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    Ever since I saw the picture of our Statue of Liberty, with a sign beside it reading "Defending America", I have experienced one reaction after another. Shock, that someone could twist the meaning of that inspiring monument. Anger, at those who would want others to believe that she is barring them from our shores. Confusion as to  why anyone, that was raised in this country and had the same history taught to them, could use our iconic symbol of freedom in such a negative manner. And, sadness, that one of our own had lost his or her moral compass.
     What has our country become? What have WE become? What happened to "love thy neighbor, as thyself"?

    I saw very little, if any, common sense, decency or compassion in the faces and actions of that crowd that stopped those buses in California. That was NOT a peaceful protest. They were angry, yelling derogatory words at the occupants and even lashing out and spitting on some of their own neighbors for not sharing their opinion.
     Those buses held children, for Gods' sake! Young boys and girls, women, mothers with babies! They were fleeing countries caught in war and in chaos! Their lives were in danger! They may not have seen her as they crossed our border, but THEY know that she holds a welcoming torch and NOT A STOP SIGN!
     Some of the women and girls were raped, during that log trek. They had been told to not tell or they would be killed. But, THEY CONTINUED ON! They came to get away from the violence, and what did some of our countrymen do? They met them with a hatred they were all too familiar with!
     THEY ARE NOT "ALIENS"! THEY ARE HUMAN BEINGS! THEY ARE REFUGEES! (Google it...there IS a difference!) And, by law, they are entitled to asylum as they go through due process. I don't know all the ins-and-outs of that whole thing, but I do know that I was horrified and ashamed that those Americans felt they had the right to express their "freedom of speech" in such a hateful manner.
     Thanks to the people of Isidro, those refugees were given a decent welcome! They should not have to fear anyone, in this country!
     Common sense, decency and compassion have been at the core of every decision this country has made, since OUR FOREFATHERS IMMIGRATED TO THIS GREAT LAND! That magnificent Lady, standing so proudly in our harbor, deserves an apology from those who chose to use her for their own ignorant reasons!

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Comment Preferences

  •  I was horrified (7+ / 0-)

    to see on another site following a story about these fleeing children, the conversation in the comments mostly turned to how these children could be stopped, not how to care for them now they're here. I offered some suggestions regarding the latter and was completely ignored - that wasn't what they wanted to discuss at all. I left the conversation in disgust.

    As you so accurately point out, these are refugees, not illegal aliens and the vast majority of them are children. How can anyone, with an iota of compassion in their soul, turn away children? It beggars belief.

    The sound of one hand clapping is ‘cl’ – unless of course you're left-handed in which case it’s ‘ap’. (◕‿◕)

    by Mopshell on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 05:56:50 AM PDT

  •  We are a nation of laws. (6+ / 0-)

    The inscription on a random statue is not U.S. law.

  •  How low... (3+ / 0-)

    ...should we allow US wages to fall before we stop immigration?

    Immigration drags down US wages and makes it harder for American families to reach the middle class.

    •  That's actually untrue, and there is (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      alwaysquestion, MemaW, petesmom

      substantial academic research published that proves it to be untrue. Immigration is a net positive for both economic growth, job growth, and wages. The only group that shows up in these studies as losing ground due to immigration is the bottom 10% or so of wage earners. Immigrants help (or don't hurt) 90% of us, so they are a GOOD thing economically.

      •  I have seen... (4+ / 0-)

        ...research claiming that immigration helps "economic growth" (Whatever the heck that is. What is "economic growth", anyway?)

        I have seen nothing saying that anybody's wages go up when people immigrate.

        Also, there's this:


        "The only group that shows up in these studies as losing ground due to immigration is the bottom 10% or so of wage earners. Immigrants help (or don't hurt) 90% of us, so they are a GOOD thing economically."
        The bottom 10% don't have as much Internet access, so I don't think they are as likely to post to DKos. But isn't that the group we Progressives are supposed to be helping? Immigration is a way to take those who are already beaten down and kick them even harder.

        People who need their crops picked or their lawns mowed or their IT infrastructure supported should hire some Black and Brown people from America. There is no need to import more.

      •  one percenters can just do with a tiny bit less. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        alwaysquestion, IT Professional

        “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

        by ban nock on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 08:26:25 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  The United States takes in more immigrants (6+ / 0-)

    than any other country in the world. There is a system by which people can lawfully immigrate into this country.
       People who sneak across the border aren't lawful immigrants and the US owes them nothing.
       With US unemployment still far above historic levels, it is understandable that many citizens are upset with what they see as flagrant violations of immigration law and concern about an influx of low wage workers.
       There seems to be a belief among many commenters here that the US should have no border restrictions at all.
        That is logically inconsistent with the opinion that these same commenters usually also hold, that the minimum wage should be much higher than it is currently.
        The US simply does not have the resources to accomodate all those who show up at the border looking for a better life.

    •  We owe all suffering children something. (7+ / 0-)

      At least I feel that I do. Maybe you don't.

      •  Particularly when we have done more than (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        houyhnhnm, alwaysquestion, MemaW

        our fair share to destabilize the countries they are coming from.

        In our criminal justice system, a Republican is presumed innocent until the 2nd Coming. - Gooserock

        by ExpatGirl on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 08:13:10 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Even if we hadn't. (5+ / 0-)

          Anyone who rants about how terrible US policies are toward the poor in this country, and who says they really care about the suffering of the downtrodden, is no true liberal if their sentiments stop with people who live on this side of the border and who are documented.

          Human beings are human beings.

          •  The U.S. resources are not unlimited. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            alwaysquestion, bobtmn

            Just like any family that feeds it's own children rather than the hundreds who would show up to their front door each mealtime.

            Would you give away all your family's savings to beggars showing up to your door today?

            •  My socialist youth.. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              alwaysquestion

              I remember when I was about 16 and was proudly supporting the kind of free-world socialism that was in vogue with my hippie subculture.

              My dad posed a question to me, after laying out the numbers  of how much richer americans are than the rest of the world.  I forget those numbers, but they were stark!

              He asked me to imagine I had a button, and every time I pressed the button, half the wealth of Americans, including our family,  would be shared equally among all citizens of the world.

              How many times would I press the button?

              I had to honestly answer, at least to myself, that I would not press it even once.

            •  That's a red herring. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              alwaysquestion

              No one is talking about giving away "all" our resources to immigrants. It's not clear at all that immigrants absorb any net resources whatsoever (once you take into account their economic contribution to society, as well as the contributions made by their descendents). Nobody in the US protests immigrants from Sweden. But if brown people want to come in, all of the sudden we can't take them.

              •  Can't tell for sure from your comments (0+ / 0-)

                but I get the feeling you are for open borders.  True or Not?

                It seems to me that this issue is too highly emotional to so many that the logic goes out the window, for both sides to be fair.

                We have millions of "brown" people that came into this nation by applying in the legal way, and they were accepted legally.  I honestly do not hear anyone complaining about that.

                I just don't understand why anyone would have an problem with the discussion about what to do.  No one is saying the kids on the bus should not get fed, but who is standing up to sponsor or adopt them...and the 60,000 to 80,000 estimated to follow this year.  What of next year?

                And that no where near solves the core problem of what to do about the conditions in Mexico and Central America.

                What do you propose the U.S. do?  

                1. What does it mean? 2. And then what?

                by alwaysquestion on Sun Jul 06, 2014 at 01:46:14 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

  •  When I see pictures of refugee camps (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sparhawk

    in Turkey or Jordan, I see the furture of the U.S. where Mexico and Central America is concerned.  There is no way any country can take in another country's population.  Turkey and Jordan are in trouble right now.  They cannot continue to "host" war refugees and both want a political solution to get those people back where they came from.

    Mexico and Central America suffer from overpopulation and a standard of living that is so low that it shocks the senses to see the conditions and hear of the suffering.  They are greatly influenced by the Catholic Church and therefore no birth control.  No birth control leads to, or keeps, a nation a third world.  You can change the politics but if you don't reverse overpopulation, the third world status stays.

    At this point, I see latino groups as no different than the political groups from Israel in their pressuring the U.S. to take action or adopt policy for their benefit, not the U.S..   I am starting to not trust either group.  The reason is that I do not hear of solutions.  I hear a list of wants, but no solutions.  I do not hear anyone speaking about what is best for the U.S. in any realistic sense.

    I do not hear people in this country who came from any other nation taking a strong stand and advocating that their brothers and sisters from their homeland be granted the right to move to and stay in the U.S..  Iraq? Ukraine? Pakistan? China? India? Syria?  None of them are screaming to open our borders and let their groups flood in.   They seem to respect the process of applying for citizenship.  I well imagine they do not want this nation to resemble their mother country given they just left that for a better life.  But it seems to me that the latino groups advocating for Mexicans and those from Central America to be able to flood the U.S. do not have the same respect for that process of law.  It is hard to take anyone serious when there isn't a solution that addresses all the issues.

    The problem is not one that can be solved by immigration.  There are way too many.  Mexico has a population of 120 million and Central America has 45 million.  And their population continues to grow given no birth control.  The U.S. cannot absorb those numbers.

    We went through a process during in the 1980s to grant amnesty to those here without papers.  But with Mexico's overpopulation issues, that has become somewhat like the episode of "I Love Lucy" at the chocolate factory.  She could no more take care of the load in front of her when a bigger and faster load came next.  Mexico and Central America will continue to grow their population faster than we can deal with it when it spills over into the U.S.

    How does anyone propose to deal with the numbers?  I mean logically.  Not emotionally.  The ugly protesters turning that bus around is a diversion from what really needs to take place, which is meaningful discussion on what to do about Mexico and Central America.  They need birth control in their nation.  They need education.  They need to value their future more than they value the Catholic Church; the two are not compatible.  They need to deal with the drug trade, which means we need to deal with our drug trade, the two being linked.

    So many things need to be addressed but the screaming on either side does no good for the long term solution.  The only thing I do not hear is anyone saying they will adopt any of those children (and their one parent or grandparent that brings them.)  I don't hear anyone saying they will step up and be a sponsor.  Which reminds me of the hypocrisy of the anti-abortion people who scream at pregnant girls to have their babies but none of those screamers will adopt.

    We cannot be the screamers.  We must speak with reason and deal with the reality.  Or else we run the risk becoming every bit as easy to tune out as the right wing crazies.  This is a crisis, as the President said, and we need a real solution.

    1. What does it mean? 2. And then what?

    by alwaysquestion on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 08:17:37 AM PDT

  •  Fascinating (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    alwaysquestion, dsb

    that two of the sites most prominent deformers show in an obscure little diary to argue against giving refuge to children.  I'm going to have to give this more thought.

    Light is seen through a small hole.

    by houyhnhnm on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 10:07:40 AM PDT

    •  I find it fascinating... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      alwaysquestion

      ...that when somebody can't address a logical argument, they resort to ad hominem attacks.

      If you have a logical plan for how to deal with another 10-15 million uneducated workers, let's hear it.  Your plan should include:

       1) How to finance medical care and job training.
       2) Compensation for poor and inner-city Americans who will face extra wage competition.
       3) How to employ additional immigrants when we can't even find jobs for the people we have.

      Now if you have not given this "more thought", that's OK. In fact, it's not surprising. But attacking the messenger is doesn't refute the message.

      It never does.

    •  I don't see anyone here advocating (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ban nock

      not feeding or dealing with those kids or the adults that came with them.

      No one here is saying the protesters spewing their hate at that bus load is anything but hateful.  That is a diversion for opposite ends to devolve down to the ridiculous level of nothingness and those groups will get less and less of an ear from the people who really do see a crisis and no one talking coherently about solutions.

      One bus load is nothing.  An estimated 60,000 to 80,000 this year alone from a U.S. official is something.  The numbers are staggering.  What is your solution?  How do you propose we get them acclimated into our nation and with what money?  Where do they stay?  Who raises them?

      There has to be a place where people can agree on the facts.  The numbers.  And put all ideas on the table and sort through what makes the most sense.  There has to be a way for logic and reason to be on the table to to stop shouting down anyone who disagrees with you or a point you are making.

      I am saying that it is ridiculous for either fringe side to think that they are viewed as credible with all of the emotional screaming going on.  That has to stop.  Let us all reason with logic using the facts and go from there.  Let us all be honest about the facts.  The fringe Right never want to see another Latino cross the border again and the fringe Left want no borders whatsoever.  Good grief!!  Can't you see how the middle would plug their ears for all of the screaming?

      Again, put solutions on the table.  No attacks.  Just honest discussions.  Please.

      1. What does it mean? 2. And then what?

      by alwaysquestion on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 12:15:37 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Lots of people were turned back (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    alwaysquestion, IT Professional

    At Ellis Island for various reasons. We have an immigration policy. Follow the rules is not a difficult concept.

    You best believe it does

    by HangsLeft on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 02:15:26 PM PDT

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