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Short angry diary.....A rant...

You misogynistic BASTARD!

So, you would punish MEN by raping their WOMEN? That it is a good "deterrent"? That it is the way it works in your part of the world? It isn't enough for you to bomb the hell out of women and children, starve them, keep them in poverty, now you want to violate their bodies and their minds all to teach their MEN a lesson?

We are NOT tools for you to use to get your way you giant prick! Honestly, did you Israelis learn NOTHING from your own Holocaust other than how to do the same thing to others?

~~~~~~~~~

Second update below the fold.

UPDATED II:  

Okay, I lit a fire. I let it burn. And, I’ve had a good cry over this. Yes, I AM emotional. And thank you to those who have been defending me throughout this thread at the risk of your own reputations. I truly appreciate it.

Someone asked me if I had experienced rape. Why that matters escapes me, but no, I have been lucky. I have not been raped…..yet.  But I have been hit. I have been economically trapped. I have been verbally and emotionally abused since I was a girl.

I’m a 60 year-old widow. I never used to consider myself a feminist. I was too busy working…I worked HARD. I have been a construction carpenter and built homes and commercial buildings in Kansas, Colorado and Texas. I have run maintenance departments for hospitals. I worked my way up and became an Occupational Safety and Security Director at the corporate level. All male dominated professions.

And every man in my life in one way or another has let me down. Every. Single. One. Father, brothers, husbands, bosses, men who at one time I considered friends. All of them.

Am I bitter? Hell yes! Am I angry? How can I NOT be angry? And it isn’t just for me. I am angry for my granddaughters. They are only little girls….4 and almost 2. And their lives are not going to be any better than mine. They may even have it worse than I have had.

Women around the world, not just in the US or Canada, are going backwards….and who is dragging us there? I leave that question open for you to answer.

Some in this thread want to HR me…or get me banned. I guess that is how they handle things they don’t like to be confronted with. Things that make them uncomfortable to think about they want censored. So much for free speech? Free for me but not for thee, eh?

I will not apologise for the way I feel. And NO not ALL men are bastards…but those who are not are way too few. And men DO run this world. And those who claim they do not have any power don’t know what not having power really is. It’s called “male privilege”….

Are their healthcare choices being legislated? Are THEY being told to sit down, shut up and be nice? Are they earning less money than women? Are they being beaten and/or killed by the hundreds of thousands by those who claim to love them?

Are they considered “evil” or “unclean” by their respective religions? Are elected officials and big mouthed shock jocks making moral pronouncements about their behavior?

I have pointed this out in several places and no one has seemed to notice it…so I am going to highlight this… All around the world, if a woman is raped, she is likely to be dismissed as lying by the male dominated justice system at best, and at worst, killed by their men for “allowing” themselves to be raped. Are men treated in this same way?

Are they being shot in the face for daring to want an education? Are they being kidnapped en-mass by religious fundamentalists, sold into ”marriage” and forced to convert their religion? Are they being held in basement dungeons and tortured for decades in the US and elsewhere as sex slaves?

Maybe a few. But the number is miniscule compared to the suffering of women in this world.

At one time women were revered and held as true equals to men. We brought life into this world and were respected for it. Women were leaders and healers, teachers and hunters, farmers and crafts persons. And then somehow things got way out of balance. Men became afraid of women’s power. Why I have no idea. But it is clear that they did. A great deal of effort was put into re-writing history, the Bible and other religious texts that held women as equal. Those women who had intelligence and talent and were outspoken, those who were old and had experience, those who were too pretty and considered too sexual…well 300 years of genocide took care of them.

Some archeologists tend to think that women were the drivers/inventors of agriculture, language, and the tools of civilization. And yet today we have less of a say in our lives and the lives of our children than did our Paleolithic sisters.

What the hell happened? How did things get so out of balance…? What are men so afraid of that when confronted about the misogyny in this world that they rush to silence women like me when we become angry about being treated like a tool of war? Why are they so defensive if they have nothing to be ashamed of?

I have been accused of promoting hate. I don’t hate men. I AM angry at them as a whole, because while many claim to want things to change… All I see are our societies going backwards for women.

I have been accused of sexism…That makes some really uncomfortable… a taste of what women suffer with DAILY is pretty bitter, isn’t it?

We are objectified and we are marginalized. If we complain we are “overly emotional”. If we stand up for ourselves we are “ball busters” or “bitches”. But men doing the same are considered “macho” or “aggressive” or “a straight shooter” or….well, you get the idea…IOIYAM…..

I am sure I will get blasted for this update too. For some nothing short of my declaring defeat and deleting this diary in the face of THEIR outrage will do….I say to them….don’t hold your breath.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Hey cool. Israeli anchor babies. (4+ / 1-)
    Recommended by:
    SaraBeth, corvo, run around, Diane Gee
    Hidden by:
    BFSkinner

    /snark tag ain't strong enough

    Thump! Bang. Whack-boing. It's dub!

    by dadadata on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 04:18:02 AM PDT

  •  All Men Are Bastards? (9+ / 0-)

    Well, personally I've been very vocal against Israel's colonial apartheid state, which now seems to have rape on the table as a viable means of oppression- which is just sick. I think, maybe, you might be a tad angry and directing it at all men in general? There are those of us who are working to minimize rape culture in the US, to various levels of effort but I think you might be hard pressed to find one leftist man who supports a wartime rape policy let alone any sort of rape.

    •  Jonathon ~ (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Silencio

      As a man you have far more power than any woman does...so what is it you have DONE other than "speaking out" against your brothers who are doing so much evil in this world?

      And yes...I am BEYOND angry...  if this is a "Man's World" as we are told from the time we are born.... then I hold ALL men accountable for the chaos in the world.

    •  Umm... (3+ / 0-)
      Israel's colonial apartheid state, which now seems to have rape on the table as a viable means of oppression
      Source? Cuz one idiot professor mouthing off is surely not the equivalent of a policy being "on the table."
    •  As a relieved widow, who spent (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Silencio, SaraBeth

      only 14 years waiting hand and foot on a man who promised me I'd be able to stay home and make art and who, in that time, forgot how to draw and even forgot why I had once considered myself creative (other than writing), as a worker in rape crisis counselling centers, as a volunteer in safe houses (the last two prior to marrying); as a rape survivor, I have to say this.  

      Being a thug or a bully, while not gender specific, is also not role specific.  It isn't sexual orientation specific, either.

      That having been said, my experience is that more men than women have a strong violation streak in them, and it plays out in their demeaning of women both figuratively or allegorically and physically; and when doing that, they also demean anyone they can climb on top of emotionally or physically, including all children and other men, and anything perceived as "not self".. people with different color skins, different or lacking religions, other *species.

      In order to live depedent on them for food, shelter, safety, women and children will ape or adopt or ape their beliefs and behavior and harm others as well.

      Nationalism is an example of that. Fascism is an example of that. Extreme beliefs are examples of that.

      I think men are different from women.. call it lizard brain or whatever that anthropologist misnamed it. I think men  dominate what women create.  And as such, and having done my time in servitude, I mistrust most men.. and many of their women... and prefer to create and live apart from many of you.  I'm tired of the violation on every level.

  •  Hey, you're angry. Understood. (7+ / 0-)

    But the brush you're wielding right now isn't that much different from the one you're reacting to.

    I'd bet that you have waaaaaay more support than you think - but demonizing half of the population of the planet won't bring it out.

    And FWIW, what makes you think that only women would be subject to that kind of punishment? Remember: it's about power, not sex.

    Strengthen the Senate! ROCK THE HOUSE!

    by mwm341 on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 04:32:05 AM PDT

    •  mwm241 ~ (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Euroliberal, Silencio, Johnny Q
      And FWIW, what makes you think that only women would be subject to that kind of punishment? Remember: it's about power, not sex.
      Because this professor SAID it would be women he would target?  I take that at face value...and yes...rape IS about power and not sex...MALE power over WOMEN. A woman raped in the ME is often killed by their male family members because she "let" herself be raped.... so who wins here?

      And more importantly...who loses?

      And if you don't like the paint job...then DO SOMETHING TANGIABLE about it. You men have taken all of the power, reducing women down to little more than servants and incubators..so if you have the power then use it and put a stop the chaos, or wear the same paint. If you are not part of the solution then you are part of the problem.

       

      •  I SAID 'would be' . You weren't paying attention. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Smoh, GAKeynesian

        Aand get your head around the idea that the declaration of half the planet as 'other' is the trap that you're trying to get/stay out of, that the professor AND the Israeli government seem set on getting into, and that too many other Middle Eastern nations seem set on staying inside, at least for the moment.

        If you really want to focus your anger (a tightly-focused, well-aimed anger is more effective than a barely-coherent broad-brush one ANY day of the week), there are some really easy places to start fairly close to home.

        That doesn't mean to say that we shouldn't be against war and inequality I'm all its forms, but an acknowledgement of the fact that every hand - EVERY hand, yours AND mine - is needed if we want to fix it in a way that is durable and permanent.

        As for this professor: It's hard to separate what's right (lasting peace and real equality) from what I want (it involves a white plastic hood and a large zip-tie). The equality I'd look for involves respect, giving a damn, and sharing of both risk and reward as appropriate.

        I'm very much on YOUR side in this, but I reject the scope of the distinctions that you seem to be making.

        Strengthen the Senate! ROCK THE HOUSE!

        by mwm341 on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 06:36:14 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  "You men" Really? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mwm341

        Okay, you just made a blatantly false jab at every man ever. I don't have to  blow a hole in the professor's skull to dislike what he's doing. And I'm seriously debating HRing you for this bit of crap:

        And if you don't like the paint job...then DO SOMETHING TANGIABLE about it. You men have taken all of the power, reducing women down to little more than servants and incubators..so if you have the power then use it and put a stop the chaos, or wear the same paint. If you are not part of the solution then you are part of the problem.
        •  GAK (I never liked Keynes or thought he (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          SaraBeth

          was intelligent or right, but that's some other debate), Sarabeth did NOT make a blatantlh false jab at every man ever.

          However, while we're at it, show me ONE single country in which women are all the government heads of departments, states, families, power, etc...

          Not one?

          Then she's A LOT CLOSER TO RIGHT than you might like.  Threatening to HR this diarist and going whinging to  Markos et al could certainly be seen as more than a bit self-serving, seems to me.  

          Perhaps "Progression" is more demonstrably equalist than you care to actually become?  Could that be it? It's something to consider.

          I admit a bias toward women and creativity, but then I worship the creativity that is missing in the male anatomy, IMNSHO.

          She was also addressing one man and suggesting that he and others like him might want to do thus and so.  Are you one of those guys?  

          •  Yes, she did make a false jab. (0+ / 0-)
            You men have taken all of the power, reducing women down to little more than servants and incubators..
            She's saying every man did that. Hence "you men".
            However, while we're at it, show me ONE single country in which women are all the government heads of departments, states, families, power, etc...
            This, while important (I would support women having an equal shot at being at the top) is irrelevant to the discussion. She claimed all men are bastards, and that we've removed all the power of women. Despite the fact that most men on this site and in the U.S. In general support equal rights for women.
            "Progression" is more demonstrably equalist than you care to actually become?  Could that be it? It's something to consider.
            I'd be fine with actual equality. Not sure what caused you to question whether or not I am. Does equality mean she gets to make absurd blanket statements about men and not be called on it?

            As far as your bias and anatomical preferences, that's irrelevant as well but I don't disagree. And on the note of the HR 'threat' it wasn't really a threat. A threat would be 'post one more sexist comment and I'll hr you so hard your great great grandchildren will feel the pixel burn.' Or something a little less silly. And I never threatened to bring Markos into it. I honestly think Markos would rather not even be brought up in this discussion, but I've never dealt personally with him so I don't know.

            •  She wasn't speaking to you, so she did not mean (0+ / 0-)

              ALL men, since you are hell-bent on taking each statement literally and out of context that might serve your purpose.

              I said eariler and still maintain that many more men than women have a bent toward violent behavior and domination of any and all living thing which they perceive as "not self "and "not all that much like self".

              It's the seed for misogyny, bullying, homophobia, racism, religious extremism, xenophobia, the slaughter of other species to extinction and violent conflict against one's own species.

              It's ENCOURAGED in boys by men.

              Far far more women than men are more often interested in creating, preserving, nurturing than in domination and conflict and slaughter.  We don't make a game out of killing, and WE don't model deities after our sickest emotional urges.

              Claiming "tradition" as some other poster did, is weary bullshit for rape, OR,as some moronic mullah in ISIS has now called for, FGM of all women and girls.

              It's about time "you men", "ALL MEN WHO either passively accept rape or who actively encourage it or commit it, all men who think that making sure sex is painful to all women by mutilating them" should mutilate and rape one another FIRST.

              I see no reason for women to put up with men who battle their anger at rape or to passively put up with men who don't ACTIVELY go after those men who mutilate ANY women for ANY religion or ANY deity or ANY bullshit and specious excuse.

              •  Margaret Thatcher, Indira Gandhi, (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                GAKeynesian

                Golda Meir, Elizabeth I, Mary, Queen of Scots, Lucretia Borgia, Myra Hindley, Elizabeth Bathory, Catherine the Great, Aileen Wuornos, Rosemary West, Delphine LaLaurie, Charlene Gallego, Catherine Birnie.....  Want more? I got lots. So don't bother with the stuff about women being more interested in creating, preserving etc. It's crap.

                Encouraged in boys by men? Look up the history of the Kray brothers.

                And drop the 'you men' stuff; even the 'ALL MEN who...' stuff. It's just more of the sexist garbage that you're complaining about having to endure;  turnabout is NOT fair play.

                Strengthen the Senate! ROCK THE HOUSE!

                by mwm341 on Thu Jul 24, 2014 at 01:35:05 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

  •  it was an asshole comment. Your response that (7+ / 0-)

    all men are evil isn't helpful either, although your anger is understood and shared.

    You should probably delete the diary, re-read, think about what you actually intend to say, then repost.

  •  I am a man (5+ / 0-)

    You are angry and rightly so.

    I take no offense.

    I understand and the least I can do is tolerate even the excesses of your righteous indignation.

  •  please delete this diary - (6+ / 0-)

    we don't need it - what you say is not helpful - nor is your choice of words and their meaning acceptable -

    I hope this diary will be HR'd by the admins.

    We know a hell of a lot, but we understand very little. Manfred Max-Neef

    by mimi on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 05:05:00 AM PDT

    •  So...what should be the response to (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Silencio, Johnny Q

      using rape as a tool of war?  

      Is that acceptable to you mimi?  

      •  Nobody is taking this clown seriously (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Justanothernyer

        Criticize him, shame him. He doesn't represent all men and he surely doesn't represent Israeli policy, despite the attempts of some here to pretend that he does.

      •  How old are you? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Namazga III

        I don't take your question as an offense, though I could, considering that members of my family were victims of rapes in war.

        One answer would be to fight against wars. Your rhetoric doesn't sound like a person who wants peace.

        Your emotions are understandable, but voiced in that manner you have them posted here, a boomerang to your intended goals.

        We know a hell of a lot, but we understand very little. Manfred Max-Neef

        by mimi on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 05:33:01 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I'm 60 years old.... (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mimi, Silencio, a2nite

          and a grandmother to two beautiful granddaughters who I don't want to be raped for ANY reason....

          How old should I be to express my rage anywhere I damn well please?

          •  ok, you are very upset and (3+ / 0-)

            of course you can vent off your anger here. I am 66 and know (inside out) how mother-child bonds and emotions are always used as a tool to destroy both. If someone is up to hurt you, be it in war or otherwise, they do it - almost by default and reflexive -. I just try to tell you that your rant doesn't help, even if it is emotionally understandable.

            It's too sexist and you also couldn't stay away from mentioning "that Israeli learn nothing from their own Holocaust". Unless you are an Israeli yourself, I would think that this sentence shouldn't be posted.

            Women have always been raped in wars, children have always been emotionally tortured to watch their mothers being threatened by rape or having to watch it. Children have been forced to accept or engage in torturing their mothers or parents. It's very well known. To fight those who enable, engage in or indirectly support policies of those people who are engaged in these most evil atrocities is one thing that unfortunately isn't achieved by losing your nerves and shouting out your emotions Unfortunately, may be. But wars are started in arousing emotions for the most part to the point where people get violent and cruel. I wouldn't add oil to the fire, that's all.

            We know a hell of a lot, but we understand very little. Manfred Max-Neef

            by mimi on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 06:10:51 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  "...Women have always been raped in wars..." (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Silencio, Johnny Q, SaraBeth, dadadata

              The diarist is outraged. I'm sure she knows all that and I'm sure she realizes, deep in her heart, that not all men are responsible for this despicable Israeli teacher.
                 But, come on, the guy is advocating crimes against humanity. Of course the diarist is pissed!
                 Too bad she didn't bother to put it all in the context of all the other war crimes in history, or that she painted men with too broad a brush. But this professor inspires legitimate outrage.
                Hopefully, there will be an accounting for war crimes one day, and this guy will face charges for propaganda that incites crimes against humanity.

            •  You talk about rape as tradition. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              SaraBeth

              TRADITIONS CHANGE...

              When they don't change, they become the record of long-dead fossils.

              You just called everyone fossils.

              Wups... so much for progressive discussion.

            •  What? (0+ / 0-)
              "....you also couldn't stay away from mentioning "that Israeli learn nothing from their own Holocaust". Unless you are an Israeli yourself, I would think that this sentence shouldn't be posted."
              So because I am not Jewish I cannot have any thoughts or opinions about the Holocaust? I am not denying that it happened... I shouldn't wonder about lessons learned, or more importantly, NOT LEARNED, from it....? Can you get more mealy mouthed?
          •  I just read your update - (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Smoh, mwm341

            I wouldn't conclude what you did - that "The truth just cannot be faced by some apparently."

            I wonder if you have "faced" the truth, meaning did you personally live through atrocities like that?

            Contrary I believe that those who have "faced" those truths, faced it really very well, in real life, going through it, being victimized personally - don't need "compassionate shouting diaries" by those who haven't faced those atrocities in reality and are imagining the situation in their minds only and use it as a "moralizing rhetorical tool".

            We know a hell of a lot, but we understand very little. Manfred Max-Neef

            by mimi on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 06:18:47 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  You really do seem to have a recurring problem (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Silencio, SaraBeth

              when people express their feelings. I have seen you make this kind of strongly repressive reaction in other places. Personally I feel that people opening up emotionally is a psychologically healthy thing to do. If you don't enjoy listening to it you can simply ignore it. I fail to see how you are being harmed by it.

              •  Not exactly healthy (0+ / 0-)

                Especially is such emotion is rage. Rage is an addictive emotion.

                Explains the tea-party a lot.

              •  "A psychologically healthy thing to do"... (0+ / 0-)

                I was under the illusion that this was a discussion forum.

                Turns out it's a therapy group.

                Sorry...

                Strengthen the Senate! ROCK THE HOUSE!

                by mwm341 on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 12:56:17 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  You really haven't gotten around (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  SaraBeth, Silencio, Restinbones

                  much on Daily Kos. The place is full of community diaries dealing with people's feelings about a wide variety of matters. The IGTNT series is given official sanction and protection from distracting comments.  

                  •  Richard, I think I'm going to agree with mwm341 (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    mwm341

                    on this, though I'm rather surprised I'm doing it. A good rant is exactly that - it focuses on something specific, and trashes it up one side and down the other. It doesn't broaden out to trashing the commenters unless they get really ridiculous. In this case, most of the commenters have been fairly moderate, and they've still caught backlash.

                    This was certainly a good subject for a rant, but there seems to be other stuff propelling the comments, and I could wish we knew what it was. I've stayed out of it, because what do you say that isn't fuel for this particular fire?

                    mouseover the bar (I'm practicing for DK5)

                    by serendipityisabitch on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 04:01:00 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  My particular comment here (3+ / 0-)

                      concerned the validity of people expressing feelings on Daily Kos. The comment I was responding to was claiming that it is not an appropriate site for that. I think that is clearly at variance with the reality of what goes on here.

                      Since I didn't see the diary before it was edited, I am limited in my ability to place this particular situation in its full context.  

                      •  I think it is a fine site for expressing feelings. (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Richard Lyon, Silencio

                        I think a great deal of good has been done in that vein, and some positive results gained.

                        I also know that when feelings are expressed, they can either shut off discussion or enhance it, depending on how they are expressed. This particular expression doesn't seem to be enhancing anything, except possibly a firefight.

                        I didn't see the original diary either, but I've just read through the update and left a general comment here.

                        mouseover the bar (I'm practicing for DK5)

                        by serendipityisabitch on Thu Jul 24, 2014 at 07:30:13 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                      •  Nothing wrong with expressing feelings (0+ / 0-)

                        But LOTS wrong with the collective guilt/collective blame thing. When you combine that with victim psychology, you create or enable something that is toxic to us all.

                        Which brings us back to the item that apparently precipitated your initial anger as expressed in your original diary.

                        Strengthen the Senate! ROCK THE HOUSE!

                        by mwm341 on Thu Jul 24, 2014 at 07:36:41 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

            •  I've not only lived through rape and violent (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              SaraBeth, Richard Lyon

              conflict, I'm 66, and am FAR angrier than Sarabeth about the mouthings of this fascist Israeli zionist thug.  He's trying to start a world war over his religion, and it's as STUPID as the domestic xtian terrorists in the US and ISIS is to Islam.

              What strikes me as sickening, is that you want her diary HR'd by the creator of this discussion format and his staff.  

              That is SO far from "progressive discussion" that it's truly childish and unrealistic.

              Have you ever seen how raped women are treated by Muslims?  have you ever seen how raped women are STILL treated in the US by a *shitload of "fine urpstading xtian" t*rds in the US?  They're treated the same way little girls are who're labelled "easy" by bullies in school, "mimi".

              Maybe it's time you took of your blinders and stopped whinging when you see something that makes you squick.

    •  No, she should not delete it (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SaraBeth, Silencio

      All of you who go running to Markos about HRing things and people is censorship by comfort level, and it's neither a progressive thing to do, NOR a humane thing to do.

      It smacks of tweeting and other shallow cellphone frippery instead of any degree of actual deep thought.

      Do you seriously think that anyone fed up with fascism and the rape culture that is born of misogyny, homophobia, religionism and racism are non-thought and non-progressive?

      IF THEY UPSET YOU, then maybe you should BE upset.  If you are moved to turn your head away, maybe you should HAVE TO LOOK and HAVE to do something about it personally....

      shunning a truth-speaker.. an angry one, in fact... is the act of an ostrich. Surely you don't intend to be an ostrich.

      •  Bigoted Bullshit Sensing System now active (0+ / 0-)

        Unjustified generalization alert on first paragraph.
        Blatant subjectivity alert on second paragraph.
        Argument hijack trap attempt detected in 3rd paragraph.
        Blatant subjectivity alert on fourth paragraph.
        Undefined term 'truth-speaker' detected: possible subjectivity alert in fifth paragraph.
        Inappropriate characterization (name-calling) in fifth paragraph.

        ---- NOMEX underwear ON ----

        Netanyahu mode active: Donut launch in 3...2...1...

        Strengthen the Senate! ROCK THE HOUSE!

        by mwm341 on Thu Jul 24, 2014 at 09:28:18 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Even though I am an agnostic............. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SaraBeth, Silencio, Johnny Q

    AMEN, Sister!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  •  Worst Diary Day is THURSDAY (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mwm341

    All submissions must be posted by five pm.

    "Ronald Reagan is DEAD! His policies live on but we're doing something about THAT!"

    by leftykook on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 05:17:47 AM PDT

  •  Here is a recent academic paper on the topic (5+ / 0-)

    With a specific focus on Israel and Martial Rape, abhorrent term as it is.  While reported extensively in 1948 as a method to force the displacement of the Arabs, since then, reports of "martial rape" committed by Israel has been nearly non-existant.   Despite this shithead's views.

    https://repository.library.georgetown.edu/...

    Alarming are the reports of renewed home demolitions as "deterrent" for terror attacks, with the burden borne largely by women.  Security experts are convinced it is not effective as a deterrent, even counterproductive, but it is back.

  •  When a friend of mine was raped in high school ... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Killer, Smoh, mwm341

    When a friend of mine was raped in high school I nearly beat the guy who did it to death and there is another rapist I am forever on the lookout for(god help him if I ever see him). To lump all men together with the likes of the human waste you speak of here is a show of ignorance, some of us who take this just as serious as you do.

    •  Sorry if that makes you uncomforable... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Silencio, a2nite

      there are too few man who do take this as serious...and beating up one or two rapists is addressing the immediate crime...but where is the male political will to stop the wars and the abuse of women and children?

      Where are the men teaching young men that violence of any kind is NOT acceptable....?  There are some, of course...but not nearly enough.

      •  Why (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Smoh, mwm341

        are you apologizing for feelings Mithrandir neither wrote nor inferred? I feel like you are projecting your belief about men's attitudes onto anyone that disagrees with your blanket statements.

        "I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night..."

        by Killer on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 05:50:48 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  You're on a progressive site. (0+ / 0-)
        ...but where is the male political will to stop the wars and the abuse of women and children?
        I'd say most of the men here favor stopping the wars and ending the abuses of women and children.
        •  Yeah, and what have the done about it? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Restinbones

          Men hold the power in this world....y'all talk a good game...so...why do we still have war?

          •  Women STILL are the ones (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            GAKeynesian

            who spend more (MUCH more) time with kids when they're small, for good or bad - so what are THEY doing to shut down the idea that war is safe, clean or reasonable?  

            Sorry, but you asked for that. I mean, if we're doing snark...

            Strengthen the Senate! ROCK THE HOUSE!

            by mwm341 on Thu Jul 24, 2014 at 07:42:27 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  It's hard for women to combat the (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Silencio, Restinbones

              male dominated media that glorifies war, the objectification of women and all that goes with it. You teach a kid not to hit others, and then they are exposed to violence in all kinds of media... they go to school and are subjected to violent sports and "teams" that prepare them for being good little soldiers...

              The odds are stacked against moms who teach their kids one thing....when the male dominated society is teaching them the exact opposite on multiple levels.

              •  (Individual) viewpoint might be an issue here (0+ / 0-)

                The fact women (or anybody else) exist is no argument for complaining and walking away,  It's an argument for raising the standard, no?

                If we teach our kids not to hit others, and then they ARE hit by others - we've failed our kids by giving them only half of the lesson. If they hit others, we've also failed them - they didn't get the lesson.

                As for team sports? Hold teachers and coaches responsible for any and all injuries; that will changes quickly.

                And if the media is pumping out that kind of material? Sell the TV and spend reading, talking, listening, interacting with kids and others, with yourself and others as examples.

                Strengthen the Senate! ROCK THE HOUSE!

                by mwm341 on Thu Jul 24, 2014 at 10:49:28 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  And what about their friends houses... (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Silencio

                  with their TVs? And their computers? And magazines, and books, and....and....and...

                  You make it all sound so easy... have you tried it?

                  •  Yes. And it works (0+ / 0-)

                    But  there's nothing wrong with using magazines, books, libraries, gardens, martial arts, movies, hikes, photography, power tools, math, physics,chemistry, boats, subway systems, maps or balloons. Even TV if you like, used judiciously. The only limits are your time and imagination.

                    Works really well, but I grant you that it's not easy. Does it have to be?

                    Strengthen the Senate! ROCK THE HOUSE!

                    by mwm341 on Thu Jul 24, 2014 at 01:10:59 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

          •  Because people, women included, (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            mwm341

            Are bloodthirsty assholes and most of them, women included, don't have any fucking empathy, especially in this country. You heard it most post-9/11. We lost thousands to a horrific bombing. We felt the emotional pain and turmoil of it. Yet what was our solution? The consensus, among men AND women was that we should go slaughter and bomb some Arabs so they had to suffer as we did.

            And no, men don't have all the power so quit spreading that lie. We hold a disproportionate amount, yes, and the progressive community is working to fix that. But women like Janet Yellen, Elizabeth Warren, and Hillary Clinton hold massive amounts of power in this country. The issue isn't just men. War isn't the fault of just men. Where I live, it was almost EVERYONE cheerleading the wars.

            •  In regard to your repeated claim that: (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              SaraBeth
              And no, men don't have all the power so quit spreading that lie.

              You may bray until you eruct hay that it's a lie and it still won't BE a lie.

              You're pretty much repeated every fictive you've written and are left with

              "TIS NOT"
              howled at the moon.

              It's comical.

              •  What's comical is your claim (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                mwm341

                That men have absolutely all of the power. We don't. And you can't blame the wars solely on men. It you'd like to attempt to counter either of those points, go ahead. But "no you're wrong" isn't doing it.

  •  Nothing new (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    The Revenge of Shakshuka

    Did you respond to other recent, more declarative/prescriptive, recommendations of rape?

    Islamic cleric decrees it OK for Syrian rebels to rape women
    Iraq crisis: ISIS militants tell families to hand over daughters for sex

    Or is there something especially enraging about having a Jew speculate about the impossibility of stopping violence from people who don't value their own lives?

    This is not a sig-line.

    by Joffan on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 05:54:16 AM PDT

  •  I posted a diary about this too (11+ / 0-)

    Bumper sticker seen on I-95; "Stop Socialism" my response: "Don't like socialism? GET OFF the Interstate highway!"

    by Clytemnestra on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 06:26:34 AM PDT

  •  Clytemnestra covered this story (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Catte Nappe, jan4insight

    … the NSA takes significant care to prevent any abuses and that there is a substantial oversight system in place,” Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-California), said August 23.

    by mosesfreeman on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 06:29:26 AM PDT

  •  This was a thoroughly obnoxious and haetful (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Smoh, SaraBeth, Silencio, jan4insight, Johnny Q

    comment by this man. The fact that he is an Israeli is somewhat incidental. If the truth be known I am sure that you could find no small number of men in different parts of the world with a similar attitude. I strongly doubt that you could find women who would agree with it. It is a problem of cultural sexism and male privilege.

    •  And he's too cowardly to follow his own reasoning (4+ / 0-)

      After saying it's the only way to be safe, it's weasel-hood for the university to say he's not advocating it.

      If he truly believes that the only way for Israel to be safe is to be evil, then he is implicitly saying that the Zionist project is impossible.

      Anyone considering a dog for personal safety should treat that decision as seriously as they would buying a gun.

      by Dogs are fuzzy on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 08:58:24 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  quite the UPDATE... nt (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    serendipityisabitch
  •  So what's with these pro-Israeli intellectuals (7+ / 0-)

    all of a sudden explicitly advocating war crimes?

  •  The comments on your linked article (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jan4insight, IndieGuy, SaraBeth

    are a piece of work unto themselves, suitable for framing.

    Banana Republic: it's not just a clothing store.

    by northbronx on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 08:05:44 AM PDT

  •  Diary rec'd and tipped. (6+ / 0-)

    Very interesting.  SB is catching all kinds of hell because she's angry about an Israeli professor's call to rape women as a war tactic.  Apparently, she's either not supposed to be angry, or to be angry in a way that doesn't threaten men.  

    On the other hand, especially in the I-P diaries, and also in the diary on the child rapist who got beat up in Florida, there were many, many men very angry and not shy about expressing it.  

    So, a woman expressing anger because a public figure calls for rape is unacceptable, over the top.  But men getting angry because of...well, take your pick of topics...that's acceptable.

    Seems I've heard this story before.

    "It ain't so much the things we don't know that get us in trouble. It's the things we know that ain't so." (Artemus Ward)

    by Silencio on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 09:29:28 AM PDT

  •  What a horrible remark. n/t (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SaraBeth
  •  Seriously? This is beyond sick and inhumane. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Silencio, SaraBeth

    If you can't fix stupid does that mean the Republican party will always be broken?

    by gypsyrose on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 09:44:21 AM PDT

  •  T&R'ed after the rewrite. (5+ / 0-)

    Your outrage is justified.

  •  I'm also a person who can rant long and hard. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SaraBeth, serendipityisabitch

    so I've have cut SaraBeth a little slack because of her obvious anger and the raw edges that this kind of statement can touch.

    I'm sympathetic to her feelings, and suspect that I understand more than she thinks I might about them.

    I have a request, though: Can we all stop, take a breath and settle into some kind of civility and blame-free calm so that we can talk, think and learn in some kind of rational way?

    Strengthen the Senate! ROCK THE HOUSE!

    by mwm341 on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 01:28:17 PM PDT

  •  Way to raise the bar, "Dr." Primitif. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    a2nite, Silencio, SaraBeth

    "He went to Harvard, not Hogwarts." ~Wanda Sykes
    Teh Twitterz, I'z awn dem.
    Blessinz of teh Ceiling Cat be apwn yu, srsly.

    by OleHippieChick on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 02:23:02 PM PDT

  •  Tipped & reced (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Silencio, SaraBeth

    I voted Tuesday, May 6, 2014 because it is my right, my responsibility and because my parents moved from Alabama to Ohio to vote. Unfortunately, the republicons want to turn Ohio into Alabama.

    by a2nite on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 03:09:53 PM PDT

  •  I've been mostly staying out of this, but since (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Silencio, mwm341

    you've updated, and doubled down, I think I'll add my buck and a half (inflation, y'know?)

    Rant
    Lots of what you're saying is legitimate. But one thing isn't.

    I have to quote your reply from yesterday:

    Hey....you guys have all of the power it's up to you to use it....or not.

    It's not true.


    If you think it's true, then however angry you are, you're supporting the whole paradigm you're ranting about. Yes, men have power. So do women. As individuals, not a lot, but that's why we reach out for help to do the things we're trying to accomplish.

    Research this. Find who does the funding for the university this idiot works for. Find out ways to influence them, their supporters, their contemporaries. Ask for help finding out. Find out who else is already yelling about it. Decide what you want to do. Ask for help doing it. If what you're trying to do is possible, people will help. Both men and women.

    If you say to men "I am helpless, you must fix this," you're doing nothing to promote a society of equals.

    Yes, some men are jerks. Okay, maybe a lot. But not most. And this is not the way to get them enthusiastic about doing anything. This is the way to get half of them offering sympathy and the other half beating their chests because you've just supported the whole paradigm of rampant masculinity, even as you ranted.

    /Rant over

    mouseover the bar (I'm practicing for DK5)

    by serendipityisabitch on Thu Jul 24, 2014 at 06:55:49 AM PDT

    •  Do you think I don't reach out? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Silencio, Restinbones

      You assume much.  

      •  I think you just said that men had all the power (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Silencio, mwm341

        and they have to fix this. Several times. I'm not assuming anything about you, only reading your words and trying to point out that they do not offer much room for men to respond to you as an equal, even if they are so inclined.

        mouseover the bar (I'm practicing for DK5)

        by serendipityisabitch on Thu Jul 24, 2014 at 07:18:23 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  They DO have ALL of the power.... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          a2nite, Restinbones

          and if you think differently then you are deluded...and a part of the problem...

          •  Well, THAT'S taken me down a peg, hasn't it? (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Silencio, mwm341

            How am I deluded? Perhaps that I do not see a man's primary role as taking care of women? That I think it needs to work both ways?

            How am I part of the problem? I had thought I was doing something when I took an engineering degree, and worked in the field for ten years, and convinced at least a few idiots that women were capable of more than they'd thought. Part of the problem?

            Every man you've ever known has let you down. Possibly because you've had such a high expectation of what men were supposed to be that they couldn't live up to it? Men hurt just as much as we do, are subjected to as enormous pressures in very different ways, are all over the map in how they think of, and relate to, women.

            I see men as people, and we are all flawed. Delusional?

            mouseover the bar (I'm practicing for DK5)

            by serendipityisabitch on Thu Jul 24, 2014 at 08:52:56 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  "How am I part of the problem?" (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Silencio

              Because you are supporting male domination. At least that is how it appears to me.

              "I had thought I was doing something when I took an engineering degree, and worked in the field for ten years, and convinced at least a few idiots that women were capable of more than they'd thought."

              Did you read the part where I worked in a male dominated career ALL OF MY LIFE?  You and your engineering degree...depending upon your age, my construction work probably opened doors for you...

              "Every man you've ever known has let you down. Possibly because you've had such a high expectation of what men were supposed to be that they couldn't live up to it?"
              So, my father and brothers and two out of three husbands were violent alcoholics and I expected better?  Right. Gotcha. My fault. Every boss I had talked down to me like I had no brains, and paid me less than any man? Check...again, all my fault...
              "Men hurt just as much as we do, are subjected to as enormous pressures in very different ways, are all over the map in how they think of, and relate to, women."
              Oh boo fucking hoo... they, and apparently you too, have no idea what hurt really is...
              "I see men as people, and we are all flawed."
              Pity a lot of men don't see you as people...
              "Delusional?"
              Ayup....
              •  Two things: (3+ / 0-)

                I disagree with calling someone delusional when they've presented an articulate case.  You've done that twice, SB, and I'm not with you there.

                Secondly, the fact that men "hurt" has nothing to do with institutionalized sexism.  White people also hurt.  What does that have to do with institutionalized racism?  Sometimes the very reason men "hurt" is because of the very norms and practices that systematically disadvantage women.  For example, a man who's daughter was raped hurts; he hurts even more if a judge blames his daughter for it.  But that in no way establishes an equivalence between their suffering.

                Because members of an oppressor group suffer doesn't mean they are not members of an oppressor group.

                "It ain't so much the things we don't know that get us in trouble. It's the things we know that ain't so." (Artemus Ward)

                by Silencio on Thu Jul 24, 2014 at 11:55:15 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I hear what you are saying.... (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Silencio

                  but I am sick and tired of women apologizing for what men do by comparing their pain to the pain women suffer... Yes, SOME fathers hurt for their daughters...but there are just as many, if not more, out there that will think it was her fault...blame her for dressing "wrong" or for "coming on" to her rapist.

                  And in some place they will kill them to regain their "honor"....

              •  SaraBeth, I've got a few years on you, (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                mwm341

                and I'm damned sure that any doors you opened didn't go in my direction.

                But I'm not putting you down for the work you did, even if you seem determined to minimize mine, simply because I don't choose to put men down in order to see myself as a person.

                You have the chance here, should you so choose, to gain a great many supporters, if you can bear to accept a slightly wider view. Up to you.

                mouseover the bar (I'm practicing for DK5)

                by serendipityisabitch on Thu Jul 24, 2014 at 12:03:46 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  A wider view... (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Restinbones

                  The view that a lot of men view us women as so much trash? To be used, abused and thrown away? To be used as human shields by Islamic militants or Bundy style militias? To have our children blown to bit by an Israeli bomb that just took out a UN run refugee center in Gaza? To be threatened with rape if our men don't conform to the standards of other men? To be blamed when men are so weak they cannot be trusted to keep it in their pants and so women have to be mutilated to prevent "infidelity"?

                  I'm sorry... I just cannot understand why every woman on the planet isn't up in arms about the very real HARM men do to us and our children, everyday and in every way....

                  What is it I am missing here?

                  •  I love the smell of (0+ / 0-)

                    victim psychology in the morning...

                    Strengthen the Senate! ROCK THE HOUSE!

                    by mwm341 on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 04:55:45 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  You really should stop pretending (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Restinbones, Silencio

                      to be a psychologist....

                      •  1> Never said I was one (0+ / 0-)

                        2> I'm not one.
                        3> I don't even play one on TV.

                        None of which invalidates my statement. Would you prefer it if I said that your statement smacks of the same kind of bigotry that you denounce so loudly? Because it does.

                        Strengthen the Senate! ROCK THE HOUSE!

                        by mwm341 on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 07:33:13 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  "None of which invalidates my statement." (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          Silencio

                          Your condescension invalidates every dismissive shitty little word you've written.

                          When you stop trying to throw a leg over the writer, your posts might be worth reading.  As things stand now, your continued sniping at Sarabeth's person through the comments to her diary you didn't like is exactly like the stray hound in the alley's desperate attempt to have the last little yelp as the distant police chase recedes.

                          •  (indirect) namecalling. (0+ / 0-)

                            My statements earlier in this thread have been supportive of parts and rejecting of the scope of some other pieces of content.  

                            It remains my opinion that the combination of extreme anger, victim orientation and a hint of entitlement as indicated in repeated statements that ALL of another group has a problem is (in best case) unhelpful to progressive causes, and in worst case a shining example of the mindset the we like to think we're against.

                             It's important to at least consider other views and voices whether we like them or not in order to review or revise our own, and act in ways that make sense.

                            Except you: you can just scream them down.

                            Strengthen the Senate! ROCK THE HOUSE!

                            by mwm341 on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 06:56:13 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

              •  Oh, and one more thing..... (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Restinbones

                No comment about the men in my life who have let me down and how I set the bar too high for them?  

                You know, when you think about it... that comment of yours...that I set the bar too high..... is really quite something else.  Shouldn't a woman set the bar high for any man who she plans to spend her life with, or work for?  Or is she not worthy of that....?  

                Its also insulting to men - implying that they cannot reach a high level of humanity - so we must give the poor dears some slack...

  •  I'm a widowed 66 yr old rape survivor. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Silencio, SaraBeth

    I not only concur with every word you wrote before you were bullied into editing any of it out but with what remains and what you replied to those demanding even after you edited what you wrote that you take this diary down.

    STUFF'em.

    Maybe, they should get off their disapproving rumps and get out and FIX this planet.  How many of them have ever built a home for a homeless family or person, or helped  construct solar arrays or wind turbines to make frakking unnecessary, or ESCORTED WOMEN TO HEALTH CLINICS FOR WHATEVER TREATMENT THEY DESIRE OR NEED, BECAUSE ITS THEIR HUMAN RIGHT TO PRIVACY BETWEEN THEMSELVES AND PHYSICIANs?

    How many of those whinging have ever stood linked arm in arm with any OCCUPY people in spite fo police clubs and harrassment?  How many spent any money paying their legal fees or buying them tents or burner phones or ANY kind of help, eh?

    I have?  I'll bet you've done similar.

    Stuff'em, I say. Stuff 'em.

    And stuff their misogyny and the religion they approve of for promoting it.

  •  My response to update II. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SaraBeth, Restinbones, Silencio

    I first came into this diary after most of the initial posting had been edited out. That placed me at something of a disadvantage in commenting since I was getting the content by inference. Even then I had the sense that the attacks on SaraBeth were out of proportion in much the same way that I have repeatedly seen them be out of proportion attacks on other women who were sharing their feelings about sexual violence and the ever present threat of it. I am pleased to see that she has now posted a cogent statement of her views that I can react to.

    I think that I pretty much agree with everything she says in this update. Her telling of her own experiences are her story to tell and none of us are qualified to sit in judgement on it. Her views about broader power relations are valid and have been stated by a great many other people.

    We live in a world where straight white men with economic comfort still call the shots for everybody else. Sometimes it is from a position of naked power. At other times it is men who have privilege that they simply take for granted. That imbalance of power and privilege is what drives racism, sexism and homo/transphobia. Many people confuse privilege with personal psychologically motivated bigotry. When people attempt to discuss the realities of privilege a certain number of men react as though all men are being accused of personal bigotry. That is exactly what I see happening in the comments to this dairy.

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