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That is what I have been hearing quite a bit of today in the region after USAF aircraft from the carrier USS George HW Bush bombed two locations in northern Iraq because the ISIS was approaching areas in Erbil where US personnel are located.

The US bombing of Iraq again, even if it is bombing ISIS(IS), is a stupid idea.

Send in humanitarian aid, and a lot of it, and free up the resources the Iraqi government and the KRG are devoting to caring for the 1,000,000 refugees and that will make a huge difference in northern Iraq.

But that's not sexy enough for the US because it doesn't go BOOM.

And also because, more importantly, it would actually help people, something that the US is definitely not interested in doing.

It's all about things that go BOOM.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (11+ / 0-)

    The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
    Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

    by InAntalya on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 08:02:47 AM PDT

  •  Inantalya (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    frostbite

    You visited this link ,  i linked to a previus reply ,you will find it interesting, i saw Kerry taking in a photograph with this craze sociopath Lieberman,the foriegn minister of Israel

  •  I have no problem with the bombing (30+ / 0-)

    in order to prevent mass murder by ISIS.  I think the President is doing the right thing, and it is a measured response.  

    Join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news and views written from a black pov—everyone is welcome.

    by TomP on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 08:12:55 AM PDT

    •  To protect US interests only it seems. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TJ, frostbite

      And you really don't care how this looks in the region, to the people there, do you.

      The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
      Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

      by InAntalya on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 08:15:20 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  If it stops 40,000 people from dying of thirst (14+ / 0-)

        I think it will look pretty good.

        The Stars and Bars and the red swastika banner are both offerings to the same barbaric god.

        by amyzex on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 08:39:09 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  what now. (7+ / 0-)

        Yes indeed. the US Prez said planes would bomb to protect US interests (like, personnel). And not otherwise.

        What do you criticize in this. That they wouldnt bomb to protect other than US personnel, or that they bomb at all, even if US personnel is at risk?

        which would you prefer?

        •  If US personnel are at risk remove them. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          marsanges, TJ, frostbite

          Didn't the US withdraw many personnel from Baghdad last month for the same reason?

          No personnel means no personnel at risk which means no excuse to bomb because 'personnel are at risk'

          The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
          Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

          by InAntalya on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 09:07:51 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I gather (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            TomP, mosesfreeman, Catte Nappe

            that part of them were actually withdrawn to Erbil, which is a bit ironic.

            well now, but apparently you seem to prefer non-engagement. Aha, thats a bit clearer.

            Thereby, you would seem to leave the fate of the people there (all sides) at the mercy of the outcome of their military struggle as-is.

            Or would you at least agree with US military goods support to, Kurds, or Shia militias, or whoever appears as an effective anti-IS force?

            •  My position is and has been: (6+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              marsanges, Catte Nappe, frostbite, AoT, allenjo, CwV

              Provide huge amounts of humanitarian aid.

              Thus freeing up the manpower and resources which are expended on caring for 1,000,000 refugees. (ISIS is effective because it doesn't waste any resources on taking care of local populations)

              There may be some need to supply military goods but it has to be done very carefully. The balance between the two Iraqi Kurdish groups and between the Iraqi government and the KRG have to be taken into account. Also there are already quite a lot of weapons there, maybe even enough.

              The US can continue to work with the Iraqi AF and Turkish government in air dropping supplies. Many here believe that only the US is dropping/has dropped supplies. This is just bullshit.

              The battle in Sinjar can only be won on the ground. The US dropping a few bombs there will make no difference.

              And the Sinjar battle, I believe, can only be won by the Syrian Kurds and the US in its stupid political shortsightedness will not help the Syrian Kurds.

              Also I have stated may times that the Iraqi military is now using the tactics which the Syrian military has developed over the past three years. And I expect the Iraqi military to go on the offensive in a month or so.

              The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
              Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

              by InAntalya on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 09:45:41 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  What "military goods" (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                duhban

                do you specifically have in mind?

                I have heard that the Peshmerga are facing rockets and artillery with only kalashnikovs. They clearly need something capable of counter-battery fire, but I don't know what sort of system would be both up to the job and easy to deliver and use.

                You could drop javelins and AT4s for use in direct fire situations, but they wouldn't be of much use against real artillery. Mortars perhaps, but they'd be outgunned.

                I'm thinking airstrikes make sense if only to wipe out IS's heavy weapons efficiently. Might even the odds somewhat, although if I were calling the shots I'd add some AP rounds for good measure.

                … the NSA takes significant care to prevent any abuses and that there is a substantial oversight system in place,” Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-California), said August 23.

                by mosesfreeman on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 10:39:27 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Ask the Syrian Kurds they have the most (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  mosesfreeman

                  experience in dealing with the ISIS(IS).

                  But the US probably won't do that.

                  The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
                  Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

                  by InAntalya on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 10:53:14 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Well they should n/t (0+ / 0-)

                    … the NSA takes significant care to prevent any abuses and that there is a substantial oversight system in place,” Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-California), said August 23.

                    by mosesfreeman on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 11:03:29 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  IS captured a major Syrian base (0+ / 0-)

                    was announced today, I dont know if you saw that

                    Base 93 ??

                    going from memory, look for it.

                    Brigade 93, that was it, I didnt see it a lot in international press

                    According to (the organisation), this victory is simply a stepping stone. IS is mobilising in effect its troops preparing to attack the military airbase at Tabqa, the last bastion of the regime of al Assad in the province of Rakka ...
                    •  That happened a few days ago. (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      marsanges

                      IS is on the attack in two areas in Syria now and has lost ground in two or three others last week and this week.

                      The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
                      Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

                      by InAntalya on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 11:57:34 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  thanks (4+ / 0-)

                        I struggle putting this, and tidbits like this, in context. Thats why I follow you through all diaries, even though I often dont quite see it like you :)

                        Here is deep Netherlands, where a people lives that once was the first to conquer all the worlds seas, and now has wholly forgotten how things are just beyond the dikes. Here we have Geert Wilders running his mouth how IS proves that Islam as such is an evil ideology, blithely driving islamic youth into their arms ...

                        •  There are a lot of people here (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          protectspice

                          who don't know anything and talk like they know everything.

                          Just now in the other diary some are trying to say Obama's bombing resulted in the rescue of people off the mountain.

                          They are complete idiots.

                          The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
                          Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

                          by InAntalya on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 12:18:58 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

      •  Are you suggesting the US should not (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        TomP, Victor Ward, duhban

        do anything to protect US personnel in the area? Even more pertinent, reports are that the US received a formal request for assistance from Kurdish regional authorities or Iraq's central government (or both).

        From this distance, it appears the US military is coordinating with Kurds and Iraqi air force to make humanitarian drops and bombing IS artillery positions because US assistance is needed.

        I hope the IS is soon contained and US involvement no longer needed. At this point the anger seems misplaced and the diary title inappropriate.

        And yeah, I know that the US broke it.

        •  If they are at risk remove them. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          frostbite
          Are you suggesting the US should not do anything to protect US personnel in the area?
          'US assistance is needed' you say. This is true but not bombs. There are much more important types of assistance.

          It seems that people only know how to write comments and don't know how to read. I will draw your attention to the third paragraph:

          Send in humanitarian aid, and a lot of it, and free up the resources the Iraqi government and the KRG are devoting to caring for the 1,000,000 refugees and that will make a huge difference in northern Iraq.

          The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
          Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

          by InAntalya on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 10:04:51 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Yes, I read that sentence, 3rd paragraph. (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            TomP, ybruti, Victor Ward, duhban

            And I replied that

            reports are that the US received a formal request for assistance from Kurdish regional authorities or Iraq's central government (or both).
            Your objection to US bombing Iraq is understandable, but it ignores the reports that the US enters the fray at the request of local governments and is coordinating humanitarian aid and military strikes.
            •  Obama can always say 'no' to requests for (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              AoT

              bombing, if there are any.

              Or does he always just say 'yes' to every country which asks?

              And note that he said the US will bomb to protect US interests.

              I wonder if the Iraqi government and the KRG asked the US to come and bomb only to protect US interests.

              The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
              Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

              by InAntalya on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 10:25:24 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  The personnel that was sent in as trainers (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          InAntalya, protectspice, allenjo

          And about whom it was sworn again and again that it wasn't going to get the US into a war. Now they're the reason for getting involved in a war.

          And people wondered why some of us were resistant to keeping them there. Mission creep.

          And if the US can bomb these groups the US can certainly get it's personnel out of the area as well.

          No War but Class War

          by AoT on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 10:18:08 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  US embassy personnel were moved from (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Victor Ward

            Baghdad to Erbil, the Kurdish capital, in June when IS was marching toward Baghdad. The military forces in Erbil, 275 troops, were sent to safely move embassy personnel and are there to protect them.

            In recent days IS captured strategic towns and is stationed just minutes away from Erbil.

            If those personnel could safely be moved, I'm certain that they would be moved. And really, AoT, bombing from a distant aircraft carrier is the same as safely evacuating several hundred personnel when IS is minutes away?

      •  I agree - the US (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Victor Ward

        should just let the 40,000 women and children starve to death because it would make us look so good in the eyes of Islamic extremists.  

        We could finally regain our moral authority that we're not "just Crusaders protecting Christian lives" - that we are tolerant to others (ISIS) religious beliefs (no matter how extreme they are).

        Or maybe we should let them all die or be slaughtered to "wake up the people" in the region whose eyes are closed to this.

        Yeah...that'll work.

        The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only legitimate object of good government. - Thomas Jefferson

        by ctexrep on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 10:09:32 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You seem to think that the US is the great (0+ / 0-)

          savior of Sinjar.

          The US can only help the Iraqi AF deliver aid to the people there.

          But if it makes you happy to think the US is the Great Savior, go for it, don't let facts get in your way.

          The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
          Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

          by InAntalya on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 10:32:58 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  What does that have to do with bombing (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          InAntalya

          near Erbil? It's almost 250km away. And if we wanted to stop people from starving and dying thirst then bombs aren't the answer, food and water is.

          No War but Class War

          by AoT on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 10:38:26 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  and of course there is always.... (0+ / 0-)

        Erbil Governorate - list of the top US oil companies

        Exxon Mobil
        Chevron
        Aspect Energy
        Marathon Oil Corporation
        Hillwood International Energy
        Hunt Oil
        Prime Oil
        Murphy Oil
        Hess Corporation
        HKN Energy
        Viking International

        _______________The DOD/ War Department, which consumes 22% of the national budget, is the world's largest employer with 3.2 million employees.

        by allenjo on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 02:19:05 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  So far they're in the wrong place for that. n/t (0+ / 0-)
    •  I came across this article today (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      AoT, allenjo
      The former NSA and CIA agent Edward Snowden revealed that the leader of the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria Abu Bakr Al Baghdadi was trained in Israel, various Iranien sources reported.

      Snowden added that the American CIA and the British Intelligence collaborated with the Israeli Mossad to create a terrorist organization that is able to attract all extremists of the world to one place, using a strategy called “the hornet’s nest”.

      The “Hornet’s nest’’ strategy aims to bring all the major threats to one place in order to track them, and mostly to shake the stability of the Arab countries. The NSA agent revealed that the ISIS “Calif”,  Abu Bakr Al Baghdadi went trough intense military training in the Israeli intelligence “Mossad”.

      Besides military training, Al Baghdadi studied communication and public speaking skills in order to attract “terrorists” from all the corners of the world

      http://moroccantimes.com/...

      "I find it incredible that Keith Alexander can sell secrets and is free to make a huge profit without being slammed with Espionage Act charges and Snowden is stateless" Jesselyn Radack.

      by snoopydawg on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 10:49:47 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I've seen that bandied about (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        AoT, highacidity, snoopydawg, Lawrence

        the Arabic media for a couple of weeks at least, but I've never quoted it because I couldn't find a link to the source documents that were mentioned.

        It would be an explosive story if it could be proven, but without seeing the actual source, it's just the Arabic echo chamber reverberating the same allegations.

        If you can find the original Snowden documents, I would love to see them.

        … the NSA takes significant care to prevent any abuses and that there is a substantial oversight system in place,” Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-California), said August 23.

        by mosesfreeman on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 11:09:01 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I agree with you that it might be a made up story (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mosesfreeman

          This is also posted on that link:

          EDITOR’S NOTE: Time Magazine has released on July 19, 2014 an article arguing that this story, which was reported by many Iranian sources including Iran News Agency, is a conspiracy theory from Iran and that it is not true. Nevertheless, it is worth pointing out that though the piece of news went viral on the net, Snowden did not refute the claims of the Iranian News Agency.

          "I find it incredible that Keith Alexander can sell secrets and is free to make a huge profit without being slammed with Espionage Act charges and Snowden is stateless" Jesselyn Radack.

          by snoopydawg on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 11:55:38 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I just did a quick google search (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            protectspice, mosesfreeman

            and found many links to the story.
            Some from reputable websites, another from info wars, which is not reputable, imo.

            But it is amazing how fast they grew, and where did they get their weapons, and who is funding them?

            "I find it incredible that Keith Alexander can sell secrets and is free to make a huge profit without being slammed with Espionage Act charges and Snowden is stateless" Jesselyn Radack.

            by snoopydawg on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 11:59:02 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  It's kind of an open secret that KSA has a hand (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              snoopydawg

              in their success, whether through the government or private parties. If they were NASCARs they would definitely be sporting the KSA logo prominently. As far as other logos go, I won't speculate, but we can reverse engineer it by watching who they don't attack.

              Here are a couple of good links:

              Saudi Arabia: Don't blame it all on the Islamic State

              Iraq crisis: How Saudi Arabia helped Isis take over the north of the country

              … the NSA takes significant care to prevent any abuses and that there is a substantial oversight system in place,” Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-California), said August 23.

              by mosesfreeman on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 05:51:19 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Watching who they don't attack (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                mosesfreeman

                Is a great idea.
                I posted that article on another site, and 1 person said, while he didn't disbelieve it, it doesn't sound like something Snowden would reveal.
                I agree, he usually doesn't day things like that, and if he did know about it, I think Greenwald would have written about it now that the US is going back in to Iraq.

                "I find it incredible that Keith Alexander can sell secrets and is free to make a huge profit without being slammed with Espionage Act charges and Snowden is stateless" Jesselyn Radack.

                by snoopydawg on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 10:13:02 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

      •  Do you really believe all the bullshit propaganda? (0+ / 0-)

        You know that lies, exaggeration and conspiracy theories are all really popular in this part of the world, right? Where half the population is illiterate and filled with hatred, willing to believe anything?

        Remember the "Iraqi information minister?", or the the "9/11 is a Mossad plot" crowd?. Hell, these people still believe Jews use blood to make Matzah.

        Please, let's try to keep things factual.

  •  How about if we just blow up our own stolen (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    blueoasis, Victor Ward

    equipment?  

    Ted Cruz president? Pardon my Vietnamese, but Ngo Pho King Way.

    by ZedMont on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 08:14:41 AM PDT

  •  If the US restricted its efforts (16+ / 0-)

    to humanitarian aid, would the chaotic government of Iraq be capable of containing ISIS. It really doesn't look like they would be. If they aren't contained the humanitarian crisis is just going to get worse. Something more than just humanitarian aid is required in this situation. Where is it going to come from?

    •  The American exceptionalism and (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      frostbite

      brown Muslims can't do anything line never gets old, does it?

      The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
      Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

      by InAntalya on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 08:22:34 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Do you think that the Iraqi government (14+ / 0-)

        is capable of bring the situation under control without outside military support? If they could I think that would be preferable to US intervention. However, making the observation that they have so far demonstrated a serious lack of the ability to do that does not constitute saying that brown Muslims can't do anything. And I really think you know that it does not.  

        •  "America can do it and brown Muslim Iraqis can't" (0+ / 0-)

          according to you.

          ... just because the Iraqi government forces don't act according to YOUR expectations.

          The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
          Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

          by InAntalya on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 08:30:59 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  You are throwing a screen of flack (12+ / 0-)

            to avoid answering all of the questions that are being posed to you in this diary. You really are not dealing from the top of the deck. I thus see little reason to take what you have to say as other than just empty rhetoric.

            •  Which question? (0+ / 0-)

              The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
              Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

              by InAntalya on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 08:45:07 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  This question (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Patango, leftynyc
                Do you think that the Iraqi government (10+ / 0-)
                is capable of bring the situation under control without outside military support?
                •  It depends on whether you mean (0+ / 0-)

                  'any outside military support'.

                  Even if you do, the answer is still yes.

                  Look at what the Syrian Kurds have been able to do for more than two years without support.

                  And the Iraqi military and Peshmerga are in much better conditions than the Syrian Kurds.

                  You also seem to want the Iraqi military to operate on your  timeline.

                  The Iraqi military seems to be taking advantage of the tactics which the Syrian military has developed over the past three years and were probably planning an offensive for next month.

                  The Peshmerga's weaknesses, though, were discovered and taken advantage of by ISIS so the situation has changed.

                  I will state again

                  Send in humanitarian aid, and a lot of it, and free up the resources the Iraqi government and the KRG are devoting to caring for the 1,000,000 refugees and that will make a huge difference in northern Iraq.
                  Free up the manpower and supplies and the battles in northern Iraq will change dramatically.

                  If there is outside military support it may go better for the Iraqi military and Peshmerga or it may go worse. It depends on the type of support.

                  The US bombing in Iraq will most probably attract even more radical individuals to join ISIS(IS) and extend the 'war'.

                  The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
                  Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

                  by InAntalya on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 11:10:12 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

            •  Point of calm, (5+ / 0-)

              1. The US and The West Created the mess,

              2. the US and The West withdrew because they couldn't manage the mess,

              InAntalya is IMHO, justifiable angry for a lot of reasons,

              For example, a lot of Iraqi Helicopter Pilots have been wounded and killed. Why? Because the US restricted the Iraqi Airforce access to EO guidance systems and "proper gunships", to the point that Iraqi Pilots are having to make suicidal gun runs at MANPAD protected columns, with helicopters not even designed for the job, rather than sitting at range and firing off guided missile strikes.

              Russian Pilot "volunteers" are flying Iraqi SU25's on air strikes, Iranian Air Force Assets and Syrian Airforce assets are flying strikes, and even the Turks May be getting involved. Why? because the US refused to "stand up" an Iraqi Airforce.

              Maliki, for example, over and over get's blamed, but he didn't set up the lists system, the Constitution, the share system. The College Republicans did. It was designed to make Iraq ungovernable, all Maliki is doing, and has been doing, is play the best game he can, for his constituency.

              Obama is the 4th US President in a row to bomb Iraq. 7 terms of Presidents. That should make anyone shake their heads.

              After three decades of breaking the place, maybe the "best" thing that we could do, is help the "locals", put the place back together, by letting them take the lead and doing it the way they think best, and just helping, you know, constructively.

              They can't possibly do a worse job than we did.

              •  I don't see any shortage of good reasons for (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Patango, aimeehs

                him to be angry. I have repeatedly asked him if he believes that the Iraqi government is capable of bringing the situation under control. Instead of responding to that question he accuses me of racist sentiments. I think that I am asking a reasonable and asking it in a reasonable manner.

                •  Your question is reasonable Richard (0+ / 0-)

                  My answer is , dems have agreed to cuts in USA social services the last 6 years because of our debt , for dems to turn around and demand we go save the world strikes me as offensive

                  How much is the bill for Iraq so far? How much money and how many armies does the middle east have? They can take care of their own dysfunctions , we have enough of our own

                  I am fine with what Obama is doing right now , anything beyond that just makes the dem party look as dysfunctional as the GOP , and disingenuous to its own voters

                  Beer Drinkers & Hell Raisers

                  by Patango on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 10:45:01 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  And to me the question smells. (0+ / 0-)

                  The incapable Iraqis under whom everything will just get worse, require outside, US, help.

                  The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
                  Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

                  by InAntalya on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 11:23:22 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Asking a question (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    JNEREBEL, aimeehs

                    does not imply what the answer should be. It is a question with very practical implications under the circumstances. Unlike Bush's invasion the present US presence is at the invitation of the Iraqi government.

                    I do not presume to be an laptop warrior who presumes to know with certainty what should happen half way around the world from me. I see nothing unreasonable about asking questions if one is prepared to listen to the answers. I do find your baseless accusations unreasonable.

                    •  You find them unreasonable. (0+ / 0-)

                      I don't.

                      The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
                      Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

                      by InAntalya on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 11:52:37 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  Richard, (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Oh Mary Oh

                      I find InAntalya's anger/frustration quite understandable,

                      Along with of late, the short fuse.

                      InAntalya is spending a lot of effort providing local information from the region,

                      Once upon a time, something the "better" news agencies provided,

                      And the MSM get's parroted here, Hurrah! Obama for saving 20,000 today, and that this mess is all Maliki  and the Iraqi's fault.

                      For every informed, nuanced question or comment, there are 5 or 6 stupid ones repeating the MSM's disproven memes.

              •  Obama is essentially doing so. (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                ybruti, Lawrence, amyzex

                Note that he did not order US planes to attack IS as a campaign or anything like that. His order was defensive (protect their assets); only implicitly helping the "locals" in as fas as that may break ISIS attack spearheads. Saying he is the 4th Pres to have Iraq bombed is the kind of saying that is technically true under a very narrow angle, but at the same time highly misleading because these different presidents were all ordering very very different actions - militarily and politically.

                No way one can honestly throw the no fly zones, the aggressive Bush war, and this defensive order in one pot and call it an analysis because it all involves warplanes.

                So far, Obama´s approach is minimalist; it´s just what you suggest: "letting (the locals) take the lead and (do) it the way they think best".  

        •  The Iranian military is American trained (0+ / 0-)

          and 10 times larger than ISIS. Why should we be more motivated to stop ISIS than they are? It could be that the folks on the ground know a bit more about all the issues involved than we do.

          The only people who will surely profit from an American military involvement in this conflict are the politicians,  the media, and the MIC.

          It will help further divide the Muslim world, so it could be said that the racists who suffer from Islamophobia will be happy.

          War is costly. Peace is priceless!

          by frostbite on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 10:21:34 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Given that we seem to be bombing to help (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    native, amyzex, Victor Ward, frostbite

    the Kurds, I wonder if this is tacit admission that the US might be supporting a future Kurdish state?  Bombing now makes no sense otherwise.  

    I'm all for providing air drops for humanitarian purposes--that's understandable, but I don't see how anything has really changed on the ground to merit a direct US military involvement.

    To be free and just depends on us. Victor Hugo.

    by dizzydean on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 08:20:21 AM PDT

  •  If you were stuck up on that mountain (12+ / 0-)

    would you want the people trapping / hunting you to be attacked ?
    Would you care who came to your aid ?
    Would you say from up on the mountain , those darn Americans should not bombs they should just drop food and water ?

    "please love deeply...openly and genuinely." A. M. H.

    by indycam on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 08:20:43 AM PDT

    •  The US is NOT bombing anywhere near (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      native, frostbite

      that mountain. Get your facts right and try again.

      The Syrian Kurds are the ones who are trying to open an escape route for those on the mountain.

      The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
      Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

      by InAntalya on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 08:26:09 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  You avoided answering the questions . (5+ / 0-)

        Would you like another try ?

        "please love deeply...openly and genuinely." A. M. H.

        by indycam on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 08:30:02 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I answered it. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          frostbite
          The Syrian Kurds are the ones who are trying to open an escape route for those on the mountain.
          The US is not involved, and most probably won't be in any military action around the mountain. Even if the US drops a few bombs it will make essentially no difference in that battle.

          The US is only, and can only, assisting the Iraqi AF in dropping supplies.

          The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
          Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

          by InAntalya on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 08:41:56 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  tho I don't yet find an exact number, thousands (0+ / 0-)

        have been moved to safety, having nothing to do with the US bombing.

        _______________The DOD/ War Department, which consumes 22% of the national budget, is the world's largest employer with 3.2 million employees.

        by allenjo on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 03:10:15 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Parallels to the Khmer Rouge (10+ / 0-)

    The situation in Iraq is eerily similar to what happened in Cambodia when the Khmer Rouge seized power. The U.S. had just exited from a long and unpopular war next door and had no stomach to jump back in, no matter how awful the Khmer Rouge was. So millions died as part of a fanatical cleansing program until Vietnam finally intervened.

    There were no good choices in 1975 and there are no good choices today.

  •  The U.S. dropped food and water for the starving (9+ / 0-)

    Yezidi on the mountain, as well.

    That's more than anyone else has done, jfyi.

    Food and water drops aren't going to stop artillery, tanks, and other heavy-duty military equipment, though.

    "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

    by Lawrence on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 08:24:59 AM PDT

    •  Bullshit. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      frostbite, allenjo

      The Iraqi AF has been dropping supplies, in cooperation with the Turkish government, to people on that mountain for three days now.

      And from your comment I also understand that you don't know what's happening in the area around that mountain.

      But you like to make claims with no basis in fact.

      The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
      Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

      by InAntalya on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 08:34:33 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  This Yezidi member of the Iraqi parliament doesn't (6+ / 0-)

        seem to agree with you:

        But whatever... you have a problem with U.S. planes bombing I.S. artillery positions.  I doubt the people personally having to face ISIS would agree with you.

        "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

        by Lawrence on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 08:45:33 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Bullshit again. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          frostbite

          You are actually trying to claim that the Iraqi AF has not been dropping supplies for three days.

          And you are actually trying to claim that you know how the battle around the mountain is progressing.

          But you are wrong on both.

          The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
          Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

          by InAntalya on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 08:53:26 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I hadn't heard that. (0+ / 0-)

            Do you have a reference for that?

            Gondwana has always been at war with Laurasia.

            by AaronInSanDiego on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 09:55:46 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Obviously you do (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            leftynyc, JNEREBEL, aimeehs

            are you tweeting from the location?

            You seem to be the only one "informed or well read" enough to comment - plus your totally condescending to most posters - so I'll call bullshit on you.

            Here's a linkshowing the dead children.  But I guess that's bullshit.  Probably the media doctored the photos.

            ISIS is hunting the Yazidi's because of some ancient disrespect of some guy not bowing to their Mohammed / Muhammed (or however they spell it).

            Regardless - it's shameful - they were not aggressive - just peacefully living their lives until the fuckheads came around - so I guess I'm all for getting rid of those bastards - bullshit on them.

            The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only legitimate object of good government. - Thomas Jefferson

            by ctexrep on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 10:24:51 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I checked the entire link. Many photos (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              allenjo

              but none showing children with their heads cut off, as someone has charged ISIS of doing on this site. In past photos ISIS was showing death prisoners shot dead to spread fear among all resistance fighters. So is it simply the usual pro-war propaganda that children heads are cut off?

              We seem to quickly forget how the lies and propaganda paved the way for both wars on Iraq and the war on Vietnam. It's a good idea to suspect spend in all news stories.

              War is costly. Peace is priceless!

              by frostbite on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 10:39:08 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  We surely do (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                frostbite
                We seem to quickly forget how the lies and propaganda paved the way for both wars on Iraq and the war on Vietnam.

                _______________The DOD/ War Department, which consumes 22% of the national budget, is the world's largest employer with 3.2 million employees.

                by allenjo on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 03:12:47 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  Oh, so pictures of dead children on the mountain (0+ / 0-)

              makes all the bullshit you write magically correct.

              Sure it does.

              The U.S. dropped food and water for the starving  Yezidi on the mountain, as well.

              That's more than anyone else has done, jfyi.

              Food and water drops aren't going to stop artillery, tanks, and other heavy-duty military equipment, though

              No, that's NOT more than anyone else has done.

              And the third sentence (artillery, tanks, and other heavy-duty military equipment) shows that you don't know how the battles around the mountain are progressing.

              The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
              Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

              by InAntalya on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 10:41:21 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  Yeah, you are right. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            aimeehs

            the Iraqi Air Force has been doing air drops:

            The US military is already helping the Iraqi government co-ordinate air drops of vital supplies to at least 40,000 Iraqis, mostly from the Yazidi minority, trapped on top of Mount Sinjar in the north after death threats from the Islamists who have overrun much of Sunni and northern Iraq.
            http://www.theguardian.com/...

            And it obviously wasn't enough... otherwise there wouldn't be the need for U.S. humanitarian airdrops.

            So, tell us, who else has stepped up to the plate?  Russia?  Nope.  China?  Nope.  The E.U.?  Nope.  Saudi Arabia?  Nope  Iran?  Nope. The Arab League?  Nope.

            "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

            by Lawrence on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 12:28:47 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  humanitarian crisis (0+ / 0-)

    I wonder if the Republican leadership will now support the humanitarian crisis currently taking place in our immigration detention centers.

  •  The Armenians were not the only victims (21+ / 0-)

    of the genocide in Turkey in 1914.  The Yezidis were killed off too.  This is (mostly) forgotten in Turkey today.

    A genocide against Christians and Yezidis is happening today.  

    I support bombing IS quite thoroughly, enough to permit Kurdish forces - KDP, YPG, whoever - to push IS back and to allow the Yezidis and Christians to recover their homes and land.  

    “If the misery of the poor be caused not by the laws of nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin.” Charles Darwin

    by ivorybill on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 08:33:36 AM PDT

  •  I just think it's funny to see so many people here (11+ / 0-)

    falling all over themselves to support bombing in Iraq for humanitarian reasons when they've spent the last 11 years or so ... rejecting bombing Iraq for humanitarian reasons.

    The second biggest argument for the Iraq war was that Saddam was killing his own people, mainly the Kurds.  And it's the same argument today.

    "This time it's different!"

    Hillary Clinton's Liberal Ranking http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/8/10/122232/619

    by tigercourse on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 08:34:14 AM PDT

    •  I plead guilty (0+ / 0-)

      I think it's the first time I've ever supported bombing. Sue me! LOL!

      … the NSA takes significant care to prevent any abuses and that there is a substantial oversight system in place,” Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-California), said August 23.

      by mosesfreeman on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 10:00:11 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  If the fighting in Iraq goes on long enough (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Victor Ward, frostbite

    planes flying from a carrier named after Obama will strike some militants somewhere in Iraq.  It's up to Iraqis to end this madness.

    The Stars and Bars and the red swastika banner are both offerings to the same barbaric god.

    by amyzex on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 08:37:43 AM PDT

    •  Don't you (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      AoT

      Don't you have to be a veteran to get an Aircraft Carrier named after you?

      I don't know how I'm meant to act with all of you lot. Sometimes I don't try, I just na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na

      by Zornorph on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 09:23:53 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  FDR had one named after him and he wasn't in the (0+ / 0-)

        military. That was a while ago now so it might have changed.

        No War but Class War

        by AoT on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 10:47:03 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  No, you don't (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        amyzex, Oh Mary Oh

        There a carrier named after John Stennis, a senator (D-MS) who never served in the military but who was a big supporter of military spending.  

        It is becoming increasingly common to name ships after politicians as opposed to war heroes or veterans in general.  On of the newer Navy ships is named after Gabby Giffords, for example.

        As for FDR, he never was in the Navy, but did serve as Secretary of the Navy, which does make naming one after him a little more line with older tradition.  

        Reagan, btw, actually joined the Army Reserves in the mid-1930s -- a very uncommon thing to do at the time -- so technically his carrier counts as being named after someone with military service.

  •  I note a good many here support US bombing (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    amyzex, frostbite, mosesfreeman, allenjo

    I am very torn over the decision

    •  I am not torn by it at all, I totally oppose it. (0+ / 0-)

      Dropping food and water should be all that US does alone.

      If there is to be further military action past the 3 airstrikes today, it should be a NATO action.

      American can't afford Americans, how can it continue to always be the global war power?

      _______________The DOD/ War Department, which consumes 22% of the national budget, is the world's largest employer with 3.2 million employees.

      by allenjo on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 03:22:20 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  no it's about saving lives (10+ / 0-)

    and stoping the ISIS. I'm sorry that's not sexy enough for you

    Der Weg ist das Ziel

    by duhban on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 08:50:25 AM PDT

    •  Really? (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      protectspice, TJ, frostbite

      So where has this US 'saving lives' and 'stopping the ISIS' been for the past two years? ... or even the past two months?

      History proves your statement is not true.

      The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
      Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

      by InAntalya on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 08:55:58 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I really am starting to hate this strawman (6+ / 0-)

        You don't get it both ways on this issue so please pick a reason you're outraged and stick to it.

        Der Weg ist das Ziel

        by duhban on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 08:59:48 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Which both ways would that be? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          frostbite

          You claim 'it's about saving lives and stoping the ISIS.'

          History proves you wrong.

          The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
          Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

          by InAntalya on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 09:02:36 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  don't be obtuse (10+ / 1-)

            you want to simultaneously hold the US responsible for 'not acting fast enough' and for acting.

            That's hypocritical and dishonest.

            Der Weg ist das Ziel

            by duhban on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 09:04:32 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  And you lie. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              frostbite
              you want to simultaneously hold the US responsible for 'not acting fast enough' and for acting.
              Where did I "hold the US responsible for 'not acting fast enough'"?

              I didn't.

              You lie.

              The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
              Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

              by InAntalya on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 09:11:30 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  some free advice (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                leftynyc, ChadmanFL

                don't make easily disprovable statements

                So where has this US 'saving lives' and 'stopping the ISIS' been for the past two years? ... or even the past two months?
                That's you saying the US hasn't acted fast enough.

                Ready to apologize?

                Der Weg ist das Ziel

                by duhban on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 09:20:20 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  Clear this up for me. (12+ / 0-)

                Two days ago, you put up a diary with this title:

                Four countries and two militias are battling ISIS(IS) right now, guess who isn't
                In this diary, you said:
                The US has offered essentially no assistance.
                Two days ago, about battling ISIS, you said:
                The Iraqi Kurdish Peshmerga, Syrian Kurds, and the Iraqi Air Force are all together battling ISIS(IS) is northern Iraq right now, trying to save the Yazidis and the largest dam in Iraq.
                In today's diary, the U.S. is battling ISIS(IS), in Iraq, where, two days ago, it was "guess who isn't?"  
                Now you say it's a stupid idea? Which is it, and what changed in 48 hours?
                •  Is 'guess who isn't' (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Oh Mary Oh

                  a call for the US to bomb Iraq?

                  The US can do many things, and I have written about them many times, other than bombing Iraq.

                  Did you miss the third paragraph:

                  Send in humanitarian aid, and a lot of it, and free up the resources the Iraqi government and the KRG are devoting to caring for the 1,000,000 refugees and that will make a huge difference in northern Iraq.
                  The US doesn't need to bomb Iraq to play a major roll in the battle against ISIS(IS).

                  The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
                  Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

                  by InAntalya on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 09:52:41 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I didn't miss the third paragraph in this diary. (4+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Catte Nappe, duhban, JNEREBEL, ChadmanFL

                    Two days ago, here's the thrust of your diary:

                    Right now four countries - Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, and Iran - and at least two militias - Syrian Kurds and Iraqi Kurds - are battling ISIS(IS).
                    Guess who isn't?
                    The US. The US has offered essentially no assistance.
                    In your diary today, you're calling for humanitarian aid. In your diary two days ago, you asked why the U.S. "has essentially offered no assistance", and that assistance two days ago meant military assistance.
                    You were very specific two days ago about military assistance.
                    •  Really? Prove it. (0+ / 0-)
                      that assistance two days ago meant military assistance.
                      In your mind it seems 'assistance' can only be 'military assistance'.

                      So I'd like to ask whether or not in your mind 'military assistance' can only be 'bombing'?

                      The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
                      Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

                      by InAntalya on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 10:19:33 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Prove what? (4+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        duhban, JNEREBEL, ChadmanFL, aimeehs

                        The meaning of the word assistance you used in a diary two days that specifically described military "battling"?
                        No. Two days ago you said "Guess who isn't?" providing "essentially no assistance." You listed everyone who is providing "assistance to those battling".
                        Your words: "assistance to those battling."

                        •  And as I have written many times (0+ / 0-)

                          including in the third paragraph today

                          Send in humanitarian aid, and a lot of it, and free up the resources the Iraqi government and the KRG are devoting to caring for the 1,000,000 refugees and that will make a huge difference in northern Iraq.
                          Humanitarian assistance will have a major positive effect on the outcome of the battles - will be 'assistance to those battling'.

                          Maybe you should read a diary's text before you start commenting.

                          The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
                          Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

                          by InAntalya on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 10:47:29 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  I read your diaries two days ago and today. (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            ChadmanFL, duhban, JNEREBEL

                            Today you said humanitarian aid. In your comment above you are using your "humanitarian assistance" text from today's diary for your diary two days ago where you did not.
                            You did not say humanitarian assistance two days ago. Two days ago you asked "Guess who isn't?" offering "assistance" to "those battling". Your title two days ago:

                            Four countries and two militias are battling ISIS(IS) right now, guess who isn't.
                            You answered your own question two days ago about who is not "battling" ISIS(IS). You said
                            Guess who isn't?
                            The US.
                            Today you say humanitarian assistance. Two days ago you described in your words: "assistance to those battling."
                          •  In your mind bombs are the first thing you (0+ / 0-)

                            think of, it seems.

                            Not in mine.

                            The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
                            Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

                            by InAntalya on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 11:26:24 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  You are reduced to personal insults. (4+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            ChadmanFL, duhban, JNEREBEL, aimeehs

                            To use your text from this diary to defend something you said completely different in a diary two days ago is disingenuous and hypocritical, to say the least.
                            I am done here.

                    •  will rob, you seem to be a big fan of InAntalya's (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      willrob

                      diaries. As I am. Apparently you must be a big fan of her many well written and concise anti-war rants that she often does. You can recall exactly what she has written a couple days ago. Your memory is a bit better than mine.

                      But as a fan, it makes more sense to me to stick to comments related to the current diary. I thought, that this was the general ideas relating to Dkos diary policies.

                      However, I think that you have a point regarding the language that was used in a diary a couple days ago. Having seen many of InAntalya's anti-war diaries, the specific language that you point out could have been written differently.

                      War is costly. Peace is priceless!

                      by frostbite on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 12:02:23 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

            •  HR for insults and distortion of diary (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              allenjo

              Below is what is written in InAntalya's diary. It's quite clear that she is not asking for no action from the U.S.

              Send in humanitarian aid, and a lot of it, and free up the resources the Iraqi government and the KRG are devoting to caring for the 1,000,000 refugees and that will make a huge difference in northern Iraq.
              HR for insulting remarks and for gross distortion of diary.

              War is costly. Peace is priceless!

              by frostbite on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 10:56:07 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  just be honest and admit the HR is for disagreemen (4+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                ChadmanFL, JNEREBEL, aimeehs, charlatan

                Der Weg ist das Ziel

                by duhban on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 11:02:37 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I don't agree with the HRed comment (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Lawrence, duhban, JNEREBEL

                  but I don't think the HR is warranted. uprated.

                  All the mods seem to have abandoned the place lately so it's up to us to make sure that shit actually gets enforced.

                  No War but Class War

                  by AoT on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 11:38:23 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  AoT, are comments distorting any diary HRable? (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    allenjo

                    Comment by duhban

                    you want to simultaneously hold the US responsible for 'not acting fast enough' and for acting.

                    That's hypocritical and dishonest.

                    What InAntalya wrote in diary
                    Send in humanitarian aid, and a lot of it, and free up the resources the Iraqi government and the KRG are devoting to caring for the 1,000,000 refugees and that will make a huge difference in northern Iraq.
                    AoT, I generally do not believe in giving HRs. I have done it rarely and this is the first time in 8 years that my HR was uprated and criticized. InAntalya does not suggest "not acting."

                    I realize that many here are more knowledgeable about all the fine points relating to HRs and other practices on DKos. I do know that a disagreement is involved. But IMHO, duhban falsifies what was said in diary, and that should be HRable.

                    War is costly. Peace is priceless!

                    by frostbite on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 01:26:53 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  In this case I don't think it's HRable. (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      frostbite, JNEREBEL

                      No.

                      If interpreting other people's comments incorrectly was Hrable I'd have been banned a long time ago.

                      Again, I don't like the comment, I just don't think it's HRable. I don't know of any rule that outlaws being wrong about shit or simplifying a complex position. If there was then this place would be empty by now.

                      I know Duhban makes plenty of comments that are bad enough to HR, I don't think this is one. If he's wrong show he's wrong like you did right here, don't HR him.

                      No War but Class War

                      by AoT on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 01:31:00 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

      •  McCain, Graham helped fund ISIS (5+ / 0-)

        From the Atlantic Monthly:

        “Thank God for the Saudis and Prince Bandar,” John McCain told CNN’s Candy Crowley in January 2014. “Thank God for the Saudis and Prince Bandar, and for our Qatari friends,” the senator said once again a month later, at the Munich Security Conference.

        McCain was praising Prince Bandar bin Sultan, then the head of Saudi Arabia’s intelligence services and a former ambassador to the United States, for supporting forces fighting Bashar al-Assad’s regime in Syria. McCain and Senator Lindsey Graham had previously met with Bandar to encourage the Saudis to arm Syrian rebel forces.

        •  Wasn't that something? (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          AoT, protectspice

          Before that he took selfies with the guy who later ate a victim's heart.

          I judge people by the company they keep, LOL!

          … the NSA takes significant care to prevent any abuses and that there is a substantial oversight system in place,” Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-California), said August 23.

          by mosesfreeman on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 10:58:33 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  primary reason to protect American interests (0+ / 0-)

      isn't that what Obama said?

      American interests include the major US oil companies in Erbil, even Halliburton is there.

      _______________The DOD/ War Department, which consumes 22% of the national budget, is the world's largest employer with 3.2 million employees.

      by allenjo on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 03:26:14 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  humanitarian reason for war (0+ / 0-)

    Justifying war for humanitarian reasons is the new left rationale for war.  Before the Iraq war I attended a book festival debate with Mark Danner, Christopher Hitchens, Michael Ignatieff and Robert Scheer.  All 4 had a history of being on the left and yet Hitchens and Ignatieff were pro war for humanitarian reasons.

    The humanitarian calls for war were so overwhelming that many did not even hear the opposing arguments.  When I attended the debate I could not even believe what I was hearing.  For many, all reason goes out the door.  It seems that for those that argued for war there were no repercussions and no lessons were learned and humanitarianism continued to be a good reason for war.  In fact, sometimes the bullshit replaces true historical fact and becomes true historical fact.

    The best example I have found is when I read about an interview of the judge at the  Milosevic trial who was quoted as saying there was not enough evidence to convict Milosevic of genocide, but everyone believes he was a genocidal maniac.  I am pretty sure the judge was right yet the mainstream view is the opposite.  Anything can be done for humanitarian reasons.

  •  Agree with this right now (5+ / 0-)
  •  Allons enfants ... (4+ / 0-)
    Le Président de la République condamne de la façon la plus ferme les exactions intolérables qui continuent d’être menées par l’Etat islamique contre la population irakienne dans son ensemble et contre les minorités vulnérables que sont les Chrétiens d’Irak et les Yazidis. ...

    Le Président de la République appelle à la poursuite et à l’intensification de la mobilisation internationale. ... Le Président de la République se félicite par ailleurs de la décision importante prise par le Président OBAMA d’autoriser des frappes aériennes ciblées afin de contrer l’Etat islamique ainsi que de mettre en œuvre un effort humanitaire dont nous savons combien il est impérieux et urgent.

    La France va examiner avec les Etats-Unis et l’ensemble de ses partenaires les actions qui pourraient être menées afin d’apporter conjointement tout le soutien nécessaire pour mettre un terme aux souffrances des populations civiles. Elle est prête à y prendre toute sa part. ...

  •  Look who's taking a dump on the US now (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mosesfreeman, leftynyc

    The same guy who wrote this just a few days ago:

    Have you noticed how many Israeli/pro-Israeli commentators don't hesitate to take a big dump on the US, the supposed greatest ally of Israel?

    If you read and watch news and commentary about Gaza and Israel you will far too often see commentary that goes something like this:

    "It's bad that a lot of Palestinian (but they usually say Arab) civilians in Gaza have been killed/have died (but they never say killed by IDF bombing) but the US has done much, much worse in Afghanistan, Iraq, Yemen, and other places.

    What a lovely bunch they are.

    How lovely it is to see you taking a dump!
  •  On Democracy Now! Phyllis Bennis was saying (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Lawrence, Oh Mary Oh

    that the al-Maliki government has been seen as so corrupt and pro-Shiite that many Sunnis have been unwilling to put their forces into the field against ISIS in Iraq, and that they would if al-Maliki were out of the picture (because they are not really pro-ISIS). This along with the fact that many of the weapons ISIS is using were captured from the Iraqi government make a case for the removal of Al-Maliki as a first step toward getting the violence under control.

    I cannot of course vouch for the accuracy of what she was saying but it's a perspective I have not heard on commercial media to-date.

    •  I've seen that discussed even on CNN. (0+ / 0-)

      al-Maliki is a big part of the problem in Iraq, as he has basically tried to set up a Shia dictatorship.  And I'd be willing to make a bet that this is a big part of the reason for the Obama Administration's reluctance to get involved and also for them sticking to "pinpoint strikes" even now.

      "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

      by Lawrence on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 12:46:47 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  It appears you are indeed correct (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Oh Mary Oh

    that none of the US airstrikes have aided the YPG in their efforts to open a corridor of escape for the people on the mountain.  Do you know of a good English language source of news on their plight as of today?

    The Stars and Bars and the red swastika banner are both offerings to the same barbaric god.

    by amyzex on Fri Aug 08, 2014 at 01:05:18 PM PDT

  •  Oh..Humanitarian aid? Yeah..that'll help (0+ / 0-)

    ISIS. They'll just capture and use the aid for themselves. Perhaps we can send "humanitarian building supplies" too, we all know how Hamas used those.

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