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The far right screams that there is a war on Christianity whenever someone disapproves of their behavior. I suggest that there really is a war on Christianity but it does not come from outside agencies so much as within the ranks of those who call themselves Christians. Read below for more.

There truly is a war on Christianity. The far right fundamentalist groups  are the ones waging it. They are giving Christianity a bad name by their biggoted, self-serving and lazy behavior. They constantly mis-interpret the Bible for their own ends. They pick and choose out of context which passages will serve them best. They are unloving, pharasaic and hypocritical. They spend time protecting their pocketbooks by causing harm to everyone else by the programs they push through. They are showing the ugliest face of America all around the world. Is it any wonder that more and more anti-christian sentiment has shown up?

They form huge tax free corporations to support their own narrow minded beliefs so they can shove them down everyone else's throats rather than spending the money on those who need help. Then in order to justify themselves for their non-christian behavior, they blame those they should be helping for all the sins they themselves are guilty of. This is called projecting. Let's put all our sins on the heads of goats and send them out to the desert rather than realizing we are the guilty and taking responsibility for our own actions. Instead of worshiping God, they worship the almighty dollar and the power it gives them.

People like the Green's, groups like Focus on the Family speak their belief with their mouths in a most unloving way but their actions reveal the rottenness in their souls.

If these faux, baby Christians  that are still on mother's milk because they are not mature enough for the meat of Christianity, continue what they are doing they will do the opposite of what Jesus would do. They spend their time trying to control everyone else in order to get their own way. They are alienating people rather than inviting them into the love of Jesus Christ.

The overt selfishness and hatefulness of these groups are as anti-christian as you can get and look like the Spanish Inquisition and other extreme behavior by "Christians" in the past. If Christianity is destroyed, it will be because these noisy, obnoxious people will do it from within.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Fine with me, I'm tired is so called Christians (5+ / 0-)

    when what they are are he-man woman hating white supremacists; that includes "the pope".

    I voted Tuesday, May 6, 2014 because it is my right, my responsibility and because my parents moved from Alabama to Ohio to vote. Unfortunately, the republicons want to turn Ohio into Alabama.

    by a2nite on Fri Jul 18, 2014 at 02:46:00 PM PDT

  •  No True Scotsman (4+ / 0-)

    There's definitely a political, doctrinal split in what being a christian means.  But since there is no such way to define what a 'true christian' is, each faction or flavor can be said to be constantly at 'war' with one another.  If someone is not in the 'right' faction, they're at war with the true version of christianity.

    I had a fundie christian once lecture me on how his idea of what makes someone a 'true christian' was the only legitimate definition.  To him, people that fell outside that label (like Catholics) were leading others astray, and were against what christianity truly was.  Thus, were at war with them.  I believe most denominations feel this way about outside denominations.

    Probably the more productive tactic is to point out how the things these groups advocate have tangible negative effects on people rather than insisting they are not the correct version of christian.  Real effects can be demonstrated, and it's harder to ignore the particular issues if you stick to debating factual effects.

    If you can get people to realize they're arguing in favor of unethical, immoral behavior or policies, that's probably going to be more effective than to dispute the squishy, subjective label of christian.

    •  I am an Episcopalian (9+ / 0-)

      We Episcopalians accept that Christianity can be practiced in different ways. We respect other religions and allow our people to explore. My feeling is Christianity is lived out through love of and service to others. What I do not respect are those who call themselves Christians and are behaving hatefully, are racists and then go to church on Sunday to show how holy they are whether they are Roman Catholic, Episopalian, Fundamentalists or others.

      •  I think the question is one of proselytizing (4+ / 0-)

        For example the SBC finally agreed after years of annual missions to stop trying to convert American Jews.  However, locally several churches still make annual pilgrimages to other states in order to try to convert the Jews.

        In the US, most people have decided about their view of faith so the evangelical sects are trying to lure believers from other sects.  This is where the problem arises, as this requires the evangelicals to assume that their faith is the only true course and all other faiths are on the road to Hell.  Such assumptions rankle many Americans.  I am in the midst of Evangelicals and recently had my daughter's mother in law (who lived quite a life when she was younger) lecture me for half an hour on "what Jesus meant" when I merely observed that my FiL, a Presbyterian minister, accepted the Calvinist belief in "The Elect".  That launched a nonstop tirade on why this belief is "Satanic" in its nature  

        •  While proselytizing is annoying, it is part of the (0+ / 0-)

          evangelical belief system. From their point of view, they are trying to rescue you from an eternity in hell.
             So, their intentions are good.
             They just don't get how they look to others.

          •  Just remember this the next time Mormon or (0+ / 0-)

            JWs show up at your door ready to explain to you the error of your beliefs.  It is not a question of good intentions at any rate since they are trying to build up brownie points in Heaven with their evangelizing.  As I noted elsewhere, evangelizing removes the necessity for introspection and self awareness

      •  Not too different sounding (3+ / 0-)

        I don't have much experience talking with a wide variety of christians.  Those I do have experience talking with are mostly Fundamentalists.  The core feeling you mentioned that you consider important is what Fundamentalists stress as well.  It doesn't seem to make them any more loving.

        The problem is entirely how you choose to follow that ideal.  And that's what my point was intended to convey.  Choosing to restrict discussion to facts and tangible impact is better than arguing over what being a christian means.  What people state as their ideals tend to be fairly similar, after all.

        People may readily dispute what being a true christian means, but it is much harder to argue against things based on empirical observation.

      •  "Love thy neighbor as thy self" (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        NancyWH, VirginiaJeff, Emmy, Hoghead99

        I believe this is the core tenet of Christianity, and where the right wing fails most conspicuously.

        An illusion can never be destroyed directly... SK.

        by Thomas Twinnings on Fri Jul 18, 2014 at 04:50:23 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Organized christianity's not going anywhere. (5+ / 0-)

    It's become a growth industry almost like any other business.  It has a business model and a growth plan.  And it doesn't pay taxes in places of worship.

    Big-name, big-personality christianity is getting less popular, thank heaven (please laugh at the sorta non sequitur).  That's happening for exactly the reasons you describe - people are seeing past the sugary coating to the rottenness beneath.  And the movers and shakers of Big Religion are getting pretty big for their britches.  Who could blame them, given recent events.

    I'm seriously not trying to piss in your cornflakes, Dovie.  I apologize if it sounds that way.  What I mean to say is, yeah, more middle-of-the-road Americans are seeing the hypocrisy and bullshit in the actions of some christians, especially those with a good deal of money and power.  But - very sadly - it's that very money and power, plus the extreme pervasiveness of the roots of the faith in rural areas, that will keep Big Religion's hand very close to the levers of power for some time to come.

    May we one day know the Earth of J.P. Hogan's Giants novels, in which religion has been largely abandoned in favor of reasoned, researched scientific thought.  In favor, the basis of that society was quick and nearly universal availability of information, and, you know, internet.  So here's hoping.

    Not all people are human; not all humans are people.

    by Jon Sitzman on Fri Jul 18, 2014 at 03:08:02 PM PDT

    •  Sad but True (5+ / 0-)

      I respect where you are coming from. I believe there are wonderful things the church has done and terrible things. I try to live as an example of who Jesus is. I try to serve where I can and love everyone even if I do not always like them. It is time Christians reexamine their faith and begin to walk the walk instead of talking a talk that is slanted to what they want.

      •  2 fairly recent doctrines or perverted versions (8+ / 0-)

        of them have manifested among the Evangelicals.  The first is "Once Saved, Always Saved" which means once you accept Jesus as your Savior, nothing you do in the future can cancel your salvation.  It reduces the daily work required for the average Christian who is now relieved of all responsibility for his actions.
        Speaking of actions, the second is "Faith, not Works" which ignores James exhortation that works are the fruit of faith and instead states that all Christians have to do is to believe and have no obligation to do any sort of good works in order to have salvation.  This also makes it easier to be a Christian which is one reason Evangelicals are now attracting more followers.
        Americans love a bargain and those two doctrines make faith completely work-free with no obligations as to your actions.  They figure they have beaten Pascal's Wager by guaranteeing salvation on the cheap  

        •  the "Get Out of Hell Free" card. (6+ / 0-)

          "Once Saved, Always Saved":  Someone should print up little cards that look just like the Monopoly cards "Get Out of Jail Free," but with "Get Out of Hell Free" and an explanation of why this doctrine is perverse.

          "Faith, not works," has its roots in the differences between Catholic and Protestant teachings.  The Catholic doctrine is that good works count toward salvation, but this was abused by some portions of the Church in Medieval times, in the form of "money donations to the Church = good works," and Protestantism reacted against that as a form of corruption by originating the "Faith not works" doctrine.  Which in recent times has itself become a source of the corruption you identified as "Once saved, always saved."

          Bottom line is, corrupt people will always find an excuse, and the rest of us have to keep playing whack-a-mole to close their loopholes.

          We got the future back. Uh-oh.

          by G2geek on Fri Jul 18, 2014 at 04:49:18 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  yeppers and then various people such as (4+ / 0-)

            Luther and Calvin among many others weighed in and muddied the waters for the average believer.  That is the reason most people either don't read the Bible themselves but instead pick up a few pet quotations (usually wrong or misattributed) from their preachers or try to read it and just cannot understand it.  For those who do understand the text usually try to understand it in a modern and not First Century context.

            •  Entlord: At the time of Luther and Calvin, (0+ / 0-)

              the Bible was only available in Latin and was closely held by the Catholic priests. Luther's battle with the RCC led him to postulate Biblical authority as the basis of his new denomination, as opposed to the authority of the RCC.
                 So Protestantism encouraged the translation of the Bible into current languages and encouraged believers to read it.
              The doctrine of the priesthood of the believer required Biblical knowledge. Protestants encouraged widespread literacy (which was definitely not a priority of the 16th-17th Century RCC) because literacy was necessary for reading and understanding the Bible.
                You'll find that contemporary churchgoing Christians do, in fact, read the Bible and have some understanding of its context.
                What I see on DK comment threads is that a lot of folks don't like what the Bible says and rather than dealing with that, prefer to malign Christians for reading the Bible and believing it.
                As for cheap salvation: Protestant salvation through faith vs Catholic absolution by priests. As far as ease of use, there isn't much difference.

              •  There are studies (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Mirthandirxiii

                many by the PEW research group, that Christians hardly know the bible.

                "  You'll find that contemporary churchgoing Christians do, in fact, read the Bible and have some understanding of its context."

                They've found that Atheists are more knowledgeable because they actually try to understand it rather than quote 'biblical talking points'.

                "What I see on DK comment threads is that a lot of folks don't like what the Bible says and rather than dealing with that, prefer to malign Christians for reading the Bible and believing it."

                Reading vrs comprehension.  As stated above, I believe you give Christians too much credit.  Its nothing but a Sunday country club where people go to either develop more hate or find pusillanimous forgiveness for their lack of actions.

                •  I believe most Americans were raised on KJV (0+ / 0-)

                  and Early Modern English is quite a slog for the average Joe, as seen by anyone trying to read Shakespeare.   As far as the modern translations, I note that there are significant differences in the nuances of many passages between the different versions trying to render the texts into Modern English

              •  One of the more amusing aspects of Luther's (0+ / 0-)

                translation was that a Dr. Eck had also come out with a version of the Bible and the two of them had it out in what was a theological slugfest.  As I remember from my German classes, Eck's version was closer to the original text but was stilted and wooden where Luther's was more faithful to the original (it has been 40 years since I studied this).  Most amusing was Eck's reference to Luther as "Luder" and Luther reciprocated by calling him "DrEck".  

          •  you can get both kinds of Get Out of Hell Free" (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            G2geek

            cards these days. I hadn't seen the rainbow ones before, but every few years someone comes to our library and spikes the books with the "religious" monopoly cards (hmm..religious monopoly?).

            We are all pupils in the eyes of God.

            by nuclear winter solstice on Fri Jul 18, 2014 at 05:57:57 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Salvation through faith is a core doctrine of (0+ / 0-)

          Protestantism. Unless you count the 16th Century as recent, it isn't new at all.
             And there is plenty of Biblical evidence for the idea that, unless the believer repudiates his/her belief, salvation is permanent.  John 3:16 is the key verse there.
             Protestants assume that humans are inherently sinful and prone to do bad things. But all is forgiven if you have faith in Jesus.
             The exceptions, of course, are the denominations that descend from Calvinism, which believe that only the "elect" get into paradise. And there is the closely related doctrine of predestination, meaning that everything that happens is already predestined, including your salvation or lack of it.

            I think that evangelicals are attracting more followers because not because they make salvation easier, but because their churches are more active and constitute communities of likeminded individuals who share worship on Sunday and Wednesday, along with "fellowship" (as in church socials, etc.)
          Their services tend to be energetic and exciting.
            The mainline churches (including the S. Baptists) with their dreary, repetitive services, are dwindling as their members age.
            The Roman Catholic Church would also be in decline wer it not for the infusion of immigrants from Catholic countries.
             While the RCC believes in salvation through faith and works, it also has a "get out of Hell free" card. A priest can absolve you of your sins and, in fact, does so regularly.
               

      •  i'm with you: looking at all of the... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        VirginiaJeff, Emmy

        .... anti-Christian comments on DK, it's clear that they represent a kind of bigotry that arises directly in response to those who are abusing the label of Christianity for purposes of dominating and discriminating etc.  (When I catch one that's particularly egregious I typically say "try substituting the word 'Jews' in that sentence and see how it sounds.")

        You're probably aware of Dominionism, if not, go to Talk2Action.org and read up, they are the leading site publishing about the religious right.  

        We got the future back. Uh-oh.

        by G2geek on Fri Jul 18, 2014 at 04:44:36 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  As an atheist I can tell you it is not bigotry ... (0+ / 0-)

          As an atheist I can tell you it is not bigotry that drives us to attack religion. Bigotry implies that the hostility towards religion is dogmatic, it is not. It is due to the incredible amount of damage religion has done to our species and continues to do. Frustration over the daily push by the right towards theocracy. When you step outside of religion it becomes blindingly apparent religion is probably the worst thing the human mind ever conceived. I don't make a habit of attacking religious people but I take issue with our hostility towards religion being called bigotry.

  •  there is a war on Christianity but the odd thing (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    G2geek

    is most American Christians are happily oblivious to the actual persecution of Coptics and  Chaldeans, among other sects, in countries such as Iraq, Egypt, China and even Israel:
    http://www.christianpost.com/...
    http://www.jpost.com/...

    In the list of countries where Christians are found to be persecuted (putting aside the reasons for this persecution which vary) many of the countries are either failed states (which the US had some hand in destabilizing) where there is very little law or government control or else are our allies who can do no wrong.

    It is interesting the Christian media is very concerned about persecution of American Christians (which usually means they are blocked from imposing their beliefs upon nonbelievers) and a few select foreign Christians such as the Iranian minister who insists on proselytizing.
    (Christian activism in countries which do not tolerate proselytizing by any religion is not a good idea.  A local minister here was jailed some years ago for trying to smuggle .22 ammo into Russia.  He still can't explain what he was doing)      

  •  Nah. Nobody patented or copyrighted (2+ / 0-)

    Christian and/or what it means. Nobody has ever been empowered or authorized to do so. Christians are people who call themselves that, people who feel that, in some way or another, they believe in a particular psuedohistorical figure as some sort of savior.

    There is, however a war on xtianity and all theist religions.  Decade by decade, at a tortuously slow trickle, science, reason and emiricism are making impressions on the younger generations, and old superstitions are steadily losing adherents.

    Palmists, numerologists, astrologers and that ilk will vanish into obscurity first, and then all other magik based belief systems. The sole question is whether the human race will survive enough generations for it to occur.

    That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

    by enhydra lutris on Fri Jul 18, 2014 at 04:14:37 PM PDT

    •  ..in the year 2525, if man is still alive.. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      enhydra lutris

      We are all pupils in the eyes of God.

      by nuclear winter solstice on Fri Jul 18, 2014 at 05:59:03 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Plz don't hijack a diary for your proselytizing. (0+ / 0-)

      The Kos community includes people from various religions. None of them are attacking you for non-belief.

      Stephen Colbert does superb satire. Pity those offended by it.

      by VirginiaJeff on Fri Jul 18, 2014 at 08:45:57 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Nor am I attacking any of them for their (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        blueoasis

        belief.

        That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

        by enhydra lutris on Fri Jul 18, 2014 at 09:35:49 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes, you did exactly that. (0+ / 0-)

          A member of this community wrote a diary pushing back against the rightwing's representation of Christianity. You attempted to divert the discussion by denigrating Christianity and other religions are "old superstitions."

          Stephen Colbert does superb satire. Pity those offended by it.

          by VirginiaJeff on Sat Jul 19, 2014 at 05:24:33 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Nope, and I did not proselytize either. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Mirthandirxiii

            A person wrote a diary invoking the "war on religion" trope and using that to engage in the classic "my version is the one true version and the others are false" "no true Christian" fallacy.

            I pointed out that said fallacy is hopeless, that nobody has the right or authority to declare what Christianity is and isn't and that all who perceive themselves as Christians are.

            I then pointed out that the so-called war on /Christianity/religion, as evidenced by increasing numbers of "none of the above" in polls isn't a case of other religions attacking Christianity or of atheists and agnostics attacking religion, but of learning, education and progress undermining religion.

            As we have come to understand the world we have discarded the sun, moon, wind, ocean and harvest gods, we no longer need these hypothetical sentient willful entities to explain the workings of the cycles of the days and years, the occurrence of rains and storms and variations in the amount of our harvests.

            We, as a species, are similarly discarding numerology, phrenology, palmistry and even astrology. The younger generations are less inclined to turn to these supernatural, extranormal, extraordinary (or whatever the hell word you find acceptable) explanations and justifications of reality.

            This, however, isn't due to some war against the supernatural, but simply ever increasing understanding that has made resort to such explanations and justifications unnecessary..

            If anybody is proselytizing here, technically, it is the diarist with the "my version is the true faith" and ditto for attacking others indirectly by attacking their beliefs. I simply pointed out that the so called attack on religion is a conclusion drawn from the effect of learning about and understanding our world.

            If you can come up with a word encompassing all of the extraordinary / supernatural theories and approaches to explaining he world, from the Greek, Norse and Roman gods to astrology, alchemy and numerology to augury to today's theist religions, feel free to substitute it for "superstition". Superstition is not, fwiw, inherently pejorative, it is a descriptive term encompassing the entirety of all beliefs in some form of supernatural causality, and is only pejorative if you, personally, find belief in supernatural causality to be somehow pejorative. That's entirely on you.

            That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

            by enhydra lutris on Sat Jul 19, 2014 at 07:31:57 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  TLDR. Next diary, DBAD. eom (0+ / 0-)

              Stephen Colbert does superb satire. Pity those offended by it.

              by VirginiaJeff on Sat Jul 19, 2014 at 11:18:30 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Take your own advice, I wasn't and didn't. (0+ / 0-)

                You, however, have been ab initio with your bogus assertion that I was proselytizing and your subsequent garbage that I was attacking people.

                TLDR is shorthand for "I'm just being a dick, raising nonsensical bullshit points and ignoring any rebuttals".

                BTW, if you really think that belief in supernatural causation is somehow somehow so out of it that saying somebody engages in it is an insult, you really shouldn't shout that out in a diary about Christianity, ya know, becasue its part and parcel of the package and you just insulted the hell out of them all.

                That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

                by enhydra lutris on Sat Jul 19, 2014 at 11:32:52 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

    •  Seppuku: the a war on Samurai (0+ / 0-)

      it involves weapons and the premeditated slaughter of Samurai

      personally, I can't stomach it

    •  I disagree. The rise in astrology, New Age beliefs (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      willard landreth

      and spiritualism is a function of the decline in Christianity.
         Science is hard and boring.
         People are religious not because they want explanations of physical phenomena but because they instinctively feel that there is something beyond our physical life. Science doesn't address that.
         

      •  That's only half of it. Phrenology, Augury, (0+ / 0-)

        Palmistry and all of that aren't looking for someting beyond life, but for answers. So the panoply of Greek gods and a grat many other early gods.

        Yes, humans fear the dark, and look for some solution to all of the existential issues, but that is far from the sole foundation of or prop for all of the supernaturalist belief systems that have and still do inhabit the globe.

        Foa all of the "what's your sign, man" crap of the fifties and sixties, that was just a holdover and continuation. Kids born in the forties and fifties were brought up on that crap, it wa taken for granted by their parents, but even in the sixties, all that garbage nothwistanding, it was already in decline. A lot fewer people took it seriously than used it as an ice-breaker.

        That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

        by enhydra lutris on Sat Jul 19, 2014 at 08:19:27 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Well said, Dovie. (nt) (0+ / 0-)

    Stephen Colbert does superb satire. Pity those offended by it.

    by VirginiaJeff on Fri Jul 18, 2014 at 08:42:26 PM PDT

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