Skip to main content

For more than two decades, Edwin Lyngar voted conservative. Though government programs like WIC (Women, Infants, Children) and EITC (Earned Income Tax Credit) were the only things enabling him and his wife to balance their budget at the end of the year, Edwin hated government.

At 20 years old, the college dropout had joined the service and married a pregnant 19-year-old fellow dropout. The young couple found themselves in severely straitened circumstances and in desperate need of help. They accepted WIC vouchers but, after waiting a long time in a long line for Food Stamps, they never made it to the top of the queue. Deep feelings of failure and shame prevented them from securing the assistance for which their circumstances qualified them.

That, says Lyngar, is what damns poor Republicans at the ballot box – deep feelings of failure and shame. In his words:

I felt my own poverty was a moral failure. To support my feelings of inadequacy, every move I made only pushed me deeper into poverty.

To make up for my own failures, I voted to give rich people tax cuts, because somewhere deep inside, I knew they were better than me. They earned it. My support for conservative politics was atonement for the original sin of being white trash.

I ignored my own personal struggles when I made political decisions.

So Edwin continued to vote Republican. He voted Bush in 2000 and 2004. In 2008, he voted libertarian "even though the utter failure of the free market was obvious". In 2010, however, he found himself unable to support his own Tea Party candidate. It was Sharon Angle, whom Lyngar describes as "an obvious lunatic". Instead he contributed to the Rand Paul campaign. He says that within months of the Tea Party victory, he realized and regretted his mistake.
I could only watch as the people I supported inflicted massive, unnecessary pain on the economy through government shutdowns, spending cuts and gleeful cruelty.
That was the turning-point for Edwin Lyngar, the moment when he finally "got it". In 2012 he voted to re-elect President Obama while wishing there'd been a major party even more liberal than the Democrats. In so saying, Lyngar wasn't voting against conservatism but for liberalism. It wasn't a backlash, it wasn't revenge; it was an awakening. After a 20-year nightmare of misguided shame about being poor, of voting against his own interests, Edwin Lyngar woke up and became a committed liberal.

There's a keen irony in that his circumstances today are so much better in every way. After gaining his Bachelor's degree (free, courtesy of a federal program), he then used the GI Bill to get two graduate degrees. Both he and his wife are now professionals enjoying the comfortable middle class lifestyle they could barely afford to dream about when they were struggling.

After more than 20 years, Lyngar came to the realization that it was liberals who made his journey possible, not conservatives whose policies threatened his livelihood and family's security every step of the way.

Edwin Lyngar's story can be found at Salon in Why I fled libertarianism — and became a liberal and I was poor, but a GOP die-hard: How I finally left the politics of shame. He concludes the latter article with:

I wish I could take the poorest, struggling conservatives and shake them. I would scream that their circumstances or failures or joblessness are not all their fault. They should wise up and vote themselves a break. Rich people vote their self-interest in every single election. Why don’t poor people?
In relating his own history of ingrained conservative thinking accompanied by feelings of failure, guilt and shame, he answers that question with profound insight.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~☼~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Originally posted to Mopshell on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 04:53 AM PDT.

Also republished by PostHuffPost: Connection-Conversation-Community , Social Security Defenders, and Daily Kos Classics.

EMAIL TO A FRIEND X
Your Email has been sent.
You must add at least one tag to this diary before publishing it.

Add keywords that describe this diary. Separate multiple keywords with commas.
Tagging tips - Search For Tags - Browse For Tags

?

More Tagging tips:

A tag is a way to search for this diary. If someone is searching for "Barack Obama," is this a diary they'd be trying to find?

Use a person's full name, without any title. Senator Obama may become President Obama, and Michelle Obama might run for office.

If your diary covers an election or elected official, use election tags, which are generally the state abbreviation followed by the office. CA-01 is the first district House seat. CA-Sen covers both senate races. NY-GOV covers the New York governor's race.

Tags do not compound: that is, "education reform" is a completely different tag from "education". A tag like "reform" alone is probably not meaningful.

Consider if one or more of these tags fits your diary: Civil Rights, Community, Congress, Culture, Economy, Education, Elections, Energy, Environment, Health Care, International, Labor, Law, Media, Meta, National Security, Science, Transportation, or White House. If your diary is specific to a state, consider adding the state (California, Texas, etc). Keep in mind, though, that there are many wonderful and important diaries that don't fit in any of these tags. Don't worry if yours doesn't.

You can add a private note to this diary when hotlisting it:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from your hotlist?
Are you sure you want to remove your recommendation? You can only recommend a diary once, so you will not be able to re-recommend it afterwards.
Rescue this diary, and add a note:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from Rescue?
Choose where to republish this diary. The diary will be added to the queue for that group. Publish it from the queue to make it appear.

You must be a member of a group to use this feature.

Add a quick update to your diary without changing the diary itself:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary?
(The diary will be removed from the site and returned to your drafts for further editing.)
(The diary will be removed.)
Are you sure you want to save these changes to the published diary?

Comment Preferences

  •  some of us poorer people have been voting for (64+ / 0-)

    Society's Best Interests for years by writing in people like the Democrat Dennis Kucinich for President. Doesn't mean we got our wishes, but it does mean that the Dems were posting War Candidates, which some of us refuse to vote for.
        We could have had the good things we've been fighting about rolled into one candidate already:
    medicare for all-no strings attached
    decriminalization of marijuana
    peace
         I've been voting for a Democrat for years. Too bad so few would join me in voting for the policies we are supposed to say we want. For this I get pilloried and called a spoiler? C'mon Democrats, get off the corporate wagon and be who you say you are: secular liberals with a heart and soul. If you post a Corporate War Candidate in 2016, many people will be forced to vote "other".

    We are all pupils in the eyes of God.

    by nuclear winter solstice on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 05:04:49 AM PDT

    •  liberals have to compare the volume and timing of (47+ / 0-)

      their collective voice against that of 1200 think tank coordinated radio stations getting a free speech free ride from those whose interests they work against.

      that talk radio monopoly and hundreds of scripted ignorant blowhards made candidates like kucinich and single payer and legalized pot politically impossible years ago. they are louder and they are ubiquitous and unfortunately, liberals and their orbs who ignore that fact are wasting a lot of time and effort and resources.

      i'll bet the entire country would go ten points right if the left would get serious about talk radio with picketing of radio stations instead of useless protests at state capitols, getting colleges to stop endorsing hundreds of rw radio stations, and knowing what they'r essaying so politicians and media are shamed when they repeat that think tank bullshit.

      talk radio's the tail and it's wagging america and the left ignores it.

      This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

      by certainot on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 05:33:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  orbs not orbs, and ten point LEFT (17+ / 0-)

        This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

        by certainot on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 06:01:13 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I was assuming you meant (15+ / 0-)

          ten points LEFT not right! It was the only way it made sense!

          Please note that lamps in the Magic Lamp Emporium are on a genie time-share program so there may be a slight delay in wish fulfillment. (◕‿◕)

          by Mopshell on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 06:09:23 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  i gotta be more careful (13+ / 0-)

            that was my conceptual dyslexia but also my keyboard is getting old and the new mavericks OS for mac is checking all my spelling and making guesses - i know i can  turn that off but it also has benefoots.....

            This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

            by certainot on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 06:15:08 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  All rich people don't vote their interests (4+ / 0-)

            For many years nearly all the Wall St types were Dems. Even Jamie Dimon states clearly in public that he is a Democrat. It was only when some Democrats started talking about taxing carried interest as ordinary income that the Wall St types started to fund Republicans in a significant manner. Even still my guess is that it is about half and half. One of the largest donors, and bundlers, for President Obama was Steve Pagliuca, the Managing Partner of Bain Capital (Mitt Romney's old job).

            "let's talk about that" uid 92953

            by VClib on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 02:47:57 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Wall St donations to Democrats may have been (3+ / 0-)

              to discourage adverse taxation and regulation rather than ideology.

              I wonder if Republicans in office would be as anti-teacher union as the are if 40% of their campaign contributions went to Republicans.

              Sen Schumer is a powerhouse in Senate Democrats because of his huge funding from Wall Street.  I have yet to see him act against the interests of Wall Street.  

              The most important way to protect the environment is not to have more than one child.

              by nextstep on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 05:39:31 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Rich entertainers/creative types are mostly Dems (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              isabelle hayes, Dirtandiron

              They are voting against their financial self interest
              but maybe creative brains are wired to recognize a larger self interest', maybe in a larger sense of "self".

              I've read so many studies in the differences between rich and others in psychological testing and even brain functioning because it fascinates me. I've wondered why rich entertainers/writers etc aren't like the others. I think it has to do with creativity.
              It isn't just maybe they grew up not rich. The differences in attitudes and behaviors come very quickly...
              but this isn't the place to get into the testing.

              It is puzzling though because even selfish self interest should tell a rich person if everyone is doing better, if society is better, it is better for them.

              I am not at all religious but the bible has some good lines. Love of money is the root of really bad stuff.

              •  No they aren't. (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Vetwife, Dirtandiron

                Anyone with stocks or stock funds should vote democrat. Would you rather have the returns of the Obama and Clinton years  or the Bush years?  It is only the super rich who enjoy the perks of the tax code who benefit from voting republican.

              •  Maybe the creative types set out to create things (0+ / 0-)

                rather than become rich? Maybe that's the difference?

                Where are all the jobs, Boehner?

                by Dirtandiron on Fri Jul 18, 2014 at 09:28:52 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  There is a Huge difference of "Being" between some (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Aileen Cheetham, kanawah

                  one who is Creative, or not.  
                  "Creativity & Gifts" come from a different place than "Skills."

                  Creative sorts, tend to reach deep into their FEELINGS & are mastering abilities to Connect to more immense and spatial places & concepts.

                  "Skills," as in someone adept at playing the stock market, or the corporate type is a more mundane & therefore myopic focus of how the game of Life is played.

                  Different stakes.

                  When the stakes are self-serving, the republican mentality emerges.  Or the unevolved person just never questioned the Consensus, such as religious constructs...

                  Creative types, abundantly those of us marked as 'Liberals" &/ 'Progressives,' tend to have vaster vision & clarity.

                  I strive to be the burr in every repug's saddle.

                  by AriesAmiga on Sat Apr 25, 2015 at 12:36:04 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  the entertianiers and creative types (0+ / 0-)

                vote democratic because they know the teabags want to regulate what they "produce".  They vote for creative freedom.

            •  Wall Street voted democratic (0+ / 0-)

              when they were "civilized".  Now they are "they wolves of Wall Street" they vote for the fascist wing of the teabag republican party.  They used to be concerned about their clients.  Now they are only interested in enriching themselves.

              We need a strong democratic administration that will put a choke collar on them.

            •  Wall St. not voting it's interests (0+ / 0-)

              According to Thomas Frank in "The Wrecking Crew", most of corporate America (including Wall St) began to be convinced to vote and support their own interests during the time Reagan was in office.  Lobbyists started persuading corporate CEO's that by hiring "conservative" firms, corporations would start to get the results they had been wanting.  "Successful" lobbying convinced even formerly Democratic heads of companies to move to the right.

              It was also during this time that the Republican Party started putting together youth groups, from which to hire staff for the DC offices ~ experience be dammed!  After all, isn't government a bumbling, ineffective organization?

              In addition, the great purge of agency talent began.  A form of loyalty testing was given to all employees in all agencies, and those not deemed sufficiently conservative were replaced by proven conservative supporters.  It didn't matter how well an employee had done the job, or how long that person had worked under both Republican and Democratic Presidents, if he/she was not perceived to be conservative enough, out he went.  Then the right began appointing loyal contributors to head the agencies, with absolutely no consideration given to experience, or lack there of.  Note, for example, Michael Brown, a horse commissioner, was appointed to head FEMA before Katrina.

      •  Why do you think the left is ignoring this? (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Mopshell, Jon Sitzman, certainot

        Too polite?

        "No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money." -- JC, Matthew 6:24

        by Chi on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 07:36:54 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Could it be our own form of elitism? (14+ / 0-)

          For the longest time I thought talk radio would just die out because I can't fucking stand to listen to hardly any of it, including liberal talk radio. I prefer music. Especially while driving.

          I think the left may ignore the truck driving community who spend hours and days listening to radio.  Not to mention my own ignorance that people commuting for hours listen to talk radio (instead of music).

          •  The national party kicked Dr. Dean to the kerb (11+ / 0-)

            abandoned the 50-state strategy, and started doubling down on the woman-hate, union-hate, public-school-hate, immigrant-hate, and racebaiting that "won" elections for the Gee O Pee.

            Elitism my fanny. It's The STUPID, stupid.

            LBJ, Van Cliburn, Ike, Wendy Davis, Lady Bird, Ann Richards, Barbara Jordan, Molly Ivins, Sully Sullenburger, Drew Brees: Texas is NO Bush League!

            by BlackSheep1 on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 09:40:13 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  dean was another talk radio swift boating trophy (8+ / 0-)

              that scream was no big deal if those 1000 radio stations hadn't given it major buzz. same as expensive haircuts  (gore), etc.

              woman-hate, union-hate, public-school-hate, immigrant-hate, and racebaiting
              that describes 5 of rw radio's daily functions- it moves the perceived center to the right and makes them 'acceptable'
               through sheer volume and unchallenged ubiquity.

              This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

              by certainot on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 12:05:08 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Clinton neoliberals (0+ / 0-)

              Howard Dean, Sen. Sanders, Alan Grayson, Elizabeth Warren, Deb Wasserman-Schultz, etc., began as powerful spokespeople about our poverty crisis. They all then abruptly jumped on the Middle Class Only bandwagon. While Republicans seem to excel in hate speech, it is the Democratic Party that targeted the poor. The media marketed to liberals wave the banner for the middle class (with an occasional pat on the head to the working poor). We're deep in an era of middle class elitism, and the masses of poor (and those who understand why unrelieved poverty matters) have been completely alienated.

              •  The Democrats are fighting (4+ / 0-)

                to get a higher minimum wage - ref Rep Grayson this week - and that is certainly championing the working poor. Also, all assistance programs for the welfare of the people have been proposed by Democrats.

                Please note that lamps in the Magic Lamp Emporium are on a genie time-share program so there may be a slight delay in wish fulfillment. (◕‿◕)

                by Mopshell on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 07:47:08 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  I wouldn't call Dean, Sanders, Grayson and Warren (0+ / 0-)

                neoliberals. Neoliberals was a term coined to mean "laissez-faire", zero regulation, no taxes, for the rich libertarianism. You know, modern Republicanism.

                Where are all the jobs, Boehner?

                by Dirtandiron on Fri Jul 18, 2014 at 09:31:01 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  Helping the middle class IS helping the poor. (0+ / 0-)

                For one thing, it helps keep middle class families from JOINING the ranks of the poor.  Also, middle class and lower being able to spend more revitalizes the economy, making more jobs for the poor, and making (some) employers of lower income employees feel a little more generous (or at least less resistant) about raising their wages, while generating bigger tips for employees in the service industries.  And finally, since middle class donors are less selfish with gifts to charity programs than the rich are (statistically; I know we can point to a number of generous billionaires), there is more help available for those who are truly poor.

                For decades, the right, controlled by a small group of super rich and selfish people, have presented poor PEOPLE, not poverty itself, as a threat to the middle class, implying that "lazy" poor people are stealing from us, when in fact the super rich and corporations are stealing far more from the middle class (AND FROM THE POOR) than the poor receive in public assistance.  THEY would like to present the agenda of progressive taxation and public investment as being middle class against poor, so as to keep the poor from joining forces with the middle class against them.

        •  mainly because there's no way to read what they're (8+ / 0-)

          blasting the country with.

          it gives us headaches to listen to it and it escapes analysis so while it dominates politics and media in many ways it's basically invisible to the left, media analysts, political observers.

          dems in every state should be recording and transcribing the main local talkers before they can actually say they're getting their reps' backs.

          we need to know what the think tanks are pumping out while they're doing  it otherwise we just keep getting left behind, reacting after the lies become truth. the dem party and or the major progressive groups need to do something like that.

          here's  a diary wrote that describes a way to record and transcribe talkers and while the recording of multiple talkers at once can be automated, we need software to automate the transcription  process.

          This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

          by certainot on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 11:57:16 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  The Left talk radio got axed (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Jon Sitzman, Mopshell, mkor7, Dirtandiron

          I used to listen to Thom Hartmann, Air America, Stephanie Miller... but the station dropped them all.. they are still around.. (not Air America, I don't think) but.. not broadcasted on any of my local radio markets...

          •  Liberal radio got axed all over the country (10+ / 0-)

            Even in liberal towns like Seattle there is nothing to the left of NPR.  Norman Goldman, an idiot who was on the Seattle station insisted it was an economic decision, and right wing radio would soon follow.  That's nonsense, of course, it was a political decision, and RW radio continues unabated.  Portland has a new one now, funded via crowdfunding, and hopefully immune from corporate politics.  That's the only way liberal radio will make it.

            Be bold. Be courageous. Americans are counting on you. Gabby Giffords.

            by Leftleaner on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 02:25:31 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  right is going very strong w/radio now for 2014 (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Bluefin, Mopshell, Dirtandiron

            and attacking liberal radio

            they're closing stations and where they can they're applying economic pressure on the rest

            the boycott is their excuse, even for blue areas dominated by rw radio with NO liberal radio.

            the market based argument is total BS. advertisers may be leaving ALL talk radio but there's no proportionality or honesty about what's going on - it's as if "they're all the same" wasn't total bullshit.

            all the left has to do to open up stations for liberal talkers is take rw radio seriously and challenge it like the bully on the pulpit calling 'you' slut/thief/traitor all day long needs to be stood up to.

            dems and the left need to push colleges to find alts for their sports and the entire monopoly will collapse. over 28% of limbaugh stations depend on college sports. get them to honor their mission statements and look for apolitical alts and rw radio will collapse.

            This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

            by certainot on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 06:35:40 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  I live in a "blue state" that went for Obama, (0+ / 0-)

            Kerry, Gore, Clinton, etc. so millions of Democratic, but yet to hear Thom Hartmann I have to subscribe to satellite. That is not a business decision by the media, it's a political propaganda decision.

            Where are all the jobs, Boehner?

            by Dirtandiron on Fri Jul 18, 2014 at 09:33:30 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  The "left" (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          isabelle hayes

          (at least, as seen via media) took a right turn during the Clinton administration, and has embraced a solidly bourgeois philosophy. The media marketed to liberals stand in solidarity with middle class consumers and campaign donors, and are oblivious to our poverty crisis. The last time the US was in such a deep economic crisis, the middle class and poor, workers and the jobless, ultimately united to push back, to everyone's benefit. That can't happen this time.

          •  can't happen this time because the left lets (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Dirtandiron

            those think tanks blast the country with an alternate reality and create made to order constituencies that think they benefit by protecting the 1%.

            and you continue to attack democrats and not republicans, while pretending to be part of the 'left'

            This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

            by certainot on Fri Jul 18, 2014 at 07:36:16 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Could it be that they are not ignoring this (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Dirtandiron

          but we are not hearing them loudly or often enough? Also, they are being criticized by the right constantly and we can't help but hear that.

          Human beings are, inevitably, human. We tend to be more critical of our own because:

          ♦ there's little chance of losing them (as in emotionally stable families, we love them but don't always like them and feel freer about showing it because they aren't going to disown us, this is even more true of our political party because they need us. We are better behaved in our workplace because there we know we're replaceable.)

          ♦ we take to heart criticism of favored person/s because we want them to be as close to our ideal of them as possible in order to validate our favoring them and/or justify our favoring of them in the eyes of others.

          Neither of these is right or wrong, they just are human.

          Please note that lamps in the Magic Lamp Emporium are on a genie time-share program so there may be a slight delay in wish fulfillment. (◕‿◕)

          by Mopshell on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 07:42:59 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Why is the Left ignoring This? (0+ / 0-)

          The Left has been bought and paid for, just like the Right.  Even though most Democrats attempt to sound like they still represent the American people, in reality they are just as surely in the pockets of corporate America as their brethren on the Right.  Follow the actual voting records, to see for whom "our representatives" are placing their "bets".  Most often, it isn't for us!

      •  I don't just hate Clear Channel because they force (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Dirtandiron, certainot

        their blimpalicious hateraudio onto the airwaves, but because, per last month's Texas Monthly cover story, they won't play George Strait anymore.

        LBJ, Van Cliburn, Ike, Wendy Davis, Lady Bird, Ann Richards, Barbara Jordan, Molly Ivins, Sully Sullenburger, Drew Brees: Texas is NO Bush League!

        by BlackSheep1 on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 09:38:36 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  El Cucuy has the #1 rated show in some big cities (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        AoT, Dirtandiron, Jon Sitzman

        - Poor people don't vote as often as rich people.

         - Many poor people are still socially conservative.

        "states like VT and ID are not 'real america'" -icemilkcoffee

        by Utahrd on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 09:39:42 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  You're putting the cart before the horse (4+ / 0-)

        The backlash to the social revolution of the '60's drove the rise of the self defeating conservative movement among people who would have been Trade Unionists or even Socialists a generation earlier. It's a manifestation of what Veblen called the Instinct towards Respectability. Now that the right has gotten so rabid, it is loosing the respectability factor, hence the rise of so-called "Independents", people with too much respectability to go to the Democrats. Now is the time for the Democrats to try to make some hay off of their alienation before the Tea Party launches their own party and those "Independents" breath a sigh of relief and return to the Republican fold.

        •  reagan killed the fairness doctrine & a new period (4+ / 0-)

          in politics started. after 1987 they started buying up the talk radio monopoly.

          going back before 1987 to explain the current disfunctionality in con land is unnecessary. the tea party IS the talk radio party. before that there were rational and moderate republicans and those are a lot of the ones calling themselves (respectable) independents now.

          the GOP knows they can get a lot of those votes back if they keep demonizing dems and obama, and their most effective tool for that is still rw radio, ignored by the left. that's why they will keep doing it.

          unfortunately too many on the left don't recognize rw radio as the main cause of the loon takeover of the GOP and some urge dems to move right to pick them up.

          garbage. all the left has to do is recognize rw radio as the major factor it is,monitor and measure it's contribution, and stop allowing media and politicians to get away with evoking the think tanks' talk radio gods.

          BTW, there's a very close correlation between the rise of ALEC, the beginning of the most partisan congressional period in recent history (in the last century), and the rise of rw radio in the early 90s.

          considering the time lost on global warming the lefts ignorance on talk radio is the biggest political mistake in history.

          This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

          by certainot on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 04:20:35 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I can see you are very passionate about this (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            certainot, ekoh

            At least we can agree that Ronnie's finger prints are all over this one. Woke up this morning thinking about how the Carter administration tried to start the response to global warming before we even knew about it and Reagan stopped all that. He will certainly go down in history as the architect of the end of modern civilization.

            I think we can also agree that talk radio is instrumental in the rise of the use of intimidation and hysteria to magnify the impact of the conservative message. Where we seem to diverge is when the problem started and how to deal with it. I think the way we cover talk radio now just amplifies the message, that there are structural reasons that reasonable people can't respond in kind and that the principle of "you can't fool all the people all the time" is working against the brown shirts.

            •  i hope you're right, but global warming doesn't (0+ / 0-)

              give us much time for it to just fade away. they'r upping their subsidy of rw radio and the attack on liberal radio to make up for the boycotts because they know how important it is.

              I think the way we cover talk radio now just amplifies the message
              i think they've been successful (wildly) because the passive and authoritarian brains they reach all over the country don't see anyone getting in their gods' faces within that world they dominate. they're invisible. many too-busy and apathetic americans detached from politics until the elections are influenced but the true believers around election time. and most don't see the fact checking and corrections that do happen until too late, if at all.

              if there's a pile of shit under the rug it helps to lift the rug

              This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

              by certainot on Sat Jul 19, 2014 at 03:31:09 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  You can't go head to head (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                certainot

                with someone who isn't going to face you.

                I've been thinking about what you've said, and the way I see it there is a population of people who listen to the radio, regardless, and these people have had no spoken word entertainment beyond right wing talk. Some of those people could be peeled off if more progressive infotainment alternatives were made available. However, looking at the internet, the hard core right wing nuts react to debunking with more irrationality. They don't like feeling stupid, and they would rather be stupid than feel stupid. In fact, they will watch Rachel Maddow just to get their own indignation cranked up.

                A long time ago I worked in a library and when I was reading instead of working I saw a study in which people were tested for political attitudes. Then they were exposed to satirical critiques of progressive or conservative ideas. When retested, people's attitudes towards progressives shifted to the right in response to ridicule. However, attitudes towards the conservative position were not affected. This is the impact of the instinct towards respectability, but now we have a window of opportunity in which the "conservatives" are loosing their position as the respectable party, and satire and ridicule can have an impact on people in the middle.

                It might be worth it to try to get the fairness doctrine reenacted to break up the scheduling. Things like sponsor boycotts do work and are very worth doing. I would also like to see much more scrutiny of the use of Fox news as command and control centers for violent actions like the Bundy ranch fiasco with maybe a little "who is this foreigner injecting himself in our politics?" jingoism.

                What really drives me nuts is when some "progressive" host on MSNBC has on an expert who debunks some standard conservative lie. Then, on the next segment, someone will repeat the lie, and the host doesn't interrupt and say, "I was just talking to a guy who totally debunked that."

                •  respectability and acceptability (0+ / 0-)

                  one of rw radio 's main functions is to use volume and repetition to establish lies as truth. the acceptability of the alternate reality they use to establish their respectability depends on the left not knowing what rw radio is selling and not challenging it.

                  maybe more than 25% of rw radio stations (more than 28% of limbaugh stations, the total for all stations may be closer to 40%) depend heavily on state funded public university and college sports. that is a main source of respectability for them in our communities. when they lie and work for the 1% many of the loudest stations in the country do it with college sports logos on them.

                  i think rw radio would not survive if americans decided it was unacceptable that our state funded universities keep rw radio going. our universities deciding to look for non political alts would seriously harm republican loon acceptability/ respectability.

                  This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

                  by certainot on Mon Jul 21, 2014 at 01:48:33 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Have you considered starting a petition? (0+ / 0-)

                    The "universities for Rush Limbaugh" page is very interesting. Have you considered starting a petition at one of the petition sites? I would sign it.

                    •  there have been some petitions. the one for NC (0+ / 0-)

                      got pretty big i think, but they need a lot of follow up, and the blowhards are louder in a community.

                      methinks students faculty and alum have to get really serious with protests, holding back donations, etc. the problem is convincing people that talk radio is a problem. lot of folks here even still think it's just an inconvenient fact of politics that just needs to be ignored and it will blow away eventually.

                      i'm joining that site into another generalized talk radio site that includes how to record and transcribe talkers with snowtape and dragon dictate http://www.dailykos.com/...  - so there will be a record of what these bums are saying and it will be harder for universities to squirm out of doing something

                      This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

                      by certainot on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 01:00:39 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

          •  Reagan Killed the Fairness Doctrine... (0+ / 0-)

            Talk radio is deliberately not being challenged by our Dem representatives because, if we follow the actual Dem voting records we quickly discover their votes also go according to corporate wishes.

            As to the Dems having the ability to "stop allowing" the conservative take-over of the airwaves, we need to recognize that those stations are all owned by corporations, and that big business supports all Corporate interests in the country today.  Once we accept that 99% of our representatives (BOTH Dem and Repub) have been bought and paid for by those corporations we can understand there is no motivation by anyone to change the status quo.

        •  Yes, the Leisure Class wannabes eom (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Dirtandiron

          Back off, man. I'm a logician.—GOPBusters™

          by Mokurai on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 11:38:45 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  No "collective liberal voice" (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Dirtandiron

        What we have had for years is the middle class vs. the poor, workers vs. the jobless. There's certainly nothing liberal about maintaining that only those who are of current use to employers/the corporate state are worthy of the most basic human rights of food and shelter. When was the last time you heard some self-described "bold progressive" call for poverty relief for all those who have been left behind -- the unemployable and all those whose jobs have been shut down and shipped out? The last I heard, there are 7 jobs for every 10 people who urgently need one. What would be a liberal response to this crisis?
        (Hint: Another 30+ yrs of merely calling for job creation probably won't change anything.)

        •  every time dems propose anything the criminal GOP (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Mopshell, sebastianguy99, Dirtandiron

          obstructs

          This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

          by certainot on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 06:42:45 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  At which point (0+ / 0-)

            The Dems then vote for the right wing agenda. It's very enlightening to spend a weekend researching how Dems in Congress have voted on the various issues. When "worse comes to worse," they ensure that just enough Democrats are absent (from the vote) to enable the right wing agenda to keep being rolled out. You might be surprised by the record of the votes actually cast by some who are called "bold progressives."

            •  bull. how come you never criticize republicans? (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Mopshell, sebastianguy99

              all you ever do, looking at your other comments, seems to be that you try to convince us that democrats behave like republicans.

              if i didn't know better i'd have to conclude you were trying to say "they're both the same", which is usually said by republicans, who have nowhere to go but up, and/or why vote for democrats at all?

              if that case you almost fit the definition of troll

              This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

              by certainot on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 07:43:14 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  Pushing for unemployment benefits (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          sebastianguy99

          to be extended but thwarted by a Republican-dominated House?

          Please note that lamps in the Magic Lamp Emporium are on a genie time-share program so there may be a slight delay in wish fulfillment. (◕‿◕)

          by Mopshell on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 07:54:11 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Fear's a possibility why some joes w/ jobs vote RW (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          CatKinNY

          In my earlier years when I was starting out in my life as a Navy brat following my parents around wherever my father got stationed, and while I was attending high school and later, college, I've had to work part-time for low-paying service sector employers in different parts of the country that implied (or outright declared) that you would get a bad performance evaluation or you wouldn't have a job any more if management discovered on the grapevine that you voted for non-conservatives on the local ballot or if you didn't vote for the conservative candidate or conservative incumbent of their choice.  

          If anyone filed a formal complaint, some asserted that management have proven tactics of legally deny it, while using redirection by turning the issue against their low-on-the-totem-pole accusers, of saying their firing was justified because they repeatedly violated some kind of known rule in their job. For example, the person that file the complaint with a government office that dealt with wage and labor rules, the company says in their defense that the laborer clocked in late three times over the past 12 months.  The complainant was warned, he or she came in late again, so the boss had no choice but to terminate. Thus, it makes it appear as if the complainant was fabricating a lie to fault an innocent employer, just to be vengeful.

          Laborers, faced with such threats of the loss of their job, would either vote for management's choice of candidates and brag about it so their bosses would hear of it ...or the workers wouldn't vote at all and say nothing except it was safer to stay out of getting involved in politics.

          Here's other valid reasons why the working class will vote against their interests. Systematic and continual manipulation.

          Excerpts:

          As Phil Agre wrote in this much discussed article about the definition of conservatism, "Conservatism is the domination of society by an aristocracy ... [it] is incompatible with democracy, prosperity and civilization in general. It is a destructive system of inequality and prejudice that is founded on deception and has no place in the modern world."

          Modern conservatism's most successful strategy was to merge public relations and politics into a seamless operation in which it could use modern marketing methods to convince people to vote against their own interests. In that sense, right-wing populism is just another marketing campaign for the aristocrats.

          http://www.alternet.org/...

      •  Also I wonder about the sponsors (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        certainot, Dirtandiron

        I  listen to a large am station here.  Owned by Clear Channel.  They carry stuff like Rush , Hannity, and the local wannabees.  Its a 50k watt station that has a sister station of same size about 120 miles away so the whole state, Iowa, is saturated with this stuff.  Any way the local guy was ranting why the government should not be pushing for universal broadband.  ( I still cant get hard wired broadband here) because my large phone company wont invest in the equipment needed.  However a small locally owned company just a few miles away is putting in fiber to everyone place, even to farms miles away.  So after the local guy went to break, they had advertisement for a company that sells a service to tweak your computer to work better.  What made me laugh was that you need broadband to use their service.  Then while driving one night, I was listening to the Hannity show and they were raving about more drilling , fracking and coal.  They said our country was built using fossil fuels and basically solar and wind power would ruin the country.  That was followed up by a commercial for My Solar Co.  Don't these advertisers realize that after hearing the shows hosts and guests bash the areas of commerce they are engaged in,  they are wasting their money buying time on their stations?  Somebody needs to explain to these folks that they are paying to be kicked in the ass.

        •  yeah, it's stupid. there are tons of those egs lil (0+ / 0-)

          like window companies selling efficiency who's business would would skyrocket if we got serious about energy/global warming retrofitting etc.

          no tot mention the incredible and absurd disconnect with all the colleges allowing these stations to use their sports logos while selling privatization and defunding of public ed, attack on teachers and science, etc.

          crazy

          This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

          by certainot on Fri Jul 18, 2014 at 07:42:33 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  "Republican Noise Machine"-David Brock-2004 (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        certainot, Dirtandiron

        It started in the 70's, by labeling news as "liberal", demanding equal time (lies vs. truth). "How the Right has sabotaged Journalism, Democracy and Truth"
        The best book I ever read on how it started, who did it, which forms it has taken, etc.
        Fascinating
        You will have few questions on the subject after you read it. David Brock worked for them before he turned on them and wrote his first book, "Blinded by the Right", then this one.
        Seriously-a Must Read for people interested in the details.

        In 2010-37% of eligible American voters voted for their U.S. Reps. (Census) The 1% is not taking this country from us. We are giving it to them.

        by Incredulousinusa on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 09:35:23 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  So Kucinoch would've been a dictator? (10+ / 0-)

      Because none of those things you discuss can happen without Congress.

      IMO Presidents can only be somewhat more liberal in practice than the Congress they're working with.

      While you dream of Utopia, we're here on Earth, getting things done.

      by GoGoGoEverton on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 07:05:33 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  waaaaa (14+ / 0-)
      For this I get pilloried and called a spoiler?
      Golly! Your feelings!  Except that Kucinich himself thinks you're a spoiler.  He asked his supporters to vote for the Democratic nominee in the general election.  

      I'm with you.  Let's nominate the best Democrat we can.  But letting the Republicans win in the general election has never actually helped in that regard and has cost uncounted innocent lives.  

      When truth is only a matter of opinion, advantage goes to the liars.

      by Sun dog on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 07:32:21 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Truth spoken: (15+ / 0-)
        I'm with you.  Let's nominate the best Democrat we can.  But letting the Republicans win in the general election has never actually helped in that regard and has cost uncounted innocent lives.
        Fighting the good fight for the progressive candidate of your choice (at all levels) is essential and correct.  Understanding that the world and its inhabitants aren't perfect, and using the tools we wind up having to do what good we can is also essential and correct.

        Vote your heart when you can.  Vote the ticket when you have to.  Not voting, or voting unwinnably (to all purposes the same thing) isn't rebellion or a candle held aloft in darkness - it's surrender, and a willingness to allow what light there is to be extinguished.

        Not all people are human; not all humans are people.

        by Jon Sitzman on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 09:12:33 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Who? (0+ / 0-)

        If you're referring to the 2016 presidential election, the Dem candidate will, of course, be VP Joe Biden. H. Clinton is simply marketing a book, and the Dem Party knows that she would have no chance against Biden, much less in the election for president. While (weirdly) heavily promoted in the media marketed to libs, I think most voters are aware of Clinton's long record of support for the right-wing agenda (for NAFTA before she was against it, a solid war-hawk, etc., etc.).  The masses who voted for Obama in hopes that he could launch a legit public discussion about our poverty crisis have been completely alienated by the Democrats ever since, and this will have a big impact on the 2016 elections.

        •  I don't think you're grasping this (0+ / 0-)

          Your numbers are just off.  You're obviously projecting personal opinions and perspective onto larger populations that don't exist.  When you say "The Dem party" you're talking about a small minority of Democrats who have somehow come to represent the whole party for you. I  don't know of anyone in the party, actually, who claims what your "Dem party" believes.  

          The "most voters" must also be based on something personal and not the actual polling numbers.  If you want to look at the country as a whole, "most people" list Clinton as being quite liberal and even among Democrats it's only a minority who would object to this classification.  Maybe you're imagining dkos to be representative of the larger population?

          When truth is only a matter of opinion, advantage goes to the liars.

          by Sun dog on Fri Jul 18, 2014 at 06:57:47 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Perception vs Reality (0+ / 0-)

            I agree that most people would list Hillary as being very liberal - that is one of the major successes of Fox News and talk radio. They have defined her as the epitome of ivory-tower, elite, out-of-touch with "Real America" liberalism.

            However, this perception is not in touch with reality. When you vote for the Iraq War, the Patriot Act,support the death penalty and three-strikes laws, and then retire to give six-figure speeches to Goldman Sachs executives, it's hard to seriously consider your actions "liberal."

    •  You... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Dirtandiron, SilentBrook, Vetwife

      are part of the problem. By voting for write-in candidates you are helping elect Republicans. That is just a fact.

      In the end, everything comes back to politics... without the political will (forced by the masses) nothing changes.

      by lezlie on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 12:17:25 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  (cough) NADER (cough) (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Dirtandiron, SilentBrook

        America's LAST HOPE: vote the GOP OUT in 2014 elections. MAKE them LOSE the House Majority and reduce their numbers in the Senate. Democrats move America forward - Republicans take us backward and are KILLING OUR NATION!

        by dagnome on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 01:45:09 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Lieberman? choke, harf, spew. Gore? no thanks. (0+ / 0-)

          We are all pupils in the eyes of God.

          by nuclear winter solstice on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 06:13:06 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  so, you LIKED Dubya? (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Mopshell, sebastianguy99, Dirtandiron

            I'm confused...

            America's LAST HOPE: vote the GOP OUT in 2014 elections. MAKE them LOSE the House Majority and reduce their numbers in the Senate. Democrats move America forward - Republicans take us backward and are KILLING OUR NATION!

            by dagnome on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 07:07:30 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Evidentally (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              nuclear winter solstice

              In Gore v. Bush, it was a matter of trying to guess who was worse -- at least, for those who aren't as well-off as the middle class.  The poor largely voted third party or withheld their votes, and the middle class elected and re-elected Bush.

            •  no I didn't, but W didn't WIN, either, so stop (0+ / 0-)

              blaming people who did vote against W, even if it wasn't for the EstablishmentDemocrat candidate.

              Isn't that interesting: people keep blaming people like myself,  who voted for a democrat, rather than holding it against Ted Olsen & co. who spread mega propaganda saying that America just couldn't wait and needed a decision (any decision, not necessarily the accurate truth) just so that we could go on. Personally I was flaming mad about that- the Republicans stole the election from all of us but so many dems would rather blame the people who voted "other".

              We are all pupils in the eyes of God.

              by nuclear winter solstice on Fri Jul 18, 2014 at 08:31:47 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I'm NOT blaming you... (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                nuclear winter solstice

                or others, like me, who voted Democratic.

                However, you must admit that without a hefty third party vote, the margin between Bush and Gore might have been without dispute, obviating the need for the recount shenanigans that went on in FL, and in SCOTUS.

                Here's the key point, on which we both agree:

                the Republicans stole the [2000] election from all of us
                Yep - they sure did, and rat-f*cked the entire country over the next 8 years.  For that reason ALONE, a Republican should NEVER AGAIN be President of the USA, and ESPECIALLY now, considering the array of total morons on their "bench".

                America's LAST HOPE: vote the GOP OUT in 2014 elections. MAKE them LOSE the House Majority and reduce their numbers in the Senate. Democrats move America forward - Republicans take us backward and are KILLING OUR NATION!

                by dagnome on Fri Jul 18, 2014 at 05:36:00 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  when you say things like "without a hefty third (0+ / 0-)

                  party vote the margin between Bush and Gore might have been without dispute" you are assuming that if I had not voted third party that I would have voted for Gore. Not true. I would not have voted for Bush either, in fact I had no choices. So I voted for the person I wanted to vote for.
                     Gore did not win my vote and even if I had been on the fence he sealed his fate by taking on Lieberman.
                      In 2016 I am hoping to vote for a Sanders/Warren ticket. Could the Democrats do that please? If the Dems put up Hillary, well I'll probably just vote for the ticket I wanted anyway because voting for her won't get me what I want which is what Sanders stands for. If dems want people to stay/be in their party, they'd better start offering what We The People want.

                  We are all pupils in the eyes of God.

                  by nuclear winter solstice on Fri Jul 18, 2014 at 07:56:22 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I"m not assuming anything (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    nuclear winter solstice

                    we are each only one vote - takes more than that to decide a national election.

                    America's LAST HOPE: vote the GOP OUT in 2014 elections. MAKE them LOSE the House Majority and reduce their numbers in the Senate. Democrats move America forward - Republicans take us backward and are KILLING OUR NATION!

                    by dagnome on Fri Jul 18, 2014 at 08:57:35 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

      •  no.All the people who insist we MUST only have two (0+ / 0-)

        parties are wrong.

        We are all pupils in the eyes of God.

        by nuclear winter solstice on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 06:12:27 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Then the ballot and primary system must change (2+ / 0-)

          I suggest you look to other countries for a better system and consider which would work the best here.

          Please note that lamps in the Magic Lamp Emporium are on a genie time-share program so there may be a slight delay in wish fulfillment. (◕‿◕)

          by Mopshell on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 07:59:08 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Approval voting would allow third parties (2+ / 0-)

            to build up a base over an issue without throwing elections to the other side. It would have allowed people who were so minded to vote for, say, Nader and Gore but not Bush in 2000, and then Gore would have won easily and taken the first available meeting about the terrorists after his inauguration. Or been briefed even before.

            Back off, man. I'm a logician.—GOPBusters™

            by Mokurai on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 11:46:33 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Absolutely (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              nuclear winter solstice

              Get rid of the electoral college - it's an outmoded system that's outlived it's usefulness. Voting should also be moved from Tuesday to weekends, both Saturday and Sunday.

              Please note that lamps in the Magic Lamp Emporium are on a genie time-share program so there may be a slight delay in wish fulfillment. (◕‿◕)

              by Mopshell on Fri Jul 18, 2014 at 12:27:35 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  Politics isn't football (0+ / 0-)

        A political party wins votes by representing (or choosing not to represent) voters. If you're a middle classer, would you vote for a party that represents only the rich, while worsening conditions for the middle class? If you're poor, would you vote for a party that represents only the middle class, while worsening conditions for the poor? All idealism aside, the two parties have a stranglehold on the White House. People can vote from among the array of third parties, if they wish to make a point, I suppose. But it makes no sense to vote for those who won't represent you.

        •  The strategy has to go deeper than that (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Dirtandiron

          Getting the Republicans to the point of implosion will require a bit of help from Democrats. After that, Progressive Democrats will be trying to split the difference with Centrists, not total loonies. After that, when people see that partially Progressive policies actually work, they might well vote for more.

          Back off, man. I'm a logician.—GOPBusters™

          by Mokurai on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 11:49:09 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Not me (2+ / 0-)

      Who are "we," and what do we want? In reality, not everyone can work, and there aren't jobs for all who urgently need one. The US shipped out a huge chunk of our working class jobs since the 1980s, and the Democrats ended poverty relief in the 1990s.  We have a poverty crisis in America. The middle class and liberals essentially told the poor to drop dead. Dems have consistently targeted the poor since the 1990s (and lib media have responded with bourgeois indifference). With the latest budget, Democrats voted with Republicans to cut food stamps to the elderly, disabled and working poor.  Again. This will have the same results in the 2016 election that targeting the poor had in the Gore vs. Bush election. It defies logic to expect the masses of poor to vote for a party that targets the poor.

      •  Infrastructure and renewable energy bills (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Dirtandiron

        would take us a long way toward full employment. Real financial regulation would take us further, as would real labor law. There is much more we could discuss. First, however, we have to throw out Republicans firmly enough for them to finish imploding, so we can carry on the negotiations without them.

        Back off, man. I'm a logician.—GOPBusters™

        by Mokurai on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 11:51:31 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Those votes are also in part (69+ / 0-)

    'I am not like those poor people' -- an identification with anyone but who you are at a given time. Being poor is so loathsome to Americans that many almost imagine themselves to be something else as the article argues out of shame. That is also in part why racism is so appealing to some. Interestingly many of the comfortable (including myself) can readily see that we are just rich because we are lucky or we or our parents got help from government at some point.

    This article is really important. Somehow this guy should be heard by those who need to hear him, but it won't happen easily.

    We have only just begun and none too soon.

    by global citizen on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 05:09:58 AM PDT

  •  I agree it won't happen easily (15+ / 0-)

    and Edwin Lyngar does too. It will be interesting to see his subsequent articles. I'm hoping he airs some ideas for getting through to the Republican poor.

    Please note that lamps in the Magic Lamp Emporium are on a genie time-share program so there may be a slight delay in wish fulfillment. (◕‿◕)

    by Mopshell on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 05:14:22 AM PDT

    •  OK (0+ / 0-)

      What would you say? Vote for the party that threw the poor off the cliff? Democrats are the ones who cut the rungs off of the proverbial ladder out of poverty.  Millions of low-wage workers are a single job loss from losing everything. How do you get a job once you no longer have a home address, phone, bus fare? There's no love for the right wing, but you have to admit that the Democrats -- between NAFTA and ending poverty relief for the jobless -- have caused more harm to the poor. With the latest budget, Dems voted to cut food stamps to the elderly, disabled, and working poor.  Again.

  •  talk radio plays a huge part in this kind of (43+ / 0-)

    dynamic and has for 25 years.

    i wonder if the guy listened to it, or listened to friends and co workers who did. nevertheless, it has a pervasive effect in most parts of the country, and the pull yourself up by the bootstraps, the rich deserve it because they work harder bullshit is part of the everyday programming.

    you'll hear it every day on limbaugh and hannity and savage and beck and levin

    This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

    by certainot on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 05:20:33 AM PDT

    •  "People are deceived en masse..." (34+ / 0-)

      "... and enlightened one at a time."

      I saw this on a bumper sticker.

      Better to hide your tax returns and be thought a crook than to release them and remove all doubt. [Adapted from Abraham Lincoln]

      by Caelian on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 06:57:17 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Reagan won 489 electoral votes with the (0+ / 0-)

      irrelevant "Fairness Doctrine" intact and while the limp one was a second banana color commentator for the Royals.

      I'm no fan of what you're talking about, talk radio was an important part of continuing the process under Clinton and it succeeded because the RW has billionaires dedicated to making reality. But, talk radio isn't to blame for America's hard right turn toward stupid.

      There is a guilty party, however. It is the American Public for being so easily manipulated.

      "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire

      by Greyhound on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 09:44:38 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  In 1968 there was a majority (0+ / 0-)

        made up of Wall Street/Country Club Republicans and Southern racists to elect Nixon. Then they added the Religious Right and the Reagan Democrats. They stole 2000, aided by gifts from Ralph Nader and the infamous butterfly ballot.

        Now there is nobody left to recruit, and voter suppression is under legal siege. We only have to take the House once in order to undo the gerrymanders and the rest of voter suppression.

        I should say there is nobody left whom the Tea Parties will permit Republicans to recruit. The RNC and the College Republicans called for outreach to women, Latinos, and others, but the Tea Parties doubled down on the hate.

        Back off, man. I'm a logician.—GOPBusters™

        by Mokurai on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 11:58:49 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Why do you all insist on overlooking the majority (0+ / 0-)

          of reality? In 1968 the leadership of both parties was the Wall Street/Country Club set, and the members of that set joined both parties, mostly determined by which their parents had supported the last time the rabble got aroused. It was the Democratic Party Leadership that chose to lose elections rather than share power. The 1968 Chicago Police Riot was not ordered by a republican.

          Then, let's completely skip the all of the '70s, '80s, and '90s, since it doesn't fit the narrative we want to push, and jump right to the next industrial fantasy I read about when I was a teenager...

          "They" didn't steal the election, "they" carried out a coup. And because the guy we wanted was born into and is a life-long member of the "they" club, he lacked the courage or commitment to call the coup, a coup, we just went along and got to here.

          You all can choose to invent any history you like, if that's what it takes to let you sleep at night, but don't insult the rest of us by presenting these absurd fantasies as representative of anything approaching reality.

          "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire

          by Greyhound on Fri Jul 18, 2014 at 12:30:01 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  the coup succeeded because we didn't (0+ / 0-)

            get in the streets in big enough numbers.

            rw radio played a very important part making the coup possible in terms on intimidating and enabling media and politicians and creating a pro coup constituency through disinformation.

            it helped legitimize the coup with excuses and rationalizations that enabled the MSM and politicians of both sides. and attacked and lied about our candidates from 1200 radio stations while most dems and liberals read the paper and sat in front of the TV.

            just as as they continue that success selling voter fraud fraud to the 50 mil weekly ear sets to enable voter suppression legislation in many states

            This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

            by certainot on Fri Jul 18, 2014 at 07:32:03 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Sufficiently ahistorical (0+ / 0-)

            as to be pointless to bandy words with you. Since you want us to believe absurdities, I have to ask what atrocities you would like us to commit.

            Back off, man. I'm a logician.—GOPBusters™

            by Mokurai on Fri Jul 18, 2014 at 09:45:59 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  so, how's the manipulating being done? (0+ / 0-)

        the other media can't sell lies like talk radio. TV and papers still maintain some 'competition'.

        the unchallenged ubiquitous repetition is what creates. the other media mostly just self censor and leave thing out.

        in this environment the rw radio monopoly is the only medium that can create most of their shit, that elevates benghazi over global warming, that convinces millions it's okay to default, that can account for the global warming denial, that can turn awol silver spooned bozos into presidents and get people like palin close to the white house.

        just listen to your local rw radio to know which way the GOP is going on any of these recent issues. listen to your local blowhards go after those border kids (limbaugh started doing that a while ago), and now try to get obama to shoot putin.

        most of the progressive losses of the last 25 years could have been prevented by eliminating their talk radio advantage because after a while they were predictable by listening to rw radio.

        the rw radio monopoly started working great for them in the early 90s. that's ALEC started making major gains and that's also when the most extreme partisanship on record started.

        considering time lost on global  warming the left's ignorance of rw radio is the worst political mistake in history.

        This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

        by certainot on Fri Jul 18, 2014 at 07:22:41 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  In addition, until recently, the GOP... (34+ / 0-)

    has done a great job of exploiting wedge issues.

    I wonder how many Southerners vote GOP because of issues such as abortion and "family values" (in spite of Vitter and Ensign and Wide Stance and the clown caught kissing on the surveillance camera and...)

    The GOP has been long adept at portraying liberals as out-of-the-mainstream, borderline commies. What god-fearing Southerner wants to be associated with that band of hooligans?

    Fortunately, I think -- or I hope, anyway -- that the gig is up. With things such as marriage equality becoming the norm, people are realizing that we liberals aren't the monsters that the opposition wants us to be.

    How about I believe in the unlucky ones?

    by BenderRodriguez on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 05:21:01 AM PDT

  •  They're Voting For Their Self Interests (67+ / 0-)

    They're voting to make the liberals stop stealing their tax money to give to undeserving poor and brown people. They're voting to make the liberals stop crushing Christianity. They're voting to make the liberals stop empowering the unions to price-out good jobs here in the country and flee offshore. They're voting to stop liberals from burdening the job creators.

    These are generally not low information voters so much as high dis information voters. Low information voters are low information because they're busy or uninterested; they're the voters that never or only infrequently show up to vote.

    Yes, every now and then a disinformed American who has an above average natural skepticism will eventually put together enough of the image of reality streaming in through scattered cracks in the facade, and realize he's been had.

    But when liberals tell each other these unrepresentative anecdotes, it's similar to the conservative anecdotes about the occasional poor and minority individual jumping impossible hurdles and bootstrapping themselves to success. All it shows is that the barrier is not perfect, it tells us nothing about the statistics that reason and the people are mostly walled off from success.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 05:26:46 AM PDT

  •  The poor people I know (37+ / 0-)

    vote for Republicans through a combination of propaganda, religious fervor, and ignorance.

    The devout think Republicans will bring God back to their daily governance. When I talk to them about religion in public school and remind them that perhaps it's not THEIR God that will be visiting their youngsters classrooms, if religion is allowed in school, they don't know WHICH religion will emerge from any particular teacher or curriculum.

    The libertarian minded poor have been successfully propagandized into thinking Republicans will free them from the shackles of big government. "Keep your government out of my Medicare" is funny to us, but they're serious. They accept government largess, but think they can keep it for themselves, and not share it with "dirty little brown people".

    I face palm every time I talk to my siblings - my sister is a born again Christian that thinks it's not at all judgmental to "correct" me when I use the Lord's name in vain.  My brother is a bigot and a gun nut that manages to scrape by because his wife makes a decent salary. He's in his forties making shit with no career beyond driving a tow truck for somebody else.

    It makes FaceBook interesting...

    We've been spelling it wrong all these years. It's actually: PRO-GOP-ANDA

    by Patriot4peace on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 05:37:21 AM PDT

    •  I always ask them... (14+ / 0-)

        ...do you want your tax money going to madrassas?

        Of course, given the SC's now very selective interpretation of the Establishment Clause, I'm sure Alito has a convoluted argument ready explaining why public money should only go to fundie Christian schools...

      "Le ciel est bleu, l'enfer est rouge."

      by Buzzer on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 05:54:08 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I have a fundie sister and bigot brother (18+ / 0-)

      with the exact same attitudes.  My sister sees no problem with constantly inquiring about the state of my soul and salvation, though I've tried to politely tell her to knock it off.  It's like there's a script in her head that she can't stop.

      Brother is a bigot and mega-conservative who lives with my mother, is on unemployment and receiving food stamps, but hates the government and those "other" people receiving the very benefits he's getting.  According to him, he's "earned" them.  

      They both vote, and they vote for Republicans/Tea Partiers exclusively.  As you can imagine, family gatherings are tedious and painful.  

      That which you manifest is before you - Enzo: "The Art of Racing in the Rain"

      by StateofEuphoria on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 07:36:24 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Would you please consider writing a diary (4+ / 0-)

        about how you came to be the liberal in your family? I think we should be understanding and learning as much as we can and people like yourself have much to tell us.

        Please note that lamps in the Magic Lamp Emporium are on a genie time-share program so there may be a slight delay in wish fulfillment. (◕‿◕)

        by Mopshell on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 09:42:39 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Try This, For One (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Dirtandiron, SilentBrook, Mopshell

        Ask your sister to read Luke 6:42 and then to please act accordingly.

        How can you say to your brother, 'Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,' when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
        You wouldn't even have to neutralize the gender.

        God's preference is for more people to be included, (not excluded through doctrine),...whenever the circle is shrinking, where people are being excluded or disliked, God is not served. -Rev. Alice Connor

        by paz3 on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 11:25:27 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Sounds like my late brother (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Dirtandiron, SilentBrook, Mopshell

        He lived in subsidized housing, but somehow he earned it and other people didn't.

        That being said, there really are lifers on government assistance. Their numbers are overstated, but they do exist. However, they cost the government less than, say, cops claiming fraudulent disability retirements.

        Hige sceal þe heardra, heorte þe cenre, mod sceal þe mare, þe ure mægen lytlað

        by milkbone on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 01:58:12 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Thay also cost a good deal less than the 1% (0+ / 0-)

          who avoid paying what little tax they owe.

          Please note that lamps in the Magic Lamp Emporium are on a genie time-share program so there may be a slight delay in wish fulfillment. (◕‿◕)

          by Mopshell on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 08:06:59 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  I'd really like to read about (0+ / 0-)

      how you came to be the liberal from a conservative family. I think there is much to learn from those like yourself.

      Please note that lamps in the Magic Lamp Emporium are on a genie time-share program so there may be a slight delay in wish fulfillment. (◕‿◕)

      by Mopshell on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 09:44:20 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It's not in my DNA (8+ / 0-)

        My "liberalization" came during the summer of 1976, when I shared a cabin with a black kid my age and we became best buddies that summer, working at a camp.

        My parents, (bigots still) were aghast at my living arrangements, and my apparent lack of concern that I seemed not to notice my cabin-mate was black.

        I realized how wrong they were, how ignorant it made them. How ignorant I had been "taught" to be.

        If they were so polar opposite wrong on that, perhaps their politics were suspect as well.

        The older I got, the more liberal I became. I see my point of view as more accepting, more open - minded, and that appeals to me. I suspected that as I neared middle age I would grow more conservative, as I acquired more "stuff" I would get more stingy about keeping my "stuff".

        Didn't happen. I feel contempt for the Tea Party crowd, and pity for the conservative poor. The conservative wealthy - I get it. They're voting for their own narrow interests, just as I had expected I would eventually....

        I'm a hippy, two generations too late. I so, so agree with the late but never to be forgotten Ben Masel who said:

        "I'm pro-choice, on everything".
        That describes my politics today. You want to get high, go ahead. You want to worship your invisible friend - feel free. Live and let live, respect each other.

        I just get bored to tears with those that wish to try and "change my mind" with their point of view.

        We've been spelling it wrong all these years. It's actually: PRO-GOP-ANDA

        by Patriot4peace on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 10:19:05 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  What is interesting (0+ / 0-)

      is the way they desribe liberals, Democrats, progressives, athiests, etc.

      According to them, we are the clueless, the ones who have been hoodwinked that bought into a liberal agenda. That includes the Gay agenda, take god out of America agenda, take your guns agenda, turn America into a Muslim nation agenda and agenda after agenda that they are super convinced, because of the liberal agenda in our public schools that indoctrinate the wee ones.

      Then we indoctrinate them further with elitist college professors that have a liberal agenda.

      They believe they are under attack and President Obama is leading the charge. The facts mean nothing. It's what they believe that matters and why the right wing lunatics keep throwing red meat for daily consumption so as to keep them "riled" up and on edge.

      They believe that we liberals are the evil ones and anyone with a "D" after their name has the same agenda.

      They cannot be reached IMHO. If it is not christianity they have a fervor about, they certainly carry a religious fervor on all the other issues.

      To them this is war and they make mention of that regularly to the new inductees.

      "We can either have democracy in this country or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." Louis Brandeis

      by wxorknot on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 04:50:54 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  It would also help... (13+ / 0-)

       ...if the Democrats weren't so corporatist that they're all but clones of the Republicans on economic issues.

       Economically struggling people need a party to vote FOR. The Dems, with their addiction to neoliberalism, aren't going to deliver the goods.

        So that leaves the social issues as the distinguishing factor.  And that's where the poor vote Republican -- especially the white working class.

        Yes, the Democrats make occasional token lip service to populism. It's almost never followed through with action  -- or even with attempts to embarrass the Republicans on these issues when the congressional numbers aren't in our favor.  Voters have noticed.

       If a high-profile Democrat would come out and say something like "There should be no such thing as working poor" and NOT have a cluster of Third Way stiffs do everything to drown him out, then maybe the Dems might start getting these votes again.

      But they don't seem to want them.
       

    "Le ciel est bleu, l'enfer est rouge."

    by Buzzer on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 05:48:19 AM PDT

  •  Some poor folks vote against their economic (31+ / 0-)

    self-interest because politics has become about cultural, rather than economic issues. Gays, guns, abortion, the right of women to even walk on the same street as men, those issues allow the oligarchs to pillage the country while no one is looking.

    SPES MEA IN DEO EST.

    by commonmass on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 05:59:19 AM PDT

  •  I wish I could rec this 1000x (17+ / 0-)

    This is EXACTLY the message that the 99% -- especially the working poor -- need to get.  And it hasn't been sinking in. Go ANYwhere in rural NC, and you see the same mystifying phenomenon happening.  People voting for the very ones who keep them pinned down.

    Thing is, there are probably tens of thousands of stories JUST like this one that go untold for the same reasons that the ones who own them voted against their own interest for so long.  Nobody likes to admit "failure".  And today, it's being hammered into us from every angle that "Failure is not an option".  (Which is why I love the new Domino's commercial that points out that in fact, failure IS an option; it's how we get better.  I still don't buy their pizza, but I like the ad.)

    So rec it up folks, this needs to be heard!

    I'll believe corporations are people when one comes home from Afghanistan in a body bag.

    by mojo11 on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 06:01:10 AM PDT

    •  Thank you mojo11 (4+ / 0-)

      I found Edwin's story so starkly honest and revealing that I wanted to write it up and share it. We need to understand and use what we learn from stories such as his.

      Please note that lamps in the Magic Lamp Emporium are on a genie time-share program so there may be a slight delay in wish fulfillment. (◕‿◕)

      by Mopshell on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 09:08:44 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I agree. Understanding motivation (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Dirtandiron, Mopshell

        is a key to understanding people.  It's ONLY one, but it's an important one.  If the policy is sound, and it benefits this person, why would they try to derail it?  Makes no sense, and we're always gobsmacked by it.

        I'll believe corporations are people when one comes home from Afghanistan in a body bag.

        by mojo11 on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 11:13:14 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  We need to talk more and more (0+ / 0-)

          about understanding people. It's really starting to irritate me when I see the same clichéd reasons given over and over again - they're too easy an answer and too superficial and taking the place of real understanding.

          Please note that lamps in the Magic Lamp Emporium are on a genie time-share program so there may be a slight delay in wish fulfillment. (◕‿◕)

          by Mopshell on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 08:16:32 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Tribal membership meets emotional needs (23+ / 0-)

    Political views are a social Velcro that create a sense of belonging.   "Us vs them" is the bread and butter of Fox News.
    When you move from right to left (or left to right), you also leave a network of friends and family, and a universe of political meaning.  
    We can attract right wing voters when we craft an outreach that appeals to the human emotional need for belonging and connection.

    If cats could blog, they wouldn't

    by crystal eyes on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 06:03:57 AM PDT

  •  People vote as their "tribe" votes (9+ / 0-)

    and that got so much worse since the Black president

    "The poor can never be made to suffer enough." Jimmy Breslin

    by merrywidow on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 06:13:14 AM PDT

  •  fewer poors vote, too many jobs, responsibilities (9+ / 0-)

    IF all the poor people voted we might see a difference

    "The poor can never be made to suffer enough." Jimmy Breslin

    by merrywidow on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 06:14:02 AM PDT

  •  Recommended reading: (7+ / 0-)

    What's the matter with Kansas?

    I'm not always political, but when I am I vote Democratic. Stay Democratic, my friends. -The Most Interesting Man in the World

    by boran2 on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 06:39:23 AM PDT

  •  religion is the glue... (15+ / 0-)

    ...that keeps the poor stuck to the Republican party.

    They don't look to see what the Republicans actually do, which is anything but following the teachings of Jesus.  They just listen to what they say, which is a lot of cynical pandering to the religious to make them think the Republicans are "God's party."  

    It's a cheap sell, but unfortunately, it works.  That's why the Bible belt is red... even though it's the least-blessed area of the country.  They vote on "faith," without looking at the results it's getting them.

    "Glenn Beck ends up looking like a fat, stupid child. His face should be wearing a chef's hat on the side of a box of eclairs. " - Doug Stanhope

    by Front Toward Enemy on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 06:48:58 AM PDT

    •  I find it very interesting (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Dirtandiron, SilentBrook, franklyn

      that Lyngar makes no reference to religion whatsoever. I don't believe it had any bearing on his conservatism. I think we box ourselves in if this is our only answer. There's a lot more to it than religion and we should be paying attention if we hope to really understand and learn from stories such as Edwin's.

      Please note that lamps in the Magic Lamp Emporium are on a genie time-share program so there may be a slight delay in wish fulfillment. (◕‿◕)

      by Mopshell on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 09:37:22 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  could be, but... (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Mopshell, Dirtandiron, SilentBrook

        ...I live in Mississippi, and I know what I see.  And the motivation I see for people voting Republican is almost 100% because of religion.  The GOP promises to ban abortion, teach "intelligent design" in schools (if they'll fund schools at all - lately the evangelicals like to "home school" to sequester their kids from "secular" kids), and put prayer back in schools (as if an activity people can do silently in their head could ever actually be stopped).  You can look at Chris McDaniel's campaign down here... it's hard to find a sentence where he's not mentioning God.  That's because he knows what drives his followers.

        Heck, you can check conservatives on Twitter.  They tend to spout almost as many Bible quotes as they do Limbaugh-isms.

        "Glenn Beck ends up looking like a fat, stupid child. His face should be wearing a chef's hat on the side of a box of eclairs. " - Doug Stanhope

        by Front Toward Enemy on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 10:51:35 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I believe you. (3+ / 0-)

          I can certainly believe this is the case in Mississippi (I've been following the McDaniel fiasco too) and other deep red states, especially those in the Bible belt. You're right that it's important to understand that.

          But there are other places where other factors also play a part and I think, in those places, we need to pay attention and not see them as a different case to that of states like Mississippi. Edwin Lyngar is from Nevada.

          Please note that lamps in the Magic Lamp Emporium are on a genie time-share program so there may be a slight delay in wish fulfillment. (◕‿◕)

          by Mopshell on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 11:10:08 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •   Some conservatives vote more out of (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        SilentBrook, Mopshell

        resentment than faith.

        Where are all the jobs, Boehner?

        by Dirtandiron on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 02:07:19 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  You've answered your own question (15+ / 0-)

    Thank you for an interesting dairy. Actually, poor people do vote their self-interest and in re-reading your dairy, I believed you touched on the reasons.  If you're poor and know you're not going to be rich money becomes less important than bolstering your shattered self-esteem and covering up your sense of shame.  Those are powerful emotions, worth far more than the abstract possibility that voting for a liberal candidate might someday change the institutions in society in such a way that you or your children might have opportunities to climb out of poverty.  

    Constance Hilliard is a professor, who blogs at Soul Wisdom: http://soul-wisdom.blogspot.com

    by Constance Hilliard on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 06:53:55 AM PDT

  •  Because the rich have better options (9+ / 0-)

    in fact, they get to choose which flavor of service they get: fuck it all 100% or "hey let's not provoke the serfs" 98%.

    Hillary does not have the benefit of a glib tongue.

    by The Dead Man on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 07:01:49 AM PDT

  •  Because (7+ / 0-)

    Rich people's self-interestss are represented in every election, usually by multiple candidates.  The self-interests of poor people are contemptupously dismissed as "purist extremism" that simply isn't "pragmatic" enough to be considered by the backers of any political party.

    Pay no attention to the upward redistribution of wealth!

    by ActivistGuy on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 07:23:27 AM PDT

  •  Don't short "feelings of failure, guilt and shame" (7+ / 0-)

    Many good moves in life are motivated by just such emotions for which a lot of people believe humans are wired. Most of us can explain our own circumstances and see, at least in the future, ways forward that are unlikely to have a connection to this or that vote. I can and have tolerated an awful lot of loss, set backs and deprivation without losing hope, gratitude, and optimism. However, I surely would have spent a lot more time in poverty and homelessness but for my own fear of "feelings of failure, guilt and shame."  When I have such feelings they're crippling and stand firmly in the way of taking positive action no matter what's happening on the outside and, what makes it worse is, you know that.  

  •  But gay Democrats who won't support homophobes (4+ / 0-)

    Get lambasted on DKos as I experienced the other day in my opposition to Travis Childers in Mississippi.

    Why should only poor people vote their self-interest while the LGBT Community is expected to support ANY Democrat and EVERY Democrat?

  •  The wealthy (3+ / 0-)

    tend to be single issue voters.

    "A lie is not the other side of a story; it's just a lie."

    by happy camper on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 07:33:06 AM PDT

  •  I think they do in a way (11+ / 0-)

    I read an article a number of months back about West Virginia or some other hard red state with high povery, high unemployment, shitty jobs, etc. The article looked into how no matter how bad things get there for people and poverty, they keep voting for far right politicians who keep deregulating and making things worse.

    Essentially, what the article found is that when people are poor and undereducated and desperate for work, they are so afriad that regulation and taxes will decrease jobs that they continually vote for a worse life.  

    So in that sense, they honestly do believe they are voting in their own self interests. Their self-interest in desperate, fear-driven, self-preservation.  It is illogical and irrational and all evidence says it is stupid and makes no sense at all...but that is human nature.  They are so afraid to lose what little they have, they will fearfully vote to make things worse thinking if they don't they will lose it all.

  •  Gawd, if we could only get (7+ / 0-)

    guys like this on TV every week.

    Just imagine the number of "conservatives" that would flip in 6 months, once they understand You don't have to be ashamed. It is NOT your fault. It CAN be fixed. And YOU can help fix it.

    "What could BPossibly go wrong??" -RLMiller "God is just pretend." - eru

    by nosleep4u on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 07:43:57 AM PDT

  •  The answer to your question is simple. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Chi, worldlotus

    They dont vote their own interests because the Democrats running for office don't and won't tell them all the reasons why they should do this.

    And they don't because their own self interests are aligned with the Republicans and they don't want any pressure on themselves to act in the interest of the poor.

  •  here's one of Lyngar's best passages (17+ / 0-)

    from the second article I was poor, but a GOP die-hard: How I finally left the politics of shame

    Government often fails because the moneyed interests don’t want it to succeed.  They hate government and most especially activist government (aka government that does something useful).  Their hatred for government is really disdain for Americans, except as consumers or underpaid labor.
    Bingo!!!!!!

    "If men were angels, no government would be necessary." James Madison, Federalist #51

    by history first on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 08:00:27 AM PDT

  •  Thanks for this insightful story. (4+ / 0-)

    Do I remember you are one of our HuffPo refugees? Glad you are finding a welcoming home here, and thanks for your contributions.

    •  You remember rightly - (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      pixxer, Dirtandiron

      I am indeed one of the former HuffPo commenters and I'm loving my new home here at Daily Kos!

      I've also sent you an invitation to our PostHuffPost group here if you'd like to join us. (◕‿◕)

      Please note that lamps in the Magic Lamp Emporium are on a genie time-share program so there may be a slight delay in wish fulfillment. (◕‿◕)

      by Mopshell on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 09:21:29 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  dKos seems to be loving you, too :) (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Dirtandiron, Mopshell

        I just saw the invite, thanks. It's not obvious that my joining would have any effect one way or the other, mostly b/c I almost never diary, and I never have time to look at my stream to see what's been posted (it would be a dangerous thing to do - I would simply never leave the site, and would soon be fired and stop eating and stuff).

        •  I know exactly what you mean! (0+ / 0-)

          But we want the group to be where people can catch up with old friends and make new ones rather than a group of diarists. You don't have to ever write a diary to belong to our group. We encourage you to do whatever works for you.

          Incidentally, I hardly ever look at the stream either and I'm a group admin for heaven's sake! But I'm living by the group's motto - do what works for you.

          Please note that lamps in the Magic Lamp Emporium are on a genie time-share program so there may be a slight delay in wish fulfillment. (◕‿◕)

          by Mopshell on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 08:21:22 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Easy answer (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    AJayne, Norm in Chicago

    the rich know their salvation is with money
    The poor know there salvation is with gawd

    The first has a fairly good track record
    the 2nd has yet to prove itself

    money may the root of all evil
    religion is the root of ignorance

    •  It's interesting that Edwin Lyngar (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Dirtandiron, SilentBrook

      doesn't mention religion at all in his stories; I don't think it had any bearing on his conservatism. It may be that liberals are giving this clichéd answer too much attention and failing to take in other very relevant and important factors.

      Please note that lamps in the Magic Lamp Emporium are on a genie time-share program so there may be a slight delay in wish fulfillment. (◕‿◕)

      by Mopshell on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 09:24:51 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I think some of the Tea Party types are voting (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Mopshell

      more out of resentment than faith.  They DO work hard, and they hear made up stories on Fox or talk radio about welfare recipients with 7 Cadillacs, and it plays on their resentments and fears.

      Where are all the jobs, Boehner?

      by Dirtandiron on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 02:12:53 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Step #1: Stop repeating defeatist mantras. (6+ / 0-)

    The problem isn't poor people voting against their own self-interest as much as their failure to vote at all. The turnout for rich people is double the turnout of the poor. When they do turn out, Republicans are defeated.

    •  Everyone-Tell Dem Party Mgrs. to use our $ (0+ / 0-)

      to register, ID, and transport, if necessary, all poor and minorities to vote. Seems they are wasting most of it, otherwise. If they all voted, no contest. You are right, they don't vote nearly enough. Defeated, apathetic, etc. Most, if they are not RW Evangelicals, understand who is on their side; especially if they are given a nudge.

      In 2010-37% of eligible American voters voted for their U.S. Reps. (Census) The 1% is not taking this country from us. We are giving it to them.

      by Incredulousinusa on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 09:48:04 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  voting ideals rather than interests (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    worldlotus, Dirtandiron

    I remember reading an article written by some manosphere type that basically called out conservative white men voting Republican as suckers.  Because they vote for how they think things should work - while everyone else just votes for what they want - even Republican politicians have no incentive to actually do what conservative white men want because what can you do for somebody who doesn't want anything?

    Rich people want things from the government, women want things from the government, minorities want things from the government, GLBTIAQ people want things from the government, poor people want things from the government, the galaxy of special interest groups all want things from the government ... while all that conservative white men want is to make their own way, something that they believe is served by fewer laws and less social spending, not more.

    Domestic politics is the continuation of civil war by other means.

    by Visceral on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 08:34:57 AM PDT

  •  The answer to your question is not difficult (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mopshell

    but it is multifaceted. Ignorance, bigotry, apathy and a number of myths are the major reasons. For simplicity's sake lets bundle it up into stupidity. The oligarchs and the super rich have perpetuated myths such as the American Dream and the land of opportunity, so let's not touch the tax code because once we are all millionaires it will work for us too, you see? The cultural issues is their tool of "divide and conquer". In my view though the problem is not the Republicans, it is naked capitalism consuming everything in it's path, that's why you have some democrats voting with republicans on many issues. I just hope that Carl Marx was right when he said that "capitalism contains the seeds of it's own destruction".

    •  It isn't my question... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Dirtandiron

      This diary title quotes Edwin Lyngar and I was fascinated by his answer.

      Please note that lamps in the Magic Lamp Emporium are on a genie time-share program so there may be a slight delay in wish fulfillment. (◕‿◕)

      by Mopshell on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 09:30:58 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Shame... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mopshell, worldlotus, Dirtandiron

    Guilt, racism and fear.  Very powerful emotions.  The trick is get people to put those aside and look at the hard, cold facts without bias.  But that is very hard.  Even when it is in their own self interest.

    “Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.” - John Steinbeck (Disputed)

    by RichM on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 08:40:35 AM PDT

    •  People cannot "put aside" emotions. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Mopshell

      Dealing with emotions that keep people from living more fulfilled lives requires getting them to acknowledge their emotions and helping them to realize that there is more than those emotions at issue.

      We build on foundations we did not lay. We warm ourselves by fires we did not light. We sit in the shade of trees we did not plant... We are ever bound in community.-Peter Raible

      by SilentBrook on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 02:46:42 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Actually IMO...When Republicans are unhappy "TH... (6+ / 0-)

    Actually IMO...When Republicans are unhappy "THEY VOTE." When Democrats are unhappy they "DON'T VOTE." Anyone else see this as an issue?

  •  The phrase better late than never seems to apply (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mopshell, Dirtandiron

    here.

  •  One down, 132 million to go. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dirtandiron

    *

    •  It's more than one. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Dirtandiron

      Take note of how many commenting at Daily Kos tell of their conservative families - those commenters all turned away from conservatism to liberalism. We should be asking them to tell their stories so we can understand and learn more about this.

      Please note that lamps in the Magic Lamp Emporium are on a genie time-share program so there may be a slight delay in wish fulfillment. (◕‿◕)

      by Mopshell on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 09:29:26 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The vietnam war did it for me. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Dirtandiron, Mopshell

        Once I realized the war was wrong, then I woke up to civil rights.  Then when RFK ran, it was economic justice.  Finally I started studying economics and finance and realized that trickle down economics was a lie.

        I vote democrat not only because its the right thing to do for the country, but its also in the best interest of my stock funds.

  •  The Politics of Shame! (4+ / 0-)

    That's something I never considered but this rings true.  Just look at how Republicans defend the greedy.  They attempt to make people feel like they should be ashamed of being "jealous of the wealthy".  Total bullshit!  It has nothing to do with jealousy but with righteous outrage at the injustice of wealth consolidation at the top.

    More people need to wake up before we can get anything going.  They need to look hard at their value system.  Don't allow yourself to be defined by others.

    "The real wealth of a nation consists of the contributions of its people and nature." -- Riane Eisler

    by noofsh on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 09:30:58 AM PDT

    •  To make people feel "ashamed of being jealous (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Mopshell

      of the wealthy."  How interesting.  I've never read that or heard it stated, just like that, as if it were one of their commonly used tools.  But I've had it tried on me, and it was infuriating.  It literally made me see red, and I'm pretty unflappable.  Instantly I knew I'd been manipulated in a very low-down way, as we say around here.  

      A book must be the axe for the frozen sea within us. Franz Kafka

      by wordwraith on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 06:10:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Poor Conservatives (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mopshell, ridemybike, Dirtandiron

    Poor Conservatives think they ARE voting in their best interests.  The problem is they have been misled as to what their best interests are.

  •  Because the poor don't own Congress people. (3+ / 0-)

    They don't own Senators.

    They don't own corporations.

    There is no opportunity for the poor to vote their interest in America - it's ALL about the rich.

    That will eventually change, but it will be ugly.

    Rich don't want to give it up: it will have to be taken from them.

    Legal means "good".
    [41984 | Feb 4, 2005]

    by xxdr zombiexx on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 09:50:29 AM PDT

  •  You go into elections with the politicians you (0+ / 0-)

    have - the ones you;re aware of - those sucky people. Those are your choices.

    We never get real good choices.

    Why in the fuck can't the GOP find 1 - just 1 - decent person to show the country?

    All their candidates are fucking crazed. Who is there to vote for?

    Nobody.

    If Hillary fell ill, who would the Dems run?

    There are 350 million people in this country: We can't find 2 to run for president?

    The poor don't get any better candidates than the rest of America..

    Legal means "good".
    [41984 | Feb 4, 2005]

    by xxdr zombiexx on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 09:53:52 AM PDT

  •  Not always (0+ / 0-)

    A majority of Americans earning $250,000 or more voted for Obama in 2008.

  •  Two words. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dirtandiron

    Guns and religion.

    Barbara Lee speaks for me.

    by Oaklander on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 09:59:16 AM PDT

  •  "Politics of shame" (5+ / 0-)

    Brilliant!  I wonder that I did not make this connection before.  

    The flip side of shame, of course--which I see in my own conservative friends and relatives--is a politics of adamant self-congratulation and superiority.

    It's all about categorizing people into groups: deserving or not deserving.  The underbelly of this, of course, is shame, and its opposite, of course, is the now increasingly obsolete concept of inalienable rights and the idea that "all men are created equal."

    Wow.  
     

    "Kindness in words creates confidence. Kindness in thinking creates profoundness. Kindness in giving creates love." - Lao Tzu

    by mozartssister on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 10:38:11 AM PDT

    •  Adamant self-congratulation and superiority (0+ / 0-)

      is a common emotional disguise for fear of their own failure. Given how vehement they are, I'm reminded of Shakespeare's "the lady doth protest too much methinks" - just substitute "lady" as is appropriate.

      As you say:

      The underbelly of this, of course, is shame, and its opposite, of course, is the now increasingly obsolete concept of inalienable rights and the idea that "all men are created equal."
      It is insightful and very revealing. It also, when we think about it, fits with what we know of human nature.

      great comment, thank you.

      Please note that lamps in the Magic Lamp Emporium are on a genie time-share program so there may be a slight delay in wish fulfillment. (◕‿◕)

      by Mopshell on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 08:33:59 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The 'rich' don't always vote their self-interest. (4+ / 0-)

    Take a hypothetical couple with a 500K+ stock portfolio.  Does the stock market perform better under democratic or republican administrations?

    I think the long term evidence is there to support the fact that the market performs better under democrats.

    Trickle down economics doesn't work in the macro-economic sense.  Bottom up economics works because businesses prosper more when the average American has disposable income.

    Romney and the 1% may be better off voting republican, but upper middle class Americans with a modest+ stock portfolio should be voting democrat.

  •  OK, this was taken from the greatest of sources: (4+ / 0-)

    but I found this on a bodybuilding board (I know) and craigslist's rants & raves (I really know,) but nevertheless it contains some good info:

    http://newyork.craigslist.org/...
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/...

    How to brainwash someone:

    The 23 Tools:

    1. The key to truly effective brainwashing is to work at people's most fundamental awareness. Shape them at the neurological level so they develop the faculties to take your input and call it "thinking for myself." Enable them to stop thinking.

    2. Limit any and all faculties for self-awareness and self-sensing. Destroy instinct and intuition. Actively and endlessly encourage external awareness. Make people dependent on your external input for as many decisions as possible.

    3. Speed up messages so that the pace and rhythm of information is disorienting and visually biased.

    4. Condition people to being bombarded with hundreds of thousands of signals a day. Teach them to attend to this stream of information and to call it Reality. Never let them ask what "reality" is.

    5. Framing is everything. Decide what you want people to believe and make sure that any choices you give them are within a framework which assures you of your result. This is called the Illusion of Choice. "Do you want to sweep the floor before or after dinner?" Repeat this formula for economic systems, politicians, news stories, competing product brands and entertainment.

    6. Appeal to the lowest common denominator. Make sure that all shows model conflict resolution of people with an emotional and intellectual maturity no greater than that of a six year old. Make it funny so no one notices.

    7. Keep people passive. Encourage the Couch Potato Alpha Wave Escape Plan as the healing elixir for all that ails.

    8. Don't make people think. Their days are hard enough as is. Bypass the need for opinion making by giving people ready-made opinions. Do it as though you don't have a conscience -- they are probably too stupid to make their own decisions anyway.

    9. Ensure that there are no ongoing storylines with meaning or purpose beyond immediate sensory stimulation. Avoid universal themes as much as possible. Make absolutely certain there is no cultural, societal or global story or mythology present that conflicts with the myths of comfort and consumption.

    10. Never encourage responsibility, or so much as suggest that humans could be involved in co-creating their future and the realities in which they reside.

    11. Encourage group-sanctioned individuality only. By making 'individuality" the new conformity you are generating a powerful illusion of free choice.

    12. Sensationalize the superficial.

    13. Keep information bytes infinitesimally small. Promote Attention Deficit Disorder. Several decades of television have already set this in motion.

    14. Repetition is key. Repeat important messages as often as possible.

    15. Repetition is key.

    16. Repetition is key.

    17. Bypass rationality by any means possible. People don't need logic to accept information. Belief is emotional. Always remember: WAR=PEACE.

    18. Remember --- two half-truths make up a whole truth.

    19. Demonize self-knowledge technology of all kinds. Throw around words like "cult" and "brainwashing." Marginalize anyone involved in such pursuits.

    20. Keep old models of consciousness alive and well. If you can get away with referring to people's states as being phlegmatic or sanguine instead of programmable and intentional, do it.

    21. Keep people's attention on what really matters. Emphasize what's wrong as much as possible.

    22. Always give the impression that Everything Is Under Control -- but just barely so -- hammer into the populace the idea that their greatest fear could strike at any moment.

    23. Teach people that they are their thoughts and emotions. Reinforce this by teaching them to feel bad about their ideas, and to feel bad about feeling bad. Remember: Identify, identify, identify --- this will widen the empty void inside of them that only shopping can cure.

    By sticking to these simple premises you should be able to produce entire societies capable of ending world hunger, but too selfish to care. You will be able to bring about massive consumer mindsets and buying habits so powerful that logic and reason become superfluous in making the sale. You will be the new face of media. Good luck!

    Devon White specializes in PR for the brain, promoting integrity, responsibility and conscious evolution through online video and lecture-performances on sex.

  •  Great Article..., EXCEPT.... (0+ / 0-)

    ...whenever I read something like, "...enabling he and his wife to balance...", I really long for the days of literate journalists..., or even real journalists to return.

    There're becoming far too many of these pronoun confusions in KOS and it's distracting.  It also suggests the authors are probably wrong about much of the other content as well.

    Tighten up the ship, please.

    •  We write the way we talk. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Dirtandiron, Mopshell

      As it should be in a blog.  Lots has changed anyway in writing over the decades.  It's ok to end a sentence on a preposition, write a sentence fragment, do a one-word paragraph and more in many even relatively formal contexts.  See opinion pages and articles from many of the top newspapers and magazines.

      If you prefer the King's English where you would scrutinize every "who" and "whom" and want "therefores" etc. maybe you're not in the right site. Or living in the right decade.

      Best Scientist Ever Predicts Bacon Will Be Element 119 On The Periodic Table

      by dov12348 on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 01:06:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Ah yes, thank you for that and it's fixed now. (0+ / 0-)

      You might prefer reading this diary.

      Please note that lamps in the Magic Lamp Emporium are on a genie time-share program so there may be a slight delay in wish fulfillment. (◕‿◕)

      by Mopshell on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 08:36:20 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I don't vote my (narrow) self-interest (4+ / 0-)

    I have a little resistance to the premise in the title. Face it, I'm rich by most standards (probably top 5% anyway, I haven't really done the math). And I'm a diehard liberal - my wife and I both flew from WA to MA to work on the Warren campaign. And Teddy Kennedy, another rich man, was our north star.

    Some of us vote for a more just society, for investment that benefits everyone, for returning the wealth to our fellow humans whose work helped create it (and, no, we're not particularly religious - certainly not churched).

    In the broadest sense, we do vote in our self-interest, if you understand that what most interests me is my own moral core.

    Use every man after his desert, and who should 'scape whipping?

    by UncleDavid on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 12:00:17 PM PDT

    •  Aye, there's the rub (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Dirtandiron, beadsandyarn
      In the broadest sense, we do vote in our self-interest, if you understand that what most interests me is my own moral core.
      I'm sure people on the other end of the political spectrum feel the same way.

      "this level of stupid snark should be upgraded"

      by Chuckling Quietly to Myself on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 12:30:51 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Because you still have empathy for the other (0+ / 0-)
      Some of us vote for a more just society, for investment that benefits everyone, for returning the wealth to our fellow humans whose work helped create it (and, no, we're not particularly religious - certainly not churched).

      Where are all the jobs, Boehner?

      by Dirtandiron on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 02:17:16 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I know there are voters like yourself (0+ / 0-)

      and I'm very grateful for it! Not all at the top end of the socio-economic scale are Republicans - the Democratic Party would be sunk if they were!

      I took the title for this diary from Lyngar's latest article, the final sentence. In the article, he himself is saying that when he was poor, he voted Republican yet now that he is educated and comfortably off, he votes Democratic and explains why. I think his final sentence is, at least, partly tongue-in-cheek, a criticism of those who generalize because that generalization just isn't true as he can testify from his own experience.

      Please note that lamps in the Magic Lamp Emporium are on a genie time-share program so there may be a slight delay in wish fulfillment. (◕‿◕)

      by Mopshell on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 08:49:41 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The rich in the voting "process" (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dirtandiron

    Rich people don't "vote in their special interests" in elections.  The buy them.

  •  Excellent diary, Mopshell! (4+ / 0-)

    Why so many vote against their own self interest has baffled me for years....
    Mr. Lyngar offers some serious first-hand knowledge into this.

    Thank you for bringing it here, and for your clarity in doing so.

    tip + rec

    :)

    every adult is responsible for every child

    by ridemybike on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 12:27:46 PM PDT

    •  Thank you, ridemybike! (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ridemybike

      I'm interested in people as people and I'm concerned that we tend to pigeon-hole groups of people and apply superficialities to the group rather than understanding them as people.

      Please note that lamps in the Magic Lamp Emporium are on a genie time-share program so there may be a slight delay in wish fulfillment. (◕‿◕)

      by Mopshell on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 08:53:50 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Well said Mopshell. Thanks for this great post. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jan4insight, Mopshell

    Humor Alert! No statement from this UID is intended to be true, including this one. Intended for recreational purposes only. Unauthorized interpretations may lead to unexpected results. This waiver void where prohibited. Artistic License - 420420

    by HoundDog on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 12:42:04 PM PDT

    •  Thanks, HoundDog! (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      HoundDog

      Praise from those I admire means a great deal to me.

      Please note that lamps in the Magic Lamp Emporium are on a genie time-share program so there may be a slight delay in wish fulfillment. (◕‿◕)

      by Mopshell on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 08:55:01 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Likewise, thanks. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Mopshell

        Humor Alert! No statement from this UID is intended to be true, including this one. Intended for recreational purposes only. Unauthorized interpretations may lead to unexpected results. This waiver void where prohibited. Artistic License - 420420

        by HoundDog on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 09:22:24 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  LOL (0+ / 0-)

    The idea that voting Obama in 2012 was in the interests of poor people is laugh out loud funny. It's also provably untrue.

    This is the delusion liberals comfort themselves. The idea that, unlike wingnuts who vote for Republicans, liberals DO vote their own self interests by voting for neoliberal right wing Democrats.

    Of course, explaining why their situation continues to get worse, why this country continues to be ripped apart by right wing policies like continued tax cuts for the super-rich, selling off of every bit of the public's (that means your) Commonwealth like our education system, space program, roads, parking lots, and basically anything that can be auctioned off, is not part of the delusion.

    So they either deny it, or lie about it. ("Obamacare is awesome!!!")

    What a joke this diary is. And I'm extremely disappointed with some of the people who rec'd it. You should know better than endorsing this...sophistry.

    •  As inadequate as Obama's been on such issues (7+ / 1-)

      It's simply delusional to suggest that McCain or Romney wouldn't have been much worse, given that their GOP predecessors WERE worse. I firmly reject the argument that both parties are essentially the same, even if the better party is clearly nowhere near as good as it should be. Until someone explains to me how we get past having to choose the lesser of two evils, I will continue to vote for the the lesser of two evils, living as I do in the real world, not a bongo-pounding cone of moral superiority.

      "Reagan's dead, and he was a lousy president" -- Keith Olbermann 4/22/09

      by kovie on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 03:13:03 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Two factors that (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SilentBrook, jan4insight, Mopshell

    I believe contribute to poor people voting against their self interest;

    1. Big racism trumps Big bidness

    ''I'll tell you what's at the bottom of it," he said. "If you can convince the lowest white man that he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll even empty his pockets for you."  
    2. Me tooism aka you the average Joe/Josephine will one day be one of the big boys/girls so vote for that tax cut. Some day if you work hard enough it will benefit you
    "...don't forget that most men with nothing would rather protect the possibility of becoming rich, than face the reality of being poor." ( From the movie 1776, spoken by John Dickinson of Pennsylvania (actor Donald Madden) that best sums up the success of the Tea Party)

    “I THINK, THEREFORE I’M DANGEROUS”

    by commander ogg on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 01:53:59 PM PDT

  •  What a moving story (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SilentBrook, jan4insight, Mopshell

    This story really gives a lot of insight into how at some voters feel as they make decisions that others (like me) would see as not in their best interests.

    It also bears out what George Lakoff has said about voting in your own self-interest. When people see election choices through the lens of morality, they will often base their vote on their moral views, even if it hurts them.

    Lakoff urges Democrats to keep looking for ways to appeal to the what he calls the Nurturant Parent side of people, rather than the Strict Father side. We all have both models wired into our brains, but one usually dominates. Lakoff says that if we can appeal to the NP side of the brain, on any issue, that strengthens the NP side in general.

    This man seems to have shared that Strict Father model approach, which equates financial success with moral strength. The more successful you are, the more moral and deserving you are.

    Good for Edwin for discovering that just isn't so.

    Good for

  •  Do poor people even have the opportunity to vote (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mopshell

    for a candidate that has their best interests in mind? Certainly not very often.

     ESPECIALLY if they live in red states; in these situations poor people are often faced with the choice between a Republican that actively wants to harm them or a blue dog Democrat that just doesn't give a shit about them.

    As long as we cling to the DLC/Third Way meme of "liberals can't get elected" we will continue to leave the votes of the poor and the working class on the table. They are there if we want them. I don't think the Very Serious People care though.

  •  Because... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jan4insight, Mopshell

    most poor people are corporately brainwashed as hell. They think that they will be rich someday if they side with the corporate pigs.

    If you like bicycles, check out the newest and coolest products at my site, "ZiggyboyBullet.com." You can also find my products at e-Bay under the name, "Ziggyboy." See all the products on my "See seller's other items" link.

    by JohnnieZ on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 03:09:36 PM PDT

    •  Children learn this in the playground (0+ / 0-)

      "If I make myself acceptable to the popular people then I can claim an association with their group and not get picked on". The popular groups always have these fearful souls on their fringes. They're likely to give them a hard time though, make them constantly "prove" their loyalty and acceptability.

      Please note that lamps in the Magic Lamp Emporium are on a genie time-share program so there may be a slight delay in wish fulfillment. (◕‿◕)

      by Mopshell on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 09:04:09 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Shame and guilt explain only a part of it (0+ / 0-)

    That explains consciously supporting people you know are screwing you over, because you feel inferior to them and that you deserve to be screwed over as a consequence. The other part is more about "culture" and identity, being manipulated over issues like abortion, gay marriage, guns, elitist liberals who think they're better than you, etc., by people who give two shit's about such issues except to the extent that they can be exploited to win elections.

    We are, to a large extent, culturally and socially, still an agrarian peasant society composed of unsophisticated, superstitious, insecure and gullible people who, yes, it's true, absolutely cling to their guns and religion when times are tough--and times are tough, by design. It's not just rural people who think this way. There are plenty of urban working class types who are like this. Think Archie Bunker. They're still out there, in droves.

    I don't know what it's going to take to fix this. We continue to be haunted by certain cultural, social and structural problems unique in the developed world, that seem to stay with us from generation to generation.

    "Reagan's dead, and he was a lousy president" -- Keith Olbermann 4/22/09

    by kovie on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 03:10:04 PM PDT

  •  Too many poor fail to see the rich keep them poor. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jan4insight, Mopshell

    They need poor to pay their taxes. They brainwash and exploit their prejudices. They do not care one iota for the poor or needy. Nevertheless,  there is no more pathetic state than to vote against your own best interest. Nothing!  Pass the word!

  •  Everyone votes their self-interest (0+ / 0-)

    The rich are usually ONLY ONLY interested in staying rich. They are weird one-trick ponies there. But the middle class and poor are more multi-facated.  

    Voting for someone because he will do what your religion wants is voting for their religious self-interest.  Is it awful for other people, yes indeed.  But it is self-interested.

    Minority rights should never be subject to majority vote.

    by lostboyjim on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 03:49:38 PM PDT

  •  Because no one represents poor people. (0+ / 0-)
  •  Shame. An unatural state imposed on the children (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jan4insight

    of the poor so that they can be controlled by the rich.

    How many times have we read or heard that these parasites have no shame? Why do we make that observation as if it were a bad thing?

    "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire

    by Greyhound on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 05:59:35 PM PDT

  •  Are you serious? (0+ / 0-)

    Reality: Republicans represent only the rich. Democrats represent only the middle class and rich. I'm not aware of ANY third party today that represents The People -- including the working poor, and those who are far worse off. The Green Party, etc., and even self-described Socialist Sen. Sanders, stand only the middle class (albeit with a meaningless pat on the head to the working poor). America has a poverty crisis. For whom can the poor vote? They have no voice in the media, no representation in government whatsoever. Now think about it: Clinton/Gore targeted the poor, giving us 8 years of Bush. The poor voted third party or withheld their votes, and the middle class elected Bush. The poor, and those who understand why unrelieved poverty is such a crucial issue, voted for Obama in hopes that he could launch a legitimate public discussion about our poverty crisis. That didn't happen. With the latest budget, Dems voted to cut food stamps to the elderly, disabled and working poor.  Again. Vote for whom?

  •  I would add: (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jan4insight, Bethesda 1971

    Republicans vote mid-term and off year. Why don't Democrats?
    Both are age old questions. Both have been studied to within an inch of their lives. Many sound answers have been proposed, but it goes on.
    Scientists can study problems, such as disease, for years; yet, they can't seem to figure out how to fix them.
    Voting is the common cold of the nation.

    Free Will is the only moral law.//If you have to explain snark, it's because it isn't working on one end or the other.

    by franklyn on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 07:00:26 PM PDT

  •  I fundamentally disagree with this diary (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Bethesda 1971

    It follows the typical middle class thinking that poor people are largely stupid and vote against their interests. It also pretty much completely ignores race, as usual.

    Absolutely everyone votes in their best interest. But we don't all share the same hierarchy of interests. And when you think about it, it's not actually in the best interest of rich people to vote Republican either, as a society with massive inequality will have bad effects in the coming generations.

    What this diary seems to be largely concerned with is economic interests. The diarist and the author of the article assume that poor Republicans are just dumb and don't understand how voting Republican hurts them economically.

    A more correct statement would have been: Poor white Republicans largely vote the way they do not because of economics but because of something else. After all, most poor people actually vote for the Democratic Party. It's the middle class that votes for the Republican Party. More accurately: middle class whites.

    I don't think the reason most Republican voters who aren't rich are still voting for the Republican Party is out of economic ignorance. It's because race and/or religion are of more importance to those particular voters. The strong sense of belonging and racial nostalgia. That's what the Republican Party openly peddles 24/7.

    Two hundred fifty years of slavery. Ninety years of Jim Crow. Sixty years of separate but equal. Thirty-five years of racist housing policy. Until we reckon with our compounding moral debts, America will never be whole. - Ta-Nehisi Coates

    by moviemeister76 on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 07:34:45 PM PDT

    •  This fits with the New Deal Post-War narrative (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Mopshell

      Poor and working people voted for the Democrats from FDR until Nixon and then Reagan.  The Civil Rights Acts and "law and order" started driving them away from the Dems in the late'60s and early '70s.  Reagan clinched the exodus with economic (welfare queen) race-baiting.  It was fading at the end of Reagan because of downward mobility. but Bush I kept it going with crime race and liberal baiting (Willie Horton).

      I would say that some poor Republicans vote for overt racist reasons, but also because of the incorrect perception of their economic interest -- the belief that the poor, esp. of color, are robbing their taxes.

      The Tea Party, though motivated in large part by racism, "broadened" the resentment factor for middle class whites to include not just poor blacks, but also struggling whites (e.g., the Santelli rant)

      But generally the evil genius of the Reagan Republicans was to convince white that blacks are stealing their taxes while the real theft is going way upward.

      Steve Gilliard Lives.

      by Bethesda 1971 on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 08:06:47 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  "Christian" morality is a factor, too (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    debris54, BeninSC

    I can't comment on the percentage of poorer citizens voting Republican out of shame for their own failures, but I think you need to consider the "Christian" fundamentalists who vote Republican purely for the sake of "righteousness". How these people have become so committed to a doctrine that is so far removed from my interpretation of Christianity (and I was raised Roman Catholic) is completely beyond me. Maybe, as people who hate themselves, they take literally the phrase "love your neighbor as yourself"...

    And it seems many of these fundamentalists consider themselves pious BECAUSE they hate -- and the Teapublicans are more than happy to accept those votes. Reinforcing their belief in their own righteousness is more important to these fundamentalists than supporting policies that would help them prosper. Go figure.

    •  Those who seek their votes have studied for (0+ / 0-)

      years how to best manipulate and motivate them, and they perform as the very best puppets would, responsible voting be damned, reasonable self-interest be damned. I know you've seen this as long as the rest of us, mwreding.

      Welcome to Daily Kos. If you have any questions about how to participate here, you can learn more at the Community Guidelines, the Knowledge Base, and the Site Resource Diaries. Diaries labeled "Open Thread" are also great places to ask. We look forward to your contributions.
      ~~ from the DK Partners & Mentors Team.

      "The opposite of war isn't peace, it's CREATION." _ Jonathan Larson, RENT -9.62, -9.13

      by BeninSC on Fri Jul 18, 2014 at 03:16:01 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  We must be operating with some telephathic links (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mopshell

    Please see my new post re. a mom, a dad, two girls, food stamps and the bumper sticker on their car..... Rec'd, Tipped.

    "It is better to light one candle than curse the darkness." (Adlai Stevenson in praise of Eleanor Roosevelt) (Glowing Candle Avatar Adopted in 1986)

    by murphthesurf3 on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 08:15:19 PM PDT

    •  Darnit, give me a link... (0+ / 0-)

      now I'll have to spend all of a few seconds looking for it! (◕‿◕)

      But seriously, this really is in your area because you are one of the most compassionate, honest and fair people I know. I admire it which is why I was so drawn to Edwin Lyngar's story.

      Please note that lamps in the Magic Lamp Emporium are on a genie time-share program so there may be a slight delay in wish fulfillment. (◕‿◕)

      by Mopshell on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 09:14:02 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  We both found each others story. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Mopshell

        "It is better to light one candle than curse the darkness." (Adlai Stevenson in praise of Eleanor Roosevelt) (Glowing Candle Avatar Adopted in 1986)

        by murphthesurf3 on Fri Jul 18, 2014 at 12:17:52 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  It really did only take me a few seconds too! (0+ / 0-)

          GREAT diary!

          Please note that lamps in the Magic Lamp Emporium are on a genie time-share program so there may be a slight delay in wish fulfillment. (◕‿◕)

          by Mopshell on Fri Jul 18, 2014 at 07:24:38 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Right back atcha! (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Mopshell

            I went to a meeting last night re. the expansion of medicaid in Missouri. It is a group that has been meeting regularly made up mostly of hidden liberals and crazy progressives (like me) with a few non-political people...Last night the group was much larger than it has been because of a number of those poor people, the working poor, showing up. They came from two small churches in the area whose pastors have just recently joined us. At our next meeting we are asking each one to bring another one.....if we can get 100 people energized around this, we can make some waves.

            "It is better to light one candle than curse the darkness." (Adlai Stevenson in praise of Eleanor Roosevelt) (Glowing Candle Avatar Adopted in 1986)

            by murphthesurf3 on Sat Jul 19, 2014 at 10:38:54 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Oh that is BRILLIANT! (0+ / 0-)

              I do hope they all show up next time and want to bring someone with them the time after that. At some stage, make sure they are all registered to vote and have the requisite ID if needed. Maybe this meeting can turn into a GOTV movement too? Perhaps couch it in terms of "how do we help get people to the ballot box to help their cause and ours?"?

              Please note that lamps in the Magic Lamp Emporium are on a genie time-share program so there may be a slight delay in wish fulfillment. (◕‿◕)

              by Mopshell on Sat Jul 19, 2014 at 04:30:43 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Fingers crossed, you never know how these things (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Mopshell

                will go.....beginnings are difficult times.

                "It is better to light one candle than curse the darkness." (Adlai Stevenson in praise of Eleanor Roosevelt) (Glowing Candle Avatar Adopted in 1986)

                by murphthesurf3 on Mon Jul 21, 2014 at 12:17:11 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Have you talked to navajo about this? (0+ / 0-)

                  She and the team may be able to offer some assistance. It's a great initiative!

                  Please note that lamps in the Magic Lamp Emporium are on a genie time-share program so there may be a slight delay in wish fulfillment. (◕‿◕)

                  by Mopshell on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 07:30:16 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

  •  Only a handful of candidates to vote FOR (0+ / 0-)

    Which candidates utter these words with intent?

    Right to organize
    Living wage
    Rent control
    Public transportation
    Public [ fill in the blank, pretty much ]
    Affordable Food
    Affordable Water
    Affordable [ fill in the blank again ]
    Cheap broadband
    ...
    This is boring

    Anything that could actually help the poor help themselves is totally ignored, because poor people are a profit center for conglomerates. And conglomerates own the government. Ain't that the shits.

  •  "... Why don't poor people?" (0+ / 0-)

    Because rich people have convinced poor people that if they vote for the interests of rich people, they align with rich people, no matter how much they may be suffering at the hands of rich people. They too shall be members of the club, someday. Just keep the meme alive

  •  This is such a good point.. (0+ / 0-)

    and one that confounds the hell out of me.  It's not just a shame thing though because I've known people that take advantage of every form of welfare and are devout conservatives!!  I think they want to be cool or in with the rich or just part of the false consensus that Fox news reiterates day after day.  Of course racism plays a huge part in it especially in the south.  LBJ and Republicans knew when they passed the civil rights bill that the South would be divided and Republicans would eventually gain control of southern states.  

    "When a nation's young men are conservative, its funeral bell is already rung." Henry Ward Beecher

    by rodgerdodger on Sat Apr 25, 2015 at 08:24:28 AM PDT

  •  "some day I will be rich, when I hit the lottery" (0+ / 0-)

    I have been told by people voting against their self-interest, that they are voting for "the rich" because someday they will be rich. Mostly they believe that some day they will hit the lottery, or some other deus ex machina will make them rich.

    Rather than self-loathing, it is identifying with the rich in some hypothetical future state.

    Another friend told me he changed his mind, to vote for Democrat Jon Corzine instead of Republican Christie, because Corzine waved to him during a parade. He is an educated and cynical person, but he believed that Corzine was waving specifically at him.

    In the US voters are mostly driven to the polls by the party machines and patronage. Therefore they vote the party line, to protect or become eligible for patronage jobs, or to sustain or gain influence with their local candidate/machine. The voters that go as a matter of civil duty and vote from their beliefs are the minority.

  •  Right wing poor people vote against their own i... (0+ / 0-)

    Right wing poor people vote against their own interest because they're stupid, and because they hope they'll somehow be rewarded by their masters.

  •  Because they believe in the trickle (0+ / 0-)

    Because they believe in the trickle. The right has do a great job of taking the poor out of the game and now the are convincing them to jump off the cliff like Lemmings. (Small fury animals that were driven off a cliff for a movie)  

  •  Voting (0+ / 0-)

    WOW JUST WOW. GOOD MAN.

  •  This article sums it up nicely. Why do non weal... (0+ / 0-)

    This article sums it up nicely. Why do non wealthy people vote GOP? I smile when I see bumper stickers with the sentiment-

    "I can't afford to vote GOP".

  •  At least (0+ / 0-)

    we have one that finally got the point.
    If we keep promoting, maybe we can get enough to wake up to get things fixed.

  •  Liberalism is the best. (0+ / 0-)

    While many poor and middle class vote against their self interest by voting republican, a lot finally wake up and change.  It is always the liberal who makes this world better.  It was Copernicus and Galileo, liberals of their time,  who finally proved the earth rotated and went around the sun. It was the founding fathers of this country, liberals, who were dead set against this country being a "Christian Nation" who came up with the brilliant constitution we have now.  It was Abe Lincoln, a liberal Republican who realized slavery was wrong and changed it.  Also Teddy Roosevelt a Republican and liberal who knew that corporations had gotten too powerful and passed laws to change that.  It was Eisenhower, a liberal Republican who told us to 'beware the military industrial complex' and saw the necessity of a good highway system to foster economic growth.  A quick look at history should tell anyone that it is always the liberals who advance civilization and economic status.  Why poor people and middle class vote for republicans is beyond me.  My best guess is that they fall prey to the lies of the rich, envy them and feel if they vote like them they will become like them

  •  Republican goals:1% have the wealth. 99% are poor. (0+ / 0-)

    Hate is a powerful narcotic. Half of the 99% is likely to believe anything.

  •  NC MAKES IT YOUR FAULT (0+ / 0-)

    Greatly appreciate this article.  It explains a great deal.

    Have posted this safe change.org link here to explain why in NC they have a law that does exactly what the writer above states-they make it your fault if you become poor-even when it is the fault of a conservative archaic common law.

    Please read here

    http://chn.ge/...

    Don't even travel through NC without becoming knowledgeable about what happens in NC.

    Meg Conway, formerly of Asheville NC

SME in Seattle, Mary, fly, Angie in WA State, Chi, Trendar, glitterscale, Caelian, Gooserock, mimi, surfbird007, maracucho, Wintermute, CleverNickName, Vico, Mlle L, eeff, dsb, TX Unmuzzled, gjohnsit, Matilda, niemann, ssgbryan, Bruce The Moose, BlackSheep1, susakinovember, whenwego, CoolOnion, CatFelyne, rabel, jennifree2bme, Iberian, askyron, splashy, Alna Dem, wader, jdmorg, Texknight, kharma, emmasnacker, pat bunny, Kentucky DeanDemocrat, brainwave, scott5js, lezlie, niteskolar, flatford39, Catte Nappe, hazzcon, papercut, Buzzer, LucyTooners, lcrp, zerelda, randallt, WisVoter, Hillbilly Dem, hayden, Black Max, Sybil Liberty, sebastianguy99, Armand451, oortdust, sawgrass727, Gowrie Gal, sb, NoMoreLies, Skaje, caul, mjd in florida, stlawrence, basquebob, dewtx, stagemom, YucatanMan, FutureNow, Sun Tzu, HugoDog, hilltopper, Ozymandius, RichterScale, Ginny in CO, FindingMyVoice, jilikins, Hannibal, Alan Arizona, Jim R, MadGeorgiaDem, WuChier, kovie, cybersaur, Mr Bojangles, Clytemnestra, edwardssl, emeraldmaiden, cardboardurinal, HoundDog, mooshter, AoT, deha, Naniboujou, TheBlaz, NBBooks, global citizen, The Hindsight Times, mozartssister, Preston S, el cid, Turbonerd, AmBushed, CA Nana, lastamendment, pdard, blueoregon, Statusquomustgo, crystal eyes, bstotts, nhox42, markthshark, ammasdarling, One Pissed Off Liberal, BeninSC, Loudoun County Dem, Mr K, camlbacker, ksp, devis1, ColoTim, paz3, puakev, HeartlandLiberal, noofsh, Matt Z, deepeco, DWG, joedemocrat, bnasley, mbh1023, cyncynical, rontripp, millwood, gchaucer2, pioneer111, GeorgeXVIII, leonard145b, skod, spearfish, shmuelman, Counselor730, on the cusp, TomP, rmonroe, JDWolverton, bkamr, busdriver, kingneil, Youffraita, bonch, tvdude, jamess, Greyhound, tofumagoo, CenFlaDem, pamelabrown, Cassandra Waites, triplepoint, Missys Brother, diras, matching mole, mosec, Parthenia, BYw, Diogenes2008, LaFeminista, postalblue, Sun dog, DontTaseMeBro, Dirtandiron, greengemini, Magick Maven, Don Enrique, mkor7, LibrErica, ThinkerT, MKSinSA, glitterlust, papahaha, johnosahon, kevinpdx, Shelley99, Petey2, sfarkash, jfromga, Words In Action, commonmass, FogCityJohn, serendipityisabitch, catwho, Anima, BenderRodriguez, Polly Syllabic, ATFILLINOIS, pixxer, Kristina40, anonevent, DerAmi, melfunction, Betty Pinson, Loose Fur, Oh Mary Oh, nosleep4u, soaglow, slice, djrez, Onomastic, Front Toward Enemy, Bluefin, annominous, Liberal Capitalist, StateofEuphoria, Bob Duck, La Gitane, FarWestGirl, asterkitty, lexalou, deeproots, Haf2Read, zukesgirl64, sethtriggs, Carolyn in Oregon, Jasonhouse, thomask, Hoghead99, BarackStarObama, muddy boots, LeftCoastTom, worldlotus, enhydra lutris, ditsylilg, sound of progress, poliwrangler, Hayate Yagami, Judy Burnette, jham710, Chitown Kev, Azazello, Laurel in CA, chmood, ridemybike, Eowyn9, Heart n Mind, isabelle hayes, Gay CA Democrat, murphthesurf3, ahumbleopinion, scyellowdogdem, midgebaker, a2nite, FloridaSNMOM, Trotskyrepublican, LittleSilver, jan4insight, carolanne, reginahny, BusyinCA, MartyM, lunachickie, wxorknot, avsp, FrY10cK, stvnjon, history first, Stills, allensl, Greenfinches, nuclear winter solstice, Chaddiwicker, hillbrook green, jusjtim35, Tigger Too, countwebb, Late Again, Thornrose, eyo, goodpractice, gypsytoo, Alhambra, JerryNA, howabout, Jon Sitzman, Homer177, Smoh, nice marmot, veuve, smkyle1, Catkin, Esi, skepticalcitizen, buffan, mojo11, nancyjones, richardvjohnson, rbaillie, Dodgerdog1, Elizaveta, Will Stark, Zwenkau, sillycarrot, edaverill, ptressel, LiberalLoner, Sheridan for Congress CA 42, debris54, cpr4life, paulex, RepresentUsPlease, AJayne, OKath, ekoh, TheDudester, Nancy P, Gunnar Thomas, jackdabastard, silverfoxcruiser, 47songs, csm, brightlite, Older and Wiser Now, jessbell911, nicestjerk, coyote66, DonJ, Katannah, darleneh, CWinebrinner, NoBlueSkies, Do Not Push, lthomasrn, kaja, ggoldenrod, Mark Raymond

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site