forces is that the Syrian Army is the only force in the region capable of inflicting defeats on ISIS.  And the crazy jihadists of ISIS are far scarier than anything Assad could ever be.  Is Assad a harsh and brutally repressive dictator?  Yes, of course.  But we know that he has no territorial ambitions outside the borders of Syria, and part of the brutality is occasioned by the knowledge that his nation includes the likes of ISIS.  

    We have no idea at all what the territorial aspirations of ISIS are.  The "Levant"?  What's that?  What conflicts, destabilizations, brutal takeovers does that encompass?  Now ISIS has gained control of Iraq's northerly oil centers, as well as Syria's small deposits.  They are modernizing their forces by captured equipment provided to Iraq by the US.  Already ISIS forces in up-armored Humvees are showing up on the Syrian side of the border, within a day of the fall of Mosul.  Mention is made publicly only of light arms captured in the panic, but the odds are great that US anti-tank and even anti-aircraft weapons such as MANPADS are being taken as well, not to mention more standard unit field weaponry.  They are reinforcing their units by liberating thousands of imprisoned insurgents.  And we wanted to send bombers to aid their efforts in Syria?

    Pay no attention to the upward redistribution of wealth!

    by ActivistGuy on Wed Jun 11, 2014 at 05:49:20 PM PDT

  •  We broke Iraq; We own it-Wish Powell hadn't (0+ / 0-)

    helped them break it. We have our own crazy relative living in Dallas. He's "comfortable" with our invasion of Iraq, lives in a world of make-believe where wealthy friends and relatives bailed him out before he was appointed by the Supreme Court. We, the taxpayers bailed him out after he broke the whole country. He apparently thinks he was saved by Jesus, too, so what does it matter what he and the rest of them do?

  •  Winning (0+ / 0-)

    It's so clear to me now, that the only way to win endless war is to have endless war, and if that fails, have endless war, and if that fails, have endless war, and if that fails, have endless war….

    Sure, some may call me naive, sarcastic or even cynical.

    That's ok.  

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