Skip to main content

I just woke up and sat down with my coffee to see a DK diary about a coup in Iraq.

So I take a quick look at several regional media and - nothing.

So where's the coup?

The Iraqi PM and the Iraqi President are in disagreement, but it's not a coup.

And one more thing. The Iraqi President actually was calling bullshit on those who constantly complain about Maliki. But in doing so it seems he has violated the constitution - if I remember correctly. I'll check that later.

He said weeks ago 'You don't like Maliki you say. So get together, form a coalition, and present another candidate for PM.'

They haven't and most probably won't/can't.

Why?

Because there may be a general dislike of Maliki, but there is much more dislike and distrust of the other candidates who have been discussed.

But I'll keep checking the media, etc.

And by the way Maliki is still the PM because the other parties are so fractured that they can't even put another candidate forward.

Maliki hasn't siezed anything he is just still the PM.

And remember it took nine months of negotiations four years ago to set up the Iraqi cabinet.

- * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * -

Just to clarify: The Iraqi President has to call on the leader of the largest bloc in the Iraqi Parliament to form a government.

As of Sunday - the deadline - Maliki was the head of the largest bloc and he asserts that he should have appointed by the president.

For weeks the President of Iraq has been asking the parties in parliament to form a coalition (bloc) and put forward a candidiate. As of Sunday night they hadn't.

Until Maliki is replaced by the parliament - if they can agree on a replacement - he will continue to be the Prime Minister.

- * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * -

UPDATE 7:25pm (in Turkey): This afternoon Iraq's president asked Haider al-Abadi, who reportedly was nominated by a coalition of Shia parties, to form a government.

If he can and then gets a vote of confidence from the Iraqi parliament he will become the new Prime Minister.

Abadi has 30 days to form a new government.

Prime Minister Maliki remains the caretaker prime minister and will until a new PM is approved by parliament.

Maliki may challenge the president's decision on the grounds that it was done unconstitutionally.

If it can be proven that the coalition of Shia parties, even if it is a new coalition, is the largest bloc the president's actions may stand.

On the other hand if the coalition of Shia parties isn't the largest bloc and/or quickly breaks up the president's action may be declared unconstitutional.

EMAIL TO A FRIEND X
Your Email has been sent.
You must add at least one tag to this diary before publishing it.

Add keywords that describe this diary. Separate multiple keywords with commas.
Tagging tips - Search For Tags - Browse For Tags

?

More Tagging tips:

A tag is a way to search for this diary. If someone is searching for "Barack Obama," is this a diary they'd be trying to find?

Use a person's full name, without any title. Senator Obama may become President Obama, and Michelle Obama might run for office.

If your diary covers an election or elected official, use election tags, which are generally the state abbreviation followed by the office. CA-01 is the first district House seat. CA-Sen covers both senate races. NY-GOV covers the New York governor's race.

Tags do not compound: that is, "education reform" is a completely different tag from "education". A tag like "reform" alone is probably not meaningful.

Consider if one or more of these tags fits your diary: Civil Rights, Community, Congress, Culture, Economy, Education, Elections, Energy, Environment, Health Care, International, Labor, Law, Media, Meta, National Security, Science, Transportation, or White House. If your diary is specific to a state, consider adding the state (California, Texas, etc). Keep in mind, though, that there are many wonderful and important diaries that don't fit in any of these tags. Don't worry if yours doesn't.

You can add a private note to this diary when hotlisting it:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from your hotlist?
Are you sure you want to remove your recommendation? You can only recommend a diary once, so you will not be able to re-recommend it afterwards.
Rescue this diary, and add a note:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from Rescue?
Choose where to republish this diary. The diary will be added to the queue for that group. Publish it from the queue to make it appear.

You must be a member of a group to use this feature.

Add a quick update to your diary without changing the diary itself:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary?
(The diary will be removed from the site and returned to your drafts for further editing.)
(The diary will be removed.)
Are you sure you want to save these changes to the published diary?

Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (146+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Karl Rover, JeffW, itzadryheat, Glen The Plumber, kerflooey, rduran, Azazello, cai, AaronInSanDiego, nomandates, Lujane, GAS, Paul Ferguson, Bob Love, Garrett, here4tehbeer, fcvaguy, edwardssl, where4art, jadt65, Calvino Partigiani, BarackStarObama, jasan, Clytemnestra, PinHole, duhban, edrie, poco, AlexDrew, basquebob, 417els, Ginny in CO, eeff, Chaddiwicker, Lost and Found, mookins, WakeUpNeo, chuckvw, DaveinBremerton, cpresley, gizmo59, Hayate Yagami, dskoe, Jeff Y, Susan from 29, capelza, liberte, LaFeminista, congenitalefty, golem, wu ming, Richard Villiers, nickrud, Sapere aude, oldliberal, jan4insight, anodnhajo, blue jersey mom, Mopshell, owlbear1, jnhobbs, aitchdee, Caittus, Onomastic, Its the Supreme Court Stupid, radarlady, Denise Oliver Velez, moira977, rapala, DSC on the Plateau, FarWestGirl, Lady Libertine, skohayes, k9disc, IndieGuy, claude, Smoh, riverlover, AllTheWayWithLBJ85, FloridaSNMOM, RocketJSquirrel, terrypinder, Habitat Vic, PeteZerria, mrsgoo, Ducktape, MikeBoyScout, Pilsner, Cat Whisperer, terabytes, bootleg, Cedwyn, Superpole, Dexter, wader, Notreadytobenice, MKSinSA, Sylv, BobTheHappyDinosaur, native, CwV, zerelda, tle, NYC Sophia, AoT, jrooth, GeorgeXVIII, Cassandra Waites, coquiero, Tchrldy, Haningchadus14, goodpractice, cotterperson, mr crabby, ER Doc, blueoasis, psnyder, daeros, TheDuckManCometh, cocinero, Ditch Mitch KY, denig, Gary Norton, leeleedee, kalmoth, realalaskan, blueyedace2, FG, Angie in WA State, AllanTBG, citisven, Quicklund, Yasuragi, yoduuuh do or do not, Temmoku, a2nite, sc kitty, grover, PrahaPartizan, ColoTim, pvasileff, Lily O Lady, kimoconnor, Mark Lippman, amyzex, petral

    The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
    Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

    by InAntalya on Sun Aug 10, 2014 at 08:25:59 PM PDT

  •  Vox.com has a more complete perspective (20+ / 0-)

    It is disturbing to see that on the top of the rec list. Maybe put a question mark after it to make it more realistic.

    http://www.vox.com/...

    •  vox.com's wiki includes Zack Beauchamp... (0+ / 0-)
      Vox received criticism during the 2014 Israel-Gaza crisis for inaccurate reporting, due to an error by Vox writer Zack Beauchamp stating that there existed a bridge between the West Bank and Gaza.

      ------T'is a take-off from a Dixie Chicks song. I'm a fan------

      by Notreadytobenice on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 06:03:33 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  why disturbing? wapo says possible coup (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SouthernLiberalinMD, Flint
      Special forces teams and army tanks surrounded the Green Zone housing Iraq’s government as Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki fiercely clung to power Sunday, taking the stability of the country to the brink at a moment when it is already facing a lethal challenge from radical Islamist fighters.

      In actions that had all the markings of a political coup, Maliki gave a defiant late-night speech in Baghdad saying he would lodge a legal case against the country’s president, who has resisted naming him as the candidate for another term as prime minister.

      http://www.washingtonpost.com/...

      sounds to me like maliki running the coup though, against his own allies who want to replace him with someone else....

  •  yeah, that (9+ / 0-)

    it's not a coup if you're already in office.

    This Rover crossed over.. Willie Nelson, written by Dorothy Fields

    by Karl Rover on Sun Aug 10, 2014 at 08:36:29 PM PDT

  •  Thank you, InAntalya! (28+ / 0-)

    After reading that prior diary, I zipped over to the BBC, and nix on the coup talk there. Yes, the PM was moving security troops, but nothing else. More of a police/security tightening than a hostile takeover.

    Given what we know about the IS and its love of suicide bombings, I would have thought this would have been done weeks ago.

    And yeah, I know tarantulas don't really act like that at all, so no snarking, this is the internet damnit!

    by itzadryheat on Sun Aug 10, 2014 at 08:39:35 PM PDT

    •  Oh, and my bad. (15+ / 0-)

      Thank you for the regional view that you bring us. It's very nice to have someone local (more or less) bringing us the view from nearby.

      And yeah, I know tarantulas don't really act like that at all, so no snarking, this is the internet damnit!

      by itzadryheat on Sun Aug 10, 2014 at 08:41:07 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Maliki said the word, as I link below... (4+ / 0-)

      but either it's a mistranslation or its overblown.

      © cai Visit 350.org to join the fight against global warming.

      by cai on Sun Aug 10, 2014 at 08:45:54 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  wapo disagrees with you (3+ / 0-)
      Special forces teams and army tanks surrounded the Green Zone housing Iraq’s government as Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki fiercely clung to power Sunday, taking the stability of the country to the brink at a moment when it is already facing a lethal challenge from radical Islamist fighters.

      In actions that had all the markings of a political coup, Maliki gave a defiant late-night speech in Baghdad saying he would lodge a legal case against the country’s president, who has resisted naming him as the candidate for another term as prime minister.

      http://www.washingtonpost.com/...

      maliki could be taking power unilaterally. AKA a coup.

      •  WaPo is stupid (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        PrahaPartizan

        When the sitting Prime Minister orders troops to do something it isn't a coup. They can't seem to tell anyone who he is stopping from replacing him, which is what a coup would be.

        And seriously, when lodging a legal case is the "markings of a political coup" then you've got a pretty peaceful fucking coup.

        No War but Class War

        by AoT on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 08:13:38 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  well.... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          gjohnsit
          Iraq's new president on Monday snubbed the powerful incumbent Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki and nominated the deputy parliament speaker to form the new government, raising fears of more infighting in the government as country faces the threat of Sunni militants in the north.
          http://bigstory.ap.org/...

          seems some folks are just trying to be contrarians for the sake of it today....

          and those troops deployed around baghdad after the above sure points to a "peaceful fucking coup"

          •  Sure, there could be a coup (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            PrahaPartizan, HarryTurtledove

            But could be and is are two very different things.

            The idea that this is Maliki perpetrating a coup is flatly false. There has been no new Prime Minister voted in and until there is there's no way he can perpetrate a coup given that he's the elected Prime Minister.

            Next we're going to hear how Obama is planning a coup because he has members of the military at the white house and is fighting Republican attempts at impeachment.

            Calling this a coup is absurd there's no reason for it, a nomination is not an election.

            How many people were nominated for the prime ministers seat the first time around?

            No War but Class War

            by AoT on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 09:33:29 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Some here are even already calling him (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              AoT, HarryTurtledove

              "the new Prime Minister".

              hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

              What a bunch of fuckwits who have no idea about how parliamentary systems work.

              The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
              Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

              by InAntalya on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 09:40:30 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Reading the headlines in US papers (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                InAntalya

                certainly gives that impression. It's not for a few paragraphs that they mention this guy is just nominated to stand election, which they call "appointed".

                Do you know how many people were nominated the first time around? I know there were at least three serious nominations, probably more that never made the English press.

                No War but Class War

                by AoT on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 10:00:44 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  Maliki nominated? (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                gjohnsit

                by his fellow shiites? nope.

                why are you so invested in whether this is a coup or not?

                why did maliki need to deploy troops around baghdad? or is that how parliamentary systems work?

                if maliki doesn't usurp power, the new guy WILL be PM.

                •  crickets (0+ / 0-)

                  again:

                  why did maliki need to deploy troops around baghdad in response to the other guy getting nominated?

                  answer:

                  because he's worried he will be voted out.

                  is that how parliamentary systems are supposed to work?

                  answer:

                  no, he is deploying troops and sectarian thugs to threaten civil war if he doesn't get his way. or to usurp power if the vote doesn't go his way.

                  this isn't rocket science.

                  •  And you waited a whole ten minutes (0+ / 0-)

                    I can't believe I didn't respond to a bunch of complex questions in a very brief period of time. Try not being an asshole.

                    No War but Class War

                    by AoT on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 11:13:30 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  i've been waiting for InAntalya for hours (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      gjohnsit

                      to explain how deploying troops and how Maliki saying he won't accept vote results is "normal" parliamentary stuff.... while governments and other sects, particularly and most importantly the Kurds, are saying they are extremely concerned about what looks like a coup.

                      I wasn't talking to you AoT.

            •  thai coup (0+ / 0-)

              before it was determined whether a coup happened or not, it was over.

              right now, there's a chance of stopping maliki, particularly with kurdish forces in iraqi military getting accurate information on maliki's schemes here.

              deploying troops for a vote on PM replacing him?

              and you and the other here are so smug?

              come on. what's your angle besides be a contrarian for the sake of it.

              •  And if it isn't a coup then he'll be kicked out (0+ / 0-)

                So what you're advocating is coup to stop a coup that hasn't happened.

                deploying troops for a vote on PM replacing him?
                Yes, a show of power to convince people he's in charge so they won't vote against him.
                and you and the other here are so smug?
                Smug? Because I'm pointing out that this isn't actually a coup? There's no evidence it's a coup and the people I mostly see calling it a coup are in the US, not in Iraq. The WaPo is calling filing a lawsuit the makings of a coup.
                come on. what's your angle besides be a contrarian for the sake of it.
                Not being a contrarian, correcting incorrect information. Are you new to the internet or do you just expect people to not say something when they disagree? Or do you think I secretly work for Maliki?

                No War but Class War

                by AoT on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 11:07:26 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

  •  I don't know enough to know (13+ / 0-)

    BBC News does mention that Maliki said the word coup...

    Mr Maliki said Mr Masum had missed a deadline for asking the biggest political bloc to nominate a prime minister.

    "This attitude represents a coup on the constitution and the political process in a country that is governed by a democratic and federal system," Mr Maliki said.

    "The deliberate violation of the constitution by the president will have grave consequences on the unity, the sovereignty, and the independence of Iraq and the entry of the political process into a dark tunnel."

    That may or may not be a constitutional violation, what do I know... but it doesn't sound quite coup-like to me.

    © cai Visit 350.org to join the fight against global warming.

    by cai on Sun Aug 10, 2014 at 08:42:42 PM PDT

    •  Yes, but (17+ / 0-)
      This attitude represents a coup on the constitution
      notice the words 'attitude' and 'represents'.

      The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
      Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

      by InAntalya on Sun Aug 10, 2014 at 08:45:44 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I think the other diary says Maliki is the one (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      FarWestGirl

      doing a coup, while your citation says Maliki is saying the president of Iraq is the one with a "coup"-ish attitude.

      Maliki using the word "coup" in this context doesn't prove that the other diary is correct that Maliki is implementing a coup himself.

      •  the other diary is incoherent (4+ / 0-)

        Just look how it starts:

        PM Maliki seems to think so.
        Does Maliki seem to think that he himself is perpetrating a coup? That's what the rest of the diary goes on to imply. In this diary here, gjohnsit deftly suggests we look to Napolean as a model for Maliki's actions. It seems like his grasp on this stuff is loose at best and he is more interested in the scoop than the truth.
        •  not incoherent (0+ / 0-)

          seems to me that if Maliki unilaterally takes power, perhaps next with "emergency powers" he claims are in the constitution, that is a coup against "existing government by a small group"....

          Full Definition of COUP D'ÉTAT
          :  a sudden decisive exercise of force in politics; especially :  the violent overthrow or alteration of an existing government by a small group
          •  right, key word being IF (0+ / 0-)

            And yes, it's incoherent because it uses Maliki's accusation about the president (where the word "coup" first appeared, via translation) as support for the idea that he himself is perpetrating a coup. Equivalent logic would be, if I accuse Israel of committing war crimes, my making that accusation supports the idea that I myself am committing war crimes. It's silly.

            •  uh what? (0+ / 0-)

              this isn't rocket science.

              iraqi prez names new PM. Maliki responds by calling in military.

              http://www.reuters.com/...

              it's a political coup followed by a counter coup (maliki calling in the military).

              that you claim this ISN'T a coup is what's silly.

              •  haha (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                PrahaPartizan

                actually, it's a little more complicated than that.

                What you refer to as a "political coup" is just standard parliamentary procedure. By naming a new PM, the pres has fulfilled his legal obligation (though tardily). Not a coup.

                From your article:

                However, Maliki's son-in-law, a close political ally, told Reuters that he would seek to overturn the nomination in the courts.
                Legally, Maliki will be there for another month. Who knows, this may develop into a coup. It hasn't yet. It seems likely, with Maliki making legal accusation against the pres, that there may be a constitutional crisis of some kind. Which is not a coup.

                Thanks for the condescension, though!

                •  ah (0+ / 0-)

                  Maliki calling in the military is just "standard parliamentary procedure" right Harry?

                  •  no, but what you are referring to as (0+ / 0-)

                    the president's "political coup" sure is. In that regard, you seem to have bought Maliki's line hook, like, and sinker. Why in your opinion is he so trustworthy on these matters?

                    •  or this "political coup" (0+ / 0-)

                      which is much as you said a standard parliamentary procedure has gotten a military response from Maliki... which makes it a coup that is underway...

                      Iraq's new president on Monday snubbed the powerful incumbent Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki and nominated the deputy parliament speaker to form the new government, raising fears of more infighting in the government as country faces the threat of Sunni militants in the north.
                      http://bigstory.ap.org/...

                      it sounds as if we are parsing words when it looks and smells like a coup attempt by maliki.

                      calling him out for doing this, by calling his actions a coup (or counter coup), whether EXACTLY correct for your exact needs for fulfilling the definition of a coup, could and should undermine him completely with his own political allies.

                      it is either an act of desperation or a usurpation of power. either looks and smells like a coup and/or counter coup.
                       

                      •  you wrote a diary (0+ / 0-)

                        about how there have been two coups, a coup and a counter coup. Are you admitting now that you were mistaken? Do you still consider the president's actions a political coup, even though he was fulfilling his legal responsibility by choosing a new PM?

                        I just don't think you're a very good judge of what is and what isn't a coup, going by that claim of yours about the president.

                        •  Ummm (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          PrahaPartizan
                          choosing a new PM?
                          The president nominated this man.

                          Now the parliament approves or doesn't. In the meantime Maliki remains PM.

                          The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
                          Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

                          by InAntalya on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 09:43:30 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                        •  whatever (0+ / 0-)

                          it looks like a frickin coup.

                          we will know within 24-48 hours whether Maliki accepts the new PM or not.  Perhaps media speculation on a coup will force Maliki to realize he can't stay on... especially with Kurdish  Iraqi military likely to resist a formal coup.

                          Considering Maliki's fellow Shiites apparently committed the "political coup" by nominating someone else, perhaps Maliki's troop deployment indicate a counter coup attempt. or threat.

                          so maybe it's a coup threat. that better?

                          Iraq's president nominated a new prime minister on Monday, further complicating the country's intense power struggle amid a dire humanitarian crisis and a militant threat strong enough to draw U.S. air power back to the fray.

                          In a ceremony attended by key members of the main Shiite bloc in Parliament, President Fuad Masum nominated Haider al-Abadi to succeed a defiant Nuri al-Maliki, who had earlier vowed to hang on to power.

                          Why did Maliki need to deploy military for these "standard parliamentary procedures" after vowing to hang onto power?

                          Smells like a coup to me. or threat of coup.

                          look at how similar this timeline to the thai coup.

                          11:40:

                          Dramatic developments in Thailand as the army chief gives a televised address to say the military has seized power, intending to restore order and enact political reforms.
                          11:41:

                          Moments before, soldiers sealed off the venue in Bangkok where political factions had been holding talks for a second day and took away the leaders.
                          11:43:

                          Thailand has suffered months of political turmoil, which earlier this month culminated in the court-ordered removal of Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra for alleged abuse of power.
                          11:47: Jonah Fisher BBC News, Bangkok says Thailand is a polarised society in many ways and the possibility of violence and unrest will be a source of concern for many Thais.
                          11:47:

                          General Prayuth Chan-ocha said in his televised statement that the security forces needed to seize power "in order for the country to return to normal quickly".
                          11:48:

                          "All Thais must remain calm and government officials must work as normal," Gen Prayuth also said.
                          11:50:

                          The army's move apparently follows the failure by Thailand's rival political factions to reach a compromise during two days of military-mediated talks in Bangkok. But Thailand's military has a long history of forcibly shaping Thai politics through power seizures.

                          Replace Gen Prayuth with PM Maliki and what do you have? A coup. Or coup attempt.
                          •  you're still not getting it (0+ / 0-)
                            Considering Maliki's fellow Shiites apparently committed the "political coup" by nominating someone else
                            Nominating a new candidate for PM is not a coup. It's the law. It is not a political coup or any other type of coup.

                            Can't admit you were wrong?

                          •  and maliki's response (0+ / 0-)

                            by deploying troops in response to the other guy getting nominated likely IS a coup.

                            or do you want to admit that troop deployments after such a decision aren't in fact "standard parliamentary procedures"??!!

                            we'll see in next 24-48 hours whether he accepts the new PM, if that vote is even allowed to happen by Maliki.

                            if Maliki does either of the above, will you and the other band of coup deniers admit you were wrong and were being contrarians for the sake of it?

                          •  no, deploying troops is not a coup (0+ / 0-)

                            It would be if they used force to preserve Maliki's position. They haven't.

                            Clearly, you don't know what a coup is. It seems that to you any power transfer is a coup.

                            I'll also just point out that there can be power struggles (which may involve the military) which fall short of a coup because force is not used. Often, these are referred to as "constitutional crises."

                            No, I won't admit I was wrong, because I won't have been. As of right now, from the best reporting (not gjohsnit's warped version), there hasn't been a coup and I'm correct. If there is a coup I will gladly recognize it as such.

                            And I'm not being a contrarian "for the sake of it," (thanks for the continuing condescension), but because I think gjohnsit's diary was shitty and misleading about an important subject. I know it's hard to imagine that someone who disagrees with you might not just be being an asshole for the fun of it, but you might try imagining it some time. Remember, this conversation began when you explained to me that "it's not rocket science" to know that two coups have already have occurred. It seems you now admit you were mistaken about one of them (the president's selection of a new candidate for PM). For some people, being wrong about something like that would make them pause and rethink - maybe they shouldn't be so certain when they were so obviously wrong earlier about this subject. Not you, though! You just keep confidently trundling along.

  •  well,something's up ifU.S.personnel/evacuating.. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    InAntalya, lunachickie

    for the love of humanity please protect the light in all that may glow and try not to make anyone else's path more cruel than it would be on its own.

    by renzo capetti on Sun Aug 10, 2014 at 08:55:11 PM PDT

  •  Factless diaries make it to the top of rec list (11+ / 0-)

    all the time.

    Nothing new.

    KOS: "Mocking partisans focusing on elections? Even less reason to be on Daily Kos."

    by fcvaguy on Sun Aug 10, 2014 at 08:57:36 PM PDT

  •  LeMonde.fr has a link on its front page that says (21+ / 0-)

    Irak: le coup de force de Maliki

    I translate "coup de force" as "power struggle."
    When I click the link it goes to a story with a headline I translate as : Maliki hangs on (clings) to his post as Prime Minister.

    The story talks about him filing a complaint against the President Fouad Massoum who he says is trying to prevent him from serving a third term as Prime Minister. It also says there are security forces, police, and some army personnel seen around the Green Zone an unusual situation that resembles a state of emergency.

  •  as always with developing events (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    InAntalya, FarWestGirl

    I'll keep an open mind but like you I've seen no reports yet. Really seems like certain people jumped the gun again.

    Der Weg ist das Ziel

    by duhban on Sun Aug 10, 2014 at 09:29:57 PM PDT

  •  There is two things missing in your diary (8+ / 0-)

    1) any mention of the military being deployed
    2) Maliki accusing the president of engaging in a coup

      I guess if you leave out the only two bits of information that would indicate a coup then you would be correct.

    "The oppressors most powerful weapon is the mind of the oppressed." - Stephen Biko

    by gjohnsit on Sun Aug 10, 2014 at 09:31:46 PM PDT

    •  It's not like there's a war on or anything, is it? (5+ / 0-)
      any mention of the military being deployed
      Really? - "engaging in a coup"

      The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
      Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

      by InAntalya on Sun Aug 10, 2014 at 09:43:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Not my words (7+ / 0-)

        link

         Further destabilization rocked Iraq on Sunday as Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki accused President Fouad Massoum of engaging in a “coup” by failing to choose a new prime minister by an Sunday’s deadline.
        That was just one of the sites that used that term.

         Sure, I guess you could say that most of the news outlets are getting it wrong, but then we have a crisis of credibility. Why am I supposed to believe you over all these other sources?
          That an honest question.

        "The oppressors most powerful weapon is the mind of the oppressed." - Stephen Biko

        by gjohnsit on Sun Aug 10, 2014 at 09:58:12 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  my question to you is (6+ / 0-)

          the word coup was used by Maliki in relation to actions/statements by the President. For what reason are you pinning Maliki with being the one staging a coup? And who is he planning on overthrowing? Himself?

          •  Chosing a historical example at random (4+ / 0-)

            Louis Napolean was President of France in 1851, but was blocked by the Constitution from running for a second term. So he staged a coup.

            Maliki is at present a caretaker in his office. The Iraqi president is in charge of chosing the next PM. It could be anyone with enough popularity.

            "The oppressors most powerful weapon is the mind of the oppressed." - Stephen Biko

            by gjohnsit on Sun Aug 10, 2014 at 10:12:36 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I answered this below (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              InAntalya, fcvaguy, HarryTurtledove

              the President doesn't get to willy-nilly name whomever he chooses. Standard parliamentary governmental operations.

            •  so you are predicting a coup in Iraq (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              fcvaguy

              based on Napoleon's actions in 1851? Your analogies are becoming more strained.

              Obviously, the fitting historical analogy is the Mecklenberg succession crisis of 1621.

              •  It was an analogy not stated as a cause. OK tha... (4+ / 0-)

                It was an analogy not stated as a cause. OK that's enough of this game show for one day. This site should be reinstated as a weird form of Capture the Flag. Or Team Fortress.

                •  the analogies of Maliki to Napoleon and Diem (0+ / 0-)

                  are plainly ridiculous. gjohnsit's diary was stupid speculation, and it's not factional infighting to point that out.

                  •  Re: (0+ / 0-)
                    gjohnsit's diary was stupid speculation, and it's not factional infighting to point that out.
                    Speaking of that.
                    “We’re all worried about a coup d'état,” said Gen. Halgurd Hikmet, the chief spokesman for the Kurdish fighters in Iraq, known as pesh merga.
                    If you aren't doing factional infighting then you should right now denounce Gen. Halgurd Hikmet as being stupid for speculating about a coup in Iraq.

                      Otherwise you are a liar. So which is it?

                    "The oppressors most powerful weapon is the mind of the oppressed." - Stephen Biko

                    by gjohnsit on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 11:09:43 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  "BREAKING: Coup in Iraq" (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      charlatan

                      is different from "I'm worried about a coup in Iraq."

                      I'm actually reading what you've written and your sources very carefully, which is why you don't like what I have to say.

                      •  You aren't reading what you write (0+ / 0-)

                        You wrote:

                        gjohnsit's diary was stupid speculation, and it's not factional infighting to point that out.
                        The news article was:
                        “We’re all worried about a coup d'état,” said Gen. Halgurd Hikmet, the chief spokesman for the Kurdish fighters in Iraq, known as pesh merga.
                        Therefore you are saying that Gen. Halgurd Hikmet is stupid and you know better than him.,

                         And you don't like someone pointing that out.

                        "The oppressors most powerful weapon is the mind of the oppressed." - Stephen Biko

                        by gjohnsit on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 10:07:28 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  no, I'm saying (0+ / 0-)
                          BREAKING: Coup in Iraq
                          to the extent it wasn't an outright lie, is stupid speculation. You were guessing, it seems, based largely on unconfirmed reports, that a coup had occurred. But you still can't admit that you even said that. If you were commenting here in good faith, you'd at least be able to admit that. BUT THE EGO WONNNNNT LET YOOOOU.
                          •  Look in the mirror (0+ / 0-)

                            Because you are projecting.
                              You are ignoring everything I say that you don't want to hear. So this is a waste of my time.

                             This is where we part ways. Unless of course you troll me, which I certainly wouldn't put it past you.

                            "The oppressors most powerful weapon is the mind of the oppressed." - Stephen Biko

                            by gjohnsit on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 10:53:12 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  mirror, mirror (0+ / 0-)

                            No one reading this thread would credibly believe you didn't say there was a coup in Iraq. You're being very, very silly, and hopefully this episode has tarnished your credibility as a reporter on this site, because you are clearly not suited for the role. Next time you come up with a BREAKING scoop, make sure it's actually happened first.

                          •  That is known as "a tell" (0+ / 0-)
                            hopefully this episode has tarnished your credibility
                            It's not surprising that this was your objective all along. It's only surprising that you would come out and admit it.

                            "The oppressors most powerful weapon is the mind of the oppressed." - Stephen Biko

                            by gjohnsit on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 11:09:37 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  with reporting like that (0+ / 0-)

                            you coming out with fewer scoops is nothing but good for the site. You wasted all of our time with a BS diary you still can't admit was wrong.

                            Initially, before I realized the full scope of your ego, I was hoping you might come around and admit you were wrong. That was my goal. To make sure everyone who had been suckered by your diary knew there wasn't actually a coup in Iraq, perhaps via an edit on your diary. Now I see, though, that you care more about being right and pissing contests than factual accuracy, and yeah, you losing whatever reporter cred you had would be great for the site. It's clear now that next time many of us see a BREAKING headline with your name under it we'll be suspicious, and being suspicious of hysterical unconfirmed reports, or of the words of politicking generals and PMs, is good for everyone. You might try it sometime, rather than taking it all at face value and then even going one step further.

                            It really blows my mind that you've gone to such lengths to deny you ever even said there was a coup. It's just pitiful, and yes, despite your insistence about projecting axes, anyone reading these comments will see that you did.

                            Now, for your next abortive flounce:

                          •  No, it wasn't (0+ / 0-)
                             I was hoping you might come around and admit you were wrong. That was my goal
                            If that was your goal then you wouldn't have started out calling names before even engaging me.
                              You already admitted what your goal was, and it perfectly explains your tactics above. You talk about ego, but then can't admit even the most obvious of logical points and your own contradictions.

                             I don't know what I did in the past to you, or more likely what you perceived I did to you, but you certainly do know how to hold a grudge.

                             Nevertheless, I've spent more than enough time on you. I'm going to move on, and I'm going to continue to post diaries on events. In fact, I should have another one up today.
                               I encourage you to join in.

                            "The oppressors most powerful weapon is the mind of the oppressed." - Stephen Biko

                            by gjohnsit on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 11:32:40 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  the tone stuff won't fly (0+ / 0-)

                            My first comment to you.

                            Snarky, sure. Name calling? Nope. No response.

                            My second comment you you.

                            Maybe you took it as snarky, but it wasn't. I thought the analogies were absurd and said so. No namecalling.

                            Your response.

                            Snarky, implying I lack logic and sense. Again, who started the nastiness?

                            My third comment to you.

                            No response. Sure, I called you a "shitty journalist," but that's a judgment of your reporting abilities, not name calling. Name calling would be something along the lines of "he's a fucking asshole."

                            You apparently had little time to respond to these criticisms, but plenty to report on the ongoing Shia coup, or whatever it was. Noting this, I began to warn others about your overly credulous reporting of unconfirmed reports.

                            But really, the idea that my tone is the reason you can't admit you were wrong is damning proof of what an awful journalist you are. A journalist doesn't let perceived slights to her ego get in the way of reporting the facts. Evidently, you do, a point which is only being reinforced with every comment you don't admit you said there was a coup.

              •  Yea, that's what I was doing (0+ / 0-)

                I was predicting a coup in Iraq based on Louis Napoleon in 1851.
                   That's obviously what I meant to say. How could anyone, especially you, have possibly interpreted my statement as anything but that.
                  It's so logical and makes perfect sense.

                "The oppressors most powerful weapon is the mind of the oppressed." - Stephen Biko

                by gjohnsit on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 11:06:14 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  That all (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              SouthernLiberalinMD, shaharazade

              we have here is the concern-nitpicking of a term with multiple meanings should tell you something, g...

              "Counting on people having nowhere else to go is the logic of a slumlord."--Wolf10

              by lunachickie on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 06:21:34 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I don't think that's what it is at all (0+ / 0-)

                whether or not a coup has occurred is a matter of fact, not nitpicking. gjohnsit has consistently misrepresented the sources he's linking to, and it's BS, as with these random historical analogies.

                •  If you read my post (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  SouthernLiberalinMD

                  you'd understand that this:

                  the concern-nitpicking of a term with multiple meanings
                  does in no way equate to this:
                  whether or not a coup has occurred

                  "Counting on people having nowhere else to go is the logic of a slumlord."--Wolf10

                  by lunachickie on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 07:10:28 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  huh? (0+ / 0-)

                    people here are debating whether or not a coup has occurred. But you said "all we have here" is concern nitpicking. What did I miss?

                    •  You missed the words "of a term", for starters n/t (0+ / 0-)

                      "Counting on people having nowhere else to go is the logic of a slumlord."--Wolf10

                      by lunachickie on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 07:17:22 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  no, I didn't (0+ / 0-)

                        How does "of a term" change the meaning of what you said? Again, the meaning of "coup" is entirely relevant to this discussion, and hardly nitpicking.

                        •  Yeah, you did (0+ / 0-)

                          I was talking about the word coup. The word coup has several different meanings.

                          Do you or do you not deny that fact?

                          "Counting on people having nowhere else to go is the logic of a slumlord."--Wolf10

                          by lunachickie on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 07:30:33 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  it does (0+ / 0-)

                            but what I'm contesting is your claim that "all we have here is nitpicking about a term," when I've already explained that no, the definition of coup is relevant and not nitpicking.

                          •  what we have here (0+ / 0-)

                            right now, in this thread, is nitpicking over a term.

                            Any number of other comment threads do the same.

                            This diary's very title contests the use of the word.

                            Yeah, it's nit-picking.  It is nit-picking the use of the word by another diarist, interspersed with official and not-so-official doctrine on what "Iraq" is as of this morning.

                            "Counting on people having nowhere else to go is the logic of a slumlord."--Wolf10

                            by lunachickie on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 07:39:23 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  doctrine? (0+ / 0-)

                            Huh? Doctrine like a set of beliefs?

                            We are just back at the start of this convo. Whether or not a coup has occurred is a matter of fact, not nitpicking over a term. The title doesn't contest the use of the word, but rather the facts. gjohnsit obviously jumped the gun with his diary which was almost entirely based in speculation. He consistently misrepresented his sources (claiming random twitter users and uncofirmed reports as "official news sources," for instance).

                            The fact is, you can write off any discussion like this. Are war crimes occurring in Gaza? Well, any discussion about it might just as well be "nitpicking" over the definition of war crimes, right?

                          •  Says you (0+ / 0-)
                            The title doesn't contest the use of the word,
                            Get glasses:
                            A Coup in Iraq?!? What?!?

                            "Counting on people having nowhere else to go is the logic of a slumlord."--Wolf10

                            by lunachickie on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 08:04:43 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  why can't you write off any discussion of fact (0+ / 0-)

                            like this? Any political or historical discussion involves terms which are often contested or ambiguous. Trying to sort out the truth is not nitpicking.

                            gjohnsit's claims are speculation and not backed up by credible reporting. There's a reason every other news story he could find used phrases like "the markings of a coup" rather than claiming outright that there was one. They're being more cautious in their reporting than he is.

                          •  Define "credible" (0+ / 0-)
                            not backed up by credible reporting
                            Which source, of all the sources in the diary you're contesting, is "not credible"? Please, feel free to provide the link here, so that the readers can decide for themselves.

                            "Counting on people having nowhere else to go is the logic of a slumlord."--Wolf10

                            by lunachickie on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 08:13:45 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  well (0+ / 0-)

                            Here is my comment about that.

                            Most of the sources are random twitter users. One of the news stories he linked cites unconfirmed reports, again, not credible. He referred to both of these as "official news sources," which they aren't. He links to but writes off the BBC's take just because it's different than his, apparently. Crucially, none of the news stories he linked says a coup has occurred, but rather use more cautious language than he chose to. Why is that? He knows better, I guess?

                          •  I didn't ask for your comment (0+ / 0-)

                            I asked for specific sources.

                            Now, let's try this again:

                            Which source, of all the sources in the diary you're contesting, is "not credible"? Please, feel free to provide the link here, so that the readers can decide for themselves.

                            "Counting on people having nowhere else to go is the logic of a slumlord."--Wolf10

                            by lunachickie on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 08:27:03 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  huh? (0+ / 0-)

                            you want me to link individually to every source he cited? Why? Random twitter users are not credible. Unconfirmed reports are not credible.

                            One more time, the credible news sources he links to do not say a coup has occurred. That is his take. Most of the sources, included two of which he cited as "official news," are anything but.

                          •  Stop evading (0+ / 0-)
                            Which source, of all the sources in the diary you're contesting, is "not credible"?

                            "Counting on people having nowhere else to go is the logic of a slumlord."--Wolf10

                            by lunachickie on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 08:41:29 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Now you're resting on (0+ / 0-)
                            the credible news sources he links to do not say a coup has occurred.
                            That's not what you said initially, and you know it.

                            "Counting on people having nowhere else to go is the logic of a slumlord."--Wolf10

                            by lunachickie on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 08:42:32 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Initially, you said this (0+ / 0-)
                            not backed up by credible reporting
                            And that was a lie. I see you've since amended it to suit your narrative. Well done, old chap!

                            "Counting on people having nowhere else to go is the logic of a slumlord."--Wolf10

                            by lunachickie on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 08:43:35 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  what are you talking about? (0+ / 0-)

                            I'm not walking anything back. The twitter users and unconfirmed reports he linked are not credible. The credible news sources he linked don't say a coup has occurred. Therefore, his claim that a coup has occurred is not backed up by credible reporting.

                          •  Double-talk never has to be walked back (0+ / 0-)

                            nice try, though! You're just going to have to do a better job of making it less obvious next time, that's all :)

                            "Counting on people having nowhere else to go is the logic of a slumlord."--Wolf10

                            by lunachickie on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 08:48:38 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  wow (0+ / 0-)

                            You are obviously not here for productive discussion. What I've said in this discussion has been entirely consistent, as anyone reading it will be able to see. You, not so much.

                          •  Suuure n/t (0+ / 0-)

                            "Counting on people having nowhere else to go is the logic of a slumlord."--Wolf10

                            by lunachickie on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 09:16:13 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  The diary that isn't *this* one, btw, (0+ / 0-)

                            where I see exactly NO credible reporting linked anywhere.

                            "Counting on people having nowhere else to go is the logic of a slumlord."--Wolf10

                            by lunachickie on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 08:14:50 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                •  In what way? (0+ / 0-)
                  gjohnsit has consistently misrepresented the sources he's linking to
                  Explain this.

                  "The oppressors most powerful weapon is the mind of the oppressed." - Stephen Biko

                  by gjohnsit on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 08:40:21 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I did, (0+ / 0-)

                    here. You quoted two "official news sources," one of which is some analyst on twitter, and the other is unconfirmed reports. That's misrepresenting your sources.

                    •  So we are debating semantics then (0+ / 0-)

                      That's a far cry from the nastiness of your comments.

                       The spokesman for the peshmerga said “We’re all worried about a coup d'état.”

                       But you've called me a fool for suggesting a coup.

                       Forgive me for not feeling the need to explain myself to you.

                      "The oppressors most powerful weapon is the mind of the oppressed." - Stephen Biko

                      by gjohnsit on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 10:40:18 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  you are still prevaricating (0+ / 0-)

                        Someone worried about a coup is evidence for your claim that one has occurred?

                        I like this "semantics" play, though. The credibility of a source is semantical? How so? Why did you refer to x twitter analyst and unconfirmed reports as "official news sources"? Do you really believe that they are?

                        Again, why can you not find a single credible news citation that a coup has occurred?

                        •  Since you want to be confrontational (0+ / 0-)

                          and want to play gotcha, let's look at what I actually said in my diary, shall we?

                          "And now there is talk of a coup."
                          "It's looking more and more like a coup."

                            Go ahead. Look for where I said "A coup has taken place/occurred". You aren't going to find it. And since you are being a total jerk, interpretations and implications aren't good enough. I want to see you actually quote me.

                           Now let's look at sources.

                          The credibility of a source is semantical? How so? Why did you refer to x twitter analyst and unconfirmed reports as "official news sources"? Do you really believe that they are?
                           I link to the Washington Post. Do you consider that to be a sematic source? If not why?
                           I link to the BBC.
                           Those twitter feeds that you dismiss are from analysts from RT and CNN.

                           You are the one misrepresenting things here. Not me.

                          "The oppressors most powerful weapon is the mind of the oppressed." - Stephen Biko

                          by gjohnsit on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 10:59:54 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  easy (0+ / 0-)

                            The end of your diary.

                            Some here and elsewhere still deny that its a coup. I'm curious how else you can describe this.
                            Pretty clear. So is the title.

                            Again, I don't know why you brought semantics into this, but as I said, the credible sources you linked use much more careful language than you do. I wonder why. Likewise, you cited a report by the herald sun about unconfirmed reports as if those unconfirmed reports were themselves an official news source. The paper says they're unconfirmed, you say they're "official news." That's dishonest. You linked to the BBC and promptly discounted their take because it didn't agree with yours, which is my whole point.

                          •  Fail (0+ / 0-)
                            Some here and elsewhere still deny that its a coup.
                            What is is clear is that I was saying that some people don't believe it to be a coup.
                             full stop.
                            If this is your proof then you have failed. And failed in a very big way.

                             We are going by your rules here, so I'm not going to let you slide. You said "They are all much more careful to use qualifying terms like "the markings of" and so on."
                              Thus you have put yourself in a position where there can be no doubt about what I said. You haven't done that.

                            "The oppressors most powerful weapon is the mind of the oppressed." - Stephen Biko

                            by gjohnsit on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 11:15:16 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  i found a bunch of quotes (0+ / 0-)

                            check them out. But yeah, the implication of "some still deny" is obvious. And it wasn't "full stop," it continued with a bit about how you can't think of another way to describe this. Which, yeah, is you saying it's a coup. And with Breaking: coup in Iraq, that's beyond implication and just a clear statement.

                          •  Wrong (0+ / 0-)

                            Implications aren't a quote.

                            If they were then the newspapers articles where, for instance, the WashingtonPost said "In actions that had all the markings of a political coup" wouldn't make my diary "stupid speculation" as you called it.

                              You've tried to create a double-standard. One lower level for you, and a much higher one for me.
                              I'm not going to let you do that. Especially not after yoiu got so unnecessarily nasty.

                            "The oppressors most powerful weapon is the mind of the oppressed." - Stephen Biko

                            by gjohnsit on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 11:26:31 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  i don't think i'm being nasty (0+ / 0-)

                            you plainly said unconfirmed reports were "official news." That's BS, and I'm calling you on it. Sorry if it hurt your feelings.

                            Anyway, quotes contain implications, and here they are very obvious. But you're right, I don't need them! You made plenty of declarative statements about there being a coup. Can you explain to me what you think the statement:

                            Breaking: coup in Iraq
                            means? Am I wrong for taking it to mean there's been a coup in Iraq?
                          •  Really? (0+ / 0-)

                            Calling me a fool and saying I was posting "stupid speculation" isn't being nasty to you?
                              In that case I'm sure you make all sorts of friends at parties.

                            you plainly said unconfirmed reports were "official news." That's BS, and I'm calling you on it.
                             What part of this link is unconfirmed and isn't official news? Go ahead. I'll wait

                            "The oppressors most powerful weapon is the mind of the oppressed." - Stephen Biko

                            by gjohnsit on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 11:33:44 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  here is the original quote I objected to (0+ / 0-)
                            how many official news sources need to say things like "all the markings of a political coup" and "an apparent coup" and "full-fledged coup" before it becomes "fact based" in your mind and stops being "rumors"?
                            When I went to check the quotes, I found this:
                            UNCONFIRMED reports suggest troops loyal to controversial Iraqi PM Nuri al-Maliki have sealed off Baghdad’s “Green Zone” in an apparent coup.
                            You plainly passed off "unconfirmed reports" as the statement of an official news source. They aren't. Yeah, that's dishonest, and you can't admit it.
                          •  Fail again (0+ / 0-)
                            You plainly passed off "unconfirmed reports" as the statement of an official news source. They aren't.
                            What "they"? What "reports"?
                            I listed one news article where I boldly included the term "UNCONFIRMED reports". How can I "pass something off" as something it isn't when it is clearly labeled as what it is?
                              That like me telling you something is unconfirmed and you complaining that I said it was confirmed.
                             Yeah, that's dishonest, and you can't admit it.
                            No, it's not. It isn't anywhere close to being. In fact, its hilariously far from it.

                            "The oppressors most powerful weapon is the mind of the oppressed." - Stephen Biko

                            by gjohnsit on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 11:45:05 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  again, here is the misrepresntation: (0+ / 0-)
                            how many official news sources need to say things like "all the markings of a political coup" and "an apparent coup" and "full-fledged coup" before it becomes "fact based" in your mind and stops being "rumors"?
                            An official news source didn't say it was an apparent coup. They reported on unconfirmed reports saying that. Big difference. A real journalist wouldn't get that wrong, and that's why you can't find any "official news source" who agrees with:
                            BREAKING: coup in Iraq
                            what does that title mean to, you btw? Something other than that there's been a coup in Iraq? Fascinating.
                          •  I get it now (0+ / 0-)
                            An official news source didn't say it was an apparent coup. They reported on unconfirmed reports saying that. Big difference.
                            You have trouble with reading comprehension. You have trouble reading things that aren't completely and totally spelled out to you ahead of time. And it seems that you've never read a newspaper before either.

                             If I knew this was the case then I wouldn't have gotten upset when you insulted me and called me names.

                            My bad.

                            "The oppressors most powerful weapon is the mind of the oppressed." - Stephen Biko

                            by gjohnsit on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 11:53:22 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  too funny (0+ / 0-)

                            In this conversation, first you said you never said it was a coup. I quoted you many times, saying it was a coup through implication and directly. For some reason, you responded that comments were out of bounds (goalpost shifting).

                            I point out that you're misrepresenting your sources by passing off unconfirmed reports as being statements of official news sources. Apparently, you have no response other than to insult me.

                            None of your credible sources say it was a coup. Only you. You know best, I guess.

                            Let me know if you ever get around to admitting what

                            BREAKING: coup in Iraq
                            means! An analysis of the title would be a great first reading comprehension lesson for me, I think.
                          •  I'm going to spell this one out for you (0+ / 0-)

                            but only once because you obviously aren't interested in new information anyway.

                            I point out that you're misrepresenting your sources by passing off unconfirmed reports as being statements of official news sources.
                            Unconfirmed reports, if openly labeled as such, ARE official reports from a news source by definition.
                              That you don't seem to understand that is not my problem. That you won't listen to this only means that you are setting yourself up to look like a fool in the future.
                              I personally don't care.

                             And by the way, those "unconfirmed reports" were in fact confirmed by other sources in my diary just hours later.
                              That the reports were in fact confirmed, and that you don't care, only means that the actual facts of what is going on is not your objective.

                             Goodbye now. I'm sure we'll meet again.

                            "The oppressors most powerful weapon is the mind of the oppressed." - Stephen Biko

                            by gjohnsit on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 10:16:45 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  except you labeled them as OFFICIAL NEWS (0+ / 0-)

                            sources.

                            how many official news sources need to say things like "all the markings of a political coup" and "an apparent coup" and "full-fledged coup" before it becomes "fact based" in your mind and stops being "rumors"?
                            It's pretty obvious. Once again, an official news source didn't say it was an apparent coup. You said it did. That's misrepresenting your sources.
                          •  here, too (0+ / 0-)
                            And then Maliki has turned to brute force to retain power, with nobody watching his back.
                            No, he hasn't. If he does, that will be a coup.
                          •  Still no mention of a coup (0+ / 0-)

                            You made the rules. Now play by them.

                            Fail

                            "The oppressors most powerful weapon is the mind of the oppressed." - Stephen Biko

                            by gjohnsit on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 11:16:27 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  maliki turning to brute force to retain power (0+ / 0-)

                            is a coup. You said he did. He hasn't. Quit lying.

                          •  Wrong again (0+ / 0-)
                            maliki turning to brute force to retain power is a coup.
                            No, it's not. That's an interpretation of your own.
                              If interpretations counted then my quote of the WasingtonPost article that said "In actions that had all the markings of a political coup" would mean that my diary wasn't "stupid speculation" as you put it.

                             I'm playing by your rules. You want to change the rules.

                            Fail again

                            "The oppressors most powerful weapon is the mind of the oppressed." - Stephen Biko

                            by gjohnsit on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 11:30:26 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  not an interpretation, that's the definition n/t (0+ / 0-)
                          •  more (0+ / 0-)
                            That sounds like a coup to me
                            This coup is against other Shias
                          •  Those were comments, not in the diary (0+ / 0-)

                            Fail again

                            "The oppressors most powerful weapon is the mind of the oppressed." - Stephen Biko

                            by gjohnsit on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 11:15:56 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  what does that matter? (0+ / 0-)

                            Now you admit, in comments, you've said there was a coup? This conversation began with my comment about you misrepresenting your sources in a comment. But now comments are out of bounds? It's very silly. You've misrepresented your sources. None of them say a coup has occurred. You do.

                          •  Liar (0+ / 0-)
                            This conversation began with my comment about you misrepresenting your sources in a comment.
                            This started when you accused me of misrepresenting the sources in my diary.

                            Fail again

                            "The oppressors most powerful weapon is the mind of the oppressed." - Stephen Biko

                            by gjohnsit on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 11:27:57 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  yes, you did (0+ / 0-)

                            Here's what I said:

                            gjohnsit has consistently misrepresented the sources he's linking to
                            so what's all this about I have to only look at the text of the diary and not the comments? Why? It seems that you are the one making up rules as you go along.
                          •  seriously, what's with the goalpost shifting? (0+ / 0-)

                            Why are comments out of bounds? Because they undermine your position?

              •   concern nitpicking of a term/word (0+ / 0-)

                is the mainstay of this sites 'debates'. Translations to fit the talking points or spin abound in threads. I thought the selection of Bush was a RW coup. Turns out I wrong not about the coup but it was a by-partisan one.  

        •  an interesting report (5+ / 0-)
          Massoum has given the bloc a deadline of 3 p.m. local time Monday (8 a.m. Eastern time) to choose a new candidate or he would name al-Maliki to a third term, two Iraqi politicians told the Journal

          I know I know, fox news quoting the wsj but it makes it pretty clear that there's no coup. Maliki is the stated PM candidate for the winning coalition in a legitimate election. I'd say that he's worried about preventing a coup, not engaging in one.

        •  What do you understand from (5+ / 0-)

          the 's and "s used in the article?

          And how about this?

          “This attitude represents a coup on the constitution and the political process ...

          “The deliberate violation of the constitution by the president ...

          Did you notice the use of two very different terms in the same article?

          and the 'coup' and "coup"  - with the ' ' and the " "?

          But what did you choose to write?

          The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
          Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

          by InAntalya on Sun Aug 10, 2014 at 10:16:11 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  We have a crisis of credibility. (12+ / 0-)

          About what the media tells us. About what the various governments and militaries tell us. About what the public thinks. About what we think, ourselves.

          This much should be clear, by now, at least.

        •  Whasington Times? (9+ / 0-)

          I don't know how reliable the WT is but I do know they have a RW agenda. In any case I think it's a little premature to call it a coup. In a couple of the main Spanish papers that I have checked there are not even a mention of this in its front pages.The Guardian has a link to this story from their front page but they are not calling it a coup. Anyhow, there's a lot happening in Iraq right now but we would all be well served by not jumping into conclusions, not yet.

          "The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie -- deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -John F. Kennedy

          by basquebob on Sun Aug 10, 2014 at 10:25:41 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Um. What Maliki describes isn't a coup. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          HarryTurtledove

          He was speaking hyperbolically to get attention.  Anyone can see that from your block quote.

          Someone actually admitted on DK, "Yes. If it pisses you and the other Greenwald-Tweet-pearl-clutchers off, it's smart." Wow. Just....wow.

          by Inland on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 05:54:54 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Mistranslation, maybe? (0+ / 0-)

          Mistranslation, maybe?

        •  please... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Susan G in MN

          you already posted one of the more embarrassing shark-jumping diaries I've read on this site later, no need to dig in further...

  •  Recent stories...? (5+ / 0-)
    Maliki Deploys Tanks in Baghdad

    Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki deployed troops and tanks on the streets of Baghdad as he resists U.S. President Barack Obama’s push for a more inclusive Iraqi government.

    Iraqi soldiers, security forces and tanks poured into Baghdad yesterday, many concentrated around the Green Zone, where government buildings and the U.S. embassy are located, CNN reported. The move came after the parliament adjourned until Aug. 19 without designating a prime-minister candidate after inconclusive elections in April. http://www.bloomberg.com/...

    BAGHDAD — Special forces teams and army tanks surrounded the Green Zone housing Iraq’s government as Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki fiercely clung to power Sunday, taking the stability of the country to the brink at a moment when it is already facing a lethal challenge from radical Islamist fighters.
    In actions that had all the markings of a political coup, Maliki gave a defiant late-night speech in Baghdad saying he would lodge a legal case against the country’s president, who has resisted naming him as the candidate for another term as prime minister.

    Tanks rumbled onto major bridges and roads in the capital as security forces were put on high alert, with militiamen also patrolling Shiite neighborhoods. The special forces teams surrounding the Green Zone were taking orders directly from the prime minister, security officials said.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/...

    "Lets show the rascals what Citizens United really means."

    by smiley7 on Sun Aug 10, 2014 at 09:34:41 PM PDT

  •  A coup as in Maliki's special ops troops at key (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    environmentalist

    locations? It looks more like a coup by Maliki. The idea that a new weak Kurdish President is launching a coup in Shiite Baghdad is silly.
    One reason for Kurdish setback has been Maliki holdng back military supplies.
    A politician blaming his opponents for doing exactly what he is doing is what politicians often do in a dangerous situation.
    It would suit Iranian goals if IS drove back the secular Kurds, overextending the IS military. The Kurds don't want to fight in the plains only for their mountains.

  •  More DKOS drama. The world is coming to an end!... (7+ / 0-)

    More DKOS drama. The world is coming to an end! Obama is the devil! Obama is the best! Genocide! Republicans, ahhh!! Coup by Wall Street! Blah. Blah.

    Thank you for the sane perspective.

  •  Trying to remember (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    InAntalya, native, grover, Don midwest

    how the 2010 mess worked, I found this:

    A U.S.-proposed power-sharing plan between the two men, which would have limited Maliki's power as prime minister and created a new federal position for Allawi, is all but dead.

    Still struggling to form government, Iraq breaks a world record, WaPo

    No, no, the idea of a power sharing plan, with the U.S. cooking up a new government slot for another country, which the second place finisher gets, is not dead.

    We just put it in a box and shipped it to Afghanistan.

  •  The only other place I saw the suggestion (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    InAntalya, kalmoth, Susan G in MN

    of a coup was in a headline at Huffington Post.

    Which is where one would expect to see it.

  •  Humm/ (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    k9disc, aitchdee

    Latest Headlines:http://www.reuters.com/...

    Iraqi Shi'ite coalition close to nominating prime minister

    A bloc comprising Iraq's biggest Shi'ite parties is close to nominating a prime minister, the deputy speaker of parliament said on Monday, directly challenging Nuri al-Maliki who has refused to give up his bid for a third term.

    Haider al-Abadi's comments in a tweet came after police sources said special forces and Shi'ite militias loyal to Maliki had been deployed in strategic areas of Baghdad after he made a defiant speech on television suggesting he would not cave in to pressure to drop his bid for another term.

    Abadi is one of the people that has been mentioned as a possible successor to Maliki. In his tweet Abadi said government forces were moving around the capital in anticipation of security breaches.

    "Lets show the rascals what Citizens United really means."

    by smiley7 on Sun Aug 10, 2014 at 11:55:55 PM PDT

    •  This is about the 15th person the media (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      gerald 1969, PeteZerria

      has claimed to be being close to being nominated. Maybe one day someone will be.

      Until someone else is nominated and gets a vote of confidence Maliki is the PM.

      The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
      Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

      by InAntalya on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 02:05:53 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  thank you (4+ / 0-)

    its a DKos coup. New feature of the citizen-served news age. One has to be wary. Gotta work, good day to all

  •  Thank you. n/t (5+ / 0-)

    "If you're in a coalition and you're comfortable, you know it's not a broad enough coalition." Dr. Bernice Johnson Reagon

    by Denise Oliver Velez on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 03:10:49 AM PDT

  •  Actually, the go-to person in all things Iraq and (7+ / 0-)

    the ME in general is the incomparable

    Juan Cole.

    Juan Ricardo Cole is a public intellectual, prominent blogger and essayist, and the Richard P. Mitchell Collegiate Professor of History at the University of Michigan.
    Bios here -->(long)
    and here --> (shorter bio)

    He was a must-read blogger during the build-up leading to the war and throughout the war. He has recently upgraded his website to be able to cover more news and include more writers.

    His take:

    Juan Cole's blog


    Iraq: Is al-Maliki Preparing to Make a Coup?
    Nouri al-Maliki, who is seeking a third term as prime minister of Iraq in the teeth of widespread opposition, abruptly began acting like a strongman on Sunday night. He went on television to denounce President Fuad Masoum for not having appointed a prime minister yet, even though Sunday was the constitutional deadline for him to do so...
    He writes his own articles and doesn't have to depend on Western news reports for analysis: his sources are often only available in Arabic, not to mention his many personal contacts on the ground. He is a scholar and multi-lingual, and knows the ME extremely well, so I would believe him before I would trust the impressions some dude on an American blog (this is a general principle of mine, and not meant to apply to anyone in particular). DK is a great place with many interesting and often educated points of view, but I doubt anyone here is a true Middle East / Arabic language and culture expert of the same calibre Juan Cole is.

    „Wer kämpft, kann verlieren. Wer nicht kämpft, hat schon verloren.“ - Bertolt Brecht

    by translatorpro on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 03:15:05 AM PDT

    •  But Juan Cole often leaves things out of what (5+ / 0-)

      he writes to make his commentary more acceptable to US audiences.

      For example in the commentary you link to there is no mention of the Iraqi president's calling on Iraqi parties to cooperate and come up with a new candidate  for PM and their inability to do so.

      He just writes:

      President Masoum seems convinced that he should not appoint al-Maliki to a third term, given that al-Maliki has alienated the Sunnis and even some major Shiite blocs are hostile to him.

      Al-Maliki for his part appears to have calculated that now is the time to shoe-horn himself into power for another four years.

      Absolutely no mention of the inability of the parties to come up with an alternative.

      It's all Maliki's fault because he "calculated that now is the time to shoe-horn himself into power for another four years" according to Juan Cole.

      Bullshit selective reporting.

      The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
      Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

      by InAntalya on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 03:29:08 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It's good that you are completing the (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        AnnetteK, lunachickie, gjohnsit

        picture. Thanks for that. What I don't think is good is attributing motives to Cole's style. You are really not in a position to do that, and should avoid it. Critique the content, fine, but trying to mind-read the author diminishes your credibility. And Juan Cole was essentially the only voice of reason and sanity we lefties had - besides each other - who wrote with some kind of authority and confirmed a lot the suspicions leading up to and during the Iraq War. I don't think his opinion should be ignored in any discussions related to Iraq, it's even better to have a fact-checker like you around for a more complete picture.

        „Wer kämpft, kann verlieren. Wer nicht kämpft, hat schon verloren.“ - Bertolt Brecht

        by translatorpro on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 03:50:12 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You have no idea of the history between Cole (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          gerald 1969, native

          and myself regarding Syria.

          but trying to mind-read the author diminishes your credibility
          He does good work but sometimes he messes up and/or edits himself to be more acceptable to the US audience.

          The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
          Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

          by InAntalya on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 03:56:32 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  If it is a personal thing between (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            lunachickie, Don midwest, gjohnsit

            you and him, it's even more important to leave that outside and let the readers  come to their own conclusions. He has credentials I tend to trust, and I know nothing about you except that you are raising goats in the wilds of Antalya and took in a Syrian family. Very laudable, but that's all of the facts I know about you, and they are unusual to say the least.

            „Wer kämpft, kann verlieren. Wer nicht kämpft, hat schon verloren.“ - Bertolt Brecht

            by translatorpro on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 04:47:05 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  You trust Cole because he has a blog (3+ / 0-)

              and you don't trust me because I raise goats.

              hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

              The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
              Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

              by InAntalya on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 04:53:02 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  If that is the conclusion you come to (4+ / 0-)

                based on my statements, then you are even less interesting and thoughtful than I first thought. You are taking my criticism personally, and have started saying very silly things out of defensiveness. Don't worry, I won't be visiting your diaries any time again any time soon, unless there are goat pics in them. I have pretty much lost any interest I may have had in anything you have to say. You only damage yourself with ridiculous remarks.

                „Wer kämpft, kann verlieren. Wer nicht kämpft, hat schon verloren.“ - Bertolt Brecht

                by translatorpro on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 05:12:16 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Did you get your feelings hurt? (0+ / 0-)

                  Too bad.

                  Boohoo.

                  And when you write your 9th diary (8 diaries in 6 years is your record) get back to me on the subject of who is and who isn't interesting.

                  The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
                  Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

                  by InAntalya on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 05:18:01 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Keep digging. (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Don midwest, DocGonzo, gjohnsit

                    I am not competing with you or anyone on anything on this big, anonymous blog, and I couldn't care less about who has more diaries. What's more, I have no idea why you would think that means anything to me. What's next - that your dick is bigger than mine? (purely figuratively speaking, of course)

                    Unfortunately, your obvious problem with my taking Juan Cole's views seriously - and you have interpreted that as personally insulting to you, it seems - has really clouded your judgement and shown a petty, vindictive side of you, while I remained civil throughout. With that I'm leaving this diary as I have had enough of this, plus I have work that needs doing.

                    „Wer kämpft, kann verlieren. Wer nicht kämpft, hat schon verloren.“ - Bertolt Brecht

                    by translatorpro on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 06:27:46 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  your comment about the goats (5+ / 0-)

                      and comparing that to Juan Cole's credentials is an obvious insult. No need to go there. While telling InAtalya to let readers decide on the merits of the discussion, and not make it personal, you make it personal by bringing up his/her personal history.

                      •  You are wrong about that. (0+ / 0-)

                        Look up InAntalya's bio info in his/her profile - see what it says there? Nothing. Everything anyone needs to know about me is in my profile. In three words. I don't spend much time here (I think my history makes that obvious), so that comment was absolutely true with no value judgement attached. How you interpreted it is on you, not me. Hell, if I had a choice, I'd probably be raising goats in Antalya myself. It sounds wonderful. I do, however, know quite a bit about Mr. Cole, have read lots of his work, and he has extensive biographies online, ergo, I know a lot more about him, which is probably true for anyone here who has ever read him. I take his opinions seriously. I had no clue that the diarist has a personal beef with Mr. Cole, and my praise of him got IA more and more upset as the exchange evolved. Those are the facts. Period.

                        „Wer kämpft, kann verlieren. Wer nicht kämpft, hat schon verloren.“ - Bertolt Brecht

                        by translatorpro on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 09:57:12 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                •  When one is reporting actual facts (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  translatorpro

                  one doesn't let criticism put them on the defensive. Their facts should speak for themselves and the writer should know it.

                  Yet criticism has undone our diarist rather handily here. How telling.
                   

                  "Counting on people having nowhere else to go is the logic of a slumlord."--Wolf10

                  by lunachickie on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 06:27:19 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  Don't (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                InAntalya

                Let them get your goats! Uh oh, did that translate wrong?

            •  InAn has been thorough, and a good faith (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Don midwest

              actor on the ground in the region. I don't think it's fair to cast aspersions. On the other hand, I'm not really liking the general atmosphere of aspersion-casting anyway. Should have done what I said and gotten out a while ago, but I saw this from the WaPo and wanted more info. This seemed like a good place to get it.

              But this time I'm really gone. Lunch seems like a good idea. Later.

              A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame/Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name/Mother of Exiles.

              by SouthernLiberalinMD on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 09:09:55 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  They seem to have (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        translatorpro, aitchdee

        come up with an alternative...

        if you don't think there's a difference between the parties, then fuck you and go away. This site is for people fighting to make a change, not for delusional assholes. Kos

        by AnnetteK on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 04:12:34 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  If this is a broadbased alliance and if he has (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Onomastic, gerald 1969

          been nominated by it the Iraqi president may call on him to form a government.

          The Iraqi president has said he will only call on a candidate to form a government if there is a broadbased coalition behind the candidate - as required by the constitution.

          So far Maliki has had the largest coalition, which is why he says he should have been appointed by the presidient.

          Also, al-Abadi is a deputy of Maliki.

          The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
          Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

          by InAntalya on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 04:28:05 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  It looks like it might be resolved legally (0+ / 0-)

        and not militarily. Of course, I'm relying on WaPo for that info, so, WTF do I know.

        A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame/Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name/Mother of Exiles.

        by SouthernLiberalinMD on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 09:07:07 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Even Juan Cole... (4+ / 0-)

      puts a question mark after the word coup. gjohnsit did not. Trivial? I don't think so. Its the title of his diary and the premise of his whole diary.

      Thats the risk with "breaking news" which makes it to the top of the rec list. Its often off-based and sometimes plain wrong. And, I think it makes the site look bad.

      KOS: "Mocking partisans focusing on elections? Even less reason to be on Daily Kos."

      by fcvaguy on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 03:55:41 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Pop the holes in it then. (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        lunachickie, native, Garrett, gjohnsit

        Seriously. Tear it down and deliver the truth.

        I think it was a rather questioning diary, despite the declarative title. The author laid out evidence, made his or her case.

        Personally, I found it compelling. Any time a head of state goes rogue and then chokes down the capitol with heavy weapons, there's a good chance of it being a coup.

        There is nothing wrong with gj's rec-listed diary. It's speculation, and it's rather compelling.

        If it's wrong, it's up to this community to right it. So pop it full of holes and take it off the list.

        You guys with your 'reputation of this site' crap really crack me up. Anything real important will be disowned by the Establishment and relegated to the realm of the 'retarded'. We, this site, will never have 'credibility' on issues that will shake up the Establishment.

        Democracy - 1 person 1 vote. Free Markets - More dollars more power.

        by k9disc on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 04:25:50 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Two questions: (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          k9disc, gerald 1969

          Who is this head of state who has gone rogue?

          And how has he 'gone rogue'?

          The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
          Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

          by InAntalya on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 04:36:06 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Maliki - and he apparently freaked out on (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            lunachickie, gjohnsit

            parliament and then called in heavy weapons around his offices and doesn't want to leave office.

            Democracy - 1 person 1 vote. Free Markets - More dollars more power.

            by k9disc on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 04:52:49 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Do you understand anything about the (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              k9disc

              parliamentary system of government?

              It seems you don't.

              Maliki is not refusing to leave office.

              He is PM and will continue to be PM until a new PM is chosen by the parliament.

              If the parliament can't get their act together that's not Maliki's fault.

              The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
              Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

              by InAntalya on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 04:57:51 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Yes, I do, perhaps not as much as you. (0+ / 0-)

                I was under the impression that parliament was moving against him, or supporting someone else.

                Democracy - 1 person 1 vote. Free Markets - More dollars more power.

                by k9disc on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 05:02:39 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  No, if they were, he would have been replaced (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  k9disc

                  already.

                  The parliament, as I wrote above, may not like Maliki but they can't agree on anyone to replace him.

                  So far they dislike the candidates who have been proposed to replace him more than they dislike Maliki.

                  The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
                  Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

                  by InAntalya on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 05:09:42 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

        •  i believe this diary does that (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          k9disc
          Pop the holes in it then.
          The truth is, even up to this morning, we don't know all the facts or in fact if there is indeed a coup. As it is, none of the press this morning is reporting a "coup".

          KOS: "Mocking partisans focusing on elections? Even less reason to be on Daily Kos."

          by fcvaguy on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 06:36:53 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Rec'ed and tipped (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Onomastic

    Hopefully this will overtake the BS diary currently on top of the rec list.

    We sure get a lot of odd disinformation diaries here.

  •  sloppy work by gjohnsit (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Onomastic

    they're usually better than that.

    Dawkins is to atheism as Rand is to personal responsibility. Russia Today=FoxNews, Seralini=Wakefield. yadda yadda.

    by terrypinder on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 04:33:35 AM PDT

  •  Wow, Iraq and Canada have something... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    InAntalya

    ...in common!  I think Maliki has Stephen Harper envy.

    It's not the side effects of the cocaine/I'm thinking that it must be love

    by Rich in PA on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 05:12:54 AM PDT

  •  what are your thoughts (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    InAntalya

    on ISil operations in Jalalwa, nearer to Baghdad (and Iran).  Supposedly defended by Kurd forces?  Is the operation further north a strategy to draw forces away from Baghdad?

    •  'IS' has been trying to take Jalalwa, (0+ / 0-)

      and hold it for at least five weeks.

      But I think this is more local Sunni tribes/Baathists than IS - a local battle more than a part of the current IS offensive in nothern Iraq.

      If IS is trying to draw forces away from Baghdad - which is a tactic they have used in the past - they have failed because the Iraqi government has learned from the Syrian military's experience during the past three years.

      The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
      Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

      by InAntalya on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 05:29:00 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  In other news (0+ / 0-)

        There are reports in Israeli press  of another maritime relief convoy from Turkey to Gaza.  Are you hearing anything?

        •  Not much. (0+ / 0-)

          There's a meeting to discuss the possibility of a flotilla going on yesterday and today.

          And a press conference is scheduled for tomorrow.

          If one happens it would probably take many months to organize.

          The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
          Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

          by InAntalya on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 05:41:02 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  New Prime Minister is Appointed (5+ / 0-)
    Iraq’s president named prominent Shiite politician Haider al-Abadi as the country’s new prime minister Monday, dislodging incumbent Nouri al-Maliki after eight years in office despite a show of force as he clung to power.

    President Fouad Massoum called on Abadi, a member of Maliki’s ruling party and currently the deputy speaker of parliament, to form a new government.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/...

    "We are beyond law, which is not unusual for an empire; unfortunately, we are also beyond common sense." Gore Vidal

    by Superpole on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 06:51:43 AM PDT

  •  Thanks for this diary InAntalya (3+ / 0-)

    I was shocked by the assumptions made in the other diary, especially by the allegations that what was happening in Iraq was analogous to what happened to the Diem brothers in Vietnam.  A Coup d'etat is generally considered to be a sudden seizure of a government by a small group of usurpers (often a group within the military) by force, an extra-constitutional (hence illegal) action.  Wikipedia article has historical examples of Coup d'etats. WHat is happening in Iraq right now may be a Constitutional crisis.  Maliki may be positioning his loyalists within the military to maintain power into a 3rd term, but what is happening there is not analogous to the Coup d'etat that overthrew Diem's government in Vietnam with the tacit approval of the U.S.  

    The speculation in that other diary is monumental and I am glad that you published a perspective and analysis grounded in facts.  

    How can Republicans say they love America when they hate Americans so very much?

    by Tchrldy on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 07:07:01 AM PDT

  •  "political coup" (0+ / 0-)

    is happening in Iraq. just because the classic military coup isn't happening, doesn't mean it isn't a coup.

    Widely accused of a partisan obstinacy that has fueled the communal violence tearing Iraq apart, the Shi'ite Muslim premier went on television late on Sunday to denounce the ethnic Kurdish president for delaying the constitutional process of naming him prime minister following a parliamentary election in late April.

    But fellow Shi'ites nominated Haider al-Abadi, a long-time Maliki ally, in his place as the struggle for the premiership descended into judicial wrangling and a power play on the streets of the beleaguered capital, where militias and special forces seen as loyal to Maliki took up strategic positions.

    http://www.reuters.com/...

  •  Part of a dialogue (0+ / 0-)

    at Pat Lang's Sic Semper Tyrannus site:

    Lang:  The US hand in this was that we were
               trying to get a new PM in Baghdad.

    CP:      As in the US pushing Maliki to resign,
               which weakened his position internally
               and prompted others to make their
               moves?

               Or: as in asking people to actively give
               him the boot?

               Or: Both?

    Lang:   Both.

    http://turcopolier.typepad.com/...

  •  There's such a thing as a "self-coup" (0+ / 0-)

    where the leader overthrows his own government in order to strengthen his personal rule.  Wojciech Jaruzelski in Poland, December 1981, was the classic example of the "self-coup".

    “A really efficient totalitarian state would be one in which the all-powerful executive of political bosses and their army of managers control a population of slaves who do not have to be coerced, because they love their servitude.” —Aldous Huxley

    by ActivistGuy on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 07:58:16 AM PDT

  •  Please update your diary... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Timaeus, smiley7, grover

    http://www.bbc.com/...

    New PM appointed in Iraq.

  •  I'd like to know (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    smiley7

    from InAnt, or someone else who is more expert than me on this:

    Who is Abadi? And should I be worried?

    Every time my government starts using words like "democracy" in re: the Middle East I get worried.

    A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame/Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name/Mother of Exiles.

    by SouthernLiberalinMD on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 09:04:20 AM PDT

    •  Some info here, though I'm no expert, just a (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SouthernLiberalinMD

      journalist.
      http://www.dailykos.com/...

      And i must respond to my research being called BS in this diary, especially when I beat the print media by about fifteen
      minutes this morning reporting that a new PM has been nominated, which I predicted in the early hours this morning.

      "Lets show the rascals what Citizens United really means."

      by smiley7 on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 09:24:34 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I hate it when good people fight. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        smiley7

        Especially under the current political conditions, in which the locusts and predators among us seem to hold sway almost everywhere.

        I'm fairly thick-skinned, but it's putting a serious lump in my throat. If the people who value truth start attacking each other, what hope do we have?

        A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame/Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name/Mother of Exiles.

        by SouthernLiberalinMD on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 09:36:59 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Thanks. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        smiley7

        This is somewhat heartening:

        In 2003, Al-Abadi became sceptical of the Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA) privatization plan, proposing to Paul Bremer that they had to wait for a legitimate government to be formed. In October 2003, Al-Abadi with all 25 of the Governing Council interim ministers protested to Paul Bremer and rejected the CPA's demand to privatize the state-owned companies and infrastructure prior to forming a legitimate government. The CPA, led by Bremer, fell out with Al-Abadi and the Governing Council. The CPA worked around the Governing Council, forming a new government that remained beholden to the CPA until general elections had been completed, prompting more aggressive armed resistance by Iraqis against U.S. led coalition personnel
        Although if he pissed in USGov's Wheaties in '03, I'm not sure why they're in favor of him now--maybe Obama and Kerry gaining some ground on the neocons who still hold way too much power, official and unofficial, in American politics?

        A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame/Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name/Mother of Exiles.

        by SouthernLiberalinMD on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 09:41:08 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  And here's an example of your 'journalism' (0+ / 0-)
        Iraq’s new prime minister has called on Iraqis to unite against the “barbaric” campaign waged by Islamic State militants.
        Is he already the Prime Minister?

        Wow, you are fast. I wonder how many days/weeks you beat other media by.

        The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
        Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

        by InAntalya on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 09:48:37 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  WOW, just wow... (0+ / 0-)

          InAntalya, you called bullshit on my links to Wapo in the early hours, est, this morning and you doubted that a new PM nomination was in the works as I predicted as well. You were wrong on both counts so I'd appreciate your
          taking the advice you have given others in your non-sourced diary and not fly off the hook during your first cup of coffee, gather info first.

          PS: Most of us are aware of the parliamentary system and apparently he has enough MP's to form a government.

          Please don't blow spoke, I work hard to be accurate and the quote above is what the PM nominee said.

          "Lets show the rascals what Citizens United really means."

          by smiley7 on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 09:53:00 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  And again. (0+ / 0-)

            Can you read?

            Iraq’s new prime minister has called ...
            the quote above is what the PM nominee said.
            Try to get your story straight. Which is it?

            The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
            Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

            by InAntalya on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 10:03:37 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  PS: (0+ / 0-)

            Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 09:55 AM EDT
            New PM nominated in Iraq/Kerry warns PM Nuri al-Maliki not to interfere

            As evidenced above i posted the diary at 9:55 am, I waited for a credible source to confirm and that was NPR which beat the print media as I did, the WP being the first in print I saw about 10:15

             I've all the wires open as well as social media and I was very pleased to have Dkos on top of a breaking story.

            Thanks

            "Lets show the rascals what Citizens United really means."

            by smiley7 on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 10:06:40 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site