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At this point women make up 44% of the US workforce, yet their average wages are only 77% of those of men. The pay gap has narrowed since the 60s when women began to enter the workforce in growing numbers. Women's level of educational attainment has now caught up with men and at the level of college graduates surpass it.

There are a number of areas in which substantial progress has occurred in closing the gap. About 40% of all positions classified as managers are held by women. 36% of all businesses are owned by women. This is the source  for these statistics.

However, these aggregate statistics mask the way that even with progress, women's workforce participation is still highly skewed in terms pf occupational level and type of industry. The glass ceiling that has kept women and minorities from advancing to senior management positions is well known. There now some notable exceptions but they are still a small minority of such positions. What I want to focus on here is the issue of how women's employment is concentrated in certain industries and poorly represented in others.

Retail and non-financial services are the industry groupings in which women have high levels of employment. Of course a majority of the jobs in those industries represent such low paying activities as fast food workers and retail clerks. Women do represent a significant portion of the managers and business owners in those fields. Those are in fact the industries where most of the advancement for women has occurred. These are also industries with low growth potential. It is the industries in the fields of science and technology where opportunities for the future and the best compensation is to be found. These are the places where women are the least likely to be found.

I've found some good articles recently on gender in two particular areas of what are known as STEM fields, Silicon Valley type information technology and engineering.

There has been increasing pressure on the larger Silicon Valley companies who are raking in the money and stashing it in off shore tax havens, to be more forth coming with information about the make up of their work force. In the technical positions where the opportunities are. This is the situation for Google tech workers. It is pretty comparable to the other major firms.

The piece of this that may be surprising to some is the high percentage of Asian males. The many of these individuals are of Indian origin.

The standard complaint of Google and other companies is that women and non-Asian minorities just aren't in the pipeline that leads to tech jobs. They think that it would be unreasonable to hold them responsible for doing anything to change that.

Working for a big corporation is not the only way that people get ahead in tech. Startups have always played a prominent role in the industry and most of the major companies started out that way. Other people have gotten a hot idea off the ground and then sold it to one of the big companies for big bucks. Pulling that off usually requires attracting investment capital. The venture capital firms operate in the same culture as the big companies.

This Is What Tech’s Ugly Gender Problem Really Looks Like    

Shortly after Kathryn Tucker started RedRover, an app that showcases local events for kids, she pitched the idea to an angel investor at a New York tech event. But it didn’t go over well. When she finished her pitch, the investor said he didn’t invest in women.

When she asked why, he told her. “I don’t like the way women think,” he said. “They haven’t mastered linear thinking.” To prove his point, he explained that his wife could never prioritize her to-do lists properly. And then, as if he was trying to compliment her, he told Tucker she was different. “You’re more male,” he said.

Tucker didn’t need to hear any more. “I said, ‘Thanks very much,’ walked out, and never spoke to him again,” she recalled earlier this year, as part of a panel discussion on “fundraising while female” at the annual Internet Week conference in New York.

There is progress in women being able to attract venture capital, but the successes are more likely to come in the traditional women oriented industries.

Women Taking a Growing Share of Venture Capital

The topic of women’s limited access to highly competitive venture capital (VC) dollars commonly finds its way into conversations about the state of women’s roles as economic players in the economy (Forbes, Businessweek, NYTimes).

While there are currently a lopsided number of VC rounds going to companies founded by men, PitchBook data show that companies with at least one female founder (women-founded) have begun to hit a stride, increasing their share of venture rounds every year for the last 10 years. In 2004, women-founded companies represented a paltry 4% of all U.S. venture deals. Now, such companies represent a record 13% of VC deals through the first half of 2013.

However this is a breakdown of where those deals with women entrepreneurs are happening.
Lest someone might think that this imbalance is unique to the degiratti of Silly Val, there is an interesting study about women in engineering that has just been published.

Study: Uncivil work environment pushing women out of the engineering field

Workers with skills in science, engineering, math and technology are among the most in demand and highest paid of any sector. They are seen as key drivers of innovation, problem-solving and economic growth, who will help shape the future.

And most of them are men.

While that news is hardly shocking, a new National Science Foundation report released on Saturday about why so few women go into engineering, or stay in the field, highlights a key reason: a workplace culture of incivility toward women.

“I wouldn’t call it a hostile environment, but it’s definitely chilly,” said Nadya Fouad, a professor of educational psychology at the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, who presented the results to the American Psychological Association in a talk entitled “Leaning In, But Getting Pushed Back (and Out.)”

Fouad and her colleagues surveyed more than 5,000 women who had graduated from some of the top universities with engineering degrees over the past six decades and found that 40 percent had either quit the field or never entered the profession in the first place.

For more than two decades, women have accounted for about 20 percent of all engineering degrees. Yet fewer than 11 percent of all engineers are women. And this despite a massive funding effort to get more people into STEM fields – $3.4 billion in federal funds for STEM education since fiscal 2010, with $13 million targeted directly at women.

“It’s not about ‘fixing the women’ – making them more confident or anything. It’s really about the climate in the workplace,” Fouad said. “We found that even women who are staying consider leaving because they don’t have supervisor support. They don’t have training and development opportunities. And their colleagues are incivil to them, belittle them, talk behind their backs and undermine them.”

On top of that are inflexible workplace cultures that demand long hours for no clear work-related reasons.

The usual response of male managers to studies such as this is to claim that women workers aren't being subjected to demands and requirements any different from those of male workers. They see women as unwilling/unable to stand up to the stresses of a competitive work environment. However this doesn't really add up when you look at the wider world. The fields in which women are making advancement as managers and owners demand commitment and the ability to deal with the stress of competition. Women are clearly able to master the technical skills required to complete an academic training program. Is it just possible that when women are in a minority situation they get treated differently than their male counterparts?
Drawing from responses from women engineers who were satisfied in their workplaces and were advancing in their careers, Fouad makes four recommendations:

• Recognize the problem. That women aren’t leaving just because they want to spend time with their children. They’re leaving because of the difficult workplace climate and lack of opportunity to advance.

• Change starts from the top. Managers must create a culture that doesn’t tolerate incivility and condescension toward women, and respects all employees’ work-life obligations.

• Implement system-wide changes. Invest in professional training and development and make clear how people advance, with fair criteria. In other words, break up the ‘old boy network’ for getting ahead.

• Implement role-level changes. Communicate clearly what needs to be done, how and by when.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Entrepreneurship implies risk taking (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Wee Mama, Lujane, koNko, VClib

    Males trend to be more risk takers than females;

    Sex Differences in Everyday Risk-Taking Behavior in Humans

    As a computer industry entrepreneur I know that women can be better programmers than men.  There are reasons for it including language abilities;

    Gender Differences in Language Abilities: Evidence from Brain Imaging

    There are no gender differences in vocabulary knowledge, [1], but females tend to have more advanced spelling and grammar skills [3].
    The 1st programmer was a woman, Grace Hopper, I had the honor to meet her early on and I have always remembered this.

    Discriminating against women (or anyone else) is bad business.

    Daily Kos an oasis of truth. Truth that leads to action. UID: 9742

    by Shockwave on Sun Aug 10, 2014 at 03:05:49 PM PDT

  •  As you know tech startups and vc funding are (5+ / 0-)

    A personal interest of mine

    There are several challenges:

    1.  Focusing on STEM degrees and tech positions can actually underestimate the problem. Eg there are a large number of non tech positions which can't be explained away by skill set as far as gender, age  and race bias. In fact, looking at the young White male myth making, the classic myth is of the early twenty something white guy who drops out of college to startup a company in his garage as far as VC stories go

    2. The libertarian bent of tech makes it difficult to find solutions where everyone is pretending they got where they did by their own bootstraps ("disruptive powers") rather than by being connected with the in crowd.

    3. It really does take chutzpah even if one does overcome what can be daunting challenges.

    4. The market place does not care and often is unaware of what innovation is being lost to myopic thinking created by the network gate keepers. For a product or service to go viral and grow requires awareness even if it is a great product or service . So one has to overcome the resistance of the gate keepers to convince to  look beyond the surface even if one proves oneself

  •  it's more than STEM and more than gender (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Richard Lyon, atana, Lujane, koNko, FarWestGirl

    a more complete overhaul of the system needs to occur

    Drawing from responses from women engineers who were satisfied in their workplaces and were advancing in their careers, Fouad makes four recommendations:
    • Recognize the problem. That women aren’t leaving just because they want to spend time with their children. They’re leaving because of the difficult workplace climate and lack of opportunity to advance.

    • Change starts from the top. Managers must create a culture that doesn’t tolerate incivility and condescension toward women, and respects all employees’ work-life obligations.

    • Implement system-wide changes. Invest in professional training and development and make clear how people advance, with fair criteria. In other words, break up the ‘old boy network’ for getting ahead.

    • Implement role-level changes. Communicate clearly what needs to be done, how and by when.

    Warning - some snark may be above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 "If we appear to seek the unattainable, then let it be known that we do so to avoid the unimaginable." (@eState4Column5)

    by annieli on Sun Aug 10, 2014 at 03:19:41 PM PDT

  •  Recent research showed that presentations to (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    elfling, bruh1, koNko, FarWestGirl

    investors were received more favorably if they were from men than women (no surprise given the information presented by this diary) but more surprising is that when the presentation was made by males, the man who was judged better looking by the researchers before the experiment began had a clear advantage over the men of average appearance. Sounds to me like Prom King all over again.

    Life is just a bowl of Cherries, that stain your hands and clothes and have pits that break your teeth.

    by OHdog on Sun Aug 10, 2014 at 03:43:53 PM PDT

    •  Being tall is also correlated with (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Gooserock, bruh1, koNko, FarWestGirl

      that sort of success.

      Don't believe the crap about rational investment decision making. Monkeys with a dart board can do as well.

    •  Early stage investing is a contact sport (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      koNko, OHdog

      Seed stage investors, individual angels or institutional VCs, all have one primary gating criteria. They have to really like the entrepreneur on a personal level. The investors know that over the next three to five years the investor and the entrepreneur will be spending a great deal of time together, and that the start-up will face several life threatening challenges. So it is not surprising that investors have a deep cultural bias. Given that the overwhelming majority of investors are white males, it is understandable why they fund white males.

      Investors are measured by  a single criteria, rate of return. Few limited partners (the investors in venture funds) ever express any interest in the diversity of the venture fund's team. That is changing, but slowly, led by public employee and union pension funds. When diversity becomes an important criteria for limited partners, the investment teams will become more inclusive.

      "let's talk about that" uid 92953

      by VClib on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 05:35:55 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Why does everyone focus on gender and not race? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    elfling, koNko, FarWestGirl

    The largest disparity here is obviously race but the focus remains on gender from one article/post to the next.  This neglect of Black and Hispanic reperesention in tech by the White liberal establishment is very telling. For certain White and Asian women have a easier path into the these high education fields since they are coming out of the same high privelged homes as their brothers but that should not cause us to abandon all interest in the underpriveleged who also represent a vast reserve of untaped potintial.  

    The place where we need resources to turn things around are in poor communities who lack the means to turn kids on rather than directing aide back to the same communities who already most of the tech employees.  Together Black and Hispanic make 35% of the population buta mere 3-5% to women's 17% at 51% of the population. No matter how you spin it minorities are far more underrepresented considering that's BOTH sexes we're talking about.  

      If for whatever reason these White & Asian women don't prefer the tech field (likely perosnal preference) why not tap those minorities who desperatly need a path to the middle class? In this case we help break the cycle of integenerational poverty rather than fulfill the aspirtions of people who's household income will likely be far higher just by virtue of their demographics.

    This kind of privelge defending  the priveleged approach to social justice is seriously problematic and I don't expect it to change anytime soon since Whites and Asians would much rather focus on their own demographic that divert attention to poor minorities.  That doesn't mean we should stop pushing them to do so.  We should not let the gender escape hatch return us back to a place where the dominant racial group only focuses on advancing their own.

    •  It is the same regime that is blocking (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bruh1, koNko, FarWestGirl

      women from science and technology that is blocking black and Latino men AND women. It is the same basic attitude of exclusion that is at work. The kinds of programs that would help to put more diverse young people in the pipeline would work regardless of gender.

      The problem in not gender OR race. It is both.

      •  I disagree that White & Asian women are 'blocked' (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        elfling

        What we're talking about in practical terms is encouraging people to choose a certain career path. The systemic barriers for women coming from the same backgrounds as men are no where to be found while barriers for minorities are so enourmous their  repersentation in either sex is reduced to the low single digits. If you wanted to go deeper you can overlay that with education outcomes, mass incarceration, poverty statistics, failing schools,  and communiities with far fewer oppurtinities. We are not comparing similar things when addressing race versus gender.

         In the case of White and Asian women without intervention they will likely become more educated and seek out a relatively high paying career compared to black or hispanic men/women or end up form families where their net income will exceed those of black/hispanic familes.  These are class realities that come about because poor minorities are starting out in less educated lower income familes with 2.5 tmes the poverty rates seen in whites & Asians.  

        The kinds of programs that would help to put more diverse young people in the pipeline would work regardless of gender.
        No they would NOT!  The reason for this is more affluent Whites and Asians would be far more likely to create these programs and use them to target their own populations. Again you neglect race so what kind of 'diversity' are we talking about when we're only trading White & Asian men for their female counterparts? The money stays in the family and the people share a common background.  Real diversity would go outside the ethnic/class groups already dominanting Tech and STEM. The most woefully under repersetnted gets little focus when we default to the gender diversity as a central focus just like you did in responding to comment from someone insisting we focus on far less represented ethnic diversity.  Priotizing gender over race has become the trendy thing to do and it appears on the surface to be  self serving redirection of social justice resources to a already priveleged demographic.  

        If we create intiatives that overwhelmingly favor Whites & Asians women then we would be 'blocking' poor minorities who don't live in those commmunities. Why not target the bulk of resources at the poorer least reperesented ethnic groups where both the males and females are conspicuously absent?  

        "The problem in not gender OR race. It is both."
        The problem is we have a generation that has found a way to avoid dealing with poor minority issues by pivoting to gender. We are not all in this together. The sexes share a families while races do not (far less so).  The poor minorities are not living amongst the more prosperous groups dominating tech so these initiaitves are unlikely to reach them.  We see Google throw 50 million into getting women in tech and that money will likely go to White & Asian communities who have the know how and connections to get that money and direct back to already privleged people.  
        •  Polemics make entertaining debate. (0+ / 0-)

          They don't do much to solve problems in the real world. The oppression olympics is a waste of time.

          •  Black & Hispanic issues are oppression Olympics? (0+ / 0-)

            This response to the issues of disadvantaged minorities is starting to look like oppression. You don't take a group of people who are far worse off and dismiss them when they say their being marginalized by a powerful majority by calling out 'Oppression Olympics' Such a tactic is obviously self serving for those in the powerful majority.  

        •  I tipped this because you're bringing up (0+ / 0-)

          an important point.

          I'm in a position to help latino youths get into coding. Most of these kids come from large extended families of farmworkers. What advice or suggestions do you have for me that could make a positive difference and encourage them to develop an interest in coding?

          Fry, don't be a hero! It's not covered by our health plan!

          by elfling on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 09:52:10 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  They focus on both (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      VClib, Richard Lyon, FarWestGirl

      And thanks for your comment!

      Actually, I'm pimping this diary to some people previously involved in another diary on the subject.

      Since the discussion got a bit heated there, maybe this is a second chance to discuss the topic with cooler heads, we need both passion and reason.

  •  This is an article a friend of mine sent today (6+ / 0-)

    that is very much on topic:

    The next thing Silicon Valley needs to disrupt big time: its own culture

    Here’s an excerpt from the blog of a San Francisco startup:
    I asked her how she was doing in the interview process and she said, “I’m actually still trying to get an interview.”

    “That’s weird.” I told her. “I thought you had already met with them a few times.”

    “Well, I grabbed coffee with the founder, and I had dinner with the team last night, and then we went to a bar together.”

    I chuckled. She was clearly confused with the whole matter. I told her, “Look, you just made it to the third round”.

    Clearly, the confusion is her fault, right? Let’s review the bidding. A capable professional expressed interest in working for a company. Instead of talking with her about that in plain English, she was held at arm’s length for days while The Culture examined her for defects: coffee dates in the afternoon, conversations over dinner. When she gets the invisible nod, her reward is a “spontaneous” invitation to a night of drinking with the team. You have to wonder why intelligent people would devise an interview process so strange and oblique that the candidate doesn’t even know it’s happening.

    On the surface there’s nothing wrong with getting to know a job candidate in a relaxed setting. But think about who might flunk this kind of pre-interview acculturation. Say, people who don’t drink. Or people with long commutes, or who don’t have the luxury of time to stay out late with a bunch of twenty-somethings on a whim. Or, perhaps, people who don’t like the passive-aggressive contempt shown to those who don’t get The Culture.

    And perhaps the best line of all:
    The problem with gathering a bunch of logically-oriented young males together and encouraging them to construct a Culture gauntlet has nothing to do with their logic, youth, or maleness. The problem is that all cliques are self-reinforcing. There is no way to re-calibrate once the insiders have convinced themselves of their greatness.
    And so if you don't fit this - you're black, you're too old, you have children, you're female... you might not fit. There's a lot of talent out there that can't figure out where it fits.

    The dirty secret is a lot of STEM-trained people leave STEM fields. In science, we see the infinite postdoc and the near impossibility of getting NSF or NIH type grants if you're a young researcher. Most university research departments are training more Ph.D. students than academia can absorb... take a look at how many Astronomy Ph.D.s are awarded compared to how many people are hiring newly minted astronomers for astronomy-related work. (A lot turn into programmers.)

    I wonder how many fifty-something space shuttle engineers ended up struggling to find a new job? I suspect quite a few. Wannabe-STEM employers don't always realize how fungible credentials are and that being able to retrain oneself is the skill you want to buy much more than a specific set of skills today. The field can be very boom-and-bust for the workers, and even a slight skill mismatch (for example, having experience in the wrong computer language) can change your job prospects dramatically.

    This is also a thoughtful article on the field as a whole:
    http://spectrum.ieee.org/...

    Another surprise was the apparent mismatch between earning a STEM degree and having a STEM job. Of the 7.6 million STEM workers counted by the Commerce Department, only 3.3 million possess STEM degrees. Viewed another way, about 15 million U.S. residents hold at least a bachelor’s degree in a STEM discipline, but three-fourths of them—11.4 million—work outside of STEM.

    The departure of STEM graduates to other fields starts early. In 2008, the NSF surveyed STEM graduates who’d earned bachelor’s and master’s degrees in 2006 and 2007. It found that 2 out of 10 were already working in non-STEM fields. And 10 years after receiving a STEM degree, 58 percent of STEM graduates had left the field, according to a 2011 study from Georgetown University.

    Fry, don't be a hero! It's not covered by our health plan!

    by elfling on Sun Aug 10, 2014 at 10:20:17 PM PDT

    •  Working at startups is not the right job (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      koNko, nextstep

      for most people. You have to be a star, and most people aren't stars. The environment is very stressful, you are on very tight deadlines, and the hours are long and unpredictable. The companies are often funded on a quarterly basis, and rarely for more than s year at a time, so there is no job security. The upside is that the projects are cutting edge, the pay is good, and in Silicon Valley every employee is a shareholder. Under conditions of success even junior level employees can have a windfall on the sale of the company or an IPO.

      "let's talk about that" uid 92953

      by VClib on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 05:51:27 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Is it really that good? U owe me screen wipe. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Richard Lyon

        Pretty fair number of people working in start-ups get screwed out of shares, particularly women, and now some are finally getting smart and suing the shit out of principal partners.

        Try Valleywag or Secret for the tawdry details.

        Even Sir Elon has a class-action suit on his hands now.

        Honestly, what you are talking about are the 1st tier start-up that get past the 2nd round, not the 1st round failures, which a legion.

        Good job for kids without kids!!!

      •  Or your employees (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Richard Lyon, koNko

        may get burnt to a crisp working 80 hour weeks and then have to go to the California Department of Industrial Relations to file a claim for their last paycheck.

        Not everyone is a winner.

        Fry, don't be a hero! It's not covered by our health plan!

        by elfling on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 09:14:31 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  When the dotcom crash hit (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          koNko, elfling

          there were situations of people who had gotten shares with an IPO that were worth a lot of money at the issue price. By the next Spring when tax time rolled around the shares were worthless. They owed taxes based on the value at time of receipt. They were usually prohibited from selling the shares for a lockout period. Thus they wound up with nothing but a huge tax bill. It is basically a floating crap game.

          •  My little sister was one (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            elfling, Richard Lyon

            Pretty miserable experience for her, but it did prompt her to quit doing what she hated and start her own small business from zero, where she has been moderately successful.

          •  One should not exercise options until one is able (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            VClib

            to put money aside for the tax bill, if one does not sell shares at the same time options are exercised, at least enough to cover the tax bill from the option exercise.

            The problem in this case was people speculating in a single volatile stock with money that should have been set aside for taxes.

            The most important way to protect the environment is not to have more than one child.

            by nextstep on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 10:58:37 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Startups funfed by sophisticated investors (0+ / 0-)

          either angels or VCs are very careful to follow all wage and hour laws. Very few of the employees are hourly. Those that are earn overtime.

          "let's talk about that" uid 92953

          by VClib on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 11:11:34 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  I'd like to recruit some people to this diary (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    VClib, Richard Lyon, FarWestGirl, elfling

    A recent diary on the subject focusing more on the ethnic divide than gender divide got a slightly larger if more polarized audience, but it was a good exercise and this should be one too.

    So if you don't mind, I will pimp this diary to some of those people and come back later today (at work on break) when I have more time to comment.

    But basically, I see a better opening for women in general than under-represented ethnic minorities since they (at least white women) can cut across some of the barriers minority men and women have a really hard time crossing for a multitude of reasons.

    Other countries/regions, in particular, Scandinavian and some Asian (China, Singapore, and a lesser extent Taiwan) countries have a much better gender balance in both STEM fields and related business functions, and it is partly due to greater equality in the approach to education (no one in Finland or China says girls can't do math, they are expected to do it) but also acceptance of women in the workplace, particularly at the Top where all-important examples are set.

    •  One of the issues that intrigues me (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      koNko

      is how Asian men have been able to do so well in Silicon Valley. I've been around the SF Bay Area long enough to know that there is not some magical cone of protection from racism that surrounds Asians. I think that the Asian umbrella probably has to be unpacked to look more closely at who these Asian men are. My experience has been that they seem to be mostly from India. I worked for an Indian tech entrepreneur at one point.

      •  So I should write a "True Confessions" (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Richard Lyon

        A tell-all expose of long working hours and instant noodles.

        That might be fun.

        On the other hand, now that few Gay techies  are out of the closet you hear grumblings about a "Gay Tech Mafia", which is really ludicrous. Tim Cook and __ ????

        You might be pressed into service, too, buddy.

      •  Critical mass is an issue (0+ / 0-)

        it's also true that we are creaming some of the best and brightest and most ambitious Asians out of their countries and into ours.

        I think they have also been victims of racism and also of heightism; they've just had networks overseas to tap into for money and resources when that happened and have been able to succeed despite that racism.

        Latino and black kids don't have those reservoirs of rich people back home who can mortgage a house or hand over a savings account to help with a promising idea. If anything, they're more likely to be sending money back home to the relatives.

        Fry, don't be a hero! It's not covered by our health plan!

        by elfling on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 09:57:06 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  From what I saw in corporate IT depts. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          elfling

          recruiting Indian contractors on H1B visas was about saving money (probably) and also about getting captive employees that were easy to control. India has organized a system to make tech workers a major export. There are of course also a lot of people who are able to do good paying work online while remaining in India. For all the crap they took of the British raj, the exposure to the English language has proven to be something of a commercial advantage.

          •  For sure (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            rduran

            H1B end up being like indentured servants, since they have to leave the country within two weeks if their employment is severed.

            But there are also the kids of those workers, and people who come here with money to set themselves up.

            Fry, don't be a hero! It's not covered by our health plan!

            by elfling on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 10:51:48 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  Just my observations here (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      koNko, elfling, rduran

      I worked in IT for some years. It was, and I assume still is, fairly male dominated.

      I did notice some cultural issues with some of the H1B visa holders.

      The women from those countries (mostly India) seemed very deferential to the men, to the point of not being willing to speak their mind much of the time.

      A few of the men also seemed to have trouble working for a female supervisor, although you don't need to go to another country to find that particular attitude.

      If the pilot's good, see, I mean if he's reeeally sharp, he can barrel that baby in so low... oh you oughta see it sometime. It's a sight. A big plane like a '52... varrrooom! Its jet exhaust... frying chickens in the barnyard!

      by Major Kong on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 09:10:37 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  H1B is such a mess (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Richard Lyon, rduran

        The fact that the visa generally means you can't quit your job without having to also leave the country is incredibly caustic for both the H1B and citizen workers. A female H1B is especially vulnerable. Just give 'em a green card if they meet the requirements to be here and give them the independence to change jobs like everyone else.

        Fry, don't be a hero! It's not covered by our health plan!

        by elfling on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 10:01:23 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Can't tell these stories (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      rduran

      without the guy being able to see himself in it and know who told.

      Fry, don't be a hero! It's not covered by our health plan!

      by elfling on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 03:25:36 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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