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U.S. Senator John McCain (R-AZ) smiles as he talks to reporters after a Republican Senate caucus meeting at the U.S. Capitol in Washington October 16, 2013. REUTERS/Jonathan Ernst
Here's John McCain Wednesday night, saying the U.S. should do "what a number of other military leaders have recommended" on Iraq, which he claims is...
...that we go in, we use airpower, we get some boots on the ground, a few that can identify targets.
And who does he think should lead us in our return to war? You guessed it:
"It's an immediate emergency. I would call in the people that won in Iraq and the leader of the of course is General David Petraeus," said Senator McCain.
Well, sorry, John. He thinks you're wrong:
The retired general warned Wednesday that the political conditions now in Iraq mean that military intervention would falter because both sides would perceive the United States as favoring one religious faction against another rather than as squashing terrorism alone.

“This cannot be the United States being the air force for Shia militias, or a Shia on Sunni Arab fight,” he said at a London conference.

I don't know whose unnamed "military leaders" are that McCain claims want to go back to war in Iraq, but David Petraeus isn't one of them.

8:54 AM PT: Hey, but if this is true, then maybe all hope is not lost for John's cause:

AP reporting: Obama is expected to announce Thursday that he is deploying about 100 Green Berets to Iraq to help train & advise Iraqi forces
@ZekeJMiller
I'm sure it won't satisfy McCain, but it certainly sounds like it would be a step in his direction.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Bet those old "General Betrayus" ads are looking (12+ / 0-)

    pretty good to McCain right now.

  •  I'm confused, who won Iraq except evil big biz? (12+ / 0-)

    I voted Tuesday, May 6, 2014 because it is my right, my responsibility and because my parents moved from Alabama to Ohio to vote. Unfortunately, the republicons want to turn Ohio into Alabama.

    by a2nite on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 08:48:39 AM PDT

    •  Since invading Iraq... (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cocinero, JeffW, frostbite, 1Nic Ven

      ... was a monumental fuckup based on lies for oil, then that war crime compounded by the additional war crimes of torture, the US lost that war before the first shots were fired.

      "We'll be greeted as liberators" - my big fat arse...!

      There is NO winning a war that is a war crime from the first time the invasion was even thought of, let alone enacted.

      I'm sick of attempts to steer this nation from principles evolved in The Age of Reason to hallucinations derived from illiterate herdsmen. ~ Crashing Vor

      by NonnyO on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 09:16:29 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Wars are for money (0+ / 0-)

        This "war for oil" in Iraq was really about maintaining artificially high oil prices. Look at the price of oil over the past 15 years. The price of oil had dropped from $150 to a measly $57 per barrel before 9-11. That was partly because every time OPEC attempted [illegal] price manipulation by agreeing to coordinate reduced production, Saddam Hussein would thumb his nose at them and crank up Iraq's oil production.

        Hence the need for the Saudi's to use GW Bush as their puppet to initiate a war and remove the thorn in their side, Saddam Hussein. Thanks to the sacrifice of America's military and $1.7 trillion in American tax dollars, the low price of oil we saw before 9-11 is now back up where OPEC and international oil interests want it to be.

        The "war for oil" wasn't a way for Americans to steal Iraq's oil. It was a political ploy to get American taxpayers to maintain the artificial increase in oil prices.

        Now the war profiteers will have a chance to continue bleeding American taxpayers by funneling US money to those who benefit from selling arms and munitions to war torn areas with ongoing tribal/religious conflicts.

        Obama wants to "train & advise Iraqi forces?" What the heck does he think our $1.7 trillion already paid for?

        •  We've heard this refrain before: (0+ / 0-)
          "train & advise Iraqi forces?"
          EXCEPT..., for my generation it was:
          "train & advise Vietnam forces"
          The names of the countries (Korea, Vietnam, most South American countries, Iran, Iraq, various 'stan' countries, Croatia, wherever), even the justifications (though usually it's to 'train and advise' someone if not carry on their wars for them), are interchangeable.  It all comes down to the CIA and/or "Special Forces" [whatever that means, some kind of mercenary actions and/or corporate mercenaries are involved], and/or US military actions of one sort or another ... cost the US taxpayer monies We The People did not "approve" being spent on wasting lives and wasting more money.

          The stupidity and greed in accepting lobbyists' money to our "elected leaders" and Media Morons who love to write about war and "winning" [something, fill in the blank, losing lives and money has never sounded like "winning" to me] literally knows no bounds, but it's clear their avocation is being Cheerleaders for War.

          The number of US citizens who actually buy into this false jingoistic crap like our soldiers "fighting for our freedoms" (which we were not in danger of losing until our Cretinous Congress Critters took our rights away after 9/11 and have STILL not repealed that legislation) still has the power to amaze and appall me, even after all these years.  I blame our educational system which does not teach critical thinking skills; they're too interested in making jocks out of their students instead of scholars who actually can think for themselves.

          I'm sick of attempts to steer this nation from principles evolved in The Age of Reason to hallucinations derived from illiterate herdsmen. ~ Crashing Vor

          by NonnyO on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 05:05:19 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  As Rick Perry might say on McCain's behalf: (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JeffW, Hillbilly Dem, Matt Z, Yonit, frostbite

    "Oops!"

    -4.75, -5.33 Cheney 10/05/04: "I have not suggested there is a connection between Iraq and 9/11."

    by sunbro on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 08:48:43 AM PDT

    •  They'll always have Petraeus... (7+ / 0-)

      "Reagan's dead, and he was a lousy president" -- Keith Olbermann 4/22/09

      by kovie on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 08:50:59 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The surge and payola (3+ / 0-)

        As I recall, the major reason that the surge accomplished anything had to do with paying off the entire Sunni population to go along with the American plans. Once the payment stopped the Sunni lost their only reason to support the USA.

        To cover over for the horrible decision made to go to war on Iraq the guilty parties now blame Maliki for all problems. Yet, the Maliki government was largely a construction that began with the Brenner administration of Iraq.

        The media propaganda continues to claim that the USA "liberated" Iraq. No one says that we invaded and "occupied" Iraq. Is ISIS now liberating Iraq? How many more liberations can the good people of Iraq survive?

        War is costly. Peace is priceless!

        by frostbite on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 10:12:18 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  based on CNN story (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JeffW, waiono, Onomastic

    something like McCain plan is what Pentagon is proposing to the President:

    Up to 100 U.S. special forces -- probably Green Berets, Army Rangers and Navy SEALs -- would go to Iraq to advise its military and collect intelligence under a Pentagon plan offered to President Barack Obama, according to several U.S. officials.

    U.S. officials familiar with the plan, who spoke to CNN on condition of not being identified, said the deployment would begin with several small military teams and grow larger over time.

    Teams would be placed around Iraq in the headquarters of Iraqi military brigades and tasked with gathering intelligence on ISIS forces, such as their location, numbers and weaponry, the officials said.

    Such information could provide needed intelligence if Obama decides to proceed with airstrikes on ISIS fighters, as requested by Iraq.

    http://www.cnn.com/...
    •  I thought the NSA had us covered on this (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Onomastic, tb mare, NonnyO, Skippah
    •  Not one American boot sole... (18+ / 0-)

      ...should step on Iraqi soil, except to evacuate that damned huge embassy.

      Float like a manhole cover, sting like a sash weight! Clean Coal Is A Clinker!

      by JeffW on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 09:00:08 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  War Lobbyists (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JeffW, indres, Calamity Jean

      Of course WcCain's "plan" is what the Pentagon is proposing to the president. WcCain doesn't make plans. He makes appointments with military contractors and their war lobbyists. That's all he's ever done, since he got back from Vietnam and worked for the Navy meeting lobbyists.

      And of course the Pentagon's "plan" is the same as the war lobbyists. The Pentagon's job is just to lose wars, starting with pitching war lobbyist plans to the president. Who do you think runs this country, anyhow?

      "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

      by DocGonzo on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 09:18:56 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Is it legal? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Calamity Jean

      My understanding is that it would be illegal for US troops to go to Iraq without a Status of Forces Agreement.

      So is it illegal for the US to send troops to Iraq?

      And my further understanding is the SOFA is needed to give immunity to US troops killing and blowing things up in Iraq, and the Iraqi government has refused to grant such immunity.  

      So is the idea of sending troops to Iraq include the possibility of those troops being arrested or maybe sued for killing and blowing things up?

      "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

      by Hugh Jim Bissell on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 10:19:21 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The whole thing is illegal, not to put too fine a (0+ / 0-)

        point on it. But the SOFA thing is just to protect us troops who might do, you know, stuff like this:

        "The Kill Team: How U.S. Soldiers in Afghanistan Murdered Innocent Civilians
        Plus: An exclusive look at the war crime images the Pentagon tried to censor"

        http://www.rollingstone.com/...

        And how about those GIs, in this time of sensitivity to women's rights, who go off base and, you know, rape the local females? Sometimes this, http://www.usatoday.com/... or this, http://www.nbcnews.com/... very rarely prosecuted at all unless the noise is too great. If you're a US Imperial military contractor,

        The SOFA or equivalent, like the thing "we" are hoping to get Karzai's successor to sign in Notagainistan, is a fig leaf designed by our Imperial masters to help protect them from "rule of law" in the places they are, um, "present." To protect them from having to answer for stuff like that in a local court under the laws of the nation they are "present" in. Imagine what WE would want if/when it got to the point that there were foreign forces, troops as it were, with their boots on OUR ground, we would want them subject to OUR laws.

        Oh, wait! That's already happened, way back when! http://law2.umkc.edu/...

        And when WE try them, if we ever do, in our military courts, what's the likelihood of that, again? Ask the people involved in Abu Ghraib and stuff like that -- a few lambs thrown to the wolves, and like with My Lai, the people who put it all in motion walk away, walk away.

        I am a Vietnam vet and have to thank all the assholes that are beating the war drums and getting all ready to send troops to do idiotic violence to other humans in a place neither they nor their masters understand, on the most foolish of pretexts, from behind the invisible but impermeable walls of the Beltway Bubble, in the service of making our war contractors ever richer and giving a few general officers an even better stairstep up the ladder of advancement. Thanks, assholes, for helping me get over years of therapy and get back to those visions and dreams of yesteryear. Thanks a fucking lot.

        And to you people who say "we have to do SOMEthing," well, YOU go do it. Figure out what YOU can do to un-ring the bell, put the toothpaste back in the tube, stuff the entrails back into the amputated bodies of all those people. The Military, and I don't care how fucking Special you think the Forces are and how omnicompetent, can kill people and blow shit up but the Military knows about converting money to materiel and procuring idiot weapons and deploying them and paying contractors outrageous amounts to build stuff like showers that electrocute our own troops. If the goal is to kill all the "towelheads," get your military to unlimber those creaking nuclear weapons and do it. If the idea is to "spread democracy," what your Rulers are doing is NONE OF THAT. And how much "security" and even protection of "US Interests," defined mostly as CORPORATE PROFITS FROM EXTRACTIONS OF WEALTH FROM OTHER COUNTRIES AND FROM THE POCKETS OF YOU PATRIOTIC TAXPAYERS. Oh, and "security" of CIA outposts like the one in Benghazi that's all in the news, where "our" sneaky-petes were showing how fucking smart they are by doing what they know how to do, lay out the channels for moving arms from messes like Libya to messes like Syria, to "moderates" who last week were flat-out, kill-on-sight terrorists.

        There is NOTHING OBAMA CAN DO in this situation that involves Our Imperial Military that can in any way improve the situation of the ordinary people who are being fucked over once again by the games that a few of their fellow humans play with their lives and treasure and peace, simple peace, with gardens and playgrounds for all. Kicking in doors in Tikrit or Fallujah ain't going to result in "democracy" or stability or an end to the endless idiocy of tribal humans, an idiocy fed by a few for their profit and power.

        McCain and all you other asswipes, TIME TO FIND A ROCKING CHAIR, STICK A SOCK IN YOUR MOUTHS AND SIT THIS OUT. You have NOTHING but chaos to contribute.

        "Is that all there is?" Peggy Lee.

        by jm214 on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 12:21:33 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  John McCain think? (8+ / 0-)

    That hasn't been his strong suit ever since he tapped something called Palin to be his mavericky running mate. Have him sent to Bethesda for a check up and an eval for dementia.

    Give blood. Play hockey.

    by flycaster on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 08:49:02 AM PDT

    •  Dementia was on display last night when (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      flycaster

      he was on the PBS Newshour spouting this garbage. No, John. Iraq was never stable, and we did not ever have this thing won, and just because we have been in Korea, Germany, and Japan for decades doesn't mean we should be camped out in Iraq until 2114.

  •  McCain and Cheney (11+ / 0-)

    I would just like to say that McCain and Cheney (both of them) need to STFU.

  •  How about he recruit a bunch of ex-military types (14+ / 0-)

    such as himself and his good buddy Lindsay Graham and other spry geriatrics go in there themselves and take care of things, a la Space Cowboys?

    Hey, you Jihadis get off my sand dune!

    "Reagan's dead, and he was a lousy president" -- Keith Olbermann 4/22/09

    by kovie on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 08:49:36 AM PDT

    •  You mean like THE EXPENDABLES, only lame? n/t (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JeffW, onmyknees, FindingMyVoice, jm214
    •  ALL wars everywhere... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      6412093, onmyknees

      ... need to be fought the old-fashioned way: the "leaders" need to head the armies and be as keen to fight with swords, shields, longbows, rocks, and fists exactly as they did centuries ago.

      If a "leader" can't hold his/her own in physical combat, and show how well they can manage a country under peaceful conditions, then they don't deserve to be a "leader" either.

      I'm sick of attempts to steer this nation from principles evolved in The Age of Reason to hallucinations derived from illiterate herdsmen. ~ Crashing Vor

      by NonnyO on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 09:23:46 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Just a suggestion: Read "Sun Tzu's" work on WAR: (0+ / 0-)

        Our generals and our "war leaders" supposedly read stuff like that. But the wisdom of the composite product attributed to "Sun Tzu" ought to provide something of a guide for when NOT to engage in idiotic wars:

        http://suntzusaid.com/...

        The work at the link is just stuffed with observations on the kinds of behavior our Rulers have pursued since long before Maj. Gen Smedley Butler let it out that War, as practiced by the US Empire, is "nothing but a racket."

        Not that hardly anybody gives a shit, as long as they have nice cars and "Call of Duty" and stuff like that to keep them fat, dumb and happy...

        "Is that all there is?" Peggy Lee.

        by jm214 on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 12:43:14 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  he would call in "the people that won in Iraq" (15+ / 0-)

    Where is Joseph Heller when you need him?

    •  I wasn't aware "we" had "won"... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JeffW, itsjim, technomage

      ... anything in Iraq.

      How does one "win" a war while committing war crimes, starting with the invasion based on lies for oil, then compounding the war crimes by torturing people....???

      I'm sick of attempts to steer this nation from principles evolved in The Age of Reason to hallucinations derived from illiterate herdsmen. ~ Crashing Vor

      by NonnyO on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 09:26:17 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yeah... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        NonnyO

        ...where's all the loot?

        So endith the trick.

        by itsjim on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 09:58:35 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  There were a lot of participation medals given (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        NonnyO

        out.  

        "There's been a little complication with my complication"

        by dash888 on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 11:41:41 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  In what did they participate? (0+ / 0-)

          Illegal and unconstitutional invasion of a country based on lies for oil. Illegal and unconstitutional torture, something that not only violates international treaties but US law.

          Nothing "heroic," that's for sure.  Remember the first orders the military had upon getting to Baghdad & the countryside of Iraq?  "Protect the oil ministry building, and the oil wells."

          Destroying historical objects and knowledge found in museums and libraries that form the basis of much of Judaeo-Christian "culture" before the reichwingnuts and teahadists got 'hold of and twisted the meaning of it all...?

          They most assuredly did/do NOT "fight and die" protecting our "freedoms" which were never under attack in the first damned place!  [I can't believe that still comes up as a 'reason'  to "fight them over there so we don't have to fight them here."]

          I'm sick of attempts to steer this nation from principles evolved in The Age of Reason to hallucinations derived from illiterate herdsmen. ~ Crashing Vor

          by NonnyO on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 05:25:02 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  "THAT'S ONE HELL OF A CATCH'" (0+ / 0-)

      the best there is...

  •  Breaking news, McCain is right on... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    gypsyrose, Yonit

    Well, it would be news if it were true, ever...

    "the northern lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see. Was that night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee". - Robert Service, Bard of the Yukon

    by Joe Jackson on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 08:52:28 AM PDT

  •  There John McCain goes again, (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JeffW, Mr MadAsHell, NonnyO, onmyknees

    talking to his vegetables:

    "My Friends....."

    -4.75, -5.33 Cheney 10/05/04: "I have not suggested there is a connection between Iraq and 9/11."

    by sunbro on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 08:52:54 AM PDT

  •  Damn straight General (9+ / 0-)

    Stay the hell out of other people's religious wars. It is a no win proposition. I feel sorry for the people going through this but there is little we can do that will make it better. It is their fight, not ours. Take the money we would spend on it and put it into research/development of a replacement for petroleum.

    Randy

  •  The Old Boat Anchor: he's dim, Jed! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    a2nite, NonnyO

    I.m firmly convinced McCain hates his sons, since they are in the Navy and the Marines, and could easily end up back in Iraq.

    Float like a manhole cover, sting like a sash weight! Clean Coal Is A Clinker!

    by JeffW on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 08:58:32 AM PDT

  •  I watched McCain being interviewed yesterday... (17+ / 0-)

    Frankly, he's still pissed about not being President. So, he does everything he can to get on TV and play "pretend President".

    The way he was talking "we need to do..." or "The US stands for...". It's like he thinks he's the official mouthpiece for the United States of America. In reality, he's just 1 of 100 senators. He's not special, he's just an egomaniac. He needs to move to the back of the line.

    Unfortunately, the media are his enablers.... Why is every other media interview with John McCain when there are 99 other senators and countless other prognosticators (with a lot more actual knowledge) avaialble? When is everyone going to collectively say "Enough John! You're nothing special, and you don't know what you're talking about anyway - we're not having you on."

    Freedom isn't free. That's why we pay taxes.

    by walk2live on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 08:59:39 AM PDT

    •  I suspect that... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      onmyknees, FindingMyVoice, mmacdDE

      ...secretly, they all hope to be the one with the camera rolling when he pulls the steel balls from his coat pocket and starts going off about the strawberries.

      So endith the trick.

      by itsjim on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 10:02:59 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The Sunday media shows have become (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mmacdDE

      so reliant on McCain and his puppet, Graham, that they have rendered themselves completely irrelevant and out--of-touch with everyone outside the Beltway. Just look at the "shrinkage" of their ratings---and the demographics? Neither McCain nor Graham has an ounce of credibility even with the Conservative base, so they basically are just talking into a vacuum every times they opine to the equally vacuous press that are willing to listen.

      For Christina's America

      by DWKING on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 10:07:07 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  McCain and company (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JeffW

    have got to be trolling Obama into doing something stupid, like sending Green Berets into Iraq. Wait, what?

    the best lack all conviction while the worst are full of passionate intensity

    by mailman27 on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 09:00:43 AM PDT

  •  Excuse me? (10+ / 0-)
    Up to 100 U.S. special forces -- probably Green Berets, Army Rangers and Navy SEALs -- would go to Iraq to advise its military and collect intelligence under a Pentagon plan offered to President Barack Obama, according to several U.S. officials.
    Training/advising the Iraqis? Puhleeze. That's the bull that Cheney and Bush used to win in 2004 - how many hundreds of thousands of troops that had been trained. We were on track then all right. Now you're talking about sending in 100 guys? I know the Green Berets are supposed to be tough, but it sounds like a fools errand if not a suicide mission.

    The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only object of good government. - Thomas Jefferson

    by deebee on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 09:00:59 AM PDT

    •  Goes back a lot further than that (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JeffW, indres, dinazina, FindingMyVoice

      in US military history, of course.
      Why does it seem like we're fighting the Vietnam War all over again, except we wrote down all the major events from that era on slips of paper, threw them up in the air, and picked them up to try them out in a random order. First we sent in inspectors, then we sent in a massive number of troops (as massive as we would ever have, at any rate), and now we're sending in the dozens of advisers . . .
      What's next, the invented bombing of a tank named the "Maddox"? And then maybe the French will take over!

      "Lone catch of the moon, the roots of the sigh of an idea there will be the outcome may be why?"--from a spam diary entitled "The Vast World."

      by bryduck on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 09:12:50 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Exactly. We already did this... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JeffW, onmyknees

      and clearly, it didn't work out too well.  Why even bother?  It's sticking a finger in the dike.  Iraq will do what it does, unless we undertake another full-scale invasion.  No thanks.

      I don't know what's been trickling down, but it hasn't been pleasant---N. Pelosi

      by Russycle on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 09:29:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Come on, John, strap on that helmet, suit up (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JeffW, a2nite

    and fly, just one more mission, bombing and strafing that enemy hiding among the dunes, within that hut or mosque, invisible below in that jungle.  And if your plane is hit, and you have to bail, pray that your chute never opens, for what awaits you below in captivity.

  •  well somebody needs to ask the GOP, since we all (8+ / 0-)

    know how CONCERNED they are with the deficit and how much we spend. Somebody PLEASE ask them if we go in to Iraq, WHO is going to PAY FOR IT? Sounds like a reasonable question to me....

    •  The 99%, that's who... (7+ / 0-)

      ...in blood, sweat, toil, tears, and taxes.

      Float like a manhole cover, sting like a sash weight! Clean Coal Is A Clinker!

      by JeffW on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 09:04:10 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Don't need to ask. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      NonnyO

      PBO has stated he doesn't need Congressional approval to go back to Iraq.

      Your question is best directed to the current liar in Chief.

      Obama Tells Congress He Doesn’t Need Permission for New Iraq War
      Existing Authorizations Are Still in Place
      by Jason Ditz, June 18, 2014

      Earlier this year, President Obama gave tentative support to the idea of repealing the Authorization for Use of Military Force (AUMF) against Iraq, noting that the war was over. Congress never pulled the trigger, with hawks arguing against it.

      Tonight, on the eve of a new US military operation in Iraq, President Obama is arguing he doesn’t need any Congressional authorization for his new foray into Iraq, since the old AUMF is still on the books.

      Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R – KY) and House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi (D – CA) agreed with this assessment, saying the AUMF still applied, and that President Obama was just telling Congressional leaders what he plans to do.

      President Obama has long downplayed the need for Congressional approval for his military adventures, and publicly eschewed any vote on US involvement in the attack on Libya, saying NATO’s decision to attack obliged the US to war no matter what Congress thought.

      The administration’s exact intentions in Iraq remain unclear, as they have withheld public pledges trying to coax Iraqi reforms, and most recently. the ouster of Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki. They have ruled out “combat troops,” but seem to be willing to split hairs by arguing that ground troops they do send won’t technically be combat troops.

      http://news.antiwar.com/...

      •  There is NO provision in Article I (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Skippah

        ... that allows for a transfer of war powers and how to pay for an illegal and unconstitutional war to be transferred to a president.

        The AUMFs were passed because going after a little criminal gang (Al Qaeda) that claimed their people had committed the heinous criminal acts on 9/11 were done so for the simple reason the little criminal gang had NO connection to any country and their members were NOT part of any country's military forces.

        I don't believe the AUMFs are constitutional, but that's all they've got to go on to claim a president can "legally" send troops to another country without Congress declaring a war.

        IMHO, the AUMFs should all be repealed in their entirety... along with repealing all the bad laws passed that took away our rights.  [I'm old and I want my rights restored before I die sometime in the next 32 years.]

        I'm sick of attempts to steer this nation from principles evolved in The Age of Reason to hallucinations derived from illiterate herdsmen. ~ Crashing Vor

        by NonnyO on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 09:37:10 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Shut Your Pie Hol McCain (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JeffW

    You proved your incompetence with your VP selection and your consistently WRONG views on Iraq.  Just STFU and let the competent speak -- like, er, David Patreus LOL

  •  Didn't The US Train And Advise Iraqi Military (6+ / 0-)

    Before they left?

    If I was a communist, rich men would fear me...And the opposite applies. The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles.

    by stewarjt on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 09:05:34 AM PDT

    •  Yep (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JeffW

      But I would find it hard to accept; tearing their clothes off; dropping their weapons and running for their lives was part of the curriculum

      I want 1 less Tiny Coffin, Why Don't You? Support The President's Gun Violence Plan.

      by JML9999 on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 09:17:39 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Good Old John McCain (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JML9999, JeffW

    As he sees it, the solution to every problem is a hammer, or in this case to bomb it.

    ISIS isn't stupid and undoubtedly its forces are in small groups intermingled with civilians.  So what would be an acceptable ISIS to civilian kill ratio if we were to use bombs?

    5 civilians to get 1 ISIS?  10 to 1?  20 to 1?

    I have a ratio for you John, for every bomb we drop we kill 5 ISIS guys and create 10 more from the pissed off civilian population that survives the bomb.

    "Some men see things as they are and ask, 'Why?' I dream of things that never were and ask, 'Why not?"

    by Doctor Who on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 09:05:54 AM PDT

  •  Shorter McCain-Petraeus (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    a2nite, JeffW, 6412093

    Senator keep your shirt on and excuse me I need to put my pants on.

    I want 1 less Tiny Coffin, Why Don't You? Support The President's Gun Violence Plan.

    by JML9999 on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 09:06:48 AM PDT

  •  John graduated 894 out of 899 in his naval academy (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JML9999, JeffW

    class. He barely passed. Enough said.

    If you can't fix stupid does that mean the Republican party will always be broken?

    by gypsyrose on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 09:08:53 AM PDT

    •  Math is hard (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      gypsyrose, JeffW, annieli
      2] McCain did well in academic subjects that interested him, such as literature and history, but studied only enough to pass subjects he struggled with, such as mathematics.[5][13] He came into conflict with higher-ranking personnel and did not always obey the rules, which contributed to a low class rank (894 of 899), despite a high IQ.[11][14] McCain graduated in 1958.[11]

      I want 1 less Tiny Coffin, Why Don't You? Support The President's Gun Violence Plan.

      by JML9999 on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 09:13:45 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'm surprised he was allowed to fly? (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JML9999, JeffW

        That is usually reserved for the top 2% of the class.

        If you can't fix stupid does that mean the Republican party will always be broken?

        by gypsyrose on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 09:18:36 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  His Dad & Grandad the admirals helped him fail up (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          gypsyrose, JeffW, annieli, GreatLakeSailor

          I voted Tuesday, May 6, 2014 because it is my right, my responsibility and because my parents moved from Alabama to Ohio to vote. Unfortunately, the republicons want to turn Ohio into Alabama.

          by a2nite on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 09:22:13 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  When you father is an admiral... (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          gypsyrose, a2nite, annieli

          ...and your grandfather was an admiral, somebody owes somebody.

          The Old boat Anchor's problem was that he tried to emulate Grandpa, a naval aviation pioneer, and Dad, who was a submariner.

          Gives the term "crash dive" a whole `nother meaning.

          I'm gratified that my father-in-law, a member of the Naval Academy Class of 1940, did better than McCain, and had no clout other than talent and a willingness to learn. Sad to say, he may be leaving this world soon.

          Float like a manhole cover, sting like a sash weight! Clean Coal Is A Clinker!

          by JeffW on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 09:27:35 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  And the one war he was actually IN he was captured (0+ / 0-)

      by the enemy.  And he's been 180 degrees wrong about all the other wars that he cheerleads from the sidelines.  And somehow this crusty bitter old man is an authority on war that deserves to be listened to?

  •  "Senator Death" (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    a2nite, JeffW

    Remember Dr. Kevorkian?  Many referred to him as "Dr. Death."  But Dr. Kevorkian was a humanitarian whose purpose was to assist the terminally ill die peacefully and with dignity.  McCain's the one who better deserves "Death" as part of his honorific. Indeed, "Senator Death" seems just about right for a curmudgeonly old warmonger so willing to send young people to their graves.

  •  operator (5+ / 0-)

    please connect me to the people who won in Iraq.

    ....

  •  I got there first! See diary below (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JeffW

    Someone once asked me why do you always insist on taking the hard road? and I replied why do you assume I see two roads?

    by funluvn1 on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 09:11:07 AM PDT

  •  Adulterer Betrayus already showed... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JeffW, Skippah

    ... the world that he lacks good judgment.  Having the good sense to resign is the only evidence that he can occasionally use his noggin for something other than a hat rack.

    So..., why does John McFail think it would be good to re-hire someone who already failed in both his job and his personal life for his lack of mature judgment...?  Are McFail's mental faculties disappearing because he's going senile?

    Bringing Adulterer Betrayus back to a governmental position would be a mistake and show us all that the person making that kind of mistake also shows a huge lack of good judgment.

    McFail - whose personal and professional life has been a series of failures over many decades - needs to retire and take his failing mental faculties with him.

    I'm sick of attempts to steer this nation from principles evolved in The Age of Reason to hallucinations derived from illiterate herdsmen. ~ Crashing Vor

    by NonnyO on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 09:11:42 AM PDT

    •  Hey, wait a minute. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JeffW, NonnyO
      The retired general warned Wednesday that the political conditions now in Iraq mean that military intervention would falter because both sides would perceive the United States as favoring one religious faction against another rather than as squashing terrorism alone.

      “This cannot be the United States being the air force for Shia militias, or a Shia on Sunni Arab fight,” he said at a London conference.

      Petraeus still has his passport?  The U.S. didn't revoke it after he shared classified documents with his mistress?  Well, ain't that something.

      Dallasdoc: "Snowden is the natural successor to Osama bin Laden as the most consequential person in the world, as his actions have the potential to undo those taken in response to Osama."

      by gooderservice on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 09:28:55 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Considering the Old Boat Anchor's flying skills... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JML9999, NonnyO

      ...match the skills that Petraeus has, well...

      Float like a manhole cover, sting like a sash weight! Clean Coal Is A Clinker!

      by JeffW on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 09:30:06 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I'd Rather See (5+ / 0-)
    AP reporting: Obama is expected to announce Thursday that he is deploying about 100 Republican Congressmen to Iraq to help train & advise Iraqi forces
    Imagine!  They would bring that country to their knees a shutdown in no time.  And since the Republican congressman are itching to go there -- it would be a win win all around.  
  •  Yeah? Didn't we do this for years? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    gooderservice, JeffW, FindingMyVoice

    The trained units ran from the old Iraqi Army, the one we tried to pay off after disbanding.

  •  Sure, it would be a step in his direction, BUT.... (5+ / 0-)

    @ZekeJMiller's tweet: "AP Reporting: Obama is expected to announce Thursday that he is deploying about 100 Green Berets to Iraq...."

    "I'm sure it won't satisfy McCain, but it certainly sounds like it would be a step in his direction"

    ....since Obama did it, he'll do a complete flip-flop, and suddenly be against ANY US intervention, and he'll whine that Obama never got Congressional approval, and we shouldn't be sending troops in because we're a "war weary" nation, and have already wasted TRILLIONS of dollars and we can't afford it, blah blah blah.

    Because, as we've seen, McCain is for everything until Obama actually does it.  The McCain is completely against it.

  •  Boots on the Ground (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JeffW, JML9999

    Someone put that raving lunatic WcCain in a nursing home where he can imagine he's the president on TV for the remaining years until he joins the people he's sent to war after war in Arlington National Cemetery.

    BTW, Obama is sending 100 Green Berets to Iraq as "scouts for air strikes", so we're already escalating this definitive "dumb war".

    "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

    by DocGonzo on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 09:16:35 AM PDT

  •  Not a Petraeus fanboy but agree with his (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JML9999, JeffW, annieli

    statement 100%. So, since Obama hasnt made a foreign policy decision I agreed with since, well, maybe never, he'll probably do the opposite. We'll find out soon.

  •  You can tell McCain is happy... (4+ / 0-)

    and overjoyed to be surrounded by reporters with cameras and recorders. He lives for that shit.

    I ♥ rock crushers.

    by fly on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 09:31:01 AM PDT

  •  Let's establish a Special Forces Unit of Iraq War (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    a2nite, GreatLakeSailor

    experts such as McCain, Rummy, Cheney, Rice and Bush (who would be the team leader), and drop them into Iraq.

    They'll be greeted as liberators and have everything under control in a couple of weeks.

    American Presidents: 43 men, 0 women. Ready for Hillary

    by atana on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 09:46:07 AM PDT

  •  As a Sunni (0+ / 0-)

    I do perceive (now) that US is favoring Iran and Shias against us. The Syrian crisis is going on for years and Sunnis being persecuted by Alawites (close to Shias), yet US did not intervene. Which was perhaps right thing in terms of not getting involved, but now they are getting involved clearly sends wrong message. I mean either stay out completely, or if you were going to get involved then again question rises, why not Syria?

  •  Dumbest effing member of the Senate (0+ / 0-)

    John:  Remind me how you would have dealt with the expiration of the Status of Forces Agreement in 2011.

    'You give me a water board, Dick Cheney and one hour, and I'll have him confess to the Sharon Tate murders.' -Jesse Ventura

    by NepentheRising on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 09:48:49 AM PDT

  •  Because (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JML9999, FindingMyVoice

    ...that worked so well in Vietnam.

    America, we can do better than this...

    by Randomfactor on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 09:54:17 AM PDT

  •  NPR's military expert (who also teaches at the (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JML9999, a2nite, Superpole, FindingMyVoice

    Army War College) says ISIS is spread out thru Mosul. Bombing would simply destroy a city of about 2M citizens.

    It's not an option.

    © grover


    So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not. -- Me.

    by grover on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 09:59:12 AM PDT

  •  Why is traditional media addicted to his teat? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Skippah

    David Gregory, George Stephanopoulos, Bob Schieffer, Wolf Blitzer?  This is you!

    The odd thing is that they continue to book Wrong McCain not because he has anything factually new or substantive to add to the information available, they book their "guests" as if their shows are light half hour reality tv shows - you need dramatic tension to make a compelling show, and so you must have a protagonist and an antagonist to "sell".  It's an easier way to "create a snappy Sunday news show" than simply to rely on thoughtful investigation and discourse.

    It's also why Gregory's ratings have plummeted to third place.  He's terrible as an interviewer, he is too lightweight, has zero gravitas, and seems to want to either suck up to his guests or berate them.  He doesn't know how to probe in an intelligent and respectful way.  Because his lack of pre-show research and facility with complex topics shows in his performance.  He's being shown up by NBC colleagues like Maddow (who is one of the smartest and most respectful interviewers in the legit news business) and Comedy Network's Colbert (who is one of the smartest and cleverest interviewers in the comedy (and legit) news business).  

    "Out of Many, One Nation." This is the great promise of these United States of America -9.75 -6.87

    by Uncle Moji on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 10:04:28 AM PDT

  •  More good news, of course.... (0+ / 0-)

    But I'm not sure how. Unless you count getting yet one more chance to look like an idiot.

    Battling psychiatric myths with sensible skepticism at www.makingsenseofpsychiatry.com

    by candid psychiatrist on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 10:44:00 AM PDT

  •  The "surge"... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mmacdDE

    was a concerted military effort to partition Iraqi cities by erecting 15' concrete walls, and installing checkpoints throughtout. This made it very difficult for insurgents to transfer explosives, and armaments to be used.
    Its purpose was intended to be short term to allow time for diplomatic agreements to be arranged between factions.
    IT WAS NOT A MILITARY VICTORY!!! IT WAS NEVER MEANT TO BE PERMANENT!!
    Now, when the GOP references 'the surge' in terms of a US military victory, you will know that as usual, they're lying.

  •  Time to say goodbye (0+ / 0-)

    He has reached the pinnacle of his political unimportance.  All he says is bla,bla,bla.  He is far beyond the range of giving good advice.  It's non existent.  All he wants is air time for his ego.  Quit having these old geezers on talk and advice shows.

  •  So, 100 "advisers" on the ground (0+ / 0-)

    Yesterday, one of the threads here on dkos was lit up with people saying the first 275 was not an indication of things to come; that they were for evac only.  

    Maybe yes, maybe no on the evac only for those 275, but like always, a few leads to a few more...then a few more...then pretty soon we got a war.

    If the 275 are for evac, then they oughtta be done by about 3:30, maybe 4:00pm on Friday, and we can all head home and have a beer.

    And cancel the 100 green berets.  No more meat for the NeoCon meat grinder.  It's like crystal meth to a tweeker - honest!, I'll only do one hit.  Enough already.

    The only reason the 1% are rich is because the 99% agree they are.

    by GreatLakeSailor on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 10:55:11 AM PDT

    •  So now, 2:18PM central, MSNBC (0+ / 0-)

      is talking about 300 "advisers"

      And just as bad, they are pontificating that Obama is sending them because the Right Wing Meat Grinder folks are in a kerfuffle and he doesn't want to be "vulnerable"...whatever the fuck that has to do with intelligent policy is beyond me.

      The only reason the 1% are rich is because the 99% agree they are.

      by GreatLakeSailor on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 12:22:20 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  John McCain, et al.... (0+ / 0-)

    What an indictment of our "media."  There aren't as many people in the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade as there are people who were completely wrong about every aspect of the war from the beginning being paraded about as "experts" by our "media" now.  Cheney, Kristol, and the other members of the Project For A New American Century.  A mass parade of war criminals considered legitimate experts on insurgent warfare by the media.  And Fox is not the only one guilty of that.

    We have been training, equipping and advising the Iraqi Army since "Mission Accomplished."  With all that training, equipment and advice, it took ISIS how long to capture Mosul and Tikrit?

    We spent nearly 20 years advising, training and equipping the South Vietnamese Army.  It took the North Vietnamese Army how long to take complete control of South Vietnam after the US pullout.

    Our track record at training, equipping and advising other country's military forces to hold back a dedicated insurgency just isn't all that good.

    As for McCain, Jesus Christ, what an immense megalomaniacal tool.....

  •  every time McCain opens his mouth (0+ / 0-)

    I thank god he is not president. He seems to be out of it these days. Petraeus had to leave the military because of his affair. Did McCain forget

  •  McCain got pretty hot headed on PBS (0+ / 0-)

    News Hour last night when  asked some tough questions that sort of put him on the defensive.
    He does not like to b e challenged. He should just shut up.

  •  Poor old senile John McCain (0+ / 0-)

    He didn't graduate at the bottom of his class at Annapolis and crash 5 planes fer nuthin. He just wasn't too smart to begin with and increasing age and senility are not helping his mental acuity.

    Seems that whenever he hears the word war, he is programmed to respond positively to US participation, even if it's on the wrong side in a civil war, something that we should have learned to avoid after our experience in Vietnam.

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