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Dear Sir: I'm asking you, I'm asking Europe and the West to keep it's promise to the Ukrainian people. Although I've been a loyal Democrat, who fought hard in his own way for healthcare reform, I cannot help but see the same weakness from this Administration that plagued that fight, now endangering the freedom and security of my people.

You seem to have this attitude that everyone in this world has better angels in their nature, and that people will see reason, and act reasonably if you treat them with good manners.But history tells us that all too often, this is not the case. As Neville Chamberlain found from Hitler, negotiating with a nut waving a pistol can end up pretty badly. Please remember that Putin thinks he's a hammer, and to and to him everything looks like a nail.

The convoluted nature of American foreign policy eludes me. We give weapons to Pretty Boy tin horns like Maliki, who then uses them to oppress his people. We give weapons and money to states like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Jordan who then give their weapons and money to the Taliban, or HAMAS, who use them to kill Americans and Israelis, but we won't give weapons to a people, my people, who really want to accomplish something - a better life, and - contrary to the inflated egos, and the holier than thou pigheaded extremism in the Middle East, want to fight for something admittedly more obscure - their freedom!

And yet, despite the fact that Russia is brazenly sending over tanks, artillery, weapons and personnel, across Ukraine's border, you persist in assuming that sanctions are some economic nuclear weapon that will, once again - make Vladimir Putin see reason. And your "military assistance" consists of what? Non-lethal aid? Those weren't night vision goggles that brought down MH17, or those Ukrainian transport planes! Those were real live rockets, not party favors! And nobody can stop a tank with a MRE! Likewise there is news and documentation of mass graves in Sloviansk!

What you don't seem to understand is that Putin is not just waging a "hybrid" war, but also a psychological war in Ukraine to provoke us into some incident to be used as a pretext for "peacekeepers" in Eastern Ukraine. Once he has his hands on Ukraine's industrial region, he can control the rest, and bring us into his "co-prosperity sphere!" Eurasia!

Already tensions are rising. Violent incidents like the one in Odessa, involving the local militia and protesters at the musical concert by singer Ani Lorak, Right Sector and Svoboda could prove to be just the provocation needed to bring Russian troops across the border! Ukraine is made to look like it is in anarchy!

Giving Ukraine more substantial military aid and hardware, would not only improve Ukraine's military posture, but have a calming effect on the populace, and slow Putin up. It would do great damage to the terrorists, and force Putin to acknowledge that another chair has been added to the table. It would dampen the vitriol of the crowds in Moscow now shouting for war!

Above all we need a fair shake. Are we getting one if your attention is constantly turned towards Iraq or Gaza? It is true that the people of Gaza, Syria and Iraq are suffering terribly, and they have my sympathy. But in neither of these areas does there appear to be anyone willing to learn a thing in order to progress towards peace. The Shiites of Iraq learned nothing from Saddam's oppression. They choose to oppress the Sunnis, who will return to oppressing them when they take over. Hence a black hole for U.S. weapons and American taxes. Now Gaza: If one is not lobbing missiles, then the other one is. And horrifying as the body count in Gaza is, how can one sympathize with a terrorist government that knowingly initiates violence, with full anticipation of the resulting civilian deaths and suffering of it's own people? And why doesn't Netanyahu also understand that simply withdrawing troops from Gaza would effectively put the ball in a dumbfounded HAMAS's court? Again, a dead end for U.S. weapons and American taxes.

Ukrainians are not like that. They have a dream for a better future. They don't have the same kind of prejudice between nations and cultures as in the Middle East. What they do have is the horrifying specter of Putinism in of Russia, that threatens rights that Americans and Ukrainians care for deeply. They need American weapons! Not American "boots on the ground." They've enough willing hands for fighting. But they do need the tools and the security those weapons will bring. Start with the surplus from Afghanistan! Deduce from the Saudis an equivalent to the dollar amount they give to HAMAS!

Just don't forget them. And be more realistic in your approach to our problem - Europe's problem - your problem! MRE's cannot kill tanks though our freedom is at stake!

And now the situation appears to be more grim as the rebels are attempting a counteroffensive, and many of Ukraine's gains seem to be in peril. Russian troops at the border appear to be near 40,000! If you're looking for humanitarian disasters the one coming to Ukraine will dwarf Gaza, because Ukrainians will fight back. It will be another Afghanistan. Russian troops at the border appear to be near 40,000! If you're looking for humanitarian disasters the one coming to Ukraine will dwarf Gaza, because Ukrainians will fight back. It will be another Afghanistan.

It is now August, the time that Russia chose to attack Georgia over Abkhazia and South Ossetia. Remember: nice guys do finish last, and Chamberlain rolled out the red carpet for war. It took a Churchill to end it.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ajaradom, bear83, sunbro

    "The time has come to say fair's fair to pay the rent to pay our share!" - Midnight Oil

    by gwojtowy on Tue Aug 05, 2014 at 09:30:41 PM PDT

  •  there is no positive outcome (10+ / 0-)

    to more military aid. it might just provoke putin even more, and if he decides to invade, we'd have to cut our losses. we're not getting in deeper, militarily.

    obama is working with the eu, which is slowly getting more aggressive with its sanctions. ukraine is closing in on rebel stronghold donetsk, and russia seems to be in a troop buildup near the border. the coming days may be critical. will russia let donetsk fall?

    The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

    by Laurence Lewis on Tue Aug 05, 2014 at 09:40:31 PM PDT

    •  No American boots on the ground are necessary! (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bear83, kevinpdx

      There are enough Ukrainians willing to fight. All they need is weapons. And if those weapons can kill tanks, and protect airspace, it might be enough to give the Russian people - including Putin, pause.

      As we leave Afghanistan, there are many surplus weapons that would be put to use by Ukrainians trying to build a country that to have them circle the Taliban Drain!

      "The time has come to say fair's fair to pay the rent to pay our share!" - Midnight Oil

      by gwojtowy on Tue Aug 05, 2014 at 09:48:53 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  ukraine doesn't need our help (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sunbro, Pluto, thenekkidtruth, Kevskos, amyzex

        against the rebels. they can win that battle with the arms they have. but if russia invades, ukraine cannot fight them off. more arms won't make a difference.

        ukraine's best hope is to take donetsk, avoid excessive violence, grant russian ukrainians cultural freedom, and hope russia stays out.

        The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

        by Laurence Lewis on Tue Aug 05, 2014 at 10:03:41 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Do you honestly think that Putin will allow that? (0+ / 0-)

          "Avoid excessive violence?" With every tank he pushes across border, he's upping the violence quotient until he creates a false flag pretext for invasion!

          I'm asking you to look at the message arming Ukraine could send to Russia, the Russians, Putin and the world! With the specter of body bags and funerals, will Russian parents be receptive to a war? ANY war?

          "The time has come to say fair's fair to pay the rent to pay our share!" - Midnight Oil

          by gwojtowy on Tue Aug 05, 2014 at 10:29:09 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  arming ukraine sends no message (6+ / 0-)

            it just means russia fights harder, with more hardware. they know we're not getting involved. they know that no amount of arms can make ukraine a viable opposition army. it also raises the odds of russia invading, because it's direct meddling, militarily.

            The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

            by Laurence Lewis on Tue Aug 05, 2014 at 10:32:45 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  This is from EuromaidanPR so take with salt. (2+ / 0-)


            At the moment, Russian public opinion is for sending mercenaries and weapons, but not for sending Russian soldiers in significant numbers.  Dmitry Timchuk showed video of some "Ukrainian" guy yelling obscenities at Russians who were arranging weapons near the border.  Apparently some citizens of Rostov-on-Don did their bit to make the transfer of weapons to Ukraine more difficult as well.  

            "Politics should be the part-time profession of every citizen who would protect the rights and privileges of free people and who would preserve what is good and fruitful in our national heritage." -- Lucille Ball

            by Yamaneko2 on Wed Aug 06, 2014 at 12:37:58 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  P.S. Once you've been to the bottom... (0+ / 0-)

        The only way forward is up!

        "The time has come to say fair's fair to pay the rent to pay our share!" - Midnight Oil

        by gwojtowy on Tue Aug 05, 2014 at 10:05:02 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Non-lethal, yes. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sunbro, thenekkidtruth


        It's not that Ukraine's cause is unjust or unreasonable -- it's that Ukraine is really, really good at making weapons and its world-class arms manufacturers need to replace the Russian business that they lost.  Heavy unemployment of factory workers opens a fifth column for Russian penetration in Kharkiv and Dniepropetrovsk.

        Ukraine is less good at making non-lethal stuff.  EuromaidanPR is endlessly calling for Ukraine's friends to send Celox to Ukraine, which is used to keep wounds from bleeding.  GPS devices, night googles and even the infamous MRE would be of great use,  

        There's also the little problem that Ukraine's military has riddled with Russian moles who will pass on whatever plans fall into their hands.  

        As for the stuff we're leaving behind in Afghanistan, a map shows that it would have to depart Afghanistan by way of Russia.  Russia's blocking apples and sunflower seeds at the border;  they'll certainly block tanks.

        "Politics should be the part-time profession of every citizen who would protect the rights and privileges of free people and who would preserve what is good and fruitful in our national heritage." -- Lucille Ball

        by Yamaneko2 on Wed Aug 06, 2014 at 12:30:25 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Just about every time we've given weapons (11+ / 0-)

    to someone we've made the situation worse.

    I'd be happiest if we didn't give weapons to anyone for the next century.

    We're shocked by a naked nipple, but not by naked aggression.

    by Lepanto on Tue Aug 05, 2014 at 09:50:00 PM PDT

    •  40,000 troops on Ukraine's border! (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bear83

      If Ukraine is once again returned to Russian domination, after serfdom, Communism and it's entailing repression, how much worse do you think things can get!? Are we to have just one more brief freedom interlude like in 1918, and then it's back to more centuries of Russian imperialist exploitation!?

      Appeasing Putin didn't help, and oh, by the way, NOBODY WAS FORCING NATO ON US! WE WANTED NATO! - JUST LIKE THE POLES DID! MYTH - BUSTED!

      "The time has come to say fair's fair to pay the rent to pay our share!" - Midnight Oil

      by gwojtowy on Tue Aug 05, 2014 at 10:03:07 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Can this argument get any more hysterical? (3+ / 0-)

        and it sounds RACIAL.

        Pure nonsense on so many levels.  You've been brainwashed well.

        •  Sorry, that comment was for the diarist (0+ / 0-)

          Not you. :).

          "I find it incredible that Keith Alexander can sell secrets and is free to make a huge profit without being slammed with Espionage Act charges and Snowden is stateless" Jesselyn Radack.

          by snoopydawg on Wed Aug 06, 2014 at 12:53:08 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Quit listening to the MSM and do some research (7+ / 0-)

        The US is responsible for the situation in Ukraine. Not Russia

        Wikileaks Cables Confirm New Ukrainian President Has Been Working For US Gov’t Since 2006
        There’s not much point in staging a coup if you don’t influence who is placed in power in the aftermath. Of course in order for a puppet government to be effective, they can’t be perceived as such. You wouldn’t want the natives to get restless would you?
        The evidence that the U.S. was behind the toppling of the Ukrainian government early this year is so overwhelming at this point that the subject really isn’t up for debate, however initially it was unclear how the election of Petro Poroshenko fit in. The ecstatic response by Washington when he was declared the winner, and their unbending support in spite of his ongoing military assault against civilians in the east, made it clear that he was the chosen one, but the paper trail wasn’t immediately obvious.

        As it turns out, the evidence that Poroshenko is in the pocket of the U.S. State Department has been available all this time, you just had to know where to find it. In a classified diplomatic cable from 2006 released by Wikileaks.org, U.S. officials refer to Poroshenko as “Our Ukraine (OU) insider Petro Poroshenko”.

        A separate cable also released by Wikileaks makes it clear that the U.S. government was considered Poroshenko corrupt.

        “Poroshenko was tainted by credible corruption allegations, but wielded significant influence within OU; Poroshenko’s price had to be paid.”

        The U.S. government knew Poroshenko was dirty, but he was influential, and arguably their most dependable mole.

        Perhaps the most interesting revelation comes from a 2009 cable where Poroshenko told then Secretary of State Hillary Clinton he supported “the opening of a U.S. diplomatic presence in Crimea” and “He emphasized the importance of Crimea, and said that having U.S. representation there would be useful for Ukraine.” Poroshenko’s role as an informant for the U.S. government continued in cables in 2010 as well.

        Reading through the cables, I have to wonder if Poroshenko was actually breaking Ukrainian law by sharing the kind of strategic information that he did. Considering that this information was certainly used when planning the coup against Yanukovich, one could argue that he committed treason.

        http://www.popularresistance.org/....

        "I find it incredible that Keith Alexander can sell secrets and is free to make a huge profit without being slammed with Espionage Act charges and Snowden is stateless" Jesselyn Radack.

        by snoopydawg on Wed Aug 06, 2014 at 12:49:08 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  NATO commits the member nations to respond to (6+ / 0-)

        an attack on one as an attack on all. It would be singularly stupid to bring Ukraine into NATO and thus obligate NATO members to a war wit Russia.
           Actually, NATO should have been disbanded after the Cold War ended.

  •  There are people in this country (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sunbro, amyzex

    with an interest in seeing continued unrest in the Middle East, because they figure that any one of those battles could trigger the War of Armageddon and bring Jesus Christ back down here to settle matters. That's probably why more people are paying attention to Gaza over Ukraine.

    There's only one rule that I know of, babies -- goddammit, you've got to be kind. -- Kurt Vonnegut

    by Cali Scribe on Tue Aug 05, 2014 at 09:52:51 PM PDT

  •  Just because the media has forgotten the Ukraine (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bear83, CJB2012, fran1, doroma, sunbro

    doesn't mean Obama has.

    Dick Cheney 2/14/10: "I was a big supporter of waterboarding"

    by Bob Love on Tue Aug 05, 2014 at 09:55:15 PM PDT

    •  The US media (5+ / 0-)

      has forgotten the Ukraine, but in on European newssites there are lots of discussion going on. And more and more people are seeing the US as the warmongers, helped by their EU vasalls.

      There is a huge humanitarian crisis in Eastern Ukraine and the only ones so far helping are the Russians, because most of the refugees are fleeing to Russia. And it also looks like more and more of the Ukrainian Arme are deserting to Russia. I hope the US is not going to block again the help to Eastern Ukraine - there was a special session last night.

      In a BBC interview one of the soldiert said - we were told to fight terrorist and we found we are fighting Ukrainian brothers.

      Read the European view at the European Tribune

      by fran1 on Tue Aug 05, 2014 at 11:24:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The Author has drunk the Kool Aid. (9+ / 0-)

    And Ukraine is killing people with their weapons.

    Not sure why you want more death and destruction.

    •  Not very original! (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sunbro, JackND

      Let's see: It's all a Right-Wing junta, put in place by the West. Yanukovich, although a thug and a dictator, was - "legitimately" elected to that gangster government by graft. And the real aggressors were the EU and NATO, who had no business being pushy, even though everyone wanted them to come! Never mind the fact that the Poles, Litts Lats, Moldovans, Estonians and Ukrainians were begging to join the EU and NATO. Russia has the right to good ol' fashioned Imperial "Sphere of Influence," like the Cold War days!

      And who is the author of this idea? Why Stephen F. Cohen of course! Or was it Israel Shamir, no - William Blum, no - Paul Craig Roberts they're all so interchangeable! It was Kyselev, no - Dugin! Maybe it was Alex Jones, or maybe some web-Brigader, who knows!

      "The time has come to say fair's fair to pay the rent to pay our share!" - Midnight Oil

      by gwojtowy on Tue Aug 05, 2014 at 11:08:57 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Wrong again (5+ / 0-)

        See my comment above. I mistakenly responded to the wrong person.

        Here it is.

        Not Russia

        Wikileaks Cables Confirm New Ukrainian President Has Been Working For US Gov’t Since 2006
        There’s not much point in staging a coup if you don’t influence who is placed in power in the aftermath. Of course in order for a puppet government to be effective, they can’t be perceived as such. You wouldn’t want the natives to get restless would you?
        The evidence that the U.S. was behind the toppling of the Ukrainian government early this year is so overwhelming at this point that the subject really isn’t up for debate, however initially it was unclear how the election of Petro Poroshenko fit in. The ecstatic response by Washington when he was declared the winner, and their unbending support in spite of his ongoing military assault against civilians in the east, made it clear that he was the chosen one, but the paper trail wasn’t immediately obvious.

        As it turns out, the evidence that Poroshenko is in the pocket of the U.S. State Department has been available all this time, you just had to know where to find it. In a classified diplomatic cable from 2006 released by Wikileaks.org, U.S. officials refer to Poroshenko as “Our Ukraine (OU) insider Petro Poroshenko”.

        A separate cable also released by Wikileaks makes it clear that the U.S. government was considered Poroshenko corrupt.

        “Poroshenko was tainted by credible corruption allegations, but wielded significant influence within OU; Poroshenko’s price had to be paid.”

        The U.S. government knew Poroshenko was dirty, but he was influential, and arguably their most dependable mole.

        Perhaps the most interesting revelation comes from a 2009 cable where Poroshenko told then Secretary of State Hillary Clinton he supported “the opening of a U.S. diplomatic presence in Crimea” and “He emphasized the importance of Crimea, and said that having U.S. representation there would be useful for Ukraine.” Poroshenko’s role as an informant for the U.S. government continued in cables in 2010 as well.

        Reading through the cables, I have to wonder if Poroshenko was actually breaking Ukrainian law by sharing the kind of strategic information that he did. Considering that this information was certainly used when planning the coup against Yanukovich, one could argue that he committed treason.

        http://www.popularresistance.org/....

        "I find it incredible that Keith Alexander can sell secrets and is free to make a huge profit without being slammed with Espionage Act charges and Snowden is stateless" Jesselyn Radack.

        by snoopydawg on Wed Aug 06, 2014 at 12:55:01 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  The Kiev putsch has US State Department (6+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        TJ, kdnla, protectspice, Lepanto, snoopydawg, fran1

        paw prints all over it.

        UKRAINE: OUR UKRAINE INSIDER POROSHENKO ON RADA MAJORITY COALITION TALKS, TYMOSHENKO

        B. KIEV 1663 Classified By: Ambassador for reasons 1.4 (b) and (d).
        Date: 2006 April 28, 14:35 (Friday)
        TAGS:
        PGOV - Political Affairs--Government; Internal Governmental Affairs | PHUM - Political Affairs--Human Rights | PINR - Political Affairs--Intelligence | SOCI - Social Affairs--Social Conditions | UP - Ukraine

        Summary -------

        1. (C) During an April 28 meeting with Ambassador, Our Ukraine (OU) insider Petro Poroshenko emphatically denied he was using his influence with the Prosecutor General to put pressure on Tymoshenko lieutenant Oleksandr Turchynov (refs A and B). Coalition talks with the Tymoshenko Bloc (BYuT) were continuing, but there was no progress to report; President Yushchenko still seemed unwilling to accept Tymoshenko as prime minister and was "listening" to influential advocates of cooperation with the Party of Regions. Poroshenko claimed that he was personally opposed to an "Orange-Blue" pairing. Poroshenko related that he had spoken at length with Tymoshenko on April 27; she had sought, and then spurned, his assistance in forming a BYuT-OU coalition in the Kiev city council. Poroshenko confided that he had spoken with Tymoshenko during the Orthodox Easter weekend (April 22-23); she had called him to ask "what he wanted" in return for his support for her serving again as PM. Poroshenko said he had replied that he wanted her to be more flexible and less high-handed in the coalition talks. Poroshenko groused that Tymoshenko could not be trusted, stressing that she was not candid and not "principled." It was very possible, Poroshenko warned, that there could be a crisis scenario in which Tymoshenko and Yushchenko simply could not get a coalition deal done. End summary.

        •  You are aware of course (0+ / 0-)

          that Our Ukraine was a political party and does not necessarily refer to Ukrainians controlled by the Americans?  Thanks for reccing my comment below, by the way.

          The Stars and Bars and the red swastika banner are both offerings to the same barbaric god.

          by amyzex on Wed Aug 06, 2014 at 09:29:09 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Yes. But don't forget that Our Ukraine was in the (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            snoopydawg, fran1

            forefront of the Orange Revolution. In fact the revolution got it's name from the color of the OU political campaign. Poroshenko was a very close personal friend of US supported central banker Yushchenko and used his wealth and media outlets to support the Orange Revolution. He was also a major organizer of the Maidan protests using his popular TV station.

            The cable shows that the US had close ties with political insider Poroshenko during the Orange Revolution.

            Poroshenko has long been anti Russian. Like most of the other Ukrainian oligarchs, he made his money after the collapse of the Soviet Union when state owned enterprises were pillaged.

            Now Poroshenko is President.

  •  I understand how you feel given your connections (7+ / 0-)

    to Ukraine, but you cannot be so naive as to not understand the enormous and dangerous implications of so directly 'fighting' Russia. And that is what the provision of weaponry would be construed as.

    I've got three tools in my arsenal: my voice, my wallet and my vote.

    by ExpatGirl on Wed Aug 06, 2014 at 12:55:28 AM PDT

  •  Putin the (Not So) Great (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    thenekkidtruth, amyzex

    "Laughing in the face of the rest of the world's rules can only last so long."

    also....

    Support for Putin in Russia dwindling, poll says.

    Have faith. Wait the crisis out. The U.S. is as involved as it ought to be at this point. Ukraine will eventually prevail against Putin and Russia even without U.S. weaponry.

    -4.75, -5.33 Cheney 10/05/04: "I have not suggested there is a connection between Iraq and 9/11."

    by sunbro on Wed Aug 06, 2014 at 01:14:15 AM PDT

    •  In Ukraine, Putin is on the wrong side of history. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      thenekkidtruth

      Putin is a near-sighted nationalist. The world will lose patience with him and chew him up and spit him out in time.

      -4.75, -5.33 Cheney 10/05/04: "I have not suggested there is a connection between Iraq and 9/11."

      by sunbro on Wed Aug 06, 2014 at 01:16:34 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  A nationalist! That's despicable. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        TJ, dallasdunlap, protectspice

        How dare he be a nationalist? This is supposed to be the era of the trans-national corporatist, didn't he get the memo?

        •  Putin sucks. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          amyzex

          Mikhail Gorbachev and Boris Yeltsin are the types of leaders that Russia and the world need. Putin will fade in time....he is just full of himself and likely, he has a very small penis.

          -4.75, -5.33 Cheney 10/05/04: "I have not suggested there is a connection between Iraq and 9/11."

          by sunbro on Wed Aug 06, 2014 at 08:22:12 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Yeltsin bombed the shit out of Chechnya - twice (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            native, snoopydawg, fran1

            All during the time the drunk was buddies with Clinton.

            The economy of Russia was headed downhill due to Western implemented "shock therapy" until Putin took over in 1999/2000. Putin also gave direct rule to Chechnya and started to unwind the hostilities there within months of his inauguration. Putin has had popularity ratings consistently higher than 65% since.

            Putin will fade in time....he is just full of himself and likely, he has a very small penis.
            How old are you?
            •  Vladimir Putin: (0+ / 0-)

              The Most Interesting Man In The World

              -4.75, -5.33 Cheney 10/05/04: "I have not suggested there is a connection between Iraq and 9/11."

              by sunbro on Wed Aug 06, 2014 at 08:55:05 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Don't have anything factual to offer in response? (6+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                native, TJ, Lepanto, snoopydawg, fran1, gratis4
                Demonization thru Propaganda: West’s Reckless Rush Towards War With Russia

                For reasons that have no rational explanations at this time, the US and Europe have embarked on a concerted program to demonize Putin, ostracize Russia, and bring the world as close to a major conflict as it’s been since the Cold War, a time hardly memorable to many in the current crop of our elected officials.
                ...
                In researching this piece, I came across this 1998 interview with George Kennan that I found both illuminating and troubling:

                    His voice is a bit frail now, but the mind, even at age 94, is as sharp as ever. So when I reached George Kennan by phone to get his reaction to the Senate’s ratification of NATO expansion it was no surprise to find that the man who was the architect of America’s successful containment of the Soviet Union and one of the great American statesmen of the 20th century was ready with an answer.

                    ”I think it is the beginning of a new cold war,” said Mr. Kennan from his Princeton home.

                    ”I think the Russians will gradually react quite adversely and it will affect their policies. I think it is a tragic mistake. There was no reason for this whatsoever. No one was threatening anybody else. This expansion would make the Founding Fathers of this country turn over in their graves. We have signed up to protect a whole series of countries, even though we have neither the resources nor the intention to do so in any serious way. [NATO expansion] was simply a light-hearted action by a Senate that has no real interest in foreign affairs.”

                    ”What bothers me is how superficial and ill informed the whole Senate debate was,” added Mr. Kennan, who was present at the creation of NATO and whose anonymous 1947 article in the journal Foreign Affairs, signed ”X,” defined America’s cold-war containment policy for 40 years.

                    ‘‘I was particularly bothered by the references to Russia as a country dying to attack Western Europe. Don’t people understand? Our differences in the cold war were with the Soviet Communist regime. And now we are turning our backs on the very people who mounted the greatest bloodless revolution in history to remove that Soviet regime.

                    ”And Russia’s democracy is as far advanced, if not farther, as any of these countries we’ve just signed up to defend from Russia,’‘ said Mr. Kennan, who joined the State Department in 1926 and was U.S. Ambassador to Moscow in 1952.

                    ”It shows so little understanding of Russian history and Soviet history. Of course there is going to be a bad reaction from Russia, and then [the NATO expanders] will say that we always told you that is how the Russians are — but this is just wrong.”

                •  Why are you supporting (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  amyzex, karma5230

                  a totalitarian dictator?

                  He imprisons political dissidents, he silences free speech, he annexes neighboring territory, and he is not one to compromise on the world stage.

                  What makes you think that he is so beneficial to the world? I can't think of even one nice thing to say about Vladimir Putin. What the fuck, man. Why can't you see him as the warmonger and threat to humanity that he is?

                  -4.75, -5.33 Cheney 10/05/04: "I have not suggested there is a connection between Iraq and 9/11."

                  by sunbro on Wed Aug 06, 2014 at 09:17:21 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I see you as the warmonger here. Your arguments (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    native, Lepanto, snoopydawg

                    and reasoning in this diary are completely irrational.

                    Recognizing Propaganda Techniquesand Errors of Faulty Logic

                    Types:

                    Name calling: This techniques consists of attaching a negative label to a person or a thing. People engage in this type of behavior when they are trying to avoid supporting their own opinion with facts. Rather than explain what they believe in, they prefer to try to tear their opponent down.

                    Either/or fallacy: This technique is also called "black-and-white thinking" because only two choices are given. You are either for something or against it; there is no middle ground or shades of gray. It is used to polarize issues, and negates all attempts to find a common ground.

                    Faulty Cause and Effect: This technique suggests that because B follows A, A must cause B. Remember, just because two events or two sets of data are related does not necessarily mean that one caused the other to happen. It is important to evaluate data carefully before jumping to a wrong conclusion.

                    •  "negates all attempts to find a common ground." (0+ / 0-)

                      I see Putin doing a lot of this on the world stage recently.

                      Putin is not about common ground. He's in your face; and he refuses to compromise and I am sick of his saying that he doesn't do anything militarily, when in fact, he always DOES.

                      What a fucking liar Putin is. I can't believe that you do not suspect that every word out of his mouth is a lie. He hasn't told the truth YET!

                      -4.75, -5.33 Cheney 10/05/04: "I have not suggested there is a connection between Iraq and 9/11."

                      by sunbro on Wed Aug 06, 2014 at 10:36:26 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  Here's a sample of recent Putin lies. (0+ / 0-)

                      Here

                      Don't you disrespect anyone who lies constantly? Putin surely qualifies as one of the biggest and most dangerous liars in the world today.

                      -4.75, -5.33 Cheney 10/05/04: "I have not suggested there is a connection between Iraq and 9/11."

                      by sunbro on Wed Aug 06, 2014 at 10:41:07 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  Funny but... (0+ / 0-)

                      Can't the same be said for Putin's Web-Trollers?

                      "The time has come to say fair's fair to pay the rent to pay our share!" - Midnight Oil

                      by gwojtowy on Wed Aug 06, 2014 at 11:09:59 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                •  Ridiculous Great Man Great Power Theory (0+ / 0-)

                  Amazing that Kennan and his ilk forget that in democracies, which is what Slavs want, the Person In The Street also has a valid opinion! Poland WANTS TO BE IN NATO! AS DO THE BALTIC STATES AND UKRAINE!

                  "The time has come to say fair's fair to pay the rent to pay our share!" - Midnight Oil

                  by gwojtowy on Wed Aug 06, 2014 at 11:07:57 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

        •  Understand what Putin fears most. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          amyzex

          -4.75, -5.33 Cheney 10/05/04: "I have not suggested there is a connection between Iraq and 9/11."

          by sunbro on Wed Aug 06, 2014 at 08:26:27 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Passionate hatred of Putin is not (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Claudius Bombarnac, Lepanto, fran1

            equal to rational argument against his policies... but evidently it's enough for you.

            •  You believe that Putin (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              amyzex, gwojtowy

              does not fear democracy? It is clear from everything he has done that he is a totalitarian. He imprisons all dissent. He kills rivals. He persecutes the gays. How can anyone support this motherfucker Putin?

              -4.75, -5.33 Cheney 10/05/04: "I have not suggested there is a connection between Iraq and 9/11."

              by sunbro on Wed Aug 06, 2014 at 09:22:03 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Believe it or not, there is more (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Claudius Bombarnac

                than one point of view (yours) from which to view world affairs. Recognizing this is called maturity, which often takes time and experience to attain. George Kennan had it, but you don't.

                What you have is a self-righteous opinion, which you are eager to express repeatedly, but which is half-baked, ill-informed, and dangerous.

                •  Your attitude is absolutely wrong. (0+ / 0-)

                  "which is half-baked, ill-informed, and dangerous."

                  Sounds like you have an opinion to me.

                  I don't go around trying to talk condescending to you.

                  It is really irritating when people like yourself go around thinking they are so much smarter and well-informed than people like me. What a crock.

                  I will take you on in any college course and I will beat you. I read a lot more than you give me credit for, and I am 1000% more intelligent than you seem to think I am.

                  Shame on you for trying to put me down. I know for a fact that I am at least as smart and as informed as you are. I don't care what your political views are. It doesn't give you the right to talk down to me.

                  -4.75, -5.33 Cheney 10/05/04: "I have not suggested there is a connection between Iraq and 9/11."

                  by sunbro on Wed Aug 06, 2014 at 06:05:50 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  I don't care if your user ID is 5838. (0+ / 0-)

                  I have been here a long time too. And I'll bet that I have read more than you in my lifetime, and my reasoning ability and critical thinking skills are at least as good as yours.

                  Don't you dare talk down to me. It's rude, and it is not even correct.

                  -4.75, -5.33 Cheney 10/05/04: "I have not suggested there is a connection between Iraq and 9/11."

                  by sunbro on Wed Aug 06, 2014 at 06:10:15 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  You think you have more maturity (0+ / 0-)

                  than MICHAEL A. McFAUL?

                  I'd love to hear you try to explain that to his face.

                  Just because you have a different opinion than I do does not make you more mature, nor does it make your reasoning better.

                  It makes sense to you that anyone who agrees with you is mature. That is human nature.

                  -4.75, -5.33 Cheney 10/05/04: "I have not suggested there is a connection between Iraq and 9/11."

                  by sunbro on Wed Aug 06, 2014 at 06:27:00 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

          •  That's why he's trying to kill it! (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            sunbro

            "The time has come to say fair's fair to pay the rent to pay our share!" - Midnight Oil

            by gwojtowy on Wed Aug 06, 2014 at 12:14:53 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Near-sighted nationalists are called patriots here (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        protectspice, Lepanto, snoopydawg, fran1
        The world will lose patience with him and chew him up and spit him out in time.
        Who is this "world" you speak of? The BRICS (as well as dozens of other non-aligned countries) have supported Russia and Putin. The BRICS have 40% of the world's population as well as considerable economic clout. World wide, more people support Putin than support Obama.

        If anything, the world is losing patience with US interventions and warmongering. American bombs and missiles have killed more innocent civilians than any other nation in the world since WWII. All in the name of unfettered capitalism.

        Putin's big crime was re-nationalizing oil, banks and the arms industry after US backed Yeltsin pillaged the country by giving away state industry for pennies on the dollar.

  •  Know what? (6+ / 0-)

    I hate what's going on in Ukraine but I'm not ready to go to war with Russia over it, which seems to be what you're advocating. And you completely lost me when you compared the situation to Chamberlain's famous "peace in our time" speech. NOT interested in fighting everybody's civil war for them!

    "Given the choice between a Republican and someone who acts like a Republican, people will vote for a real Republican every time." Harry Truman

    by MargaretPOA on Wed Aug 06, 2014 at 03:21:22 AM PDT

    •  I'm not asking YOU to go to war! (0+ / 0-)

      We just need the WEAPONS! Haven't we bled enough getting by just on the West's empty promises!? That's not American, German, French or even DUTCH blood that's being spilt there, but someone's brother, father, sister or friend from all over Ukraine that's flowing. People CROWDFUND just to keep the army equipped! That means peoples are selling their properties to see that their kids are getting Kevlar vests! I'm sorry if you feel inconvenienced, but we are like the abused wife who can't get help from her lethally abusive husband!

      "The time has come to say fair's fair to pay the rent to pay our share!" - Midnight Oil

      by gwojtowy on Wed Aug 06, 2014 at 12:29:36 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Ukraine is winning, everything's fine. (0+ / 0-)

    Why do more than we have to?

    It's not the side effects of the cocaine/I'm thinking that it must be love

    by Rich in PA on Wed Aug 06, 2014 at 03:58:44 AM PDT

  •  Sending advanced weapons systems to (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    native, amyzex

    wacko militias is a very stupid idea, as Putin learned from the downing of the Malaysian airliner.

    And for the same reason the US shouldn't be sending weapons to the Ukrainian National Guard, which is swollen with Svoboda and Pravy Sektor militiamen.

    Further escalating the conflict in Ukraine would be madness.

    •  They've already got all the weapons they need. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      native, amyzex, protectspice, fran1

      They're trying to take Donbass with artillery shelling and bombing.  What are we going to send them, tactical nukes?

      They've got a gigantic numerical superiority and weapons advantage over the separatists.  If they can't win with that, tough shit.  Although the fact that they're conscripting 60 year olds would tend to argue against their impending victory.

    •  As opposed to sending them to whom!? (0+ / 0-)

      Supposed "Allies" in the Middle East who barter for their security by giving weapons to ISIS, Hizbollah, HAMAS, and the Taliban!? They kill Americans!

      "The time has come to say fair's fair to pay the rent to pay our share!" - Midnight Oil

      by gwojtowy on Wed Aug 06, 2014 at 11:20:18 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'm opposed to sending such weapons to (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        fran1, Claudius Bombarnac

        the Syrian rebels, for the same reason.

        And I find it deeply disturbing that the US is discussing sending more military aid to the Ukrainian National Guard rather than the regular Ukrainian Army. Apparently the regular Ukrainian Army has too many qualms about killing fellow Ukrainian citizens in the east?

    •  WACKO MILITIA'S !!!!!???? (0+ / 0-)

      Those are the National Defense forces of Ukraine! Much like the Continental Army at the beginning before it got reorganized!

      "The time has come to say fair's fair to pay the rent to pay our share!" - Midnight Oil

      by gwojtowy on Thu Aug 07, 2014 at 04:48:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Why is everything viewed as zero sum? (0+ / 0-)

    Whether it's people accusing others of using issue X or issue Y as a "distraction" to something else, or this complaint about too much attention being paid to Gaza rather than Ukraine, I always find this argument tiresome (and I generally come down on Israel's side in I/P--at least by dKos standards). Focus on the horror in Gaza and Ukraine. Paying attention to the latter does not require ignoring the former.

    Unapologetic Obama supporter.

    by Red Sox on Wed Aug 06, 2014 at 06:43:06 AM PDT

  •  There's already a Senate Bill (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    protectspice, snoopydawg, fran1, gratis4
    The Russia Aggression Act Senate Bill Preps for War with Russia
    August 04, 2014

    If there was an anti-war movement in the US, the  Russian Aggression Prevention Act of 2014  (S.2277) which will cost American taxpayers $117 billion, might be at the top of the list for defeat as a totally provocative, irrational piece of legislation that can only be viewed as paving the road for a preemptive first strike on Russia.

    But as the Obama foreign policy has crossed the threshold of madness in its prevarications of geopolitical crises into costly wars and escalations of US global domination; amazingly alas, there is no anti war movement.   The most militarized, most blatantly pro-war country on the planet, perhaps in the history of the world, has not one prominent voice for peace – except the American people who, in every poll, are consistently opposed to more war.

    In what is destined to be a lose-lose for world peace, 23 Senate Republicans have co-sponsored Sen. Bob Corker’s legislation that seeks to prevent “further Russian aggression toward Ukraine and other sovereign states in Europe and Eurasia.”  If there is any reader who believes that Russia has been the aggressor in Ukraine or elsewhere, this graphic video of civilian atrocities committed by Ukraine’s neo nazi National Guard ought to be enough to shake even the most apathetic population out of their indifference.
    ...

  •  How do you know where his attention is? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Lepanto

    All you know is where the media's attention is.

    “Texas is a so-called red state, but you’ve got 10 million Democrats here in Texas. And …, there are a whole lot of people here in Texas who need us, and who need us to fight for them.” President Obama

    by Catte Nappe on Wed Aug 06, 2014 at 07:46:48 AM PDT

  •  The diarist is stunningly wrong about Gaza. (5+ / 0-)

    Nobody is defending Hamas per se. The horrific Israeli atrocities should concern us because first they are crimes against humanity and second these war crimes are being committed with American weapons and American taxpayer support.
       As for Ukraine: Not our fight. Ukraine has been winning against the separatists. Russia recently allowed Ukrainian soldiers to transit its territory to escape an encirclement. The US has many good reasons to be on good terms with Russia.
       There are no good reasons to arm up Ukraine for a major war in which thousands would die.
       Let diplomacy and European leadership sort this out.

    •  How am wrong about HAMAS!? (0+ / 0-)

      The same scenario has been repeated by HAMAS in Gaza for 25 years, with the same result. And before that in the '80's by Hizbollah and the PLO from South Lebanon! And each and every time, Israel did the same thing: invade! Who learned anything from there!? I forgot the name of Israel's Prime Minister who was assassinated trying to bring peace, but it wasn't and Arab who killed him but an Israeli Right-Winger! Shimon Peres doesn't have the fight, and Ehud Barak was eviscerated! Who's left? Abbas!? Bebe!? Right!

      "The time has come to say fair's fair to pay the rent to pay our share!" - Midnight Oil

      by gwojtowy on Wed Aug 06, 2014 at 11:47:55 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Military aid is an issue that should be closely (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Claudius Bombarnac, Lepanto, gratis4

    examined, but your cry of "My people are different/better than all the ones who have squandered US aid" almost made me stop reading the diary.

    The Stars and Bars and the red swastika banner are both offerings to the same barbaric god.

    by amyzex on Wed Aug 06, 2014 at 08:16:52 AM PDT

    •  They are not better, (0+ / 0-)

      But they didn't start the fight either! THEY WERE INVADED! THEY WERE VIOLATED BY PUTIN'S INCURSION INTO CRIMEA! THEY ARE VIOLATED EVERY DAY BY RUSSIAN TANKS FREELY CROSSING THE BORDER WITHOUT PERMISSION! They are not "better," BUT THEY SHOULD NOT BE IGNORED!!!

      "The time has come to say fair's fair to pay the rent to pay our share!" - Midnight Oil

      by gwojtowy on Wed Aug 06, 2014 at 12:01:47 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Not all Ukrainians support your POV (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TJ, Lepanto, snoopydawg, fran1
    UN: Nearly a million Ukrainians have fled fighting in east

    Most of the displaced are in Russia – and putting strains on facilities and infrastructure there, say the UN refugee agency and local Russian officials.

    Almost 1 million people have been displaced by escalating warfare in the two east Ukrainian regions of Donetsk and Luhansk, and hundreds of thousands of those have fled across the border to neighboring Russia, the United Nations said Tuesday.
    ...
    The head of Russia's Federal Migration Service, Konstantin Romodanovsky, said Tuesday that there are 2 million Ukrainians currently living in Russia, about 600,000 of whom are from Donetsk and Luhansk. He added that Russian authorities expect about 90 percent of them to return to their homes once the fighting ends.

    Many refugees find temporary accommodation with relatives or other Russian families, and there is now a major effort in Rostov region to ensure that thousands of Ukrainian children will be enrolled in Russian kindergartens and schools by the beginning of September, Titov says.

    "We've managed to get volunteers into the refugee camps to cook, and help out. In most we have water and hot showers. About 100 women have given birth [in the camps] already," he says. "But they keep coming, and we're making big efforts to send them on to other regions too."

    •  Of course they fled! (0+ / 0-)

      As they did in Uganda, Somalia, Cambodia etc.! What did you expect!? Also the demographics in that region which still favors Ukrainians has a large Russophile element! But don't make the mistake of thinking that RussoPHONE is RussoPHILE! Most people there still think of themselves as Ukrainian! They will return to Ukraine, unless they encountered "difficulties" from the RF!

      "The time has come to say fair's fair to pay the rent to pay our share!" - Midnight Oil

      by gwojtowy on Wed Aug 06, 2014 at 11:32:49 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Eastern Ukraine has very long historical ties with (0+ / 0-)

        Russia which are much closer than their ties with Western Ukraine.

        Uganda, Somalia, and Cambodia refugees are a very poor comparator. I didn't see many of them fleeing TOWARDS their oppressor. Why haven't the Ukrainian refugees moved behind the Kiev lines for protection instead of heading for Russia?

        They will return to Ukraine, unless they encountered "difficulties" from the RF!
        Of course they will. They are currently running from indiscriminate bombing and shelling from the Kiev junta.

        Even Kiev's military is going to Russia.

        Over 400 Ukrainian troops cross into Russia for refuge
        ...
        The Ukrainian troops, while far superior to the militia in terms of heavy weapons, suffer from poor logistics. Many soldiers complain about lacking even basic supplies like food and water on the frontline. The situation is aggravated by cases of apparent negligence from the command, with units being supplied with faulty equipment, coming under friendly fire and simply left behind while retreating from militia counter-attacks.

        This causes serious morale problems in the army, with more critical voices saying the Ukraine de facto has no infantry troops and has no other way to fight but by leveling militia-held cities to the ground with artillery and air strikes.

        There is a growing resistance to the military campaign among Ukrainian population, with several cases of mass protests against the latest mobilization drive, as mothers and wives of conscripts took to the streets to demand that their loved once not be drafted into the army.

        •  And what historical ties are those!? (0+ / 0-)

          The absorption of the Cossack State into the Russian Empire!? Four hundred years of serfdom for our peasants!? The attempt to stamp out our culture by Russification!? The terror repressions of Yezhov, Yagoda, Beria and the Holodomor for forced collectivization under Stalin!? The attempt to wipe out our culture by erasing our language and lawn mowing our professional and intellectual classes for the Soviet State!? Oh yes, those are historical ties allright! Ties yes, but now they are like those of a stalker trying to hold on to an obsession, or - destroy it!

          WE WANT TO BE FREE! DOESN'T THAT MATTER!? DOES OUR COUNTRY HAVE TO BE SOUTH OF THE EQUATOR FOR LIBERALS AND PROGRESSIVES TO UNDERSTAND THIS!?

          "The time has come to say fair's fair to pay the rent to pay our share!" - Midnight Oil

          by gwojtowy on Wed Aug 06, 2014 at 07:36:28 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Novorossiya... Crimea.... (0+ / 0-)

            The entire Donbass industrial region has been built up by Russia over the centuries.

            The problem with Ukraine is how far back do you want to take it. Ukraine does not have a very long history as a unified nation.

            WE WANT TO BE FREE! DOESN'T THAT MATTER!? DOES OUR COUNTRY HAVE TO BE SOUTH OF THE EQUATOR FOR LIBERALS AND PROGRESSIVES TO UNDERSTAND THIS!?
            Do you really think that Poroshenko is going about it in the proper manner? As a progressive liberal, I do not support his methods, nor those of the US in fomenting/supporting the putsch in Kiev. Democracy should have been allowed to run it's course. Many voices warned that the current situation in Ukraine would be the outcome.

            What additional arms should the US supply to the Kiev military? They already have more than they can handle. The real problem is the lack of men willing to fight their brothers in the east. In fact, the Kiev junta has had to construct an entirely new national guard made up from western Ukrainians due to the unreliability of the army. Unfortunately this will contain many of the rabidly anti-Russian right wing self-defense militia from the Maidan protests. This does not bode well for the country.

            Ukraine is ONLY being used by the US as a wedge to garner the real prize - the breakup of Russia into a number of western compliant states.

            The US will be pushing the envelope with the placement of boots on the ground when it enters Ukraine to train and equip four companies and one tactical headquarters of the Ukrainian national guard next year.

            What do you advocate. A full on US military assault?

            •  Oh but we do have a long history! (0+ / 0-)

              We were Kievan Rus, not Russia! It's as if some radicalized Right Wing America controlled Britain, the country that gave birth to America! And when we were separated from Muscovy by Mongols and ruled by Lithuanians and Poles, we had Western influences. But we were separated from them by Polish oppression. The Cossacks of the Dnieper came from Ukrainians who ran from that oppression! Our Cossacks! Not the Don Cossacks, or the ones from the Terek, but our own Dnieper Cossacks! And when Hetman Khmelnytsky led the successfull revolt against Poland, it spread across Ukraine like a brushfire! And if there was no long history of Ukraine, then why did Kotliarevsky, Shevchenko, Franko and even Gogol write some of their most famous works in Ukrainian? And why the attempts to stamp out our culture?

              "The time has come to say fair's fair to pay the rent to pay our share!" - Midnight Oil

              by gwojtowy on Thu Aug 07, 2014 at 09:19:43 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  As for your reliance on RT, here are a few other.. (0+ / 0-)

          Russian sources:

          Россия — страна гопников. В том числе и образованных

          Funny, that I can actually read this gobbledygook, and yet you are lecturing me on "the real truth," that RT feeds you!

          То, что творится сейчас в России — это какая-то массовая шизофрения. Специально опросов я не проводил, но ощущение такое, что многие умные, тонкие, душевные люди в одночасье посходили с ума… В распятых киселевым младенцев верят не все, но зато в полный рост звучит: «новороссия», «крымнаш»… Чем ниже образовательный уровень, тем с большим восторгом несут чушь. Но и масса образованных людей твердит об оранжевом терроре и укрофашизме. При этом на аргументированный разговор не идут.
          Познер: мне жаль расставаться с Россией, но я человек

          And the same in English:

          I'm sorry to part with Russia, but I - a man -

          "The time has come to say fair's fair to pay the rent to pay our share!" - Midnight Oil

          by gwojtowy on Thu Aug 07, 2014 at 09:35:58 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  ... And NO, Russians are NOT MONKEYS! (0+ / 0-)

            However, because he was the chief media spokesman in America for the old USSR, which many are accusing Putin of trying to revive, his reason for leaving Russia Pozner's opinion is very crucial, though he might have made a less insulting choice of names for Russian citizens.

            My apologies to all Russians!

            "The time has come to say fair's fair to pay the rent to pay our share!" - Midnight Oil

            by gwojtowy on Thu Aug 07, 2014 at 09:52:17 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

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