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I was very disappointed to watch this video of people I truly admire making stupid comments.  

http://www.dailymotion.com/...

Bill Maher and Paul Rieckhoff are two of the good guys.  That's why I was saddened to see them attack Glenn Greenwald and Edward Snowdon.  They should know that the U.S. Government will say whatever they need to say to protect the status quo.  This kind of thinking is exactly what got us into Iraq in the first place.  All the mountain of "evidence" they had about WMDs were a total sham.  I knew they were lying when they couldn't produce one scintilla of real evidence, only speculation and manufactured props, to back their claim.  They had months to run around Iraq to find it.

Greenwald is right. It's up to the Government (and Rieckhoff and Maher) to produce the evidence to back their claim.  They have had months to do it.  Up to this point they have only misrepresented what Snowdon has done - listen to the clip.  

I, too, respect Richard Clark immensely, but he is part of the intelligence establishment and even he can find all kinds of ways to speculate on how the totality of the Snowdon files could be used.  It doesn't mean that the information that has been released has harmed anyone, and if so I'd like to know the circumstances.  If it did happen, they'd be screaming about it - without releasing any names or important details.  

Ellsberg did say that Snowdon should stay in Russia.  He of all people knows what Snowdon faces in this post 9/11 United [Surveillance] States.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Snowden pretty much has to stay (12+ / 0-)

    in Russia, doesn't he? Our government has already interfered with the sovereign flight to Bolivia just b/c they thought Snowden might be on that president's jet.

    Count me among those who consider Snowden a hero for exposing the overreach of our government. Beginning under Shrub, of course, but sadly NOT ending under our current administration.

    English usage is sometimes more than mere taste, judgment and education - sometimes it's sheer luck, like getting across the street. E. B. White

    by Youffraita on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 01:31:35 AM PDT

  •  First of all, I must admit (11+ / 0-)

    First of all, I must admit that I believe that Mr. Snowden committed a crime.  I agree that the revelations regarding Prism metadata collection may have caused more good than harm, but I still believe whistleblower status gives rise to other folks feeling as if they too could break the law.  Sorry.

    That being said, I must point out the obvious - you are requesting that the U.S. government release to the public classified information to show how much classified information Mr. Snowden stole.

    You said, "It doesn't mean that the information that has been released has harmed anyone, and if so I'd like to know the circumstances."

    Let me give a 'for instance' - when Valerie Plame's name was made public, there were indications that some of the people she met with before her cover was compromised had come into harms way.

    The more light that is shined on the Snowden document dump, the more likely that folks trying to assist the U.S. with information might be compromised.

  •  Maher is also an anti-vaccination CTer. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Claudius Bombarnac, sponson, quill

    On record more than once supporting quack claims against vaccines.  

    For which reason IMHO we should ignore him in these pages.

    Thanks for the measles outbreaks, Bill!  And whooping cough outbreaks too!

    We got the future back. Uh-oh.

    by G2geek on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 02:09:39 AM PDT

  •  F#*k Rieckhoff. He lost any credibility or 'good (12+ / 0-)

    guy' status when he called Sen. Bernie Sanders an apologist for the VA on TRMS. Sanders is our Lamarque who 'speaks for these people here below' in a body of self serving wretches. Paul Rieckhoff is a loud mouthed worthless miserable hack.

    You show a little grit and you lands in jail.

    by cal2010 on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 02:56:56 AM PDT

    •  A fallacy of irrelevance (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      leftykook

      Equating someone's character with the soundness of their argument is a logical fallacy.  Verbal abuse in the absence of an argument is just noise.   Senator Sanders is a big boy and defended himself and his actions quite handily in the next segment.  He did not resort to ad hominem attacks because he knows this is about veterans getting proper care.  As for Greenwald, he shook Rieckhoff's hand at the end of the broadcast.   Rieckhoff has a different perspective on this coming from the military and he brought up some very good points that Greenwald then responded to.

      You know Greenwald himself has admitted that he went through an overhaul of his perspectives and beliefs as he began to question common wisdom.   He has also said that he engages in a constant process of trying to check his own opinions and false premises.  That is probably why you will never see him attacking people like Rieckhoff personally.

      •  Reasonable people can differ upon the subject. (0+ / 0-)

        Do the costs of Snowden's releases outweigh the benefits? The evidence is inconclusive and/or classified. Maybe they do, maybe they don't - time will tell. My point was fuck Paul Rieckhoff and anything he's got to say about any fucking thing at all. I'll put my fingers in my ears and go la-la-la until he's done talking on any subject whenever he's on screen or just hit the mute. Let him waste his time looking to his beloved Republicans for support of veterans if he cares about anything other than his own self-aggrandizement. Until an apology is offered (and he don't seem the type) to The American People's Senator, Riekhoff's words trade at the same value for me as the neocon shitbags that lied us into the war.

        You show a little grit and you lands in jail.

        by cal2010 on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 03:12:42 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  That's "Snowden" With An "e" (2+ / 0-)

    Sorry if it sounds nitpicky, but you undermine the point you're trying to make with this sort of careless mistake.

    On the Internet, nobody knows if you're a dog... but everybody knows if you're a jackass.

    by stevemb on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 03:26:36 AM PDT

  •  Bill Maher is a weenie (10+ / 0-)

    When it comes to Islamic people, Maher is as paranoid and afraid as any right wing zealot. It's unfortunate and taints whatever he has to say on a huge range of subjects.

    "Given the choice between a Republican and someone who acts like a Republican, people will vote for a real Republican every time." Harry Truman

    by MargaretPOA on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 03:33:13 AM PDT

  •  I thought it was a great discussion. (7+ / 0-)

    It was a shame Glenn had to scream "bullshit" to try to make his point but we all know that is his style.

    I too respect Richard Clarke and for someone who does have access to classified material he has a history of being a straight shooter.

    •  Oh my goodness, Glenn said 'bullshit'? Horrible. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sponson

      The most un-convincable man is the one whose paycheck depends on remaining unconvinced. -- H. L. Mencken

      by kharma on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 06:20:58 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It makes him look immature and its to his own (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sponson

        detriment - very few take him seriously.

        •  Huh? (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          jrooth, unfangus
          Very few take him seriously
          Got a link for that or are you just polling yourself and whatever ' s in your pocket?

          The most un-convincable man is the one whose paycheck depends on remaining unconvinced. -- H. L. Mencken

          by kharma on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 09:48:01 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Seriously? From inside your bubble (0+ / 0-)

            he must be the most serious guy around. ;D

            •  Why do you assume I am in a bubble? (0+ / 0-)

              I could give two shits about Greenwald personally,   I'm just wondering how you became an authority on people's views in general.  Since you don't take him personally, does that mean "Very few people" take him seriously?  Are you the finely tuned indicator with your finger to the wind of public opinion?  What I have noticed here at DailyKos is that most people ( as indicated by rec's and tips ) seem to support Edward Snowden and there are a vocal minority that loudly don't support him.   If the population's oppinion  is represented here in even the minutest way, then you are wrong in a Bill Krystol sort of entirely and totally bassackwards king of wrong.  

              The most un-convincable man is the one whose paycheck depends on remaining unconvinced. -- H. L. Mencken

              by kharma on Wed Jun 25, 2014 at 07:36:49 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  I agree with you Theodor... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Fabienne, TracieLynn, The Jester

    not everything that Bill Maher says do I agree.  I guess that would apply to pretty much every human being I have ever met.  I won't cut down my golden delicious apple tree just because one or two apples had a worm-- instead I will cherish it for the fruit that is sweet and nutritious and be thankful that it does yield mostly great fruit.

    The most un-convincable man is the one whose paycheck depends on remaining unconvinced. -- H. L. Mencken

    by kharma on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 06:27:46 AM PDT

  •  Bill is right and on fire (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lordcopper, leftynyc

    did you see his interview on The View?

    -You want to change the system, run for office.

    by Deep Texan on Tue Jun 24, 2014 at 06:33:12 AM PDT

  •  Maher and Riekoff were absolutely right. (5+ / 0-)

    And Maher is often wrong.  Greenwald is a smarmy weasel.

  •  Maher and Clark (0+ / 0-)

    Are not stupid, they just do there homework before they engage in BS, Greenwald is a narcissus slime ball that used his wife as a mule

  •  He may "fight the power" but Rieckhoff is a ... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cal2010

    Republican. Don't forget that.

    Partisanship is like dogshit, it sticks to everything.

    Snowden did the right thing, was very deliberate and cautious in the doing, and Glenn and fellow journalists have been very careful with the information.

    At no point was anyone killed due to this release.

    However, many were without question KILLED by the outing of by the Republican administration stooges of Valerie Plame CIA operational agent.

    The "outing" didn't even give her 24 hours to contact those at risk and tell them to RUNNNNNNN!

    And I have yet to even understand WHY she was out'd, how does that impact what Amb Wilson found and passed on as regards African Yellowcake and Iraq?

    It was literally a case of the Bush administration punching itself in the face because it was mad, like a 3 yr old with a temper tantrum.

    No one really was punished, no republican outrage, and certainly Scooter and Novac and Rove were not taken out back and shot as traitors.

    Bill Maher is a funny guy, but there are issues where he simply doesn't have enough mind left (all that pot) to open it and re-learn the truth about his preconceptions.

    WISE UP BILL.

  •  Having a different opinion doesn't make you stupid (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    AntonBursch

    People have different perspectives on this and it is not a simple subject.  Rieckhoff comes from the military and has a very loyal, protective viewpoint about what he considers national defense matters.    Snowden has accelerated a national argument on what transparency means and whether we really have an open society and what it takes to get one.   There's a kind of pervasive "know-it-all" attitude in this debate when no such omniscience exists. The framing of this debate as good/bad, secrecy vs. transparency is arguably specious.

  •  I was very disturbed by that exchange. And to (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cal2010

    whomever was peeved by Greenwald calling bullshit, I wish more journalists would start calling people out for their bullshit.  I wish that Maher had Richard Clark there to answer for himself.  Especially since his (RC) "bullshit" tell is evident to seeing people.  He blinks like a madman and then gulps a couple of times.

    Rieckhoff figured out how to make six-figures "supporting" vets.  Hey Paul, there are already plenty of vets' advocacy groups.  I would like to know how many vets he has helped...

    Bill Maher frequently lacks the ability to debate an issue all the way through.  I think he needs to hire a better research assistant.  I have caught him on more than one occasion lacking the facts on an issue, or missing the primary point of contention.

    Either way, I will continue to watch, because sometimes he gets it right...

    "We know too much to go back and pretend" - Helen Reddy (humble cosmos shaker)

    by ditsylilg on Fri Jun 27, 2014 at 09:39:25 AM PDT

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