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U.S. troops in Iraq
Three months before Barack Obama was born, President John F. Kennedy sent 400 Green Berets and 100 other advisers to Vietnam. By mid-1963, there were 15,000 military advisers there, and 187 of them had been killed.

Whether one agrees or disagrees, as I do, with President Obama's decision to send 300 Special Forces advisers and another 275 military personnel to Iraq—effectively doubling the number of U.S. troops in the country—his decision, despite being couched in talk about how "mission creep" will not become a factor, should be troubling to anyone even vaguely familiar with the damage caused at home and abroad by American intervention in the region. This is the first increase in U.S. military personnel in Iraq in the two-and-a-half years since welcome removal by Obama of the last combat troops from that country. It ought to give shivers to Americans with the slightest appreciation of our interventionist history.

However, in the past few weeks, as violence directed at the corrupt and authoritarian Baghdad government has ramped up, we've been witness to another chilling matter, the corrosive spread by many liberal pundits, politicians and bloggers of the idea that the invasion was a "mistake."

Not a new assertion, of course. Some people were saying so even before that March day when Washington unleashed shock and awe on Iraq more than 11 years ago.

Others took longer to come to the same conclusion. One of them, John Kerry, voted as a senator in 2002 for the resolution the Bush administration eagerly took as carte blanche to wage war on Iraq. Kerry called the invasion "wrong" in 2004, but not until 2006 did he explicitly label it a mistake. This recalled for many his statement 35 years previously when, as spokesman for Vietnam Veterans Against the War, he had famously said in testimony to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, "How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?"

More than two years ago we learned the names of the last two American combat soldiers to die in Iraq for the lies of the neo-conservatives, other riff-raff known as "public intellectuals," gullible or hawkish Democratic enablers and self-righteous pundits who called anti-war critics "traitors."

Those two men were Army 1st Lt. Dustin D. Vincent, 25, of Mesquite, Texas, killed in Kirkuk by small arms fire Nov. 3, 2011, and Specialist David Emanuel Hickman, 23, of Greensboro, North Carolina, killed in Baghdad by an improvised explosive device on Nov. 14, 2011.

Below the fold is more commentary.

Iraq in 2007
In response to the imperialist ideologues the media are encouraging to belch the same terrible advice they offered previously about what to do in Iraq, politicians, pundits, bloggers and even long-time anti-war activists are saying that Hickman, Vincent and thousands of other American military personnel were killed for a mistake.  

That's not even close to the real reasons.

Calling the invasion and slaughter that followed a mistake papers over the lies that took us to Iraq. This assessment of the war as mistake is coming mostly from well-intentioned people, some of whom spoke out against the war before it began and every year it dragged on. It may seem like a proper retort to critics of Obama (who inherited that war rather than started it). But it feeds a dangerous myth.

A mistake is not putting enough garlic in the minestrone, taking the wrong exit, typing the wrong key, falling prey to an accident.

Invading Iraq was not a friggin' mistake. Not an accident. Not some foreign policy mishap.

The guys in charge carried out a coldly though ineptly calculated act. An act made with the intention of privatizing Iraq and using that country as a springboard to other Middle Eastern targets, most especially Iran. They led a murderous, perfidious end run around international law founded on a dubious "preventive" military doctrine piggybacked on the nation's rage over the 9/11 attacks. An imperial, morally corrupt war. They ramrodded it past the objections of those in and out of Congress who challenged the fabricated claims of administration advisers who had been looking for an excuse to take out Saddam Hussein years before the U.S. Supreme Court plunked George W. Bush into the Oval Office.

The traditional media did not make a mistake either. They misled their audiences through sloppiness and laziness because it was easier and better for ratings than for them actually to do their jobs. For the worst of them, the misleading was deliberate. They fed us disinformation. Lapdogs instead of watchdogs.

In case you've forgotten or never knew or are skeptical, thanks to the Center for Public Integrity, you can check out those lies at The War Card: Orchestrated Deception on the Path to War.

Charles Lewis and Mark Reading-Smith at CPI wrote in 2008:

President George W. Bush and seven of his administration's top officials, including Vice President Dick Cheney, National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice, and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, made at least 935 false statements in the two years following September 11, 2001, about the national security threat posed by Saddam Hussein's Iraq. Nearly five years after the U.S. invasion of Iraq, an exhaustive examination of the record shows that the statements were part of an orchestrated campaign that effectively galvanized public opinion and, in the process, led the nation to war under decidedly false pretenses.

On at least 532 separate occasions (in speeches, briefings, interviews, testimony, and the like), Bush and these three key officials, along with Secretary of State Colin Powell, Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz and White House press secretaries Ari Fleischer and Scott McClellan, stated unequivocally that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction (or was trying to produce or obtain them), links to Al Qaeda, or both. This concerted effort was the underpinning of the Bush administration's case for war.

It is now beyond dispute that Iraq did not possess any weapons of mass destruction or have meaningful ties to Al Qaeda. ...

In short, the Bush administration led the nation to war on the basis of erroneous information that it methodically propagated and that culminated in military action against Iraq on March 19, 2003. Not surprisingly, the officials with the most opportunities to make speeches, grant media interviews, and otherwise frame the public debate also made the most false statements, according to this first-ever analysis of the entire body of prewar rhetoric.

Those 935 lies, by the way, did not include "indirect false statements" such as that Iraq had possession of "dangerous weapons."

No. The invasion of Iraq was not a mistake.

Officially, at least until Thursday's announcement that nearly 600 additional military personnel are being sent to Iraq, the war has been over since December 11, 2011, when the last U.S. combat troops departed. That was 105 months after the Bush administration (with assistance from a supine media and a timid Congress) concocted the lies that got the invasion underway.

But, as of this January, in addition to the few hundred U.S. military, there were still around 5,000 American-paid contractors in Iraq, about a third of them U.S. citizens, doing all kinds of work, including handling security and training Iraqi military personnel for the Pentagon and State Department. Plus, of course, there were an unknown number of CIA operatives as well as agents of organizations without public acronyms for whom no public count is available. So, to have said U.S. involvement in the Iraq war was actually, truly over required a bit of fancy footwork.

For Iraqis, the war was clearly not over at the end of 2011, although it continued at a significantly lower level than it had after the sectarian cleansing that, in the words of the London-based journalist of Kurdish background Nir Rosen, had left few to kill. Now, more than a decade after the U.S. invasion that we were told would be greeted with flowers, uncover chemical and nuclear weapons and turn Iraq into a model democracy to be imitated across the Middle East, the war has heated up again in opposition to the Shiite-dominated government. The toll of the victims of the ad hoc coalition of revanchist Sunnis and the brutal jihadis of ISIS—the Islamic State of Iraq and Greater Syria—grows day by day, with thousands dead and expectations for much worse to come.

The promiscuous stacking of skulls that began with the U.S. invasion has begun again in earnest.

Americans lost nearly 4,500 men and women in uniform in over eight years of war, with allied nations, mostly Britain, losing more than 300 of their own troops.

The death toll of Iraqi soldiers and civilians has been a good deal higher. Just how much higher will never be fully known because the Iraq government stopped formally counting civilian fatalities in December 2003. The excuse for this was that announcing the numbers amounted to propaganda that aided those fighting the Americans. Several statistical studies, one claiming as many as 1.2 million dead Iraqi civilians, were criticized, unsurprisingly, by officials with an ax to grind, but also by statisticians who did not view the matter through a political lens. Whatever the actual total, at the very least 140,000 civilians and 50,000 combatants have been killed by military and paramilitary actions in Iraq since March 2003.

It's not a difficult search to find the names of the American dead. Every single one of them. Not so with the Iraqis. Sure, their families know. But no dedicated websites have compiled a truly comprehensive toll. Their names will never appear on any commemoration wall.

Far too many liberals and a handful of repentant conservatives keep feeding the delusion about how this occurred. Just as was the case in Vietnam, they didn't lose their lives because of a mistake. Not the Americans, not their allies and not the Iraqis.

Unfortunately, it's clear that this mischaracterization will continue to be the way the Iraq war is described by much of the traditional media. A media that failed to reveal the motives behind the propaganda assault the Bush administration (and its allies across the truncated American political spectrum) promoted to get the war going. Two and three decades from now, the one thing our grandchildren and great-grandchildren will likely be reading about the invasion of Iraq will be that it was a terrible mistake.

Even if not another American in uniform dies in Iraq, the war will continue, just as it did in the case of Vietnam, to claim victims long after the official death roster has been stamped complete. Many injured veterans of the Iraq war, more than 150,000 with traumatic brain injuries, will live out psychologically and economically diminished lives. Families will see no end of suffering from the impact of PTSD and interrupted civilian careers. The trillions of dollars spent on shock and awe and all that came afterward will weaken our economy for years to come.

In Iraq, far more individuals and families face the same impacts. These are made worse by lack of a social infrastructure capable of dealing with them. Hundreds of thousands of exiles and internally displaced Iraqis continue to live a hand-to-mouth existence even as hundreds of thousands of new exiles flee the most recent fighting. Rebuilding what the war destroyed will take decades. Just getting the electricity back on 24 hours a day in some major cities is still, after all this time, years away. As we are seeing, sectarian grudges engendered by the ethnic cleansing that accompanied the insurgency will not be easily submerged in the new Iraq.

In addition to all that spilled blood, close to a trillion dollars were spent on the war, and its aftermath, including health care for veterans, likely will double that cost.

All this occurred because the likes of Dick Cheney and his pals brewed truths, half-truths, quarter-truths, outright fabrications, disinformation, misinformation, omissions, inventions, deceptions, deflections, revisions, excisions and other serpentine resourcefulness into a propaganda barrage specifically designed to persuade enough people not to stand in the way of their squalid project.

Consequently, thousands of Americans are now dead because war criminals sent them abroad fraudulently in the name of liberation, security and prevention. The Iraqi people got none of those things.

And because too few people who should have stopped these war criminals, who were in a position in the U.S. Senate to stop them, mustered the courage to stand in their way. They let them get away with their scheme. A few eagerly encouraged them.

Uncounted thousands of Iraqis are dead because of slime who waved the bloody shirt of 9/11 in one hand, Old Glory in the other, and simultaneously managed to shred our Constitution and decades of international law. People who, if this were a just world, would long ago have appeared in shackles to be tried for war crimes.

Nearly four years ago I wrote:

…even before George W. Bush was scooted into office 5-to-4, the men he came to front for were already at work plotting their rationale for sinking deeper military and economic roots in the Middle East, petropolitics and neo-imperialist sophistry greedily intertwined. When they stepped into office, as Richard Clarke explained to us, terrorism gave them no worries. Then, when they weren't figuring out how to lower taxes on their pals and unravel the tattered social safety net, they focused — as Paul O'Neill informed us—on finding the right excuse to persuade the American people to go to war with Saddam Hussein as a prelude to going to war with some of his neighbors. In less than nine months, that excuse dropped into their laps in the form of Osama bin Laden's kamikaze crews.

From that terrible day forward, Richard Cheney and his sidekick Donald Rumsfeld and their like-minded cabal of rogues engineered the invasion. They didn't slip the U.S. into Iraq by mistake. Like the shrewd opportunists they showed themselves to be in the business world, they saw the chance to carry out their invasion plan and they moved every obstacle—most especially the truth—out of their way to make it happen. …

They created a gang of renegades specifically to carry out the Project for a New American Century's plans for Middle East hegemony. They didn't carefully weigh options and evaluate the pros and cons and make errors in judgment, the sort of thing that can happen to the most careful individual or team. They studiously ignored everyone who warned them against taking the action they had decided upon years before the World Trade Centers were turned to ashes and dust. [...]

The pretense that Bush hadn't made up his mind months before the invasion was yet another lie. It was a ploy to suggest falsely that the president and the ideological crocodiles in the White House gave two snaps about cooperating with the international community other than as a means to camouflage their unalterable determination to stomp Iraq, plundering it under the guise of righteous magnanimity.

Torture approved at the highest levels was a deliberate, premeditated policy of international outlawry and inhumanity guided by legal arguments requested and approved by the man who soon got his reward, appointment as attorney general, and carried out on the direct orders of men like General Geoffrey Miller at the "suggestion" of Don Rumsfeld and under the command of George Walker Bush.

Planning for invasion, the invention and distortion of evidence, the ignoring of counter-advice, and the lying to Congress, to the United Nations and to the American people were not "mistakes."

Mistakes were definitely made. Twelve years ago, too many elected Democrats and too many other Americans believed the president and vice president of the United States and their chosen subordinates to be honest and honorable. To have the best interests of Americans at heart. They believed them and they believed a megamedia that operated like administration-owned megaphones instead of independent watchdogs. Those were indeed gigantic mistakes. But there were also Democrats who went along with the enterprise out of vengeance or a warped affection for America the empire-builder or for the bottom line of the military-industrial complex.

Vast numbers were made dead who would today be alive were if not for this war initiated out of American exceptionalism, hubris and doctored evidence. Thousands of dead Americans. Tens to hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqis.

Deaths in any war are terrible enough. Deaths in a fabricated war count as nothing short of murder.

Not a mistake.

Whether or not the U.S. again becomes deeply embroiled militarily because of the latest outbreak of warfare in Iraq, the pundits and the politicians probably can't be persuaded to cease calling the invasion a mistake. But progressives have no excuse. We know better.

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 10:30 AM PDT.

Also republished by Adalah — A Just Middle East.

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  •  One of the things that bugs me about the ... (216+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    whizdom, Portlaw, Simplify, Pandora, copymark, mjd in florida, a2nite, churchylafemme, rhutcheson, jasan, RandomNonviolence, Wednesday Bizzare, Calvino Partigiani, optimistic pizza, Brecht, renzo capetti, maggiejean, cai, Laurence Lewis, Bill in Portland Maine, Burned, Says Who, Yellow Canary, Yonit, anshmishra, kerflooey, ImpeccableLiberalCredentials, Rikon Snow, JeffW, IndieGuy, unfangus, Sam Sara, bkamr, Greenfinches, momomia, Denise Oliver Velez, Quilldriver, HoundDog, FrankAletha, RFK Lives, tb mare, gfv6800, deha, psnyder, willrob, dkmich, side pocket, vzfk3s, decisivemoment, Heart of the Rockies, penguins4peace, smiley7, cocinero, leonard145b, La Gitane, cynndara, Powered Grace, themank, on the cusp, peregrine kate, dbcoe, GAS, Wolf10, jck, rasbobbo, felix19, LeislerNYC, Lying eyes, NearlyNormal, InAntalya, ninkasi23, Texknight, Aunt Pat, Bryce in Seattle, Galtisalie, quill, dalemac, dsb, TomP, navajo, annieli, dotdash2u, HarryParatestis, coral, AdamR510, Tunk, vcmvo2, artisan, Toyotabob7, keyscritter, DeadHead, benamery21, VL Baker, Lady Libertine, cany, tikkun, rebel ga, OLinda, susakinovember, tardis10, dansmith17, Propter Hoc, NoMoJoe, shopkeeper, northerntier, kevinpdx, bnasley, Matt Z, Angie in WA State, dougymi, jazzmaniac, wasatch, belinda ridgewood, dRefractor, Flyswatterbanjo, OleHippieChick, allenjo, thomask, RepresentUsPlease, Santa Susanna Kid, wordene, MJ via Chicago, Karen Hedwig Backman, chuck utzman, ban nock, OrdinaryIowan, mimi, Ralphdog, bakeneko, Laurel in CA, Knucklehead, Thomas Twinnings, bunsk, Madge Montgomery, Garrett, Mary Mike, where4art, Eric Nelson, writeofwinter, sentinalnode, pitbullgirl65, dougiemac in WA, Anthony Page aka SecondComing, Tim DeLaney, fugwb, Alex Budarin, shermanesq, snazzzybird, SME in Seattle, chuckvw, BeninSC, YucatanMan, richardvjohnson, rocksout, this just in, skybluewater, MichaelNY, ypochris, slatsg, mrsfixit, Sandy on Signal, dharmafarmer, deepsouthdoug, Carlsson, RBinDLH, George3, jbsoul, technomage, Azazello, Patriot Daily News Clearinghouse, HCKAD, eOz, enhydra lutris, hooper, skepticalcitizen, sawgrass727, xanjabu, hbk, e2247, RainyDay, remembrance, OMwordTHRUdaFOG, Shockwave, reflectionsv37, Hirodog, johnosahon, River Rover, Avilyn, joesig, kurt, legendmn, TrueBlueMajority, mzkryz, TKO333, Teenygozer, Morningglory, MID Gadfly, cececville, raspberryberet, DebFrmHell, amoginesq, Rita5018, prsphnssister, judgemaggie, Bartskid1, okpkpkp, jcfclark, rabrock, dewolf99, Lilyoolily, JJustin, SphericalXS, AllanTBG, bobcat41702, Black Mare, Wolffarmer

    ...last dozen years has been the changing of definition and understanding of the term "pre-emptive" as it regards war.

    Pre-emptive war means that a country pre-empts an imminent attack, and that is generally accepted as legitimate by the international community.

    But the invasion of Iraq was not pre-emptive. No imminent attack threatened us. Not even Kuwait or Iraq's other neighbors were threatened. The Iraq war was, in fact, a "preventive" war.

    This has no standing in international law or ethics. Preventive war is aggressive war, which is a war crime, the supreme war crime that leads to all the others. No imminent threat, no pre-emptive war. But Bush and Cheney and their allies, most of the media, and even war critics have persisted in calling this pre-emptive war, when it was nothing of the sort. It may be a small distinction, but words matter.

    Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

    by Meteor Blades on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 10:04:51 PM PDT

  •  The NeoCon belief (28+ / 0-)

    That, as the sole remaining superpower, the US should apply its considerable military capability to re-shape the world for our benefit, by force, before the window closed or a peer competitor emerged.
    Simplistic, ahistorical (sorry Kagans) and immoral.  

  •  Totally agree & thanks (19+ / 0-)

    I voted Tuesday, May 6, 2014 because it is my right, my responsibility and because my parents moved from Alabama to Ohio to vote. Unfortunately, the republicons want to turn Ohio into Alabama.

    by a2nite on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 10:36:57 AM PDT

  •  I never saw this as a "mistake" but (14+ / 0-)

    as an opportunity for the oil industry to be back where they were.  It does not matter to them how many Americans are killed or maimed or how many others are either.  They want the oil and by God, they will get it one way or the other.

    •  Who got the oil? I don't see any Americans (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      a2nite, Sam Sara, Aunt Pat, Matt Z, kurt

      pumping Iraqi oil, do you?  

      Much madness is divinest sense, much sense divinest madness.

      by SpamNunn on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 11:00:44 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It was a disaster from everyone's viewpoint, (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        a2nite, Aunt Pat

        even those after oil.

      •  Yes, but a small percentage (4+ / 0-)

        Exxon has about a billion dollar per year operation in the West Qurna field, but that's the only U.S. company atm that is drilling there.

      •  The money isn't just about pumping oil (17+ / 0-)

        Halliburton et al make shit tons of money supporting the wells and rebuilding. Iraq's GDP is expected to continue growing through at least 2017, but how much of that do you think is actually "trickling down" to the Iraqi people? More than $60B has been spent on "rebuilding" Iraq.

        Nope - there's plenty of money available without actually drilling the oil. And Halliburton is by far the hands down winner. The VP's own company. I'll never, ever get, for the life of me, how Americans just let that slide. Honestly, no other justification for this stupid war needs to be made than Dick Cheney advocated it for his own profit.

        U.S. companies and Kurds: the biggest gainers in Iraq

        Mediocrity cannot know excellence ~ Sherlock Holmes

        by La Gitane on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 11:35:54 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  It was actually Al Gore who recommended (0+ / 0-)

          using Halliburton, after the first Gulf War.   You can look it up.  

          Much madness is divinest sense, much sense divinest madness.

          by SpamNunn on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 01:17:37 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  so what? (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            YucatanMan, chuckvw, kurt

            Al Gore didn't lie to get us into war with Iraq. Dick Cheney was probably the number one most responsible person for getting us into that war. And he profited handsomely from it.

            BTW, it would be more considerate to provide a link when you make a claim, as opposed to telling me to "go look it up".

            Mediocrity cannot know excellence ~ Sherlock Holmes

            by La Gitane on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 01:47:56 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I have better things to do than to spoon feed the (0+ / 0-)

              facts to people that are hostile to me and who I know could not care less if I provided them with a Library of Congress's worth of facts to back up my statements.  

              The people that I like or that I respect get the benefit of my consideration, or people that have no history with me.   You?  You are on your own.  

              It's a fact that Halliburton's work in the 1990s was praised by Al Gore's "Reinventing Government" panel, and that Halliburton received literally billions of dollars worth of no bid contracts during the Clinton Administration.  

              Much madness is divinest sense, much sense divinest madness.

              by SpamNunn on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 02:20:08 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Are you saying the Clinton administration was (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                La Gitane

                rebuilding Iraq while bombing it and enforcing a strict no-fly policy for much of the country?

                How was the administration doing that while enforcing an economic embargo?

                I'm just trying to understand what you're claiming.

                "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

                by YucatanMan on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 04:09:46 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I have no idea what you are talking about. (0+ / 0-)

                  You were not asking me, correct?

                  Much madness is divinest sense, much sense divinest madness.

                  by SpamNunn on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 05:23:45 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  The beginning comment of this was about (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    La Gitane, kurt

                    Cheney using Halliburton -- his own company -- in Iraq.

                    You responded that:

                    It was actually Al Gore who recommended (0+ / 0-)
                    using Halliburton, after the first Gulf War.   You can look it up.
                    by SpamNunn on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 03:17:37 PM CDT
                    I don't know what that has to do with Halliburton making huge loads of money in Iraq (including through KBR) after Bush/Cheney initiated a war there.

                    The Clinton administration enforced economic isolation on Iraq, no-fly zones and eventually was engaged in bombing Iraq via carrier aircraft as well as B-52s and cruise missiles.

                    So, following a comment that Cheney's war in Iraq meant massive profits for his own company - Halliburton - you divert the conversation to something about Al Gore.

                    I'm trying to get at what you are saying:  Was the Clinton campaign engaged in rebuilding Iraq while bombing it?  Or only while engaged in economic isolation of Iraq?  

                    Or are you talking about something completely non-related whatsoever, except for the word Halliburton," and the diversionary tactic of introducing the name "Al Gore"?

                    I'm asking you to explain when and where the actions you are referring to took place and for what reasons.  I'm asking that you explain your comment and how it relates to what was said about
                    Cheney
                    Illegal War
                    Iraq
                    Halliburton

                    Or do you only have insults and no facts?  Establish what you are talking about -- that's all I'm asking. What you said just doesn't follow.

                    And, as far as I know, we have no history:

                    The people that I like or that I respect get the benefit of my consideration, or people that have no history with me.   You?  You are on your own.  
                    even though that's really a remark which reflects more on you than anyone else.

                    "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

                    by YucatanMan on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 05:46:00 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                •  I'm not sure (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  YucatanMan, kurt

                  what his point is either.

                  Again, I say so what? So Al Gore praised Halliburton. So the Clinton administration gave them plenty of contracts. The fact of the matter is that Dick Cheney ran that company, talked W into picking him as VP, and then was instrumental in starting an illegal unjustified war that quadrupled that same company's value. To this day, the number one money maker in Iraq is Halliburton.

                  This has nothing to do with Al Gore, other than he wasn't president.

                  Spam sounds crabby.

                  Mediocrity cannot know excellence ~ Sherlock Holmes

                  by La Gitane on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 05:46:11 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  The privatization of many tasks (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    tubaguy

                    previously performed by the military was, to a large extent, initiated by the SecDef during the Bush 41 presidency. The same man who, when asked by reporters why we were not going to march to and take Baghdad during the first gulf war, said it would turn into a quagmire due to sectarian strife. That man...(drum roll, please)...Dick Cheney.

                    Rene Descartes was one of those who think, therefore they are
                    Those who don't think, but are anyway, outnumber them by far  ~ Ogden Nash

      •  Doesn't matter as long as oil is going into the (0+ / 0-)

        market place.  When they stop selling oil then that's a problem.  

        "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubt." Bertrand Russell I'm very certain that is true. 10−122

        by thestructureguy on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 11:40:05 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  If you think this was about American control (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Angie in WA State, Skippah

        of oil, you don't understand current political realities.

        It was about restoring control to the multinationals whose lobbyists own so many of our politicians.

        Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

        by corvo on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 11:50:22 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I understand quite well, (0+ / 0-)

          and watch as the speculators bid this higher and higher.  If you think this was about democracy or anything other than oil, you are sadly mistaken.  Lobbyists?  For real, this is all about lobbyists?  Amazing.  

          •  No, it's about corporations. (0+ / 0-)

            Lobbyists are just so many conduits.

            Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

            by corvo on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 12:53:25 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Yeah, that area is under full US control now. (0+ / 0-)

          Much madness is divinest sense, much sense divinest madness.

          by SpamNunn on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 01:18:12 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  USA only the policeman. (0+ / 0-)

            The rent-a-cops, even.

            If you want the owners, look elsewhere.

            Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

            by corvo on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 08:33:37 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  I saw a map of oil fields (0+ / 0-)

        A while back that made things really confusing. Hard to see who owned what, with so many corporations...many of them global, one after another in little pieces..like a  jigsaw puzzle.
        It is not only about the oil & gas, but also about getting it out.  Leasing the land from the different countries, which must be difficult..then building and guarding the pipelines. There also seems to be some global strategic positioning which has made the area so desirable to conquer over the centuries.

        •  They are sure pumping a lot of oil though (0+ / 0-)

          aren't they?  Baghdad was a center of trade that goes back centuries.  That position has long passed but Kirkuk, Basra are more important than ever.  

          •  I don't know (0+ / 0-)

            The kurds were the first to sign leases after the war...somehow they were separate from Iraq. I remember a big to-do with Bush about Iraq's constitution and oil leases. Those various pipe-line routes all involve several countries, and it seems when one area settles down, another fires up. I haven't paid attention in years. Out of sight, out of mind. I really want it to stay that way.

      •  Permanent military bases and Chalabi as PM (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        a2nite, kurt

        ....were parts of the plan that didn't come to pass either. What you are highlighting is that the Bush admin lied about their intentions and also that many of them believed that they were going to accomplish these things.

        Liars + delusional.

      •  From the news today... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        kurt

        …"Israel Accepts First Delivery of Disputed Kurdish Pipeline Oil"

        (Reuters) - A tanker delivered a cargo of disputed crude oil from Iraqi Kurdistan's new pipeline for the first time on Friday in Israel, despite threats by Baghdad to take legal action against any buyer…

        ...The United States, Israel's closest ally, does not support independent oil sales by the Kurdish region and has warned possible buyers against accepting the cargoes.

        http://www.reuters.com/...

        The easily offended deserve to be easily offended.--God

        by Flyswatterbanjo on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 07:26:41 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Murder doesn't show in their ledger. (19+ / 0-)

      Its cost and benefit is left to sub-contrators, shows not on the P/L statements, and, laundered through the air-conditioned boardroom, ceases to carry meaning.

      Corruption is a line-item charge.  And when the president and the vice president come from and have life-long allegiances to those in the extraction industries — motto: give us the shit free; we'll turn it into cash and leave you the mess — there is no reason to even pay the line-item cost.

      Oil is only a proxy for the deep goal, which is money extraction.  Dick Cheney's company, Halliburton, showed astonishing agility in its move from providing oil field support to providing, um, "nation-building" support.  The ROI — since no usable or sale-ready product was ever required — was much higher.

      1,000,000,000,000 USD spent.  12,000,000,000 USD shipped in cash to war zone.  6,000,000,000 USD of that unaccounted for.

      It's the biggest swindle in history.

      And still the War Criminals get top bookings on the sabbath TeeVees, or retire to their Petit Bateau-Lavoir and amuse themselves with colored mud.

      Vote rape. Vote torture. Vote War Crimes. Vote with the American top 1%.

      by Yellow Canary on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 11:07:25 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Would that they all would do so! (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        tardis10, YucatanMan, kurt

        retire to their Petit Bateau-Lavoir and amuse themselves with colored mud.

        I'd prefer prosecuting them for war crimes, but since that doesn't seem to be on offer in our best of all possible worlds, let's get them all some paint sets and Fimo dough.

        Art therapy for neo-cons.  It could be a great social good.

        © cai Visit 350.org to join the fight against global warming.

        by cai on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 11:45:38 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  you can't win (26+ / 0-)

    an already lost war. the iraqi people and the iraqi government told us to get out. a lot of people on both sides of the partisan political divide seem to forget that.

    The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

    by Laurence Lewis on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 10:42:42 AM PDT

    •  It's a miracle. I agree with LL. (4+ / 0-)
      You can't win an already lost war. the iraqi people and the iraqi government told us to get out. a lot of people on both sides of the partisan political divide seem to forget that.

      Much madness is divinest sense, much sense divinest madness.

      by SpamNunn on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 11:01:45 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  They've been "telling us" to get out (4+ / 0-)

      by fighting our troops for a decade plus.  

      But since we didn't consider ourselves "invaders" it never occurred to us that many of these "insurgents" were fighting for their country.

      Bush also signed the SOFA that agreed we'd leave.  The neo-cons would love to have that forgotten.

      Actually, they'd like to have everything forgotten, so they can invent their own world to play in.

      If only they'd all gone into computer game creation or bad fantasy novel writing...

      © cai Visit 350.org to join the fight against global warming.

      by cai on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 11:48:00 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Some of the best writing on this site in last (31+ / 0-)

    several months.  Very powerful.

    "The opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.”" -- Paul Dirac

    by Rikon Snow on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 10:44:34 AM PDT

  •  I've but one thing to say to all of these. (12+ / 0-)
    neo-conservatives, other riff-raff known as "public intellectuals," gullible or hawkish Democratic enablers and self-righteous pundits who called anti-war critics "traitors."
    Fuck all y'all.

    "The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." John Kenneth Galbraith

    by LeftOfYou on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 10:44:55 AM PDT

  •  If Obama's decision is troubling, (20+ / 0-)

    as a sitting President, then Hillary's initial vote for the AUMF is damning, and should completely disqualify her. Which, for me and other people who have a conscience, it does.

    I will not mince words here. That one, single act makes her unfit for the office. I will not vote for her, neither in the primary, nor in the general election. I think less- much, much less- of everyone who gives her a pass on that. I ask everyone, in the name of  our basic humanity, to refuse her the office of the President.

    If she is the best we can do, we deserve all of the misery she will bring. And we can do better We all know it. The fact that some of us lack the courage of our professed progressive positions should not stop the rest of us from doing what is right for our nation and the rest of the world.

    Please don't let the insanity continue. Please, for all our sakes, do not vote for Hillary Clinton.

    •  So who do YOU (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Greenfinches, cocinero, coral

      suggest?

    •  What tybandit said. (6+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Wolf10, cai, corvo, Rashaverak, reflectionsv37, kurt

      I think it would be good for democracy and for the Democrats to bring up a real, live, progressive candidate and force Hillary to fight the primaries tooth and nail.  I still think that she would likely win because there are so many voters still stuck in the old military-industrial-complex vision of world domination (preferably as post-WWII, with universal admiration and no real fighting but lots of fancy and expensive military toys).  But that's no reason not to make her work for it, and in the process drag the dialogue closer to the real American center, as opposed to the "center" that every poll shows is significantly rightward of what the majority of voters actually wants.

      •  Every time someone tries to answer that questio... (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        churchylafemme, corvo, Skippah, ypochris

        Every time someone tries to answer that question honestly, Hillary's cult- and ignoring the imbalance of innocent deaths to sound policy decisions on her record makes it a cult of personality at the very least- we get the tired old "electability, thus Republican President" dismissal. I won't play that game. I'm not answering the question of who might be better. As I said above, it's neither my responsibility nor within my sphere of influence to make that decision. I've already made mine, and that is quite literally all I can do.

    •  There is a distinction to be made between Obama (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Skippah, kurt

      and Kennedy as it relates to Kennedy sending troops into Vietnam:

      In 1961, Kennedy wanted to fund an increase in the size of the South Vietnamese Army from 150,000 to 170,000. Kennedy felt that this troop buildup was necessary and important to help win the fight and stave off communism. Kennedy was poised to continue the policy of Dwight Eisenhower.

      Barack Obama does not possess such a mindset. He for one opposed the war in Iraq from the outset. And argued for date certain to end the war as a candidate for the Presidency in 2007 at a time when George W. Bush and the Republican Party was dead set against an exit date.

      In terms of his sending in military advisers that will burgeon into an all out escalation of war, Obama answered this question of "mission creep", as was posed to him by Jim Acosta of CNN:

      Q: Thank you, Mr. President. Americans may look at this decision that you’re making today as a sneak preview of coming attractions that the number of advisers that you’re planning to send in may just be the beginning of a boots-on-the-ground scenario down the road. Why is Iraq’s civil war in the national security interest of the United States? And are you concerned about the potential for mission creep?

      PRESIDENT OBAMA: I think we always have to guard against mission creep. So let me repeat what I’ve said in the past: American combat troops are not going to be fighting in Iraq again. We do not have the ability to simply solve this problem by sending in tens of thousands of troops and committing the kinds of blood and treasure that has already been expended in Iraq. Ultimately, this is something that is going to have to be solved by the Iraqis.

      emphasis mine.

      Here we have two Presidents, Kennedy and Obama, at different stages of their thought processes in terms of being involved in a war. Kennedy, during the early stages of his administration, convinced that he should continue the policy of a predecessor, and Obama, nearing the end of his second term and having already wound down a war that he was against from the very beginning, convinced that he does not want to return to it.

      Obama has also resolved in his mind that only a political solution will bring peace in Iraq. Again, here, much different than Kennedy, who believed troop buildup and escalation was the answer.

      “Part of the task now is to see whether Iraqi leaders are prepared to rise above sectarian motivations, come together, compromise. If they can’t there’s not going to be a military solution to this problem … there’s no amount of American firepower that’s going to be able to hold the country together and I’ve made that very clear to Mr Maliki and all the other leadership inside of Iraq … they don’t have a lot of time.”
      According to Obama, unless there is a political solution, the attempt to bring peace through the military is futile.

      Kennedy and Obama, different Presidents with variant trajectories....

  •  Important. True. Well-said. (9+ / 0-)

    Thank you.  Please keep up this important work.

    Vote rape. Vote torture. Vote War Crimes. Vote with the American top 1%.

    by Yellow Canary on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 10:46:18 AM PDT

  •  Here's Why Our Invasion Of Iraq Failed..... (17+ / 0-)

    Read this column by Joseph Palermo, an historian & professor for the true, unvarnished truth of our blunder in Iraq.  Professor Palermo absolutely nails it.....

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

    •  I followed your link, read the article, and want (8+ / 0-)

      to say "thanks."  Excellent article.  I add a hearty recommendation.  

      "The opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.”" -- Paul Dirac

      by Rikon Snow on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 11:05:04 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  That article should (5+ / 0-)

      be read by everyone. Many thanks for the link.

      Ceiling Cat rules....srsly.

      by side pocket on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 11:31:25 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  neo-imperialism (9+ / 0-)
      The US invasion also initiated the most radical and ill-informed experiment in forced privatization that any imperial power has ever attempted. In 2004, President George W. Bush sent L. Paul Bremer III to act as a kind of Viceroy in Iraq in the guise of the head of something called the "Coalition Provisional Authority." Bremer is a blueblood corporate guy who apparently didn't have a clue about the people over which he ruled.

      For a time Bremer's power was total and he didn't hesitate to use it. Soon he was issuing daily "orders" all designed in one way or another to turn Iraqi society into an Ayn Rand novel. For example, "Order Number 39" privatized Iraq's 200 state-owned enterprises; allowed for 100 percent foreign ownership of Iraqi businesses; and gave away unrestricted, tax-free remittances of all profits and other funds to foreign companies (i.e. American and British) working under 40-year ownership licenses.

      Bremer's "Order Number 1," with its ostensible aim of "de-Baathifying" the Iraqi state, destroyed just about every major governmental institution left standing in Iraq. He disbanded the Iraqi Army and police, cutting off the salaries and pensions of high-ranking officers and enlisted soldiers. With one imperial stroke of his pen, Bremer swelled the ranks of the resistance against the American occupation with capable fighters, field engineers, and other security technicians.

      And none of Bremer's "orders" were legal under international laws dating back to 1907 because an occupying power has no right to change the legal system of the country it is occupying.

      The car bombs and IEDs that became a permanent fixture of Iraqi life mirrored the exact skill set of the Sunni technocratic class that Bremer sent packing. It has been reported that former officers of the Baath Party are directing some of the Sunni organizations that fight alongside ISIL.

      Warning - some snark may be above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 "If we appear to seek the unattainable, then let it be known that we do so to avoid the unimaginable." (@eState4Column5)

      by annieli on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 11:42:40 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Ike sent advisers nearly a decade earlier (9+ / 0-)

    Vietnam was to have elections unifying the country giving the people the right to choose their own destiny.  Ike realized the people were going to choose communism and staged a coup in the South with a dictator who ended the elections and Diem began executing communists en masse.  That is what started the civil war in Vietnam that Kennedy escalated but we had a presence there ten years before Obama was born.

    Kennedy did not start the Vietnam War, Ike did.

    "Now, people ask me all the time how we got four surplus budgets in a row. What new ideas did we bring to Washington? I always give a one-word answer: Arithmetic. " Bill Clinton

    by Amayupta yo on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 10:48:04 AM PDT

  •  Thanks for emphasizing Iraqi casualties as well (25+ / 0-)

    and for even including Iraqi soldiers in the toll of this American war of aggression. They too could still be alive today, had the USA not attacked. Far too few politicians and reporters so much as even mention the Iraqi dead, injured, and dispossessed, perhaps for fear that people will start to think about who was responsible and whom we should hold to account.

    One small but revealing "tell" was when George W. Bush privately floated the idea of painting an American U-2 spy plane with white "UN" letters, goading the Iraqis into shooting at it, and then using that as the excuse to invade. What, was the USS Maddox not available?

    And then there was saying "9/11" and "Saddam Hussein" in the same sentence ad nauseam, and perhaps the most pernicious lie of all, "They hate us for our freedoms."

    Government and laws are the agreement we all make to secure everyone's freedom.

    by Simplify on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 10:48:42 AM PDT

  •  Business as usual (10+ / 0-)

    It is rare that I agree with any commentary as much as I agree with yours.  The Cheney administration had decided to invade Iraq before the supreme court put them in office.  

    My concerns are the same as yours.  Even if President Obama can limit his deployment to the numbers already in Iraq, there is no guarantee his successor would.

    The oil company has already raised prices.  That was and is the ultimate goal of any military involvement in Iraq.

  •  We need to shame the media (10+ / 0-)

    for their recurring role of being enablers of the neocon war profiteers that have all popped up again in the last week.

    Cheney was invited back to "This Week" today for about Round 4 in his new warmongering début.  Our media needs to be harassed and shamed relentlessly for their complicity.

    I suggest that we buy John McCain a "Battleship" game board and hire him a playmate during his waking hours or maybe Cheney can be that mate.  They could find contentment with their recurring war games and the rest of the world could feel safer and more secure.

    •  The RWMSM is incapableof shame they're sociopaths (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      oldhippie

      I voted Tuesday, May 6, 2014 because it is my right, my responsibility and because my parents moved from Alabama to Ohio to vote. Unfortunately, the republicons want to turn Ohio into Alabama.

      by a2nite on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 10:57:13 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  they couldn't have done it without the RW radio (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cocinero, OleHippieChick, Eric Nelson

    monopoly to sell the lies, attack the critics, and enable and intimidate media and politicians

    and the same stations still basically get a free speech free ride from the left, to sell the next one

    This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

    by certainot on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 10:56:10 AM PDT

  •  Spare me the fake naivete, please. (7+ / 0-)

    You know perfectly well why Democratic presidential aspirants voted for the AUMF.  It wasn't any of the bullshit reasons you cited here:

    too many elected Democrats and too many other Americans believed the president and vice president of the United States and their chosen subordinates to be honest and honorable. To have the best interests of Americans at heart.
    It wasn't this shit either:
    there were also Democrats who went along with the enterprise out of vengeance or a warped affection for America the empire-builder or for the bottom line of the military-industrial complex
    They voted for war and death and blood and mayhem out of purely selfish, cynical careerism.   Don't pretend you don't know it.
  •  Obama's greatest failure (11+ / 0-)

    I am a huge supporter and fan of Barack Obama's presidency and consider it to be the most transformative and significant presidency since Reagan (only this time in a good direction).

    That being said, there are two enormous mistakes that Obama made and both of them took place in 2009.

    The first was not setting up an independent commission to investigate bank fraud that led to the economic collapse.

    The second was not setting up an independent commission to investigate lies and war crimes in the lead up and prosecution of the Iraq War.

    America would have easily supported both, and an independent bulldog prosecutor (Patrick Fitzgerald anyone?) prosecuting the liars, con artists, and corrupt war mongers in both the banking and war industries was not only necessary but essential to rebuilding the public trust.

    That Obama did not do so because he believed (wrongly) that he could win republicans over to working with him on healthcare and other issues was a foreseeable and avoidable mistake.

    •  I agree (5+ / 0-)

      mostly because if he had done those two things, then what his legacy would have been was to ensure that future generations could live without the danger of another George W Bush coming along and playing War with the lives of our Armed Forces and the tax dollars which fund such actions.

      I don't agree with that closer, though. I was and still am certain that President Barack Obama had no idea of just how deep the racism in these United States still is in the US Congress, and that the opposition Party would take such a severe stance of #JustSayNo to every and anything he would support.

      I do believe it took him far too long to come to terms with that though, but it looks like he's learned. Have you seen his public addresses to the Republicans via the media this year? He's not buying their bullshit anymore, and he's not holding that hand out in friendship anymore, either.


      "I like paying taxes...with them, I buy Civilization"

      by Angie in WA State on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 12:44:19 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Responsibility to lie (6+ / 0-)
    Those 935 lies, by the way, did not include "indirect false statements" such as that Iraq had possession of "dangerous weapons."
    Peggy Noonan has claimed that the media have a responsibility to lie to the public. Seriously!

    If we abandon our allies and their issues, who will defend us and ours?

    by Bryce in Seattle on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 10:59:08 AM PDT

    •  Pegs or Our Lady of the Printed Tripe... (2+ / 0-)

      like a plurality of RW "journalists and commenters" have lied and distorted for so long that, ..."a responsibility to lie to the public." Is SOP with no memory of what went before. That is, that their responsibility was to inform not coerce with jingoisms and fear.

      “Overcome the angry by non-anger; overcome the wicked by goodness; overcome the miser by generosity; overcome the liar by truth.” :: Buddha's Wisdom-The Dhammapada ::

      by Sam Sara on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 11:06:07 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Iraq was a mistake because Hillary voted for it. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    on the cusp, Rashaverak

    Center-left pundits will stop calling Bush's war a mistake around November 2016.

  •  Ramrodded? They duped almost an entire Congress? (0+ / 0-)
    They ramrodded it past the objections of those in and out of Congress who challenged the fabricated claims of administration advisers who had been looking for an excuse to take out Saddam Hussein years before the U.S. Supreme Court plunked George W. Bush into the Oval Office.
    That statement, and the "they stole the election" thing again tells me that you need to stop living in the past.   Today is what's important.  We can't change the past.  What do we do, today, besides blame the "war criminals"? Even hanging them won't change the future.  

    Much madness is divinest sense, much sense divinest madness.

    by SpamNunn on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 10:59:52 AM PDT

    •  Forget the past? By going easy on almost... (25+ / 0-)

      ...all the criminals of the Iran-contra scandal, we paved the way for continued crimes. Tougher treatment and tough treatment against those who ordered others to torture and kill could in fact have changed the future by deterring repeat behavior.

      For the record, the majority of Democrats in the House opposed the Iraq resolution. So, yes, the administration ramrodded the war past challengers in and out of Congress.

      Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

      by Meteor Blades on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 11:11:05 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Old dusty musty truism... (3+ / 0-)

        Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it to be duped over and over by the same excuses, threats and fears...and are probably Republicans.

        Okay, my version...

        “Overcome the angry by non-anger; overcome the wicked by goodness; overcome the miser by generosity; overcome the liar by truth.” :: Buddha's Wisdom-The Dhammapada ::

        by Sam Sara on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 11:19:23 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  What about the Senate, MB. Remember these votes? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        kurt
        Sens. Lincoln (D-AR), Feinstein (D-CA), Dodd (D-CT), Lieberman (D-CT), Biden (D-DE), Carper (D-DE), Nelson (D-FL), Cleland (D-GA), Miller (D-GA), Bayh (D-IN), Harkin (D-IA), Breaux (D-LA), Mary Landrieu (D-LA), Kerry (D-MA), Carnahan (D-MO), Baucus (D-MT), Nelson (D-NE), Reid (D-NV), Torricelli (D-NJ), Clinton (D-NY), Schumer (D-NY), Edwards (D-NC), Dorgan (D-ND), Hollings (D-SC), Daschle (D-SD), Johnson (D-SD), Cantwell (D-WA), Rockefeller (D-WV), and Kohl (D-WI).

        Much madness is divinest sense, much sense divinest madness.

        by SpamNunn on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 11:34:21 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Tom Harkin has said, (4+ / 0-)
          "It was one of the worst votes I ever cast."
          Bush claimed he needed the AUMF as a bargaining chip to get Saddam Hussein to comply with the 1992 cease fire agreement and allow U.N. weapons inspectors in Iraq. Bush claimed (a lie) that he would only use force as a last resort. Harkin has said he took Bush at his word. Others may have made the same mistake.
          •  Then it wasn't (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            SpamNunn, Rashaverak, YucatanMan, ypochris

            "the best decision I could make at the time," or whatever twaddle HRC has used to describe her vote.

            Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

            by corvo on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 12:56:55 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Yes. I do... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          YucatanMan, kurt

          From this diary:

          Consequently, thousands of Americans are now dead because war criminals sent them abroad fraudulently in the name of liberation, security and prevention. The Iraqi people got none of those things.

          And because too few people who should have stopped these war criminals, who were in a position in the U.S. Senate to stop them, mustered the courage to stand in their way. They let them get away with their scheme. A few eagerly encouraged them.

          But, as wrong as those votes were, they were not the equivalent of rendition, torture and slaughter. Moreover, with a few exceptions, those living Senators subsequently said they shouldn't have voted the way they did. When Rice and Rumsfeld and Bush and Cheney and Feith, the actual prosecutors of that war say they were wrong, get back to me.

          Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

          by Meteor Blades on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 08:58:38 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  I'm pretty sure that hanging the war criminals (6+ / 0-)

      would change the future -- particularly since many of them continue to exercise considerable power to this day.

      To put the torture behind us is, inevitably, to put it in front of us.

      by UntimelyRippd on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 11:19:18 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Recall the old saying:'Forget the past, repeat ... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cocinero, Rashaverak, kurt

      Recall the old saying:'Forget the past, repeat the mistakes.'

    •  Wrong there. (5+ / 0-)

      As a point well-demonstrated throughout history, severe justice, even when delayed, does have a deterrent effect.  The Nuremburg trials and the ferocity with which the Israelis continue to hunt remaining death camp personnel to this day has seriously discouraged similar actions anywhere in Europe and any type of continuing backlash against the Jews, something that would have been highly likely to break out again by the 70's if it hadn't been so thoroughly quashed (given Europe's deep history of anti-Semitic pogroms and practices).  The juxtaposition of the word "genocide" with a spate of executions worked wonders to dampen that particular nasty human habit for a very long time.  Similarly, justice and punishment for violation of the "civilized world"'s Rules of War would dampen enthusiasm for such ventures even more than simple failure and ridicule has done.  Smart sociopaths like Cheney do NOT want to spend jail time or face execution.  It's just not their bag to actually suffer consequences for their actions.  Therefore, a demonstrated example -- even if we only hung Cheney ten days before he would otherwise die of a heart attack -- would make future Cheneys think much more carefully before initiating wars of conquest and opportunity.

    •  yeah, would really help not to get in any (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Rashaverak, YucatanMan, kurt

      of those nasty "war crime tribunals", right? Tell that a German. Never prosecute anyone for war crimes? I really don't get it. Why did we have the Nuremberg trials again? Just for fun, right? Let's just look into the future. That'll do it.

      Yack, disgusting.

      We know a hell of a lot, but we understand very little. Manfred Max-Neef

      by mimi on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 01:44:48 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  You write with the fury of Hunter on a rampage, (9+ / 0-)

    on a subject which demands that level of outrage. Thanks for a bracing look at this festering clusterfuck.

    The forgive and forget approach this administration endorsed, when it decided not to establish some commission to examine all the lies and crimes involved in USA's evil pillage in Iraq, has  knee-capped our international standing, and left a dark cloud in our national consciousness. OK, we'd been knee-capped; Obama was just the Black Knight, saying "It's only a scratch."

    I hope that the flurry of complaints, at so many Sunday shows and op-eds giving a platform for the architect's of our original disaster to opine again on the situation in Iraq, I hope that leads to some reckoning and resetting of history. But we needed to have this whole thing thrashed out to transparency and accountability back in 2009. And the world needed, more desperately, to have the whole matter brought out into the open back in 2002 and '03.

    How can an information economy with so many voices be so resistant to learning?

    "Every man has a right to utter what he thinks truth" Samuel Johnson

    by Brecht on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 11:01:44 AM PDT

    •  Learning is hard. Thinking takes effort. When s... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Brecht, Angie in WA State, 2020adam

      Learning is hard. Thinking takes effort. When simple daily living occupies our energies, other matters fall away. Also, too:few traditional media folks or 'public intellectuals' speak with MB's clarity, understanding, and passion.

    •  An information economy? Comcast, (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Rashaverak, ypochris, kurt

      News Corp and Time Warner have no interest in the information economy. They sell ads. The informational content broadcast on their channels is unimportant. A placeholder between GE and Boeing commercials.

      Learning would require so much thought and investment, they wouldn't even know where to begin. Better, in fact, not to change anything, since Boeing doesn't need a whole bunch of anti-war blah blahing between its commercials.

      "The Democratic Party is not our friend: it is the only party we can negotiate with."

      by 2020adam on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 01:22:10 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Ray McGovern (0+ / 0-)

    Please, please, please get Ray McGovern on every news channel and ask him about the lies of Cheney/Bush to lead us into Iraq.

  •  My Daddy used to say (7+ / 0-)

    Mistakes are something that one does and is sorry for.
    He said to a former daughter in law... what you are doing is habit... Same way I feel about the MIC... No mistake..habit.

    Just how much Koch do Right Wingers want in their life? . United Veterans of America

    by Vetwife on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 11:14:45 AM PDT

  •  The American people are being given a clear exa... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cocinero, Rashaverak, kurt

    The American people are being given a clear example of what pure psychopathy looks like, as Cheney et al crawl out from under their rocks.

    •  I have always thought, (0+ / 0-)

      That the real mistake the Democratic Party made, was running against Bush's second term. By then it was clear to anybody who was't brain dead, that both wars were lost, the economy was trashed, the US was a Police State and Governance was destroyed.

      They should have run just enough candidates in safe Blue States for a minority in both houses, and not run Presidential Candidates, and run on the platform of "the Republicans made the mess, they can clean it up, all we want is for our voice to be heard",

      And keep that as the policy and platform until either the Republicans clean up the mess, (like that would ever happen),

      Or Come de Revolution.

      One quibble with the Diary,

      The Iraqi Government was okay with some levels of US Forces remaining in Iraq, but not under the proposed SOFA. quite reasonably, The Iraqi Government wanted controls on the Number and Makeup of the Forces, controls on their baseing, deployment and use, and no blanket immunity for rapes , murders, looting and robbery.

      Needless to say, those conditions were completely unacceptable to the Pentagon.

  •  The mistake was in how they got in power (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Bryce in Seattle, annieli, TomP, kurt

    in the first place.

    They were going to do this, 9/11 or no 9/11.

    "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." --M. L. King "You can't fix stupid" --Ron White -6.00, -5.18

    by zenbassoon on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 11:18:53 AM PDT

    •  That wasnt a mistake either; we still stuck (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      annieli, TomP

      with evil zombie Nixon. He made all of this possible & that's thanks to Eisenhower.

      I voted Tuesday, May 6, 2014 because it is my right, my responsibility and because my parents moved from Alabama to Ohio to vote. Unfortunately, the republicons want to turn Ohio into Alabama.

      by a2nite on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 11:38:41 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  That's Right (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dem Beans, Rashaverak, kurt

    It was a "mistake" for Japan to attack Pearl Harbor.

    This aggression will not stand, man.

    by kaleidescope on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 11:19:33 AM PDT

  •  Not a mistake (7+ / 0-)
    An imperial, morally corrupt war.
  •  I said at the time it was a big mistake (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Satya1

    I'll go on saying it was a big mistake .
    I knew at the time what they were doing was intentional
    and I said it was a big mistake .
    They did the wrong things for the wrong reasons ,
    it wasn't an accidental mistake .

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/...

    mis·take
    verb mə-ˈstāk\

    : to understand (something or someone) incorrectly

    : to make a wrong judgment about (something)

    : to identify (someone or something) incorrectly

    They understood incorrectly , they made a wrong judgment and identified incorrectly . I don't see that they did anything that was not a mistake . Even if they achieved some goal of theirs , even that achievement is a mistake .

    "please love deeply...openly and genuinely." A. M. H.

    by indycam on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 11:20:43 AM PDT

    •  and if they get into power again (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kurt

      I'm sure they would gladly do more of these mistakes .

      "please love deeply...openly and genuinely." A. M. H.

      by indycam on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 11:35:13 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Not a mistake at all. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Lady Libertine, tardis10, kurt

      Not only did they reap huge profits from it, but they learned they could do so with absolute impunity.

      Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

      by corvo on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 11:56:09 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  So if I kill someone (0+ / 0-)

        and take their money and get away with it ,
        its not a mistake ?
        But it would be a mistake if I did those things and got caught ?

        "please love deeply...openly and genuinely." A. M. H.

        by indycam on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 12:18:41 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Please learn the meanings of words. (0+ / 0-)

          It may be morally offensive, but if you suffer no bad consequences, it's certainly no mistake.  

          Our Betters did what they could get away with.  Their war may be our mistake, but as long as they aren't punished for it, it's hardly theirs.  They were in fact riotously successful.

          Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

          by corvo on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 12:25:54 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  In your opinion its not a mistake to kill . (0+ / 0-)

            In your opinion being morally offensive isn't a mistake .

            In your opinion

            They were in fact riotously successful.
            ...........................
            http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/...
            mistake
            Syllabification: mis·take
            Pronunciation: /məˈstāk

            /
            noun

                1An action or judgment that is misguided or wrong:

            An action that is wrong .
            An action , murder , that is wrong .
            An action , invasion and war , that is wrong .

            "please love deeply...openly and genuinely." A. M. H.

            by indycam on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 12:37:57 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Please read. (0+ / 0-)

              "misguided or wrong."

              It was wrong.  It was hardly misguided, because they went in with the intention of making a killing off it, and succeeded.  And remain unpunished for it to this day.

              Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

              by corvo on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 12:44:54 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  That word between is "or" not and . (0+ / 0-)
                It was hardly misguided
                Attacking , invading , killing etc etc etc wasn't misguided ? Its worthless to have a conversation with someone who thinks murder isn't a mistake , who thinks the whole Iraq blunder was a "riotously successful" and not misguided .

                "please love deeply...openly and genuinely." A. M. H.

                by indycam on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 12:53:44 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Exactly. (0+ / 0-)

                  Now go learn the meaning of "or."  You're arguing "and."  

                  And no, it wasn't "misguided" FROM THEIR PERSPECTIVE.  It was precisely what they wanted to do, and it accomplished what they wanted.  Again, riotously successful FROM THEIR PERSPECTIVE; disastrous and repellent for most of the rest of us, and for our national honor, to say nothing of all the dead Iraqis.

                  I'm going to be charitable and assume you don't know the difference between their supposedly being misguided -- they weren't -- and their act of misguiding the rest of us -- which they succeeded in doing, and which Our Leaders continue to refuse to punish.

                  But then, given your rather frantic insults, I doubt you're interested.

                  Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

                  by corvo on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 01:03:23 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

        •  The challenge IMO (0+ / 0-)

          is that "mistake" is a common, broadly used word in multiple contexts.  It can be used with regard to intention, with execution of an action or with moral impact.

          I get MBs idea, but I see your point too.

          I'm not liberal. I'm actually just anti-evil, OK? - Elon James White

          by Satya1 on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 12:30:14 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  but if you're looking for mistakes, (0+ / 0-)

          how about the current Administration's "look forward, not backward" policy regarding Bush-era war crimes?

          Oh yeah, that's not the current Administrations' mistake either, because we give it a free pass for it.

          Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

          by corvo on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 12:33:45 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Agreed. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      indycam

      The Iraq invasion was a mistake.  But at the same time it was also so much more and we need to keep shifting the narrative to that.  It was also an intentional criminal act on a horrifying number of levels and measured in the 500,000 dead Iraqis and other costs.

      I'm not liberal. I'm actually just anti-evil, OK? - Elon James White

      by Satya1 on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 12:16:30 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  They lied. They invented evidence. They... (5+ / 0-)

      ...withheld counter-evidence. They didn't do that mistakenly. They did it on purpose with the full knowledge of what they were doing.

      Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

      by Meteor Blades on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 06:41:53 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  mistake (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kurt

      They did not act due to insufficient knowledge or carelessness. Their actions were intentional, calculated with lies and concealment.

      Full Definition of MISTAKE (webster)
      1
      :  a wrong judgment :  MISUNDERSTANDING
      2
      :  a wrong action or statement proceeding from faulty judgment, inadequate knowledge, or inattention
        See mistake defined for English-language learners »
      1.
      an error in action, calculation, opinion, or judgment caused by poor reasoning, carelessness, insufficient knowledge, etc.
      2.
      a misunderstanding or misconception.
      verb (used with object), mis·took, mis·tak·en, mis·tak·ing.
      3.
      to regard or identify wrongly as something or someone else: I mistook him for the mayor.
      4.
      to understand, interpret, or evaluate wrongly;misunderstand; misinterpret.
      verb (used without object), mis·took, mis·tak·en, mis·tak·ing.
      5.
      to be in error.

      New website: NDN Silver by Wings "Beauty, magic, and the mysteries of the earth and sky connect" in his jewelry art. Please visit his silverwork galleries, share with friends. Gifts from the heart.

      by Patriot Daily News Clearinghouse on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 07:31:56 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  And Remembering That Period In Time (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kurt

    Is useful when criticizing Reid, Kerry, Clinton and others who voted for the war. When the idiots who lied us into it were The President of the United States, his vile Vice President, The Secretary of State, The Secretary of Defense and every other scum high up in the Bush Clusterfuck, you can hardly say "well they should have known better" to the Democrats who were lied to, just like the rest of us.

  •  Another example (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    unfangus, TomP, tardis10, kurt

    Calling the Iraq war a "mistake" is just another example of the incredible cognitive disconnect that the D.C. bubble represents, in which reality is malleable and largely depends on which interest is being serviced. Sorta like when the talking heads get together every day and pretend that the right wing is RATIONAL when clearly, axiomatically, by all definitions it is not. No, the Republicans in the House don't have to pass immigration reform because it's the smart thing to do. No, the Republicans in the House don't have to hold a vote for rational background checks for gun buyers because it's "the right thing to do" and the vast majority of citizens support it. I vote we stop paying attention to anybody in the media who keeps this pretense up. The right wing ideologes that dominates the Republican party Are. Not. Rational. Full stop.

    "Given the choice between a Republican and someone who acts like a Republican, people will vote for a real Republican every time." Harry Truman

    by MargaretPOA on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 11:21:49 AM PDT

  •  We never learn the lesson of Vietnam (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    a2nite, on the cusp, unfangus, corvo, kurt

    When you prop up and financially support repressive, corrupt governments a failed state is the result.  You can throw all the troops you want at it but in the end, the house of cards will collapse.

    The Iraqi army fled before the rebels - an army we've trained and equipped out of our tax dollars - because they didn't want to die for the Maliki government.  I doubt that many Afghan soldiers want to die for the Karzai government, either.  Yet we continue to throw dollars at these two goons.

    I agree that the Iraq war wasn't a 'mistake'.  It was a carefully planned invasion that they'd plotted for a decade before Bush was awarded the presidency.  It should be more properly called a war crime.

    If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich." - John F. Kennedy

    by Dem Beans on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 11:22:27 AM PDT

    •  A war crime that can be repeated ad infinitum (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      BigAlinWashSt, Dem Beans, turn blue, kurt

      for profit.  That's what they learned.

      Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

      by corvo on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 11:57:16 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  No one wants to talk about the "agenda". Obama (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        corvo

        is following the agenda of world domination, U.S. Imperialist supremacy and hegemony.  The Iraq war was and is part of it, but it's all one giant crime.  People on the left like to focus on Iraq because it was Bush's war.  They won't even acknowledge Obama's wars.  

        "Fragmented and confused, we have no plan to combat any of this, but are looking to be saved by the very architects of our ruination."

        by BigAlinWashSt on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 12:02:57 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  unless, appallingly, to praise them n/t (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          BigAlinWashSt

          Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

          by corvo on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 12:04:51 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  I was somewhat gratified (0+ / 0-)

    To see the very private paintings of GW Bush when they were publicized.  They show that despite not having been tried and executed for war crimes, the man has retreated into a personal experience of isolation, depression, and pathological loneliness.  It's not genuine remorse, but when there's no justice in society, it's something.  And then of course his private hell got splashed across the news around the world for ridicule, which was additional punishment.  We might not have forced him to justice, but he does live with the irrefutable knowledge of failure and near-universal contempt.

    Cheney, OTOH, needs to be hanged, drawn and quartered.  Nothing less will penetrate his fundamental self-regard.

    •  Um, what? He held an unveiling at his... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      YucatanMan

      museum and invited his daughter to put him on national TV. Still same old George. Didn't want to be President then; doesn't wish he was now, either.

      Dude has no clear idea what he did to Iraq. Probably doesn't have a basic understanding of what's happening there today or the extent to which he caused it.

      "The Democratic Party is not our friend: it is the only party we can negotiate with."

      by 2020adam on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 01:27:02 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Everybody's antiwar again, cool. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    corvo, tardis10

    Iraq appears to be the key.  Or something.
    It couldn't be Bush, Cheney and those people that brings it out could it?

    "Fragmented and confused, we have no plan to combat any of this, but are looking to be saved by the very architects of our ruination."

    by BigAlinWashSt on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 11:27:08 AM PDT

  •  No, not a mistake. Mass murder (11+ / 0-)

    done with impunity. War crimes with the consequences still unfolding.
    I wish we could hold those responsible to full account.

    Support Small Business: Shop Kos Katalogue If you'd like to join the Motor City Kossacks, send me a Kosmail.

    by peregrine kate on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 11:27:15 AM PDT

    •  "if wishes were horses (6+ / 0-)

      we'd all ride like kings."

      The perps not only got off scott free, they continue to profit, and show up on our TV's or bookstores or university commencement speeches as if whatever they have to say about anything carries actual merit. They are indeed looking forward to a long life of liberty without so much as a whisper by anyone who could've/should've done so, of having to ever be held to account for their war crimes, not full, not partial, not even a miniscule accounting. The consequences of that failure are dire indeed. Shame.

      If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution. ~ Emma Goldman

      by Lady Libertine on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 11:45:13 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Reflexive reactions are never informative no... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    KayCeSF, TomP

    ...matter which "side". I don't see a problem in believing that the invasion of Iraq was wrong on many different levels and that sending advisers to the country now is analogous to Vietnam.

    Many of the same people people upset with adding these non combative personnel are the same folks that said removing the chemical weapons stockpile out from Syria was also analogous to Vietnam, was "mission creep",and certain to "escalate" into engagement into that war. Yet here we are and none of that has proven true.

    Some situations we are going to have to wait to see how things turn out before we go pronouncing judgement on the initial decision that was made. I'd like to see zero U.S.military personnel in the MENA region and elsewhere, but that doesn't mean every action that is counter to my desire is a harbinger of doom.

    The politicians may be bought, and the system corrupt, but it is our duty to fix these things.

    by sebastianguy99 on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 11:31:19 AM PDT

  •  Agreed. Agreed. Agreed. (5+ / 0-)

    The Bush administration was wrong about Iraq.

    To say that the Bush people got Iraq wrong is to say that the claims they made were not only incorrect, they were INTENTIONALLY incorrect.

    They LIED, as opposed to making a well intentioned and good faith mistake.

    In any fair system, such intentional lies would lead to impeachment or criminal charges.  The end result would be removal from office or jail time.

    Since they weren't removed from office, and since they aren't going to jail, it would be great if they could just disappear from public view.

    Instead, the same people who intentionally created the Iraq debacle are still looked to for expert opinion and commentary.

    Shame on anyone who still gives credence to the likes of Richard Cheney, Judith Miller, Paul Wolfowitz, or Donald Rumsfeld.

    And I write this as someone who, unlike the vast majority of conservative commentators and "liberal media" armchair generals, spent 2004 and 2005 in Iraq.

  •  The most damning decision (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    a2nite, TomP, Eric Nelson, YucatanMan, kurt

    To me the most damning example of Bush Inc foreknowledge that there were no WMD occurred in the immediate aftermath of the invasion.

    All of the talk of WMD, which they professed certainty of, was discounted, even before a thorough search. In fact the search was put off a couple months.

    If you truly believed there were WMD, I believe the first thing you would do would be secure the exits from Iraq and devote all the resources necessary to finding them. Good god, the arms caches sat unsecured and were looted for weeks. No clamor from the neocons pointing out the urgency to secure potential WMD. It's obvious it was only Fox that kept the WMD angle alive. The administration knew full well there wasn't anything to secure and dispose of.

  •  A truly outstanding column (6+ / 0-)

    Thank you for telling the truth again and again.

  •  This and more. (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    KayCeSF, TomP, tardis10, Eric Nelson, kurt

    Meteor Blades, you are absolutely correct. This must never rhetorically slide into the idiom of a 'mistake'.
    At this particular time, as well, there really, really needs to be a loud and long public outcry against the lazy, complicit media showcasing these decrepit old warmongers. As though their opinions are anything but self-serving bullshit.

  •  Well said, MB. It was an illegal, (8+ / 0-)

    immoral, and strategically unnecessary war based on deliberate lies to the American people.  How it is perceived matters because there always is a next time.

    Join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news and views written from a black pov—everyone is welcome.

    by TomP on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 11:37:08 AM PDT

  •  I think you can take it to the bank (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TomP, YucatanMan, HCKAD, kurt

    Lt. Vincent and Spc. Hickman are in fact not the last American soldiers to die in combat operations in Iraq.
    The first deployment of 275 was probably to harden security at the embassy and provide some protection for US dependents should the shit hit the fan.This second group of 300 are almost certainly special forces with an intel mission that ultimately will be painting targets for smart bombs.If we're drawn into that level of support even for humanitarian reasons,we'll be seen to be taking sides in a Sunni/Shia sectarian power struggle and the blowback will be further disaster.
    The corporate MSM is 'all in' on the neo-con misinformation and propaganda campaign again,just as they were 2002-2004.They pushed the jingoist propaganda then,can't admit how tragically wrong that was,and have to double down on that losing bet now.Journalistic ethics for the MSM is a thing of the past and only exists in alternative media like this site and this essay.As evidence,Cheney was on 'This Week' this morning fielding softball questions and blowing the neo-con war bugle,while in a universe of logic and justice he would at the very least be a disgraced pariah and recognized universally (the US too!) as  the war criminal he inarguably is.
    Of all the statements made by officials of the Bush administration,the one that rings truest today is Colin Powell's statement to the effect;if you break it,you own it.It is obvious to all that the reckless adventurism unleashed by Bushes wars of choice have broken the volatile Middle East to shards that no one has a clue how to put back together.
    For Cheney and the band to keep playing the tune that we should somehow have 'stayed the course' and occupied much of the Middle East indefinitely no matter the cost in lives and treasure is incomprehensible ignorance and hubris.For corporate media to continue to sell that tripe as a reasonable point of view,is worse,and illustrates how far they have fallen as honest purveyors of the information a democratic/republic nation requires to govern itself.They are more of an enemy than ISIS ever will be.

    'The tyranny of the ignoramuses is absolute and inescapable' A..Einstein

    by unfangus on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 11:38:14 AM PDT

  •  Amen. As an entirely tangential point (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TomP, Eric Nelson, kurt

    Truman sent military personnel to Vietnam and was paying most of French military expenditures there in the 40's in the immediate wake of WWII.  This was the case in a number of locales in that time frame.  Vietnam is one of several that escalated and grew, and the one that made the biggest impact on the American public.

    The generation running the country is largely not the one that learned the lesson that led to the Powell doctrine.  It seems that this most recent half-generation of war, absent a draft, is not enough to relearn the lesson for many.

    Some people never learn of course, and those idiots are why we are where we are: Cheney, for instance.  I still remember that asshole giving a radio interview just after 'Desert Storm' where he made clear his preference for continuing that war (while mouthing support for GHWB's policy decision), even as wiser men ended it and created the metastable Iraq that endured until we broke it over a decade later and further destabilized the entire region.

    As Paul O'Neill made clear: invading Iraq was a policy objective of the 2000 Bush administration well before 9-11.  As I heard then from a GOP donor who disagreed, even as Bush claimed near-isolationist ground in the campaign, behind closed doors the invasion was nearly a foregone conclusion, the only real question was what pretext would be seized or created.

    Iron sharpens Iron. Normal is a dryer setting. STOP illegal immigration NOW! -- Make it LEGAL. If Corporations are People--Let's draft them.

    by benamery21 on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 11:43:41 AM PDT

  •  It was murder on the part of all, except the (0+ / 0-)

    traitors among us.  Put me in the traitorous category.  I bitched like hell about the prospect of us going into Iraq, but the talk show hosts called me leftist names (or implied me as a leftie).  There isn't a prison, or a prison sentence big enough for all that played ball.  Additionally, when those on the right talk about the National Debt, again please refer them to these criminals

    By the authority vested in me by Kaiser Wilhelm II, I pronounce you man and wife. Proceed with the execution...and the kiddie pool needs to stay open 24/7!

    by HarryParatestis on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 11:46:08 AM PDT

  •  Lies and the lying liars who (still) tell them (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Angie in WA State, corvo

    Lies and the lying liars who (still) tell them

  •  This may be one of your most important posts (9+ / 0-)

    you've ever written, MB. Too many have gone along with a re-writing of history that attempts to paper over the complicity of many in the media and the Democratic Party of the war crimes of the Bush-Cheney administration.

    The popular distortion is that "the intelligence showed that Saddam Hussein had WMD" and that "everyone" was "misinformed" and that "any and every intelligent person would have arrived at the same information available then would have arrived at the same conclusion."  

    This is a complete fabrication and anyone who repeats it is further complicit in this lie. The fact that this lie is still the dominant story indicates that those of us who strongly asserted that is was not and sufficient response to try to sweep all of this under the rug in the spirit of national healing were correct.

    By doing so we've perpetrated the lie and allowed the neocons to remain embedded in the military and intelligence  communities where they may even remain the dominant paradigm greatly imperiling our national and global security.

    MB this essay you've just written has led me to an important life conclusion that I've been mulling over for almost a decade.

    You have convinced me that we must reopen and "retry" this case so that the truth is well known to even one as it was obvious to anyone paying attention at the time.

    All this occurred because the likes of Dick Cheney and his pals brewed truths, half-truths, quarter-truths, outright fabrications, disinformation, misinformation, omissions, inventions, deceptions, deflections, revisions, excisions and other serpentine resourcefulness into a propaganda barrage specifically designed to persuade enough people not to stand in the way of their squalid project.

    Consequently, thousands of Americans are now dead because war criminals sent them abroad fraudulently in the name of liberation, security and prevention. The Iraqi people got none of those things.

    And because too few people who should have stopped these war criminals, who were in a position in the U.S. Senate to stop them, mustered the courage to stand in their way. They let them get away with their scheme. A few eagerly encouraged them.

    Uncounted thousands of Iraqis are dead because of slime who waved the bloody shirt of 9/11 in one hand, Old Glory in the other, and simultaneously managed to shred our Constitution and decades of international law. People who, if this were a just world, would long ago have appeared in shackles to be tried for war crimes.

    Yes, you are right, and we will not be able to properly move forward until we fully take responsibility for this as a nation.

    We have an number of options on how we do this, and I do not yet have an opinion on which is best. Options range from Truth and Reconciliation Committees such as were used in South Africa after the passing of Apartheid all the way to formal War Crimes trial in the Hague as the Spanish tried to initiate and we stopped.

    Perhaps, it would be more poignant, and redemptive,  if we brought the charges against ourselves?

    One way or another, this national delusional fantasy, no lets be honest with ourselves - this national psychosis - the false story that were were a nation of good-will, with leaders of good will, who went to war for valid reason, but only were mis-informed because of bad intelligence, must be exercised - lanced, like an infected boil before the infection spreads.

    Otherwise, we will guilty of the same crimes as the Catholic Church who rotated pedophile priests who molested more children.

    The same military planners, intelligence officers, political leaders, media players, corporations, international network, and apparatus of the military industrial complex that led us into this criminal war, is trying to do it again, and will do so forever unless they are put in jail and the whole nation learns such a painful lesson we flinch every time we start to do it again.

    And we will. "It" includes self-deception of the exact same sort that we see with "climate change denial," science-denial. teaching our children, that dinosaurs roamed the earth, and got on Noahs arch 6,000 years ago, and that, tar sand waste is a renewable energy.

    The willingness of our nation and media to happily go along with demogoguery like sheep is not limited to accepting falsehoods to go to war.

    The archives of Daily Kos will show a continuous almost daily record from well before the summer before the war that the Bush administration planned the invasion like a marketing campaign and that their fabrication of the evidence was obvious and apparent to many throughout the world and was discussed here on nearly a daily basis, but numerous authors including you, and myself.

    IAEA Director El Baredai received the Nobel Prize for announcing to the world in March two week before the invasion that there was no evidence of WMD in Iraq.

    This was after 8 months of critics like Joe Wilson exposing the lies of the aluminum tubings, the yellow cake allegations,
    and hundreds of articles that winter exposing Dick Cheneys phone second intelligence operation set up withing the CIA.

    And stories about Colin Powell ripping out pages from the 1,400 pages of purported evidence he was given by Cheney to present to the UN Security Council.

    This was apparent to dozens of us hear, to Barack Obama, and hundreds of others throughout the media, and in Congress who accused the Bush-Cheney administration of war crimes, and violations of the Geneva Conventions, and demanded impeachment all through those dark years.

    Humor Alert! No statement from this UID is intended to be true, including this one. Intended for recreational purposes only. Unauthorized interpretations may lead to unexpected results. This waiver void where prohibited. Artistic License - 420420

    by HoundDog on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 11:52:58 AM PDT

  •  eh, depends on the person (0+ / 0-)

    I don't doubt some people were licking their lips for the war to get their hands on Iraqi government-held resources, but I think some people made a real mistake rather than having intentional deceitful motives. I don't for a moment think that Bush, Cheney, or Powell intentionally lied -- that they were mislead by faulty intelligence or should have done more due diligence on the intelligence is I think a settled matter.  The question of lying is quite different from the question of prudence in the decision-making.  Even if the intelligence was accurate, there is the question of whether Iraq was worth invading or whether it was just to invade -- to this I answer a definitive "no."  Others answered "yes."  As much as I opposed the war and oppose U.S. involvement in the current mess, I think it was generally a mistake on the part of much of the Administration and Congress rather than a deceit.

    •  Hmmm.. (0+ / 0-)
      I don't for a moment think that Bush, Cheney, or Powell intentionally lied
      I disagree. They voiced information that suited their goal of going to war and ignored information that would have prevented it. A person may say Saddam was a "bad guy". That would be true. To say he had weapons of mass destruction in order to justify a pre drawn decision to invade Iraq is telling a lie and a double lie given that U.N. inspectors had concluded that Saddam did not have such weapons.

      one must take a position that is neither safe, nor politic, nor popular, but he must do it because Conscience tells him it is right. MLK

      by Klick2con10ue on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 03:10:15 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The evidence of their intentional lying... (0+ / 0-)

      ...is thick, not one of two instances. It sure as hell wasn't intelligence that got it wrong on the "yellowcake."  

      Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

      by Meteor Blades on Wed Jun 25, 2014 at 01:01:34 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Must read: Frank Rich's Iraq retrospective (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    corvo, Eric Nelson, YucatanMan

    including the culpability of many of the "liberal hawks" who supported the invasion.

    Here

    What is valued is practiced. What is not valued is not practiced. -- Plato

    by RobLewis on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 11:57:19 AM PDT

  •  sooooo . . . (3+ / 0-)

    Hillary Clinton for President, right?  Seeing as the Iraq War turned her into such a peacenik, dontcha know.

    Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

    by corvo on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 11:58:20 AM PDT

  •  One of the best pieces I have read on the matter, (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    northerntier, Eric Nelson, kurt

    MB. Geez you are a good writer!

    Thanks for writing this. It badly needed to be written.

    Murder is not, as you point out, a mistake.

    The only hawk I like is the kind that has feathers. My birding blogs: http://thisskysings.wordpress.com/ and canyonbirds.net

    by cany on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 12:00:56 PM PDT

  •  The reason we went to war was over oil. And that (0+ / 0-)

    is the reason Obama is sending in advisers.  In hope of that will be enough to maintain control of the oil and that Iraq won't go off the deep end. Oil is to important to the the USA to let it slip out of our hands.  

    "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubt." Bertrand Russell I'm very certain that is true. 10−122

    by thestructureguy on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 12:02:06 PM PDT

  •  Not looking far enough forward (5+ / 0-)

    Imposing some sort of accountability for the criminals who lied us into the war with Iraq was not at all a matter of revenge.  If we're going to move forward in the right direction, we have to establish a common understanding of where we've been.

    For one thing, the failure to establish that our invasion of Iraq wasn't just a mistake meant that we were never given a chance to explore all the consequences of the lies told to advance this crime that was not an innocent mistake.  The costs of the war were systematically and purposefully underestimated in order to get enough support for it.  One of these gross underestimates resulted in the VA, just to take one example, being systematically underfunded for the massive increase in workload the war would create for it.  That underfunding could not be acknowledged and corrected before it created a train wreck because we were so committed to looking forward off into some fantasy land, rather than backward at the lies upon which that underfunding was based, that we couldn't see the reality of where those lies were sending the VA.  Not only have hundreds of thousands of veterans thereby been denied the care they deserve, we managed to destroy the public career of Eric Shinseki, about the only public official in the whole 2003 disaster who managed to conduct himself with honor and integrity.

    But the central problem that we created by refusing to confront the reality that Iraq was a crime and not a mistake, was that the lie we failed to refute when we let the liars off scot-free was left alive to work its poisonous influence indefinitely into the future.  Bush and Cheney were out of office, so no need to take any further action against them, we were told.  They were now powerless, we were told, so why kick a dead horse?  But the lies they told to get us to war have remained in power because we decided to take a pass on convicting the liars.  The idea that we can't afford to treat the slightest foreign policy reverse, or the existence of any powerless movement out there that doesn't particularly like the US, as anything but an immediate existential threat, was allowed to remain in place as a given.

    So now Cheney et al are back trying to terrorize the electorate with the same lies.  And why not?  Why shouldn't they be allowed a forum to spew their arguments?  Oh, okay, so they applied the principles wrongly last time.  They made a mistake.  Saddam wasn't quite the next Hitler.  He didn't actually have weapons of mass destruction. Anyone out there never made a mistake?  Of course the fact of making a mistake shouldn't deny them a voice in the debate now.  Churchill made all sorts of mistakes, got thrown out of several governments.  Didn't mean he wasn't right about Hitler.

    So of course the criminals who lied us into invading Iraq are back posing as Churchills.  What was to keep them from that?  Self-restraint?  Their consciences?    

    The states must be abolished.

    by gtomkins on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 12:06:38 PM PDT

  •  In my opinion, the invasion was criminal (5+ / 0-)

    even if there were chemical or biological weapons in Iraq. I kind of assumed they had those because we'd sold them or their components to Saddam back when he was our guy.

    I'll tell you right out, I am a man who likes talking to a man who likes to talk. - Kasper Gutman

    by rasbobbo on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 12:08:56 PM PDT

  •  sadly (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Angie in WA State

    I was one of those that believe the propaganda in 2002/03 !

    when I watched on TV the American troops watch the Iraqi's loot the buildings with fire arms & other items of war in them, I knew the worst was yet to come. How bad it got & still is, is something out of a horror movie !

    Sure hope the President can deal with this .

  •  A lot of people believed them (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Angie in WA State

    at least in the US.  I was living overseas, and had frustrating conversations with people who were totally convinced about the WMDs

    www.tapestryofbronze.com

    by chloris creator on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 12:27:15 PM PDT

  •  and stop pretending senators who voted for it (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    corvo

    are worthy of the 2016 Democratic Presidential Candidate nomination.

    elipsii: helping the masses express aposiopesis for...

    by bnasley on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 12:28:02 PM PDT

  •  I suggest that people listen to this while (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Eric Nelson, kurt

    reading the diary:

    I, like Meteor Blades, was appalled when I first heard that the President was sending "Military Advisers" back into Iraq.

    I knew invading Iraq was a mistake back when the Media and most of my fellow Americans were all gung-ho to do so.

    It's in large part how and why I became a Kossack, because HERE was where I was hearing other people with the same views as I had on that fucked up idea (invading a nation which neither posed a threat to the US or had actually attacked the US).

    I also agree that our much ballyhooed Free Press is a fucking waste when it comes to INFORMING the electorate. Those bastards were cheerleaders for Bush et al in the run-up to the March 2003 invasion of Iraq, and they had had TWO YEARS to investigate and find out the truth and tell us all about it.

    Woulda, coulda, shoulda.

    But to allow the same FOOLS who were on TV endlessly talking about Mushroom Clouds and missile launches at the US back then to go on TV NOW and give advice about how to proceed? That way lies madness.

    To simply let this shit fly again, and not challenge it?

    HELL NO.

    #NotOneMore
    It's not just for GunFAIL, I'm co-opting it for WARS of Aggression, too.


    "I like paying taxes...with them, I buy Civilization"

    by Angie in WA State on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 12:29:43 PM PDT

    •  the President was sending "Military Advisers" back (0+ / 0-)

      Can you say "Bengazi?". The President, in the current context, is immunizing himself for not "protecting" the green zone. even though Bengazi was not his problem.  But whatever happens, there will be calls that he didn't send enough, or sent too many. Or something

      It's largely Army SF that's going in, I think. My son is SF Green Beret Medic 1st Group (base Lewis-McChord, Tacoma) and in Afganistan presently. To tell the truth, I'm glad he's not available for deployment to Iraq in the present circumstances....

      Without geometry, life is pointless. And blues harmonica players suck.

      by blindcynic on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 02:47:41 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The Forever War (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Angie in WA State, corvo, Eric Nelson

    A book by Dexter Filkins explained it all to me.The Forever War

    Basically , it was no mistake. It was all a lie, just like Viet Nam & as likely to end up as badly. Now it looks worse because Cheney & his minions have never stopped lying. & he never will. He sees another chance at Iran so he's back.

    He is pure evil.

    Blessed are the hearts that can bend; for they can never be broken Albert Camus

    by vcmvo2 on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 12:42:59 PM PDT

  •  And to this day we see major league baseball dr... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    YucatanMan

    And to this day we see major league baseball dressing up as pretend soldiers in fake camo uniforms to try the tired old lie of 'honoring' military members when in fact it's a thinly veiled military recruitment ploy. And we're recruiting new soldiers exactly why? It's no stretch to figure out the next 'plan of action'...

  •  Deep kudos for this article. Best thing (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    YucatanMan, kurt

    ever to be said and written here on dailykos since a very long, long time. I wished this would be published in the NYT and WP and any other main stream newspaper in the US.

    Unfortunately, it's clear that this mischaracterization will continue to be the way the Iraq war is described by much of the traditional media. A media that failed to reveal the motives behind the propaganda assault the Bush administration (and its allies across the truncated American political spectrum) promoted to get the war going. Two and three decades from now, the one thing our grandchildren and great-grandchildren will likely be reading about the invasion of Iraq will be that it was a terrible mistake.
    The media not only failed to reveal the motives, they enhanced the propaganda of the Bush administration, they magnified it. I will never forget those years until 2005, when Keith Olberman was the first to break that propaganda under a bell-curved cheese cover that seemed to suffocate most of the US critical thinking. It is so discerning to see how easily similar expressions to justify similar political view points by some of our democratic politicians today are used as well. Your article is very timely and a great relief to read. As long as voices like yours can be heard, not all is lost.

    We know a hell of a lot, but we understand very little. Manfred Max-Neef

    by mimi on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 02:16:48 PM PDT

  •  Does Calculated Deception that remains the (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SamanthaCarter, Meteor Blades, kurt

    ..the agenda of those guilty of war crimes call for remedial action today?

    If not to pay for crimes, then as a deterrent to future acts of neo-con aggression and as a very real national security interest?

    My opinion: YES
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Spot on analysis 4 years ago and today

      - imo

    They created a cabal of renegades specifically to carry out the Project for a New American Century's plans for Middle East hegemony.
    [...]

    It was a ploy to suggest falsely that the President and the ideological crocodiles in the White House gave two snaps about cooperating with the international community other than as a means to camouflage their unalterable determination to stomp Iraq, plundering it under the guise of righteous magnanimity.
    [...]

     They didn't carefully weigh options and evaluate the pros and cons and make errors in judgment, the sort of thing that can happen to the most careful individual or team. They studiously ignored everyone who warned them against taking the action they had decided upon years before the World Trade Centers were turned to ashes and dust. [...]

     - emphasis added

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    from the neo-cons; the hubristic plan to..
    Plans for Redrawing the Middle East: The Project for a “New Middle East”
    The term “New Middle East” was introduced to the world in June 2006 in Tel Aviv by U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice (who was credited by the Western media for coining the term) in replacement of the older and more imposing term, the “Greater Middle East.”
    And from Dennis Kucinich June 17, 2014:
    Stop Calling the Iraq War a 'Mistake'

    source of image: http://defence.pk/...

    So this should happen, not just in Malaysia:
    Bush Convicted of War Crimes in Absentia -  by Yvonne Ridley | May 12, 2012

    Kuala Lumpur — It’s official; George W Bush is a war criminal.

    In what is the first ever conviction of its kind anywhere in the world, the former US President and seven key members of his administration were yesterday (Fri) found guilty of war crimes.

    Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and their legal advisers Alberto Gonzales, David Addington, William Haynes, Jay Bybee and John Yoo were tried in absentia in Malaysia.

    I too believe this: I'm a big believer in mercy and forgiveness. And second chances...when it is warranted, and the guilty have demonstrated actual remorse and are no longer a danger to society.

    None of that is true of 90% of an administration guilty of killing 100's of thousands of people. and wounded many many more.

    Cheney,  Rumsfeld,  Condoleezza Rice iow's all those most guilty (and with Wolfowitz and all those others even now pushing for more war), have shown zero remorse and are now advocating the commission of more war crimes.

    These neo-cons are not only a clear and present danger to society, today, they constitute a cabal that is now proven to be a Global menace. One that could indeed threaten, if not world war, then the closet thing to it.

    A world in perpetual war.

    So I am convinced with the latest threats coming from these warmongering neo-cons, whether it is because some may now be afraid and trying to limit the fall-out now that they have been exposed as guilty of lying us into war or perhaps worse, that they do not admit they are guilty (Cheney et al.: that more war is the solution; either way in order to heal this nation and that means our presence all over the globe) this has to happen:
    It’s NOT Too Late to Try Bush, Cheney and Obama for War Crimes

    Many argue that the statute of limitations on Bush and Cheney’s crimes of lying us into the Iraq war and torture have all run … so it is too late to prosecute them.

    However, the United States War Crimes Act of 1996, a federal statute set forth at 18 U.S.C. § 2441, makes it a federal crime for any U.S. national, whether military or civilian, to violate the Geneva Convention by engaging in murder, torture, or inhuman treatment.

    Thank you MB for the truth we all, the world, needs on this
    •  No mistake that the invasion was a war crime (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Eric Nelson, YucatanMan, kurt

      and will continue to be so long as no one is brought to account.

      There is no statute if limitations but I doubt we will ever see anyone prosecuted. Sad, just sad.

      Our prime purpose in this life is to help others. And if you can't help them, at least don't hurt them. Dalai Lama

      by SamanthaCarter on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 03:18:28 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  National & Global security concerns (0+ / 0-)

      Thx MB - for the history on this

      •  Just one more thing on hubris that isn't.. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Meteor Blades, kurt

        .. and is almost impossible to make understood - imo- to have every American person really step into the shoes of the people in the countries we invade and seek to control.

        The USA is not the center of the universe

        Vast numbers were made dead who would today be alive were if not for this war initiated out of American exceptionalism, hubris and doctored evidence. Thousands of dead Americans. Tens to hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqis.
        To be able to imagine how we would feel if any other nation were to "decide" that we, the USA, needed something.
        Needed to do something, and then landed on our shores and proceed to make the changes that we Americans Needed.
         A new President. a new congress, a new government.

        How our women could dress, what was taught in schools, what religion we must adhere to or could not believe in

        Not saying that some of countries of the middle east don't have severe civil rights problems (with women and other issues) but that is not the point.

        The very fact there is a the belief mostly amongst, but not limited to the warmongering neo-cons of America, that we have the right no, the "obligation" to police the entire world.

        That to me is absolutely amazing hubris on steroids right there. And it is from this perspective, or actually to be more accurate, this utter lack of perspective that we must dig ourselves up out of.

        It's a huge delusion. A dangerous arrogance that is at the core of way too many assumptions we come to about the world that we view as being  "around us".

        Kind of like Copernicus discovered we were not (or actually another Italian man before him according to Cosmos' Neil deGrasse Tyson)  Geocentric.

        We are not the center of the world

        It's actually a form of bigotry to say that we are the "exceptional" ones. And anyone (like the first lady Michelle Obama was lambasted by the RWNJ's for saying) that we are not the very best in the world is considered unpatriotic. I blame much on the avarice of 1%er extraction industries as the Genesis of this belief going way back even earlier than the East India etc.

        It is this national blindness that we must undo by learning about people in other nations. Getting down of our exalted perch where we look down on people to the point where we consider ourselves, we appoint ourselves their betters.

        We'd have a lot better chance at good relations if we got that perspective and saw this within ourselves first before we sought to judge and decide for others in many of our foreign affairs policies what is needed for other countries

         - imo

        Thx again MB for this

  •  A mistake (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SamanthaCarter, kurt

    It most definitely was not a mistake.  It was a fucking crime.

  •  FINALLY!!! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kurt

    Finally someone gets it right!!  There are about 20 different investigations of the Obama administration and countless right wing nutjobs in Congress want to impeach him. Why, why why why why did we not go after Bush Cheney Rumsfeld, Wolfie and Condi and try to put this RICO organization in jail!!!!!!!!!

    Boycott WalMart; Boycott Papa Johns; and Boycott BP

    by truthronin on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 03:21:35 PM PDT

  •  An unbiased, non-partisan judgment is in order (0+ / 0-)

    I understand there's an open courtroom and a few judges just twiddling their thumbs at The Hague this week..

    Dear future generations: Please accept our apologies, We were roaring drunk on petroleum -Kurt Vonnegut

    by Anthony Page aka SecondComing on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 03:24:29 PM PDT

  •  I remember the first Gulf War. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kurt

    Iraqi prisoners were marched out of the desert wearing their complete combat regalia: pants. No shoes, no shirts, no helmets, no body armor ... pants.

    And THIS was the force they were putting up against a state of the art war machine?

    It could not have been more clear that Iraq posed no strategic threat. What monumental cowardice, what a bully. And the whole world outside the US (except for a few in great Britain) understood it.

    Absolutely it was a war crime. Posterity will record it as such, even if BushCheney pass without ever being accountable.

    Thank you, MB.

    "The opposite of war isn't peace, it's CREATION." _ Jonathan Larson, RENT -9.62, -9.13

    by BeninSC on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 04:06:06 PM PDT

  •  You break it; you own it !! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kurt

    Not only was it "not a mistake," it was a deliberate disaster,  and they knew it.

    Before (1991) Desert Storm the CIA and State Department, both, warned that toppling Saddam Hussein would lead to disaster.  George H.W. Bush and his Secretary of Defense, Richard Cheney, took those warnings to heart.  Here is Cheney repeating them in 1994.  And, here is George H.W. Bush and Brent Scowcroft repeating them in their 1998 book "A World Transformed":

      Trying to eliminate Saddam, extending the ground war into an
       occupation of Iraq, would have violated our guidelines about not
       changing objectives in midstream, engaging in 'mission creep', and
       would have incurred incalculable human and political costs. ...  
       [We] would have have been forced to occupy Baghdad and, in effect,
       rule Iraq.  The coalition would instantly have collapsed, the Arabs
       deserting in anger and other allies pulling out as well.  Under
       those circumstances, there was no viable 'exit strategy' we could
       see, violating another of our principles... Had we gone the invasion
       route, the United States could conceivably still be an occupying
       power in a bitterly hostile land.  It would have been a dramatically
       different -- and perhaps barren -- outcome.
    This most certainly was not a "mistake;" they knowingly provoked a disaster.  My question is "WHY??"  Was it merely hubris?  Was it an oedipal conflict between GWB and his father?  Did the Zionists among the neocons truly believe they were "securing the realm," as they claimed in their 1996 "Clean Break" report to Netanyahu?

    In 1974, I was warned about Paul Wolfowitz: "He very, very smart and very, very crazy."  I asked: "How crazy?"  The reply was "As crazy as it gets," from which I presumed he was advocating a preemptive nuclear strike against the Soviet Union, which would have meant the end of civilization as we now know it.  So, taking out Saddam Hussein is probably not the craziest thing he has advocated.

    And, perhaps, becoming CEO of Haliburton pushed Cheney's greed button in ways that overcame whatever good sense he previously had.

    But, I still can't understand how those fools thought that creating a power vacuum that would surely be filled by Jihadists and Iranian fundamentalists was going to work out in the interests of the U.S. and/or Israel.

  •  By your logic there are a lot of Dems, including (0+ / 0-)

    the next President of the US that are culpable as well.

  •  Meteor Blades (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Meteor Blades, Eric Nelson, mimi, kurt

    One of the best ever of your writing, past (in your block quote) & present (in this diary).
    Thank you.

    If I could write down my thoughts about this "squalid project", I would`t, but I`d know to link to your writing of it.

    I`ve never seen the mirror of my thoughts, so clearly reflected.

    I`m already against the next war.

    by Knucklehead on Sun Jun 22, 2014 at 08:09:08 PM PDT

  •  A tour de force of writing, MB. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    River Rover

    A tour de force of writing, MB.

  •  Didn't get a chance to read this till this AM (0+ / 0-)

    If you have file entitled "Best Diaries I've Written", put this one in it MB.

    Kudos (whatever they are) to you

    Rivers are horses and kayaks are their saddles

    by River Rover on Mon Jun 23, 2014 at 08:52:01 AM PDT

  •  The evidence is fucking irrelevant. (0+ / 0-)

    Agrressive War is a fucking crime.

    There is no fucking exemption for "if we don't like our targets weapons programs".

      Barring a UN security resolution, attacking a country which has not attacked yours is criminal.

    And every Senator and Congressman who voted to butcher Iraqi's knew they were engaged in a crime.

    The UN should give Iraq a restraining order against the US.

    by JesseCW on Mon Jun 23, 2014 at 01:10:01 PM PDT

  •  In an interview with Bill Moyers (0+ / 0-)
    [Andrew] Bacevich draws parallels between the current Iraqi crisis and the Vietnam War, discusses our evolving relationship with Iran and challenges neoconservatives for their take on US foreign policy.

    “My reading [of history] is of course there is evil in the world that needs to be taken into account and some time must be confronted,” Bacevich tells Moyers. “But let’s not kid ourselves: In somehow imagining that the United States represents all that is good and virtuous, we, ourselves, have committed many sins. And we ought to be cognizant of those sins before we go pronouncing about how the world ought to be run.”

    Motivated by any one of hundreds of different forms of pride, arrogance or hubris, simple greed or criminal thievery, there are many politicians who are as corrupt and evil as myth.  That they have not been brought to justice within our society - that they are as often pardoned as prosecuted - is a reflection of that corruption.  So, helping his former employer, Halliburton, reap a whopping $39 Billion in the rape of Iraq, Richard Bruce Cheney remains a free man.  Here is the archvillain of Iraq, yet no pundit dares to insult him with questions about why the Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Commission has convicted him of his "mistakes."  He is a free man, though his travels are a bit restricted.  

    There are a number of others who were also convicted in absentia, of evil, wrongdoing, torture and war crimes.  There was no mistake about their intention, though they may each have had different motives.  Their intention was to do evil, unspeakable things.

    What we need is a Democrat in the White House. ~ expatjourno

    by ezdidit on Mon Jun 23, 2014 at 10:02:58 PM PDT

  •  they weren't "wrong" -- they actively LIED (0+ / 0-)

    i hate it when people say Cheney et al. were "wrong" on Iraq

    Politics is like driving. To go backward put it in R. To go forward put it in D.
    DEMAND CREATES JOBS!!!
    Drop by The Grieving Room on Monday nights to talk about grief.

    by TrueBlueMajority on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 05:28:51 AM PDT

  •  Credit due (0+ / 0-)

    Thanks to Dennis Kucinich for setting this piece up :)

  •  Higher Quality (0+ / 0-)

    The invasion of Iraq was a mistake in the same fashion as the German invasion of Poland was a mistake. The main difference is that those German leaders were actually higher quality War Criminals than are those who called for the Iraq War. Most had served in World War I unlike our chicken hawks and most had the presence of mind to kill themselves or be executed without trying to justify their crimes unlike our groveling miscreants.

  •  And call it what it really is. An Oil War. (0+ / 0-)

    We are involved militarily in the Middle East, not because of Al Qaeda and the Mullahs in Iran. We are involved because of the oil. Al Qaeda and the Mullahs are a result of our involvement.

  •  It should have been clear... (0+ / 0-)

    to anyone who followed even the most basic news of the day that Saddam was a "bad guy."  However, it was equally evident that he kept Iraq under control through the usual intimidation and violence.  His was a minority party of the minority religion that resorted to gassing his own citizens when they sought greater freedom.

    Okay, he was a certified "bad guy."  I think we all acknowledge that.  However, it should have been equally clear that if you remove him you're taking the top off the pressure cooker.  The nascent rebellions that he had repeatedly crushed were inevitably going to churn and bubble.

    Bush et al planned to "install democracy" in a country that had no experience with it, no leaders to help direct it, and a whole host of groups that would fight for the power it offered.  Doh!  Bush and Cheney et al just figured it would work somehow without ever considering the brew they were about to release.  Winning the war was never much of an issue.  Winning the peace was something that completely eluded them...because they saw no need to consider it.  Mistake?  Nope, just pure ineptitude.  Of course, there was a great chance for their friends to make some serious money, so.........

  •  "Mistake" (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    a gilas girl

    Given the audience for DK, I'm pretty sure we all agree that the pretense that led to our "preemptive war" in Iraq was egregious. But taking exception to the word "mistake" is, itself, a mistake. "Mistake" does not necessarily connote "accident". Something that is a bad idea is a mistake. Buying my Chevy Citation in 1980 was a mistake. Buying my Ford Pinto in 1971 was a mistake.

    I have no doubt that going into Iraq was intentional, premeditated, criminal, ..., but it was also a mistake.

    •  To be fair to the diarist... (0+ / 0-)

      I think the title is about altering common perceptions and taking up a new angle of vision.

      Thanks for choosing today to join our dk conversation.  You may have noticed, however, that the diary you are commenting in is already a couple of days old, so the comment threads are more or less "dead".  Here's hoping you'll find more to engage you in threads that are still live.

      Welcome to Daily Kos. If you have any questions about how to participate here, you can learn more at the Community Guidelines, the Knowledge Base, and the Site Resource Diaries. Diaries labeled "Open Thread" are also great places to ask. We look forward to your contributions.
      ~~ from the DK Partners & Mentors Team.

      Words can sometimes, in moments of grace, attain the quality of deeds. --Elie Wiesel

      by a gilas girl on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 02:15:47 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  It was no mistake at all. (0+ / 0-)

    Invading a country and violating its sovereignty is not something that just happens.  The whole thing was obviously carefully planned.  And just look what a mess resulted from this.

  •  IRAQ & the GOP (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    a gilas girl, Klick2con10ue

    Dear Mr. President,
    When will we stop suffering the negative and disruptive consequences of the worst Administration in the history of our Nation? (Yes, the 8 terrible years of the Bush/Cheney era, which I will refer to as “They”). Is anyone willing to speak the TRUTH, without fear of reprisal?
    This is the most incredible hypocrisy we witnessed by the GOP, and they have staged many!
    1st  They did not study the history of the deep rooted, underlining causes of the internal strife in Iraq, the region and the consequences of entering  a war without a  plan
    2nd They start a war by lying to the American people and the world
    3rd They entered a war without a concrete plan to fund, win and exit the conflict
    4th They caused the death of 5K+ American service men and women
    5th They caused aggravated and lifelong injuries to 50K+  very badly scarred, physically & emotionally,  US service men and women
    6th They caused the death of hundreds of thousands of civilians
    7th They spent well over US$ 1 trillion of US taxpayers’ money, without accomplishments
    8th Now they are urging the current Administration and the American people to re-enter a war that we should have never entered in the first place
    9th They were delusional and ill informed then and they still are today
    10th Thy are blaming the problem on the current Administration
    Mr. President, please, NO MORE WARS, out of respect to the souls of the brave men & women who already paid with their lives and those that will continue to pay, due to their injuries,
    We must focus our efforts, resources, talent and finances on fixing our educational system, our unbalanced economy, expensive health care and crumbling infrastructure, if we wish to have any hope of continuing to be a great and civilized nation.
    Humbly,
    Francesco
    Francesco C. Leboffe
    64 willow street
    Garden city, NY 11530-6315
    fleboffe@rcn.com

    •  I think... (0+ / 0-)

      many folks at dk would agree with you and the thoughts you've so eloquently expressed here.   Unfortunately, this particular diary is now a couple of days old and conversations tend to only stay fresh (or live) for about 24.

      Here's hoping you'll find more conversations to engage you here.

      Welcome to Daily Kos. If you have any questions about how to participate here, you can learn more at the Community Guidelines, the Knowledge Base, and the Site Resource Diaries. Diaries labeled "Open Thread" are also great places to ask. We look forward to your contributions.
      ~~ from the DK Partners & Mentors Team.

      Words can sometimes, in moments of grace, attain the quality of deeds. --Elie Wiesel

      by a gilas girl on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 02:19:01 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Thanks for clearing that up (0+ / 0-)

    That's what we get for not prosecuting mass murdering neocons.

  •  The neocons were not mistaken (0+ / 0-)

    for their own purposes. They have been wildly successful. Oil profits have been outlandish and the war machine has been engorged with cash. For over a decade. Their whole point and aim was DE-stabilization, not democracy.

    That is what makes them so fundamentally psychopathically criminal. They are war profiteers who make money on death and destruction.  Defending an anti-competitive industry we know to be leading humanity to potential calamity. They are fundamentally anti-American, using American resources against the larger interests of Americans, including killing Americans in illegal "war".

    Profiting from war should not be legal here or anywhere.  It is unequivocally immoral and motivates people to do wrong. If war is necessary, patriotic non-profits or an ad hoc nationalized industry should be the mechanism to produce weapons. What would our foreign policies be, and have been, if that had always been the case.

  •  Follow the money (0+ / 0-)

    For the Bush Cheney neocon cabal, the fiasco was the point and the intent.  Oil prices go up from destabilizaton, not democracy.  War profits go up from destabilization, not democracy. From the shifting motivations about the "war" it is clear they were simply lying to get destabilization going.

    A two month war would have been a mistake, from their point of view.

    Look at what happened to the oil industry and the military industries.  Follow the money.  There was no mistake. There was evil.

  •  George Wanted a War (0+ / 0-)

    From the minute George entered office, he was shaking his spear at China. George wanted a war, any war just like dear old dad had. When 9/11 happened, it gave him the excuse he needed and, gee whiz, he ended up in the same country daddy did. Unfortunately for George, he did not have the intelligence or self-control his dad had. He also did not have a justified reason for the war. The lies that were told were to try for the justification that just was not there.

    When Daddy Bush went into Iraq, he had a good reason. He went in, did what was necessary and was out in just several weeks. He left the country still under the control of Sadaam Hussein which kept the country stable and helped Kuwait, not only to survive but to flourish. If you remember, the soldiers threw down their weapons and surrendered in mass to the Americans during desert storm. Just like they are doing for ISIS. These people do not want to fight, anyone. If we are war weary, think how weary they must be after 700 years of wars.

    Georgy boy had several people around him who were much more intelligent and more evil and greedy than he was. These men and women, had oil interests that they wanted to have more control over. They manipulated the situation and George, himself, to their own gain. Afghanistan, where the  real problem was held no interest for their greed and I truly believe that left to his own devices, George might not have invaded at all or with proper advisers would have focused on Afghanistan and that would have been a different outcome for all.

    Who knows why George decided on Dick Cheney for his vice president but I believe that was his first mistake. Cheney has no love for the US, he just is all about greed.

    The lies and manipulations that led up to the Iraq war were fed by people's fears after 9/11. Dick Cheney is still trying to use that fear today. It is time people stop quoting him and listening to him.

    We have no business in the Middle East. It is time we let them make their own decisions. We do not understand their culture and it is not our business to try to change them. Change must come from within by their own change of heart. So far they have shown they would rather continue as they have for centuries. That should tell us all we need to know.

  •  Charge the following with war crimes... (0+ / 0-)

    George Dubya Bush, Richard "the Dick" Cheney, Donald Rummysfeld and Condozlezza Rice. At the very least do not allow them to express any opinion regarding the current debacle in Iraq.

  •  Invasion of Iraq "mistake" (0+ / 0-)

    How much filthy lucre did Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld & Co. pocket via Halliburton et al?  Will these war criminals ever be called out?  Great analysis, Meteor Blades.

  •  Stop pretending the invasion of Iraq was a 'mistak (0+ / 0-)

    Stop pretending the invasion of Iraq was a 'mistake.' It lets the liars who launched it off the hook.

    IT WAS A DELIBERATE ACT OF TREASON THAT INVOLVED MANY PEOPLE, ALL OF WHOM WERE RICH AND POWERFUL AND THE CORRUPT POLITICIANS THAT WERE DIRECTLY INVOLVED.  GEORGE W. BUSH AND DICK CHENEY AND ALL OF THE OTHER ELECTED MEMBERS OF CONGRESS THAT SPOKE IN SUPPORT OF AND LIED TO GET THE AMERICA CITIZENS AND THE OTHER MEMBERS OF THE U. S. CONGRESS THAT VOTED TO DECLARE WAR.

    WHEN THE REAL TRAITORS AND THOSE WHO WERE GUILTY OF TREASON MADE A FORTUNE OFF OF THE DEATHS AND BLOOD SPILLED BY THE MEN AND WOMEN WHO BRAVELY SERVED IN THE WAR OF LIARS AND MONEY GRUBBING "OIL MONEY AND MORE OIL MONEY, AND MORE MONEY AND PROFITS FOR THE INDUSTRIAL MILITARY COMPLEX THESE UNSCRUPULOUS LYING BASTARDS EARNED.

    I WOULD LIKE TO SEE AN ACCOUNTING OF THE AMOUNT OF MONEY GEORGE W. BUSH, DICK CHENEY, THE SECRETARIES OF DEFENSE, MEMBERS OF CONGRESS,  ALL OF THE OIL CORPORATIONS AND MANUFACTURES OF MILITARY EQUIPMENT, MILITARY WEAPONS, MILITARY WEAPON SYSTEMS, MILITARY SUB-CONTRACTS, AMMUNITION, BOMBS, MEDICAL EQUIPMENT, MEDICAL SUPPLIES EARNED OFF OF THEIR INVESTMENTS AND OFF OF WHAT THEY SUPPLIED TO THE GOVERNMENTS.

    I BELIEVE THAT IS LOATHSOME, DETESTABLE, DEPLORABLE, REPREHENSIBLE AND ABOMINABLE FOR ANYONE TO MAKE A PROFIT OFF OF WAR, DEATH AND WOUNDING OF OUR YOUNG MEN AND WOMEN WHO SERVE IN THE MILITARY TO FIGHT THESE UNJUSTIFIABLE WARS.

    I PROPOSE THAT THE U.S. CONGRESS PASS A LAW THAT REQUIRES EVERY INDIVIDUAL, CORPORATION, INSTITUTION, COMPANY AND FOR PROFIT ORGANIZATION TO SELL THEIR PRODUCTS AND SERVICES AT COST DURING A DECLARED WAR.  ALL SHOULD SUFFER EQUALLY AND NO ONE SHOULD PROFIT.  I WOULD ALSO LIKE THEM TO DISCUSS IF THE SAME POLICY OR LAW SHOULD APPLY DURING NATIONAL DISASTER OR DECLARED NATIONAL EMERGENCY..

    I WOULD REQUEST THAT THE U. S. CONGRESS PASS A LAW THAT WOULD MAKE "PREVENTATIVE MILITARY ACTIONS OF WAR" ILLEGAL. THAT WOULD MAKE THE TARGETING FOR DEATH OF AN AMERICAN CITIZEN ILLEGAL, THAT WOULD MAKE ASSASSINATION OF A FOREIGN OR AMERICAN CITIZEN ILLEGAL, THAT WOULD MAKE ALL FORMS OF TORTURE ILLEGAL, THAT WOULD MAKE ANY KIND OF SPYING ON AN AMERICAN CITIZEN ON U. S. SOIL ILLEGAL WITHOUT A FEDERAL COURT WARRANT, THAT WOULD MAKE RAPE OF A FOREIGNER DURING WAR ILLEGAL, THAT WOULD MAKE THE MURDER OF ANY WOMAN OR CHILD DURING A WAR ILLEGAL UNLESS THEY WERE COMBATANTS.

    HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS ARE STILL UNACCOUNTED FOR.

    ALWAYS REMEMBER THAT REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT DWIGHT DAVID EISENHOWER WARNED US AGAINST THE "MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX"  IN THE 1950'S.

  •  Sir you are (0+ / 0-)

    still hitting the nail square on the head. Thanks for bringing the truth to light once again.

    one must take a position that is neither safe, nor politic, nor popular, but he must do it because Conscience tells him it is right. MLK

    by Klick2con10ue on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 02:27:41 PM PDT

  •  Deja Vu (0+ / 0-)

    This reminds me a lot of Noam Chomsky's comment on  the Vietnam war -- that the right called it, 'the defense of South Vietnam' and the left called it, 'the mistaken defense of South Vietnam."

    Even a cursory look at the conflict and its history shows both statements to be outright lies.

    South Vietnam didn't exist until Eisenhower created it because, in his own words, if he hadn't, Ho Chi Minh would have won the election. Add to that, the fact that the official estimate of the number of N. Vietnamese soldiers in S. Vietnam at the beginning of the war was negligible, and the fact that we dropped more bombs on South Vietnam than we did on all of Europe in WWII.

    You are absolutely right. The perversion of language around the Iraq war is strikingly Orwellian.

  •  If you judge by the outcome (0+ / 0-)

    no this was not a mistake.  If what you wanted was permanent war by destabilizing the region you succeeded.  If you wanted to extend the U.S. sphere of influence to the area you succeeded.  If you wanted to transfer trillions of U.S. dollars to the MIC you succeeded.  If you wanted to divide the U.S. politically so as to make change next to impossible you succeeded.  So it is mission accomplished as GWB proclaimed.  The question is what are we going to do about it.

  •  I've ranted about it in more detail (0+ / 0-)

    during the short time I've been posting on the Daily Kos, but MSNBC, David Corn, and their Hubris documentary, might as well have come from Dick Cheney. "Liberals" who pretend to expose the war and play it down are worse than Fox Noise in my opinion.

  •  There are times (0+ / 0-)

    when I feel like drawing a line. If a politician can't prosecute war criminals, I can't vote for them. But I'll probably give in again and keep voting for the lesser of evils.

  •  They had to know... (0+ / 0-)

    In GW Bush the neocons found someone that they could actually convince the world was dumb enough to do something as stupid as invading Iraq.

    But there's an actual “smoking gun” that they had to know how bad of an idea it was! Here’s a link to a video of a Cheney interview circa 1994. The scoundrel even used the word “quagmire”!

    http://www.youtube.com/...

  •  They lied period. (0+ / 0-)

    We shouldn't be sending anyone or anything. We might as well be paying for recruitment for the enemy by going. These guys abandoned their own posts. Why should we save them?  So,.. Which corporation is going to make a killing off of this one?

  •  War Criminals (0+ / 0-)

    All war is criminal.  War crimes in current society seem only to be handed out to the loosing party. So, I guess as long as you can portray yourself as the victor...!  There is still karma to be dealt with, and for this they have no control!  

    •  "All war is criminal" is more of a philosophical (0+ / 0-)

      statement than a legal one, isn't it?

      And yes, winning a war means you get to write the rules (and the laws about it)

      Thanks for joining our dk conversation today.  You may not have noticed but this diary that you chose to respond to is already 2 days old, so the conversation has mostly died off.  Here's hoping you'll find other more recent diaries that engage you as well.

      Welcome to Daily Kos. If you have any questions about how to participate here, you can learn more at the Community Guidelines, the Knowledge Base, and the Site Resource Diaries. Diaries labeled "Open Thread" are also great places to ask. We look forward to your contributions.
      ~~ from the DK Partners & Mentors Team.

      Words can sometimes, in moments of grace, attain the quality of deeds. --Elie Wiesel

      by a gilas girl on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 07:32:19 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Well... (0+ / 0-)

    From all the warmongers who have been in the media lately... wow, real tough talk, hero's of America.  Funny, I don't see you heading over there.

    Sure, just send in more 20-somethings to die for a conflict that is COMPLETELY none of our business.

    These idiots just sit there and spout off about how "weak" we are (the U.S.), how Obama is weak, blah blah blah.

    Right...  weak?  Weak is a person frothing at the mouth for more war when they're not going to join the fight themselves, but want to send other people to die for what THEY want.

    Brilliant.

    I really thought we were done with Cheney.  The guy is a walking cancerous tumor infecting everyone around him.  Seeing his face literally upsets my stomach.

  •  I would not be surprised (0+ / 0-)

    if Koch enterprises were shown to have paid for agitation on the ground in Iraq during an election year.

  •  Excuse my language please (0+ / 0-)

    This great big cluster fuck, started out of ineptitude, stupidity, greed, revenge(Shrub for his daddy), & the illegal actions of the Republican led Supreme Court. Yes the little puke might have still won, but them giving it to him was beyond their scope of power. He was not my President, nor will I ever call him that. Clinton could have been President interim, until it all got settled. And please get one thing straight, there wasn't one pres, there were 2, Cheney & Bush Sr. All past Presidents are given the opportunity to go through & read new classified documents pertaining to current events. Bush Sr is the only one in history to ever use that opportunity. & you can bet since his OWN fiasco turned out so well he couldn't wait to fuck things up even further.

    One thing (& one of the first things he did period) President Obama did that pisses me off to this day was pardoning all of these pieces of shit, as a good will gesture. Looking at Congress & all of the fuck ups in the Rep/Tea parties that really worked!!! /Sarcasm

  •  It seems there's an awful lot of hate in Iraq. (0+ / 0-)

    I often wonder if the ONLY reason that any Iraqi would want an American presence in their nation is because it would give the factions that are currently shooting at one another a common target for their hatred - and their bullets.

    OF COURSE the New Right is wrong - but that doesn't make WRONG the new RIGHT!

    by mstaggerlee on Wed Jun 25, 2014 at 11:10:04 AM PDT

  •  Whose Mistake? (0+ / 0-)

    We are entering an extremely dangerous situation with Iraq and the push for another Iraq invasion by the neo-cons in our government.  There have been many reports that Sunni ISIS, the militant group attacking Iraq's oil fields are supported by the U.S.A. and I believe it.  It is another covert means of creating an excuse to invade Iraq.  The ISIS militants are those Sunni Muslims trained by us and Israel who were in Syria as the Free Syria Army and who are armed to the teeth with American supplied weapons and equipment.  Those neo-cons are Republicans bought and paid for by Zionist elements who will stop at nothing to get us into another conflagration in a Middle Eastern country to support their goal of toppling all Arab countries surrounding them in a domino affect.  Israel stands in the middle of the Arab World as an aggressive manipulator with 300 to 400 nuclear warheads aimed at everyone around her.  She manipulates our Republican and some Democratic politicians to get us to follow her "orders" - and has the backing of the Zionist international banking cabal to back her up.  After all, they have us by the proverbial short hairs in interest debt on fiat money.  Where will this end?  The potential for the chaos this invasion would create is enormous.  Albert Einstein said:  “I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.”

  •  Whose Mistake? (0+ / 0-)

    We are entering an extremely dangerous situation with Iraq and the push for another Iraq invasion by the neo-cons in our government.  There have been many reports that Sunni ISIS, the militant group attacking Iraq's oil fields are supported by the U.S.A. and I believe it.  It is another covert means of creating an excuse to invade Iraq.  The ISIS militants are those Sunni Muslims trained by us and Israel who were in Syria as the Free Syria Army and who are armed to the teeth with American supplied weapons and equipment.  Those neo-cons are Republicans bought and paid for by Zionist elements who will stop at nothing to get us into another conflagration in a Middle Eastern country to support their goal of toppling all Arab countries surrounding them in a domino affect.  Israel stands in the middle of the Arab World as an aggressive manipulator with 300 to 400 nuclear warheads aimed at everyone around her.  She manipulates our Republican and some Democratic politicians to get us to follow her "orders" - and has the backing of the Zionist international banking cabal to back her up.  After all, they have us by the proverbial short hairs in interest debt on fiat money.  Where will this end?  The potential for the chaos this invasion would create is enormous.  Albert Einstein said:  “I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.”

  •  Osama wins another round (0+ / 0-)

    One of the more transcendently-weird items of the Bush/Osama contretemps has been Bin Laden's oft-republished idea that the Soviet Union collapsed financially largely because they shot their last wad in an unwinnable, impossible war in the Mideast. And Osama said that he could do the exact same thing to America in the long run.

    And everyone circled around those statements like they were a shiny little turd in the middle of the dance floor, and no one wants to touch it, no one can address it, we all just really wish he hadn't said that. Well, guess what - that little turd just keeps growing and fermenting, it's sprouting claws and fangs and teeth and if we DON'T address it real quick - we'll never escape the dance alive.

    Just because Osama's dead doesn't mean his goals died with him. These guys have, like, hundred-year plans; like it or not, they're good at what they do. And we can't think past Friday. So let's go look at some cute kitten pictures!

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